Why is it our responsibility to cater to new players? Why should

>>54155007
something something normies something big bang theory and roasties something else something reeeeee.

It isn't. Some fag on the internet who happened to have the last word in an image you saved doesn't dictate how your group works. I know I would just lend someone dice and ask them to not use their phone

It's nobody's responsibility to cater to anyone. However, gatekeeping people and having a false sense of elitism about a fucking hobby not only keeps newcomers from enjoying the hobby, but makes the whole community more toxic and stigmatizes it in people's eyes. That kind of toxicity has no place in any hobby, and if you cling to a false sense of superiority over other players, you're just scared that it won't be your special niche hobby anymore. Grow up.

Say it with me: DICE ROLLED ARE LESS RANDOM THAN RNG FUNCTIONS.

You wanna do shit in a way that takes longer and is worse at its job than the way I do it go for it... but go jump off a cliff if you think you can push that shit on me.

>>54155120
Lies and misinformation.

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>>54155007
There is no need to be upset

>>54155007
As I said in the previous thread you posted this BS, no matter of your whining will make me use physical dice for my 64d6 damage roll whenever I hit someone.

>>54155007
people taking a god damn game way too seriously. End of story

>>54155120
That's the point, dork.


I don't want total random, I want to be responsible for my rolls

>>54155120
That is an absolute statement. Most RNG isn't, it's psuedo-random number generation built on tending towards the middle. There may be programs that this is not the case, but I haven't looked into it. In most cases the number distribution isn't going to be noticeable unless you're rolling hundreds of times per session.

>>54155007
Why do you search the internet for stuff to make yourself mad?

>>54155258
>it's psuedo-random number generation built on tending towards the middle.
Except you take it modulo whatever your die size is, so that tendency disappears.

>>54155184
Translated: I like to cheat.

The whole purpose of rolling dice is to randomize the output anon. Try loosening that helmet - it might be cutting off your supply of oxygen to the brain.

>>54155007
>Why is it our responsibility to cater to new players? Why should we bend rules and conventions to fit their tastes?
Honestly? Corporate profits. It's being pushed by game companies who want to sell more so that they can make a living out of publishing RPGs.

>>54155120
>but go jump off a cliff if you think you can push that shit on me.
i wouldn't force it on you, you can always leave. when I GM, I set the rules.

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>>54155007

Being nice to people is nice. Being an asshole to people is shitty. Your elaborate justifications for being an asshole do not make you less of an asshole. In fact, they make it worse.

It has nothing to do with "new players." You do not have to game with anyone. If you do chose to game with someone, you have to collaborate. It's a cooperative hobby. If your personal preferences are so rigid that you can't accept anyone else's way of doing things, you will wind up without a group, and that's your fault.

>>54155306
>Reinventing the fluff and crunch
>Reinventing the crunch.
Movement stats, AP modifiers, Psyker with very few powers... it's more like Groundhog day, anon.

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>>54155120

>>54155325
Anon, you do understand why, say, you roll for your own character, right? If the roll is random, it shouldn't matter who rolls it. But you still want to be the one doing it, so that in the end if it fails or succeeds, you know you're the one who did it and you got nobody else to blame. If you put it down to a machine you just press a button on, then you you're that much more removed from the actual roll. Might as well let anyone press the button.

>>54155007
If it's a new campaign, I'm open to new ideas as long as new people are willing to listen to the voice of experience.
If the new person is joining an existing game, then they need to play along. I would, of course, make this clear before they start.
I prefer starting a new campaign for new people in any case, so it doesn't come up much.

>>54155151
Oh neat, so you've examined that code for accuracy?

>>54155350
Good answer

>>54156281
No, not really. That makes me care about "catering" to anyone even less.

>>54155007
We had this exact thread yesterday, fuck off.

