Why is it that whenever someone asks a question about literally

Too many absolute+hyperbolic statements to be good bait.

>>54520603
He's not wrong, though.

>>54520618
He's not exactly right, either.

>>54520624
He's mostly right.

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Is this are new GURPSgen?

Honestly, it's usually a GURPS player doing it for the sole purpose of giving the rest of us something to groan about.

The first people to disparage annoying GURPS players on /tg/ is other GURPS players.

>>54520407
B-But it's a UNIVERSAL system! GURPS is the replacement for every other system that exists

>>54520762
Not every system, just 90% of what /tg/ plays (WoD, 40k, SR, D&D).

People are so engrained in number crunching and min-maxing that no one gives a shit about story and actual role play anymore. This will be the death of GURPS and all other universal systems.

>Muh combat NEEDS to be more detailed and relaistic
>I don't wanna think of any cool combat outcomes, I want the numbers to do that for me

>>54520407

Because they take the name too literally. GURPS, like all generic systems, still has things it is better or worse suited for and certain qualities of experience that it can excel or fail at delivering.

They also fail to understand that GURPS is, by design, only a single kind of game, a quite granular simulation focused one. If a groups preference lies elsewhere, GURPS is not appropriate for them.

It's just good
3d6 bell curve
All dice are d6's
Most things are accounted for
Active community and one of the best generals on /tg/
Combat is fluid and martials don't suck
People who made it care about it

>>54520407
The game is a horrible overcomplicated mess, and so are practically all of its supplements.
Why even use it if whatever you can come up with yourself is gonna be better by simple virtue of having better depth/complexity ratio and the same level of balance (which is to say; none) or better.

>>54521188
What's overcomplicated about it? Could you give some examples?

>>54521188
Yea it's like how real life is totally balanced

Oh wait

>>54521241

How is that in any way relevant to game design?

>>54521241
>Fuck gameplay, am I right
>And fuck having more than one good character build!
>Yeah fuck that shit, it ain't realistic

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>"universal" game system
>doesn't use metric units

Someone actually explain what GURPS is like.

>>54521268
What's the one good character build?

>>54521283

Tofu. On its own, it's a bit bland and flavourless, and it's hard to intuitively understand what to do with it. If you've got the skills and look up some recipes, you can make a lot of fucking fantastic food with it. But despite the versatility of the ingredient, at the end of the day you're still eating tofu.

>>54521289
inb4 "80 points in guns lol"

GURPS is great for a lot of different things, and a lot easier to play than most people expect or realize. Though there are also many cases in which people recommend it, while there's clearly better alternatives.

GURPS however is a system that every GM benefits from being knowledgeable of. It'll allow easy homebrew play, and is a generic system that will cover the vast majority of genres, while excelling at many of those. GURPS is personally my favorite system overall.

>>54521283
In play, most of it is rolling 3d6. For skill rolls, that's at or under your skill. For contests, you compare margins of success/failure. Chargen is chunky, but it's very smooth in play, because you frontloaded all of the work.

GURPS' default state is "heroic realism," like the kind you would see in hollywood action flicks. Humans are just humans, but there's a lot of leeway for you to be an action hero.

The GM makes the campaign. This usually amounts to them saying, for example, "We're playing roaring 1920s in the deep south. Characters should be rumrunners, journalists, members of the mafia, cops, detectives, and similar. It's realistic, so no cinematic traits and try not to treat every problem like combat." That informs players of everything they need to know for character creation and what rules are in play.

Combat is generally deadly. One shot from a pistol or two whacks with a bat is going to knock you out, and if you don't have buddies you're at the mercy of whoever cleaned your clock. It's a good idea to use cover and de-escalate. At high point totals, though, combat becomes easier to justify because you're more capable and have more safety nets.

Besides all of that, the bell curve from 3d6 radically changes the competency of characters. You no longer have the slapstick feel of the d20, which is very swingy. In short, on a 3d6, the values 10 and 11 and 27 possible combinations each, which makes them more likely to show up than any other number. On a d20, the values 10 and 11 both can occur once, so they're just as likely to happen as any other number.

If you have more questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

>>54521309
It doesn't do some system/setting-specific gimmicks very well, that much is true.

>>54521277
I just convert yards to meters

GURPS is a fantastic system choice for about 85% of genres/playstyles or settings, merely functional for about 10%, and absolutely the wrong choice of system for about 5%.

It's not nearly as complex as you'd think, very easy to learn to play (GMing it is easy too, but requires experience and solid pre-campaign preparation), and's even more flexible than many people realize or give it credit for.

It's not perfect for everything, and some people may not like the mechanical style it's laid out in (regardless of how light/heavy or Sim/narrative you have it tuned); that's fine.

It is, however, a damn fine game and pays out tenfold what you're willing to put into it. Well worth the investment to learn and play, and if you're well versed in it you can do and experience wondrous things.

I don't fault people for not liking it though.

"No flavor" is a highly inaccurate and silly/possibly malicious complaint, or at best a terrible misunderstanding of the system. There are many valid criticisms of GURPS as it's a system with flaws and weaknesses like any other, but that isn't one of them.

>>54521958
I agree. It plays mediocre for most stuff, amazing for a lot of stuff, poorly for some stuff.

It's just good, well worth learning

>>54520630
Not really.

>>54521958

At its core, GURPS is flavourless. This is intentional- It's a generic system, the flavour comes from how it's used and the many layers of extra mechanics you pile on top.

However, for people who care about mechanical tone and how core mechanics can convey the themes of the game, no amount of sprinkles on top can stop GURPS, at its core, feeling a bit flavourless and dull.

How much this matters to people varies, but when people call GURPS flavourless it's generally for this reason.

>>54521309

That describes every game system that isn't Dread.

Point to a single drop of flavour in d20, a gram of style in WoD - bereft of fluff, their mechanics are a skeleton picked clean of even the gristle.

>>54522140

What kinds of shitty game have you been playing?

D&D and WoD aren't the best examples, but even then both of them have elements of their tone, themes and genre built into their mechanics at a base level. D&D kinda flails around and does this by accident half the time, while WoD shoots itself in the foot by tying a narrativist premise to an overly crunchy core system in Storyteller, but they still have more implicit tone and theme than GURPS does. Which, again, is intentional. It's not an outright negative about the system, it's just a necessity of its design, which is why it comes off as cold and flat to some people.

>>54522140
At least gurps knows it's flavorless

>>54521880
Yeah, but when you need to do any more complex calculations than "one yard equals one meter" it would be really nice to be able to use sensible units. For example, here's some handy information from one of the Thaumatology books that's pretty much Hebrew to me.

>As a rule of thumb, short grasses need five quarts
of water per square yard per day during the growing
season. Each 10% shortfall reduces yield by 25%.

Google's unit conversion tool helpfully informs me that one US liquid quart is under a liter, and one Imperial quart is over a liter, with the latter being 20% larger in volume than the former unit. This is fortunate, because I was not aware that the Imperial system was different from the US system, and there isn't a definion anywhere in the book about what quart is used. Am I to expect a 50% drop in my short grass yield if I fuck up somewhere?

>>54522140
That's just not true. D20 has some degree of setting-agnosticism, but is still doesn't do for example realistic modern or sci-fi settings. Vancian casting is inherently setting-bound. WoD heavily features aspects that are inherently genre-bound, like its various magic systems. I mean, you try running a WW1 trench warfare game in d20, for example. It'll work if you houserule it enough, but it'll feel like shit because the feeling of the system is a complete mismatch for the kind of game you're trying to run.

Things like the lethality of a system, the baseline power of the player, the granularity of stats and rolls, how rules-heavy the system is, etc. all contribute to the overall feeling of a system, which has a serious result on how it's played and how well it works for specific settings.

>>54522202
I just replace all things with equivients.
>pounds to kg
>yards to meters
>quarts to liters
>inches to 3 cm
And so on

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Because GURPS is a fantastic system that isn't all that hard to use or play, assuming you're not a mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger.

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>>54520407

>>54521277
>Game made for Americans
>The company behind it is literally not interested in any other market (because apparently they are retarded)
Here, solved it for you in two bulletpoints

>>54521283
A fuck-huge box of LEGO. Unless you know waht you want to build, it will be a random hodge-podge of peices.

>>54522477
Honestly am American, but science student. I use metric all the time because 10s are better than 12's

>>54520407
GURPS is in the shitter and has been for years - you can go check SJG's annual reports on how they've been doing on their website and it spells it out for you in black and white that GURPS has been spiralling the drain for a long time. Idiots who think GURPS is the answer to everything have been a presence ever since it was originally published, but you'd think you'd see less of them as the fanbase shrinks. In practice, the smaller and more irrelevant GURPS becomes, the more desperate for converts the hardcore fanbase gets.

The big problem with GURPS is the big problem with any universal system - which is that usually, all else being equal, a game system designed from the ground up to cater to a particular setting or genre will always serve it better than a universal system that had to be massaged into it. It's exacerbated by the fact that there's a bunch more generic systems these days, most of which are less crunchy and therefore impose their core ideas on play less than GURPS does. Cortex, FATE, Fudge, Savage Worlds, all of them serve a range of playstyles far better than GURPS does.

GURPS is typically only good at low-level high-realism high-nerdery simulations. Even then, HERO system without the superpowers often works better for that sort of thing a lot of the time.

On top of that, SJG in general is a bit of an echo chamber, with Steve and Dr Kromm drinking the kool-aid as much as the fans have, with the result that the game panders to the core fanbase whilst completely losing sight of the necessity of providing a useful introduction. (GURPS Lite is a fucking joke.)

It's sad, really.

>>54522040
A solid GM with an idea can make the rules and mechanics compliment the tone. Look at Dungeon Fantasy, Action, or After the End. Those books are chock full of examples of how to play within a certain tone.

>>54522649
So many words and so little to say.

>>54522649
Hey, I'm in the market for a flexible system less ponderous than GURPS. What are the merits and weaknesses of Cortex, I haven't heard much about that one.

>>54522731
Lemme trim it down for you, you ADHD-addled kid.
>nobody buys GURPS anymore
>other systems do what GURPS did better
>GURPS can't get new players due to pandering primarily to its autism-infested fanbase
tl;dr: GURPS is shit, use Savage Worlds or Fate instead

>>54522649
I agree with a lot of what you said, but a few things:
GURPS is still a moneysink, yes, but it's actually more popular than it has been in years. You're right about the inherent marketing flaws and obstacles though.

>Cortex, FATE, Fudge, Savage Worlds, all of them serve a range of playstyles far better than GURPS does.
Blatantly false. These games have MUCH more specific playstyles than GURPS that are even harder to extricate, have you even played these?

>GURPS is typically only good at low-level high-realism high-nerdery simulations. Even then, HERO system without the superpowers often works better for that sort of thing a lot of the time.
Both halves of this statement are wildly inaccurate, and I say that as someone who loves HERO 5th. Again, I suspect you haven't actually played the games in question enough to be making such assertions.

>>54522889
Barring FUDGE btw, which is literally just GURPS with an adjective ladder and a "fudge it!" mentality which provides room for very similar playstyles, consequently.

