Now that the dust has settled. Can we finally Agree to Stannis

>>54327032
you could have just said "GoT/ASoIaF Thread" instead of posting obvious bait. It even has a TT Game.

>>54327032
1) No.
2) Also, fuck you.

>>54327032
Stanley Baritone is the worst king.

>>54327032
>ambitious
He didn't want to be king, the duty was thrust upon him. How could anyone possibly call him ambitious?

BookStannis did literally nothing wrong so he can't be Evil.

>>54327032
He should have let renly be kong

>>54327308
But renly is kill

>>54327344
Due to Stannis Ambition.

>>54327354
Renly died due to his own ambition

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I'm gonna ignore the bait and post a very detailed and convincing analysis of Daenerys' Meereen arc. It made me utterly change how I view the whole thing.
https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

>>54327165

Even in the show the decision to burn his daughter doesn't make sense.

>>54327729

Eh, Daenerys deals in slaver's bay aren't as bad as many think but the war with the slavers was inevitable the moment they sensed weakness.

>>54327887
Perhaps it was, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. When Tyrion takes a look at what a fighting force the slavers have assembled, he immediately says that slavers are going to lose, badly, and he must make sure "his" company switches sides in time.
And Tyrion doesn't even know about the ironborn yet, or that Daenerys is going to return with dothraki.

>>54327887

War with the slavers was inevitable regardless. She was shitting on their way of life.

Muh slaves

>>54327931

It's all a matter of position, the Ghiscari legions could hold against anything Daenerys had (not counting the dragons). But their conflicting chain of command and complete lack of preparation stole any chance of victory.

>>54327165
>He didn't want to be king, the duty was thrust upon him.

Varys had an especially poignant taunt towards Kevan at the end of the last book that pretty much described Stannis to a letter.

The kingship is not a right, it is a responsibility.

>>54328139
And what makes Young Griff a better king than Stannis? Sure, he is young and pretty, apparently smart and groomed to be king, but in the short time we knew him he managed to display a lot of negative qualities and a severe gullibility.

>>54328178

That's simple, he isn't. Despite all the effort that went into making Yong Griff a good king the reality is he simply will fail short, not for a lack of trying from his part or his supporters but because not everyone is cut out for the position or at the very least to win the position.

>>54328443
>tfw entire Essos rightfully looks down on Westeros for clinging to archaic ideas of kings and lords
Well, not the entire continent, since Yi-Ti is a thing, but you get the idea.

>>54328178
>And what makes Young Griff a better king than Stannis?

He's not, as you pointed out the kid was given every opportunity to become an Arthurian Hero-King destined to retake the throne in the kingdom's hour of need... Yet we meet him and he's petty, vain, and quite the cunt to someone who's only offering him life lessons and advice.

Varys either thinks those are minor issues, or is willingly ignoring them because he can't face the truth. One of the more popular theories out there, and one I personally ascribe to, is that Varys is in fact a child of House Blackfyre, and shaves his head so often to hide his silver hair (just like Egg did with Duncan.) Varys is not a creature that "loves" easily, if he loves at all, but he's clearly got heavy personal investment in Aegon succeeding, and if GRRM is the hack-fraud we know he is, the foreshadowing he put in place earlier will confirm Aegon Targaryen is in fact Aegon Blackfyre.

>>54328178
>And what makes Young Griff a better king than Stannis

The spectre of legitimacy. The realm's been ripping itself to shreds since John Warwick and Richard York went and stole the throne from its rightful* dudes.

King's blood's got power but the Mannis and Robert only had a fraction of Targ blood. Gotta get more plausible Targ in there.

>>54328516
>The spectre of legitimacy
Legitimacy means shit, if it's more profitable to call you a fake. Especially when others have a pretty good evidence of you being a fake, with you being last seen dead, with your head split open. Who will really support Aegon's claim?
I mean sure, he's conquering Stormlands, so I suppose there's that. But North, Riverlands and Vale (will) belong to Sansa. Iron Isles are behind Euron, who's about to decimate the Reach. That only really leaves Dorne, who probably will support Aegon, but even they doubt him being an actual Targaryen.

Also, Aegon is going to look really silly when it turns out that he has no dragons, and Daenerys has three.

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>>54328504
Varys main failing with Young Griff is that he failed to understand what made Aegon, Aegon.

In broader terms, Varys is Like Kreia with Young Griff being his Jedi Exile. Only that Young Griff was/is being taught the Wrong Lessons.

>>54328780
It's not that Young Griff was given the wrong lessons, its that Young Griff is still an individual, and the individual he is isn't really all that kingly or even kind. It's like Varys spent decades pouring talent and gold into crafting this perfect king... But the lessons never stuck. The qualities Varys described of Griff in that moment are especially telling; he knows how to fish, what it's like to go hungry, how to make medicine and do all these other things. He could have learned those things from the people manning the boat, but did he? I kind of doubt it, as he pointedly threw a small tantrum about his lessons on the Seven.

This isn't Kreia and the Jedi Exile who was trained wrong. This is Kreia and the Kedi Exile who was trained right, but the Jedi Exile was a petulant whiny man-child.

D&D are to blame for this move.

>>54328780

Not really, Young Griff is still a bit of a child but he tries we see he wants to be an active and involved king. Going as far as wanting to participate in the taking of Storm's end. I believe his fall will come from a simple lack of talent and ability instead of his minor character flaws. Remember in the end he took Tyrion's advice so shows the willingness to learn and take advice from others.

>>54328876
>Young Griff is still a bit of a child

He's fifteen, he's a grown ass man

>>54328887

I say he is making the transition, he is Jon and Rob age at the start of the books. Back then they were a little childish too.

>>54328876
>Remember in the end he took Tyrion's advice so shows the willingness to learn and take advice from others.
Remember the circumstances in which he took this advice, and don't forget that it's bad advice. Tyrion WILL be Aegon's undoing.

>>54328614
>Legitimacy means shit
It means a great deal to Stannis

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I haven't been following along with the books or show for shit, but isn't Stannis the closest legitimate heir to the throne? Stupid cult religion aside, the land needs a king, and not one that's going to rest on their laurels and not solve the problems that have cropped up.

>>54329209
I'm going to stab you through that visor you fluted cuck

>>54329209
>isn't Stannis the closest legitimate heir to the throne

Naw it's Dany.

King Bob only held the throne based on an extremely tenuous connection to the Targ bloodline and lots of turbomurder.

You need to bring either a lot of Targaryen or a lot of murder. Stannis brought a little of the one and a lot of the other.

>>54329209
>isn't Stannis the closest legitimate heir to the throne?
If we respect that the Baratheon claim supercedes the Targaryen claim then yes. Legally he should have succeeded Robert.

>>54329209
All the "Rightful king" bullshit doesn't mean much. It's just a matter of whoever can manage to actually put their butt on the throne. The Targs did it with dragons and killing, Robert did it with just killing, the Lannisters have so far managed it with money, intrigue and deals. Stannis has so far failed to bring enough to the table to get the crown, so for all his claim he may as well be just another usurper and if he fails history will remember him as such

>>54329604
The lannisters failed. They are being propt up by the tyrells

>>54329604
>All the "Rightful king" bullshit doesn't mean much

Yeah it does. It's an integral collaborative fiction that prevents mass murder just because some cunt warlord wants a pretty iron chair.

The combined cuntishness of Aerys and Robert almost permanently toppled the fiction, and it needs to be restored to at least temporarily to stop all the murder.

>>54329499
Right of conquest is the only true. Heirs are a crock of shit.

>>54329209
>>54329555
But that's only because we as readers know that Bob's a cuck and the kids aren't his.

The actual heir is Tommen, since Stannis has no proof.

>>54329979

Nonsense. Right of conquest is all well and good for uncivilized cucks, but you need heirs and all the other fancy stuff to prevent people from fucking each other with swords all the time.

>>54330056
>>54329961
This. Of course IN PRACTICE yes, divine mandate is bullshit. But all systems of government require participation and a degree of sacrosanctity in order to function. We willfully subliminate our individual mandates so that organization can function and we can all enjoy higher standards of living (get fucked Stirnir)

Divine Mandate is essentially, an open lie, most everyone knows it's a lie, but we still participate for the good of the nation state.

>>54330056
Power resides where people believe power resides, as Varys says. We can all agree that once someone has solidified their power, it's probably in everyone's best interests that we don't start rebelling at every opportunity, but at the same time Dany has about as much right to the throne as anyone with the strength of arms to take it.

