/GURPSgen/ GURPS general; 3d6 roll under to initiate cultists

What rulebooks would be good for a Final Fantasy-inspired setting?

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>>54532926

I'd suggest Low Tech, for weapons and armor options if you prefer more Final Fantasy Tactics to the main line games. Then Fantasy for ideas about how to run a fantastic game. After that you've got a lot of choices because, well, FF is a really broad set of games that cover a lot of area.

Thamutargy is a good choice if you want to customize magic to suit your favored type of FF, while there is GURPS Steampunk 1: Settings and Style if Final Fantasy 4 was one of your favorites.

If you prefer the later ones with a more science fantasy feel, Ultratech, Biotech and Spaceships might be good, especially if you want to create some airships. There's plenty of stuff in Spaceships 7 that would suit that well.

That said, those are only ones you might want to use. If you prefer to keep things simple the basic set can handle it with no supplements.

>>54533003
>with a more science fantasy feel
Bingo. Going to write up an adventure today, the ones you listed sound perfect.

>>54532926
I'd like to add Powers to the list; with all the stuff flying around FF-style high fantasy games, the increased breadth of advantages and modifiers can be essential.

Action 2 & 3 can be useful for their cinematic rules, noteably the BAD system and complementary skill rolls (chase scenes too).

Fantasy-Tech is interesting and short enough that I'll include on a "why not" basis.

>>54531960
What's with Illuminati University? It's a pile of autistic fapbait and I can't see why SJG would put it out as an actual commercial product.

How would I create a marvel-style symbiote, like Venom or Carnage?

>>54535766
The Possession advantage is probably relevant. It has a Parasite modifier. Are you statting the symbiote itself, or a super using the symbiote? Those can be two very different things.

>>54536470
I would do the super themselves, but having the symbiote as a separate entity makes sense for sound exposure and the like.

>>54534978
Because it's silly and fun. GURPS Illuminati University was basically a setting book about college, but with Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, and conspiracy junk.

SJGames likes to publish games with a conspiracy theme.

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>>54534978
>fapbait
Please post examples.

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>>54537043
To be fair, they had Phil Foglio illustrate it, so the women tend towards buxom an curvy. I still read XXXenophile on occasion.

Why are these generals always so dead?

What books would people need for a Dieselpunk?

>>54539396
Discord, blogs, weekday, not much in terms of creation going on with GMs. Players asking for character creation advice is the majority of our traffic, along with discussion technical and historical minutiae. There also just aren't a lot of GURPS people.

>>54539506
Steampunk (both 3e and 4e) have stuff for that. High-Tech has plenty of TL6~ stuff, which is about where I'd peg dieselpunk. The rest of it is refluffing and changing some mechanics, like, having diesel engines instead of steam engines powering everything.

So I'm trying to build a TL 10~ish setting. I have two of the factions down, but the third faction is going to be super-heavy magitech, so they're a TL 3+7 faction. In order to play that up, I don't want them to just have "laser guns, but you know, magic", so what sort of advice do you guys have for me for the sorts of stuff I should give them?

Ah, as a note: Everyone in the Magitech faction has Magery 0, access to Effect Shaping Ritual Path Magic (Basically the magic system in Dungeon Fantasy 19), and telesend.

For reference, the other two factions are basically a biotech one, which uses mass based weapons and defenses, and then a "standard" TL 10 one, which uses normal electricity/engineering/whatever and makes heavy usage of laser weapons.

I'm planning on doing a Red Alert 2 style game, with players being Allied agents behind soviet lines.
Is GURPS the right game for it? I'm looking for a large variety of archetypes, high lethality, ease of character generation for players, and fairly fast moving map-based combat.

>>54539396
Based on what I've seen in other generals:
-Lack of personalities. Other major generals tend to have a few posters with more extreme individuality (obsessive focus, recognizable writing style, namefagging, avatarfagging, etc.). These guys can be relied on to keep the threads active for better or worse.
-Lack of controversy. Broken shit, old vs new editions, awful fluff, dev drama, and similar features keep the posts coming. GURPS is not a perfect system, and we have a few issues worthy of contention (TL's effect of skills, SJGames's allergic reaction to marketing and business decisions, etc.), but for the most part, I've never seen an argument last for more than a thread. Even that fight over Pharmacy and TL, which got nasty by GURPSgen standards, ended with the thread. On that note, that thread was one of the fastest ones we've had... ever, I think. Shitposts and rageposts are still posts.
-System is antithetical to "builds." Since GURPS's key feature is that GM's pick and choose what is acceptable for their specific campaign, there's basically no reason to post or compare builds, army lists, or decks like other generals do. We post the shit out of potential builds when someone asks for help realizing a character concept, but there's very little of it otherwise.
-No players. It breaks my little autistic heart, but GURPS simply doesn't attract the same number of players as D&D, Pathfinder, Exalted, etc., and this means there are fewer Anons to post in the general. We've got one group doing storytime, but that's it; /pfg/ and /5eg/ are constantly storytiming, advertising for roll20 games, etc.

>>54539700
Magic lets you get really creative. Just for starters, you can probably bend laser beams with magic, magic EMP, have magic factor into agriculture, sex, hygience, and aging, various area effect spells disguised as small charms (meaning it's hella easy to commit atrocities, especially if the other factions can't detect magic), etc.

>>54539720
Large variety and high lethality are two of the big reasons to play GURPS. Character generation is difficult if you don't heavily scaffold it for new players with templates and lenses. For a big bunch of lenses probably relevant to Red Alert, look at GURPS Space. Combat is fairly fast if you use the Lite version of combat at the back of Characters, and just put tokens on a hex map. You can include tactical movement, but that'll slow things down for new players.

>>54539700
3+7? Sounds like you need technoknights with magitech adimantium vibroblades riding atop robogolem steeds.

For real though, I'm not quite sure. What do you mean by "mass based weapons and defenses"? Guns and gauss weapons? Gravatic bullshit?

80 points in guns dude needs to step up his game

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=239055&postcount=216

>>54539812
Ah, perhaps I should clarify my question: I'm looking for aesthetic suggestions. I'm planning on dipping into Nanoha-style magitech AI's and casting assistants at least a bit, but beyond that, I want to play up the fact that they never really ran into the sorts of problems that other civilizations did, and just brute-forced it with magic. So maybe they never developed, say, cars, because "gotta get there fast!" just means you use an enchanted staff of Gate, or you summon a demon and ride it or something.

>>54539885
Biotech faction mostly uses Gauss weapons, yes, though there's a handwave pseudo-science bullshit, "the guns are actually bioengineered animals that generate the magnetic fields within their bodies" thing to make them into biotech guns.

Technoknights with magitech is the sort of aesthetic idea I'm looking for, thank you!

>>54540011
Actually, to adjust my question for greater clarity: I'm basically running off the assumption that the average person is, I dunno, a skill 12 caster with Magery 0. So what sorts of problems can they brute force with RPM, and what sorts of things will they actually have technology doing for the average citizen?

What I'm trying to do is make it so that when the players go into there, there's very obvious effects on how society looks because everyone is literally a wizard.

>>54540011
>I'm planning on dipping into Nanoha-style magitech AI's and casting assistants at least a bit
Then there'd better be some SHOOT THE BULLET and STANDBY, READY going on.

>>54540009
That's been brought up before. Something about the area effect and invalid modifiers being smashed together, not that I can recall. I personally think perks make better abuses than 50-point behemots, since most everybody can afford perks.

For example, Attribute Substitution letting you float something like Guns to Per, and Technique Mastery lets you pump up Kicking and Judo Throw and stuff like Arm Lock. Those are some legal uses of the rules that are clearly abusive. Rules Exemption perk can also be abusive, like exempting you from critical failures with RPM. Extra Option (Extra Effort in Combat) can be a huge boon in games that don't normally allow it.

>>54540078
Imagine if a society was run entirely on computers and everyone had Computer Hacking-12. That's basically what you're doing here. Everyone can rewrite or alter the rules of "reality" as they see fit. I suggest looking at the safe threshold for Skill-12 and looking at the very basic effects - Sense, Strengthen, Create, Destroy, or whatever Incantation Magic uses. People never lose anything because they can just Sense it. People never get sick because they can just Strengthen their immune system during flu season, if it even exists anymore. Food always tastes better, so they can afford really cheap shit. Everybody has half a dozen charms on hand for making calls, or summoning a servant to take things home, etc.

>>54540011
Yeah I'm thinking magically-enhanced knights in ultra-heavy power-armor with magitech swords, battlefield wizards, and--if you want to bring the TL3 base to the forefront--peasant levies right out of the Stalingrad Playbook. If you're thinking of army-vs-army stuff, the faction would rely more on individual hero units than general infantry, and archmages can be one-man flying C3I artillery. With magic, flexibility is always going to be the faction's biggest strength.

>>54540078
Effect Shaping RPM allows taking extra time, correct? This would mean everyday people probably use magic as a backup; flipping a light switch or lighting a candle would be the norm, but people can always cast Light if they really need to. Military mages would probably be a bit more trained and able to work together to cast major spells; disrupting casting circles replaces preventing missile launches.

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>>54539812
I feel like character creation isn't too hard as long as the GM has clearly stated what the rules are for this game and what he expects from the players.

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>>54540197
>Then there'd better be some SHOOT THE BULLET and STANDBY, READY going on.

Devices are going to be a thing, yes! Storage Devices just give functional Ritual Adept, Intelligent Devices can give functional compartmentalized mind and can train you, Unison Devices are basically an additional caster on your side.

All of them can give you bonuses to casting depending on what programs they have installed, and they're universally designed to auto-invoke all 4 Deacons for your path (thus the light show- the runes in the magic circles are actually the Device invoking the appropriate Deacons on your behalf).

>Imagine if a society was run entirely on computers and everyone had Computer Hacking-12. That's basically what you're doing here. Everyone can rewrite or alter the rules of "reality" as they see fit. I suggest looking at the safe threshold for Skill-12 and looking at the very basic effects - Sense, Strengthen, Create, Destroy, or whatever Incantation Magic uses.

Looking at the Safe Threshold's a good idea, I really should have thought of that, thank you.

>>54540237
>If you're thinking of army-vs-army stuff, the faction would rely more on individual hero units than general infantry, and archmages can be one-man flying C3I artillery. With magic, flexibility is always going to be the faction's biggest strength.
Playing up Hero Units sounds like a good idea, it'll help explain why PC's are special!

>>54540237
>Effect Shaping RPM allows taking extra time, correct?
Yup, although it also lets you buy techniques, so I was thinking that trained military mages would, rather than group-casting, trend toward picking up 2-3 Techniques as their signature spells, so they can toss them out quickly and reliably. I don't think group-casting grants too much of a benefit in Effect shaping (Make a check to give the leader a +1, so another 10 mana worth, IIRC), but I'll have to play with it to see if it does or not.

Thank you both for your help!

Hey! First time posting in tg ever! Long live kromm!

Can anyone here tell me if sunbolt works underwater ? Should I use the laser rules to add DR based on visibility penalty, and if so, how to assign it deep under the ocean ?

>>54531960
How do i do fate universe/holy grial war with GURPS?
I want my players to be obviously the mages, also how could i restringe the use of servants so it's not just them roleplaying their fucking waifus?

>>54540505
Agreed, but for completely new people there's no reason not to use templates or pre-gens. Character creation is basically its own game, unless you make efforts to tone it down, like Wildcard skills and such.

>>54540522
Be sure to tell us how the game goes here. We could use more replays.

>>54540573
Depends on the GM. Personally, I'd say it's magic, fuck physics. If you want to be somewhat realistic about it, humans can see about 80 meters in clear water, and seawater as low as 50 meters. Let's call that -10 to vision rolls at that distance, so anything beyond it is basically invisible. -10/50 is DR 1 per 5 yards in seawater, and DR 1 per 8 yards in clear water.

>>54540690
Don't know anything about fate, but keeping people from roleplaying their waifus is going to be difficult. Try making use costly, dangerous, illegal/socially unacceptable, or a mixture of the three.

