Are there crusades/holy wars in your setting? If there is, tell

>>54420974
The crusades only make sense if you have a shitty desert people religion that spent centuries on conquering and murdering your people as they were the reaction to that.
Otherwise it's just a normal war with priestly backing

>>54420974
Well, my setting doesn't have Christianity, it's more of a polytheistic/animistic framework. How much spiritual meddling has to be involved before you call a conflict a holy war?

>>54421035
Does your god tell you to kill the other guys and take their stuff? Then it's a holy war.

Secret pro tip: If you worship the dollar, every war is holy.

Kinda. Still working out the Details in why beyond "God Demanded it".

>>54421028
Also your continent has an excess of second and thirdborn sons making trouble

>>54421028
Those desert people were more civilised then the fucking crusaders - Muslims didn't kill other religion priests and didn't burn there homes, and left women and children unharmed.

>>54421073
Yes they did, Mohammed.
>muh virtous desert barbarians
Fuck off

>>54421047
I suppose the question then would be what wars aren't backed by some nosy intangible entity or another. At least dollars haven't been invented yet.

>3.5
>inb4 3.5 is for niggers
>Far Realm attacks
>madness everywhere
>royal wizards turn everyone into Necropolitans from Liber Mortis
>madness stops. So does fatigue
>DEUS VULT
>campaign begins

>>54421088
It's part of the Korran - it forbids killing of Jews and Christians, for they believe into a same good, they just haven't understood it yet.

And mulsim rules of war phorbided destruction of wells, livestock, killing of women, childern and people of science - same rules used by mongols as well

Also if any of you have even went to hospital, you can't talk crap about muslims, for modern medicine was started by one.

>>54421073
[dindu intensifies]

>>54421151
What the fuck is this spelling

>>54421151
The "Korran" forbids slavery too, but that didn't stop the janissaries and mamluks from happening

>>54421073
>Muslims didn't kill other religion priests
>>54421151
>it forbids killing of Jews and Christians
So all those Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists and so on don't count eh?

>>54421170
Mohammedan

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>>54421151

>>54421170
Some butthurt turk or other kebab living in the first world probably. Let's call him Mohammed, cause statistically that's his name
And for the record, nonwhites should never play the "Try living a day without all the shit my race/religion has invented" game. Especially not online

>>54421151
>Invade Spain and France
>Sell Christians into slavery all along the coastline
>Kill pilgrims to the holy land
>Threaten Byzantine
Spout some lie about western agressive.
Fucking apologists disgust me.

>>54421151
>Part of the Koran
Doesn't mean that Muslims or even Mohammed sticker to it, the battle of badr was fought by Mohammed during Ramadan.
Mohammed was a bloodthirsty dictator who created a cult to support his reign and every sultan after him was judged by how many Christians and other non Muslims he slaughtered.
Grow the fuck up, learn some history and fuck off with your bullshit

>modern medicine
No
Typical half truths and bullshit from leftists grooming their favourite political pets, don't believe everything you read in a funny picture on the internet you mentally deficient child.

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>>54421151
No

>>54421182
The quran doesn't forbid slavery it is in favour of it and has rules written in it for slavery in particular

>>54421151
modern medicine is Chinese. If anything, I should be thanking my neighbor Mr. Chang. But I won't

>>54421229
>>54421239
>>54421243
Don't press him too hard, he might explode with anger

>>54421265
Good

>>54421263
Define modern medicine, brain surgery was known to Romans and greeks already

>>54421263
>modern medicine is Chinese.
Funny I sure don't remember those prescriptions of tiger liver and powdered dino bones

>>54421273
What?

>>54421273
It seems to be more of a independent development that got joined together through trade. IIRC the Chinese were the ones to discover using plague scabs for vaccines, and Hippocrates invented lancets

>>54421286
Brain surgery was known to Romans and Greeks already.
Including tools for drilling, hammering, etc. Basically the modern shit just with muscle power and less fast
Apparently they also tried electrotherapy on the cranium for cluster-migraines via electric eels

T. Classical philologist who had 2 courses on Roman medicine

>>54421276
>implying people back then knew what dinosaurs were

what did he mean by this /tg/?

>>54421286
They'd cut discs out of the skull without Anesthesia and put copper plates in place when closing up.

>>54421324
Chinese TODAY use random garbage for medicine. China ALONE is the main reason so many endangered animals are being poached

>>54421324
Chickens are dinosaurs anon.
So are alligators
>>54421328
>without Anesthesia
Factually incorrect, the Romans (and Greeks) knew multiple forms of anasthesia, they just didn't like to use them as they were obviously less safe since even nowadays it's relatively risky.
For a larger operation like that you probably would have gotten some kind of drug though

>>54421323
>>54421328
Shit never knew, thats interesting as hell dude. How well did it work? Did the guy turn into a dumbass or was he just different here and there?

>>54421350
Gators aren't dinosaurs, but they were around back then. And wasn't copper common to use for bone mending?

>>54421028
You do know the Northern Crusades, the Albigensian Crusade, and the Bosnian Crusade were all things, right?

>>54421352
Depends on the surgery, brain surgeries were surprisingly successful (and thus, popular, when it mattered), they were also pretty good at excising cancer already.
I have No idea how well the electro therapy worked, you'd need to ask that a physician (sounds like it might work doe)

>>54421338
That's because of communism you stupid cuck. Also I thought we were speaking historically, fucking dumbass

>>54421385
The first was uncalled for but whatever, second was needed cause cathars were fucking weird, and if bosnia was anything like it is now, then the only thing that they did wrong was not finish the job

>>54421350
>moving goalposts

Look at Mohammed here!

>>54421396
They still used weird shit even back then. But that's how medicine was discovered. It just took a while for people to go "Hey, I wonder why this thing makes your body do whatever"

>>54421151
The 10 commandments also forbids killing.
That means the crusaders didn't kill neither.

>>54421385
Happened later doe to the set precedent and weren't the same thing really

>>54421369
Probably
>>54421409
I am Not even the original guy
>>54421426
Wrong, they forbid murdering, killing is a mistranslation
No murdering in war, sunny

>>54421028
>shitty desert people religion
Why are you so against Chritianity, anon?

