Paizo Games General /pgg/ (also /pfg/)

Well, submitted my app for JttW, hope it gets in, would love to play an uptight general surrounded by lewds, cutes and psychopaths

>>53843866
Protag messaged those changes to me a week ago, I just didn't want to change the first bit of the backstory until the setting data was more or less complete and I had the full picture to work with.

>>53844123
>GMT +0
>Monday 05:30 - 11:30
>Friday 05:30 - 20:00
>Saturday 00:00 - 18:00
>Sunday 00:00 - 15:00
Translates to
>GMT-5
>Monday 00:30 - 6:30
>Friday 0:30 - 15:00
>Friday 19:00 - Saturday 12:00
>Saturday 19:00 - Sunday 10:00
In other words I don't know why you think I'm not available on Friday, at least, and why my Sunday hours are not small. What the hell does Wist do if she has such a good schedule relative to GMT -5 while at GMT+8? IS she at GMT+8?

Anyone got any experience running a game for /pgg/? How'd it go?

>>53848430
>Master Summoner

You aren't doing yourself any favors.

What's a good instrument for someone that worships Shelyn to use? I'm split between singing or some type of wind instrument.

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>all that 2hu spaghetti right now

>>53848453
Where, in a Discord?

>>53848458
Discord, yeah.

>>53848453
I feel bad for him because he just. Doesn't. Get it.

>>53848453
Mate don't spill that shit in the thread, its not right

>>53848467
This is why you don't let autists GM.

>>53848453
Luna did nothing wrong!

>>53848458
In every Discord.

>>53848488
can we not.

>>53848488
Fuck off Sigh.

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>luna
>sigh
Who the fuck?

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>>53848540
For some reason people are bringing minor discord drama to the thread and.

I don't know why.

Just ignore them and it'll go away.

>>53848540
06/16-17/17 shall be remembered as the 24 hours of Spaghetti during which Tuv, Luna and 2hu all spaghetti'd

>>53848563
Isn't Luna only on the cabalcord? Did 2hu sperg in both discords at once?

>>53848438
Is that strong? I just grabbed summoner where I don't need to use eidolon. Should I just stick to no archetype and not have eidolon out?

>>53848563
Really the amount of spaghetti dropped in the past 24ish hours has been unreal, but I wish we wouldn't bring discord spaghetti to the thread

>>53848582
Master Summoner is literally the strongest possible summoner.

Why are you being summoner if you don't want to use Eidolon!?

>>53848563
What did 2hu do?

>>53848585
Because I want to summon monsters for extended periods of time? Do other classes have the opportunity to have minute-long summons? I thought synthesist was the OP summoner, what breaks master summoner?

>>53848606
Heightened Communal Mount tbqh

>>53848606
What breaks master summoner is summoning monsters for extended periods of time. This is also what breaks summoner.

Summon monster is gamebreaking.

>>53848582
You've pretty much automatically removed yourself from the running using Master Summoner. It's the same reason your Celestial Summoner archetype request was denied, it's basically the same thing.

>>53848606
Action economy. Synthesist is actually a downgrade to summoner and is mostly inferior to a well built wild-shape druid from level 4 on.

It's just really good from levels 1-3 aka rusty dagger shank town so most GMs auto-ban it. If druid had wildshape from level 1 it would be the same deal.

Also regular summoner gets minutes/level summons anyways

>>53848619
>>53848606
Heightened Communal Mount is actually suboptimal as a Summoner, because your spell progression is slowshit.

>>53848606
Synthesist is actually the weakest summoner.

>>53848650
Yeah but why play a summoner when you can play a Wizard and use HCM anyway

>>53848582
It's both strong and disruptive. Consider that the SRD actually has a disclaimer about playing Master Summoner because of how slow it makes the game, and even has the audacity to suggesting making other players at the table play your monsters for you. Then consider that online games can often already be slow.

>>53848662
Because you can play a Sorcerer and use HCM. Alternately, play a damn Witch and do it, and shit fortune buffs out of your ass like cum out of a whore's pussy

>>53848632
Should I just use regular summoner and not use eidolon? I am not sure what the difference is really, I could also just go oracle and grab the summon spells I suppose, maybe grab extend spell to fix it.

>>53848679
But sorcerers get spells later
Also they're scrubs and not cool

>>53848691
You should not make a summon focused character, you absolute shithead, they're cancer.

>>53848691
Play a regular summoner with a focus on the eidolon, it's the weaker of the two options.

desu summoners are cool in concept
They're just
So disruptive on the table and ESPECIALLY online because games are unbearably slow already

>>53848606
>Do other classes have the opportunity to have minute-long summons?
Yes.