You'll notice that only one of Dany's followers is there because he thinks it's hers by right, and really he's only there because he feels bad for serving her insane dad. Everyone else just wants her to be queen and thinks she has a chance.

>>54330104
Also he wants to bone her

Fucking Ser Friendzone

>>54330139

He's talking about Barristan the Unboneable anon

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>>54328855
But he was given the wrong lesson. Aegon became a good king because he was not sheltered and was given a chance to see how peasantry life was at its natural state. While young griff is sheltered who can only see how peasantry life is in a controlled enviroment.

>>54327032
Pretty stoked for him to drown the Freys and burn Ramsay alive.

>>54330624
Walder Frey did nothing wrong. Fucking Robb, he should have just dumped Jayne, get his cute Frey wife and bend the knee until the time was right for the North to rise again.

>>54330720
Robb was sixteen. He was just doing what people told him to do, including his dead father.

>>54330742
Robb is not Ned. If he really took a page from his father's book, he would have left his teenage crush to marry the daughter of one of his most powerful allies like it was agreed previously.

>>54330742
Everyone told him marrying that Westerling Girl was Fucking stupid. He still did it anyway

>>54330046
Didn't Stannis 'write' to every lord of the land saying what Ned told him? Or was that show only?

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>>54330852
>Didn't Stannis 'write' to every lord of the land saying what Ned told him? Or was that show only?
Show only.
In the Books he had already known and was planning on revealing Robert about it with Jon Arryn but Jon was killed which terrified Stannis.

>>54330742
I would have just killed the fucking Freys when they were least expecting it. I mean everyone knows that Waldo's a traitorous cunt. Better kill him to secure your back instead of a tenuous negotiation with him, he was likely to drop whenever he got a better offer.

>>54330852
I'm not sure if Ned's letter reached him in the books, but he was already aware of the incest and preparing himself for the civil war for a bit by assembling his banners, recruiting mercenaries and pirates and conspiring with Stormlords. He sent letters to all the lords of the kimgdom and criers to villages along the coast to accuse the Lannisters and calling all good men to join him after Robert died.

>>54330720
>cute Frey wife
Let's be perfectly fair, the fact that there WAS a cute Frey was seen as an utterly shocking development by basically everybody ever.

>>54330873
Thanks been ages since I read GoT. And I haven't read the others because I'm waiting for the rest to be released. Though considering how that's going....

>>54328780
>Only that Young Griff was/is being taught the Wrong Lessons.
So, exactly like kriea with the exile?

>>54327032
>Now that the dust has settled
fucking cancerous /tv/ crossposter

>>54330874
I don't think he was going to betray Robb before he fucked up, but it's true that he wasn't super into it when the table turned against the North and Riverlands. Frey was the single largest contributor to Robb's army. In one of Arya's chapter you have his relatives talking with Bolton right after Stannis was defeated, and they try to convince him to support their case to negotiate with the Lannisters since they can't possibly beat them and the Tyrells united. The Red Wedding was mostly about taking revenge over all the "slights" he suffered.

>>54330936
>So, exactly like kriea with the exile?
Finally, someone agrees. I hated the fact so many people believe Kreia when she said a Jedi should come to terms with their emotions and not shun them. Fucking Dark-siders

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>>54327032
Fuck off and die OP.

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>>54330921
yay found the image I wanted.

>>54327032
I wouldn't call him evil, stubborn yes, but not evil. He saw it as his duty to become a king, because he knew that Robert's children are illegitimate and that much of the court is corrupt, which he didn't like. In short he has the best intentions but is too stubborn to make compromises when needed, which is the reason he has few allies. There's hoping that GRR won't fuck up his character in the books like they did in the show, fucking hacks

>>54329961

*Aerys, Robert and Ned

Ned could've just kept his god damn mouth shut. Would Joffrey's reign have been messy? Sure. Would most of the cast have been executed or exiled? Probably. Would there have been out-and-out war until the return of Daenerys? Almost certainly not.

Cept for maybe the Iron Born. Who knows if they would've made their grabs without the destabilization.

>>54330742
>including his dead father.
When you get down to it, pretty much everything is Ned's fault. But, due to a convoluted series of events and decisions, it's probably going to end up saving the world and leave westeros with a good ruler, so I guess he gets a pass?

>>54331074
>>54331107

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's important to remember that this whole shitshow is at least half Ned's fault.

>>54330941
Anon, it is time to come to terms with the fact that Grrm has zero pages and will never actually publish WoW

>>54331107
I mean do you thank Lelouch for Empress Nunnally?

>>54331120
>Everyone treats Jon like shit
Neds fault
>Winterfell falls to ironborn/Robb doesn't have any advisers he can actually trust
Catelyn's fault for driving Jon away, but it taxes back to need
>Robb marries the westerling instead of the Frey
Robb grew up seeing Jon get treated like shit because "their" father fucked up
>Jorah meets Dany
Need banished jorah
>Everything in Kings landing
Ned, unversed in politics, fucked up literally everything
>Littlefingers schemes
Ned bones catlyn, littlefingers decided to watch the world burn
>Roberts rebellion
Named after Robert, but causus belli stems from the kidnapping if ned's sister and the death of his family, making him the heir and one of the leaders of the rebellion
>Robert takes throne, becomes shitty King
Between being Roberts best friend and having possession of the rightful heir post baby murder, I'm pretty sure their are several better solutions

Tl:SR-71 it's all need fucking fault

>>54330720
This
>let him pass
>give him your army
>risk being executed or in the very least exiled of they lose the war
>your heir dies in his service
>marries some western slut

Based Walder throwing out the trash

>>54331214
>>Jorah meets Dany
>Need banished jorah
Ned was going to execute Jorah, but he ran off first. And you can't put Jorah marrying a high maintenance woman and sustaining her with slavery on Ned.
>>Littlefingers schemes
>Ned bones catlyn, littlefingers decided to watch the world burn
That's on his brother (or Cat), should've killed Littlefinger when he had the chance.

>>54331214
its all catelyn fault

>>54328933
They were Idealistic.

>>54330955
>Jedi should come to terms with their emotions and not shun them
Yes, they should. You know, like Luke did. Or Obi Wan. Or Yoda.

>>54331267
To be fair, I strongly believe that Walder would betray Robb anyway. It was becoming increasingly obvious that he's not going to win this war (thanks, Edmure), and Frey doesn't back losers.

>>54331830
Not even Edmure Fault to begin with. Robb Never told him anything about his Master Plan. IF anything its Robbs fault. had he been more clear than maybe they could have won.
Then again had they bend the knee to Stannis everyone would have won

>>54331852
>Then again had they bend the knee to Stannis everyone would have won
Isn't it Greatjon's fault for proclaiming Robb the King in the North? It's not like Robb could say
>Uh, guys, I would rather not be king and lead you to the independence you want. Rather, I would like we bend the knee to another southerner and die in his wars.

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>>54331866
It's a shame Robb wasn't their Liege Lord.

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Is Davos, Ned, and Stannis the dream team?

>>54332724
Nope. The dream team is about to be assembled in the next book.
>Daenerys as the queen
>Victarion as her husband, also Master of Ships
>Moqorro as Master of Whispers
>Marwin the Mage as the Grand Maester
Tyrion should not be anywhere near her court - in fact, it would be in Dany's best interest to execute him the moment they meet, but he probably is becoming her Hand.

>>54327032
Ha. Thought that was Stannis with a light saber, done up as a sith lord.

Gotta say. Little disappointed.

>>54327032
More like an overly Lawful, with some weakness of man in him. But still super True Lawful.

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>>54332966

>mfw Dumb and Dumber removed Victarion, the greatest thing to come out of Dance with Dragons
>mfw no grand stupid adventures of the charcoal-armed idiot and his Giga Nigga sidekick

>>54332966
>next book.
>implying

You're here forever anon. Welcome to the boat.

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>>54333274
I really want ASOIAF to receive an animated adaptation. Live action just can't do it justice, and brings numerous problems.

>>54333330
>Comes across an ancient evil basically inconceivable to the average denizen of Westeros
>"Dance with me then"
Waymar is so based

>>54333330

>Books describe the White Walkers as Not!Elves decked out in steel-ice armor and wielding viciously sharp weapons
>Show make them wearing loincloths and leather with shriveled old-man faces

>>54333407
It greatly offends me that show watchers refer to them as ice zombies, because the show made almost no effort to dinstinguish between the Others and the wights at all.

