Is Sephiroth actually a good villain? I'm seriously debating

>>54274920
Depends, if you only take VII he's kinda ok but as soon as you expand into Crisis Core and everything else he turns to shit.

He's a poor copy of Kefka, but in the setting of VII, he'll get the job done.

>>54274920
You need to ask yourself this question.

Was he in a Final Fantasy game? Yes he was. Therefore he is shit. You could argue that 7 was the best FF game but if that bar was any lower Hermes would ave trouble limboing under it.

>>54274920
>Good
No idea, never played so I have no grounds for judgement.
>Overexposed
Hell yeah, a generic demon Lord would be more original at this point.

>>54274973
People always say he was a copy of kefka but iirc the only real similarity is that they both become gods which is like jrpg cliche in general.

>>54274977
Bullshit.

Fft? Ff6? Ff5? Ff4?

Those can be argued as best ff. Ff7 is just the one most pleb 90s kids played first. Like zelda oot.

Kefka and Dycedarg are good villains in an ff game. Hell, fft has a cast of good villains. Wiegraf, Gafgarion, Delita, Delacroix, St. Ajora.

>>54275022
They're both nuts.

He's fine, yeah. The look is an easily stereotyped and of an aesthetic that I think probably reaches its most extreme interpretation in like, Kingdom Hearts? People can and will mock how Sephiroth looks.

But all the weird mother shit and life-seeding aliens and his profoundly personal fixation on the protagonist is workable, and he scores a Big Deal Kill on a party member which is always good for drama.

I can't think about anything he does as a villain that really stands above any other one. I'm pretty sure his design is the biggest part of why he's remembered.

>>54274920
>>54274973
What this guy said. Overused and turned to shit.

>>54275064
Ok? Thats also a pretty common villain element generally speaking.

>>54274920
He's just a generic Edgy McEdgerton villain with an oversized katana.

>>54274920
Things Sephiroth did well:
>unmatched warrior badass
>fucked up his old boss
>charismatic
>had a good side to him
>didn't directly participate in the story on a low level, you just followed his trail of carnage

Things Sephiroth did poorly:
>all the Jenova shit
>didn't have a very interesting reason for trying to blow up the world
>wasn't that great whenever he did directly participate in the story

Honestly, his whole existence is pretty much designed around building hype.

>>54274920
Mama's boy/10

>>54275022
They're both soldiers who got a dose of super mojo, it made them unable to connect with others in a regular manner.

Kefka jumped in with his eyes wide open if I'm remembering correctly but Sephiroth got the space juice while in the womb.

Basing a villain off of him how?

And I'm going to vote that he isn't a very good villain.
His motivation(s) is all over the place, his backstory isn't too impressive and his personality isn't really anything special (and is inconsistent between the original game and the later material).

I also really don't like his relationship to Cloud. It's hard to explain but I feel like the writers are under the impression that there's more between them then there actual is.
In fact, I'm pretty sure the final boss fight is the first time he and Cloud actually meet.

>>54275118
I thought the jenova shit was pretty good. Really cool and weird and creepy.

I really liked FF7's world in general.

>>54275082
I always liked how he was this guy Cloud initially looked up to in a hero-worship kind of way, but it was kind of on a personal level. Lots of people respected him, but Cloud saw him as his own personal childhood wish, except he failed to get anywhere even near Sephiroth's level.

>>54275134
That was the first time they met face to face, at least for Sephiroth to see Cloud's face as he was always sporting that helmet when Zack and Sephiroth were investigating the reactor.

>>54275127
See, the thing is though, their whole back story and reasons for things are pretty different though. Yes, in a general sense they both go batshit insane and want to destroy the world but thats kind of a shallow analysis. Also I thought kefka was like a jester or something. Its been a while.

>>54275044
This. Tactics had some great characters.

>>54275134
IIRC, the thing with the "Sephiroth clones" in the bulky robes throughout the later part of the game was a last-minute change to the story that threw a LOT of things out of whack. That alteration may be the origin of Sephiroth's inconsistencies.

Also
>the final boss fight is the first time he and Cloud actually meet.
Dude, even ignoring anything about Zach's memories and SOLDIER and all that stuff, you seem to be forgetting what is possibly one of the most iconic scenes in JRPG history.

>>54275143
Shinra and the Turks were great.

>>54275044
>Ff7 is just the one most pleb 90s kids played first.
What does it mean when FF8 was my first?

>>54275064
But in totally different ways. Kefka finds all life meaningless and as such should be destroyed because all things are going to break and die so he might as well just end it all. His core theme revolves are nihilistic philosophy. Sephiroth, on the other hand, mistakenly believed Jenova was one of the ancients and that the world was taken from "his people". He was going to wipe humanity from the planet because they were destroying it with industry and ruining nature and shit. That's why he wanted to become one with the life stream and "save" the planet. His philosophy is that of most eco-terrorist.

There are similarities but there core values and motivations are different and follow the themes of their respective games. FF6 being about the characters finding meaning in life and a reason to keep fighting, FF7 is about the relationship humanity has with the earth.

>>54275044
>>54274977
In the scope of final fantasy games in general, final fantasy 7 doesn't stop being good just because it's "overrated" by people.

Things can be good even if they are popular and you get nerd cred for being contrarian teenagers about it.

>>54274920
>Is Sephiroth actually a good villain?
Yes, for a couple of reasons, but mostly they involve his personal connections to the main character and his internal stuff rather than much of what he directly did. Sephiroth is a dark apex of Cloud's ideal self-image, powerful, confident, self-possessed. Cloud emulates the pre-villainous Sephiroth, the cool war hero who casually strides into town and takes over, and even villainous Sephiroth has a lot of the character traits Cloud seeks to emulate.

And it turns out the heroic image Sephiroth projects is a fabrication. Sephiroth is a crack pot barely holding it together, full of doubt, and when he discovers evidence about the doubt he'd had over his life, the man has a full blown mental break down that leads to murder and chaos.

Sephiroth is a classic fallen paladin, whose internal strength and ideals were built on a flimsy foundation that collapsed under mental weakness and 'divine' revelation. Self-image collapsing before reality, revealing a person's 'true' character - that's kind of the point of Cloud's journey in FF7 as well.

I don't really give a shit what happened in the spin-offs. The original game Sephiroth is a pretty interesting guy.

>>54274920
Was Sephiroth ever really a villain beyond going loco on Nibelheim?
Or was it Jenova making use of Sephiroth's form the entire time?

>>54275238
This. Comparing them is like saying The Joker and The Penguin are the same.

At some point you're just saying forks and knives are the same thing because they're made of metal. Maybe stop trying so hard to be cunts about everything.

>>54274920
Every FF villain goes from "iffy" to "good"

So go for it OP.