>>54540771
I dont really have the choice of saying 'fuck it' as im not the GM in the campaign where this question came up. In doubt he always goes by the canon, so im trying to figure out what the canon is..

You reasoning is good tho ... I have sent kromm an email and am still waiting for the answer

>>54539762
We do have that 3DPD avatarfag, but he's the only one and isn't always online. And while there might not be conventional reason for posting builds, people do often post templates to ask for help if they've covered everything and it fits the concept. The real lack of people is what hurts us the most.

I'm fine not having constant shitposting. There was that thread yesterday where the 80guns guy took on five or so people at once, and it reached over 500 replies. That was something else.

>>54539396
Well, in addition to your other direct replies, which cover a lot of ground for a complete answer, I didn't provide any interesting prompts in the OP. That usually helps.

>>54540690
Isn't the point of Fate the servant waifus though? Like, I've never gotten into the series, but the little I've picked up as an outsider makes them seem like they take center stage.

Trying to make them not a big thing in a Fate game seems like trying to make mecha not a big thing in a Gundam game; even if you could, what's the point?

>>54542115
>I've never gotten into the series, but i'm gonna talk about what i don't know anyway

Are there any guidelines for creating and pricing gear?

>>54542272
Nope. Best you'll get is "use real-world prices" for modern day stuff. Other than that, you'll have to eyeball or rely on specific item creation things, like laser design and armor design from the pyramids.

>>54542202
No, I'm going to state what I know. If I'm wrong, tell me what I have wrong instead of getting defensive.

>>54542272
On this note, I feel GURPS doesn't go far enough to be considered truly universal or generic. Consider Mutants and Masterminds 3e, while they do have a default gear list, it's all just various powers put into a different form (a pistol is blast 3 or something like that) and then bought with the equipment quality. GURPS meanwhile requires that gear be statted up separately, largely eyeballed into existence and given a fair price, and then jammed into a tech level framework that has little to do with the core feature of the system (the point buy generation). The net result is that gear really doesn't follow the same baseline framework, and someone from a different tech level wont fit into any other tech level of game, which can't be said of Mutants and Masterminds, since all the gear in M&M is just powers bought through a points framework (higher tech gear costs more points, and so self-balances).

As a new GURPS GM I feel like a lot of the issue GURPS has with building its player base comes down to:

a)The way the information is presented in the basic set
b) Relative lack of modern play/learning aids, like wikis in particular.

Help please: Trying to make an Ice Beam spell. Spell should do damage + freeze target in block of ice. Is there a way to make the Binding effect an enhancement on the Innate Attack like Affliction --> Side effect, or should I just make Linked/Follow Up?

Thank you.

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>>54542391
I see your point, though M&M3 has serious problems with things like a smart phone being able to literally use up half of a character's point allowance.

GURPS works far better then M&M3 when a setting has a uniform tech level for the player characters. The fact that a TL 6 person has more versatile and powerful equipment then a TL 3 person isn't a problem, and doesn't require the TL 6 person be given far more points.

>>54542272
>>54542354
>>54542391

Pyramid 3/48 has rules for creating some kinds of gear.

>100 point character
>leave all stats at base
>set aside 20 points for peripheral skills
>put 80 points into Rifles
>now have DX+21 in Rifles since skill cost doesn't escalate
>can take a couple minor disadvantages to have DX+25 if I feel like it
>now I have a 35 in Rifles skill
>WITHOUT aiming I can headshot a running target at 200 yards and still be rolling against 17
>with aiming I can do it even further out, or in darkness

Explain why this game ISN'T broken. The "GM fiat" retort is not an argument, by the way. We are discussing RAW (which means rules as written), not the GM's desperate attempts to make this shit-mess of a game work properly despite the developers' inability to understand what soft caps are.

>>54542630
M&M was built around the assumption that characters very likely wouldn't be built at the same tech levels, what with you having backwards primitives of alien races hobnobbing with the guy who built something beyond modern science in a cave out of a box of scraps. Which to be fair, GURPS bills itself as a game meant to do such a thing with that weird dimension hopping setting where the same characters include greek robot and elf archer.

>>54542391
That approach doesn't quite work for GURPS, though, because it errs on the side of historical accuracy (for the most part; the devs have admitted that pricing on low-tech armor is mostly a balance thing because hard data was hard to come but and was so varied). The Points*Value=Equipment_Cost works for M&M because it's a supers game that really shouldn't give a shit about stuff like that.

All that said, if you're making up new equipment that has no given equivalents you can base pricing off of, you may find Metatronic Generators useful as it literally IS Points*Value=Equipment_Cost and is meant for weird or superscience devices a'la comic books.

Vehicles 3e has rules for making guns that you can convert to 4e, and there are Pyramid article for custom lasers, bows, and ancient to sci-fi armor (no power armor though).

>>54542490
You can do fatigue damage or burn with No Incendiary (-10%) as a base and make freezing the target in a black of ice either a Side-Effect (every time you hit them, they roll HT at -1 per 2 damage they took) or Symptom (the secondary effect occurs once they've lose 1/3 to 2/3 of their HP/FP to this attack). Both are viable, as is a Linked OR Follow-Up Affliction

Remember the ABCs of power design. If you have multiple ways to build a power, go for whichever is more Accurate; Side-Effect requires penetrating DR, Link means there's no relation between damage and freezing, Follow-Up means the freezing is easier if the attack penetrates DR, and Symptom links freezing to total damage done. You need to decide which of the four most accurately represents what YOU want the ice beam to do. If there are multiple equally accurate options, go for whichever is more Basic; depending on what you're trying to build, one option might have half-a-dozen modifiers for it while another is very straightforward (take the latter one). Lastly, if you STILL have options, go for whichever is more Cheap; no reason to spend more points than you have to.

>>54542633
Page 14, third bullet point. Your character is not legal by RAW

>>54542667
>>54542630
And on that note, when the setting was assumed to be inherently at the same tech level (Warriors and Warlocks) an alternate system utilizing money was put forth.

>>54542667
For stuff like that, I just make judicious use of the Gadget limitations. If we're playing a modern supers game and someone wants to be an alien from a spacefaring, disintegrator-laser-using, highly advanced race, his tech is not gear in the traditional sense because it is unique to him--it is a part of his character and his theme, and as such should be statted out with character points just like not!Superman's strength and not!Raven's telekinesis.

From the point of view of the group, is it a bad idea to play as a horse archer? The strategy (Rider waiting an attack until passing near an enemy while the Mount is moving) and mechanics (range, speed, penalties mitigated by techniques like combat riding and horse archery) seems rather complex and disrupting to the flow of the game.
Just for the sake of saying it, the simulationist in me really likes the mechanics.

>>54542667
>>54542688

M&M works only if equipment is an intrinsic part of a character. It's like buying everything in GURPS as signature gear.

More realistic games where people can buy a smart phone and a handgun with the money they make in a week, it's a hell of a lot harder.

>>54542712
I'm not seeing what you're talking about. Not him either, I just want to know why that pasta is bullshit (I'm pretty sure it is bullshit, I just don't know why).

>>54542770
In a roleplaying game, your gear is always going to be an intrinsic part of your character, since you don't stand the same likelihood of losing it, absentmindedly forgetting it, or doing something totally moronic with it that could require its replacement as you do in real life. For the most part, once you have gear, assuming it's not a consumable, you'll continue to have that gear. I've had full campaigns with players forgetting about gear on their sheets only to come back to it long after it had effectively ceased to be in everyone's mind.

>>54542764
Accurate fire from a horse at a run is pretty damn hard.

Note that the complexity of this maneuver in game would slow things down a few times, but once the player and GM are used to it the attack should run pretty fast, especially if the player and GM have all modifiers and the range/speed table open and ready to go.

Like other forms of mounted combat, it takes a lot of set up to make happen and it's a big investment that you might not get to use that often.

>>54542775
>"Be sure to match your skills to your occupation and character type."

You can't arbitrarily assign skill points in GURPS.

>>54542775
It's bullshit because A) GURPS chargen can't be done in a vacuum. 80GUNS works in some games (notably supers and silly games) and not in others (anything within spitting distance of heroic realism); B) Points are not a balancing mechanic. Even if you only gave 25 points, you'd still be able to have Guns-17, which is going to murder other characters built on 25 points. Do you think DR 4 is worth the same as +1 to DX is worth the same as Modular Abilities (Cosmic Power) 2? No, they're not. DR 4 is worth more than either of those at low TLs, +1 DX is worth more than either of those if you have a dozen DX-based skills (in addition to every other benefit +1 DX gives), and Modular Abilities (Cosmic Power) 2 is worth more than either of those in a game where you rely on a wide variety of skills to accomplish goals.

Besides, it's way better to put 20~30 points in an unavoidable, unerring, ignores DR, homing Innate Attack then giving yourself Hypervision so you can target any foe you want,

>>54542775
It's bullshit because GURPS is built on Rule 0. He can cry about GM fiat as much as he wants, but the system covers everything from spaceships to spear-chucking; it obviously requires GM oversight because not everything is acceptable in every campaign. It's also nonsensical and would be nearly impossible to justify in-universe.

Beyond that, it's just a shitty idea because dumping so many fucking points into a single skill means you will likely be incompetent in other vital areas. For example, the character with Rifles-35 can totally eat the -18 to shoot at a dude running 200 yards away form the hip... but he can't fucking see the target because his Per would take the same penalty, and even with the +10 for the guy being in plain sight, his basic bitch Per of 10 is at 2, so he literally can't succeed.

All that said, I do sometimes employ 3e's rules where you can only have points equal to twice your character's age invested in skills; everything else has to go into advantages and attributes. Mr. 80-points-in-Guns would need to be 40 years old and would be literally incompetent in any other area. They dropped that rule in the transition to 4e because they figured GURPS was played by adults and didn't require handholding--though certain asshats suggest otherwise--but I find the limit flavorful and a major reason to take stuff like Unaging.

>>54542914
If points aren't a balancing mechanism, than what exactly is their point?

>>54542848
>Accurate fire from a horse at a run is pretty damn hard.
I'm sorry if I sounded like I complained about the difficulty of horseback archery but I'm actually not. As far as I understand, in a small scale skirmish-like situation (most trpg combat) a horse archer would keep harassing by closing by, shooting and running away until he get a lucky hit, am I wrong?

>Note that the complexity of this maneuver in game would slow things down a few times, but once the player and GM are used to it the attack should run pretty fast, especially if the player and GM have all modifiers and the range/speed table open and ready to go.
Nice to hear that.

>Like other forms of mounted combat, it takes a lot of set up to make happen and it's a big investment that you might not get to use that often.
Yeah, I can see why. The skills invested to be a better horse archer becomes useless once you get into the inevitable indoors combat and even outdoors you might not get a suitable terrain to benefit from it. Throw in the fact that its mechanics requires some getting used to from the other players and GM, I don't think it's a good idea to use this archertype. Oh well...

That said, just for the sake of curiosity, how would a warhorse be bought? Can it be acquired as Signature Gear or Ally?

>>54542943
Points are a balancing mechanism. They're also abuseable which is why GMs are allowed to tell you to fuck off when you show up with obviously broken shit.

It's not GM fiat, it's encoded in the rulebooks.

>>54542943
Hand-holding and/or ascribing general competence of characters within a narrowly defined scope. Notice that DR, DX, and Modular Abilities were intentionally chosen because most games I've been in, those were not all on the table at the same time. Those are three very different flavors of advantages, and aren't going to all be available at the same time. When they are, it's a Supers game, and at that point you can just use "point-bands," say, baseline 1,000 with +/-50% variability. The GM then scrutinizes the character sheet to make sure everyone has a niche and can contribute meaningfully with that niche.

It's also good from a "limitations inspire creativity" perspective. "I only have 150 points, can I make this concept work?" is very inspiring and can let you discover characters that you wouldn't have otherwise thought of or played.

Personally, I just use them for vetting players before going pointsless and say "Be about as competent as you expect someone with 250 points/mystical dojo sensei/x-men in training to be." If people can't work like that (either because they abuse it or actually can't come up with a concept), then they get a points limit.

