Why do y'all fucking use orcs as fucking nomad raiders or

>>53852877
Because, as you pointed out, hobgoblins are filling that niche.

>>53852877
>bringing race into it
For what purpose?
Also greenskins are English soccer hooligans.

>>53852877
Because World of Warcraft happened

>>53852891
Hobgoblins are fucking unnecessary then.

Greenskins in general are a retarded concept and shouldn't be used in any proper setting.

>>53852877
Wait, I know that range.
Those are 1/72 half orc pikemen from dark alliance.
Useless for lotr sbg but great for smaller scales.

>>53852891
But why are the more interesting hobgoblins so seldom used? Because they aren't called orcs, that's why.

>>53852877
>and were masters of industry
You mean their masters were that. Orcs were slaves that did what their masters told them to do.

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>>53852877
Because I don't care about Tolkien.

>>53852939
Orcs were explicitly skilled at the construction of machines and instruments of torture. Not their masters, the orcs themselves.

>>53852877
Because Gygax and Arneson were retarded chimps that couldn't grasp the meaning of the books they loved, so they butchered them, threw them all into a pot, and shat out the mythology of D&D

Also, threads like this usually work better when you lead people right up to the obvious conclusion, so that way they can reply and feel smart. Eventually you'll get enough replies, someone will start an argument over something tangential, and you might even get some good discussion out of it.

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>>53852935
You can't beat perfection anon.

>>53852877
Because industrialized orcs are a legitimate threat. It's a lot harder to come up with a reason why rapidly reproducing species with a culture dedicated to total war doesn't win all the time

>>53852899
Because this is obviously a thinly/mediumly veiled bait thread

>>53852926
You know what would be original?

Some green and purple memery.

Make Orcs and Dark Elves the ultimate partners in crime. A symbiotic relationship between the two races.

Also, give them an affinity for rape.

>>53853015
>Everything I don't like is a bait thread

I remember when /tg/ wasn't nothing but general threads

>>53853032
Why else do you think he brought up africans? It's obviously /pol/ bait

>>53852989
I am still salty that scene didn't make it into the movies.
Did a lot to flesh out the orcs without making them too sympathetic.

Hobgoblins are nomadic soldiers like the Mongols using regular goblin tinkerers as their industrial base and bugbears as terror troops. Their rampage only stopped by their own mysticism.

>>53852877
Because orcs are a stand-in for 'the enemy' whoever that happens to be.

In Tolkien's time 'the enemy' was the Germans, so orcs were a heavily industrialised, relentlessly belligerent, race hell-bent on conquest.

For a long time orcs were just generic marauding savages. I suppose if you wanted to continue the theme from Tolkien, the more accurate way to do it would be to make orcs like our modern enemy; religious fanatics waging incredibly blood-thirsty, guerrilla war in the hot, sandy, arse-crack of nowhere, with occasional suicide attacks carried out by fourth-columnists in civilized countries.

>>53852920
Yep

>>53853059
He brought up Africans because Orks are literally treated like noble savages from the deepest parts of niggerland.
Not everything that offends your sensibilities is /pol/, you fucking snowflake.

I want Liberian Orks.

>>53853059

Are you legitimately trying to imply that the Orcs aren't presented as tribal savages all the fucking time?

Sometimes they're african black, sometimes Native american, sometimes South American but its clearly built into ideas of cultural superiority.

Like let's not go full denial, alright?

>>53853077
>For a long time orcs were just generic marauding savages. I suppose if you wanted to continue the theme from Tolkien, the more accurate way to do it would be to make orcs like our modern enemy; religious fanatics waging incredibly blood-thirsty, guerrilla war in the hot, sandy, arse-crack of nowhere, with occasional suicide attacks carried out by fourth-columnists in civilized countries.
Don't you mean people with colorful hair in really weird styles that shun violence but really love to get violent if you dare to not be one of them?

>>53853092
Except when they're portrayed as an industrial species that utilizes mass produced weapons of war and pragmatic battlefield tactics.

>>53853092
Only in shitcraft.
Tolkien orcs are essentially short mongols with long arms and wide mouths.

>>53853126
No, that would be modern elves.

>>53853162
Except industrialized and sedentary? Tolkein orcs aren't nomads.

>>53853211
Yes, their described appearance is like "to the Europeans, least lovely mongol-types".
Doesn't mean the fuckers don't make ample chainmail and swords to go and stab people with that are considerably taller than them.

>>53852877
Orcs are meant to represent change and progress in forms that goes against the culture and values of the protagonists. For Tolkien they represented the brutal and greedy nature of Industrialization which involved a migration of people to crowded cities in order to gain factory jobs and a general disregard to the well being and needs of workers.

