Where on MTG's color-wheel do each of the 40k factions

I figure AdMech is Red/Blue.

>>54221420
No way should Khorne shit be white. White is the color of law and order, the opposite of chaos. Nothing chaos should be white at all. Khorne should probably just be mono-red, or if anything else red/black.

>>54222922
Blood Pact troopers especially, and Traitor Guardsmen in general stay regimented, disciplined and coordinated in battle, if only by comparison to the rest of the regular cultists and other cannon fodder.

Discipline and order may be boring and fly in the face of Chaos's ideals, but it sure as shit works in battle.

>>54221420
This custom card upsets me.

A lot.

I just want you to know that.

>>54222922
Probably a "le honorable khorne meme :D" shitter.

>>54222922
>>54223030
>>54223045
ITT we ignore other interpretations of Chaos beyond the retarded monolithic one-note concepts we've been seeing, when all the best material for 40k regularly insists they can work in ways besides the stereotypes.

Anyways, I put forth that Guardsmen are multicolor White with another color dependent on their regiment.

>>54221420
>Nurgle's B/G as hell, with lots of smallpox and creature-sacrifice stuff.
>Tzeentch is Blue. Hardcore, counterspell-jank, polymorphist, control blue.
>Khorne is red, with high aggro and lots of Furnace of Rath style damage multiplication. Also LOTS of Traitorous Blood steal effects.
>Slaanesh is probably black, maybe black red in that kind of indulgent vampire aesthetic. I can see Slaanesh running black taxes, and Lucius is as black mana as you can get.

>>54221898
Actually, Blue White befits them way more; They are a ancient and stagnant order, dedicated to technology.

>>54223123
>ITT we ignore other interpretations of Chaos beyond the retarded monolithic one-note concepts we've been seeing, when all the best material for 40k regularly insists they can work in ways besides the stereotypes.
We are talking about the MtG color pie here, and in the MtG color pie, white is the color of law and order, and red is the color of chaos.

>>54223030
Other than the mana symbol, there is nothing wrong with it at all

>>54223238
>Other than the mana symbol, there is nothing wrong with it at all
Except it being MtG.

>>54223230
I could see Admech being Red/Blue or Red/Blue/White actually, considering Red's existing synergy with artifacts as a concept.

I'd say the Imperium is generally white (As horrible a place as it is, it's due to cruel law more than ambition and self interest) with various groups spinning off from it colour-wise.

Imperial Guard: White/Black (Sacrifice and death)
Sisters of Battle: White/Green (Spiritualism, Tradition and connection)
Space Marines: Variable by chapter but White/Red as a whole. (Independence, Passion)
Adeptus Mechanicus: White/Blue (Knowledge, perfection)

Chaos is generally Black due to it's focus on ambition and power.

Khorne: Black/Red (Emotion, Impulsive, Destructive)
Tzeench: Black/Blue (Knowledge, Deceit)
Nurgle: Mono-black (Death)
Slannesh: Black/Blue/Red (Emotion, Perfection)

Eldar would be Green/Blue

Ynnari are Green/Black

Orks is for fightin' and orks are the reddist!

Tau are Blue/White (Order and Knowledge.)

Nids are Green/Red (Instinct, Nature and Destruction)

Necrons are playing White/Black/Blue Artifacts.

At least, that's my initial thoughts. Going more for the themes behind them than 'Which mechanics would line up best'

>>54223238

Using R/W on it is not really good design as haste is not both red and white and you are already paying red + white. Use just (1)

Put First Strike and Haste on the same line: See - Goblin Striker

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I very briefly tried making a 40k set once. The basic tribes were

Imperium: White
Nids: Green
Orks: Red
Chaos: Black
Eldar: Blue

with a lot of wiggle room, and the other factions spread out among various colors.

>>54223486
Orks strike me as mostly green/red with some red/black or green/black.

How'd that project pan out anyways?