>>54331830
>(thanks, Edmure)
Hey now, that's harsh. Edmure did what he thought was best. He fought a good battle and beat the enemy. Robb should have informed him better, how the hell did he expect his elaborate plan to go without telling his most important captains.

>>54333426
Don't forget the Night King is Literally Satan.

Remember kids, the pointy teeth and horn-crown makes him eeeeevvvvviiiiiilllllllll!

>>54333382
Pretty great last words.

>>54330789

Now, that's just not true. Ned would have done exactly the same thing as Robb, and the book is showing that Ned and Robb both suffered their downfalls for the same reason: that they valued internal honor over external honor.

(note that the story doesn't comment on whether it's morally better to value one over the other; it only shows the consequences of putting the former over the latter)

Ned discovers that Cerci's children aren't of Robert's blood - something nobody, including Robert himself, knows. If he valued external honor, he'd keep his damn mouth shut and continue to serve as the King's Hand, maybe quietly arrange some pretext with Cerci for him to return with dignity to the North upon Robert's death (she'd be happy with him gone home too, after all), and live out a full life with every appearance of being an "honorable" guy. Instead, he acts on what he knows, and basically accuses the queen of high treason and her children of being incestuous bastards without any hard proof - because even if he can't prove it, he knows it's true, and his internal sense of honor guides his actions. This, of course, ends poorly for him. We can also see this in how he much earlier allowed his external honor to be tarnished by pretending to have a bastard son in order to protect the secrets of the Tower of Joy - he puts his promise to his sister ahead of others' perceptions of him, and even of the good of the realm (securing Robert's claim by "dealing with" any Targ-blooded children).

>>54333757
(cont.)

Likewise, Robb takes a minor noble's virginity while in a delirium, which pretty well ruins her prospects in a world that values the virginity of a noble maiden. The smart thing to do for his cause, not to mention the thing that best preserves his external honor, is to either quietly buy her/her family off and sweep it all under the rug, or to pointedly deny the tryst and, if she/her family press the case, imply that Jayne's a whore who's trying to cover up her own sleeping around by pinning it on him. Instead, his desire to follow his father's example - to value his internal honor above all things - leads him to marry (thus legitimize) his fevered one-night stand, even though it comes with a big hit to his external honor (publicly breaking off an arraigned marriage and offending a key noble) and ultimately leads to his downfall.

In the end, Robb's destruction is borne of him following in his father's footsteps, and meeting the same fate.

>>54327032
Yeah, sure. But he was still the rightful king.

>>54327032
he's not really evil per say, but his constant rants about honor have always been pure bullshit to hide even to himself his own selfishness. in the very first chapter we meet him we see him let the man who was basically a father to him be mocked and mistreated and kicks him out of his council because he didnt like his very good advice. which is a habit with stannis only listening to what he wants to hear. he also holds others to standards he doesnt himself live up to. he's willing to punish and reward davos for his sins and his good deeds, but he hardly holds himself or others responsible for unlawful rebellion even when non-insane legitimate heirs still live

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>>54327032
Maybe? I only vaguely recall him.

Did anyone else belongs to the cool-but-forgetable GoT club?

>>54334054

>in the very first chapter we meet him we see him let the man who was basically a father to him be mocked and mistreated and kicks him out of his council because he didnt like his very good advice. which is a habit with stannis only listening to what he wants to hear

What? The reason Davos is his hand is BECAUSE Davos tells him things he doesn't want to hear. Stannis sidelines the maester because he's giving him bootlicker advice, not for daring to voice disagreement.

>he hardly holds himself or others responsible for unlawful rebellion even when non-insane legitimate heirs still live

Which heirs are those? The Targs? They're not legitimate - they are literally the definition of "pretenders to the throne." They're a bunch of Prince Charlies coming over from France, not lawful claimants.

>>54334252
The Iron Throne was a mistake.

>>54327032

Get a load of this traitor Davos.

>>54330720
>>54331267
I begrudgingly admit that every word of this is true.

Frey definitely had cause to break his alliance with Robb, but he already did that when he took his army back to the Riverlands.

However, let's not pretend that the Red Wedding was the same as breaking an alliance. It was a betrayal of the highest order. They deserve to be punished by Zombie Cat.

>>54327032
Nothing he's done in the books (the only thing that matter) supports either point, no.

>>54328139
This from a guy who deliberately caused as much bloodshed as he could so a neurotic child could seize power.

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I haven't read the books, just watched the show. Is book Daenarys just as much an audience insert as far as her political views go? I just can't like that character in the show because it's so obvious that she's going to win, and that we're supposed to root for her. I rooted for Stannis until he was dead, now I guess I'm hoping for the Baelish bailout of Westeros.

>>54329499
Honestly, Bobby B should have declared the Targaryen kingdom dead and his kingdom begun by right of conquest, like Aegon.

>>54332966
>TWOW
>Vic and Tyrion finally meet
>Tyrion cracks a joke about Vic's arm
>gets an axe through his skull

The normie tears would be delicious

>>54334719

In the books, she's a naive young girl who gets in way over her head, has a giant target on her back, and makes a series of compromises to try to accomplish what she thinks is best but ultimately realizes that you can't change an entire culture just by killing a few leaders and hanging up a "mission accomplished" banner. She's presented as idealistic, but definitely not "right."

In the show, she's a STRONG EMPOWERED WOMYN who stands up to the forces of evil and burns motherfuckers who don't appreciate her white saviorism.

So... to a certain small extent, Danny still has some audience insert tendencies in the book (she's the anti-slaver in a slave-owning society, after all), but she's not a "ROOT FOR HER YOU SHEEP" mouthpiece she is in the show.

>>54334728
But he didn't conquer the seven kingdoms

He conquered King's Landing.

The Reach and Dorne would never have accepted him as king except through the Iron throne.

Ned and Jon Arryn were his allies in the war, but wouldn't have accepted him as king by conquest, only through the Iron Throne.

Lannisters were the only ones motivated for that, because they were marrying into the throne.

>>54334796
>and makes a series of compromises to try to accomplish what she thinks is best
She succeeded. Dany is George Bush, but if "Hearts and minds" actually worked. Except then that George Bush decided "Wait, no, I don't like all the peace and compromises I've made, let's throw it all away".

>>54334845
This. This thing has been already linked in this thread, but I'll link it again.
https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

>>54333757
>>54333773
pleb that doesnt know what honor is

Also, Ned would have helped Stannis

>>54334845

She didn't succeed, in the book she left Meereen on Drogon's back with the city in chaos and several of her closest "allies," probably including her husband, revealed to be working against her. The city's in open revolt, with many believing her dead. How is that "victory?"

>>54334971
>Hizdahr
>Working against her
Good goy, listen to what Shavepate says. There's no reason to distrust him.

>>54334971
>she left Meereen on Drogon's back
Yes, which is why I said she threw it all away. She had the Meereen situation handled just fine, but in each chapter she's regretting the way she handled it more and more.
>revealed to be working against her
Revealed by Skahaz mo Kandaq, literally the most biased and unreliable source possible. He hates Hizdahr and meereenese elite, of course he's going to accuse them of everything.
>But he had confessions!
You mean, from all of those people he kept torturing until they started confessing to plotting against Dany?
>The city's in open revolt
That's hardly her fault. The city was fine until Barristan listened to Skahaz and deposed Hizdahr. It's not like Hizdahr grabbed power the moment Daenerys was gone, she literally agreed to him being a co-ruler.

>>54334252
>What? The reason Davos is his hand is BECAUSE Davos tells him things he doesn't want to hear. Stannis sidelines the maester because he's giving him bootlicker advice, not for daring to voice disagreement.

bullshit, his maester tells him straight out to do things he doesnt want to do theres nothing bootlicker about it

>Which heirs are those? The Targs? They're not legitimate - they are literally the definition of "pretenders to the throne." They're a bunch of Prince Charlies coming over from France, not lawful claimants

your kidding right? danny and viserys are the sole surviving children of the last legitimate king, crazy though he was of a three hundred year dynasty that every noble had sworn to obey

>>54333452
Especially a captain everyone knew was itching for a victory because he had been repeatedly humiliated and was losing his people, who he actually cared about.

>>54335325
>three hundred year dynasty that every noble had sworn to obey
You mean, Targaryens? The family that's infamous for popping out madmen? Like that last guy, who burned numerous high lords alive in a fit of paranoia? That dynasty?

