>removed templates and blasts >no more facing for vehicles

>>54387300
tldr; this game is for babies now. GW wants to sell fischer price toys

>>54387300
People are going to storm in here accusing you of being a salty grognard/powergamer, but you're absolutely right. 8th is dull as ditchwater now. Even if the Codexes have more complex rules, it won't be enough to salvage how brutally the core mechanics were gutted.

>>54387300
Don't forget GW said they're too lazy to bother keeping track of anything and now, in addition to their already inconsistent fluff, they're now not even going to bother with timelines.
>Man Nigel, it sure is hard going coming up with a date and then looking up this chapter to see if we're written them up as doing anything.
>You're right Oliver! If only there was a way we could do even less work than we usually do.
>Pip pip cheerio Nigel, I have an idea, what if the Great Rift makes everything wibbly wobbly timey whimey so we can write anything we want without any research and if people are in two different places at once, oh well! timey whimy!
>Jolly good show ole lad! Let's go celebrate our new depths of laziness with some fish n chips!

>>54388359
Well, you just ran across the entire spectrum of British society and location in that somehow without once actually hitting Nottingham, but I do get the point. New fluff is a massive pile of dick and the rules are a tad too bland for my liking. Currently enjoying HH, though, which would be SO EASY to turn into "7e, but with all the good bits of 8th".

Also don't forget the "Teleporting Guilliman around to save all the people in two-paragraph segments! Excellent, I'm sure our entire playerbase not consisting of UM fans will LOVE that." and Cadia being defended by pissy little Skitarii and such instead of whole Baskilion and Ordo Reductor war clades and then somehow being conquered OFFSCREEN. Those were certainly highlights.

>>54388519
I don't think I will ever stop being butthurt about Hive Fleet Leviathan's biggest tendril suddenly poofing out of existence because of the Warp Storms, then all the damage they'd done reverted by Guilliman and his shitty Chadmarines.

>>54388724
That's just an excuse to have chaos tyranids in 4 years.

>>54388359

When did they say that?

But its fun

>>54389663
(((fun)))

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>>54387300
>>54387300
>>54388108
>>54388214

>>54389704
That's cute, but
>Even if the Codexes have more complex rules, it won't be enough to salvage how brutally the core mechanics were gutted.

And those Chapter Tactics aren't even terribly interesting.

>>54387300
Boo hoo

>>54387300
the game is boring clunky shit

And yet 7th was still worse.

>>54390203
But at least the fluff wasn't awful. We've gone from good fluff with one type of crap rules, to crap fluff and another type of crap rules. There's literally no reason to play any more other than sunk costs.

>>54387300
CP are alright, but they don't fix the problem they were meant to solve.

We need a hard force org chart. The small incentives to play properly aren't enough to bring the game into line. You must take an HQ and two troops and up to three of anything else or you can't play FUCKING PERIOD!

I would also like templates back, just because hordes are a little too powerful without it and their is no way to balance the difference with the system they have.

USR are also going to have to make a comeback, if they want consistent balance as the game goes forward without a laundry list of errata.

Other than that I have no problems with the system as is and the fluff is shit, but it's imperial shit so idgaf.

>>54390257
>There's literally no reason to play any more

Then stop? Or bitch about it. It's your life man.

>>54390308
>templates
took to long and caused to many arguments.
Hoards are a touch of a problem, but they already have the means to fix that if they just follow their own examples.
Have some d3 attack become d6 against units with ten or more models, and d6 become 2d6 for the same.
Flamers do not need this change, getting the full d6 at max range more than makes up for the some times you would get 6+ if you got the perfect angle.

>no you can't play the army you like
>unless you go through a bunch of hoops and get formations we put out.
nah, I'll take incentive to play with more troops, rather than forcing people to take units they don't want.

>USR
or they could just have proper templating for rules. Which needed to be a thing under USR anyways. Having the rules be on the profile is better than having to consult the main rule book constantly.

>>54390414
>Then stop?

I did.

>>54390509
Good. /thread

>>54387300
>removed templates and blasts
stops arguments and saves time.
Should have applied the "bonus if targetting unit with 5/10+ models" more.
>no more facing for vehicles.
Kinda sad, but saves time, stops arguments.
>vehicles get stuck in combat.
Everyone can withdraw from combat now.
>movement stats
all on the stat chart with the other information.
>no USR
rules on the unit stat is better
>no meaningful cover or terrain rules
define your fucking terrain areas, and rules that apply to each.
>added steps to shooting.
what steps?
>termies still suck
much better than they were. 2+ not being just ignorable by a lot of things is huge. 2W is good.
>way too easy to get across the board.
matter of taste. I don't see this as a problem.
>close combat is a mess
it's really simple
>fluff
has always been mostly bad with some good bits.
>over complicated list building
It's really simple, and infinitely better than the formation and special detachment train wreck.
>everything can hurt everything
improvement. Means you might feel you're at a real disadvantage, but never that there is nothing you can do.
>command points
a good option with lots of design space.

>>54387300
"8th confirmed for worst edition yet." More realistically : 8th edition confirmed for worst Tabletop wargame ever conceived."
I wish I were kidding but the gameplay is unbearable dull , plodding and most of us long time players with fluff heavy / lore friendly armies are hosed.

>>54387300
>over complicated list building
welcome to rogue trader, baby

The only bad thing about the current listbuilding is how they stuck the points all together at the end of the book, rather than at the end of each army's section.

I genuinely hate to sound "extreme" in saying this but GW's utter betrayal leaves me no choice :
Anyone and everyone whom says "8th edition brought me back into 40k after X amount of years away... / I like the 8th edition." is either a liar due to buyer's remorse , a paid shill ,a GW employee , have yet to rewrite their army to witness how bad this game actually plays, or are a complete and total brain damaged window licker with SEVERE confirmation bias and psychological issues.

Screw 8th edition unless GW pulls a miracle out of God Emperor knows where ( as opposed to this latest trend of throwing us long time players/ customers under the bus that they seem to have pulled from Nurgle's toothy , cancerous , unspeakably disgusting sphincter.) and shows the community they actually care , I am going back to Horus Hersey / 30k under 7th edition rules.

This time replete with conversions to every model I ever built but with 3rd party bits and recasts so GW does not see a dime of my money .

>>54390729
I don't believe for a moment that 8th has brought back more than a handful of ex-players, but AoS brought a lot of ultra-casual players into the hobby who are going absolutely crazy for 40k being brought down to their level. So unfortunately it is proving to be a success, just not with GW's older players.

>>54390729
>>54390764
> a paid shill ,a GW employee
yeah, because GW has tons of employees and is just throwing money at people to say they like the game.
That makes way more sense than people like things you don't like.

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>>54390729

then do so.

this is a thing now, embrace it or reject it, your choice senpai

>>54390764
AoS is mostly flagging as compared to expectations and as for those looking for simple games.. those new payers are in for some serious disappointment and a major shock when GW treats them like shit too.

>>54390729
>All this projecting
Your butt-hurt is overpowering your better judgement anon. Maybe have a break and spend more time on something you enjoy.

>>54390798
Iv'e seen a LOT of shilling on the forums and on youtube , I can tell you the 8th ed rules are fucking awful form playing them, you can like what I don't like , good for you but ya have to admit the long time players are not the core audience GW is marketing to anymore.. they want people whom have no barometer to judge what is good and what is horse shit.
>>54390810
I am already converting My dark angels over to 30k /Horus heresy . thankfully pretty easy as most of my infantry is robed just have to strip convert and repaint .

>>54390729
Source your quotes

>>54390920
>Iv'e seen a LOT of shilling on the forums and on youtube
no, you've seen a lot of people who like what you don't like.
You're just so arrogant that you believe that the only way that's possible is if they were bribed to lie.

>>54389628
It was on a facebook post, but I didn't save the screencap. They basically said that time is no longer linear in M41.

>>54388724
It was honestly the worst piece of fluff they've ever written in a long while.
>Spend 3 years building up to the huge showdown between a tendril of Leviathan and the Blood Angels
>Warp falls, Tyranids die. Nothing they can do to try to stop it.
>Oh by the way, remember when we said that the thing that makes Leivathan unique is that it's fucking everywhere? We changed our minds, it's all at Baal with a single small tendril at Octarius. Leviathan is dead.

>>54387300

Sell me your models at below market rate, fag. No one cares if you leave the hobby.

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>>54390920

good, I hope you enjoy playing the horus heresy, I've got a 40k blood angels army and the beginnings of a 30k blood angels army together and i am really just waiting for my forgeworld exclusive units.

I'm not going to stop playing 40k with my blood angels or my deldar because I enjoy the game

so lets agree to disagree about the state of the game, you do you and I'll do me.

>>54387300
Welcome to your first Warhammer edition transition.

>>54390764
>>54390729
>muh elitism
>muh mature game of toy soldiers for mature fucktards such as myself.
You're both the epitome of what is wrong with table top gaming in general

>>54391641
Go play Candy Land then.

>>54391724
i'll play games that give me fun. if that means getting new blood in and getting rid of the basement dwellers, then i'm all for it.

