>the villain is an evil not-Catholic pope Should I say anything?

>>54116766
Nigga, are you serious? How many times has this been done in RPGs, vidya, novels, etc already? Doing the good grace of assuming this isn't just a crappy bait thread to waste your and everyone else's time for (you)s, no you shouldn't be so sensitive. This doesn't even have to come from the CC itself, this could just come from secondary media which have used this plot.

>>54116766
Can we get some examples of what he's done? This could really go either way.

>>54116766
>you're not allowed to have evil religious people because of muh fees fees
kys

>>54116766
Ignore this guy: >>54116782
If its starting to affect your enjoyment of the game and making you feel personally uncomfortable at the table, take your GM aside at some point and have a polite conversation about it. He might not change his mind, but he might be a bit more mindful in his approach.

>>54116766
>make your character a good not-Catholic
>use game events to spur your character towards reforming the structure of not-Catholicism towards the ideals it represents
If your GM's a cunt he'll do something to show nomatter how good you are, your not-Catholic leaning and desire to preserve the faith will destroy you. This will prove he is a cunt and you can leave without worry.

If your GM is down with you Making Not-Catholicism Great Again you good.

>>54116806
That wasn't quite an unmitigated success in reality.

>>54116798
So far, we've had the selling of indulgences/robbing the poor, inquisition/witch hunts, and murdering scientists.

The "good guys" are lead by a DMPC who keeps trying to explain that religion is just a tool to oppress people, that organized religion can only do evil, and that killing the pope is not enough, we need to kill all the cardinals as well.

>>54116766

I kind of wish we had more evil Muslim villains, myself. Those are basically tailored-made for a Chaotic Evil, demon-worshipping cult.

I've used them for the main antagonist, and my players thought I was overdoing it.

>>54116766
Historically speaking, there have been plenty of Popes who were complete assholes - there's a reason why a lot of Medieval art concerning Hell actually shows a number of Popes there.

How is the GM at showing other members of the religion? Is there a suggestion that the religion is the source of the problem, or is it just this one guy and his cronies?

I'm an atheist, but I got over my "rah-rah religion evil" phase a long time ago once I realized that a) humans are bastards and, if not for religion, would just find some other reason to kill each other, and b) for any terrible thing that religion has done, you can find at least one example of a good thing religion has done. It's positively affected the lives of millions of people. Who am I to deny them whatever comforts them, as long as they don't harm others pursuing it?

I mean, except Scientology. I reserve the right to still be an asshole about that.

My point is that if you feel it's a major problem, then just talk to your GM about it.

>>54116806
I was inclined to suggest this first, but I sense that if you do this then the GM might begin to feel that you're trying to "ruin his campaign". It's passive-aggressive, is my point.

Just talk to your GM like an adult. Maybe suggest to him, directly, that your character become a good not!Catholic to serve as a counterpoint to the evil not!Pope and show that even if the head of the religion is a dick, the religion CAN still do good.

Whatever you do, don't make it a personal religious debate, however - instead, just respond to any attempt with "I respect your views on religion, I'm just asking for you to respect mine and realize that your not!Catholicism is making me uncomfortable since it's been solely depicted as evil, and I'm just requesting that you allow me to play a character that displays its good aspects."

If he still tries to draw you into a religious debate after that and "convert" you to atheism, then abandon ship.

>>54116861
>and murdering scientists.
This one never even happened in real life. The others are often taken out of context or relayed in the most extreme possible ways.

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You know what you do?
Fuck it. Become a cleric. Have aims to become the new Pope. Lead the Church to a glorious age of goodness and prosperity should you succeed, or die trying to rid the church of a corrupting influence that does not represent the tenants of your faith.

>>54116862
Nah, man, not Muslims. Mohammedans.

What? Isn't that just the same thing, only with a misleading name?

Well, technically, but...Medieval Europeaners didn't have a huge understanding of the Muslim religion, and through cultural osmosis, half-remembered features, and so on, there kind of developed a consensus version of what Islam was *really* like in places like England, France, the Holy Roman Empire, and so on - places that rarely saw interaction with Muslims to any real extent (obviously these rumors and myths were somewhat less common in, say, Iberia or the Byzantine Empire).

There's some pretty good stuff there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termagant

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>>54116861
>and murdering scientists.
Literally never happened. He's probably rolling with the house arrest of Galileo, which only happened because he was a massive dongle at the Pope and wouldn't back down from being a cockgobbler when he got told to tone it the fuck down.

Also this: >>54116908

Launch your own inquisition. Become the purifying flame of righteousness and cleans the Lord's House of rot.

>>54116903
Hell, they didn't even kill Galileo. They gave him a slap on the wrist for his first judgement, basically telling him "fuck off with that heliocentrism bullshit", and basically just keeping him in house arrest in his cushy villa for his second judgement.

I mean it was still an unfair judgement for someone who was eventually proven right, but nigga got off easy.

>>54116861
The only one of those which is out of the ordinary is the outright murdering of scientists - usually they were just forced to recant their vows. Indulgences were sold, things like auto-da-fes did happen.

>>54116766
If you don't want to turn this into a religious debate, just suggest that you want to see a different kind of villain for once, because this is getting boring and predictable.

>>54116862
>>54116766
Is this the thing where multiple /pol/niggers try to open le overtone window and just have a religion bitching thread on an unrelated board?

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>>54116908
This.

>>54116861
>killing scientist
So he's running a campaign on the "oppressive Catholic Church" meme instead of actual historical abuses? Ditch that retard.

>>54116992
Its worth pointing out that the Vatican Inquisition and the Spanish Inquisition, were very different institutions and the Spanish Inquisition fell under the authority of the Spanish crown rather than the Holy See.

>>54117002
I don't know whether or not you're trying to be antagonizing with that picture. You do know what it's depicting, right?

>>54116998

Dude, you don't have to be /pol/ to go "Oh man, those Islamic fundamentalists are really awful people."

Does going "Man, fuck ISIS. Those people are fucking assholes" make you a racist?

>>54117021
>I don't know whether or not you're trying to be antagonizing with that picture.
Holy shit tell me you're not OP. If you're still sensitive about Martin Luther in the 21st fucking century hell yes you are being too sensitive.

If it's not actually catholicism stop being a triggered little bitch. Big evil religious groups are a normal thing in fantasy worlds. Stop trying to be a victim, stop whining, and just play the damn game or don't.

>>54117021
One of the church reformatories? It's not the Husshite one because he's not on fire, but besides that I don't know who specifically.

>>54117021
It's of Martin Luthor, a guy who tried to reform the Catholic Church for the better. It's not like he's posting Mohammed or something.

>>54116766

You should actually totally mention it to him. If you're not allowed to criticize Islam, you shouldn't be allowed to criticize the Catholic faith either.

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>>54117002
Clever, but you'll have to be stabbed for that.

>>54117020
Sure but let's not pretend the Vatican Inquisition never tortured and murdered anybody. Look at the Cathars.

>>54117021
I'm the guy he's responding to, but going full Luther would also be a fun idea. Probably would end up splintering the church rather than causing reform, but it'd be pretty baller to play as not-Luther.

>>54117021
>getting triggered by Martin Luther.

yeah fuck that guy for trying to change a broken system.

>>54116980

You mean 'ragheads' or 'haijis', right?

>>54117049
>>54117040
Martin Luther was a fanatic that triggered one of the bloodiest pre-20th century conflicts in European history because of his antics.

>>54117055
>If you're not allowed to criticize Islam
????

This really is this shit isn't it >>54116998. Why would you not be allowed to run a pseudo-Islam as the villain in your game?

>>54117025
Of course not. However, that's not what happened here, >>54116862. No mention was made of ISIS or the like, just that "[Muslims] are basically tailor-made for being a Chaotic-Evil, demon-worshipping cult."

That's /pol/ bait. And no, it doesn't necessarily mean that the person is from /pol/ trying to bait us, it just means that "this is bait, in a manner that is recognized as being a typical tactic of /pol/."

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>>54116903
>the most extreme possible ways.

