Does anybody else hate magic item crafting rules in like every

>>54523685
You fucking idiot, the magic users aren't making the items themselves. They are simply enchanting an item that already exists.

If you want the best sword in the game that can smite demons and demigods, then you go to the best blacksmith in the game and have them forge the best sword in the game.

THEN you go to the fucking wizard and have them enchant the shit out of it.

>>54523685
I only know of like two games that have an actual system for crafting. Like I assume you're speaking of DnD/PF but those are hardly rules, its literally just roll over and over and over again.

>>54523685
Anima. Play FUCKING Anima.
Roll a goddamned wall of meat with good Forging and one of the relevant skills to enchant shit(runes and animism are easy for literally any class, Alchemy and Occult are more wizard-ish, but still doable with a bit of investment), make your own weapon, kill supernatural creatures with it, then use their bits as ingredients in the enchanting process.
Abel H. Christ.

>>54523685
Have you tried not playing DVD?

Just kidding! Even in systems where a superlative blacksmith can forge a wondrous blade without needing any magic besides their own skill (like in Exalted), crafting systems tend to be terrible in other ways.

>>54523685

You go to House Verditius. That way, you get a wizard and a craftsman.

That said, your approach could be really interesting in the right setting. Something a bit more folkloric and less regular-fantasy-RPG-ish. I'll have to bear that idea in mind in the future.

Come to think of it, you might like how Legend Of The Five Rings handles magic items. In it, magical items (called "nemuranai") are objects whose spirits have been awakened. This can be done intentionally with magic, but it can also happen if the item is used to perform a great deed, or if it's lovingly cared for and respected over a long period of time (we're talking centuries).

My old GM treated every magical item as an artifact and each one had a name. In order to make one, you needed to do fancy shit. For example, my assassin forged his sword in the heart of a mountain using an ancient magical forge and the heart of a tomb spider.

>>54523685
Pathfinder has a system wherein you can sub Spellcraft checks for item requirements, so you don't have to be a caster to make magic items.

If that Spellcraft requirement is still an issue, however, you can always sub in Craft(object). I think there may even be specific optional rules for that.

>>54523685
>Does anybody else hate magic item crafting rules in like every game? Why is it only Magic Users who make magic items?
Despite popular misconceptions, D&D is not "every game".

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>>54523685
Is that khajitt confused because the item in his hand is not skooma?

>>54523685
>D&D and D&D clones
>like every game
Um, no, sweetie.

Pretty sure anyone can make magical items during their downtime in dnd 5: electric boogaloo, you don't actually need to have any kind of skill for it. It just takes a long ass time to make anything more powerful than rare items.

Back when my group played a lot of 3.X, one of the players REALLY liked to play craftsmen, so I wrote some rules for great better than masterwork. It worked well enough until they were weaned off into better systems.

Masterwork
Craft DC: 20
Cost: +300 gp
Benefit: +1 to attack

Superior
Craft DC: 30
Cost: +450 gp
Benefit: +1 to attack, +1 to damage, +5 hardness, benefits stack with magic

Priceless
Craft DC: 35
Cost: +1000 gp
Benefit: +2 to all rolls made involving this weapon, +10 hardness, +10 hp, benefits stack with magic

Flawless
Craft DC: 50
Cost: 5,000 gp
Benefit: +2 to all rolls, reduces hardness and DR (of any kind) by 5, can only be damaged by coup de grace by Priceless, Flawless or magic weapons (NOT SPELLS), benefits stack with magic

Folded Steel:
DC+5
Cost: +1,000 gp
Benefit: Folded Steel can be added to any Masterwork or better weapon that deals slashing or piercing damage. Folded Steel adds +2 to all Sunder damage rolls, and on a critical hit reduces the AC bonus of armor by 1 until it can be repaired.

Armor:

Masterwork
Craft DC: 20
Cost: +150 gp
Benefit: -1 Armor check penalty

Superior
Craft DC: 30
Cost: +450 gp
Benefit: -1 Armor check penalty, +1 to Dex limit

Priceless
Craft DC: 35
Cost: +1000 gp
Benefit: -2 Armor check penalty, +2 to Dex limit, DR 1/-, +10 hardness, +10 hp, benefits stack with magic

Flawless
Craft DC: 50
Cost: +5,000 gp
Benefit: -2 Armor check penalty, +2 to Dex limit, DR 2/-, can only be damaged by coup de grace by Priceless, Flawless or magic weapons (NOT SPELLS), benefits stack with magic

>>54524959
>gear better than masterwork
fuuuuuuck

>>54523881
Anima is a god awful wreck of a system. Way too many systems that have way too little to do with eachother.

