What is a good alternative to 5e? i am looking for: Better skill

>
That it can be high power but that players dont become behemots that dont care about npcs and other things just because they can shit things up easily with powers and dice rolls

That's nothing to do with the system. If your players stop caring about NPC's the second they can somehow ignore or overpower them, which ruleset you choose isn't going to help.

>>54429350
Check Shadow of the Demon Lord.

Personally, I think it's more or less what 5e should have been.

Just look out to not cut yourself with the edge.

I would recommend looking at Runequest or GURPS. In either system player characters can't resolve 100% of problems on their own, and will have to look at other solutions like NPCs. The skill system and character creation in both are a clip ahead of 5E. Also what >>54429512 said, along with Fantasy Craft. SotDL is underrated and it might be exactly what you are looking for.

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>>54429350
4e

serious post.

>>54429512
>>54429528
Played SOTDL once it was an edge fest but i liked it, and about fantasy craft i dont know much about it have read the corebook but didnt got an idea of how it would be in play

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>>54429546
4e skill system is basically the same as 5e, so I'm thinking it's a no-go for OP.

Although, characters are a fair bit more limited and less immortal... until epic. And maybe skill powers and the minor bonuses from backgrounds and stuff could mean the difference?

Either way, if he likes the tactical combat aspect, there's also Strike!

>>54429662
>4e skill system is basically the same as 5e
What?

>>54429350
Pathfinder done glhf

>>54429704
Skills auto scale (at twice the rate admittedly), and you select skills you are trained in.

It's basically the same system with slightly different math expectation behind it.

>>54429729
>Pathfinder
>hf
choose one, anon.

>>54429546
Why not 13th Age?

>>54430790
it haves no grid combat

>>54430790
Bad class design, bad math.

>>54430815
I believe Wizards released a theatre of the mind combat system approach. May be wrong on that. Unless, that's not what you're going for.

>>54430790
I second 13th Age, but that's assuming that OP's definition of a "better" skill system can include more abstraction and mother-may-I mechanics. Some people don't like that and OP should be made aware.

>>54430790
The escalation die is the gayest rule I've ever seen.

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D&D 3.5

>>54434198
>not putting game of thrones in the shit tier category

come on, its popular now, put it down to trigger some fellow shitposters

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>>54429350

>>54434198
> Fate in Ok Tiver

Dropped

>>54434198
>FATAL

okay now i know this is a bait image

>>54434527
he said better skill system, anon.
not an absolute clusterfuck of several skill systems.

rifts

>>54429350
Fantasy Craft

Skills are widely expanded upon.

Character options out the wazoo.

Campaign qualities to tweak power levels, magic rules, creature deadliness, etc.

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>>54434198
>Official list
>Missing WFRP

>>54429350
3.5e

>>54434198
That awkward moment when the bait image is right about Dungeon World and the Cypher System

>>54429350
DragonQuest

>>54436476
Sell me on it. What does it do different from D&D and its ilk?

>>54435779
Kind of meaningless when it doesn't put D&D 3.5 and PF on that tier, too.

>>54429764
>Pathfinder
>Path of War, Spheres of Power, Avowed
>Everyone's a crazy mystical martial artist, without all of the narrative-breaking magic bullshit

>>54429512
>>54429561
I too would highly recommend Shadow of the Demon Lord. Character creation is quick and fun (and involves alot of random tables), there's horror elements, there's is a wide variety of class options (As you go from level 0 to 10 you pick up 3 character classes so there's a massive amount of customization). And it's as edgy as you want it to be, but I sort of look at the edginess as somewhat tongue in cheek.

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>>54429350
Mythras, Classic Fantasy Supplement.

Something that many people have had success with in the past is playing DnD, but level capping the players at level 6 and anytime they would gain a level they get to pick a feat instead.

Characters end up as incredibly skilled and capable adventurers but are still mortal and need to use tactics and team work to take on more powerful enemies. Spellcasters stay balance with martial classes and also can't access most of their game breaking high level abilities. It lets you dig deep into the rules for all the optional stuff like NPC followers, Rituals, and other things that will allow your players to be creative in how they handle difficult challenges. I know for certain this works great and fixes many of the problems with 3.5, and I'm sure it could certainly work for 5e.

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>>54439020
Thirding shadow of the demon lord. I mean just check out character creation.

Homebrew

>>54429350
Mythras

>>54439068

You can also try core Mythras, which would be a lot less like like D&D than Classic Fantasy (which is "How to D&D with a RuneQuest-based system").

Either way, you get a pretty damn good skill system that serves as the core of the game's mechanics. Classic Fantasy has fewer classes than 5e, but allows for a lot of flexibility with how you build your characters. Core Mythras, having originally been RuneQuest 6, doesn't have classes at all. Both Classic Fantasy and base Mythras factor your character's cultural background into character creation; you get extra skill points to spend on cultural skills.