>>54155080
>However, gatekeeping people and having a false sense of elitism about a fucking hobby not only keeps newcomers from enjoying the hobby
Who cares? Tabletop gaming isn't and has never been wanting for players, especially with the internet, all you need are more than 10 people globally to play your system of choice and you can find a game.
>makes the whole community more toxic and stigmatizes it in people's eyes
Who cares what people outside the hobby think about it? And "toxicity" is a meme for people who pretend nerd rage hasn't defined all hobby shit since always.
>That kind of toxicity
There's that word again.
>has no place in any hobby, and if you cling to a false sense of superiority over other players, you're just scared that it won't be your special niche hobby anymore.
Being loudly anti-"elitist" is just a new way of signalling that you're the big mature man who knows it's "just a game." Stop being salty everyone else isn't ironically detached from the quality of the communities they participate in.
>Grow up.
Again, your supposed position of compassion for newcomers is just you jerking your nerd peen in the anti-nerd way that's currently trendy. Grow up.

>>54155439
>You do not have to game with anyone. If you do chose to game with someone, you have to collaborate. It's a cooperative hobby. If your personal preferences are so rigid that you can't accept anyone else's way of doing things, you will wind up without a group, and that's your fault.

The same can be said of the person who's always rolled dice digitally and can't accept someone wants to roll physical ones. Cooperative doesn't mean "roll over to everything the other side wants", regardless if they're new or been here forever.

>>54155120
>DICE ROLLED ARE LESS RANDOM THAN RNG FUNCTIONS.

Not to any degree that matters outside of professional gambling. All else is autism.

>>54155080
You people always seem to care more about what people think of the hobby than the hobby itself.

>>54157423
A hobby lives and thrives on the people playing it and bringing in new blood to further it.
When the hobby becomes static, it dies.

>>54156232
Do you test all your dice for even distribution of results?

>>54156832
That does mean you come to a compromise.
Assholes refuse to compromise.

>>54157542

When the hobby becomes casualized to the point where it no longer resembles what it was originally, it dies.

If you want to play with giggling, Cards Against Humanity playing retards screaming "praise kek!", who have no attention span for anything that takes longer to read than an image macro, then be my guest. It's not illegal to be a pleb. But don't expect the patricians to follow you.

>>54157612
>do you want dogshit for dinner, anon?
>well actually I'd rather have steak
>dogshit and beef it is then
>sure am glad we comprimised, I wouldn't want to be an asshole!

>>54157620
>muh secret club
>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

yeah eat a bag of dicks

>>54157636
>makes greentext post that is completely insensible and makes no point outside how much an idiot the poster is
Fortunately, we can both agree you are a moron, so we can move on.

>>54157620
>hur cahualls!
The moment you need to hedge your argument on such a thing is the moment you have made it clear you have nothing to offer.
But then, take your argument to WHF. It's a great example of a game that discouraged new blood and innovation, refusing to change or adopt new ideas.
And it's as dead as it gets.

>>54155007
>here's a hot opinion
>here's a single reddit screen cap as evidence

>>54155007
Shut the fuck up OP, play your fucking game, and stop caring what the fuck others think you god damn autistic beta shit lord.

I've always bent things to my tastes, and trying to emulate a rules programm was always a timesink and never felt good. No mystical "game as intended" sprang from those efforts, so saying fuck it and doing whatever I want is my m.o.

Keep to your skirmish games, rogue-likes and osr, OP, you're the faggiest of fags.

All this is represented in the implied Rule Zero and Rule Negative One

Rule Negative One: If there are no players, then there can be no game

Rule Zero: What the GM says is what you'll be playing by, sonny jim.

Also, while I can see the convenience of using an electronic dice roller, I actually prefer using physical dice, mostly because I like hunting down aesthetically pleasing dice from gaming shops. Sure, it's only $2 for a clear d20, but unlike a PHB, that sort of thing is the bread and butter for FLGS.

Besides, It's kinda fun to track down an ash-translucent dice, not to mention buying d12s so that they don't cry themselves to sleep while waiting to be bought. If my GM will allow me, I'd use a d12 instead of 2d6.

