Would a dwarf be able to replicate a shotgun with just typical

No
None
Guns don't work in fantasy because it creates too many arguments

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>>54035717
>Guns don't work in fantasy because it creates too many arguments

>>54035764
Are you agreeing or counterpointing?

>>54035717
>>54035697

Depends on who are you playing with.
If you are playing with Californian nerds, the guns in medieval setting isn't even an issue. Heck, you can put in androids and mechs without much problems either as long as it cool and fun for everyone.

If you are playing with autistic military engineers in rural university town in bumfuckville, then it is best not to have any guns in your fantasy setting as they will spend most of the session whining and bitching over the gun mechanics.
In other words, they are western katana faggots who want their favorite weapon to become the end all weapon despite knowing it's a fucking game of pretend.

>>54035697
do firearms already exist in your setting?
what led your character to develop the concept of a functional shotgun without meta knowledge?
did you already argue with your DM about how your character wouldn't be able to do it?

>>54035914
Engineers are my least favourite kind of people to play RPGs with. They don't actually want to play the RPG, they want to find a way to manipulate the system mechanics to break or optimize it. I get that is essentially the conditioned way to think of their entire field, but it's a fucking chore in a game. It doesn't matter if their character wouldn't know about gunpowder or lasers, it doesn't matter what their character or background actually is, it's all just a ride on the "Well the game doesn't actually detail this interaction but in terms of physics it would maybe do this weird thing so I think you'll agree it should instantly annihilate the dragon."

Fuck. Engineers.

Hand cannon were widely available in the 14th and 15th centuries -- which is perhaps the most iconic medieval centuries in Western imagination. Joan of Arc wrote to her superiors requesting gunpowder among all her other supplies. The Paston Letters described an invasion from a rival household where they were armed with handguns. I was only 10 when I read it, but I dimly recall that Le Morte D'Arthur has Arthur's cannons hammering the walls of Lancelot's keep during the Siege of Benwick.

If your setting has steel plate armor, it's at a tech level where they can have guns.

Primitive handguns were just metal tubes with explosive powder at the bottom of them, with iron shot packed on top. You trigger the explosion, and the force propels the shot in the general direction of the enemy.

Any amount of gunpowder (our world's gunpowder, that is) that's powerful enough to knock a dwarf on his ass is enough to destroy the tube, as well.

Hope that's helpful.

t. I like guns and armor.

>>54035697
>Would a dwarf be able to replicate a shotgun with just typical medieval tools?

Firearms were around before full plate armor was, so yes.

>>54035697
A simple one like the TOZ-34 should be possible.
The harder part is the ammo. Especially primers, from what I have gathered.
Front loaders should be entirely possible, I think.


Also somewhat related, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp0cNZopl_U

he would probably do it and add about 1000 magical runes to it and make it prettier too

>>54035970
This is why I like Changeling: The Lost, since in Arcadia, "The fairie realm," things don't work by the laws of physics, but symbolism and contracts.

So when somebody tries to do something like that, they have a better chance if they clap their hands and believe than working up a full schematic.

A front loaded smoothbore shotgun is essentially a smaller handcannon so sure, go ahead.

>>54035697
Just stuff some sharp metal into a boomstick and light it. Instant fantasy shotgun.

Breechloading weapons were around in the 1500's, a double-barrelled breech-loading blunderbuss would be possible.

>>54035697
Captain Kirk managed to make one out of bamboo and minerals in a few hours, so you should be fine.

Can he make a tube and tap a whole in the back? If so he can make a shotgun. It will be a fuse lit afair but I dont want to stand infront of it

>>54035697
Yes. Dwarves can forge anything with anything.

Once a dwarf made a nuclear warhead out of a seashell.

>>54035970
My style for that is "is my character of an engineering mindset? If yes, how would they use what is available according to the game and DM to create new ways of doing things?"
And then I convert the inventing rules from GURPS to see if my character can make the leap of logic required to even conceive of the idea. Most of the time, it should be inventions that are not immediately useful to adventurers, and are more useful in ordinary life.
Best items I ever made with that? a self-heating stovetop and a chest enchanted with ray of frost (portable freezer baby!).

