/k/ cross over. If 40k laser weapons was invented all of a sudden,

The primary advantage of lasguns isn't killing-power, but logistics. They are cheap, require no ammunition, and little maintenance. It wouldn't single-handedly decide a war, but it would be very nice.

>>54185575
Ultimately, small arms aren't anywhere near as important as they were.

Sure, they've got a small logistical and man on man lethality advantage, but they still don't have anything else that their serious threats have.

A lasgun isn't gonna stop them from getting bombed to fuck. In fact, giving jihadis lasguns is probably gonna result in them getting bombed out of existence almost immediately.

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>>54185621
Can lasriflers penetrate modern kevlar?

>>54185631
Would las cannons function as anti air?

>>54185621
I bet you if they would create such an issue in blue states because you can't ban ammunition as easily.

>>54185670
A las cannon still isn't gonna stop a cruise missile or a jet you don't have radar to see.

>>54185575
No, if every isis member got a lasgun our troops would have tans.

>>54185670
>Can lasriflers penetrate modern kevlar?
Seeing as they can now kill a Leman Russ possibly.

>>54185670
It's hard to say, given the crazy materials thrown around in 40k. As far as the game goes, Lasguns have no modifier for armor-penetration, even being stopped by the light armor you see bog-standard conscripts using. I'd imagine Kevlar might still be useful against it, but can't say for certain.

>>54185670
In previous editions of 40K, lasguns and autoguns had the same stats, with autoguns being roughly equivalent to modern assault rifles.

So expect a single pulse of a lasgun to do as much damage as a round from an assault rifle.

>>54185670
Kevlar probably not, but stuff like the ceramic body plates that soldiers wear would stop it. They'd probably heat up like a motherfucker though.

>>54185575
It depends whose lore/fluff you prefer and what variant of lasgun they're using. They vary in fluff from weapons that will destroy a golf ball size chunk of what they hit to a gold ball sized hole punched through what they hit to a weapon that will blow limbs clean off. Most of this actually relates to how the writer is trying to depict them. A force fighting insurmountable odds until the space marines turn up will have crappy useless las rifles, in books that centre around the guard they are formidable weapons easily modified and retrofitted to make better carbine and sniper variants.

In most fluff lasguns are equivalent to assault rifles with much less reliance on ammo supplies. But they're also in most lore highly visible, muzzle flash can be missed, a beam or glowing projectile (this also varies) is going to let the target know if they survive exactly where the shot came from.

Boltguns are even worse in the lore. In some books the recoil of them would break the arms of anyone who is not an astartes or in power armour, in other books the awesome thing about bolters is the lack of recoil for the amount of lead down range they produce and that they are meant to be totally viable in zero g and vacuum environs.

And if you ask me plasma weapons are even wackier.

>>54185721
Except that the lasguns do nothing to the Russ's 3+ armor save, implying that they are quite effectively stopped by its armor. Killing a Russ with lasguns involves drowning it in, on average, about 432 lasgun shots from guardsmen. This isn't you punching through it with the shots, it's you battering and wearing it down, lucky shots catching vulnerable spots and such.

>>54185719
Lasgun can kill tanks now, 8th edition is one hell of a ride.

>>54185787
They're still shit at it, though.

>>54185670
>las cannons function as anti air?
Anti-air lascannons exist, certainly.
Any random infantry fucker is going to have a bad time trying to use a lascannon like the one you posted as AA though, because hitting planes ain't easy.

Also, you know we have laser AA in development/deployment stages now right?
They've taken out drones and things.

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>>54185575
The better question is how would Melta and Plasma guns fair in the modern day?

>>54185779
Wouldn't the proper term be "You and those 431 other guardsmen are melting it under your concentrated las-fire"?

>>54185863
Yea I know, some real metal gear shit.

>>54185869
Plasmas would be branded as to unreliable I think but meltas would be very effective in close quarters.

>>54185922
That would be a workable explanation as well.

>>54185869
Melta would do poorly - it's too awkward to deploy, and it would be overkill against any armour you could find today.
Might be a good weapon for an insurgency though.

Plasma is a mixed bag, depending on how much the unreliability was an issue, but it'd be pretty strong - again it suffers from a lack of over-armoured targets, but it's capable of taking out pretty much any vehicle we have reliably, at decent range and with minimal weight/ammo (I think even modern MBTs would struggle with direct hits)

>>54185621
Well, in a modern setting the killing power is awesome, because they hit like a 20mm.

>>54185575
Las rifles are well - lasers. Instant hit, no bullet drop, no deviation, recoil nonexstent. Modern armor with the exception of ceramic plates will offer no protection unless its really thick

>>54186176
Actually, lasguns have recoil apparently. I forget the explanation though.

>>54186189
Isn't it simulated by some mechanism in the lasrifle deliberately? Something to do with tactile feed-back for the gunner?

>>54185924
I don't think our modern day forces would field plasma weapons as man-portable weapons. More likely, they'd be either vehicle mounted or stationary defenses. That way, you could have a person use them without being directly in harm's way.

>>54185575
Not much. Ammunition seldom seems to be an issue for either ISIS or counter ISIS forces. It does make spotting the shooter easier though. It may be more effective in situations that don't require the shooter to be hidden, so ISIS wouldn't use it much except in close quarters.

>Can lasriflers penetrate modern kevlar?
Depends. On the mandated power setting that most Guardsmen use? Probably not the first shot. Or the second. It might eventually but it's going to require a lot of lasfire.

At full power? Oh yeah.

>Would las cannons function as anti air?
Yes, if you can hit the target. That's the hard part.

>>54185869
>Plasma
Too unreliable. Until the 'exploding' part gets ironed out, no one would be willing to field it.

>melta
ISIS may like it, but national forces less so as it puts the soldier and the weapon in a dangerous position.

>>54185670
I think lasguns shoot microsecond pulses instead of continuous beams, so:
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmenergy.php#id--Lasers--Blaster
>I'm assuming a weapon designed to penetrate ~30cm in soft body tissue. This gives about 15cm in bone or plastic, 5cm in brick or concrete, or 2.5cm in steel or most ceramics. Synthetics won't be very good at stopping energy weapons, even tough ones like kevlar, but you might be able to find a ceramic that could stop a laser beam with a centimeter's thickness or so.

>I also mentioned earlier that lasers would likely have to have pulse energy and frequency tuned to the specific material being targeted. It might be possible to do this automatically, based on crude spectoanalysis of the material vaporized in each pulse, but if not expect penetration to be roughly halved if a laser weapon is fired at a target it has not been optimized for.

>You also need to focus the energy on the target, with a spot size of a millimeter or less. With a laser, that gets kind of tricky. A 5-centimeter mirror, about the largest you can really imagine on a pistol, gives an effective range of perhaps sixty meters, beyond which the weapon starts losing penetration quite rapidly.

Otherwise, ray beams seem the closest real system:
>Ray beams are lasers that emit needle-thin beams that produce a white-hot plasma along their path and easily burn deep holes into their targets. The main difference between ray beams and blasters/heat-rays is that ray beams use vacuum frequencies.

Thing is, those are scientific estimates, and nothing is more abused than the laws of science in WH40K.

>>54185924
>Plasmas would be branded as to unreliable
They're unreliable only when used at full power, and even then you can offset that by making them better than average, which would fit our quality over quality mindset

>>54186422

Any regular body armor will get fucked up and so will the body beneath it. Ceramic plates might do something if you are lucky.

A laser destroys by heat transfer. Basically same as applying a welding torch to your body, but even worse. You'd get serious tissue damage and burns even from a near miss or a grazing shot. A soldier that is hit will get cooked from the inside out. They will make decent AA platforms too. Instant hit, no bullet drop remember? Just point and shot.

>>54186737
>They're unreliable only when used at full power
So useless by most military standards. Either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, send it back to the eggheads until it does work.

>>54186780
Yeah but see that's also a problem. Instant cauterizing. No chance of infection, not chance of bleedout, half the medic's job is done.

>A soldier that is hit will get cooked from the inside out.
We're operating under the assumption lasguns will work like they do in 40k. As in, make a bright light, burn a hole and do nothing else.