If a GM tried to force me to use an electronic dice roller OFFLINE, then I'd seriously consider leaving. I have two leather pouches FILLED with dice and am willing to lend the ones I'm not using to newbs. You need to at least encourage newbs, as you too were once a newb, even if it was back at your fathers/mothers knee as they initiated you into the hobby of /traditional gaming/. A hobby lives and dies by how many people practice it.

That said, If you are playing DnD, there's no real reason to soften things up, provided you are running the campaign from L1, as L1 to about L6 or so are basically the tutorial levels. Once your arcane caster can clear out an entire room with one spell, you'll know that the tutorial is over.

>>54157676
>>54157649
>ur stoopid xD

Nice argument, champ.

So I take it you can't refute having your own logic turned against you, so you're just hurling names now? Got it. Stay casual bro.

>>54157704
>one word
>one game
>checkmate atheists xD

Sorry kid, but that's not an argument. It's a shitpost.

>>54156703
>Sociopathy, the post

>>54155007
I just don't like dice apps because we all roll openly at my table, and that's much harder to do with a phone. It also means you have your phone out. Put that shit away and borrow some of my unnecessarily large dice collection.

>>54155007
Why's this thread back?

Didn't we have this exact post just a few days ago?

>>54155140
Sorry to say it is truth.

Random algorithms can have far more stringent fairness/uniformity requirements than your dinky dice with defects from production tolerances.

And aside from purposely built cheat apps, the general dice app that can be found is more fair than standard dice.

>>54157636
Nice false equivalence. If you think pRNG programs are like eating shit it's a wonder you haven't killed yourself.

>>54155271
Depends if the number of outcomes from the RNG process don't map to the outcomes of the dice rolls.

A simple Modulo will not give fair results unless these are integer multiples of one another. (but it is also most likely to only give a tiny bias, and can be avoided)

>>54155140
>>54155007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Y0loGqarI

https://www.awesomedice.com/blog/649/do-transparent-dice-roll-better/

>>54158672
>Sorry kid, but that's not an argument. It's a shitpost.
That sounds like this thread.

>>54155120
>Say it with me: DICE ROLLED ARE LESS RANDOM THAN RNG FUNCTIONS.

I dont know what RNG functions youre talking about but thats just not true, in fact its all most the complete opposite of the truth.

>>54159759
Eh... depends on how you look at it.

Sure in a fundamental way it is deterministic, but that honestly doesn't matter at all if you can't realistically predict the next outcome.

And ignoring their determinism, RNG functions are generally far more uniform and unbiased than are physical dice.

>>54155155
>no matter of your whining will make me use physical dice for my 64d6 damage roll whenever I hit someone.

None of your whining is going to stop me from kicking you out of my game for that shit.

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Just use physical dice for you d20 rolls and electronic for your 20d8 smite from the heavens. Chances are any player at the table has a fuckton of dice to lend to the new guy. Why is this even a big deal?

>>54155007
>Why is it our responsibility to cater to new players?

As a DM I would always try to accomodate the players' wishes (where reasonable) in order to ensure that everyone is having fun.

>>54155007
I never really got this argument to be honest. I got into the things I liked because they appealed to me. Making them more popular by watering it down or simplifying it just attracts people who aren't into it.

>>54160725
Hush, they're trying to establish dominance!

>>54155007
>did you have respect for established conventions and actually learn them before changing them or creating your own?
Are you kidding? I was trying to make My own RPG game before I really had a grasp of how they worked, only succeed in making a holy-oaken mess than anything even remotely playable, but I had a good time and so did my friends.

Honestly you just sound like some elitist prick who's probably not as popular with his friends than he thinks.

>>54155007
Normies shouldn't stay normies and while you shouldn't compromise your game to make them happy, you also shouldn't push them away by being an ass

>>54155007
Because we:
A. Want more people to play
B. Aren't cunts

>>54155007

While I agree with the overall sentiment that the hobby is being increasingly dumbed down for the lowest common denominator normie, NAT 20 , crit role, game of thrones , audience. This is a pretty bad example of that . I know plenty of grognards who use digital rollers and I do so myself as a GM as it allows me to roll entirely in secret.

