Eldar at their height vs Humanity at it's height who

>>54053123
Humans?

>>54053123
Both are pretty unquantifiable.

Eldar, they couldn't even be bothered to feel threatened by the mon'keighs.

>>54053123
Probably humans. Do the Eldar have thousands of nukes? Nukes from space, nukes from ships, from underwater?

>>54053680
Before the Fall, when Humans were on their golden age, mankind was barely a beep on the radar. It may be also due to them doing many drugs and ignoring the radar, but still.

>>54053123
DA ORKS YOO STOOPID PANSY! NOW STOP MUKKIN ABOUT AND FETCH ME MORE DAKKA!

>>54053630
>couldn't even be bothered to feel threatened by the mon'keighs.
According to the visions in the second Macharius books, the other colonies were feeling threatened by DAoT humanity, but the Core was too busy having their murder orgy to care (and ended up accidentally the DAoT humans anyway).

>>54053123
I don't think they are really comparable.
The height of the eldar (technologically, not culturally) was during the war in heaven, when they used warp entities for fighting and their tech came directly from the old ones. The eldar are actually surprisingly stagnant when it comes to technology, as most everything they use originates from the old ones.
Once the old ones died out and the war was over, the eldar kinda "lost touch" with their tech, as can be seen with them starting to worship the warp entities like khaine as gods, when originally they were psychic weapon constructs to be used by the eldar like tools. Ironically, the regression of their technological know-how is pretty ironic and quite akin to the same problem the Imperium faces currently.
However, while they were technologically stagnated (no noticable developements over the course of 6 million years), they did have quite a cultural developement, which did inevitably lead to the fall.
The eldar empire during the dark age of technology was the rotting remains of a once great people ruined by peace, deliquincy, degeneracy and arroant belief in their supposed superiority (just like the Imperium). All in all, they were still incredibly powerful, even at this stage in their history.

>>54055516
That part of the Macharius was edited out in recent copies.

>>54055695
>no noticable developements over the course of 6 million years

IIRC all the stuff aspect warriors use is relatively recent.

>>54053123
Necrons

>>54055718
Thanks, I feared for human-wank damaging the lore.

>>54055695
Cont.
The humans, on the other hand, were quite adaptable and very aggressively expanding during this period in time, both technologically and of course, colonizing the galaxy and all. Towards the end of the DAOT, humanity had probably colonized/conquered most of the galaxy, as evidenced of finding humans all the way out in the halo star regions or even in the "eastern" expanse of the galaxy (e.g. ultramar). The eldar empire had retracted back on to their homeworlds, to engage in their orgies and indulgence of degeneracy.

Another point is to consider that, if current Imperial weaponry is sufficient to take out and destroy the Eldar of 40k, then the DAOT tech should certainly be more than a match for them. The humans were capable of shitting out weapons of mass distruction in the billions due to STC's, and had a huge amount of resources and manpower to call upon during a war, not even mentioning the men of iron and the men of gold. Human DAOT tech, while definently not surpassing the Eldar in compexity or level, most certainly equalled them in destructive power and capability, while being far more crude and simplistic.
The reason the humans and eldar never had an all out war though, if the humans could beat them so easily, was the webway, which offered the eldar a distinct logistical advantage. If Humanity were to ever declare war on the remains of the eldar empire, terra would be destroyed within hours and humanities leadership shattered and thus leaving their powerful fleets and armies crippled and vulnerable. The human DAOT empire had very slow warp travel, like the Imperium, and so would be destryed by hit and run style attacks on their worlds by the eldar.

>>54055783
>We know from Deimos that the Admech have the technology on Mars to teleport a moon across the solar system into stable orbit of another world
>The civilization that likely created this technology, was considered a threatening only by the outermost colonies of the Eldar Empire, the rest couldn't be bothered to stop having an orgy to notice
>waaaaaaaaahhh human-wank!
Eldarfag sure are a sensitive bunch.

>>54055783
>not favoring humans over filthy alien scum
Inquisition would like to have a word with you, heretic.

I havent seen much Eldar tech comparable to the height of DAoT, i.e sun killers, planet eaters, system sized megaconstructs, single pilot craft that can 1 shot Imp Navy cruisers etc.

>>54055753
More of a "spiritual" developement than a technological one, trying to channel their feelings and minds to protect them from slaneesh. As I said, the Eldar did develop culturally, but technologically they were quite stagnant. Remember, the old ones built them, like the orks, as a tool too be discarded once they had fulfilled their use.

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>>54055940
And Eldar are able to steal suns.

>>54053123
God that style of art is utterly disgusting. I hate everything that school of 40k cover art touched.

>>54053123
Necrons

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>>54056003
And the DAoT may have been able to do that too. We also know that the DAoT could, in an environment where Imperial Ships could barely detect each other at void-relative point blank range, lockonto and destroy with pin-point accuracy a holofielded Eldar ship, by firing a black hole.
And in Death of Integrity, we know that DAoT ships are also capable of targeting, and destroying with a single-shot, fully shielded and operation admech warships, from the core of a moon-sized space hulk.
And yet, it's "Damaging the lore" with "human-wank" that such a civilization was "threatening", not "dangerous to", but merely "threatening", to the outer most fringe colonies of the Eldar.
Can you show me on the doll where the human fluff touched you?

>>54056063
This. Erik Morkai, the marine in the picture, is ridiculously massive, as in Primarch-tier massive. I prefer the old school marines from Rogue Trader.

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But anon, pic related wins

>>54056115
We barely know what Eldar were actually capable off, this piece of fluff isn't even from their height. Ever considered that you can name all these awesome sounding toys because the writing spends so much more time on the Imperium and all Eldar get is some vague "undisputed masters of the galaxy"?

>>54056168
>>54056063
It's not necessarily the height or size of him, it's the fucking proportions. The fact he seems to be a geodude with a peanut head and 20ft hosepipe legs. The fact that everything is swirling silver edgy spikes and that is EVERY SINGLE LAYER of the image from smoke to armor to skin.

