Would he have won the war if it was a True Realistic like

>>54065963
>True Realistic
Oh no, CWC has read ASOIAF. Everybody, run.

>>54065963
Most likely. Then again the whole war would never had happened, because Robert would realize his children are not his own

>>54065963
I am still baffled at the turn that shit took--assuming the show follows the same route as the book, because Martin once described Stannis in very glowing terms, comparing him to some Bong noble who actually won his war.

So it seems very out of character--wildly even--for him to sacrifice his daughter because it got a bit cold. He even gave one of his soldiers literally impossible orders to retreat with his daughter back to Dragonstone and fight until she sat upon the Iron Throne if he died.

>>54066711
It literally can't happen in the books, because Stannis and Shireen are at completely different locations. Also, here's what GRRM said about him.

>And it is important that the individual books refer to the civil wars, but the series title reminds us constantly that the real issue lies in the North beyond the Wall. Stannis becomes one of the few characters fully to understand that, which is why in spite of everything he is a righteous man, and not just a version of Henry VII, Tiberius or Louis XI.

>>54066711
That's the TV series, which has diverged wildly from the books since Dabid and Company started writing their own fan-fic in crayon next to The Fat Man's sparknotes of the entire series.

>>54065963
If only he bend the knee to ARENLY

>>54067729
I swear to god, every time people talk about how Renly would be a great king, they are talking aboue show Renly, who not only had all of his negative qualities erased, but also had a great deal of positive ones added to him, to make it all the more SHOCKING and EVIL when Stannis kills him.

>>54067756
Book Renly was still a great guy, just a bit of a pillow-biting homosexual with literal pride cloaks.

>>54065969

>CWC GoT
Now that's something that I want to see.

Is Martin ever going to push out the sixth book or is he too salty about the tv-series or something, or just doesn't bother since he's living cushy from the royalties?

>>54066711
>CWC

Didn't happen in the books. Show a shit.

>>54067894
The latter led into the former, Grum simply doesn't give a fuck about a series everyone is going to know the ending to.

>>54068000
But the tv-series went into complete fanfic territory?
I didn't watch that shit beyond third season but from the things I hear it's way, waaay different.
I'd imagine Martin would still like to finish his own, actual and original story.
Not that Asoiaf was particularly impressive in the first place but I'd still like a closure.

>>54066711
the show's writers dropped the ball so hard it shattered the earth's crust

>>54065963
No, not likely. Stannis was outnumbered and unpopular.

If Rob wasn't a complete shithead and had supported Stannis like his father instead of letting KING INNA NORRFF go to his head then likely that alliance would have put Stannis on the throne.

Stannis' fate is still uncertain. He is in the process of liberating the north and it's unclear how it will turn out. I think he may pull it off, but I don't see him surviving the series or becoming king.

>>54065963
Nah, TWENNY GOOD MEN would beat him any day

>>54068258
Robb had no reason to support Stannis.

>>54068258
Stannis is unpopular, but he has one quality that Northeners like, and that is unyelding sense of duty and justice. He will be seen as stern but honest and that might win him support in the North, which should be enough to take on the imploding Lannisters and convince Tyrells rhat a devil they know is better than Targaryen pretenders.
Stannis is shown to be slowly turning into a more flexible character too, he might be willing to overlook the opposition of lesser nobility in the South in exchange for support of his bid to the throne - he might end up executing some, but he won't cut the branch that he will be sitting on.

A problem he might have is that Shireen makes for a poor heir and he might be forced to take on a different wife to secure the kingdom after his death. Lastly, trying to convince the kingdom ot follow him to fight off the Walkers might be rpoblematic too, as it hinges on beleif in Fire God, whereas Westeros is firmly Seven Gods.

>>54069056
>Lastly, trying to convince the kingdom ot follow him to fight off the Walkers might be rpoblematic too, as it hinges on beleif in Fire God, whereas Westeros is firmly Seven Gods.
I highly doubt the high septon's going to have a problem with fighting off the snow zombies that were so terrifying the last time that they showed up stories are still told about them thousands of years later.

>>54066711
Dumb & Dumber have barely been following the books for the last couple of seasons, which is why they're fucking laughable these days. They openly say that they hated Stannis, which should explain why he did a complete fucking u-turn before his death.

From what it looks like to me, they decided half way through writing the script of the season that they were going to kill him off, but realised that they'd probably need to make the viewer dislike him just like they did to get the desired effect. The only idea Hack and Fraud came up with to make that happen was for him to burn his daughter alive, despite it being clearly established that he loved her more than anything else and had gone to great lengths to keep her safe in the past.

I HIGHLY recommend reading the books. They do drop in quality a bit like the show did, but only slightly and everything that made the series great in the first place is still there in them. Almost everything in the show that sucks is fanfiction invented by D&D

>>54067783
>mocks his loyal followers behind their back
>starves out all the innocents in the capital because his bottom told him he should be king

>>54067783
The guy was a warmongering prick.

>>54069533
The problem is that the high septon and literally everyone in King's Landing believes that the snow zombies don't exist.

>>54069056
No, northerners are drooling, savages with ill tempers. The reason why the Starks in the book are so muh honor muh justice is because Ned was raised by Jon Arryn.

>>54067783
He was as retarded as Stannis, and an arrogant selfish cunt. He was that guy that is great for parties but you can't rely on him if you get drunk and need help to come back home.

>>54069594
This

I feel like it's really pointed in the show as well because literally every northerner that's not a stark or raised by starks is quite literally the definition of snow nigger. Mormonts excluded to an extent perhaps.

That shit they pulled at the end of season 6 with the little girl was stupid

>>54069594
Ned's cold temper is constantly associated with him being a northener.

And Robert as well was raised by Jon Arryn for fuck's sake. If he's not the definition of a drooling savage with ill temper I don't know who is.

>>54069652
Except Ned's father and siblings were as impulsive and mouthbreathing as Robert.

>>54069652
But a cold, calculating temper does not translate into muh honor. It took that shape in Ned because of Jon Arryn.

>>54067756
Well, gay character in an HBO show.
HBO is well aware that 'we had the gays before everyone else' is one of the three reasons they have any relevance whatsoever, so they had to Sue him up.
Seriously, I can't wait for the show to be over so that HBO can join MTV in the dustbin of history.

>>54069593
Because everyone in this world is a fucking moron.
From page one.
'Man, we've got this GIANT WALL here, but clearly that's just to protect from dirt-eating savages, right?'
'Huh, this deserting guy's ranting about monsters; must be crazy, amiright?'
'Woah, man! How'd this thing get so far south of the wall! Must just be, like, an omen, right?'
I swear, Ned should have died on page three. (Except then, there'd only have been one interesting perspective character in the first book, which would have made it actually unreadable.)

>>54070044
I don't think many people don't believe that the white walkers existed, they just don't believe that they've come back

Am I the only one who didn't infer that Renly was gay from the books? Actually I don't think it was so obvious for Loras either.

I was pretty sure that the reason for Margaery being a "virgin" was her and the family being a bunch of lying bitches and everyone was pretending to believe them to avoid trouble. I don't see book Renly being literally unable to put it in like in the series, gay or not.

>>54070090
they made it pretty fucking obvious he was gay

>>54070098
Where? When?

>>54070102
It was first only hinted at in the second book, when Loras says they were "praying" together. Later, in ASoS, I think, Jaime says is out loud, and Loras confirms it.

>>54070148
I don't remember the later part being a direct confession, although my memory is not that good.

Renly could be bi like Julius Caesar, anyways. It would fit the character better to just not give a fuck instead of being a closeted fag.

