/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54292225
That picture is gold.

>>54292225
>dat dude on the background

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Promethean: the Created - the best of CoFD (nWoD 2.0). In all it's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein meet's the worst kind of tranny's narcissism and relationship drama, simply the best. Better than all the rest.

Better than Werewolf, which is an absolutely stellar second.

>>54292320
I know, isn't it? On so many levels. I just can't stop laughing at it.

>>54292382
but it isn't transexual stuff, it's literal body dismorphia because they're fucking fake people.

>>54292225
What the FUCK is going on with that chick's pants?!?!!?

It looks like stankfaced Steve on the right there is in physical agony because he wasn't able to swipe his mom's black eye liner and feels the absence in his very soul.

>>54292416
The 90's.

>>54292410
Transsexual stuff is body dysmorphia. It's just been cruelly politicized because of the sex aspect. If it were treated like body dysmorphia there would be a lot less mutilated people with a lot less regrets and a lot less unfortunate, confused, maimed individuals taking their own lives as a corrupt industry feeding off of their suffering makes bank.

>>54292410
Yeah he said that didn't he?

>>54292461
I know it is, i'm saying there's a difference since the only prommies that'd have sexual body dysmorphia would be Frankensteins or the rare Osiris that lost their bits. (Not talking about unfinished or extempore because they're.... Meh.)

>>54292474
Pretty much. But what can you do when someone wants to complain no matter what you've said?

>>54292389
Every time it gets posted I find something else to laugh about.

For example I just noticed the guy with the cane.

>>54292483
Not him, but he's right - I believe the original was written very much with the struggles of trans individuals in mind. The newer version sort of filed off some of the serial numbers maybe? I haven't read it, but the original Prometheans was very reminiscent of the trans struggle, but internally and how it tears the people around them apart in a lot of ways from at least a relationship perspective, although in game that's represented by firestorms which are a bit more general in tearing shit apart!

>>54292538
I didn't get any of that from what I read, which was 2e to be fair, but I think you're only gonna see that if you're looking for it. The whole refinements thing really tips the parallel out of alignment.

>>54292561
/tg/ is willing to see metaphors for transexuals in literally anything OPP writes.

>>54292448
I somewhat still miss them

>>54292478
Oral sex is sex, Fairy Pepe

>>54292571
That's probably because despite all the hate 4chan is trannie central

>>54292630
Why is that anyway? You'd think the constant hate would lessen that a bit.

>>54292630
self hating crossdressers

>>54292644
I mean, it's an anonymous site, not like people will know they happen to be transexual unless they bring it up, and even if they do it's not like that knowledge will stick beyond a thread.

>>54292644

Attention seeking behavior. Any attention, even bad attention, is craved.

>>54292644
Orientation has little to do with people's hobbies

>>54292325
>>54291897
>>54291973

WHIZZARDS

>>54291761
If they're smart they'll run with 20th anniversary edition and cancel 5e

>>54292382

There's a reason they make people go through all the psych shit before they cross over.

>>54292644
See >>54292650 also the anonimacy gives them the ultimate power of being able of deciding when and when not they attract attention.

Why do you guys hate transexual people so much man, it's fucked up how often it comes up. Like I'm guessing it's just two guys pretending to be other people but still.

>>54292750
Because they are degenerate scum that undermine civilization.

>>54292750
I don't I hate all the attention whoring a literal less than 1% of the population likes to throw out. An no transvestites aren't trannies so you can't lump them in. Drag queens tend to be so much more fucking chill about shit.

>>54292325
I'm sure there's more to things that what people definitively know, or think they definitively know (and I say this because science is constantly updating, not because it sounds 2deep).

But I doubt the "more" part here lines up with human mythology and conceptions about fictional things like magic.

What do you do when your game is shit but players say they want to continue next friday?

I mean it can't be so shitty if they want to continue but there's no sinergy between characters and they don't seem interested with the overall themes of the setting. We spent the whole session with two characters doing tourism and the third becoming enemies with literally ALL factions in the city.

Is this an average vampire game?

>>54292684
There is a reason. But it's not what you think it is. It's to provide a legal basis for covering their asses in case the transsexual tries to sue after the procedure. Plus extra hours billed. You will find that is becoming a common trick before most elective surgeries, extra hoops and whistles patients are put through to "assess their readiness" but which in all reality are more for both legal reasons and for the almighty dollar. There is so much greed in the medical industry now it's horrific, but what is going on with the trans-trend is an absolute horror story. Professionals who raise their hand to question it are attacked relentlessly by activists, even if their intent is to protect the long term health of the patient, it's heartbreaking and evil.

>>54292783
Not all the versions that are presented. But there is truth hidden in the bullshit, for every true "something" out there there are dozens of fakes but the true ones exist.

>>54292750
I don't hate transsexual people. How could I? I've never met one. And I probably never will, given what a minuscule percentage of the population they are. So to me they might as well not be real. Totally irrelevant to my life.

>>54292760
Go back to /pol/.

>>54292785
Enemy to all the factions in the city, lil bizzare but oh well vampires make enemies with each other on a almost daily basis. Tourism less so, though I guess it'd make sense if you where building up lore and fluff for the setting/domain?

Could try to add some zest, ask them the kind of stuff they want to see?

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>>54292814
Little white boy from the suburban bubble. what a sheltered thankless life you live

>>54292834
.01% of the population, if not less. Nobody is likely to see one except on TV.

>>54292806
It would be more believable if you said hundreds of fake ones for every true one. Thousands, even. If magic was real in any meaningful, substantial way, I doubt there would be any doubt about it.

>>54292824
I will not let the truth be quarantined. People need to see how wrong things are, and staying among people who already realize does not achieve that goal.

>>54292804
>I want to hack off my junk
> ... Are you of sound mind?
>OPPRESSION. WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME?