That's basically what's going on. Rich people are essentially using indulgences to purchase sins while everyone else is being tithed in order to keep them oppressed, all while the inquisition tortures and murders with almost comical degrees of sadism.

>>54116884
>Historically speaking, there have been plenty of Popes who were complete assholes

True, but what we're dealing with is Hyper-Hitler and Super-Stalin's lovechild in a dress, with the emphasis that all religious leaders are like him.

>How is the GM at showing other members of the religion?
They're either terrified and unwilling, or super evil and devout.

>Is there a suggestion that the religion is the source of the problem
That's actually been flat-out stated by several NPCs.

>Whatever you do, don't make it a personal religious debate
That's my dilemma, because it is personal for both of us, and the only ways to really avoid hurting his feelings is either to let him continue or to come up with some other excuse and leave the game.

>>54117073
OK OP you are officially a little bitch.

>>54117078

Not that guy, but they're the same thing.

>>54117049
I'd give you shit, but he started off on the right path, and the counter--reformation was actually really good for the church.

>>54117086
Seems like your options are clear then. Decide how important a no-hassle friendship and the game are to you, and either risk them both and talk it out, preserve both and stay silent, or sacrifice one for the other and leave the game.

>>54117040
No, I'm not OP, I'm just wondering if you were trying to be antagonizing. I mean...you're posting Marin Luther. In a thread about not!Catholicism. Wherein the OP is probably seriously considering trying to play a character who's intent will be to reform the not!Catholic religion.

The parallels are kind of hard to miss, and a Catholic might not appreciate having to portray a pseudo-Luther.

>>54116766
>an evil not-Catholic pope

But Anon, the Protestants don't have popes.

>>54117096
Come on bruh. That's too low hanging fruit.

>>54117073
>fanatic
>dude how about we don't have these rich assholes with their golden sex boy slaves ruling the entire continent from their golden marble palaces in rome, who just buy away their sins with money collected from our own worshippers lmao

I mean, he was a real jerk!

>>54117073
You could say the 30 Years War was about prince's rights or religion and be right both ways. Kinda like how people can say the American Civil War was about state's rights or about slavery and still be right. Luthor was just a catalyst for some deep-seated issues in both the HRE and Catholic Church and it all came to a head in bloody conflict, which if it didn't happen then would've happened in some form at some other time.

>>54117060
The Albegensian Crusade wasn't as one-sided an affair as is often claimed. The Cathars weren't shy about the occasional murder, and it only became a truly bloody after the Cathars murdered a papal legate and the French nobility saw it as a prime moment for a bit of land redistribution.

It's 2017, stop being catholic and maybe you'll stop being such a child about whether or not other people like your imaginary friends.

>>54117109
Why do you comment on historical events you know nothing about?

>>54117119
>Kinda like how people can say the American Civil War was about state's rights or about slavery and still be right.
Yeah, a state's rights to slaves.

>>54117109
Or those fucking Lollards, right. John Wycliffe, what a complete cunt.

>>54117119
Well, they say that making peaceful change impossible is making violent one inevitable.

>>54116766
>standard JRPG plot device #8
>a gigantic problem
Sack the fuck up.

>>54117140
Nope, just states rights. Slavery didn't come into it until more than halfway into the war.

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>>54117124
You forgot your fedora anon

>>54116766
>Should I say anything?
I honestly couldn't care any less about what you do here if I'm being honest.
Just make up your mind and do or do not do something, it's not that hard.

>>54117130
How about you refute me or shut you dirty catholic mouth, bitchboy?

>>54117156
That's just incorrect

>>54117140
>Prince's right to religion
You see how this works both ways, right?

>>54117156
>Nope, just states rights. Slavery didn't come into it until more than halfway into the war.
Slavery came into it with the Cornerstone Address, which preceded the war. Learn some fucking history.

>>54117119
>Kinda like how people can say the American Civil War was about state's rights or about slavery and still be right.

You actually can't. It is unambiguously about slavery, and this was understood even at the time. While a few individual people were only in the war in support of their home state - Lee, natch - the overall war entirely centers around slaves. Black slaves, specifically.

I mean, fuck, just read the Confederate Constitution. It's nearly word-for-word a copy of the US Constitution, except for a few minor changes, additions, and subtractions here and there...and one of the changes was that in every case where the US Constitution refers to "persons held to service or labor" (thereby including, say, indentured servants), the Confederate Constitution explicitly mentions the slavery of the African race by name. For example:

>Article I, Section 9(4):
>"No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

I could go on for some time. The point is that the idea that the Civil War was about anything other than slavery is a post-war myth invented by the United States - both North and South - to make Reconstruction and reintegration of the South easier and cut down on the chances of a second rebellion. But at the time, it was understood and completely unambiguous that the whole thing was being driven by and fought over slavery.

>>54117155
Yeah and JRPG plots totally aren't shit, right?

> Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth

>>54116766
Well, religion is garbage and should end, but kudos on sinking to the level of base SJW fags.

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>>54116861
OP, do this >>54116908 and you'll be golden!

Protect the weak and the innocent and do everything that christians are supposed to do, along with defeating the evil organization, bringing down religion and spreading the name of Christ and what he stood for.

DEUS VULT!

>>54116992
Indulgences aren't what really terrible in and of themselves, and were never supposed to excuse or permit sin. Theologically, they're components of penance and forgiveness, and only went astray when the concept was exploited for commercialization by corrupt individuals.

And, the Inquisition was actually considerably less blood-thirsty than any secular court, and most of its bad reputation comes from failing to compare it to its contemporaries, combined with blatant exaggeration.

Henry VIII executed more than twenty times (70,000+ compared to 3,000+) the amount of people the Inquisition did in a quarter of the time.

>>54117168
>>54117161

One of the states rights in question was their right to own slaves. Lincoln never cared about slavery specifically. The civil war was more about whether or not a state has the right to secede than it was about saving anything.

>>54117176
I can say with total honesty that they're probably better than anything you've ever come up with.

>>54117170
We'll heck, you learn something new every day. However, the 30YW was still about both religion and (at least in a meta way) Proncely autonomy.

>>54117146
Well I heard he sometimes didn't say bless you after people sneezed and occasionally got his drank on, so i say it's only fair that you dig up his corpse from consecrated grounds and burn the remains out of spite.

The Confederacy went so far as to say no member state could pass legislation that would lead to the abolition of slaves.

So much for state's right.

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Christianity is evil, you fucking idiot.

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>>54117197

>>54117196
The Union fought to preserve the Union. The Confederacy fought to preserve the institution of slavery. The balance of power had tipped to the point slave states were becoming out numbered by non-slave states with abolitionist leanings. Their decision to secede was solely to ensure their cultural institution of race based slavery persisted.

The Confederacy saw the abolition of slavery as inevitable under the eyes of the Union as a whole, even if the North hadn't yet come to that conclusion.

>catholics are still triggered by protestants
>even though the vatican is still one of the most corrupt entitites in the world

keke

>>54117224
You wouldn't be so upset if it weren't true, anon.

>>54117196
No, again, it wasn't. This was totally understood at the time, that the war was over slavery.

Listen to the "Battle-Hymn" of the Republic, for example, written in 1861, just one year into the war. The very last line before the final chorus is:

>As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
>While God is marching on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

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but religion has been used to oppress/control people and is still used to do so to this day

>>54116989
That wasn't what they disapproved of his heliocentrism theory. The church had been dutifully preserving ancient Greek teachings that suggested that very thing.

What he was arrested for was breach of contract, because he ye olde copy pasted half those ancient Greek texts, and spending half the book taking the piss out of the Pope. It was a purely secular matter and that's why they sent him to a state court rather than a church court.

>>54117226
>the south wanted to keep slavery and that's why civil war! Just look at reddit!
You couldn't be more wrong... but then again revisionist history is all that (((they))) teach in schools any more...