It is absolute, cg rendered, shitfest nightmare. Ugly artwork.

>>54055929
Final.
So to summarize:
Height of humanity (DAOT) vs. Height of the eldar (War in heaven)
Eldar are the clear victors here, no contest. Controlling literal gods, being backed up with the most advanced tech of the universe (old ones), the best logistical system ever created (webway), and what were back then, human breeding rates and an entire galaxy of resources to fall back upon, these are no small feats. The Eldar would stomp DAOT humanity, they would be a spark in the explosion that was the war in heaven.

If we pit DAOT humanity against the eldar empire of their time, it becomes a much, much, MUCH closer matchup. In a 1v1, all human military assets vs. all eldar military assets, humans win quite easily. Their tech, while simpler, was more powerful, and their numbers FAR superior to those of the eldar.
In reality, however, the war would go quite horribly for humanity. The webway, along with the eldars stereotypical hit and run tactics would wear down the humans to the point of desperation. Key targets would obviously be command hubs, like terra, or logistical centers and manufacturing worlds. In the end, humanity would probably direct their final efforts to a final push into eldar territory, towards their homeworlds. Presumably, due to their numbers and military strength, the humans would obliterate the eldar empire, and take the seat as masters of the galaxy, take over the webway, like the emperor planned. However, it would be a rather narrow victory, leaving their empire in ruined tatters from fighting th only oher galactic superpower during their age.

Gotta give humanity credit, though, as while the Eldar never really developed any weapons or tech on their own, apart from what they got from the old ones, the humans managed to outpower their 60 million year empire within 20.000 years. I don't even want to know what humanity could have become if they had had 60 million years of undisturbed peace and prosperity.

>>54056295
Tl;dr
Eldar (WiH)>>>>>>>>>>>Eldar Empire (60 million years of peace)> DAOT Humanity=DAOT Eldar>Great Crusade Era Imperium>Current 40k Imperium>Current Craftworld Eldar/Dark Eldar

Necrons are somewhere near the top as well. So are orks, nids and chaos, but only with enough numbers. Tau fit neatly in the very bottom.

Fuck Eldarfags, tho.

Didn't DAOT mankind have Matrioshka brains?

>>54056243
Because the concept of "humans but better" is so dreadfully boring that no one wants to write it. Eldar are intrinsically boring.

>>54056275
Now that you mention it, yeah, i gotta agree with you.

>>54056469
Do you even understand the narrative role of the Eldar in this setting? Do you think "humans are better" is the height of creativity? Do you think "[self-insert-faction] is better in everything it ever does" is a great way to construct a setting?

>>54055929
“Lhaerial shifted her gaze to Veritus, and her hard eyes made him flinch as if she saw something in his mind and reflected it back upon him. ‘The idea appeals to your vanity? You were correct in what you were saying, through there. You are a tool to us. Our people ruled the stars when this world was ruled by reptiles. Many came against us – the soulless ones, the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable, the cythor and a thousand other races so terrible your intellects could not contemplate them. Even your own ancestors and their unliving legions at the so-called height of their mastery. We defeated them all”

Excerpt From “Throneworld.”

There is this bit, but it's from the mouth of a captured eldar...

>>54053123
They literally coexisted. The Eldar were always more supreme than the DAoT mankind.

How numerous were the necrons during the War in Heaven ? Could they, at their peak, defeat the Tyranids ?

>>54056735
>the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable
This is probably my favorite part of this, because there must have been a conflict between the Eldar and the Orks after they both lost their masters. And the war between them must have been bloody and glorious.

>>54056735
I'll put some of this on the Eldar arrogance and poetic exaggeration.

>>54056735
.....very interesting.

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>>54056395
Nope, the fluff says that the Tau are technologically superior to the Imperium.

>>54056779
>Could they, at their peak, defeat the Tyranids ?

Quite easily considering that had ultimate mastery over all space and time in the galaxy at the time.

The Necrons in the War in Heaven vastly outnumbered mankind. Now after the Great Sleep, they are equally as numerous as mankind.

>>54053123
eldar are taller than a human on average

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>>54057197
/thread

>>54056395
>Eldar (WiH)>>>>>>>>>>>Eldar Empire (60 million years of peace)> DAOT Humanity=DAOT Eldar>Great Crusade Era Imperium>Current 40k Imperium>Current Craftworld Eldar/Dark Eldar

You are retarded. The fluff is clear that the Dark Eldar and Eldar are way above the Imperium and they are the only factions that have some chance of grasping some basic concepts of the Necron tecn

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>>54057137
Fucking lol.

How will Impfags ever compete?


....
>be me
>stand up
>wipe my eyes
>"I-I'm not m-mad"
>"T-this is perfectly fine"
>Single tear runs down my face
>"Why GW, w-why....."
>"sob"

>>54057232
I'm talking "all out war 1v1" power level, not tech level. Oviously Eldar/Deldar are way more fucking advanced than the imperium.

That doesn't mean that the Imperium isn't capable of crushing commaragh under its heal, though. If they were able to focus enough resources on them, that.
Reading comprehension, bro. Learn it.

>>54053123
Both were pretty even but Eldar generally had the edge.
>>54053630
We're talking Dark Age, anon, not Emps.

>>54057685
Imperium has always been capable of winning 1v1 against anything.

>>54058145
>>54057232
Imperium wins vs most anything because all the stronger empires are dead.

>>54057685
My mistake then.

>>54058235
Exactly. But what specifically Imperium cannot 1v1?

>>54058235
>orks stronger than ever
>necrons rising
>eldar only weak because they shot themselves in the foot thousand years ago
>tyranids not stopped
>tau getting stronger
>chaos probably winning anyway
Did I forget anyone?