>>54035914
>>54035970
>jealous brainlets spotted

>>54035717
Guns work fine in fantasy, just not in D&D most of the time

>>54035970
Out of the five members in my group, three are engineers. One is more of a gamer than a roleplayer, but overall we're quite good with it.

>>54038599
DC 35

>>54040004
Just refluff them as bows for those interested.

>>54035697

I literally just watched a video featuring early 20th century blacksmiths hand forging a gun barrel.

https://youtu.be/AFrZulegvFs

Seeing this, there is no reason why a Dwarven Master Blacksmith wouldn't be able to make some sort of gun with the right plans and materials.

This assumes you have some sort of plans, of course, assuming they haven't been pulled out of your ass.

>>54035697
i dunno a blunderbuss is similar to a shotgun and was made with tools from the late middle ages.

>>54035697
Animu Answer: Drifters

Dwarves forge better than humans and humans forged guns in an age before factories.

>>54042778

Crossbows with Dext to damage.

>>54035717

Most fantasy relies on people being historic illiterates.

Does plate armor make sense without guns around?

>>54045178
Sharp pointy things hurt, so yes.

>>54045191

Plate armor only exist because guns and longbows became a thing.

>>54035914
>In other words, they are western katana faggots
Truly. With guns in a pre-industrial setting ammo would be a SERIOUS concern (where you can just make arrows with shit you find laying around ezpz), unless your gun is the "extremely inaccurate early shotgun" variety. You've either got old guns that were shit, modern guns that are extremely effective but you're gonna have to use them like once a year or they become dead weight, or in between guns that are gonna be tight on ammo AND effective but not as effective as modern guns. All the while a mage can do pretty much anything a gun can do but better and a guy with an axe is gonna logically be (even) more lethal than any single bullet assuming both get a solid hit to the viscera. Any real argument is guns vs bows, but bows can win even there for various reasons.

What are some good dwarven curses?

>>54045200

Um, no.

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>>54045200

Bows are not that much more accurate than guns. The priority was never dexterity, but pierce armor. Even when it comes to range they are not that different. You never fire at the maximum range unless you are skirmishing. You hold your fire until the enemy is close so you have more chances of causing a shock.

>>54045200
Guns are the reason plate armour fell out of favour dude.

>>54045275

You are wrong. Plate armor achieved its peak during their race vs guns. All these full plate armors are a thing of the late mediaval period up, renaissance up to early modern.

>>54045274
Bows have a larger, slower projectile, so you can see amd adjust your trajectory more effectively.

>>54045290
Yes, and its peak wasn't good enough. It lost that race.

>>54045304

>Yes, and its peak wasn't good enough. It lost that race.

In the late 17th century...

>>54045290

Um. No.

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>>54045343

>>54035968
>how did the guy who invented guns invent guns without guns already existing
>how did the guy who invented computers invent computers if computers didnt exist yet.
ya see the problem here?

>>54045374
>current era
>still using AD and BC

>>54035968
>"hey cannons are pretty good, what if we made a small one that only took out one dude at a time but you could carry it in your pocket?"
shit dude you only got 1 int

>durr why can't *I* be the one to develop an incredibly volitile and complex technology that required multiple generations and expertise in multiple fields such as chemistry and metallurgy, in just a few weeks while also travelling on the road and not in a well-funded lab?

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I want to hunt dragons with an artillery battery.

>>54045464
>guns
>complex

>>54045464
>complex
Yeah, nah, guns are many things but this ain't one of them. Gunpowder has existed for so long it's almost crazy to not assume it's in the setting unless the GM specifically says otherwise, after that a gun is just a tube, a handle, and a fuse.

>>54045464
IIRC the first recorded instances of guns were in the hands of chinese mercenaries that made simple handheld shrapnel cannons designed to fire arrows, and used them in a political assassination. These were no more complex than a long, narrow cauldron of iron with some powder tamped into the bottom lit by a match (in other words, they were just miniature cannons).

