Explain to me how high level wizards don't simply rule the

>>54077379
each other

>>54077379
Other high level wizards.

>>54077379
The gods, other powerful wizards who dont trust their rivals, and the fact that ruling the world takes time away from studying magic.

>>54077379
high level clerics and druids

>>54077379
Gods, Demons, other high level spell casters, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that vecna actively shits on up and coming wizards

>>54077379
Same thing I wager that keeps things like dragons or other powerful beings from dominating everything. General plot contrivance induced idiocy and incompetence.

>>54077379
They are exceedingly rare and and at thst point they can create their own worlds. Also taking over the world would slow their studies.

Theres of course a few sorceror kings, they usually die from their own folly or simply being out numbered.

>>54077390
This guy got it in one.

I also like the idea in Discworld that part of the point of being a super-powerful wizzard is learning to learn how to not rely on magic, and how to not attract the attention of distant elder things that would love to interact with the world through a brand new archmage suit.

In my setting they do rule the world, or at least a country. If you can't use magic, you're a servant, and even servants are being replaced with constructs. All weapons have been confiscated so the lower class is starting a secret revolution with anti-construct monk training.

>>54077379
They teleport to a better world to live and rule in.

>>54077379
Each other, gods, sleep, lack of numbers.

>>54077379
Being Royal Court Wizard gives more perks and less responsibilities then being Wiazrd Kang

>>54077379
They actually do rule the world. Every nation is ruled by a 20th level wizard.

>>54077379
Inevitables, for one thing. Infighting for another. Limited resources. Difficulty actually researching high level spells. Gods. Adventurers. Assassins. Dragons. Illithids. Aboleths. Yuan ti. Golems. Infernals and celestials. Hubris.

>>54077379
Ruling shit is tedious, unrewarding, and incredibly stressful. Wizards are smart, they learned from past examples that its much easier to subtly influence shit from the shadows, which leaves plenty of time for solitude and quiet contemplation.

Plus theres ALWAYS a bigger fish. Better to stay out of the pond.

>>54078073
>>54077908

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

Dark Sun had the right idea with the Sorcerer Kings.

The only exception I can think of would be if the most powerful wizard in a kingdom is good-aligned and wants to ensure that the line of succession is respected so he let's the king rule and serves as his advisor.

>why aren't the least socially capable autistic shut in's ruling the world?
They got magic shit to do, don't care about the world or other people.

Why rule a world when you can make your own?

>>54078870
A masturbatory and ultimately unsatisfying exercise. Always better to conquer another than yourself.

>>54077379
They do

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>>54077379
You think for a fucking moment if that if you were a WIZARD that you'd spend time doing menial shit like ruling?

Fuck no. Ruling is terrible because you gotta deal with shit. You know what shit you don't have to deal with? Studying magic in your god damn pocket plane. Or maybe setting up a fucking beach somewhere so you can catch some rays while you read.

You want to rule something? Start a fucking magic college. Then you A) Rule something where you ain't gotta deal with peasants and shit, and B) You can still fucking research shit. Delgate the rest of that shit, yo.

Who the hell is going to attack a mage college? Other mage colleges? That's when you sit down with the other head wizard and make it an event. Hold a fucking cup or create some sort of sport. Ain't no need to kill one another.

The ultimate goal of magic is to get better and more magic, so you ain't got time to be fucking around with leading armies and shit.

Hell, it's a fucking miracle that every fucking wizard doesn't just blast off into space on a god damn spell boat the moment they can, rather than dealing with shitty goblins and shitty farmers and shitty brown shit worlds.

Shit.

They do, behind the scenes.

Because any wizard survives to a high level.

>>54078976
Winrar?

>>54077424
Or they got better things to do than spend time subjugating the masses. If you were a dragon what would seem more appealing fighting hordes of peasants, or sleeping on your pile of gold for years at a time and maybe eating the occasional virgin.

>>54077379
>What's keeping them in check?
Mutually Assured Destruction.

>>54077379
>>54077379

The fact that there aren't many and each other

>>54079073
>sleeping on your pile of gold for years at a time and maybe eating the occasional virgin.

fuck, that sounds comfy

>>54077379
Balance of power. Any wizard that is openly powerful to threaten the interests of the others is quickly sabotaged by a coalition.

>>54078146
>Wizards are smart
Hah, no. They are educated, not smart.

>>54077379
The fact that mastery over magic and competence don't necessarily go hand in hand.

>>54077379

Because up until recently hitting the metaphorical level 17 and level 9 spells was very hard. Plus the previous two eras really focused on Druidism and Godly Miracles, magic got pushed to the background. Now after the Mcguffin Event magic and magical theory is overfunded by kings and countries trying to figure out what the Magical Mcguffin Event was.