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>>54223486
>>54223296
The Imperium is almost certainly white-black-red as a whole. It is commonly remarked in practically every source ever since forever to be a miserly, abysmal corrupted heap where the little guy goes through the most oppressive, uncaring shit every single day of his life while a flamboyantly rich few govern them by their own whims and malice, whether a noble or a planetary govener. Fucking hive cities, the most common establishment for humanity, is in no fucking way "white" by itself. Hive Cities, and the Imperium as a whole, is almost the embodiment of Orzov. Rare is the inquisitor that could ever be fingered without cold black or hot red to him/her.

Furthermore, blind passion, militaristic, zealous faith, the combination of Crusades and Wars of Faith, the prominent Imperial Cult, etc. all capture red and white/red. There is nothing monowhite about the Imperium. It is heavily steeped in black and red.

And that's completely ignoring its bureaucratic fuckup of an Azorius Administratum and the wildly colorful space marine legions, from upstanding Ultramarines to bloodthirsty Flesh Tearers to brutal Minotaurs to the singularly and remarkably so upstanding and noble Lamentors.

The Imperium isn't white. It has white components, but it is a hybrid shithole.

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>>54223583
Maybe mechanically, with their spores and growth, but philosophically they seem straight red to me.

And like I said... it was brief. I got ideas for about 30 cards and finished about 5, mostly basic commons.

>>54223823

Like most things, it's hard to narrow anything down to a single colour.

I should clarify what I meant >>54223296. Not that the Imperium is white itself but that the colour that links each of the parts of the Imperium is white. The oppression of the Arbites, the faith of the SOB, the sacrifice of the IG are all linked together by the monolithic order and subsuming of self that is white.

>>54223927
I'm saying it shouldn't be narrowed to a single color anymore than Boros or Orzov could be.

>>54221420

What kind of garbage card is this? It's not even trying.

I do like the idea of the Chaos factions being black+another color, though.

BR - Khorne
BU - Tzeentch
BG - Nurgle
BW - Slaanesh

>>54223992

I think the issue there is that Boros and Orzhov are singular factions rather than something that contains a whole heap of factions.

Outside of big spells, I can't think of too many pure 'Imperial' cards. They'd belong to a faction within that.

I'd agree that the imperium as a whole is very hard to narrow down to just a colour hence going by faction as that's easier to get a colour identity that isn't going to end borderline 5 colour.

Better question: What 40k armies would MtG characters play?

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Tried for a keyword that's less oppressive to gameplay than Hexproof without losing out on the flavor.

>>54224111
Nahiri plays Fists :^)

...:(

>>54221420
Everything would include black. Everything. except Tau

>>54221420
Imperium is W/G/B It is focused entirely on its order, tradition, spiritualism, and faith. Black comes in mainly due to how inefficient it is on every level, resulting in constant sacrificing of its populace to keep itself alive for a few more moments.

Of note, I'd argue Ad Mech don't break away from this on a large scale. Blue is the color of progress, not just knowledge or tech, and Green is actually the color that focuses more on tradition and the past. In most Mtg settings this is simply ancestral weapons, but in 40k such weapons are actually better, so it fits.

Dark Eldar are R/B to a T. Selfish killing of others to continue their freedom and emotional hedonism.

Craftworld Eldar are W/U/G. They have a similar focus on tradition and order like the Imperium, though lack the same degree of sacrifice and have more of a focus on the future and prophecy.

Tyranids are G/B. They are essentially driven by instinct, though their one-sided approach makes them parasitic and disruptive to the natural order.

Orks are pure Red. Doing what they want without any real rules, which is fighting and winning.

Tau are W/U, with a hint of G if you account for allies. Order, Logic, progress, fairly straightforward.

Necrons are W/B, though characters can make them trend towards R/U. Bringing order to the universe by enslaving their people as robots and killing everyone else. Could be argued as pure W

Chaos is all Red. Tzeentch is U, Nurgle G, Slaanesh B, Khorne double R, and Malak would be the only one who was W. Their followers have some wiggle room, but are invariably R due to how emotionally focused Chaos is.

Exceptions abound.

>>54224121
I actually like this mechanic

>>54224316

It's a mechanic I've had bouncing about my head for a while before using it here. Hexproof is a bit too all-or-nothing for permanent cards a lot of the time but getting a 'Lesser Hexproof' is tricky. Another vague idea I had for a lesser hexproof is 'Can't be targeted by spells with CMC less than it's toughness' but that's more of a Shadow in the Warp mechanic for a big Nid monstrous creature.