>>54334796
She's an inept child who rules by her passions but cringes back and takes half-measures at the last second to mitigate. She's a hypocrite who profited off the backs of a bunch of chimp like savages for whom rape and reave are practically a sacrament. Her good decisions are made by her advisors, who are ruled by their guilt or their romantic love for her. Ultimately, when the hideous damage she has done comes back to bite her, she abandons her throne to flee to the steppe, leaving her loyal followers to fend for themselves. And she has all the usual Targaryen spite, all for the deaths of a father who was a vicious rapist and murdering lunatic, and a brother who cared more about the moist hole he was sticking his cock in than all the harm it caused.

>>54334992
Shavepate is so obviously the Harpy that he must not be.

>>54335567
Yeah, the best thing happened to Westeros is Targs. They were backwards, squabbling petty kingdoms before them.

>>54335567
you mean the madman whose father and grandfather were both considered very good kings? far better than robert

>>54335610
Green Grace is the Harpy. Shavepate is not, but he's still a bad guy. What makes you think there's only one force at work here, in a series where intrigue is one of the main focuses?

>>54335625
Yeah, and his children are Rhaegar, Viserys and Daenerys. Your point?

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>>54334923
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

I always knew that I disagree with Selmy's action, because it just seemed too bold and wrong for some reason I didn't understand.

Now I know.

>>54327657
He died due to Stannis sending a witch to assassinate him with black magic.

>>54335610
Shavepate isn't the Harpy.

The Harpy (whoever it truly is, since it's probably more than one person) made genuine peace with Dany tho.

Shavepate is just a power hungry cunt, looking to blow up the peace and get revenge on his enemies.

>>54335822
that's literally what he just said.

>>54335805
Read the other chapters too. This guy's analysis are pretty spot on, I especially love how he deconstructs Doran - reddit's favourite mastermind, who's really not really all that bright.

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Why do people talk about Dany leaving Meereen on Drogon like she abandoned the city by choice.

I got the impression that she was trying to subdue Drogon and because he was so wild, he just took off with her, not because she willed him to leave.

wtf? Did I misread that?

It would make literally no sense for her to just flee the city and leave behind literally **everything**

>>54335620
Seven Kings and Seven Kingdoms was better, than the artificial frankenstein the Targs forced together.

>>54335886
>Why do people talk about Dany leaving Meereen on Drogon like she abandoned the city by choice.
Because she did. Remember how she commanded him to fly higher and higher, away from the city.

Yeah, she later "wants" to return to Meereen and Drogon disobeys her, but it's heavily implied that it's because Daenerys actually doesn't want to come back at all, which she admits to herself.

>>54335797
Rhaegar and Daenerys were completely respectable people.

Viserys can be attributed as a pompous resentful shoulda coulda woulda been royal, but not inherently evil or bad. Just a rotten apple from his circumstances. he dindu nuffin. he a gud boy.

>>54335928
>Remember how she commanded him to fly higher and higher, away from the city.
not really, but I believe you.
been years since I read it.

>>54335903
No it wasn't unless you're an Ironnigger.

>>54335844
One thing I don't understand is weren't the Yunkai already camped outside her walls with an army when the whole fighting pit fiasco went down?

I think it's pretty clear they were gonna break some peace, no matter how diplomatic Dany was with respect to internal Mereen politics.

>>54335933
>Daenerys
She wonders herself if she suffers from targaeryen insanity, and for a good reason. She's prone to violent outbursts (which she regrets later), attracted to violence and violent people. She tries to keep herself in check and manages not to burn or crucify anyone in ADwD, but if her last chapter is anything to go by, it's about to change.
>Rhaegar
I wouldn't really say he's insane, because we don't know enough about him, but he royally fucked up and didn't think about the logical consequences of his actions. At all. His obsession with prophecies also borders on unhealthy.

>>54335991
In Tyrion chapters, we learn that first Yunkaii leader intended to honor peace, but he died in the chaos. They later appointed another leader, Yezzan, who was also in favour of peace - even though Daenerys was gone, and Barristan was blatantly breaking it - but after he dies, the hotheads take over.

Dany should have just killed all of Mereen's nobility. They seem to work a lot like the Emirati, a class of non-workers who contribute nothing. You might keep a few very poor nobles on the condition they help slaughter their bretheren.

>>54335981
>paying taxes so an inbred retard can throw feasts down south

Good goy

>>54335991
>no matter how diplomatic Dany was with respect to internal Mereen politics
They liked her new external politics too. She let them continue the slave trade and promised not to fuck their shit up anymore. They don't trust her to keep any promises, so they also wanted Hizdahr as a co-ruler - someone they actually trust. She agreed to this too, but we know how it turned out.

>>54335992
>She's prone to violent outbursts (which she regrets later)
You make her sound like Gregor Clegane which is bullshit. At best you may accuse her of rash judgements.
>attracted to violence and violent people
Welcome to women 101.

>>54336045
>Dany should have just killed all of Mereen's nobility
Don't worry, if the next book ever releases, you'll get your wish.

>>54336045
Then have the rest of the world unite against her, by telling everyone that they're going to get massacred like the Mereenese did?

>>54336061
>You make her sound like Gregor Clegane which is bullshit
Well, she crucified more than one hundred people in a single day. This "rash decision" was the reason for all her problems in ADwD.

>>54336052
Better than paying taxes so some northern faggot lord sample my wife during my wedding. Cuck.

>>54336125
If they really wanted to prima noctis your waifu you really think the targs would give a shit?

>>54336052
The Riverlands would be an eternal warzone without the Iron Throne.

>>54335992
ok i see this all the time about rhaegar, and i gotta say: in what fucking universe is it reasonable to assume that eloping with a girl leads to the bloody end of a three hundred year dynasty? seriously the rebellion only happened because a massive confluence of asspulls.

like there was obviously going to be problems, but the sheer extant was not something he could have predicted. the targs had been through much worse at that point

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>Stannis the Mannis as the True King
>Randyll Tarly as commander of his armies
>Howland Reed, Master of Spies
>Davros as Hand of the King

There. With such Westeros will thrive and the people will know peace and prosperity and their enemies fear and doom.

>>54335981
>Oy vey!! You'd better serve me or I'll have my dragons roast literally millions of you alive!!

>Yes I know you as a Northman have literally nothing in common with a bunch of Dornishmen, but diversity is what makes the Seven Kingdoms so great

>Don't forget to pay your taxes, or else the poor women and children of King's Landing might starve. :^)

>>54336157
And?

Who gives a shit about rivertards lmao?

>>54336082
Hahahahaha, what? You think anyone is going to care if she kills a bunch of sand niggers from the most despised kingdoms on Earth? Braavos would probably send her a thank you card.

There should have been no negotiation, only death. When she offers peace, it should be with the knowledge that refusal means death. This worked for Aegon, and it worked for the Mongols. No half-measures. No sorta-oaths. Kneel and obey or die screaming.

>>54336159
Because he knows in what society he lived in.

Stealing away the daughter of a great lord and the wife of another, who are bound by marriage or alliance to two more is pure retardation

>>54336193
>This worked for Aegon, and it worked for the Mongols. No half-measures. No sorta-oaths. Kneel and obey or die screaming.
Yeah that worked out so swell for that Adolph guy

>>54336193
>You think anyone is going to care if she kills a bunch of sand niggers
Well, a lot of people will care. New Ghis, Myr, Yunkai, Qarth, Tyrosh, Volantis... Bravos won't, and Pentos won't, I'll give you that.

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>>54336168

>>54336159
>know your dad is insane and violent
>know he's a paranoid lunatic
>know you are soiling an arranged marriage
>know you are making it look like a kidnapping
>know how a high family MUST respond
>know your dad will chimp the fuck out
>knowing all this, do it anyway
>then hide and let other people die so you can fuck a baby into your bae before going off to die like a pig to a screaming guy with a hammer

Rhaegar was a selfish piece of shit and it seems likely that Lyanna was just as bad.

>>54336203
Oh, and I almost forgot.

Leaving the sister of another great lord for this elopement, when your dad has already pissed off another.

Which leaves... the "loyal" Tyrells

>>54336170
>Oy vey!! You'd better serve me or I'll have my dragons roast literally millions of you alive!!
Big fish eat the little fish faggot. How do you think houses like Stark, Lannister etc came to be kings.
>Yes I know you as a Northman have literally nothing in common with a bunch of Dornishmen, but diversity is what makes the Seven Kingdoms so great
Keep your /pol/ shit in /pol/.
>Don't forget to pay your taxes, or else the poor women and children of King's Landing might starve. :^)
North also receives surplus food and resources during Winter. It's a mutually beneficient.