>>54421461
>shitty

>>54421461
Critianity is a natural success

It is the belief system that automatically succeeds

>>54421190
>So all those Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists and so on don't count eh?
Well, since they aren't a part of the abrahamic religions, they don't count ;^)

Both sides are right. The Koran DOES forbid killings and all sorts of things, and it DOES order/allow Muslims to do these things. The Quran follows primacy of descending order, with scriptures that FOLLOW over-riding scriptures that proceed. So what you have is a religion that started out being all about charity and human brotherhood and shit turning into a religion about deceiving your enemies and cutting off their heads. Adding to the clusterfuck is the difficulty in ascertaining WHICH order the scriptures were written in, AKA which parts do we listen to. This is why why Imams exist, they're a special scholarly class who devote their lives to studying the Qu'ran SPECIFICALLY so they can interpret the clusterfuck that it is. Naturally you have different groups following different interpretations, which the end result that they're all right even when they're in diametric opposition.

You know that episode of Southpark, about the founding Fathers and how America can't make up it's mind about shit?

That's Islam.

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>>54421534
He has a point.

>>54421547
PS I'm also pretty sure Islam never had a Council of Nicea equivalent so good luck deciding what even qualifies as a part of the Quran

>>54421547
You make it sound like that happened over a long time when it didn't.
It was a creepy “charity“ cult when it was a local one in one village, as soon as it expanded Mohammed turned to the sword and so did his shitty cult
>reminder that every fucked up cult looks nice at the beginning

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>>54421547
>mfw reasonable discourse that doesn't discount the problems of Islam but also doesn't demonize it

>>54421515
so successful it had to be spread with the sword >.>

>>54420974
We did a play on the 4th crusade once. Essentially a massive international warband of NOT ancient Romans, rocks up in NOT Constantinople to assist the NOT Ancient Greeks against the NOT Persians.

So of course my party is busily doing a whole bunch of quests to get a peace treaty sorted to prevent a massive war. So after a bunch of sessions arranging secret meetings, spying, dropping off secret packages and the odd assassination woohoo! our PCs have prevented the war are are the unsung heroes of NOT Constantinople.

Whereupon the NOT Romans decide that since they're not getting the war booty land and pay they were promised for taking down the NOT Persians they declare the NOT Greeks heretics and massacre every male enslave every woman and child and take everything that isn't bolted down.... and a lot of things that are bolted down... and then burn the city

>>54421652
>doesn't demonize it
Literally because he isolates the very early time of it and acts like it has much to do with the religion as a whole.

>>54421352
Trepanning (cutting a hole in the skull) can save your life if you have swelling of the brain (can be caused by blunt force trauma) Reducing the pressure on the brain can prevent all kinds of lethal consequences. It still happens today. The big killer in Roman times would have been post op complications like infection.

>>54421073
>Muslims didn't kill other religion priests and didn't burn there homes, and left women and children unharmed.
ahahaha

Considering my setting is an odd mishmash of middle-Eastern and northeast African locations and historical periods, it's practically a given. Along with the Nottoman Empire's own expansionist jihad, western factions are raring for another crusade, neo-paleo OT Israelites in not!Palestine are fighting genocidal warfare against the few remaining pagan city-states, the formerly-pagan-turned-not!Christian Ancient Kingdom of Kang is on its last legs, and that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

>>54421073
>Hey look boys we've taken over the wealthiest and most civilized parts of the world, pilfered their technology and infrastructure, ran it into the ground and now we live in a shit hole

That's like saying a bank robber has more money than any of the people who had money in that bank. You're not wrong but you're entirely missing the point and giving credit to entirely the wrong people for entirely the wrong reasons.

>>54421073
>Muslims didn't kill other religion priests and didn't burn there homes, and left women and children unharmed.

You heard that on a CNN documentary, amirite.

>>54421202
Yup it is true, however christians were not unbelivers in there standarts - same good, wrong book

>>54421243
>Muslims are not allowed to marry non-Muslims
Dude have you not read "be Ye not unequally yoked?"
No religion likes their doods dating nonbelievers.
Shit just looks like page filler now

>>54421582
True - every religion is fucked up, so when we talk shit about one, we should mention all the others

>Muslim apologists ITT
I bet you nigger also think that communism is bloodless and fascism is totally worse even though you can't show that by any metric

>>54421452
>>54421426
They don't even forbid murder.

The word is very specific, and means you aren't allowed to kill in such a way that it creates blood-guilt with other families. It doesn't say anything about other tribes, religions, or peoples.

>>54423363
It uses same 10 commandments - so in that logic, Christians are allowed to do it too

>>54423323
You can show the number of people each send to death - Ratio is around 1/20 for soldiers at least, where 1 is fascism

>>54423381
Yes, and?

Can you all fags fuck off to /int/ or /his/

>>54423318
>True - every religion is fucked up,
Oh fuck off
You have no idea about either religion if you think Christianity is even nearly asas bad or should be mentioned in the same breath as Islam when it comes to fucked up shit.
The historical relativism of the left is fucking disgusting
>but muh crusades
Fuck off and read a book, Jesus fucking Christ
If you mention the shitty sides of a murderous deathcult you do NOT have to flagillate yourself and your cultural roots by somehow acting like a quite peaceful religion (and believe me, historically it really is) with it's roots in in victimhood and forgiveness is comparable

>>54420974
druidic holy roman empire-esque nation did 3 crusades into a mssive forest to remove kebab elves

>>54423443
I am talking about something else - bunch of crussaders that went off to fight the people in poland and LDK, and they had to deal with the fuckers for 200 years. So yeah murder because of religion is common in both sides.

>>54423381
Christians are repeatedly and actively discouraged from killing and their prophet and eternal idol to aspire to was a pacifist.
Muslims are actively and repeatedly encouraged to rape, murder, terrorize and enslave the unbeliever and Mohammed was a genocidal maniac who did exactly that.
>but Abrahamic religions don't count as unbelievers
Mohammed never cared and neither did Muslims and since his words and actions are what they aspire to that's obviously wrong

>>54423484
We've been over thAt in this thread, the crusades in the east were different from the original ones and mostly political.
But even if we pretend that they aren't, let's say you are right.
It still doesn't fucking change anything as every religion is capable of horrible things, even buddhism, the chaos went pretty insane with that.
What's important is that in Christianity or buddhism bloodshed and slavery are NOT something you should aspire to, while it is the goal and something great for Islam.
Mohammed was a warlord who was constantly killing and conquering people and built his religion around d the support of that, Jesus fucking died rather than defending himself.
It's NOT THE SAME.

>>54423484
>bunch of crussaders
That was Teutonic Order. They were a particular group of assholes who didn't give two shits about christians. First they were kicked out from Hungary for conspiring against the country that let them in after the Holy Land was retaken by muslims. Then Poland gave them land, they started playing political games against their hosts again. And after killing a bunch of fellow Christians they dropped catholicism and became Protestant monarchy. These Prussian faggots are something else entirely.