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>>54543005
Just wanted you to know that it's going to be hard to land hits from horseback. Calibrating expectations. The points in Ride, Mounted Archery and perks are useless when you end up on foot, but your points in Bow are still useful and you can still get your archery on.

This could be very fun, but only if the game suits it.

>How to get a horse?

You can pay for one with cash, or buy it as Signature Gear. Ally is only allowed with GM permission, but can get you a very powerful and reliable horse.

>>54542943
I think he's oversimplifying it by saying they aren't a balancing mechanic. They are a balancing mechanic in terms of overall ability and competency, BUT that does not mean that every character is just as "powerful" as another character with the same point value in every situation. The classic example is the argument against using points to balance encounters: a 150-point lawyer will get his shit absolutely kicked in by a 25-point thug with a zipgun. A 250-point adventurer is equivalent to a different 250-point adventurer but will leave a 250-point merchant that spent all their shit on Wealth and Status and social connections and influence skills in the dust because the merchant is not a good fit for an adventuring game.

Points are points and are ideally balanced against each other, but with a system that has as wide a scope as GURPS has, it requires GMs to vet sheets not just for exploits but also for appropriateness.

>>54542712
>Your character is not legal by RAW
Nope, it is. I did build my character to fit his occupation, which is shooting the shit out of everything in existence. Deal with it.

>>54542775
>(I'm pretty sure it is bullshit, I just don't know why).
It's not bullshit. GURPS is so easy to break you don't even have to try. There is no reason why the game couldn't have soft caps on skills. You're looking at a table for the costs anyways.

>>54542900
>You can't arbitrarily assign skill points in GURPS.
Yes you can. Do you have to justify every skill purchase in GURPS by RAW? No? Then your choices are just as arbitrary as mine. You just don't pick high shooting skill because you don't want to be good at anything.

>>54542914
>GURPS chargen can't be done in a vacuum. 80GUNS works in some games (notably supers and silly games) and not in others (anything within spitting distance of heroic realism);
Then they should have built the rules of the game to reflect that. They didn't, they fucked up, and now that they've made their bed, they need to lay in it. I can play a character with a 35 in Guns and if the GM rejects that, then he is a pussy for rules-fiatting away something that he has a GM lacks the skill to accomodate. That's HIS fault, not mine. I could accomodate such a character just fine, even embrace it. But the kind of GM who runs GURPS tends to be a snivelling, inflexible pussy, obsessed with his own vision of what the game should be, and thus railroading the shit out of the game and banning anything he doesn't like.

Also, Guns 35 is NOT a supernatural skill. You can accomplish it without access to ANYTHING supernatural or superhuman. Whereas the DR shit you just mentioned requires being a special race, or supernatural in some way. Therefore your argument is BTFO before it even got off the ground. Nice try, though.

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>>54543142
Dummy-chan is back!

>>54542926
>All that said, I do sometimes employ 3e's rules where you can only have points equal to twice your character's age invested in skills;
See, this was a good rule. Or hell maybe just a slowly escalating skill cost to keep things in line. Bounded accuracy. Even the worthless fucks at Wizards of the Coast understood how it worked when they made 5e.

>>54543163
Not an argument

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>>54543142
>>54543174
>>54543190

>>54543174
Bounded accuracy doesn't work in a game like GURPS because the system *needs* to be able to handle 800-year old sci-fi vampires and ultra-tech turret AIs that *would* have Guns-35.

Like I said in the rest of the post you selectively ignored, the devs assumed GURPS would be played by adults that didn't need handholding, so they prioritized being generic and universal over restricting Timmy's attempt to make a totally super-awesome broken thing that won't pass GM vetting anyway.

Like, if I ever saw anyone trying to pull this idiocy during a game, that'd be one thing--you'd have a point that the game had issues that needed to be dealt with--but I haven't. I haven't because it obviously runs counter to all common sense AND is a bad idea from a mechanical standpoint (which you also ignored).

>>54543142
>Do you have to justify every skill purchase in GURPS by RAW?

Yes. Pages 167, 14, 172, 48, 487 of the basic set. Page 487 explicitly covers why your idea is stupid and what a GM should do if a retard tries it.

>>54543284
That's the funny part. It's not even a good build, this guy would get shrecked.

>>54543142
See, I think the problem is that people are trying to talk to you as though it's broken. It really isn't. An experienced sniper or military rifleman could conceivably hit a running target at 200 yards, assuming they can even see the target. I'm totally fine with somebody investing that many points into one thing, if that's what their character should excel at. At the cost of not diversifying your skillset, that's fine.

However, sinking so many points into only one skill is just a bad decision as a player. Like >>54543355 said, that character would be fucking destroyed in any situation where they weren't firing over flat terrain from elevation with no obstacles. They're also not at all equipped for socialization, or grappling, or being without their gun. The better reason for a GM to reject the character is not because they're OP in one stat, it's because that character is not even resembling rounded, and is wholly inappropriate for any game where you aren't explicitly doing wartime operators.

>>54542362
He's getting defensive, because you're kind of right. Fate started off solid, but the waifu-shit quickly took over like a tumor, and it's 85% of why people partake in Fate media anymore, especially shit like F/GO

In my gurps UTopia book I'm writing(ultra tech companion I'm writing), I'm making a tech level called TL^

What kind of stuff should they have?


I'm making a bunch of more generic weapons inspired by paranoia. And a weapon and armor generator. As well as high tech level low tech weapons. Anything else I should do?

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Converting some PCs from a 5e campaign to learn GURPS's chargen.

How should I stat a character who has one arm that can become insubstantial? He can partially change that arm back to unlock doors, poke people, etc, but items he picks up don't become insubstantial.

There's the Insubstantial advantage, and the Partial Change enhancement (which makes you able to shift parts of you substantial while otherwise wholly insubstantial), but I don't know how to create a limitation for it just working for one limb.

He has special spooky rune tattoos on that arm, which is why it works, if that's somehow relevant. I'd also like him to be able to make an attack with it that ignores resistances and stuff (i'm guessing Cosmic or something), maybe have it cost FP. If the attack part is super-complicated I'd probably eschew it.

Pic related is the character.

>>54544203
One Arm. -40% (based on whole body being 0% for Damage Resistance, Arms being -20%, and One Arm being -40%). Seems about right to me.

>>54544058
TL ^ is generally used for stuff like Dean drives, Psionics, Magic and other things that don't work in the real world. It's also a great place for things like anti-gravity materials used for steampunk airships.

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>>54542362
Waifu is a big part of Fate, of course. It started as an eroge and the PC could dick Arturia and Medusa in the first game for fucks sake.
That said, trying to reduce it as purely waifu material is a very biased way of looking at the franchise. As a man, I find some male characters like Cu Chulainn, Siegfried and Karna awesome. They have interesting stories and personalities that can enrich any story (recently I read a FGO/Zero no Tsukaima crossover with Saint Georgius that was very entertaining and had not a single romantic plot).
This is subjective but I really like most characterization, even the wildest ones. Gil and Alexander is shit though. (by the way I suspect Kintoki is based on Decors from FSS but I have no proof).

I think my favorite part is the interaction between characters though, I really like to see unrelated characters crashing with each other, not just in form of combat. In fact, I think Nasu's brilliance is found when he's writing about ideals crashing. The last dialogue between Zepia and Sand of Osiris in MB, PC and Karna in Extra and the fracture of the Round Table in FGO comes to mind.

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>>54544521
By the way, the last paragraph also explains why I don't like Fate/Zero. There's no real crash of ideals. Lancer, Assassin, Caster and Berserker has no really meaningful role in this regard. This leaves Saber, Rider and Archer. Rider and Archer talks big time about what they want but Urobuchi kinda simply made them respect each other for that while making Saber hold the Idiot Ball. Go fuck yourself Urobuchi your over reliance on gritty edgy shock value can't mask the lack of wit in your stories (admittedly Kikokugai and Blassreiter were good though)

>>54544203
Cosmic, Ignores DR is +300%. Cosmic, Ignores Active Defenses is another +300%. GURPS doesn't allow you to ignore resistance rolls, but you can add Cosmic, No Rule of 16, +50%. Costs Fatigue is -5%/FP, and it's in Basic. The other three are in Power-Ups Enhancements, which is a really good series overall and I highly recommend it.

>>54544379
Alright. I'm getting 64 points total for One Arm -40%, Partial Change +20%. Does that seem right still? Seems a bit high compared to some other things I've done. I might have to include some limitations for the social reaction or something.

>>54544203
Pyramid #1 has Ectoplasmic Arm, you might get some inspiration from that.

>>54544722
You're missing a power modifier. They're usually -10%. As far as further limitations go, Limited Use, Preparation Required, Takes Extra Time, and Takes Recharge are all options. It makes it harder to use constantly or use without having the time to do so, but if you add the Power Modifier, Takes Extra Time 1, and Takes Recharge, 15 Seconds onto that, you're adding -40%, which takes it down to 32 points. I think that's more reasonable.

Something else to consider is making it (or other things) Alternate Abilities of the most expensive power he has. AAs cost x1/5 as much. It means that he can't use other powers while using that one, and if one of those powers can't be used, none of them can be used. Takes Recharge, 15 Seconds would mean that he can't use any AAs for 15 seconds, for example. Powers, p. 11 goes into detail on this.

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Using Basic Set and Magic, just wanting to see if this is correct. It's just a super bare-bones template to see if I understand buying spells.

If the character has IQ 11 with this template, his skill with Ignite Fire would be 13 because he has Magery 2?
And his Fireball would be Skill 15, right? And because it's at 15, he would be reducing the energy cost by 1?

>>54544765
Neat, looks like it's built with telekinesis and stuff to make it grab things

>>54544691
>>54544873
Ok, cool. I'll be reading Powers and Power-Ups Enhancements next. Thanks a lot everyone.

>>54544989
Yes. To both.

>>54545083
Powers is really dense. I recommend just reading Power-Ups Enhancements and Limitations. Those are dense, but not nearly as formidable. Powers has a lot of crunch and detail you probably don't need.

>>54545188
That's a relief. Thank you.

>>54545220
The chapter of advantages isn't any worse IMO than the Basic Set, and PU: Enhancements only covers generic enhancements, not ones specific to a given advantage.

>>54542633
*puts 1 point into Camouflage*
*shoots you while you can't see me*
Nothin personnel, kid.

>>54542391
You can just stat all gear as powers with Gadget limitations, you know.

>>54544989
Everything looks good skills-wise, but limitations only apply to cost of levels after level 0 (it's right at the bottom of p. 66; really easy to miss), and One College only is -40%, not 40%, so your one-college mage pays 5+(10*.6), or 17 points for Magery 2 (College of Fire Only, -40%).

>>54540771
Heres Kromm's answer

"> Is it possible to use the sunbolt spell underwater?

Nothing says that Missile spells *don't* work there, so I'd allow it.

> And if so, should I use the laser rules for calculating extra DR thro
> the visibility penalty?

Personally, I would not do that. Missile spells are supposed to share a
common rules set, and as far as I can tell, they "just work" underwater
-- there's nothing in the rules to suggest otherwise.

> Finally, what would be a standard visibility penalty for being miles
> deep under the ocean?

Miles deep? There's no visibility there because sunlight doesn't reach
beyond 200 metres except in ideal conditions; it never goes past 1,000
metres. If you bring a light source, of course, it works. Whether it's
rapidly absorbed depends mainly on suspended solids (turbidity). Depth
isn't the main factor except when considering sunlight.

> If its really high ratio of penalty/yards, and the laser rules apply,
> it could make it useless.

As I said, I wouldn't apply the laser rules here. I'd treat all Missile
spells as working at their usual ranges, except perhaps for those from
the Fire college, just because water is the opposite of fire in magical
theory.

SP."

>>54547191
>It's magic, fuck physics
Good to see that Kromm and I agree, although he does it by providing a RAW answer.

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>>54546828
Didn't know about the level 0 no-reductions, and embarrassed by the math fuck up. Thanks.

Fucking captcha better not freeze this time.