>>54186858
Thats how they work in 40k too. Thats why it says lasguns can remove limbs. Instant heat transfer means the liquid in the body gets to the boiling point so there's a ton of ruptured...well everything, around the the wound. What you won't have to deal with for certain - is bone fragments and fractures.

>>54186818
That's where the other part of my post comes in. You fit your forces with higher quality plasmaguns.

>major issues with penetration, even with light vegetation
>issues with shooting through smoke and other obscurants
It would have niche uses but as infantry ammo logistics are not really an issue right now most nations would probably keep using their old sluggers.

>>54185709
>dont have radar to see
Daily reminder that toothless serb farmers managed to shoot down B-25s with outdated equipment.

>>54186927
>Thats how they work in 40k too
I thought it just flash fried the area it hit so there'd be a charred stump.

That sounds less like a laser and more like a microwave.

>>54187021
So? Having a big ass vehicle doesn't make it totally impervious to everything ever. You can still bring down a bomber with dumb luck and a few guns that aren't jammed. It'll be hard but it's not impossible.

>>54186189
>>54186369
The Las rifles have "kick" because the air around the laser instantly combusts causing recoil

>>54185869
>Melta
Anti building weapon with several kilometers of range. Replaces most conventional artillery for the more primitive military forces

>Plasma
More of the same as melta, except it behaves more like conventional acid liquid on steroids.

>>54186102
You are a man of little vision and no faith.
You think 1:1 usage of overkill weapons is reasonable. When they should just be used as anti infrastructure/building/bunker weapons.

>>54187096
This is assuming the defender of the building wants to destroy everything, including the building supports with a single shot

>>54187143
>Strategically deny enemy cover, killing them with their own fortifications
>But you have to destroy everything to do that!
Pick one

>>54185575
The original fluff art for the stub pistol was a good old 1911, so slugthrowers still have a place even in forty kay.

>>54187096
What are you talking about? meltas are short ranged weapons.

>>54187021
...do it with a B-52 and I might be impressed.

>>54187203
A multimelta has at least assault rifle range, not that short. Not even close to kilometers, granted.

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>>54187220
fucking kraut space magic

>>54187203
Meltas are short range weapon, in TABLETOP, against MEGA DEATH ALIEN TANKS.
Outside of that setting, like against shitty metal & glass skyscrapers, what would you assume the range is? 10km? A horizon?

>>54187170
It's a melta gun anon, it doesn't discriminate, it vaporizes everything. It picks both.

>>54187260
As in they lose effectiveness against human targets somewhere between 60-100 meters, so still relatively short ranged.

>>54186818
>useless

You're getting the same old plasma gun, just without Gets Hot! All the stronger setting does is give it +1 Str. and +1 Dmg.

>>54187255
>assault rifle range

Think you mean pistol range. At tops. Effective range is even closer. Think late war panzerfausts had longer ranges.

Still, good for demolition work, but not for actual, dedicated tank hunting.

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>>54187354
That's not what you sold to the General when he gave you funding for this project MISTER SCIENTIST. Get back in your lab and get it right!

>>54187390
It has the same range as an assault rifle, that's the fluff and crunch, the rest is in your head. It already works against tanks, granted it gets the full blast going at half that.

>>54187353
Isn't the rules basically
>If you only fire half your range, you get a a dice bonus to do more damage
But this is 40k. 24" tabletop could be 40 kilometers. or 24.

>>54187506
And yet, like that other anon said, melta guns are explicitly stated to be short range weapons in the fluff. Multi-meltas have a better range, but compared to something like a heavy bolter or plasma cannon, they're still very short ranged.
And if you think that there is a 1:1 scaling in the TT, you are woefully retarded.

>>54187260
>>54187255
>>54187260

No, according to 40k rpgs meltas have the optimal range of 20 meters as opposed to 100 meters of the lasgun. Maximum ranges of the weapons are 4 times their standart ranges so 400 meters for lasguns and 80 meters for melta guns max. At short ranges (10 meters) meltas are more effective than vanquisher cannons ( which has 16 pen as opposed to 12*2=24 pen)

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US would still use AR platform

5.56

And we'd still be forced to use those shit IOTV's, side plates and all

>>54185696
"Las Weapon Ban"

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Las thread?

Las thread.

>>54187021
eh dude?
you mean a F-117
B-25s are WW2 air craft
and it was with a pretty advanced missile, S-200 i think

>>54187456
Meltagun has 12" range, same as an autopistol. Autoguns have a range of 24". How is that in my head?

>It already works against tanks

Yeah, at 12" range. 6" if you want it to be proper effective. That's quarter of an autogun's range. How many anti-tank weapons do you see with effective ranges a quarter of a rifle's range?

>>54188026
my bad its a SA-3 goa

would las weapons be considered incendary weapons?

>>54185621
>cheap
We have no idea how 'cheap' they are compared to autoguns or other more primitive weapons. We do know that the Munitorium has systems in place to mass produce them. If they're anything like our modern military then it's probably the most expensive and least efficient model available.

>require no ammunition
Power packs are ammunition.

>little maintenance
This we can agree on solely because in the setting lore anything beyond the most basic maintenance requires seminary training in addition to field ops.

>It wouldn't single-handedly decide a war
No single weapon ever has.

>>54191267
>No single weapon ever has.
Remind me, what made Japan surrender at WW2?

>>54191296
Inevitability. The war in the pacific was over after Midway, it was just a matter of how much the Allies wanted to spend unseating the military junta in charge of Japan. If you're trying to say the A-bomb won it, you're a moron who gets his facts from the History Channel. The firebombings killed more people than the atom bombs did, the a-bomb was just quick and new.

>>54191296
Soviet Union declaring war on them and starting to mop up their forces in China.

as a general rule lasguns won't change much, that said you can be your bottom dollar that 1. they will be made fully automatic (they have fuck all recoil) and 2. the heavier versions would have a lot of impact, missile defense would be pretty much inpenetrable without some form of cover/stealth for the missile and that Railguns would replace lasers in small arms and artillery for 3 reasons. 1. railguns are moire effective a dissipating their energy into a target 2. railguns are more energy efficient and 3. Railguns out range lasguns. Until we get to impirium level logistics lasguns as a small are are pointless

>>54191296

More than just a bomb.

>>54191296
american education fails to mention the firebombing of Tokyo and Russia killing 250k Jap troops in a few days

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Doing some quick math here. I ain't one'na that them there science-folk so take this all with a grain of salt.

Now that said, a lasgun's power pack has a 19 megathule range. If we assume a megathule is the same thing as our megajoule, that gives us an upper limit of 1.9e+7 joules of energy in each power pack. Now, keeping in mind a lasgun gets 150 shots per pack, this means that, if no power is wasted over the course of the magazine's life, you'd have exactly 1.266 (repeating) trillion joules per shot. Compare this number to the amount of muzzle energy of, say, a .50 caliber BMG round (which has only ~15 thousand joules) and the power of the lasgun becomes clear.

They will fuck you up full stop.
The 16" guns on the fucking Iowa-class battleships only have 411.7 thousand joules of muzzle energy, not even a third that of the basic lasgun shot. This isn't a question of "Will kevlar stop a lasgun shot?" It's a question of "How the fuck are the IG losing battles when each of their soldiers is equipped with a fucking lasgun?"

GW and numbers... not even once.

>Take it with a mound of salt since GW can't into numbers
>Might not to be too reliable as this is taken from "The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, Damocles Gulf Edition"
>HUGE fucking supposition
>Imperial Munitorum Manual

>Our system thinks your post is spam. Please reformat and try again.
Fuck you gookmoot. I've reformated 20 times already. Just let me post you candy ass roody poo.

>>54185575
Totally meaningless. Infantry rifle are basically for cleanup duty in modern warfare, air support and artillery determine the victor.

>>54191296
A combination of a strategic bombing campaign (incendiary, HE and atomic), the entry of the Soviet Union into the war as well as a aerial mining campaign and submarine blockade.