If your setting has black powder or an equivalent explosive, and especially if it already has cannons, handcannons are not a stretch. Not saying the hero should be able to pull a modern assault rifle out of his ass here, just that a firearm is not the crazy and bizarre technology you seem to think it is. The only reason they weren't developed much, much sooner is that bows were better in almost all situations.

>>54045483
>>54045497
>a gun is a tube, a handle and a fuse
Spotted the armchair medieval experts. I hope you try it trying to justify your character to a DM with common sense and watch your hands get blown off

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>>54045558
First, see >>54045501
Second pic related

>>54045558
Bruv, I've made gun with PVC pipe and an electric trigger. It didn't blow up, I still have two hands and ten fingers.

I get it, you think guns are pseudo-magical super science, but they aren't. A few ounces of saltpeter and charcoal aren't gonna do shit to a reinforced cast-iron tube.

>>54036561
>breech-loading blunderbuss
i dont think you understand what a blunderbuss is.

>>54036180

Jesus christ this guy is an idiot. Swords were invented, almost literally, everywhere. Gunpowder was invented once, by accident. Firearms being delayed by a few centuries makes sense under any kind of metric.

History is a series of events pushed by entropy, disease, and hunger. Assuming gunpowder is invented and propagated in any setting is making just as many assumptions as the opposite.

>>54035697
no matter how good he is at working metal, he would be limited by the material at his disposal
even the best medieval steel, worth its weight in gold, would not be sufficiently tough to make a gun barrel or its mechanisms

he will also need tools that dont exist yet, like the ability to make a perfectly cylindrical steel tube, with a perfectly bored hole in the middle, lathes and drills at the time simply were not hard enough or precise enough

on the topic of precision, he has no tools to measure his work well enough, calipers and rulers are simply not good enough, which is not acceptable if you want mechanisms that dont jam

>>54045885
>even the best medieval steel, worth its weight in gold, would not be sufficiently tough to make a gun barrel or its mechanisms

What about Mithril or other dwarven metals?

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>>54045885
Wrong.

The question is if a blacksmith could make a gun.

The answer is yes. Who do you think made them to begin with?

Would a character in any given setting have enough of a grasp the physical interactions that make a gun work? Depends.

/thread

>>54046016
i was just answering the OPs question
modern shotgun and medieval tools

he would have no problem making an arquebus, a napoleonic musket, or a breechloader if he isnt worried about the metalwork seizing up

It would largely depend on the level of metallurgy available. If only low quality steel & iron were around, then at best you could make cannon & hand cannon, matchlocks. Possibly flintlocks or caplocks but that would also depend on other factors.

If higher quality steel/mithril were available, everyhing up to early to mid 19th century firearms should be possible. Cartridge firing guns & smokeless powder probably would not be economical in most pseudo medieval settings.

Of course, in a setting with magic you could just say that gun powder doesn't work.

>>54045391
Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that jazz.
There is long way from black powder to shotgun and similarly from Pascal's calculator and Babbage's difference and analytical engine to modern computer .

>>54045428
>changing from one arbitrary term to another because of 'muh athiesm.'

It's not like the dates actually change, it's just some preppy twerps getting bent out of shape over some dated terminology.

>>54035697
How modern shotgun? Blunderbuss, break action, lever action, bolt action, pump action, semi or full auto?

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>>54035697
Shotguns aren't complicated at all, so sure you can make a shotgun.

Good luck trying to make the ammo, that's never gonna happen.

>>54035697
Some break action thing in a large caliber like 6-8 Gauge would work.
I'd let that happen if the player made a good explanation as to why he'd just invent blackpowder.

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>>54045637
Yeah okay your unwashed murderhobo ass is going to build a zip gun out of a hobnail, a bowstring, and a bit of metal pipe that you had for some reason.

Now tell me where you're gonna find cartridges to load it with. You retard.

>>54036392
>This is why I like Changeling: The Lost, since in Arcadia, "The fairie realm," things don't work by the laws of physics, but symbolism and contracts.
Seems like Changeling would be terrible to play with lawyers then.

>>54035697
For the record, the kind of gun he would produce is not the kind of thing you would imagine when you think of a shotgun, with small, neat, precision-made cartridges. It'd be the sort of thing where you have to pour powder and grapeshot into the muzzle, pack it in with a rod, and then probably use some kind of match to set it off.