>>54547254
Heat/Fire Only for DR is -40%. -20% is reserved for super-broad categories like "Physical," "Energy," "Magic," "Ranged," etc.

>>54547224
Yes, ive gotten so much great counsel from him over the years

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>>54547352
Mistake corrected. I think I mistook the overarching category Energy for its components.

>>54547727
I think you should add magery 0 separate from the magery 2 (aspected)

>>54547727
Understandable. Any other questions or weird bits you don't fully have down pat?

>>54547727
I think it's customary to include Magery levels when writing out the skill level for spells. (i.e. 4 points with Magery 2 gives you IQ+2, 12 points gives IQ+4)

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Isn't there a reference in GURPS - somewhere - about going down to -10xHP because of arrow wounds?

Attached to this post is an image quickly summarizing what such damage would look like.

>>54548082
B419?

>>54548082
Yes. Page B419

>Total bodily destruction, if this makes sense given the source of the damage – 200 points of arrow wounds leave a messy but recognizable corpse; 200 points of fire injury leaves nothing but an unrecognizable lump of charcoal. The difference can be important in settings where resurrection, reani- mation, etc. are possible!

GURPS would be pretty good for an nuXCOM game, right? Anyone statted up any of the aliens?

>>54548408
Yeah, GURPS would be great for X-Com, old or new. Monster Hunters has an aliens book, fifth one I believe. Has a horrific Chryssalid/other alien that I forgot statted up. Pit those against Action! 1 characters and you'll have a pretty hard fight. Pit them against 150-point Action! 4 characters and you'll have pants-shitting terror.

>>54548478
Cool. Any other books I should take a look at?

>>54548524
High Tech, for modern XCOM gear. Ultra Tech, for Alien gear.

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>>54548133
>>54548152

Thank you.
---------

Here is the Quick Reload Perk from "GURPS Gun Fu".

>>54548545
Thanks! It's basically going to be kind of XCOM by way of MGS with a dash of Wolfenstein.

Aliens have been visiting Earth for between several centuries and several millennia, but have only recently become definitely known to the public after the Roswell crash and subsequent alien rescue mission. However, they've been influencing the governments and societies of the world for years, which means that despite the current year being 1983 you have beige CRT holodisplays and the military rolling out the new M1 Abrams Hovertank.

>>54548524
Try Tactical Shooting, Pyramid #55: Military Sci-Fi, and maybe "What's in a lair?" from Pyramid #86 if you want detailed base-building.

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>>54543163
I assure you, he's not me. I came into this thread out of a geniune curiosity in giving GURPS a chance. My only negative post so far was a criticism that GURPS doesn't go far enough in making gear totally generic and under a build framework, and some secondary posts relating to that.

He's actually replying to a post of mine.

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>>54549103
You can't fool me, dummy-chan.

>>54549103
What are you trying to communicate here? If you didn't post >>54543142 then nobody called you Dummy-chan.

In any case you might have missed the point of anonymous posting. It doesn't matter if someone mistook you for Dummy-chan, just ignore it and move on. Nobody will think you are Dummy-chan in the future if you don't act like a retard that never learned to read.

Are two handed axes in Low Tech fixed in Eratta anywhere? They are much worse then pole-arms for some reason.

>>54549885
Two-handed axes are shit weapons IRL. They're meant for felling trees, not people Polearms are designed to be weapons that fell people, not trees.

>>54549924
Except 1) Nothing indicates that it's woodchopping axe and 2) the only difference would be shape of the blade.
Which makes it weird that heavy as fuck axe deals the same damage as dueling halberd of the same length.

>>54549924
Daneaxes were used far longer, and far more effectively, then halbrids ever were. Certainly no king ever used a halbrid.

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Honestly, I'm not impressed by GURPS' treatment of arms and armor.
I just get the impression they did a lot of thinking, but not a lot of research.

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>>54549994
I'm going to assume you're talking about the fantastical double-headed great axe (pic related). They do sw+4 cut, have 1, 2* reach, 0U parry, weigh 8 lbs., and have ST12 with double daggers. Long axes (danish axes) are sw+3 cut, same reach, 6 lbs., and have ST11 with double daggers.

A dueling halberd weighs more than a great axe and does the same sw+4 cut. Why complain about the damage? You could complain about dueling halberds being a single dagger to the long axe's double dagger. Not sure what's up with that. You could always just change it though.

>>54550086
Just increase your strength.

>>54550086
Low Tech improves things a lot, but there's a real halberd fanboy problem.

>>54542633
Oh hey its 80 guns guy! Been a wee while since I've seen you around.

Anyway your argument doesn't work because "GM fiat" IS RAW in GURPS friend.

>To encourage players to develop their characters laterally instead of sinking all their points into just one or two skills, the GM might wish to consider limiting PCs to skill levels somewhere in the 20-25 range.
B172

Everyone is too familiar with this one now, you should come up with a new troll try and catch us out again.

>>54550108
>a real halberd fanboy problem
What?

>>54550086
Basic Set armor isn't bad except for how hard it is to cover your neck. It's heavy, but that gives you some trade offs to consider and that's not a bad thing.

Low Tech massively expands on your armor options and is good if you are one of those people that really loves details.

>>54550666
He's exaggerating. The dueling halberd accidentally has a single dagger rather then a double dagger in the table so it's very OP.

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>>54551301
>It's heavy

>>54551667
Most people don't play Low-Tech games with plate armor, preferring actual fun historical settings.

>>54551716
Huh?

>>54551747
Plate armor settings are boring. I have never actually played an adventurin game with full plate armor, because it just isn't as cool as chainmail and padding, or even a coat of plates.

>>54551878
Weird.
How does the armor break things for you?

>>54551968
I'm going to guess due to its ubiquity in fantasy settings.

Which is the same reason I was confused by the post; he meant most people who play Low-Tech GURPS specifically, not in the more general sense of "most people" and "low-tech"

>>54551968
It's much too light. It totally invalidates characters who want to use light armor.

>>54552045
Interesting there is a sort of cognitive dissonance going on here in that his previous post implies he favors "historical settings" but then he also rejects certain historical realities in favor of a preference for a particular type of gameish character roles.

>>54552100
You can have a variety of game-style character roles in a historical setting.

>>54551667
I think the issue is that GURPS errs on the side of thicker plate. A full suit of Basic Set plate weighs so goddamn much because the torso, arms, and legs all have DR7, which most people can hardly even dent, let alone pierce if we're bringing in Low-Tech's edge protection. Lighter, more realistically weighted plate exists in Low-Tech because thinner is an option. On top of this, LT's tailoring modifiers would be common for those that could afford plate in the first place.

>>54552379
It is my understanding that outside of armor constructed especially for a particular context (later tournament armor is the only one that comes to mind) armor thick enough to be so heavy that it seriously impeded the wearers ability to move simply did not exist.

What skills would I need to walk into a forest and make a dinner? I'm looking to be able to prepare animal meats, wild plants and fungi, identify what is safe to eat, and cook it all.

>>54552505
True, although with history being what it is, I'm sure that was at least one madman that made or commissioned super-heavy juggernaut plate.

It's worth noting that plate armor existed alongside firearms for quite some time, but the form of it changed. The heaviest versions of plate in GURPS are probably there to represent the thick breastplates that came toward the end of plate's popularity and could stand up to musket rounds, which is, coincidentally, when people started trading full coverage for only wearing plate breastplates, helms, and gauntlets.

Like, take a look at Low-Tech Loadouts. The 15th-Century German Ritter is head-to-toe steel plating--the iconic plate armor--and clocks in at around 50 lb. before any modifiers for fluting or fine tailoring because it's only as thick as it needs to be. Compare this with the 16th-Century Italian Condottiere, which had to worry about firearms and thus needed much heavier plate, almost 80 pounds of the stuff; the suit we're shown is explicitly for calvary units for a reason. We don't see a real drop in weight until we hit the Late 17th-Century English Infantry, which settled on thick breastplates and lighter armor elsewhere and got around on foot.

>>54552638
Survival covers most of it.
For active hunting you will need Tracking (to find animal), Stealth (to sneak closer if you want) and whatever weapon skill you want (to kill it)

>>54552638
Survival. Survival is knowing just enough practical knowledge to get by, though, so if your character's knowledge would include more general information on wilderness, plants, and animals, you'd want Naturalist instead (Survival defaults to Naturalist at -3).

>>54552724
Survival does, however, cover using traps for small game and I think fishing. You could, theoretically, get by with 80 points in Survival. At least it's a better investment than Guns.

>>54549994
As per the basic set:
The heavy as fuck greataxe, a double bit monstrosity, is really a fantasy weapon. They are not practical to use. Only very rarely were they used in combat, usually for show or ceremony, and most of the rest of their appearances were relegated to aesthetics or religious significance. Google will support my claims.

They're on par with poleaxes in basic set, and in low-tech, as >>54550105 pointed out, they do better damage than daneaxes. In my experience handling, (and handling) axes, it's right about where it should be. It handles differently from how a poleaxe handles, which is all about leverage and reach; instead, fighting with a greataxe is more like fighting with a splitting maul that's had its material spread out across two bits.

>>54554102
Also, why i can't handle mauls and other greataxes as Polearm Skill weapons and threat them with single dagger cuz now i handle them not at farther from head part of pole [handle], but more wide and at two points?

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I'm sorry, I tried to get into GURPS, but it's just too autistic for me. Too many fiddly bits that are too specific, things are spread out over too many books, and it's not clear to me how to do what I want without essentially reading through all the books and then using a very healthy dose of GM fiat to cobble together specifically what I need.

Any recommendations for systems that can handle things in a more general manner, that still has at least some crunch to it?

>>54554332
Not long enough. Polearm handles are expected to be 2 yards or longer, as per B208. Part of the grip of a polearm _usually_ has one hand near the wielder's center of mass or lower, around the hips, and the other hand guiding. Most polearm grips have very wide spread on the arms that are not possible with a short handle. A maul or greataxe rather requires full swings with both hands guiding the weapon, usually rather distant from the center of mass of the person. If you tried to use it closer to your center of mass, you'd have much shorter reach.

I can say from experience that mauls and axes very much require a great amount of strength to avoid "unreadying" it, per GURPS parlance. Double dagger weapons account for that in their rules, that you can use it without unreadying if you have ST = (required ST * 1.5).

If you want to dick around with a machismo weapon, you need to have some chutzpah. Take a couple levels of ST or Arm ST or something to compensate. Arm ST is listed as exotic, but regular old lumberjack sportsmen probably have a level or two of that relative to the rest of their body.

>>54554582
>very healthy dose of GM fiat to cobble together specifically what I need
I'd be pretty surprised to hear what would actually need this, specifically

>>54554582
Not really because your complaints are basically just buzzwords and generalities, so I don't really know what you're looking for.

I always recommend M&M though. It's a robust generic high-power system with a lot of simplifications because comics don't give a shit about that sort of stuff. I personally think SW and FATE are dick though.

>>54554582
What's your end goal for your game/setting/story? What are you having trouble putting together?

>>54554582
First, have you really read LITE all the way through? It's 32 pages. You can run a wide gamut of games with that, and it is even less fiddly than most games. If you want more equipment for a specific genre, you can get one of the catalogues, like High Tech. If you want more skills or more supernatural or exotic stuff, or more detailed combat, etc, only then need you turn to the Basic Set.

>Things are spread out over too many books.
Literally wut. Unless you need some super specific rule from Martial Arts or Tactical Shooting, basically everything you need is in the Basic Set. Good thing the Basic Set has handy things like indices, a glossary, lists that summarize a section, and is laid out very much like a reference book.

>Not clear to me how to do what I want...
Is it a specific character trait or power? Pretty much everything you need for most every conceivable combination is in B:Characters. If it isn't, then it's in a book for a specific type of thing, like Spaceships, or City Stats, etc, and there are books available that make whacky combinations way easier, like Powers. It's pretty easy to scan the list of traits or skills for something that sounds about right, and look at it.