>>54185575

The problem with lasgun power is that it varies so much depending on who's writing about them. Some novels have them being pretty powerful, punching through light (as in infantry grade) armor easily and blowing out chunks of flesh or even limbs if hit in the right spot. Others have them just like tiny pin pricks but being massed so heavily they can bring stuff down.

The one thing that seems common across the board is they don't have quite the range of modern solid projectile weapons.

>>54192982
Yeah, BL and GW have a terrible habit of having things be grossly inconsistent.

Sometimes Space Marines can survive getting shot with tank rounds or falling out of space. Other times they get brought down by auto-gun wielding cultists.

>>54185621

Aren't laser guns semi-explosive in 40k (turns blood to steam and erupts making messy wounds)

>>54192770

Well, your maths could be easily debunked by the Fact we don't know what a Megathule is.

However, all the people saying that a Lasgun is outmatched by modern day firearms are wrong. Lasguns are vastly more powerful than modern firearms, and would easily cut through modern body armour.

The problem is (and where the whole "flashlight" thing comes from" is some of the absurdly powerful weapons and absurdly strong Body armour Materials/ walking hulks of muscle/ Chaos Infused Demon skin. Compared to those, the Lasgun is incredibly weak.

but make no mistake, (for the most part) a lasgun would burn through Kevlar with no effort whatsoever. It really is what >>54192982 said, most of it comes down to how much the writer wants to Plot Armour the enemy / Shit on the Imperial Guard.

Also, the cauterisation is bullshit as well, at the sort of temperatures we're dealing with here, the water in your blood would boil to steam almost instantaneously. That rapid change in pressure would burst your skin, leaving massive fucking wounds for blood to spill out of, not a neat little pencil-wide dot. This also goes for Lightsabers and Blasters in Star Wars btw.

>>54187025
throw a bag of salad in a volcano and you will see what he means.

>>54186989
i think op is asking if the 40k lasgun would be useful

>>54185762
This is literally meaningless.

>>54185575
>cornered, barely trained third-world bandits with flashlights

Yeah western civilization is really shaking in its boots now.

In other news, DARPA captures and reverse-engineers them, getting a 10-hour erection from all the stuff they could do with the technology.

>>54186422
>isis being afraid of exploding

Ehh

O-2 Hooah here,

The advantages of the Lasrifle as mentioned are its ubiquitous nature, ability to charge ammunition, and ease of mantainance.

In lore it is mentioned as being of varying strength but always roughly between a 5.56 and 7.62.

It would be a flat improvement over at least our standard issue M4s (if the sights of a las rifle are comparable) but it wouldn't be some sort of super weapon.

>>54185762
>So expect a single pulse of a lasgun to do as much damage as a round from an assault rifle

I don't even have enough time this century to explain to you how this sentence doesn't even make sense

>>54194240
a weapon with no drop and the ability to reduce the weight of a soldiers load without compromising effectiveness. Plus this weapon makes people fucking explode and you got to think about how most armor is designed around stopping kinetic energy it will most likely start an armor arms race.

I suppose in today's wars its true potential cant be used but think of a conventional war like say ww2.

>>54194518
It only makes people explode when some people are writing it.

>>54194526
the weapon works through heat transfer right?
the only way it could work would produce this effect just because some writers are inconsistent doesn't mean it should affect how thermodynamics works.

the problem with this thread is we don't have a standard of how lasweapons work here.

>>54194518

I don't know...Hadjis are nothing if not inventive.

Lets add the fact that you can make lasgun batteries into an IED - pretty powerful one too.

>>54194575
It's because there isn't one. Like virtually everything else in 40k that isn't directly stated.

Hell, some things are directly stated and still contradicted. Like Meltaguns.

>>54185575
>If 40k laser weapons was invented all of a sudden, how would they change modern warfare?
it would free up pack space for more food and less ammo. as a result patrols last longer. infantry spend even less time than they used to outside the wire. countries that can afford lasguns have a massive logistical advantage over those that can't.

>>54185869
they would shred our vehicles. warfare would probably focus a lot more on infantry as a result.

>>54193076
>lightsabers make bodies explode

Metal

>>54194604
*edit. i meant more time outside the wire. not less.

>>54194641
infantry casualties will increase too. Not back to WW2 levels, but at least Vietnam. Deadlier accurate weapons and no working armor remember?

>>54194695
also the type of wounds lasweapons produce can be extremely hard to produce.
at least soldiers wont have to wear body armor for a little.

>>54194518
The U.S. Army wouldn't like a standard issue rifle that is that lethal. We like 5.56s because people often survive being dropped by them. Makes us look good to NATO and you can't ask a dead man questions. In all other aspects it is superior to the M4

I believe it would start a balancing between ballistics armor, refractive armor.
Kevlar protects you from some kinetic energy and you can put any kind of Camo over it. Refractive armor would disperse las weapons but you can bet it would light you up like a fucking beacon

>>54188089
No because their purpose is not by design to start fires

>>54191296
torching 60 of their cities first?

>>54191267
>require no ammunition
>Power packs are ammunition.
Power packs are solar-rechargabe, and in a pinch you can throw one in a campfire to recharge it extra-fast and supercharge it (though doing so usually ruins the power-pack in the long run.)

>It wouldn't single-handedly decide a war
>No single weapon ever has
The stirrup did, and it's not even a weapon.

>>54194745
>The U.S. Army wouldn't like a standard issue rifle that is that lethal.

Can't we figure out a way to turn down its kill power with a switch, like an intensity dial? Set phasers to stun and all that.

>>54194936

I don't know...limb shots and flesh wounds would still be survivable but crippling much more often. Which is the desired goal I suppose?

>>54185670
>Kevlar
Probably as Kevlar is designed to prevent kinectic rounds and would melt against intense heat.
Through a ceramic plate? Probably not unless you had it cranked way up.

>>54186579
Atomic Rockets a best. Pulsed lasers are so much more stupidly effective than continuous beam lasers that it's not even a contest. Expect one pull of the trigger on any future laser weapon to pulse a thousand one-microsecond pulses for maximum cavitation damage.

>>54188026
>>54188057
>>54187021
I believe he was talking about the F-117 and it had flown the same path daily for over a week (giving a completely predictable flight pattern) and had its ordinance bay doors open significantly increasing is RCS allowing a lock.

So unless your enemy is completely retarded, no, lascannons would be terrible AA without radar.

>>54191267
>no single weapon ever has

This. The closest thing to war-winning weaponry (iirc) in human history would be firearms when facing forces without them. Even then, if you look at the colonisation of the Americas you'll see that the existence of muskets didn't just let the Spanish stroll through the place throwing down flags.

Remember that the original purpose of the Molotov cocktail (flammable liquid in a glass) was to disable tanks.

>>54195154
At least they're often self-cauterizing, but no soldier is going to be happy if you tell them head and body shots are out

>>54194745
>we like 5.56 because people survive
Holy shit are you one of those "wounding round" fudds? What's next .50 BMG wounding with near misses?

We like it because:
It's flat shooting.

You can carry a lot more for the same weight as 7.62x51.

Doctrine shifted to massing fire on target versus a few accurate shots. Thousands of rounds are spent per kill in modern conflicts. The 5.56x45 NATO is extremely lethal out of 20"+ barrels as the round yaws and fragments inside the target. It is less lethal out of carbines like the M4 only because of the loss of velocity from the shorter barrel which has been mostly rectified by adopting M855A1 EPR.

>>54195413
>Holy shit are you one of those "wounding round" fudds? What's next .50 BMG wounding with near misses?
No, I'm a fucking 1st Lt. and it is one of the reasons we use it, even fucking ROTC Cadets are taught that.

Everything else you've said is true as well, but the 5.56 creates smaller (if less reliable due to often deflecting inside targets) wounds than a 7.62 that are easier to treat. Shit, soldiers that have tried to vomit suicide by jamming their rifle under their chin have survived before.

>>54195524
the fuck are you saying? do you know anything about guns?

>>54195524
>Lt.
>ROTC
Well that answered my question about that retardation.

>>54195611

It's summer, remember?

