/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

>>54537050
Mystic, because while Mystic may be a clusterfuck of hot garbage, at least it's not built around a feature that's basically one-time free loot drops.

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GREETINGS /5EG/

I HAVE COME, ASKING YOU HOW TO UPDATE THESE RULES FOR 5TH EDITION.

LET US CREATE FUN

I like the Artificer in spirit, but it needs some work to become viable, most notably it needs a boost in spell choices and power

Mystic, is mechanically too good at the moment, and it's archetypes invalidate most other classes. I understand their decision to have mystic cover all classes instead of making an archetype for each class, but I think it would have been better for each class to have a psionic archetype.

>>54537090
Fuck off, fun-haver

REMINDER THAT PALADINS ARE NOT BASED OFF OF GODS

HOT DAMN

>>54537131
Good. Fuck FR faggots saying otherwise.

>>54537090
Literally the same thing but attached to their 5e equivalents. The halberd and bow could be OP, the mace has no use since non-lethal attacks are supposed to be player choice on 5e (even if a lot of DMs don't use that rule)

>>54537090
Most of this shit is already covered between feats and fighting styles.

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>>54537148
>Bow could be OP
>Feat is literally worse than Crossbow Expert

OK.

>>54537090
>Battleaxe: Can attack two adjacent targets. You make two attacks. Each has disadvantage.

>Bow: Can fire two attacks at the same target. Each attach has disadvantage.

>Dagger: Can attack the same target twice in melee. Each attack has disadvantage.

>Flail: Advantage on next attack, but if you miss you instead automatically hit yourself and take damage.

>Greataxe: Auto-kills if the target's hit points after an attack are 5 or less.

>Greatsword: Deals 1 damage even on a miss. This damage can never kill a target.

>Longsword: Gain advantage on next attack, but if you miss you lose your next action

>Mace: If after a hit with a mace an opponent has 5 hit points or less, the opponent falls unconscious for 1d4 hours (as though knocked out with nonlethal damage)

>Maul: Can automatically critical. You are stunned on your next turn

>Quarterstaff: Can trip, as the Battlemaster feature

>Rapier/Scimitar: Can reduce damage die by 1 step to attack an opponent up to 10 feet away

>Scythe/Halberd: Reduce damage die by 1 step. If the attack hits, target bleeds for 1 hp per turn until it spends an action to staunch the bleeding (no Heal check required)

>Shotsword: Gain advantage on attack, but reduce damage die by one step.

>>54537148
THE INHERENT PROBLEMS USUALLY DO NOT LIE WITHIN THE ACTIVE ABILITIES, BUT MORE IN THE PASSIVE THINGS

FOR EXAMPLE, BOWS ALREADY CAN FIRE INTO MELEE WITHOUT PENALTY, RAPIERS USE DEXTERITY, SHORTSWORDS ARE ALREADY LIGHT WEAPONS, AND MACE DURABILITY IS IRRELEVANT AS WEAPON DURABILITY DOES NOT EXIST CURRENTLY

>>54537195
I don't think those are supposed to be feats

>>54537206
caps lock can be found directly underneath the Tab key, just left of the A key, for qwerty keyboards.

What do I combine Elven Accuracy with for maximum abuse?

>>54537226
Elves.

>>54537206
You are not Mister Rage, so fuck off and don't disgrace his memory.

>>54537223
thank you. i'm new to the internet

>>54537246
I knew him personally. He was a fucking shitter who thought that putting common sense in capslock made him wise. Disgrace him all you want

>>54537226
barbarogue and MC champion fighter for the extended crit range.

>>54537204
>reduce damage die by one step

what

>>54537090
It has the right idea if these are supposed to be automatically given to each weapon rather than being feats or something you have to choose only one of, but...
It's not designed for 5e and needs complete scrapping and doing over.

>>54537455
the damage die gets smaller, 1d8 goes to 1d6, and 1d6 goes to 1d4

>>54537226
Barbarian with for those 3d20 reckless attacks.

We also had an Elf Hexblade who used it quite well, had a Mastermind rogue ally to give him advantage and pull off those Warlock smites.

>>54537455
1d12 instead becomes 1d10; 1d10 becomes 1d8, etc. This functionally translates into -1 damage, though in the case of the halberd/scythe, even dealing 1 bleed damage makes up for this.

It was just a thought; I came up with these on the spot.

>>54537090
This is the opposite of fun. They purposely removed most features for specializing in a specific weapon because they were not fun. (Even PAM and XBE, the last weapon specialization options remaining, technically work on a few different weapons each.) Aside from often being a "feat tax," the main reason why they're not fun is because they make a lot of treasure unusable. Being able to pick up almost any weapon and use it just fine is fun, and it works together with the core premise of going into dungeons and discovering *unknown* piles of treasure. Picking up a weapon you can't use because you already sunk a bunch of feats into a slightly different weapon sucks shit.

>>54537591
I'm not 100% what the intention is but for all we know the intention of the poster is that these aren't actually feats or something you have to choose.

The best way to fix PAM/GWM is to give all weapons unique properties instead. You buff martials that don't take feats and nerf martials that take all the most powerful feats this way. You promote weapon choice since you don't specialize into a specific weapon and you give fighters something else to do in combat.
A lazy fighter can just pick a lazy weapon and never switch it.

>>54537090
For clarification, these are not meant to be feats, nor are they meant to be specializations. They're a system where every 10 kills you get with a weapon or type of weapon up to 50 kills, you roll a d4. On a 1, you permanently increase damage dealt with that kind of weapon by 1. On a 2, you increase the critical range. On a 3, you get the passive ability listed. On a 4, you get the active ability.

The point is not to force martials to specialize in one weapon and limit themselves, the point is to have them use a bunch of weapons and get good at using a bunch of them. If they want to use only one weapon then good for them, they'll be supremely good at using it. I know it's not balanced for 5e, it's an OSR thing. I'm not looking for Jeremy Crawford levels of balance, I'm looking for ways to make it usable in 5e.

>>54537645
That sounds needlessly complicated. Also, if you're replacing all the weapon feats with unique weapon properties you have to memorize, you're not "nerfing martials that take the most powerful feats," you're eliminating them. Instead you'll have martials who use the most powerful weapons. And these weapons will always be the same, so it doesn't help anything at all.

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>>54537693

>>54537718
Needlessly complicated?

All you need to remember is what your weapon of choice does. Pick a weapon and find that it has some nice feature you can consider using.
Anyone who wants to put more effort in can look further.

It's more complicated as it stands now: You have to understand that you're shit without feats and much more powerful without feats and then look over all the feats and realize which feat is the best and what set-up is the best.

>you're eliminating them
That we fucking are, and for good reason.
The people who took feats before can now instead take multiple weapons in their backpack for advanced play.

>martials who use the most powerful weapons. And these weapons will always be the same.
That implies you can't balance properly. Yes, the OP ideas were shit but if you balance each weapon properly choices will become meaningful. Even better if DM focuses on stuff like different weapons being good on different monsters, i.e. one damage type being better against slimes.

>>54537718
except a lot of the active abilities give martials something to do other than "i make another melee attack with my battleaxe", even if it's something as simple as "i make another two melee attacks with my dagger but at disadvantage"

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJMbkZIU-

Any thoughts or critiques? Would you run them or allow them at your table?

>>54537810
i mean it doesn't seem OP or anything, but the wording of the first feature has me worried

"Whenever you take the Attack action, you can use your bonus action to attempt to disarm, shove, or push the opponent 5 feet."

Disarm isn't an action in 5e, unless this means disarm as in the Battlemaster mechanic. Shove and push the opponent 5 feet are redundant since Shove gives you the option of pushing the back 5 feet anyways. I'll post more as I read along.

>>54537867
>>54537810
Scrap what I said about it not being OP, this shit right here would be a no go for me as a DM.

"By offering Robilar's Feint, you absorb damage to place yourself in an advantageous position. When you reach 7th level, you can take an action to adopt a fighting stance that exposes you to harm, giving the next creature who attacks you advantage on the attack roll. When you are attacked in this way, you can use your reaction to take a full Attack action against that creature with advantage."

Already it was strong enough being able to make a full attack, but with advantage? I'd just go 7 levels of this then MC rogue for my free 4 chances at a sneak attack each round. It's multiclass bait and it's absurdly strong for a 7th level feature, especially one that scales so well as the fighter gets more damage and attacks. The samurai basically gets a more defensive version of this ability as it's CAPSTONE, and he can only use it once per long rest.

>>54537204
Thanks man, these are a great start. Me and my group have been playing d&d in one form or another for almost 4 decades, and while we enjoy 5e a lot, it seems that every weapon is the same and the system seems to push players toward polearms, great swords, and mauls

Throughout d&d's history magic-users (and wizards in modern editions) have always been the guys with the most choice. We all kind of like the idea of an experienced fighter having a tool for every combat scenario, hence the need for differentiating weapons

>>54537226
Go Half-Elf for +1 STR and CON
Barbarian 2/ Champion Fighter 15
Reckless everytime
39% crit chance

>>54537810
I actually like Bloodsport Showman, Between that and Work The Crowd, it gives utility to a class that normally lacks it. Roar of the Crowd is an appropriately powerful ability, but combined with the Feint ability, you're going to be a super healing machine if you even get remotely lucky.