>>53848710
They are the absolute worst.

>>53848717
In concept I don't think they're that bad but in practice yeah

>>53848691
You shouldn't play anything that focuses on casting lots of summon spells in a game ever, let alone an online one.

>>53848697
Man, Sorcerers are charisma based.

They're the epitome of cool.

They also just KNOW magic rather than having to study like NERDS.

Literally the only summon build I would think of as not total cancer is an ASM build focused on summoning a shitton of Aether Elementals, that just float around and act as telekinetic batteries from long range. They're flying and invisible, so all they really do is give you extra attacks.

>>53848691
You frankly shouldn't play summoner but if you just absolutely have to do it, focus on the eidolon

>>53848734
They only know a little magic though, unlike Wizards who know ALL the magic.

>>53834170
>Someone with 20 in any stat is supposed to be at the peak of humanity.
Hate to break it to you, but I have 21 Intelligence and there are a million people in the world smarter than I am.

>>53848741
Wizards don't 'know' any magic!

And they can only remember a spell once and then forget it like a dummy!

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>>53848742
LARPing has begun.

Suppose I'll swap over to oracle and not do summoning, just liked the idea a lot, but for the sake of a good game it just doesn't work.

>>53848752
Sorcs know like ten spells at level 7
A Wizard knows a hundred

>>53848759
Its just the nature of the mechanic, it bogs down games.

>>53848763
Wizards don't actually "know" a single damn spell unless they take a feat for it. They just write them down.

>>53848763
He CAN have a hundred IN HIS SPELL BOOK. There's no guarantee that he will.

Take that away and he can't magic for shit besides Read Magic.

>>53848769
Sorcs don't know any spells either, they need to take a feat for it to even write it down.
Sorcs are pussies because they have tiny itty bitty spell lists
Spell lists are like an arcane caster's dick size

>>53848773
>unironically having only one spellbook
>unironically not having sixty backups

>>53848754
It's not LARPing. I mapped the bell curve of 3d6 to a larger model with more granularity and no 3 and 18 limits. IQ and INT are directly interchangeable. They're both just measurements of how much an individual's intelligence is deviating from the mean.

Is Warpriest||Unchained Monk a good build for a wacky Scythe fighter? I figured Crusader's Flurry and going full Urgathoa would be the way to go.

>>53848779
>i-it's not LARPing! It's AUTISTIC larping!

>>53848780
its retarded but i like it

>>53848789
H-hayai!

>>53848779
>IQ and INT are directly interchangeable
Incorrect. 18 is the highest base stat possible at character creation, 20 with a human bonus towards Int.

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>>53848789
k

>>53848778
>Sorcerers don't know spells

Uh, yes they do. They explicitly know the spell, they have it entirely in their minds.

Also

>Wizards have infinite money to scribe all this shit

You know that getting new spells and adding them to a spellbook costs money, right?

>>53848804
*casts Cloudkill with my bonus 5th level spell slot*
Nothing personell...kid...

>>53848810
>You know that getting new spells and adding them to a spellbook costs money, right?
>money unironically being a problem for adventurers
>especially for Wizards who have multiple ways to simply shit out money and break WBL in half
The only reason this isn't an issue in most games is because the DM clears his throat and raises his eyebrows when you start pulling bullshit.

>>53848820
Do you want to add up how much it'd cost to have 100 fucking spells in sixty fucking spellbooks? Even if they're all level 1?

>>53848813
>casting cloudkill
>not using *pssh* as a sound effect
Wasted opportunity, your memeing license has been revoked

I should write an archetype, the 'White room' wizard, with access to all spells at all times, infinite money, and that cannot have their alignment changed by casting spells because they lose all sense of right and wrong

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>>53848810
I did the math a little while ago, and it'd cost an alchemist just under 700 gold to have every level 1 alchemist formula in his book.

Wizards have a fuckload more spells available than alchemists.

>>53848790
I might app with it if I see a ripe game that isn't too serious, allows Evil-ish characters, and allows gestalt.

>>53848833
Do you know how little your average arcane caster cares when he can shit out money without limit?

>100 spells in 60 spellbooks
I don't remember the cost for a level 1 spell (100 gp?) but it's not as if there are 6000 spells in the game to begin with. It'd probably be a million or so to scribe every spell inte game desu.

>>53848848
So Overlewd.

Why not play a human, /pgg/? I've noticed that a lot of people seem to try to diverge as much from Human as possible.