Combat is made more interesting than "I hit it with my weapon" by using special effects. If you roll well enough on a combat roll, you get to add an extra effect to your attack or parry. These include anything from impaling someone on your spear, throwing sand in their eyes to blind them, finding an opening to back off or close in to put the enemy at a more favourable range, or choosing where to hit someone. Mythras combat uses hit locations, so characters sustain specific injuries as a fight goes on, making combat quite dangerous and brutal even for experienced characters.

CF's magic system is a sort of hybrid. The spells themselves are D&D-inspired, and split into spell levels, but casting spells requires spending Magic Points and making skill rolls, RuneQuest-style. The Mythras book itself has five magic systems: Folk Magic (minor utility spells that anyone can learn), Animism (working with spirits), Theism (calling on the gods), Sorcery (learned spells that have a bit of flexibility), and Mysticism (crazy monk shenanigans, mostly buffing your skills and giving yourself powers).

Between magic and skills, a character can get quite powerful, but they'll never have a great deal of hit points, and so will always have to at least a bit careful of the world around them.

>>54429350
Pathfinder is basically exactly what you described. Just needs a good group of not munchkins.

>>54442207
>Just needs a good group of not munchkins.
So it's basically nothing as he described.

>>54434198
This isnt even good bait. It seems to have been assembled totally at random.

>>54439068
Ive see you shilling Mythras all over this board: is there a way to play that keeps me from having to explain 100+ pages of mediocre "original fantasy" elements to my players?

>>54442422
What "original fantasy" elements are you talking about? It's a setting-neutral system. Unless you're talking specifically about Classic Fantasy, then it's just straight D&D fantasy

>>54442463
I thought Mythras was the one with the doughnut steel tie-dye elves. Which one is that?

Also, PDF?

>>54442483

You're probably thinking of Glorantha, which is the setting for most editions of RuneQuest, which Mythras was originally one of. It was setting-neutral even when it was RuneQuest 6, though. Also, Glorantha is awesome.

>>54442483
Maybe you're talking about Glorantha? Elves are plant-people that come in different colors. Doughnut doesn't fit tho. Regardless, Mythras has nothing to do with it.

I have a physical book so I cant help you there, but you can grab a free version of the rules here: http://thedesignmechanism.com/resources/TDM110%20Mythras%20Imperative.pdf

>>54442534
>>54442535
Immediate Cons
>Hit locations
>Experience modifiers
>Wall of skills
>D100

Pros:
>Only 32 pages

Its not for me by a long shot, but it certainly looks better than normal D&D.

>>54439673
Do you have a printer friendly rule book?!
gimmegimme pls :O

>>54429528
GURPS and Runequest while good games aren't really DnD

>>54444403
Sorry, slightly too big to upload.

>>54444717
can't you upload it somewhere else?
please? ;_;

>>54434969
is fantasy craft a complete game? also how crunchy would you say it is?

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Now i am between Runequest/Mythras, GURPS,FantasyCraft and some dudes said Minisix/D6 Fantasy could work

So to dicide this shit, how could one create a Frogman in each system?

>>54447568
Not sure about Mythras, but GURPS has frogmen in the Dungeon Fantasy set, and Fantasy Craft has swamp clutch Saurians who are just frogmen.

>>54447463
Fantasy Craft is ~94% (+/- 2% depending on preferences) complete. The main book is complete for most adventures, while the expansion book rounds out options for more esoteric builds and adds another class of classes.

Detractors say that there aren't enough spell options, and while there is only one dedicated arcane caster in the main book, there are many divine classes and over 45 pages of spell from the main book alone. The arcane supplement (and probable last expansion) has been delayed by FAGGOTS NOT BUYING THE BEST GODDAMN SYSTEM (having a better selling system that is tied to a book fanbase and being a very small company). However, in-development pieces of this product have been leaked, giving us four new arcane classes and well over 300 new and revamped spells (A-H is exactly 300, I just didn't want to keep counting the rest).

FC is medium crunch. One of the selling points of the game is modularity. You can make it crunchier by using every subsystem or you can make it simpler by taking very few. Parity is maintained mostly regardless of the subsystems employed.

>>54447568
This feat.
SWAMP CLUTCH
Prerequisites: Saurian, Level 1 only
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus with Swim checks and aquatic I (The NPC may hold his breath for a number of minutes equal to 15 × his Constitution score.). You also gain regeneration 1 (The character heals 1 point of damage per round, choosing whether to heal subdual, vitality, or a wound), though only while completely submerged in water. Finally, you also gain Achilles heel (heat): When the character suffers damage of the specified type (see page 209) or source (such as a weapon category, NPC Type, etc.), he also suffers an equal amount of lethal damage).

Second tier feat.
SWAMP CREST
Prerequisites: Swamp Clutch
Benefit: You gain natural defense (lethal damage): Each time a character hits the character with an unarmed or melee attack, he must make a Reflex save (DC 15) or suffer 1d6 lethal damage.