>>54422719
The Muslims did not actually run the Middle East into the ground, instead the focus of global trade shifted from Persia to the New World, and the traditional goods that used to flow in from Arabia were being shipped by sea via the African sea routes.

Or did you think it was mere coincidence the Muslim world began to die around the same time the Western Hemisphere began to colonize new lands?

>>54423567
*the japs, not the Chaos
Check out Buddhist warrior monks, they were pretty hardcore

>>54423576
Prussuans where baltic tribe that they exterminated, those guys are pretty much germans

>>54423585
It's almost like how Constantinople ceased to be the trade capital of the world right after the Muslims took it over, and how Spain became the leader in overseas colonies and wealth literally decades after it was liberated from centuries of Islamic dominance, or how Egypt and Tunisia and the rest of North Africa went from being some of the most advanced and wealthy region in the Mediterranean to producing literally nothing of value except slaves. Everywhere Islam thrives society dies, it's always been that way, it will always be that way because it's a shit belief system started by a delusional pedophile to line his own pockets and through either force of arms or systematic discrimination has managed to absorb other more successful societies before parasitcally living off of what made them successful until they're fully Islamic and no longer produce so they must move on. They're the electronic arts of the religious and get political world.

>>54423585

>they did not run the middle east in the ground they were just completely helpless once they were not the center of the world anymore and their embargos ceased to have impact

>>54423443
Modern christianity is a rather poor, castrated thing
People disregard most of the "good book", and this is why we consider christians pretty swell people.
Modern christianity is a very secular religion, and that's what keeps it popular.

>>54423871
The 4th Crusade killed Constantinople.
Muslins just ate the corpse.

>>54423973
Was that supposed to refute what he said? The Middle East wasn't ran into the ground, it simply became economically irrelevant for centuries.

>>54424013
>Muslins just ate the corpse.
Except they started eating it alive

>>54424093

When your whole position thrives on merely somewhat maintaining the monopoly position you from someone else and you fail to make any backup plans on how to not destroy your empire once this monopoly is gone, despite given centuries of time to think about that, you effectively ran it into the ground.

>>54424013

Yeah yeah and the library of Alexandria wasn't burned by them either, because someone else damaged it before...

>>54424212
Leave it to our pious roman catholic friends to screw things up and blame someone else.

Also, Alexandria was doomed by the roman conquest, were it started recieving less and less funds and stopped being able to attract scholars

>>54421664
>joke


>head

>you, sucking a cock

>>54424013
The Muslims had been eating the Byzantine Empire since they left Arabia.

>>54424188
I hope they run the West into the ground.

>>54423871
>They're the electronic arts of the religious and get political world.
Whoa hey now

That's a little extreme. NO ONE is as bad as EA

>>54424322
>Also, Alexandria was doomed by the roman conquest, were it started recieving less and less funds and stopped being able to attract scholars

I guess that means burning down the biggest library of the known world had no effect on the development of the region then. I mean if they start handing out fewer scholarships you might as well just destroy everything that has been researched so far...sounds absolutely consistent.

>>54423993
>People disregard most of the "good book", and this is why we consider christians pretty swell people.
Nope.
The old testament isn't what Christianity is about, the new testament is and even as an agnostic I can acknowledge that the new one is a pretty good book to live by if you want to be a good person.

>>54420974
Well the closest thing to the crusades happened a good 700 years ago in the setting. But basically humanity suddenly found themselves craving more land, thanks to developments in agriculture leading to a huge population boom, so they spread east and began conquering all the non-humans in the way. At least until the non-humans banded together and stonewalled them. It only ended on the 7th push eastward when humanities leading general and hero was defeated in battle and raped on the spot by a succubus champion.

The first crusade was pretty much just a way to get all the thuglike knights in Europe to stop killing each other and holy men, and to try to be more constructive in the Middle East. Problem is they mostly killed other Christians in the first crusade. We have all the lovely crusades to thank for creating "Jihad" the sand version of crusade.

>>54424379
The library of Alexandria as an instituition was already dead. There was no money, the museum and the other auxialiry buildings were closed by rome, etc. It was just a bunch of guys watching over some rotting books.
Also most of it was already copied somewhere else.
You can argue as much as you want that people burned down the buildings, but the library itself was already gone.

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Terry Jones The Crusades

4 episode documentary on Dailymotion

>>54424458
>We have all the lovely crusades to thank for creating "Jihad" the sand version of crusade.
Kill yourself you fucking retard, the jihads were over 500 years older, how the fuck do you think the Muslims gained all that land?

>>54424464
>It was just a bunch of guys watching over some rotting books.

Some rotting books that contained a shit ton of knowledge.
>Also most of it was already copied somewhere else.
I highly doubt that, source needed.

>>54424458
>We have all the lovely crusades to thank for creating "Jihad" the sand version of crusade.

You are retarded. The Crusades were a reaction to Jihad, which is _objectively_ much older than the first crusade. Stop educating yourself with SNL, you smug idiot.

>>54424393
REEEE REEEE STOP DEFENDING THE WORST RELIGION IN THE WORLD REEE REEE.

CHRISTIANS FOLLOW THE OLD TESTAMENT. IGNORE THE NEW TESTAMENT.

JEWS FOLLOW THE OLD TESTAMENT, IGNORE THIS IGNORE THIS IGNORE THIS.

>>54424464
We have less than 1% of ancient western literature left, partially due to the burning of the Alexandrian library, say whatever the fuck you want, having those scriptures available for even a few centuries more would have been incredibly useful
What the fuck is wrong with the leftist muslim apologists lying like 8 year olds in this thread?

>>54424630
Why does so much of the West, especially the coasts, live in a lala land where quotes from children's authors or washed up TV Shows are things to live by?

>>54424667

Because they are indoctrinating you in school, in university and in TV with their postmodernist bs. It's a holy for weak minds.

>>54424647
?
Your autistic screeching does nothing to make you seem any more educated.
Read the paulus letters in the bible to understand the relationship of the old and new scriptures and why jews still go to heaven if they stick to the old covenant while Christians don't have to if they accept Christ as their saviour.
I'm not even religious, but it's quite interesting and your utter ignorance on the topic is pathetic.
Pathetic, but quite typical of edgy leftist faggots, little actual knowledge but at least you know what John Oliver thinks about the topic, right?
Kill yourself

>>54424708
*trinity

>>54424362
We'll see it in our lifetime

>>54424362

And then get nuked forever by Asians. I can live with that.

Let's face it, every muslim infested area is headed for self destruction and they are running out of space.

