Why aren't you using the medieval Roman Empire as a background

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You can't go wrong with these borders.

>>53871088
>Byzantines
>Roman

>>53871112
>Byzantines
>Not Romans

Are you some kind of steppe nomad?

>>53871197
>Don't speak Latin
>Don't practice the Roman faith
>Didn't control Rome throughout its existence
Not Roman

>>53871220
>Didn't control Rome
>Who's Justinian?

>>53871220
>Don't practice the Roman faith
Why would they? It's been outlawed by 394.

>>53871262
Just one Emperor during the millennia long existence of the Byzantine empire.

>>53871088
Because I can be a little bit more original than that.
The Roman Empire is the most basic, medieval western source of inspiration you could think of. Maybe aside from vikings. It is basically the vanilla flavor historical setting.

>>53871220
>The eastern half of the Roman Empire
>Keeper of it's faith and traditions
>"Not Roman"

Don't be absurd anon

>>53871290
>Not following the creed of St Peter
Get out of here you eastern heretic

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>>53871302
You're thinking of England.

>>53871302
But se talking about it's eastern more specifically during it's reemergence of the 9th and 10th century.

The media loves to forget them

>>53871313
>The Pope having any power over the Emperor

No little latin you're the heretic!

>>53871112
>>53871197
>"Byzantines" is a retroactively applied term. The East Romans called themselves Roman.

>>53871220
>Don't speak Latin
Ever since Roman citizenship was extended to all those living within the borders of the Roman Empire, only a tiny minority of Romans has spoken Latin. The East Romans spoke Greek, the language of the Roman educated class.

>Don't practice the Roman faith
You mean Chalcedonian Christianity? Because the only kind of Christianity closer to it other than Eastern Orthodoxy is Roman Catholocism, and even that's debatable.

>Didn't control Rome throughout its existence
By the last two centuries of its existence, Rome wasn't even the capital of the Western Empire. Rome was only around for sentimental value by that point. If the Roman Empire is defined by having Rome as its capital, it stopped existing under Constantine the Great, the last emperor who ruled over a unified empire alone and not uncoincidentally the emperor who moved the capital to New Rome: Constantinople.

>>53871698
t. Constantine Gyropolis

>>53871346
This is excellent. Saved.

>>53871698
>This

People who say that the byzantines weren't romans are spouting nonsense and memes.

>>53871088
I'm currently reading Harry Turtledove's Videssos Cycle. Quite liking it.

>>53872682

If the Byzantines weren't Romans, they were certainly the heirs to their legacy.

After my CK2 campaign as the byzantines ended with the conquest of the former roman territories, with numerous aditions. I've started to think how to live in the renewed empire would be like.

By the laws I've passed and by it's size I imagine it would be pretty comfy.

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>>53871112
>east rome
>not rome

>>53871220
>>Don't speak Latin
K
>>Don't practice the Roman faith
The catholic faith in all fairness is the wrong one from their point of view, the victor of rome kinda sorta decided he would be the most powerful man in europe and excommunicated the others.
>Didn't control Rome throughout its existence
They held it as much as they could, look anon this is closer to saying the Seleucid are not a Hellenistic kingdom. because the majority language wasn't XYZ

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>>53873383
>The catholic faith in all fairness is the wrong one from their point of view, the victor of rome kinda sorta decided he would be the most powerful man in europe and excommunicated the others.
And the results rather show who won that one.

>>53873687
Those crusades to the holy surely worked great!

>>53874253
*holy land

>>53873687
As much as i love my church, the eastern appear to be do much better today
>ratzinger abidcates for no good reason
>new socialist pope.
>screeching feminists defiling the vadican
>we should allow more Muslim in europe, that's a great idea (despite their prophet being a pawn of the devil to lead the faithful away from god.)
i am not happy

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>>53874253
>>53874267
It's pretty easy being snarky behind the safety of your computer and drenched in first world luxuries and hindsight.

>First Crusade
Roaring succes
>Second Crusade
Failed attempt to capitalize on the succes of the first
>Third Crusade
Mixed bag, Richard does manage to secure the future safety of the Crusader State and make some minor gainz but can't regain Jerusalem
>Fourth Crusade
Doesn't count, Venetians are barely even Christian. My money is on them being a bunch of crypto-Jews
>Fifth Crusade
Bitter defeat
>Sixth Crusade
An often forgotten smashing victory. Effectively the entire Holy Land is regained, including Jerusalem.
>Seventh Crusade
The last "real" crusade, launched by Louis IX. Despite being a military defeat, Saint Louis was so BASED and VIRTUOUS that the Saracens voluntarily abandoned Acre. Diplomatically it's sort of a succes.
>Eight Crusade
Stopped before it started.

