doesn't making him not care about anyone kind of ruin the

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>>54561099
The Emperor operates on an entirely different level from mortals. You cannot possibly comprehend his reasons for trying to help humanity.

Because he's only interested in power. He's a hivemind made up of ancient chieftains who wished to calm the Warp so as to safeguard their souls. The Warp would eventually become so unstable that their reincarnation abilities would no longer work. As soon as they died, their souls would be consumed by demons. To prevent this, they pooled their souls together to create the Emperor, and embarked on a mission to destroy Chaos and calm the Warp. They fear death above all else, and their apotheosis was planned. They purposely engineered the Horus Heresy in order to facilitate this. This is why they did nothing to stop Horus or the Primarchs from falling when they could have.

>>54561099
The Emperor has always cared about Humanity but not humans. He wants the whole race to improve and have a future where they rule supreme above everything and he will sacrifice as many people as it takes in order to get there.

He has always been an inhuman monster of a god for humanity, he sheds a tear for heroes that die in the name of His dream but not for the billions that are grinded to dust daily in his most terrible regime.

>>54561099
>the other gods seem to care at least a little about their followers

This is wrong.

>>54561209
the deceiver destroyed an entire race for not being as cool as the necrons

>>54561099
His goal is the continuation of the human race. If he can destroy half of humanity to ensure the survival of the other half, he'd do it in the blink of an eye. He's only ever wanted the best for mankind.

Also, the other gods don't care about their followers, except Nurgle.

>>54561209
Papa Nurgle loves me.

>>54561266
>>54561209
isha likes the eldar

>>54561283
Extends even beyond eldar to include 'mortal races'.

>>54561209
>>54561266
Slaanesh loves me! I know this because she tentacle-fucks me nightly!

>>54561209
What about gork and mork?

>>54561099

It makes the tragedy even deeper.

The emperor always believed in Mankind, but he never believed in humans. His arrogance and disconnection from humanity blinded him to problems of the Imperium and lead directly to the Horus Hersey

I think we can concilliate the "Emperor doesn't give a fuck about individuals" and the "Emperor loves humanity".
The guy had to expunge all those feelings, put himself at the top of the Olympus just to be able to move foward. Like the other God-Emperor, he was alone in the top and knows it. If he stopped to care about individuals he would go mad with the grief and remorse, the loss and all. So, what you do when you're basically the only one person in the whole universe who is functionally immortal and with hability to see far beyond anyone else knowing that the universe is filled with homidical abominations of all kinds and forms?
You harden your heart, you put everyone else out, you reduce people to numbers and tools, you create tube born people and address them by the numbers. You can't relate to them for real for a minute, else you would fail and everything, everyone, everything you saw, lived for, created, suffered, sacrificed would be gone. Poof! Cosmic dust!
Now, add to that 10k years in a torture chair, you being slowly turned into a god-like being away from any material sensation, directly dealing with god-like incorporeal beings, which are totally alien to humanity, uncapable to be anything else beyond their own murderous monomanical natures. Add to all the emotional charge you receive from trillions of people calling your name, claiming for your protection. Now you can feel them, hear them, the same way you can feel the countless people sacrificed to sustain your body.
You can't barely remember what's to be human, to be frail, to have feelings. Your mind is totally taken to keep the doors of hell closed, to focus all that psychic might to allow people to cross the stars and have a chance to survive. You can't even be sure that you're a single will and being anymore, more than ever you mind is getting ripping apart into a trillion pieces.
Yet you endure. the core of the being you were remembers the reason for all of this.

Because grimdark

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>>54561838
This. They're the only gods who give a fuck about their people.

>>54563432
Besides nurgle and isha?

And maybe a c'tan?

>>54561099

He never cared about individual humans. Nothing has changed. He was an ends meet the goal kind of guy. He's not going to risk the fate of humanity for one snowflake. Hell, he'll fucking shove humans into blenders for thousands of years if that's what it takes to force them to evolve and become dominant. In fact, that's LITERALLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW with the psyker sacrifices.

The fuck is with this "waaah waaah the Emperor isn't a bleeding heart liberal" bullshit. We've known for years he wasn't a nice man and you've all bitched for years too about how he was a "bad father".

>>54561283
Based qt xenos MILF goddess

All the non-Chaos races need to band together to rescue her ASAP

>>54561099
No, it fits with the point.

People in 40k worship a lie. The Emperor was not benevolent and didn't love you.

Emperor cares about humanity, not individual humans. This is what it is to be a true leader.

>>54561200
T. ADB

>>54563557
Well he loved "you", not you.

He loves humanity, not humans.

I guess having a super intellect and having a large perspective is detrimental to interacting with other people.

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>>54561283
Not just the Eldar. Do remember that every time Nurgle concocts a new disease or plague to devastate the galaxy/universe, she's the one that whispers the cures for his infections into the minds of *all* mortal races. She is pretty much the most benevolent of all of 40ks God's.

Can't wait to see things ten years from now, when the pendulum has swung around yet again and chaosfags are bitching about how the Emperor is 'too nice'.

>>54565085
That will never happen, black library will never accept a religious figure that is nice.

>>54561099
But you missed the total point, the Emperor DOES care! But he cares about the species as a whole, thus he doesn't have the time to waste on individual members of said species.