>>54275263
That question honestly sum up the best part about him for me.

>>54275238
Sephiroth isn't really a misguided, racist eco terrorist, he's basically a puppet of Jenova. That's just how the Jenova induced "Fuck everything, eat the planet" urges manifested.

>>54275263
Sephiroth was always a willing puppet to whoever the 'higher power' was. First it was Shinra, then it was Jenova. Sephiroth was a soldier looking for a worthy cause, because without a cause to fight for he was empty inside.

>>54275238
See I always got the impression Kefka was always kind of fucked in the head because of belief that everyhing is meanigless and it escalated. Sephiroth was once a good dude but he learned too much dark shit and thats what fcked him up. Even on that really simple level without much analysis the two are pretty different. But the idea that sephiroth was shit clone of kefka is such a prevailing one. Kefkas whole core motivation of nihilism totally contradicts sephiroth.

>>54275242
>I don't really give a shit what happened in the spin-offs. The original game Sephiroth is a pretty interesting guy.
The same can be said for Cloud. To this day, I have no fucking clue why SquEnix decided to re-characterize Cloud as a mopey emo fuckwit when literally the only time he's listless in the original game is when he's catatonic and stuck in a wheelchair.

Did the writers confuse Squall and Cloud?

/r/ing the side-by-side comparison of FFVII's Cloud and KH's/AC's/"modern" Cloud.

>>54275263
Jenova is The Thing so I don't think there's an appreciable difference between the two.

>>54275307
I don't know if Sephiroth was ever a good guy. Not directly a dick when he could help it, maybe, but he was still a Shinra super soldier, strongarming communities and oppressing anyone who stands up to them.

>>54275298
I mean I don't think its a coincidence that he returns from the fantasy Vietnam War and immediately finds another war to fight.

>>54275183
Been a while since I've played VI so I might confuse a shit load of lore but it seemed to me that Kefka was the only "decent" result the empire got injecting espers juice into a human, the empire wanted more super soldiers even though they had all this magitek shit already and they searched for more esper to turn into paste to inject into their subjects.

Kefka's mind was litteraly fucked as the espers inside him wanted out and made a mess of the place. Since whatever remained of the man wanted a moment of peace he taped into the latent power and leveled the world or something. Before just doing that he did all that shit like poisoning a whole city or declaring war, because he found it funny.

>>54275307
Sephiroth is a Lovecraft protagonist, specifically the guy from Shadow Over Innsmouth.

Kefka is a school shooter.

I still remember the scene in I think shinra HQ as youre trying to leave or climb up or something, and at some point you see jenova which was kinda fucked already, but then shit goes down and the music changes and you see the gore splatter and a trail of blood and carnage Sephiroth leaves behind as you continue. That was a real moment for me in games where I was legit freaked as a kid. FF7 had a lot of moments like that for me.

>>54275295
A lot of Sephiroth's "consume the planet just like mommy" was stuff added in advent children. In the original game (I've never played crisis core) his motives were most about obtaining the promised land, which to him was a planet without humans to fuck it up.

>>54275320
>I have no fucking clue why SquEnix decided to re-characterize Cloud as a mopey emo fuckwit when literally the only time he's listless in the original game is when he's catatonic and stuck in a wheelchair.
Fan interpretation memed itself into canon. People forgot that disc 1 Cloud's cold mercenary attitude was a front for a scared kid with huge and almost literal mental scars, and that his personal journey was about overcoming his insecurities about who he really is as a person, rather than what his anxiety and ego wishes he was.

>>54275373
His motives were, sure, but his actions were feeding Jenova. At best, it was a self-delusion induced by space AIDS.

>>54275342
>but it seemed to me that Kefka was the only "decent" result the empire got injecting espers juice into a human,
Celes was part of the same experiment.

Cloud was imo the most psychologically complex FF protagonist. It's a shame he got emo'ed in the spin off material.

>>54275263
Jenova is a mindless eating machine, because of Sephiroth's birth conditions he was basically a part of the Jenova hive mind but with more thoughts than just "hungry... Eat". Sephiroth was in control of all the Jenova pieces because he was the only part of the network, so to speak, that had an ego and higher level cognition.

>>54275393
Celeste was half Esperanto half human... the Empire was just using her as a weapon after they found her when the esters closed their world off.

>>54275320
Cloud was a country bumpkin who ran off to join the corporate super soldier program and washed out into a rank and file nobody. His rank and file nobody squad ended up assigned to a special mission which ended with Sephiroth destroying everything in sight. Shinra's resident crazy scientist took all the survivors and dosed the shit out of them with magic and Jenova bits, resulting in Cloud's mind being fucked in more ways than one. His bestest buddy saved his ass and dragged him to the city, where he fell in with a childhood friend and her eco-terrorist cell. Because this jogged memories of his promise to join the super soldiers, his personality at that point was a jumbled mess of what he thought a super soldier should act like and what his best friend acted like. Snarky and tryhard. When he actually gets most of his mind back, he becomes far less confident in himself, and pretty much only stays on because he is provably capable thanks to magic radiation poisoning giving him extra strength.
He spends too much time at the arcade and raises and races livestock as a hobby.

>>54275431
No, that was Terra

Celes was part of the same magic warrior program as Kefka

>>54275431
By the way. Fucking auto correct. Esper*

>>54275239
...

Is this going to devolve into defending Pathfinder's honor?

>>54275183
Sephiroth casts Meteor so it will hit the big fuck off hole in the northern continent and he plans to sit in the middle of that planetary wound be immersed in life force energy that the planet would use to heal itself
Absorbing all that power would make him unto a god and he wants to hang out with his alien mom

>>54275381
True, that's a fair point

>>54275203
>That alteration may be the origin of Sephiroth's inconsistencies.

I've looked into the development of FF7's story and it's crazy how much it changed over time (often suddenly and for no apparent reason).
Originally, it was going to take place in New York City in the near future and Sephiroth was basically Wesker from Resident Evil but Square changed it because they were afraid he was too similar to Kefka.
I also suspect someone in the staff was a big fan of Berserk and wanted to add some Griffith-ness to Sephiroth.

But more to the point: originally Sephiroth was only going to appear twice in the game: the flashback and the final boss. Jenovah was supposed to be the one doing all the villain work while she was tracking-down Sephiroth's corpse. She was also supposed to be the one who kills Aerith.

They switched Jenovah for Sephiroth (and his clones) at the last minute to the point where they didn't even have time to change some of the dialogue to account for the change.

>you seem to be forgetting what is possibly one of the most iconic scenes in JRPG history.
Are you talking about Aerith's death because that wasn't THE Sephiroth. And it's ambiguous as to whether that thing was controlled by Sephiroth, Jenovah or both.