All in all they weren't failures. The real problem was the very nature of the Seventh and Eight Crusades: they were Saint Louis' pet projects with exactly zero foreign support. They were entirely French affairs rather than Papal affairs, showing that the erosion of Papal authority killed any enthousiasm for further crusading efforts. For reference: the Seventh Crusade ended in 1254, and the (Second) Kingdom of Jerusalem ended in 1291, almost half a century later.

>>53874453
>As much as i love my church
Vatican II is a joke. Hell, the modern Catholic Church is even straight-up anti-apologetics because it's "anti-atheist", "anti-muslim" and "anti-protestant" (no fucking shit). The Society of St. Pius is probably the closest thing to a real successor to Vatican I.

>>53873263
How many times have you had to crush a revolt and how built up are the provinces infrastructures?

>>53871346
> Patriarch of Mars
That sounds actually pretty radical.

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I would, but the stars aren't right, you know?

>>53871220
Guten tag, Bruder. I too hate Voltaire and love Karl der Groß, but the Byzantines are also Roman.

>>53875447
Well, considering how we Orthodox do things...There probably would be a Patriarch of Mars. Whether there should be a Patriarch of Earth would be its own bag of problems.

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>>53876454
>I too hate Voltaire and love Karl der Groß

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind
>Widukind became a hero for German nationalists in the early 20th century.
>Christian nationalists also lauded him, linking Charlemagne with the humiliation of French domination after World War I, especially the occupation of the Rhineland, portraying Charlemagne as a "French" invader.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_France
>Philip II, known as Philip Augustus (French: Philippe Auguste; 21 August 1165 – 14 July 1223), was King of France from 1180 to 1223, a member of the House of Capet. Philip's predecessors had been known as kings of the Franks, but from 1190 onward, Philip became the first French monarch to style himself king of France.

>>53876505
I imagine you'll work it out when you get there. With a lot of shouting.

>>53871088
They managed to survive for a 1000 years despite constant warfare on two fronts, thats an amazing capacity for resilience. Maybe if civil war hadnt been their favorite pastime they would still be around today.

>>53875052
I was able to Max out all my castles, don't really know how my vassals fared.

>>53877087
The price you pay when you make the highest office of the land open for anyone that can take It.

>>53877248
>>53877087
It would have helped to not lose almost half of your nation and arguably the most important bits to Muslim invaders because you were too busy having a dick swinging contest with the fucking Persians.

>>53871220
Eh. It's like a band that one-by-one replaces its members until there are no original members left, except maybe the singer. If all the members had quit at the same time and been replaced by a whole new line-up, nobody would say it's the same band, but bit-by-bit is a different story.

>>53871088
>What's the deal with the Holy Roman Empire? It isn't holy, it isn't Roman, and it isn't an empire. What's the deal with that?!

>>53879346
germans being germans

>people being unironically religious in 2017

Wew lad

>>53871088

Medieval Roman Empire means an alternate reality where the Western empire managed to hang on and eek out an existence as a polity.for another few hundred years.

If you are talking the East then you have to specify that,

>>53879858
Enjoy being enlightened by your own intelligence you euphoric fuck

>>53880490
>actually needing to play pretend in real life

lol you're supposed to keep that to the roleplaying games s m h f a m

>>53871107
>These borders
Literally indefensible. You have two halves that are completely incapable of supporting each other because there aren't enough trees for the empire to maintain a navy large enough to transport armies and supplies between the two halves, and your entire eastern border has no natural borders.

>>53880781
>your entire eastern border has no natural borders.
Anatolia is a pretty good position to defend. It's full of mountains with rather narrow passes that can serve as chokepoints and as the map shows, it is dotted by rivers that could also serve as a good defensive line.

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>>53879858
>People are actually religious in THE CURRENT YEAR? How can people actually believe different things from me in THE CURRENT YEAR?
You've fallen for the Marxist meme of teleological history, especially in regards of the proletariat abandoning the 'opiate of the people' to eventually achieve a workers paradise on earth. You probably believe that our 'enlightened culture' has 'outgrown' Christianity, which is but a stale remnant of a darker age. The numbers actually dictate the opposite (and you'd think numbers would be the first thing you'd go for, considering how much New Atheists love the words "logic" and "reason").