>>54035717
>>54035764
I think, mostly it depends on the setting. For example, in Warhammer Fantasy they fit perfect in, because the world is more renaissance/medieval times. In for example, a world like the elder scrolls, which would be Antique/Medieval times, that would be really strange.

>>54036799
That was a fleshlight anon. Because there weren't any alien chicks on that planet for Kirk to get sweaty with.

>>54035697
Yes see warhammer grudge raker, literally grape shot in a hand cannon.

>>54035697
Just put a handful of metal junk in a pipe with a compression lever and a small exploding crystal. Make it suck on long distances.

>>54045374
>dat explanation
>dat old-ass illustration with "chain mail" as a label
Roit. It's not like plate armour is more lightweight and protective than coat of plates while being easier to maintain, it's not like some smiths got better at shaping plates, it's not like they got more quality steel, it's all dem hand-cannons which forced people from embrace of the glorious mail.

>>54045645
>implying medieval iron resists sudden tensile loads better than thick PVC
Cast iron is brittle with non-uniform structure full of stress accumulators which crack easily under pressure. PVC is much more resilient.
Why the fuck do you think proper cannons (as opposed to the "fuck you I'm gonna explode at any moment" cannons) were made of bronze, to show off?

>>54048572
The fucking Mongols used guns in 1260. Medieval smiths could make guns.

>>54048090
Guns existed in medieval, the problem is that they fucking sucked until the late Ren period.

They were expensive, had a long loading time, and were inaccurate plus sometimes they blew up in your fucking hands if you weren't trained meaning the troops you gave them to were professional soldiers.

They were used however. Mostly by the guards at large cities where you could have a fixed point to defend.

For TES you wouldn't see them hardly at all in Skyrim, but in the Imperial City and Kvatch guards at entrances would have them.

>>54035970
Your problem isn't with engineers, your problem is with autistic engineers. I hate when people try to do all that shit in a game and I am an engineer

>>54045275
Yeah, but it took centuries for small arms to become powerful enough to pierce plate.

>>54046465
>cartridges
?
why are you moving the goalposts

>>54035970
>Fuck. Engineers.
If more people did, we wouldn't have this problem.

>>54046016
/threading your own post is like high fiving yourself in public. Except more retarded.

Which is sad because you make good points.

>>54035914

Ask them to stab themselves in the face hard with a shuriken or a dagger if they think the damage dice for fantasy guns are too low.

That should satisfy their bullshit.

>>54035697

nope

that Dwarf would need to start a long journay of making tools to make better tool for the crouple hundred years before he could make a modern shotgun and ammo

but he could make a blunderbuss with almost no problem

as for the recoil more then a human

>>54048572
ffs, you could have wooden cannons, the chinese did. nobody said anything about reliability.
also, how much did you ever take courses in metallurgy? cause bronze, too is brittle af.

>>54053834
>as for the recoil more then a human

What does that mean? Do dwarves recoil at the sight of a human?

>>54053884

well humans are ugly to dwarven standards so probably

>>54053884
>how do context and reading?
he means to say that a dwarf could take more recoil than a human before falling over.

>>54054677
>as for the recoil more then a human
>then
>no problem making a blunderbuss, more recoil then a human...
what? who?
in no way is any context in his post describing what you just interpreted. not that I say your interpretation is wrong, it may as well be what he tried to say (albeit it isn't what I interpreted his post as;
>a dwarven blunderbuss supposedly has more recoil than a human-made one)

>>54047979
Law students should be required to play a continuous game of C:tL throughout their time at school with a really anal retentive autistic GM who take detailed notes of every contract they make.

>>54054938
read the OP, he went through and answered each question one after another.
>How high of a calibur gun should a dwarf be able to use before the recoil knocks him on his ass?
>as for the recoil more then a human

>>54055053
well fuck me, I'm sorry.
its been a few hours since I've read the OP and I've been doing other stuff inbetween.
It actually does make sense, I take it all back. All but pointing out the typo.

>>54035970
I game with a couple engineers. One's a great player, the other less so.