>>54070090
If you didn't get it then you aren't very good at reading between the lines, which is how a lot of the context of the book is gathered.

>>54070208
There were no such things as bisexuals in middle ages. You were a homo that fucked women.

>>54070208
Renly and the numerous other lords in Westerosi history didn't really seem closested so much as he seemed to keep it to himself.
We've nothing on how the Faith of the Seven views homosexuality morally, but it seems that Westerosi culture basically doesn't care as long as it stays your business and if you're a noble then you do your job and knock out an heir when you're supposed to. I think the implication that a homosexual wouldn't have children and continue the family line is the real damning part to Westerosi culture because it's clear that that shit is REALLY important to them, especially since they have a lack of complex aristocratic titles to determine succession and inheritence (something Martin apparently regrets not doing) and thus immediately blood relation are the ONLY way anyone can reliably lay claim on anything, with everything else being an extremely fragile claim to power.
>>54070243
Depends on the where and the when.
With a lot of the Mediterranean cultures that's true for whatever reason, but sexuality is as much a product of circumstance and nurture as it is nature.
Not that I think "all people are bisexual/genderfluid" mind you, just that it's a complicated thing that is more malleable then we think that partially comes from a need to procreate but is heavily filtered through cultural and religious norms as well as a general need to emotionally and physically connect with other human beings most people have to some degree.

>>54070243
Explain the red viper.

>>54070513
Not an argumemt

>>54070513
Wait what

>>54070044

If you need an easy analogy, see people that think we faked the Moon Landing, Dinosaurs, Flat-earthers.

There is a lot of dumb people that exist today. Creationists that think world is 6000 years old. If you knew true percentages of how many of these people were out there, it would represent a good percentage of humanity, maybe not a third, but quite a bit.

So stupid people not believing things in fiction is quite believable.

>>54069537
>D&D ruined a good thing
Coincidence? I think not.

>>54074239
But the moon landing never happened

>>54068467
His father would have supported Stannis

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>>54068403
I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?

>>54075290
His father did support Stannis, and he died for it.

>>54069056
in what way is Stannis actually about honor and justice? I've never gotten that considering all the horrible shit he pulls from the very first chapter he appears in, he talks alot about honor and justice he just doesnt seem to believe it should apply to him when he wants something

>>54065963
No, because to win a war you need support. He was an asshole and no one liked him. He spent all that time whining and brooding on that island when he should have been gathering allies. Right to Rule only gets you so far.

>>54069056

About Shireen, she's part of why he fights so hard to be a king despite himself not even wanting the throne. His daughter is the true heir as he is the true king and he feels duty bound to give her her rightful throne.

"Justin: Your Grace, if you are dead —
Stannis: — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.
Justin: On my honor as a knight, you have my word"

This is one of my favorite quotes by him.

>>54077518
It's my second favorite quote in the book. Right behind 'The North remembers'

The moment those hack frauds didn't even cast someone for this role was the moment it was fucking over for me.

>>54077631
Ain't that the Winds of Winter preview though?

>>54078115
Nope.

>>54077518
Is Justin best bro?

>>54078216
Could have sworn it was.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/sample-chapter-from-winds-of-winter.207815997/

>>54078304
I'm talking about the mannerly speech my man.

>>54078357
Okay. Based Pieman was definitely Dance of Dragons.

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I know, I know

>>54078498
What was his problem

>>54078757
sea niggers

>>54065963
>paying attention to the tv show
>2017
In the books Stannis is gonna win bigly.

>>54066711
Assuming Martin isn't trolling when he said she was going to die in the books too via sacrifice to R'hllor, her mother will likely do it without Stannis' consent or presence.

>>54079584
Well yeah Red Woman and that retard Stannis married are totally gonna sacrifice her.
Mother dearest has never liked Shireen. But Stannis is going to execute a bitch when he finds out.

>>54079584
>>54079597
i swear to fucking god i know this will probably happen but im already pissed.
Just how unstoppably enraged do you think Stannis would be if the ONE thing he actually loves in the whole world got ripped from his arms after all that pain, suffering, and money we burned just to protect her?
Imagine if YOUR cunt of a wife fucking burns your sweet, kind, smart, and lovable kid just because she thinks you cant win a war on your own.

>>54070243
It's more like homosexuality wasn't thought as a sexuality at all so there were no such things as homosexuals or heterosexuals, just sodomites.
It was the act that was considered a sin and people doing it were thought to do it to experiment further with unbridled sex without any notion of people being attracted to males or females.
If anything it wasn't considered that abnormal for humans to have sexual desires for those of the same sex, it was just a sinful act to act on it.

>>54079823
Stannis might win the battle of ice, but it'll be close, not like the stupid shit in the show. god I hate that shit. what Stannis does after could be interesting, but honestly i'd be ok with him just straight up losing to the cold, just not in the retarded sir-twenty-goodmen and brienne showing up like her plot matters at all

>>54066076
I'm pretty sure he knew, he had to, didn't he only sleep with Cercei once? He just didn't give a single solitary fuck.

>>54079344
kek

Who gives a fuck about Stannis, is Cleganebowl happening or not?

>>54079823
I don't think he is going to kill shireen. At this point many of readers want him to won

>>54080842
yeah and I'd imagine most readers wouldn't have wanted Ned to die

GRRM seems to be setting it up to be Dany + Jon that win

>>54080842
he's not
his wife is a cunt though

>>54079823
Stannis will probably break

>>54083033
PURE
IRON

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Reminder that Stannis will go to his grave confused as to why his brother offered him some fucking peaches.

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>>54065963
Maybe.

I mean, war is full of a lot of variables and most of the time the winner is decided by who can make the best decision in the moment. Stannis was a good military commander and had even better ones under him, but he suffered from bad publicity (or near as one can get in the time period) and a lack of men and resources.

He could win, but just looking at what he has available to him? I think it's more likely he'd lose. But like I said, bonkers shit happens in real war all the time so who's to really say how it would turn out in reality.

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>>54065969
CWC + GoT

>>54080026
He raped her often. He just didn't bother doing it properly, or was usually too drunk to be able to.

>>54083404
He never raped her. He simply did his rights as a husband

>>54083404
>He raped her often.
Did he? It's been years, but I remember Robert just being a perpetually drunk it's-good-to-be-the-king king who fucked servant girls and high-class courtesans whenever, because he's the king.
Marriage with Lannisters was politics since his love had died, I don't think he cared enough about royal lineage to even properly siring an heir, much less raping Cersei.

>>54083722
Not that anon. But he would rape her. In fact, I think Cersei in one of her chapters got pregnant with his child but aborted it.

>>54083764
Okay that suddenly sparked some memories, that did happen.
"Ned asks Cersei how it is possible that she never had a child by the king, and she admits she almost did but had the child aborted. Cersei goes on to claim that she cannot stand to even touch Robert now, and has not let him inside her for years" according to wiki.
So no rapes per se? Unless you count consummation and couple of heir-siring attempts after that, which you possibly could as Cersei hated Robert ever since the wedding night, but then again he was the king and she the queen and things need to happen.

>>54069537
>I HIGHLY recommend reading the books.
Yeah, I tried. They're boring as shit.

Reminder that Stannis will be killed by Mance Rayder, who killed and impersonated Ramsey Bolton. Mance will then attempt to kill Jon as well, but fail.

>>54077418
>he talks alot about honor and justice he just doesnt seem to believe it should apply to him when he wants something

Like the majority of humans through all of history.

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>>54084658
I'd be ok with it, it'd at least be interesting to read.