>>54116766
Catholicism has to be villified in fiction because they're the legit good guys IRL.
I mean, you can't really villify jews, muslims or protestants because the shit you'd have them doing to prove their evil, they actually do IRL.
S&M nuns and pope Palpatine having an army of supernatural inquisitors is pulp. Zionist bankers enslaving people through calculated economic violence, jihadists driving trucks into a crowd of tourists and rural american preachers fucking everyone at sunday school under the age of ten are things that actually happen.

>>54117242
No it wasn't. Slavery was a topic, but the war was about the federal government overstepping it's bounds and imposing laws that it was not constitutionally obligated or empowered to. It was the tipping point in American history when it became apparent that you could have too much freedom and that was a bad thing.

>>54117270
So is every government, institution and organization everywhere. If they weren't it would be total anarchy.

>>54117205
I think Alabama made it legal so that any white man, regardless of whether he was even from America or not, could vote in their election

Somebody from Britain could theoretically have travelled to the Confederacy and as long as he was white he could vote. Confederacy were basically just proto-Nazis

>>54116861
Kill everyone starting with the DMPC and start your own Popedom.

>>54116766
Fucking right wing snowflakes.

>>54117277
>but the war was about the federal government overstepping it's bounds and imposing laws that it was not constitutionally obligated or empowered to
Which laws?

And its damn funny the South cries poor, after the North was obligated to humor their Fugitive Slave Laws that violated Northern sovereignty and Northern morality by compelling Northerners to assist in the abduction of human beings for life time bondage.

>>54117282
Yeah except there's nothing scientific about religion that can be corroborated with reality or history. No religion has any scientific basis

>>54117277
Like the south requiring the rest of the nation to follow the fugitive slave law?

>>54117305
>No religion has any scientific basis
Not even Scientology?

>>54117298
>>54117307

>Human beings

Missing property. I would expect back then it would be common courtesy to return someone's property if you found it.

>>54117274
Lol, using triple bracketing to avoid mentioning jews. Where the fuck do you think you are?

Also, the jews aren't in education, there's no money in it.

>>54117305
> muh scientific method
Surprised we got this far before the retards showed up

>>54117305
What does science have to do with governmental organization?

>>54117315
I see. Well there's no point even having this conversation with you if that's your take on the issue. Your arguments, like the South at the time, is purely legalistic and in essence hypocritical, without an ounce of moral fiber.

>>54117314
ALL PRAISE XENU

Oh wait, shit, he's the bad guy isn't he? Guess I'm a Scientology Satanist now.

>>54117336
This is like getting mad at someone because they want their lost dog returned to them.

>>54117078
You're way too paranoid of the /pol/ boogeyman.
There is no /pol/ army doing tactical posting strikes on the internuts, it's just a containment board for idiots. No board has a monolithic culture anymore, not even /b/ or /r9k/

>>54117314
Especially Scientology.

They believe Hubbard met with wizards in China

>>54117277
Slavery was THE topic, you moron. Again, this is completely unambiguous by any source you care to look at. Mississippi, Texas, and at least a few other rebel states explicitly mention it as being THE reason in their declarations of secession. The "Cornerstone Speech" of Alexander Stephens identifies it as the absolute central reason of secession. The Confederate Constitution makes its intentions plain by explicitly mentioning "negro slaves" rather than "persons held to labor" as the US Constitution does.

Also, imposing WHAT laws? Secession began before Lincoln even took office and the jackass Buchanan was still President. And Lincoln swore up and down throughout his campaign that he had no intention of ending slavery. And Congress was continuing to enforce all the laws concerning slavery in 1860 that it had in 1859 - many of which could be (and were) argued to impinge upon the rights of Northern states concerning slavery and how they treated it.

The South had enjoyed the Federal government bending over backwards time and again to acquiesce to their "peculiar institution". They rose up in rebellion because the election of Lincoln signaled the end of their ability to force an issue through Congress or past the President - that their numbers, already artificially high due to the 3/5ths clause, were no longer sufficient to guarantee the political power necessary to enforce slavery. Even if Lincoln kept all his campaign promises and didn't do a damn thing to end slavery through 1864 or even through 1868, the South couldn't guarantee the next President would feel the same, or the one after that.

So like the arrogant aristocratic assholes that they were, they stormed out of the Union in a hissy fit - and then promptly started a war that they had no possibility of winning, and yet have the gall to call it the "War of Northern Aggression" when at every point it was the South who was the antagonist.

>>54117349
If someone took my dog I'd be damned mad.

If someone abducted my neighbor to force them to pick cotton for them for a life time I'd be nail spitting furious.

>>54117352
I just don't fucking get people.

I know why the celebrities get sucked into scientology, but regular everyday people? Hubbard said repeatedly that he was bullshitting everyone.

>>54117320
>the scientific method is bad

How am I the retard again?

>>54117086
If I were you and your playgroup I'd start acting like Lenninists and push the dankest, most violent and corrupt version of communism you can untill the deconstructivist cuckold you have for a DM whines that it's not fair to purposedly "misrepresent" other people's ideologies, then punch him in the dick and call him a hypocrite.

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>>54116766
>the villain is an evil not-Catholic pope
SMITE AND KILL
PURIFY THE CHURCH
WASH AWAY THE STAINS OF CORRUPTION WITH THE BLOOD OF THE CORRUPT
GOD WILLS IT

>>54117364
Scientology's membership isn't as high as the church claims. Their numbers are grossly inflated.

>>54117320
Oh, so accepting a rigorous system of experimentation and the reproduction of results under specific conditions in order to take advantage of the natural world is retarded, but genuinely believing in magical men in the sky isn't?

>>54117360
Dog's can't own houses silly.

>>54117381
It's that anyone is a part of it at all that's got me scrstching my head. Is it just because a bunch of famous people are involved?

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>>54117364
I'm going to talk bullshit about something I know nothing about and only vaguely heard mentioned once without doublechecking it, but didn't Nebudchanezzar also state multiple times that he wasn't a god, yet he was still worshipped as one? Same with Rastafari, despite Haille Selaisse stating multiple times that he isn't the reincarnation of Jesus?

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>>54117021

>>54117355
Lost Causers are a lost cause, you won't sway his opinion with plainly stated facts.

>>54117399
To be fair, the current pope is pretty chill.

>>54117369
>>54117388
No, but trying to apply it outside of the scientific realm is

>>54116766
Your GM is an edgelord, and probably an idiot too.

But I wouldn't go about argue about it, idiots should stay idiots. Otherwise no one would be smart.

>>54117276
this

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>evil pope

And this is a problem why, you fucking satanist?

>>54117418
It usually just ends with them going full /pol/ though

>>54117400
I can't afford tickets to Cirque du Soleil, so I make do by watching mental acrobatics instead.

>>54117315
edgy

Anyway, to get this thread back on track: if you're in Middle-to-Highschool, your DM is just being retarded like any other kid, and talking to him probably won't accomplish much but you should still try. If you're in college or out of school, good luck because your friend is a lost cause.

>>54117355
Not that guy, but can we maybe try to keep /pol/ over in /pol/ please?

>>54117400
That's not true. I was a retarded edge lord who defended the confederacy and even made my desktop background a confederate flag until I was forced to come to grips with the reality that the Confederacy was a racist feudal shithole whose only principle was the continuation of white supremacy.

There's likely just an ignorant guy behind that monitor who would likely cut his shit out if he was forced to reconcile with reality.

One more thread derailed because of a bad allegory.

>>54117270

And this is bad because?

>>54117305
Scientism is the worst religion.

>>54117276

M8, Catholics have plenty to answer for. You can't tell me you honstly believe that never has the Catholic church done wrong. For instance, they have the reputation for child molestation not Billy Bob the baptist. Billy Bob the Baptist is known for wearing a white hood and burning shit on people's lawns.

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>>54117479
>racist
>continuation of white supremecy

>>54117484
I didn't realize you were a cuckold.

>>54117369
The scientific method applied to government would be the worst thing that could ever happen to human civilization.

>>54117370

Genius. Frankly far too passive aggressive,but still genius.

>>54117435
Eat shit. Literally in your case.