>>54292841
That's probably accurate to be honest, I was just kind of running with the expression. The point still stands.

>>54292225
Me on the left.

>>54292834
So outside of this apparent bubble you assume I live in, transsexuals are everywhere? Or is it the opposite, that you travel in the same circles as them and know a good number, so you think they're everywhere? Which is more likely?

>>54292866
How do I learn magic? I asked this on /x/ in their magic(k) general. They never got back to me.

>>54292834
You are scum. I look forward to watching you hang on the day of the rope.

>>54292872
I talked to your dad who likes to go downtown in a mini skirt and get pegged by Pros whil bemoaning the fact you were ever born

What the fuck is this thread.

>>54292783
I am a professional, I work in a field that would definitely be called a hard science - math, physics, material qualities, hard calculations. But when I took my grandmother into my home, when I found out my mom was abusing her, the woman I was told was a crazy old witch, well, she certainly seemed crazy, but she was anything but. There was a lot of old folk stories that were probably just stories, but some of the stuff, there was sense in it, if you listened, really listened, and she knew things - I'm not talking this Tarot guy's stuff, but, well, my sons and daughter know, they're the only ones I'll share it with, I'll just say listen to those you trust, and respect your elders.

>>54292890
You know my dad? Can you tell me where he is? Because he went to go fishing about 25 years ago and got lost.

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>>54292902
Your mom left you out of the barn again?

>>54292882
It's not that simple. There isn't much people can do on their own, it's all about other entities.

>>54292902
H E L L
E
L
L

>>54292914
See this is exactly what I'm talking about.

>>54292916
What, like Pact?

>>54292912
He sucked off a fish and then got hooked on fish semen they shed into the tap.

>>54292806
Have you ever thought that the fakes might be out there to dissuade people from investigating? It's very easy to sway people by convincing them they would look like fools for believing in something or even appearing to giving it a hint of credence.

>>54292832
Not actually literal tourism. They're all new to the city and decided to explore it (which is normal) but they ignored any hint related to the political and religious conflicts. I don't know if I was too subtle with the hooks or if they just wanted to chill and walk around the city doing nothing.

The third one wanted to build a cult and he basically insulted literally every other vampire in the city except one in the process. He's popular with some mortals, but if he continues like that I'm gonna have to have him killed and I don't want that. I mean it's not fun to say "some dudes dragg you out during the day".

>>54292927
More like mutual favors. Most people are never going to see a major spirit, only the small ones.

>>54292944
Pact is a web serial where magicians do magic by making deals with spirits and such.

>>54292905
Fake Magic covers up real tragedy. People don't need magic to be utter shits to each other

>>54292841
Have you ever thought that the fakes might be out there to dissuade people from investigating? It's very easy to sway people by convincing them they would look like fools for believing in something or even appearing to giving it a hint of credence.

>>54292953
Ah. That seems like it. Generally small stuff though, the only successful one I ever managed was a minor informational one that used to be used by the ancient Armenians.

>>54292962
>>54292935
This guy needs mental help

>>54292935
>>54292962
You only need to post once.

Alright, so we had a thread about trannies and a thread about magic. If we put them together we might actually have a (W/C)oD general.

>>54292962
Yeah, I doubt that's true. All it takes is one determined person to bring the truth to light, and I bet when it comes to something like this there have been and are way more than just one determined person. Unless there's some sort of Veil/Masquerade shit going on, the lack of actual evidence says a lot.

Trannies and magic is bog standard for a WoD thread.

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>>54292996
Continue to be that guy

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>>54292996

>>54292986
>>54292976
Replied to the wrong post and thought I deleted the first. Oops. Also the recaptchas are getting outrageous tonight.

THIS THREAD IS SHIT

>>54293006
The reason you don't see more evidence is that it's really hard to do anything big. Most effective magic/ritual/pacts are really minor nudges and stuff, where likely the only person who will know beyond a doubt it worked is the person who did it, if that.

>>54292996
Still better than Magefags .

>/x/ and /lgbt/ in one thread
YOU DON'T EVEN NEED THE OTHER BOARDS

>>54292871
Are you serious?

>>54293015
What's the problem?

>>54293038
Right, plus it's more about shifting odds than throwing fireballs.

Hey wait a minute, Mr. Wizard, why don't you go online post proof of your magic?

>>54292902
Pretty much a microcosm of White Wolf's audience.

>>54292871
LONDON
L
O
N
D
O
N

>magic is real
>but also piss weak and not even a big deal
Somehow more disappointing than if it didn't exist at all.

So, How's Beast's Building a Better Legend?

I haven't had a chance to read it, and wonder if it's worth the trouble?

>>54293057
Yes, i am a qt goth waifu, ask me anything

Of course not, you wanker

>>54293060
That's what I mean. 99.99% of it is odds on a task, information, personal capacity (stamina, strength, intelligence, nothing overtly superhuman though) or general safety.

>>54293060
Crowley once bragged about shattering a glass with his mind
Or when he "allegedly" demonstrated the power to mentally force an individual to trip over air and fall over.

It's all clearly a crock of shit tho
The Occult is interesting because it isn't real

>>54293038
>Studies years to learn real magic
>Perform the killing rite
>Nothing Happens
>Hires hitman instead
>Sues mentor for scamming
>Mentor asks if the man is now dead?
>Answer well yes now he is
>Mentor: The rite worked
>Shoots mentor in the head
>Now you're dead

>>54293094
Humans can't really do magic on our own, Crowley was a fraud but that doesn't mean the entire field is.

>>54293117
I don't know, it seems like it. Too bad there can never be any real evidence in its favor.

>>54293084
It can still be helpful to your life if you use it right. It has been to me.