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>>54524201
>>54524749
>70% of games
Close enough

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>>54523685
>When you need a magic sword that will split mountains, who do you go to to create it? The ancient retired warrior blacksmith, who defeated an entire band of orcs himself and forges things from moon-steel asteroids he catches with his bare hands or a fucking magic user fresh out of magic university?

really, really depends on how magic works in the setting. theoretically this could be like asking whether one should prefer an old, experienced carpenter famed across the land for his elegant woodwork or a fresh-out-of-school engineer for building a rocket ship.

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>>54523752

>best magical items are dwarven
>dwarves are the worst wizards
>but the best fighters

A real helm-scratcher that one.

>>54524959
>Priceless
>+1,000gp

That feeling when you skip crafting magic items and instead it is the spirit of the item imbued through action. If you want the best magic sword you start with a sword and do great things with it. Eventually it will tell you its name and you will have a magic weapon.

Hell, even the best mundane blades are constructs of magic in my setting, as magic is more a force of personality convincing natural forces to agree to your wishes. Using "hard science" actually kills off almost all potential magic.

>>54525125
>As Logged in Roll20
Well that's a hugely biasing factor. Not all games lend themselves towards benefiting from the use of a platform like Roll20, and people on Roll20 are more likely to be looking for an established game than something new anyway.

>>54525611
My players killed a goblin so hard his soul bonded to his sword. That was fun.

>>54525861
So what's it do, give bonus damage to goblins and reveal when the. Player is nearby?

>>54525995
Reveal when the player is nearby goblins?*

>>54523685
>>Fighters should forge magic armor and weapons themselves.
>>Thieves make magic cloaks and grapple hooks and masks.
>>Clerics create reliquaries and triple-blessed spellbooks and holy symbols.
>>Magic users make magic wands, robes, hats, and broomsticks.

Master Craftsman
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level. You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Magic Items). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

Welcome to PF where anybody can make magic items.

>>54524959
>Folded Steel:
weeb fag spotted

>>54525369
Dwarves use rune-magic tho

>>54523685
When I want a magic sword that will split mountains, I go to the wizard, because he has the magic item creation feats. Ditto for the cloak.

>>54524201
yeah it is

>>54524749
um yeah, faggot

I feel like that game to player ratio should be a lot further apart. Is the data factoring overlap of players? Like X% of all players play DnD including the players that also play Dark Heresy, and Y% of all players play DH including the players that also play DnD.

>>54525611
wow your setting sounds like shit lmao

>>54526518
It would have to for those player statistics to make any sense.

>>54523685
In Fantasycraft, anybody can craft magic items, and knowing magic gives you no advantage to crafting magic items. It's a series of two 3-feat chains. You can start building items with just one feat, but get bonuses and more effects if you take more of the feats.

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>>54523685
>>54523752
pic related

>>54523917
Yeah, crafting systems are something that no-one has ever gotten right despite trying for years.

>>54525071
Please do not give such terrible advice advice.

>>54523685
What about gathering up magical basic things like horns and parts of magical animals, and crystals and other magical minerals them crafting them?

Wouldn't that work out for non wizards to make magic stuff who otherwise cannot cast it?

>>54525369
Comes from Tolkien yet again where dwarves were a species of muggles but they still made magic shit over and over again without explanation.

Meanwhile mythological dwarfs might as well have been wizards.

>>54528137
Tolkien dwarves were taught crafting by elves. Crafting in general just requires you be very good at it to make it magical. There were no actual wizards, just angels masquerading as old men and elves that sing really nice.

>>54525071
>t. someone scared of tables who's never sat down and played it.

>>54526097
Concessions were made to accommodate certain people in the group.

>>54523685
ENTIRE band of ORCS?
that's so cute

Why even have crafting systems? If a player wants some kind of cool magical item, they should have to go on a quest and/or fight something to get it, not just build it themselves. If the GM is going for something like gathering rare materials to make an item, then the making should be automatic once the players have gathered all the parts.

>>54528472
>Tolkien dwarves were taught crafting by elves.

Really annoying when people who don't know anything talk out of their ass and pass it off as fact.

>>54528137
>Made and taught by the god of crafting
>No explanation

>>54530533
Dude I don't know. I always cringe when I see any crafting shit in any game. No game has ever gotten it right, outside of Recettear

>>54531799
Atelier series.

>>54530533
What about consumables and limited use stuff?

>>54523685
I generally have magic items be made from awesome moments in game, then usually have the players tell me what it looks like and what it's name is. Two of my favorite magic items I ever gave out were a dagger that put warlock used to kill a ghost and a spear out paladin used to redeem a demon.

>>54526091
Why can't they just do that from the start? Why do they have to take an extra feat just to be able to take even more feats to make gear instead of being able to just make the damn shit in the first place? Why can't they make rings?