>>54420974
Yep. Still going in a way
>Campaign revolves around collecting artefacts imbued with some sort of power
>Tend to have iconography of either a demon, and angel or something that's a mix of both
>Artefacts have exactly the same effects whether it be angelic or demonic iconography
>Because of this some dudes declared they must be contained
>When players have enough of the items these guys lock on to their position, show up and basically be a fairly powerful force the players have to deal with one way or another
>They're also crusading around killing bad guy cultists pretty much constantly
>Players hate them, but they've generated some really cool stories

>>54424650
It'd have been nice from a scholarly standpoint, more material to go by in building a picture of ancient times, but how would it have been "incredibly useful"?

>>54424721
>>54424737
If it makes you feel any better, environmental destruction has become beyond terminal and we will see entire countries from Africa migrate to Europe for a better life.

You think 1.2 million Syrians is bad? Wait until you see 12 million Nigerians in migrating to Germany.

>>54425037
>You think 1.2 million Syrians is bad? Wait until you see 12 million Nigerians in migrating
I think they've already been migrating. Every migrant just calls himself Syrian to be accepted.

>>54424954
Dude, all the greek theories about how lambs grew on trees are VERY IMPORTANT BUSSINESS!!

>>54425037
The bigger question is will the West find some balls and actually have a civil war, or just gonna let this happen indefinitely until there's nothing left. Shit can happen quickly.

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>>54420974
Our Crusade is eternal

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>>54426040
Have a larger one, fellow crusader

Where are the stories of Crusades in people's roleplaying games?

>>54420974
I'm getting the final parts of a crusade ready for a launch. However its more a shamanistic holy war then anything else. Gonna get the blessing's of the head spirit to seize more land and resources for the devote and also access to abunch of nifty teach and fresh water sources which solve alot of the nations current issues.

>>54420974
Faerun has an elven crusade in 1374.

>Ancient demon worshipping sun elves released from prison by reckless adventurers after being forgotten for several millennia.
>they attack mainland elven countries and take over an old elven kingdom.
>a bunch of elves from everest decide retreating to an island was a mistake and come back with an army to drive off the demon hordes and resettle their abandoned ancient homelands.

Last Mythal trilogy. Some of my favorite novels, actually.

>>54420974
The ultra-Christian mega kingdom *won* the war against a lich, who has that much at least printed in the history books as he rules the theocratic government from the shadows via a hand picked counsel of cardinals, slowly egging each Christian kingdom to war with eachother for glory in the hopes of sowing enough Discord to go about summoning his god in avatar form to forever rule the mortal realm.

>>54420974
Genocide of nonhuman races and human/non human hybrids

>>54421028
You could also have a head of a religion call a crusade because he wants to one-up both his "co-leader" of the religion he's in and make him look useless while also thumbing his nose at a similar but different religious authority to was nominally part of the same religion but basically ignored all of the first guy's commandments.
Add in some serious financial debts that you need forgiven and flagging popularity needing a boost, then you could totally have a Crusade in your setting.

In fact you could have a First Crusade.

>>54421263
>>54421151
Modern medicine is not muslim. They pillaged southern Europe, got texts and shit, preserved them. There also was 1-2 great medics in Middle Ages, and that's all.
Chinese traditional medicine is pure madness, 80% of which does not work, and 20% works only god knows how.

T. guy with higher medical education who had two years of fucking HISTORY OF MEDICINE, BECAUSE FUTURE DOCS DONT NEED ANATOMY OR PATHOPHYSIOLOGY, RIGHT?

>>54424954
>>54425112
We had conversations about Roman brain surgeries in this thread
The fact that you think shit like that is somehow not useful is fucking pathetic, kill yourselves, both of you.
Plus, history matters, idiots.

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>>54434046

>>54434134
Literally the least accurate and most easily disproven thing ever. About what I've come to expect from towel heads and Militant anti theists

>>54434046
By the way, romans, greeks and egyptians really had surprisingly advanced approach. They were dissecting corpses BC, if my memory is in ok condition, and they knew anatomy pretty good. They lacked technology and ability to see microscopic level.

>>54433946 -guy

>>54434158
Yeah. Not to mention that's blatantly just an edited version of the "Tech gap left by the finno-korean hyper war" graph

>>54434134
Don't reply to my post with your shitty make-up statistic, the carolingian rennaissance, among other stuff, was a thing.

That doesn't take away from the importance of preservation of knowledge though

>>54420974
After the world was nearly destroyed in a demon invasion, the Holy Empire of Vaul, from which the planar incursion originated, has been shattered into five bickering city states. Each of these city states claims to be the new Mecca of their shared faith and have effectively pushed one another further and further down radical paths.

>>54434193
>romans
>They were dissecting corpses
Wasn't it punishable by death within Roman borders because human body was considered sacred? So all the doctors who wanted to learn anatomy had to study it in Egypt or by books only.

>>54435451
No.
First of all, realize that the Romans existed as a great power for centuries, so making a statement like that is dumb as fuck.
Second of all, religion was handled quite liberally there.
Third of all, they did a lot worse things than just cutting up corpses.

>>54435451
>I heard [insert obscure halftruth about a specific period, exception or special circumstance here] therefore Romans didn't
I am legitimately triggered

>>54435625
>First of all, realize that the Romans existed as a great power for centuries, so making a statement like that
It has nothing to do with that. Chinese states existed for millenia.
>Second of all, religion was handled quite liberally there.
Yet, people were punished harshly for less based on the religious beliefs. Like vestals being buried alive.
>Third of all, they did a lot worse things than just cutting up corpses.
Not according to their worldview

>>54435682
>I heard [insert obscure halftruth about a specific period, exception or special circumstance here] therefore Romans didn't
So why did people study anatomy by Galen's texts who never dissected human body? There should be other sources and researchers since it was legal, right?

>>54435723
>It has nothing to do with that.
Des it does, the Roman state changed massively during it's existence.

t. Still a classical philologist with a focus on Latin, so literally an expert

I won't bother with the rest of your post because your ignorance already makes me want to hurt you

>>54435762
>For a time, Roman law forbade dissection and autopsy of the human body,[10]
>for a time
If you use Wikipedia to seem educated on the internet, at least read the whole motherfucking sentence
>hurr durr feeding children to your eels so they taste better is okay but don't cut up that corpse doe
Jesus man...

>>54435723
>the Roman empire was just like the republic
>the republic was just like tribal rome
>early Roman gods were just like late Roman gods
>late Roman gods were just like rome when it embraced Christianity
>moral standards and laws didn't change
>Roman culture was monolith, never influenced by the outside and remained unchanged

Okay, here's something you can personally do to improve the world.
Take a knife, secure it on your table, put your eye at it's tip and then push forward with all your might.
Thank you in advance.