>>54336255
>know you are making it look like a kidnapping
I swear, all this shit could have been avoided, if Rhaegar and Lyanna actually came clean about what happened.

>>54336159

I don't disagree that "if I elope with this chick, the entire government will be overthrown" isn't exactly something you can see coming, but saying that Robert's Rebellion was an asspull is just ignoring all the shit King Targ's been up to. The smallfolk blame him for their woes, he's pissed off half the great houses and the church... the only thing really keeping the Targaryan dynasty afloat at this point is tradition, plus that everyone in power knows that trying to overthrow him could easily end badly for them, even if they win (rebellions are never good for the entrenched elite - the reason they're "entrenched elite" is because the current system keeps them as such).

That elopement gave two of the most powerful dozen or so people in Westeros a personal reason to risk everything. And as long as somebody else was willing to take the risks, it turned out that most of the major and minor players in Westeros alike were so fed up with Daddy Targ that they were either willing to support the rebellion outright, or at least hedge their bets and try to see which side would come out on top, rather than giving their full-throated and full military backing to the current king.

>>54336144
They obviously did, since the practice became much more obscure. Unlike you nobody is glad to be cucks.

>>54336203
she wasnt the wife, she almost certainly went willingly, and while it wasn't smart it wasnt the pure stupidity from our third person perspective as rhaegar thought he was fulfilling a prophecy to save the world (and maybe he did) and was almost certainly in love with her. from the perspective of some mopey guy in his twenty's that would be reason enough to weather that storm.

>>54336223
It requires that you be able to win and treat obedient kneelers civilly.

>>54336242
A bunch of weakling durkas who can't even march, let alone fight a war properly. Even fucking Tyrion can tell that before the battle begins.

>>54336168

But anon, Howland Reed can't be the master of spies! He's already too busy being the High Septon

>>54336269
>le badass social darwinist
>cries about /pol/

By your logic they deserve to be here since you can't kick them out

>North also receives surplus food and resources during Winter. It's a mutually beneficient

Reminder that this is purely your headcanon, and has never been mentioned in any canon material

>>54336278
Papa Stark could have attainted her and called it done.

>>54336288
Oh, so now he's secretly fucking your wife, right, much better

>>54336298
>A bunch of weakling durkas who can't even march, let alone fight a war properly.
Yeah, but how do you deal with them? Kill their rulers too? Then you just get Astapor all over again.
If Dany wants to both exterminate the masters AND not destroy half the continent, she needs to conquer the cities and establish a new Ghiscari empire, with herself in charge. But we know that she's going to go west eventually.

>>54327032
Ambitious sure, but evil is a little much. Really, the whole show and most of its characters are various degrees of grey mentality. Plus, he was actually the rightful heir to the throne after his brother.

>>54336351
You'd either conquer them all or destroy anyone who attacked you utterly, much like the mongols did when you killed an emissary.

>>54336315
>le badass social darwinist
Simple math of 2 is bigger than 1 is social darwinism now?
>Reminder that this is purely your headcanon, and has never been mentioned in any canon material
From TWOIAF: Aegon's reign began during a harsh winter which lasted from 230 AC until 236 AC. The benevolent Aegon sent massive shipments of food and grain to aid starving northmen, though there were those who felt he provided too much aid.
You almost look like you enjoy eating shit.

>>54336343
It also happens much less. Less cucks = happier smallfolk. You can still apply for it though since you want to be a cuck so bad judging from your posts.

>>54336412
No, you literally excused targs burning tens of thousands by saying that the big fish eat the little fish.

>quote

Very nice but I'll only eat crow if you have a screenshot of the same passage from the book itself

>>54336479
>It also happens much less
Proof?

Bolton and Umber still do it

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I wish normalfags were banned from consuming media be cause it's impossible for them to understand anything that isn't contemporary Marvel movies. He wasn't evil or ambitious, it literally was his duty to be king and he didn't see it as a reward or even as a good thing, nor did he want it, but he thought it was irresponsible and even illegal to ignore it.

>>54336481
>No, you literally excused targs burning tens of thousands by saying that the big fish eat the little fish.
I didn't. It just how the fictional universe rolls. Stronger party subjugates weaker one via violence or assimilation whether you burn them, rape them, wed them, or butcher them. First Men, Andals all did it.
>Very nice but I'll only eat crow if you have a screenshot of the same passage from the book itself
I pointed the reference you stupid cunt. Dig it yourself if you're desperate for confirmation that bad.

>>54336582
Soooooo.... no proof?

I can do that too.

From TWOIAF: Anon was such a faggot not even the might of the Kingsguard could stop him sucking cock.

>>54336500
Same way all crimes happen. They still happen but much less and secretly after being banned. A simple concept really.

>>54336632
Shall i hold your hand to download TWOIAF pdf and check the passage yourself? Do you need your mommy to wipe your grown ass too my retarded friend?

>>54336654
You really think they're going to go to war because some lord raped some literally who?

>>54335822
I can't bring myself to find that any more evil than ignoring your older brother's claim to the throne and declaring war on him.

>>54336678
Do you find it too hard to do it yourself?

Burden of proof is on you.

>>54327657
>>54335822

He had ample time to follow the law and the lawful King, instead he threatened and tried to belittle Iron Stannis. For his crimes, treachery and treason, he was killed. Thus his ambition and disregard for the law was what resulted in his death.

>>54336409
Dany can't really do that; her army isn't that big, and its loyalty is fairly shaky.

>>54336976
As is it's ability to conduct war.

>>54336168
i'm a show-watching cunt, so please tell me, what does Reed have to do with spying?

>>54327308
Why? Renly was a slimy, useless git like all the rest at the court. He has good PR but never held any real power. He was even described as "pretty but useless" by Storm's End former blacksmith, a man who knew him for his entire life.

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>>54337001
He's a major character from the history, that saved Eddard's life at the Tower of Joy against a trio (?) of the greatest swordsmen in Westeros, leads the fairly ambiguous House Reed that is loyal to the Stark's and the North.

Though, despite people having a high and noble and slightly fearful opinion of him, has not been seen in person or tale since the end of the Rebellion.

Also, read the books faggot.

>>54336173
Riverland lords care

So, /tg/, who's your favourite minor character, or minor House?

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>>54336223
>Adolf was a fire and brimstone conqueror.
kek. get a load of this pleb

>>54336303
>>54336303
pray tell me more

>>54338091
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOD7O7migDw

>>54338010
>minor character
Probably the entire priesthood of R'hllor, Moqorro included. I would say Victarion, but he's not really minor, with more than two PoV chapters.

http://www.strawpoll.me/13443163
Let's settle this.

>>54338130
This is fucking retarded.
Fuck you for wasting my time.
>hurr crannogmen are short and sneaky
>therefore if the short high spearow was actually Reed, then it would be pretty sneaky.

kill your-fucking-self

>>54338010
House Florent

>>54336976
Yes,But Gurm is a dumbass and D&D are her biggest fans.She can get shit done in the shows and books because of their incompetence.
>>54337007
Post sauce,i want to see fagfags cry
>>54336223
>Kneel and obey and die screaming.
Fixed it so it applies to Hitler.The reason he failed was because he didn't have the power to win and didn't treat the guys who surrendered fairly.
>>54337875
Fuck them.The rest of Westeros shouldn't have to suffer becausde of their stupidity.

>>54328499
And Yi-ti is a shitshow thats been having the war of 5 kings every few years.

>>54338643
>The reason he failed was because he didn't have the power to win and didn't treat the guys who surrendered fairly.
The strong survive and the weak perish anon

>>54338643
Donaly Noye says it.

"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

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>>54339195
>Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets

>Trusting the words of a one-armed blacksmith

Stannis is steel, it takes commitment and dedication to stay the course of a position that is both unpopular and hard. Robert was pure iron, his path was easy, his reign was short-sighted and narrow minded, utterly unchanging to all factors.

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>>54339227
>One armed blacksmith

He watched the Baratheon boys grow up, made Robert's hammer and fought with Stannis in the Siege of Storm's End, where he lost his arm. He spoke from personal experience with them, as he knew them. Robert really would've made a great ruler if Lyanna didn't die and he didn't become a depressed wreck, and that description fitted Stannis really well until his character development later on. Renly's still a faggot.

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>>54339266
How can we know that? What's to stop him from looking to Cercsi or other women upon marriage to Lyanna, he was a known whoremonger. Upon marriage this behavior would not have stopped, it would of paused, but resumed.