>>54293117
>Can do magic
>Can only do small magic
>Can't actually do magic
Wow your magical realm is a total cucks fantasy

>>54293117
The only true "magic" is science

Historically they were both the same thing.
Just look at Isaac Newton.

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>>54293057
>>54293081
Here's a lewd, just for you boys :-)

>>54293084
It's not all weak, there are greater spirits, but they don't really do what we say. They intervene if at all entirely on their own agendas.

>>54293146
HOT

>Collecting the diluted aspects of their strange ancestry, the ritual officiants coalesce into a being Iremite sorcery calls the Herald of Forgotten Stars. It is a demon of collapsed, convoluted space that crawls and grasps with the modified flesh of component mummies, its many limbs and eyes appearing as if through a cracked prism, impossible to fully describe. Shepherds write that sometimes, a tall, cruel-looking man dressed as ancient royalty stands amidst the crawling chaos, half in shadow, and utters enigmatic statements somehow connected to the nearby witnesses. They do not know if he is the Herald, or a being that accompanies it.

What the fuck were the shan'iatu even fucking doing, seriously?

>>54293143
It's not can't do anything, it's about rituals with spirits. Never fast, never flashy, but effective often enough to be worth the trouble at least.

>>54293150
What the fuck would a great spirit want, how does he have an agenda?

>>54293173
Is it really worth the trouble if bad things exist and can get a hold through something as "not necessarily dangerous" as tarot?

>>54293187
The hard part is figuring that out, if you can, that's usually when you can position yourself to benefit from their interference.

>>54293173
>Sucking a spirits dick until it MIGHT do something for you
Is it still incest if your ancestor has been dead for decades?

>>54293199
That's why I use folk rituals usually, really codified stuff that doesn't really have any associated risks. Freeform isn't worth the trouble.

>>54293202
What are great spirits? What are spirits, even? Where do they come from? How can you tell what they want? What do they usually want? How do they have sway over things like odds or information or your body? What can a great spirit do that a normal one can't?

>>54293211
Not all spirits are ancestor spirits, and as a Euro-American, most of mine are not within easy access.

>>54293202
Yeah but in general what do they want? Spirit chicks, spirit cash? Spirit communism? They can't have an agenda if they just fuck around being spirits doing spirit stuff.

Can I fuck spirits?

>>54293258
Better question can you fuck the moon?

>>54293241
>What are great spirits?
More powerful or unique spirits.
>What are spirits, even?
Entities that exist on the spiritual plane and can interact with ours.
>Where do they come from?
Good question.
>How can you tell what they want?
If they think you can help make it happen, they tell you. Otherwise, research.
>What do they usually want?
There is no usual.
>How do they have sway over things like odds or information or your body?
Also a good question.
>What can a great spirit do that a normal one can't?
Bigger things, it's generally a scale more than a binary.

>>54293249
Usually something that perpetuates their existence for the lesser ones, veering into agenda advancement for bigger ones.

>>54293167
Really, really fucked shit that' probably has some interesting implications/plot hooks but is sadly hidden under a... Not to succesful attempt at something new?

>>54293258
Not physically but some can get you off.

>>54293273
This tells me absolutely nothing at all. Ok, what's the spiritual plane? Why would you say it's a good question where they come from yet apparently they come from there? How do spirits communicate with you? What's an example of what one wanted from you, and what did you get in return? Why are you letting these things you know so little about fuck with your body? What if you get spirit AIDS?

>>54293299
What, like in Ghostbusters?

>>54293303
My most successful ritual was with a Groghnik, an writer/information spirit. It wanted me to write down basically any kind of information I could and in give it to it in exchange for letting me see some of what it had gathered. Most of it was useless but a bit was helpful.

>>54293299

>He's never had a Ghostjob

>>54293314
Now that I think of it, kind of, yeah.

>>54293335
Google has zero result for a 'Groghnik spirit'. What culture are they from? How did you find out about them? How did you summon it? How does it gather information? What did it look like? What did it show you, specifically?

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>>54293291
Mummy is rad, I don't know how at least for lorefags it didn't get bigger. The game is definitely pretty hard to run, but it has so much cool shit in here to read and assuming you run a shared universe try to see how the pieces all fit.

>>54293084
what gameline?

>>54293335
So you tell me that I'm feeding a spirit while collecting random data on my phone notes for my games or out of curiosity? And I'm doing it FOR FREE?

Cunt spirit should've manifested to say thanks at least.

>>54293375
>What culture are they from?
Armenian.
>How did you find out about them?
Through a friend.
>How did you summon it?
It's name plus a bunch of descriptions of the surroundings written in flour, left to sit for a few hours with me there and no big activity.
>How does it gather information?
It can read notations as well as anything offered to it.
>What did it look like?
Wispy/shadowlike upper half of a man, scaled down, floating.
>What did it show you, specifically?
Where certain items were, like some of the decorations in buildings around the vague area, stuff people had done in the last few days, mostly people I didn't know. The only vaguely useful part was that someone I knew from work had a dislike for a particular type of music.

>>54293387
Actually that's exactly right, except that they're not big enough to collect all information, each one only gets bits and pieces within their area.

>>54293451
And this was one of the most useful ones you did? You sat around for hours doing nothing after writing a bunch of shit in flour and all you learned was that somebody didn't like LMFAO or some shit?

Gaaaaay.

>>54293451
Nice larp. Why bother with magic when I can just buy a gun?

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>>54292225
The headers for the thread are getting worse.
Here. have some for the next one, fuck.
Let me know if you want more.

>>54293516
I said most successful not most useful. It was the one where the most stuff happened. Other rituals have been more useful. And the information was interesting, even if not useful.

>>54293525
Completely different purposes. It's near impossible to use magic in an overtly destructive way, it just doesn't work that quickly.

>>54293451
Can I ask what line this is?

>>54293528
Fucking werewolves always photobombing my instagram selfies.