>>54387300
Ur a grognard for hating the new and dynamic 40k ! Besides everyone LOVES ultramarines Primarch and new REIVERS (C).

t: not-GW shill, honest :- )

>>54391841
i bet that took you 10 minutes to type out eh?

How is it that everyone who claims to have given up playing 40k can never seem to stop talking about it even after they ostensibly start playing something else? It's like they never actually quit at all and only want to wallow in their discontent.

Protip: In the amount of time OP made his spergfest here, he could've sold off his minis, bought a new game, and started a thread about that instead.

>>54392096
Love turned into hatred is a terrible thing. And when it's nerds and something they used to be passionate about it's 10x more obsessive and bitter.

>>54392137
truth. typically they're lives are so devoid of anything else, they feel more like a cheated on lover. which makes it even more pathetic.

>>54392137
>>54392164
Well, they've gotta learn that if they don't make a complete break with it, it'll be as if they never stopped playing it.

Oh, and just for reference: GW doesn't care how long you've been a customer because your money is no different from anyone else's. Without anyone to replace the long-time players when they inevitably either move on or snuff it, the game would've been little more than a preserved corpse.

And since they do in fact want to stay in business and get more customers, the simplified 8e approach looks like it'll be here to stay for a long time. If you don't like it, the 7e rules aren't going to vanish from the face of the earth so use those or whatever other rules you like instead. GW doesn't care as long as you keep buying its minis- and don't get your hopes up about 3d printers, people have been saying affordable ones will be out "any time now" for years, and I've yet to see even one that's vaguely affordable.

>>54390834
>>54390834

You'd love for that to be true, except there is no proof of it and actual proof of the opposite.

>>54390729
>Anyone and everyone whom says "8th edition brought me back into 40k after X amount of years away... / I like the 8th edition." is either a liar due to buyer's remorse , a paid shill ,a GW employee , have yet to rewrite their army to witness how bad this game actually plays, or are a complete and total brain damaged window licker with SEVERE confirmation bias and psychological issues.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you behind 'Finally having non-shitty faith powers after too long'. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better.

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To all 8th edition players , Pictured is what Geedubs thinks of you New or old just started playing or have been playing since 40k was new.

>>54392459
you mean like any fucking business that has been in business for more than 5 minutes?

>>54392556
well let's see Privateer press ,mantic games and other successful tabletop wargaming companies don't try to fuck their consumer base constantly and even the group behind flames of war provide lube when attempting to buttfuck your wallet . Real nice paper thin argument you got going there.

>>54392739
>Privateer press
bad first example, man

>>54392739
like >>54392766 said, shitty first example. secondly, none of the others you listed are 30+ year old businesses with a dominant market share and constantly fighting to keep that share over the dozens if not hundreds of clones. like i said, it's a business and a business will do what it has too to get the money and keep it.

>>54390591
This times a million

>>54390498
>templates took too long and caused arguments.

What? In 15 years of playing warhammer I never had an argument about templates. What kind of man children were you all playing with? Fucks sake they were quick and easy.

Why are people complaining about GW targeting new players and making broken new units/formations to sell you more riptides/necrons/whateverthefuck like it's some new thing and hasn't been going on since at least 7th "Worst Edition" edition?

>>54393194
This , what bullshit Timmy the bitchy W.A.C.faggot powergaming compensation brigade reject disputes what's under a template ? they have been see through since 3rd edition.

>>54393285
because with the retardedly bad rules comes even worse fluff . Current day GW staffers , writers and playtesters must lay on their backs to have sex because they can only fuck up.

>>54387300
>>removed templates and blasts
All they did was cause arguments
>>no more facing for vehicles
Legitimate complaint, but that did lead to a fuck ton of arguments
>>vehicles getting stuck in close combat
No they don't, everyone can leave combat.
>>infinite different movement stats to memorize
That's a good thing, makes units more distinct.
>>no USRs
All they did was bloat the rules
>>almost no meaningful cover and terrain rules
Except that's wrong, there are more rules for cover and terrain in 8th's BRB than there was in 7th
>>added steps to shooting and CC but somehow lauded as "simplified"
Streamlined, not simplified.
>>termies still suck
Except that's wrong, way to show you haven't played a single game
>>way too easy to get across the board
No it's not, and combat being easier to get to is a good thing.
>>close combat is a mess
No it's not, it's more tactical and based on player choice and skill than ever.
>>fluff hits new low with Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sues
That began in 7th
>>over complicated list building design
If it's too complicated for you, then you must be retarded. Perhaps power levels are more your speed
>>command points
Are a great sustem that makes the game more interesting.

>>54393319
That's also been going on since 7th edition. Might as well buy into a non GW game and get it over with.

>>54393408
>All they did was cause arguments
This is the only thing I've never once seen and I've seen people argue about the most asinine shit. Not a single game could go by without somebody arguing about charge distance, facing or line of sight and the latter causes an argument every round. But templates? It's always been obvious to everyone I've played with. Even in Fantasy.

>>54387300
>>over complicated list building design

Really?

Compared to 7E?

>>54387300
>fluff hits new low with Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sues
>Deus Ex Machina
>in 40k

Who'd have fucking guessed? Praise the Omnissiah for your perspicacity.

>>54393319
The fluff was always crap, it just took you this long to realize it.

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>>54390729
Now I might be a dullard but I honestly enjoy 8e.
As a Necron player i curbstomped 3 matches in 7th edition and didn't actually have all that much fun. Might be a faction problem, might be me. I have no clue.
But now Necrons got fucking GUTTET in the toys department; their most unique overlord having a simple binary option of either having a ress orb or a melee weapon (1 out of 2) instead of his ranged one.

>I still think the matches themselves are more fun now than the 3 I won i 7th a year or so back.

>>54387300
What is tottaly funny is t that morons like you shit all over GW rather then get on with your life. If i dont like some game - i dont come to a forum and bich how bad it is. You are just another poorfag - go bluewhale yourself

What I hate is how poorly all the rules interact.
Take chaos for example, Princes and knights got better, infantry got significantly worse, vehicles were brought inline with ridiculous monstrous creatures/superheavys but still kinda meh.

>>54390498
Reminder text.

>>54390724
This ain't RT. This isn't even 3.5.

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>>54387300
But anon, Necrons actually resurrect again. 8th is objectively better than 7th.

>>54394312
This isn't a forum summerfag , this is a chan , expect toxicity.

>>54394464
This nigger gets it!
>The lords and characters actually doesn'.

>>54394268
correction a chunk of the fluff /lore was appropriated from other stories ,by saying it's crap you're kinda throwing the stories the GW lore was cribbing crap ... g'luck with that.
the modern lore /fluff is crap because it's just pathetic mary sue mat ward wank fest material.

>>54390591
>being this bluepilled

>>54387300
set em on fire and make a video

>>54395743
Yes, anon. Everything is a conspiracy.

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>>54395900
It's not a "conspiracy" but I haven't so many people line up to suck a company's cock like this for putting out clearly rushed and inferior writing than I have here , someone challenges that status quo calling out Goy Workshop out for their insultingly bad handling of their IPand suddenly a whole bunch of people with confirmation bias and buyer's remorse pop out of the wood work like the good little mindless drones they are and act as is someone pissed on their mother's grave. It's pretty fucking pathetic honestly.

>>54395743

I like steak, Neo.

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>unironically enjoying 8th edition

>>54396152
>someone challenges that staus quo calling out Goy Workshop

Fuck off you cunt, when have you ever NOT been crying about GW?

>>54390498
Lack of USRs is a problem because of GWs incompetence at writing rules. They were introduced to fix two problems, one of having to explain to your opponent what every weapon and unit in your army does every single game and the other of units and weapons with very similar rules functioning differently because of tiny wording differences or arbitrary decisions in FAQs.

GW Has repeatedly proven incapable of treating similar rules consistently, the only time there has been anything like consistency is when USRs existed. I agree that in theory they aren't necessary, but in practice GW can't be trusted to go without them.

>>54396531
My point made manifest. I'm not the only one here speaking up against GW , but yet here you come acting as if someone just took your waifu.

Hope you've invested in some good kneepads or you're going to have a hard time remaining ambulatory in your old age, champ.

>>54387300
Everyone I've ever played with or talked to have agreed that 8th is hands down better than the last three editions... so... salty walty much?

Everyone complaining should sell their armies on ebay for a nickle... that'll show gw and hurt their bottom line...

>>54396738
Except that it won't as it's not a lost sale for GW. and it's pretty clear you just want cheap mini's
It's a fast track for some foolish uneducated new 8th edition player and there's no law saying those with multiple armies can not just play horus heresy or any edition they chose to with friends.

The better solution to hurt GW's bottom line is just encourage players to visit the recasters and pick up the older rulebooks & codecies to play H.H. and the earlier editions while not being raked over the hot coals GW loves to spread out when it comes to prices on their minis.

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>>54396811
>The better solution to hurt GW's bottom line is...
>just keep playing their game?
Go play something else.