Honestly the way /tg/ whines about the Emperor 'not loving his sons enough' is hilarious cause it mirrors who whiny Horus and Guilliman are. They don't get that the Emperor isn't so petty to care about one member of the species over its collective fate.

>>54561283
To be fair Asuryan likes the Eldar too. The Phoenix Lord novels reveal he's sending his dreams forward into the future, since he foresaw his death, to guide them from beyond the Grave.

Isha actually recently even had some plot role. In Hand of Darkness Yvrainne goes on a spiritual quest and ends up finding a 'Rose of Isha' which are only supposed to bloom where the Goddess herself has walked. This Rose then safely lets Yvrainne enter the Garden of Nurgle and take the Hand of Darkness.

Seems Isha is getting more proactive in helping her kids again. Who knows, we might see Isha joining the resurgent Pantheon of Khaine, Cegorach and Ynnead eventually.

Cucks with daddy issues wanted an edgy incompetent autistic moron that gives the main antagonist its greatest assets in real space(Chaos Space Marines) through easily avoidable means instead of a benevolent exemplar of humanity.

>>54563517
>>54566534
>Autists missing the point

The problem isn't that he's not a nice man, the problem is that his thought process is ass-backwards. We care about humanity because we emote with the individual members of humanity. If the Emperor does not care about individuals, WHY does he care about humanity as a whole? If he doesn't find value in our solitary lives or actions, why does he care about us as a group? What possible interest does he find in a species which he so far transcends he may as well not be a part of anymore?

>>54567408
I care about my country. The idea of a nation. The idea of our collective superiority over other trashy countries out there.

I don't care about the individuals in my country. I am better than them. I am richer than them. I know better than them. I am superior.

You live in another country. You are not me. Ergo, you are inferior. If it was within my power, I would destroy you because you are taking space that rightfully belongs to me.

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>All this Gods caring or not nonsese
A farmer doesnt have to care about his crops, but its a poor one that doesnt have the sense to tend to them.

>>54566534
This only goes to show how human the Primarchs were, in that they sought approval and appreciation from their creator - they were no robots, despite what Dorn might make you think ( he got the job of Praetorian because he was the only one who was the ideal primarch in that he did everything and never asked any questions or questioned any orders.)

The Emperor, after living for thousands of years and having power to bend and shape reality, did the only thing any being in his position would do - focus on the long game. Even Primarchs couldn't match up to his vision or comprehend what he did.
You could call Emperor a sociopath or an inhuman monster, and you would be correct. A being that can look beyond personal relationships and focus on the future of trillions across the whole Galaxy cannot be human. If it were, too many things would hold him back and would make him give in to the very things the Primarchs were accusing him of, which is pride, arrogance and immense hubris.

To be able to relate themselves to him in any measurable way and to justify the things he did in their eyes, humans named him their god. For all intents and purposes, this is both apt and fitting, not to mention it resolves the question of his care for humanity as a whole as opposed to individual beings.
Really, if people did what he wanted to the letter and have not questioned him, Heresy would have not happened and more people would be alive. So he does care, but he has no time to chide or correct you if you fall of the train. Too much is going on to stop everything every time a single person falls.

>>54565085
>geedub
>ten years from now

>>54566534
He appears to care up to a certain point, actually, about individual humans and Primarchs. Nobody can give Lorgar that many second chances without some degree of care, or Magnus a chance to redeem himself (after he royally screwed fucking everything ever), or refusing to believe that Horus would betray him like that until he had overwhelming evidence, or the sheer amount of shit he puts up with from Malcador, the way he treasures the lives of his Custodians and regularly chats with them conversationally about all manner of things, or various other bits and pieces throughout.

If he has to then yeah, he's going to sacrifice them, but he does care, some more than others. He himself admits that he would not spend the lives of his Custodes if he could possibly avoid it. He is miserly with their lives, even though he knows they'd happily walk to their deaths if he commanded it.

>>54567512
He only really cared about maclador because he was the only one who came close to being like him.
Nobody knows how old maclador was, he was the 2nd most powerful human psyker and he played the long game too. Apart from him there are a few custodes but they dont understand like Maclador did, theyre just bodyguards.

>>54567512
Oh come on, Girlyman saw into the mind of the Emperor without the deception of his human mask. He saw his memories and he saw how the Emperor viewed him. The Emperor did not see him as a son, comrade, or a friend. He saw him as a tool. Something to be used and discarded.

The Emperor true self is monstrous and callous. I mean for fuck sake how many times do the Perpetuals in the HH series say that the Emperor is a total heartless bastard that they wouldn't have sided with if it weren't for the Chaos Gods being way worse. Now the knowledge of these ancients was confirmed by Girlyman.

>>54561109
Yes we can.

Amass followers and "totally not worshiper honest guiz *wink* *wink*", kill off the competition and ascend to godhood.

>>54561099
anyone know where it covers what the emps said to Roboutte when he visited the imperial palace? I want to know what was actually said between them but all I've found is some hints in the Dark Imperium novel.

I don't need it spoon-fed, just need to know what book I need to read in order I find out.