>>53848854
1. They don't, humans are probably still one of the most popular choices for a character
2. Humans are overpowered

>>53848852
Recall this fucko's level 7, yeah?

>>53848854
I only play humans or half-humans.

>>53848860
I'm aware of #2, but maybe I'm just annoyed with how often tieflings or even aasimar are basically the second choice, so my tables are nothing but tieflings and humans, especially when they just end up taking Pass for Human

>>53848863
Realistically Tiefs especially kind of need to take PfH depending on the culture they're in. A lot of times being a tief is not something you like.

>>53848897
Meant for >>53848883

>>53848836
I thought it washilarious, since he was making fun of me and secretly my favorite PC's signature spell is fog related and super weeby. She calls it Kitsune no Yomeiri.

>>53848883
Tieflings and aasimar are also very strong, and offer a lot of variety in stat choice

>>53848852
See >>53848846 as each first level spell will cost you 15 gold

each second level spell costs 60 gold to scribe in as well, which adds up super fucking fast.

Each third level spell will cost 135.

Each fourth level spell costs 240

You're talking about literally over a hundred spells for each spell level. let's assume it's an even 100, for the same of simplicity, yeah?

1500 for the level 1s, 6000 for the level 2s, 13500 for the level 3s, 24000 for the level 4s.

A level 7 character's WBL is 23,500. So you burned it all and don't have anything but spells - no magic items, no consumables, nothing, and you didn't even get it all. This is obviously an exaggeration, but even a fraction of what you're suggesting is too much.

>>53848854
Some favored class bonuses for other races are juicy.

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I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna romance a thrune, and I won't be stopped!

>>53848918
Honestly, I've found that I often was a better caster than a primary by being a Sorcerer with scrolls on hand than by being a Wizard struggling with shitty WBL.

>>53848918
>>53848863
Thought Fabricate was a level 4 spell for some reason, oh well; level 9 then.
>WBL
Well again my point is that an arcane caster doesn't really care too much about WBL, especially if he's not an adventurer and therefore can sell his Craft Wondrous Item at normal price.

>>53848948
Have fun! I hear it's difficult, but the rewards should be well worth it.

What's your plan?

>>53848883
Elves and Dorfs are rare tho yeah?

>>53848953
a better caster than a wizard*

>>53848918
Is that just the 'to scribe in' cost?

Or does that include stuff like 'paying another caster to let you copy from his book' or 'buying scrolls'?

>>53848854
>>53848860
To extrapolate on this point: Humans are powerful for feat-heavy builds in the earlygame. They spike quickly because of the bonus feat. Moreover, they have some of the best FCBs in the game.

However, for anything that isn't overly feat-focused in its build - unlike martials, casters don't require nearly as many feats to do their job - humans don't have any big advantages over other races. In these cases the half-bloods reign supreme, especially Half-elf and Scion of Humanity Aasimar.

>>53848971
Skilled is also really good for 2+Int or 4+Int classes.

>>53848967
it includes the cost of paying another spellcaster for the right to copy spells. you can cut the costs down by as much as a third from what I listed there, but that still means the level 2s alone would run you for 4000 gold.

>>53848954
Oh, you're talking about NPCs? Have fun being under the complete control of the GM then, you goalpost moving moron.

>>53848989
>you're talking about NPCs?
I'm talking about the world yeah, not about players since when it comes to players the actual abilities depend entirely on how good the player is at breaking shit, which applies to all classes.

>>53848984
It's not nearly as major of an advantage though. Skills hardly ever matter outside of Perception and your specialty (trapspringing rogues, diplomancing oracles, knowledgefag wizards, etc), and you usually have enough points for that.

>>53849012
Well the extra feat is obviously a massive dealmaker for a lot of people. Sometimes you just need that first feat faster.

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>>53848997
So you're basically ignoring the fact that we're arguing for relevancy in the face of PCs?

The hassle of doing all this?

the fact that NPCs don't have access to the rulebooks, and thus don't have the perfect spell for every occassion, even assuming they know Fabricate is a spell in the first place?

How about that whole thing with the GM trying to avoid breaking the world?

Your argument is flawed. You're pressing an "I win the argument" button without presenting a proper case.

>>53849037
>relevancy in face of PCs
We...were?
Because that doesn't even look like an argument to me. If PCs make each other irrelevant than they're all retards, and anyway - Sorcs are spellslingers, Wizards are Batman and actually being able to use metamagic.