>>54193076
>all the people saying that a Lasgun is outmatched by modern day firearms are wrong

Modern firearms exist in 40k too and they have identical stats, they are called autoguns.

>>54193076
Yeah, except for all the wild inconsistencies in everything involving anything involving weapons and tactics in 40k.
40k has the internal logic of a WWE match; shit happens only ever because the plot requires it to happen that way and everything else is just rationalizations from idiots who can't get over how not-serious their hobby is.

>>54195765
Only for the purpose of crunch.
In fluff autoguns struggle to penetrate standard Flak armor reliably unless it's something along the lines of a heavy stubber.
It's why the guard generally doesn't have an issue with common traitors unless they're packing daemons or CSM or something.

>>54195935
In fluff Space Marines are unkillable to Imperial Guard except when they aren't.

>>54185869
the best question, however, is what the flying fuck IS melta, anyway? from a lore perspective

>>54195987

pulled from the wiki

>a type of Imperial plasma weaponry that make use of a miniature fusion reaction to produce a blast of intense, searing heat.

>>54187021
Like >>54195220 said, the Serbs had radar-guided SAM site at their disposal.

Engaging modern aircraft without radar is a fool's errand

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>>54185621
They require power packs with almost the same regularity as changing modern magazines.

>>54185670
>Can lasriflers penetrate modern kevlar?
Lasguns have issues penetrating flak jackets and are shit against plates - assuming there is any relation between the modern and 40k versions of those.

>>54193028
In the Cain novels, wounds from lasguns are described as burning a hole an inch or two into the flesh and cauterizing itself - and it is often remarked that there isn't a fear of bleeding out.

>>54195987
I always pictured them as gigantic superheated blowtorches, but the Space Marine game (kind of sort of canon) treats them like shotguns.

>>54195987
There's 2 main kinds mentioned, one is basically an extremely powerful microwave gun. The other is essentially a reusable nuclear shaped charge.

>>54196189
>They require power packs with almost the same regularity as changing modern magazines
Right, but they can be recharged from basically any power source (even being left in a fire works, but that can tank their long term reliability). So you don't need to worry about getting more ammunition through supply lines.

>>54196189
IG Flakk is better than modern body armour.
Its resistant to heavy stubber fire which is basically a space .50 BMG.

>>54196439
>Its resistant to heavy stubber fire
t. Imperial Primer

>>54194604

Battle fatigue is a thing you fucking desk gunner.

>>54196020
>Engaging modern aircraft without radar is a fool's errand
If they're coming low enough to bomb you or provide CAS las weapons would be work in an appropriate mounting system. You'll not need to lead your target which will make eyeballing it feasible.

>>54185922
No since regular autoguns (the setting's term for assault rifles) can do the same thing with just as many bullets.

>>54185575
Lasguns would only make a small difference. The higher "caliber?" las weapons would change the game for the guys who had them.

>>54194695

60% of preventable battlefield deaths were from exsanguination from the limbs. Now all troops carry tourniquets.

Also, a "projectile" that can shoot clean through without tumbling, whose heat can cauterize the entire wound.... no, yeah, wouldn't be as bad as you'd think.

>>54196512
But you see, auroguns exert kinetic force upon their targets while las-guns exert heat and energy upon their targets.

So, while autoguns would jsut hammer the tank till it turned into an oversized raisin, the las-guns would instead heat it until it started melting.

>>54185575
Doesn't las travel literally at the speed of light?

I think the biggest change will the be fact that people no longer need to lead targets. Snipers especially will have a fucking field day.

Effectively no travel time, no recoil, and a huge magazine? Each pull of the trigger might not be much different, but everything else would make las such an improvement.

And let's not get started on the bigger las weapons...

>>54185772
Wouldn't it be easy to mask the beam by changing the wavelength? It would shoot a beam invisible to the naked eye.

>>54185779
432 lasgun shots from guardsmen

So about 2 rounds of fire from 50 conscripts with the first rank/second rank order. Seems legit.

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>>54194745
>>54195524
>The U.S. Army wouldn't like a standard issue rifle that is that lethal. We like 5.56s because people often survive being dropped by them. Makes us look good to NATO and you can't ask a dead man questions.
It's only morning and this is already the dumbest crock of shit I'm going to read all day.

>>54197609

I want to live in your world where I can get 50 Conscripts into rapid fire range with tank without any of them dying, for 2 straight turns.

>>54196373
Yeah, because you get to recharge your mags mid combat.
There's difference you fuckwit

>>54197747
well yeah. thats part of what a chimera is for.

>>54187021
Read up on it, the Serb commander came up with some seriously cool shit and the "toothless farmers" were very highly trained soldiers.

Assuming they had no teeth bit the USAF in the ass, badly.

Why do people say that autoguns are the same as modern day guns? Can you even comprehend the difference between modern firearms and those done 800 years ago? Even a thousand years of progress will make a major difference, and the stc's are problably at least from 29/30th milennium ish if not later

>>54197769
But you don't always have a chimera with you either
When you're in the trenches and you run out of mags to use it doesn't matter that you can refill or recharge 5km behind your lines, your commissar won't let you and out of ammo is out of ammo
No matter if you have a lasgun or an autogun the next move is to affix bayonets

>>54197771
Because of FFG fanfiction.

>>54191296
The war was already decided. It's an exercise for the student to say when it was decided and I'm a crap student so I won't.

(I won't say you're wrong if you say Pearl Harbor)

The bombs just made the Japanese pack it in earlier.

>>54193076
Everything in Star Wars is explicitly bullshit anyway and bringing meters and seconds and joules into it carries actual health hazards. Shrinkage of the penis and starting up internet forums are common.

>>54191296
made it quicker. The war was already won.

In the off chance ISIS got Lasguns, the United States would probably be rolling around in Baneblades with body armor around the strength of Militarum Tempestus Scions.

>>54197018
>does light literally travel at the speed of light?
Gee, I don't know. How fast do you think it fucking travels?

>>54197805
To be fair, the nukes caused a panic reaction.
Civilians were ordered to fight to the death after all, including children using improvised spears
Without them, ut probably would've gone on for a moment longer and caused even more deaths

>>54197018
More a designated marksman thing, surely.

>>54192770
The big problem is that a 19 MJ laser is 10 times more energetic as the kind of lasers designed to trigger nuclear fusion nowadays. This kind of laser fits in a 300m long building. It doesn't fit with the lasrifle description.

>>54197860
Yeah, but the war was already decided. Japan was fucked and had been for some time.

If Japan hadn't surrendered Downfall and its Soviet counterpart would have been horrible, but the Japanese would have been no less fucked.

>>54197847
>Isis Gets lasguns
>Ammunition is not an issue
>Lasguns Fail on 0.1% of cases
>No more Need to supply ISIS becouse guns are amazing and need no more ammo
>USA uses baneblades
>Gets bombed to oblivion by the Syrian army and russia
>Tempestus Scions are deployed
>Since there are only about 100 of them deployed against the full might of Isis which now you can no longer fuck up their equipment the tempestus Scions manage to kill a bunch of them but are eventually brought down by sheer overwhelming numbers.

>>54197850
Depends on the material it's shining through. It's slower in water than it is in air than it is in a vacuum.
I think the slowest is something like 40mph through some super-cooled material

>>54197791
lasgun still lets you carry more ammo at least. You get 60 shots out of a charge pack not much bigger than a mobile phone. plus functionally unlimited ammunition in the long term, literrally any power source will do. If you're desperate and in the trenches a campfire will do that you can hot swap your charge packs from.

>>54187025
More or less the same in concentrated amounts. The part hit would go pop due to the flashboil, bones would most probably shatter violently and the body would instantly go into shock.

>>54187910
Well you have to empty the stockpile somehow.

>>54196448
It is.
40k flak armor are made from molded woodchips with hefty coating of ceramite. It would shrug off modern ballistic weapons. But lasguns can penetrate it, due to the things capable of going through concrete walls.

>>54197700
Easy i'd bring 500 and once in range i'd probably have 90+ left. Its more than adequate.

>>54195765
Autoguns are mostly loaded with 12gauge slugs ammunition and bigger.

