Imperial Fists ignore cover, damn that's good, Black

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>>54394780
NOW BACK TO THE GOOD PART

>>54394780
Damn, and I thought the 7E bolter reroll was good!

>>54394780
I assume BT's restriction on Librarians is listed under their army rules and not their chapter tactics? And yeah, their rule is very underwhelming compared to the others. I might be interested on using the White Scars one. Speed kills.

>>54394869
Iron Hands and Black Templars have relatively weak chapter tactics, Salamanders are good but the rest seem much better.

>>54394780
>Roll a dice each time and IRON HANDS...
>Roll a dice
>a dice

Jesus fuck Gee Dubs get your shit together.

>>54394931
Sounds like a weaker version of 'Ere We Go!

>>54394933
I haven't been paying close attention to 8E, but I recall many a thread in the day complaining about how Eldar could get 2+ cover saves easy as pie.

>>54394936
It's a Britishism, according to someone I know who's obsessed with the UK.

>>54394933
>Slamanders
>Reroll 1 die once.
>Good.

>Iron hands
>Everyone gets a 6+ invulnerable save.
>Weak

Stop smoking crack.

>>54394780
Black Templars is relatively weak but it helps a ton in getting you in close combat which where you should be otherwise you might as well play Ultramarines.

As a Templar Im ok with it and Im more excited about the Stratagems to be honest, I think the real power will be there.

>>54395018
>power armor
>power weapons
>ATSKNF
>better at melee than orcs
>better at charging than orcs
I'd say it's a pretty good ability

>>54395008
Misread/misinterpreted 'unit' as 'model'. Yeah my bad but Iron Hands I think should have had a stronger FNP, replacing up to half your body with cybernetics is only a 6+?

>>54394936

U wot m8?

>>54395098
They're like necrons or DE. What's not to love?

>>54395098
>replacing up to half your body with cybernetics is only a 6+?
Ever since 2nd edition when Bionics were character upgrade, yes.

>>54395148
I have a Necron army and my zombiebots have a never-ending 5+ reanimation. Helps a lot since I take a lot of fire to reach 12" range for rapid fire. Not saying Iron Hands should have an identical rule, but Space Marine cyborgs would have higher quality implants than baseline Skitarii.

>>54394936
They've literally always written singular die as dice because it's an accepted colloquialism in UK and people who complain about it are hopelessly autistic.

>>54395008
>Salamanders
>re-roll 1 hit AND wound roll for every unit in every shooting and fight phase every turn of the game
>bad

You're right that Iron Hands is good but Salamanders is serious contender for best by far.

>>54395267
Reanimation is entirely different than ignoring injuries bro. Those bionic marines are exactly like plague marines for a reason, their abilities work the same way.

>>54395148

As a DE player, that 6+ save on a T3 5+ or 6+ save model is amazing, and its even better on a multiwound bike. It a even better on a T4 3+ model or fuck a T4 W2 2/+5++ model.

>>54395311
It is a different game mechanic so point taken, I guess that I just wanted the seemingly least appreciated First Founding Chapter some very serious bonuses. 6+ FNP is better than my first reaction.

>>54395267
They are still flesh in part though. DE ignore pain because of their psychopathic fetish (cyborgs are fetish level strength confirmed?) but they aren't as tough as robots; neither are cyborgs.

Somewhat unrelated but where is the 40k general? Made a thread for the Chapter Tactics reveal because I didn't find the general thread.

>>54395314
Oh for sure. I bought into 2 sets of the gangs of commoragh set before the edition dropped and I'm loving what I'm gonna be able to do with them once they're painted.

>>54395267
>but Space Marine cyborgs would have higher quality implants than baseline Skitarii
Not really. Skitarii are more heavily augmented than Marines when it comes to bionics, they just don't have the same level of genetic alterations.

Also Skitarii got fucking shafted in the index and don't even get 6+ FnP anymore.

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>tfw Carcharodons are a RG successor

>>54395455
Go to catalog and ctrl+f 40kg

>>54395417
Don't worry about it. Space Marines with all their cool options being that much harder to remove, especially stuff like Devs, is going to be fucking good. It's not so much that you might ignore a few wounds now and then, it's that your space marine with 20 points of gear on him might just laugh and not die to something that would have taken him off the board.