>>54084665
I hate it when people wax poetic about the books, but that is one thing they get right a lot of them time.

>>54084621
Yeah they aren't even half as impressive as you'd be led to believe by the following they have.
But, they do have a more coherent narrative than the tv-show, even if it's pretty damn bloated.
I imagine Martin has method to his madness on resolving all the side-plots in the end and showing that they were relevant, but at this point they kind of don't feel like it.

>>54084730
I'm still wondering what purpose did Quentyn serve. Was there really no other way of making Dorne to turn to Young Griff, or to free the dragons? Were his chapters REALLY necessary?
Unless Preston was right all along, and he survived. Somehow.

>>54083860
She also needed some alibis for Jamie's kids - the exact timing wouldn't be too much of an issue, especially with how Robert drank, but she'd need him to provide cover.

Presumably after Tommen she told Jamie she wasn't doing that again.

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>>54074609
It absolutely did. It just wasn't the Americans who landed on it.

>>54083377
>>54067983
>>54067838
>CWC
Chemical weapons convention?

>>54085402
oh boy

sonichu.com

>>54085402
>>54085435
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IPtLvxO8hs looks like it gives a good overview

>>54084730
>I imagine Martin has method to his madness on resolving all the side-plots in the end and showing that they were relevant, but at this point they kind of don't feel like it.
Martin has no idea what he's doing. He won't finish the series, and I pity whatever poor fool gets brought in by the estate.

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>>54085695
This
I've been stuck on Martin's ride since 2003. I want to get out but it's been so long that I can't abandon it.

>>54085441
WhT

>>54085441
>>54085435
Never heard anyone call chris chan cwc before

>>54086425
Really? I've heard it plenty of times.

>>>>/lit/

>>54086543
dunno, haven't heard about him in years

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Soon

>>54083860
He would *try* to enter her went he got his dick up full of wine. She just knew how to get him off without her vagina getting involved.

>>54069622
He was a pretty good intriguer. He knew exactly what to do once Robert died, if Ned had followed his suggestion, the war would not have happened. He was simply stupidly arrogant.

>>54086647
shut up, idiot

>>54090887
Nobu

>>54088365
He should have supported stannis

>>54085435
Ehat have we wrought?

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>>54080019
I think he will survive or At least he and jon can run westeros as dual monarchs

>>54068403
Day of the pyre soon boltons

Man, no character got fucked harder and ruined more in the show compared to the books than Stannis. The actor didn't care about the character at all, and the creators actively hated him. They made him a cry-baby and then a psycho child-killer, even going so far as to make his actually crazy wife into the voice of reason at his daughters final moments making him look ever worse. While in the books he's an incredibly honest and dutiful human being with little ego and tons of honor.

Jamie basically raping Cersei after his redemption is a close second.

>>54094987
bitch dillane portrayed the mannerisms of stannis perfectly, from the teeth grind to the grimdark humor. Major character changes were done by D&D but stannis' mannerisms were perfect

>>54095403
He literally said in an interview that he didn't care about the book or understand the character of Stanis and that it was just a job to him.... but okay.

>>54096456
doesn't mean he didn't do a good job

>>54094858
Would be great to have Ramsay die like a pig

>No wildfire
>Lannisters lose battle of blackwater
> Tyrion, Jamie killed
> Cersei raped and children murdered
>Tywin back to casterly rock
> Northmen go back north negotiate peace with King Stannis
>Tyrells destroyed for siding against the king
> Stannis actually takes the Night's Watch Seriously
> Dany tries to invade a united Westeros
>Horsefuckers get btfo
>White Walkers get killed by lightbringer
>Peace in Westeros

>>54098109
Ramsay is a piece of shit character with plot armor just dripping from his asshole

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>No wildfire
>No Tywin comes in just in time Deus ex machina
>Lannisters lose battle of Blackwater
> Tyrion, Jamie killed
> Cersei raped and children murdered
>Tywin back to casterly rock, where he is to give up his titles and lands
> Northmen go king's landing and bend the knee to King Stannis or be destroyed
>Tyrells destroyed for siding against the king and Florents are giving the Lord Paramount of Reach
> Stannis actually takes the Night's Watch Seriously and sends them help
> Dany tries to pull an Aegon the Conqueror
>Gets BTFO so hard she has to go to Essos and be essentially House Blackfyre to the Baratheons
>White Walkers get killed by Lightbringer
>Stannis decides to Legitimize Robert's Bastard son Edric Storm gives him Storm's end and betrothal him to Shireen
>R'hollor Grants Stannis a male Heir with Selyse
>Peace in Westeros

>>54077518
>>54077631
i always took that as more about his whole duty/right-to-rule complex, and less about his love for her

>>54099579
If there was one thing Stannis loved, it was his Daughter

>>54065963
no, renly would kill him

stannis had no army

>>54098239
Wasn't Stannis planning to kill Rob for not siding with him ?

>>54099587
That and a good BBQ

Stannis was having trouble coming to grips with the idea of sacrificing Edric Storm. There's no way in he'll he'd sacrifice his daughter.

>>54080026
He probably suspected but didnt care
He probably also knew about Jon

As long as its not public and doesnt hurt his prestige he would do nothing but he would kill them all if revealed.

Robert Killed Jon Arryn to hide his cuckery

>>54068258
>>54068467
it is more likely rob did not have a choice, his men followed him to avange his father and to make themself independent

they might have turned against rob, if he would just bend to stannis without a fight

>>54077444
this

in real history there were cases when the lords have claimed the throne for someone that had the right to rule, fought for the throne and if they win, made that person a puppet king

>>54065963
>unpopular hated pretender sitting on a baren island conquering the throne

Nah fameroni.

>>54100562
t. Renly

>>54067783
>Book Renly was still a great guy,
(not true, by the way)

>>54100565
>you need at least 1 of these to conquer the throne

>important lords of the north
>Lannisters
>Lords of Dorne
>Lords of the vale

What Stannis has, a witch, some pleb tier lords and good contacts. He is a threat but he would NEVER conquer the throne.

>>54100608
Have you not been paying attention to anything in the later books? the motherfucker is busy uniting the north as we speak.

>>54100655
At this point the north is fucked though. Its powers are depleted and in a short while a wave of zombies will crash into it.

>>54100655
Nobody cares about the books, as far as we know he's a gay-hating misogynist that got rightfully beheaded by Brienne the Strong :^)

>>54084755
am I the only one that liked the Quentyn arc?

It was a good story, even read it on spoiling it for you REDDIT, that his arc could mean the real side of adventures.

he was relevant, he had a chance to tame one dragon

why can no one appreciate it? if a hero dies without achieving his goal, does the story sucks?
in batman: dark knight, 2face become 2face, and did not clear gotham from the gangsters, so was the Dark Knight a bad movie?

also Martell mentioned him in the earlier book, so he deserved a little arc

>>54100697
The worst part is I know people that legitimately think that.

>>54100692
This is what angers me about Season 7 in the show.

Daenerys has dragons, an army of Unsullied, Bloodriders and Dothraki, a couple mercenary companies, the Tyrells and unbloodied Dorne (at least 10,000 spears) and a portion of the Iron Fleet...

... And we're to assume Cersei can stop her?

>>54100692
The entire realm is fucked. Stannis is the only one with any serious forces left standing and if he manages to get even a depleted North on his side then he's got a real chance of taking the Throne.

Of course he's not trying to take the Throne anymore and is instead trying to unite the North to fight off the zombies so the whole point is moot.

>>54100721
How the fuck did she get the Iron Fleet in the tv show? I thought they cut Victarion.