Exerceo is a boring ability that makes no sense within the context of the archetype. I can buy adding your physical stats to your Charisma based rolls (the strength for intimidate thing definitely makes a lot of sense to me) but adding CHA to your attacks? And CHA to athletics and acrobatics? Are you such a damn good charmer that you can fight better because of your charm? It'd make more sense if it was a magical archetype. Not to mention +5 attack is insane. If I was level 18 and I was this archetype, I'd just say fuck fighting unarmed and go GWM and spam attacks while constantly feinting for 6 attacks each round, half of which have advantage and all of which negate half of the negative of GWM. This is so easy to exploit.

>>54537942
By the way, I made those under the assumption that these are just properties that the weapons have, not each distinct feats in and of themselves.

>>54537991
Good, that's what they're meant to be

>>54537904
>It's multiclass bait
>multiclassing homebrew

that being said it sounds like shit anyway.

Generally speaking, 5e doesn't want you to gain any more actions by any means other than Haste or Action Surge. And generally speaking, you can only use extra attack features by taking the Attack action, so not on a reaction or bonus action. Being able to extra attack on a reaction is one of those things you should think long and hard about because it fundamentally alters your personal action economy in ways most classes can't do.

>>54537050
>Artificer or Mystic?

Neither if going with their current version. Artificer if they make it half-caster, shove the gun up Matt Mercer's ass, make the pet into a subclass instead of base class feature, and revamp crafting

>>54537904
What if I dropped the advantage part on the reaction attack?

You're still gambling losing out on a rounds worth of damage.
>>54537989
Any suggestions for a different capstone?

>>54537645
The best way to fix PAM/GWM/XBE/SS is to remove them entirely. If your physical guys want extra shit to do, Martial Adept is right there.

>>54537810
Overall Gladiator is a broken archetype. It has some flavor here and there, but absurdly powerful abilities along with a capstone that kills a lot of the flavor really just ruins it for me. I wouldn't let a player bring this to my table, not for a normal game.

Next, onto Beast Knight.

Beast Knight seems to be overall much, much more balanced, although I'd still throw a couple of nerfs it's way. Currently Beast Knight is just as versatile as a Battlemaster, if not more so. I'd make it to where you could only change only once every short rest. Keeps you from just taking 10 minutes of spare time to swap over and over. Mark of the Chitin and Herd have fairly powerful 1st level features, although not terribly. I'd completely reword the Chitin's one. Poisoned is not an at will condition you want to throw around. I'd also make it to where Herd can only knock prone on the first attack after his movement

>>54537090
This is pretty cool. I guess I'll have to tweak it, but damn this is cool.

Maybe I can get rid of GWM and PAM

>>54538211
Right, so the best way to fix them is to fuck with class balance so there's little to no point in using big weapons or playing fighter at all.
Great work, Sherlock.

>>54538211
I feel like maneuvers should be a reward for picking Fighter.

>>54538234
>fuck with class balance
The game wasn't balanced around feats

>there's little to no point in using big weapons
They still deal the most damage, this just make TWF viable

>playing fighter at all
You MIGHT have a point at higher levels (that most people don't even play), but getting max STR at 6 is pretty good, it also lets you choose "worse" races for fighters and smart/wise/charismatic martials.

>>54538211
Why are weapons not allowed to have different properties? Are you Mike Mearls or something?

>>54538138
Honestly I'd rework the ability entirely. I'd make it a bonus action, remove the advantage on attacks vs the target, and have a single reaction attack on a miss.

As far as a different capstone goes, I'd give a sort of "King of the Arena" ability that gives him a bonus to Athletics, Acrobatics, attack and damage based on the number of "spectators" with a cap of +5 that lasts for a minute. It's more powerful, more situational, and overall more flavorful.

>>54538211
>The best way to fix PAM/GWM/XBE/SS is to remove them entirely
Wording this

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>>54538211
Cool, take away Martial's best options. Sounds fair, as long as you cut Wizards down to 1 spell per level as well and remove Transmutation, Conjuration, and Illusion from their options as well. After all, there's like a dozen flavors of "I shoot them with an element" right there if they want variety.

The sad part is, that's STILL more fucking options than Martials have.

>>54538234
>>54538350
shit design (weapon feats) isn't a good solution to another shit design (limited martial options).

>>54538234
Classes aren't balanced around feats. Repeat after me. Classes are not balanced around feats.

>>54538249
Battlemaster gets bigger dice and more maneuvers. Nothing takes that away from them.

>>54538313
They already have different properties. They are Light, Heavy, Two-handed, Versatile, Reach, Thrown, Loading, Finesse, Special, and Ammunition

>>54538350
>>54537090
They're referring to this, which I think was posted as a way to get rid of feats.

Are the kobold press books worth getting? Really interested in the dungeon maps and beast tome

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Dubs decide what I play for the one shot one of my players is coming up with for next session so I can take a break from DMing

>>54538389
Those properties mean pretty much nothing. Every weapon feels the same in 5e.

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>>54538377
It isn't a good solution bit it's a better solution.

That's why I'm saying an even better solution is to remove them but recompensate them by upgrading all weapons.

>>54538389
>Actually believing fighters aren't balanced around feats
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>54538377
I never said it was, but taking away a shit answer and replacing it with an even shittier one doesn't help either.

>>54537226
>>54537480
Elven Accuracy Barbarian with Lucky Feat.

Have fun rolling 4 dice and picking the best of all four.

>>54538421
>Actually believing fighters are balanced around feats
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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>>54538389
>Classes aren't balanced around feats
>But some classes get extra ASIs specifically to spend on feats.

>>54538467
>But some classes get extra ASIs specifically to spend on feats.
[citation needed]

>>54538421
Show me the math that says that Fighters need PAM/GWM or XBE/SS to compete on DPR with other DPR classes. I'll wait.

If you need feats, multiclassing, or splatbooks to do it, kindly kill yourself before hitting Submit.

>>54538414
>henti

halfling barbarian
or half orc rogue

or unarmed dwarf barbarian/monk

>>54538472
Bu anon, fighters deal 0,000001% less damage than other martials! This game is broken! There is no balance without feats!

>>54537810
Now Sadist I actually like a good bit and I would actually allow at my table. I don't think I'd make any drastic changes to this one, except maybe buff Bloodhound a bit as it's far too situational.

I actually started reading this with really low hopes after gladiator was a mess, but was surprised as to how fun Sadist seems.

>>54538414
All UA is allowed btw

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>>54538449
Firstly, what the fuck do you expect them to do with all their extra ASIs?
Up their intelligence?

Secondly, why would you ever progress barbarian past 5 if multiclassing is allowed considering that barbarogue blows no-feat barbarian out of the water?

No, heck, why bother using big weapons at all? Just get duelling + sword+shield.

Thirdly, how come then that casters do practically the same damage as fighter which is supposed to be good at dealing damage?

>>54538472
I can go give you that later since I'm slightly busy right now but have this in the meantime.
The main thing to question is how much stronger they are than casters. It's not that casters will do more at-will damage, but that fighters need to do a lot more at-will damage than casters because they sacrifice a lot of out of combat utility and control and AoEs and burst to get that at-will damage.

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>>54538470
>Citation needed
NIGGA WHAT?
READ THE DAMN HANDBOOK!

>>54538436
I'd actually prefer a game where weapon feats were banned and martials would play something other than PAM GWF for everything melee. It adds staleness to the game. >>54538467
Feats are an optional rule and none of the classes are designed assuming they can get feats.
>>54538526
You really are the worst poster here right now.

>>54538526
Literally nowhere in the Feat OR Fighter section does it say that the extra ASIs are intended to be used on Feats, a feature the PHB goes out of the way in saying is optional.

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>>54538526
It's you who should read the book

>>54538549
>I'd actually prefer a game where weapon feats were banned and martials would play something other than PAM GWF for everything melee
This

>>54538574
>>54538575
Not only is it optional but by default Variant ASI rules are not in effect. Gotta go through the DM for that stuff.

>>54538515
>Martials have no out of combat utility!
>What are they SUPPOSED to spend their ASIs on? Stats that increase their out of combat utility?!?!

>>54538630
I find it funny that the people who complain the martials don't have options outside combat are the first to say they need to take the MORE DAMAGE feats

What do you think about replacing the death saving throw, saving throws and skills?

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>>54538630
>Martials can increase their intelligence for better out of combat utility!
>+1 on int rolls is totally gonna blow this +5 int wizard with whole books full of effects that can't be replicated with skill check out! He's gonna be so jealous! Suck it, bard, I don't care if you have proficiency in fucking everything, I have PLUS ONE to my charisma checks now!

@54538671
Nice straw man

>>54538649
If you're saying martials should take non-combat feats, this anon is saying that martials aren't balanced around feats and thus should be fine even if they take non-combat feats such as ritual caster.

>>54538654
That's an extremely vague and broad question. Without knowing what you intend to replace those three barely-related things with, none of us have any way to give a meaningful answer.