>>54394780
>Check all the MEGAS in the 40kG
>No new material except for forgeworld

Where did you get this? Is it forgeworld?

>>54395478
Skitarii got a 6+ invul right? Not as good as FNP but at least they got something. As a player looking at AdMech as a possible second army, I'm hopeful the codex corrects stuff like that.

>>54395528
Warhammer Community new article,
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/choosing-the-right-chapter-tactic-for-your-successorsgw-homepage-post-4/

>>54395537
Invuln is better on anything with multiple wounds imo. Dunno if mosquitos have multiple wounds though

>>54395481
Don't worry it's never been officially stated right? They'll probably give them black templar CT

>>54395907
According to that article, I can do whatever the fuck I want. Both are fitting, really, though its the RG strategems that help Sharks imho. Still, rerolling charges is pretty sweet without a psyker

>drop LC termies with Tyberos
>Reroll charges, reroll hits, +1S

Seems pretty legit. I just wish my Tac Marines had Chainswords again. I might use them as vets or assmarines or something.

>>54395907
>Don't worry it's never been officially stated right?

It says right there in IA10 they have Raven Guard gene markers you faggot.

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>>54395979
I don't understand how people started all these NL/WE/Chimeric rumors. They clearly didn't even bother to read the wiki or the fluff, so why are they talking about stuff they know nothing about and starting bullshit rumors so confidently?

Red Tithe really kicked off the chimeric rumors, even though the book talks nothing about their geneseed. My guess is, once again, they didn't read any of the material and just made shit up based on the author's tumblr where the author was trying to sound mysterious.

>>54395008
Pretty good for dreads and characters. On the weak side for units. Still, it does play nicely with Plasma Guns and Power Fist sergeants even in units.

>>54395537
Yeah but 6+ invuln is almost useless under the new AP rules. With 4+ base armour they get a 6+ or better save against anything AP -1 or -2 already, and how often is the enemy going to waste AP -3 or better against your basic 1W infantry? And mortal wounds just ignore it.

>>54396116
Didn't think about plasma but Salamanders do have an easier time overcharging plasma safely don't they?

>>54396186
Which is why they don't get 6+ invuln. They get FNP which is totally different.

>>54396219
No, they don't. We're talking about Skitarii, try and follow the reply chain.

>>54396186
It's bad no doubt about that, but if there's some good to come out of the index is that AdMech are a combined army now.

>>54396271
Yeah, but that doesn't really make up for all the nerfs they got.

>>54394780
I disagree about BTs being weak. Charge rolls are the single greatest source of individual roll uncertainty in the game and the matched play restrictions on command points mean normal re-rolls only go so far in reducing it. This makes long charges much more reliable for BTs. It also makes deep strike assaults and particularly mass deep strike assaults much more of an option. You can't use both CP and Zeal rerolls on the same dice, but you can pick which to use (single die or both dice) depending on the initial result.

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>>54396249

>>54396283
I know this is overly repeated but the codex might put AdMech back into the high tier of factions. Plus the legends of /tg/ speak of something called Fires of Cyraxus.

>>54396337
Problem is AdMech are probably at the far end of the list for a Codex update and if Fires of Cyraxus comes out first then it's going to be outdated and a mangled mess when trying to use it with the Codex because Forge World puts in no effort with their rules, ever.

>>54396374
Unfortunately you have a point about Forgeworld's rules department but with AdMech being an Imperium faction they will probably be ahead of all the xenos at least. Plus Forgeworld tactics will be a thing.

>>54394780
And here I am with a nice newly painted force of Primaris Imperial Fists.

Mmmmm.

>>54394851
Damnit Bolton.

>>54396498
>but with AdMech being an Imperium faction they will probably be ahead of all the xenos at least
That's not at all how the 8th update schedule is working.

>>54396873
Did GW reveal the list? I'm hoping I'm wrong since I actually play a xenos faction, and looking to get another.

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>>54396942
Thats the current known order, it will probably keep alternating between Imperium-Non Imperium army until all are covered.

>>54394780
If I'm reading the iron hands one fight, they get two saves? Or is it just an optional save?

>>54397072
Works the same as every other FNP effect in the game

>>54397033
From the current known order, and what we've been told in livestreams, they're prioritizing the oldest Codexes to be updated first, with some slight anomalies here and there.