>>54058303
All the empires from before 40k, like the necrons, ancient eldar, great crusade humanity, DAOT humanity would stomp the imperium.
Currently? As >>54058304 says.
The Imperium could probably take on the guys from his list in a pure, 1 on 1 fight and win. (Tau, orks, Nid vanguard fleets, crippled eldar)
Logically speaking, though, Imperium definently loses in the long run.

>>54058304
>Throneworld
That's the novel where Custodes got their asses handed to them, by a bunch of Harlequins.

Take it with a handful of salt.

>>54058750
Meant to >>54056735

>>54053123
If theyre at their height that means their not pants on head retarded and so they wouldnt waste their time fighting opponets on such a level.
Nor would they see any to fight against one another given the way the 40K galaxy is like.

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>>54058904
>what is the war in heaven?
>what is the expansion of mankind during the DAOT?

>>54058767
Yes, agreed. harlequin porn. That's the reason I added the prisoner context for those who had not read it yet.

Still, wonderful to angry custodian fans...

>>54059110
also, Hugo Weaving as Eldrad...

>Humans unleash the Iron Men on Eldar
>Eldar get stomped by basically the Necrons Redux.

Does anyone actually think the sort of art in the OP is cool?

>>54059110
Any Eldar fluff book is usually a hilarious wankfest that reeks of Anime trash

Case in point, OP's pic with a fucking Katana.

>>54059227
But that didn't happen, at all.

>>54059227
>>54056735

>>54059347
>>54059260

>Until shortly before the Age of Strife, the Men of Iron were loyal only to Mankind, and served as their army. They came after the Men of Stone, but before the advent of servitors. In M23, they turned on their Human masters, believing themselves superior to the Humans who relied on the Men of Iron to do virtually everything for them. What followed next was an apocalyptic conflict known as the Cybernetic Revolt, a war so destructive it made the Horus Heresy seem small in scale. The Men of Iron employed world-consuming constructs, devices that could destroy suns, weapons that could throw entire continents into the heavens, and swarms of nano-machines that covered entire planets. However in the end, the Men of Iron were destroyed by an alliance of galactic powers.[3] It is unknown of this alliance was strictly Human.

I mean I understand Eldarfags don't actually understand the setting beyond 7th edition fluff from Eldar books, but the Men of Iron were a galactic level threat that would have made the Tyranids childish in size.

>>54058750
In a small small defense, if I remember correctly the custodes were basically naked and most of the fights where harlies kicked ass were 2v1 with a shadowseer and troupe leader vs a single custode repeatedly, so those line ups may make sense, but then we look at how I'm the hell did the harlies run into that many naked custodes that close to the throne and none of the custodes got the idea to team up the defense pretty much falls apart to silliness

>>54059421
Good thing this threat got defeated by >>54056735

>>54059495
So the Harlequin confirms the Eldar were in the Alliance of Galactic powers that defeated the Men of Iron.

Good to know.

>>54059421
>Humans make faulty robots that turn against them
>Eldar don't even notice and party so hard the Human Empire collapses

Nice military threat.

>>54059562
>Need to join a Galactic Alliance to defeat them.

Nice Military strength Eldar Empire.

>>54059584
Where's the proof?

>>54059584
>Implying it wasn't the imperium asking for help and the elder were smart enough to think "hey sentient robots would be stronger empire than humans" to ensure their empires safety

>>54059605
Literally the fluff from the Men of Iron.

It took a Galactic Alliance to end them, Period.

>>54059620
>Damage controls because he wanks Eldar off That hard
>Tries to use an Eldar talking shit as proof Eldar are amazing.

As an Eldar player who loves HFY, this thread is giving me confusing thoughts.

>>54056735
>our ancestors were a million times better than yours!!!!1!!1!!!!
>get captured
Impressive, truly impressive.

>>54059636
>It took a Galactic Alliance to end them, Period.

A galactic alliance doesn't mean Eldar were involved. Infact the Eldar tells us that they defeated mankind and their unliving legions, so clearly they beat the shit out of the men of iron before they rebelled.

Maybe that's what caused their rebellion, they were so butthurt at their spanking they could only lash out against their masters.

>>54059680
>This Eldar Harlequin is totaly telling the truth
>And indeed, we believe this one Eldar clown over the recordings we previously had.

I think >>54059669

Put it best.

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>>54056066
No contest

>>54059713
>>This Eldar Harlequin is totaly telling the truth

As much a reliable character as Abnett's shitty OC.

>I think >>54059669
>Put it best.

I don't think he's even read the story, because the Eldar got captured on purpose.

>>54059669
Actually, it's impressive that less than 10 space clowns managed to storm the emprah's sanctum and get as far as the final door, slaughtering custodes left and right...

Even if she got captured, that is an incredible feat...

So incredible, that one has to take it with salt...

>>54059772
>I got captured on purpose
>I am totally telling the truth, for as you know my race is totally known for being honest and not manipulative and unreliable sources of infomation.

And here we come to the crux of the argument. It's BL books, aka, stuff you can actively ignore.

The Men of Iron were in the 3rd edition rulebook. Sorry Carnac, you're wrong.

>>54059795
And then a fuckload of Harlequins and also Eldrad got rekt by a single squad of Deathwatch.

Eldar wank, lol.

>>54053123
Eldar. Humanity's high point was the Dark Age of Technology and the Eldar didn't even consider them or even the Orks to be any sort of threat worthy of actual attention.

ITT:

>Altharius, which meant in the ancient inscrutable Eldar tongue The Most Elegant of Nobility in The Arts of Graceful Warfare and Majestic Pottery pointed his elegant weapon at the apish space marines, the squad ripped apart by a graceful hail of deadly shuriken fire, the advanced psycho reactive monomolecular wraithbone edges ripped apart their crude armor like a swarm of vengeful wraithbees defending their spirithoney from the starbears of ancient Eldar mythology.

