So what are the actual odds of the average guardsmen seeing combat

>>54081744
The Guard? 100% chance of seeing combat. They get shipped to the battlefield immediately after recruitment; that's the point of putting together a regiment - the Munitorium already has a place in mind for them to go. So, how long between recruitment and fighting just depends on how long they'll be traveling through the warp.
Now, a local PDF? It's going to vary wildly. I mean, supposedly, the era of the Dark Imperium is one in which every planet saw some sort of conflict, but there've been plenty of eras of the Imperium when that wasn't necessarily the case.

>>54081744
>>54081744
Guardsman? Damn near 100%. Possible exceptions such as perhaps a force being used to garrison a planet on the edge of some sort of potential hotspot, such as the cadians guarded the gate from the eye of terror or one of the myriad of fortresses along the outer expanse such as the ghoul stars.

PDF, who are essentially guardsmen? Varies wildly. Many go their whole lives without ever experiencing any combat whatsoever, while some PDF forces are almost permanently mobilized, such as Armageddon. In the latter situation, the only difference between them and a guard regiment is that they were drawn up locally and are only really expected to fight on their home planet.

>>54081744
Guardsmen see combat unless they get lost on the way to the battlefield, or desert after recruitment.

Guard can get stationed on worlds that aren't in a major conflict but you'll definitely be fighting some kind of Insurgency 24/7

>>54081744
There is no thing like average guardsmen who doesn`t fighting on the frontline. It`s a waste of resources.

>>54082987
Or the if the administratum forgets about them.

The only thing stopping a Guardsman from fighting is how long it takes for the Administratum to notice his existence and ship him somewhere.

The types of enemies a guardsman will face however varies alot.

I don't remember the source anymore because it's been so long, but, it's been stated that the majority of guard in the Imperium will go their entire careers having never seen a xenos or chaotic force. The times they do are the stories we always here about, because it's exciting, but by far the most prevalent enemies the Guard have to deal with are insurrections/rebellions and pirates/raiders.

>>54083927
>Guard have to deal with are insurrections/rebellions and pirates/raiders
and that's where we begin our campaign. Begin filling out your character sheets.

>>54083971
Name: Hue Man
Class: Soldier
Strength: 3
Toughness: 3
Ballistic Skill: 3
Weapon Skill: 3

The guard are taken from the top 10% of any planets PDF. They are basically going to see combat for sure. Average survival time during actual combat deployment is 15 hours and you are considered a veteran after that.

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The Guard always see combat. Most of the 'good ends' for Guardsmen lead to more combat; recruited into an Inquistor's Retinue, becoming a Stormtrooper, etc. The only good end that doesn't lead to more combat is the Munitorium wants the left over guard to colonize the planet.

Time between combat and recruitment? As short as possible. There's lines to he held, wars to be won, enemies of man to be smote.

>>54083971
Name: Pirate-Hater McShootyPirate
Class: Pirate-Hunter
Strength: 10
Toughness: 10
Ballistic Skill: 10
Weapon Skill: 10
Hate: 10

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>>54083971
Would it be a dick move to string out the players by promising xenos/chaos combat but only ever pitting them against non-chaos insurgents and rebellions?

>>54086816
No, it would be a dick move to string out the players by promising xenos/chaos combat but only ever pitting them against non-chaos insurgents and rebellions, and then having them get killed within seconds of their first engagement with xenos/chaos
do it

>>54082942
>Possible exceptions such as perhaps a force being used to garrison a planet on the edge of some sort of potential hotspot, such as the cadians guarded the gate from the eye of terror
Cadia was a shitshow 24/7 warzone. Obviously it only got really bad when Chaos actively tried to smash its way through. But chaos cults and recidivists were a real and constant issue.

>>54086816
>think you're going to be fighting Orks or Tyranids or chaos cultists
>ends up just playing Vietnam but with lasguns
Yeah it would be pretty shitty. Kinda defeats the purpose of setting it in 40k.