>>54538693
>martials aren't balanced around feats and thus should be fine even if they take non-combat feats such as ritual caster.
They are

>>54538654
>death saving throw
Replace it with what? I think reworking death rules in general is a good idea, but what would you replace the death saving throw itself with?
>saving throws
As in all saving throws? With what? A Will/Reflex/Fortitude defense system like in 4e? That seems like a lot of work for minimal benefit.
>skills
I think the skill system in 5e is fine. At first I hated it, but I've grown to appreciate it for what it is.

>>54538654
I don't know what your asking, but I've replaced skills with a much more complex system that's a bastardization from earlier versions because players are simply getting tired of the lack of quality crunch 5e has compared to 3.5e.

>>54538732
>Replace it with what? I think reworking death rules in general is a good idea, but what would you replace the death saving throw itself with?


Really interested in good ideas for this, death saves are one of the worst parts of the game.

Ideally for me it would be better if it was harder for PCs to get KO'd, but once they do, much more likely for them to die. Keep the overall mortality rate of the game the same but have players spend less turns KO'd and unable to act.

>>54537195
Not taking double shot, cbe and ss to double your number of attacks and doing +10 dmg on all of them.
Champion fighter op

>>54538654
I've had an idea for an small rework of the skill system that allows a better expression of how good a character is a certain skills rather than locking them into the exact same +prof bonus for everything.

Each class gets a number of skill points equal to however many skills their class is allowed to get normally times two. A fighter would get four points while a rogue gets eight.

Whenever you choose a skill, you spend a certain number of points. If you spend 1 point, you get the skill as a minor skill, meaning you add only half your proficiency bonus to that skill, but you're still considered proficient. Spending two points gets you normal proficiency. Spending four points gets your expertise.

Every time you get an ASI, you get a skill point. You can use that skill point to get a new skill or "upgrade" a skill. It takes one point to make a minor skill into a normal skill and two to make a normal skill into an expertise.

I haven't tested it yet, but on paper it seems like it's not an overly complicated way of doing skills while stilling being faithful to some of the core mechanics.

>>54537361
Sure you did.

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>>54538756
>Quality
>Crunch

Pick one, because "crunch" is kind of the exact opposite of "quality" game design. Nobody wants to have to study spreadsheets and shit just to play their character decently. Leave that shit in Pathfinder Hell where it belongs.

>>54538925
Streamlined crunch is higher quality crunch. No bearing on effectiveness of the characters or any of that.

>>54538925
Not everybody is interested in replicating the Critical Role masturbatory experience Anon, It's impressive you can spend an hour talking about eating dragon semen but something people want to actually play the game aspect of RPG.

>>54538925
There's always been some amount of crunch in DnD. How much you like is just a matter of preference. To say all crunch is the opposite of quality is a subjective statement, not an objective one.

>>54538497
>>54538497
Thanks lol. Suggestions for Bloodhound?

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EBBERON

Do you NEED a cleric/paladin to successfully complete Curse of Strahd?

>>54539213
>Someone else posting Eberron
Quick, tell me your favorite part of it.
Looking to run a game set in it but not sure if my players would like it

>>54537693
>nor are they meant to be specializations.
>The point is not to force martials to specialize in one weapon and limit themselves
>Level up individual types of weapons by counting kills, up to a maximum level of four, but maybe you won't actually get to max level even at max kills, so you dump that weapon in the trash and try for a new one.
No, it's a system for randomly specializing in weapons. >>54537747 is right.

>>54539200
I would just completely replace the feature. Seeing as your point pool disappears after a minute and your skill would likely be used out of combat, I don't think spending two points just to gain advantage on two social skill checks and stealth is all too useful. The only part that seems useful is maybe the stealth bit if you want to sneak away from an enemy after going ham on them. The feature is just overall poorly designed.

>>54539213
What is it with D&D players not being able to process the letters "BERR"? I never stop seeing people misspell both "Eberron" as "Ebberon" and "aberration" as "abberation." I'm surprised players seem to be able to spell it "Goodberry" and not "Goodbbery."

>>54539220
No.

Also, if you're a paladin in Barovia, Strahd can sense exactly where you are at all times, so maybe leave the paladin at home.

>>54539284
I... thought I posted "EBERRON." I feel so ashamed.

>>54539235
What is there NOT to love about it? Warforged are such an interesting rate, Lords of Dust are such great villains, Sharn is such a fantastic super-city.

>>54539284
lol fucking retard druid character
>GOODBUREE HURR

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My thatguy just said this, how worried should I be that he might be in my campeign

>>54539284
If I was forced to guess, it'd be because the natural way those words are pronounced makes it sound like a double-B.

Like, most people say "ab-ber-a-shun", not "ab-er-a-shun."

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>>54539353
Are you a DM? Because if you are, then you know what you must do.

If you're not the DM, then tell your DM what he must do.

>>54539353
>flushed out
just like your DM should flush out the shit character he's probably going to bring to the table

>>54539353

Kick him.

>>54539353
>town full of rich people
>undefended
???

>>54539401
If he trys to kill the guard I'm making the entire guard half orcs with minimum 3 fighter lvels

>>54539434
security is an illusion

>>54538905

I think the biggest obvious problem is that bards with Jack of All Trades have no reason to ever take minor skills. Well, maybe that's not really much of a problem.

>>54539401
Forgot to mention last game he played a fairy and murdered 3 or 4 innoncent dwarves for the luls

>>54537050
Ban them both.

>>54539299
Go shitpost on Twitter, Spoony. Strahd can't literally detect paladins.

>>54539528
CAN paladins literally detect him?

>>54539379
You don't say the B twice in either of those, though. And "aberration" is the sort of word that you can sort of guess the etymology of: something that has "erred" or deviated from the norm.

>>54539484
I think it's a better solution than letting the bonuses stack from minor skills and JoAT and basically giving the Bard 6 whole skill proficiencies and one new skill proficiency every ASI.

>>54538925

At a certain point though, lack of crunch just feels really restrictive. Like in 5e, there are 4 levels of training in a skill: not proficient, jack of all trades, proficient, expertise.

If you're not a rogue and you don't take feats there isn't much you can do to represent having a lot of training in one skill and comparatively less training in another. 90% of the time you're just either proficient or not. Makes characters feel more 2 dimensional to me.

>>54539542
Within 60 feet, yes.

The point is that Strahd can't literally detect every paladin in Barovia.

>>54539353
Let him try. High-priced security captures and executes him.
This approach is good because he'll leave all by himself.

>>54539549
Not exactly.
The etymology is from Latin, "ab" (away from) and "errare" (wander), literally "wander away from," "stray."

>>54538905
>taking something that was clear-cut and functional and making it more fiddly and granular for no good reason

No.

>>54539576
Honestly I remember theses thread several months ago were pretty desperate for more crunch with tons of complaining about how samey their characters all feels.

>>54539608
Yeah, the same root as stuff like "errant" and "error," surely the sort of thing that a regular English-user would notice.

>>54539645
I wasn't disagreeing with you that an English speaker should identify the root, just that it means something slightly different than what you said.

>>54539400
I sent this to him and he said it was good because the players did what athey wanted

>>54539592

Well, he can, but not because they are paladins.

(Druids on the other hand, he probably can)

>>54539400
To the player because I'm the DM

>>54539616
>for no good reason
How is adding a small amount of depth to skills not a good reason?

>>54539683
Sure, but the important thing is that they also ignored a rather significant event. The world is bigger than the PCs, and they can ignore stuff at their own risk.

If That Guy wants to ignore the dragon in order to loot the town, well...the dragon will probably have the same idea at some point.

>>54539353
>>54539400
>>54539683
>>54539713

Why are the PCs the only ones capable of slaying the dragon though? If the world lives and dies by whether or not the PCs show up to save the day, I start to wonder how civilization managed to exist before they were born.

>>54539713
Im planning to run SKT, so it will probably be stone giant destroying the town as he trys to loot it
>>54539750
Because drizzt is to busy killing demogorgon or some shit who knows

>>54539750
where do you think all those ancient ruins came from?

>>54539790

The last group of PCs, obviously

>>54539750
Because the PCs are still the stars of the show even if the world doesn't revolve around them. And everyone else is too busy doing their own thing (which is part of "the world is bigger than the PCs")

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>>54538984
How is Critical Role the only thing close to that I've watched is the DM of the Rings comic

>>54538687
>>@

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>>54540007

@54540040
Problem? :^)

>>54540083
: ^ )

>>54537090
Unearthed Arcana Feats has better weapon masteries.

>>54538810
I was thinking in making it deadlier, like they area deat at -CON Score

>>54540178
But they're just that, feats. This is something that's part of the system without having to waste a feat on them. Fuck taking feats to specialize in a weapon, PAM GWM and XBE have already proven that it's shit.

>>54538671
>>54538687

>>54540040
>>54540083

Don't mind me, just getting annoyed with stupid memes

>>54539706
That's what you're doing, not why you're doing it. It's a solution looking for a problem. Scrap it.

>>54538687
>Oh god he actually debunked why I'm stupid in only two lines better call it a straw man

>>54540209
So just grant the weapon mastery feats as a class feature.

>>54540217
But what's the problem with it? You haven't explained that part yet.