>>54293529
How can nobody but the person doing the ritual know that magic happened when the spirit appeared and was clearly visible?

>>54293525
I mean, he could've pointed his coworker with the gun and coact him to reveal his music tastes, but that's kinda illegal.

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>>54293528
Fix my shit up, fampai.

I feel like we've had a tiny bit more mummy talk than usual lately, it is a veritable surge of interest by the usual standard

>>54293516
Also not doing nothing, I was actually browsing 4chan for part of it tbհ.

>>54293547
Sorcerer.

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>>54293561
Or this, whatever.

>>54293555
Because they only appear for the people doing the ritual. If you can get someone who doesn't believe to genuinely do the ritual, including the mental parts, then they'd see it. Otherwise not.

>>54293564
what the fuck is sorcerer i feel out of the loop.

>>54293546
More like it doesn't work at all.

>>54293547
Beast

>>54293583
Have you ever tried it?

>>54293582
Mages but boring.

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>>54293561
Is this of your liking?

>>54293573
Ok, so how is the ritual done? I'll try it.

>>54293593
Why not just house rule some shit to weaken mages and use them?

>>54293604
The one I was talking about with the Groghnik?

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>>54293571
Why not both?

>>54293614
Yes.

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>>54293619
And something so magefags don't feel left out.

>>54293619
>>54293598
Yay! Now I have some thread starters that aren't that puppy in a cape. Thanks anon

>>54293624
Alright, first you need a large amount of information noted somewhere. Then you need to write out an invocation of the spirit, along with a full description of the room you do it in, in flour. Then stay there, you can do stuff just not move fast or leave the room, noting anything else that occurs during the time. After a few hours, the spirit should appear. Give it your notes, and it will give you some in return. Then clean up the flour and throw it away. It's not a big deal if you don't dispose of it, but the spirits generally prefer if you do and will be more willing to do stuff for you in general if you're known as a good sport about stuff like that.

>>54293655
That's not very informative

>>54293655
What's the invocation?

>>54293630
Why the fuck would you make -another- mage faggotry OP picture?

>>54293674
I'm a fucking idiot, sorry. You want to name it, invite to exchange noted information, and offer it the description of the room as a good faith gesture.

>>54293684
>being so triggered by mages that just an op picture of one settling down at a computer makes you mad

>>54293689
Alright, I'll do it.

>>54293707
Should I lurk /x/ for results?

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>>54293684
Why not? I'm a werefag myself, should I go with more furry shit?
I;m hearing/taking suggestions

>>54293718
No, I'll post it here.

>>54293735
We definitely don't need anymore Vampire ones. See if you can puzzle one out for Deviant.

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>>54293735
This one has a vampire

>>54293745
Here as in /tg/ or here as in /wodg/?

>>54293769
Here as in this thread. It should still be here hours from now.

>>54293793
And if not I assume you'll post in the next one?

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>>54293760

>>54293802
Yes.

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>>54293735
Make one out of this.

>>54293630
What's the font and effect on the text?

Just get over it, Plot Devices can be up to anything, so DIsciplines 10 can do anything.
>but muh examples
The examples are EXAMPLES as you said that, not guidelines, not rules, they are there to give you an idea, but if I want the Brujah Ante to use Potence 10 to hold a Black Hole with his hands, I can do it, or if I want some Ante doing some The Flash tier shenaningans with Celerity I can do it, because Plot Device is there to tell me "I can do anything, the only limit is for the thematic to be related to the power in question"

>What about Arch Mages?
They have the same fucking thing, they have Plot Device powers, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them, (If you are playing one) if they are thematically related and the ST allows it then you are good to go.
>Vampires aren't on the same scale, that's not how it works
You cannot impose your canon on what an Ante does and does not and what he's about when the only limit is the ST imagination.
>What about Caine? Can an Arch Mage kill him?
Caine is sheetless, if Disciplines/Spheres were plot devices powers, Caine is an entire character that was meant to be a plot device, stateless and unbeatable, like The Lady of Pain or any other stateless character you can think of yourself, so it's all up the ST, if he allows it, yes you can kill him, maybe to make a compelling ending story, if not he will rape you, and the fluff/crunch is all in favor to the ST, you cannot do anything about it.
>But muh munchkin powerbuilding
Still nope, you're your ST bitch, get over it.
>What about a Plot Device Power against him?
The ST as the name suggests is the one telling the story, if he says that your plot device doesn't fit/doesn't appease him, then you're just screwed.
>then what's the point of discussion if everything is up to the ST and one's fantasy? That's sucks.
No, you suck, because WoD in all its forms is meant to be a narrative game in the first place, not a powerscaling fest.

>>54293871
Where is this coming from?

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>>54293856
The font is Garish Monde, the effect is stroke

>>54293871
>but the game is just a DBZ episode with supernaturals in it
Please find a better ST that's able to actually master and tell a compelling story anon, combat is heavily penalizing in all WoD lines, where you are the bottom tier of the pit and you have to win the game by outsmarting people stronger than you or by collaboration with other players, it is fun to try to run a stronger character sometimes, but that's not the point most of the times.

>>54293871

This is what I work for when I Magepost

Your anger is fucking delicious

>>54293905
Awesome. Now I have everything I need for future shitposting purposes.

>>54293918
Expect it's all about wankery from all splats you illiterate mongrel. At least finitsh to read before spamming, if you don't care then just move on.

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>>54293842
Quite the small image

>>54293828
Forgot to ask, do you live in a rural area? Because in rural areas outside the Greater Armenian region sometimes there isn't a Groghnik within calling distance.

>>54293943
No, it's really not hard to see that you're an illiterate Masquerade faggot.
Congratulations, everyone knows what you're doing.

You don't like the idea that a wizard capable of blowing up galaxies is stronger than your beloved progenitor vampire.