>>54436302
>>54436369
>>54436546
Whatever you say, my man

>>54436546
Care to explain what it has to do with this?
>romans, greeks and egyptians really had surprisingly advanced approach. They were dissecting corpses BC
I'm all ears

>>54436703
The medical student wrote that, but I was referring to this:
The retard I responded to acted like Romans were against dissection in general and clearly had his kknowledge from Wikipedia, even though he could have easily,read there that the law against it was only temporary in nature.
However, even without looking that up he should have really because the Roman state changed dramatically over the many centuries of its existence, so saying something as dumb as “this was forbidden forto religious reason,“ even though religion was one of the things that changed the most means you're either incredibly dumb and incapable of basic logic or incredibly arrogant and dumb.
Either way, a swift removal from the genepool through suicide is the best option.

>>54436782
Phoneposting btw

>>54421664
>>.>
leave

>>54436782
>The retard I responded to acted like Romans were against dissection in general
You are dumping them all together >>54436546 based on your own assumption and nothing else.
>The medical student wrote that
I'm a god of burgers and coke too. Claim on the internet certainly makes me one.

>>54436893
Nope.
I wrote saying that is stupid due to the many changes in Roman history, he wrote it has nothing to do with that, I called him out on his retardation.
And as far as I'm aware and as far as Wikipedia goes the medical student was correct, so either show us that the Romans somehow managed to have a millennia long lasting principle against dissections, or fuck off.

>>54436893
Why would you even whiteknight for a gis who wrote
>It has nothing to do with that. Chinese states existed for millenia.
Seriously, why?
It's not like it was a spoken conversations so we can all just scroll up and see that he was talking out of his ass

>>54437002
>And as far as I'm aware and as far as Wikipedia goes
>and clearly had his kknowledge from Wikipedia
Oh the irony

>>54437161
It was the Source he was using so I used it to prove him wrong.
That's usually the best thing you can do with illiterates, if somebody misquotes the bible the easiest way to shut him down is to quote it properly.
That's some really basic shit, how the fuck can that go over your head?

>>54437241
>It was the Source he was using
You make a lot of baseless assumptions and do nothign to prove otherwise

>>54437279
Check the article, very similar phrasing, plus the same example about Galen.
Now of course he could just be fucking wrong and dumb and decided to present a halfheard quip as fact and then defend it with gritted teeth.
Chances are of course that “he“ is you and now you try to wriggle out of your retardation by moving thethe goalpost, but either way I don't mind.
He's a retard for his inability to think,you are one for trying to defend him.
The medstudent wrote about ancient dissections, he said it's wrong based on factually incorrect shit and now you try to defend him.

>>54437039
>Chinese states existed for millenia
Civilization existed for millenia within modern borders of PRC. Better now?
>First of all, realize that the Romans existed as a great power for centuries, so making a statement like that is dumb as fuck.
>They were dissecting corpses BC, if my memory is in ok condition, and they knew anatomy pretty good
Tell me again what the fuck do you mean here? They existed so long they totally fucking did that? So what's remaining evidence, studies, books and writings they were so fond of?

>>54437359
Nobody posted any articles on the topic yet.
>The medstudent
Needs to be verified
>wrote about ancient dissections
Which desperately needs sources for dissections in ancient Rome
>factually incorrect shit
So where is the proof it's incorrect, you dumb phoneposter?

>>54437379
Read the fucking thread you idiot.
I didn't write the third quote, but I made pretty fucking clear what I meant there several times now.
Shit changes when it lasts, the Roman state changed a lot, if you say that dissections weren't allowed, I say that it was only true for a very limited time and you go lolno then you're a fucking idiot.
Actually, screw that, you're a fucking idiot for assuming that the other guy was wrong in the first place because of some old law you remembered.
I mean, let's be honest, I'm sure even you aren't dumb enough to think that the Roman state stayed the same over the centuries in regards to it's view on dissections.
However, your post about the old Chinese states shows that you're clearly unable or unwilling to fucking think. You don't think, which makes you a moron, No matter how high your IQ is, if people have to shove your nose into shit every time for you to smell it then it doesn't matter how good your sense of smell is.

>>54437241
You haven't posted any proofs yet. I'm looking forward to it.

>>54437502
>So what's remaining evidence, studies, books and writings they were so fond of?
Learn to read, retard, and answer the question.

>>54437427
>I am too retarded to Google
Here is one about greece, including vivisections from way before the Roman empire
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2589595/

Now that aside, let's approach it logically:
Romans has great respect for traditions, but not exactly for Gods (Caesar would be a famous example of an early atheist who really didn't give a shit).
Why do you think a physician wouldn't just grab a corpse and cut it open when he can legally do so in Rome?
Slaves (who had about as many rights as a toaster) and corpses were both never in short supply, so what exactly makes you think they didn't do it?
Do you just argue for the arguments same or do you literally believe that? Either way you seem a bit autistic.

>>54437627
>Here is one about greece
You are too retarded to find one about Rome

Since it's related, I'll ask it here. What was general life like in the 1000-1100s? Mostly small villages, dirt houses, farming and such?

>>54437502
Verbosity is one of your virtues, I see

>>54437695
Depends on the region, really. The vast majority of population anywhere was in the countryside.

>>54437627
>Slaves (who had about as many rights as a toaster)
Do you fucking know anything about Rome? Slaves actually had rights and were protected to some degree. Hell, Romans were punished sometimes for cruel treatment of their slaves.

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>>54420974
A previously non-aggressive yet violent religion was living around a dormant volcano known as the mouth of Gogaleth.

They bred and expanded like crazy due to their faith wanting to "go forth and multiply" sort of deal, and their civilization was pretty booming along with the other greater nations of the world.
They are on the way to secularization or at least becoming less violent.
Preachers constantly preaching warfare telling them to get back to the old ways or pay the price
Say that other countries worshipping false gods (immortals) are making Gogaleth angry

One day their volcano erupts, killing about a quarter of their population and driving many into desperation.
Survivors turn to the church which takes them in, protects them, with what little power it had left it fed and clothed them
Blames the 150 or so Immortals that live in the world for the eruption
Says that if crusades don't happen immediately there's gonna be more destruction

Gogaleth crusades begin
About a dozen or so immortals were captured and thrown into the mouth of the volcano, which has naturally gone dormant again
United world smashes the shit out of their crusades after a long bloody expensive series of wars

Now everyone hates the followers of Gogaleth

>>54437506
I am Not the One who made the claim you fucktard, I am the One who said that qquestioning it based on a temporary law in a history of over a thousand years is simply dumb and I only need basic logic for that, if you want a link check my other post.
>>54437547
We have less than 1% of the works of the ancients still available to us today, most of what survived survived through monks or archeological findings, in both cases usually because it was hugely popular and thus often copied.
Maybe it seems more obvious to me since it's my field of study, but come on man, think.
Do you really think such a fringe topic was written about and copied much? Physicians weren't like they are nowadays and books about medical shit were actually quite rare with only some classics “widely“ distributed, most of what we know about that is usually from them being mentioned in other works or from short quotes or whatever the fuck the english term for the summary on the backs of books is, they didn't use books back then, but those were a thing already.