>Systems that can handle things in a more general manner, with at least some crunch
Honestly, the only thing I can think of is Savage Worlds, but that's a stretch. I don't think you're going to be satisfied with any RPG that isn't GURPS with the qualities you're looking for. As another anon pointed out, a lot of your complaints are pretty buzzword-y, and don't hold much weight without examples. Your complaint also ignores that Rule 0 is baked in, and everything is optional and "modular, additive, and hackable". You can chuck out all the detail of ST, Encumbrance, and combat if you plan on running a political intrigue game. Alternatively, you can get rid of the social stuff for a dungeon crawl, like DF does. Because of how it's built, adding rules doesn't break it.

>>54554777
How would go about letting players make an enchanted item that allows the wearer to jump high/long distances, and fall more slowly? What spell would be imbued? How many points would it cost? I'm ruling that one can use runes or geometric images to store the magic, instead of powerstones, the slow and steady system (except that each mage can contribute their Magery to the necessary energy cost each day, instead of just 1), and they don't necessarily need to inscribe the icons themselves.

Would an implant that acts as a AR display + smartphone be an item or an advantage, and how much would it cost in $ and pts (TL9-10)?

If I want to make a spell that isn't covered in the spell list, but is similar to an advantage do I base it off the advantage, and if so how do I do that? If not, how should it be done?

>>54554804
>Not really
What exactly are you trying to refute?
>because your complaints are basically just buzzwords and generalities,
Buzzwords? My complaints are general because they apply to the entire system. I'm not saying "oh, I have this specific issue that's easily mitigated" I'm saying the entire system has way too many pats that one has to pay attention to. You can't just pick up a book and make your game happen unless you're running specifically the sort of game the authors had in mind. If you're trying to run a game in your own setting, you have to go searching for, or making up, specific rules. Sometimes this is easily done, but other times not so much.

>so I don't really know what you're looking for.
A system that's easier to pick up and create a setting or run any sort of game with, that requires far less prep-work, flipping between books, and deciding "yeah, that's makes sense" instead of it being explicit in the rules.

>M&M
Mutants and Masterminds? I'll take a look at it.
>SW
Not sure what this one is. Star Wars?
>FATE
Heard good things, but not a fan of Fudge Dice.

>>54555074
>If you want more equipment
I want less equipment, with it being easier to customize. Why the hell would I need 150 different melee weapons spread across gods-knows-how-many books when I can have a single (melee weapon) and then maybe 10 different ways to customize it?

>>54555074
>First, have you really read LITE all the way through?
No, I started on the Basic Set, and made it through the Characters, most of Campaigns, and started in on Thaumaturgy.

>>54555135
>Less equipment, easier to customize. Single melee weapon, 10 different ways to customize it.
That's called a wildcard skill. The rules for a wildcard skill are, unfortunately, not in lite. Basically, they replace a wide class of related skills for the purpose of faster play. You could emulate 3.PF weapon proficiency with a couple wildcard skills: Simple Weapons! and Martial Weapons!, which replace their respective swathe of skills.

>Y variety? OMG, books!
If you don't want that variety, you don't have to seek it out. Remember the modular, additive, hackable, part? B:Characters has a pretty diverse weapon table on its own. This isn't GURPS 3E, dude; things are concise. Low-Tech has all your medieval and renaissance needs. High-Tech all your 18th century-modern needs, etc. There really aren't that many books; there are many pyramid articles, and you can ignore them all, if you want. You're making this harder on yourself by not just ignoring things until you absolutely need them. You don't need to be aware of every single moving part of GURPS to use it, because it's all designed to be ignored until it's needed.

>>54555264
>Basic set, Thaumaturgy.
Great! But can you tell me what is at the core of the game? If you can't, then you should read LITE, and approach the rest with a different attitude. I'm pretty sure your answer for your magic item is in either the basic set or thaumaturgy, btw.

>>54555091
>What exactly are you trying to refute?
Nothing. I was saying I don't really have any good recommendations because I didn't know what you specifically disliked about GURPS beyond autism and fiddliness, neither of which are helpful terms for me to go off of. Like, if you go "I don't like it because [specific thing]," I know I need to recommend a system that doesn't do [specific thing]. If you go "I don't like it because it's shit," I have no clue why you think it's shit so I don't know what to recommend. I went with M&M regardless because I personally enjoy that system, but since I also enjoy GURPS, I doubt that things I like are things that you'll like.

SW is Savage Worlds, a system that bills itself as pulpy and good for Indiana Jones shit, but honestly it feels clunky and dull to me; lack of granularity or options is a big fun killer for me.

>>54554765
>A maul or greataxe rather requires full swings with both hands guiding the weapon, usually rather distant from the center of mass of the person. If you tried to use it closer to your center of mass, you'd have much shorter reach.
Yes, Defensive Grip, less maneuverability and damage for more parry, but it doen't help with wide grip = easy handle heavy weapon.

In fact, high ST on weapons is fine and not a real problem, i don't care about it. We use Trained ST [MA:TG] idea to wield heavy weapons.
Also what about SM and using UNDERsized and OVERsized weapons?
Like we can wrap rags to get handle thicker or scrape with rasp to get handle thinner [from professional weaponsmith, not "hey i have an idea" thingy]. And LTC2 have option to use long and short handles (thats why we can have Duelling Halberd)

>>54555091
>How would go about letting players make an enchanted item that allows the wearer to jump high/long distances, and fall more slowly?

Well, going by the enchantment rules from GURPS Magic you can have an item enchanted with the Jump spell from the movement college which increases basic speed for jumping purposes only. And slow fall as well.

In gurps magic and gurps thamatology theres stuff teaching guidelines for designing a spell.

You can use the thaumatology skill as engineering for spells and use the invention rules to allow PCs to create their own spells

>>54555798
Also possible; gadget limitation on superjump and limited flight(making it do the slow fall) , emulating the advantages granted by a magic item. Then in setting Fiat your item creation.

>>54550573
GM fiat is raw 8n every game. Why do GURPS players act like it's special to them?

>>54555798
Or alternatively, just stat them up as Metatronic Generators if the specific spells used for enchantment don't actually matter.

How would you make an attack that teleports the enemy to another dimension?

>>54555091
>Enchanted item
Magic item creation rules start on B480.

Unfortunately, the two specific spells aren't in B:Characters, but there are similar spells we can use to check the balance, and we can adapt an advantage to be a spell, which is made even easier by this article. http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.html?id=5842

Basic set only, Boots of Hermes: Boots which grant Flight [40] (Gliding -50%) [20]. Costs 2 FP points to activate for a great leap.

The rest of the fluff and the $ cost is highly dependent on the setting; if you want high magic adventures, it might be cheap, but in a low magic setting, price for enchanting as though it were Walk on Air.

>>54555972
Warp based

>>54555091
>You can't just pick up a book and make your game happen

This is correct. GURPS is not like any other RPG system I have read or played in that it really is a toolbox for building the type of game you want to play. It just does not work like most other systems because yes it *is* trying to do everything at once. Thats where "Generic, Universal" comes in.

Because of this yes it is very hard to get into, I started exactly like you did; reading basic and Thaumatology and then going "oh fuck I don't get this" and giving up. It took me many failed attempts over the course of a long time, giving up and coming back again before I finally felt like I was "getting it".

Even then it does put a big upfront workload onto the GM compared to other systems because you are not only building the fluff of your setting and telling the players what books or options they can or cant use. You are building the game to you are going to play in terms of the rules you are using to support the themes and feel you want.

The benefit of GURPS is that once you learn it you can run loads of totally different types of games and settings without having to learn multiple different systems and can do things other systems simply cant do at all.

You have to approach it with a totally different mindset.

>>54555972
Are parallel universes a big thing in your game i.e. is there a chance for the party to run into them while they're planeshopping around later on? Affliction (Jumper). If there isn't and it's just a way of flavoring an insta-"death" attack, Affliction with a +300% enhancement equivalent to Heart Attack.

>>54555972
Affliction with Jumper

>>54556029
Thank you for this.
Do you have any advice on how to get to the correct mindset more quickly? How do you keep things you're going to actually use organized? Do you write your own mini codices with the rules you'll actually use for games you run, or what?

>>54556101
Not him, but How to Be a GURPS GM is a helpful read.

>>54549574
Mainly that I didn't come back here to shitpost.

>>54555931
Yeah, if it was me, id just wing the magical effects desired and not worry about the creation process. If its something for a starting character, design it as a gadget with limitations such as "destructible, can be stolen, etc."

>>54556101
>Advice on how to grok it more quickly?
I wasn't kidding when I said to re-read lite. I'm serious about that. It distills the rules into the most bare-bones version of the game, and leaves you with just one hunk of clay to sculpt. You can still do a lot of things with that. Once you actually decide you absolutely need rules for magic, or spaceships, or horse-riding, then you tack it on, and the core game hasn't changed. How to Be a GURPS GM is, as another anon pointed out, a really good book.

It is an honest and common mistake to try to assimilate all of the rules at once, because you will never use 80% of them for any given genre/setting/style. You must learn to think of the basic set and its genre-specific companions not as a game in and of itself, but a set of tools which you can quickly reference to introduce something new to *your* game in a consistent, balanced way.

To contrast with other popular systems, you really do need to know more or less all of the rules to GM 3.PF, and there are a lot of concessions and fiddly bits in that. All you need to know for GURPS is the tiny subset of what advantages, skills, and combat rules you're using for your specific setting. Something like magical item creation is not going to come up in 99% of play, and it is supposed to be an investment of character resources and time. You can afford to ignore it until it comes up, and when it does, it almost plays like its own puzzle that you can solve between sessions.

Page B08 adds "The best way to learn GURPS is to join a group of friends who already play."
No lie, jumping straight into GMing it before having played can be daunting. Took me a couple of one-shot adventures to get into the swing of it, and it probably would have been faster if I had played some games online, first. The discord has some open games which you can ask about. I also found it a fun mini-game of its own to export characters from tv shows and stuff. That's good practice.

>>54556480
As an extension to what I said about knowing the advantages, skills, and combat rules, etc; if you have a mostly complete list of skills, but you're not sure if it is *really* complete, you can ask your players to reserve some character points for unforseen additions. That said, the genre books that are out there hit pretty close to the mark for most major genres, and where they are not exactly what you're looking for, they can give you a good idea of where to go next, or what else to add.

>>54556480
I have been playing gurps for over 5 years and I must spend at least 5 hours per week reading gurps books and I still few like a n00b in several areas because they were never relevant to my play experience so far.

I have focused on medieval fantasy so I dont know much about the rules for action, high-tech, spaceships, and have just now started getting a good handle of the powers system.

I could certainly have mastered more areas of the game by now, but it was never necessary

Theres just so much you can do without using the system's full potential

>>54531960
I'm coming over from WEG D6 and want to run a Campaign arc in the land of Oz. How easy is it to get into GURPS and which optional rules would you recommend?

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>>54531960
So stupid question I guess, but I've researched a lot of places, including the official site and the wikies linked ITT.
I want to begin with GURPS never having played it, and without playing any traditional RPG for many many years.

I've read Lite, Characters, Campaigns and Cyberpunk, but I'm still afraid I'll done goof too much if I begin creating my own campaign. And I can't seem to find if there are any official campaigns already made so I can start with those.

Help me get started with this, guize.

>>54556856
What are you actually asking for help with?

>>54556896
If official ready-made campaigns are released by SJGames, and if so how I look for them.
Search for 'GURPS official campaigns' brings back only the Basic Set book, which has no actual campaign on it, just the rules, tips and resources for creating one (?)

>>54556954
GURPS isn't really fond of selling premade stuff. That being said, Mirror of the Fire Demon is a Dungeon Fantasy adventure, Caravan to Ains Eirins (or however that's spelled) is a middle ages but no magic adventure IIRC, while you can usually find a few quick adventures or seeds scattered around the Dungeon Fantasy books. There don't seem to be any full fledged campaigns though from what I know.

>>54557031
Gotcha. Thanks a lot, man.
That's actually a pretty cool oncept, and I definitely plan on creating my own. It's just that even though I've read the books carefully, since I haven't played anything of the sort in ages, and don't know anyone who can be a GM to teach me, I'm just afraid I won't implement enough of the features in the adventures and it'll turn out boring.
But I'll give it a shot, ofc, at most it'll take a while to get really fun.