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/07/why-people-with-no-religion-are-projected-to-decline-as-a-share-of-the-worlds-population/

The religiously unaffiliated (not even atheists, and there is a difference. For example, in the US about 25% are unaffiliated, but only 3% identify as atheist and 4% as agnostic, with the rest being more wishy-washy "nothing in particular" or "I don't know") are projected to marginally grow in total numbers but spectacularly decline as a share of the global population. So not only are there still religious people in THE CURRENT YEAR, there will actually be a lot more of them in THE FUTURE YEARS.

>B-But Christianity is declining in Europe and the US! T-these are the enlightened parts of the world!
And fertility rates are below replacement level in these regions (the US less so than Europe), as is the norm among the unaffiliated. Europe now actually has to import Muslims in order to replace their heavily declining (or at best stagnant, but only Catholic Ireland has that luxury) population. Far from being free from religion, Europe has only opted to be oppressed by another, far less tolerant, religion.

The progressive paradigm of Europe outgrowing Christianity is far from the truth and the numbers actually dictate the opposite: Christianity is outgrowing Europe.

>>53878681
Let's not forget that was the fire worshippers that started this whole debacle.

>>53879959
>He believes the ERE was an entity separate from Rome and it's traditions

>>53871088
because i like guns

>>53871346
>Stalin was a saint
They are already at this level. Patriarchy of Mars when?

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>>53885249
Is flamethrowers one of those guns?

>>53871088
Because this shit is so fucking over-used I'm amazed you consider it rare, OP

>>53885450
Well I've never participate in any RPG with it being the background, mostly is mystical france and scandinavia.

>>53871220
>>Don't speak Latin
Greek was the language of the Elire during the republic.
>>Don't practice the Roman faith
Christianity is Roman as fuck
>>Didn't control Rome throughout its existence
It's the ROMAN empire, not the empire of ROME.

The city didn't mean shit, it's citizens did, and since Caracalla there were a hell of a lot of citizens outside rome.

>>53871088
Because I use the Holy Roman Empire from XVI century. It's more fun this way. Nobody can solve that clusterfuck it became! The emperor pretends to be ruling, the lords pretend to be ruled! No matter where you land your ass there's a power struggle happening! Free cities feuding with nobles, nobles bickering between themselves. Every other square foot of land have some different laws! Imperial bureaucracy serving only itself and ever expanding!

>>53884582
It was actually the fire worshipers avenging the brutal murder of a dear friend of the current Sassanid Emperor, who owed both his life and his position to the Byzantines.

>>53884582
>Everything changed when the fire nation attacked

>>53885970
Which is why I like the byzantines so much It's a realm with a greater stability than it's neighbours. A clear chain of command and learned populace for the time atleast.

>>53884599

It literally was.

Debating it is a meme.

>>53886729
>It literally was.

The ERE split when the WRE was still around, anon-sama.

>>53886788

That's kinda the point.

If Britain fell during WW2 and become something else entirely and King George took his family over to Canada - after a few hundred years we'd stop calling it the British Commonwealth and recognize it as something distinct.

>>53886262
Maybe it's a better place to live but I wouldn't prefer it that much for an RPG setting.

>>53886828
That's literally what happened in Brasil.

>>53886850
You just need to put your setting in a bigger scale, for example from the seventh to the tenth century the Romans had little control over the balkans and was fighting hard to keep what they had left of Anatolia their neighbours were slavic tribes and the Arab caliphate and they were fighting hard against the lombards to mantain the little that they have left in italy.
Pretty good setting to put in a table game

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>>53887214
>Byzantine Empire during the First Crusade

Okay, so you've got this ancient empire that has dwindled significantly in the past few centuries, but under the leadership of an energetic young emperor they seem to be making a resurgence. To the East, the decentralized tribes of foreigners who had invaded the Empire a century ago are seemingly incapable of organizing a unified threat to the Empire that seeks to reconquer their heartland. To the West you have a collection of petty kingdoms squabbling over petty slights and old grudges who have thus far escaped the hungry eyes of the Empire, offering them brief respite from invasion and, hopefully, enough time to consolidate their holdings and form a truly unified force.

Traveling through the Empire is a strange group of religious fanatics, whose belief in "holy war" is quaint or even vaguely heretical to the Empire. Their swords will be used against the tribes and their esoteric, mighty benefactors beyond, but the lands they conquer - lands rightfully belonging to the Empire - will be parceled out to the Crusading leaders.