Guild Ball Thread

>>54396878
you're playing somthing you enjoy which GW does not print anymore using no models form them ( remember recasters) and thus you don't have to put up with their BS . Should one choose to play something else go for it! I am just saying if you want to cost GW sale don't buy their materials. what you do is what you do. that choice is yours I was just giving an option for those whom once liked 40k before it's turned to absolute shit due to the rehiring of Matt Ward and other faffery.

>>54396811
>giving advertisement for a company's product and recommending it to others instead of just boycotting them altogether or promoting a competitor
>calling a company's non-mandatory pricing schemes a grievous act of torture

You're both dumb and a fag.

>>54387300
Funny how all the 8th love is gradually starting to be replaced with hate. It was only ever going to last so long, the game lacks enough substance to keep people interested.

>>54396673
Most people are fucking mouth breathing retards. Don't you ever go outside?

>>54396673
The last three were probably the worst three editions GW has done. 6/7 were trash and 5e was the worst of 3/4/5 for everyone except DEldar.

>>54397852
case in point anyone the toe headed cock whistlers who's been bending over backwards tog give GW the most detailed rim job they can, probably hoping they can get Primaris marines out of that pucker.

>>54390920
30k is gonna use 8e rules in the future anon...

>>54398467
When it does you're going to see a drop off in players there too and it's going to be worse as the people whom have the money to spend on the forge world models aren't the type whim want GW's "simplification" as the majority of them are long time players pretty well steeped in the lore.
If /when that day does come it's going to both hilarious and tragic. Not as bad as say Reeehammer age of Skubmar , but it's going to slowly die screaming.

>>54390729
I genuinely enjoy 8th. It's faster and not as bloated.

>its a /pol/ babbies breaks containment thread

>>54398895
You probably enjoyed 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons as well as Age of Sigmar, it's O.K. Some people are born with special needs.

>>54398982
I could never get into any RPG's past character creation and I can't stand AOS.

8th edition seems to be designed for a more casual audience.

Good. I would rather play with casuals than hardcore shrieking neckbeards any day.

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>>54389704
These arent even well balanced against eachother...

>>54399217
If by casual you mean brain dead and incapable of anything more complex than "Enemy bad shoot them , ,Chyearge!" then sure.
Let's be honest 40k's never been rocket science the only thing that 8th brings to the table is that it's now accessable by those whom can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Good casual games are far better built than this pile of buttery bullshit. If you want good casual try X-wing.

>>54399328
Hi shrieking neckbeard, don't you have armies you need to be trying to resell

Maybe you'll make enough money back to afford a new game for enlightened redditors like yourself

>>54398687
yes, because you believe all the people saying they like 8th ed, and showing up to play and buy more stuff, are only do so because GW is paying them.

I tend to agree, 8th has made 40k even more of a mindless dice fest and that's saying a lot

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>>54398982
>Liking the disgusting, bloated mess that was 7th
>Liking scatbikes, summon spam, and Taudar

>>54399405
I'm not OP , I am not selling my armies I am converting my Dark angels for 30k under 7th ed rules. and I am not sort on alternative games to play.
Points for tying though.

>>54399468
But anon, if you don't like them you are clearly a literal drooling baby that is also being paid by games workshop. Who are by the way a terrible company that cannot make good rules or models and always overcharge and yet have somehow managed to keep their biggest complainers buying and playing for years now.

>>54399497
>wants to keep playing 7th ed
You'd think you wouldn't be throwing brain dead around as insult given your own obvious handicap

Or is this like how it's only okay for black people to call someone nigger?

>>54399468 Deepthroating GW
> being O.K. With Mat ward's Nurgle diseased cock in your ass .
>Defending a game made for mouth breathing asspipers.

>>54399547
I'd prefer to play 4th but with a lot of the models in friend's armies I am stuck with 7th if I don't want to play a game made for the mentally deficient , but nice assumption ya got going there shit whistler.

>>54399551
>Literally being okay with infinite armies of daemons facing off against Riptide wings as the only viable tournament choices
LMAO what a faggot.

>>54399587
>I'd prefer to play 4th
3rd was better you cum gargler.

>>54390729
>hates a system that simply isnt bloated with needlessly complex core rules, leaving room for complexity in the actual armies now
if you hate it leave in quit bitching, moves like this are designed to remove poisonous elements from the hobby, like you

>>54399625
>Playing 40k in tournaments knowing full well that 40k has never been balanced for competitive gaming .
ROFL what a dickless tryhard.

>>54390920
>30k
>the game thats just Space Marines all the time
>Ever superior

>>54399655
not going to argue that point 3 and 3.5 were good days.

>>54399689
Then we have reached an accord, good bantz anon

>>54399656
>Likes a system which is as deep as a teaspoon with no real strategy,and no real variation.
major case of battered spouse syndrome you have going on there.

>>54396152
>stop having fun when I am not!!!!!

Kys fag

>>54399754
battered wife implies I liked 7th and just change my tune to suit, I didn't like 7th at all, it was a clusterfuck of unneeded minutia and depth for its own sake is just going to drown the essentials in noise

>>54399849
Suicide pact, you go first.I promise I'll be right after you.

>>54399672
>Literally being okay with half the factions having no viable options whatsoever
Assmad Taudar player fucking detected.

So, when are Plastic Sisters coming out?

>>54400062
Wrong bitch , Ork Kult of Speed.

>>54399849
> "FUN" or /tg/...
Pick one you silly cunt because your greedy entitled ass isn't getting both.

>>54400172
>having fun
get the fuck out
>>54400138
never you fucking nigger

>>54400183
You made your choice and you chose fun , You filthy Normie summerfag...you chose poorly.

>>54400183
but didn't they say that all armies would be plastic in 8th?

>>54400149
>Any Ork player liking 7th
>Ever
At least make believable shit up

>>54400138
Hte to break it to you but GW haves Adeptus Sororitas more than they hate customers whom have an I.Q. larger than their shoe size...it sucks as the sisters are actually an awesome concept.

>>54400172
>Fun
The "But it's fun" meme is the worst thing to happen to tabletop. You can get fun out of anything if your standards are low enough.
Tabletop games let you formulate strategies with armies that you painted yourself, have complex multifaceted battles that rely equally on luck and skill to win, and allow you to recreate events both historical and fictional. If the rule set sucks, and has no depth or strategy, then you might as well just be pushing around action figures and making sound effects.

>>54400221
Never said I was a fan of 7th , just that it beats the shit out of the brainless stum & drang of the witless spergtastic 8th edition fanbois.

>>54400234
So that rumor of them trying to remove sisters and Slannesh from the game is true? Damn...

>>54400247
That's 8th edition in a nutshell a big push by GW to make nothing but mono pose push fit models with no customization in an attempt to fight back against Chapterhouse and other 3rd party studios bits (by making the base models incompatible) and a system which is somehow less respectable than adult speglords playing with expensive action figures making mouth noises.

>>54400268
>Slaanesh start collecting kit is now up for preorder
rumors are silly

>>54400268
not only sisters and Slaanesh .. prepare for Templars to go away too because "offensive!" cried by bullshit SJWs and GW chasing that imaginary "broader audience"
GW is trying to push a niche audience to the mainstream..and they are going to find out by trying to appease everyone they are going to please no one. ( save maybe the most retarded fanbois and those whom have a severe case of Stockholm syndrome.

>>54400268
No, but sisters probably won't see much in the way of new releases for a while due to unpopularity.

>>54400329
>>54400332
I guess the ambiguity between these two perspectives are where this rumor came from then. So there is a possibility that Plastic sisters will come out in 8th, but will probably be pushed back so that more established factions can be adjusted for 8th.

>>54400329
>>54400332
Every army is getting squatted because everyone who says they like any of GWs new games is actually a paid shill.
So GW is paying people to play their game and buy there models, and is going out of business.

Don't you see, it's all there if you look.

>>54400265
7th was so horrible you would get a better game design with a blind man throwing darts at a board.

>>54400329
>Ugly clothed Slaaneshi Daemonettes...
Fuck that modestly dressed hideous noise.

>>54400332
>prepare for Templars to go away too because "offensive

You mean the ones with that are getting their own chapter tactics on the new codex?

I know it's fun to make stuff up on the internet but you over reached, think your shit post through better in the future, stick to an easy target to cry wolf about like tits on daemonettes

>>54400391
which is fitting cause Matt Ward is on the team for 8th and shitbag could fuck up a wet dream.

>>54400424
8th is vastly superior to 7th. The mere fact that the power curve has been massively smoothed down and all armies have at least some viability again is enough to ensure that on its own.

>>54395067
No, it has always been crap and always will be. Your rose-tinted glasses are on too tight.

>>54396972
>recasters
What, the ones that keep making atrocious rubbish? You'd be better off just using those green plastic army men with signs saying what they're supposed to be.

>>54400468
and you're a humorless little shit.whom takes things way too seriously, has lost all sense of happiness in your life.

>>54400451
Agreed, though I'm not sure the codex power creep won't fuck it up.
>>54400468
From the rogue trader days onwards 40k fluff has been a mixed bag, while good and bad mixed together.