For a modern group that means Orcs would likely be anti-equality, fascist, highly religiously motivated group that is doing very well for itself at the expense of it's rivals instead of trying to promote the globalized peace and equality other nations desire. So that menas Orcs are Saudis.

I like my Orcs to be Mongol stand-ins. To an outsider they seem like a chaotic mass of savages, but they've actually got quite the complex society, complete with a code of laws, currency, and infrastructure. It's just that most of the time the PCs will never see this, because they're only interacting with the invasive forces rather than firmly Orc-controlled territories.

>>53852877
>people playing D&D use D&D lore instead of LOTR lore
wild

>>53853142
...which is what OP is arguing for?

>>53853251
>they visually resemble Mongols
>this means they have the same culture
0/10

>>53853447
Smarter orcs who don't use da choppa or organize themselves into tribes, but are just as industrialized and organized as other races

>>53853447
He's acting like it's a new idea when it was the literal first iteration of Orcs.

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>>53853126
>implying sjws are a bigger threat than muslims

>>53853464
I never mentioned culture, just appearance.

>>53853494
>op says Tolkien's orcs weren't savages
>op is acting like the first iteration of orks were savages
What?

>>53853066

Which scene? I just recently got the time to start reading LotR and I'm still in the SummerIllidan.

Also I love when races are fleshed out differently. I hear orcs in LotR aren't like Warcraft orcs.

>>53853574
It's more fitting to call orcs monsters rather than savages.

>>53853522
>implying either is a bigger threat than white supremacists
Kek

>>53853609
>white supremacists
>a threat

They're toothless cuckolds. Their days are long over and even they know it.

>>53852877
Because Tolkien's orcs don't make any sense from a worldbuilding perspective.

His orcs are a sedentary race with an extremely high population density, but they don't appear to practice agriculture. How's that supposed to work? You've got hundreds of thousands or millions of orcs living in these arcology-scale places like Barad-dur, and yet there's just empty wasteland all around it. What are they eating? Where are the fields of wheat or pastures for cattle? Are the orcs importing all their food from their allies to the southeast? I mean, Harad is a desert, so there can't be much good to eat there. And if they were relying on imports, couldn't Gondor just siege down Mordor pretty quickly by blocking the trade convoys?

Tolkien orcs are basically a narrative device to advance LoTR's theme that industrialization is bad. It didn't really matter if they didn't make sense because the books have this whole quasi-mythic feel to them that keeps the reader from looking for realism. But in a RPG setting, players are going to ask these kind of questions and you can't just gloss over it as easily.

>>53853651
White supremacy is so lazy.
No distinction between actual races, just "this boy is white, those are the niggers, and the jews".
Even our racism is lacking from what it once was. Irish were barely considered human.

>>53853651
>>53853609
>believing in the Jewish lie of the "white" race
Any society that isn't cucked knows that there's more to "white" than a homogeneous blob of race.
Someone who doesn't see the difference between a Slav or a worthless Southerner must be fucking blind.

>>53853579
There is a scene in Return of the King where Sam and Frodo overhear two orcs on patrol, who are basically frustrated at the regular rank and file don't get told what's going on, rumours that Number Two (the Witchking) has been killed, that the higher ups have no idea what's going on etc
Basically standard soldier talk.

>>53853781
Anon, this might shock you, but orcs do have extensive farms.
The Gorgoroth plateau is a small part of Mordor used to muster troops, the rest of that big country is nothing but farm.

>>53853781
cannibal society

>>53853782
>Even our racism is lacking from what it once was. Irish were barely considered human.
American late 19th century racism was mostly just a way to give middle class hatred of the poor a sense of scientific validity.

Whatever group was poorest (generally the newest arrivals in America) would be characterized as racially inferior to "true" white Americans, regardless of where they came from.

>>53853796

Ah ok, thanks.

>>53853781
They were a large scale agricultural society. Just because the farms aren't shown, doesn't mean they don't exist.

>>53853312
Interesting ideas.

>>53853923
Not really.
Orcs are more a representation of a very negative state of mind.
We were all orcs in the great war after all.

if orcs are not niggers, how is anon supposed to get off on them raping his waifu?

>>53854259
Orcs don't rape, they never have.
Mostly because elves die of rape and they want to prolong their suffering as much as orcishly possible.

>>53853312
>saudi arabia
>fascist

it seems like you don't know what fascist means, retard

>>53854259
Orcs eat people, and vore is hotter anyway

>>53853789
>implying slavs are white

>>53854408
>elves die of rape
That sounds weird.