>>54155007
Because GAMES are about having FUN.
It's not about justifying your meek existence by puffing yourself up as a venerable rules-lawyer.

Shitty people like you perpetuate the antisocial stereotype of the classic intolerant basement dwelling nerd and drive players away from the very games and genres you so dilligently "defend".

are you we fucking autists really arguing about using digital or real dices?
there is next to no fucking difference.Just let each player use whatever he/she likes.The difference is minimal.

The only issue i can think of would be visibility issues and possible distraction by using your phone for other things, but that shoulnd't apply to people above 17, hopefully.
A phone in the middle of the table might even be more visible than most dices, especially my autismal D20 that have a dragon painted around each number.

>>54162758
The only reason this non-issue came up is because someone on Critical Roll advocated it, and anything critical roll likes must be satan because normies and bad roleplay

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>>54155007

>>54159495
He remakes them constantly. It's the same faggot who keeps posting those "why do you still play d20" threads.

>>54155120
Dice are more fun. Seriously, the only reason to go pen and paper over digital is the tactile experience.

>>54155007
Why should new players cater to you and your ridiculous hangups anon?

>>54162758
>>54162782
That and OP is a fag.

>>54163154
This opinion is factually correct.

>>54155007
This shit is why most of the people on /tg/ don't actually play games. They just complain about them instead.

>>54163154
Well, that and the socialising aspect.
Surprisingly, people talk easier to each other if they're in the same room.

>>54155007

I try to be a good person and help players pick up the game. I have no problem explaining rules or story, even helping them roleplay.

However, I'm honestly being pushed to the limit. We have an awesome DM, a phenomenal DM. The guy spends half his workday making material (He's a higher rank, he can get away with it), and printing out aids and resources, watching videos on acting and DMing to be a better DM.

The problem is his wife.

She wouldn't let him play because it interrupted with their time together. So, he decided that she'd play with us. We've all been there to try to teach her the game and the world, but she legitimately does not even try. She constantly complains about any action not centered on herself. She literally threw a damn shoe at me last session for trying to fight the entire society we live in. Seriously at my wits end, can't play with her, but we can't play without her.

>>54155007
>When you started playing /tg/ hobbies, did you try to bend things to fit what you wanted, or did you have respect for established conventions and actually learn them before changing them or creating your own?

The first one, because it's a fucking hobby and I'm going to do it whichever way is the most fun for me. I'm not joining an organization with some kind of actual function whose traditions provide stability and reliability in its ability to perform that function, I'm playing a game of make believe, and I'm going to make that believe however the Hell I want.

>>54163154
The only correct answer

>>54155120
I agree, but unless you dig up some seriously crooked dice the intrinsic openness of a dice roll is far more important to me than the improvement in randomness.

>>54155080
>stigmatizes it in people's eyes.

the eyes of people you shouldn't want playing, so nothing of value is lost

>>54155184
Exactly this. You lose the personal touches when you digitize randomising - dice rituals, personalised throwing techniques.

It's like how in MTG digital decks can't be mana weaved.

>>54161836
>Want more people to play

if you can't find players without lowering your standards you get what you deserve

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>>54155516
>wants less randomness when he rolls his dice so he feels responsible

what do we call an outcome of a roll that is meant to be random, but the player uses a method that is less random?

you shouldnt feel responsible for a dice roll, if you actually were we would call that cheating.

>>54165816

If you have to lower your standards to find players, your "standards" are probably some whiny grognard bullshit. You can have an opinion on dice being better or worse than digital, but it's a really stupid thing to get upset about.

In my experience, the "we have to protect the hobby from the newbs!" people are terrible to play with. New players can be taught, old assholes are set in their ways.

>>54164038
From my experience you've got 3choices.
Leave.
Suck it up.
Or escalate everything. By which i mean open their whole relationship to massive doubt and bombardememt,by asking why she wont just leave him his "he-time".
And srsly asking how old are you and when did they marry? Sounds like 23yo highschoolsweetheart bullshit

>>54165780
mana weaving is stacking the deck and should get you banned

>>54165780
Mana weaving is literally cheating and you'd be banned for life doing it in a tournament setting

>>54167035
>>54166955
Explain how sorting a deck before it is shuffled twice then cut is in any way going to impact the final positioning of cards.