>>54224463
I think it would work a bit better if it only affected spells targeting permanents you control rather than all spells cast by your opponent. It's an interesting mechanic though, one definitely worth building around.

>>54224463
I think it's far too strong for what it costs to bring out on that card if it effects ALL spells opponents cast. If you narrowed it spells targeting creatures you control cast by opponents it would be a lot less broken.

>>54224567
>>54224673

Crud. I forgot to limit it to creatures you control, yeah.

It's supposed to work purely on 'This spell targets 2 of my Sororitas, +2 cost'. Rather than a wider oppression. Wording could do with some fixing.

>>54223203
Tzeentch is blue/red. He's not just about knowledge, but change too. Nothing represents change more than red.

>>54222922
Khorne should be mardu desu

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Norn = Empire
Jin = Tzeentch
Urabrask = Khorne
Sheoldred = Slaanesh
Vorinclex = Nurgle

I'm pretty sure Wizards just ripped these straight from WH40k anyway.

>>54227428

...what?

>>54225226
I feel like you have to swap 2nd and 3rd statements

>>54224313
There is nothing green about the Imperium. Green faith is about freedom and spirituality and hippie crap and the Imperium has none. It's faith is white to the core.

>>54224313
here's my opinion

>Imperium is W/G/B
Imperium is more like WBR. they don't have much green in them. however, they are pretty red considering how much they emphasize emotion over logic in things like praying to the emperor, stamping out heresy and hating xenos

>>54230593
Nah, the wording is correct, it's so the definite article "that" is clear as to which creature gains then "when this dies" effect. If you made the fight clause appear before it then it would be referring to your creature that you made fight.

And this is a relevant thing because magic has very specific and deliberate language.

>>54230779
I don't know if their fanaticism and xenophobia IS driven by emotion. You have to remember tha vast majority of the empire has no fucking clue what a heretic or a xenos even really is, the church just says they're an affront to god. And sure we could get into an argument about whether people flock to religion out of emotion or something like maintaining the status quo, but I feel it's ultimately irrelevant. The imperium hates shit because someone in power tells them to, that sounds hella white to me.

>>54231081
To me, one of the major parts of red is chaos and freedom. And idealistically, the Imperium of Man has no want for those.

>>54230593
>>54231056

Honestly, either could be done depending on what you want out of it.

I went more for the 'Kill stuff while trying to get penance' idea than the 'Get killed seeking penance' one as that would have been more in the Red/Black wheelhouse.

>>54222972
A huge mistake people make on /tg/ is that, just because a faction has one aspect of a color, doesn't mean that they're going to be that color.

Phyrexians were an organized army with generals, and ranks, they worked towards a common goal and did so with the belief that their way of life is what was best. Those are white philosophies, yet there wasn't any white Phyrexians until Mirrodin besieged, and even in that instance they were only white because Wizards said they were. Most of their mechanics and ideals were still bled over from black.

>>54232821
The other mistake they make is that colors should match the outfits.

>hurr Spider-Man should be UR

>>54223296
You have made me sad. No Dark Eldar.
And for the record, Deldar are clearly Black/Red.

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>>54232876

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid that with the cards I'm dicking about with.

Fortunately, there is a green mechanic (Non-keyworded rampage as they don't use it keyworded any more) that works perfectly for flamer troops. They get killer the more people that try to block them.

I'll admit, my love of flames make me keep going 'Maybe I should make them red' but emotion is the only red theme they really line up with and they fit green's spiritualism and tradition a lot harder.

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>>54232981

Bugger, screwed up the reminder text on it.

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>>54232981

And a vehicle on the simpler end. It will run you the fuck over.

>>54224086
This is the only correct assessment of Chaos.

Imperium philosophy is WBR.
Imperial Guard is W.
Sororitas is W, and I can see arguments for G.
Ultramarines are WU because theoretical/practical.
Space Wolves are probably WR.
Salamanders are WR because they have an affinity for fire and machines, both of which are under red.
Orks are GR.
Eldar are U with either W or G, possibly all 3.
Dark Eldar are BR. Harlequins too, probably.
Nids are GB.
Admech are UW, I really don't see red with them for anything blue doesn't already cover.
Necrons are UBW.
Tau are W, and only get U because mecha artifice and a lack of technological stagnation.