>>54567603
isnt one

ADB is a lore ruining hack, news at 11

>Emperor is a heartless monster setting everyone up in his personal game against Chaos Gods

don't you know the only reason he wanted the Webway was to get some Eldar chicks?

On a serious note, there is enough lore already established to have it both ways, not to mention the constant "everything is right, nothing is canon". Emperor is a loving caretaker of Humanity when the story/lore needs him and he is a monster with no connection to humans when you need it in the story/want grimdark. Pretty much like all the lore for the last 30 years.

I think the Emperor remains enigmatic and hard to read as much as we would like to have all the details and know all his plans (which we do). His personality and mindset is impossible to pin down, we vaguely know what he plans but there is never a clarified, definite description of his mind or identity, everything is from (biased) bystander perspective.

>>54567698
Dude, when author talk about their future plans we already know the truth.

They are redoing the final fight in HH and we will see again how much the Emperor (doesn't care) about his "sons".

>>54563619
t. Every characterization of the Emperor ever

Why are newfags so out of touch with actual 40K fluff?

>>54567718
Welp, if that happens then screw GW for allowing it.
I wonder though, how will they explain Emperor getting mortally wounded if he has no reason to hold back.

>>54567443
Yeah, and the Emperor is a pastiche of that shitty thought process.

>>54567729
I don't know, why do you pretend to know shit when you're probably under 35 years old and weren't around for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?

>>54567474
>Really, if people did what he wanted to the letter and have not questioned him, Heresy would have not happened and more people would be alive.

>If nobody rebelled against the Emperor, the greatest act of rebellion against the Emperor would never have happened

A for tautology, F for missing the point.

>>54567443
So if there was another nation which was collectively superior to yours, you would naturally join them instead?

Otherwise stop bullshitting.

>>54567549
Then why does he keep giving Lorgar second chances? Shitty tools get thrown out, and he didn't throw Lorgar out.

Why does he refer to Angron by his number, but Horus by his name? You don't talk about your tools like they have names.

Why does he casually chat so often with his Custodes, like he cares about their opinions? If they're just meatshields for him who gives a fuck what they think, just program loyalty into them and be done with it, he doesn't need to bother with elaborate deceptions and waste his time talking.

Why does he put up with Malcador and accept that much criticism from him?

If he's just pretending with psyker power to make people want to love him, why do the Sisters, who are immune to his psychic bullshit, still collectively agree with him?

And really, Rowboat's not in any mental frame of mind to have a frank conversation with Emps in 40k, and neither is the Emperor. Even though it's implied that the Emperor was the one who saved him from death back in 31k or so when Fulgrim first nearly killed him.

He doesn't care about every individual human, that's pretty clear. But he does care about some of them, up to a point. If he doesn't then it makes no sense even within the context of BL's own lore rape.

Of course, funnily enough, Guilliman realises at the end of DI that the Emperor was right, and finds himself doing exactly what he whines internally that the Emperor was doing.

>>54567805
I think you missed the point. The idea is, people were begging emotion from Emperor, all the while missing that fulfilling His plan to the iota was the love and faith he was showing in humanity. Everyone could be cream-puff cheery cheery after he job has been done, but not before, and especially not Emperor. To care about Marines, or Primarchs would be to care about the abhuman mutants he created for war and who were not going to rule or live alongside humanity. To care about individual humans or psykers all the while the whole of human race is at stake is just misguided. Anyone with Emperor's knowledge and insight would do the same.

>>54567842
No, I wouldn't join it. I cannot countenance something superior than me or my homeland, so I would plan to subvert and ruin that other nation. After all, they are not me and what isn't me is inherently inferior and deserve ruination.

>>54567408
Sounds like you're the one missing the point.

>>54567905
>Lorgar and Angron

"A broken Sword can still cut".

Ko'vash said this to La'Kais who was struggling by the fact that he views himself as broken member of the Greater Good and thus of no use to his people and Empire.

If the Tau figured that one out, then so did the Emperor. Angron and Lorgar were still of use.

You have seen what the Emperor did with the other two that weren't.

>If he's just pretending with psyker power to make people want to love him, why do the Sisters, who are immune to his psychic bullshit, still collectively agree with him?

They are normal humans. They are vulnerable to being brainwashed (by themselves or others). Despite their nature, the Sisterhood came to worship the Emperor as a god.

>Why does he put up with Malcador and accept that much criticism from him?

Because he is fundamentally human and needed someone to talk to. To explain things to. He is egotistical like that.

>Why does he casually chat so often with his Custodes, like he cares about their opinions?

Same reason as above. Also the Custodes he considers to be works of art. Each one he personally created, They are to him tools but they were his master pieces. It pains him to see his work destroyed. The same way an artist is pained when his art is destroyed. He doesn't care about them as persons.

>But he does care about some of them, up to a point.

There is no love in his heart for any men. He is a monster.

>>54567993
Calling him a monster just legitimizes his godhood. How many times have you seen people and fictional characters call a deity monstrous or a monster.

>>54567915
No, you missed the point that you cannot expect blind obedience from people without telling them why. Every plan in history would have succeeded if people just did what the planner wanted, but anyone, especially someone with Emperor's knowledge and insight would know that that's not how people work. Planning with love is easy. How you execute the plan is the entire point.