>>54339313
Because the few times he applied himself, it turned out that he was really good at ruling and politics. The whole reason he fought in the war was to save Lyanna, the only woman he truly loved, and she was taken from him, and Jon Arryn made him king, even though he didn't want it.

But when push came to shove, he turned out to be really good at ruling. He was charismatic, he made friends out of enemies, he managed to keep the peace for over a decade even though none of the kingdoms had real any reason to be together anymore and he won the Greyjoy Rebellion. If he wouldn't have been a depressed wreck thanks to Lyanna's death, and wouldn't have been forced by Jon Arryn to be king (again, a position he didn't want), he would've made a great lord and would've been considered a great man.

>>54338476

Oh, it's just a little tinfoil hat stuff to keep us from going insane while we wait for the sixth book that will never come. Don't take it so seriously.

I mean, it's certainly less ridiculous than the "The Drowned God is Cthulu and Euron will summon him" or "Varys is a merman" theories, and some people seem to take those seriously. No need to get bent out of shape.

Does the Euron = Daario theory hold up?
I remember hearing it a while ago, and it sounded convincing, but now looking back it seems like bullshit.

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>>54339431
>Varys is a merman
wat?

>>54339578
No. Like all theories, it's dumb as fuck and doesn't account the story-telling aspect of its' implication and how dumb they are.

>>54339578
It was made up because we didn't really know what Euron was up to. Now that we know, it doesn't hold up.

>>54339595
>https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/1gvbr7/all_spoilerstheory_the_best_theory_about_varys_i/?st=j55soh0w&sh=3c629e03

It's... not quite sound.

I actually, legitimately believe that Roose Bolton is a vampire (at least, in the same sense that the Starks a werewolves), though, so I probably shouldn't cast stones

>>54339712
I love the one about Mance being Ramsay.

>>54339712
Well, you might be right in some way. It seems to me like he's based off Vlad the Impaler.

>>54336157
Then the riverlords will have to get stronger or die
It's what the drowned god would want :^)

>>54339643
>we didn't really know what Euron was up to. Now that we know, it doesn't hold up.
When did we learn what he was up to?

>>54339903
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TOzYKnHHFS87I2B1Mx1xaF0zoR5pjdl5bLh9Fzi6Dts/edit
Right here.

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>>54339169
pic related
>>54339801
Why?
>>54339195
Copper had many uses in the middle ages.He should've used a gemstone in that comparison.

>>54340500
This theory hinges on several points
1) There must a reason Mance is alive in the books, and why he was given this glamour necklace, and why he was sent to Winterfell. His newfound ability to disguise himself magically is way too much of a Chekhov's gun.
2) The Pink Letter that "Ramsay" sent to Jon Snow notably lacks a seal. It also uses the language real Ramsay would never use, because nobody south of the wall calls Night Watch "black crows". Only a wildling would say that.
3) Mance has all the reasons to press Jon's buttons and get him to Winterfell. He has this whole "Betrayed my trust and stole my army" beef with him, and there's no way he just agreed to free "Arya" with no agenda of his own.
Ramsay, meanwhile, only has real connection with Theon and slightly Asha. Apart from being a monster, there's no thematic reason why Jon should fight him, he barely knows the guy.

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>>54340650
>1) There must a reason Mance is alive in the books, and why he was given this glamour necklace, and why he was sent to Winterfell. His newfound ability to disguise himself magically is way too much of a Chekhov's gun.

Stannis needs him. is the reason why he even lived in the first place.

>2) The Pink Letter that "Ramsay" sent to Jon Snow notably lacks a seal. It also uses the language real Ramsay would never use, because nobody south of the wall calls Night Watch "black crows". Only a wildling would say that.
1. Stannis has captured Maester Tybald of the Dreadfort, and therefore he has access to pink wax to seal the letter.

>3) Mance has all the reasons to press Jon's buttons and get him to Winterfell. He has this whole "Betrayed my trust and stole my army" beef with him, and there's no way he just agreed to free "Arya" with no agenda of his own.
Ramsay, meanwhile, only has real connection with Theon and slightly Asha. Apart from being a monster, there's no thematic reason why Jon should fight him, he barely knows the guy.

Wrong, it's Stannis who is forcing the confrontation. Stannis has a motive. On more than one occasion Stannis offered Jon the Stark name and Winterfell, but each time Jon has refused because of his vows, his belief that Winterfell should go to Sansa, and the fact that he would have to turn against his father's gods if he was to accept Stannis offer and claim his fathers castle.

I need more than a sword from you.

Jon was lost. My lord?

I need the north.

and it easily to misconstrued Jon's actions of leaving the Night's watch into Ned's bastard Son trying to Avenged his family.

>>54327789

She asked for a raise.
The decision was perfectly logical.

>>54341148
Wait really?

>new episode tomorrow
Lads, I'm scared. How are they going to rape the books this time?

>>54341205
They already did

>>54333382

He takes after his father.

>>54335805
>>54335844

In Selmy's defense he really needed to take charge to break the siege.

>>54341302
>doesn't break the siege
>only restarts the insurgency within the walls by breaking the peace
k.

>>54341205
>watching the show
absolutely disgusting.

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>>54341205
>Lads, I'm scared. How are they going to rape the books this time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5JyOtxovo

It's too late.

>>54341397

The moderates on the slavers camp were dead or dying, peace wasn't going to last long anyway. I still agree that he got play by the Shavepate but the army outside the gates needs to die before the Volantis fleet gets there.

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>>54341205
>Still watching the show
You've gone past being an abused wife and into full retard territory.

>>54341439
But the Harpy was fully okay with defending against slavers coalition. Needlessly pissing them off was a mistake.

>>54336367
there are some full on monsters.
Like irredeemable nothing good about them monsters.
The Mountain, the Bastard, the Tickler, a several others.

They aren't the main characters, but they are there.

>>54341420
That wasn't even the worst bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcCawhWkwUg&t

>>54342069
>Naw. *asshole smile* Nuwitends.

>>54342128
“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell. “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.” “I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne. “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three. “And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light. “No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

>>54342069
>>54341420
>>54342128

Now now, anons, there's no need to argue over whether the Tower of Joy or Shireen-gate is a more ridiculous failure (though for the record, I'd have gone with "A bastard in-law whose book role is to advocate for peace murders the Prince of Dorne, her bastard children murder the heir by teleporting onto his ship, and somehow this makes her the ruler of Dorne").
The important thing is that we all agree that they're all terrible decisions, and it's a terrible, terrible show.

>>54342195
Sounds like you just need the bad poosy.

>>54330139
Jorah doesn't think the throne is hers by right and he basically doesn't give a fuck about her crusade. He just follows the pussy.

>>54342223
You want a good show but you have bad writers"

>>54342166
"I looked for you in the riverlands, where Rhaegar Targaryen died," Ned said to them.
"We were not there," Ser Gerold answered.
"Woe to Robert Baratheon, the man who killed him, if we had been," said Ser Oswell.
"When Tywin Lannister took King's Landing, his son Ser Jaime the Kingslayer slew Rhaegar's father, King Aerys Targaryen, with a golden sword and I wondered where you were."
"We were somewhere else," Ser Gerold said, "or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother Jaime Lannister from the Kingsguard would burn in seven hells."
"I came down on Storm's End to help out Stannis because he was under siege," Ned told them, "and Lord Tyrell who was in charge of the siege dipped his banners, and all his knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them. The knights."
"Our knees do not bend so easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.
"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with Khaleesi and her brother Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."
"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell. "But we're the Kingsguard and we don't flee."
"Not then, not now, not ever," said Ser Arthur. He left his helm off so that we could see his face more clearly.
"We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.
Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
"I fight for the North," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Who do you fight for?"
Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
"Your sister."

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>>54342223

>tfw this is an actual line from an emmy award-winning script

>>54342602
>Award-winning
Anon please. You know who exactly gives out those awards and why.

>>54334719
Dany is exactly as retarded as in the show, but her story is a bit more grounded. In the book it's clear all the time that he makes mistakes all the time.

>>54342695
Her only mistake was flying away on Drogon.

>>54327032
The man has his faults but he's the closest we got to a constitutional monarchy. All of the others rely too much on the divine right of kings bullshit for my 21st century tastes

>>54342711

Well, that and trusting Miri.

And not getting the fuck out of Qarth the second her people were watered and fed.

And abandoning Astapor to fall into bloodshed, chaos, and terror.

And leaving the Yunkish nobility intact, so that they could immediately re-enslave everyone once she left.