>>54082942
>PDF, who are essentially guardsmen?

hardly

The difference being that the PDF are armed by the local government, and the IG are armed by the federal government. The IG adhere to a standard, but PDF equipment varies on the planet. Hell, in one of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels they fought with trench warfare and basic bolt action rifles.

>>54087094
>>ends up just playing Vietnam but with lasguns
>defeating the purpose of 40k

We must be thinking of different fictional universes.

Anyway yes it is a dick move because you're giving players false pretenses. You know what would be slick, Players vs Rebels in a jungle, but in the middle of the campaign you reveal there's a striking scorpion hunting them

Basically Predator, is what i'm saying. You remake Predator, with an Eldar.

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>>54087244
>You remake Predator, with an Eldar.
That'd be dope.

Actually almost did that once actually. Instead of jungle, a forest and instead of a Striking Scorpion a squad of Rangers and a squad of Howling Banshees. Almost a TPK. Was fucking nerve wracking towards the end.

But that was the day I learned never to underestimate the cleansing fire power of a Multi-Las.

I miss my Multi-Las.

>>54087244
>>54087094
Duely noted. After all, what's entertaining for me, might not be entertaining for the players. Predator, however, would be cool.
Then I can throw them against CSM

>>54087094
Depends also on how much you use the sci-fi elements of 40k, like playing within a hive, a gaseous world with tiny floating platform that you can only reach with airship... And maybe use elements like xenos technology (without the actual xenos), psykers, and so on... But I see your point

>>54087332
Or throw them against ONE nightlord and make it predator 2

>>54086731
You're the kind of faggot that said he had a force field when you were playing Cowboys and Indians, weren't you?

>>54087600
Damn that dude, so minmaxed....

>>54087560

lore-wise, what would be the most difficult foe to tackle (between one skorpions and one nightlord as the predator) ?

>>54087094
That's when you drop the tweest at the end with Chaos or Genestealers out in the open.

>>54086391
Only on a few very deadly battlefields.

>>54087656
plot twist : the rebels were ork in disguise since the beggining "So that's why they were that tough, and green"

>>54086391

It's only for truly specific battlefields, most of the time, a guard will see several deployments. The big issue is that sometimes, even the most trained and experienced regiment will end up the same as conscript when you pit them again *insert any strong threat from 40k* .

>>54086816
well, you could justify it because they are actually fighting for the chaos renegades / four armed emperor themselves.

>>54087127
IG are armed by their local government as well.

>>54082068
>Regiments recruited for specific campaigns.

Where do the NCOs come from?

>>54087917

Well, it might be true but only up to a certain point : an IG regiment will most of the time never go back to its home world, and might end up light years away from it, thus geting its ressources from the munitorum, and so it will most likely end up using standardized IG equipment

>>54087954
Where all NCO's come from. They descend from the heavens guided by angels and heralded with trumpets where ever there is a 2nd Lieutenant left alone too long, or where bored privates stashed their moonshine, to bring enlightenment and regulation haircut inspections to the unwashed masses.

>>54086816

Lying to your players about the game they're going to be in is always a dick move.

>>54081744
I think it depends on what you mean when you say "seeing combat"

If you mean being deployed to a combat zone, pretty much all of them (warp storms, space combat, mutiny and good old bureaucratic incompetence not withstanding)

If you mean personally engaging the enemy the proportion is going to be significantly lower. The numbers I see throw around for WWII are between 20% and 30% for US soldiers involved in the liberation of Europe, although I'm having a hard time finding any kind of source for it. My sear terms keep coming up with SLA Marshall's work which comes with its own bunch of controversy.