>>54187855
80m is still good for a man portable weapon that can accidentally a whole tank.

>>54197945
presumably a lot of energy gets wasted.
the whole visible beam and crack noise is the laser turning the air in its path into plasma, thats not going to be energy efficient especially at longer ranges.

>>54185621
They lack killing-power against whatever superhuman horror of the setting, against other humans it does just fine
>>54185575
it wouldnt change much, Isis&friends already have top of the line weaponry provided by the US (see TOWs etc), even with a good weapon such a lasgun you have to take in account the training, discipline and all the other armaments deployed by an army.

but yeah, considering the large amount of time passing in beetween a fight and another, a rechargable pack would be a quartermaster wet dream

>>54185779
>500 lasguns firing at a tank costantly full auto
>all those lasbolts actually heat up the tank so much that the crew cant even touch anything without burning
>the crew decides to bail the tank for a mix of uncomfort and fear of the ammunition catching fire

thats how i explain lasguns killing leman russes in the game.

>>54185869
>Plasma
good weapon, but too unreliable for the whole overheating (even a non dangerous one at min settings) and the fact that glows
>melta
it would be the same shit as a flamethrower, everyone would be so scared of it that it would become a priority target, and everyone using it would have a lifespan of a few minutes, and it has a range thats like 4 times shorter of a flamethrower

>>54198376
>and it has a range thats like 4 times shorter of a flamethrower

12 vs 8. They've got an extra 1/3 over a flamethrower.

>>54185869
War crimes most likely, especially plasma until it stops exploding.

>>54198384
im talking about real flamethrowers tho, those things can reach 70m.

while melta has always been depicted as a weapon that doesnt get used further than 4-3m

>>54198427

Yeah but real rifles reach a lot further than 40k's sort of ranges too. Seems reasonable to assume that all 40k weapons are shorter range on the TT than they actually are.

Meltaguns in the SOB books (Especially the sanctuary 101 book) got used at longer ranges than that. Not super long but a lot longer than 3-4m.

>>54192770
>make assumptions
>blame GW for those assumptions being ridiculous

>>54197953
>The war was already decides
That is easy to say in retrospect

>>54198000
I feel like talking to a wall
And it's not like you just let them lay in the fire for 5 minutes and they're fully loaded

>>54192770
You may have gotten the Iowa number slightly off, Anon. Slightly. A smidgen. Just a few orders of magnitude.

The 1.266 (repeating) trillion joules per shot is just odd. Typo?

Thing is, most high estimates of lasgun power is based off fluff showing something big alike a torso getting vaped by a lasgun, and if thaht's the case Guard flak armor is obviously 100mm RHA or whatever, and therefore a Guard squad beats 400 stormtroopers with AT-AT and orbital support. Also GAME DOESN'T COUNT in spite of it being based off a game in the first place.

Anyway, lasgun appears to be roughly as lethal as an autogun and gets fluff advantages in logistics. If it was a repeating autocannon equivalent it would have the stats for it. No need to upwank it.

>>54198116
>implying future ammo is in any way comparable to modern ones

>>54199452
I said the war was _decided_ - wasn't it Yamamoto who said something on the lines that if Japan couldn't end the war (politically I assume) inside eighteen months they'd be fucked?

At some point Japan seizing any taken island became a remote possibility, the mainland fronts were worsening. It was just a matter of going down swinging.

>>54185762
Autoguns in 40k range from weapons cruder by far than a modern gun, to ridiculously powerful large calibre assault rifles firing thousands of rounds a minute with explosive ammunition.

There's never any consistency in 40k, but a generic term like autogun is doubly vague.


Anyone remember that Abnett book where a lasgun is set to FULL POWER and gibs a CSM? If you assume lasguns work like that, then ISIS suddenly can blow up tanks with lasers.

>>54187506
24" tabletop could be 40 kilometers

no it couldn't

>>54199515
Well, did he bother to tell that to the allies at the time?

Well given the effect of las weapons on un-armoured targets I'd say Isis would be pretty terrifying.

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>>54195524
>muh .308 stoppin powah
Wow. I hope I don't get a Rotctard like you when we invade the Norks.

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>>54199541
So what is 24'' on tabletop even?
Seeing that a lot of stuff doesn't have higher range, its either going to be 40-80km, or around that area.

Warlord Battle Titan has range up to 480'', for missiles. So thats either half the planet in one direction, or severely far beyond 40km.

>>54192770
Also this.
40k war math? Not even fucking once

>>54199556
Don't be silly, he didn't have to.

Oh, and I didn't say the war was _won_ or that going easy on the Japs after whatever point the could be seen as fucked, Midway or wherever, would be a good idea.

>>54192770
>19 megajoules
Man I agree with NO MATH ON FANTASY SHIT, but you are a complete fucking dunce.
Nineteen megajoules are like 4500Kcal, little more than two days food intake for a human, split it into 150 shots and I'ts a very measly quantity of energy, surely not a Iowa main gun or anything near it.
I fucking hate you ignorant morons who knows shit and open you damn mouths anyway to blurt out bullshit.

>>54185621
>Can blow a leg off with a hit
>No recoil, bullet drop or travel time
>100 round magazine

Yeah you ain't gonna win the firefight against that shit with a modern weapon.

>>54199475
Yeah. 40k ammo ranges from black powder lead ball to full space bullets.

We had a thread similar to this and thus was a short lived and glorious effort between /tg/, /k/ and /sci/ born.

This also solved the debate of why Halo can suck it and that Flashlights > SPARTANs

https://pastebin.com/w8VJkA2p

You're welcome anon...

>>54198427
>4-3m
What the fuck? If the tabletop is anything to go by it's got 1/3 the range of an assault rifle. Pretty good considering it can burn straight through future alloys.

>>54185670
Yes it would punch cleanly through Kevlar, but so do most rifle caliber rounds. You could give ISIS whatever super future gun you want but until they learn to AIM nobody in the modern western militaries is in any real trouble.

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>>54202030
You give them space guns, that can be used as accurate and effective anti building, and anti aircraft weapons.
But most likely they will have no logistic training for such operations, and waste them.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't shitpost like this... but in a thread like this, I don't really care:

Say a portal suddenly opens up in the Middle East and Codricuhn the Blood Storm pops out of it. He then starts wandering in the vague direction of Mecca. What happens?

For those of you who missed 4e, Codricuhn is a fuck-off-huge (as in, big enough to physically climb out of the Abyss) Demon Prince who carries his abyssal layer. Coagulus, with him, in the form of an eternal storm of poisoned clouds, crackling thunderhead and raining blood that flows out of his body, as well as six demon-infested moons orbiting his body.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codricuhn

>>54188030

MULTI MELTAS HAVE ASSAULT RIFLE RANGE

READ

>>54187855
Even if we assume thats true, its still a sappers wet dream.
Literally cuts trough anything, like Gods Divine Light, at 80 meters.
At 160 meters its still cutting trough everything like butter, just slower.

>>54199467
>You may have gotten the Iowa number slightly off, Anon. Slightly. A smidgen. Just a few orders of magnitude.
>The 1.266 (repeating) trillion joules per shot is just odd. Typo?
Nope, just bad at math. I got the conversion from scientific notation to regular numbers wrong. The lasgun should have 19,000,000 joules per magazine, meaning that if you have 150 shots per magazine, each shot should have 126,666.67 joules of muzzle energy, or roughly 7 times that of a .50 BMG round.

>>54200840
>you are a complete fucking dunce.
Yep. Don't try to do math at 1 in the morning kids.
>19 megajoules... split it into 150 shots and it's a very measly quantity of energy, surely not a Iowa main gun or anything near it.
Correct. A lasgun shot has roughly 1/3249 the power of the 16-inch/50 cal. Mark 7 guns the Iowa class has.
Even still though, that's more than respectable firepower for an everyday infantryman's weapon.

>>54205920
>19,000,000 joules per magazine

I thought it's the output of a single shot. Something like a Lucius pattern lasgun operates at a 21 megathule range and is noted for being more powerful, but having less shots.