>>54117506

And I didn't realize you were unable to formulate a proper arguement and would immediately resort to meaningless buzzwords, or I never would have bothered to engage.

>>54117158

That's the thing. OP's dungeon master is being a fedora-tipping atheist pushing the Marxist critique of religion.

It's up to OP. Two separate issues here. First, is the DM's /pol/itical morality tale getting in the way of a good story and game? Second, is the OP unwilling to put up with having opinions shoved down his throat that he doesn't agree with?

OP needs to be clear with himself about which or both is a problem in this game. Then he needs to sit down and have a grown-up conversation about it with the DM. If the DM won't meet him halfway (and he's under no obligation to), then OP has to decide if he should grit his teeth and bear it, or just find another campaign or even another group.

It's nothing personal. 90% of problems in gaming stem from not being able to have a nice reasonable chat with your fellow gamers, or not being willing to walk away when it's not fun.

My group has a wide variety of political and religious views. And yet we've been playing for 25 years with no problems. Tolerance doesn't mean we agree with one another. It means we disagree, but don't become enemies over it.

Frankly, your DM sounds like a juvenile dick, a high school fedora leftist who can't read Marx or Marcuse but parrots people who've talked to other people who have. You should do your own reading, and there's some great stuff out there on both politics and religion.

But that doesn't mean that he has any obligation to not tell the story he wants to tell just because it rustles your jimmies. You don't have a right not to be offended. Talk to you DM like a grown-up. If after that the game still isn't to your satisfaction, find another game. It's entertainment. Only play if you're being entertained.

>>54117517
>The scientific method applied to government
How would that work? Sample populations testing different types of government with outside observers comparing efficiency?

>>54117484
Because it's superstitious thinking that has caused horrendous amounts of pain in the past, present and the foreseeable future.

>>54117523
If memory serves he was German, he might not even mind.

Why does everyone automatically assume atheists are communists? Some of hus are right wing nutjobs, thank you very much.

>>54117501
>Catholics have plenty to answer for.
Who doesn't?
Any organization with enough power to do good will have way much more power to do evil, because evil is cheap and easy. So being surprised that some members of X or Y religion, government, institution, corporation or non-profit are rotten to the core career criminals is childish at best, and retarded at worst.

>>54117505
How was the confederacy not racist and not explicitly perpetuating white supremacy?

Read a book and if after that you still don't think the Confederacy didnt do anything wrong then you're just asshurt snowflake who wants white people to have a safe space country where no black people cant hurt their precious feelings

>>54116766
You should walk into traffic.

>>54117571

I'm aware that everyone has something to amswer for. I jist object to anon claiming they aee the clear irl good guys. That would be my religion thank you very much ;^)

>>54117554
Superstitious thinking is not exclusive to religious groups. Ani-vacc notion is perhaps most blatant example.

>>54117547
You'd have to massacre your sample population everytime you fuck up a variable because you can't just say "lol experiment is over, drop that revolution shit you're doing pls".

You can't apply the scientific method to governance unless you erase human rights and aquire an evaluator that is at the same time uncapable of empathy but capable of measuring the hapiness of a population.

>>54117588

And you should probably ditch that edge before you manage to slit your wrists with it on accident kid.

>>54117561
Because while Fascism is usually neutral on religion, communism is pretty anti-God.

>>54117547
Sure, make your own humans, two of each and stick them on similar planets (even better, make your own same planets) and observe from orbit.

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>>54116818

> implying traditional calvinism isn't the one true doctrine

>>54117594
Absolutely true but my point is that religion doesn't offer anything even slightly credible as an alternative to empirical reality. Nothing to even corroborate their stories.

They should be preserved as mythologies in archives but don't actually believe the stuff inside of them.

>>54117623

Oh fuck off, calvinists are just about the wackiest of you lot. The only crazier protestants come out of asia, and I'm convinced they're just straight up apostates.

>>54117591
Jashinism isn't a real religion, narutard.

>>54117642

Where in the hell did you pull that from m8? Seriously, where the fuck did that come from? I'm baffled.

>>54117642
if a religion has 1 follower it's just as valid as all others

>>54117617
Interestingly, fascists have typically been at odds with religion despite the occasion reference to God. Mussolini thought very poorly of the church and found himself at odds with them frequently. He also didn't practice religion regularly. Hitler rejected mainstream Christianity and wanted it altered to purge elements he found too Jewish in favour of what he described as "Positive Christianity".

>>54117601
>an evaluator that is at the same time uncapable of empathy but capable of measuring the hapiness of a population.
Doesn't Utilitarianism also inherently strive for that?

>>54117634
Right because something as unreliable as science is way better than a singular truth like religion. Scientists were saying the earth was actually getting colder back in the 70s, but apparently they were 100% wrong and now things are getting hotter. Us religious types haven't 180'd that hard since 0 AD.

>>54117634
Empirical reality is subjective.
Science isn't a way to live by, and philosophy has proven to be weak as shit as evidenced by how easily troll shit like marxism spreads.
People need false hopes, you autistically put your false hopes in science somehow increasing your value as a person because you value it more than religion. Not much different from the WBC virtue signalling their neighbors to get a sense of meaning and purpose.

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>>54117601
You would not need to massacre anyone, you just keep sample populations isolated and let them die out naturally. Think of it as national reserves.

>>54117665
>Mussolini thought very poorly of the church and found himself at odds with them frequently

On the other hand, he did orchestrate the Lateran Treaty.

so, seriously now, why are all you catholics triggered by protestants? You wanna talk about it?

>>54117666
Utilitarianism is self defeating tho.

>>54117715

They're subconsciously jealous because we aren't subservient to "Pope" Francis.

>>54116861
>inquisition/witch hunts

>The thing the church had actually nothing to do with/the thing the church made illegal and excommunicated people for doing

Even the slightest amount of research in the subject shows how wrong he is.

>>54117715
They've been talking about it for 500 years now. The most important turn of talks took 30 years and depopulated some regions of Germany by 2/3rd.
I would prefer they don't talk.

>>54117732
Are they still mad about how Luther ruined all their fun back in the day or do they have any real, current criticism?

>>54117689
And what will you do when you invariably fuck up and they revolt and decide to leave your experiment?

You either kill them or let them loose upon the normal population to destabilize the world further.

The scientific method is not a method of governance.

>>54117720

Utilitarianism > Epicurianism > Hedonism > Nihilism > Materialism

>>54117668
>science
>unreliable

No.

>>54117675
The difference being that scientific methodologies are a very useful process that at least attempts to understand and predict the cause for things in our reality. Whereas religion says things are like that because I said so without the the same rigorous process.

Do scientists make mistakes? Of course but at least they offer SOMETHING.

I can't even believe I'm having this discussion

>>54117395
Let us not forget the greatest of all unwilling gods, the Emprah himself

>>54117748

They compain some Protestant denominations are too liberal, while the "Pope" passionately advocates for the acceptance of abortion, homosexuality, and "moderate" Islam

>>54117698
I don't think he actually did, it was the Kingdom of Italy then by the time it was finalised the fascists had come into power and Mussolini let it happen. Most likely because the clerical class was a thorn in his side.

>>54117765
The emprah is a shit.

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>>54116989
>mfw my elementary school teacher taught us they burnt Galileo's eyes

>>54117750
You try to suppress the escape. If they can be pushed back, they're not that successful, if they can leave the contamination despite your best efforts, the experiment succeeded.

>>54117768
>Pope advocates love for the meager
>this is bad
The entirety of the Gospel of Jesus, if put into practice on the level of governance, would blow Americans' heads off with it's level of demanding humility, charity and open acceptance of your neighbor.

>>54117364
It's an association thing.

Most of Scientology's more normal practices are ripped directly from self-help books, and they do have a community, same as any church.

If you're at the point of trying anything and your life picks up as a result (or even just at the same time) of trying scientology then you might believe.

This is true for quite a lot of religions, community, charity and having a nice calming think are often effective

>>54117768
That's the thing I find weird, like, why are they so mad when they're exactly the same? Only difference being one church doesn't own half the world and routinely protects kiddie diddlers.