>>54522889
>Savage Worlds is much more specific in playstyle than GURPS
>the corebook itself has optional rules to adjust its playstyle
>meanwhile Fate is capable of almost anything with the right aspects and skill list
u wot m8

>>54522649
>The big problem with GURPS is the big problem with any universal system - which is that usually, all else being equal, a game system designed from the ground up to cater to a particular setting or genre will always serve it better than a universal system that had to be massaged into it.
Except all else isn't equal. Dark Heresy, Only War, Black Crusade, Rogue Trader, etc. sucks. 5e D&D and Pathfinder suck. Shadowrun 4e onwards SUUUUUUCKS. All of those RPGs, which are widely played, fail to actually deliver the core premise of their settings and/or genres. GURPS can do them better than the base system can.

Does that mean GURPS can do everything? No. Leave LotW and Exalted to themselves. Leave WoD/CoD to Fate (HtR should be done with GURPS). Leave FFG Star Wars to itself.

As for only being good at low-level high-realism high-nerdery simulations, false. All of the main GURPS product lines that come packaged as complete genrebooks are, at a baseline, cinematic. Action! is all about being hollywood action heroes, like John Wick. Monster Hunters is badasses with serious asskicking abilities hunting highly dangerous monsters. Dungeon Fantasy does D&D's heroic fantasy right, where non-casters feel as badass as casters. After the End is about the same level as Mad Max: Fury Road. And that's not talking about Supers, which is perfect for X-Men and Justice League style games.

SJGames has horrible business sense, yes. GURPS is a labor of love at this point. The DFRPG box set will, hopefully, revitalize GURPS and capitalize on the OSR boom. GURPS Lite needs to be about x1.5 to x2 as long. I wouldn't say the community is shrinking, though. It's fairly sizeable and been stable for some time. There's a very active community of bloggers. What GURPS doesn't have are people who stream their games. Film Re-Roll is about as close as you get. All of the rest are written game replays on blogs.

>>54522927
GURPS has far more options to tweak playstyle than any of those listed. For the record Fate doesn't even really change playstyle, it changes setting and "genre"; the playstyle is actually very narrow for Fate, which is "imagine this concept, now we're going to play through a Hollywood film about that concept". Sounds flexible, and in some respects it is, but playstyle is not one of them. This fact is even supported by Rob Hanz and the game developers, so don't even try to tell me I'm off base.

>>54522889
>doesn't have any actual arguments
>resorts to "you're wrong and you haven't played the game!"
Cool story, bro.

>>54520407
>Getting this mad over a meme
Your autism is showing OP.

>>54522996
>Rob Hanz
Who?

And what the fuck do you mean by playstyle then? Because I've never seen a version of GURPS that doesn't end up defaulting to an autismal crunchfest, Lite included.

>>54522982
Fanboy posts like this are exactly what the OP is talking about though.
>LOL GURPS CAN DO YOUR GAME BETTER THAN YOUR GAME CAN STOP PLAYING SHIT GAMES PLAY GURPS
The only difference is that, at least in this case, you're not spamming it in a thread where it's not even relevant.

>>54523017
You didn't have any arguments either man, you just said a thing like it's fact (it's clearly not) with no supporting facts at all. Are you dumb, or do you just think I am?

>>54522982
>The DFRPG box set will, hopefully, revitalize GURPS and capitalize on the OSR boom
GURPS stands for the polar fucking opposite of the reasons people play OSR systems, which are mainly simplicity, being extremely easy to homebrew and inter-compatibility with older TSR material

>>54522649
>GURPS is typically only good at low-level high-realism high-nerdery simulations.
So thats why there was so much fanboyish hype when launched DUNGEON FANTASY kickstarter, not because GURPS playerbase so much want to play games about strong as fuck hot barbarian bimbos and badass mages of transcendental awesomeness *tips fedora*, who killing tarrasques for breackfast, and stealing tons of gold from vault on plane of vaults to buy another orichalc sword for toothpick, like D&Dmasterrace do

>>54523193
>So thats why there was so much fanboyish hype when launched DUNGEON FANTASY kickstarter
Because GURPS fans will display fanboyish hype at literally every opportunity.

Hence this thread.

>>54522860
Not what I meant by my post, but okay.

People DO still buy GURPS, as evident by Pyramid magazine.

There might be other systems that "do what GURPS does better," if you only take into account the Basic Set, but anyone familiar with GURPS knows that you don't stop and play with only the Basic Set unless you want a boring game. GURPS has been doing GURPS for a long time, so collectively speaking the whole system is EXTREMELY robust with a WEALTH of information, with even the third edition shit still being relevant for world building. There is nothing quite like GURPS in terms of sheer volume and depth of information.

With that Dungeon Fantasy box set thing due to come out soon, new players will definitely follow. It's specifically aimed at getting as many people as possible interested in the system so as to get them to spread out into other areas of GURPS.

>>54523191
Then you obviously haven't played a proper Dungeon Fantasy game. It's extremely trivial to set up, even for the GM, and I'm talking about the original DF series.

>>54523219
Not an argument.

>>54523265
It's not meant to be an argument, Einstein. It's an explanation.

ITT: boohoo, stop talking about this game I don't like.

/tg/ is a bunch of children.

>>54523191
>simplicity
Dungeon Fantasy is as simple as it gets. You haven't played or even read it, though, so you wouldn't know.

>being extremely easy to homebrew
Wait, you're telling me that a toolkit-system that has almost everything you could ever want to homebrew already statted up for you, isn't easy to homebrew in? We're talking about GURPS, here, right, and not 3.5e D&D?

>inter-compatibility with older TSR material
It doesn't work out of the box with it, I'll grant you that, but one of GURPS' main selling points is how easy conversion is because it uses real-world numbers. It's also easy to eyeball what a monster should be like in GURPS based on what it is in whatever TSR product you're reading. And, if you're really lazy, there are already numerous monsters published officially (DF1, DFM1-3) and unofficially (GURPS Wikidot, It Came From The Forums).

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>>54523299
Whatever you say, buddy.

>>54523265
Pyramid has been a niche irrelevance for decades, it's not like it still has any print presence worth a damn and it's only subscribed to by the SJG bubble fanbase.

>>54523265
>Then you obviously haven't played a proper Dungeon Fantasy game. It's extremely trivial to set up, even for the GM, and I'm talking about the original DF series.
It's true that I haven't played it, but I am also EXTREMELY skeptical that it could be even half as simple as B/X at best, and it definitely won't allow you to run TSR modules as easily as the systems they were fucking made for

>>54521041
>it's just good

It's an exercise in beancounting that doesn't offer anything over most other RPGs. It's an autism simulator.

>best general

That's like saying it has the best watery shit.

>>54523341
>Wait, you're telling me that a toolkit-system that has almost everything you could ever want to homebrew already statted up for you, isn't easy to homebrew in?
Yes, that is PRECISELY what I am telling you. B/X is a big dumb rock that has almost nothing except the bare basic rules it needs to function, which is why it's so easy to slap whatever shit you want on it and not be afraid that it'll break the game or be inconsistent with other rules

The last one. Its a rules heavy game that touts itself as universal. So you have the combined double whammy of a lot of time invested learning the intricacies of the system with a tacit encouragement to use it for absolutely fucking everything. It attracts the sort of gamer that feels that everything ever has to be modeled in an RPG for it to be good (it's not a good game if you can't play as asparagus, right?) who legitimately feels they're doing you a service by pushing it every time there's any conceivable reason to push it. On top of that it has that crass lie of a meme that GURPS is just "like, 3d6 roll under" as though there is such a thing as a GURPS player that doesn't use most of the fucking system, because if you don't there is literally no reason to use it over any other game.

>>54523398
>exercise in bean counting
Oh noes it's so hard to add and subtract things what will I do

>generals

Yea that's fair

>>54523505
>Oh noes it's so hard to add and subtract things what will I do

Use a system with a set of character creation rules that doesn't require tracking a bunch of fiddly modifiers? Lots of them out there, and they all function about as well as GURPS, though they wont satisfy your typical GURPS player's autism.

>>54523344
Not an argument

>>54523462
The game is legit just 3d6 roll under with modifiers, that's like risus simple.

It just gets more complex with the layers you add

>>54523396
DF IS simple. It lays the premise, the rules, and the concepts out very nicely, and it's very easy to just take stuff out and put different things in. However, it works just fine at doing what it says on the tin: dungeon-focused campaigns.

For me, I personally like a little depth to armor placement so I use some extra rules that deal with armor being put on specific locations. I also like the players to have a lot of options in combat so I bring in majority of Martial Arts to make things interesting.

>>54523462
>rules heavy

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

>>54523531
Use a character creation software. There's a free one just for GURPS.

>>54523540
Touche.

>>54523561
NO IT FUCKING ISN'T. Even the lite version is 32 pages, and it's an extremely limited game that can't be called complete. The basic resolution mechanic is not the game, you fucking simp. By that reasoning D&D 3.5 is just D20 roll over, but only a fucking moron would claim that, so are GURPS players all just so peculiarly stupid as to think that or what?

>>54523589
>You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

How many pages is the basic set?

>Use a character creation software. There's a free one just for GURPS.
>special software to make the beancounting easier
>this makes the beancounting acceptible

GURPSfags are like Dungeon World fags, only they're neckbeards rather than hipsters.

>>54523443
You don't need to homebrew when everything's done for you, dude...

>>54523604
Yeah, but all the rules you're bitching about? Optional.

>>54523660
Yes, I suppose you could just sit there and narrate the situation and roll 3d6 against an arbitrary number to determine success, but you might as well just flip coins you fucking cretin. ALL THE RULES IN ALL GAMES ARE OPTIONAL YOU FUCKING MONG.

>>54523604
The basic set is huge because the authors had the crazy idea of putting almost everything in. They did so much that the splats are like 99% tips for gm's 1% of stats.(baring crazy books like the tech books, or the supplements like powers and supers or dungeon fantasy)

>>54523654
I don't want everything to be done for me because if I feel like getting esoteric and doing something like, say, a class based on being a swarm of disposable mooks (which is something I actually saw on a OSR blog) you most likely won't have the rules I want anyways and if you do, given the core mechanics are simple enough, I'll likely prefer to make my own rather than sift through a bunch of sub-systems in different books to patchwork what I want together.

>>54523740
Look, it's more mechanically heavy than BESM 2nd, which is already mechanically medium, it's a rules heavy game. It's about comparable to D&D 3.5 for basic mechanical density, assuming you aren't intentionally paring the game down to the bare minimum (which raises the question of why not just play a dedicated rules light system).

>>54523774
I just did it

Just buy a bunch of allies, they can be your disposible mooks 50% of your point total, always with you, 100 of them.

Costs 96 points

Took me like 3 seconds

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>>54523632
If you can't read and don't have an appetite to learn then you aren't suited to GURPS. Pack up, go home, you are though.

fukkenlold
one gurpstard blaming other gurpstard in he's wrong playing wrong gurps

>>54523826
>GURPSfag shilling his poison

Piss off. He already said his game works well enough for him, why can't you leave it at that?

>>54523604
Just use the Basic Set and ignore a majority of the advantages and disadvantages that don't actively affects the type of game you enjoy.