What's a "Drizzt"?

>>54540260
Our favorite elf girl.

>>54540254
Again, the point is to take feats away from the system entirely and reward players for using a multitude of weapons.

>>54540298
So just don't call them feats.

Point is, the rules suck and were better done in the Unearthed Arcana.

Cos I need help with my Curse of Strahd campaign

I have decided I want to implement the Expedition To Castle Ravenloft's mechanics of giving Strahd extra powers from his bond with the land of Barovia, and he regulates the powers he gets (like extra AC, Superiority Die, whatever) through things like the Heart of Darkness that are spread throughout the land, one like the Megaliths, the other one in Yesterday's Hill and a third one TBD, at the bottom of Lake Zarovich probably.

What I want to know is how do I plausibly get the party to smash these focii without having it force Strahd's hand to lash out at them in a TPK?

>>54538307
>They still deal the most damage, this just make TWF viable
TWF is viable, but still clearly underperforms even with no feats.

>>54540319
I'm pretty sure that's why the OP was asking for help fixing them

>>54540256
When designing anything, the burden of proof is on you to justify its existence.

Having to track half-skills makes the game more complicated for the sake of a mere +1-3 bonus is a minor annoyance. There is nothing positive about the idea to make up for this. When you try to describe why you want to do it, all you do is rephrase the idea without providing a justification. Stop.

>>54540349
And here's the fix: use Unearthed Arcana's weapon masteries.

>>54540260
Something that no individual person actually likes, but somehow the collective population loves.

So he's the Guy Fieri of D&D.

>>54540373
I love Guy Fieri though

>>54540373
Taking adventures to flavor town?

>>54540323
Not sure you can. The entire point of Strahd is that he's arrogant, but also smart. He'd lash out immediately.

However, there are friendly NPCs you can recruit to help you in Barovia. So perhaps instead you get the friendly NPCs to knock over the various focii DURING the battle with Strahd, or at most slightly before. Try and recruit some townsfolk to aid the NPCs, too. Classic mob situation.

Rebellion this shit up, basically.

>>54537090
These rules read like they're from 3.5. The whole "you have this option, but it probably won't work" leads to players either spamming Basic Attack or missing. That plus there's feats that allow you to do these thing better (again, just like 3.5).

If you want to play 3.5, play 3.5.

>>54540323
Simple: don't have them. If the party aren't supposed to face Strahd until they've destroyed all the maguffins, then the fight with Strahd will be exactly the same whether the maguffins existed or not, and the maguffins were just extra makework. If you want to make him tougher because of his status as a darklord, just give him better stats or better lair actions. If not, fuck it and run him as written.

>>54538515
Fighters aren't sacrificing burst, especially not BM fighters.

But they're definitely balanced to take feats that increase damage (GWM) or utility (Ritual Caster) or control (Sentinel).

>>54540356
It makes the game marginally more complicated to give players a better expression of their skills. As it stands, the game assumes your skill in anything you're proficient is roughly the same. This doesn't represent a character that may only slightly dabble in a certain skill or a character who focuses entirely on one or two skills. It's even based off proficiency bonus. If having to remember which skill you have to halve, double, or keep the proficiency bonus the same is such an annoyance, then perhaps you probably shouldn't be playing tabletop games in the first place.

>>54538549
Would any fighter use a hand crossbow if not for Crossbow Expert? Would any fighter use a glaive if not for Polearm Master? The point of those feats is to expand the game's meaningful weapon options. That's why the PHB isn't as likely to have a feat for options that are already desirable.

But I shouldn't bother talking balance and game design with a "ban everything" poster.

>>54540323
Strahd can't get near or watch the focii because magic. He'll be able to know that they're being destroyed but not who destroyed them.

After the first one get smashed, he gets paranoid and the heat is on. After the second one, he's even more freaked and things get harder on everyone. By the third, he's in full panic mode.

>>54537050
Mystic is banned from every game I play in because its abilities upset the DMs. Artificer is considered super boring if you play gunsmith, and weak if you play alchemist by everyone in our group.

Between the two I would definitely rather be Mystic.

>>54540504
No, a fighter wouldn't use a hand crossbow, but fighers already aren't using Longbows. All you've done is replace one thing with another even more broken thing. You've not expanded options, you've replaced them with something better.
> That's why the PHB isn't as likely to have a feat for options that are already desirable.

But the game's not balanced around feats. They should have worked to either A. Properly balance the game around feats, or B. Properly balanced the game without them. As it stands, they've failed at both.

But I shouldn't bother talking balance and game design with a "I allow weapon feats" poster.

>>54539576
I wish there was a proficient and a half category, but I don't know how that'd be worded in a way that doesn't break any rules.

>>54540635
my ranged fighter would use a longbow
since greatbow doesn't exist anymore

>>54540504
>hand crossbow

This is a head scratcher. The obvious use for a 1 handed ranged weapon is the ability to hold something in the off hand while using it. This gets essentially canceled by the fact that you need to load ammo into it however.

Maybe in the edge case where you have a shield up, draw a loaded hand crossbow, fire once, and then drop the crossbow on the ground, anticipating being in melee on the next turn.

>polearm

You still get one extra square of reach, which could have its uses.

Both hand crossbow and polearm still have some tiny niche at least without the feats.

>>54537050
Any chance I could get a balance critique?

First Draft, but I think they're on the right track.


Ogre
>Ability Scores: Str +2, Con +1
>Size: Large
>Darkvision
>Large Size. {
Large Build
• Your size counts as Large when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Long-Limbed
• When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.
Large Footprint
• You take up a 10 foot area instead of a 5-foot area.
*Note: Your size has no effect on your weapon damage dice, which are the same as they would be for a medium or small creature.
}
>Natural Armor.

Ogre (Common)
>Ability -2 Int
>Speed: 35ft.
>Languages. Common, and Giant.

Ogre (Merrow)
>Ability Scores: -2 Int
>Speed: 30ft.
>Swim 35 ft.
>Partially Amphibious: You can breathe air and water. However, after being out of the water for 8 hours, you begin to suffocate, taking one level of exhaustion every hour. You only benefit from a long rest taken while submerged under water.
>Languages. Common, and Giant.


Ogre (Ice Spire)
>Ability Scores: -2 Cha
>Ice Spire Born: You're acclimated to high altitude, including elevations above 20,000 feet. You're also naturally adapted to cold climates, as described in chapter 5 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. Additionally, you are immune to the effects of the toxic gas of the Ice Spire Mountain tunnels.
>Blood Dance: As a bonus action, you can enter a rage. This state lasts for 1 minute, during which time you have Advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws, and a +1 damage bonus on melee weapon attacks using Strength, and Resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing Damage. Your rage ends prematurely if your are knocked unconscious, end your turn without having attacked a hostile creature or taken damage since your last turn, or choose to spend a bonus action to do so. If you have the Rage class ability, increase your Rages per Day by +1 instead.
>Languages. Common, and Giant.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJMbkZIU-

Made a number of balance changes to Gladiator, some wording changes for Beast Knight, and some minor tweaks to Sadist.

Thoughts, comments, criticism? Would you play any of them or allow one at your table?

>>54540678
>not carrying a half dozen redundant fire & drop weapons

>>54540714
>size: large

Stopped reading here. None of the official playable races are large, not even goliath.

>>54540752
The question is if they're balanced, not if they're similar to extant races. The game probably doesn't break just because a race is Large in and of itself.

>>54540446
Compared to other classes, their burst is pretty limited. It's about once a short rest super-burst if they decide to use it like that.
Paladins have more burst.
Wizards have more burst but it's more spread out.
All other casters have more burst.
Monks have more burst with stunspam.

The only classes that don't have more burst are the ranger, artificer, barbarian, rogue, maaaybe warlock and druid.

>>54540741
Well let me out it this way. There is no class that specializes in fighting exclusively with daggers. A dagger is a weapon you carry with you because it's small, concealable, etc. It makes an ok sidearm but no one builds their character around it. Hand crossbow is the same way, a small weapon you can easily pull out when it's convenient.

And if you want to build a fighter who specializes in glaives instead of greataxes for whatever reason, you're missing out on one average damage. Nothing to bitch about.

>>54540323
Make him not want them and not realize that destroying them imperils his position as a darklord. He might even be grateful to the PCs for destroying them because they're places and objects of painful significance to him.

The thing to remember about Strahd is that he is nothing more than a delusional prisoner. Strahd's dominion over Barovia doesn't come from himself directly; it is all granted to him by the Dark Powers as part of their elaborate mind games to feed his bottomless hubris and his various forms or ironic punishment. Things that "empower" Strahd are really just things that make him interesting and entertaining to the Dark Powers. The only way to really escape Ravenloft is to make the Dark Powers bored with you.

>>54540714
>Any chance I could get a balance critique?
Sure, take goliath, rename it. Wipe this shit off your hard drive.

>>54540635
>Fighters aren't using longbows
What are they using for ranged attacks then? Strong language?

>>54540834
>What are they using for ranged attacks then? Strong language?
No, that would be bards.