>>54100711
Hey, anon. Hey hey, anon.

All they're going to do next season is rip off Aegon's Conquest.

Also, reminder that Doran Martell got murdered by the woman that, in the books, wept at the thought of more war. Stupid man.

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>Stannis is iron but brittle.
Can't believe he outlived everyone

>>54100741
Asha Greyjoy ran off with Theon when Euron was crowned. She makes some speech and *POOF* 100 ships are gone.

No Victarion, no Giga Nigga Moqorro, the leader of the Red Faith is a brown woman because HEY LOOK DIVERSITY, and Asha has what I think was the most offensive inspirational speech I've ever seen to Theon.

>>54100763
How much do you know about iron? It's worth mentioning that cast iron, the stuff Stannis is compared to, has incredible compressive hardness. It will not break under pressure. The only time cast iron falters is when you try to make it bend.

That's Stannis, he's unstoppable unless you force him to admit he's wrong.

>>54100765
The worst part is
>no monkey scene

>>54100765
>Offensive speech

Okay, I'm in a long-ass car ride so I'll just type it out for the giggles.

Asha and Theon are in Volantis (I think,) they're carousing and having a good time between the Free Cities and Mereen. Asha starts making out with a whore to establish she's a strong lesbian or bisexual, how empowering. She makes a snide comment about Theon not being interested, being castrated and all. This upsets him, and she eventually notices he's basically given up at life after his extreme trauma at the hands of Ramsay.

How does Asha comfort her dear brother? She tells him to drink, to "get over it, and if you can't then kill yourself and be done with it." She tells him to live for revenge, that he should endure because he might get to see Ramsay die. This is treated as an empowering moment for Theon, who a couple episodes later is yet again the butt-boy of the show.

>>54100765
>The show is pursuing more DIVERSITY after it angered the SJWs with Sansa's rape
>The show writes a black man out of the plot and writes in a sexy woman instead
Makes you think.

>>54100697
t. BEAUTY

>>54069537

I get this weird feeling they jumped on the SJW bandwagon and decided to make Cersei and Danny the real, true, and only protagonists.

>>54100788
Every single sentence for Victarion is gold, if the Fat Man wrote a book about Vicky G and his whacky adventures around Essos I would buy it Day 1.

>>54100776
If I am not wrong, they compare Stannis to iron because "he will break before he bends", in other words, he will die before he compromises.

>>54100822
Yeah but then character development happened and he learned to compromise so fuck that noise.

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>>54100821
This. Victarion is one of the best characters in the series.

>>54069537
>>54100818
The show doesn't just suffer from shit plot due to Dabid's crayon scribbles, it suffers in writing.

You know what the most profound moment in Season 6 was? When Tyrion was talking to the dragons about when he was a child and wanted a dragon, even if it was just a little one "like me." It was sweet and humanizing, and lifted whole cloth from a conversation between Tyrion and Griff.

Compare that scene to one three episodes later, where Tyrion says his entire character now, "I drink and I know things."

>>54100836
>>54100821
What's so great about Victarion, is it because after a thousand pages of asinine intrigue and subterfuge, he's literally just a dumb brute who stabs the things he doesn't like?

>>54100808
Ironborn were a mistake

>>54101097
Ironborn were cool until Dull and Dastardly put their crayons to writing them, at least I didn't mention the time Asha and Daenerys have an empowering woman moment where they discuss being queens... And then Daenerys demands that, in exchange for the Iron Islands having independence, they aren't allowed to reave, raid or rape anymore. Asha agrees

>>54101120
Euron should have killed Asha when he had the chance

>>54101136
He tried after becoming king, but she got away.

Not until after Theon renounced all claims to the Iron Islands, of course.

Also Jaime still loves Cersei, deep and true. There is no letter-burning in the show. In fact, Jaime fucks Cersei in the White Room, on the table next to the book of records.

>>54101142
>The butchering of Jaime's arc
This hurts me. Also, just asking here, does anyone else read gotgifsandmusings here? It has pretty good insights about the show.

>>54100866
Yes.

>>54100866
Simplicity js best

>>54080026
Any time he wanted to fuck her, she'd get him blackout drunk and finish him off by swallowing. I think there is a quote from her inner monologue about devouring all his would-be princes and princesses.

>>54065963
I like to think that if the Game of Thrones series, or whatever it's properly called, were actually realistic, then the various assholes who run the place would have put slightly lower priority on their dick-measuring contest and a slightly higher priority on the big ol' zombie army approaching them from the North. Get that squared away before they fall to infighting.

History shows that even mortal enemies can be pretty decent against uniting against an outside threat, at least until the threat is dealt with.

>>54102314
the thing is that no one believes the zombie army is actually coming

>>54102349
>Jon Snow sends a guy with a moving zombie hand to King's Landing, to prove that the Others are a real threat
>Tyrion thinks that the guy he sent is an asshole, so he purposedly wastes weeks of his time before finally giving him an audience
>By the time the audience happens, zombie hand stops moving and just turns in a dead hand
>Tyrion believes in his story anyway deep inside, but laughs him off publically, because believing in zombies would hurt his position at court
Naturally, this plot thread is absent from the show, because we can't have our le witty leddit dwarf do anything wrong now, can we.

For the same reason, Shae tried killing Tyrion first in the show, Tyrion came up with the wildfire idea, Jon Snow was killed because le evil racists and Daenerys solved all of the complicated internal problems of Meereen by killing her political enemies, who conveniently all were outside at the time, wearing distinctive masks, so she would know who to kill. You know, just how real terrorists operate!

I fucking hate this show.

>>54094769
>implying jon wouldn't die in a ultimate sacrifice move
>westrros would go back into the backstabbing shithole that it was

>>54097145
He did a good job of producing a finely crafted fecal matter.

>>54099767
Still don't think he'd try to invade a united north.

>>54100808
>"get over it, and if you can't then kill yourself and be done with it."
Best advice for depressed fags really.

>>54102474
It just felt very callous and blunt compared to the progressive bent they were going the past two seasons. It's something Asha would say - maybe, since she really did love her brother - but it felt out of place? I wanted a bit more of building Theon back up.

>>54102414
It still infuriates me how the show completely dumps the Tysha thread by the end of the first season; the whore casually mocks Tysha and Tyrion for thinking she was anything more than a whore, therefore that plot is done with all the pain and revelation you learn during his escape scene.

And then Shae loved him. Shae loved him. Shae, the ultimate whore, the woman whose existence in the books was meant to show just how DESPERATE Tyrion was for affection that he thought a whore loved him, actually did. Fuck that, and damn Durr and Diddle for fucking the fiddle.

>>54103112
>but it felt out of place?
They are ironborn, the meek and squeemish has no place in the isle. Aside from the blatant "lol lesbo" scene, its on point. Surprised she didn't slam a dagger on the table in front of him .

>>54100721
To be fair, Daenerys is an idiot who can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory easily.

>>54103112
>>54103161
Reminder that Victarion's reply to his Maester after the Ironborn gangraped him was, "next time have a dagger, fucking weakling."

>>54103162
But who would win in this battle of the smug victorious faces? Daenerys and Cersei have yet to actually suffer any sort of defeat and are the darlings of the show.

>>54103248
I think all of her children dying is the greatest defeat Cersei can suffer. Daenerys on the other hand, has her entire powerbase crumbling in front of her cause she doesn't know how to run things properly.

>>54103305
Daenerys can walk out of the Dothraki Sea in a torn tokar, sneeze, and get an even more powerfuler powerbase. It is known.