Go through the basic combat chapter (and tactical if you want that) and ignore hitlocation, bleed, shield damage, and anything else that would slow down combat.

If you're in a fantasy setting, you don't even have to worry about guns so you can throw all those rules away.

Simplify the range/speed table to "bands," (or use the one from Action) if you want things to remain buttery smooth with no table lookups.

If you go through and cherry pick instead of using everything in the Basic Set like you're suppose to, you can cut ALL the fat and be left with an extremely lightweight system.

>>54523632
Just because the book is big doesn't mean that you can't cherry pick through the book. Not to mention that the character book is 90% advantages, disadvantages, and skills so that doesn't really count.

And if you don't want to use the character creation software, and don't want to deal with stupid beancounting, don't use a shitload of modifiers to your advantages or whatever (if that's what you're referring to). Play a straightforward fantasy game with the idea of creating brutally simple characters.

>>54523687
Yes, but GURPS actively says and promotes the idea of a majority of rules being optional. Even the rules that most people swear by in combat like hit location are completely optional.

>>54523826
So? I could make the same concept on M&M 3e about as quickly too, but that's because I'm already experienced in the system, and I most definitely wouldn't use M&M to run an OSR dungeon crawl. The benefit of having an almost non-existent but still functional system, as opposed to a rules-heavy generalist-support one, is that it erases system mastery as a factor on whether or not you can get it to do what you want

>>54523789
Character creation in GURPS is more simple and verstile then those games and it's vastly simpler in play then BESM.

The best reason not to use GURPS is that it's a very powerful and large tool box and many GMs can't use most of the tools and prefer games where they have few options and less is asked of them.

>>54523848
He said that he saw a home brew for his game set around having a swarm of mooks

I pointed out that gurps has official rules for that kind of stuff, and gave an example

I wasn't shilling, just pointing out that gurps does in fact not need homebrew for that example

>>54523687
Yes, but GURPS is actually built with that in mind. Are you okay anon? You seem triggered.

>>54523604
>NO IT FUCKING ISN'T. Even the lite version is 32 pages
It may not be complete, but it's 90% of the system.

>Main dice are 3d6. Roll at or under skill, attribute, CR, etc. to succeed.
>A 3 or 4 is always a critical success, while a 17 or 18 is always a critical failure. If you're rolling against 15+, a 5 is a critical success. 16+ means a 6 is a critical success and 17 is a normal failure.
>Quick contests are resolved in a single roll. You win if you succeed at the other fails, if you win by a greater margin, or if you lose by a smaller margin. Ties mean nobody won.
>Regular contests are resolved in a series of rolls. You win if you succeed and the other fails. Otherwise, roll again.
>Advantages cost points, disadvantages give points.
>Skills are either Easy, Average, Hard, or Very Hard. The cost progression is 1 point total for one level, 2 points total for two levels, four points total for three levels, and +4 points for each additional level. Easy skills start at Attribute+0 with a single point, Average at Attribute-1, Hard at -2, and Very Hard at -3.
>In combat, roll against combat skill to hit, or (combat skill/2)+3 to parry/block, or Speed+3 to dodge.
>If you fail to defend against a successful attack, subtract DR if any, then multiply by wounding modifier for injury.
>HP is equal to ST, FP is equal to HT. At 1/3 HP, halve Move and Dodge.
>Below 0 HP means you roll for unconsciousness, and whenever you act, at a penalty equal to full multiple of HP below 0. -1xHP means you start rolling for death (not penalized). -5xHP means you die.
>Shock penalties come from an equal amount of injury, to a maximum of -4. Penalty applies to DX- and IQ-based skills, but not active defenses or other defensive reactions.
>Major wounds are greater than HP/2. Roll HT to avoid knockdown and stunning. If you fail, you fall down and are stunned. Roll HT to recover at the end of your next turn.

There you go. GURPS. You can run a game now!

>>54523632
The Basic Set is 576 pages, including shit like table of contents, index, example characters and creatures, etc. etc. Those 576 pages cover magic spells, laser guns, knapping a flint spear, interdimensional travel, foraging for food, asphyxiating in the vacuum of space, robots and aliens, mad science inventing, bleeding out, psionic abilities, DRIFTO, and the multidimensional kitchen sink setting for GURPS. The number of pages does not correlate to how light or heavy the rules are when said rules cover so many different topics because you are never going to use more than a fraction of them in any campaign (though I'd like to see the resulting clusterfuck).

Compare this to D&D 5e, which uses 600+ pages between the PHB and DMG while covering only a specific genre and tone. I don't see anyone crying that D&D 5e is rules heavy due to their page count. In fact, 5e is often touted as a simplified, streamlined D&D perfect for newbies and first-timers.

As for chargen software, I don't think it's necessary, but if you honestly have trouble keeping track of points you spend, it's there for you. The existence of chargen software also shouldn't be used as a reason to think the system is complex, as damn near everything benefits from the availability of solid, digital tools.

>>54523910
GURPS gives back what you put in. If you aren't willing to learn then you won't get much out.

>>54523852
>Just use the Basic Set and ignore a majority of the advantages and disadvantages that don't actively affects the type of game you enjoy.
>Go through the basic combat chapter (and tactical if you want that) and ignore hitlocation, bleed, shield damage, and anything else that would slow down combat.
>If you're in a fantasy setting, you don't even have to worry about guns so you can throw all those rules away.
>Simplify the range/speed table to "bands," (or use the one from Action) if you want things to remain buttery smooth with no table lookups.
>If you go through and cherry pick instead of using everything in the Basic Set like you're suppose to, you can cut ALL the fat and be left with an extremely lightweight system.

Or, or, OR! I could play a game that's already lightweight because I have no use for an autism simulator.

>Just because the book is big doesn't mean that you can't cherry pick through the book. Not to mention that the character book is 90% advantages, disadvantages, and skills so that doesn't really count.

Or, I could play a system where I don't have to.

>And if you don't want to use the character creation software, and don't want to deal with stupid beancounting, don't use a shitload of modifiers to your advantages or whatever (if that's what you're referring to). Play a straightforward fantasy game with the idea of creating brutally simple characters.

If I'm not going to use the only actual strength of the game (having rules for fucking everything) why would I use it over a more lightweight universal RPG?

>Yes, but GURPS actively says and promotes the idea of a majority of rules being optional. Even the rules that most people swear by in combat like hit location are completely optional.

They actively promote it for the same reason hipsters do things to be ironic: it's a deflection of criticism that prevents you from ever actually attacking the substance of the game.

>>54524015
But anon, you already have the autism. It shows. Just go back to posting 80pts in guns pasta and it'll be okay.

>>54524015
>Instead of ready to play write-your-hero-name-here package, need to read half-thousand pages book to cherry pick what should players cherry pick for themself
Thats why all that speaking about gurps need boxed sets to get more new players are fail

What's a good, lighter "generic" RPG to use instead of GURPS? I've looked at Savage Worlds and FATE but am not really into bennies/fate points and the like.

>>54523928
Having played both GURPS and BESM, you're completely full of shit. BESM 2nd is considerably simpler than GURPS. Please stop lying.

>>54523932
>I wasn't shilling

Bullshit, thats literally all GURPSfags do, because it cause brain damage that drives them to obsessively try and get everyone to play GURPS.

>>54523935
It's no more built with it in mind than any other game. GURPSfags say this to avoid actual criticism of the autism simulator. Let's argue in good faith and assume that someone is actually running a game with GURPS, which means using most of its dense rulebooks.

>>54523936
That's not a complete game, fuck off.

>>54523973
>Compare this to D&D 5e, which uses 600+ pages between the PHB and DMG while covering only a specific genre and tone. I don't see anyone crying that D&D 5e is rules heavy due to their page count. In fact, 5e is often touted as a simplified, streamlined D&D perfect for newbies and first-timers.

While people do say it's good for new players, literally nobody claims D&D is anything but rules heavy. I suppose we could do some dishonest bullshit like >>54523936 for it, but players of other games are better than that.

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>>54524088
GURPS Lite.

>>54523980
I mean, that's exactly it. I'm sure that if I organized a meeting of GURPS geniuses with an intricate enough knowledge of the system we could even forgo common human speech in favor of quoting paragraphs from the rulebook, but if you already have a system which does its job perfectly well, why? I can see using GURPS if you're interested in its complexity, because that's something you're hardly going to see with other systems, but if you gave me a pick between 3 systems which do what I want to varying degrees of success, and making it from the ground up with GURPS, I'd rather see the 3 systems very carefully before deciding I need the extreme generalist thingamajick.

>>54524095
>That's not a complete game, fuck off.
It pretty much is, dude. 2000 characters isn't much to work with, but that really is most of GURPS! Crazy, right? It's just missing the boatload of modifiers GURPS likes, equipment, and definitions for attributes/secondary characteristics. There's really no more rules for GURPS you can shove in there, unless you'd like to tell me what's missing?

>>54524088
Fudge
>not into fate points and bennies
Why? They're fun.

>>54524095
Gurps is not, and never has been a complete game anon. I think you don't understand that and I want it to be very clear.

GURPS is a toolkit for you to make the game you want. Now breathe in, count to ten, and exhale before you go get some tendies.

>>54524015
>If I'm not going to use the only actual strength of the game (having rules for fucking everything) why would I use it over a more lightweight universal RPG?
To put it simply? You can have it be as light as you want, while still expanding it modularly in the areas you want more detail.

Yeah, it can be played bare-bones and narrative as hell, and that works fine. But it gets fun where you have a sorcerer and a martial artist in the same group, who want to get into their respective niches more in-depth. Okay, easy; tack on the Sorcery system, or RPM if they're more into WoD-style sphere magic. Sprinkle some tomes throughout the game world, add some lore.

The martial artist? Maybe you expand available hit locations campaign-wide to make location of strikes more important, or expand injury to make things more interesting on the martial side of things. Maybe you use additional armor rules to make him think about his fighting tactics, bring in more grappling.
Let him buy some actual martial arts styles, then some perks to hone down on those. Maybe allow him access to a Chi system of powers, or "switch on" a bunch of cinematic and Wuxia campaign features.

But the rest of the system remains pared down where you don't need or want the detail. Cut out the crunch where it isn't needed.

By the same token, maybe you use practically NONE of the combat rules; not even hit locations, damage types, etc. You want to play merchants and politicians in a vast web of lies, deceit and profit.
Okay.
So you expand the social side of the system. You bring out Social Engineering. Boardroom and Curia. You get City Stats, and Low-Tech: Life and Economics because you want to get into the nitty-gritty of trade, expansion, etc. Mass combat, so you know what it takes to raise and maintain troup formations. Plug in the rules for building new settlements, or strongholds.

The idea is that it's a "plug and play" system, where you only add what benefits you and makes things more fun.

>>54524065
You tell your players the setting, then check over the character sheets for anything weird

It's like any other game

>>54524175
The ability to actually create characters, hazards, or situational outcomes. That's not GURPS, and nobody plays GURPS like that. So please, let's discuss the game in good faith.