>>54540584
Artificer isn't weak.
Gunsmith is just a worse rogue unless they make good use of the level 6 ability, but alchemist has healing and at-will prone+pushback AoEs which is something, and some utility. Perhaps not as good as wizard if you don't do really long adventuring days but if you make good use of the level 6 ability alchemist isn't weak.

>>54540678
>Maybe in the edge case where you have a shield up, draw a loaded hand crossbow, fire once, and then drop the crossbow on the ground, anticipating being in melee on the next turn.
So like a really awkward upgrade over throwing a dagger, except the rules don't even cover keeping a crossbow loaded all the time because a crossbow is not a pistol and that's not how you keep a crossbow and if the rules did cover pre-loading a crossbow it'd only be to tell you how long you can keep it loaded before you've ruined your crossbow.

>>54540802
Fighters make it up with that 3rd attack though
Plus they BM's always have one superiority die I thought

>>54540714
You can't just say "Natural Armor" and not give any kind of AC calculation.

Literally the only reason to ever not take the Ice Spire subrace is if you're going Paladin. The Common subrace has no extra abilities why? And the Merrow subrace is worthless if you can't stay out of water for a fucking day.

Also Ice Spire doesn't have a speed, and if all the subraces have the same languages, why is that not just a race-level feature?

>>54540858
Most of my the games I played were below level 6, maybe that's it? Never played artificer myself; all I know is everyone thinks the alchemist is super weak and the gunsmith does nothing but shoot every turn.

>>54540714
>negative ability scores
Not very 5E.

>Partially Amphibious
The wording for this is a bit weird. I'm guessing what you mean is, once you use up your 8 hours in the water, you can only regain your underwater breathing with a long rest.

>Bonus rage
That's overpowered for a class that's already Large size.

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>>54540817
They have a slight niche with Swashbucklers at least due to being a throwable offhand weapon

>>54540584
>Mystic is banned from every game I play in because its abilities upset the DMs
Who the fuck is stupid enough to actually allow Mystics in their games?

>>54540877
>Fighters make it up with that 3rd attack though
That's not burst, though. Well, I guess it contributes somehow.
BMs only always have one superiority die at highest levels.

>>54540887
Artificer gets an allosaurus if they want that and that deals pretty good damage considering it can act of its own accord.
Only issue is healing it up again.
It's really weird and needs changing, yes, but it can work I think.

>>54540870
Ok but it's a hand crossbow. Objectively a smaller, shittier crossbow. Why should it be the best ranged weapon in the game?

>>54540858
The level 6 ability does somewhat compensate for the lack of cunning action artificers have, though, just because you can build a completely independent creature for pure utility purposes.

>>54538211
I fixed it by making them incompatable. GWM does not work with polearms. SS does not work with XBE. This way powergamers are less forced to use hand crossbows and halberds

>>54540714
It's hard to balance large creatures as it is. if you're going to hojmebrew anything, i'd avoid large creatures. but seeing what you have right here...

>Natural Armor
Did you forget to put something here?

>Ogre (Ice Spire)
Is the rage ability at will? Is it on a short rest? long rest? What's it's speed?

As it stands, I would just play an Ice Spire ogre over the other two. Not to mention the issues with having a large race. You've also basically just made a large sized, almost completely better Bugbear. I remember some time back I made an Ogre race that went something along the lines like this:

Ogre
>+2 STR, +1 CON, -2 INT
>Medium
>7-9 ft tall on average, 350-500 lbs
>Darkvision

Large Build

Proficiency in Athletics

Unreadable Mind: The sheer stupidity and randomness of the thoughts that travel through your head constantly make reading your mind an exercise in filtering signal from noise. you gain advantage on saving throws to resist having your mind read and you gain resistance to psychic damage.

Dumb Luck: The Gods of the world have pity on you and have bestowed you with luck. Whenever you fail a saving throw, attack roll. or skill check, you can make an intelligence saving throw against the same DC (if it's an attack roll, the DC is equal to the target's AC.) If your saving throw succeeds, you critically fail the check. If your saving throw passes, you succeed. You regain use of this feature after a long rest.

>Languages: Common and Giant.

>>54540817
people and their white-room thought experiments always forget that you might want to have a reach weapon just for the reach and not for the broken feat they made.

>>54540937
That is much better

>>54540802
Burst can be measured in size and frequency. Fighters have a great size of burst. Their frequency is, for most of their career, once per short rest.

Paladins have a lesser size of burst, but their frequency is several times per long rest.

Wizards are different. They clearly don't have as much burst ability as sorcerers, for example. And casting a 1st level spell at 5th level isn't really burst at all. So they can burst several times per long rest, by casting their spell slot spells, but what qualifies as burst changes over time.

Monks stunspam is burst, but an enemy can't get more stunned. It's clearly limited in magnitude.

>>54540937
> If your saving throw succeeds, you critically fail the check. If your saving throw passes, you succeed.
Fucking what?

>>54540798
>The game probably doesn't break just because a race is Large in and of itself.
It really does.

>>54540951
Mentioned that already here

>>54540678

>>54540966
It's dumb luck. They're lucky BECAUSE they're dumb.

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>>54540937
>If your saving throw succeeds, you critically fail the check. If your saving throw passes, you succeed

This sounds fun!

>>54540817
Bad example since daggers are the strongest TWF/throwable Dex Melee weapon they have a clear niche. The Hand Crossbow is just kinda shit.

>>54540980
But that ability doesn't even make sense. Passing and succeeding on a saving throw are the same thing. How can you simultaneously critically fail and succeed on it?

DMs, how do you run gambling in your campaigns?

>>54540970
actually, all that being large sized gets you is your 10x10 footprint, and the ability to shrug off grapples, being larger does not inherently grant you anything else, that i'm aware of at least.

>>54541012
- You can grapple Huge creatures.
- You can push/pull/lift/carry twice as much.
- Weapons made for your size deal twice as many damage dice on a swing.

>>54540716
>Why does the Gladiator forget how to throw a punch or hit someone with a chair in heavy armor?
>Showman stacks with charisma, proficiency and expertise, yeah? Maybe it shouldn't. Maybe they should get the higher of their Str/Dex/Expertise. For god of the Arena, same thing: higher of Cha/Expertise.

Other than that, my only concern is it still seems crappier than battlemaster. I would allow it though.

Beast Knight
>I got all excited thinking this was gonna be a fighter with an animal companion a la revised ranger.
>All the marks do seem pretty neat, however.

Sadist:
These would make much more sense if designed as maneuvers. I would not allow this one.

>>54541002
Oops, that was a typo. It should read
>If your saving throw succeeds, you critically fail the check. If your saving throw fails, you succeed.

>>54540915
Why should it be the worst ranged weapon in the game either? Nevermind, the blowgun still exists.

>>54541041
you realize this creates a loop, right?

>>54541041
That's better, but there are also no critical fails in 5e.

>>54540714
>large
>natural armor: nothing
>one subrace grants a bit of speed while the other grants FUCKING RESISTANCE TO DAMAGE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (at least it doesn't has speed so RAW it can't move)
>large
never homebrew again

>>54541038
And these races get one of those things, plus the large creature's reach, that you left out.

If you had read it, you would have seen what exactly being large grants them, because it's spelled out.

I probably should have included the ability to grapple huge creatures, that one slipped my mind.

>>54541038
> You can grapple Huge creatures.

So?

> You can push/pull/lift/carry twice as much.

So?

> Weapons made for your size deal twice as many damage dice on a swing.

This is the first one that's actually troubling, but on the other hand they'd also cost a fortune to make, and you're not likely to find a lot of magic weapons in your size, if you find magic weapons at all.

>>54541066
Large creatures don't automatically get reach in 5e. Ogres are large and wield greatclubs--their reach is still just 5 feet.

>>54541053
>Why should it be the worst ranged weapon in the game either?
Because hand crossbows are shitty? It should be on par with a dagger for damage. The tradeoff is range for loading.

>>54541053
Because it's smaller and weaker than the other crossbows.

It's the kind of weapon a "prepared for every eventuality" fighter whips out every now and then, not a weapon you build a character around.

>>54541038
>Weapons made for your size deal twice as many damage dice on a swing.
gonna need citation for this one.

>>54540958
I'd disagree with suggesting paladins have lesser burst. They can attack 4 times in a round for a potential of 4 spell slots used every round, and easily consume their entire long rest burst within one or two attacks, without even casting haste on themself.

What is the best way to build a STR Valor Bard? I want to make a Pal 2/Valor Bard X that wears heavy armor and casts spells by using inspirational speeches instead of instruments

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>>54541096

>>54541093
It's the kind of weapon a "prepared for every eventuality" fighter whips out literally never. Along with the blowgun.

>>54541117
appreciated, but where can it be found?

>>54541054
The wording is confusing. You're making a separate saving throw for the feature than the original one you're trying to change the outcome of. A "success" on the Dumb Luck saving throw equals a failure for the original saving throw/check. A "failure" on the Dumb Luck saving throw equals a success for the original saving throw/check

>>54540827
Goliath is shit, not large, and in no way a reasonable approximation of an Ogre, Merrow, or Ice Spire Ogre.

Have any *VALID* critiques? perhaps something to do with the actual content of the post?

What's the problem with a 10-foot footprint? The other benefits they get for being large are the same as bugbear.