And nailing up 163 masters in Meereen, immediately poisoning the nobility against her.

And leaving her dragons free too long, until Drogon went semi-feral and ate a child.

And...

And...

And...

>>54342847
In the book all of this is because she's just a teenager who is too romantic, naive and immature.
In the series, she's just an idiot that gets everything handed to her

>>54342195
>A bastard in-law whose book role is to advocate for peace murders the Prince of Dorne, her bastard children murder the heir by teleporting onto his ship, and somehow this makes her the ruler of Dorne


I'll burn the studio down if they actually try to portray the Sand Snakes as being in the right and make them buddy up with Asha and Danny. Kinslayers, warmongers, and traitors the whole lot of them. They also killed Hotep before he could even use his rad halberd. I wanted to see that thing get used so bad.

>>54335991
They camped an army before her walls in order to make her stop doing stupid anti-slavery shit. She agreed to do so. Mission complete. Showing power so others hear your demands happens constantly.

>>54343099
Kinslaying is totally rad, all the cool kinds are doing it - Euron, Jaime, Sand Snakes, Ramsay, Umber, and they're openly boasting about it too.
>No man is as accursed as the kinslayer
Well, I guess not!

>>54336045
Yes, because slaughtering nobles is a perfectly good idea if your endgame is to reconquer Useless Nobility: The Continent.

Maybe once you start reading the books you'll see how retarded your statement is.

>>54343301
What did he mean by this

>>54339195
The maester (don't remember the name), another man who knew him all his life, also compares Renly's attempt to be a king with his childhood games.

Renly was shit.

>>54339431
>The Drowned God is Cthulu and Euron will summon him

What happens with this one? Gurm is an unoriginal hack and the references to cthulhu are obvious.

>>54342534
>Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with Khaleesi and her brother Viserys.
>with Khaleesi

Fucking showfags

>>54342711
Her mistake was to give a single fuck about some sandnigger slaves from the ass of the world.

>>54342932
So retardedbin both cases, but in the second she's also old enough to be assfucked by Drogo on screen without legal consequences.

>>54342195
>"A bastard in-law whose book role is to advocate for peace murders the Prince of Dorne, her bastard children murder the heir by teleporting onto his ship, and somehow this makes her the ruler of Dorne"
what is this? I can't even place it from my knowledge of the books?

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>>54342613
>(((You know who)))

>>54343099
When do the sand snakes (all the bastard daughters of the Red Viper if I recall) ever kill their own kin?

>>54343131
And when did an Umber?
And when did Ramsay?

>>54336073
plz give me fire and blood, Grrm.

>>54343683
The Dorne segments for GoT are totally divorced from the books.

>>54343813

Follow context, anon. They're complaining about the show, where everyone's busy kinslaying. Jaime kills a super distant cousin of his, Cersei nukes Lancel, Obara's kids murder Doran and Tristan Martell, Smalljon Umber kills... I don't actually know what he did, so fuck him, and Ramsay cooks Roose's goose.

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>>54327032
BookStannis is objectively the Best King.

>>54343889

BookStannis is a corpse outside the walls of Winterfell anon

My dad works in gurm so I know

>>54343923

Can confirm; I'm GRR Martin and this anon's dad has known me carnally, and has read all none of my pages while tickling my prostrate.

>>54343943
>while tickling my prostrate.

Don't you mean you're fat pink mast?

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>>54343954
you're

>>54343889
That might be figuratively true, but I can't see him physically confronting Drogon and actually winning. Not really.

If he were to somehow win it would be from coming at it sideways or through treachery. Yeah, everyone likes Daenerys, but she's been betrayed before.

Getting her out of the way is much easier by going after her than going straight through the dragons. That's like going through a brick wall. That breaths fire which instantly immolates hundreds of people.

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>>54343866
>Ramsay cooks Roose's goose
>Obara's kids murder Doran and Tristan Martell
>Cersei nukes Lancel

my god. I had no idea the show got this far off the rails.
I hope the show gets cancelled soon before more damage is done.

>>54344331
Don't forget Stannis is a Kinslayer also bu killing his Daughter. You know the only person he loved in the world and started the war for because by right she should be queen after him

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>>54344810
... I heard about this, and was glad I swore off the show before it happened.

>>54341148
Seriously? That's shitty.

>>54344810
That's really the thing that bothered me, is that you can't have him sacrifice his daughter without throwing everything about Stannis' character out the window.

>>54344810
>>54344863
>>54341188
>>54344852

Dumb and Dumber have also been on record saying they don't "get" Stannis and can't understand what his character is and why he does as he does, and over time this inability to understand turned into hate towards the character.

The burning and subsequent death at the hands of Strong Woman Who Don't Need No Man Brienne was Doofus and Dweeb writing out a character they despised.

>>54344922
>Strong Woman Who Don't Need No Man Brienne
Which is pretty funny since she turns to putty around Jaime now.

>>54342069
I gave up in season 4 or so.

That's a good young Ned, Dayne looks stupid with the extra sword, if this >>54342166
is the book text, they seemed to have missed the point of the scene, yeah? (oh and "Oh shit! Max Von Sydow!")

Oh and what's with American shows having such quiet dialogue with everyone whispering and then music and fighting super loud? How obnoxious.

Was it season 2 or 3 when the show went off the rails into trash? I think season 2 was still pretty good but there were definitely warning signs of things to come.

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>>54344983
The Red wedding got into their heads. Them Giving Renly and the Tyrells more heroic traits. and much more.

>>54344922
>Dumb and Dumber have also been on record saying they don't "get" Stannis and can't understand what his character is and why he does as he does, and over time this inability to understand turned into hate towards the character.

Why can't modern Westerners understand the goals and virtues of Stannis?

>>54344983
The show died when Tywin did.

>>54345002
You know what hurts? You can pinpoint the exact moment GRRM's heart rips in half. It was during the many interviews after the Red Wedding episode, and throughout the entire thing GRRM was telling the host and audience, "Yeah, you would've seen this coming if you read my book. It's been out for 15 years." That's basically all he was repeating, increasingly frustrated that people only know him as "the guy that wrote the books that inspired the series."

He desperately wants people to read his books because I think part of him knows the show is doing it wrong, but nobody listens. Nobody cares. Nobody fucking cares. In that moment he realized he could write a fucking Tolkien-tier final act for Game of Thrones and nobody would care. Nobody would fucking care. They would only watch the show and that is how his series REALLY ends, not the books.

So he gave up, and he gave up HARD. This is why he's stopped writing Winds of Winter, he just doesn't see the point anymore.

>>54345010
>Why can't modern Westerners understand the goals and virtues of Stannis?

The West, especially America, is now focused on selfishness, things like duty and honor are long fading ideals.

>>54339424
>The whole reason he fought in the war was to save Lyanna, the only woman he truly loved
Also, never actually met

>>54345002
>Renly
What was wrong with Renly really? Yeah, he wasn't next in line, but he did have a point thinking he had the political and social skills Stannis lacked to keep the kingdom working. Or am I miss-remembering?

>>54345064
What that is depressing.

>>54345064
I mean, it's not too surprising. When Harry Potter really started taking off here in the States when the first movie came out, teachers, librarians, parents, pretty much every adult was stoked that kids were actually interested in reading again. They had these bright visions of a new generation of kids growing up and actually reading for leisure again. Then 2007-2011 rolls around when the books and eventually the movies wrapped up, and it still turns out kids weren't even actually that interested, most were only in it for the movies. Like, a lot of them were reading the books because the corresponding movie hadn't come out yet. And most of the kids said "yeah we're not going to read much when Harry Potter is done with"

>>54345134
It wasn't that Renly really had the skills, he had the charisma and charm that the masses liked.
He did have the political acumen to tell Ned to strike at Cersei and her children right away, but Ned, being the honorably boor he was, told Cersei what he knew and that gave away his hand.

>>54345134
>Or am I miss-remembering?

The show makes him out to be some masterful diplomat, but in the books he's only all the charisma of Bobby B with none of the force.

That's the thing to take out of the Baratheons. Stannis is all force with no charisma, Renly is all charisma with no force, and Robert was both. He would've been a good king, a GREAT king, if it weren't for the circumstances of the rebellion and being married to Cersei.

Which historical figure is Stannis supposed to be inspired by? I'm getting some powerful Alfred the Great vibes from him, and I can't quite say why.

>>54345193
UR MOM

>>54345152
A particularly poignant image comes to mind when I read this post, and I'd like to share the gist of it with you here.