>>54448476
how does power scale in fantasy craft? you know normally in 5e or 3.5 players have like 4-6 encounters a day, and it decided to make only the last one challenging, how is in this game?

>>54429729
is it real that wizards dominate the game?

>>54450173
Not entirely. Clerics and Druids are overpowered too. The game designers explicitly don't care about making things balanced, and would rather pander to munchkins.

>>54449005
I'll give you a longer post later, when I don't have pressing things to do. But, suffice to say, I need a slightly better description of power scale to answer your question.

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>>54447568
You did not ask for this.

I did it anyway, because this is my way of the Strikefag!

>>54450739
I have to admit, that is pretty nice.

>>54450268
In 5e characters can be killed by almost everything at first level and 2/3 encounters a day are mortal, but at level 3 they can go easily taking bigger risk

also how they acquire game changing skills/abilities/spells like jumping mountains or big fireball

one more question would be is how fluid is the system on play

>>54450739
Hey i like this

>>54451279
>>54450985
Awesome!

I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

>>54453249
yep just bumping waiting for the fantasycraft guy

>>54451263
There is no hard and fast Monster Manual for FC. Rather, DMs will create a monster by grabbing abilities that fit their creation and assigning them grades for their stats. This determines their base XP cost, which gives you a general idea of how tough the NPC is. Then, the DM determines if the NPC is Special (i.e. similar to a PC) or a 'mook'; Special NPCs are generally harder to kill and are story related. Then, depending on the level of difficulty that the adventure is set at, with the range of difficulty going from 1 to 5 (2 is 'normal'), the final stats are generated. This sounds complicated but it is easier in practice and gives a very wide range of ways to tweak difficulty.

>To sum: it's up to your DM whether everything will kill you at first level.

It's also his discretion on how many encounters per day. I've had a dungeon at level 2 in which there were 5 encounters in the few hours it took to finish it and my party was just fine. I've also had my party come across a single encounter and limped away with several grievous injuries at level ~7.

There are power jumps for every class at 4-6, 10 and a very powerful ability at 14.

As for the ability to simply invalidate encounters or terrain. At level 6 (spending a second character option to enable this) a Mage can cast certain spells to go over or skip terrain alone, but a mountain would drain that Mage's whole pool of casts about halfway. Those casts also don't replenish unless the DM says that they do, as they're tied to scenes rather than 'short/long rests'. A big fireball would be level 13, also with spending a second character option.

For a general answer, this system never gets to the point of being superheroic level.

>>54453999
Might check it out, the lack of monster manual is kinda lame

>>54456622
I still don't understand why people see no monster manual as a downside. I mean, there's over 30 pages of pregen'd adversaries, but it's so easy to make creatures.

I want my Final Fantasy style fire elementals to explode on death; Death Throes quality.
I want my giant ants to be able to see the PCs as long as one of them still have eyes; Hive Mind quality.
I want my city-dwelling mind-suckers to be able to move about without worrying about being seen; Invisibility quality.
I want to swarm the PCs with illusions that dispel at the slightest touch; Mook quality.

>>54456743
Because 3.x and other high complexity systems (is FC one? I don't know), where making monsters takes ages to do if you follow all the rules.

>>54430790
The 13th age doesn't even have skills RAW. Just let you pick the background and then argue if it's relevant. The game has some good points but seriously fuck that.
>>54434186
>The escalation die is the gayest rule I've ever seen.

Maybe you should stop sucking dick and play more games?

But yeah it is fairly pointless. All I can say is it good if a battle drags on for too long without either side making progress.

>>54434731
Ha.

The proficiency systems is pretty good actually. That's not good design but it's a lot more playable you'd think.

Hell even the infamous "speed factor" initiative rules work fairy work. Casting high-level spells comes with a much needed penalty.

The biggest problem is how atrociously bad it's edited.

>>54459033
It's not super complex, but the generation process is:
What do you want the stat line to be? SDCIWC, speed, Type
Between 1 and 10, how strong do you want the NPC's health, attack, defense, initiative, saves and skills to be?
Is the NPC super good at a skill?
Does the NPC cast magic?
Grab qualities as you want or need them.

When the session that you want to use the NPC comes around, reference how hard the Adventure is and what the PCs' levels are and run the graded stats through the charts to gen the stats for that encounter.

Or, just use this: http://www.meadicus.plus.com/craftygames/npc-builder/NPCBuilder.html

The upside of this is, whatever NPC you make can be scaled to the level of the party. No need to reference a challenge level for the monster. If you want the party to encounter tough goblins at level 3 and again at level 16, you can use the same stat block.

>>54434198
Is that dogs in the vineyard? Is that any good? Anyone have a link?

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>>54463286
It's pretty good, but you kind of need to do things "right". I'd suggest watching the Rollplay Oneshot they did of it, it's all about how you find out what's going on and how you react to it, not whether you find out in the first place.

>>54463286
https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/48/1366481737053.pdf