I will say that even though it's got some stupid stuff I prefer them least trying new things for a change with Bobby G and friends as opposed to another edition of stagnation.

>>54400481
I've had better luck with recasters than I have with either citadel finecrap bubbles everywhere model or Forgeworld bent and warped bullshit.
and I know I am not the only one.

The removal of templates
The removal of armor facings on vehicles
Removing any casualty you want even breaking unit cohesion
Any model being able to wound anything
Being half covered by terrain doesn't give you cover and tanks can shoot all weapons from any point on the model now. May as well drive tanks backwards and shoot out of the back of your tank now.

The people who defend this dumbed down, non tactical garbage are crayon eaters. 8th is an insult to peoples intelligence. I've never had an argument about templates or armor facings EVER. Been playing since 2003. Sticking to 7th. Considering Horus Heresy unless that gets the stupid hammer too.

All of this makes the game less tactical

>>54400545
Unironically prefers Matt ward Wankrags and bullshit about "the wizard came from the moon" err I mean "Bellasarius Cawl invented it never mind the toaster fetishists never invent anything."

>>54400451
>8th is vastly superior to 7th. The mere fact that the power curve has been massively smoothed down and all armies have at least some viability again is enough to ensure that on its own.

Because everything is bland now and every weapon can wound every model?

It's really bizarre how people seem to think "balanced + streamlined" are the most important elements in a rules set. There has to be more than that - I don't want to hear that a game is balanced or streamlined - I want to hear that it's fun because X is a cool mechanic etc.

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>>54400518
No, you're thinking of OP and his soulless ilk who can't even leave a game they hate because they can't live without something to hate. I am genuinely convinced OP and others like him will keep playing 8e simply because they can no longer enjoy anything they can't rage over.

>>54400557
Bah, you apparently got lucky then. Last time I tried I got the impression that it would be cheaper to make the minis myself from scratch.

>>54400570
>>54400585
Pic related, o arbiter of taste that nobody asked for.

>>54400588
You sound like one of the people who would've liked the lolsorandumb AoS rules.

>>54400557
>I've had better luck with recasters than I have with either citadel finecrap bubbles everywhere model or Forgeworld bent and warped bullshit.
>and I know I am not the only one.

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to really believe that paying half the price for castings with half the quality and 10000x the toxicity is a great deal. If FW sends you shit castings, they WILL replace them for free if you ask nicely.

>>54400588
>Because everything is bland now and every weapon can wound every model?
Because things are actually somewhat balanced and the game isn't decided at the list selection stage, retard,

>>54393194
I played against a guy who played an older edition and he was really annoyed that a blast template would everything under it when it came to buildings, which I was slightly incline to agree but also tried to counterpoint that explosions (large ones in particular, which I was using) has a larger affect then simply "blowing up that floor in particular" which might have been the effect they were going for.

I also told him that there's nothing stopping him from using the floor scatter system, I just simply didn't know it (well enough).

>>54400588
>8th is vastly superior to 7th. The mere fact that the power curve has been massively smoothed down and all armies have at least some viability again is enough to ensure that on its own.
read : 'i'm dumb enough to play tournaments and if I cant be happy I want everyone else to be miserable too."

If you want balance learn chess , if you want fun with fluff & crunch , go back to earlier editions of 40k , and if you are a moronic cunt weasel with a lot more money than sense well you can always shit in the ballpit with the rest of the paste eaters.

>>54400585
Not that specifically, but if it's that or another 15 years of nothing then yeah, let's see where it goes. Maybe it'll be awful but didn't you think that about the previous fluff anyway?

>>54400624
>Because things are actually somewhat balanced and the game isn't decided at the list selection stage, retard,

So your explanation of why the game is balanced is because it's balanced? Great.

>>54400651
>read: you have to have fun MY way or you're not a true fan of 40k, no of course I'm not going to justify it!

Take your own goddamn advice and stop trying to force people into playing obsolete editions that were reviled even in their own time.

>>54400673
As opposed to gravspam, riptidewhoring, and everything about the Eldar? Please.

And Khorne help you if you were stupid enough to try to make an assault-focused army...

>>54387300
I am ambivalent on template and blast removal. It does remove the tactical depth of positioning units and forcing infantry closer together with, say tankshock, but it does make people less likely to want to kill themselves waiting for the infantry army to end turn with his infantrymen exactly the maximum distance apart to minimize blast/template hits.

>>54400689
>As opposed to gravspam, riptidewhoring, and everything about the Eldar? Please.

Each of these points could have been addressed without changing the core mechanics of the game.

>>54400651
>ImpotentButthurt.txt
Lol. Nobody cares about your worthless whining, least of all GW. 8th is a considerable step up from 7th, the vast majority of people even on this board agree. Take your autistic screeching about how wonderful gravspam and scatbikes were and shove it up your faggot ass.

>>54390498
>>54393194
>>54393287
I don't think he is calling the templates slow. He's talking about the agonizingly slow movement phase of people trying to mitigate template damage.

>>54387300
>>almost no meaningful cover and terrain rules

>cover actually matters to Marines, Necrons, and other 3+ save units now
>not meaningful

pick one

>>54400676
It wasn't "advice" it was an observation , and we're both anonymous on a chan , I could not force a fart out of you let alone "force" you into playing anything likewise you can not do a damn thing to me .
Unless you happen to such a pathetic mewling pathetic mingebag whom is affected by what they read on the internet and think "words are violence" in which case seek professional help.

All these post hating and all I can say is that I've been having fun. I miss armour facings and I wish some blast weapons were 2 + D6 or something to guarantee some damage, or just have blast wounds spill over I think that would be nice. But in general the game is much more enjoyable than 7th.

>>54400363
Every sisters release in decades has sold like hot cakes. People just don't like outdated metal.

>>54400451
>8th is vastly superior to 7th.
Low bar. Compare it to a good edition.

>>54400738
>gravspam and scatbikes

Neither of those problems are inherent in the rules. They're weapon stats and army list problems.

>>54389704
>Conscripts with orders do the "Fall back & shoot" thing better than the Ultramarines

Hehehe

>>54400817
Said problems were so intertwined into the various armies that a complete overhaul was the only hope of fixing the problem. Plus the fact that the old "core rules" were so far from that you needed like half a dozen separate books just to field a competent army.

>>54400778
Pretty much this for me, 8th isn't perfect but it's better and more fun.

>>54400827
what did you expect from the lot of functionally retarded obsessive compulsive greco roman toilet seat wearing blueberries? Rawbutt Girlyman wasn't the brightest bulb in that box.

>>54400865
>brightest bulb in that box

Lorgar was.

>>54394276
I'm glad I'm not the only one in a similar boat. I'd rather lose a well-fought match rather than win by a curbstomping land slide.

>>54400741
resolving 4+ blasts in the middle of the table full of terrain so trying to get a clear view of what was covered was also painfully slow.
Not talking about people being dicks and arguing, I'm talking about stop, line up tape measure with scatter die, slide the template over, lean way over to try and get good top down view to see whats actually covered. Repeat again, and again, and again.
For one unit shooting.

having to carefully keep your models exactly 2" apart was also an ass.

>>54393408
>>there are more rules for cover and terrain in 8th's BRB than there was in 7th
I feel that it's less since with 7th the cover just has to be in the way and slightly obsure the unit for the unit to get Cover Save, while in 8th they have to be completely within the cover (ex. Woods), and they took out "Gone to Ground" and weak cover saves (tanglewire).

Also I just realized that there is no ruling in moving up/down a Floor Level...

I'm also a little sadden that there might not be rules/stats for small/medium/large buildings, because in 7th I was interested in making an urban (online with TableTop Simulator) where all the buildings were destructible. Not the worst thing since I can probably just make them up or find something I can use in the book.

>>54400897
Please Lorgar was a useful idiot at best and a tool at worst.

>>54401009
My biggest of my many complaints about 8th edition ...some shit is just plain missing or broken. No up / down levels of a building and no vehicle armor facing among other B.S. rushed rules or missing ones just ruin it strategically there's no real sense of risk / reward anymore.I am not asking for 7th edition's "bloat" but I would at least like a compromise between a multitude of rules and the age of scrublords "rules" they could have just gone an easy route by just taking 3 , 3.5 and adding better psyher rules and carefully balanced points levels / effects but nope we get the lie of "two years in development" when the shit feels more like "we spent two months getting wasted in the local pub and here's what we vomited out on a napkin. Fuck you give me money."

>removed templates and blasts
>no more facing for vehicles
>vehicles getting stuck in close combat
>infinite different movement stats to memorize
>no USRs
>almost no meaningful cover and terrain rules
>added steps to shooting and CC but somehow lauded as "simplified"
>termies still suck
>way too easy to get across the board
>close combat is a mess
>fluff hits new low with Deus Ex Machina and Mary Sues
>over complicated list building design
>le everything can hurt anything
>command points
And despite all this bad shit it is still better the 7th

>>54401214
AsI said before 3.5 plus a tweaked psychic phase and 6 months of testing to level out points costs for certain units and to test and buff units no one take and tone down units which have been matt ward'ed and you'd have a more balanced yet still deep enough system to please most fans.. in stead we get babby's first miniatures wargame for those whom want participation trophies for existing without shitting other's people's pants at the concept of having to think with more than two braincells and nor eating their own elbows.