I though maybe a good place to look would be the combat infantryman badges. In theory you only get one of these if you've actually been in combat proper although this article suggest that may be a bit of a vague definition: http://nation.time.com/2013/04/05/to-cib-or-not-to-cib-that-is-the-question/

36,518 have been awarded to US infantry in Afghan from the invasion to the present time and I think the number of servicemen deployed (at any one time) peaked at 100,000, although how many US infantry have served in Afghan in total appears to be a mystery

This makes me wonder, is there anywhere where the Imperium and Xenos live in relative peace? Not happy friendly, more just 'you have your planet, I have mine, and I have bigger troubles than you?'

I like the idea of a stuck-up Eldar craftworld and a large Mechanicus/Guard planet coexisting with mutual hatred and disgust, but little conquest

>>54087917

Only if they can manufacture gear that meets imperial standards. If so, the gear counts toward their tithe.

>>54088464
Tau to some extent.

While technically the order to exterminate every Tau is still on the books, there are much more dangerous fish to punch in the fucking mouth.

>>54086816

It would be really funny to send them up against mostly human enemies, at least at first.

Then they're going up against Chaos Space Marines.

>>54088481
Fair enough. Though is the Imperium literally ALWAYS conquering- or at least warring- on every front?

CWE, Harlequins (actually friendly with Imperium according to older sources), Tau, and Crons all seem like they can exist peacefully, or at least go without conquering and killing everyone around them.

DEldar, Chaos in general (or is there any stuff where they just chill on their planet pirate-fortress style, like WHFB?), Orks, and anything related to Nids all really don't do the 'peace' thing.

SM from fluff are generally only deployed with a mission and concerned with that above all, so I could see them letting "enemies" they aren't assigned to kill go if they aren't a threat. Same with Inquisitors (depending on which, of course), Assassins, Scions, maybe Knights, and any other 'specially deployed' army.

Admech is content to go wherever and only prod around as much as they need, or at least Cawl since Admech gets so littlle focused fluff. Same deal with Rogue Traders, not that they matter :(

Sisters I can't see standing down ever, same with ministorum and their friendlies.

>>54088464
There also must be civilized xenos living in areas too hard to colonize, like a molten planet with small mining imperium colony, and several tribes of another xenos race living outside

>>54088607
Am I missing something about Crons or are they now a peaceful race of death bringer ?

>>54083927
>but by far the most prevalent enemies the Guard have to deal with are insurrections/rebellions and pirates/raiders
And Orks, Orks are everywhere.

>>54088607
CWE are way too diverse to be at peace with the Imperium. Certainly some craftworlds go to war more frequently than others. Still have a 'kill on sight' from the Imperium.

My personal headcanon is that Harlequins are still allowed on some Imperial Worlds because their dancing is that fucking good. But most would be KoS as well.

Tau and the Imperium skirmish a lot, mostly border shit. Occasionally the Tau steal a world, T'ros as an example.

Necrons are like the CWE. Too diverse to say a blanket statement, some dynasties are war like, others trade, infinite options with the Newcrons - including some Oldcron style kill everything living.

>>54088678
Crons are effectively the ol' redneck sitting on his porch with a fuckload of guns. If he gets angry for whatever reason, or you anger him, he'll brutally murder you and your whole family, but barring that he's just gonna sit on his porch, archaic shotgun in hand, snoozing the days away.

So yeah, kinda. But again it depends- Trazyn is fine to (((trade))), whereas Imhotek or whatever is out for blood

>>54088735
Good point. But my question isn't 'kill on sight' or not (because then fucking everything is), it's more is the Imperium ever okay with NOT gathering an army and leaving a few Xenos planets out on the frontier untouched, provided they don't pose a threat?

>>54088791
No.

They sometimes don't specifically gather an army to murder the fuck out of peaceful Xenos. But it isn't because the High Lords of Terra or whoever is making the decision is ok with them being there. Its because they have much bigger fish to punch in the mouth.

>>54088821
Figures. Thanks anons, lots of help!