It is a superstition that people do, and once the deck is properly shuffled it may as well have not been done.

>>54165909
Dice apps are not truly randon, moron.

>>54167203
Nor are most rounded dice... soooo I have yet to see your point.

>>54155007
Why do you care?

>>54166893
>Sounds like 23yo highschoolsweetheart bullshit
>t. beta fuck who married a used up whore at age 27

>>54167035
>>54166955
>tfw you manaweave at FNM all the time and haven't been caught years later

Just do it in the bathroom, it's not hard. Only dropped one card in the toilet so far and it was a common. There is nothing wrong with mana weaving.

>>54160893
>Implying he has friends and is not that just wierd dude that invites himself
Anyway you ar right, the best part about RPGs is making them yourself and hombrewing them and shit, RPG is all about creating a story and creating mechanics to go with it, you cannot forbid players to do new shit in a game about creativity ffs

>>54162555
Whats wrong with ASOIF though? I enjoyed the books, didnt watch the series as Im that dude that always scream about how different is shit between TV and book versions

>>54163626
/tg/ the board made up of people that dont play tabletop games

>>54166893
Sounds like she's trying to make game time miserable to the point her husband has to choose pussy or nerding around to me.

>>54166893
Oh god those peps that marry when they are 20 and divorce 5 years later, brings me the keks

I started playing in the mid 90's. I was six years old and wanted to play a six year old half-elf. The adults I played with were more than happy to accommodate that. Their willingness to be supportive and to compromise when needed started what has been twenty years of wonder. They were friends, and treated me, the new player, as a friend.

I will go out of my way to accommodate my players when reasonable, especially new players. I've been doing it for over a decade, and will continue to do so. Anything less and my old DM might come back to haunt me.

>>54166893
>23yo
>highschoolsweetheart bullshit
I thought there was an upper age limit to this shit.

>>54169108
How is that any different than the peps who marry at 30 and divorce 5 years later?

>>54163154
he's right, you know

>>54169712
I just thought about a couple that married after high school and stopped developing emotionaly. These kind of pay-attention-to-me or be miserable games are common in emotionaly crippled people.

>>54167074
It's either a waste of time or cheating.
I don't think about it too much because nobody around me does it anymore, but for heaven's sakes if you're that concerned about your cards sticking together just buy some sleeves. They make shuffling so much easier.

>>54168808
>>54169071
Kinda like that. Her behaviour is on the level of a 16yo and that's why questioning her intentions in this sabotage would most likely crash down on player-anon

>>54167753
His point is if the machine is making the roll, then they're not engaged. You might as well be playing a video game.

>>54155007
But they are wrong sir. Computer programs can be manipulated without anyone else being able to prove so.

It's obvious when it's a die. Especially a mass produced one. The weight will always be different with a loaded die no matter what you do.

who cares?

why would anyone care how you generate your random number? why would anyone make that image? why would anyone save it? why would anyone make this shitty thread?

is this literally what you stay up at night thinking about? other people aren't playing the game you want to play it and you want to prove they're wrong?

what the shitting fuck is rotten inside your skull?

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>>54155007

Because capitalism desires bodies, and there's plenty of people running this shit as a business. You might not like it, but it does get more D&D books sold.

I'd say just make your peace with being called a gatekeeper. If it's any consolation it is the right thing to do; when a club is too easy to enter, it's also too easy to leave, and too easy to care about.

>>54157636
why is it always about food?

>>54168831
Kek

>>54173454
How can you even play the game without sleevs???

>Player wanted to use an app
>After ten nat20s and no roll below 15+ I told him to use dice
>Fucker complains
Sorry, but that shit is loaded, or you programmed it or whatever, in 4 hours you didn't fucking roll below 15 and you expect me to believe you aren't cheating?