>>54401176
yeah, it was Armour Value that protected a vehicle from shit like Mass Las-fire that can ruin a toughness model, and I felt that AV was strangely well balanced, at least for the ground vehicles.

>>54401290
Sure it could have been a lot better but it is a step up.

>>54401176
I'd prefer a refined version of 3rd edition myself, but if I have to choose between 7th and 8th, 8th is an easy winner.

>>54401333
I'll fully admit 3 & 3.5 were nto at all perfect but overall it was fast , easy to teach & learn and could have made a framework for an objectively GOOD framework for a reasonably deep but relatively fast moving sytem which oes nto have the bloat of 7th or throw everything either away or rape the remains with a garbage truck like 8th tends to do.
Even the lore for the lead up / to 8th and the primaris marines could have been good if they actually took some time instead of mary sueing the shit even more out of guiliman and hand waiving everything to "Cawl made it DON'T QUESTION US!" ya knwo throw guiliman into his own version of the Iron cage scenario where he's failable but still heroic and ya know actually having Cawl building designs for the vehicles and genetics behind the Primaris marines based off of STC's and archeotech recovered from space hulks like the sin of damnation and others.
I'm HARDLY a professional wtier but when my goofy ass can come up with amore belivable story you know your writers no longer give a damn , this is just another paycheck to them.

>>54401373
sorry for my typo's and screw'd up sentence structure mistakes, I'm beat.

>>54401373
Guilliman and his fish out of water, what the fuck is wrong with these people reaction to the state of the Imperium has been great. And I'd say he is going through his own iron cage, but it's one of leadership and politics, where we know he didn't like the way the Emperor handled a lot of his business but he's finding himself have to make a lot if compromises himself, from little concessions to the Ecclesiarchy to acting as a benevolent tyrant and asserting dominion over a bunch of previously freely governed planets. You get the impression he'd rather just stay at home balancing the budget or something, but no one else can do we he can so he's obliged to step up.

>>54401443
I do like they are trying to advance his character past "Pappa Smurf with a kingmaker complex" but still every battle scenario he enters he just mary sue/ gary stu's his way through with really zero threatto him or his shiny new "we don't know how to explain this" Primaris glory boys.

The only weakness we have seen thus far out of them is that Primaris dreadnoughts have much shorter lifespans than contemptor or standard dreads for some as of yet unknown /inexplicable reason.

the Primaris marines were made in an "arms race" against the coming tide of chaos but thus far when the "big bad" is failbadon the armless you really don't have much of a threat...loser couldn't even take Cadia without sacrificing a Blackstone Fortress / amulet of Vaul... Urasker E. Creed was right to punk him out, down to every last word and then some.
Lame bad one the witless/armless /harmless is right up there with Lucius as chaos champions go ..GW want to tell us he's a badass worthy of fear , but they get their asses handed to them more often than ineffectual Saturday morning cartoon villains .
Likewise Guiliman says himself he is failable but damn if he never enters a scenario where does not effortlessly win.. between him cato scicarius and to a lesser extent Mareneus calgar they could fart into a candle and wipe out an entire planet's worth of heretics unknowingly.
I say to a lesser extent calgar as during the Tyranic invasion of Ultramar he was almost felled by the tyranids.
the last failable badass ultramarine whom actually did fail that I can remember cas Capt. Invictus. ( and while notable and genuinely badass that's a bit too permanent a failure for what should be expected of robote guiliman ...there is such a thing as swinging too far in either direction after all)

>>54401731
>but still every battle scenario he enters he just mary sue/ gary stu's his way through with really zero threatto him or his shiny new "we don't know how to explain this" Primaris glory boys
To be fair he's a primarch, he SHOULD steamroll most opposition. Now if he starts dominating against things on his power level it's a problem, but of the top of my head when he has gone up against his equals they've had him on the ropes.

With that in mind, I don't see abaddon as much of a threat for the same reasons you do, but it looks like they're gearing up the traitor primarchs to have an active role again, which both ramps up the threat and gives Bobby G (and the other loyalist primarchs when they start showing up) someone in their weight class to fight. Now if he keeps winning all the time then sure, that sucks, but it's too early to say. Same with primaris, give it a little time to see how they play out.

My real concern is that with the primarchs back in play what are the xenos going to get to keep up; Ynnead is a step in the right direction, but I hope we don't go for an entire edition mostly revolving around Chaos vs Imperial escalation.

>>54401857
>My real concern is that with the primarchs back in play what are the xenos going to get to keep up;

Or even the non-marine imperial factions.

>>54401875
That too.

>>54401933
Crunch wise I pretty much KNOW that if GW doesn't actively push for it ( and knowing them they WILL) then the fanbase will push for Primaris marines almost if nto outright exclusively to fit the meta...meaning GW will see this and quietly standard marine armies will be numberd in days ... as someone whom is working on pre-Heresy and has a chapter of post Heresy Dark angels yeah Primaris marines don't fit their lore AT ALL. I just don't see thse chapters accepting rectuit marines they did not study , recruit , train, enhance indoctrinate and monitor themselves.
ESPECIALLY the Dark angels, Let's face it Asmodai would have way too much "fun" interrogating them in new and "interesting" ways.
The same can roughly be said of Blood Angels Black Templars and Space wolves.. pretty sure any of those chapters would kill the primaris marines if they found out their dirty little secrets of the curse of the wulfen and the black rage /red thist ... the black templars would probably just kill the lot of their recruits out of "suffer not the mutant to live" and immediately judge the "improvement" on the Emperor's grand design as Heresy of the tech priest Cawl... if not go further and vie to have him declared a "heritec of the Dark Mechancicum" and do their level best to kill him.
Yes I know they already have a hand waiving excuse for the black templars to accept them but it really just does not mesh well with the continuity and measure of character of these four chapter well at all.

>>54387300
And why dont you play 7ed ?

Y'all admit that OP and his little DA friend have a severe obsession with picturing sexual acts with a company, all while being unusually assblasted about 8th ed.
Seriously, go to a psychiatrist. This can't be healthy. Did you surprise your father having sex with a commercial before he got out of the closet and left your mother ?
Also, 7th ed was shit and a lot of things got better with 8th. I haven't bought anything yet, only played and watched people play it. It's ten times better.

>>54402204
I hate to say it but play once watch once does not make you a good arbiter if it's good or not from anything more than an anecdotal perspective.

I'm 10 games in on 8th and while it's better than the mess which was 7th it's objectively more watered down than cheap piss beer like fosters .
Instead of making certain units & tactics special or trying what 7th did by making EVERYTHING special ( thus nothing was ,excepting units which were exceptionally bad. ) it knocks everyone down at least 2 full pegs and while the "streamlining" of the to hit on shooting is kinda nice everything else seems to be horribly rushed and still within "alpha test".

Flanking is all but useless now as it offers no tactical advantage past the rare instance of sandwiching a really green player's units in close combat. AV's being tossed out the window mean that armies which were once fielded for mobility in normally infantry heavy armies like Orks / I.G. are now rather pointless as mass infantry blobs are cheaper and objectively better offering a volume of fire which by sheer attrition masses of dice will eventually take down what should be taken down by precise shots/ careful planning in 1-2 turns.

But I am a 3.0 /3.5 fan so as opinions go I will admit I am among the outliers

>>54402204
And your obsession of unquestioningly worshiping blindly at the altar of GW is disgusting and abhorrent.
Love you too ,you ignorant cretinous boot licking normie.

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>>54388359
>Don't forget GW said they're too lazy to bother keeping track of anything and now, in addition to their already inconsistent fluff, they're now not even going to bother with timelines.
>Implying 40k was ever meant to have any consistency

40k was an intentionally inconsistent metal-album-cover come to life since day1, there was just this brief 10-year-period where they gave in to their fans not getting the joke and taking it too seriously.

>>54402109
because even with everything he just said, it's still better than the formation-clusterfuck that was 7th.

Formations
Were
A
Mistake

>>54402038
Those are some valid lore issues. I think it'll boil down to how the Primaris are distributed in universe in the future.

If the only source for Primaris Marines remains Guilliman and Cawl, then yeah some chapters are going to have a problem with it. That COULD be used in an interesting way, with those Chapters wanting Primaris Marines for their effectiveness but keeping them at arms reach when not at war, leading to distrust; could even run with rules like Primaris Marines not benefiting from Chapter tactics in those cases. I don't think they'd do that though.

If the Primaris process itself gets distributed to all Chapters though, then its not such a problem, whether its just to make new marines or a way to upgrade old ones. Dark/Blood Angles and Space Wolves can keep doing their thing and on we go. Guilliman could hand out the process himself, maybe Cawl leaks it for reasons, whatever. I think this is what they'll end up doing; especially if they can make the Primaris process an excuse to upgrade and sell new models of old characters.