>>54524199
>GURPS
>light
Lel

>>54524199
>To put it simply? You can have it be as light as you want, while still expanding it modularly in the areas you want more detail.

You're not getting me. What if I don't give a shit about that? Like, not one fucking shit. Because other lighter universal RPGs do it without me having to fiddle through them fucking rulebooks.

>>54524221
>inb4 some extremely tortured interpretation of the system that isn't actually playable that nobody would ever use

>>54524162
If you're perfectly happy with a game you've already found, then great. No need to migrate to a new game like GURPS if it isn't going to provide you anything you don't already have. Nobody here (who isn't trolling, anyway) is trying to strongarm you into playing GURPS; it's just a system like any other, but it *is* a good system and has lots of utility.

>>54524216
Character creation is just spending points on making your attributes and skill levels higher, or for advantages that give you modifiers, let you ignore modifiers, or make skill rolls/quick contests for effect.

Hazards: "Roll against DX to jump over the pit. Oh, no, you fell. It's a long enough drop to hurt, so take 2d6 injury."

Situational outcomes: I'm not even sure what you mean here. If you roll really badly, bad stuff happens, and if you roll really good, good stuff happens?

>nobody plays GURPS like this
These are the essential rules you will find in almost every GURPS game. Everything else is gravy, dude.

>>54524248
I don't have to, the summary someone posted is autistic enough and still doesn't have enough to be workable

>>54524228
Then. Play. Them.

But what happens if you want something rules-heavy?

Then you have to learn an entirely different system right? Wrong, you took the time to learn gurps and you don't even have to learn another system.

>>54524095
>It's no more built with it in mind than any other game.
I mostly agree with the rest of your post, but that is a complete lie.

>>54524162
I personally started playing GURPS *because* there were no other competent systems. D&D was and still is ass (though it was competent for a brief period). Shadowrun is a fucking mess. WoD and Exalted simply do not work mechanically. If I wanted a game that was even a touch more detailed and in-depth than "freeform while rolling dice occasionally out of habit" while ALSO being competently designed, GURPS was the only option.

Nowadays, things are better. I love games like DRYH and Dread because they do something GURPS struggles with right out the box. However, I still feel that GURPS is a superior option to the majority of specialized systems (and definitely the ones that managed to get popular), not to mention the ease with which GURPS does weird crossover games.

>>54524179
The way they are meant to be to distributed just rubs me the wrong way by seeming arbitrary and trying to overreinforce behavior that players should be doing for its own sake rather than forcing themselves to engage in for mechanical rewards.

>>54524095
We get it, you can't read and like Korean cartoon games.

>>54524297
>WoD does not work mechanically
Someone never saw nWoD 1e

>>54524278
FUCK. OFF. If nobody plays the game like that, we can conclude that this is not the game. Discuss it in good faith or fuck off.

>>54524313
Without a mechanical reward you get nobody ever taking character flaws except to milk it for drama at the table. Pick your poison.
Also, SW suggests giving bennies for good roleplay in general.

>>54524288
>But what happens if you want something rules-heavy?

I absolutely detest autism simulators, so it's not a concern. There's literally no reason to play a rules heavy game if you aren't some bean counting weirdo obsessed with modeling something to their own exacting conceptions of it.

Or a D&D player. But it gets a pass for being the face of the hobby... for some reason.

>>54524360
I play gurps like that, iz fun.

Oh wait you guys hate that

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>>54524360
Just because you don't want it to be true doesn't mean it isn't true, Anon. That's the barest essential GURPS. How is it not?

>>54524221
>Lel
Okay. It runs pretty light for me at least, and I would consider Fate rules-medium. I'm just telling you my experiences man, and I've played and run a huge number of different games looking for the perfect one (I still haven't found it).

>>54524228
>You're not getting me. What if I don't give a shit about that? Like, not one fucking shit. Because other lighter universal RPGs do it without me having to fiddle through them fucking rulebooks.
Calm down if you'd like to have a conversation. I'm not even the guy you were originally talking to. The benefit of GURPS is that you don't have to know 20 different systems inside and out to play 20 different styles/settings/flavors/etc. of games; just the one. Also, the fact that the modular nature of the game can be utilized mid-campaign without breaking anything, and it's all internally consistent.
I'm not saying this makes GURPS "better" than other games, only that it's a vast and powerful toolset that is worth it to learn if the nature of a flexible and modular system (also particularly open and transparent for homebrewing) appeals to you.
This is my way of long-windedly saying "if you are enjoying the system you're playing now and it does everything you want it to, and you don't mind learning a new one when you want to play something different... great! I'm very happy for you, and good gaming!"

>>54524397
Because you can't run a fucking game with that.

>>54524382
>There's literally no reason to play a rules heavy game if you aren't some bean counting weirdo obsessed with modeling something to their own exacting conceptions of it.
Systems talk aside completely, this smells strongly of "one-true-wayism" bullshit. Feel free to have your own preferred playstyles and system likes/dislikes, but stop trying to pretend your bullshit is some kind of objective quality metric.

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>>54524360
>receives countless posts that illustrates that he's wrong
>puts his hands over his ears and shout "nu uh!"

Simply amazing.

>>54524382
>>54524382
So you just hate rules heavy games? Ok then friendo

It seems like you are just WRONG BAD FUN, everyone who doesn't play rules light games is bad

>>54524434
>>54524392 and I beg to differ, anon.

>>54524382
>Rules heavy is autism
Why are you so aggressive? Some people like it when the system actually differentiates things, like when a dagger to the face and an elbow to the kidneys has different mechanical effects.

>>54524397
>>54524434
Let's start, what's a critical failure, a critical success, what do advantages do, what do disadvantages do, how do you determine speed, how do you gain DR, how do you determine HP, ST, FP, HT, Move?

Reference nothing but what is in that post.

>>54524464
No, I hate pushy motherfuckers that have been a nonstop presence on this board since its inception that can't seem to handle people not playing their game and wont shut the fuck up about it. I wouldn't care if GURPSfags could just shut the fuck up. But they wont, they push it everywhere, and can't leave any complaint about the system alone, they'll derail a thread with pushing and defense of the system, and have done so consistently as long as this board has been around.

>>54524506
He could have just said 3d6 roll under and said just as much about gurps, you are correct, however you can play a game of 3d6 roll under. I'm fairly sure that 40k runs like that, or the call of Cthulhu games. It's not bad just extremely rules light

>>54524506
>what's a critical failure
A really bad thing.

>a critical success
A really good thing.

>what do advantages do
They give bonuses to stuff, usually!

>what do disadvantages do
They give you penalties. Grr, frustrating >:(

>how do you determine speed
(DX+HT)/4.

>how do you gain DR
Wear armor, or buy advantages that give it!

>how do you determine HP, ST, FP, HT, Move?
HP = ST, FP = HT, attributes start at 10, Move = Speed.

Was that so hard?

>>54524545
So...you hate yourself? That explains a lot.

>>54524506
But none of those are required to play GURPS anon. They're optional.

>>54524562
>a really bad thing
>a really good thing
>they give bonuses to stuff, usually
>they give penalties, Grr, frustrating >:(

Which means what exactly? Remember: you can't reference anything that is outside that post.

>(DX+HT)/4
>Wear armor, or buy advantages that give it!
>HP = ST, FP = HT, attributes start at 10, move = speed

BZZT! Gonna stop you right there. None of that was in that post.

>>54524565
>I know you are, but what am I?

Great. I generally don't push my games of choice.

>>54524545
Oh lord you're honestly one of those faggots that gets triggered by someone going >GURPS? How have you managed to live so long when such tiny things set you off like that?

Christ, you might as well get pissy when someone posts "Have you tried not playing D&D?" Both are, at this point, automatic reactions by the board. They are posted because it's expected for someone to post them, regardless of if the poster feels that way or not.

>>54524608
>Which means what exactly?
Do you really need to be spoonfed, anon? I thought you liked rules light systems that let you be ~free as a bird~ ~high in the sky~

>BZZT! Gonna stop you right there. None of that was in that post.
Some of it was! Haha, got you >:3c

If you want, I can add the Autismo Extreme 2000-character add-on package, just for you, even though you're seriously harshing my mellow with how many rules you want, man. Seriously giving me bad vibes. Booooo.

>>54524634
Nah, I only see my dander kicked up when some GURPS player derails a thread with that shit. But this is a thread to bitch about GURPS players, so bitch I will.

>>54524650
>there's no medium between GURPS and a 4chan post "rule system"

Good lord man.

>>54524545
People ask /tg/ for a game to play something with.

Gurps can be used to play almost anything, so people recommend it.

Gurps is also controversial as an autism simulator, and /tg/ strives on strife. Thread explodes into rage.

>>54524480
Savage Worlds does this with 0% autism, if you use the Gritty Damage rule
>stabbing a nigga in the face causes him to go blind in one eye, look fucking hideous or suffer a minor concussion as most of it misses or deals superficial damage but the handle dings him in the skull
>an elbow in the gut, assuming it gets through at all, is likely to crack a rib or knock the wind out of them, with obvious stat penalties
>all this is assuming it doesn't take them out entirely

>>54524545
>pushy motherfuckers
So like every other playerbase with any presence at all on /tg/?

>can't seem to handle people not playing their game and wont shut the fuck up about it
This is so rarely the case. It's mostly trolls posting in system suggestion threads, and if it's *not* trolls then usually people are helpful enough to explain why they think GURPS would be a good choice, what tweaks to make or supplements to use, etc. And it should hardly surprise you that a well-known GENERIC SYSTEM shows up frequently in system recommendation threads; Savage Worlds and Fate also get a lot of love, they just don't have as much of a presence on /tg/.
Yes, a good chunk of the GURPS fanbase is pushy "one system to rule them all" idiots, but that's hardly the majority. It's simply a large group of people, anon.

>I wouldn't care if GURPSfags could just shut the fuck up
"Don't talk about this game I don't like! It causes me emotional anguish!"
I guess you truly are a native fa/tg/uy.

>But they wont, they push it everywhere, and can't leave any complaint about the system alone, they'll derail a thread with pushing and defense of the system, and have done so consistently as long as this board has been around.
What's funny is that about 3/4s of the time, whenever I see threads devolve into GURPStalk it's because somebody posted something like the OP of this thread talking crap about it for no other reason than because they don't like it, causing an endless downward spiral of shitposting. I'd say I've seen more GURPS shitstorms started by posters like you than by the "braindead autismal shills" you keep mentioning.
The irony is that if you all just recommended games you like instead of losing your shit when you see words starting with "G", it'd be far less terrible

Anyway. I guess the actual debate - and I use that term in the loosest sense possible - is over at this point. I'm glad you have games you like to play and aren't just being angry here for no reason, for real.

>>54524685
There is, it's called GURPS Lite! But that's just too big and scawwy for widdle anon-tan to handle :c so I'm helping him out! c:

>>54524660
>GRR I GET SO MAD WHEN I SEE GURPS EVERYONE IS A SHILL REEEEEEEE
>lol yumadtho?
>Haha I am actually not mad. I am actually the very model of a calm and collected Anon.

Just stop dude.

>>54524506
You have to do that sort of baseline shit in a normal RPG system, idiot.