>>54088791
Nope. For instance, they wasted billions of guardsmen and elements of just about every faction except the SoB and the titan legions in the failed Damocles crusade, even though the third tyranid war, the 13th black crusade and the ork menace were all much more serious threats. On the other hand, they sent 3 million guardsmen and elements of just 2 space marine chapters to defend the cryptus system from the biggest tyranid threat around at the time.

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>>54083971
Name: Charls Carroll Lee White
Class: Drummer
Strength: 4
Toughness: 2
Ballistic Skill: 5+
Weapon Skill: 3+
Neurosis: 8
Sadism: 10
Gaming: Pure

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>>54088735
>Harlequins are still allowed on some Imperial Worlds because their dancing is that fucking good
I can't decide which I like more, the idea that they just can't be hit so people don't bother, or someone points a lasgun at them, the Harlequin starts doing the hustle and the dude is like "...alright, lets see where they go with this."

>>54088735
I've always fancied with the potential of a story of anime in Hayao Miyazaki style where travelling Harlequins are tolerated to do performances in an Imperial world. A child sneaks upon to look at them while playing. When eventually Chaos arrives and shit starts, the child goes in a journey to find the mysterious dancers to ask help to defend his homeworld.

>>54087954
recruited from PDF, or they are selected from draftees on the ship ride over (possibly several years of ship travel)

>>54090380
>Harlequin starts doing the hustle and the dude is like "...alright, lets see where they go with this."
I know which I prefer.

>>54082068
>The Guard? 100% chance of seeing combat.
I really can't believe this. The margin of error due to bureaucracy has to have at least tenth of a percent of units being shuffled around from transport to transport, always being urgently needed as reinforcements elsewhere.

>>54086816
Personally I find that topic super fascinating and horribly underexposed in 40k literature and fluff so I'd love it. The 40k universe is essentially feudal due to the constraints on communication and travel. Feudalism as a system is the result of the inability of the central authority to exert continuous or minute control over local regions. This means regional government has autonomy, and so we'd see power struggle the same as you see in other feudal systems like historical cases in feudal Europe or fantasy like game of thrones. I think it would be super interesting to explore what happens during a revolt, civil war, or succession crisis. In historical examples unrest is usually the result of a precipitating calamity like famine. Generally well fed people don't have the motivation to rise up. Following the intrigue and plotting that occurs to cause an event like that would be very interesting.

>>54087281
Story?

>>54087954
the regiment is usually formed from existing PDF units, so they usually already have NCOs.

>>54088607
>Though is the Imperium literally ALWAYS conquering- or at least warring- on every front?
pretty much yeah.

>>54089669
You don't get it. If the Tau managed to fully conquer the resource rich Dovar sector, then they will use those resource rich world to convort the system into a sept that rivals the T'au sept in grandeur and power. Imperial logicians have calculated that it would put the Tau expansion into overdrive which would see the Tau holdings triple in size. The Tau Empire would be an empire of 300+ worlds. That's not something the Imperium can allow. The threat posed by the Tau is no less than the threat posed by the Necron dynasties and Tyranid swarms. Perhaps, some Imperials reckon, its worse because the Tau do not seek to exterminate mankind but usurp their destiny for their own purposes.

>>54087777
Yea it's kinda brutal to waste your vets against something that is going to slaughter them regardless. They have experience so ideally use them against a force that is tough but their extra combat will give them the edge.

In one book I read 8000 veterans are fighting against eldar and all but 400 are killed. However if you had sent inexperienced guard in then they would most likely have been slaughtered.

>>54086391
Bullshit, shitty BL novels aren't canon, if the average life expectancy was 15 fucking hours there wouldn't be a single competent guardsman in the imperium as even the veterans would be dead in 48 hours. You'd live longer than 15 hours on a daemon world or a tyranid invasion.

>>54098023
>Bullshit, shitty BL novels aren't canon,

Nice opinion you got there but the 15 hours is taken from the IG dexes.

In a recent battle with the Tau, billions of IG died horribly in fire in less than 24 hours.