>>54079595

As Leonard the Wizard once said, "Does a wizard piss on his robes? Yes, he frequently does."

>>54077379
A few rule in their own rite. However, just as many nations are ruled by (retired) badass warriors. Arch-Druids have the forests. Magic is divided between divine and arcane. Both keep the other in check with colleges and the church.

>>54077379
The fact that high level arcane magick requires either massive amounts of studying/experimentation, a pact with an extraplanar being, or just plain luck and enormous experience- all of which get in the way of ruling.

Rulers can all upon professional armies, peasant levies, assassins and even servants of the gods. Doesn't matter how powerful a magick-user you are, you will run out of spells eventually and face justice/your rulers' whims.

That all said I did make a setting with a buddy where we designed a society ruled by mages, an Arcanocracy as it were.

In a freeform RP/ Worldbuilding setting I have that's extremely Shonen influenced, High level fighters start having Dragon Ball physical and even elemental feats (nothing like AtlA, but close). High level thieves are basically walking around cloaked at all time and are immune to scrying and detection with the right amount of focus. So, mages have their work cut out for them. They have the abilities to level mountains, but what pissed off swordmaster was meditating at the top, or guarding that village you enslaved. All that magic is nice when a dude
>teleports behind you
>pulls out katana
>"heh nothing personal'
's you and you die.

>>54079729
Same, had what was essentially wizard america without moving to a new continent. Everyone was into it at first, you know, multiple independent wizard states, sorceror kings wont demand your land and food. Promised general large amount of autonomy as long as you turn over any potential magic using people(gotta get those apprentices).

Well shit turned sour when the sorcerorkings had basically no armies to protect their borders or people because they literally didn't care for the outside world other than potential apprentices and test Subjects. In the end all it did was leave a bad taste in everyones mouth and everyone just said "lets just leave wizards to the research".

>>54077379
Sorcerors rule the world in my campaign.
To be born a sorceror means that immediately you get free schooling and your family immediately shoots up to middle class at least

By the time a wizard gets that powerful they long realized that ruling over a kingdom of men isn't their thing. Why should they want to.

>>54077379
Why would you want to rule the world? It's mostly paperwork.

>>54077379
High level barbarians, bards, clerics, druids, fighters, monks, paladins, rangers, rogues, sorcerers, and warlocks.

>>54080066
This is D&D, none of the other classes come close to wizards/sorcerers in terms of raw power.

Divine casters might but they're usually cucked by their alignment and gods.

>>54080098
>assuming 3.5

nah

Why would a high level sorcerer ever rule?

1.) To become sufficiently high level, selfishness and a disregard for human society is basically required. That rules out any Wizard wanting to rule a society simply to better it. They don't give a shit.

2.) What other reason to rule? Ego related? Because they think ruling makes them superior? Any Wizard who had an ego would already consider themselves superior to non-magic plebeians, be they peasant or king.

Just don't see all-powerful Wizards ever being the kind of people to give a shit about society, one way or another.

>>54077379
house cats

>>54080523
It's true in every edition except for 4e.

And 4e isn't considered "real" D&D.

>>54077379
Almost every anon here is thinking about this the wrong way. Of fucking course the high level casters rule the fucking world. Doesn't matter what flavor of inbred dumbass sits on the pretty chair wearing the pretty hat when all the wizard has to do is show up, make his wishes clear and come back later expecting it done. At that point, 'king' is simply a muggle word for 'personal assistant' and they will oblige whatever whims the casters have. Leave the minutia to the muggles by all means, but everyone damn well knows who's in charge.

>Casters keep each other in check
The fuck kind of answer is that? That's like saying the fabulously rich and powerful keep each other in check. It's nonsense and the world moves and is shaken by the fucking movers and shakers.

>>54080751

sorcerers are pretty cucked in 5e, in 5e it's all about wizards, druids and bards

>>54080751
Multiclass wizard/hexblade warlock in 4e deals massive at-will damage and nukes the field with dailies

Hybrid Sorc/Wizard multiclassed into Hexblade and you have an absolute abomination that can't be beat. Nothing else touched the level of power gaming a player running caster was capable of.

>>54077379
Fuck "typical D&D settings"

>>54077379
But gods do rule the typical D&D setting?

>>54081596
But they're a divine magic thing, not an arcane magic thing.