>>54275453
Woops. Man its been too long since I played that game. The revamp can't get here soon enough.

>>54275453
This is correct, the only thing I would add is that kefka was the one who beta tested the program which is why he became so fucked up.

>>54275320
The Advent Children Cloud had some reason at least. Geostigma was a disease directly caused by him defeating Sephiroth, killed thousands and he too was infected by it. I see why he'd be depressed then. Otherwise, they have little reason for his depression.

I wish Jenova was my mom!

>>54275239
7 is okay. It's just not the best one. Not even top 5.

>>54275370
But that was Jenova, not Sephiroth. Every time you encounter Sephiroth in the game, it's the shapeshifting Jenova taking his form, except in the crater itself - and considering he fell with her head, and IIRC said head wasn't in the giant crystal he was encased in, it's quite likely even the endgame Sephiroth wasn't actually Sephiroth - or at least, not entirely him

>>54275499
>New York City

Somebody loved this idea and that's why we have Parasite Eve.

>>54275423
Cloud was an alright guy. His entire game was about him coming to grips that he's not the classic hero. He didn't become SOLDIER, he didn't get the girls, that was all Zack. Crisis Core actually did his characterization decently. Clould's character development was realizing all that & coming to grips with that.

>>54275575
Who would have thought massed exposure to lifestream infused Jenova cells would be so bad :^)

>>54275423
In hindsight, I'm still surprised that people don't complain so much about Cloud being a farcry of his FF7 self.

>>54275644
>he didn't get the girls
He got best girl

Barrett

>>54275657
A lot of gamers are more familiar with him from Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children than the original game itself.

>>54274920
If you make the villan nothing like him in apperance and don't use any obvious refrences to him it could work.

>>54275673
That sucks. Even his crisis core self was closer to his ff7 self.

>>54275658
With all the shit in the remake, I'm glad that Barret and the AVALANCHErs look badass. Wedge is exactly the sort of dumpy weirdo who deserves a grenade launcher.

>>54275657
He was a punk bitch in CC that was a failure at everything, and in AC, was in/directly responsible for a world wide plague.

>>54275603
Wasnt really about who actually did it. Just the atmosphere

>>54275618
They used the assets built instead of scrapping them, the main theme of Parasite Eve came from a book.

>>54274920
Overall, Sephiroth was more compelling just because of his relation with Cloud, Cloud's dreams & aspirations & not just himself. He's one of those villains who need connections with the hero to work.

>>54275657
I'm betting that's due to most people's first real experience with Cloud being one of the emo spinoffs. I personally came around too late to play FFVII when it was fresh, so the first Cloud I knew was the one in Kingdom Hearts that raided Vincent's wardrobe. It wasn't until much later that I found an old copy of FFVII for cheap, played it, and realized a) Cloud doesn't actually dress like a vampire and b) Cloud is actually not an emo.

Seriously, it's obvious that they wanted to use Vincent, why didn't they use Vincent? He's dark. He's broody. He's emo as FUCK. They fucking dressed Cloud LIKE Vincent, SO WHY NOT JUST USE VINCENT?

>>54275698
He kinda was a failure at everything. Didn't make a soldier, his family died, etc

>>54275729
>his family died
Man, that was not his fault.

>>54275726
This.
He wasn't emo, he was a tryhard who wanted to be the cool hero guy/protag.
I wager it came across a lot better in Japanese because there is a strong pop cultural element of the stoic swordsman ideal in manga.
>>54275729
Hey, he beat Sephiroth!
Twic-, no, THREE times! Zack couldn't do it once!
>and it's the only thing Cloud has ever accomplished

>>54275726
Vincent has a gun.

>>54275778
People seem to forget Cloud's subconsciousness where it's revealed that he was actually much closer to the bubbling sidekick than the main hero. The real hero Zack died & he's traumatized enough to believe he's Zack & with all the Jenova cells, he's practically already a SOLDIER too. It's like if Noct died mid-game, Prompto somehow inherited his powers & was mentally fucked enough to start thinking he was the Lucian prince,

>>54275832
And a claw.

Reminder that Gilgamesh will never get his own game where he travels the multiverse looking for weapons and Bartz.

>>54275925
>Reminder that Gilgamesh will never get his own game where he travels the multiverse looking for weapons and Bantz
Goddammit, I saw that first.

>>54275832
Yeah, but they ADDED a gun to Leon/Squall. The Gunblade doesn't gun; pulling the trigger sets the sword vibrating at stupidly-high frequencies to slice through shit. First scene he's in in KH has him "firing" out of it and pointing it at Sora. Yes, they are spells, not bullets, but the same can be done for Vincent's gun and have it "shoot" fireballs, icicles, etc.

Enough off-topic ranting, sorry.

>>54274920
He might be fun if done properly, but prepare for one player to catch on and roast you endlessly/start bitching about it.

>>54275966
If anyone catches, have a backup way to change the character.

>>54275837
who the fuck is noct lmao

>>54276042
FF15

>>54274920
Sephiroth might have been a good villian if that one piece of shit never voiced him and we got the voice actor of Johan Liebert from Monster to voice him, making him sound similar to his Kingdom hearts 1 fight voice actor who had the tone down but not the voice, but sounded good on the Playstation 2 due to sound quality in Kingdom Hearts 1and better to that of his "we couldn't afford the cunt who ruined Sephiroth for all time, including his I'm going to see mother quote, including the camerca angle scene."

He was supposed to sound more young and likable, before he lost his mind and went with a "holier than thou" attitude with his lifesteam Oedipus Jenova crap. Instead we got a villian who ammounted to "totally not going to be the bad guy, guize!" levels of saturday morning cartoon levels of cringe.

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Best boy is here

>>54276145
You are a memeloving cuck, learn Japanese and stop worrying about autistic shit like who voices them.

>>54275925
what about Weapons?

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If you run him the way he has been fetishized by the game's fanbae, then no, he'd make a horrible, angsty and utterly cliche villian.

HOWEVER:
If you'd use him like he was portrayed in the actual game, then he could make a rather decent villain.
When it comes down to it, Sephiroth was never the main villain of FF7. Jenova was.
Sephiroth was a corpse, reanimated and controlled by an eldritch intelligence on par with The Thing. A world eating parasite, traveling the universe on the corpses of the worlds it devoured. He really was only the main goon at best.

That reveal alone could make his eye rolling edginess worth it.

>>54275203
Weren't the "clones" not actual clones, but people who (like cloud) had jenova cells infuse in them?
I distinctively remember them seeking out the crater and sacrificing themselves to reunite jenova.

But then again, I didnt play the english version and I heard that there were some horrible mistranslations in the american localization

>>54275499
>They switched Jenovah for Sephiroth (and his clones) at the last minute to the point where they didn't even have time to change some of the dialogue to account for the change.