>>54524713
>I can't defend my clunkfest! Better start the babytalk mockery!

>>54524629
Then what are you doing here?

>>54524693
Can it do a tank deception fighting a laser Kung fu master using Kung-fu drop kick. To the specifics of the laser weapons and/or actual kung-fu techniques?

Or a RAF game with cyborg ninjas with their own fighting style?

Pocket sand?

Going from gunpowder to grenade?

Bicycle dude?

Vemon-suits?

All of the above to exteme detail? No? Then what's your point?

>>54524758
The implications of your posts are that GURPS is somehow clunky because it has stats and derived stats - which have existed in RPGs since the beginning.

What exactly is your argument?

>>54524758
Yeah, rolling under with 3d6 sure is clunky >_<' It's just so hard to know that you roll 3d6! Like, helloooooooooo!? I'm a busy guy, here! Got people to see, things to do! I can't learn how to roll 3d6, lol. Especially when, like, someone lays it all out for me in a 4chan post?
Wowee-zowie, my brain hurts! Now, a d20? That's perfection. Beautiful. One roll, one number. Genius!

>>54524711
If you haven't seen an overly defensive GURPS player derail a thread, you're engaging in selective bias. Which isn't unreasonable, those defenses probably do seem reasonable to you, because you're part of the tribe. But GURPS players being overly pushy has been a well repeated complaint on /tg/ for as long as /tg/ has been around, so I'd be willing to bet there's a grain of truth to it. Hell you even acknowledge it.

>"Don't talk about this game I don't like! It causes me emotional anguish!"

Not what I meant. You know how when you see a criticism of GURPS and you feel the need to defend it relentlessly in an unrelated thread? Don't do that.

>angry for no reason

There's a certain sense of liberation in anger. But I must admit I feel a bit silly.

>>54524723
Things I never claimed or implied.

>>54524713
You'd be hard pressed to play anything with it.

>>54524378
So, if I pick the poison of not having the mechanical reward, what are my options?

>>54524821
>Things I never claimed or implied

No, only displayed.

>>54524800
He wasn't claiming it was clunky because of that. He was claiming that there's more to the game than is in that post.

>>54524821
I played a Star Wars game with GURPS lite. It was fun.

>>54524778
I don't know what the fuck you're even saying. But yes, it can probably do those, although not to the doubtlessly autismal levels of detail you imply at the end.
>>54524805
>implying I d20
Just look at the rules you posted for parrying/dodging earlier, jesus fucking christ

>>54524845
>I'm going to read something that isn't there.

Man, it's like you're a caricature of a deconstructionist or something. I never claimed to be calm.

>>54524821
>If you don't agree with me, YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!
>They're so fucking pushy they never shut up they always do this shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up!!
>...I ain't mad tho lol.

>>54524881
>>54524894

Naw he mad, he at least can admit when he's buttbothered though, so we may as well ignore his assmad ramblings.

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>>54524821
>You'd be hard pressed to play anything with it.
Are you having problems running a game in it, anon? I'm here to help! I'll teach you how to read, how to roll some dice, how to come up with a campaign idea, even how to find friends to play with! Here, I'll be your first friend. What's your nintendo friend code? We can play pokemon together!! >w<

>>54524869
Oh, no, is math hard for you? Gosh, we'll have to start from the beginning! Okay, so, like, you do the stuff inside the parentheses first, okay? So when it says combat skill / 2, that means you divide. Do you know what that means? Okay, basically, imagine I have 10 M&Ms. If I divide by 2, I have to make two equal groups of M&Ms! Can you think of a way to split 10 M&Ms into two equal groups?

That's right! Five on one side, five on the other! Very good! Here, go ahead and eat them. You deserve a reward, you smart lil' cookie you :3

Okay, next, we need to add 3. Oh no, you ate all of the M&Ms! Don't worry, here's more. Okay, now let's practice counting. Take out oooooone M&M, twooooooo M&Ms, three M&Ms! Now we have added three M&Ms to the five M&Ms! What does that make? Ok, go slow. Take your time.

>...
>...
>...

That's right, eight M&Ms! That's your parry score! Now, don't change it, because that's what you roll against every time you defend!

Yaaaaay, you did it!

>>54524894
I literally never claimed to not be mad. I have myself a bit worked up because I find GURPS players frustrating and pushy, because they wont honestly discuss the merits of their system, instead going for butchered interpretations that you can barely do anything with as though it's a defense of the system when it is in fact just a deflection of criticism. Even GURPS Lite is horribly limited; I'd wager the guy who played a Star Wars game with it didn't do much more complex than fight stormtroopers and probably still had to kitbash a bunch of shit.

>>54524842
Shitty games, mostly.

>>54524922
>criticism with any amount of negativity is automatically worth ignoring

Alright, you raise up that wall and maintain that echo chamber.

>>54524950
I also aint as mad as this guy.

>>54524842
Fudge is about it I think. Bennies are frequently used to smooth out the edges of rules light RPGs.

>>54524991
>criticism with any amount of negativity is automatically worth ignoring
If you want your criticism to be taken seriously, you need to demonstrate what's wrong, specifically, with what you are critiqueing. Saying lots of stuff without giving any specifics is a sure-fire sign that you didn't read the book and are phoning in this essay the night before, young man! See me after class.

>>54524869
I legitimately made a character for a zombie apocalypse game in gurps.

He used grenades filled with gunpowder launched via slingshot. I have yet to find another game with rules for that character.

It wasn't even autistic. I'll quote the very taxing process of making gunpowder.
>sulfur, saltpeter, and charcoal
> explosives(demolition), explosives(fireworks)+4, chemistry+4

Wow so hard, then I just use a sling skill to see if I succeed, it's almost as if gurps is well thought out to go into as little or much detail as you want.

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ITT:

>>54525021
What you're saying is tantemount to saying that the only people who can critique GURPS are fans, because only fans will put in that kind of effort. I played GURPS, it didn't offer anything that a lighter game wouldn't offer if you don't care about positively pedantic levels of detail like >>54524778 for highly specific, weird concepts.

Can you use GURPS to run an OSR game? Yeah, probably, but why do it over Labyrinth Lord or B/X? Can you use GURPS to run an action game? Yeah, but why do it over Fate or Savage Worlds? What if you never, ever want to dial up detail to a level that would have it so GURPS offers an advantage?

>>54524821
>If you haven't seen an overly defensive GURPS player derail a thread
I have. Re-read my post. I just said it's much less common in my anecdotal experience than seeing one derailed by posts like yours upthread.

>Not what I meant.
Okay.

>You know how when you see a criticism of GURPS and you feel the need to defend it relentlessly in an unrelated thread? Don't do that
No? I'm very open to criticism of it as a system, *particularly* in system suggestion threads, as that's where GURPS' weaknesses need to be discussed seriously as a matter of actual importance for any "uninitiated" GM considering it as an option. Often times people ask for something light, and in that case when people suggest GURPS I actively *deflect* the OP from that suggestion and explain why it's more than likely not a good choice for them. I have seen others do the same; fortunately it's growing to a more common practice among the more proactive members of the GURPS community here on /tg/. I'm afraid I can't apologize for not chiming in on every recommendation thread.

I understand your frustrations (I share them doubly as a member of the community who would prefer us not to be viewed generally as obsessed, autistic wankers), but please also try to understand that the posts you're talking about are a vocal and often intentionally antagonistic minority; not representative of those of us who ACTUALLY play and enjoy the system.
Unsurprisingly most of us are actually level-headed and know that GURPS is not, and can never be, the answer to everything. That's just the meme talking. I do have to admit, I think the meme is pretty hilarious though. Doctored images of cults, nazis, sacrifices, frogs and all.

Barring further clashing, I really am genuinely glad you have your own games to have fun with and be positive about. This hobby is about fun, as much of a buzzword as that is. You don't have to love the games me and my players do for us to bask in the communal glory of our shared interests.

>>54525103
>What if you never, ever want to dial up detail to a level that would have it so GURPS offers an advantage?
Then you don't play GURPS, you dumbfuck. That's common sense.

>>54525106
>Barring further clashing, I really am genuinely glad you have your own games to have fun with and be positive about. This hobby is about fun, as much of a buzzword as that is. You don't have to love the games me and my players do for us to bask in the communal glory of our shared interests.

Dude, please stop. You're making me feel like a total jackass. Good job.

Fuck I lost my shit over nothing.

>>54524950
>yaaaay you did it!
Are you normally this much of a condescending prick? Here, compare your faggot abortion of a system to Savage Worlds.

>Instead of dividing your skill rating by three like a fucking dumbass, you halve your Fighting skill and add two to it, giving you a fixed Parry score opponents need to beat to hit you
>Hit points aren't realistic in the slightest, fuck that shit, we have wound levels. Halve your Vigor stat and add two like you did to your Fighting skill, this is your Toughness and works pretty much the same
>Damage that beats your Toughness is enough to shake you, which is a fleshwound or some other minor injury that doesn't do much more than rattle you. Get hit while shaken or by an attack that beats it by four, you lose a wound level
>Every wound level lost is a penalty to your checks, none of that bean-counting shit about the last third of your health
Hope you packed your lunch, we're taking your ass to school

>>54525153
It's okay. We all lose our shit from time to time. Just don't let the endless fountain of spergs on this board drag you down man.

>>54525180
Pfft, I am one of those spergs.

>>54525156
Fixed defenses are stupid
Hp is a cool generalization
What you call bean counting is legit just grade school math, if you have problems with it you probably shouldn't be playing TTRPG's

>>54525023
>using a special sling skill
If I weren't phoneposting this is where I would add an image of mocking laughter

>>54525103
That's fine. The issue (I think; I've lost track of who's trolling who at this point) isn't that people aren't using GURPS, so off to the camps with them. The issue (again, I think) is that people are losing their shit because other people recommend a system that they personally dislike.

If someone comes in asking "GUIS, HOW DO I [X]," one of the responses will assuredly be GURPS. This is because GURPS probably can do [X], and there are people that enjoy the system and want other people to try it out as well. I don't see why that's something worth making a bitchthread for.

>>54525156
>Instead of (performing the wrong calculation), you (perform similar calculation) and (lose granularity and player engagement by making defense a static number)
>I haven't played GURPS so I don't understand how HP works, I think everything uses D&D bloat.
>Wounding system that you (me) don't have a problem with
>Bean-counting means performing a single calculation before the game starts and never changing it unless you specifically buy more of it
No, silly anon-tan, I'm the senpai here >:3 And I'll have you know that Savage Worlds was my favorite system before finding GURPS >___< It was such a breath of fresh air! But then I started reading books like Martial Arts and saw how much cool stuff there was already done for you in GURPS, and that it could run even more things than Savage Worlds, so I made the switch >w<!! And now we're here!

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>>54525209
>I am one of those spergs
Then truly we belong here together.

Have a nice day anon (and you other anons out there too, even if you're still arguing); may your next session always be better than the last.

>>54525217
>Fixed defenses are stupid

Attacks that take more than two rolls to resolve are stupid.