>>54530767
They were nigger. It's right in the book how they got all buddy buddy with the noldor and learned their fancy pants techniques before shit hit the fan

>>54534773
Because filthy martials have to earn their fun.

>>54528137
Mythological dwarfs are simply elves that lived underground.

>>54523881
and motherfucking /thread.

Hell even alchemy you can do without the gift, the gift only lets you rape your pow for easy PPs (which is dumb as all fuck since you don't restore it. Ever.)
>>54525071
>t. Butthurt castertard.

>>54535923
raping prisoners of war to do alchemy? is this a erp game or something

>>54524333
das wacist

>>54535960
>Rape
I mean if you can distill agony into PP, go ahead.
Sacrifices are easier.

Pow is power, wizards use it to see how much magic they regen/accumulate per turn, it's also the generally social skill.

>>54536388
Distilled agony as your social power is... alright, I suppose.

>>54527752
Great explanation, just wish I could copy/paste the text.

>>54538665
>Go to /tg/ archive
>Search a bit of the text
>???

>>54534998
And here I thought they learned about Crafting from their creator, the God of Crafting.

>>54523685
Stop sucking Paizo's cock, OP.

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>>54527752

>>54524959
d20 Black Company has a similar system, except it isn't written by a dumb weeaboo.

>>54525706
>when you get proven wrong but you're still a proud idiot who can't admit it

>>54523685
>Does anybody else hate magic item crafting rules in like every game?
Yes, i do. I hate crafting in heroic games. And most others as well, DESU.

I like the way unknown armies does magic items, if an item is used for a symbolically powerful act it becomes magic, the magic bullet that killed JFK, a piece of the true cross, or the telephone that Roosevelt used to order the droping of the atomic bomb are examples of epic level magical items.

>>54523685
To be frank dnd rules for crafting are designed for a system in which crafting was never supposed to be part of the equation.

Dnd has usually been about an attempt at balance in cooperative play, which inevitably goes awry as the player base who outnumber the play testers tend to find ways to exploit the system.

If you want to make magic items, do something suitably heroic like wrestle a star out of the sky, or charm the web out of Llothe, or distill the essence of a thousand martyrs into a single gem in a way granted to you in a dream by the god of suffering and sacrifice.

Net the rolling stone of judgement as it barrels down at you, shrinking it into a small bowl, which you gift to the god of cats to drink his milk from the mother goddess of cattle out of and bam you get a boon of the cat god.

ITS A FUCKING RPG, if you don't like it, change it! You have infinite control over what happens in the game limited to your creativity!

The crafting rules are autistic for a reason anon, they were grafted in to popular demand for a system not designed for it.

Just... use your imagination man. Fuck...

>>54540484
>You have infinite control over what happens in the game limited to your creativity!
Yeah! Let's all play freeform!

>>54538862
And the elves went to heaven and learned even more, because tolkien has a boner for making elves awesome at everything

>>54523685
Wow, finally someone says it.

>>54527752
Sure, but why do you need gold and not mana or some other more useful catalyst like wood or Lyrium powder?

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>>54530533
>>54531799
A good crafting system demands you prepare for the next encounter by making good use of your current resources.

A good crafting makes it outright vital to slather yourself in stat boosters to do well at all in combat.

It also keeps the game moving with several smaller goals rather than one big goal. Forces you to choose on the most optimal path to scavenge the materials you need to face the upcoming challenges. Gives decision making to the game without outright spelling ''right or left''?

If you compared playtesters, games without crafting are fast-paced, turns repetitive when players find out they can get everything they need in town. It's a cycle of ''head into dungeon, fight as deep as you can, come back out, repeat''. While games with crafting allows players to stay on the dungeons for a much longer time or even create their own safe zones, because they don't depend on shopkeepers and INNs to keep them alive.

>>54523685

Is he... is he not wearing pants?

>>54542996

It looks like there's a seam on his left leg, which makes me think he is. On the other hand, it does kind of look like he's wearing a fundoshi or something similar.

>>54536791
>>54536388
Somewhere a Yehudah or Black Sun enchanter is working on just that, you know...

>>54524749
>literal sweetie posting

>>54523685
>its not fair that only magic users can make magic items
>I should be able to punch swords until they give me magic

Martialfags are literally subhuman.

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>>54539238
>tries to slip a knife into a noble's drink

>>54523685
You're almost certainly only talking about D&D because most games don't even HAVE crafting systems.

>>54545067
It's a new thing for cheap yous, ignore them on face.

>>54542859
A crafting system in that vein doesn't automatically make a game better, it just substitutes "going to the inn for a rest" with "search for ingredients to do thing"