>>54077379
autism

>>54077379
They used to. Most of the world got exceedingly tired of banding together to hunt liches, sorcerers etc so they blocked off places of power with temples to the sun god in most of the northen half of the equator. This weakened the amount of mana available so magic is sevearly limited in almost half of the civilized world.
People with magical affinity are a minority amongst humans so other civilications are quick to either kill them or indoctrinate them early on. A standard for for a large amount of nations is to train only one military unit per major city, and have only one local wizard per decent settlement.

Not d&d based but still a generic fantasy setting.

>>54077379
wizards can and do rule kingdoms, but for a single person to rule the whole world is difficult, as they will inevitably be stopped by a coalition of people with a shared goal of not being conquered

paladins, clerics, fighters, wizards who are against would-be conquerors all band together to stop anyone who would dare try and rule everything

my party has dethroend their fair share of evil wizards with too much ambition

>>54077379
Many (most?) historical kings and royalty claimed to be
>chosen by gods
>descended from gods
>literal gods incarnate

Same is true in my setting. Sure, there's a few sorceror bloodline kings, and a few wizard technocracies. But most of the world is ruled by divine power.

Also, more than one wizard-conqueror gained power by pretending to be a god.

>>54077379
Sorcerrers who are far better at intrigue and social rule as well as having heredretary powers.

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>>54077379
>>54077379
>>54077391
>it's a fascinating individual the wizard
>got that magic and mysticism
>but he ain't really dangerous
>except to another wizard
>intelligent as all hell
>can't even fight in melee
>...
>matter of fact the only thing a wizard is good for is holding back other wizards
>a wizard don't want to see another wizard make it
>a wizard is like "if I'm not gonna obtain ultimate power, then none of us are"

>>54077379
A lack of correlation between fluff and mechanics.

>>54081207
How are sorcerers cucked compared to wizards, druids or bards?

>>54077379
The High Magic (spell levels 4-6) is only possible within a certain range of the giant ancient towers and the throughput of the spells falls pretty fucking fast as you get away. The mages rule the Magical Kingdoms built around those towers, the territories beyond that certain range is a free for all frontier.

>>54082785

they have a much shittier spell list than wizards and know fewer spells than the other 9th level casters can prepare.

A 20th level sorcerer knows 15 spells total. A 20th level wizard knows 44 spells (assuming he never found any scrolls or other wizard spellbooks to add to his) and can have 25 (assuming 20 INT) prepared at a time.

Also, 5e changed spell preparation, so you don't have to choose what each spell slot is in advance. So most of the extra flexibility the sorcerer had over the wizard has gone away.

Also one of the two sorcerer archetypes in the PHB is a piece of shit that has a chance of self-destructing leading to a TPK

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>>54079595
"Intelligence 24 is not smehrt." - /tg/

Tunnel Vision.
Most high level wizards are too self absorbed to think outside their own niche. When they do step out of their work to interact with other people it's usually so they can pissily bitch about their colleagues.

>>54077379
because a wizard is alone, unlike the king that submits to a clergy and is protected by paladins

>>54077379
Disinterest. Ruling the entire world is exciting only to the plebeian and the insecure, neither of which you can survive being on your path to high level wizardhood.

>>54077379
Mage hunters

>>54077438
This. I'd rather just create my own little world where I'm immortal and study everything. Maybe create new laws of physics in the process.

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The best arcanocracy I've seen in a friends game was decent mainly because it provided something for the wizards in question to get out of ruling shitloads of peasants.

Basically, all officers of the state were on a hierarchy based largely off of their ability to publish discoveries about magic and demonstrate their own raw arcane power. If you were further down the pecking order, you basically have to follow any inane fetch quest you are set by a higher up. If you are more than one rung down, you are fair game to just be used as a test subject or arbitrarily slain for funsies, training purposes, or as a means of generating undead on demand etc.

The rungs of society then being:
The Peasants and Servants
^
The educated but non-magical, who have shown to be able to contribute to the cause of magic through research and understanding, and perhaps a loose understanding of what magic and magical beings are capable of, even if the have no ability to cast themselves. Anyone with magical powers they cannot explain or control probably also falls into this tier.
^
"Students", basically junior Mages of various kinds who are still helpless to develop their understanding of the arcane further without outside help. The limit of this classification is basically when you manage to come up with something no other wizard has done before without having your betters steal credit for all your work.
^
Mages proper
Basically accomplished Mages in their own right who have a right and proper mastery of the arcane, and have proven they at least understand the meaning of research.
^
High Mages
Generally have specific titles, but the society's strategic direction is managed by a small handful of the most distinguished mages who have sufficiently great reputations for discovery and progress (Potentially just in subjugating other civilisations though) that even the magically talented can number among the casualties of their experiments.