>another fucking papist persecution complex thread
don't you think it's a bit suspicious that these pop up like several times a month, if not more?

is this some kind of weird vatican youth outreach program? or just the usual sexual frustration?

>>54117861

They're catholics, it's both.

>>54117861
>>54117879

*tips fedora*

I'm pretty tired of the whole "catholic expy is super evil" thing because I've seen it so much. Especially if you've been watching anime, every single time they have an organized religion they're 100% batshit evil.

>>54117752
Utilitarianism can't even decide wether or not utilitarianism should be the end goal of utilitarianism.

>>54117891
Japanese people can't begin to fathom an overarching religious belief that requires more of you than simply acknowledging it exists.

>>54117886
>criticize the church in any way
>get spammed with fedora memes in response
see, like clockwork

>all these plebs not practicing glorious Apatheism

Could not care less.

>>54117543
It's self explanatory. Being a cuckold isn't a meaningless term, it means you are utterly lacking in any semblance of dignity.

>>54117790
The Lateran Treaty was signed in 1929, Mussolini came to power in 1922. Negotiations over the Treaty began in 1926.

Mussolini didn't seize power in quite the same way as Hitler did. Besides beating Hitler to the punch by nearly ten years, Mussolini was also technically never the real leader of Italy - King Victor Emmanuel III was the official head of state throughout the entirety of Mussolini's term in office, and ultimately the King actually removed Mussolini from power, as was his royal perogative (Mussolini was more like a prime minister than a proper dictator - he was just allowed dictatorial power for most of his term in office, but theoretically the entire time, and ultimately in the end, his power was checked by the Grand Council of Fascism and the King)

Popular support for the King actually remained very high in Italy throughout Mussolini's reign, at least until Italy was invaded by the Allies and half-annexed by the Axis. The point being that Italy never actually stopped being the Kingdom of Italy while under Mussolini. Hence why, for example, their navy was called the Regia Marina - "Royal Navy". Also Regia Aeronautica (air force) and Regio Esercito (army). the King of Italy was the Supreme Commander of all three, of course.

>>54116766
>Not catcholic
>"Pope"

Do you know what a Pope is?

>>54117923
okay

>>54117763
Science is science. Governance is governance. And governance requires the rigor or authority because letting people know you're not sure what you're doing and they're test subjects is the perfect way to force an immediate revolution.

That's why presidents swear on the bible and not newton's treatises.

You have to be a complete autist to not figure out immediately why people would refuse to be governed by the scientific method.

>>54117923
Japan also has this weird fascination with giving US senators WAAAAAYYYY more power than they actually have...

>>54117886

It's no wonder both social justice autists and catholicspergs both resort to the fedora neckbeard meme when someone criticizes their beliefs. The only way to defend nonsensical beliefs is to lash out in autistic anger.

>>54117926
You cared enough to post :^)

>>54117952
a french poop?

>>54117839

> implying that loving the meager requires the acceptance of dismembering infants, obscenely deviant pride parades, and paying jizyah
> implying that one must love sin to also love the sinner
> implying that it's impossible to love someone while hating what they do

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>>54116766

>>54117960
If I was being sworn in as President, I'd do so on a copy of the US Constitution, personally.

>>54117816
>Hyuck I created a virus that resists all vaccines!
>What do you mean "why?"?
This is why science is not the way to govern people by.

>>54116766
If your GM is doing something that makes you uncomfortable/ lessening your enjoyment of the game, talk to them privately. Either he'll listen and tone it down, or he wont. If the latter happens, perhaps he's not a great GM for you.

>>54117972

>Implying believing in fairy tales beyond the age of 4 isn't just as degenerate.

What did he mean by this?

>>54117972
>implying that denouncing people the way that you are is embodying the Gospel
It's sorta cute how you twist Scripture to make being an asshole acceptable.
Also, the current pope doesn't support abortion, but does support contraception, having seen the effects of it's lack can have on a populace and infrastructure.

>>54116766
Just be the best Not!Catholic your character can be as a counterpoint.
>>54117187
>>54117187
Deus Vult or Martin Luther, whatever it takes to save the souls of people from the corrupted Church.


If the GM starts shitting on you and/or your character for it, then leave.

>>54117923
Are you retarded? They basically had a divine emperor

>>54117891
The excessive antagonism towards catholicism actually made me think they're not so bad and after investigating further I now find them less horrid than jews, muslims, protestants and orthodox.

If Henry VIII and The Crucible at Salem had lasted as long as the inquisition we wouldn't be here anymore.

>>54118017
The current pope could very well be the antichrist, so he might not be the best example of Christian beliefs.

>>54118035
He was descended from a god, but their lives have little to do with religion or faith.

>>54118044
watch out there Mikey, you're starting to sound a little too much like ol' Luther there.

>>54116766
GM is a hack

>>54117923
Somewhat related, I find the fact that Hellsing exists kinda odd (and cool) in relation to the usual Japanese understanding of Christianity (though it's probably the simplest schism)

>>54117969
>The only way to defend nonsensical beliefs is to lash out in autistic anger.
Like you do with /pol/
>INB4 you're from /pol/ REEEEEEEEEEE

>>54117998

> implying the belief that a benevolent creator created reality as we know it = the tale of cinderella and the glass slipper

>>54118017

How do you equate not approving of blatant sodomy and the slow displacement of native europeans to being an asshole?

Realistically, OP's GM is more probably cribbing from Final Fantasy Tactics than a deep-seated hatred of religion.

>>54118044
>Anti-Christ
>maintains a sensible outlook of doing what is best for the people, not holding to church ogliarchy or the desires of a handful of western donors
>will call out his own explicitly for not living up to the standards they espouse
>openly chides the powerful for their pride

>>54118070

But I don't mind /pol/. You do realize you are talking to more than one person right? Or are you to busy fighting boogeymen in your mind to keep your wits about you?

>>54118069
The mangaka is a westaboo, that's why.
He actually knew the shit he was drawing.

>>54118086

>Implying that the complexity and scale of a fairy tale makes it any more real.

I have a bridge to sell you.

>>54118105
westaboo, gun nut and chronic masturbator

America is the only really notable place that still believes in religion and even then most Americans are starting to not care anymore

Most of the people in this thread are Americans. Prove me wrong.

>>54118121
This is an English-language message board and the county with the largest number of native English speakers is America. Of course most of the people in this thread are Americans. Most of the people on any English-language website are Americans.

>>54118091

In order to prove you are not the anti-christ in Catholicism, you have to give a least one kid a reach around.

>>54118086
>why isn't my agenda being catered to! :<
Sorry, my friend, the Christ did not minister for the sake of preserving "your totes unique culture", but for all men to find peace, harmony and love for each other.
Perhaps if you followed the word a little harder, you'd find things not so awful, but then again, Europe long since abandoned the word of the Gospel, and have acted sinfully, as though you don't reap what you sow.

>>54117763
There's a reason why we don't accept ether as a science anymore, and that's because scientists agree they were wrong on that one. The fact that accepted scientific theory changes so often makes it, by definition, unreliable.

Now that's not to say you can't take what they say as true, but if you do you've got to admit that in X years about everything will be proven false in some capacity.

>>54118087
FFT didn't do ANYTHING new when it came to that regard.
>>54118119
But he made bank. Hirano is a scummy fat bastard, but he is rich, and he finally got his meganekko waifu, so I ain't even mad.
I just wish he kept making porn of Seras.

>>54118175
>FFT didn't do ANYTHING new when it came to that regard.
But it did it well and was very popular, so.

>>54118175
Yeah, he's on of those scummy people that managed to set himself up for living the dream.
>I just wish he kept making porn of Yoichi
fixed

>>54118119
Sounds like a top lad

>>54118105
More seriously, that's always a good thing. Especially if you can step back and look at the bad alongside the good.

>>54118121
I'm from Greenland. You either believe in god, get too fucking drunk to commit suicide, or commit suicide.