>>54567917
Oh you edgy little bitch.

>>54567993
Hello Carnac.

>>54568025
Yes but it delegitimize his humanity which is the point.

And by the way. According to Girlyman's practical, the Emperor is not a god because a being such as him deserves no worship.

Anyways, I just flicked through MoM. He does call Horus by his number a lot.

>‘The Sixteenth sails for Terra to crown itself king,’ said the boy. ‘Can you imagine if I allowed that to happen? A weapon, held in the wrong hands, installing itself as the lord of a whole species. Terra would be in ashes before the first sunrise.’

>>54568042
I have no idea why this line of thought offends you so.

>>54568068

He does a lot of philosophical back and forth about whether or not the emperor is a god.

>>54568078
Because he is obviously inherently inferior to us and deserves ruination.

>>54568068
He calls him by name at the end, when he's musing to himself over the events of the book. When he speaks it always seems to be less what he says and more what people hear, like he's speaking with his mind, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and people hear and interpret it according to their own beliefs and ideologies. Arkhan Land sees him as the perfect scientist, and that's what he hears. The Custodes see him as their liege-lord and themselves as his confidantes. Even Daemons see and comprehend him as their Anathema.

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>>54568089
Of course.

>>54568034
So wouldn't it be simply easier to tell everyone "I'm a god, I have reasons?"
On the converse side, the Imperial Truth was just fine for the vast majority of people, Lorgar and Co. sperged out because they weren't catered to when he bloody knew order of the day was logic and reason.

How come loyalists saw everything just fine and even if they were lukewarm about Emperor himself, they still went along with it for sake of mankind (Jaghatai, Guilliman), which was the point? how much of a maladjusted and broken person you have to be to put your personal feelings in a way of human survival, surely, even without having all the details, Primarchs kinda sensed what the deal way.

>>54567993
>He doesn't care about them as persons.
Then he should personally create them to be unthinkingly obedient to his will and stop wasting his time talking to them as if he needs to justify himself or educate them.

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>>54568112
They would obey him unquestionably no matter what. The Emperor justifying himself to them is a matter of ego. He needs them to understand his plan even when they don't need to. It's the same thing with the Necron Overlords explaining their plans to the ranks of Lychguard and immortals who would obey no matter what.

>>54568102
Here is the last bit of the novel. He continues to call him by his number.

>>54568137
He's talking to a Custodian about his traitorous son.

>>54567443
>>54567917
>>54568078
I guarantee you're a pussy that can't even benchpress your bodyweight lol

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When I look at humanity vs individual humans.
I see that humanity can work together to get shit done.


however when I look at humans they tend to have long gaps they have to travel from one point to the other in their cognitive dissonance.
in my expierence its how humans want to help others yet are very selfish and self serving, and don't really have the best understanding of what empathy is.

if Emps is the paragon of humanities qualities, this one makes complete sense to me.

>>54568137
He calls him Horus in the first highlighted passage.

>>54561099
A god is a reflection of his worshippers.

Look at the Imperium, look at how they view themselves, how they debase their existence to keep a corpse-empire functioning.

How could the Emperor care for his faithful, when they don't?

>>54568102
It's interesting that in MoM the Emperor's golden light and psychic glow is described as warm and sunny, even when he's not actively employing it to one end or another or even to the senses of the Mechanicum members. In Dark Imperium it's changed, changing to cold and harsh after his battle with Horus and in Guilliman's recollection of their conversation.

>>54568260
What? Humans on a general basis are fucking pathetic weaklings and never reach their full potential. Only occasional individual humans get anything done.

>>54568303
Perhaps people are missing that element of benevolence and empathy that was there prior to HH - don't get me wrong, he was still a warlord and waged bloody wars, but at least he was personable to a level. By 40k, he turned into what the general human gestalt has been feeding him for 10k years - cold, impersonal godhood.

>>54563623
so... he loves the idea of me, not the real me?

Maybe I should break up with him after all...

>>54568373
He loves you, anon. He doesn't love (You). (You) are an individual. He cannot afford to care about (You), because (You) detract from being anon by being identifiable.

>>54568383
Oh, Anon-kun, I am so confused

Nurgle-san said he would love me for who I am, not because I would be one of his, that he would be able to show how much he cares about me, and how much he wants to keep me safe and full of love if i just break up with God-Emperor-senpai

Why should I stay with God-Emperor-senpai if he doesn't even seem to care about me like Nurgle-san?

>>54568485
Nurgle is Reddit. You should stay away from that place, and remain among anon, where you will be safe in the God-Emperor's light.

>>54568515
I-If you say so, Anon-kun...

>>54568310
>>54568310
>>54568310
i was talking about the tendency for humans to get together as a group to get shit done.
either under comaand of one person, or just one glaring problem that a bunch of people will no longer tolerate.

>>54567443
>>54567917
Yep, this is basically the Emperor.

The point of him is that he's a metaphor for mankind as a whole. He's cunning, and innovative, and driven, and capable of great kindness. But he's hamstrung by tribalism and xenophobia and basic, ugly hubris. No matter how ascendant he seems, the Emperor is subject to all the same flaws as humanity a whole, and this is why he fails.

The fact that people seem to think this poster is being serious just shows how accurate and realistic this portrayal is - we all know humans will often act like this.