No they didn't. Up until at least the crater (where you see him encased in that big crystal) it's all Jenova all the time.

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>>54274920
As long as you want to make an overly cliched villain then sure - and there's nothing wrong with it as long as it's purposeful, see pic related.

If you want to make it serious, at this point Sephiroth's so played out that it would be hard to make him a good base for a character without selectively ignoring parts of 7's bloated universe

>>54276747
I wanna fug jenova

>>54276919
you know what's a bloated universe? Real life. We take inspiration from it all the time

>>54276956
You got me wrong, I really love it, but after playing/watching through more than half of it's installments, it's really hard to take it absolutely serious

>>54274920
Any FF villian once the Playstation Age started is an instant no.

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>>54274920
He's super meh. You need a villain that's more awesome, like mother fucking GARLAND.
>Up and said fuck it one day and kidnapped a Princess, because he could
>Gets beaten by a group of heroes, but doesn't die
>Uses the power of four demons to travel back in time
>Uses left over power to create said Four Demons, and empower them to and his now future self to the past to become him
>Smashes enough stuff to become embodiment of Chaos, also becoming immortal
>Wields shapeshifting weapon to knock everyone down
>His initial purpose was just to kidnap a princess, which then turned to revenge, and eventually his inevitable godhood
>Beats the shit out of Lightning a bit later on for shits n giggles

>>54275657
Because a ton of the people that "love FF7" these days haven't even played it.

>>54277776
I admit that I prefer 6.

>>54277776
I don't have to play it to like a game.

Fuck you. Cloud is love. He is my main character is Smash Brothers.

>>54277516
Sin is fucking awesome.

>>54278236
this, FFX's big problem was the fact fucking Teedus was a walking maymay and yuna was bland waifubait.

>>54278344
>yuna the waifubait
And then there was Lulu the BDSM slut

>>54276836
Bruh, he means when writing it. At the last minute--right before they went ahead with everything--the writers changed their minds and did a quick CTRL+F replace, swapping Jenova's role with Sephiroth's.

That's pretty obvious based on the rest of his post.

>implying the best Final Fantasy villain isn't Marche Radiuju

>>54274920
If you're 14 and listen to Linkin Park, then yes he is.

>>54275118
>had a good side to him
I beg your pardon?

>>54275230
That you got a poorly translated, functionally broken JRPG love story about child soldiers.

I fucking love FFVIII.

>>54278643
Probably a poor choice of words on the anon's part. He was up until the whole Nibelheim fiasco (thanks to Crisis Core) a soldier who had no peers and would be sent out on dangerous missions in the hopes of finding someone that he could relate to. To me, I'd call that True Neutral; he views himself as a force of nature given sentience, for good or ill.

It's only after Nibelheim happens that Sephiroth goes evil, mistakenly thinking that all his power came from his mother, Jenovah, a person that had their lineage stolen from them because of "human beings" killing off their entire bloodline, and not because Hojo went full on mad scientist and experimented on him as a baby.

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mfw /tg/ has better threads about final fantasy than /vg/

>>54277657
Garland is a time paradox, not a badass. He only became Chaos because Chaos needed to have become chaos in the past to exist.

>>54278474
Marche wasn't wrong.

Also, for those curious about Kefka's backstory.

He was originally a court jester in the Empire, and an individual who was often ridiculed and made fun of at his expense. He then saw an opportunity to make a name for himself and let the Empire use him as one of the first human experiments for splicing Esper powers into a human form.

The process sort of worked; he gained magical power, but his psyche completely fractured and his fragmented mind pieced it back into a nihilistic philosophy, and began to set out orchestrating events so that he could get even more power from the Espers (and eventually) the Gods of Magic.

Celes was a later experiment, and their greatest success; she was able to harness the Esper powers to their fullest up to that point in time, and was one of the Empire's most liked/respected/feared generals, other than Leo, who was their #1.

And then they got ahold of Terra, and spent a good 10-15 years brainwashing her and training her into being a literal killing machine.

>>54278757
He seemed nice enough before his 'revelation' in the flash back.

>>54274920
Master Xehanort was a better villain.

>>54274977
Just dropping by to say I appreciate the Futurama reference

>>54278763
Why would you expect /ffg/ to want to do long detailed talks about FF, if you're in the general this shouldn't be the first time you've dipped in FF.

This attitude always bugged me as much as people asking why boards don't talk about their masterpieces. Well duh why are you on the board if you haven't already seen them and discussed and debated them. It's like when Killing Joke was re-released and /co/ had a story time for it at least once a week for nearly 6 months. It's a good story but holy shit stop thinking that there's more than a handful who haven't read it more than once.

>>54278923
Why was? He isn't dead yet.

Also why do you think OP cares about him? He is asking about Sephiroth.

>>54278763
You don't need any other boards other than /tg/.

>>54279027
Well his VA's are both dead so he'll probably be replaced by some middle aged version of himself.

>>54279216
No, he won't. Don't be retarded.

>>54274973
CC had a lot of stupid shit but Sephiroth himself was fine. We simply got to see more of him being an stand-up guy before he went the deep end.

>>54278374
>Lulu the BDSM slut
You take that back, you cunt.
Lulu was not into being tied up, she just dressed like a neo-goth.

SALSA DIP
MAC AND CHEESE
MONKEY NUTS
CELEBI
SEPHIROTH

>>54278757
>yfw you realize Sephiroth was the quintessential iconic Japanese swordsman, stoic and collected, invincible in battle, tall, fine featured, and how all of the defining elements of the classic hero were warped into an unstoppable evil force was what made him so popular in Japan

>>54278725
Same. Only Final Fantasy game I've played

>>54275263
I'd like to imagine at the end Sephiroth>Jenova since if I was a giant alien space motherfucker controlling a pseudo-god and enemies were at the doorstop I think I'd put the pseudo-god in to protect me.

>>54275009
>A generic demon lord
>more original than a super soldier made from the dna of John Carpenter's The Thing

Despite Sephiroth's popularity very few things have actually ever done things similar to his character.

>>54278344
Yuna spent years of her life preparing to give her life to save the world, and Tidus willingly went into the final battle with the knowledge that success meant he had to die. It's so frustrating that their characters are so looked down on.

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>>54276161
Well, helloooooooooooooo there

Just use him as a template and make something awesome

>>54281514
According to the creator, that is exactly what happened.
Jenova is/was intelligent and semi-cognizent, but ultimately the only thing it did was kill native life and spread itself like disease, and it didn't really have goals or objectives. It just did what was in it's nature.
Sephiroth on the other hand actual willpower along with desires of his own, and he effectively psychically co-opted Jenova's body (which is what you spend the entire game chasing around thinking it's him) from his materia prison at North Creator.