My assessments may be a little skewed, but I've been into Mtg for far longer than I have WH40K.

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And an orkier vehicle.

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>>54232981
Rampage appears in white too though, it's just less common.

>>54233220

Yeah, that's an inverted version of it (Gets bigger when blocking rather than blocked). I don't know if it ever got a name, due to being even less common than rampage.

Guardian of the Gateless is one of my favourite cards however.

>>54221420
First for Nyds are junk

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>>54233041
Only the first letter of a keyward string gets capitalized.

>>54233473

My bad. I'll fix that on the various cards.

>>54232821
To be fair, Old Phyrexia SHOULD have had white in it. Maybe some green as well. But it was a different time, when Black was The Bad Guys Color solely, and it was written off as Phyrexia (the plane) having access to nothing but black mana.
Yawgmoth was always monoblack regardless.

>>54232981
>>54233005
Rampage can appear in mono-white, but it's generally costed more or has a caveat.

>>54224086
whats white about Slaanesh?

>>54235235
>To be fair, Old Phyrexia SHOULD have had white in it.
Why? Mechanically they were black, flavorfully they just had a standing army and were organized. That doesn't immediately mean they should be white.

Ever since Ravnica Wizard's has made the five colors far too rigid, and the color parings are more rigid still.

>>54235658

Yeah, the SOB being White/Green makes it easy to include for flamer troops/not make it super rare.

What existing mechanics would you give to factions?
Nids would have Evolution I guess, any other idea?

>>54230742
Red is the color of freedom. Green is focused on tradition and the past. In addition, worship of the Emperor varies somewhat from planet to planet in order to make sure everyone can agree. More feral worlds would potentially see him as some great golden two headed eagle man in the sky.

>>54230779
The sort of zealotry you listed fits fine under White. Xenophobia is notably a White trait. The entire Imperium's methods are even set up to suppress Emotion and Freedom as much as possible in order to avoid Chaos incursions. Being a bit angry is not enough to justify Red, especially when the anger is due to wholy non-red reasons.

>>54232821
The problem is that Phyrexia's scientific survival of the fittest outlook in service of their god is actually far more fitting as WUG than mono-black.

Yeah, they're really sadistic about it, but it's an orderly religion concerned with doing science in order to evolve and create perfection. While the God they worship is Black and did this all for his own selfish reasons, the followers themselves lack that same sort of individualistic willpower.

>>54238335

My general thoughts:

>SOB: Tribe Boosting + Miracle. Individually they are not the most terrifying but they cooperate really well and they can pull out some bullshit.
>Necrons: Wither + Unearth. They'll grind you down and they'll come back again.
>Most: Vehicles are obviously a big part of it.
>Eldar: Fateseal + Scry. They control your fate.
>IG: Token generation + sac outlets
>Orks is made for Fightin'

Marines are surprisingly hard to think of a single defining characteristic beyond 'Uncomplicated Goodstuff'. Maybe Raid to promote them going offensive/representing their role?

>>54238600
Maybe a renamed version of Bushido for the marines, to symbolize their martial abilities?

Also, I would say prowess for Tau, with combat tricks and artifacts.

Orks could have Raid or Warcry maybe.

>>54238647

Prowess makes a lot of sense for Tau, yeah.

>>54238540
>The problem is that Phyrexia's scientific survival of the fittest outlook in service of their god is actually far more fitting as WUG than mono-black.
Colors actually used to be self-sufficient before they were turned into shallow alignments with a set number of traits. Back during Phyrexia's heyday, all of those things fit under black just fine.

These days you're right though. Black has been dumbed down to "I need to kill everyone but me for [self-serving goal]."

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>>54238647

>>54238928
It covers ambition, greed, "treat-yo-self" mentality, death, the occult/forbidden knowledge (for personal gain rather than the pleasure of knowing), selfishness, disease, betrayal, self-improvement, survival-of-the-fittest (which it shares with green).

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>>54239159
Seems good.