>Still for every crudely clad clunky stupid clumsy monkey marine killed, a dozen swarmed in to take its place. Their clumsy boxcars puttered slowly towards the elegant firing lines of the most ancient eldritch elegant Eldar, blown away by graceful deadly brilliant lances of energy from the vengeful lances of the glorious guardian squad Thethaliusomis which meant in the ancient Eldar tongue The Squad of Most Righteous Invincible Unwavering Noble Craftsmen Who Craft Death as Elegantly As Their Earthenware.

>Altharius danced gracefully through the clumsy bolts belched by the marine's crude gun, if such a clumsy device could even be called a weapon, dispatching one after another with elegant sweeps of his monomolecular finely crafted gem encrusted graceful blade made from the psychoreactive wraithbone, testament to the Eldar psychic and technological mastery.

>A stray bolt shell farted through the air and struck Altharius upon his noble chest, but the amazing psycho reactive wraithbone armor of the Eldar which was as flexible as the most sheer silk elegantly shifted and hardened harder than the hardest of hardturtles of ancient Eldar mythology to deflect the crude monkeyshot, veering it into the face of another clumsy marine standing beside him.

>>54059815
>>I got captured on purpose
>>I am totally telling the truth

So obviously you've not read the story, because the only reason the Eldar were there was to deliver a message and they went full well knowing that they'd probably die or be captured.

>The Men of Iron were in the 3rd edition rulebook.

But your galactic alliance bullshit is from a BL audio book. So either you can accept BL in which Eldar beat their ass, or you can reject BL in which case Eldar never even bothered interacting with them.

Choose.

>>54059861
>Altharius then somersaulted through the air dancing across the sky like the great elegant hunting falcons of Eldar mythology and in his descent his elegant heel caved in the helmet of one of the crude armor clad monkeys and used the building momentum to spin cartwheeling towards the leader of the marines, a great ugly brute with crooked teeth and a lazy eye and ruddy wrinkly skin his crude armor garishly covered in seals and with the crudely banged out symbol of his clumsy god emperor scrawled upon his crude armor. The simple creature's dumb farm animal eyes widened in fear as the spinning whirlwind of eldritch ancient elegant destruction spun towards him and in a graceful flash of majestic advanced wraithbone he was cut cleanly in two by the elegant gem encrusted monomolecular edge. Its kidneys, backup kidneys, secondary kidneys, and deluxe double black kidneys all fell out of his body with a disgusting ploop.

>Their leader dead, the marines hopped back into their boxes and puttered away, but there would be no escape for the crude monkeys as their clumsy retreat was cut apart by an elegant hail of deadly monomolecular shuriken discs and graceful lances of light that cut through the air like the legendary glowwyrms of Eldar mythology which once aided The Ancient Mythological Eldar God Vaul as he got lost in the spiritwoods in the legendary mythologies of the Eldar's ancient past.

>Altharius was glad the war was over and looked forward to returning to walking the graceful path of the potter which staved off the temptations of Slaanesh but he walked a razor's edge between indulgence and the trappings of the path which the brilliant Eldar mind could fall to such was the tragedy of his people.

>>54059874
Or we can accept the Eldar was talking shit?

How about that Carnac?

>>54053123
They debate briefly, then the Farseers and Emperor sit down for a cup of tea and agree to stomp everyone ELSE first (except the Tau, they get conscripted) before resuming fighting each other.

Chaos gets rekt, Tyranids get swatted, Necrons decide to sleep in. Everything goes hunky-dory.

Except this is 40k, so things turning out well never happens. Thus, this result vanishes in a puff of logic.

>>54059899
Or that Abnett's OC is talking shit.

>>54059830
Yup, at least it's not a full curb stomp...

Still, it's a little less ridiculous than the throneworld scene, which is almost mont'ka levels of retardation...

>>54059928
So let me get this straight.

You're arguing that everything about the Men of Iron being this huge galactic wide threat is false, and instead, the Eldar were just so strong and uber powerful they could have dealt with the Men of Iron with absolute ease, but Eldar didn't need to.

Tell me then, if the Eldar were so strong, how did the Dark Age of Humanity come to basically own the Galaxy due to their supreme expansionist attitudes?

I mean I know the reason, I just want to understand how Carnac's fanwankery works.

>>54059970
>You're arguing that everything about the Men of Iron being this huge galactic wide threat is false

Yes.

>Tell me then, if the Eldar were so strong, how did the Dark Age of Humanity come to basically own the Galaxy due to their supreme expansionist attitudes?

They didn't. I don't think you understand quite how large the galaxy is. They didn't dominate shit. They were spread widely but thinly over it.

The Eldar were at that point inward focusing as well. They'd have no reason to stop mankind from spreading unless they tresspassed on Eldar worlds.

>>54059970
Carnac doesn't believe anything he says, you fucking retards. He's just a very dedicated troll.

Remember 'BLOOD FEUD"? Probably not.

The point is he will argue with anyone about anything as long as the opinion is unpopular.

>>54060033
He is rather pathetic.

The truth is we don't know how big the interaction between the Eldar and Humans were back then.

I always assume it was like Star Trek, and the Men of Iron were like the Borg in terms of uniting empires to combat them.

>>54059970
What if both sides have it right? DAOT mankind with iron men was 'defeated' by the eldar empire in the few battles they fought , but the rebellion required the grand alliance?

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>>54059861
>>54059888

>>54059970
I think the eldar owned the galaxy in a de jure way by being known as the ascendant race of the galaxy but they didnt really leave the comfort of the core worlds unless you were atraveling craftworld an explorer or an exodite.

Humanity was expanding outward establishing influence but never challenging the eldar or doing anything that attacked the eldars influence, if humans maintaining order as the sole superpower of the milky way it was not because the eldar were to weak its that the eldar didnt care sicne they had powerful defenses and a life of luxury that made going out and smacking down primites( which never happened beyond some poor sods who got wrecked by Defense sentries) a non issue.

De facto humanity ruled the galaxy but in their wisdom didnt see a reason to go and attack the eldar for that title if the space elves would just do their crazy partying.