Creating a GURPS character on the level of an SW character, takes a minimum of 50 points, which will continually rise and fall and involve a bunch of sub-modifiers to the costs in the process. Meanwhile, the largest number an SW character will be dealing with is 15, and it wont rise or fall continually during the process, only fall.

And let's not strawman this as being hard. Nobody finds 50 to be a hard number to deal with, the word you are looking for is tedious. Many people don't find character creation fun, and would prefer to minimize it.

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>>54525231
Am phone posting

What you think people should be good with all weapons? That's unrealistic but gurps is happy to have that too. Wildcard skills act like normal skills but let you have the skill level to all the skills covered by it, so marksman! would let you use all ranged weapons

Pic related

>>54525217
>fixed defenses are stupid
Nah, turning every fucking attack into a roll-off and bogging down the game is dumber.
>HP is a cool generalization
In a system that's meant to be a simulationist's paradise? No

>>54525258
>the wrong calculation
>le obnoxious emoticon spam
Please, just kill yourself kouhai. You shame me.

>>54525274
>unrealistic
Realism is for sperger cunts, oh wait this thread is full of them

I use GURPS as a sperg detector whenever I play with a new group of people.

The ones who have played, or have no strong opinion one way or the other, get to stay. The ones who bitch about GURPS but have legitimate complaints presented in a reasonable way, they get to stay too.

The ones who hate it for meme reasons or sperg out at its mention on the other hand, they get the boot. I don't know why, but GURPS is great for exposing THAT GUYS (as this thread has shown) who would've otherwise ruined the campaign and it has served me well for several years as a DM.

Funny thing is, I don't even play GURPS, I've just read a little of it to understand how it works.

>>54525274
>that's unrealistic

If I recall of GURPS' skill divisions correctly, they're pretty unrealistic as well. Providing sharp divides between weapons that aren't substantially different.

>have to use an optional rule to not have a bajillion weapon skills

Or just play a game without a bajillion weapon skills. It doesn't add anything to the game besides reflecting some author's conception of realism (not actual realism, mind you, just the author's conception of it).

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>>54525315
Oh you think my chemistry teacher who slings should be able to shoot a bow? Why, especially zombie apocalypses try to at least be semi-realistic.

>>54525325
>of all the things that have happened, this happened the most

And then everyone in the restaurant started clapping!

>>54525348
And you think that kind of arbitrary mechanical division actually matters? Most games include options for weapon familiarity. Savage Worlds includes a penalty for using skills for shit you aren't reasonably familiar with.

>>54525332
If you don't like how skills are divided, you can simplify them yourself and it wont really affect other parts of the game.

>>54525380
GURPS has that too, retard.

>>54525348
Slings are fucking awkward as all hell, even moreso than bows. And yes, actually. If not that, a crossbow is pretty simple to wield.

>>54525380
You mean the skill specialty rules? I never use them. Can't see the point, especially since piddly shit like Climbing and Swimming should really be rolled into one skill already.

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>>54525380
Gurps has defaults, if I attempted to use a weapon like a sling I'd use my sling skill at a small penalty. Oh wait that's exactly like what you posted, cool

>>54525381
...Or just use a game where I don't have to put in that extra legwork. GURPS has the added disadvantage of becoming completely boring if you simplify it, because it wasn't designed to be run in a light fashion.

>>54525332
I'm not saying this in any way resolves your distaste for the system, but I've played fast-and-loose GURPS games using pointless chargen and Wildcard-only skills (so like, 2-4 per player), plus the fate-point-like Impulse Buys and I've Thought Of That! no-prep rules, and it was just fantastic. I've been really wanting to run another like that for some time. All hyperbole aside it was truly rules-lite and worked great.
I'm not saying you should play it or it addresses your concerns or anything, I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it.

>>54525397
Not really, the idea here is that the penalty goes away if you become familiar with the thing through a training montage or something.

>>54525408
Except if you ever want to use that different weapon, you now have to invest points to eventually learn it, rather than just applying your old skill to it.

>>54525380
>of all the things that have happened, this happened the most
Actually, most people I've gamed with were of the type who either said yes, meh, or no (because reasons) than sperg out.

If I had to give it an actual number, I'd say that around 1 in 15 people end up getting the boot and that's a really rough estimate.

So no, it doesn't happen a lot, but when it does happen, it tends to be more-or-less accurate.

>>54525414
It's not any less boring than games which have the simple skills to begin with, and you have the option of using the harder ones

And there is an entire book of simplified skills just for you, because SJG is cool like that

>>54525458
I'm saying you're full of bologna and don't actually do this, and are merely using this bologna as an attempt to claim anyone with a distaste for GURPS as "that guy." Hence my allusion to one of those 'and then everyone in the restaurant clapped" style stories.

>>54525439
You just have to put points into it, like any other skills.

A good GM would let you get extra points for the skill because of your familiarity

>>54520407
>things that never really happen, the thread

>>54525501
Again, you can just use a system where "Shooting" is the skill, like Savage Worlds or Fate, and then become familiar with the weapon. With no detriment to the game.

I like that GURPS shitstorms usually start off as horrific shit flinging but often get more and more reasonable, until either people are discussing things entirely rationally and congenially or have agreed as a group that they simply have different taste in games and that's okay.

Doesn't happen every time but it happens often enough, and it pleasures me deeply. Yes. In the way you're thinking of.

>>54525332
You are recalling the divisions correctly for the most part, but you're probably forgetting defaults. Instead of having overly-broad skills being the only option, GURPS has more narrow skills BUT lets you roll for closely-related skills at a penalty. For example, while most systems have Medicine or Healing as a skill, GURPS has First-Aid, Diagnosis, Surgery, and Physician. Those skills are closely related, so you can, for example, attempt to perform surgery with First-Aid (albeit at a penalty). This lets skills be retain some breadth.

If that level of granularity isn't necessary for your game, use the Medic! wildcard skill. It keeps things simple and fast and flowing. The options are there to let you differentiate between different types of caregivers like combat medics and traditional doctors with lab coats are clipboards OR ignore that shit and get on with it if different types of doctorin' doesn't fit your game.

>>54525529
Same.

>>54525485
You presume an awful lot about me considering we've never met before. Are you mad because you'd end up being one of the few who gets caught by my sperg detector?

>>54525526
There is legitimately a shooting! skill.

>>54525535
But if you're never going to use that kind of granularity, why bother with GURPS?

>>54525550
Because you like rolling 3d6.

>>54525550
Because there is other stuff than the skills?

Advantages, disadvantages, magic system, tech levels, psionic powers, guns, etc?

>>54525548
And why should I use GURPS over a game already designed for a lighter style of play?

>>54525597
See >>54525580
And >>54525569

>>54525439
Like >>54525501 said. Usually at the end of a session a GM gives you at least 1 point and that's enough to buy a skill. Whether the GM allows you to buy the skill or not is up to him.

>>54525543
Please, if you were advertising a GURPS game I'd just ignore it. I don't care that people play it. People play Pathfinder too; there's no accounting for taste.

>>54525580
You mean things just about every game has without being saddled with GURPS' baggage?

>>54525550
see

>>54525433
>>54524398
>>54524297
>>54524252
>>54524199

There are probably more posted but I'm honestly too lazy to go through and reread this entire thread

>>54525580
>advantages and disadvantages
>what are edges/hindrances, merits/flaws, etc
>magic and psionics
>oh wait almost every other generic system has these
>guns
>ditto, hell Savage Worlds' exploding damage rolls make any shot potentially lethal if you like that sort of thing
>tech levels
>ripped off wholesale from Traveller, which sucks nearly as bad

>>54525617
And in games like SW or Fate, learning to use a bow wont screw your advancement as it would in GURPS.

Give a choice between learning to use a bow, or just investing in the shit I'm already good at, GURPS provides me a strong incentive to just go with the latter.

>>54524545
I masturbate parakeets.

>>54525526
Except that the loss of granularity can lead to weird characters, especially when the character is supposed to be specialized. For example, lets say my guy is specialized in bows. Maybe he grew up in a place (or time) where guns aren't A Thing and bows are still the go-to gear for hunting and fighting at range. Maybe he has trained exclusively in bows for some esoteric reason known only to him. Maybe I just saw The Avengers and want to make not!Hawkeye. Regardless, my character as I have conceived of him is really really good with the bow and just the bow. The system keeping it at a single all-purpose Ranged Combat Skill can lead to weird results like my Mongol archer also being a crack shot with a rifle and a skilled pistolero. The system's lack of granularity works against me in that case.

>>54525651
No it doesn't improving slings would have cost me 4 points whereas gaining bows would have cost 1 point

>>54525673
You a breeder?

>>54525673
Hot.

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>>54520407
I think people just like posting this picture of a frog.

>>54525677
You can start with a high granularity and pare down easily. The reverse is almost impossible most of the time.

I legitimately believe that there are viral marketers for GURPS on this website and it needs to be banned outright.

>>54525677
I can't recall the specific rule, but you take a -2 (a pretty hefty penalty in SW) for doing something with a skill you shouldn't be familiar with doing. You can become a crack shot with a rifle through becoming familiar with it, and that's not an unreasonable outcome.

>>54525680
I know that. You'd be better off saving up those four points to boost the sling than the bow, especially if the sling is already "good enough."

>>54525677
It depends on the setting. In a medieval fantasy setting there are no firearms to worry about, so your point is moot. In a setting where there are guns it's assumed your character knows the basics of pointing them at what he wants dead and pulling the trigger.
>but I don't think he'll ever use t-
Then don't have him use them. It's that simple.

>>54525650
Oh so they have multiple different ways of doing magic and psionics, entire books of alt systems in fact?

/k/ levels of guns

Entire books about the different tech levels written by people who know what they are talking about?

>>54525718
What makes you think that?

>>54525629
I don't advertise a GURPS game, I simply mention it in conversation and ask people if they've played and if so, their opinion on it.

If I just advertised a game right out the gate, the spergs would get scared off and ruin someone else's game. So instead, I namedrop it in casual conversation when they aren't expecting it and since spergs generally have a rough time adapting to unexpected changes in their environment, they end up revealing themselves almost immediately because there's nothing more that spergs love to do than to show you how right they are in their opinions.

>>54525651
>learning to use a bow wont screw your advancement as it would in GURPS
That's not really how the system works.

>Give a choice between learning to use a bow, or just investing in the shit I'm already good at, GURPS provides me a strong incentive to just go with the latter
No, it provides you increasing incentive to do the opposite and broaden your skillset (to a point; then the most advantageous solution becomes raising the base attribute). The reason for this is the way that modifiers work; the higher your skill becomes, the more your points invested become diminished returns beyond soaking penalties.

That said, if your goal is to be Legolas with a bow or whatever, yeah probably most of your points are gonna go into Bow. But I think that's also kind of the point of the character concept?

Also, none of this is discussing the Learning system, which is independent of spending points. So you can practice a sword in your downtime or whatever (or adventuring, which counts as more time invested) and get good at it without spending your earned points.

Lastly, familiarities are a thing which act like the way you described, where you invest some time and the penalty just goes away for the item in question; but those are specific to each Skill and are a higher level of granularity, so probably not something you're interested in hearing about or relevant to this specific topic anyway.