>>54569113
By the way, it's this relatively basic use allegory that elevates 40K fluff, at least conceptually, over most.

There's nothing hugely more creative about 40K fluff in comparison to, say, Infinity or Warmahordes. A lot of 40K is just fantasy in spess. It doesn't have better characters than these other franchises - in fact, the only really good character-driven piece of fiction for a wargame I've seen in the last decade was Infinity-related. But 40K was created by people trying to say something about humanity, something that engaged with the time it was created in, and in doing so they created a setting that we can connect with on a deeper level that most.

>>54569113
>He's cunning, and innovative, and driven, and capable of great kindness
>implying Black Library aren't doing their best to obliterate all of these besides "driven"

Xeno"phobia" is NOT one of the emperor's flaws. He kicked the alien's asses because the moment the age of strife hit all our former alien buddies and allies enslaved, genocided, and generally did bad shit to humanity. So Big E does what any good head of state would do, and nipped them in the bud. Plus when you add in the existence of chaos, not being afraid of aliens leads to maybe being curious about aliens. Which leads to acceptance of aliens. Oh look, these aliens worship these four gods, isn't that fascinating? I got to tell home about this!
And then boom, your galaxy is fucking dead, kiddo.

>>54569348
Except that's not true.

In writing, SOME aliens - mostly old enemies or races that are hostile to everyone, like orks, jumped on mankind.

It's canon that a lot of aliens left mankind alone or even tried to help them. The Emperor is just a dickhead.

>>54568485
Nurgle is a fat, smelly, and ugly neckbeard that will never accomplish anything. You would be embarrassed to bring him home to your parents.
The Emperor is a tall muscular chad. His golden radiance will awe others when they realize that he is not only beautiful but successful. Your parents would be so proud of you.

>>54570249
What about Isha?

>>54568358
But the collective belief of humanity on him is the opposite. He's a caring and personal God who sustains you against everything the galaxy throws at you.

>>54570472
[citation needed]

>>54570249
You parents should be equally flummoxed by either choice.

If you date Nurgle, your kids will be corpulent and ugly but kind, virile and extremely successful.

If you date the Emperor, your kids will be autistic failures, but at least they won't be manlets.

>>54570249
But Anon-kun, what about the captain of the school wrestling team, Khorne-sama?

He looks soooo strong, and already so successful, and even offered to help me become strong as well

See, Anon-kun? He wants to take care of me, make my parents proud of how strong and independent i can be, with someone who cares

>>54570440
Everyone would be jealous of you for having a hot trophy gf. You would have a great relationship until you realize that you're not her only lover. She's a massive slut that's been banging your friends and dad behind your back.

>>54570538
Khorne is a YouTube comment section. Don't defile yourself.

>>54570584
Ceograth? The deceiver? Void Dragon?

>>54570616
Yes.

>>54570538
Khorne cares about is what is on the inside. Specifically your blood and skull. He may act like he's cool and tough but really he's a creepy weirdo. You'll get tired of his one dimensional ways and inability to have a deep intellectual conversation. He also doesn't know how to keep his voice down.

>>54570584
Well I think she is too nice to cheat on you


More like someone who drags you off to save the rainforest, AGAIN.

>>54570677
And you would end up heartbroken and defeated. She has nice qualities but monogamy isn't one of them.

>>54570692
She has a guilt complex, if she broke your heart; she would implode herself

>>54570616
Heres the real question who wouldn't fuck the void dragon

>>54570721
I don't think a single person on the board wouldn't.

Void dragon is the coolest god in 40k

>>54570717
She would feel bad, true. But she wouldn't stop. She's an eldar god. She's a freak in more than one way and wouldn't be satisfied by you alone.

>>54570744
Well that's the issue.

C'tan all the way

>>54570754
C'tan aren't any better.

>>54570733
This is example of a good person right here.

>>54570584
It might be worth it, the downside of having he nicest person ever as your gf, is the fact that you aren't the only person that she is nice too.

>>54570767
I'd prefer being eaten by a C'tan than become a part of Big E or the chaos gods.

Plus they are only gods that actually truly care about the materium, because they are material as well.

>>54567408
Thats sort of the point. He's a alien mind.

>>54561099
Congratulations, you are marginally smarter than Black Library.

>>54570915
He's a half-assed character is what he is.

>>54568485
Nurgle doesn't love you either. He just apes love.

>>54570625
>inability to have a deep intellectual conversation
Well, Anon-kun, Tzeentch-san is always so nice to talk to, always has something smart to say

It feels like he might actually understand me, how smart he is, sometimes it even feels like he's looking into my very soul

Maybe I could find love with him instead of God-Emperor-senpai...

>>54569635
Hell, there are several civilizations that are human and alien coalition. The Imperium has to fight them as they reguse to turn on their alien companions.

>>54570968
Of course. Humans can't properly concive of an alien mind so it comes off poorly.

If he was such a bum, why did he try to spare Horus?

>>54571060
Old fluff.

>>54571090
Has it been rewritten?

>>54561099

Why are his knees faces?

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>>54571119
>he doesn't have face knees

>>54571098
It will be, because BL's top echelon are composed of a bunch of people with daddy issues.