Maybe I should have included the grappling modifiers, but they slipped my mind.

>*Note: Your size has no effect on your weapon damage dice, which are the same as they would be for a medium or small creature.

>>54541117
Someday I'll have to make an advantage cheese build that wields an oversized weapon with no disadvantage.

>>54541119
Alright, well that's a better arrangement than making it into an assault rifle.

No one uses light hammers either, and I don't see you bitching over them.

>>54541160
I had a player who dual wielded a light hammer and a sickle on his Commie Warlock

>>54541129
DMG pg. 278.

To be clear, this doesn't necessarily apply to players--a Large race would probably exclude that. But without that, taking up a 10x10 space just makes playing and adjudicating for a player more difficult, so Powerful Build is the best solution.

Also as a fun fact: for all people's bitching about it, Goliaths have *always *been Medium creatures with Powerful Build, even back when they first appeared in Races of Stone for 3.5e. Because that is the best, most balanced way of making large humanoids a player race, and thus was also applied to firbolgs.

On the subject of weapon feats has anyone used the spear mastery one?

>>54541117
So using a Large weapon is no-feat man's GWM?
Can someone run the math? I think it might be worth to use it against low AC enemies.

>>54541148
Be a barbarian with a large Greataxe. Reckless attack to get rid of the disadvantage and hit for 2d12+str.

>>54541160
And the opposition would say that's where they should be and that conceiving of a feat that makes light hammers practical would be OP/banned.

Plus, the light hammer is not a martial weapon and is the only 1-hand-able ranged attack that does bludgeoning damage? So it *would* be in his kit.

>>54541216
Is an extra d12 on a hit worth having all attacks against you have advantage forever?

>>54540883
Rough Draft.

Isn't all racial natural armor in 5e just 13+dex, or armor, whatever is higher, add shield AC if desired?

Yeah, Ice Spire is better.

I started with just covering what they had in previous editions. Ice Spire Ogres are regular ogres, but smarter, with cold resistance, immunity to the toxic gas in the tunnels they live in, and the ability to rage like a barbarian.

I wasn't sure whether I should be attempting to boost up ogre and merrow to match ice spire, or just not allow the ice spire ogres.

Someone mentioned that normally large creatures get the ability to shrug off grapples and grapple huge creatures, something I didnt add in because I forgot about it. How beefy would it be to add part or all of that grappling feature in?

>>54541217
We're not talking about a feat that makes light hammers practical. We're talking about a feat that makes light hammers do more damage than a maul.

>>54541237
As a barbarian you should be using Reckless Attack all the time anyway. And the math probably works out. +6.5 extra damage on average vs. a regular attack with advantage.

It's also an easy way to avoid debuffs forever. If you have disadvantage and advantage all the time, any more disadvantage you get will be automatically canceled.

>>54541145
Are Goliath's still nothing fluff wise or did they keep up with that Aztec thing they had goin on that one time

>>54541237
Sometimes. Maybe if your attack bonus is high enough it's worth not using reckless attacks and hitting 2d12 at disadvantage.

>>54540895
>Negative Mods
Several races in VGM have them.

>Partially Amphibious
No. I mean the opposite. You can only long rest underwater, and after 8 hours in the air you start to slowly suffocate. Like aquatic elves (which haven't been statted for 5e).

>Bonus Rage is overpowered given the other features.
What does rage damage have to do with carrying capacity or reach?

>>54541266
They're kinda "noble savage" mountain men now

>>54541148
You could just play a barbarian that always goes full retard

So how much damage a Champion with archery and close quarters shooter using a Large hand crossbow can chuck out?

>>54541132
also, there is no such thing as a critical failure
>>54541145
>Have any *VALID* critiques?
yes, your race is shit. and trust me, that is a valid critique.
>Goliath is shit, not large, and in no way a reasonable approximation of an Ogre, Merrow, or Ice Spire Ogre.
That alone, is valid enough reason for you to throw your idea in the trash. No one gives a shit about your special snowflake races.
As for "no way a reasonable approximation of an Ogre, Merrow, or Ice Spire Ogre"
lets see:
Ogre: +2 Str, +1 Con
Goliath: +2 Str, +1 Con

Ogre: Your size counts as Large when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Goliath: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.

Ogre: Speaks Common and Giant
Goliath: Speaks Common and Giant

Ogre: Speed 35
Goliath: Speed 30

Oh man, these guys are SOOOOO different, you're absolutely right, I take back everything I said!

>>54541281

>several races

Off the too of my head it's just orcs and Kobolds. Orcs are notable for being shittier than half orcs and Kobolds are weird in general, also being the only player race with pack tactics.

>>54541012
>you can't block small or smaller creatures like a medium character can
>but now you can block huge creatures
>you can also grapple them
>enlarge turns you huge
>increased reach
>gotta squeeze through a lot of spaces that are just normal passages on a map for adventurers
>you won't be able to wear normal armor
>and then there's the issue of cover
>and mounts
>and how much they need to eat
>oh, and then your players start pointing out that it makes no sense for the ogre rogue to be running around with a little dagger made for a human when it's a toothpick to him, and then they start wondering why they can't dual wield two-handers
The game is built for medium or small characters.

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Hello /5eg/, I had a question: if the PCs attacked a location and dipped out before they all died, would the group they attacked be able to set up minor defenses in, say, 18 or so hours. Minor defences including: Glyph of Wardings housing Alarm spells and some reinforcements that are patrolling the area looking for the group. This is under the impression they go back immediately of course.

I only ask for the sake of not bullshitting out DM fiat to them and trying to provide some consequences to their actions. Any advice is greatful.

>>54541319
>increased reach
Increasing your size does NOT grant you increased reach in 5e.

>>54540937
>Natural Armor
13+Dex, exactly like lizardfolk. I thought thats just how it worked in 5e.

>Rage.
Thats 1/long rest. whoops.

>The rebuild
That's no longer an ogre.

I made a "player" version of "large size" to go with the large races for a reason. I get that doubling your weapon damage doesn't work.

I've got a bunch of other 9-16 foot tall creatures I want to do up, hence wanting to make a version of large size thats playable.

>>54541321
depends? do they do magics? should just set up mundane traps & fortifications and shit to a ridiculous degree

>>54541289
I kinda like their competitive streak could make a fun Barbarian or Monster Hunter
>one of the worst punishments is being shunned. They will not be picked for sport's teams

>>54541348
>13+Dex, exactly like lizardfolk. I thought thats just how it worked in 5e.
and therein lies the problem, you don't know how 5e works, until you do, you have no business homebrewing anything.

>>54541281
>Several races
There's about two, and they're not well done.

>I mean the opposite.
Then my point stands: reword it so that it's clear.

>What does rage damage have to do with carrying capacity or reach?
It's too much to give them. Scrap it.

>>54541239
>Isn't all racial natural armor in 5e just 13+dex, or armor, whatever is higher, add shield AC if desired?
>>54541348
>13+Dex, exactly like lizardfolk. I thought thats just how it worked in 5e.

Considering that literally only one race in 5e has natural armor, you shouldn't be drawing conclusions from that single example. It's like telling a Monk that their Unarmored Defense has to be Dex+Con because the Barbarian has it and that's how it works for them.

>>54541266
In races of stone I vaguely remember thinking they seemed like more human-looking Gorons from Zelda, and I don't think they've really added much to them since. They're kind of screwed in regards to fluff since they were made long after pretty much every official setting.

>>54541356
Yeah, Barbarians and Paladins are great classes for 5e Goliaths

>>54541059
>Powerful Build + Reach + 10 foot footprint is broken
>but Powerful Build + Reach is fine.
Can you explain this one to me?

The natural armor is same as lizardfolk. as it was the only example I could find I just assumed that it was like "darkvision" and thats how it worked on everyone in this edition.

And yes, Ice Spire is better than the other two. I wasn't sure whether I should be toning down Ice Spire or beefing up the other two, so I just went with matching the older source material as best I could with 5e numbers.

My full descriptions included those things, but I truncated shit to fit all three of them into a 2000 character post limit, which, otherwise, each one comes out to around 1900 characters.

I'm trying to come up with small little RP encounters for the party who's traveling for half a month. I wanna pad some changes in scenery along with some small interesting characters, basically so I don't just say, "You travel for 15 days, it goes from cold to a little hotter, you're at your destination now".

What could be some small interesting hooks?

I've already got:

The strange traveling salesman who's magic items might not be entirely legit.

Finding other adventurers and sharing a drink.

>>54541344
It does in the case I'm citing.

>>54540714
>When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.

It's also why I didn't mention increased weapon damage: because the case we're discussing specifically states you don't get it here.

You also ignored and dismissed everything else I wrote (which is also all true) just to say one minor point is wrong (which is wasn't). Fact is, a perma-large character is broken.

>>54541435
A lot of people have pointed out various things like grappling or body blocking huge creatures or needing to squeeze into smaller spaces. Maybe read the thread.

>>54541435
Enlarge spell, makes all races Large size, makes your homebrew Huge size.