For example, Space Marines are first because they're basically ALWAYS first. Chaos Space Marines are second not only because it makes sense to release the loyalists and traitors close to each other but also because they are the oldest Codex. Grey Knights are being updated out of order because they cannot make use of Primaris stuff like all the other Space Marine Chapters currently can, then Death Guard is coming because they're in the starter set and have been in the works for ages.

After that, though, it will almost certainly be the next oldest Codexes after Chaos Space Marines. Tyranids, Astra Militarum, and Orks will all be coming very very soon. Chaos Daemons is a weird one because they might be getting split across different books now instead of having their own.

White Scars and Raven Guard really cleaned up here, everything else is different shades of low impact on the game. RG basically ruin gunlines and WS can manage first turn +1s charges that they can make over and over again with ease.

>>54394936
That's how Brits speak. News flash, Brits suck at English. They say leftenant when it's lieutenant, they say dice for singular when that's die.

>>54394931
I'm digging the White Scars tactics. That really helps open up options for hit and run spam viability. Fall Back, tie up another unit in combat or start dictating the fight phase order.

>>54397267
We don't know the Stratagems for everyone yet. Much of WS power comes from their Stratagem more than their Chapter Tactic. It's no wonder everyone thinks the two Chapters that got Focus Articles already are more powerful. They have yet to reveal a ton of info for the remaining Chapters.

>>54397329
RG didn't need anything other than 'cut incoming shooting by up to half for free'.

And increased speed 100% of the time really beats "ocassionally ignore a terrain buff" or "sometimes reroll a charge that you probably had several ways of rerolling anyway"

>>54397222
Why would old codexes matter in the slightest in an edition that totally negated ALL codexes? They're going to go in popularity order, so frontloading marines and chaos and sticking Orks and Dark Eldar at the very end. Sisters probably won't get a codex at all.

>>54396306
Please stop posting this, the single rippers on 10mm bases drive me up the fucking wall

>>54397222
>they're prioritizing the oldest Codexes
*except Sororitas

>>54397662
You mean imperial agents :^)

>>54396037
>black eyes is a night lords trait
>battle frenzy resembles world eaters

Though both of those are traits of actual sharks. Plus with the later FW books there's that raven guard group that raided nostroma sector and ran off with a bunch of loot. Combined with the raven guards history of gene tampering

>>54397798
I thought the common fan theory is they were the original elements of the Ravenguard who Corax kicked out for being too brutal

>>54397798
>>black eyes is a night lords trait

That's Raven Guard. Raven guard have black hair, black irises (so they appear to just have huge pupils) and marble-white skin from the beginning.

Night Lords have large pupils and excellent night vision, but their skin is white largely because of them intentionally avoiding sunlight and growing up on a night world.

>>54397798
>>black eyes is a night lords trait

It's actually not.
It's a Raven Guard trait genetically.
The people of Nostramo also have black eyes, but Nostramo is DEEEEAAAAAD

>>54397838
>fan theory

That's literally printed in an official book.

>>54398032
>>54397989
>Having said that, Curze's genetic legacy does have particular effects on those so altered. Firstly, all Night Lords sport jet black eyes and very pale skin (although quite how much of this comes from geneseed and how much from having a Nostraman background in those Night Lords from

lmao raven cucks don't know shit.

>>54398097
For the record if it's just a trait of nostromans why did Terrans have those traits as well (it's the geneseed). That quasi rogue raven guards stole and blended together.

>>54398097
>Source: Lexicanum, unsourced

You don't know shit.
In Void Stalker a non-Nostarman is implanted with Night Lord gene-seed and his eyes remain normal.
Night Lords only get black eyes if they have them as normal humans.

what models/units get affected by chapter tactics?
does a raven guard flyer get -2 to hit when shooting it with hard to hit and chapter tactics?

>>54398251
>what models/units get affected by chapter tactics?

Infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts.

>>54398278
was thinking that raven guard would become tier 1 army with -2 to hit against flyers.
Does that mean that Deredeo dreads and levi dreads get that -1 as well? Would make them very nice if they did

>>54398143
Hmmm I'll give you that can't find my copy right now. Do you think the space sharks are descendants from the Ashen Claws, they're the raven guard exiles that sacked nostromo sector. My head canon is that the sharks use both or a blend, their blood rage and minor mutations are a result of this as normally night lords are super stable genetically.