>>54571098
Its in progress. The old version has been said to be now invalid.

>>54571026
No, it comes off poorly because he's a half-assed character. People can and have written alien characters well. All it takes is some imagination and an effort to show how and why their line of reasoning is different than ours. That's not what's happening here.

>>54571146
>>54571153
That's stupid.

Fedora tippers can't imagine a god that actually cares about people.

>>54571140

No seriously why? For what purpuse? 왜? It makes no sense.

>>54571215
Aesthetics

>>54571060
William King's rendition of Emperor is stupid. Not only it goes into the Emperor's own thoughts which ruins his mystery, it makes him look like a weepy fool; trying to save his fuck-up of a general who will condemn mankind to extinction should he win.

>>54571696
How horrifying that somebody might have redeeming qualities.

>>54561099
He cares about humanity not humans, he's waiting for everyone to be a psykers then they can cull the warp once more

>>54571696
Basically mankind dying is the best thing that could happen

Cause if mankind dies, the eldar die. If all that remains are orks, tyranids, and necrons, chaos stops being even a tiny threat

>>54571767
>How horrifying that somebody might have redeeming qualities.
Whose, Emperor's or Horus'?

The Emperor is basically playing SimAnt. Humans live a tiny, tiny fraction of His lifetime, so what's the big deal if you have to sacrifice a few billion here or there? As long as the nest endures.

>>54571914
More like Dwarf Fortress, complete with trained awesome dorfs to lead his dwarves against the dirty elves.

Then one of them went and opened the portal to Fun while he was busy building his new underground highway for everybody to not need to worry about the above ground roaming elephants.

>>54567603
the novel "Master of Mankind" pretty much confirm Roboute view on the Emperor.
Emperor and Custode are completly disconnected for the common man (mortal describe Custode trying to act human as some sort of uncaney valley).
One Custode call human detritus in front of a Blood Angel, which shock the Blood Angel who remind him that they fight for those "detritus".
The Emperor also says to a Custode that Primarch as tool and weapon for the completion of his plan.

This raise a question: Does the emperor would have destroyed the primarch and legion like the Thunder Warriors if the project was a success ?

If yes that mean the reason for Horus to betray the Emperor, the fear that him and his action to conquer the galaxy would be forgotten in the new order to come, would be right.

>>54572051
>Emperor and Custode are completly disconnected for the common man
That was one particularly autistic Custodian, there are other Custodes who are much more amiable. Hell, Valdor was rather nice to the woman he was sent to assassinate. As for the Emperor, i wouldn't say he's completely disconnected; he knows how to appease people judging by his time with Arkhan Land.
This raise a question: Does the emperor would have destroyed the primarch and legion like the Thunder Warriors if the project was a success ?
Maybe. The Emperor's ultimate aim was to be obsolete; so the mankind wouldn't need him anymore. A person with such mindset wouldn't have any qualms about doing the same to others.

>>54567905
>Why does he refer to Angron by his number, but Horus by his name? You don't talk about your tools like they have names.
He says in Emperor of mankind that a damaged weapon could still be used

>Why does he casually chat so often with his Custodes, like he cares about their opinions?
Because ironically the Custodes seems to be the only one he actually care a little about

>Of course, funnily enough, Guilliman realises at the end of DI that the Emperor was right, and finds himself doing exactly what he whines internally that the Emperor was doing.
And Roboute doesn't like the fact that he had to do the same shit than the Emperor to keep the Imperium.
Guilliman feel extremely alone, he was the most idealistic about the Imperial Truth (while it was just a mean to an end for the Emperor), he actually care for people, all the brother he loved are gone and he miss the time were all the primarch were on the same side.

>>54572197
>That was one particularly autistic Custodian, there are other Custodes who are much more amiable. Hell, Valdor was rather nice to the woman he was sent to assassinate. As for the Emperor, i wouldn't say he's completely disconnected; he knows how to appease people judging by his time with Arkhan Land.
Maybe but the novel pretty present the Emperor and Custode so above mortal that they don't care about the people and their imitation of human expression are described as uncanney while Astartes and Primarch seems to some connection with people and actually care about them.

>>54572197

In the Raven Guard book, Corax stayed in a luxury villa with an massive underlit underground lake while on terra, everything was scaled for his size and there were 19 other villas around the lake...

Also Guilliman would have been useful as he would go on doing his thing, being a statesman and organising shit.

Magnus was meant to control the webway

Russ could have been left alone to Fenris , doing his thing until needed. And so on.

>>54572360
Diocletian's just a sperg, anon. I'd think most of 4chan could relate to that.

>This raise a question: Does the emperor would have destroyed the primarch and legion like the Thunder Warriors if the project was a success ?
No, or at least not all of them. That would be a complete waste of the resources he put into building them in the first place. Thunder Warriors were quick and dirty, and needed to conquer Terra in the warlord days. They were manifestly unsuited for a crusade across the galaxy that would take centuries. So he had to get rid of them. And at least one surviving Thunder Warrior is okay with that, because he admits his kind needed to be put down.

All the Primarchs were likely intended for specific purposes once the crusade was done. The Emperor may well have wanted to downsize the legions once it ended, because you don't need 18-20 legions when there's nothing left to conquer, but the Primarchs likely would have been kept around.