>Pretty good setting to put in a table game

The easiest way to do this scenario, I think, is starting up a campaign of CK2 at the Alexiad start and letting the game run for maybe 50 years. Do this, grab the names and habits of the national figures, and convert them into tabletop characters. Nothing says "memorable" like an ambitious homosexual lazy-ass Emperor who nonetheless has lofty ambitions to conquer Anatolia and see his daughter married to the Hungarians.

>>53887318
I much prefer the Macedonian Renassance, but a Alexiad game would be pretty good.

>>53871088
Because my setting is post-Renaissance Age of Sail/Age of Reformation themed, so any version of the Roman Empire wouldn't make sense.

>>53887450
But what about your next setting?

>>53886828
>English Royal family still has french coat of arms in their heraldry

>>53886788
>The ERE split when the WRE was still around, anon-sama.
It didn't "split", Constantine's heirs divided the two. Both halves had an emperor, but (in title) they were both equally emperor of the entirety of the Roman Empire. When the West Roman Empire fell, the East Roman Empire didn't stop being Roman, it just meant that there was only one wholly Roman Emperor left of the entire Roman Empire, the Western half of which was occupied by barbarians. And then there's the fact that Constantine himself, who ruled over the whole empire singlehandedly, moved the capital to Constantinople.

>>53886828
The situation is more like King George moving the capital to Glasgow, and 50 years later London falling to muzzies.

That said, the situation you describe the backstory for Code Geass' Britannia (which does not include the British Isles). Fictional example, true that, but we don't really have any historical examples of this unusual situation outside of the Roman Empire.

>>53871088
Mongol Empire setting is way cooler

>>53887545
Code Gayass is shit.

>>53871346
What was schism over fashion?

>>53887545
>And then there's the fact that Constantine himself, who ruled over the whole empire singlehandedly, moved the capital to Constantinople.

Was controlling Gaul and Britannia always a meme for the Romans? If I recall, the vast majority of manufacturing, economy, population and culture was being produced east of Italy. The only Western possession whose loss was felt was Hispania, and that's only because the Iberian Peninsula is choke full of resources (particularly metals and ore.)

>>53887588
The schism that finally separated the Orthodox Church from Catholicism involved an argument over priestly raiment - a petty conversation, but there's been centuries of bickering before that so it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

>>53871302
The Roman Empire FEELS basic but is pretty much never used.
The true basic is some fusion of medieval England and France with some elements from the Renaissance to the 19'eme siecle.

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>>53887659
>The true basic is some fusion of medieval England and France with some elements from the Renaissance to the 19'eme siecle.

Which sucks because most people never actually roll with a proper England or France. Give me some Absolutism France with a literal Sun King, or England during the Heptarchy.

>>53887644
>Was controlling Gaul and Britannia always a meme for the Romans?
Gaul and modern France have a lot of arable land though. Britannia was mostly seen as a mystical land filled with all kinds of riches, only to be incredibly underwhelming when the Romans actually got there.

Neither were "worthless", but it's clear that when the empire was cut in half the Eastern half got a much better deal and ended up being significantly richer. The West on the other hand had agriculture from the Maghreb and Gaul, the ores from Hispania, Italia itself and that's it.

>>53887715
>literal Sun King
Wouldn't that turn France into an early modern Egypt?

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>>53887851
>Wouldn't that turn France into an early modern Egypt?

Yes.

>>53887563
Steppe nomads games are pretty shit in my experience

>>53871088
The most powerful empire in my setting is an Elvish empire that is a mix of the Chinese (to a lesser extent) and Persia and Byzantium (to a greater extent). The relationship between the central imperial elite and the rising landed magnates that push the borders westward is one of my favorite parts of byzantine history and so plays a major part in my setting.

>>53890918
>rising landed magnates that push the borders westward is one of my favorite parts
In my setting they push westwards, in Byzantium's case they pushed east/south-east

>>53887715
Or the rise of the centralized state, with a shrewd monarch who through intrigue, diplomacy and conquest increases the size of the royal demesne


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvGHp3YBEC8

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>>53887851
doesn't look too egyptian tho

>>53887450
>not the Holy Roman Empire
How the fuck can you have a reformation without religious wars in the empire itself?

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>>53871088
I'm actually using it in its later years as a basis for my setting. I love how it balkanizes and has a ton of successor states with similar cultures, and states that have risen to prominence on their own around it.

>>53880766
>pretend
I don't pretend.
I don't pretend i know if any divine goobly goop exists which means.
I don't pretend i know it doesn't

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>>53882623
Now if only we could say the same for the Mohamed heresy

What would have happened if The Empire was instead split into North and South, with Cyprus as the cutoff?