>>54060085
I always assumed DAOT simply avoided the Eldar worlds and few proxy battles ever amounted to anything due to mutally assured destruction, then the Men of Iron fucked it all up on Humanities side.

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>>54060079
>I always assume it was like Star Trek, and the Men of Iron were like the Borg in terms of uniting empires to combat them.

You know what they say about assuming, you dumb asshole.

>>54059861
>>54059888
Careful, anon.

You will reach BL levels of writing.

>>54056562
I think you're illiterate.

>>54060126
>Let me cherrypick this OPINION from the Eldar Codex.

Let me just sum up how stupid that is.

>Nobody is more technologically advanced than Eldar
>THE FUCKING NECRONS.

>>54060115
So Eldar = China and Humanity = filthy Europeans? Actually yeah I can see that.

>>54060122
I bet the battles involving the eldar and humanity were between rouge commanders who were shitposting on their interstellar space mining forum too much.

>>54060173
All the codexes big up their armies, it's their job. It's why you have so many
>if only [x faction] could pull themselves together, they would surely dominate the galaxy

>>54060173
>>Let me cherrypick this OPINION from the Eldar Codex.

It's not an opinion though, it's fact.

>Nobody is more technologically advanced than Eldar
>THE FUCKING NECRONS.

Necrons were not active, they had also been technologically stagnant for millions of years.

>>54060173
That was written before the Necrons became a thing, and in setting history the Necrons weren't among the races active at the time.

>>54060202
>>54060206

It's still a Codex OPINION. It's not a fact because it's been demonstrated thousands of times Eldar Technology isn't always superior.

>>54060175
ehh not quite.

>>54060222
>It's still a Codex OPINION.

No it's not. It's never presented as an opinion.

>It's not a fact because it's been demonstrated thousands of times Eldar Technology isn't always superior.

Not now, but before the fall it was.

>>54059815
>t's BL books, aka, stuff you can actively ignore.

Nope, you just cited a BL source and then try to dismiss another source because its from BL. You are litterally the worst kind of person on the board and deserve to get real life cancer and AIDS.

My god you are that horrible of a human being.

>>54060255
I don't see Eldar versions of Men of Iron about. Actually, we never see Eldar versions of galactic Doomsday devices anywhere.

I mean the Eldar didn't even create the Webway.

>>54060222
Nope, even the main rulebooks claim the Eldar were the dominate power at the time.

And the Eldar had the superior tech during that the time because there were nothing but primitive races running around.

>>54060283
Ive heard stuff about servant races and automated defense sentires but nothing for doomsday weapons aside from moving a star. Maybe eldar see Doomsday weapons as a blunt or crude instrument only barabarians savages and primitives use.

>>54060277
You a bit mad I used your tactic against you Carnac.

See, the point here is the BL source I cited was some fluff added on top of 3e fluff.

You're trying to claim an Angry Elf clown is speaking 100% the truth.

>>54053123
Eldar.

Even when mankind was in their Golden Age, the Eldar explicitly ran the galaxy. Their supremacy was so absolute that they didn't even pay attention to their enemies anymore, they just sat back and let their automated shit take care of everything.

This is precisely why they went full Slaanesh. They were a warrior race designed to vent their intense passions in combat, and they had nobody worthy of fighting.

>>54060283
The codexes and novels straight out say that the Eldar had automated armies that guarded their domains and waged their wars.

Ignorance is not an excuse. It just marks you out as an asshole especially when you try to argue with the knowledgeable about basic stuff.

>>54060283
>I don't see Eldar versions of Men of Iron about.

Maybe because they could actually build functioning robots that didn't rebel.

>Actually, we never see Eldar versions of galactic Doomsday devices anywhere.

All this proves is that they're better at not letting dangerous shit fall into the wrong hands.

>I mean the Eldar didn't even create the Webway.

Yet they mastered it.

>>54060320>>54060351


And yet DAoT tech is fucking amazing, so much so everything we see from DAoT has been outstandingly amazing that even the slightest shred of it seems to have galactic consequence.

It's almost as if Elfdar faggots are constricting the entire timeline and somehow do not understand the DECLINE of the Eldar Empire didn't happen at once with a huge explosion.

>>54060322
You are talking to two different anons and calling them both Carnac. That point was my first post to you and I serene hope you get cancer.

>>54055929
>if current Imperial weaponry is sufficient to take out and destroy the Eldar of 40k, then the DAOT tech should certainly be more than a match for them

Current Eldar tech is the equivalent of outdated military surplus and repurposed Space Amish stuff.

The Eldar have lost just as much tech as if not more than the humanity has.

>>54060372
Nope, the DAoT tech asn't amazing to the Eldar. The codexes and rulebooks say the Eldar were untouchable by any race within the galaxy.

And no. Necron and Old One/Eldar technology such as the Breath of Gods and the Hallow Worlds are of galactic consequence. The DAoT are just self heating toasters.

>>54060391
Yet Eldar Technology is the exact same shit just before Pre-Fall Eldar happened. Hell, Dark Eldar use IMPROVED Pre-fall shit. I am really waiting for Carnac to connect the dots here. It's funny watch him autistically thrash at the points.

>>54060372
>And yet DAoT tech is fucking amazing

But worse than the pre fall eldar technology.
DAoT mankind fell incidentally to the Eldar not caring enough and going full hedonist.

>>54060283
>I don't see Eldar versions of Men of Iron about

Eldar had armies of automated stuff that did all their fighting. This is in every edition of their codex.

>Actually, we never see Eldar versions of galactic Doomsday devices anywhere

Well, we see a few things.

There's a piece of fluff where the Eldar intentionally destroy one of their own superweapons because it's foreseen that someone will use it rashly and kill everything. They actually go to war with the planet it's hidden on to do so.

It's never said precisely what it does.

>>54060428
>Yet Eldar Technology is the exact same shit just before Pre-Fall Eldar happened.

But it's not. Before the Fall Eldar had invented a machine that allowed their thoughts to become reality. They could kill, create or move stars.