P.S. don't get mad at me for replying to you, I'm not saying you have to like the skill system I'm just saying it kinda works differently from how you think it does.

>>54525718
Haha wow.

>100 point character
>leave all stats at base
>set aside 20 points for peripheral skills
>put 80 points into Rifles
>now have DX+21 in Rifles since skill cost doesn't escalate
>can take a couple minor disadvantages to have DX+25 if I feel like it
>now I have a 35 in Rifles skill
>WITHOUT aiming I can headshot a running target at 200 yards and still be rolling against 17
>with aiming I can do it even further out, or in darkness

Explain why this game ISN'T broken.

>>54525677
>>54525719
Familiarization, it's at the start of the skills chapter. There's a more in-depth variant called Skill Specializations. I have never looked at them.

>>54523398
>best general
>That's like saying it has the best watery shit.
Honestly, I've brought up issues and questions to GURPS gen and not only had them answered, but didn't have a bunch of people calling me a shitty GM or a social justice warrior.

>>54525719
Yea but if I want to get good at a bow it wouldn't be hard

Say I had 4 points and sling 13

I could boost sling to 14, or I could get bow to 12, and buy anouther perk or easy skill

It's cool

>>54525738
>thingsthathappened.jpg

Kay.

>>54525762
That's a fantastic pasta.

>>54525740
I'm not mad. I just don't see a point to all that fucking around. It's a simple concept that GURPS makes unnecessarily complicated.

>>54525818
I guess it's complicated on paper, but in practice it's simple.

>>54525734
No, because that's autism that has nothing to do with what you should be doing at the table, which is having fun and telling a story.

There are multiple methods for powering magic in SW, although when you get down to it psionics and spellcasting use the same basic underlying framework. Not a lot in the way of gunporn and the corebook will make any /k/ommando rage (protip, swap the AK and G3 statlines) but hopefully Ghost Ops will fix that.

Who the fuck gives a shit about tech levels when you can condense that shit down to a few sentences and extrapolate from those?

>>54525788
I am thankful for your sake that you've never had to deal with a sperg who had to proudly announce how right their opinion was on something and I hope you never have to witness the horror of it during your lifetime.

It doesn't matter if you believe me or not, I know how effective it is and whether or not you adopt it yourself makes no difference to me.

>>54525818
It doesn't I could just forget about it, but if I want to use it, it exists making my job as a gm easier

>>54525762
I don't like GURPS and I've gotta admit that this pasta is a bit absurd.

>>54525843
It's more complicated than "-2 that goes away with a training montage" and accomplishes the same aim while screwing with advancement.

>>54525851
In what way does increasing the book-keeping of downtime and character advancement make your job easier?

>>54525844
What happens if I want to use a weapon like a sai? Tonfa? Other games I'd have to use other weapons for stats, but in gurps I have rules for all of those.

They also include stats for power generation, housing, entertainment and food, as well as many other things.

It has all of this so you don't have to guess, not simply autism for autism's sake

>>54525818
Well while I disagree that it's 'unnecessarily' complicated as a general statement, your perspective is certainly valid and I can understand your complaints and the points you made previously. In your case I would say GURPS as a system will probably continue to rub you the wrong way and most of it would probably feel 'unnecessary' or needlessly complex, and it doesn't sound like it would add anything to your experience.

>>54525897
>tonfa or sai
Str+1d6. There. Done.

>stats for power generation
>not simply autism for autism's sake
Are you fucking reading your own posts?

>>54525897
All of GURPS' rules are great for two reasons: It helps bad GMs by letting them RELY ON THE SYSTEM instead of trying to make their own rules, and it provides incredible internal consistency well past the point where most games would be a shuddering, sobbing wreck.

GURPS also actually allows you to run games with a bunch of different splatbooks concurrently. Can't mix Werewolf, Vampire, and Hunter, because the systems already shit the bed on their own. I can mix werewolves, vampires, and monster hunters in GURPS, because GURPS has the internal consistency to make it viable. And goddamn is it fun.

>>54525809
Yes it is. I love that new permutations pop up every now and then in the General. I honestly which I'd saved all the pasta I saw a few weeks ago because I haven't seen any of it posted since (accompanied by hipster images), and it was almost all purely brilliant OC. Honestly hope those posts resurface at some point.

>>54525952
>can't mix werewolf, vampire and hunter
Again, someone hasn't read nWoD 1e!

>>54523310
Fucking duh. New here?

>>54525844
>No, because that's autism that has nothing to do with what you should be doing at the table, which is having fun and telling a story
Not him; I'm not saying you have to like GURPS, but the point is that you *don't* do any of that at the table. Gameplay *is* having fun and telling the story, as much as with any other game.

That's all just chargen stuff, which of course does require more legwork in GURPS than many systems for people with weird powers or whatever.

>>54525897
I'm afraid you're out of luck on the Sai. Sorry dude. I'll admit that as a fault of the system.

There's a fan made system for building weapons called Savage Armory, but I can't really bring it up as a defense of the system.

Tonfas are just a club aren't they?

Generally for power generation, you take powers and apply trappings to them. The same guy that did those weapon creation rules converted a bunch of 3.5 spells as examples, I'm sure you could figure out most things through that. There's also a super powers companion that's fairly robust (though I'll admit it's lacking in some things, mainly summoning anything beyond basic mooks).

>>54525944
First off that makes all the different weapons boring and offers no incentive for using anything off the beaten path

Power generation isn't autistic, it have a generator tells me about its fuel, then tells me how much it powers like "a house" or "large city"

>>54525944
Some game master want to include accurate portrayals of power infrastructure in their game, and some GURPS books provide such information. For those not interested, they can simply disregard it.

>>54526003
I'd just have the sai's prongs grant +1 Parry.

>>54526027
That's fine, use GURPS. If you want a lot of nuance, GURPS would probably be a fine choice.

>>54522036
yeah really.

>>54526027
That's the only thing I find GURPS books useful for: as textbooks for better games.

>>54526024
It is. Exactly when is it going to matter to the players how many fucking jizzawatts your generator spunks out per second? And I'm using ejaculation references because frankly this kind of thing is largely intellectual masturbation

>>54526072
You are the biggest faggot in this thread.

>>54526098
:)

>>54526089
>That's the only thing I find GURPS books useful for: as textbooks for better games
>better games
I think what you meant to say was "games I like more than GURPS."

But yes, GURPS books are great references for lots of other systems. Except stuff like Amber Diceless, really narrow but interesting games like that.

>>54526089
Since when did pursuit of knowledge become autistic? Is this what clapburgers actually believe?

>>54526089
What if I wanted to make a compound for an apocalypse, I could have it powered by a gas generator and then have them go and get fuel for it.

You see?

>>54526089
You're still using a GURPS book :)

>>54521958
It has no flavor.

>>54526153
>>54526104
>>54526072
>>54525977
pls go

>>54526153
You have no flavor.

>>54526130
>pursuit of knowledge
>in a fucking PnP game

This is /tg/. We have plenty of people with college educations and autodidacts of varying quality, loving learning is pretty normal here, even if we're mostly kinda thick. But how many kilowatts an hour you're going to get out of a generator is a pretty wanky thing to know in a game, since most games do just fine with an abstraction (can hook this many points of shit up to it) and any attempt to realistically model it would still wind up glossing over shit continually (fuel quality, mechanical failure, atmospheric conditions affecting output, etc.) anyway.

>>54522429
nah it's trash

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>>54526172

>>54526135
Then you could just have your players estimate the amount of fuel needed to keep it going with a Smarts/Intelligence/whatever check instead of sperging around with exact figures.
>>54526130
>implying I'm from clapistan

>>54522501
12s are better than 10s

I enjoy playing GURPS. To me it's one of those systems that's found that elusive equiplibrium of having just the right amounts of complexity and depth without going off the deep end and it's easily the system in which I've had the most fun as a player.

I've only recently started playing it as a GM and beyond having trouble fitting what I have in my mind into gameplay-girls, it's been a rarther smooth ride so far.

>>54522649
what's sjg

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would gurps work for an earthbound or MOTHER like setting?

>>54520940
>People are so engrained in number crunching and min-maxing
What that is all GRRPS is about. It is a min/maxer dream come true

>>54523181
Everything I said is objectively correct. Try actually playing the games, faggot.

>>54526236
Yea pick up psionic powers, powers, and high tech.

But the basic set would work too

>>54526184
How is it wanky? Why is wanting to know how many kilowatts the doomsday machine requires a wanky thing? That sounds exactly like the sort of cool stuff /tg/ would love, or are you forgetting about all of the "autistic" things roleplayers have made? Bag of holding meets portable hole arrow? Undead computer? Rape factory? Sure, you laugh those off as jokes, but when someone takes the time and effort to do something like this, we appreciate it, marvel at it, think about how we can use it for our games. We're inspired by it.

Why are you shitting on somebody trying to be inspired? On somebody's fun?

>>54526171
no :)

>>54523540
yeah it is

>>54523838
not going anywhere, GURPS is trash :)

>>54526254
Because the rape factory was actually funny. Your jizzawatt(fuck, I love that word)-powered doomsday device is just dull. Especially since the fun part about doomsday devices is what they do, not whether it's powered by a nuclear reactor or one of those shitty gas-powered things.

>>54525767
But you probably are a shitty GM and social justice warrior

>>54526238
It's more like a rollplayer dream come true, since it has mechanics for fucking everything. So that brand of gamer that refuses to do anything that isn't on his sheet will love it.

But minmaxing in GURPS is stupid, because you can destroy the universe in less than 100 points with GURPS.

>>54526254
It's wanky because what matters is the doomsday machine, what it will do, and how they'll stop it.

>Bag of holding meets portable hole arrow? Undead computer? Rape factory?

I'll be honest, I'm about half a step away from pounding a "no fun" sign into the ground, because I hate literally every single one of those. I thought they were stupid then, and I think they're stupid now.

>Why are you shitting on somebody trying to be inspired? On somebody's fun?

Oh go away. I already told you to play GURPS if that level of detail is your thing, but I doubt even GURPS will provide it. I think it's dumb and wont enhance the game, in fact that kind of detail tends to just bog the game down.

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>>54526291
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>>54526295

Your hard work in imploding this whimpering drivel of a thread has not gone unnoticed, honorable soul.

>>54526306
Wow, I didn't think anyone could be mad at the skeleton computer.

You are a WRONG BAD FUN dude, just take a chill pill.

If this thread has taught me anything it's that gurps hater are more autistic than gurps players, by a considerable margin.

>>54526386
I'm not mad at them. I just don't like them. There's a difference man.

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>>54526293
>Figuring out how to disable a doomsday device isn't part of the fun
>But figuring out the losing condition is

>>54526306
>how they'll stop it.
And knowing how it's powered is a factor in that.

>I hate literally every single one of those.
Anon, I...

>>54526386
Fellow GURPS player here; IMHO you are acting pretty autistic too. I would never track all the stuff you've been talking about and I agree with the other guy on a lot of stuff. But to each his own, no offense intended (seriously).