>>54065963
No, Renly would have destroyed his army

>>54100811
>The show is pursuing more DIVERSITY after it angered the SJWs with Sansa's rape
that was the one that really bugged me. after multiple seasons with scenes involving violence against women/women being raped (including a scene where a woman gets stabbed in her pregnant stomach), during which most SJWs praised the show, the breaking point is a non-onscreen rape of a major character that anyone with half a brain could see coming from a mile away.

what a fucking joke. the dumb bitches were probably just bored and latched onto it because they didn't have anything else to complain about.

>>54103881
Do you honestly not see a single problem with Sansa's rape?

>>54103324
Then she'd burn it down somehow.

>>54104000
not him, but I'm curious about what you think the problem was with it

I'm a bit squeamish and definitely didn't like the scene, but I didn't think it was out of place in the show

>>54104000
>a girl shares her wedding night with a man whose hobbies include: flaying people for fun, chasing girls through the woods with his dogs and killing them (for fun), and recently torturing a man so thoroughly that he literally developed a split personally to cope with it.
>the act itself is portrayed as a horrific act by the show, not made light of at all
what did you think was going to happen? that Ramsay fucking Bolton would light candles to set the mood and be gentle with her?

if you were going to be mad about that, you should have done it when Littlefinger first suggested the marriage. that scene was going to happen from the jump. i mean, Season 5 was fucking terrible, but the show didn't use the scene for shock value or portray it with less seriousness than it deserved.

>>54104025
There are several problems with it.
First of all, it doesn't happen in the books. Sansa is never married to the Boltons, and is instead learning from Littlefinger how to become a politician. The unfortunate girl married to Ramsey is Jeyne Poole, a minor character.
But D&D decided that the viewers won't care for a girl's fate, unless it was a major character. So they, against all internal logic of the plot, wrote a ridiculous plot, where Sansa is married off to a sadistic rapist, who promptly rapes her. Willingly. Because she can "control him" and "avenge her family". Avenge her family by being fucked? This makes no fucking sense. So, Sansa even being in this situation makes no sense at all.

Second problem is, why did the writers choose to change the plot in such a way? Yes, merging her character with Jeyne Poole was done to make us more shocked at major character being raped, but there's also another reason, and it's pretty disgusting.
You see, when you analyze the show, you can easily see which characters D&D like, and which they do not. They make it extremely obvious by the way they adapt things. When a character that they like has a bad moment, especially in which they're at fault for something, they write it out of the plot. It consistently happens to Jon and Daenerys, but it happens especially often to Tyrion. D&D fucking love Tyrion. This is why they killed Barristan early on, and made Tyrion assume his role as Daenerys' regent.
However, characters like Stannis and Sansa they do not like. This is why in the show, Sansa has no plan to escape King's Landing - she's handed it by the Littlefinger. This is also why she gets raped.

>>54104189
yeah I agree with all of that, I was just wondering if you had a problem with a rape occurring on the tv show, regardless of the story arc itself

>>54065963
What are you talking about? He is still alive and waging war.

>>54104213
The only reason people got flustered at the rape itself is it happened at the height of SJW culture under Obama on a show that had by then established itself as a major font of diversity and inclusion.

>>54066800
This

At first, Stannis wanted to be the King because, if Jeoffey wasn't his brother's son, then Stannis trully was the rightful heir according to the lawful succession line.
So being the King was his lawful duty.

Then he wanted to be the King because every other candidates were just horrible :

His homo brother was just pure decadence with no backbone, bending over to courtiers (often litterally...). While a good diplomat, he was Stannis younger brother, so his claim was lower than the one of Stannis if law is what matters.

Jeoffrey was a psychopathic boy, product of incest between two Lannisters and clearly the puppet of Tywin, which had already betrayed one of his liege and fathered the kingslayer.

The Starks just wanted to avenge their father, beheaded by said psychopathic boy.
If given reparation, they would step in line, knowing they cannot win a war of attrition so close to the long winter.

Greyjoy is just a pirate king who took the opportunity of the civil war to revolt, hoping to get back at the Starks and at the Crown.
He was a minor annoyance at best that, once the realm united, could be dealt with easily.

When he did learn of the undead problem, uniting the realm seemed all the more pressing.

Remember when Ellaria Sand begged for peace, and Doran acquired the aid of the Sand Snakes to help Targaryens return to power?

Why did DnD have Ellaria smugly kill Doran and Trystan and become the Queen of Dorne?

>>54084808
Seems legit

>>54104189
Why they dislike Sansa so much? It's simple - Sansa doesn't like Tyrion very much. In fact, she kind of hates him, and hates being married to him, because he's an ugly disfigured dwarf, and his family killed her father - and plans to steal her ancestral home through this marriage too.
So, D&D enact a revenge on a character. "Oh, you think your marriage to a witty, kind dwarf was bad? Well, guess what, you get RAPED by a PSYCHO now". This is not a conspiracy theory, when you actually listen to them talk about her marriage to Tyrion, a lot of things instantly become clear.

And there's also a third reason why this scene was bad. It doesn't concern Sansa, but rather Ramsey's character. You see, Ramsey isn't really a big thing in the books. He appears somewhat late in the story, he is only present in Theon's chapters, and he isn't much of a villain - certainly not on the level as his father is, or Euron Greyjoy.
Showrunners are absolutely in love with his character, however. Which is why he spends seasons upon seasons showing us graphic torture porn with Theon, which is why he rapes Sansa, which is why he takes on ironborn while shirtless and he even gets a love interest. A fucking love interest! They even kill off his father - a much more menacing character in the books - just so we could see a psycho rapist on screen more.
This is a problem. Because of how much agency and presence Ramsey has, and how much showrunners bend the story backwards to service him, Ramsey becomes a protagonist of the Winterfell arc.
I mean, can you really argue with that? It's certainly not Sansa - she has neither agency, nor development. It's not Theon either.

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>>54104383
>that whole arc in the show

>>54104383
>Why did DnD kill a male character so yet another queen can rule in Westeros

>>54104383
because of SJW puppetmasters
le gurls rule da wurld

>>54104421
And finally, I'll finish off with how showrunners handled the reaction to their torture porn. This is what they said.
>“This isn’t a timid little girl walking into a wedding night with Joffrey. This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland. Sansa has a wedding night in the sense she never thought she would with one of the monsters of the show. It’s pretty intense and awful and the character will have to deal with it.”
I'll let slide the obvious bullshit with Sansa making a decision, when it was the writers who wrote the plot that way, defying all logic and common sense.
Rather, I'll point attention to the fact that by calling Sansa timid, they miss the point of her character entirely. She is not timid, she is strong - through the books, she stubbornly resists the shittiness around her, she does not give in to abuse, she does not break and most of all - she does not allow the darkness surrounding her to corrupt her. Which is why when Joffrey dies, she isn't overcome with joy. Unlike Arya, Sansa seeks neither revenge, nor death. D&D forget that, when they have Sansa feed her abuser to dogs. Literally. Because violence is empowering! Yaas slay queen!
The showrunners handle another character, Brienne, in a very similiar way, by turning her into a cold-blooded killer - and also the best fighter in Westeros, somehow - when killing people wasn't really the point of her character in the original material.
It's not the only case of a rape being shittily written in the show either. There's a memorable scene of Jaime raping Cersei in the show, which they called "a non-consensual sex that becomes consensual" (?!).

So, no. Rape being part of the story was not the problem. Everything surrounding it was. Why it happened, how it happened, how did they react to the backlack, and what resolution did it get in the end.