If I'm making a 5e wizard what suggestions could anyone give me to make it fun and interesting, not just powergamey

>>54077379
You clearly have never tried running any sizable project or organization. It is work, a lot of work. Anyone smart enough to become a high level wizard is smart enough to know what a pain it is. Far better to just run a small protection racket or brothel if you really want those kind of things, you know big enough you don't have to really work but small enough that the state never bothers to intervene in you affairs.

and this >>54078012

>>54077379
Explain to me how individuals with weapons of mass destruction don't simply rule the entire world in the modern age.
What's keeping them in check?

>>54078241
In my setting one of the distant kingdoms is ruled by a Good-aligned Lich who rules his tiny principality by accident due to his use of an ancient artifact that, in essence, renders himself and his kingdom immune to the ravages of time.

Normal people can be reborn as constructs if they wish, since their souls remain strong even after death. The land is also always in the perfect seasons for farming, and as a result of those the entire kingdom is willingly trapped in peaceful stagnation.

Setting-wise this is a good thing, since they were near the epicenter of a huge magical war that turned the neighboring kingdom into a blasted hellscape.

>>54077379
Politics, finances, and lawyers. Khelben Blackstaff has a literal phobia of lawyers and does everything in his power to avoid them when faced with their otherworldly threat and legal jargon.

>>54078976
My current Wizard PC hangs around because he's performing a long-term eugenics experiment on his half-elven descendants to get one who looks and acts just like his wife but has a long lifespan.

>>54077379

If you are not playing 3.5, the fact that other classes can be just as powerful and take them on.

A 4e Wizard is going to get his shit kicked in by rogues, wizards or paladins.

>>54079595
No, educated means you spend ranks on knowledges, you can be a Wizard and don't spend ranks on knowledges yet still have Int 20+

>>54083389
Bladesinger Wizard.
Abjuration Wizard.
Halfling Divination Wizard.

>>54083440
1 Individuals don't have weapons of mass destruction
2 Governments with weapons of mass destruction RULE the entire world in modern age

caster slaying builds

>>54083728
Wouldn't it be far less horrible for him to just find a way to make his wife eternally young?

no_sense_of_right_or_wrong.jpg

Literally why bother? The hassle of ruling a kingdom is meant to be offset by a couple of benefits, namely:

1) People do what you say because you're the king
2) You're rich and can have anything you want
3) You're generally safe and secure, except if you're betrayed

You get all that anyway as a high level wizard. People do what you say either because you're a hero and they want to help or you're a dickbag and they're scared of being turned into ferrets. You can have anything you want, by virtue of summoning/creating/stealing/taking it. You're secure, because you if you even need to sleep at all, you do it in a heavily warded extra-dimensional space while wrapped in a dozen layers of abjurations.

You gain nothing from taking on all the responsibilities of rule, and end up having to do more work and risking pissing off people who might just be able to get around all your defenses if given the time and motivation. Better to just build a sweet tower somewhere, and if you're evil and need anything, go nick it on a case by case basis.

>>54084259
>if you even need to sleep at all, you do it in a heavily warded extra-dimensional space while wrapped in a dozen layers of abjurations

I wish there was an elaborate COMFY image of this

My epic wizard has to actively stop himself from meddling in mortal affairs to much.
Fearing that he'll become a tyrant.

So in this case himself.
Besides he has meetings with God's of magic to go to he doesn't have time for nations.

>>54078976
>retardspeak
Do people with sub 70 IQ play wizards to feel smart?

>>54078111
>Inevitables

Please tell me, why would inevitables be a problem? People give them more credit than they should get. These dudes are lawful stupid and just want to enforce order, so if you're ruling the world in a lawful fashion, they'll just give you a thumbs up.
Never forget that Mechanus is so hellbent on order that it continuously spawns an inevitable to awake an Elder Evil that'll destroy the world just "because someone didn't keep his end of a contract with him, and that's the worst of all evils!!!"

>>54078241
You're right, I think it'd take a very loyal and good wizard to do that.
Well, but now that you mention it, the other exception would be evil wizards that rule the nation from the shadows, and just keep dominated pawns on the throne. Given how high level wizards are naturally paranoid, this is very likely.

>>54085233
Except the order they enforce is often the natural order, not simple order. Wizards often violate the laws of nature. Immortality, avoiding death, breakign contracts with otherworldly denizens, abusing the power of magic in hidiously dangerous ways for selfish gain, etc.

>>54077379
In the past they tried.
They found out that rulling the word is a hard and taxing job with very little fun in it. If you do it right some other wizard with enough free time would hone his skills faster than you and overthrow you. If you don;t do it right and choose to focus on studying magic you end up being a terrible ruler and find yourself waist-deep in rebellions.

