>Going back over D&D 3.5 >The books are entirely setting

>>54378324
They also give you races, languages, monsters and a western style armory. You are seeing it as 'entirely' setting neutral because you are used to western pseudo-tolkienesque fantasy as a standard. But Try to use 3.5 to run a Medieval Japan or Stone Age game. You can't. System doesn't support it.

Now that's out of the way, much like the monster on the manual don't have to exist in your world as described there or at all, same goes for the gods. Like the races can be included, changed or excluded, same applies to gods. They merely gave you a base pantheon in case you didn't want to fuck around creating one.

Most of the games in 3.5 I played, DMs made their own pantheons and listed which races where or not a thing. Your confusion is unfounded.

>>54378411

>They also give you races, languages, monsters and a western style armory. You are seeing it as 'entirely' setting neutral because you are used to western pseudo-tolkienesque fantasy as a standard. But Try to use 3.5 to run a Medieval Japan or Stone Age game. You can't. System doesn't support it.

OK fair but at the same time, at least when you say 'fantasy game' to a western market they DO usually think of knights, castles, dragons, princesses and yes, Tolkien races. That's just kinda D&D's legacy, especially the last part. I can forgive the game for it's 'setting neutrality' being with the caveat of it being a western medeival style world cause that's what the game sells itself as.

But the gods are SPECIFIC ENTITIES with SPECIFIC LORE and BACKGROUNDS and there's like nothing else in the game like that? At least races and classes are just given vague outlines like "They live in trees!" or "They're hunter guys who're good in the wilderness" but the pantheon it gives is incredibly specific compared to everything else.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just give you advice on what kind of pantheon your setting should have? Throw in a little "don't just let your cleric invent a god so he can have these two domains for no raisin" for the DM and let him be on his way?

The default setting for D&D 3.5 is Greyhawk. Hence the Mordenkainen and Rary spells, as well as the deities. As well as the races for that matter. But you can easily have your own world and use all that same stuff. Hell I usually use the same deities if I'm not cutting it down to 2-3 because it's easier that way and I'm not publishing my setting or campaign for money so it doesn't matter.

>>54378411
>But Try to use 3.5 to run a Medieval Japan or Stone Age game. You can't. System doesn't support it.

It's like you just completely ignored 3.5 Oriental Adventures to try and push your "stop using D&D for things people have used D&D for decades for" meme.

Quit being political with your game assessment. It makes you say dumb shit.

>>54378713
Not a fan of oriental adventures I don't like how limited flavor wise the core classes are

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>>54379513
>complains about how a specific book made to appease those seeking a specific setting feels limited

>>54378324
>With the exception of gods in which case they have an explicit pantheon lined up with lore for each of them that they tell you to use

I'd assume that it's for Clerics and other divine mages who would choose one of those gods to regularly receive guidance and parlay from.

>>54379667
I could go into more detail but this thread deserves to die

>>54378324

3rd Ed and 3.5's default setting is Greyhawk. Creatures and places within Greyhawk are name-dropped in the core rulebooks. The Deities are also from Greyhawk, and that is why they are described as such. 3.5 is not "setting neutral", it's just bog-standard D&D in the bog-standard D&D setting that is so prevalent that it's become almost interchangeable with "fantasy tabletop game setting".

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>>54378411
>But Try to use 3.5 to run a Medieval Japan [...] game

...okay? That was literally the first campaign I ever ran as a DM, back in like 2005 or so. I had this whole Japanese setting called Kyodoku and everything.

>>54379513
Core classes in a full Oriental (non-Rokugan) 3.0 game are Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Samurai, Shaman, Shugenja, Sohei, Sorcerer, and Wu Jen.

You could also (if you have the Rokugan Campaign Setting) throw in the Courtier, Ninja, and (if you hate your players) Inkyo.

That's not really a limited set of options.

>>54378541
I wouldn't say most of the classes are setting-agnostic. Most of the player handbook is, in fact, painting a very specific setting:

The Druid is a very specific, non-standard fantasy niche built into the core rules. Same with Monk and Bard. The world has these quirks even if you ignore all fluff

Paladin and Cleric are tied to gods, which have an established backstory. Healing magic harms undead, and is exclusive to divine classes and bards. Clerics are specifically geared with an ability to fight undead and are heavily armoured, which is also setting-unique.

Wizard is tied to a Vancian type of magic used very rarely in fantasy. Likewise the schools of magic and that wizards and sorcerers gain familiars is painting a specific image. Sorcerers are specifically tied to a dragon's ability to cast magic and shapeshift into humanoid forms.

All the races have backstories laid out in short. Humans being the dominate race is represented by them having an extra feat, which is a ridiculously huge bonus compared to the fairly niche abilities of other races. Many races have purely flavour abilities specific to the basic setting, such as Gnomes hating Goblinoids.

Magic spells are usually associated with and named for their creators, there are various magic schools, levels of spells, etc.

Actually there isn't a lot that's plainly setting-neutral at all

>>54378324
>gods
Dude, there are MASSIVE AMOUNTS of offered gods and pantheons across the books.
Elf gods, dwarven gods, dragon gods, loads and loads, even suggested monotheistic religions and real world pantheons. Choose whatever you want or follow the guidelines in (Complete Divine?) and make your own.

>>54378411
>But Try to use 3.5 to run a Medieval Japan or Stone Age game. You can't. System doesn't support it.
But that's just wrong.

>>54378615
>release no setting guides to Greyhawk itself
>no book dedicated to the Free City itself
>no book dedicated to the various city-states and countries
>most Greyhawk-setting adventures like the Ashardalon path were meant to be placed in literally any setting
You're technically not wrong, but WotC did a fuck-awful job showing it.

>>54378411
>Stone Age game
There are literal dinosaurs in the monster manual, fuckwit.

>>54381450
>Paladin and Cleric are tied to gods
Clerics can follow an ideal instead. You don't HAVE to include them if you think them being able to wear armour doesn't fit your setting. Try cloistered clerics, another base class or favoured souls.
Ditto wizards- don't want them, don't include them. Go spontaneous casters. Beguiler, warlock, dragonfire adept, whatever. Races too, there's a whole host of alternate races and racial features for a GM to make his own donut steal setting.
The books are all parts of a toolbox, not obligatory material.

>Humans being the dominate race is represented by them having an extra feat
What.

>Magic spells are usually associated with and named for their creators
Have you even looked at the back of the PHB? Theer are some, sure, but USUALLY?

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>>54381822
>dinosaurs
>Stone Age

>>54378541
>at least when you say 'fantasy game' to a western market they DO usually think of
No, you're wrong and stupidly think everyone thinks the same as you. If you said "medieval fantasy" that would be one thing but there's lots of other shit from arabian nights stuff, the mystical east and even american folk myths and ghost stories all of which can be described as fantasy and which people think of when they hear "fantasy".

You're just blinded by your excessive focus on niche games and media and ignorance of everything outside your narrow personal experience.

>>54378324
To encourage imagination and DM freedom.