>Magnus
Webway.
>Guilliman
Bureaucracy.
>Vulkan, Ferrus
Tech-liaisons.
>Perturabo, Dorn
Building.
>Khan
Outriders, scouting the edges of the Imperium.
>Fulgrim, Lorgar
Propaganda, media exposure.
>Curze
Mailed fist of the law.
>Alpharius/Omegon
Secret police/intelligence gathering.
>Corax
Counter-insurgency, complementing Alpharius/Omegon.
>Russ
Executioner, complementing Curze and Corax.
>Horus, Sanguinius
Manage Primarchs, "be beacons".
>Lion
Tactics, strategy, logistics.
>Angron
Unknown because Nails.
>Mortarion
Shock troops to weather the storm of the Imperium's enemies, the ones living in the bastions Pert and Dorn build.

Just a shame we'll never know what the missing two were for.

>>54569113

>implying retarded /pol/fags will ever understand the nuances of the setting

good effort for trying

>>54572581
The problem is that he never uses or even implies that he's gonna use them in that way.

If he had gone to Perturabo and said "Hey, you're gonna be super important in the next phase of the Imperium and I'm gonna let you build the most beautiful shit in the galaxy, but we just need to get through this conquest part first" things would likely have been different with him. But not only does he not do that, he savagely sanctions Magnus and Lorgar for doing things which he basically designed them to do. His actions and attitude do not grok with the theory.

>>54567665
ADB isn't Tolkien or GRRM, writing in his own universe. He doesn't have the power to ruin lore about the Emperor.

>>54572853
>He doesn't have the power to ruin lore about the Emperor.

Except he has, and continues to do so.

>>54573086
>muh Emprah must be infallible manbabby

Grow the fuck up dude.

40K was never about an infallible supergod coming to save mankind.

>>54567546

There has to be something up with Malcador. He has to be a proto-Primarch or a minor Shaman hivemind. Hell, maybe he's a product of the DAoT, or a former warlord who surrendered to the Emperor early on and was rewarded for it.

>>54563432
Gonna go with Gorkanaut.

>>54567698

The Emperor has been portrayed so differently because he is a hivemind. His personality changes to suit what is required, and because he has so many personalities. He is a godlike psyker with severe schizophrenia. Thousands of minds control his powers, rather than just one.

An easy way to justify the Emperors interest in mankinds survival is to look at the way he came into being: a patron for humankind created by the mightiest humans to exist at that time. These shamans cared enough about humanity to sacrifice themselves to give humanity a chance to exists in the grimdark universe.

This chance is the emperor. It only makes sense he cares about humanity. This is his purpose.

>>54575348
Maclador was always stressed to be an ordinary human, except for his psychic powers.

I think he is just someone who has always been drifting around and then became friends with the Emperor.

>>54575657
>hese shamans cared enough about humanity to sacrifice themselves to give humanity a chance to exists in the grimdark universe.

That's not why they sacrificed themselves. In fact, they didn't 'sacrifice' themselves exactly. What they did was done out of self-interest.

As the Warp became more chaotic they realized they were becoming less and less able to reincarnate. They committed mass suicide and congealed their souls into a single form out of a desire to avoid obliteration by the increasingly hostile Warp. It had nothing to do with guiding or shepherding humanity, it was an act of pure self-preservation for those ancient shamans.

I don't really understand why people continue to take everything the emperor said in MOM as literally his most inner thought. It call Master of Mankind and yet wrote ironicly not from his pov but those AROUND him (Land, Custodian, etc.) for a reason.

He is what people take him to be. And what everyone hear from Emperor is what they themself interpret. It is the basic of all hermanutic, you get only what is already there. What we got from MOM was mostly what the custodian generally think about primarchs, space marines, normal human, Emperor and etc.

I dare say the most geniue thing about Emperor's inner thought that the custodian ever heard was the last sentence he said.

>>54572827
Lorgar got sanctioned for preaching the wrong thing when he was repeatedly told not to preach that exact wrong thing. Had Lorgar been preaching the Imperial Truth to everybody he walked past, I suspect the Emperor would be more than accommodating of his slower conquest speed.

In the case of Magnus, the Emperor probably sanctioned it because he wasn't ready to let Magnus in on the next stage yet. It's a "he'll know when I've got these fiddly bits sorted" thing. His mistake was in believing Magnus would hold off on the sorcery and warp magic and daemons until they were.

>>54580408
The Emperor, Magnus and Nikaea will forever be nonsense until they retcon the retcon and take it back to Nikaea being about sorcery.

The UM, DA, BA, SW, WS all use psykers during the Horus Heresy breaking the edict. Fucking nonsense.

He may not care about individual humans, but he wants humanity as a whole to thrive and rule the galaxy.

>>54576540

Not him, but they do, the shamans, care about humanity, as their role was to guide their people, so it makes sense that the emperor would care

>>54572827

He was forced into the thing with Magnus due to that demon impersonating amon, as well as Mortarion having a hissy fit (but who gives a shit about Mortarion anyway?)

>>54575546
>>54575657
>>54576540

You guys do realize the shaman reincarnation thing hasn't been referenced in, like, decades, right? Its canonicity is dubious at the very best.