>>54437627
>Romans has great respect for traditions, but not exactly for Gods
whoa whoa whoa whoa
whoa whoa whoa
whoa whoa
hol up


While I don't disagree with you, Rome had crazy medical tech we lost including surgical staples-

To say Rome DIDN'T HAVE RESPECT FOR GODS? What kind of garum are you fucking smoking, esse? Yes, Caesar famously was a hypocrite about it, but he stilled payed lip service/played it up because it was INCREDIBLY Important to the majority of Romans. Part of the reason they had such a huge respect for Traditions was their obsession with injecting ritual and rule of law into everything. They were intensely superstitious. These people had sacred chickens for fucks sake

>>54437732
>Slave rights
Depends on the period. For the most part you're correct, but the value of a slave (and the economic lot of the common citizen farmer) took a huge dip for a while post Punic Wars cause of all the slaves that flooded Romes market, making basic labor and slaves incredibly expendable - which is one of the things that led to the 2nd great slave revolt Spartacus got famous for (and Crassus and Pompeii got famous for stomping out)

After a while things normalized again, but it is worth noting academically, there were periods of time in Roman culture where being a slave was all it is meme'd to be

>>54437682
>>54437704
Look here you idiots >>54437749
Nothing worse than amateurs
>>54437732
Nope.
Or to be more precise, yes but not always and in differing degrees, slaves were mostly treated well not due to laws but due to Roman culture expecting it, however most of the time you could still slit the throat of any slave you owned whenever you felt like it.
There were no expansive welfare or protection laws for slaves during most of romes haydays

>>54437749
>think
I would rather prefer sources and proofs. Imagination is bad helper here.

>>54437749
Speaking of surviving works, I recommend everyone here to read "The Golden Ass" by Apuleius, a fairly raunchy and amusing magical romp through Greece whose main distinction is it's the only fictional novel (novel, not play, this is a reading book) to survive IN IT'S ENTIRETY out of the Roman Era. Specifically, it was written around the 100s.

It just really hammers in how much was LOST. Did noblewomen have trashy romance novels? Were there exciting buddy legionary stories? Criminal dramas? Racy accounts of former prostitutes?

>>54437804
>Did noblewomen have trashy romance novels? Were there exciting buddy legionary stories? Criminal dramas? Racy accounts of former prostitutes?

We have accounts that suggest that they did. Fuck, Caesar's letters back to Rome describing his adventures in Germania were basically one of histories first serials. People ate that shit up.

>>54437801
>You are too retarded to find one about Rome
My point remains

>>54437801
>however most of the time you could still slit the throat of any slave you owned whenever you felt like it
What time period are you speaking of?

>>54437781
>To say Rome DIDN'T HAVE RESPECT FOR GODS? What kind of garum are you fucking smoking, esse?
Stop talking like a faggot.
I wrote that the way I did very purposefully, traditions were very important to them, including religious ones, but the divination of the eemperors was known to be bullshit already before they really got into it.
They had a weird two faced relationship to their gods, on the One hand they were very superstitious, but on the other hand they were incredibly “flexible“ when it came to the Kind of god they turned to.
That's one of the reasons why there so incredibly many very different cults in Rome, the Romans always liked to have something to believe in, but the way they did it kinda changed a lot and sometimes over relatively short periods of time.
They all had some faith in something higher, but the way that manifested was rather fluid and prone to change.

>>54437802
So look them up if basic logic isn't enough for you.

>>54437859
Not that anon but if it was Greek, the Romans stole it. They were huge Greecaboos

>>54437940
Yes, they were flexible - they were polytheist, why wouldn't they be? You're projecting a 20th century monotheist mindset onto a civilization that literally predates monotheism (outside of Zoroastrianism in the west, maybe) in order to judge the concept of "faithfulness"

>>54437940
>So look them up if basic logic isn't enough for you
From this I conclude that all your posts are based on your pure assumptions and 'logic'. It wouldn't be hard to post any sources if you've seen any of them before.

>>54437859
You ask me to back up a claim I didn't make when I merely defended it's inherent logic.
That aside, you clearly have no fucking clue about ancient history if you ask for a citation from a phoneposter over ssomething so specific.
>>54437922
If I'd have to guess without looking aanything up I'd say that's probably true for everything leading up to the lare republic and early empire, so about 600 years of Roman history

>>54437979
No I don't, the Romans firmly believed that might makes right, which is why they had no problem with going against the will of a god they disagreed with to turn towards another.
I don't know how you'd call it, but ignoring divine commandments until you get an answer yoh like doesn't sound like respect to me. Plus, they weren't god-fearing in the sense of a medieval society, which you seem to think of. They were rather light hearted with their gods, made fun of them, called them cucks and made them look like idiots in this art so others could laugh.
>>54437991
Is there a problem with any of that?
I talked to the guy because his objection was illogical, the original point didn't even matter much.
Now you ask me to prove the original point as if that has any impact on mine.
Ask the medstudent when he returns, until then stick to what I said when you criticize me, not to what he said.

>>54437979
>Not that anon but if it was Greek, the Romans stole it
The funny part is the article he posted talks about reasons why Greeks didn't dissect human bodies with only two people breaking the tradition in the third century BC and they were the last Greeks to do that. So in short Romans didn't dissect human bodies because they were huge Greecaboos and did just as their favorite culture. If he wanted to post an evidence, he did exactly the opposite.

>>54437998
>If I'd have to guess without looking aanything up I'd say that's probably true for everything leading up to the lare republic and early empire, so about 600 years of Roman history
I will look into it but I'm very skeptical that outright slave killing was allowed. Working them to death in the mines and plantations was fine but this is different thing. I will look further into it.

>>54438098
Romans and Greeks had very different views on those kinds of things, so no, you're still an idiot.
>the Romans thought x was unethical because the Greeks did it
You know nothing, Romans were always cultural supremacists, No matter how much they took from the Greeks (which is less than you think due to a relatively high baseline similarity), they'd never let the Greeks fuck with their values.
I already told you why we don't know a lot about highly specific topics from ancient sciences in most cases, that hasn't changed.