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>>53880781
>and your entire eastern border has no natural borders.

>>53893688
To be fair he's utterly wrong but the Western Empire had far easier borders to defend. The Rhine to the North, and the Sahara to the South. Nothing ever attacked from the South, so effectively they had just one very easy to defend border.

There's a reason why France has ceaselessly attempted to expand towards the Rhine: the Central European plain is the only real weakness in its natural borders, which makes the German lightning victory in Fall Gelb nothing more than logical. Imagine something like the Maginot Line across the entire Rhine (which the Belgians refused to cooperate in by declaring themselves entirely neutral), then the Germans would have close to no chance of entering France.

And somehow the West Romans fucked that up. That's what happens when you let G*rmanics into your country.

>>53894292
Anon, everyone knows the history - the Rhine river froze so it was solid enough to walk on, and a bunch of Germanics streamed in. Too many to hold back even if the Romans had tried. Rivers aren't as hard a border as actual mountains.

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>>53871220
>Didn't speak Latin

Neither did most Romans. Did you get your knowledge of Rome from Fallout New Vegas?

>>53894323
Gibbon go home, you made up the frozen rhine.

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>>53871220
>Literally the uninterupted continuation of the Roman Empire
>Not Rome

Do you retard thing that just because they evolved it means that they're not the same entity? If you go by that logic, then the roman empire stopped being roman because it stopped being a republic and the roman republic stopped being roman because it stopped being a kingdom

>>53895572
Diff anon
not going to directly defend that idea but i like a bit of devil's advocacy. (I personally believe the Turks did an immeasurable evil in killing the last of the roman empire.)
I mean it's a Theseus's paradox.
Thanks to the Marian reforms, the Latifunda problem, the over all Hellenization of the late republic, the loss of the myth of the roman farmer, the loss of duty to the state, the shifting demographics with large slaves imports and the ingratiation of Latin allies and Italian allies.
The republic did cease to resemble it self by the time Augustus took the stage.
And we honestly don't know how much of the imperial period is writing the future into the past, that story of Cato the younger being so determined that Livus Drussus could not effect him what so ever is most likely a bullshit but the Greeks believed in part in fundamental unchangeable character.

At what point do we categorize it as something else?

There is a reason why we need to break these period up between the pre-republic, the republic, the empire, the decline and the east extension because the Theseus ship has been replace so far that it is hard to recognize.
East rome would appear, ethnically, socially, militarily and culturally more akin to the successor states of Alexander to the Romans, republic and possibly up to late empire. So why refer to them as a Romans at all? We do not refer to the kingdom of Ptolemy or the Seleucid empire as Macedon, despite rising from the Hellenistic generals and being at the top level (much like east rome) Aristocratically Hellenistic.

>>53896258
Because they were the uninterupted continuation and they kept calling themselves roman and identifying with a roman identity instead of being a successor state until the 4th crusade. It evolved throughout the years just like any other state. They kept the same laws, titles and administration and added on top of it and remained "Rome" in both name and spirit. Is England not England anymore because it's no longer a feudal shithole ruled by retardedly aggressive french vikings?

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>>53896359
>Is England not England anymore because it's no longer a feudal shithole ruled by retardedly aggressive french vikings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJheODYpuEI

>>53871262
>>53871290
>>53871303
>>53871698
>>53873383
>>53876454
>>53885804
>>53894394
>>53895572
You're all a bunch of uneducated g*yreek barbarian plebeians. Go crucify yourselves after you're done having disgusting ass sex with each other.

>>53896468
Woah there, Powell. One city being remarkably multicultural does not mean it's no longer part of a larger culture, otherwise America would have pretty much no American large cities. Give it a generation or two and those strange foreigners will be the most English Englishmen, eager to assert themselves as being English instead of the parentage of their fathers and the most likely to hate on immigrants.

>>53897594
diff anon
>Give it a generation or two and those strange foreigners will be the most English Englishmen,
I do not believe so and i say so as a 4th generation immigrant from the most commonwealth Indian family to ever waltz out of India (Muslim) .
When we entered in the 1900s there was a mechanism for assimilation and a recognition of the need to maintain a unified culture (because culture more than anything else binds a nation).
Without such a system, and when dealing groups that are stubbornly isolationist and holds notions of their own cultural supremacy (seriously how anyone can look at Islam and not see it as an Arab supremacist religion befuddles my brain and we're apostates of said religion.)
Time will make fools of us all but the game has effectively changed, you aren't dealing with the same system that believes in the supremacy of it's own culture or even the value of it either (i think the British people have a wonderful culture). The auspices of Islam is a whole different system and one that most western folks are completely unaware off despite it's history. weird given Islam once was a majorly progressive system and now it is the most regressive religion and ideologue in the world second only to communism

>>53871088
Isn't that basically Conan? But I get my goolies off to Ancient Empires so I can't complain.