>>54118183
The good part about it was how it tied into the underlying conflict between the houses of the Lion, and had a strong cast, with the exception of the church, really.
Most of the church's men were very flat compared to guys like Zalbag, Delita, Dycedarg.
>>54118190
>I just wish he kept making porn of big titty blonde/brunette girls
Gentlemen!
Let us find harmony in tits!

>>54118134
Any generic website, at least.

And even then, two successive global superpowers having English as a first language basically has made it a global lingua franca, so that's unlikely to last forever

>>54118149
Uh, butting in here, that still doesn't mean that everything's inevitably going to be proven wrong.

It does need to be proved first, after all.

>>54118263
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that scientists have a terrible track record, so whatever it is they're saying today will probably be wrong in the future.

>>54116766
Start practicing liberation theology

if the bad guys are doing things that the real church didn't even do, why would this bother you

>>54118329
I forgot where gravity was proven wrong, can you remind me? Or all that evolution that definitively disproved evolution once and for all

>>54118329
I don't see how that's an argument for the superiority of religion, OP's GM is a shit though

>>54116862
The problem is that with the world as it is, it just seems like you are blatantly drawing from modern events. It's a bit too real and a bit too not-fictional, you know?

>>54118362
Gravity is perhaps a bad example because even though we can measure it, demonstrate it, predict it, and so on, we still have no fucking idea what actually causes it.

>>54116766
Do gods exist in Gm's setting?

>>54116862
>Muslims aren't lawful

>>54118329
That doesn't mean you should use religion to make up answers though. Science is constantly evolving and changing as new information comes in where as religion is mostly stagnant, it's diversity coming from grudges between sects and rampant navel gazing as opposed to actual knowledge.

>>54118362
>gravity
You mean that relative force that may as well originate from fucking magic for all we know?
Very stable grounds to rule a society on.
Science if for understanding as much as we can about reality. Religion still beats it as a form of governance.

>>54117170
The Civil War wasn't always about slavery - I mean, it ended up becoming a hot-button issue, but at first both sides were pretty careful to not make it a slavery thing. The Confederates wanted the support of Europeans (who generally were against slavery), and the Union didn't want to alienate the slave-owning states that didn't succeed. Soldiers on both sides thought of it as an issue of maintaining the Union or the values of the founding fathers.

However, later in the war Lincoln took a gamble with the whole emancipation thing (still careful to apply it only to succeeding states). I can't remember if he was hoping to get a bunch of black volunteers, or if he wanted to add a new aspect to the war to revitalize passions, but the latter definitely happened - on both sides. You had moralists from up north, and you had poor white folks down south who had little else aside from being better than blacks, so they really hated the idea of blacks being made equal to them and marrying their women and stuff like that.

Not trying to be a dick, but assuming that the war was about slavery from the beginning and nothing else ever factored is blatantly wrong - just as wrong as the idea that the war was never about slavery, but still wrong.

>>54118437
Nigger. Catholicism accepts evolution, heliocentrism, the theorized age of the earth and even the conceptual multiverse.
In fact most of that shit was investigated within catholicism after greco-roman knowledge.

If you wanna whine about
>muh evil religiuns reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
go find a sharia thread. Right now catholicism pretty much asks of you to be exellent to each other as Jesus preached, believe in God and don't break the law. Even homosexuality, contraceptives and divorce are being tolerated nowadays.

>>54118477
You know there are secular governments right?
That and we know gravity well enough that we can calculate the force in newtons acting on an object based on gravity, that's a bit more specific than magic

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>>54117276
>The Catholic arguing that the protestant is the paedophile

>>54118538
Evolution, heliocentrism, the theorized age of the earth and even the conceptual multiverse, were imported into Catholicism after the church decided they could reconcile science with faith, kudos to the Catholics for accepting science but evolution, heliocentrism, the theorized age of the earth and even the conceptual multiverse are all products of science not religion

>>54118482
>but at first both sides were pretty careful to not make it a slavery thing.

That is the most blatant of lies. Alexander Stephens, AKA the Vice-President of the Confederate States, made it unambiguously about slavery in his "Cornerstone Speech" BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR EVEN BROKE OUT.

>Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Specifically March 21, 1861 - the Civil War broke out on April 12.

This is leaving aside the Mississippi declaration of secession:
>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world.

The Texas one:
>She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

And, from the Union side, the Battle-Hymn of the Republic (written in 1861) makes explicit that slavery was understood to be the cause of the war (referenced above, but the last line of the song is "as he died to make men holy, let us die to make them free!"), as well as the Union Dixie:
>Where cotton's king and men are chattels,
>Union boys will win the battles

Individual people had their own reasons for entering the war; like I pointed out, Lee was only fighting the Confederates because Virginia had fallen in with the rebels (and even then, note that the parts of Virginia that had essentially no slaves instead broke away from Virginia). But the war in its entirety was known to center on slavery.

>>54118626
>Lee was only fighting the Confederates

*fighting FOR the Confederates. Mea culpa.

>>54118582
It's hilarious because pretty much every large group has been involved in kiddy fiddling scandals

>>54118091
>openly chides the powerful for their pride
>And then immediately backs down from Trump

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What system? What setting? Are you going to give any details about your campaign aside from your DM being a soapboxing twat? If you're not going to give any other details about your problem, then I see no reason to believe you aren't just trying to stir up shit.

>>54118538
The Quran doesn't deny those qualities anymore than Catholicism does, in fact, the Qurans more nebulous and poetic description of the earths creation makes it a great deal easier for them to cede to Evolution than Christians who have to struggle with Genesis explicitly stating the order in which certain creatures and the plants arose.

>>54118654
The Catholic church has had the majority of scandals

>>54118674
With something to the tune of a billion Catholics, this shouldn't be surprising. Of course they have the most scandals. They have the most people out of any Christian sect; in fact I'm pretty sure they have slightly more than every other Christian sect combined. There are nearly as many Catholics as there are Muslims.

>>54118654
The major difference being that the protestant church isn't one monolithic entity that routinely hides and protects their pedophiles instead of giving them over to the actual, lawful authorities when caught with their hands down some boy's pants.

Of course, you could argue that the ol' "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" defense the protestants use isn't much of taking responsibility either.

>>54118543
>You know there are secular governments right?
You mean those being overtaken by Sharia left and right across nothern europe?
Japan is secular, in threory, but they won't let Akihito abdicate in favor of his son because it's his "sacred duty" to be emperor until death.

Individuals may be religious, agnostic or wathever, but populations expect a higher authority and with people like Trudeau, Trump, Peña Nieto, Macron, May, Maduro, Castro, Merkel, Netanyahu, etc. in their respective governments, it's no wonder people want to believe in supernatural justice having their back when shit inevitably hits the fan.

>>54118538

I didn't say religion is evil. I said it's a navel gazing method for making up fantasies to fill in gaps of knowledge. Which it is. Just because you constantly retcon it doesn't make it any less imaginary.

>>54118702
There's around 1 billion protestants too.

>>54118586
Up until quite recently the majority of the guys who discovered/theorised those things were still uniformly religious though

>>54118713
Feigning ignorance, while still horrible, isn't the sane thing as actively protecting and obstructing.

>>54118586
Again, Scientism is the worst religion.

>>54116989
Except that they didn't disagree with heliocentrism, Galileo was an asshole

>>54118737
I don't know, the idea of religion being an insursnce policy always seemed odd to me.

Then again I'm an atheist, so maybe I'm missing something.

>>54118743
Thats not really the same when Protestantism is fractured into hundreds of subsects many of which are heretical to each other and don't recognized each others legitimacy. Its essentially a catch all term for Non-catholic Christians of western origin.

>>54118757
noone's taking the bair, anon.

>>54118702
Catholics have about 1.2 billion adherents and Protestants have about 800 million. But here is the crux of the issue considering that were both speaking English I'm going to assume were either from the U.S, Canada or Britain. These countries with the exception of Canada are Protestants majority yet we still get more reports of Catholic paedophilia then another other. Meaning that even numerically disadvantaged there is more paedophilia in the Catholic church then the protestant ones.