>>53854532
Their skin sure is.

>>53854532
>implying north africans aren't as white as any other Caucasians.

It's this division that allows the chinks to become a world power. We need to unite, or the industrial chink orcs will use subsaharan tribal nomad raiders orcs and the south american noble savages orcs to destroy us

>>53854806
North Africans?
You mean Arabs?

>>53854817
Those are North east and not even in Africa proper.

>>53854817
The real arabs are actually only a couple of millions. Most north africans are genetically Berber and have no Arabic heritage at all.

>>53853789
It's the Nordfags who are worthless. At least the Southern Whites had actual culture beyond pillaging and Merchantry.

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Hobgoblins are best race.

>>53852877
>Muh Tolkien
Fuck off. Tolkien is by no means the end-all-be-all of fantasy, and guys like you are exactly why the fantasy genre is a stagnating cesspool of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies.

>>53855198
You're right. We should just use green muscleman orcs instead of ones that actually mean something.

>>53855860
I wish people actually got Tolkien orcs right.
They're always portrayed as being beyond utter shit as combatants when in the books they're strong and capable fighters.

>>53853077
The term is "fifth column".

>>53854443
>what is islamofascism

>>53853781
>just empty wasteland all around it
Anon... volcanic soil is prime farmland.

>>53855860
>Implying you can't make "green muscleman orcs" mean something
>Implying repeating Tolkien's orcs over and over again is the only way to make something "mean something'

Fuck off. You have the creativity of a wet towel. You're about as innovative as medieval philosophy and its "what did Plato/Aristotle have to say about this?" doctrine.

>>53856026
Okay, come up with a good idea for orcs. Just one.

>>53853025
Thanks for the daily dose.

>>53856109
Green Musclemen Orks:
- Are born for combat.
Their women are muscular and their men are wired to love women with muscles.
Have instincts that are more aligned with violence and a great focus on dealing with these urges in daily life. This means honor duels, a lot of friendly sparring, a prevalence of martial arts, etc.
- Live shorter lives and require more protein, meaning that they have a mentality of burning like a bright candle. This means constant progress, be it in the medical field, in martial arts or just in status.
- Do not like war. War is not personal, it's not satisfactory. The engage in gang combat, though.

>>53854740

The only 2 ways for elves to die is by violence or heartbreak

>>53856288
You made GW orks but with women and more boring.
Congrats on being so creative.

>>53853089
What are Mongols?
What are Hunns?
What are germanic tribes that destroyed Roman Empire?
Stupid.

>>53852877
But i don't use orcs like that, Anon...

I have orcs as the first modern nation-states. Not the first INDUSTRIALISED nation, but the first to adopt a constitution; reform their government, military and economy; confederating into three major nations divided by lines based on ancient tribal ties, but now more based on culture and small differences in law and religion; and them promptly start curb-stomping much of the rest of the continent like a cross between Napoleonic France and Prussia, once black-market trading, slaving and organisation has closed the tech gap.

>>53853796
Fuck, I don't remember this, although, granted, it has been a few years since I read LotR. Was that when they were already travelling though Mordor?

>>53852877
I'm working on making orcs stereotypical Americans in my setting. Has that been done before?

>>53855938
Whoops, sorry.

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>>53852877
>and also much less racist.

I made my Orc, for a community-based D&D setting, into Not!vikings with a disdain for the divine. The orcs had a belief in reincarnation and thought that worship of the divines took a soul out of this divine wheel. They also had a huge thing about staying 'useful', as an orc has no fear of death; they only truly feared living a life devoid of worth. As long as an Orc was doing -something- to further himself, family, or village, they were fine with their life. But the moment they became senile or whatever, they were put down. "Beware an Old Orc" became a thing amongst my group.

I modeled them as "Godless savages who'll rape, pillage, and burn your town". I expressely told my group that they weren't a 'good soceity' or even a truly noble on, just a bit of depth behind them.

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>>53852877
I dearly apreciate Tolkien, but I don't loathe industrialization like he did.

I also wanted an enemy which could be a threat appearing anytime, anywhere, regardless of infrastructure or training. So they don't even know how to hanfle tools or fire, for they eat iron and metabolyse it into their bone tissue. BTW, their scars are also made of bone. These guys are fey-made and represent the once-dominant Fairy-Lands fighting back civilization.

>>53855982
Something Saudi Arabia doesn't practice. They are wahhabi absolutist monarchists

>>53856827
Yep.

>>53856987
real life