>>54572827
>If he had gone to Perturabo and said "Hey, you're gonna be super important in the next phase of the Imperium and I'm gonna let you build the most beautiful shit in the galaxy, but we just need to get through this conquest part first" things would likely have been different with him.

He did though, at the end of the perturabo book Pert realizes he was an unwanted martyr and it flashes back to him meeting the Emperor that warns him that his purpose is to do the jobs that would break other primarchs...Perturabo gladly accepts...then forgets about it until its too late.

>>54575348

Malcador is the last of a group of history protectors/collectors known as the order of the sigilites, he collects old relics including sunflowers by vincent van gogh

>>54582363
>as well as Mortarion having a hissy fit
Mortarion was told to do what he did at Nikaea by Malcador. Nikaea was planned decades before the actual event took place and its outcome was always going to be the banning of psykers in the legions.

>>54580623
This is what happens when you take the lazy way out.
Seriously, they could have just taken one fucking weekend, pulled an all-nighter, and bullshitted up an explanation of what exactly the difference between 'psychic' and 'sorcery' is. We would have laughed at it, yes, but that's what we do.
But no, instead, they decide 'fuck work', and declare them to just be the same thing, which just makes Nikea really fucking stupid. (Especially when you throw in the whole 'hurr durr we were planning it for years' bullshit, which makes pretty much no sense at all.)

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>>54582790
There was a difference previously they retconned it away because Matt Ward wanted his Grey Knights to appear mystical.

>>54582790
>the difference between 'psychic' and 'sorcery' is

It's sort of like the difference between "wizards" and "warlocks". Or if this is easier for you to relate to, the difference between "honkeys" and "niggers".

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>>54582872
There is no difference in 40k anymore between sorcery and psychic powers. It was retconned and its the entire reason Nikaea makes no sense anymore.

>>54582894
It was a joke you jive turkey.

>>54582840
>>54582894
I've heard people try to argue that, while it was always implied that there was a difference, it was always vague and confusing whenever somebody asked what exactly the difference was. And based on that confusion, it was therefore in everyone's best interest to simplify things by making them the same thing. Which as I've previously said, just strikes me as being really lazy.
(And honestly, every time I hear about something Matt Ward did, 'laziness' comes to mind way before 'Sue'.)

>>54582745
Which is completely retarded bullshit since the Emperor and Malcador didn't so much as lift a finger afterwards when multiple legions completely ignored it.

>>54561099
>Why is he even trying to help humanity if he doesn't care about it?
You've entirely missed the point. The Emperor loves humanity. He wants to elevate mankind to greatness with every fibre of his being. The Emperor just doesn't give a fuck about the individual because he's 50,000 years old and is operating on a scale involving trillions of lives.

>>54582983
Correct however thats what was written by BL.

>>54582983
>when multiple legions completely ignored it
Nikea was mostly just a symbolic gesture to cool rising resentment from the anti-psyker factions within the Imperium. The Thousand Sons were happily practicing sorcery on Prospero after the Edict and would have been left alone if Magnus didn't spill spaghetti all over the Emperor's throne room. Even after that all Big E wanted to do was talk with Magnus. After the Heresy broke out neither Malcador nor the Emperor really cared if the legions used librarians to fight daemons. It was the least of their worries.

>>54583033
>Nikea was mostly just a symbolic gesture
>'"Woe betide he who ignores my warning or breaks faith with me. He shall be my enemy, and I will visit such destruction upon him and all his followers that, until the end of all things, he shall rue the day he turned from my light."
>'"If you treat with the Warp, Magnus, I shall visit destruction upon you. And your Legion's name will be struck from the Imperial records for all time"
K.

>>54583046
Yes, and several Legions ignored Nikaea all the same. They were not censured for it or made enemies.

>>54583252
I'm sorry but how do those quote make you believe it was symbolic?

The actions after the fact are because of shitty retcons from when it used to be just sorcery that was banned.

>>54583271
They don't, I'm >>54582983

>>54565165
>black library will never accept a religious figure that is nice

Just wait until they write a book about oppressed sand peoples

>>54568226
>Missing the point
Go read a book sometimes, roidrat

>>54570501
The Emperor protects.

>>54575546

Isn't the Emperor known to show people exactly what they expect/want to see?
Referring to this particular chapter in Master of Mankind where Big E operates on Angron and calls the Primarchs "mere tools", wouldn't it have been the thing to expect that Big E shows himself to Arkhan Land as a cold, uncaring and ultra-logical scientist?

>>54561099
Because Daddy Issues HH authors decided to make him an uncaring piece of shit to justify the Horus Heresy. Regard it as not-canon, because it isn't.

>>54561099
because like other bad writers, HH authors want "moral greys" and instead of sticking with the already moral gray of Imperium being a shithole, they tried to make the evil guys not so evil.

>>54583793
>Isn't the Emperor known to show people exactly what they expect/want to see?
Exactly. I don't know why some people bash MoM over Emperor's potrayal. The book reveals nothing about him except even more mysteries. The real stinker was Drachn'yen.

>>54587751
What's so bad about Drachn'yen?

>>54561099
Read the inquisitor series and come back to understand the burden that has been set upon the Emperor.