>>53900114
>bwah bwah bwah, my grandfathers integrated but those barbarians never will, I tell you so I can feel a smug feel of superiority while the lost link between humans and australopiteks will beat my ass for not being white enough
You're digging your own grave, fella

>>53871088

Because we're fucking fantasy parthians you jumped up Italian swamp hicks.

>>53900114
>>53897594

And here we see the proof of Anon.94's case. You wait a bit and the latest immigrants will be shitting on how the next guys will refuse to assimilate, unlike them.

>>53902010
>And here we see the proof of Anon.94's case. You wait a bit and the latest immigrants will be shitting on how the next guys will refuse to assimilate, unlike them.
1. Islam a shit, shit we fled
2. the mechanism for assimilation is different my dude.
3. immigration
I'm more opposed to Islamization of the west being a filthy polytheist and having apostate family members and all.
I mean it's not many groups that can get away with spouting Heil Hitler in the streets of German today.
And those sorts of people are more likely to change the culture because they know they can get away with shit.

Others are fine, my country men for some reason are getting along fine. They don't have to have apologies for dogs being on advertisements. Other groups are damn hard working folks and good ones at that.

>>53901758
>superior
>smug
I believe the situation has changed, my family adjusted because we knew we had to. We've been in the common wealth for longer than multiculturalism, and when England was still a declining empire.
If you ascribe impositions placed upon the individual to be something that allows a person to be smug and cocky then you are a fool.

> my grandfathers integrated but those barbarians never will
Often people don't do things unless they need to, they do it because they have to. They no longer need to, so why would they?

> will beat my ass for not being white enough
No i will beat your ass for being a lick-spittle for Mohamed.
The religion is shit.
The culture is regressed.
And the people need to change.
All i want is to make sure of it and i don't think I'm unreasoned to do so..... given the rate of terrorist attacks that happen europe right now

>but..but it has nothing to do with this book written by an Arabian warlord while he was conquering Arabia

the religion needs to be Crushed, Squeezed and maybe it can join the big boy table with Hindu's buddhists, Sikhs, Jainists, Christians, Jews and all the smaller ones that don't kill people

>>53882623
>the US and England have stagnant populations

what the fuck am I reading

>>53902470
i think he means germany

>>53893102
The Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor Empire.

More to the point, the "reformation religious wars" are more happening underground, to the drow, as the matriarchy of Lolth finally crumbles under its own weight.

>>53902381
>don't kill people
>Christians
Remember Kony?
>Buddhists
969 movement?
>Jews
Yeah, Israeli government torturing Palestinians doesn't count because they have titles like "president" and "minister"

You do realise that the refugees are actually fleeing radical Islam too?

>>53902502
I'm pretty sure the eastern bloc can keep their populations without importing muslims by the boatload, and the stagnating populations in the US, who are mainly protestant, are being replaced mostly by hispanics, who are... catholic.
>>53902593
People would be more inclined to believe that was the truth if they didn't act like total shitbags in their host countries

>>53902593
>kony
As in the LRA?
I mean it's Africa they've got several mujahideen groups in africa fucking around I think boko haram is actually one of the biggest groups come to think of it.
Point is shit is sort of fucked in africa

>969 movement
oh yes the anti -Islam movement
I've only heard they exist and they are anti-islam and that they are terrorists.
Not how much they have done.
They are closer to the golden dawn, they are revivalists and tied into nationalists.

>Yeah, Israeli government torturing Palestinians doesn't count because they have titles like "president" and "minister"
Haven't heard a thing about it, the only thing i've heard is outlandish things from my Iranian friend who claims jews pour gassoline and tar down their throats and light it on fire while also espousing anti-Semitic things like Jews run the world.

Pound for Pound, all of these cannot compare to the body count you get from Islamic terror and violence.

>You do realise that the refugees are actually fleeing radical Islam too?
Nice maymay my dude
you know Muslisms come from outside of Syria right. (BUT MUH MIGRATION CRISIS)
>Moroccans, Syrians, Tunisians, Pakistanis, Afgannys, Saudis, Indonesians and so on.