>>54090380
>>54091520
>>54090721

stealing these ideas for future reference

How effective is the Aeronautica, when it is actually deployed?
>>54098079
Is it because of the commanders' incompetence? Or were the Tau entrenched?

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>>54086816
> Is it a dick move to lure people into something with false promises.
Is this bait I can't even tell.

>>54086391
>Average survival time during actual combat deployment is 15 hours

That is only the case in one planet in the novel called 15 hours. The odds of you seeing combat are pretty high, but you might be sent into a black crusade and die instantly or you might be sent to garrison a world getting raided by feral orcs.

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>>54101225
Not bait, just a fool

>>54100907
>Is it because of the commanders' incompetence? Or were the Tau entrenched?

It's because GW thinks IG are incompetent morons who walk slowly into machinegun fire, while the Tau are geniuses for using tactics that no one has ever used before, such as "shoot something from far away until it's dead" and "kill infantry with a big robot" and "shoot someone then run away and hide and shoot them again when they come after you".

>>54101453
Taking cover is heresy

Retreat is heresy

Questioning tactics...heresy

>>54087902
>four armed emperor
Who?

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>>54098023
You thought "We have more soldiers than you have ammo" is a joke?

>>54101757
>Who?

Genestealer Cult.

>>54086816
If you promise that OOC yes, but if it's IC then nope.

>>54098023
I said average survival time. There are those who live for years. I think it is skewed due to the millions that die the moment they are deployed. Think saving Private Ryan, a shitload are killed at d day but then the main characters last quite a bit longer than 15 hours.

>>54081744
>get drafted into regiment sent to liberate some planet
>fighting ends while you're travelling by ship
>become colonist upon arrival
Probably the best possible fate for a Guardsman.

>>54102261
Fairly sure the Munitorum would just divert the regiment elsewhere in such a case.

>>54082068
Unless they die less than 12 seconds after recruitment they will see combat

>>54102078
Understood. Nice phrase, I should use it too sometime.

>>54081744
The Imperial Guard's sole purpose is to be deployed to combat zones or places at a high risk of becoming combat zones. The troops that largely sit around and don't do anything unless shit hits the fan are the PDF, which vary wildly in equipment and competency depending on the world they're on (for example, Fortress World PDFs are largely indistinguishable from the Imperial Guard, whereas Feudal World PDF may well be nothing more than Roman Legionnaire equivalents and thus rely totally on the Imperial Guard to come help if a serious threat attacked them).

If you're in the PDF then the chance you'll see combat depends on the world. I know one of 40k's taglines is that every world has known the harshness of war, but that's not really much of a statement. Our own planet Earth right now has barely known 100% peace for thousands of years, but that doesn't mean we're all getting drafted to frontlines. Most of what the PDF does would be to enforce Imperial rule on potentially unruly nations on their own planet, or putting down minor things like pirate raids or small ork infestations. Of course in the unlikely even of shit hitting the fan the PDF (unless they're good like on a Fortress World) are largely screwed and will have to hope the better equipped (usually), better trained (usually) Imperial Guard will arrive asap.

If you're in the Imperial Guard your chances of seeing combat depends on what unit you're in.
It's pretty much a given in any military that a typical frontline soldier needs at least five or so logistical personnel involved in things like supplies, transportation, medical, bureaucratic and engineering.
If your in a combat unit? Infantry, armoured etc.? You're pretty guaranteed to see combat unless you get really lucky (ie some governor is rich enough to commission imperial guard regiments to protect his comfy world).
If you're in a non-combat unit? Much much lower chance you'll be involved in direct combat, though far from zero chance.

>>54087094
I'm not sure how telling players that they'll be fighting xenos and then an Administratum error dropping them onto a secessionist planet "defeats the purpose of setting it in 40k". It seems like a pretty 40k scenario to me.
It is a dick move though if the players want to fight Xenos and the GM is "stringing them out". I'm not even sure how that's even a question.