>>54185762
Your average autogun is a fucking coilgun.

Think of a mini-railgun working on caseless Kraut magic.

>>54185762
2e lasguns had the same AP as bolters.

In fluff terms, lasguns are often fired in single shots, some only have single shot capability (Lucius and Accatran patterns, for example) where as autoguns are noted for having very high rates of fire. Same with autopistols and laspistols. Laspistols fire single shots while autopistols are UZIs.

So it's not "each autogun shots is equal to a lasgun shot" but more accurately "each lasgun shot is equal to a burst or two from an autogun."

>>54205991
>Your average autogun is a fucking coilgun.

No, they use chemical propellants, they just don't have casings.

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>>54197691
the guy explains it in the dumbest way humanly possible but there was an afterthought that worked something like that when NATO made the decision to approach 556 cartridges. aside from logistics, weight and similar arguments they argued that 556 would usually critically wound rather than kill; said wounded man requiring two others to deal with him, thus taking three men out of the fight.

>>54205969
>21 megathule range
>I thought it's the output of a single shot.
It might be. Honestly I can't find any good definition of "range", so I went for the conservative estimate.
Having 19 or 21 MJs of energy per shot is 2spooky.

>>54206078
Or it's just a marketing speech. I mean, we got told the same thing and we got 7.62mm rifles.

>>54185621
>require no ammunition
Yeah, but they require recharge once a Terran month. Good thing the batteries can be recharged near every heat or light source.

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>>54206078
Except that's just not true at all. M193 produced much graver permanent cavitation than M80 and often blew chunks out of VCs because it was designed to split apart at the cannelure while the 7.62mm slugs tumbled at most and often overpenetrated. M855 performs similarly out of a barrel of the appropriate length and twist rate and it's only since the switch to the M4 that we've been seeing it underperform.

>>54200167
>So what is 24'' on tabletop even?
400-500m, its stabdard infantry rifle range.
48 " is around 1.5 km like a lascannon. 72 " is the battlecannons 3km and the 240" earthshaker has been mentioned to have a 15km range in fluff.

40k has a vaguely consistent but non linear weapon scaling.

>>54207295
>its standard infantry rifle range.
Where would that be?

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>>54207295
>this thing has the same range as an earthshaker

>>54207580
With rocket assistance.

But yeah the basilisk is really smallish artillery peice, the gun is only 132mm

>>54208601
but it's got future rounds of fuck you, so it's treated like a big gun

>>54185772
>bolters is the lack of recoil for the amount of lead down range they produce and that they are meant to be totally viable in zero g and vacuum environs.
What? Of course firearms work in a vacuum. Nothing special about bolters in that regard.

I get that we have to function under the laws of the universe, but if we introduced lasgun technology, the last fucking thing we'd be doing with it is using it in a gun.

The implications of the power packs is beyond belief, they break the very fundamental laws of energy. Having that as an energy source would be staggering.

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>>54208601

>>54213075
>they break the very fundamental laws of energy

Do explain.

>>54213236
Not going to bother with specifics, but the amount of energy a lasgun needs to fire per shot is pretty high in order to do the damage it does. That's fine and dandy, perfectly believable.

But the concept that a lasgun pack could be charged by solar energy or a campfire and produce those levels of energy is not. It's simply impossible for a pack that size to absorb the amount of energy it needs from the sun in any reasonable amount of time unless the sun is straight up "fucking kill everything it sees" strong, to say nothing of the energy a campfire produces(and if it had efficiency approaching 100% in terms of energy absorption, then we're talking about something else that shatters the foundations of some very important parts of science).

>>54213230
the tanks in 40k have heroic scale disproportions as well.

>>54213328
Yes, that's the less fun answer.

>>54213321
Making energy out of heat is very much used today and you have to remember heating the cell to recharge is not standard operating procedure, it's an emergency procedure that probably doesn't recharge it very well and can even damage the cell, which is why it's not advised unless absolutely necessary. Normally power cells are recharged via any number of power outlets.

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>all this lasgun wank

Lets go back to reality.

A Necron immortal grabbed a guardsmen, the panicking guardsmen put his lasgun in the face of the immortal and emptied its whole charge point blank in the immortals face. The lasgun shoots did nothing to the immortal except leave a fading reddened area on the immortal's forehead. The immortal proceeded to squeeze the guardsmen to death until the guardsmen flesh flowed like liquid between the immortals fingers.

Another example is the "Dead Man Walking" novel, Lasguns useless against the Necron warriors. They couldn't do any damage to them.

One last example is against Tau suits. As Farsight was gliding across a horde of Imperials, the las shoots that were hitting his suit weren't doing any harm at all. The worst thing they died was scrap off his suit's paint.

Lasguns are the worst weapons in 40K by far.

>>54194936
IIRC, Lasguns do have a power setting. It just effects how many shots you can put out.

>>54213438
I don't think you understand, man.

A campfire doesn't produce the kind of energy you'd need to charge a lasgun pack.

>>54205969
>>54206113
Take the numbers discussed here, 19MJs either per shot or per magazine.

Now, and I'm being lazy here because it's fucking way too late for real research, wikipedia says that a kilo of red oak has an expected energy output of 14.9MJ at 100% efficiency.

So, even on the low end of 19MJs per pack, you're talking about the fact that burning a whole kilo of wood and absorbing every single speck of energy it releases isn't enough to fill the charge pack.

Now, the concept of 100% efficiency is baffling here, beyond belief. The wood would be on fire, but there'd be no light, no heat, no nothing, because every single piece of energy coming out of that log would be going straight into the charge pack.

Now, while it's possible to achieve pretty decent efficiency values in controlled settings, a campfire isn't. So let's assume 20% efficiency, just to pick a low number that's still pretty respectable given our situation.

At that point, you're getting just about 3MJs per kilo of wood burned, so now you need 6 1/3 kilos of firewood just to charge a single power pack. Now, I don't know about you, but 14 pounds of firewood makes for a pretty fucking big fire. It's not bonfire huge, most certainly, but it's not "cook a meal over a campfire" cozy either.

And now we hit the second problem, mainly, the bigger the fire gets, the less efficient it's going to be for charging the packs, because the energy dispersion is spread over a wider area.

And this is all for a single charge pack at the low end assumption of how much energy they hold.

Now, when you start talking solar(big hint here, solar energy is incredibly inefficient), the numbers are going to get even crazier.

Fair warning: I wouldn't submit these numbers in a report, because I did the most basic of searches to find them. If I'm off I'm off.

>>54213584
>A campfire doesn't produce the kind of energy you'd need to charge a lasgun pack.

To fully recharge it, which I don't remember ever being said to be the case.

>19MJs

Megathules, not megajoules. People just change thules to joules and then argue based on that.

>>54213584
I might be way off on the weight of the firewood vs the size of the fire, but at this point I'm too tired to care.

>>54213500
Meanwhile in, say, Storm of Iron, a lasgun punched through a Marine's breastplate.

>>54213611
Does it matter? They might be changing it, but at some point we still need a point of reference for the energy it produces. We might not have an exact number, but the point is that it's a lot. And having a charge pack get that much energy from solar rays or a campfire is pretty insane.

And yes, we assume to fully charge it. Solar charging has to come from somewhere.

Furthermore, since I'm deciding to be a shithead, the logistics angle doesn't really hold up either by your reasoning. You're suggesting that plugging it into something is the main way of charging it, but that's simply moving the logistics chain to another resource. Instead of transporting ammo for the weapons, they need to transport fuel for whatever is charging these packs. And there's a shitload of energy here, remember.

>>54213620
Nightbringer has the same thing. Quite a few marines get brought down by PDF lasgun fire, and the captain takes a direct hit to the chest that almost burns through the armor in one go.

>>54213655
>Does it matter?

Well, since we don't know how much energy a "thule" is, you can't say accurately calculate it.

>that much energy

Again, nowhere does it say you charge it fully from those sources. At least in any reasonable amount of time.

>we assume to fully charge it

How about not assume it? Because right now your biggest issues seem to be the amount of energy (based on assuming thule = joule) and that the pack is charged fully.