I'd be more inclined to believe they opposed the mujahideen if they didn't advocate for Sharia and if they didn't shout down reformers.
As long as Linda Sarsour remains a "moderate Muslim" and faggots like reza aslan still kick around, along with the alarming rates of crime and terrorism(one unplanned act of terror a week, one person arrested in the UK alone for charges of conspiring to commit terror) coming from these communities remain we cannot shelter them.
there must be reform.
There must be change.
And gibbering on about generally contained groups does not change anything, Islam is here. Terror is now.
And if you do not deal with it here and now then you will find that people will go fucking nuts.

>>53871220
You were right anon. All the other's are idiots. Greek was the language of slaves, not the language of Romans. If you didn't speak the language of Romans, you can't be Roman. Simple.

Roman faith, well that one is actually a sticky subject since the Romans got rid of their faith and adopted a heretic Jewish faith. So...

And this is the final nail. Without Rome, Romans don't exist. Just like Americans are not English anymore. Mexicans are not Spanish. And the Japanese are not Chinese. Different location, different culture.

>>53902898

>>Oh no Linda Sarsour
>>Oh no Reza Aslan

Your examples of unacceptable preachers of radical islam are....

A sufi and a milquetoast feminist?

What terrified faggotry is this.

This cowardly bullshit puts the 'phobia' in 'islamo-phobia' because it is clear that your issue is that you are existentially terrified of mudslimes. You don't actually care about the facts about what random religious terrorists have done, you care about what you heard about them and how much they play into your fear of The Amorphous Mussel Men.

>>53896548
Have fun with the Goths in your backyard Gaius, don´t be salty that we Romans are still around

>>53900114
>Arab supremacist religion

Funny thing that the largest muslim countries are in order:

Indonsia
Pakistan
India
Bangladesh
Nigeria
Iran
Turkey
Egypt

Only egypt is arab, and not even 100% a lot of Sahara nomads live there as well. So no Islam is not an Arab supremacist religion, Arabs are right cunts though.

>>53902381
>We've been in the common wealth for longer than multiculturalism
You have been in since 1649?

>>53902535
>neither Holy, nor Roman, nor Empire.
Emperor was crowned by the pope

Rome was in the Empire for more than 300 years

It was actually an empire in its earliest years.

>>53903896
>So no Islam is not an Arab supremacist religion
It literally says that Arabic language is spoken in heavens. Although Persian culture was backbone of islamic high culture in the Middle East.

>>53902898
>you know Muslisms come from outside of Syria right. (BUT MUH MIGRATION CRISIS)
>>Moroccans, Syrians, Tunisians, Pakistanis, Afgannys, Saudis, Indonesians and so on.
Four of the countries you named have extensive safety problems.

>>53904074
First, the Koran says nothing about it. Second the thing that says it is a fabricated hadith. A single fucking google search will show you that Hadith is not followed anymore and not taken seriously.

>>53894323
People attacked from the south, just none as major as the barbarians to the North. A few small sub-Saharan tribes from Nubia and the future Sudan wold raid the lower empire during the earlier years of Augustus' reign. Eventually they and the Romans settled on an uneasy peace, if only because both were tired of fighting each other.

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>>53896548
Keep being assmad Roman filth.

>>53903970
This nigga doesn't know his Voltaire.

>Emperor was crowned by the pope

The first Emperor was, but so what? The Emperor was chosen by an election among the various princes of the Empire, but by the 1400s (about two centuries before the period I'm trying to emulate) that de facto always meant a Hapsburg, sometimes that various German princes hated (since that meant that the HRE was basically a captured ally of Spain and therefore forced into enmity with France, Venice, the Ottoman Empire, Switzerland, the Pope himself, and later the Dutch)

The HRE was even frequently *at war* with the Pope. They sacked Rome in 1527! They officially recognized Protestantism, a heresy, in 1555!

>Rome was in the Empire for more than 300 years

That doesn't make it a Roman Empire, particularly not given the time period I'm trying to emulate. By the 1500s it had even officially changed its name to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (which was unfortunate given that the two richest components of the HRE weren't even German, they were Bohemia (Czech and Slovak) and the Dutch)

>It was actually an empire in its earliest years.

It was an empire throughout its entire life. "Empire" is a poorly defined term that only colloquially means a state that rules over multiple disparate nations and peoples. But, for example, the Empire of Japan rules over a single people and nation, and the Empire of Trebizond was a tiny successor state to the Byzantine Empire.