>>54541248
It's more like coming up with a feat that makes using a Flail with both hands/nothing in your other hand a better option than just using a maul with +2 str. Except moreso, because +2 Dex has more secondary benefits than +2 strength. Crossbow expert has to balance against using a better weapon and taking a better ASI benefit. Like, as an example:

At level 5, a fighter with archery fighting style can have 16 Dex and crossbow expert with a hand crossbow or 18 dex and a longbow.

The Hand Crossbow does ~14.175 damage on a normal round, 23.625 with action surge at 5'-30'

The longbow does ~13.2 damage on a normal round, ~26.4 with action surge at 10'-150'. And has +1 AC, Initiative, Dexterity saves, Stealth, and Acrobatics.

It's only when you already have 20 dex anyway and/or combine it with sharpshooter that it's even good, for a fighter. Of course it's questionable whether it's overpowered.

>>54541305
Taking disadvantage? Very little.

>>54541435
>but Powerful Build + Reach is fine.
Now you don't have to rework all your maps and armor and weapons to accommodate a fatass.

>>54541483
>not reworking every location, item, and npc in your game to accommodate that one guy's special snowflake character
What are you, a shitty DM? Respect my player agency

>>54541078
Oh. Thanks for the tip.

Okay.

So with that taken into consideration:

Why are people flipping their shit over what is mechanically just powerful build + 10 foot footprint?

>>54541316
Can a medium creature be 10 feet tall, and weigh 700 lbs?
How about filling a 10 foot footprint?

And then all of the secondary characteristics they lack. Do Goliaths have darkvision? Are there goliaths without cold resistance?

I'm a DM building content to cover in-setting creatures. I'm going to want those creatures to:
A) Have stats that line up with what they should have in-setting as much as is mechanically feasible, while
B) Being balanced enough to be replayable.

Get your "T-Rex? Just Refluff Tiger" bullshit out of here.

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>>54541445
Here's something I adapted from Adventures in Middle Earth.

>>54541564
>Why are people flipping their shit over what is mechanically just powerful build + 10 foot footprint?
You've had this answered for you recently.

>>54541467
>>54541471
>>54541483

>Can a medium creature be 10 feet tall, and weigh 700 lbs?
Considering playable Goliaths and Minotaurs are Medium, sure.

>>54541472
>It's more like coming up with a feat that makes using a Flail with both hands/nothing in your other hand a better option than just using a maul with +2 str.

Still ridiculous. A stronger guy with a bigger weapon should absolutely do more damage than a weaker guy with a smaller one.

Same story with a more dextrous guy using a better bow.

>>54541316
Attacks can critically fail.
>>54541348
"I thought that's just how it worked in 5e"
You were wrong.

Took dueling with a flail, how retarded does a flail look in duels

>>54541652
Only as retarded as its wielder

>>54541652
looks pretty dumb til you smash your opponent into paste

>>54541564
>Can a medium creature be 10 feet tall, and weigh 700 lbs?
>How about filling a 10 foot footprint?
>And then all of the secondary characteristics they lack. Do Goliaths have darkvision? Are there goliaths without cold resistance?
>I'm a DM building content to cover in-setting creatures. I'm going to want those creatures to:
>A) Have stats that line up with what they should have in-setting as much as is mechanically feasible, while
>B) Being balanced enough to be replayable.
>Get your "T-Rex? Just Refluff Tiger" bullshit out of here.

Here's the problem, numb-nuts, you're needlessly creating something where the work is already done for you, on top of that, you're not even doing it well.
You don't need to house rule a "Lucerne Hammer", you already have a "halberd" just change "slashing" to "bludgeoning" and call it a day. Same principle goes for your Ogres, you don't need to reinvent it, just splash a little something onto what preexists, or swap out an ability. This is the reason homebrewers are so hated in the 5eg threads.

>>54541351
Ah, that sounds good too. They do magic, yes. Only some mind you, so I didn't know what I could do. Making ridiculous amounts of traps sounds choice though. Thanks, anon.

>>54541623
What if Flail mastery did it by giving you the ability to reroll one missed attack each turn? There's a lot of ways to achieve higher average damage, and even more ways to quantify "better".

>>54541676
just prepare a billion caltrops on a floor of ball bearings with manned bowmen in fortifications at every single doorway who fall back if the party gets anywhere near close

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Has anyone here used the player character creation for making enemies? How well does it work?
Pic related, it's a monk I want to use as an enemy

>>54541647
>Attacks can critically fail.
no, they can't. Rolling a one is an automatic miss. It does not "critically fail" it simply "fails"

unlike a roll of a 20, there is no difference between missing on a 1 and just missing.

>>54541707
CR is broken anyway, a PC roll can't be too much worse

>>54541707
Don't ever do that.

>>54541674
This guy gets it.

>>54541707
Player characters are not balanced for fighting other player characters. Just take 2-3 of the Monk abilities you want to use and attach them to something from the MM

>>54541707
No reason to do that, and it's dumb. Take a statblock from the MM or Volo's and use it.

Use the stat block from the Githzerai in the monster manual and use your discretion to power it up/down as needed. If you feel it lacks a Monk flair, give it an ability like Deflect Missles or something.

>>54541600
Thanks Anon this is perfect

>>54541754
but they aren't fighting PCs, they're fighting parties

>>54541707
There's a martial artist statblock in volo's guide. It's CR 3 but you can give them more features from the PHB monk if you want to buff it.

>>54541674
>>54541744
Every day this general gets people wanting to homebrew bullshit for no reason when fucking anything can just be created by editing an existing thing a little bit

>>54541707
If you want to murder somebody in half a turn that's a great choice.

>>54541754

I see this said a lot, that PC stats don't work on enemies/NPCs/monsters but I'm really not sure why. Can anyone explain?

>>54541620
>>Can a medium creature be 10 feet tall, and weigh 700 lbs?
>Considering playable Goliaths and Minotaurs are Medium, sure.
No, 8 feet is the cap on medium creatures.

>>54541707
Not too well. The resulting "boss" was a total glass cannon.

>>54541769
Okay.

Imagine an enemy where each hit forces a high DC constitution save to not be stunned - which costs you a turn and makes every other enemy have advantage on attacks against you.

This enemy get 4 attacks.

>>54541885
That doesn't sound all that bad depending on level. The game already has spellcaster enemies that can kill you on a failed save.

>>54540824
Damn I like this one

>>54541872
>I see this said a lot, that PC stats don't work on enemies/NPCs/monsters but I'm really not sure why. Can anyone explain?
several reasons, firstly, PCs are designed to do high amounts of damage due to monsters having much higher HP values than PCs (either solo or collectively), secondly, PCs have access to several forms of crowd control. Against the DM that's not so bad, he gets to control several monsters at once, and SHOULD be aiming for PC success, not failure. Players, on the other hand, only have one character (usually), if that character is stunned or unconscious, that player is essentially out of the game until the situation is resolved.

>>54541319
Guy who posted the ogre:

>Can't block small creatures, CAN block huge creatures.
Forgot about that.
>Can Grapple Huge Creatures.
True, but how why is that such a huge deal.
>Enlarge makes you huge.
Point. Maybe nerf the spell if you're going to have large Races, so it can't make you larger than large?
>Gotta Squeeze through stuff.
Yep. This one I'm okay with.
>Can't wear normal armor.
They'll have to buy stuff made for their size.
>Cover
They will have a harder time finding it.
>And Mounts
They probably will not have a mount. Have to sit in the cart.
>How much they eat
Yes this is a thing but how is it going to break the game?
>Weapon Sizes.
Group has a table-houserule on weapon sizes as-is, forgot to mention it. Because they wanted halfling-sized polearms, and wanted sized-weapons to match their sized armor.
>>The Heavy weapon property has no effect. If you're using a weapon that designed for a creature of a different size than you, you have disadvantage on attack rolls (full stop). Reach weapons designed for small or smaller creatures grant no benefit from the reach property.

So the Ogre uses Large-Sized greatswords, in 2 hands, with no increase in damage.

You brought up some good points.

I'm not running a dungeon crawling campaign for small or medium creatures, so squeezing won't come up a whole lot, and the Paladin can actually use a mount.

>>54541872
They wouldn't survive a single turn, characters built using PC creation rules have much higher damage and much lower HP pools than statblock built NPC's.

>>54541878
So just say these ogres are 8 feet at the most and thus Medium sized.

>>54541982
But anon! what about my boner for large races?

>>54541996
But anon! What about my consideration for coconuts?

>>54542018
depends, do you have a bunch of them? Are they lovely?

>>54541949
>you have to house rule a bunch of things and alter your setting and basically turn everything on its head to accommodate for a playable large race
This is the problem everyone is having, and it's a very valid critique.

>>54541996
Having a bone for large races is fine, just make the boner Medium sized with Powerful Build.

>>54541364
You have an example of natural armor that uses a different formula to point me to? Or are you just gonna throw around ad-hominems based on trying to find a way to homebrew into a 2000 character limit, and thus removing descriptive text of rules for the sake of brevity?

>>54541620
Goliaths are 7 feet tall and half the weight.
The only PC minotaurs available are not the standard kind, but the Dragonlance variety, which are their own weird thing.

>>54541483
Is it really reworking if I'm setting up all of the available races before they start building characters, which will be a month before session 1?