>>54278757
>and not because Hojo went full on mad scientist and experimented on him as a baby
He honestly seemed totally dismissive of Hojo in general, like he thought so little of him that he didn't even bother to actively hate him or anything.

>>54282571
What the fuck was Jenova's whole deal anyway? What did it even want?

Never got the circlejerk around Sephiroth

The main cast was a lot more interesting and fun and to me it was the main draw of the game

>>54282613
You ever play Chrono Trigger?
Jenova is Lavos, except more by way of The Thing with it's weird mutate-y infectious virus shit and not a giant spiky angry apocalypse crab from space.

Whatever they wanted, assuming they actually "wanted" things the way a human being does, it's too alien and strange for us to really grasp. It's possible that how Jenova acted (landing on a planet and then beginning to exterminate or infect life with itself) was pretty much just it going through it's basic biological life processes and nothing else.

>>54282630
It's mostly the age people played the game and how good the buildup was for him; you got to see lots of what he could do before you got to him in ways that didn't involve him just beating up the newest arbitrarily strong guy to show up much stronger he was.
You even got to have him in your party to see by just how much he outclassed you without him being a bad guy in the flashback.

>>54282613
The way I saw it was Jenova was being Jenova
Asking what her whole deal was is a bit like asking why a dog acts like a dog or a fa/tg/uy posts in /tg/. It is a part of their being and behaving the way that comes naturally to them

>>54275307
>Kefka was always kind of fucked in the head
"kinda"!?

Kefka is straight up a fantasy take on the modern batman joker. He's nihilistic and deeply insane, but also intelligent enough to be really dangerous. He's scary in the manner of all true psychopaths - specifically because his motivations don't make any damn sense to normal people. He can't be reasoned with.

Sephiroth's a different mould. He is rational. You can understand and sympathize with him, even though his moral compass has become twisted and misguided. He bears more resemblance to something like the Agent character from Serenity - a courageous man, committed to his ideals, which just happen to be wrong.

"Whaa whaa I wants me mummy"

>>54282724
Pretty much. Note that Jenova really doesn't even have any actual lines in-game.
That's another way it's like Lagos; big weird space alien that ultimately is the primary source of most of the game's problems but it's not really conversant with the heroes, assuming it even CAN have conversations with people.

>>54275320
>Did the writers confuse Squall and Cloud?
They are almost synonyms. Could be a translation error.

>>54282762
>He's nihilistic and deeply insane, but also intelligent enough to be really dangerous
And don't forget that wicked sense of humour

>>54282764
I can see how one might make that connection and be troubled by it, if one were extremely insecure about one's own maturity.

>>54282613
It wants to go to a planet, really dig in, fight off the planet's defenses (e.g. Emerald/Ruby Weapons and such) and suck the lifestream right out of it.
Slurp slurp, then, WOOSH, off to another planet.

That's what it wants.

>>54282762
>Sephiroth's a different mould. He is rational. You can understand and sympathize with him, even though his moral compass has become twisted and misguided. He bears more resemblance to something like the Agent character from Serenity - a courageous man, committed to his ideals, which just happen to be wrong.

Yeah....no. Not at all.
Initially his descent into crazy came from reading Professor Gast and Hojo's notes on Jenova and his own creation, except that these notes are filled with misleading information that is later proven to be slightly inaccurate or even completely incorrect. This information drives him insane, though his curiously neutral personal suggets that maybe his self-identity was already pretty frail to begin with.
After Cloud miraculously manages to kill him in the Nibelheim reactor (though not without nearly getting himself killed in the process) he gets dumped directly into the Lifestream...except his consciousness doesn't discorporate into collective souls of the Lifestream because he's fundamentally not from this planet on a cellular level, which as we see happens to Cloud when he is dumped into it physically without dying first drives a person insane, which of course makes him even crazier.
As he hibernates and restores his body in North Crater he uses his unique access to the collective souls and knowledge in the Lifestream to figure out the actual truth of Jenova and the Cetra.
At this point he just decides fuck it, he'll enact his long-term plan to become a God. Exactly WHY he does this deranged leap of logic after learning the truth about what he was is never explained.

Basically, Sephiroth is just as bugfuck crazy as Kefka (exact same objectives even) he just expresses it in a completely different manner:

>>54282857
So exactly Lavos then.
Just a bit more insidious about it then literally exploding out of the Earth and blowing everything up.

>>54282866
>drives him insane
If by "drives him insane" you mean, "convinces him that he does not belong with humans, and that his needs and wants don't need to align with them in the slightest - confirming what he had felt his entire life" then sure.

>>54282876
She's just an extremely powerful space parasite/predator. Most of the real horror happens as a result of doing horribly unethical experiments based mostly on mucking about with her genetic code, and various characters getting her mixed up with legends about an ancient master race and their promised land.

>>54282894
This. Sephiroth made the rational decision, upon reading the Hojo files, that he has been used and does not belong with anyone else on the planet. Before he "went insane", he was almost an automaton, doing things because he was ordered to, but always having a feeling he didn't belong.

>>54282894
The thing is; he CLEARLY had a choice there. He felt different from everyone, but he wasn't lacking in free will or anything. He just kind of wanted some acceptance, to find someone to relate to.
Once he discovers his origins (his incorrect origins no less) his first response is to murder a village for something they didn't do for a reason that actually didn't even happen in the first place.
His prior personality seems to be some kind of guy who's desperately looking for some kind of purpose in his life; no friends, no family, raised in a lab, and his only potential father figure Gast leaving when he was a child.

>>54282960
Just don't forget that he genuinely IS part planetary space parasite. He might simply not feel empathy or love toward humans, the way a human would.
His personality before the revelation seems to paint him as someone who hasn't found meaning in life.
Imagine the existential terror of realizing that the reason why is, in some part, actually due to being an entirely different creature from everyone around him - confirming what he always knew.

Hell, for all we know, he might have "kill the planet and everyone on it" impulses as a fundamental part of his psychology, that he's had to manage up until that point.

He's not fully human; that has to have some kind of consequence for how he thinks.

>>54282775
>assuming it even CAN have conversations with people.
Didn't it tricked the ancient Cetras or something? I supposed it require some form of communication.

>>54282960
>his only potential father figure Gast
Come on, who wouldn't want to have Hojo as a dad?

>>54282960
Also, no one ever just "snaps" the way he did, there's always a long buildup where they're thinking about it and rationalizing it and becoming more and more comfortable with the idea. I'm willing to bet he had fantasies about carving his way through a whole town because, really, who the fuck would be able to stop him? I'm also willing to bet it was a pretty regular thing.

What I'm saying is that if SOLDIER had counselors the plot of FF7 wouldn't have happened.