That leaves you with a few niche cases like the Templars, where they've going to have to hand wave it, which isn't ideal but its a rock and a hard place, if they don't have at least some pretense for accepting them than you get angry Templar players not getting to use the new toys. And I think the Primaris have enough potential to be worth that issue.

A side note, though I know it doesn't really compare: I remember back when the Razorback first came out, waaaay way back, the White Dwarf that introduced it actually talked about how a lot of Chapters were refusing to use it for various reasons, now its just another tool. I suspect in an edition or two Primaris will be the same, just with more lore ramifications.

It's not worst edition yet, that's still 7th.

>>54402326
I honestly think the 3rd ed army building structure (2 troops and a HQ for everyone!) was fine and shouldn't have been abandoned.

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>>54387300
I'm just glad that they killed TLOS so that little children who started in TLOS-editions don't complain about the different model-profiles messing with their precious cover-rules when a creative converter brings his army to the table.

>>54402340
It was simple streamlined and when ya got a good number of games under belt it was surprisingly fast.

My fastest 4 turn game was about 35 min , Iron warriors V.s blood angels 2000 pts, no special characters. Wiped out 2/3rd's of his force org and he tabled me at the end of turn 4.
was a pretty nice game.

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>>54402340
Original FOC=Best FOC

>>54387300
>roughly 25,000 points of models I have
why would you bother lying here anon?

>>54387300
My god I don't even know where to start. This must be bait.

Thanks for reminding me why I shouldn't bother with /tg/

>>54402379
>There are still idiots in the world that think 8th is boring because of indexes.

That's 5% of the finished product. You've seen nothing.

>>54402340
>shitty tax units were awesome xD

>>54402340
Exactly this , if I had the time to write and the people to test I would LOVE to make a "updated throwback" to / with a slightly more balanced "dexes" and some of the psychic phase enhancements USR's of the later installments , as it should have been as opposed to the hot mess we've had for the past 2 editions.

The ral hard part would be adjusting points /rules for the masses of new models which have come out within the span of 's 13th black crusade / lost & the damned end to today's trainwreck.

>>54402426
the only "shitty" tax units were poorly equipped SM tac squads , unless you're a really a Timmy the munchin win at any cost faggot type.
And even then if you're dumb enough to equip them poorly ( if at all) pile em in a rhino or razorback and use them to claim objectives.

>>54400570
>removing useless slow coinflip RNG makes the game less tactical

Really gets the almonds rolling.

>>54402451
>templates
>armour facing
>coinflip RNG
what

>>54402416
Did you reply to the wrong post?

>>54402451
>Jimmies rustled for the wrong reason .. the tossing out of variable facing vehicle AV i'll hand you as will I the loss of templates , but "coinflip RNG"..you mean the dice? The D6's we've rolled since 3rd edition? if you congrats You just went full retard.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I decidedly do NOT like 8th AT ALL but please elaborate.

>>54402426
>Why can't I take just flyers and nothing else!?

The whole point of the 2 troops requirement was that they were supposed to be the backbone of the forces you were commanding, and while they weren't all great most armies had at least a couple of choices that pulled their weight just fine, and helped make the army look like an actual force and not just cherry picked units from a list.

While I like 8th for the most part I don't like the way the FOC are set up.

>>54402449
Troop units have been tax in most armies since day 1.

If I want to build a specific army (SM heavy mechanize with dreadnoughts, drop pod army, SM artillery with Jump packs elite footslogging IG, abhuman auxiliary, Skitarri robots, Tyranid godzilla, or a toys over boys Ork list etc etc

I should be able to do that without wasting points, time and money on fucking useless troops tax.

Give me one reason why a fucking 3-6 troop tax is good for anything?

Yes there are armies that use troops, there are also armies that don't want or don't need troops.

If I don't want troops in my army, why the fuck should I be forced to use them? Ball in your court, try not to drool on it.

>>54402485
Yes

>>54402510

The 2 troops only became a "backbone" because you need to dedicate an assload of transports and support units to make those 2 tax troops non-useless.

>>54402536
Almost like an actual military force

>>54402512
Well back in the day you sort of could with specialist detachments such as the Imperial guard armored company and this didn't require shitty broken formations ( I played Kult of speed with a heavy emphasis on deffkoptas but even then I realize it's just prudent to stick to a force org as a mobs of boys in trucks and the lot allowed for good flexibility.

eldar even had jetbike detachments and such but outside of I.G. and maybe Tau an all vehicle army while impressive would equal a pretty easy table wipe unless the opposing players dice just sucked in that era.

Necrons aren't by lor or crunch really capable of an all vehicular army orks like to get rought & tumble in close combat , dark eldar..well let's bloody face it their vehicles are composed of cardboard duct tape and used condoms eldar "could" do it but it puts them at a tactical disadvantage unless you're bringing a LOT of lances and are facing a mechanized detachment adeptus sororitas prefer to burn everything to the ground and their vehicles are semi capable of holding up to such but you're going to have to play rushdown to get anywhere.
AdMech could pull this off but yet again that's a pretty deep points sink for things which in the past could be popped pretty easy by kitted up tankbuster squads witha decent 3+ ballistic skill and enough numbers.

what's left? Imperial knights or legio titanicus? ..congrats your army is EXCLUSIVELY vehicular / walkers...and you're paying through the nose for such as in terms of cash sunk into the game.

>>54402266
All of those are valid points. I'm testing V8 again today, this time with a more consistent army, so I'll think of this.
I'll admit I have not played it that much, but since I finally finished converting my vehicles I'll be able to do it a bit more often.
Thanks for the enlightened answer.

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>>54402298
That felt almost affectionate

>>54402581
The lowest grunts aren't useless in a real military force.

You can't get anything done without them.

This is not the case in 40k; for just a few more + points per model you can get a unit with the exact same qualities AND MORE gear more rules more speed more amour whatever.

"Troop" is a useless qualifier with no inherent benefits. Tax.


You keep getting it backwards.

>>54402664
>The lowest grunts aren't useless in a real military force.
>You can't get anything done without them.

Yes you really can

Sincerely,

The Cavalry

>>54402664
There there anon, no one can stop you fielding nothing but Stormravens if thats what makes you happy now.

>>54401176
Well the good new is that GW probably will use what they learnt from the living rulesbook in AoS to update the basic rules if need be later on.

>>54390920
> I'll just strip mah dark angels
> mostly mkvii I'm sure
> 'won't need to buy anything'
You are the cancer that Horus Heresy doesn't need

>>54402512
>Give me one reason why a fucking 3-6 troop tax is good for anything?
First, it was always 2-6 troops

Second, to answer your question: tactical creativity within a structure led to each unit having a tactical purpose within the machine that was a functioning army. While, the ability to pick your favoritest new most effective thing and spam it over and over with no structure save an occasional HQ, lead to boring spam lists, and did nothing but sell enough of GW's newest, most tournament-dominatingly spamable model.

>>54394822
But they do get 1 wound back each turn! Its not amazing but its something atleast.

>>54402664
if you're a careful sneaky git even the lowest meatshield ...err whiteshield units even lowly points cheap guants can be pretty handy in holding objectives and being put to uses the opponent won't think of because of tactcis like the infamous and oft reviled "Distraction Carnifex".

And WAY back in 3rd edition there is the disgustingly polar tactic of nothing but scrublord units in masse... such as a 2k point army back then of almost eclusively maxed out ripper swarms.
Hilarious , cruel , unusual and soul crushing to an opponent of that era when you quite literally pull out a bucket of dice to resolve close combat.

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>>54402664
>>54402536
>>54402426
>>54402512

Timmy, calm down. The rulebook doesn't say you can't spam your favorite unit over and over until you run out of points.

Hell, now thanks to 8th giving everything a chance to damage everything, you don't even need to have one anti-tank spam and a second anti-infantry spam.

>>54402875
I am astounded by the amount of money in so few models.
Wish I wasn't such a poorfag

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>>54402782
actually the powered armored units are robed ( why bother with buying tac squad boxes when I had access to company veteran boxes?) I've got a shit tonne of Mk IV & Mk V heads and I can cast heresy era shoulder pads form the ones I have as well as the period specific bolters , heavy weapons and I have recasts of the forge world stuff.

So don't worry your pretty little Horus Hersey elitist head..everything will be period correct properly modeled WYSIWYG. As it should be.

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>>54402912
Strange how, as soon as they restructured the FoC to allow for single-unit-spam, the best unit to spam was always the both expensive, and new so nobody already had one.

Must be a coincidence.

Pic Related: me upon seeing "unbound armies" for the first time.

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>>54402965

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>>54402981
Wait, let me redo that.

Tournament coming up this weekend,
Max 2 detachments, no FW, Killpoints decide bulk of missions.

I think it'll do alright..

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>>54402653
So glad I made your day , Sunshine.

>>54402512
The issue in my mind is not the troop requirement but what constitutes troops. If there were more troop types besides 'basic infantry with guns' and 'basic infantry with swords' it would greatly improve player choices without leading to mono-unit armies.