>>54557197
Shit, sorry, meant to say that the adventures and seeds are scattered across the Pyramid Articles, not the Dungeon Fantasy books.

>>54554765
An idea that falls apart for "dueling" polearms that are the same size as two handed axes.

Dueling halbreds weigh more, have the exact same reach and do more damage then a long axe, yet are supposed to be more handy. There's no justification for it and the great axe shows that an axe that size unreadies after use.

>>54555639
Unless you are willing to say that the halberd is always used in defensive grip as part of it's style. In that case, it's damage and reach should be much lower.

>>54557197
Not him, but there is also an ENTIRELY premade follow-along adventure for Dungeon Fantasy in Pyramid issue 3-104.
It's designed so you don't even need a GM or a character, just dice and a pencil. It's actually really well designed.

Also, there's the aforementioned How To Be A GURPS GM. Definitely give that a read, it has a lot of invaluable advice, guidelines and suggestions especially for a "green" GM.

>>54557225
Also, after a lot of research, I actually found this.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/cyberpunkadventures/
Says it's got three cyberpunk adventures inside.
It's old af but most of the cyberpunk material seems to be from previous editions, I guess they abandoned the niche since then.

>>54557309
> How To Be A GURPS GM.
Yeah, that looks definitely useful, to pickup on some doubts the other books still had me in. Thanks, man!

>>54557587
You're welcome! Good luck, and good gaming.

Is gurps workable as a oneshot / beer and pretzel rpg or is it too complex?

>>54557924

GURPS is simple to play. It's just frontloaded with choosing which rules you'll run with and building your characters.

I wouldn't use it for a one-shot unless you plan to use premade characters for everyone.

>>54557924
Smooth in play, crunchy in chargen. You could try using the "seven-minute GURPS character" method Mook made here: http://www.themook.net/gamegeekery/gurps-quick-start-character-creation/

It makes GURPS character creation very fast by answering basic questions about your character, which gives them a pre-defined statline, then picking up a wildcard skill and a few normal skills. After that, just use the combat section in GURPS Lite/at the end of Characters.

As for whether or not that's satisfying compared to other games for you and your group, that's a question you gotta answer yourself. I feel like the flexibility of GURPS to play any genre is more than enough reason to use it, since you could use it for any one-shot idea you have.

>>54557924
>>54558400

Sure. I've run several After The End and Dungeon Fantasy games beer and pretzel style by having a printed out pile of premade characters. All the player has to do is pick one they like, pick a name and appearance and they are ready to go.

Otherwise, GURPS, like a lot of modern RPGs with flexible creation has a problem where you really need a whole session devoted to character creation and helping players that can't do it alone. If you've got a GURPS group that knows their stuff you can ignore that part and let them build their characters before and email you the sheets.

https://gamingballistic.com/2017/07/27/gurps-surges-pod-into-retail-stores/

>Good news, everybody! Alliance offered the same pre-order GURPS bundle to their retailers, so we can happily report that the recent GURPS print-on-demand softcovers will find their way into dozens of stores. This means a larger GURPS library at those stores, which should help generate some renewed interest in GURPS as we grow closer to the release of the Dungeon Fantasy box set this fall.

Is it happening, lads? Is GURPS making its comeback?

>>54556101
Yeah what helped me to break through was as you say writing short documents for myself and the players to summarize the rules and help with character creation.

The thing that really helped it "click" for me was making a skill list. Just a few tables with the skills grouped by category (combat, social, knowledge etc) with page numbers and defaults for all the skills the campaign will be using. You can find in the op or just by google a GURPS categorized skill list that helped me start this. Cut out any skills you don't think you need or don't fit the campaign. Then I did the same for advantages.

Next I started a player rules summary that has some basic info (roll under 3d6, only d6, maneuvers etc) and the rules we will be using that I felt were most important to the players from their perspective. Then another reference for myself as GM with tables for reaction rolls, physical feats etc, the players don't really need to know the formulas for jumping distance or fall damage so that kind of stuff is on the GM one. To start I first thought what would be most useful and then wrote them out as I was reading through the relevant sections of the books.

Finally I worked on a document that contains notes for the players to keep in mind during character creation. So here I put some info on the style of the campaign, how much combat or social stuff there will be and what represents a high or low skill or stat. Taken from the basic set book.

>>54559298
Don't call it a comeback. Kromm's been here for years. This is just basic bitches learning that the official role playing game of the Illuminati is good.

Would Unnatural Features (Missing Eyes) still just be a -1, or is it spookier than elf ears or whatever? Character has empty eye sockets, eyes burned out by poison. Blindness is a separate disadvantage.

>>54561234
I would just make him ugly if he's going to let them air out.

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>>54561234
I'd rule for ugly + distinctive features.

Unnatural features is for unnerving spoopy stuff. Like writhing skin and a lack of shadow or reflections...

>>54561303
>>54561234
>>54561683

Makes me wonder, can you take Ugly with Mitgator? Can you be Ugly, but an easy to hide thing like a bandage or blindfold can keep it from freaking people out?

What are the major differences between 3rd & 4th Editions?

I'm just getting into GURPS & want to use some of the older books & resources is that possible?

>>54562231
The differences aren't major, but 4e is a distinct improvement. The biggest things are reworked costs, the removal of passive defense for armor, and the removal of snapshot penalties for firearms. You can easily use 3e books for 4e for two reasons: firstly, 90% of 3e's splatbooks are great for their background info or fluff, not their crunch, so mechanical differences between editions are irrelevant, and secondly, SJGames put out a free 3e->4e conversion PDF, so the bits of crunch you DO want to bring over can be brought over easily.

>>54561845
I personally wouldn't allow it. Having a certain type of appearance is inherently limited to people who can actually see your appearance; it's baked into both the positive and the negative appearance traits.

As a specific 'thought example', you wouldn't charge extra for a Very Beautiful person being able to wear a hijab to conceal it.

That said, if their appearance is Monstrous and related to morphology (like a 9' tall insectoid man with six arms), then yes I would have them take a Mitigator if they could fold themselves down to human size, throw on a cloak and pass as human without a Disguise roll.

As another example.

>>54562231
Use GURPS 4e. Start with GURPS Lite, then move on to Basic Set once you understand the core mechanics in Lite (might take a one-shot or two to get a solid grip).

As >>54562384 said, the majority is fluff (damn good fluff, but fluff nonetheless). I'd go so far as to say that SJGames worldbooks are textbook quality, if not textbook depth.

>>54562231
GURPS editions are iterative. 4th is strictly a 'better' version of 3rd, mechanically speaking. However, the actual differences are not very vast aside from a few mechanics being removed, some changes in point costs, how abilities are built and the different "extras" systems, etc.

Meaning the vast majority of 3rd edition supplements can be used more or less as-is with a 4th edition campaign, with little or no tweaking necessary.

>>54561845
Not really, but I say this because--if you have a wound or ailment large and grotesque enough to warrant a hit to Appearance--wrapping yourself in bandages isn't going to be much better.

>>54562448
Clean white gauze is so much better then an exposed wound.

What are some great advantages for a commando to have?

Especially a superpowered one, like solid snake

>>54563875
Catfall
Combat Reflexes
High Pain Threshold
Gunslinger
Trained by a master
Perfect Balance
Enhanced dodge

>>54563875
Peak to superhuman attributes? ST 14, DX 18, IQ 14, HT 14, BS 8.00, BM 11 is *insane* against normal people.

>>54564073
You could make that work with HT 18 and DX 14 for a more sturdy but less agile combatant. Its good for surviving hazards like extreme cold, swimming, running, etc.

>>54564073
Everytime I see attributes like that I ask myself why the hell SJG dont change the XP system ?!

Yes, the XP system is broken because is a bad choice to put XP in a skill when it is much better to buy DX or IQ that increases tons of skills level.

>>54564757
You're usually not supposed to increase your stats after a game has begun, I thought.

>>54564437
Maybe ST/HT 16. 18 HT is freakin' overkill.

>>54564437
HT 18

Wow you are the healthiest man in the world

>>54564895
If they were a supersoldier like Solid Snake or Captain America...well..yeah.

You'd kind of expect that, really.

>>54564985
Well I have 1000 points to spend.

Should I just spend 600 points to get 20 in each stat?

Be the biggest boss

>>54565042
Naw. Spending that much for stats is just uninspired. You should come up with something you'd have fun playing since you're in a supers game.

Find a gimmic or theme.

>>54565074
Super soldier is a theme, it's not amazing but it's a theme.

I like equipment better than innate abilities, and he's gonna be more decked out than a Slav at Chernobyl

>>54564757
There are rules that address this, not the least of which being GM advice, which is basically summed up in "Make them do their optimization at the start of the game, and make it harder, later." pp B487-488 has advice specifically about that.

There are also rules provided by some Pyramid articles that have a creative way of dealing with it. "Buckets of Points" was one, I think, in Pyramid #65, "Alternate GURPS III". Really excellent ideas there, including allocating a certain number of points for each kind of trait, like attribute, advantage, skill, and having a set ratio of points between them, like 2:3:1 Attributes:Advantages:Skills.

>>54565109

Well. At least you can put

80 points
0

p
o
i
n
t
s

in guns and have it be a reasonable expenditure. Also buy up some quickdraw(Longarms), knife, pistol, and ammo.

Is your guy a specialist or generalist? There's more than one kind of soldier.

>>54565150
Generalist, kind of.

Basically special ops, I'm thinking about getting Guns! at attribute +0

>>54564776
It is perfectly fine to do so. It is even mentioned on Basic page 290. It is advantages that you can't buy after creation (with a few exceptions; Basic 291).

>>54565187
See if you can get a level or two of telescopic sight, and don't forget explosives (Demolitions) and Explosives (EOD), and since this is a supers game. Explosives (EOD-nuclear) Nukes aren't anything to fuck with in GURPS.

>>54565226
So I'm thinking Guns!, Demolition!, Spy!, and Commando!

How do you guys handle equipment given by patron ?

For instance, imagine a noble warrior that has Patron (Daddy) [10] points. What kind of starting gear can he get with that ? (assume low-tech + DF, etc)

Case in point, my warrior was given the opportunit to use medium plate armor, have a fine balanced greatsword, large roman scutum, very fine balanced quarterstaff (ornate III) and a longsword, as well as a padded heavy plate greathelm, but I dont expect to see my family much now that the adventure has started.

>>54565462
>>54565462

For me?

If you have Provides Equipment as part of the Patron (Gives Stuff +50%) or (Gives Expensive Stuff +100%) then you can, once per session, roll to contact your Patron and get access to equipment you might need. In the case of a noble warrior, your father would have personal armorers and blacksmiths help fit you out with the equipment, weapons, armor, ect that you might need, and let you take animals from the stables.

If you just have Patron you can still get this stuff, but only for missions given by your patron or in direct service of your patron, and it's not your stuff. You are required to return it intact, or are required to pay it back.

This is of course limited by the patron's resources. A minor baron with $10,000 in resources isn't going to be able to give you totally baller ass gear, but it's still going to be nice stuff.

For starting gear, I'd allow them to have stuff within reason, like they'd rolled for it once before and gotten to take things from the goodie box.

>>54565462
I don't let people use Patron to replace Wealth or Signature Gear. If you just want to buy equipment and never see your family again, it's Signature Gear.

>>54565881
Don't worry about it. At 20 points a big bucks patron cost so much that letting it fill in for Signature Gear isn't really a problem.

I don't like using Wealth as "just starting money" so I try not to encourage/force people to buy high levels in that.

>>54565881
But thats not what I wanted thats what the GM imposed

I'm using the no-hands guige rules from LTC2. If I ready my shield to my right side, where does my DB apply?

>>54539396
I never post in it, except for this time.

i made a GCS skill library for the Futhark runes from thaumatology and added it to the mega. Is that an OK thing to do? I might be doing other skill/advantage libraries too for my own use later.