>>54283021
I actually think that you're supposed to draw contrasts with Aerith.
Both are valued by SHINRA for the same reasons, except Aerith is a genuine Cetra and Sephiroth was not.
Both have a unique relationship with Gast Faramis, with Gast clearly having meant something to Sephiroth (he literally bemoans Gast's leaving him as he researches his incorrect origins), while Aerith is actually Gast's biological child.
Aerith ALSO actively feels different from everyone around her and frequently says so while being driven by impulses she only half understands much like Sephiroth seemed to be.

I think it's supposed to be a nature vs nurture thing; yes Sephiroth is effectively the child of something that ends worlds, but you can see how he was effectively berefit of purpose (after he wasn't a Cetra SHINRA cared considerably less about him and he joined SOLDIER largely out of having no other purpose) and real human connection his entire life and how this left him with no real sense of identity or self to develop anything like a stable psychological profile.
Aerith was raised despite her outsider status in a loving and supportive home that helped her develop into a decent, stable person, albeit one who still feels sort of detached from regular folks.
Now, Aerith obviously couldn't have become the threat Sephiroth was (or at least if she did it probably wouldn't work out as well) because she had different abilities, but the more they show about Sephiroth's backstory the more he seems sort of pathetic and sad, like if maybe even ONE person bothered to befriend him as an individual instead of treating him as a test subject or living weapon or distant war hero, maybe he would have turned out less crazy.

>>54283117
> "So, tell me more about your mother..."

>>54274973
You know he is in the same game as Kefka but only in a cameo and his character/motivations are completely different. The only thing they have in common is appearing in the same franchise.

>>54283041
I think that was it Thinging it up.

>>54283136
>maybe even ONE person bothered to befriend him as an individual instead of
I think this is right on the money. It's also a common theme in Japanese media, but it seems very apparent in FF7 to me.

On the other hand, with the whole comparing Aerith with Seph stuff, I think you're on a wild goose chase.

>>54283041
That's what Ifalna said it did, changing it's shape to disguise itself as their loved ones so it could get close, but she doesn't elaborate if it actively did this or if it was just a camoflauge it held only long enough to get close.
>>54283117
Yeah, the prequel stuff shows that it had been building for awhile actually.
He outright tells Zack that after the Nibleheim mission he was going to leave SOLDIER because he realized he wasn't really getting what he wanted out of joining it.
His increasingly morose attitude and tendency to brush off inquiries into how he felt seemed suggestive off an onset of depression, which when coupled with the shock of his discovery could possibly lead to anger or rage.

>>54283136
Though, he may have felt different from everyone but he wasn't the only one with Jenova cells.

Also, I could see an evil Aerith trying to save the planet from mankind. Maybe something about bringing back cetras from humans by lifestream flood or whatever.

>>54283178
Considering that Jenova's transformations were admitted by Nomura to he partially inspired by the Thing (look at what happens to Hojo when he snorts Jenova Cocaine), that's probably right.
>>54283191
The comparison isn't in the similarities, but how they contrast with each other.
Remember, the entire thing starts with Jenova (which Seph is sort of a low-key clone of in some ways) killing the Cetra two thousand years ago, and he finally finishes the job with Aerith midway through the game himself.
And though Cloud and co kills Sephiroth after he achieves deific power and then Cloud kills him AGAIN in his mind (probably literally killing the psychic control that the Jenova cells give Seph over him), it's actually Aerith that saves the world by directing the Lifestream to stop the meteor from falling.

The contrast between them is important because to some degree the entire thing is just a continuation of that same conflict from ages ago.

>>54275644
The big thing people tend to forget though was it wasn't that cloud couldn't do what Zack did. He passed all his exams for the elites.

His psychological exam though showed him to be far too unstable for the position so he got stuck doing shitty grunt work. So he kind of fucked himself over one.

>>54283250
>Though, he may have felt different from everyone but he wasn't the only one with Jenova cells.
Technically speaking, damn near everyone in SOLDIER had them.
>Also, I could see an evil Aerith trying to save the planet from mankind. Maybe something about bringing back cetras from humans by lifestream flood or whatever.
Evil Humans genociding the human race for environmental reasons is about the third most common JRPG villain motivation honestly, after "Poorly Thought-Out Social Darwinism" and "I'm Fucking Evil What Do You Want From Me?"

>>54283269
>too unstable
>Genesis was okay
>Cloud wasn't
Fucking Shinra.

>>54283117
He spent weeks inside the library learning what he was. The build up was there, but it was implicit.

>>54282960
>his first response is to murder a village for something they didn't do for a reason that actually didn't even happen in the first place.
You are still judging him as a human, he isn't one. Everyone in the village was nothing more than flies to him.

He didn't think "Oh, now I'm gonna commit murder (human on human)", he thought "This planet is filled with vermin" and went on a rampage.

>>54287875
>"This planet is filled with vermin" and went on a rampage.
He was literally one of them then.
What he is shouldn't be. At all.

>>54282613
Jenova was John Carpenter's the Thing. It was a shapeshifting monster that almost destroyed the planet. A major thing people seem to forget was that Jenova was already dead by the time of FF7. Whatever intelligence it may have had was gone. Shinra found it's corpse and used it's cells, which had miracle properties. Some of these properties let Sephiroth influence weak willed people through those same cells that had gotten into their body.

Pretty much Sephiroth became Jenova 2.0, he had actual intelligence to guide his action.

>>54274920
>Is Sephiroth actually a good villain?
No, but Jenova is.

>>54283250
Everybody else was infused with them. He was the only one infused with them in the womb.

>>54282613
>>54282635
>>54282724
>>54282857
>>54282876
>>54282933
>>54289422
>>54289463
Jenova is a near-mindless virus and has no higher thought whatsoever. Never did at any point. The Ultimania guides make this very clear.
It has automatic responses and those responses can be devious as fuck (particularly the brain scan followed by shapeshifting into something that the target deems a friendly, a wholly autonomous process) but Jenova beings are not capable of sapient thought. They are only driven to infect non-Jenova beings with Jenova, and Reunite into a superior Jenova amalgam when no infectable life forms remain.

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>>54275263
Lets take a look at the evolution of Sephiroth's motivations:

Sephiroth is a super soldier working for Shinra. He reads up on his history and thinks he's a Cetra. Then he has a massive psychotic break, grabs Jenova and wants to go to the Promised Land. He falls into a river of liquid Mako and immediately upon reappearing, wants to summon a meteor and fuse with the planet. So what prompted the transition between thinking he's an Ancient and wholesale adopting the alien Jenova's initial goal of fusing with the planet?

Well, there's one other example of what happens when you dump a mentally unstable person into the lifestream: It practically wiped Cloud's mind and personality. So when Sephiroth goes crazy and takes a mind shattering dip, then comes back and seems like a different person it is because he is. Q.E.D.