>>54060446
>>54060430
>>54060424

Again, it's always hilarious seeing Elfdar fags not connecting the dots.

I'll give you a hint. DAoT mankind is not the height of the Eldar Empire.

>>54060464
No they didn't though Carnac.

>>54060372
It doesn't matter how amazing DAoT tech is.

Rulebooks and codices currently say and have always said that pre-Fall Eldar were untouchable. This is WHY they fell, because they had nobody to fight.

You're arguing against core fluff that hasn't changed since Rogue Trader.

>>54060321
>"We spread across the glittering stars bringing glory and beauty to countless worlds, much as you humans bring pollution and ugliness to the stars with your presence now. There was nothing we could not achieve, for our minds and our technology were perfectly wedded together. A mere thought could be captured and harnessed by our wonderful machines, so that we ourselves did not have to sully ourselves with physical labour. We constructed artificial creatures to farm for us, fight for us, explore for us."

>"As you might understand, we did not sit idly by while our creations conquered the galaxy in our name. Of course not! We dedicated ourselves to much higher pursuits: the perfection of literature, of art, of dance, of sport and of acting. Our striving for the perfect aesthetic became enshrined within our culture, our religion, and our politics.

Vect, from "The torturer's tale"

who the fuck is carnac

>>54060492
I'm not though, you're just condensing the timeline to wank off Eldar Carnac.

>>54060428
Nope, the PLs series shows that the Craftworlders abandoned much of the Empire's tech.

Most Dark Eldar are ragged survivors from the cults of pleasure that existed at the time. The Homunculus covens are the one that should have some left over Pre-Fall tech and these guys mostly hoard it to sell it to the Kabals.

We have seen some examples of it like a Blackhole in a box.

>>54060477
>No they didn't though.

Yes they did.

>>54060477
>I'll give you a hint. DAoT mankind is not the height of the Eldar Empire.

The rulebooks don't say the Eldar were only untouchable at their height, though. They say they were untouchable prior to the fall.

Which includes DAoT's lifespan.

Calling everyone Carnac won't make up for your piss poor argumentation and lack of basic knowledge.

>>54060498
yea thats it.

>>54060525
Source? Is it >>54060498
By any chance?

>>54060477
It's hilarious that you have no sources and just "nuh huh" like a child.

>>54060503
Anyone who disagrees with him.

>>54060537
No. Fist of Demetrius for the Thought Machine.
Dark Eldar for the star stuff.

>>54060428
>Yet Eldar Technology is the exact same shit just before Pre-Fall Eldar happened

Nope, it is explicitly stated that the Craftworlders were regressivist zealots seen by the rest of the Empire as luddites.

This is both in codices and in the Phoenix Lord books.

>Hell, Dark Eldar use IMPROVED Pre-fall shit.

No, they didn't, Dark Eldar tech is explicitly based on what the fallen pleasure cults that survived Slaanesh's birth could salvage. Much like Imperium tech, it's based on an incomplete knowledge of technology from the Eldar Empire's pre-Fall days.

Nowhere is it ever said that the Deldar have improved anything in regards to pre-Fall technology.

>>54060428
>Dark Eldar use IMPROVED Pre-fall shit

Literally making shit up now?

You make a better Carnac than anyone you're throwing that name at.

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>people are autistically arguing over poorly written fluff

Just got a reminder I'm in 4chan.

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>Rulebooks:
The Eldar were unchallenged and dominated the galaxy prior to their collapse.

>40 Codices:
The Eldar were unchallenged and dominated the galaxy prior to their collapse.

>Black Library:
The Eldar were unchallenged and dominated the galaxy prior to their collapse.

>Sources in this Thread:
The Eldar were unchallenged and dominated the galaxy prior to their collapse.

>One Butthurt Anon:
NU UHHHHHH, I DON'T LIKE THIS SO ITS WRUNG, CARNAC CARNAC HURRR

Is this is what happens when you spend too much time in HFY threads?

>>54060669
>My very cherry picked Opinion pieces are all 100% fact.

Meanwhile, the writing on the DAOT.

>Never mentions the Eldar even in passing until the Eldar cause Warp storms, but even then, the Age of strife is caused by the Mutation of Psykers not specifically the birth of Slaanesh.

If the Eldar Dominated the Galaxy, How did the DAOT Empire end up... Dominating the Galaxy.

It's almost as if the Eldar are an analogy to the fall of Rome and that in it's weakened days, was greatly diminished in influence.

>>54060714
>the writing on the DAOT.

At no point in the fluff did the DAoT was claimed to be superior to anyone.

In fact, they were just scattered colonies with no centralised power structure. They dominated NOZING. In the Eldar novels, the humans were mocked by the Eldar who saw the human realms being torn by warpstorms while the Eldar were untouched by them.

>>54060714
>If the Eldar Dominated the Galaxy, How did the DAOT Empire end up... Dominating the Galaxy.

They didn't. DAoT fluff never states that mankind ran the galaxy or was the most powerful force in the galaxy.

It just states that humanity was at its scientific and philosophical height and that was a utopian period for most of mankind.

You're inventing fluff in order to justify other fluff you've invented.

>>54060714
Because like I said above they held the title of De jure galactic ruler but didnt feel the need to enforce it or handle any of the responsibilities of said status since they had a utopia. And no one wanted to challenge them for the title if they could just move along and colonize the places that they eldar didnt care about.

>>54060769
>>54060773>>54060810
>Eldar Empire descends into murdering itself in 25th Millenium and withdraws
>DAOT starts literally in the 25th millenium

>Fall of the Eldar is early 30th Millenium
>Age of Strife begins in the 30th millenium

I'm not inventing any fluff at all. The Eldar began their DECLINE right as the DAOT began to ASCEND

The DAOT Humans filled the power gap by the Eldar Empire folding in on itself.

>>54060714
Golden Age humanity didn't dominate the galaxy, it's as simple as that.