Tl/dr: it's too much trouble

>>54077379
In my game, they do rule the world for their own advantage, but no one knows about it. Anyone who believes that wizards rule the world is labelled an anti-wizite and laughed at for his conspiracy theories.

>>54079102
this

I'd go with the Discian tradition of Dead Mans Pointy Shoes, in that if you kill a wizard who ranks above you, you get their rank and stuff.

See, there's 9 tiers or so of wizards. There are plenty of T1 wizards, who are pretty much your freshly-graduated wizards. They're not much of a threat by themselves, but with enough numbers and planning, they might be able to upset the established order.

By the time a wizard hits T6 or so, those above them are starting to look a bit wary at them and those below them are quietly planning and working out how small the urn is going to be.

There's only one T9 wizard. They wear The Hat. Presumably, there's a trusted T8 wizard who gets The Hat if the current holder becomes the previous holder in any other way apart from Dead Mans Pointy Shoes.

Tl:dr version: Wizards don't outright rule the setting because they are too busy infighting, raising/taking/razing towers and plotting against each other.

>>54077379
Because in games you don't have absolute free reign to do whatever you want, and the NPCs less so.

Where do you get 25,000 gp of diamonds to cast a single wish? Do you even know the amount of painstaking work it takes to polish a diamond by hand? I do, and let me tell you, it is fucking INSANE. The level of skill and effort to make a diamond valuable is prohibitive, but making a bunch of diamonds worth that much gold? You basically have to steal treasuries. And that's BEFORE you can cast the spell that makes it easy to rob a treasury, because no one in their right mind lets a spellcaster anywhere near the royal treasury. Scrying? guess what gets put in the plaster of the walls and what the tapesties are woven with - lead paint and gold fibers. No scrying allowed. And rubies and sapphires, gods, don't get me started on those. Polishing those takes fucking diamond dust. And you're talking WEEKS of work to finish a single one! Raw gems? the amount of raw gems that it takes to make up for having cut gems is literally 100-1! So you're talking POUNDS of uncut diamonds to cast a simple stoneskin spell.

Infinite wish works? Like an actual efreet is going to be happy you called him to this cold, stultifying hell that we find comfortable, when he was lounging in lava with his favorite concubines and watching a captive sylph dance for him in a glass cage to keep her from being incinerated in his comfy home that would burn you to ash in an instant. SUUURRREEE you can simply convince him he wants to give you free wishes, because shut in sociopathic egomaniacs are so well adjusted and understanding of others they can convince anyone of anything, right?

And let's not forget, the gods and demons and devils of the world don't like people honing in on their schtics. Sure, they're fucking ignore a wizard trying to take over the world. No chance at all that divine casters, which are a thing and do rule huge groups of people are going to just step aside.

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Taking over the world doesn't work out very well for them because the moment they try, they make themselves a target for every goodie-good who calls themselves a hero.

Pic related. Foolproof plan, betrayed by his own genie.

>>54077877
Discworld does a lot right.

>>54077379
Do you know how much time does ruling take? I have too many books to read and experiments to run.

If one wants to make major changes to the world, you just divine a guy right for the job, give him a leftover magic item or two, and send off a familiar to work as his mentor.

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>>54078976

space isn't any safer anon

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>>54088801

weird that shouldn't be that small

hopefully this better

>>54077379
Very few people ever get to a high enough level to just blitz a kingdom on their own.

A wizard that reaches 20th level inevitably has few concerns for the Prime Material.

20th level wizards are too busy fucking around in other planes of existence to care about the material world

>>54079073
That's exactly the kind of thing that allows humans to rise up and make your kind extinct.

>>54084203
She's already gone and he thinks necromancy is a dirty profession. Anyway, this way is much more interesting.

>>54077379
because you end up fighting/killing/stopping them?

so you are keeping them in check along with every other adventurer in the world

>>54077379
After the first wizard war no one wanted to start a second.

>>54079595
>Having 26 INT
>Being 8 standard deviations above average intelligence
>Instant aptitude in any subject in which intelligence is applied
>Foolish lesser minds are literally stunned by your intellect if they attempt to probe your thoughts

Nah but it's just how many books you've read, though.

>>54077379
Read Sorcery by Terry Pratchett. Pretty good reason.

>>54092375
Sourcery*

>>54085587
A player tried to pull the old "I'll convince the efrit to give me two wishes, then I'll gI've him the third so he keeps coming back". Third wish ended up being "I wish this asshole that pulled me away from my home was dead". The players stopped being cute with their wishes.