Guess what?
None of this matters.

I'm not even a god-fucking magefag and I'm annoyed by just how far you and your pretentious colleagues can stoop.

Grow up, and stop ruining these threads.
You're no better than your enemies.

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>>54294095
You sound Triggered

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>>54293871
>muh plot device

Literally the only thing Caine fags have at this point

>>54294095
Nice Ad hominem. None of that refutes what he said.

>>54294095
That's what I call a nice argument, my friend.

Also, nice reading overall, you really got it right.
Except I'm a magefag, a vampirefag, a werefag, a demonfag anything but beast fag. I'm just a WoDfag both Classic and New, and I'm just tired of people misunderstanding a game of narration and atmosphere to be a fucking mechanics abuse shit game.

>>54294148
I couldn't care less of Caine, I'm just speaking about the game and how's conceived, to be fair I really don't like the idea of Lady of Pain as whole for example, but to everyone his own.

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>>54293953
Sorry. I appreciate you doing it anyway.

>>54294148
And they only have that if they ignore canon examples of 10 dot Disciplines.

>>54293957
I live in a city apartment.

Hey guy's, I'm new to WoD and my friends and I are wanting to run a semi serious Sorcer campaign using the sorcer rules from Mage: the Ascension.

I'm GMing and I love props so i bought a leather notebook I was wanting to use in the campaign as a ritual book. I want it to give them some benefit like decreased difficulty when doing rituals detailed in it... thats really all I can think of.

Any ideas on what the book should do or tips on how to be a good storyteller?

I've DMed for 9 years

>>54294229
Should be good aside from the constant small chance of failure then, and yes I'm well of how much of a cop-out that sounds like.

>>54294095
You literally are a magefag. You don't need to play awakening or ascension to be a magefag. In fact, I would bet most don't since they don't play at all. Regardless of what you play, acting like you act is what makes someone a magefag.

>>54294279
*well aware

>>54293871
The last time somebody compared Antediluvians/Caine to Archmages/Oracles, things went -real- bad.

Please don't repeat this.

>>54294095
>You don't like the idea that a wizard capable of blowing up galaxies

I have yet to see magefags produce a citation for this.

>>54294392
Masters of the Art. It was a whole big thing.

>>54294392
Some dots in certain Archspheres can grant access to the Tellurian at large.

>Entropy 7 is 'Universal Stagnation'
>Entropy 9 is 'Universal Fanfiction'
>Forces 9 is 'Universal Control'
>Prime 9 is 'Universal Creation'
>Correspondence 9 is 'Omnipresence'

10 dot Archspheres aren't listed and are an entirely "do whatever you want" set of powers.

>>54293871
I hope you realize you just ruined this thread. Thanks.

>>54294356
Except I'm doing the exact opposite.

I'm saying it's useless to argue about who is more powerful when the final power is all about thinking and having fantasy and How much Your ST allows things in General, combined to his personal tastes and opinions and in general the game is heavily influenced by the ST. But it's fine, because wod is about stories and characters, not blowing up galaxies because you are the strongest being ever.

>>54294521
Let's go back to talk about traps.

>>54294553
But removing God's Curse is printed in a book. It has nothing to do with your ST whims.

>>54294568
Yes please, so which splat would be the best trap?

>>54294568
Traps are gay and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>54294600
A Daksha from mage the Awakening

>>54294581
Yes, but Caine doesn't even have a sheet stating anything at all, because it's a "living" plot device, like many others in others rpgs. You can kill Caine only if the ST allows it, otherwise you cannot, because he doesn't have any stat or merit saying "yes he has this thing" or x stat. It was done on purpose to prevent powergaming, like in many other games.

>>54294553
Both are considered Plot Devices, yes.

Yet it's not hard to notice the massive gap in capability when comparing the two at lower intervals.
I agree with you overall, I just think common sense is a rather large factor here.

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>>54294626

>>54294626
Everything is under the ST, anon.

Caine isn't special here.

>>54294646
That's fanmade.
>>54294631
Thank you For understanding my point anon.
>>54294660
Except the ST still has to follow the rules, too bad a sheetless character can bypass any rules, as any plot device power, because they are not based on any rule other than "it must be thematically appropiate"

>>54294631
This.

When the Archspheres and (Arch?)Disciplines are put up, shoulder to shoulder, you really have to wonder if "Plot Device" even matters.

The Archspheres just blow everything out of the water, RAW.

Of course like others noted, the ST can change that. Though, the ST can change anything. Even the color of the sky. So it's not a very good argument I suppose.

>>54294454
While true that the Arch-Spheres outstrip the higher-powered Disciplines by a ludicrous amount, there is ONE thing they failed to convey.

Street tier gameplay. 10 dot Disciplines have never gone further than the planet in scope, thus fitting the worldly theme of the game.
The Archspheres were part of Ascensions annoying "MUH SPACE N' WIZARDS" theme.

Sure, Archmages kick Caine's ass, but Masquerade stuck to home. Ascension did not. I'm happy Awakening didn't have the universe as a setting, and stuck to good ol' mother Earth.

>>54294611
Yes they are, that's why I fuck them showing how manly I am and how gay they are.

>>54294720
I wonder if People even bother to Read anymore.
The ST can change anything, but that would be a variation of the game, you can even create a new discipline, a new clan, tradition, tribe, House whatever, and say this thing can kill everything everest!! That's ok if the players are being informed by this and all godd etiquette we already Know, but the Point is, by using canon material without any House rule plot devices or ST-Tier cheats Plot Devices works without any given Limit on both parts, because it's just up to him what he can do with it, it's basically a way to tell the ST "There, with this you can cheat, without you feeling that you have violated the rules and it would be ok".

>>54294759
Revised ditched the bigger setting of Ascension.