>>54403126
Well what's your army? as that can dictate how flexible / useful that squad can be.

>>54403126
And back in the editions in which the old FoC was the word of the day, MOST armies had a good bit of variety in what you could count as a troop (especially when you count all the variant lists, and characters who allowed other units to count as troops.)

>>54402951
> plastic B@C
> don't bother with mkii or mkiii, traditional DA armours
> sticks with easy plastic for 40kiddies
Cancer 4 lyfe I see

>>54403496
kinda presumptive , I have 60 pewter Dark angels robed miniatures from 1998 but converting those means I am going to have to break out the dremmel it's doable but compared to the robed veteran squads it's not worth it as the look is not any better.
As for Mk II and Mk III remember bitch , robed models , all I have to change out is the helmet and the shoulder pads. the bolters and heavy weapons are covered so it's lore and period friendly as well as being something not seen on the tables often. I even have a load of period correct Mk VI corvus beakies parts ready for casting / conversion should the mood tickle my fancy.

Converting Rhinos bikes , jetbikes and land speeders all period correct could not be any easier or cheaper in this modern day and as a LONG time player I have the bitz boxes to keep me going for quite a while anything I don't have in sheer numbers I can either press mold or pour some silicone molds to make resin copies.
Converting terminators to period correct Cataphractii Pattern is easy too with either just a little work and aforementioned molds ot I can go to chapter house studios or other companies spend just a pittance and recast what I need ad infinitum.

Seriously you need to look into companies like Smooth On 's molding and casting materials
you act like making a good looking period correct 30k / Horus Heresey army is some badge of honor / lofty goal / made of unobtanium or at the least out of the reach of "the unwashed masses".
Got any other easily jumped through hoops there oh "high and mighty arbiter of what's superior"?

Though not , you entitled wannabe elitist worthless quim. Take your place of falsely earned snobbery and shove it where it smells funny.

>>54399655
>3rd was better you cum gargler.

Funny way of saying 2nd you got there.

>>54403704
As someone who actually played both, 2nd was fun for Herohammer reasons, but 3rd was a better game.

>>54403731
2nd ed was a blast but while it was fun for skirmish to medium sized( long) games some of the models were a bit facepalm worthy.

ITT: /v/ and /pol/ successfully bait /tg/

I can't wait for summer to end.

>>54390729
I like 8th. And I'm a better modeler, painter, and player than you in all things miniature.

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8th edition

Pros:
>Simplified rules, clutter removed
>probably not as unbalanced as 7th
>???

Cons:
>blast weapons are equally deadly against 50 man guard blobs and 6 man special weapons teams
>everything wounding on a 6 is a totally unneeded rules change, and leads to retarded situations
>morale system is wonky and doesn't actually matter still
>units poorly balanced
>unclear/poorly written rules
>vehicles are now exactly the same as MCs
>boring and dull rules, at least until codexes
>FOCs basically allow you to take whatever the fuck you want, and may as well not exist
>cover system is shitty and broken
>...

>>54400778
>I've been having fun
How dare you, you fucking monster people like you are worst than Hitler.

>>54403794
ah yes but can you paint and sing that you are a
the very model modern major general?

>>54403772
please, you know very well that if all of /tg/ lived on its own board this shit would still happen.

>>54403794
>And I'm a better modeler, painter, and player than you in all things miniature.
Would it be because you work as a big miniature wargame brand salesman ?

8th edition is a lot like 4E D&D it's a game designed in an attempt to streamline the old system and bring new people into the hobby. It's design focus is backwards however as it's focussed on fixing perceived issues of what people didn't like while ignoring what they did like .

So you get

>People didn't like rules arguments over cover, or armour facing , or unit positioning , so we'll remove most of the interesting rules

>People didn't like imbalance, so we'll make everything bland and identical , but oops there's still imbalance anyway

>People didn't like having to put unit counters into their lists, so everything can hurt everything now

>People didn't like morale, so we'll make it obsolete

>People didn't like it when there units got trapped in combat, so we'll make close combat worthless

>People complained when some of our fluff was incoherent, so we'll make it canon that all the fluff is incoherent

>People wanted infantry to be more viable, so we'll make it the only.viable option.

This is a cancerous way to design a game as it's truly stooping to the lowest common denominator and pandering to new players and people whining on forums with no sense how games should be designed.

>>54401009
>I feel that it's less since with 7th the cover just has to be in the way and slightly obsure the unit for the unit to get Cover Save, while in 8th they have to be completely within the cover (ex. Woods), and they took out "Gone to Ground" and weak cover saves (tanglewire).
It's harder to get cover, sure, but it is definitely more rules for cover and terrain

>>54404494
Every point you've made is objectively false beyond the first one regarding facing and blasts. That one is just subjectively wrong. All of the same units are in the game with almost all of the same warhead, so I don't see what's so "bland" unless your idea of unique is fucking worthless 10 point upgrades to sergeants. There are still hard counters fucking everywhere and if you think everything hurting everything is a problem run the math on 30 boys firing shootas at a fucking landraider. Morale actually matters for the majority of armies now, rather than everyone having get out of morale free cards literally in their rules text. Close combat is literally the best it has been since 4th (source: I play orks). Lastly infantry is the exact opposite of what is winning games, the meta is currently 5 stormravens. So apparently you haven't even actually played a game of 8th.

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>>54388359
They have attained the level of US media franchises now.

They Terminator/Highlander/Capeshit now.

The lost State is coming home, Brexit wasn't just for show.

>>54404762
>bland

Most of the units being identical due to homogenised stat blocks.


>Morale

All the armies it would effect like Orks or IG have get out of morale free cards in the form of commissars /

Meanwhile for everyone else you might lose an extra guy and that's about it. It doesn't actually simulate morale at all. I.E units retreating.

> 5 stormravens

One of the few counters to an infantry horde. Yet this is somehow seen as superior gameplay to before???

>Orks

Infantry hordes are insanely good, I agree.

Likewise you've ignored my overall point about the design of the game being dumbed down for the lowest common denominator audience , while ignoring everyone who enjoyed the multiple elements of the game they stripped out in favour of shitty nitpicking. Also you've still got some of GW's shit on your nose, you should wipe that off.

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>Most playtested edition ever

>>54388359
They've been doing that for years, they're just more honest about it than before.

>>54404494
That last part is ironic seeing that it would make all the complaints on this very thread meaningless too. It's not like anyone here has tried to create a whole new ruleset for 40k with any success so you'd only replace one brand of incompetence with another.

>>54399468
You're right, now we just have to like alpha strike spam armies. See? One army build for all factions, it's so much simpler!

>>54398467
Forgeworld has explicitly stated it won't, moron. It's their control group.

>>54399655
But 4th was 3rd, or 3.5, sort of?

Literally all 4th did was consolidate all the updates to 3rd into one place so you could actually play the game without a fuckton of chapter approved duct taped into your old rulebook.

It became impossible for new players to pick up the game because the 3rd book had become retardedly out of date - leading to dumb situations were people could game using different versions of the same rules.

>>54406602

>Literally all 4th did was consolidate all the updates to 3rd into one place

No, there were plenty of rules changes, and the 4ed codexes were shit compared to 3ed.

>>54406728
Where there any significant changes between 3.5 and 4th?

I didn't think so, but maybe my Brain is going soft.

Anyway I think 3.5 was best. 3rd as written is full of problems.

I built a bunch of terrain bits meant to obsure models and grant cover but 8th has the most retarded cover system of all time. If even 1 model is off the "base" of the terrain piece the whole squad loses cover bonus even if the models off cover are out of LoS.
Also getting rid of armor facings and templates means people cant get punished for bad positioning. Me and my friends who play don't spend forever spacing our models exactly 2 inches to avoid blasts. We eyeball it in like 5 seconds. This new edition was created because people complained about WAAC faggots being total rules lawyers when the game has always been about the fluff. Not this Matt Ward/Aos in space bastard child.
7th isn't perfect, I avoid allies aside from Inquisition/Guard with my GK because the allies chart is retarded. And formations are broken so I avoid them too.
I get to keep my templates and my tactical game I enjoy!

Just starting to get into 40k.
So....you assholes are all the ones who won't be playing the new edition?
Phew! I clearly dodged a bullet, there. Might actually have fun with this.

>>54408290
I don't think you're playing the same 40k as most people. If you played for the fluff you wouldn't even need minis, just your imagination and the RPGs.

>>54408290
first, remove the model without cover first.
Models out of cover never got cover because the unit is in it.
Second, the rules explitely say that for scratch built terrain you should define the rules for how that terrain works.
Does it grant cover within 3" if things are obscured?
What area does it define as within it?
What does it have to restrict movement?

Again, the rules tell you to define these features on your terrain.

>>54404900
>Most of the units being identical due to homogenised stat blocks.
fucking how?
no seriously, what is this shit.
People talk about AV and facing for vehicles, but you cannot list that as a complaint then talk about homogenized state blocks as a second complaint if that's all you're talking about.