>>54398355
>Do you think the space sharks are descendants from the Ashen Claws

No. They're the the Raven Guard Corax banished. They have nothing to do with Night Lords.

>>54398402
Those are the raven guards he banished you dolt.

>>54398355

Ashen Claw fluff was in HH5, 2 books after HH3, which features the original banished RG.

>>54398571
Aren't they the same? Or did corax banish multiple groups?

>>54397662
Will it be Codex: Sororitas or Codex Imperial Agents or Codex Ministorium?

>>54398703
They are implied to be different groups as the Space Shark group doesnt return until after the Heresy and the Ashen Claws are not exactly loyalists. Either Corax split the Terrans up or part of the Terran RG decided to end their own exile and broke off from the main fleet.

>>54398807
The ashen claws are the same exiled raven guard. They fuck off and even bring some worlds into compliance after nostromo, hell the symbol some of them sport even look like the old shaped sharks logo. They are the space sharks! I assume you picked raven guard because any color scheme would be too difficult for your mind to grasp

>>54398703
>>54398807

There's no way they'd all be banished as one uniform group. The fact that they use the plural "fleets" means there were multiple of them.

>>54398866
>the blue and red evil guys are totally the Carcharodons
>not the good guys who were already wearing grey and black and literally had the Nicor with them

>>54398880
>loot night lords worlds
>tamper with the gene seed a bit
>chimeric

Geee whiz this is so hard to understand guiz, also they are only implied to be raven guard, there has never been concrete data on them

>>54398872
Except corax did banish a uniform group of terrans and anyone else he didn't like

>>54398866
As long as retards like this keep spreading bullshit, morons are going to believe it and say SS are NL and other stupid shit

>>54398912
Nowhere is it said Carcharodons are chimeric. On the other hand

>also they are only implied to be raven guard, there has never been concrete data on them

On the other hand they DO have concrete data for RG >>54396037

READ NIGGA READ

>>54397320
>Lieutenant
>Translates to Left Tenant
>Spelt same because military manuals.

On a side note, why are Americans acting snobbier than Brits these last few years? Hypocrites as well.

>>54398912
Hey dumbass, not only is there printed fluff saying they're RG, they also gave their geneseed to an Inquisitor for testing to be allowed into the loyalist armies of the Badab War and nothing bad like "chimeric" or "traitor" came back. You dumbasses don't even read the fluff.

>>54398951
Look at this dumbass hypocrite ignoring all the faggot Brits talking shit on this board and wondering why people would get fed up with years of his bullshit and hit back.

>>54395098
Everyone in the Adeptus Mechanicus gets a 6+ save, and they have more robo-bits than anyone.

>>54399004
>have some metal parts and if a lascannon hits you for 4 damage you have to roll 4 6s to survive
vs
>you have mostly metal parts and if a lascannon hits you for 4 damage you have to roll a single 6 to survive

Makes perfect sense desu

>>54397463

Strictly judging on CTs, IH 6+++ is better for overall survivability since HQs will have rerolls to hit.

>>54396283
>AdMech nerfed
They're still pretty strong though, if you use them right. The spider tanks have the strongest anti-tank weapon in the Imperium, max-strength Infiltrator squads can cut apart Conscript spam with 50 shots each turn followed by 20 S6 melee attacks, robots can blow apart Space Marines by tossing out 18 S6 AP -2 shots that ignore cover each turn each, and Rangers can take 2-3 autocannon sniper rifles per squad to kill enemy characters.

>Everyone acting like BT's is weak

Guys.... this statistically takes "Charge out of deep strike" from "Statistically unlikely to occur" to "Statistically likely to occur." That kind of tactical consistency is a big fucking deal.

>>54394780
Ultramarines and Ravenguard for me are the best.

Most people will tell you ravenguard because of -1 to hit - BUT the problem is that in 8ed 1 turn charge is not a problem (if you can roll 9 on 2 dice and have some form of deep strike)

So the whole -1 up to 12" can be much much overestimated. Also theyr strategem lest you put something close to the enemy negating the benefit of chapter tactic.