>>54526293
>Your jizzawatt(fuck, I love that word)-powered doomsday device is just dull...in my opinion.
>>54526306
>I think it's dumb and wont enhance the game, in fact that kind of detail tends to just bog the game down...in my opinion
FTFY

Not the guy you're talking to btw, I just generally dislike people listing "flaws" that boil down to personal preference as actual marks against the system. Like, if someone said "legos is fucking so autistic, who wants to spend hours recreating a life-sized storm trooper?" would you honestly think that that's a flaw against legos or that the person saying it is someone you should listen to?

Of course not, if people want to recreate a storm trooper out of legos, fucking go for it. If you want to know the minutia of creating a doomsday weapon in a tabletop game down to the fuel economy, fucking go for it.

If that's not your cup of tea, it doesn't make either of those things relatively simple to play around with either.

>>54526409
>And knowing how it's powered is a factor in that.

Yeah but knowing the precise kilowatts/hour it takes for that is not.

>Anon, I...

Hey man. I ignored the threads like a good boy. I only came into this thread to bitch because it is indeed a thread for bitching.

>>54526409
>figuring out how to disable the doomsday device
Does it matter what's powering it when a couple of blocks of C4 will fix its wagon pretty quick?

>>54526424
Oh get off your high horse. I told him to play GURPS (which I'm not actually sure if even GURPS goes into that level of detail) if that kind of shit matters to him, but I'd be willing to bet and entire box of donuts that kind of minutiae would just bog a game down.

>>54526437
It doesn't tell the power in watts, it says stuff like
>powers a "small house" or "city"

It just lets you know what stuff is powered by, and what kind of fuel is required, and how much a generator costs

>>54526437
>Yeah but knowing the precise kilowatts/hour it takes for that is not.
I get satisfaction from knowing it. Knowing it informs me on other aspects of its design. If it requires enough juice to power three city blocks, that means something much different from blowing the circuit of a house and much different from starting up a decommissioned Soviet NPP that's just as dangerous as the doomsday device itself.

>>54526454
>Does it matter what's powering it when a couple of blocks of C4 will fix its wagon pretty quick?
See above. Also, going loud might not be an option.

>>54526506
>going loud might not be an option
That's what remote detonators are for, sperglord

>>54526530
No, I mean, might not be an option at all. It could have a failsafe that activates it in case of being tampered with, like being exploded, but that failsafe might have an oversight, like not accounting for the power going out. If it relies on a nuclear power plant, like I said above, then having the power cut might just not enter the loony engineer's mind.

And now I have a game idea! Thanks, anon, even if this conversation wasn't fruitful for you. Time to open up GURPS Disasters and Meltdowns...

>>54526499
Pretty much every game does shit like that.

>>54526506
I don't know if any game has ever gone into that precise kind of detail. Do you want to know how many BTUs a plasma rifle can put out too?

>>54526530
Ok tell me how much a external detonator costs?

C4?

What it takes to make C4?

>>54526569
>Do you want to know how many BTUs a plasma rifle can put out too?
If it becomes necessary, or if I just get curious, I can. GURPS!

>>54520407
Despite the meme responses your op has surely gotten:

Answer:
>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/54363173/#54363173
For many in tg, gurps is one of their favorite systems.

>>54526479
Well how are you going to send those donuts because let me tell you, if the table is interested in the minutia of figuring out the fuel economy of a doomsday weapon, the game will never be bogged down.

I mean, let's be honest here, looking at most games that people consider "popular" on this board, you'll find that there's a lot of games on the market that are way too complicated for a recreational game, and yet people will not only play those games, but convince others to play as well in order to bolster their community.

I mean fuck, have you SEEN YGO recently?

>>54526586
Not even GURPS will tell you that.

>>54526562
Blow up the failsafe. Hell, blow up the systems that allow it to be activated at all.
Look at it this way: nobody has ever given a fuck about the power supply of a Metal Gear, they just know it's a big slightly silly nuke-toting mech that needs to be stopped.

>>54526582
I don't know, something else that's entirely irrelevant to the plot?

>>54526621
What the fuck is YGO?

>>54526650
Yu-Gi-Oh

>>54526650
Yu-Gi-Oh, or as it's more commonly known, Black People MtG. I'm only half shitposting.

>>54526647
You need to know how to get explosives if you plan to blow things up.

Sure you can just skip it narratively but what's the fun in that

>>54526710
>what's the fun in that
>better autistically go through every single stage of scouring the black market or filling out requisition forms!

>>54526733
>Implying scouring the black market can't be a quest in and of itself.

>>54526582
>$50

>$30 per pound

>from High-Tech p. 186:
>Producing home-made plastic explosives requires $50 in raw materials per pound, 12 hours’ work, and a Chemistry or Explosives (Demolition) roll. Failure means the plastique is unstable (-4 to all Explosives rolls to use the stuff), weak (halve damage), smelly (detected on an unmodified Smell roll), and/or inert (simply won’t blow up). Critical failure detonates the whole batch for full damage! See also Plastic Explosives (pp. 185-186).

>>54526757
See it let's you make fun sidequests

Chemist can track down stuff
Cop can try to find a supplier
Thief can try to scour the black market

>>54526757
It can be, but I have a plot to move along here. Besides, nobody is going to risk being caught with C4 unless they intend on blowing something up with it pretty soon, so fannying around with a subquest isn't really a great idea since they know the superweapon exists and they want it blown to shit before it can be set off.

>>54526847
>It can be, but I have a plot to move along here.
>Implying scouring the black market shouldn't be a part of the plot.
So what, every party should just start off with the macguffin needed to kill the Big Bad every single time? I mean, you could make a point of saying that going for the four elemental crystals in a Final Fantasy game should be skipped too since the main point of the game is killing Garland.

So tell me, why is finding the crystals in FF okay but finding C4 to take out the super weapon isn't?

>>54520940
What even are you on about?

The breadth of GURPS rules that are optional definitely runs a simulationist bent. Min-maxing and munchkining are acknowledged by the core books, and some of the books encourage it, like Dungeon Fantasy, which plays like a _good_ AD&D. The combat doesn't need to be detailed at all, and realism is easily supplanted by cinematic rules that are right in the core rulebook. Fast and loose is really easy to do, just ignore some of the rules. The combat outlined by the (free) 31 page LITE pdf that SJGames provides is pretty fucken barebones, and still allows for a lot of really cool maneuvers.

The biggest thing about the combat is that it _feels_ so fucking good. You have a deep variety of strategic options, and an incredible amount of agency. Even the LITE pdf has sufficiently comfy combat rules. If you _want_ to go hog wild, you definitely can, as an option.

However, in my experience it also has the most robust, and simultaneously easiest, roleplaying and story mechanics for its characters. Other narrativist games might run smoother for story, but I like what GURPS has going. Limitations breed creativity, and that's exactly what Disadvantages are: limitations on how you roleplay a character. You get real, mechanical reward for outlining how your character thinks and behaves. That eyepatch that the war-veteran wears isn't just a cosmetic feature. That's fucken great.

>>54526926
>glossing over what is a minor detail in the leadup to a campaign-ending event is totally unacceptable, especially when there's a time limit involved
You know as well as I do that most PCs would narrow this down to finding the most likely people to sell the shit, then making them fellate their guns until they hand over the explosives.

Also because unique elemental crystals are far harder to come by than something pretty much every military has a stockpile of.

>>54527076
>You know as well as I do that most PCs would narrow this down to finding the most likely people to sell the shit, then making them fellate their guns until they hand over the explosives.
So because you play games with ADD riddled monkeys with itchy trigger fingers, it means that the concept of actually playing out the acquisition of C4 to destroy a superweapon is poor form?

If acquiring C4 is that easy to do, that honestly says more about your skill as a GM than any flaws in the concept, leading to my next point.
>Also because unique elemental crystals are far harder to come by than something pretty much every military has a stockpile of.
Do you honestly think that raiding a military compound is going to be that fucking easy, especially to acquire explosives?

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>>54522202
Fucken seriously. cononical conversion scale is right in the front of the only book you actually need to play.

>>54523077
That's because LITE doesn't include all the cinematic rules that jack up the comedy level and cut the seriousness off at the knees.

>>54524095
>That's not a complete game, fuck off.

1) You're assblasted as fuck about this, aren't you?

2) His post of the core rules had no flavor, advantages, disadvantages, etc, but that was literally all I used to GM a Xena: Warrior Princess game, and then three hours later, GM a Shadowrun game, and my players didn't miss a fucking beat.

Seriously, the _rest_ of the basic set is pretty much just "here's why you'd use this" and "here are difficulty modifiers/bonuses for you to use this".

For the unwashed, character creation can be daunting, just like any game. Give them a template which has specific instructions of "put points into this, choose one of these" and it's simpler than a lot of OSR material, and certainly simpler than D&D.

Seriously, it took me less time to teach my girlfriend and another neophyte to play GURPS and make a character than it did for us to make D&D characters. You better believe it played more smoothly than D&D did last saturday night.

>>54527753
I'm assblasted as fuck that GURPS fans wont discuss the merits of their system honestly, instead trying to butcher it into some sort of caricature that nobody actually plays. If you actually reference those rules in the books, you get a heavy fucking game.

>>54527834
>"If you use more rules in this modular system, the game you're playing will have more rules."

Holy shit.

Oh boy it's another

>ITT: People who haven't played GURPS try and tell people who do the problems with their system.

>>54527871
The game isn't as modular as you dishonest wankers like to make it sound, the only stripped down version of it offered is a fucking incomplete joke, and fucking nobody uses it stripped down like that. I don't believe for one second that was the extent of the rules you used in a combat heavy game like that, you lying fuck.

I also don't believe it was any easier to teach than D&D, since they're about equal in mechanical complexity.

>>54527892
>it's another "you've got to eat shit to know it tastes bad" episode

Yawn.

>>54527834
>If you use more rules, the game becomes more complicated.
Stop the fucking presses, holy shit.

I also love how this is only an issue with GURPS, but not with shit like 3.PF where using splats is practically mandatory to design a martial character who is worth a damn.

>>54527926
Considering most of the shit people are complaining about with the system is wrong or outright misunderstandings on how the rules work, I'm sure a lot of issues that people ITT have with GURPS would be solved if they actually bothered playing it.

>>54527930
GURPS isn't played without more rules, because it becomes a bland drag that offers nothing over any other system. The only thing GURPS offers is obsessive detail for pedantic gamers.

>D&D 3.5

Is complete and utter garbage. Try again.

>>54527910
>I don't believe for one second that was the extent of the rules you used in a combat heavy game like that, you lying fuck.
That depends on the flavor of combat, friend. You most certainly can run oldschool D&D combat with those rules. If you want to include hit locations, tactical combat, grappling, and so on, you're willingly adding complexity to the combat of your games because you, personally, want them to have more detail. What was posted above seems to have been good enough for >>54527753, and other people in the thread have said as much, too. Why is it so hard for you to accept that some people play really light versions of GURPS? Is it because it doesn't fit your narrative?

As for it being easier to teach than D&D, it's certainly easier to teach than 5e. "Here's 3d6. You roll that whenever you want to do something, from jumping chasms to blocking dragon's breath. Sometimes you roll HT in combat to not go unconscious. Let's play." Boom. Done.