Though that's why many of its fans hated it so much.
The Avatar Storm is still a loathing feature to this day, and entirely optional as of M20.

>>54294809

The ST is never violating the rules, anon. He/she can do whatever the hell he/she wants, as long as his/her players are happy.

>>54294809
I'm pretty sure people are agreeing with you.

They're just acknowledging things you haven't brought up.

>>54294759
Which is ironic because teleporting around the universe is arguably easier in Awakening 2e than it's ever been before in mage.

>>54294809
Caine on the other hand is sheetless and thus statless, it's a White canvas without even the canvas. It doesn't follow the rules if the ST doesn't want him to, that makes him an overall Plot Device. If the ST doesn't want him to die, you cannot hurt him, even if you have Prime 6 or you have orchestrated the ultimate master Plan of Your life. If the ST wants him to die, he could be killer even by a baby strangling him. He doesn't follow the rules.

>>54293760
>This one has a vampire

A werewolf and vampire, but no Kate Beckinsale?

>Horror

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>>54293842
>Make one out of this.

>No Awoo

>Sad Werewolf

>>54294833
Even if you are the ST you still have to follow the rules in the most part, your npcs will still have health, willpower and a nature. A grow vampire cannot lose to a crying child in a direct confrontation if you don't cheat.
Using a Plot Device will allow you to do that, without having to cheat or edit any rules.

>Read the COFD core book

>Find "Inspirations" section of missing persons

>"The Killing", Dutch version.

10/10 troll.

At this point I question if people actually even believe Caine stands a chance against an Archmage.

This topic happens way too frequently.

I cannot believe that the Dark Eras 2 Kickstarter still isn't fully funded, no less satisfied the stretch goal for the Golden Age of Piracy.

Have people finally grown weary of OPP / WW?

>>54294964
Common sense dictates Caine would lose.

Common sense also dictates that the original anon responsible for this discussion is probably a magefag masquerading as a vampfag.

>>54294957
I don't get it. Enlighten me?

>>54294991
>I don't get it. Enlighten me?

It's a Danish show.

>Common sense dictates Caine would lose.

Common sense don't mean shit when one of them literally has God in his corner, and the other one is a virtual deity themselves.

>>54294991

>Common sense dictates Caine would lose.

I thought his stats were 'You lose'.

>>54295022
That's just so the person playing Caine knows they are going to lose.

>>54295020
All 'Archmage vs Caine' arguments always end up like this.

>Caine vs Archmage
>Archmage wins
>Annoyed God vs Archmage
>Uncertain

>>54295022
See >>54294646
(I know it's a joke sheet, but it's still slightly humorous)

>>54294983
I'd rather have actual splat material and supplements (e.g. changling 2e, signs of sorcery) than another setting book.

Of course what I really want is for the books to read as though they were edited proofread products and not a first draft someone shat out and can't be bothered to fix. (1k night, hurt locker)

>>54294964
You are an Archmage. You encounter Caine. You use Forces 9 to eliminate every vampire that ever existed. It does, except for Caine, he's still there and decides to kill you.

You are an Archmage. You encounter Caine. You use Forces 9 to eliminate every vampire that ever existed. It does. You are happy.

Both versions are valid and nobody can say anything about it, because that's How the game is.

>>54295038
I'm pretty sure 'God' was/is an Archmage.

Masters of the Art even hints at it. Twice.

>>54295042
Forces 9 isn't a good example to use in this scenario

Because an 'Anti-Caine' force will do just that.

>>54295042
>You use Forces 9 to eliminate every vampire that ever existed
>ever existed

You would need to add Time into that. Forces 9 would eradicate every vampire currently present, including Caine.

>>54295069
It will not if the ST will decide otherwise. He can just be immune because the ST decided that, and the rules are with him.

>>54295101
Not sure if Caine can tank the universe. No less something that might have caused the Big Bang.

But hey, that's your choice. I'm just going with logic here.

>>54295099
Spheres tends to overlap at that point actually, the force can be retroactive without having to rely on time.

>>54295041
>I'd rather have actual splat material and supplements (e.g. changling 2e, signs of sorcery) than another setting book.

I would hope that OPP was capable of both running a alternative setting Kickstarter AND publishing the occasional supplement.

>false hope

>>54295123

>Not sure if Caine can tank the universe. No less something that might have caused the Big Bang.

Even if he can't: The curse that reflects it back several times? That's gunna be a bitch for the mage.

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>>54292515
That chicks Alpha Fupa

>>54295150
This is true. Forces 9 sounds like it could effectively mimic the other Spheres.

The example 'Force of Thon' was quite ridiculous on its own.
Hopefully no Archmage is an SJW gender enthusiast.

>>54295169
Not sure if the Seven-Fold Curse will be able to tank the universe either. That's also up to you though.
There's also the fact that Prime 6 can delete any God-driven curse/blessing/whatnot. Though it also requires four dots in three other Spheres.

The curse itself is too specific to be of any use to a clever mage. It's far too direct.
Again, this is all up to you. I just prefer to use common sense in shallow discussions like these.

>>54295206

>There's also the fact that Prime 6 can delete any God-driven curse/blessing/whatnot. Though it also requires four dots in three other Spheres.

How does that work? 'Omnipotent' seems to overrule 'Powerful but with limits'.

>Again, this is all up to you. I just prefer to use common sense in shallow discussions like these.

And I question if what you are saying is actually common sense.

>>54295223
Woah hold your horses, friendo. This is all my opinion. It's common sense (for me) in that "this capability is 1000000x more overt than another"

I just don't think Caine will be able to match something that throttles all of existence. Something already on part with God, if MotA is to be believed.

In all of this what we understood is there is only one truth, and that truth is:
>ST Supremacy

>>54294454
I'm fine with Archmages being stronger than Caine. I'm not fine with such powers affecting the entire goddamn setting. Masters of the Art was a mistake.