On the other hand ... Ultramarines flee and shoot is basicly a godseend - its almost god tier tactic for primaris. Most of the times you are better off disengaging and pumping lead back even at 4+ then reveritng to worse ap attacks of your knives. Moreover each new shooty unit is better in ultras as they cannot be tied down - they will just walk away and blast you.

And ld can also be a great thing - in AoS you want to "tag" as many enemy units with morale check and count on one of them rolling high.

Smurfs FTW

>>54394780
Best to worst:
>Raven Guard
>White scars
>Ultra Marines
>Imperial fists
>Black Templar
>Salamanders
>Iron Hands

Raven guard are highest because altering your opponent's chance to hit you is the most effective way to mitigate damage (even mortal wounds) and SM have always been a shooty army.
White Scars and Ultras are tied in my mind because they fuck with disengagement and the extra leadership on a smurf is actually helpful with ATSKNF being what it is now (you will lose models even with the reroll).
Imperial Fists are lower on the list than many other place them just because it's so much harder for a unit to claim cover in this edition anyway.
Black Templar is just good assault insurance, be the ork-lite army you always wanted to be.
Salamanders looks weaker but actually greatly buffs the power of single shot weapons on things like vehicles making them much better in an edition that usually only cares about drowning your opponent in bullets.
Iron Hands is lowest because 6+ FNP is nice but insignificant and leaves no room for specialization

>>54401154
Try shooting with raven guard when you are locked in with infiltrators from the start :D

>>54401246

This is a good point. We need to pair Chapter Tactics with their Command Point abilities to get a feel for the Chapter, and see how both pair to create the Chapter's character.

Which chapters have both out?

>>54401246
>Try shooting with raven guard when you are locked in with infiltrators from the start :D
nice try faggotus

>>54395136
Dice is plural bucko.

>>54401323
nit in uk

>>54396037
Red Tithe DOESN'T say anything chimeric geneseed. That's just retarfs soouting bullshit, like Cawl destroying Cadia.

In the same way, I'm still waiting for a written proof that Marines can be TURNED into Primaris.

>>54398951
>Translates to Left Tenant
u wot m8

Besides, you don't even pronounce it right, wether British or American

>>54401308
sure dude keep taking the blue pill - as I said - with new thing coming out like agressors Ultramarines will kick ass and ravenguard will not be as strong as you think.

>1dreddit faggots think that Salamanders are weak

Having your las dread have 8/9 to hit into 8/9 to wound is nothing short of bullshit. Not to mention that it makes having melta or plasma in a squad that much better.

>>54401565
its good on manlet marines - not so much on primaris chads

>>54401565
But it is still underwhelming compared to what UM and RG got.

>>54402050
Nah, he's right. It's stupid good. It's effectively anywhere from 10+ free CP in a single turn for any list that includes any respectable number of dreads and heavy weapons. It works really well with combat squads too.

>>54402101
I am not saying that it is bad tho. As you have said, it can be quite good, but it needs to have a list built around it to be truly effective, more so than the other tactics. Also, I forgot that combat squads are a thing in 40k, since i played HH for a better part of 7th and 6th editions.

>>54401154
With regard to sallies, CTs don't work on vehicles aside from Dreads.

>>54399300
Lascannon wounds something once, and you roll a die once, the damage is not the number you roll dice against.

>>54394780
>people still don't get that ignoring cover is at best sorta neat now
It's okay, I'm sure you'll eventually get the rules.
>BT tactic is meh
>rerolling charges on the prime drop pod chapter is meh
>making sure most of your melee squads make their 9" charge turn one is meh
Or maybe you won't.

>>54404658
That isn't how FNP works, learn the fucking rules you stupid bastard

>>54394780
Keep in mind there are Chapter Stratagems in the book as well, so the ones with weaker Chapter Tactics could be bumped up by them.

>>54405572
Damn you are a retarded cunt, you roll armor/invul saves against wounds not damage. FNP is the same process you piece of shit.

>>54406384
No, he's right. Armor saves come before damage rolls since they happen vs. wounding hits. FNP saves come after damage rolls since they apply to inflicted wounds.

>>54406670
Alright I see your point, at least you provided an explanation. Pisses me off when someone says "you fucking..." but don't give evidence to back themselves up. Normally I like to avoid swearing even on an anonymous board, but he got me angry.