They're never stated to have dominated the galaxy. They're never stated to be the most powerful dudes in the galaxy. They're never even stated to be a unified government - quite the opposite, DAoT mankind was made up of thousands of independent colonies.

Humanity's Golden Age isn't regarded as a better time in the fluff because mankind were the top dogs or anything, but because they were in a great place socially and technologically, with every human enjoying a fantastic quality of life and at peace with most neighboring aliens (including Eldar - Craftworlds are in fact repurposed trading/leisure ships that used to roam the galaxy delivery partytimes).

>>54060840
Nah, dude, you are just headcanoning att his point.

>>54060840
>I'm not inventing any fluff at all. The Eldar began their DECLINE right as the DAOT began to ASCEND

They are still described as completely unchallenged, dude.

The fact is, the Eldar only Fell because they had no worthy adversaries to fight. Mankind was not a worthy adversary.

This is stated again and again in every fucking source. There are multiple quotes in this thread describing how the Eldar were untouchable. Stop trying to proliferate your dumb headcanon.

>>54053123
In a man to man fight id give it to humanity because if were looking at peak human id the physical performance would be unbeatable. Taking some of the bits from all the primarchs you would have an unstoppable hunk of psychic man meat. No elf could beat that.

>>54060840
Nope. The DAoT ended in M25.
It began as early as M15.
So the Eldar slide to depravity outlasted it, and they were still unchallenged.

>>54060840
>>DAOT starts literally in the 25th millenium

No it fucking doesn't.

It starts in M15.

The Age of Strife starts in M25.

Learn your fucking fluff, or stop lying.

>>54060840
>>DAOT starts literally in the 25th millenium

No, it starts in M15.

>Age of Strife begins in the 30th millenium

No, it begins in M25. The Fall of the Eldar happens in M30.

Man, stop embarrassing yourself.

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>BUT MUH IRON MENS

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>>54060840
>>54060915
>>54060916
>>54060942

>>54060942
>>54060916
>>54060915
>>54060877

Right, I got the dates wrong, However.

By M18[7], the Age of Technology brought the development of the Warp drive and the Gellar Field, allowing spacecraft to make short Warp-jumps, travelling vast distances in a relatively short amount of time. One can compare this to the way the Tau ships currently travel.[Needs Citation]
The Warp drive accelerated the colonisation of the Galaxy, and allowed trade and communications between the colonies and Terra. Humanity began encountering other alien races, such as the Orks[6] and Eldar[5], and clashed with both civilizations during this period.[5][6]

If the Eldar were so amazing and unchallenged, why the fuck were the DAOT Clashing with the Eldar and not easily wiped out.

>>54060963
>More Phil kelly opinion pieces.

>>54060976
>Get a date wrong
>Elfdar faggots pretend it matters.

At the end of the day, if the Eldar were so unchallenged, other empires would not have existed.

>>54060992
>If the Eldar were so amazing and unchallenged, why the fuck were the DAOT Clashing with the Eldar and not easily wiped out.

Because the Eldar didn't need to wipe them out.

Jesus Christ how are you this dense? One of the major plot devices of the Fall is that the Eldar had no reason to actively fight anyone, they just sat back and let their automated defenses take care of everything. This was the entire reason for the Fall.

The Eldar could sit back and watch other races crash ineffectively against their automatons, and laugh about it.

>At the end of the day, if the Eldar were so unchallenged, other empires would not have existed.

Why? They literally had no reason to care about anyone else, and the galaxy would be boring without new things to look at occasionally.

That said, DAoT mankind was made up of thousands of disparate states. Some of them may indeed have been wiped out in clashes against Eldar defenses.

>>54060992
>If the Eldar were so amazing and unchallenged, why the fuck were the DAOT Clashing with the Eldar and not easily wiped out.

Because the Eldar didn't need to wipe them out.

>More Phil kelly opinion pieces.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't canon.

>At the end of the day, if the Eldar were so unchallenged, other empires would not have existed.

Except that logic doesn't follow, they existed because the Eldar didn't care about them or consider them to be threatening.

>>54060992
>i'll just disregard old fluff that has been central to the setting since its inception because it doesn't suit my narrative

You are astoundingly dumb.

I almost believe you're a troll at this point, but on the other hand, this feels like a special kind of stupidity that can't be simulated.

Everything you've said has been countered. All your current points have been answered and refuted several times over.

Just swallow your pride and get off the internet for a while, you clearly need a kit kat.

>People ITT not understanding DAOT Era is basically Dune meets Star Trek Meets lord of the rings

>Eldar are Vulcan/Elves who are generally more advanced but apply their technology more conservatively and apply themselves more to the arts

>DAOT Humanity is the plucky growing power showing signs of surpassing the Vulcan/Elves but at it's time is inferior

>Everything goes to shit when Robots rebel and the crack god awakens.

People shitposting on either side really should learn the sources from this crap. I 100% understand the Eldar being haughty "We are so smart " fucks until the Men of Iron turn into Skynet and suddenly they're alot more dangerous without the federation trying to wrangle them in.

The Entire era is fuzzy at best. Trying to downplay either side shows a laughably autistic bias.

>>54060992
>If the Eldar were so amazing and unchallenged, why the fuck were the DAOT Clashing with the Eldar and not easily wiped out.
Because those clashes were likely friendly shit talking contests that turned into mock wars ending with no one eldar or human actually dying.

>>54059653
>eldar player and HFYfaggot
You might be the single most homosexual person in the entire history of mankind. A living legend.

>>54061116
You know what? I have not sucked one single cock. Not one. All this talent...wasted.

>>54061084
>>Eldar are Vulcan/Elves who are generally more advanced but apply their technology more conservatively and apply themselves more to the arts
>>DAOT Humanity is the plucky growing power showing signs of surpassing the Vulcan/Elves

Nice fanfiction, shame there's nothing to actually support it.
I mean,
>Pre-fall Eldar
>Conservative

>>54061084
Its applying technology in a precise manner, much like we're doing now in reality.
Sure we have nukes, but you can't just nuke everything, so you focus on building precision weapons. It doesn't mean you can't nuke things when you want, it just means your tech is focused on precise damage to do exactly what you want instead of indiscriminately bombing everything. You're still capable of both, there's just no point in the latter.