>>54295315
10 dots Vampiric Powers can affect the entire setting if you want them to.

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>>54295308
That...

...Goes for every tabletop game ever.

>>54295339
I would rather a book outright say that. 10 dot Spheres are ST fiat too, but they don't even need that shit to piss all over everything.

Imperial Mysteries was better done, not that I will ever use it.

>>54295169
>reflects it back several times
>Hard countered by the 9 lives merit.

>>54295339
You keep saying that, yet ST 10 dot Disciplines aren't even universal in scope, going by their examples, and the Antediluvians went ALL OUT.

Hell, Forces 7 can already rival Protean 10.

>>54295351
I fucking love that picture.

>>54295386
I think it would be best to just let him believe what he wants to believe, anon.

>>54295386
Again, examples.
Not guidelines or rules. They are there For inspiration. But you can do whatever you want. I don't see what's so hard to understand.

>>54295407
It's not a matter of belief, it's just how the game works.

>>54295409
>They are there For inspiration

No, they were there for storytelling purposes. The Antediluvians were kind of focal during Gehenna, yes?

>>54295425
That's not what I was getting at, anon.

:^)

>>54295434
Your Point is that you don't care about the truth and you prefer to see this thread infested with pointless wanking forever? I see.

>>54295409
I think the issue here is that you're assuming both Archmages and Antediluvians/Caine are relative equals based on Storytelling shenanigans.

This just screams "maybe not in actuality" based on comparisons and feats. Yes, you can use ST fiat to declare them superior, inferior or balanced and equal, but there is a hard cap point where you really think, well, "really?"

Dumb discussion, been done to death, annoying and pervasive. Archmages win overall, as they just have too much going for them. Yet you can still declare them as inferiors for the sake of your story.

Nobody is arguing against you or that. they're just using, again, feats and comparisons. ST fiat and 'Plot Device' isn't that good when there's no basis surrounding it, other than "do what you do, storyteller."

>>54295450

;^)

>>54292684
>>54291761
LARPer baggage? Someone wanna explain?

If mages are so strong, how is it that they were unable to gank ONE Ante? With help of garou and kuei-jin. And it wasn't some goofy pointy headed binch of grognards, it was the Technocracy. And Zapatawashura or whatever he's called was probably one of the weakest since his clan is basically irrelevant.

Are antes stronger than Caine?

>>54295577
>With help of garou and kuei-jin.
Lets not kid ourselves, no one noticed the wolves doing anything but themselves.
But the Kuei-jin just got in the way, they had to be nuked so that the mages could get at the Ante.

>>54295577
The Technocracy had the final say in the Week of Nightmares. They one-shotted the three Bodhisattvas and nearly killed Zapathasura in the process using nukes.

Beaming down sunlight ended the ancient Kindred. No Archmages involved, 4-5 dots of Forces, mixed with various other Spheres.

>>54295477
But there IS basis. In the lore the power of mages is constantly downplayed, their power to do literally anything ignored, every fucking time they're faced with other splats in fact. See >>54295577

There's no reason this would not apply to archmages when confronted to Caine or any other big metaplot guy from any splat.

>>54295577
>Are antes stronger than Caine?
Antes only rival Caine in specific Disciplines. Other than that, no.

>>54295608
I think you need to re-read a couple of posts.

I also never said it didn't have a basis, just that specific facet of it.

>>54295608
Are you implying the Union struggled to kill the Ravnos Antediluvian?

Do you have any idea just how much infrastructure they had out in reserve?

>>54295601
But he survived the nuke.

>>54295603
Well of course he died from fucking sunlight, he's a vamp. But sunlight is not about spheres, there's even relatively weak werewolf powers that use sunlight. There's probably a non-magic way to roast vamps with technology and we don't claim that hunters are the shit.

>>54295639
They certainly didn't do it easily.

>>54295640
>But he survived the nuke.
He nearly died to it.

Satellites killed him in the end, with the option being that he survived that. Though he's canonically dead.

>>54295651
Define easy? They were originally going to one-shot him using Forces 5, if not for the Bodhisattvas.

They had two steps. Nukes n' sunlight

>>54295640
Enhanced sunlight, yeah. The Union killed one of the founders of Fortitude. Ravnos was supposedly immune to it.

But, y'know, wizards being wizards, they still killed him.

The entire Week of Nightmares was terribly written.

Ravnos had no Correspondence Wards to speak of, the Union could have drone striked him out into the Sahara Desert.

So the God of Abraham is an actual entity in classic world of darkness. What does that mean for other religions (Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Shinto, Taoists, Zoastrians, etc.) ?

Are the scriptures true in setting? Cause that's going to end in an awkward theological debate at some point about homosexuality, tattoos, shellfish, pork, polyester blends, etc.

I'm still not convinced Ravnos really died. Chimestry 10 is a hell of a discipline

>>54295169
>Archmage creates an "Anti-Caine force"
>Sevenfold Curse reflects it back
>Archmage cannot be Caine or he will die
>Archmage has never been and will never be Caine
>Archmage lives

>>54295721
Big 'G' God being the supreme deity (perhaps not as supreme as Ascensions 'Universal Consciousness' w/e) is what entirely ruined the Metaplot.

>"all other religions are offshoots of Abrahamic religions! YAY"
>"well that stinks, the cosmology is just so much smaller now"

Ascension and Apocalypse were far more open.

>>54295733
It's an option given. He IS dead. He's not the only 3rd gen (and above) to die.

>>54295740
>>"well that stinks, the cosmology is just so much smaller now"
Especially because, if you look at the timeline, Hinduism is the oldest religion.

>>54295738
Hmmm, never thought of this.

>>54295740
>"all other religions are offshoots of Abrahamic religions! YAY"

Wait was that an actual concept from a game line?