The HRE effectively ceased to have any real claim of being an empire, though, once the individual prince-electors became more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor.

>>53906041
Oh I know my voltaire, he was a salty shitter

>The first Emperor was, but so what? The Emperor was chosen by an election among the various princes of the Empire,
Elected princes would become King of the Germans. They only became emperor after crowning by the pope.

And no, the Empire wasn't at war with the pope, the Emperor was, a lot of imperial princes supported the pope when the Emperor and the Pope got in a fight again.

>That doesn't make it a Roman Empire, particularly not given the time period I'm trying to emulate. By the 1500s it had even officially changed its name to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation (which was unfortunate given that the two richest components of the HRE weren't even German, they were Bohemia (Czech and Slovak) and the Dutch)
Dutch are German in this era.

But anyway, the HRE
>Emulated Roman Culture
>Emulated Roman Religion
>It lingua Franca was Latin (The clergy acted as diplomats, translators, messengers and collectors of spiritual and physical knowledge).
>Rome was center of the Empire for a while
>Emperor got crowned by the Pope in rome (until the schism)

>The HRE effectively ceased to have any real claim of being an empire, though, once the individual prince-electors became more powerful than the Holy Roman Emperor.
When were individual princes more powerful then the Emperor? The emperors still won the 30 years war.

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>>53874619
>The Society of St. Pius is probably the closest thing to a real successor to Vatican I.

Vatican II had some good ideas, the focus on scripture and the changes to liturgy are great. Also the calendar in general needed a rework. The only thing I dislike is the general tone of ecumenism, this current obsession with the opinions of heretics and heathens is something I will never understand. But SSPX are a bunch of slack jawed reactionaries who seek to blame troubles stemming from modernity on Vatican II.

>>53903935
Seriously? i thought the formal modern form of it was rather recent.

>>53904156
>unacceptable preachers of radical islam
i never said they were radical.
I said they were off issue because they are touted as moderates when they were not and you choose to ignore that.
The radicals can't be changed but these are "moderates", these are the people who are supposed to help assimilate the people. Help bring the faithful into the fold and help modernize the faith so it's not quite as stupid. Much like had happened for the Christians.

>milquetoast feminist?
a very shit one who demands sharia law, praises Saudi Arabia for it's Human rights, is a raging anti-semite and shits down the necks of reformers.

>A sufi
I never knew he was sufi, generally i think Sufism is great. But damn if that man doesn't get my hackles up. He's a very shit representative of his faith i doubt you'd disagree with that. If I'm also not mistaken he works with NIAC as an adviser (weird i heard that Iranians don't like Sufism) which also doesn't look good on him. Like when you deal with.

They were not meant to be radicals, but failed moderates. And moderates are the ones who are going to help assimilate the people, being them into harmony with the population at large. I want this, I assume you want this. what's the issue?

>>MUH PHOBIA, YOU ES SCARE.
Well shit some wisdom on me. Where am i going wrong? Why is my desire for reform and assimilation wrong? If we have this sort of conversation then we can stop the /pol/ crazies from craving open this Gordian knot by the sword (and only they want that).

opps.
>>53907514

was for >>53903337

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>>53902652
>I'm pretty sure the eastern bloc can keep their populations without importing muslims by the boatload

>mfw the Eastern Bloc, once seen as a decaying symbol of the failures of Communism, is the last bastion of Europe as Germany dies moaning in the metaphorical back-alley

Shit man, I'm actually kind of liking this metaphor I've got going. Germany's the equivalent of the Club Slut that spent decades partying and sucking cock in the bathrooms, and now that she's old and flabby she's desperate to get a man - any man - to squirt their baby batter into her.

>>53906330
>Dutch are German in this era.

The German princes of the HRE disagreed. As, for that matter, did the Dutch.

>Emulated Roman Culture

In what way?

>Emulated Roman Religion

No, it emulated a Semitic religion that had passed through Greece and then ended up in Rome.

>Rome was center of the Empire for a while

For like 100 years max out of its 900-ish year history.

>When were individual princes more powerful then the Emperor?

Once they started being able to ignore the Emperor when it suited them with little consequence. Like, say, around the Reformation era, which is what my setting is roughly analogous to.

Although, again, the Reformation equivalent is actually the collapse of Lolth's matriarchy in drow cities. Which also has French Revolution overtones.

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>>53871112
BUT THATS FUCKING WRONG YOU FUCKING DOUBLE BARBARIAN
THE EASTERN ROMANS ARE ROMAN