>>54118738
>Just because you constantly retcon it doesn't make it any less imaginary.
>Science whining about retcons.
You sound more religious than the religious people in this thread.

>>54118737

That has less to do with secularism and more to do with unrestrained optimism. Too many people assume that refugees are innocent or that all religions can be domesticated like christanity has.

Governments aren't overtaken by Sharia because of a lack of belief in God, they are over taken due to savior complexes and the false idea of world peace.

>>54118779
>maybe I'm missing something.
That's because you're an autist, atheism is just an accessory.

>>54118702
Not certain, but I think Catholics outnumber Muslims

Or at least those who call themselves Catholics, I recall a survey from France that found a significant percentage (like 30-40%) weren't sure they believed in god.
Not Frenchman in general, French Catholics

>>54118799
I assumed that was because repressed gay catholic men went into the church to try to absolve themselves of sinful thoughts. Plus not being able to bang chicks as a priest was a good say to rationalise why you never felt attracted to women.

>>54118745
True although they also appreciated science, the whole science vs religion thing is a lot more messy than people give it credit for
>>54118819
That and Islam is a religion as well as Christianity

>>54118829
Oh, in that case, please explain to this autist why saying "I'm not sure if god is real, but I better pretend to believe just in case" isn't disingenuous as fuck.

>>54118852
There is a big difference between being Gay and a paedophile

>>54118830
They do not. Sunnis alone potentially outnumber or equal Catholics at least 1.2 Billion adherents same as Catholics with an additional ~600 million Shi'ites.

>>54118812
Retcon - "revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events."

Retcons by definition apply to fictional works, not investigative sciences. You're incredibly deluded if you're equating actual investigation and mathematical formulas to Star Trek or the Bible rewriting plotlines that you realize are stupid upon further reading.

For your sake I'll assume you're fishing for (yous) as opposed to being this stupid.

>>54116766
>>54116782
Catholicism has cool as fuck aesthetics though

>>54118921
East Orthodox has them cooler.

>>54118921
It does but one dimensional evil priests are boring

>>54118931
Orthodox churches look like poorer, gaudier catholic church.

>>54118853
Religions can be domesticated and rightfully brought to heel, but people pity sandniggers too much to properly discipline them.

>>54118946
So as a /pol/ athiest what's your thoughts on /pol/ christians?

>>54118853
>the whole science vs religion thing
Is a meme formulated by modern pop scientists trying to sell their books.
Almost everything we know about biology, chemistry, math, engineering and physics comes from christians, muslims or polytheists.

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>>54117623
>implying heretics of western heretics are the true faith

>>54118882
Of course there is. But if you put a repressed gay man who's been told his whole life that the kinds of urges he's having are sinful in close proximity with and in a position of authority over a bunch of impressionable young boys, there's a chance it'll end poorly. Not a sure thing, just a chance.

>>54118880
You're incapable of understanding the solace of spirituality because you're an autist.

>>54118972
Nah a bunch of religious people are also anti-science

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>>54118921
Very true.

Also true of Orthodox and Anglican, though there's not much between them to the non-practitioner

>>54118996
Just because something is comforting doesn't mean it's true

>>54118895
Will you start criticizing grammar too, now that then inherent meaninglessness of your argument has been exposed? Or are you still unable to understand that religion is not adopted by populations because it's "empirical truth"?

>>54119020
Anglicans are basically catholics without Popes or south-americans.

>>54117969
*tips fedora*

>>54118035
>>54118053
Plus when the government tried to westernise, they tried to force Shintoism, (a very local, community-based religion more about the land and countless little ways the supernatural influences the material world, mostly focused on reverence of these small spirits and small offerings and polite respect), to fit the western model (big, powerful, unified church and gods that directly rule over and influence huge things like the fate of nations and the divine right of kings and basic precepts of morality).

The result of this was State Shintoism, which turned into the dumpster fire that was WW2, or at least was used as a tool to convince the Japanese people that taking on the planet and committing atrocities were all a-okay because the GODS were on their side.

Gee. I wonder why the Japanese just might be a lit-tle wary of big, western-style religions? That's to say nothing of the fact that the Jesuits during the 16th century were a clear and very present threat to the stability of the country, or the fact it was western Christians who kicked in the door during the Meji period and forced Japan to trade and westernise at gunpoint.

>>54118996
I assumed that people worshipped because they thought it was a universal truth, not because it made them feel better.

If feeling better is all you're after, then there are ways of doing it without giving up drinking, sex, and half of your weekend.

>>54119040
Not that guy but I agree with you that religion is not adopted by populations because it's "empirical truth" but hat doesn't mean religion is true or necessary for society

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>>54119047
Honestly, yeah, pretty much.

Fitting for a religion that only exists because of a divorce battle.

Lovely architecture though

>>54118996

>You're incapable of understanding why believing in the Easter bunny makes me happy because you're an autist.

>>54119050
>A FUCKING HAT, I DON'T NEED AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE A FUCKING HAT XD LOOK MOMMY A HAT XDXDXD

Childish beliefs come with childish non-arguments I guess, huh?

>>54119008
Nobody of a sound mind is anti-science, but a lot of people are anti-scientism because science's place is in methodology, not religion.
Nobody wants to keep listening to autists who can't understand spiritualism and emotion when they're not represented by MRI brainwave scans as they drone on about minutiae, specially not when they are fearful and in need of leadership. That's why 6.5 billion people are religious and the mayority of agnostics still believe in unstructured superstitions.

"We don't know" is not an acceptable answer to the questions we make ourselves in the dark.

>>54118971

I'd consider them spiritual cuckolds. The only thing more pathetic than be being in a relationship with a coalburner is enslaving yourself to a glorified tulpa.

>>54119040

I never said that populations adopt religion because of empirical truths. I merely pointed out that wanting a fantasy to be true doesn't make any less delusional. It's fine if you want to cling to your fantasy, just acknowledge it for what it is.

>>54118944
>poorer, gaudier
How does something look poorer yet gaudier than something else?

>>54119166
because gaudy means it's in bad taste.

>>54119145

>"We don't know" is not an acceptable answer to the questions we make ourselves in the dark.

We know that stupid people whip themselves into a frenzy because of imaginary fears. That doesn't make it any less pathetic or erroneous anon.

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>>54116861
Join the Inquisition then and really fuck with the DM.

>>54119145
Maybe my experiences are warped from living in Oklahoma but the majority of religious people I know are anti-science, that being said it's not my place to criticize you if your religious believes don't make you an ass

>>54118895
You can't use retcon to casually mean change and then get pissy when someone else does the same.

>>54119023
Ponder the consequences of refusing people religion.
>>54119063
Violence and crime may make me feel better, and if the law doesn't find out and god doesn't exist...
>>54119084
>that doesn't mean religion is true or necessary for society
You'd be the first victim
>>54119088
Santa Claus is a better stand-in. He represents rewards for hope and compliance with authority. You do good in your parents' eyes and you get christsmass presents. You do good in the government and church's eyes and you go to heaven.
Take that reward away and obeying authority suddenly seems like too much of a chore.

>>54119212
beliefs

>>54119186
In bad taste due to extravagance is a very important qualifier of the definition of Gaudy. A hobo on the street with a "Hitler was Right" sign is in bad taste, but they aren't gaudy.

>>54116766
They make such great villains, though.
>ancient organization bent on world domination - history has shown that when given the chance they will seize all the temporal power they can get until even kings are under their heel
>they STILL have their own courts and an Inquisition, though they call it something different now. They want to make their officials immune to any law but their own, and they want to be able to put lay citizens under house arrest for insulting their leader
>lots of creepy architecture, with extra-high ceilings, stained glass, and gargoyles. Fucking gargoyles!
>creepy costumes, from the long colored vestments and tall miters to the more common Gestapo-black suits of common priests
>practicing ritual cannibalism
>spooky chanting in a dead language
>centuries of well-documented corruption and graft
>overt hypocrisy of preaching humility while adorning themselves in ostentatious gold and demanding authority over everyone and everything

>>54119063
>I assumed that people worshipped because they thought it was a universal truth, not because it made them feel better.
I mean, did you really?