>that's simply moving the logistics chain to another resource

So, instead of providing a thousand calibers of cartridge to a million regiments, you just need fuel. Fuel you can use for plenty of other things as well. And it doesn't even have to be a certain kind of fuel, you can have any sort of fuel that runs a generator from nuclear batteries to prometheum.

I don't know what the problem is. If I have to worry just about providing one type of resource instead of 12, I'd say that's an ease on the logistics.

>>54198450
Rick Priestly explicitly stated in an interview that he deliberately reduced the ranges of all weapons in the original 40K so that people could actually play the game on a normal sized table.

Assuming that a flamer would in reality have a similar range to an actual flamethrower, it seems reasonable to extrapolate a melta range by comparing it to the tabletop range and scaling it up accordingly

>>54197771
from what I can tell, autoguns were heavily based off what in the 80s people though "future rifles" were going to be, and fire caseless ammo (much like the experimental weapons of the time)

The 40k equivilant of modern weapons would be stubbers, with heavy stubbers even visibly resembling "modern" (now quite old) .50 caliber machine guns.

40k flakk resembles kevlar, but it is hard to make to many guesses about fantasy materials. It is presumably better in some way, lighter perhaps? Ceramite might be comparable to modern day ballistic ceramics.

But what is plasteel? is it plastic? or is it steel?

>>54199464
What sort of situation are you envisaging where a trooper is using all his charge packs in 5 minutes?

In reality, if you were in the kind of situation where your only option for recharging your ammo is to put it in a fire, then you would rotate them out. Once one pack is empty, you put it in the fire so it's charging while your other packs keep you supplied with ammo...

>>54213735
Flak can be woven into clothes and it's enough to protect you from those .50 caliber machine guns, so it's pretty sturdy and light.

>But what is plasteel? is it plastic? or is it steel?

A mix of both, I presume. It's used pretty much everywhere in Imperial construction. Might be some composite material. Ceramite as well, since it seems to have metallic properties in it. Where's pieces of fluff where they hammer out dents from ceramite plates and polished ceramite has a silver colour to it (GK armour). Then again, ceramite is also said to be grey (Knights-Errant armour) and white (DG armour). Maybe it's grey normally, silver when polisher and white when oxidized (seeing that DG don't really take care of their armour and are in contact with corrosive materials).

>>54185575
Laser weapons? Great! Let the enemy use the hell out of them!

The snipers and designated marksmen will be happy as hell that their worhtless sandnigger enemies are using weaponry thatu makes a BRIGHT RED LINE straight back to their position.

>>54185670
>Can lasriflers penetrate modern kevlar?

Canonically, a lasgun shot would not only punch through kevlar, it would explosively evaporate most of the top half of a modern soldier. Remember that these things explode arms and drill watermelon-sized holes in people when they hit unaugmented humans.

That said, they can't make up for a crippling lack of training and numbers. IS is losing now for reasons other than the quality of its armaments. Giving them amazing future guns would only provoke other countries to flatten them as quickly as possible so they can steal that sweet tech.

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>fires laser in vacuum of space
>beam isn't clear/invisible and exponentially more powerful

I'm just a high school education tier pleb and even I get autistic when I see this.

>>54213500
Wow, it's almost like Necrons are made out of super durable nanites that replicate at such a fast rate that it makes the metal look "alive" or that Tau use thermally resistant ceramics in their armor.

But hey, I can be a dishonest cunt too and claim that lasguns can one-shot a necron.

>>54213321
>>54213075
You have a narrow mind, and even weaker education.
All you say, doesn't even mean anything: All that the lore do imply, is that our narrators are unreliable, so how they perceive things are different from how they work(nuclear battery powerpacks that do nuclear cycling to recharge)

And than your next fallacy would be assuming such nuclear power packs would behave like 1945s dirty bombs, which doesn't even explode properly.

>>54214441
Other races basic weapons like the Tau pulse rifles and Eldar skuriken catapults can shred Necrons bodies.

What's the lasgun's excuse?

>>54214571
Lasguns excuse is that IMP troops are not properly trained, so they don't flip up the power switch from "Ork" to "Heavy Vehicle"
And thats another reason Lasgun is logistically good: Its a different class of weapon at different power levels

>>54214571

because a rifle firing monomolecular blades at a rate of 60,000 rounds per minute and a gun which projects high velocity unstable projectiles that turn into plasma on impact are both more scary than a pulse laser

>>54206500
Wasn't the biggest argument for 556 adoption that the standard infantryman can carry 300 rounds instead of 100 rounds of 7.62 at the same weight?

>>54215140
yes. it allowed soldiers to carry more ammo, supposedly had better ballistics, and did just enough internal damage to be viable for producing casualties. recently though some newer calibers have come out like 6.5 that bridge the gap between 5.56 and 7.62

Anyone else imagine that if lasguns did exist they would make a single loud crack on firing? Like all laser weapons firing through an atmosphere will incur lost energy, and that energy is lost as heat and light refracted off particles and molecules in the air. If the air is heated enough it would expand and create a shock sound exactly analogous to the crack of lightning. However our largest laser weapons currently in testing for missile defense on ships and airplanes (us navy mostly researching) do not make any noise like that, although atmospheric dispersion does limit their range to a few miles. Even if no sound is made on firing a lasgun there will certainly be a sound on impact. The target receives a large amount of light energy which results in rapid heating and expansion. The sudden heating will vaporize some of the target surface creating a loud crack similar to that created by a small explosion like a firecracker. Larger laser weapons like cannons will make a proportionately louder sound as more material is evulsed and vaporized creating a larger pressure wave.

>>54186858

>instant cauterizing

No. Lasguns don't burn. They basically microwave your insides instantly and create a pressure change that causes parts of you to burst.

It's way worse than being shot because you have half a torso missing.

People claiming that lasguns operate like lasers need to read novels. Lasguns operate by flash cooking the shit they hit so it's basically like super heating them instantly. It's why lasguns have next to no penetration to armour but can explode limbs and blast chunks of concrete from a wall.

>>54195524
It has to do with it being lighter than 7.62. In firefights the side who has more ammo tends to do better, and you can carry a fair bit more 5.56 as your combat load.
t. 2nd LT

>>54215228
>Anyone else imagine that if lasguns did exist they would make a single loud crack on firing? Like all laser weapons firing through an atmosphere will incur lost energy, and that energy is lost as heat and light refracted off particles and molecules in the air. If the air is heated enough it would expand and create a shock sound exactly analogous to the crack of lightning
thats the cannon reason why they make a crack noise in 40k.

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>>54185575
>how would they change modern warfare
They would certainly make /k/ storytime threads a lot funnier. Imagine the sorts of retarded shenanigans /40k/ommandos could pull off.

>>54215282
>It's why lasguns have next to no penetration to armour but can explode limbs and blast chunks of concrete from a wall.

That sounds like a laser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knajscxEpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3YCACZQ72Q

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The realistic rpg called phoenix command have a scifi book that has laserguns and can be used with phonix command rules.

Here is how a lasergun compare with ak47

>>54185575
ISIS would be utterly fucked, because every other nation and military in the world would see them waving around undeniable proof of the existence of a kind and loving god of logistics, and promptly stomp the fuck out of ISIS to take their lasguns.

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>>54213791
I would think ceramite is white normally, and then a shiny silver when polished or perhaps mixed with something.

>>54219303
Then how do you explain the grey (unpainted ceramite) of Knights-Errant? Oh, and one of the HH books shows a field repaired MkIII with straight up factory parts in their unpainted, off the assembly line status, and they're also grey.

>>54219586
]gw lore isn't consistent

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>>54219303
GW isn't crazy clear on that. Because, as you have pictured, ceramite paint is white.

However, in the fluff Grey Knights have unpainted armor and it's silver.