>>54438083
>Is there a problem with any of that?
>the original point didn't even matter much
>Now you ask me to prove the original point as if that has any impact on mine
Yes, the problem is you are extremely vocal for all the wrong reasons and such behavior encourages shitposting if it's not shitposting by itself

>>54438121
You'll be surprised, chances are that I was to conservative with my estimation now that I think about it.
The Romans did some fucked up shit in the colosseum which often ended in death and I don't think they made a huge difference between house-slaves and those of a professional slave trader or trainer

>>54438083
This is some pretty fedora tier historical revisionism.

>>54438156
>Not that anon but if it was Greek, the Romans stole it. They were huge Greecaboos
>So in short Romans didn't dissect human bodies because they were huge Greecaboos and did just as their favorite culture. If he wanted to post an evidence, he did exactly the opposite.
>Romans and Greeks had very different views on those kinds of things
Does not compute

>>54438160
No. He said dumb shit, refused to consider the possibility of being wrong and you later started shitposting about
>muh misunderstanding
>muh sources
Etc.
When it was really fucking clear what he and I wrote.
I don't mind that in principle but your holier than thou attitude is disgusting.
You're not being productive, you're being an asshole, which is fine, but stop acting like you're anything else here.

>>54438179
>The Romans did some fucked up shit in the colosseum
Don't be so eager to make sweeping assumptions. Roman fathers had the right to kill their children, this didn't mean they used it.
>they made a huge difference between house-slaves and those of a professional slave trader or trainer
They did. House slaves were often treated well as minor part of the family.

>>54438192
On which grounds? Read the metamorphoses if you want stories about their gods, or read their historical works about Romulus, the most famous one from livius iirc, if you made a latinum you probably had to translate that guy, basically makes fun of his divination

>>54438212
>He said dumb shit
He said something that sounded wrong to you but no evidence was posted for the point >>54434193 he argued against.
>refused to consider the possibility of being wrong
As so did you
>muh misunderstanding
>muh sources
Just stop there, hothead

>>54438244
>Don't be so eager to make sweeping assumptions. Roman fathers had the right to kill their children, this didn't mean they used it.
What the fuck?
I literally just wrote a few posts upwards that Roman slaves mostly lead a good life due to Ronan social norms (but NOT due to laws)

>They did. House slaves were often treated well as minor part of the family.
YES BUT NOT LEGALLY
For buck's sake, I literally wrote that they led good lives, this isn't what that was about, we were talking about LAWS regulating it because one anon claimed shit like that was illegal and that they had many rights while I said they didn't but still generally lived well.

>>54438083
>until you get an answer yoh like doesn't sound like respect to me
If Romans didn't respect the gods, they would ignore unpleasant answers and just moved on

>>54438287
No.
I gave him a logical argument, he refused to consider it.
The rest of your post is just you dickstroking

He never gave a reason why I could be wrong, but of course you just wrote that part because you think it makes you sound smart, so I should have probably stopped reading before that.

>>54438293
>I literally just wrote a few posts upwards that Roman slaves mostly lead a good life due to Ronan social norms (but NOT due to laws)
Where?
>>54437627
>>54437781
>>54437801

>>54438305
Fatum =/= gods
The gods had to bow before the fata too most of the time
And in effect, when they could they did ignore those answers by asking until they got a good one.
As I said, respect just seems like the wrong word.
Maybe fear for some, but in all their acts it seems more like a business relationship with some fear mixed in most of the time. The Romans wanted shit and expected the gods to deliver and when they didn't they tried the next one if necessary.

>>54437801
>slaves were mostly treated well not due to laws but due to Roman culture expecting it
>>54438349
See above

>>54438320
>I gave him a logical argument, he refused to consider it
You gave no evidence required so it's natural to assume you don't know much on the topic as you admitted here >>54438083 and probably not the medstudent he argued in the beginning (who disappeared in the mist)
>He never gave a reason why I could be wrong
Lack of evidence over vast time period is a good enough reason

>>54438368
An example pf this would be the evocation, in which the Romans promised gods of foreign cities a temple in Rome before starting the siege if the God helps them conquer the city.
Quid pro quo

>>54438390
You're an Idiot, holy shit.
If you only wanna work with hard evidence evolution doesn't exist and neither does gravity.
The Romans could easily cut corpses up, it wouldn't even have been against the law much of the time and it wouldn't have been too expensive either. They also weren't exactly pussies in regards to dead or dying bodies and they had hundreds of years of time.
Your response to that is:
>I'll only believe you if you show me a 2000 year old book of which 99% didn't survive!
Are you fucking serious?
Are logic and common sense foreign concepts to you

>>54438390
No offense but you seem like a literal autist

>>54438464
>If you only wanna work with hard evidence evolution doesn't exist and neither does gravity.
Enough sweeping assumptions, phoneposting retard

>>54438482
No offense but you sound like a fag

>>54438541
Were you the One who wrote the same about slavery laws?
Jesus, you sure enjoy being wrong.
I'm pretty sure evolution is a thing, but we have no hard evidence for it or for gravity, we can only observe their effects (it's called a theory for a reason, laddy).
But go ahead, keep on mumbling shit about truth, acting smart and being an idiot, use buzzwords like “sweeping assumptions“ in unwitting concepts and keep on acting like an autist.
Surely that'll make people think you're not an idiot.

>>54438575
Will your parents stop thinking you are a huge disappointment with classical philology degree if you keep making oververbose posts? Nope, don't think so.

>>54438557
Don't get your panties in a twist just because people laugh at you.

>>54438637
Awww, couldn't respond, could you?
Well, that's no surprise due to your complete lack of arguments throughout this and your inability to use simple logic.
And I'll use it to be a teacher and they are both quite proud of me.
So what will you be doing while I teach Latin at a Catholic private school, cuckboy?

>>54438662
Nope, still don't think so.

>>54438662
>So what will you be doing while I teach Latin at a Catholic private school, cuckboy?
Reporting your pedo orgies with priests to FBI

>>54438700
Nuns used to run the school but that's long over and the age of consent is 14 here and I don't live in America.
You're going to have to try harder.

>>54420974
Currently the villainous pcs (all sorcerers) are creating a situation where Gozreh is going to invade the world with hordes of armies to cleanse every single sorcerer off the face of the earth. Sorcerers in this world are common, as literally everyone has some dragon blood, meaning even a commoner can cast some cantrips.

They killed his favourite BBGG druid, set his hallowed ground in fire, and ignited yet another civil war between mythical creatures trying to survive and sorcerers simply as a distraction. They also accidentally managed to cast an epic level spell (by doing a quest) causing molten rain for 20 hours over a particularly sacred forest.