And I don't give a fuck what the spinoffs say.

>>54289657
>Jenova is a near-mindless virus and has no higher thought whatsoever.
Except we know that it wanted to do exactly what Sephiroth wanted to do after he fell into the lifestream.

>>54289722
Sephiroth wanted to devour the entire Lifestream and remake the world as the new god. Jenova wants to make more Jenova because viruses don't think, only proliferate.

>>54289781
Which, again, was Jenova's goal. That's why the planet produced the WEAPONs to stop Jenova from doing exactly that. Jenova's continued existence is why the planet couldn't fully heal itself from the initial wound it received at the northern crater. All this started long, long before Sephiroth ever existed and he suddenly chose to pick up right where it all left off. If you're saying Jenova is mindless, so is Sephiroth who only follows the path laid out by Jenova.

I can give you quotes straight from the original version of the game to back up everything I've said.

"Viruses can't think planets can't think"? That doesn't matter because I'm talking about shit that happened. This is not a theory to be argued, it's information.

I don't know what bullshit side source you're following, but it'll never beat what's actually in game. Now if you can pinpoint in game where Sephiroth came up with the idea to fuse with the planet all on his own, maybe you might have a point.

>>54289781
But that would require draining the life stream anyways, since the life stream can spontaneously spawn life at will. Jenova would just be doing it indirectly through it's physical manifestations of living creatures instead of going for the source like Sephiroth did.

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>>54289885
>Which, again, was Jenova's goal.
It ain't. Jenova don't know what a Lifestream is.
> That's why the planet produced the WEAPONs to stop Jenova from doing exactly that.
Weapons were made in the event of any Jenova-like calamity occurring in the future.
>Jenova's continued existence is why the planet couldn't fully heal itself from the initial wound it received at the northern crater.
Now that's pure fanon. It's just that huge wounds take a lot of time to heal, thousands or millions of years. It's not a fast process at all.
>I can give you quotes straight from the original version of the game to back up everything I've said.
Please do.
>I don't know what bullshit side source you're following,
The distinctly canon Ultimania Omega guide. In particular, it is the second paragraph on this page.
"Vicious, extremely aggressive and cunning. Having no thoughts of creating
anything following bringing destruction, it only follows its instincts to
incite ruin, utilizing its mimic ability (-->P.211) to infect other living
organisms with its virus. In addition, due to its abnormal resilence, even if
dismembered, its cells will call out to one another, seeking to reunite into
their original form (-->Reunion/P.211)."
>but it'll never beat what's actually in game. Now if you can pinpoint in game where Sephiroth came up with the idea to fuse with the planet all on his own, maybe you might have a point.
Sure, the man himself says so after the Temple of the Ancients is converted back into the Black Materia.
>Sephiroth: "I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients. I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the extinction of the Ancients. And soon, I will create the future."
He made the idea up himself because he thinks the world is inadequate.

I always find it odd that in a story that so heavily relies on the idea that an alien's cells are mind controlling people, including the main character you play as, that fans are so put off by the idea that the guy injected with said alien cells as a fucking UNBORN FETUS might also be a puppet of said cells.

>>54289904
Jenova would just brute-force consume the biosphere until everything is infected. Most likely, that would trigger Omega Weapon to bail on the planet at the end. Sephiroth's method is wholly different, and involves devouring all the blood of the planet itself. Jenova can't possibly process such an idea.

>>54275644
>didn't get the girl
one great bit of his development was that, when he found out everyone he been watching him and Tifa under the highwind, he just shrugged.
Alpha as fuck and a great call back to how he's changed, yet still remained his old self

>>54289967
>It ain't. Jenova don't know what a Lifestream is.
And that's why it wounded the planet and tried to parasitize it in the first place. Sure, okay.
>Weapons were made in the event of any Jenova-like calamity occurring in the future.
Completely wrong. This is directly from Final Fantasy VII:

IFALNA: "The one the Professor mistook for a Cetra... was named Jenova. That is the 'crisis from the sky'. The Planet knew it had to destry the 'crisis from the sky'... You see, as long as Jenova exists, the Planet will never be able to fully heal itself."
GAST: "Back then, Weapon was a weapon the Planet produced of its own will?"
IFALNA: "Yes, but... There is no record of Weapon ever being used. A small number of the surviving Cetra defeated Jenova, and confined it. The Planet produced Weapon... But it was no longer necessary to use it."
GAST: "So, Weapon no longer exists on the Planet?"
IFALNA: "Weapon cannot vanish. It remains asleep somewhere on the Planet. Even though Jenova is confined, it could come back to life at some time. The Planet has not fully healed itself yet. It is still watching Jenova."

>Now that's pure fanon.
Haha.

>Please do.
Sure!!

>>54290007
>Jenova would just brute-force consume the biosphere until everything is infected. Most likely, that would trigger Omega Weapon to bail on the planet at the end. Sephiroth's method is wholly different, and involves devouring all the blood of the planet itself. Jenova can't possibly process such an idea.
Which totally explains why it was discovered at the Northern Crater, a massive point of impact where the lifestream gathered. Maybe Sephiroth was telling it what to do with time traveling ESP!!!

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>>54290145
>And that's why it wounded the planet and tried to parasitize it in the first place. Sure, okay.
It wounded the planet when it slammed into it on a huge fuck-off space rock. It never tried to parasitize the planet itself, only the creatures living upon it.
>Completely wrong. This is directly from Final Fantasy VII:
Okay, I was wrong on that point: Jenova does slow down the planet's healing just by being there. The Ultimania guide does corroborate this (calls Jenova "an impediment" to the planet). Weapons were indeed initially made to remove Jenova, but Jenova was already sealed by that point.
Point conceded, but ultimately irrelevant to Jenova's sentience and Sephiroth's goals.

>>54290007
It wouldn't need to process the idea. It doesn't process any ideas. It just does.

This is probably just theory, but it's a theory following the logic of the universe we're presented with. Space virus goes around consuming all life on a planet. Planets in this universe have a spirit that fuels the life on a planet. This spirit has the capacity to leave the planet and travel through space. The space virus does not show this capacity.

What we can take from this is that somehow Jenova can travel through space, and that the most likely explination of how is that it eventually consumes the planets life stream (either physically kill all life or potentially having the capacity to pull sephiroths "drain the life stream through a wound" strategy), and then hijacks it's Omega weapon protocol.

Like I said, just a theory, but it's following the logic that we've been shown.

>>54290198
>Which totally explains why it was discovered at the Northern Crater, a massive point of impact where the lifestream gathered
... it landed in the Northern Crater because Jenova is an extraterrestrial that came to the planet on an asteroid. It was at the Northern Crater because it does not have the ability to teleport. The Northern Crater was its landing zone.