>>54061108
Anyone else find it funny that 20th millenium is basically SUPCOM?

The Cybran nation were "Technlogically" inferior to all other factions, but the base level of all technology was so strong they could fight toe-to-toe with them and be enough of an issue to not be able to be wiped out wholesale.

>>54061163
>Not understanding the context of conservative in that comment
>Nice fanction though

Well, it explains everything beyond "The Eldar were super powerful and their robots they built to explore conquer and build somehow didn't wipe out the DAoT Humans while they were just starting out despite the Eldar being pretty close to Terra"

Instead of going full Elfdar wankery and saying ELDAR RULED EVERYTHING AND ONLY LET HUMANS LIVE FOR THE LOLS I try and apply the common logic that the DAoT Humanity was strong enough to resist the Eldar Automated Conquering units, but not strong enough to pressure the Eldar Empire.

The thing is the Eldar became a post Scarcity interstellar Empire, DAoT Humanity did not. So while the Eldar could probably fend off DAoT Humanity's attempts at attacks, I don't assume the Eldar could have just destroyed the DAoT Empire on a whim either... otherwise they'd have probably done that.

>>54061132
Surely you have ascended mere dick sucking. Your gayness comes in forms mere mortals can't even comprehend.

>>54061250
The problem is you're assuming the eldar cared about humanity in any way.

If they were a threat, they would have fought them, because thats what the eldar do. If they weren't a threat they got ignored because its a waste of time and effort to bother, and you don't want to wipe out ecosystems for no reason.

since the eldar wasn't actively fighting daot empire we can assume they just didn't give half a shit about them.

>>54061250
>>Not understanding the context of conservative

What didn't I understand? Why do you imagine
their technology was used conservatively for no reason?

>Instead of going full Elfdar wankery

It's not wankery though, it's just the fluff.

>otherwise they'd have probably done that.

Why? They don't care.
They ruled for millions of years.
Humans showed up for a few thousand and collapsed. DAoT was like a fart in the wind to the Eldar Empire.

>>54061314
This. I'm sure we could annihilate all ants from the world (at what cost is for another thread) but we choose not to.

>>54061314
No, But I am assuming those Automated conquering legions did conflict with DAoT eventually.

I mean by the sounds of it, the Eldar didn't keep track of them much to begin with, So I could easily see the Eldar ignoring entire Campaigns of Defeats and Victories as long as the DAoT humans never even registered on their radar.

>>54061334
>>54061343

If the Eldar didn't care, why did they build conquering robot armies? If the Eldar built them so well, why did they not conquer the DAoT Humans? Clearly either the Eldar told the conquering robots not to kill humans or the DAoT Humans were able to resist the Eldar's killbots.

>>54061334
>What didn't I understand? Why do you imagine
>their technology was used conservatively for no reason?

That they built killer conquering robots but paid more attention to their replicators.

>>54061382
>If the Eldar didn't care, why did they build conquering robot armies?

To conquer stuff if they felt like it.
Why do you assume that they decided to conquer all of DAoT mankind?

>>54061382
Because it was more defense system than actually conquering in the sense you're talking about.

Plus eldar would have noticed all their defense machines being annihilated.

Eldar once ruled the galaxy uncontested. This is also before the Eldar path became a thing. So, imagine battlehardened drugged out Eldar warriors coming at you in greater numbers than the IG, all carrying fantastic weapons and all of them being powerful psykers.

The Imperium wanted none of that. Why do you think the Emperor waited until AFTER the fall to make him Primarchs and go attempt to take the galaxy.

>>54061460
>>54061442

No, they specifically made robots to explore and conquer. So by the sheer shape of the Milky they'd have to come in contact with Humanity pretty quickly.

>>54061477
Considering we have that in 40k it's not that special.

I don't even see how this is still going. You can literally see the excerpts from canon books that say eldar were far superior.

Humanwankfests are the most annoying things in the world.

>>54061563
Because I'm >>54061250

All you want to do is wank of the Eldar, when quite clearly the 20th Millenium wasn't just ELDAR STRONG HERPADERPA

>>54061590
Except it literally was eldar being strong and not giving a fuck as they literally torture fuck themselves into oblivion. Meanwhile other dudes doing things elsewhere.

There's nothing wrong with accepting that eldar were superior for a time.

>>54061647
Because the way you phrase it is the height of hilarious wankery

>Decadent empire manages to fuck itself over in blissful ignornace of the galaxy around them.

>OH DEY WHER SUPERIOR RIGHT ELDAR STRONG

I mean, you want to get down to brass tax, No, the Eldar were pretty laughably pathetic.

>Literally created by the Old Ones to be amazing at everything
>Given everything needed to succeed
>Literally fuck it all up so bad you ruin Warp travel for everyone.

You can say they were STRONGER, but yeah, Superior is a rather heavy word for something like this.

It's like saying an American is superior to another person because they can fit more burgers in their gullet.

>>54061721
The topic is military strength, it doesn't matter how it happened, eldar were on top. That's just a fact period. It doesn't matter if they were fucked up or were given their tech, they could use it and as a result they were the strongest in the universe, period.

I'm not even an eldarfag, this is just factual information.

>>54061763
Like I said though, you said Stronger, not Superior. Words have meaning.

Superior lends itself an aire of Arrogance Eldar fans so often enjoy.

Man it feels good raping them in 8th edition.

>>54061721
>>54061790
We get it, you were proven wrong and have some petty vendetta against the eldar but are too proud to admit it.
Move on.

>>54053123
Well, the eldar are generally taller, but space marines might match or even exceed their height. Regular humans not so much, so it's a question of whether or not you consider Space Marines still human.