>>54104615
Also, yes, they tried to pander to feminists in the last season, by having Cersei commit mass murder (religion is bad, guys!), Sansa feed a man to animals (violence is empowering!), Sand Snakes killing their family for being weak (this is what feminism is all about, isn't it?) and various other things.
This pandering proceeds to fall flat with most people, because D&D understand feminism just about as well as the themes of the source material.

>>54104615
Don't forget The Waif suddenly becoming a villain for literally no reason while Arya somehow learns how to be a cold-hearted assassin without actually assassinating anybody in cold blood.

She fucking kills Meryn Trant who is apparently a violent pedophile? I guess this was a nod back to him slapping and hitting Sansa, but it feels a little unnecessary?

>>54104682
The Meryn Trant thing was just there for the shock value. There's little Dumb and Dumber love more than unnecessary violence, nudity and the like

>>54104653
Did they REALLY need to kill Doran or Trystane? Did they REALLY not have the time or interest to reveal Doran was working with the Targaryens this entire time, and they didn't need the magical Spider to spin that fact for us?

What hurts the most is Trystane was a genuinely friendly, good-natured person, the Sand Snakes kill him in cold blood and laugh at his corpse... And then we need to see them as heroes?

So... Who here has read about the Season 7 spoilers? Because boy oh boy are they enraging.

>>54104758
I gave up during season 4.

>>54104758
what are some of the worse ones?

>>54104682
If I ranted about every sexist addition to the show, I would spend days, if not weeks. Women being catty when they weren't in the books is a common theme in Game of Thrones.
Like, take Cersei and Margaery. In the books, Margaery was a little - if very smart - girl, who was constantly victimized by Cersei, because Cersei is fucking insane. In the show, Margaery is now all catty and insidious, constantly undermining Cersei, and even raping a child. Tommen was still meant to be a child at this point, right?
But the Waif was especially bad, because from a teacher-student relationship they had in the books, it somehow transformed into "two girls compete over man's attention!". What the fuck, D&D? Did you just want an antagonist for this arc? Did this arc really NEED an antagonist?

>>54104734
I think the hacks just don't know what to do with characters that aren't one dimensional. That's why they remove them entirely from the plot.

>>54104786
These are obvious spoilers, so beware.

Tarly betrays the Tyrells because Randyll is a misogynist and sees no future fighting agains the Crown.

Daenerys was described as Aegon with tits, remember? Now, she is literally Aegon with Tits. Jon will be the King who Knelt, Gendry is returning to become a legitimized bastard and wield his father's warhammer, and a combined Tarly/Lannister force will be caught in a Field of Fire 2.

And yet Cersei is still too strong, Jon and Dany need to go North and prove the White Walkers exist!

Viserion dies and is raised as an Ice Dragon by the Night King.

Dany and Jon fuck on a boat.

>>54104734
You pity Trystane? I pity Hizdahr. In the books, he didn't poison the locusts, but he was still a pretty shitty person. In the show, he was genuinely a good guy, who dindu nuffin, was abused by Daenerys for no reason and then died without anyone crying for him.
Rest in peace, Hizdahr, you were too good for this world.

>>54104872
wtf

>>54104872
>Tarly betrays the Tyrells because Randyll is a misogynist and sees no future fighting agains the Crown.
This makes no sense. He betrays Tyrrels, because he hates women, only to join a... Woman, who illegitimately grabbed the throne which she has no claim on?
It's so bad, I instantly believe it's real.

>>54104811
That arc actually had an antagonist in the books, it was Arya's conscience. I don't think Dumb and Dumber could bear to see Arya become the sociopath she becomes in the book.

>>54104914
You're thinking too hard, they're doing it as an excuse to set up the Field of Fire v2, because DnD ran out of good ideas so they're ripping wholecloth from the lore.

>>54104872
Wait... Aren't the Tarlys supposed to be absurdly loyal to the Tyrells? Like, that's one of their big things?

>>54104981
>DnD ran out of good ideas
Since when did this stop them.

>>54104999
Yes, and kinslaying also supposed to be bad, but now suddenly everyone does it in the show.

>>54105012
I mean, they ran out of the simple capacity of formulating a narrative. They're recreating Aegon's Conquest because they literally lack the ability to write anything else to connect the end of Dance with Dragons and Dream of Spring.

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ASOIAF should have had an anime adaptation. The only way to do the scenes and characters in the book justice. I mean, just think about it - Daario Naharis wouldn't look half as absurd, if he was animated.

>>54105081
I would watch an anime of Victarion Greyjoy's adventures with Moqorro and his demon hand.

>>54100866
Mostly

At least they did Lyanna Mormont right.

>>54105081
>Anime Bobby B vs Rhaegar will never happen
Why even live?

>>54105613
You could have sat out 4th season, that one isn't half bad, and has some great moments, a lot with Tywin or Oberyn
The show really takes a dive from the last episode of 4 though
The only reasons why I still watch is first the concept of a battered housewife that still remains with her abusive husband and second I actually hope for the White Walkers to win

>>54105655
Also the fights are actually kind of cool? You can't find big dumb fantasy battles like this anywhere else.

Also, it's fitting to think how the show only truly died when Tywin did.

>>54105728
>the fights are cool?
Fair enough, Hardhome was top tier and the Battle of the Bastards was pretty good, shame they fucked up in the Knights of the Vale showing and most tactical parts, but the cinematography was good

>>54104883
Who deserved the least of the shitty writing of DnD?
Hizdahr and Trystane are good contenders, Stannis is almost too good a contender, Roose is just wasted potential, Jaime is really on his way and the only reason they killed of Barristan was because the actor objected when they suggested they wanted to kill his character. He objected because he felt, rightly so, that Barristan had a big role to play

>>54105850
Wait, so they suggested Barristan die... The actor objected, and in response they killed him off? That's kind of shitty.

To answer your question, Stannis is too obvious and thus isn't worth discussing. Doran was quite literally butchered, but I'd argue Jaime was ruined the most because he had such a GOOD ARC IN SEASON THREE, THAT WAS GENUINELY GREAT STUFF. Dabid had it all laid out for him to become a true knight, and DABID DROPPED IT. DABID STOP.

Jesus Christ this show went off the rails hard. The sad part is more people will remember the show version of the story than the book version for quite some time.

We feel your pain GRRM

>>54106492
As if gurm cared anymore.

>>54106492
GRRM has stopped caring about the books since the Red Wedding aired on the show. If anyone has been paying attention, there was a clear feeling of disillusionment and annoyance throughout all his interviews in the weeks to follow. All of them focus on, "guys... These were in my books... Guys, read them please."

Nobody read them, people were still as shocked at Jon's demise as they were at the Red Wedding or Tywin or anything else. It shows people don't care, they don't fucking care about his books, and GRRM doesn't want to live in the degenerated shadow of his own creation.

>>54107079
To be fair most people don't read them because it's a very dense read.

Honestly, it's Brienne's character arc that pisses me off the most. In the books, she's honorable to a fault, because above all she wants to be a knight, protect the weak, etc. That's the whole point of the great conversations she has with Jaime; she can't understand how someone who had knighthood given to them on a golden platter would scorn it. She can't sleep for weeks when she kills for the first time, and has an amazing breakdown when someone gently tells her her father will miss her if she dies.

And on the show she's a lol gurl power heartless killer with teleportation powers.