Initiative was dropped, but movement is in, and more important. S, T, WS,BS, wounds, all still there. In fact Wounds are a bigger thing with damage values, no instant death, multiple profiles on high wound models, and more models having more than one wound.

What the fuck got homogenized?

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>>54410025
Not him, but I think he is just talking about how simplified WS and BS is.

It used to be, lets say a WS 5 marine vs a WS 3 guard commander. (This is just a theoretical scenario btw). The Space marine hits on a 3, and the guard hits on a 4.

Now if the Marine was WS 8 lets say, he would hit the guard on a 2, while the guard now hits him on a 5.

And if the marine and the guard both were WS8, then they would hit each other on 4's.

This is the type of depth people miss, this is unit's skill actually mattering.

In 8th however, the marine would always hit on a 3. And the Guard always on a 4. It's boring, it makes units not feel different. It doesn't make sense for basic guardsmen to always hit a daemon prince on a 4+, it just doesn't.

Again, I am not that anon but I believe this is what he was talking about, and he can correct me if he meant something else, but the point still stands.

8th ed is so simplified that it's boring, lacks real depth and by extension tactics. 7th was unbalanced, but that wasn't because of the core rules. It was because GW is fucking retarded and can't balance books, and purposely makes things overpowered so you buy them Imperial Knights.

I know you probably believe 8th ed is super balanced and will always be better than 7th, but I am willing to bet within the coming months, with releases of the new codexes, the game will become an unbalanced mess.

Good luck anon, I am going to keep playing skrimish games and maybe get into Team Yankee.

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>>54403938
if Hitler did have fun playing 8th edition, then Hitler did nothing wrong

>>54410472
No, you could never hit on 2+, close combat was capped at 3+

>>54389663
Hey, I'll try this retardposting style of yours:

>It's not

>>54387300
The only thing that really bothers me is how much more shit the community became when 8th edition hit.

>>54400247
I forgot fun was a meme, thanks anon.

>>54409887
The game doesn't play closely to the lore when gretchin hordes can take down a land raider.
It doesn't make sense that cannon weapons are now useless against hordes of troops.
And now flanking tanks gives you no advantage.
You're not punished with templates for bad positioning. Only dicks spend forever getting a perfect 2" spread. Most good players eyeball it quick.
We've gone from a Chess level of strategy to checkers. And the new lore is questionable if not just downright poorly written.
I hope they revive templates and armor facings. I want to give 8th a chance but it looks like a childs game compared to older editions.

>>54390729
>latest trend of throwing us long time players/ customers under the bus
>latest trend
What?

>>54413857
>chess level of strategy

Hello baitman.

>>54414931
Ever heard of an analogy? The new edition requires less strategic thinking than any previous edition thus the comparison to moving from chess to checkers is rather self explanitory.

>stop playing on 4th
>come back
>my army has the same models and worst rules for no reason
>look at my second army
>same basic model
>some new stuff
>apparently playing like 3rd is waac
>third army is being replace by a cash grab

All that said the mess that is Shadow war is more interesting, unless both players agree to bring silly and stupid list to 8th.

>>54413857
>chess
>strategy
Pick one, that game is basically who remembers more predetermined moves

>>54413857
They can, but it's a dozen times more likely they won't do dick.

And the lore was never good in the first place. You can't fall off the floor.

>>54415406
See >>54415903
There's a reason chess threads on /tg/ have reached the status of a running gag.

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>>54387300
Why is this thread still up?

Yes OP, we're all GW employees shilling your personally on 8th edition. Get over it and find a new game.

By the way Horus Heresy getting 8thed too. You'll try to deny it, but you know it's true.

>>54416208
Dunno about paid shills but we've definitely got an unpaid shill right here ( read : SUCKER)

>>54416633
Alright, you've convinced me, you're an unpaid shill and a SUCKER. Can this meaningless thread die now?

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>>54416928
>Can this meaningless thread die now?

never. don't you know that bitching is half the fun of this hobby. 8th edition is great, my army (Astra Militarum) is top tier-- I'm loving it-- but its top tier for the wrong reasons. Grots should not be able to hurt Guilliman in close combat. Lasguns should not be able to hurt a baneblade in the shooting phase. Eldar should strike first before necrons in close combat. Tanks should not be able to shoot everything if their tread is poking out of a corner.

Without these stupid little tweaks to water down the rules for normies 8th would have been the greatest of all time

Honestly I think we as a group should just update 3/3.5 to include points adjusted modern units .

Hardly "perfect" but it's a LOT deeper than 8th and just as fast .

>>54402664
>By spending more points you can get better units. That means the basic troops, who cost less, are worthless.

Nigga you okay?

>>54417091
if the US torunament scene can continue WFB 8th ed rules as an option against Age of Skubmare , it's not official but it's at least a freely distributable playable alternative for those of us whom have preexisting armies we wast to play against friends with.
It's not the best option, that would be GW assa whole pulling their heads out of their asses , but if the official writers / rulemakers are so intent on making a schism lets give them one .

Lets give them a reason to improve their actions when it comes to rules.

>>54417045
>Eldar should strike first before necrons in close combat
please I tell me that's a typo. I don't play Eldar but that's so wrong.

>>54417692
it's not a typo , opponents whom charge always go first in 8th ..which makes ZERO sense unless grenades are used to keep heads down like in previous edition ...I play slower initiative armies in past edition but having eldar outpaced by my non stikbom equipped Ork boys feels so freakin weird.

>>54417766
>necrons getting a charge on eldar.
move 5 vs move 7.
not going to happen.

>>54417766
>which makes ZERO sense unless [one of several perfectly plausible abstractions]

>>54387300
We have a good thing going now. Fuck off and never return.

>>54418035
>Implying 8th is good
Y there newbie scrublord, welcome to GW's vehicle for selling plastic crack and being abusive to it''s consumer base.

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>>54418035
Silly bitch 8th isn't "good" , mayhaps you would feel more at home in your insulated little hugbox.

>>54417995
yuor reading retention sucks my ffirend I was arguing my ork boys going first ( note they do NOT have stikboms /grenades) Vs eldar a species KNOWN for having far better reflexes.

I.E. : my big dumb loud oafish greenskin horde whould not be going first in even in a charge Vs a lithe fast and nimble species unless I paid points for a trick / device to force their heads down.

>>54411349
Look 8th ed is already changing me, so many things and characters just flat out hit on a 2+ now that I don't even remember that rule from 7th.

That is the issue, which you are ignoring.

It's boring, and lacks depth.

Having people always hit each other the same is not fun. A guardsmen always hitting an Eldar duelist is not fun, and doesn't make sense,

>No, you could never hit on 2+, close combat was capped at 3+
The point still stands. Lack of depth.

>>54417937
>He doesn't know how charges work

>>54392739
>PP
Bwahahahaha!

>>54420341
said it before Will say it again 8th edition flies in the face of EVERY other edition of warhammer 40k , it's lore ,the very spirit of the game , and any and all concept of dept or strategy.

It's a dull as Dishwater, as boring as watching paint dry, Incredibly unrewarding and has all the fluff / flavor or listening to NPR or watching CSPAN.

You hear that GW you made 8+ foot tal genetic supersoldeirs fighting orks space elves and space communists as well as armies of well armed poorly armored humans in a desperate struggle against unsleapkable alien horros and demonic eldrich abominations alongside crazed flamethrower wielding warrior nuns BORING.

HOW IN THE NAME OF EVERLASTING INFINTE FUCK DO YOU DO THIS?!

>>54391180
Theres a book coming out in November called the Devastation of Baal.

>>54387300
I'm just glad they got rid of TLOS. TLOS was a cancer that existed only to kneecap converters and count-as armies, ensuring that people could only play with GW models, because the model's 3d profile actually impacted the game rules now.

Good riddance to that rule.

Personally I like 8th, and one of the reasons is because I can now flex my conversion muscles without rule nit-pickers crying foul. If anything, I will play this edition much more, but GW will get much less money from me.

So did GW make small editions with little changes on purpose so both 40k and fantasy could be killed by their 8th edition?

>>54401875
>>54401857
Tyranids have that one giand strategist MF that cant die, necrons could pull more different c'tans out their asses, taus i guess could start manufacturing MK 9-billion powersuits and use them for melee or just use commander farsight, ratlings will probably just stay at home and watch it unfurl and the eldar can probably get some of that ynnead juice for bigger badder units.

>>54421471
Hard to tell, but it makes zero sense when AoS could have been given a half year to bake and have it as a side game for Warhammer Fantasy Battles (WFB should have increased points costs and mid nerfs / buffs to make it more approachable and to continue it ) but nope they killed it.

and honestly with that alone we know modern GW does not know how to handle their own IP so it would not surprise me one iota if 8th doesn't kill 40K .

It won't happen "overnight" but more and more the old guard are going to be burned by the new edition and eventually the new players will get burned out because there's just no depth to the game anymore.

Couple that with the fact the new players are not used to the GW cycle of screwing the players so I think this may be the turning point for the property.

I don't want it to go down that route but it's damn near impossible for me to be an optimist having seen much better days come and go for both the company and it's properties.