Pic related is a rough idea

>>54239532

Construct is likely not really a super needed type. Could likely get away with Artifact Creature - Marine

>>54238928
Colors being alignments with a general list of traits and philosophy is certainly more meaningful for these sorts of questions compared to 'this faction uses fire, so it's Red, and this faction is spooky, so it's Black'

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Surprise Meltagun.

>>54223296
I'm having a hard time understanding why Necrons have the Blue trait. I hope you don't mind explaining.

>>54239987

Their very strong scientific/knowledgeable theme. That whole 'They finished science' thing. That and the Pylons/Anti-warp stuff.

>>54233238
>Guardian of the Gateless is one of my favourite cards however.
mah nigga.

>>54238486
Revering the living past in a shamanistic way is green, but the Imperium doesn't do this. It worships a corpse on a throne who is still alive, and attempts to preserve things exactly as they were 10,000 years ago. Honestly I don't even think the Imperium should be red.

I also don't know why anyone thinks SoB should be green. There's nothing more green about them than any other religions order and probably less.

>>54240713

>Green {G}: connected, spiritual, tradition

Those are all strong terms that apply to the SOB.

>>54240984
>connected
Battle Sisters are no more connected to one another than soldiers of the Imperial Guard. Religion and tradition are equally W and G; there's no reason for them to be G on their own. Search for creatures with type "Priest" or "Monk" and you get - well, you get a shitton of WRU because of Jeskai, but still more W than G. ("Shaman" and "Druid" give you a shitton of G, but Sisters of Battle are much closer to priests and monks than they are to shamans and druids.)

>>54242636

>Battle Sisters are no more connected to one another than soldiers of the Imperial Guard.

I meant more 'connected to the emperor'. Green has a strong focus on channelling things greater than yourself and the SOB are one of the major factions on that front, with the Shield of Faith and other powers like that.

The Cleric type also gets a fair amount of green (Generally green/white). Green/White's overlap is generally that of faith and religion.

>there's no reason for them to be G on their own.

I don't think anyone is suggesting mono-green for them.

>>54242953
There are 220 mono-white clerics, 6 GW clerics which are almost all healers, and 13 mono-green clerics, which are almost all related the wild. The cards "Faith's Shield" and "Shielded by Faith" are mono-W. I just think you're reading in G where there is none.

>>54244162

What colours would you suggest then? Just mono-W?

>>54244162

I'd disagree with that. They hit the overlap of Green and White pretty hard.

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>>54244255
Sisters Hospitaller should be green. That's it. All you have to do is search Gatherer for the word "Faith" to see that everything faith-related, whether it's divine shields, swords of light, or cleansing fire are all white as white can be.

I mean, come on. This is a Sister of Battle if there ever was one. Show me a G/W card that resembles a Battle Sister in any way.

>>54244512

Sisters Famulous would be green too. They are about genetic purity of the noble houses and that's a very green science.

>>54232876
Spiderman is a smarts/agility hero, hes blue as fuck. Of course hes probably more green than red, but superior is definately izzet.

>>54244562
Eugenics seems more blue than green to me. Green improves genetics through survival of the fittest, not bloodline management.

>>54244795

So at this point Sisters are WUG?

>>54244795

The majority of 'Evolution' cards are green. Blue's genetic tinkering stuff is more in the 'Things man should not be doing' area.

>>54244843

Actually, thinking about it: Bant doesn't honestly sound like an inaccurate colour combination. The Dialogus are expressly knowledge and research experts, the Famulous and Hospitalers are medical and Genetics focused and faith ties it all together.

>>54239532
Very nicely done

>>54244795
>>54244859
Urza's crowning achievement was, more than all of the other bullshit he achieved, the Bloodlines Project that created Gerrard Capashen. And he was as blue as they come.

>>54223232
so an ordered human military regiment that's devoted to a chaos-god would appropriately be white/red

>>54242953
You're incorrect on one major thing. The secondary color for clerics is Black, not Green. W/B has the most religious theming out of any color pair, with Green squeezing in 3rd due to shamanism and druid systems.

>>54240713
I would argue that Abzan is still a good fit, but more key is how out of place Red is.