John Snow also got all the moral greyness removed from his death in the show.
>Book John gets killed by his comrades with literal tears in their eyes because they think his actions will destroy the Watch
>Show John is killed by ebil wacists who hate the peaceful wildlings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcCawhWkwUg

My favorite bit of the show is how they shit all over one of the most emotionally charged and important parts of the books. Would it really have been so difficult to portray it exactly as it was in Ned's flashback?
Does the whole thing need to be explained by Bran? "THAT'S SER ARTHUR DAYNE!!!"
Did the whole thing need to have the really boring, emotionless swordfighting choreography?
Did they really need to change the extremely iconic dialogue?

Of note, the fighting is about twice as long as the dialogue, which is hilarious considering the fighting was 0% of the flashback.

>>54107173
Well how else could D&D have virtue signalled about their love of immigrants?

>>54107281
>Does the whole thing need to be explained by Bran? "THAT'S SER ARTHUR DAYNE!!!"
Kinda'. Since he doesn't use a greatsword even the book-readers must have needed that particular exposition.

>>54107332
They could have literally just given him the sword. There was no reason for him to have two swords, except maybe he was using the sword of that missing other KG.

>>54107281
Anon please, that was about as important as introducing a mutual love plot between Shae and Tyrion even after they established Tysha was nothing more than a whore.

Tysha was a whore, and she went wherever whores go.

>>54107354
>>54107332
Ned is holding Dawn when he enters the Tower of Joy.

Which pisses me off because Dawn has a blade white as milkglass, but in the show it's a shitty greatsword with a dawn stamped on the pommel.

>>54107381
Guess they didn't want to introduce a second kind of special sword to your average show-watcher.

>>54107400
THEY INTRODUCED TWO IN SEASON 1 AND TWO MORE IN SEASON 4.

>>54107359
>Tysha was a whore

But she wasn't. At least not in the books, which is the only medium that matters.

Shae was 100% a whore, though. Its pretty easy to fake love to a guy who barely knows what that is.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?=LAwRng7pom8
The Boltons completely slaughter Stannis' army with no tension whatsoever. For no real reason, they had thousands of cavalrymen. Apparently, Stannis routs into the forest miles behind him.

>>54107448
Tysha is mentioned once in the show, Season 1. Shae points out after the story that "no woman would want sex that soon after an attempted rape, she's a whore."

And that's that. The last we hear about Tysha.

>>54107459
The cavalry were the mercenaries Stannis hired who defected after he burned his daughter alive.

>>54107487
They were also Bolton's entire army.

>>54107459
>>54107471
>>54107487
>>54107493
WHO RUNS AN ARMY OF PURE CAV AGAINST A FORCE OF PIKEMEN ON A RIDGE

WHO THINKS THAT WINS

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Assassination is a lot harder in real life than it is in GRRM's mind. Sure, " hunting accidents" did happen, as did occasional events like the Red Wedding, but instant death poisons, shadowbabies, and impossibly competent shapeshifting killers for hire would leave any world in near-constant anarchy until someone came up with effective coubtermeasures.

>>54107534
THE CRAYONS DON'T LIE, ANON. THEY SCRIBBLE THE TRUTH.

>>54107471
The lack of that totally fucked two of the most best scenes of that book, between Tyrion and Jamie, and Tyrion and Tywin.

>>54107557
But anon, how could Duke and Dunce know that? It's not like they read the books.

Also, Tysha existing clearly puts the blossoming LOVE between Shae and Tyrion into question.

>>54107538
The shapeshifting killers are extremely rare and also have their weird religious thing to where they're a lot more than assassins for hire.

The shadowbabies the same, few people know how to do it. It's not a Lord of Light thing, it's an Assai thing.

>>54107553
God damn it, it makes me miserable every time I think about it. Stannis was robbed, so he was. Robbed of any triumph by men that talked about hating him in any and all interviews on the subject.

>Peek at Reddit
>"Dude, it's good that they didn't adapt Lady Stoneheart. We have more Beric this way. HE HAS A FLAMING SWORD, DUDE"

>>54107538
To be fair, the shadow babies are forbidden sorcery practiced by a rare few and at a great cost, as they literally took away Stannis' "lifeforce" and creating a third one might have killed him. Agreed on the poison that kulled Joffrey, even if has been rarely used.

>>54107629
>practiced by a rare few and at a great cost
Hell, Mel might literally be unique.

>>54107622
The deepest irony of that statement the user was likely too ignorant to realize is that Thoros has always called the flaming sword a dumb gimmick that cheats the power of the real deal.

It's useless special effects even in the universe.

>>54107622

They should have done it back at the end of Season 3. Shame, as Beric's arc where he's tired of his quasi-immortality is neat and they just axed that. Also the idea of a vengeful wraith preying on those who wronged her in life is straight out of Scotch folklore.

>>54107646

The shadowbinders are native to a far Eastern Lovecraftian land, so it's likely she's the only one in Westeros.

>>54065963

No.

He couldn't politic at all, and even if by some miracle he managed to take the throne he'd never be able to hold it. The kingdom would fracture and he'd be shedding huge amounts of territory in the best case.

>>54108152
Showfag detected.

>>54067756
I don't see how anyone could call that evil, Renly was trying to kill him

>>54108354
For some reason people always seem to overlook his murderous tendencies because he's gay.

>>54108152
Stannis could politik just fine, the issue came from him never actually holding genuine power. People scoffed at him because they could afford to scoff at him, yet everyone under his command were, as we've seen many times, almost fanatically devoted. The guy can't win the Throne, but he could rule from it.

Hell, I'd go so far as to say he's got notes of Alfred the Great in him, being a slight and vaguely sick man of laws and figures.

>>54108188
>thinking the books are good

GRRM makes a good story but his writing is awful. He should stick to DMing.

>>54108598
The only person I've ever seen write a child well was that guy doing the Last Kingdom series. Uhtred and his adventures are insufferable but Æthelflæd was the cutest cinnamon bun in every scene she was in. Fuck, same with the other kids.

>>54100763
Why does everyone take the word of a one armed blacksmith as gospel?

>>54108651
Unless implied otherwise, a fact stated by an innocuous minor named character should be taken as a fact stated by the author.

>>54108651
I mean, he was right, so there's that.

>>54108726
Oh, don't get His Type started on things being "Right".

>>54108651
He's full of folk wisdom.

>>54108757
The folk also think mice are born of straw and birds come from trees.

>>54108651
He's old, a blacksmith AND a cripple, what else do you want?

>>54108753
>Cersei was right and did nothing wrong

>>54108844
By the show, this is true.

>>54069568
>because his bottom told him he should be king
Show only. In the book he's been politicking for years.

>>54070090
It's never explicit. The closest we get to a confirmation is the way Loras responds when when Jaime asks about the vow of celibacy:
>Once the sun has set, no candle can compare
Also, Loras goes into a murderous rage when Renly dies and kills all the witnesses. That's not the kind of thing a straight platonic friend does.

The show can't into subtlety though, and they wanted to win browny points, so they slapped the audience in the face wih it.

>>54098239
>No wildfire
Wildfire didn't win the battle. As with everything bad that happens, it can be traced to the Tully's.

>>54109111
>The Tullys
>Not the (((Grey Rats)))

>>54109143
>Believing crazy conspiracy theories by a bitter woman, who's constantly angry because she didn't get Stark dick

>>54108916
To put Margaery on the throne next to Robert, not to make himself king.
>>54109041
Also the line where Jaime tells Loras to sheath his sword or he'd stick it somewhere even Renly never found.
>>54109111
The Others decided to invade because of the Tullys?

>>54109164
To be fair, Doran believes it.

>>54109192
You imply that the others invading is bad. But seriously Stannis lost the battle of blackwater because of the Tullys. This is an undeniable fact.

>>54109164
She did get Stark dick, it was just never going to marry her and it also died because he's a retard and the king was insane.