>>54119246
There are methods other than religion for controlling people

>>54119135
*tips fedora*

>>54119304
Be gentle, he doesn't know your joking

>>54119267
Would they be gaudy if it was 'Goering was right' ?

>>54119246
Are you a Marxist? Because you're claiming that religions primary purpose is to ensure that people obey their government.

>>54119313
He's begging for an argument. That's why I'm giving him one he hasn't managed to work around for the last five years.

>>54119267
I might have been mistaken then. I always thought it was something made to look expensive but was actually cheap or fake, coupled with bad taste.

>>54119322
I don't really see how that makes the bum more extravagant so no.

>>54118395
>seems
Good thing Muslims have been pulling the same old bullshit from the time of the Quran, when Muhammad blatantly tricked and lied to people until he had enough followers to overwhelm everyone else.

>>54119338
You're just messing with him *tips fedora isn't an argument no matter how funny the autistic screeching it causes

>>54117923
In their defense, they have a very good reason for vilifying Catholicism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amakusa_Shir%C5%8D

>>54119289
Isn't that what all those people going "I have Faith" and "Belief is more important than proof" meant? I kind of have a live and let live attitude with religion. As long as they don't break the law or try to make the law conform to their religion, I don't give a shit.

>>54119160
>I never said that populations adopt religion because of empirical truths. I merely pointed out that wanting a fantasy to be true doesn't make any less delusional. It's fine if you want to cling to your fantasy, just acknowledge it for what it is.
>>54119192
>We know that stupid people whip themselves into a frenzy because of imaginary fears. That doesn't make it any less pathetic or erroneous anon.
It's easy to consider yourself superior to others when the only reason they put up with your shit is because their imaginary friend you so despise said to be nice to each other even if they were assholes to you.
Religion is the most peaceful way to control a population and let bottom feeders like you have a chance at life. The other options are outright opression (and no, you wouldn't be the "intelligentzia" in the new world order, you'd still be nothing) or war, which you wouldn't survive either.

I don't even believe in god but I'd rather say I do and count on people being afraid of hell/hopeful for heaven instead of having to keep my rifle at my side all day because austists couldn't stop poking at the hornet's nest of life's meaninglessness and society's lower dredges remembered crime is only punished if you get caught.

>>54117276
>they're the legit good guys IRL
Top motherfucking kek.
And don't give me the whole
>current pope is chill
line, because he's still letting child rapists dodge punishment.

> rural american preachers fucking everyone at sunday school under the age of ten
Yeah, it's not exclusive to the Catholics. The Mormons may be the worst about it per capita, but the Catholics literally conspired to move child rapists over jurisdictional borders.

>>54119300
That you don't have the balls or the resources to apply.
>>54119331
Religion is the only thing left to people who have nothing to lose. If it makes the difference between a mugging and a murder, I'd rather not refuse people the right to worship whatever deity they please.

>>54119343
Goering was so obsessed with bling that even the germans joked about it, he was the emperor of gaudyness

>>54119428
Neat.

>>54119343
Goering was so obsessed with bling that even the germans joked about it, he was like the emperor of gaudyness

>>54119455
Neat.

>>54118674
You only get a scandal where trust is broken.

It's why the Rochdale paedophile ring was scandalous for the police rather than for Muslims.

>>54119425
Out of curiosity what keeps you from harming other people?

>>54119393

Looks like someone is rectally ruptured.

>It's easy to consider yourself superior to others when the only reason they put up with your shit is because their imaginary friend you so despise said to be nice to each other even if they were assholes to you.


I don't consider myself superior to stupid people, anon. Stupid people can't help being stupid.

>your shit is because their imaginary friend you so despise said to be nice to each other even if they were assholes to you.

You're projecting your own anguish towards me onto the populace. The reason why most people don't kill each other like maniacs is because we've evolved empathy.

>Religion is the most peaceful way to control a population

That doesn't make you any less stupid for believing in it, my friend.

>and let bottom feeders like you have a chance at life.

You do realize that atheists pay taxes and do public service like most other people, right? I'm beginning to get a clearer view of how sheltered you are.

>e. The other options are outright opression (and no, you wouldn't be the "intelligentzia" in the new world order, you'd still be nothing)

You're fetish for mindless submission is showing.

I don't consider myself particularly intelligent for not believing in tulpas, just not stupid.

>or war, which you wouldn't survive either.

Are you african or a sandnigger? Serious question. It would explain your violent fantasies.

>I don't even believe in god but I'd rather say I do and count on people being afraid of hell/hopeful for heaven instead of having to keep my rifle at my side all day

I feel for you, I really do. If I was afflicted with crippling paranoia, I'd be passive aggressive too.

>because austists couldn't stop poking at the hornet's nest of life's meaninglessness and society's lower dredges remembered crime is only punished if you get caught.

"Y-y-you shouldn't question things or be skeptical because bad things will happen."

Man up, anon.

>>54119020
As a Catholic I sometimes find it hard to tell the difference. In truth I hope one day for reunification.

>christians all over the middle east getting massacred left and right
>the vatican has the ear of like half the worlds counties
>catholic church basically going "sending thoughts and positive vibes your way"

obviously evil.

>>54119557
He doesn't believe in it he's just an edgy /pol/ atheist, you're wasting your time arguing with him as he's either trolling or to retarded to understand that threats of violence, cultural taboos, empathy, and secular ideology are more than enough to prevent crime

>>54119425

I'm curious, were you born without balls? I've never seen someone so keen on such a beta mindset.

>>54119601
You actually want another Crusade? Because that's how you get crusades.

>>54119604

I dunno, I'm willing to believe he's honestly just this cucked and that's why he lashes out this way.

>>54119557
Man you're a retard.
Re-read your post and consider the implied narrative. You're working with two different moral suppositions at the same time.

>>54119647
He has specifically stated that he wasn't religious, he's just arguing for religion as necessary to prevent anarchy which is retarded

>>54119543
If I could get away with it, I'd steal from Rothschild every day, and so would you.

>>54119627
>do nothing
good job, schlomo.

>>54119665

I'll reread my post when you explain how you've become so utterly cucked to a tulpa. It's not possible that someone is born this beta.

>>54117274
>>54117277


Why not listen to what South Carolina wrote when they decided to seceed:
http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp
skip your happy ass down 12 paragraphs, past the recitation of the Declaration of Independence and its application to Britain, and see just how important slavery was to them.

In fact, find a right reserved to the state in that document that ISN'T about slavery, if you can.

>>54119677

I know what he stated, I just don't believe him. I refuse to believe someone can be this autistic about something they don't believe even a tiny little bit.

>>54119621
I'm certain I've seen more dead bodies than you ever will. When violent people don't fear their government, their neighbor or their god, what's gonna stop them?

Nothing.

>>54119730
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE he has to be gnostic or my cosmology goes to shit
>but he's the autist
Anon, I...

>>54119678
Sure I'd be willing to steal from Rothschild but that's because I feel they deserve it, I still have moral reservations about hurting certain people

>>54119683
And what's the alternative?

Tool up and March to the Holy War? Last time it just unified them more.

Missionaries, helping hands and good examples are more likely to work in the long term to erode their beliefs in the teachings of their warmonger nonse prophet.

But still it is fucking tempting to want to nuke the cube.

>>54119753
I mean "Religion is necessary for society" guy while an atheist is also an idiot

>>54119760
>missionaries, helping hands and good examples
You're a lost cause. How can one person look at the world we live in and believe in that bullshit?

>>54119733

>I'm certain I've seen more dead bodies than you ever will

Oh boy, is this the part where you make up a story about how you were in in the military and you "saw some shit" that changed your life forever. You don't have to larp as a grizzled marine to impress me anon. Not that seeing dead bodies somehow magically induces you with keen insight anyway.

If you're actually being serious, go see a doctor about possibly having PTSD.