I'm not sure how I'm going to do this though, as of yet.

>>54438722
>You're going to have to try harder.
That's what she said

File: Death Knight by David Hudnut.jpg (235KB, 770x936px) Image search: [Google]

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> Space Joan of Arc/Jesus starts a crusade to close a stable gateway to the Abyss in the Middle East that the dwarves made with a giant drill
> Picks 12 men and women as her generals, giving each a sliver of her divine essence
> Dies in the final assault on the portal, with only one of her disciples present to hear her final words
> Disciple claims that she made him her heir
> howconvenient.jpg
> Rest of the Disciples convene, decide that the successor needs to be someone less spooky
> Pick the Prophet, who is a religious fanatic among religious fanatics, and one who they know can't seize more power without their say-so
> Prophet exiles the first Disciple to guard the wastes of the East to contain the Chaos-worshipers who survived the war
> First disciple and his armies fight there for a hundred years while the Prophet and his fellows consolidate power and spread humanity across the world
> After 100 years, first Disciple decides that he's earned the Empire his siblings built
> Leads his troops west and fucks his siblings up beyond repair, since his soldiers are battle-hardened and have been fighting demons for a century
> He's also been feeding them his blood, turning them into the first paladins
> 15 years of bloody civil war ensue, since he's using the full power of Fem!Jesus' boon and has granted it to his followers
> He's also worshiping a new pantheon, one that helped his fight against Chaos
> Disciples convene and agree to self-deify after lengthy arguments
> Start counter-crusade, with paladins of their own
> Council picks a mortal human to be Emperor, since demigods can't be trusted
> Combined might of the Disciples and their armies crushes heretic Disciple during the Siege of the High Fane
> Prophet tears open a pit in the lower planes, condemns the heretic crusaders to an eternity of punishment in nine descending levels, one for each of their pagan gods

And that's where devils come from.

>>54434134
I love how Eurocentric this image is, and how it assumes that white people would've shot past every culture even faster if it weren't for the Jewish messiah.

>>54421028
It could also be a crusade against demons, or anything else that could be interpreted as an enemy to an organized religion. It's best if the religion has similar values to Christianity(the one crusaders praticed, not the joke we have today).

>>54439536
>I love how Eurocentric this image is
This is the world we live in

>>54420974
Of course.

DEVS VULT

>>54439536
>science history is eurocentric
No shit you retard, welcome to reality

>>54434134
grossly inaccurate. the literacy of christian monks kept a lot of wisdom alive that might otherwise have been lost.

i'm not christian, and a lot of bad things have certainly been done in the name of christianity, but i have to call out that bullshit

>>54421073
>John the Armenian's account played zero role in encouraging Urban II to declare the First Crusade
Sure thing lad.

>>54421151
>It's part of the Korran
Do you know what's also part of the Qu'ran (or Koran, I've never seen it spelled Korran but hell, for all I know it's a viable spelling)? The doctrine of abrogation, or the idea that if two verses contradict the latter takes precedence over the former (probably "revealed' because Muhammad knew he was talking out of his ass). Do you know what the most recent Surah in the Qu'ran is? The 9th. The 9th are Muhammad's literal marching orders: to hunt and kill until all subjugate to Allah. Let's look at the part of the 9th Surah that deals with the People of the Scripture (Christians, Jews and sometimes Zoroastrians).

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29
>Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

According to Surah 9 there are three kinds of peope
>1. Good, faithful Muslims
They are to be treated kindly
>2. Unbelievers
They are to be hunted down and killed until they subjugate to Allah
>3. Unbelieves from among "those who were given the Scripture" (Christians and Jews)
They are to be hunted down and killed until they subjugate to Allah or pay the Muslim rulers a "please don't kill us" tax. And even then they are treated like second rate citizens and are still expected to obey Sharia law (so a Christian priest who prosletyzes to a Muslim crowd will be executed for attempting to turn Muslims away from Islam).

The problem with Islam apologists is that they hate the Qu'ran and Hadith more than the so-called Islamophobes do.

>>54439841
>>54441886
He makes a good point. The whole "if not for Christians we'd be in space right now!" narrative ignores the rest of the planet. Your "science history is Eurocentric because Europeans are the only ones who did science" point actually fits closer into the "Christianity contributed to the rise of science" narrative found in such books as "God's Philosophers" and C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity (and some statements by Newton and Descartes).

So yes, that image IS Eurocentric because it fails to answer the question where China, India and the Arabs messed up despite not having "Christian dark ages".

>>54439536
Reality has a European bias.

>>54445616
Good thing the future is female.

>>54434134
>Ignoring the Finno-Korean Hyperwar
It's shit

>>54421401
>cause cathars were fucking weird

Papist Dog detected

>>54446087
Manichean pls go and stay go

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80KB, 531x518px

>>54446087
>not wanting to kill cathars

>>54438199
Because those posts were made by different people you genius

>>54445591
The point wasn't that it's not eurocentric you retard
The point was that it needs to be because Europe was scientifically the most relevAnt place in the world.
So yeah, of course it's eurocentric, if you need a hug because of that tumblr remains a thing.

>>54448102
You're still missing my point, so let me explain this slowly and deliberately so even you can understand it.

The position that the "christian dark ages" caused a steep decline in science to the point of actually hitting pre-dawn of civilization levels is incredibly eurocentric because it utterly ignores the rest of the planet and fails to establish why they never achieved scientific greatness when they didn't have a thousand year stasis at close to absolute zero.

The position that christianity aided in the rise of modern science isn't eurocentric because it takes the rest of the planet into account and explains why they never achieved the same level of scientific progress.

I'm not saying that one of these positions I'm right, I'm saying that only one of them pretends the rest of the planet doesn't exist, which is a huge hole in its explanatory power.

>>54448536
You have completely missed my point and anybody elses, but keep on talking and redditspacing, maybe somebody will eventually care then.
People understood what you said, what you don't seem to get is this:
It doesn't fucking matter and nobody cares, go be a kindergarten teacher and give out participation awards you retarded pussy.

>I'm not saying that one of these positions I'm right,
And I, as well as everybody else is saying that it doesn't matter and that you should stop whining or fuck off to tumblr.

>>54448536
>slowly and deliberately so even you can understand it.
And yes, I appreciated the irony that you actually wrote that after not realizing what those who replied to you actually meant.
Get off your high horse you arrogant prick.

>>54448536
>"they called me an idiot, so surely my thought-process was simply too complex for them!"
Interesting that that's the first thing you think of, instead of
>"maybe I really am retarded"