>>54295755
WW had some fuckin' balls back then

Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk, but i just found out that Dracula's brother (Radu) has waaaay to much gay porn made of him.
https://www.deviantart.com/tag/raducelfrumos

>>54295761
It seemed pretty simple to me. The force you create can be so precise that no matter how strong it is it will never hurt you in the first place. You can't multiply zero by anything to get a bigger number.

>>54295774
Yes. God was responsible for everything. Isn't Masquerade just lovely?

You will be happy to know that both Apocalypse and Ascension flipped it off by declaring 'God' to be nothing more than a powerful Celestine, more so the former than the latter.

>>54295784
No, I mean the real world timeline.

In real money the timeline goes Hinduism>Buddhism>Judaism>Christianity>Islamism.

>>54295740
wow

Magefags actually have a valid reason to hate Vampfags.

>>54295811
According to White Wolf Christianity came first, before all of that.

Praise Jesus.

>>54295811
Buddhism is older than Christianity but I don't think it's older than Judaism.

>>54295825
Further proff that none of the people writing for WW know a damn thing about religion.

Holy fuck. This still isn't dying down? The thread was just made. A single Caine faggot ruined everything.

New bread please.

>>54295813
Everyone has reason to hate Vamp-fags. It's not just us being autistic.

>>54295835
Hold on.
>Goes off to rewatch the history of the entire world, i guess.
Well I guess I fucked up, time to commit sudoku!

>>54295848
It was also entirely off topic. He posted it out from fucking nowhere.

>>54295801
Masquerade doesn't say that. He's just responsible for Vampirism. In fact True Faith can be granted to everyone strong enough to believe in something. And vampires Always has strong ties with Christian religion, it's not surprising that Masquerade has its take on God.

A game that is more "god centric" is Demon the Fallen, but even that can be avoided and downplayed. Also if you want you can be worshipped Like one, so you don't really mind.

>>54295840
I'm not really a religious guy. But even a cursory read through of the white wolf wiki is irritating. Most of this shit isn't even edgy/cool it's just insulting.

>>54295867
No, God is responsible for everything in the world according to Masquerade. Even the Kuei Jin.

Mage and Werewolf does not run by this.

>>54295848
"just made"
Had almost 170 posts at the time I posted
>cainefag
Really? Are you really that willing to falseflag? Please, fuck off, or Read the thread before making accusations.

>>54295890

We got an angry one

>>54295890
Well, to be fair... You kind of fucking the thread over for everyone else. You derailed much and more.

>>54295881
>Mage and Werewolf does not run by this.
God: "I Am!"
Mage: "Yeah sure, we'll bang latter, m'kay?"
Werewolf: "HECK THE POLICE! BORK!"

I want to remind you all that the suggestions for violence groups in Hurt Locker are; 1) Police 2) A religious group 3) Privileged middle class white criminals and finally 4) anonymous.

>>54295801
It's kind of insulting to be honest senpai. But it was the 90's people were edgy wearing sunglasses, trench coats, and buying Katanas and other cringey shit.

But surely most folks realize a lot of this stuff ages like milk right?

>>54295938
>finally 4) anonymous.
Huzzah, now I can live out my dream of playing V!

>>54295721
It made all the sense for a america-centric, vampire-centric modern era fantasy game that it was.

The mistake was making vampires universal. They should've went the kuei-jin way for most of the world, but with more research.

>>54293905
Man I love the doctor from shattered memories

>>54295915
That's just ridicolous, because I just wanted to prove a Point, it's no My fault if other People took it as the 5654 attempt at wanking vamps even if I made the post really clear, just a couple of people actually put time and effort to contribute and respond in a serious manner, if all shitposters just refreined to do their thing it would be a normal side discussion along others in this thread, but we are filled with idiots and falseflaggers. I just want you to don't blame them on me.

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>>54295938
Coincidentally all groups that don't commit 50% of the nation's murders...

>>54295942
>>54295952
What's even more insulting is the fact that both Apocalypse and Ascension knew of this issue before it even happened.

For some reason Masquerade WANTED western beliefs to be THE idealistic cosmology.

>>54295974
Indeed...why isn't there a clown college in the Hurt Locker?

>>54295986
Too spooky.

>>54296008
*HONK*

>>54295041
My only solace is that we aren't at Shadowrun levels of bad... Cause christ man, some of those books. At least OPP has their fans proof read the book for them so they don't need to hire people.

>>54295976
Because it was for westeners in the west?! It wasn't even really meant to be played in Europe. We get it, you dislike christianity but please be reasonable. Werewolf would have no problem with being abrahamic as well because despite it's amerindian rage boner it's eurocentric as fuck.

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>>54296013
I'm right behind you.

>>54296036
Sure. But there are still obvious mechanical mistakes in both 1knights and Hurt Locker post errata that no one can be bothered to correct.

>>54296065
Name 2. (from each book preferably, the worst examples)

>>54296182

>>54292382
Jesus fucking Christ that was a horrible read

Development of "God" in the WoD:

Vampire "The One Above" with a Caine/Abel story that barely resembles the Christian Version

Werewolf: Helios is probably the one above, also there's a bunch of god-like "incarna" spirits, also metaphysical trinity

Mage: Belief defines reality, outside of "cosmological constants" like the metaphysical trinity.

Wraith: The underworld is swirling around the toilet bowl of unbeing.

Changeling: Nothing of value added

KotE: Asia has super special unique cosmology rules that only apply in Asia.

Hunter: The Cosmological Asia spirits are now doing stuff outside of Asia, and they want all spoops dead or cowed for reasons. (see Storyteller's guide)

Mummy: Sekrit egyptian underworld stuff. woo.

Demon: Naw, that shit's all gay. A is for Adam, B is for Bible, now gimme dat faith, or I'll fuck you in da eye-hole.