>One hundred years ago, they were teaching Greek and Latin in High School
>Today, they're teaching Remedial English in College

>>54345171
>>54345180
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Choosing between Renly and Stannis as king, you wouldn't choose charisma over force?

>>54345180
Was there ever a chance that Robert and Cersei couldn't been well together, or at least tolerate each other? I also wonder who Tywin would've married Cersei off to if the Rebellion never happened, since Rhaegar got married off to the Dornish princess.

>>54345214
The American public school system is fucked for so many reasons, ranging from parents foisting all the responsibility of raising them without giving them any actual authority over the children, to the obsession with standardized testing meaning that students don't actually learn anything and school districts passing people who deserve their failing grade because they don't want to lose federal funding.

Teaching has been my backup plan if grad school didn't work out for me (I couldn't stand the politics and backstabbing of academia), and I still want to teach History, but it just bites knowing that what I'll be dealing with first hand.

>>54345219
>you wouldn't choose charisma over force?

No, because charisma without force is Tytos Lannister, the jovial father of Tywin Lannister who was openly mocked by his own bannermen, something that tore Tywin up so utterly he became the man he was today because of it.

Stannis would make an astoundingly good king if he was ever given power - the man DRIPS authority, and as we've seen whenever he gets an iota of power (whether it's over a bannerman or his own troops) they quickly become zealously loyal to his cause, no matter how hopeless it may appear. The man can command, and he can command very well, his only limitation is being a weakling with no power.

In these trying times, you don't want need a gentle voice, you need a reliable yet firm hand.

>>54345277
>tfw I want to teach History
>tfw I want to teach History to people who are growing up in a post-truth society filled with revisionism and tribal factions

I can already imagine the sorts of things my students are going to say.

>>54345222
>Was there ever a chance that Robert and Cersei couldn't been well together, or at least tolerate each other?

In the books? Yes, Cersei was genuinely happy and in love with Robert up until their wedding night, when he whispered "Lyanna" as he came inside her. Robert was the fuck-up here.

In the show? Yes, when Cersei actually had a child that was Robert's own seed, unfortunately it died of illness and that severed the one hope of togetherness they had.

>>54345285
Ok, I get that argument.

My favorite solution was always making Stannis king with Renly Hand and Crown Prince until another heir could be produced.

Since this is /tg/ I can also admit I played the GoT RPG and had a lot of fun. I had a young noble and hoped to get betrothed to Shireen after a visit to Dragonstone shortly after Robert's death.

>>54345311
I had a pretty based history teacher in high school, pretty much one of the big reasons why teaching became my backup plan. He was pretty balanced and neutral, and I'd like to hope I can do the same.

Odds are I'd probably ramble about not trusting centralized authority and media though.

>>54333773
>Robb takes a minor noble's virginity while in a delirium
As a minor nitpick: it's also implied he was under the effect of a love potion

>>54345002
>>54345002
>Burned a woman rape victim alive. For taking revenge on her attackers

it took me awhile to work out who you were referring to with Daenerys

When you and your family is the one takes revenge on of course she's going fucking burn her. It doesn't matter she was a victim or not.

What sort of bizarre vulcan morality do aheard to?

>>54346557
Not sure how interesting it is.

The house was a small one on the north coast of the Vale. Founder, my PC's father, was a bastard who helped in the rebellion and was given a house and young noble wife, who gave one son (my PC) to inherit, much to the annoyance of an older bastard son.

My character was a noble heir around 13 or 14, he was always sick as a child and spent most time with his mom and in the library. Excellent social skills, very smart, physically weak.

Joined by a ranger/master of hunt PC, who was woodsy, unpleasant, but dead-on with a bow, and an older woman who was a ship captain for my PC's father, she had a younger NPC son, a few years younger than my PC.

We had a fun adventure with a wedding on one of those small isles north of the Vale. Politics and backstabbing and excitement. Normal Westros wedding.

We gathered an entourage to go try to see King Robert as he made his way south after visiting The North. We came across a ruined town that was just sacked, so we tried sorting that out.

This turned into a plot point of some bad guys in the area and we marshaled the House army and chased them around in the hills on the edge of Vale and Riverlands. Lead to a huge battle and finding a lost Targ valerian blade.

We ended up in King's Landing for Geoffrey's coronation and I gave the sword to him, which made him happy, he tried to get me to stay in King's Landing which took a lot of maneuvering to get out of.

It turned out dad used the group to sneak a tortured and near dead Ned Stark out of King's Landing. Which sent us to a quick stop at Dragonstone where I got to meet those Baratheons, then to sneak Ned back to our house to recover and try to somehow sneak Lady Stark to see him.

>>54336500
ned would've purged the boltons if he knew about it

>>54347611
Ned was a "muh honor" retard but even he wouldn't be that retarded.

It's mentioned that the dreadfort is basically unassailable, and he won't risk a large scale rebellion (this southron-influenced tyrant is trying to quash the north's cultural identity!) because of some peasant

>>54343367
Maester Crassen (I think that was his name, anyway).

>>54347923
It's actually Cressen.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Cressen

>>54347787
Ned was gonna behead Jorah for selling poachers into slavery, so of course he was gonna punish Roose as well.

"Honortard" or not, being honorable and doing the right thing, no matter how hard or harsh, is why the north loves him and why they're now fighting with Stannis to save "Arya" and conspiring to get revenge on the Boltons and the Freys.

>>54348049
He wasn't going to behead him, he was going to offer him to go to the NW.

And there's a world of difference between poorfag Mormonts, and the second most powerful house in the North, bound by marriage to two more (Ryswells and Dustins)

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>>54348075
The Mormonts are completely loyal to Ned. If he wasn't gonna show Jorah favoritism, why would've he shown it to Roose?

And no, he wasn't gonna offer him to go to the NW. He was straight up going to execute him because it's his duty to uphold the laws, while the Night's Watch is a secondary option that the accused can bring up and choose, not being offered.

Do you seriously think that Ned wouldn't have punished Roose in some way for breaking the law?

>>54348106
It isn't about showing favouritism, it's about the crisis that will result from arresting the second most powerful lord in the region, who is allied with two more, and will most likely have more joining up (how will the Umbers react, when they're doing the same?)

Ned would want to punish him, but ultimately I'd say that Catelyn and Luwin would convince him otherwise.

>>54348183
Ned was going to punish Tywin Lannister, the most powerful man in Westeros and the head of the most powerful house (Yes, more powerful than the King's) for Clegane's and Jaime's actions and was going to make Stannis king even though everyone around him told him it would've been suicide.

Do you seriously think he wasn't gonna do the right thing when it came to Goose? No punishment at all just because (allegedly) another house does it and because they're the second most powerful in the north?

The laws are the laws and Ned upholds the laws and does right by the commonfolk of the north, and everyone loves him for it. The other lords would've shut their fucking mouth and accepted Roose's because they know he's a truly just man, and also because EVERYONE in the north hates the Boltons, even their """""allies""""".

>>54348254
Because there was nobody to convince him otherwise, Catelyn and Luwin were up north, the rest of the small council were off hunting, Baelish only benefits from the chaos, as does Varys, and Pycelle is a retard.

>>54327143
>Joffrey Caligula
>Puppet Tommen
>Drunken layabout Robert
>Faggot Usurper Renly
>Fundamentalist Pirate Faggot Balon
>Absolute Madman Euron
>Truly her father's daughter Danaerys

Stannis is the ONLY good king. Robb was too good, and now he's dead.

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>>54327887

>>54345277 >>54345311
A-are you guys me?
I hope we all find what we're looking for, anons.

>>54345010
>"I loved her."
>"Who?"
>"Shae."

It really did.

Okay, but where DO whores go?

>>54345193
Given the whole War of the Roses inspiration, I'm almost inclined to say he's Richard, the 3rd Duke of York.

The king is a fairly well-meaning but incompetent sort? Check. The king's wife is a power-hungry type from a powerful family? Yep. He's the heir who feels he's getting slighted, thinks that the people running the kingdom are running it into the ground, and tries everything until finally resorting to force? Sounds about right to me.

>>54331074
If I was in Ned's shoes, knowing what I know now:
1. Would've taken up Renly's offer.
2. Would've informed Stannis that Jeoffrey wasn't legit.
3. Would've fucked off to the North, and try to broker peace throughout the war, siding with whomever gives me protection from Tywin's revenge.

>>54345171
Renly was also very popular with lords, specially the Reach (which is currently feeding King's Landing in the books).