>>54567757
That's pretty cool, I'd definitely welcome more libraries. Please do upload them if you make them.

Does anyone have the stats and costs for an ultra light drone, since one of my PC's wants to be an AI and he needs to get around somehow.

>>54568478
Did Ultra-Tech not have any drones you could use?

>>54568543

They are all swarmbots, I need something bigger and not a swarm.

>>54568551
Guess you'll just have to stat one up yourself. Ultra-Tech covers the basics on pp. 26-7. Rest should be easy.

Could someone explain GURPS combat? I get 3d6 roll under but I can't tell how you are even supposed to get close enough to use a sword.

>>54568791
You use the Move maneuver to get close. Keep using it until you're within hacking distance, then Attack.

>>54568791
Don't charge archers or slingmen. Use cover or your shield if you have to cross open ground.

>>54568478
Transhuman Space: Shell-Tech has the Mini-UCAV or something. It's a SM-4 football-sized flying gun drone.

>>54568791
One second rounds can be tricky, but get out of the DND mindset that you're gonna move and attack every turn you get.

Likely you'll move to you target, or you'll play it smart and let them close but ready to strike when they get in reach.

>>54569376

Thx.

How would you stat someone like a rogue trader

Basically: Wealth-incalculable

>>54570537
The assumption there, is that the campaign framework allows the RT to use his money as influence, to use it to allow him the freedom and liberty to do as he wishes. Often, I assume, the solution to his issues are not solvable with cash, but rather the indirect application of cash.

Assuming he's benefiting from a higher power, that's Patron with modifiers for "unlimited monetary / equipment granted" or the like

>>54570698
Patron: my incalculable wealth

Heh

>>54570743
Actually that's not that far off. Rogue Traders are more than just dudes with stupid amounts of dosh. They are part of a dynasty, and as such have a huge network of favors, debts, and similar relationships built up over the generations the trader's ancestors wheeled and dealed.

Small technical question: the robofacs and fabricators of Ultra-tech give weights and credit values to how quickly they can produce stuff (e.g, $1,000 or 10 lbs per hour), but doesn't mention using the higher or lower value for any given item. We're probably going to use it a lot in the coming session. Anyone know which it is?

>>54572588

Lower value.
But keep in mind it's a rough estimate of productivity only.
A fabricator is "supposed to" be used to build, say, computer components worth $1000 an hour or plastic building blocks weighing up to 10 lbs per hour, but could reasonably be used to shit out simple, illegal drugs by the bucketload that sell for $100 000 on the street.

>>54572808
Why would anyone even buy one of those?

Hot damn I read yesterday's news release and some of this info on autumn releases is big.

>New DF splat!
>Fantasy-Tech becoming an actual series!
>We're finally getting some Emcounters!
>New Fantasy, Steampunk, Monster Hunters, and Tactical Shooting! Not all are slated for autumn, but most seem to be.
>GURPS Vehicles! But it's a fucking catalog, not a builder, i.e. the shit an Anon already made unless it focuses on different time periods.

>>54568798
>>54569424
If you are one on one:

>walk to 6 yards away from an enemy then Wait on the condition they come within 1/2 your Move. When they move in, All Out Attack. This opens the fight boldly and means they have used their action to move and won't be able to exploit it. Follow up with a normal attack, or even a guarded attack. Get your defenses back up.

or

>Move to 4 yards away and throw a spear/knife/axe/acid at them. Make them come to you.

The reason you don't want to just Move up next to someone is that you can eat a Evaluate x 3 attack they've been Waiting on. If you Move to someone Waiting then they get 2 attacks before you get one.

If you HAVE to close in like this, go for All-Out Defense and close in by Step (1 yard per round) movement. Always expect if you initate combat that you will get counterattacked.

>>54574476
If using All-Out Defense (Dodge), you get to move up to half Move; this lets you close the gap more quickly, giving your opponent less time to Evaluate.

anyone realize how great super jump is?

if i have 1000 points for a supers game, i can spend 750 on jumping.

if i spend 250 on unkillable two, and regeneration(extreme) i have 500 points to spend on jumping.

if i get 50 levels of super jump and a skill of 20, i have an air velocity of 3200745436890740.00 yrd/s

if i then jump slam someone with my 10 hp i deal 3.2e16 dice of damage to a person for 1.12e17 damage, more than a nuke. oh and it gives me +4 to hit

oh and i can fly, 2985348082119 mi.

i nominate rocket dude as the most stupid damage dude.

>>54576157
oh and i just realized id have to be stupid careful, cause i can get into space in one jump.

>>54576157
Dude that velocity is nine million seven hundred and sixty two thousand times the speed of light!

Forget getting to space in one jump! in one second at that speed you will travel three point two LIGHT YEARS almost enough to get you to the next closest star. Assuming unkillable two and regeneration(extreme) are enough to prevent you instantly turning yourself into your mass in fundamental particles.

Also the first time you make a jump at that velocity you probably wipe out all life on earth.

>>54542428
a) elaborate
b) i agree

>>54577042
So the way the basic set is structured is in a very (perhaps purely) logical manner. So while it does make sense to do things that way I don't think its the easiest way for most people to learn. It really needs to, imho, lay out the basic concepts first in totality and explain how things interact, sprinkled with a liberal application of examples. BEFORE listing all the nitty gritty specifics of every skill, advantage, disadvantage, spells etc etc.

>>54577015
Now to think of some elaborate way to jump in space.

Or just don't because there is no friction in space

>>54577176
>Be minion protecting Dr. Evil
>hero dressed as rocket comes in
>hero disappears, Dr. Evil disappears.
>Skeleton appears, grows flesh. Is hero
>jumps out window
>wat

>>54577146
This.
The Lite is really what beginners should read first, as that's what it does.

>>54577276
See I think you wouldn't need lite with a differently structured basic set. Lite also doesn't do everything that's needed to properly understand the system. Plus I found that (in certain circumstances at least) it breaks the combat system.

>>54555924
It's not that it's special. Saying "lol I can put 80 pts into X" and autistically screeching about how "I showed those GURPS players who's boss!" is pretty stupid since it's ultimately the GM's decision on whether you can even build such a character.

If I say "we're in a low-tech game" and you present a character kitted out with grenades, a machine gun and a pickup in the garage with the justification that "it's in the book" I'm going to show you the door.

>>54577146
The introduction of Characters has a section titled "How to Learn GURPS" which goes through the steps to effectively learn the system. If anyone is serious about learning the system, they would start there.

>>54577015
Reverse engineering from E=MC^2
Any force capable of accellerating you to that speed would exert enough energy to ahniallate the earth. And likely the stellar surroundings

>>54577510
>The introduction of Characters has a section titled "How to Learn GURPS" which goes through the steps to effectively learn the system. If anyone is serious about learning the system, they would start there.
This. Niggas need to learn how to read a book from front to back.

>>54577563
You don't even need to read the book front to back! The book is designed to be easy to reference to, with at least 3 different ways to find information: the ToC, the index, and the master list of traits.

>>54577535
Thinking about it now yeah I was really low balling it with the last comment, would it be essentially infinite energy? Rocket man is literally telling the laws of physics to go fuck themselves and probably creating black holes with every jump at least.

>>54577377
Me again
>>54577510
>>54577563
>>54577605
I'm not attacking the system here bros. Even with what you guys have said being true I still think there is room for improvement right?. Surely you are not saying the book is perfect? I'm sure there are plenty of people who found the way the books are currently to be fine for them, but I didn't and perhaps I'm bit of a dunce but I'm not alone in that. Remember also that the people in this thread represent a pool of people who didnt get discouraged and give up and we were talking about why the player base is relatively small.

>>54577636
By gurps he just deals an absurd amount of damage.

By physics he exists in the fourth dimension

>>54577176
Spend less points on superjump so you -only- reach orbital velocity with Extra Effort? Use more points on skills, telescopic sight, and sealed?

Congrats, you're now an SR-71 and can do recon as well as flatten mofos.

>>54577739
I just don't think much improvement is possible. Switching to a two-column layout is an obvious one, as is hyperlinking page references, but if you tried to make it less of a reference book it would hurt it as a generic, universal system. Is it intuitive to make success rolls the start of the "GM's" book? No, and I can see it being moved, but there is a bare-bones explanation of how the game works (albiet lacking rules for contests until you get to Campaigns, which is a serious problem). I can see adding into that a short and practical explanation of skill levels (like 5, 10, 12, 16, and 25), which extends to designing enemies, but that's more of a topic for the Gamemastering section.

I'd also like all of the stealth errata, like fixing Off-Hand Weapon Training, to be compiled into a 4.5e Basic Set, along with rules like Complimentary Skill Rolls, Chase rules, and the Ham Clause.

>>54577739
No, I understand that you're not attacking the system. It's just that the introduction does a fine job of introducing (ditto) GURPS to new players. It's not perfect, no. As >>54578014 points out, there are some little things that can be switched around. We probably will see such improvements in the Dungeon Fantasy boxed set, seeing as that's intended to be a standalone deal.

>>54534978
I think it was actual campaign or campaign idea that happened in the actual SJG office?

>>54540690
Lots of Cosmic

>>54542391
Use Wealth costs to figure Points to GURP$?

>>54557031
They are, they just have high requirements for people writing them.

>>54567757
Dude, submit it to GCS, pretty much all of the libraries are fan made. Next release you could be distributed. Go look at the GCS FAQ and then hit contact me.

>>54574476
Naw man. All Out Defence Dodge, or hide behind your shield, GM might give penalties to evaluate.

Then you wanna All Out Attack Extra Damage Slam them, you get full move and full skill level on that.

>>54578714
Slam is very situational, make sure you don't go for a slam on someone that can hurt you badly for it. Closing in on Full Defense at least helps keep them from landing that first heavy hit, but they still get another before you get to act.

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>>54579472
True. I'm assuming humans on both sides. If it's a beastie you're right.

Anyways, Lite+pic related is basically 100% ready for a full GURPS game, y/n?

>>54579699
I wouldn't call it "full" since it's missing rapid fire rules, retreats, and grappling, needs the full text from Feint, and Move and Attack's skill cap only applies to melee non-slam attacks. It's good enough to start playing, certainly better than Lite since it includes Deceptive Attack

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>>54579699
It's a useful cheat sheet, but references rules outside of lite. I'd say that it's very, very useful to have around when playing, like a GM's screen.

I have never gotten how they picked that picture, though.

When you attack someone, are you automatically aiming for the torso if you can see them but don't declare a location?

>>54581845
Yes. You have to choose to attack something other than the torso, or declare that you are attacking at "whatever presents itself," then roll on the random hit location table.

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Planning "Space Opera" in setting with sailing ships instead of spaceships, Astral instead of Space, small islands (Greenland/Ireland sized as largest and rariest) instead of planets, and RPM instead of nanotechnological science shit and (separate variant) psionics. [Fantasy Space Opera, don't think about spacejammer]

What do with sailing encounters, and how PCs will detect them to avoid or meet them?
Like i see there only two variants -- another ship (pirate/abandoned/trader/etc) or gargantuan monster (enemy/neutral).
Also, how much i fucked up using SP7, ship-to-ship/ship-to-monster/ship-to-fort combat and boarding action?

>>54583601
>sailing encounters
Crib stuff from Star Trek, Farscape and the like.

>A doppelganger/evil spirit is aboard and posing as/possessing people, we must root it out before it kills us all!
>Sail through a sudden and violent magical storm, end up in alternate reality, how do we get back!
>The crew are having crazy dreams and nightmares every night, waking up feeling as if they didn't rest at all, find the source of the dreams before everyone goes insane!
>On shore adventures when docked at ports to resupply and repair. So basically anything goes for those ones.
>Navigate a treacherous and cursed area of sea, strange fogs and sharp rocks by day, fight ghosts by night!
>Find a seemingly abandoned ship floating, something strange is aboard?
>Plus if you can do some geopolitical high concept stuff, clash of the nations type of thing. Or trying to prevent the it through diplomacy perhaps?