>>54541674
Mental-gymnastics refluffing is cancer. It's not a drow if mechanically it's a halfling.

>Take whats there and make a slight change!
Changing slashing to bludgeoning is great. That's what you are throwing a shitfit at me over though. Taking bugbear, changing goblin for giant, and trading surprise attack for a 10-foot footprint and trading sneaky for natural armor as per lizardfolk.

When creating your character, you have the choice of dropping two of your race, class, or background proficiencies for the benefit of gaining Expertise in one other skill of your choice that you are already proficient in. If you gain Expertise as a class feature later, you cannot use it on the skill you choose here (no "quadruple proficiency").

Would the above option be a balanced way to allow knowledgable specialist characters? Should I reduce the trade to just one dropped skill?

>>54541949
>Grapple huge creatures
You'll see the problem once your players start posting shitty dragon-wrestling greentexts

>Halfing weapons do same amount of damage as ogre equivalent
Balanced, perhaps, but also dumb.

>>54541949
>I'm not running a dungeon crawling campaign for small or medium creatures, so squeezing won't come up a whole lot
So you are going to make your PC's large sized and scale everything up to accommodate them, and somehow, this makes more sense to you than to just make them medium size?

>>54542093
a powerful boner?

>>54542111
>You have an example of natural armor that uses a different formula to point me to? Or are you just gonna throw around ad-hominems based on trying to find a way to homebrew into a 2000 character limit, and thus removing descriptive text of rules for the sake of brevity?
yeah, basically everything in the monster manual that doesn't wear armor has "natural armor." Literally the second monster in the monster manual "Aboleth" has natural armor. You would have had to look at no more than two monsters.
>Mental-gymnastics refluffing is cancer. It's not a drow if mechanically it's a halfling.
you half right, the problem is you are still retarded, no one is telling you to use a halfing as a template for a drow, we're telling you to use an ELF as a template for a drow. Also, 90% of what makes a drow a drow is the social context, not the mechanics. You already have something that is almost exactly the same, mechanically, we are telling you to at the very least START there.

>>54542123
Why not use UA Skill feats, though?

>>54542111
>The only PC minotaurs available are not the standard kind, but the Dragonlance variety, which are their own weird thing.
And there's no good reason your playable ogres can't be "not the standard kind." You could make them a little shorter, a little lighter, and say they're medium.

I mean, it is fiction. Ogres don't really exist.

>>54542222

I'd like players to create dedicated specialist characters, or characters whose starting skills reflect specific training, without depending on a feat (and, by extension, needing to be a variant human).

Skill feats would still be on the table for additional skill.

>>54542164
>You'll see the problem once your players start posting shitty dragon-wrestling greentexts
I accidently "grappled" a dragon once in 4e
It ended with me falling about ten stories to my almost doom

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>>54541949
>>54542208
>So you are going to make your PC's large sized and scale everything up to accommodate them, and somehow, this makes more sense to you than to just make them medium size?
I don't think he realizes how big a large creature is when it comes to D&D.

In D&D, a large creature takes up a 2x2 spaces. One large creature takes up as much space as a four person party, except unlike a 4 person party, they can't split up. Medium, large, and huge size creatures can't move through them, and considering their size, it's going to be easy for one of them to block enemies from even reaching your other party members. Allies can move through you, but only as difficult terrain. A lot of rooms in dungeons simply aren't big enough to accommodate them for a fight, and that's not even considering the fact that, in basic hallways and passageways, they're going to have to squeeze, and things get super fucked if they're forced to fight in that hallway because now you have this big block that can't move quickly and can't hardly do anything.

And I'm only talking about one large size character in the party here. Imagine a full party of large size creatures trying to go through the dungeon in pic related.

But oh, okay, we'll just do open fields where there's plenty of room. Well, that just highlights another problem: because a large size character is 2x2, enemies have a lot more space to position for melee attacks. A normal medium or small character has eight spaces around them. For a large character, they have 12. That's 12 enemies pounding away at your fat ass.

>>54542327
No, you didn't. Don't lie on the Internet, jackass.

>>54542483

I you'r surrounded b 8 enemies you're fucked anyway though. Rest of your post is spot on.

>>54542268
Some DMs don't want to arbitrarily add more and more races to their world. Even if it's not a homebrew setting, at some point DMs just want to say "ok, enough with all of these races that I never had any intention of using. Play a fucking dwarf."

>>54542327
>almost
Shame

I'm thinking of just giving character's levels based on number of sessions played rather than XP gained. Is it reasonable to say "1-4 takes 1 session per level, 4-8 is 2 sessions per level, 8-12 is 3 sessions per level"?

>>54542483
>I don't think he realizes how big a large creature is when it comes to D&D.
Considering his fetish for "muh 10-foot footprint" I think he does. If everyone stopped feeding the Medium sized troll with Powerful Build, that'd be great.

>>54542164
My players don't visit or post on 4chan, so that won't be a problem. (One visits occasionally but only lurks).

>Large creatures *SHOULD* do extra damage, because it makes sense!
Yeah, I can see that. Maybe I'll give them a Large Creature damage multiplier alternative to extra attack, designed to match the same average damage output with fewer attacks.

>>54542208
I never run dungeon crawl centric campaigns, I got tired of sticking to that particular formula back in 2004. If they are in a dungeon, that might make up 15% of the campaign. When they are in dungeons I slap the dungeon together with foam tiles, which are typically 3x3, but occasionally 2x2. There may be the occasional secret door they dont fit in, where medium creatures would have to squeeze, and they'll have to squeeze when passing through doorways. But this one will have minimal impact in the campaigns I run.

>You already have something close, why not start there?
I did. I started with Bugbear, and made a handful of adjustments.

>>54542268
If I was homebrewing a custom setting, maybe I would do that. I'm trying to make content from an existing setting (Forgotten Realms in this case) playable in 5e, for a monstrous campaign; and therefore looking to make playable balanced versions of creatures that exist in-setting.

>>54542483
>Tight Dungeons
See above; in my particular case it won't be an issue.

>12 creatures can surround you instead of 8!
>>54542521

Yep. I'm well aware of this.

>>54538414
Elements Monk

Coming into 5e from 3.5e/PF, would we expect, bros?

>>54542507
>Even if it's not a homebrew setting, at some point DMs just want to say "ok, enough with all of these races that I never had any intention of using. Play a fucking dwarf."
Or, they might say: "ok, enough with all of these races that don't make any sense in the context of the campaign. Get your "civilized races" out of here. You can play an Orc, a Half-Orc, an Ogre, a Minotaur, a Gnoll, a Goblin, a Bugbear, or a Hobgoblin."

>>54542595
Just from a slight skim read, it seems like the rules aren't inept or written by autists anymore.

>>54542595
>Way less character customization.
>High level magic has been toned down.
>The Tier divide is less pronounced.
>Because of how Proficiency scales, you're gonna feel real chumpy when you make skill checks until like, level 10.

>>54542605
nope, not it's just the homebrew that is.

>>54542509
That's basically just milestones with more structure. It's usually considered better to go by completing objectives than sessions played, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Might get your players to actually show up.

>>54542600
Sure. But even then, the DM might not want you to play a snowflake mutant ogre. Either play an actual ogre, or just play an orc or half-orc.

>>54542629
*now

>>54542553
Do yourself a favor and try to do a test run of Cragmaw Hideout with four large size player characters. You will quickly see how easily the idea of large player characters falls apart.

>>54542501
True, but if you're a medium-sized character, other characters can easily take up some of those eight spaces. With a large-sized character, unless you're in a party of other large-size characters, that's not going to be as true. And if you are in a party of other large-sized characters, you're going to have space issues when it comes to maps.

>>54542521
He really doesn't considering he just shrugs off every valid complaint and criticism as "well I'll just homebrew a rule around it."

But, you know what, I'll never have to play with this dummy so I'll stop bringing up how stupid he is. Let him and his buddies suffer.

>>54542620
All of this is important if you're an autist.

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>>54542595
Math scales more slowly. So while one goblin won't threaten you when you're level 10, twenty goblins might. So you can't get cocky like in 3e/4e.
Martials deal as much damage in combat as casters, if not more - highly-optimized fighters, barbarians, and paladins lead the damage curve. But utility is still much stronger for versatile caster classes (this has the interesting effect of making sorcerers the least-desirable class overall).
You can't stack bonuses, so don't even try. At best, you can try to get advantage, which doesn't stack with itself, ever. Once you're good at something, stop trying to break the math. You're good at it. Let it go.
Magic items are rare. You can't include them in your build because the DM owes you nothing and there aren't usually magic item shops. If you get a +1 weapon, be glad. If you get a +2 weapon, buy your DM a beer.
All of these lead to:
Intra-party balance is going to be a lot better. Nobody is going to feel super-weak and irrelevant. This is objectively a good thing.
Welcome.

>>54538414
4 Elements Monk, forest gnome

>>54542646
>Might not allow you to play your Snowflake Mutant Ogre.

Absolutely. But this thread hasn't been "player wants a snowflake race", it's been "DM wants to build PC out an assortment of races that correlate well with the typical in-setting monsters, for a 'hordes' campaign, including common Ogres"