>>54109208
Sure, the Tullys fucked up by sending the Lannisters back east but Robb really should have explained his plans to his subcommanders. He can't be mad if his lords hit targets of opportunity.

So, like everything bad in ASoIaF it can be traced back to the Starks.

>>54109208
>>54109262
Actually it was Jon Arryn's fault, if he didn't jump start Robert's Rebellion literally nothing bad in the books would have happened.

>>54109279
Actually, it's Rickard's fault for having southron ambitions.

>>54109279
Except that he knew what he was doing, and did the right thing. The Tullys just fuck up everything.

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>>54109297
fuck off preston

>>54109279
>>54109297
>>54109299
Guess, it's clearly Aegon's fault for conquering westeros.

>>54109314
I recently talked with Preston on leddit. I never watched any of his videos, and only heard that he's nutty, so I never expected him to turn out that much of a loon.
>Victarion's lava hand is not real, he only thinks it's stronger and healed. Because actually, it's never been wounded at all!
Yeah, guess Victarion hallucinated that sword piercing his arm. And then the maester hallucinated the festering wound.

>>54109365
What the fuck.

Hit me up with this wild ride, fampai.

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>>54109401
>The hand isn't stronger. Victarion thinks the arm is stronger, which was never injured.
>I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just pointing out that GRRM puts a whole bunch of elements in to give us pause and make us doubt the POV and the truth.
>The quick interpretation is that Victarion has a magic strong hand now with no explanation other than "magic." But what is really going on? GRRM usually has a twist - something lurking underneath.

Stannis will do great things in the north, but will keep getting cucked by one problem or another of his ultimate prize. The prophecy will shit on him; he can't be the prince that was promised, but he can be a hero.

It's less a question of if he will be able to take the throne, and more a question of how he considers his claim to it against that of an alleged trueborn Targaryen.
IIRC, he's discarded out of hand so far the rumours that the valyrian kids were still alive, and hasn't been in a position since going north to hear about all the ruckus in Mereen.

>>54110306
I can see him bending the knee to Daenerys.

>>54110335
If she's smart, she'll remind him that house Baratheon only exists because the Targaryens made it exist.

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>>54110360
>If she's smart
Anon....I

>>54110380
Come on Eris, don't worry too much. It's possible she'll go through rapid montage character growth so the narrative can move on from Mereen alreay.

>>54100822
They say he is "pure iron" which is stupid because pure iron is rather malleable and soft compared to steel or cast iron.

>>54110567
They probably meant cast iron, as in he's impossible to break under pressure, but will break if bent from his morality.

>>54102314
Grrm tries so hard to make it "gritty and realistic" that he ends up with cartoon characters where everyone is an asshole all the time and yet somehow wins. Reality is usually not as black.

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>>54066711
They are on two seperate timelines
But I hate how they confirm certain plot ideas

>>54104811
>Tommen was still meant to be a child at this point, right?
apparently he was supposed to be aged up to 18 in the 5th season

>>54104811
>>54111152
tommen isn't 18, he's more like 14-15 in the show so they could make Margaery fuck him, him want it because he's a horny teen, and it not be really fucked up that Margaery who is like 20 in the show would fuck a literal 9 year old.

>>54110603
"Bend the knee" is also a common phrase in the series.

>>54107281
those flashbacks were Hack and Fraud at their worst

I still can't get over how they have a flashback to winterfell before Hodor got mindraped for absolutely no reason whatsoever, purely because they couldn't think of any other way to make the hold the door shit work. That whole hold the door shit was fucking retarded too. They know the Night King knows where they are, so instead of running away they start talking about cooking breakfast or some shit. What the fuck?

>>54107622
>We have more Beric this way
He's been in what, three episodes?

>>54104383
I was infinitely confused when she was shown being crowned. Ramsey? Ramsey I was forced to tolerate, because the show was propping him up as a marty stu, because the Boltons are insane, because his men had to already be in fear of the dogfucker. Disbelief suspended a mile high through sheer force of will about them not having cared for Roose more.

But fucking Ellaria?
What was her claim? How would she convince the court? How would she convince the people? What maneuvering had she possibly been doing? There's no sense, there's no coherency. She just makes a hand wave statement that "the people are sick of your weakness, Doran," and bam, she's Queen.
FUCK

And when Jaime was holding his dying daughter, what the fuck was to stop him from just turning the boat around and confronting Doran that Ellaria had *immediately*
broken her vow?

>>54105850
Sam Tarly could have used better writing, or at least more of his journey. n the books he literally goes through a hellsih sea voyage, and almost doesn't make it to Oldtown. All gone, and sea travel is quick efficient and easy.

>>54111985
Yeah, wasnt Ellaria literally just a random prostitute Oberyn had the most kids with?
She literally has about a much a claim on the throne of Dorne as Edric Storm's mother has on the fucking Iron Throne.

>>54083141

He didn't understand why his brother was so flippant in a dangerous situation. Like Odysseus when he kills the lead suitor, who salutes him with a cup.

Renly was treating life like a stupid game while Stannis would treat a stupid game like it was as serious as death.

>>54112269
It's hard to imagine Stannis coming from the same family as the other Baratheons

>>54112269
stannis the kind a nigga who'd pledge a blood feud against someone who fucked him in monopoly

>The Waif is being mean to my waifu WAAAH!

I'll admit I've never read the books, but isn't the whole point lf the faceless assassin guild is that everyone ends up being "No one"? So how can the Waif be antagonistic, if she is already no one. I thought that whole arc was the faceless men telling Arya she didn't really want to be one of them and The Waif was as much a teacher as anyone. It seemed a pretty clever plot for Game of Thrones, so I'm surprised people didn't like it.

>>54112368
>I thought that whole arc was the faceless men telling Arya she didn't really want to be one of them
so why did they try to kill her when she ran off

>>54112377
It was a test and attempt to break her from her highborn ego.

>>54112393
and that's why the Waif stabbed Arya in the gut (which is fatal in those days) and left her for dead?

>>54112415
Arya kills her, but not really cause she's just No One, and finishes her test. Arya replaces The Waif as a super assassin, but ultimately fails becoming No One. Then after that who knows what the Faceless men expect from Arya, she's apparently left the country, but I doubt she's free from them yet.

>>54112538
doesn't mate sense m8

>>54112674
The whole arc is about giving up your identity. To an order of ninja assassins who demand strange payments to do right by their enigmatic moral system. They take Arya, constantly jerk her around for having an ego, push her to her limits, and make her realize she really wants to be Arya Stark after all. The whole arc is about coming to terms with yourself. Which is what The Waif keeps telling her throughout her training. The Faceless men traded one Nobody for whatever plan they have for Arya now.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

>>54112368
You don't merely chase someone off you've already revealed your secrets to.
The whole point in the books of Arya going there was that she was trying to use the Faceless Men to learn to be a better assassin without giving in, but willingly submits herself to their trials and tutelage because it's the best option she has. She doesn't get blinded by acting out like the spoiled willful brat she used to be and violating their trust (too early); they give her the proverbial koolaid in the form of poisoned milk and she drinks it willingly, every time, even though she knows it's poisoned.

Her rebellion against them is maybe inevitable, but DnD gutted the characterization of both parties in an attempt to speed that arc along.

>>54100703
>so was the Dark Knight a bad movie?
yes, for a Batman movie, it was terrible.

>>54100833
>40 year old man
>just now learns to compromise
Character development is dumb unless the character starts from a reasonable place to develop from. It would have made more sense for him to continue to refuse to compromise, given his age.