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>start of new campaign
>playing a minotaur with a big ass halberd
>slow as fuck (both due to weight and semi-upright), but with 20 HP
>first fight against drauger fucks in a ancient crypt or some shit
>hit the front lines like planned
>first strike against me: hit and I fail to defend
>16 fucking damage because they're strong as fuck
>mfw

Luckily kobrold is a buffwizard and gave me a DB3 shield on his turn.

>>54584717
You play big ass strong character and don't wear armor or you sick bastard GM gave enemies 7d shadow scythe attacks?

>>54584800
The former. I couldn't afford good armor due to my size. Increased price and weight by more than double.

The monster in question got a lucky roll on 3d6 or something like that.

>>54584717

Ouch, always hurts when someone gets in a huge hit. On the bright side, that would have creamed anyone else.

Big guy means you get BIG ATTACKED. Expect to draw most enemy fire and enjoy the suffering.

That's a huge amount of damage for a hit, even for a strong person, something like what you get from Swing/Imp weapons. Also, what is up with a semi-upright minotuar? What does that look like?

>>54583601
>>54584661

>How to find encounters?

Signal rockets, a crow's nest with lookout, psi-telegram able to get messages and distress calls wireless over limited range, psi-radar able to detect ships and anomalies that aren't hiding?

A massive enemy ship hunts them in thick fog, trying to track them by sound. They must run silent and be clever to survive and perhaps even turn the tables.

A derelict ship run aground on asteroids/a reef might be salvageable. A team must go aboard and check it out while the main ship stays away from the astral rocks and keeps a lookout for danger.

>>54584867
It happens. Remember to play careful until you can get armor. Also check out the possbility of cheap armor, it can bring the price down to something affordable.

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>>54584886
>what does that look like?

Like this.

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>>54584886
>A massive enemy ship hunts them in thick fog, trying to track them by sound. They must run silent and be clever to survive and perhaps even turn the tables.
That sounds awfully familiar.

>>54584867
>I couldn't afford good armor due to my size
IFAIK SM+1 barbarian per DF:Loadouts can buy partial (works on 1d:1-3 ) mail ($75, DR4/2*) or plate ($300 DR5), and you always can get only Frontal part of armor for half-price.

>>54584945
We are using low-tech for armor.

I bought a scale hauberk which covers my torso and thighs, and hardened heavy leather everywhere else. Bought em as signature gear and said i got them from my military service (which is mandatory in my character's country).

>>54543142
Have you played Gurps?

What is your "favourite" system?

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>>54543142

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Shit like this is what makes me think the authors didn't do their research.

>>54585521
Can you not read? A "small, relatively smooth object that fits in the palm of your hand" is not the same as a weapon you knuckle-dragger.

>>54585667
You don't think it's EASIER to learn how to throw a rock than a knife, spear, or axe?

>>54585693
....No?

I mean, look at the defaults. It's easier to throw a rock without practice, yeah. But once you have practiced and got the skill? Weapons that are balanced for throwing tend to work a lot better and be more fucking accurate, don't you think?

It's actually pretty clever now that think about it.

>>54585693
The thrown weapon skill is for any weapon specifically made to be thrown, and the other is any small, smooth object. While a baseball is supposed to be thrown, it's not specifically MADE for it quite like a weapon is.

I've managed to pick up and throw a knife easier than a baseball or a rock.

>>54585736
>I've managed to pick up and throw a knife easier than a baseball or a rock.
I don't believe you.

>>54585807
oh well!

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>one of the earliest developed ranged weapons
>used throughout the world, through the medieval era
>you can learn how to use it in five minutes
>Hard, Default DX-6

>knife throwing, meanwhile, has never been useful or widely used in combat, except in fiction

>>54586036

You can learn to use it in five minutes. You can learn to use a gun in seconds.

Still takes a lot of practice to git gud and start hitting what you aim at at an appreciable range numbnuts.

>>54586055
>throwing knives are relegated to circus performances because, like juggling, they're hard to learn and of little practical value
>yes, making it Easy to learn and default DX-4 makes total sense

I really want to like GURPS, but this triggers the 'tism.

>>54561845
Mitigator (paper bag)

>>54586036
>>one of the earliest developed ranged weapons
>>used throughout the world, through the medieval era
To be fair, these are indicators of ease of manufacture and invention, not of ease of use.

>>54586086
You'll be pleased to know that GURPS authors are communicative and often explain their reasoning when questioned. Point your questions at them, I don't know enough about slings to answer myself.

I wonder what the retarded "rifle 35" guy will do once he realizes that he can buy personal zeppelins and skyskrapers in low fantasy settings with a bit of character TL, wealth and a perk or two.

That is, if you ignore the hardcoded "Characters are made in dialogue with your GM" RAW rule.

>>54584886
>>How to find encounters?
Not finding, im asking about detection of them. Means, there everything is in plain sight with no actual horizon and lookouts will get +10 visual to see something because there no bushes, trees and holes to hide like gooks.
Supanatural radars, well, they surely will detect any shit what they will be adjusted, but only in range based on operator skill, like for situation where lookouts eyes useless, in storms, moonles nights and etc.

Is the Girl Genius book ever going to come out?

>>54586679
Right now, Dummy-chan is getting all sorts of wound up over skill difficulty because he wants his preconcieved notions of reality to override other's actual experiences with it.

>>54587990
When Vehicles does.

>>54555549
Savage Worlds feels clunky to you, yet GURPS does not?

RPM question:

1. Materialize spirit is a pure Spirit ritual or is Spirit + Body ritual ?

2. If control effects can mimic "telekinetic hand", then a Path of Magic control effect can lift a enchanted item or is a control matter ritual ?

>>54577510
We'll yeah, but by that same token, if someone brings a divine mwtamagic abusing cleric to a table, the DM can tell them to get lost. This however does not mean the issue doesn't exist.

That said this is goofy because GURPS is a game where you can destroy the world in less than 100 points. You either accept that it's easily broken or move on to another game.

>>54578014
Hopefully with better art.

>>54589308
>destroy the world in less than 100 points
N-nani?

>>54585521
That is some seriously pedantic detail. Even the bloody wildcard skills are more specific than most modern games.

>>54589252
>1
Spirit and material/body. Spirit forced to materialize, so ritual need way to work with what material will forms spirits body.
>2
It surely depends on GM. I'd say yes.

>>54589308
Well, in GURPS it's possible to accidentaly get combination of adv/skill in character or party that can broke game, if GM not totally paraniod crazy YOU ARE MUTHAFUKING MUNCHKINS kind of guy.

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>>54584930

>>54589308
It's not an abuse though. The system is designed to let you make characters that WOULD theoretically have 80 points in Guns. The retardation stems from an otherwise mundane character having 80 points in Guns, which is unrealistic to the extreme. 80 points in Gun is suitable for high-power character concepts--ancient gun-monks, combat robots, Hawkeye-esque supers, etc.--but not for 100 point people.

A more apt comparison would be a human fighter taking a feat from the Monster Manual; the feat has every right to exist and works fine when applied by someone with two braincells to rub together (i.e. to an appropriate monster), and any competent GM would veto that character. Divine metamagic is broken right out of the box, though, so it doesn't quite work as a metaphor.

>>54589353
M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N
look it up
A badly built 50 point cosmic corrosive IA that hits the local galactic center for enough damage to end all non-godlike life

>>54589574
Divine metamagic on its own wasn't that bad; it was basically some free metamagic rods. It was when it was coupled with persistent spell and the oddly named night sticks (A magic item that grants 2 extra turning attempts and can be stacked? This can only go wrong if turning somehow didn't suck. - T. Author). I say it's an apt comparison.

>>54589646
Effectively free metamagic rods aren't broken as fuck? Christ almighty, man, what does count as broken?

>>54586036
Slings were used en-mass, but were never very effective at anything but harassment and were difficult to accurately hit a target with, to the point that "killed a guy with one" is a mythic accomplishment in the bible.

>>54589699
>but were never very effective at anything but harassment and were difficult to accurately hit a target with
Except they were commonly used for hunting, too.
And the "mythic accomplishment" is, if I recall correctly, a parable about fighting to your strengths. Goliath has to be led to the fight, and mistakes the sling for a stick because he's near-sighted.

>>54589697
Considering the same effect could be garnered with gold piece expenditure, I wouldn't squawk too.loud about it. It's better than the feats non-casters get, but it wouldn't dismantle a game much worse than a full caster already would.

>>54589699
Slew the champion of an army outright with one.

>>54589795
Bruh, just because the rest of 3.5 is a flaming wreck doesn't mean this one specific component is any less shitty. Metamagic rods were a mistake. Free metamagic rods were a mistake. Night sticks were a mistake. Persistent Spell was a mistake. Natural Spell was a mistake. Summoning was a mistake. The entirety of 3.PF was a mistake.

>>54589758
No, it's that he killed a (giant) man with a sling, a feat considered possible only with the help of God. Slings were harassment weapons.

They were used to drive off opportunistic predators from sheep and to stun or kill small game. Small birds and rodents are very fragile, and could also be hunted with thrown rocks.

>>54589852
I'm not denying that. I'm just saying, the ability of a GM to turn away a concept doesn't mean that the underlying abilities don't represent a problem. The fact GURPS frontloads extra work on, and requires constant extra attention from the GM is definitely not a point in its favour.

>>54589893
There are countless ancient accounts of people being deadly with a sling. They were deadly, accurate weapons.

Just Google it.

>>54539762
You forgot the part where GURPS is virtually unusable and the only people who play it are autistic faglords.

>>54589975
Please explain how it is a problem though. I firmly believe that the system SHOULD let you put 80 points in Guns because some character concepts like those high-powered examples I gave earlier should reasonably have 80 points or more in Guns. If that character is not appropriate for your game, that's fine (hell, that's probably normal), but I don't think its ability to exist is a fault of the system.

The reason I feel that stuff like Divine Metamagic and Natural Spell doesn't fall under the protective umbrella of "should exist because it might fit SOMEONE'S campaign" is that the system has a number of assumptions about the campaigns it will be used to run, and those options are inappropriate for the vast majority of assumed campaigns (e.g. a party of 3-5 heroes consisting of a fighty guy, a sneaky/clever guy, a healy guy, and a magic guy adventure together and help each other explore a fantastical and vaguely medieval Europe). In those assumed campaigns, those traits significantly throw off the balance.

GURPS, by virtue of playing very loose with the idea of an assumed standard type of campaign, is much more resistant to that complaint. Spending 80 points on Guns in a 100-point realistic game? Retarded! Doing the same in a 400-point cinematic/street-level supers game? Kosher! Spending 80 points on DR 40 (Cannot Wear Armor; Physical Only) in a fantasy game? Broken! Doing the same in an ultra-tech game? Potentially necessary for survival!

>>54590451
I don't feel it's a problem, because this is, as I said, a game where you can destroy the world in less than 100 points; any concern about balance goes out the window there. It is however a game that requires more babying and attention than many other games.

Also the problem with those feats is a combined assumption that casters are supposed to be gods and that non casters are supposed to be exceptionally tough ordinary Joes. The feats themselves aren't a huge problem; the basic assumptions of the system are.

>>54590606
>>54590451
Also my point was just simply that rule 0 is not a good argument; it's part of every game.

>>54581269
Someone wanted eye candy?

>>54589308
GURPS IS easy to break. Any point-buy system where the GM is allowed to set limits is. It's up to the GM whether to allow M.U.N.C.H.K.I.N in his game or not.

>>54590451
>>54590990

GURPS is easy to break the same way C # is. It doesn't try to stop you from doing something retarded and assumes that you know what you are doing.

>>54589337
Honestly, I wouldn't give a shit if Basic Set had zero art. I don't use GURPS to get inspiration, I use anime, manga, and light novels. Those have more than enough art to get inspired by. Setting books should still have them (GURPS Goblins would be a shell of its former self without all of that delicious full color art), but Basic Set? Nah.

>>54591740
Is that a problem? You most likely wont hear someone say "gee I want C# to be more limiting so I don't fuck up."

>>54593397
You might hear someone say, "How can we make C# approachable for beginners?", though.