>>54219705
yeah I think trying to analyze GW lore isn't the most productive use of time for that reason

>A las-pulse will shear through flesh producing a cauterised hole surrounded by blister-burns. When first striking flesh, a las-pulse will cause a flash-burn effect upon impact, as the heat of the discharge causes the immediate surface area of the target to be vaporised. This can, to the untrained eye, take on the same wound aspects as those produced by high density explosives, but there are major differences when it comes to field dressing las-wounds. While the brief exploding flash of initial contact is highly visible, it is rarely the major concern of aid givers. It is typically the continuing projection of the las-beam boring into the body that causes the most extensive damage - the beam will puncture through any internal organs and is capable of severing limbs.

-Official rulebook fluff

>>54219705
I guess it's like titanium, where titanium is silver but it's also used (dioxide, I think?) as a really, really bright white? Titanium white is a thing.

>>54214571
>What's the lasgun's excuse?
There's seventeen trillion billion floating around the galaxy.

>>54219855
So its a multi pulse laser weapon? With each pulse being a high impact explosive? Where after a number of weaker pulses, there is a bigger one? Followed by smaller ones to achive organ damage or further penetration?

Sounds metal.

>>54222326
Each shot could be a series of pulses nanoseconds apart, each burning a little deeper into the target. I seem to recall seeing a video of a real life mining laser (at least a prototype), which did something like that, firing pulses very rapidly (basically a continuous beam to an observer), each vaporizing a little bit of the rock before the next pulse hit.

I also think Imperial laser weapons use some sort of a gas medium to modify the beam, something we have today. It would explain how the barrel gets heated. If it's a tube filled with a gas designed to alter the laser, then the laser passing through it would heat the gas, which in turn would heat its vessel, the barrel.

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>>54222420
In the far future where there is ONLY WAR,
there exists programable Laser Rifles of such power,
That those rifles can be calibrated against each type of enemy
But isn't, because that would be tech heresy

>>54185575
Well, if they worked the way physics demands that they should, they'd be very powerful against people, since they'd they'd literally make people explode, assuming atmospheric interference doesn't either bleed off too much of the energy, diffuses the beam too much, or causes other problems.

Of course, they wouldn't do well against even the simplest of body armors. It's possible to make stuff very heat resistant.

As statted by the game and described by the fluff though, they'd mostly see gains in reliability and logistical easing; a modern U.S. infantryman is usually supposed to carry 210 rounds when out on a mission, and most will carry more. A lasgun can achieve that with a couple of powerpacks at far lighter weight, which frees up more carrying capacity for other stuff.

>>54213721
Thats a sign of a poor game designer.
Instead of abstracting the problem away, you misrepresent what you want to make, making all stats useless for representation.

>>54222640
Triplex Phall pattern lasguns (which used to be the standard issue one, as seen on pretty much all 2e guard models) have variable power settings. Others do too.

On the other hand, variable settings are sure to make the guns more complex, and giving troopers the ability to switch it around would certainly lead to dudes having different settings from one another and making them burn through cells at different rates and up maintenance when dudes just blast with the highest setting and wear out their guns.

>>54185575
A lasgun is equivalent to a 50 cal bullet from what I remember. A bolter is a explosive 75 cal bullet.

A lasgun can also blow a person's limb off at closer range as well.

>>54185621
Lasguns may be weak to bolters but their given power in fluff and nerdy statistics make them significantly more powerful than any small arms we have today, on par or slightly above .50 BMG and 12.7mm.

>>54224423
>>54224445
This. Lasguns alone would revolutionize warfare. Lasguns are more accurate and precise than Bolters, much lighter and cheaper, very durable and reliable, and pack a punch that only our real-world's strongest anti-material rounds can provide in terms of small weapons.

The common /k/omparison made back in the day was "Lasguns are rifles with the power of a .50 cal and the recoil of an airsoft gun."

>>54199519
Cadian blood.

To be fair though I think it was a stormtroopers hotshot not a regular las rifle, and they hit the death guard in the eye.

>>54224025
That is abstracting the problem away. Pretty much every wargame does it, for the same reasons.

>>54224556
I think it was a hotshot, but at full power lasguns can slice through the joints in the armor of SMs/CSMs like butter, and I think "like butter" is a term actually used in a fluff book somewhere. Even the weaker laspistol can also kill an Ork instantly with an eyeshot and in a few headshots on its standard setting.

The downside though is a mix of overheating and literally burning through your magazine almost instantaneously though, but it's true that with its power settings a lasgun can be on-par with a bolter and a hotshot can be superior to even Tau weaponry, so long as you have the power packs to sustain them.

>>54224423
Lasguns aren't 50 cal equivalent.

They've always been depicted as comparable to Autoguns, which other than being caselessvare much the same as our modern assault or battle rifles.

Limb removal is basically a consequence of the wider but shallower wounds it causes.

>>54224760

No, I distinctly remember Lasgun shots being compared to .50 calibre rounds and Bolters being compared to .75 calibre rounds.

>>54224799
Thats fan wank. Fluff its alwats been autohun level.


Bolters actually are .75 cal, though their rounds are rocket assisted as well.

>>54192770
>If we assume a megathule is the same thing as our megajoule, you'd have exactly 1.266 (repeating) trillion joules per shot.
>GW and numbers... not even once.

You're a retard.

>>54224799
Bolter rounds are dimensions of .75 cal, but as fluff shows: Their workings are not like it, being gyrojets on steroids with warheads on them.
The same is even more true for Stubbers and Autoguns.

For Lasguns its even more obvious: There might be a .5 cal setting somewhere, for a spesific pattern, but that really doesn't mean anything for a adjustable energy weapon, where the battery is occasionally used as makeshift 40k Grenades.

>>54215228
I've always assumed they made a crack sound, similar to a bull whip, while larger guns like lascannons would sound like a thunderclap.

>>54191296
Soviet invasion of manchuria, cutting Japan off form 60% of their industrial output and 80% of their synthetic fuel production.

>>54226580
Why not a bass pulse sound?

>>54230069
the crack comes form the air in the path of the beam being superheated and essentially exploding.

>>54230215
Assuming lasguns are actually lasers, the air would not be heated. The laser would not strike anything in air with enough mass or opacity to create significant heat. The only thing being heated is what the lazer is directly hitting. You would probably hear a very high pitched whine of capacitors discharging, assuming that was even in the human range of hearing. It is just as likely to be completely silent save for the sound of what ever is struck being heated to a thousand degrees isntantly.

>>54224760
>depicted as comparable to Autoguns

Though autoguns have a high rate of fire while lasguns tend to fire single shots. So on individual shot basis a lasgun shot is equal to a burst or two from an autogun. Same with single-shot laspistols vs. SMG autopistols. And lasguns used to have same ASM as bolters.

>>54185762
>>54191267
>>54230310
>>54226445
>>54224760
>>54213735
>>54206048
>>54199467
>>54199519
>All this comparison to the Autogun and modern assault rifles


The advantage of the Lasgun is not being superior in combat to an autogun or regular assault rifle. The advantage is that:

A: one power-pack can last between combats without restocking because you can recharge it with sunlight.

B The complete lack of recoil and speed of projectile (it literally moves at the speed of light) means you can put it in the hands of a regular schmuck, and they basically need no training to use it well enough. "Pull the triger when it's pointed at what you want to get hit by laser" is enough. That's not to say that the conscript-schmuck is going to be as good as a trained soldier, but the ammount of training time to become "good enough" is WAAAAY lower. The same way that muskets made it possible train lots of peasants to form a gunline rather than taking the same amount of training resources to make one badass knight/samurai, the lasgun allows you to make a gunline without even having to bother with basic marksmanship: it's fucking duck-hunt. Training is a resource, arguably one of the most expensive ones in modern warfare, and while a lasgun-wall is never going to fill all the battlefield roles a well-trained small-unit (who themselves will gain little from moving to a lasgun, save perhaps the ability to operate independently for longer periods due to solar-rechargable-ammo,) it only requires the resources to conscript a schmucks and put the guns in their hands to create. If anything, the much-feared conscript-blob of 40k8th actually represents this pretty accurately.


TLDR: Horde of child-soldiers with lasguns is an actual threat instead of just a psychological weapon.

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>>54232117
>Mention advantages
>Doesn't mention adjustable power settings or using the battery pack as a anti fortification explosive