>>54275597
6>4>9>7>5>12>10>3>15>8>2>1>13
Not counting spin-offs or MMOs

>>54290222
What does this says? I have the "learn Japanese" app on my phone but I have never actually clicked it.

>>54290335
To copy paste from a translation

***The WEAPONs*** (Page 215) (005.4)
The WEAPONs, created by the Planet itself, exist for the sake of acting as a
self-defense mechanism [for the Planet]. Once, when the Planet had been
injured after Jenova collided with it, Jenova became an impediment [to the
Planet healing], and the Planet manufactured the WEAPONs to remove the
creature by force.

However, because the survivors of the Cetra succeeded in sealing Jenova away,
the Planet mixed the WEAPONs with the natural mako within the Northern Crater
and put them to sleep for a long time; until they -- perceiving the crisis to
the Planet -- awakened simultaneously with Sephiroth calling Meteor. Regarding
everything as a threat to the Planet, humans and civilizations became targets
of the WEAPONs' destruction, though they faced opposition in Cloud and his
friends.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
Within the Northern Crater, where the Lifestream swells, the WEAPONs were put
to sleep. Their faces are visible within the enormous mako which formed within
the crater.

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This handsome bastard pops into your current game and steals your players' best weapons. What do?

>>54290375
Kick his ass. Again.

>>54290375
>all those shitty weapons
I grab my spear and beat him.

polearms > not polearms

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>>54290445
He can use polearms

>>54290445
>Gilgamesh
He's got a halberd.

>>54290485
>the spear is in the back
I can still beat him if he doesn't turn around

>>54290528
His arms are functional you know. He can swing it forward.

>>54290546
He has another arm in the front shoulder, he can't swing the two arms in his back, he can barely move those. Look at them, he can move it forward but the distance it covers is minimal because they have to bend in order to cover the front.

A regular guy with a spear can beat him, and a party of 4 guys with spears would destroy him.

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>>54290598
You know he clearly has a bow and a gun in that image. Even those who worship reach in combat would bow to those.
In fact in XIII-2 he has a little fun with machine guns and rocket launchers, but ultimately decides it's not as fun as using legendary swords.

>>54290639
>You know he clearly has a bow and a gun in that image.
Yeah but that's a woman's weapon. You think we can use diplomacy on him to make him drop them?

>>54290672
Cringe

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>>54275320
>Squall
>emo fuckwit

Squall was one of the most masculine people in the FF series. He's rarely emotional, he's logical, he's philosophical about everything, he protects everyone he can through violent means but has no understanding of how to comfort people otherwise, he's buff, he's fearless even in the face of death. Squall was surrounded by emo fuckwits.

>>54291375
>that hair style
Very masculine, is he going to sparkle next?

>>54291375
The man is a dick to many people but considering who he's hanging around, they deserve it.

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>>54274920
depends if you can get your players to take him seriously

>>54275423
Imo, Squall was the most complex. Purely because of some of his development and the reasons for his personality. Most of the hate he gets is because of the weird personality the translators gave him.

They made him this really unlikable brooding teenager (which is at least realistic giving that they are all basically child soldiers). His catchphrase in the translations is to dismissively say "whatever". Whereas in the original it's to say "sorry", because he just can't understand what other people are going through.

>>54275726
At the very least, they made him less retarded in 2.

>>54275597
>implying that there are even more than 3 good FF games.
6,7, and tactics.

Cunts keep disrespecting FF9

>>54292879
a top 5 list doesn't imply that there are at least 5 good titles, just that those 5 happen to be the best of the bunch.

>>54283169
Kek

>>54275618

yeah and it was awesome

you can basically make a 40k Bolter

>>54292917
Fair enough

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>>54274920
Superior villain coming through

>>54278923
wich Xehanort? the old man? i ensure you that Kingdom hearts 3 will reveal us that Master Xehanort was possesed/reincarnation of the true villiain all along, and it will not surprise anybody.

>>54293422
>wich Xehanort?
They are all the same.
>will reveal us that Master Xehanort was possesed/reincarnation of the true villiain all along
It was already revealed in the browser/mobile game
>and it will not surprise anybody.
Of course not, the fans already know.

>>54275044
I still feel like he is too detached from the story, he feels like a secondary antagonist when compared to the confrontations between AVALANCHE ( your team of not-terrorists ) and Shinra. The guys from Shinra are present throughout the entire story and are related to all the main characters. Sephiroth isn't present at all, he is just a boss that you confront every now and then, with most of his backstory being explained through flashbacks.

To me, they could've scrapped Cloud's and Sephiroth's backstory and made Sephiroth a playable character in the beginning of the game.
Have Sephiroth be a nice guy who is like an older brother to Cloud and is recruiting him into AVALANCHE. Then he invades the Shinra building with the rest of your team at the end of disc one, learns about the Jenova project and his origins, go insane and becomes a main antagonist that the player can feel emotionally attached to.

>>54294195
Meant to quote:
>>54275077

>>54294195
Removing the backstory would ruin some things. Cloud's experience with Zack, his reasons for pretending to be a SOLDIER & more.

>>54295026
Zack is far from being an important character in the main game and only exists to make Cloud's backstory more convoluted because Squaresoft was experimenting with 2deep4u plots in the VII and VIII games.

>>54274920
As far as his story, pathos, and goals, no. He's a standard JRPG villain whose only real motivators are emoness and irrational rage, and ultimately, he has no plan other than kill everything because of reasons.

But he is built up well in the game. They do a good job of making him seem dangerous and intimidating. Unfortunately, the final boss fight undercuts that. He was one of the weakest FF bosses, which was a big letdown. I think I two shot him when I played. Even Kefka put up more of a fight.

>>54295469
don't care, Zack was the best part of the game.

>>54295620
Zack is the best part of the whole FFVII universe and Crisis Core is the best game

>>54295826
Zack is the hipster's choice promoted by people that think FF7 was 'overrated'. And Crisis Core was shit.

File: ff11-beastmaster.jpg (98KB, 600x700px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 600x700px

We talking about FF in here?

Because we should talk about XIV some.

God damn the world is so good, and the magic system is incredible.

Almost makes me forget that XI has BST and how much I miss it.

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>>54295882
>XIV
>magic system

???????????????

>>54296240
Not in the sense of the a game system, but the underlying rules and way that magic works within the setting.

>>54295841
This.
Zack in game was just a brave guy that got his ass kicked by Sephiroth and later sacrificed himself to save Cloud.
Cloud was the one that consistently put Sehiroth on the ass end of ass kicking, and part of his arc is him learning to become his own man rather than aping Zack

>>54296573
Go on...