>>53849037
>Pretty much all of the published Paizo casters are gimmicky assholes with sub-optimal spell lists
>Even if they would have "I win" buttons, their personalities often prevent them from just using it unless pressed to the wall

I don't even know what the guy's talking about, even NPC casters have flaws and personalities and moralities that prevent them from being God.

>>53848954
Maybe 1% of GMs will let you break the game with Fabricate. 9 out of 10 who do are probably high at the time.

>>53849053
No, seriously, the argument you presented was "WBL doesn't matter because 9th level wizards don't give a shit". I understand that this stemmed from the point of the sorcerer versus the Wizard, but that's not where it ended up, and my point is that that doesn't work on a variety of levels, not the least of which is that the wizard would get lynched by the skilled labour guilds worldwide.

>>53849087
>Welcome to the advanced morality course here at Wizard school. Yesterday we covered the Wizardly Non-Agression Pact, and its vital importance to the operations of daily wizard life. Today we will talk about the dangers of impacting the market economy of mundane goods...

>>53849123
Hey man, wizards DO have appraise as a class skill. That's as close as you get to economic knowledge in Pathfinder.

>>53849087
>>53849123
It's not even that. It's just completely infeasible for a setting to support infinite money exploits existing. It would have to be a newly-discovered spell or every caster in the world would have to be magically bound from exploiting it. A setting can't sustain even a fantasy-level suspension of disbelief if an infinite goods button exists that is so trivial to push. At least not for me.

>>53849087
>skilled labor guilds
>skilled labor
>skilled
Evidently they weren't skilled enough

Can I get a link to the Discord?

>>53848650
What are you doing with HCM that is any good anyway? Doesn't seem that good.

>>53849310
Heightened Communal Mount
Alter Summoned Monster / Scrolls of the same
Congrats.

>>53849318
Oh right I forgot Anon wanted to play a summoning mage. I don't get excited for 6 long summons for the spell level.

Also sometimes one of them will roll nat 20 on its Will save, since they're just loyal horses and not under your control.

>>53849341
>for the spell level
That's what Heighten Spell is for.

>>53849330
>posting the link in the open
Retard.

>>53849350
It's the public discord, not the private cabalcord
Calm your tits cabalist

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Hey, /pfg/, first time posting here, and I've got a Pathfinder question.

Is it viable running Prestige Classes as a form of pseudo-Gestalt? As in, you pick a regular class, and you run prestige classes as a kind of concurrent thing?

The reason I'm asking is that while Prestige Classes in 3.5 was almost always superior and multiclassing was king, Pathfinder does a lot to incentivize sticking to your one class, and each class actually goes a long way in having different, interesting builds available to them.

So I've been considering lowering the requirements for some of the most basic prestige classes (Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Eldritch Knight; you know, the really basic ones) and then allow players to run it so that from lvl 2 onwards, they run prestige gestalts, meaning that you have one core class and one prestige class at all times, and if you want to multiclass, these are tracked individually.

I was thinking that you'd still be capped in terms of skills and spells/spells per day as according to your main/core class(es), and that you'd always use the BAB/Saving Throw progression of your core class - or possibly force you to take whichever is lower, fearing shenanigans, but that might become a bit of a bitch to track.

Thoughts?

>>53849350
You guys and your autistic secret clubhouse.

>>53849414
Prestige Gestalt is a semirare houserule and I've seen it work fine before.

Why is there no Ensoulment app dedicated to busting a move? Rhythm and Dance have a profound power that no one seems to recognize here.

>>53849414
Actually sounds pretty cool. Go for it.

>>53849414
That's fine. Hide in Plain Sight level 8 is about as strong as noncasters get though. Also take into consideration the ramifications of having an evil PC if you're new to this.

What kind of Tiefling is the most interesting? One with scales, feathers, red/blue/grey skin, chitinous skin?

>>53849457
Thicc and healthy, blue skin, with a tail made for teasing and a nice set of horns

>>53849457
Feathers and blue skin sounds cute.

>>53849457
HORNS

>>53849457
a while back, I made a tiefling with gray skin, sharp teeth, and a sickly complexion. Daemon spawn, she always looked like she was half dead, despite being healthy, because of her heritage.

She was crushing on the half-orc barbarian with 20 strength right from level 1.

>>53849474
Women I might shatter to pieces are my fetish

>>53849457

Vagina dentata.

>>53849474
>daemon spawn
>daemons reproducing
???

>>53849491
Tieflings aren't always the result of sex; fiendish energies result in them as well. Besides, thanadaemons are planners.

>>53849504
You'd kind of expect them to be like, barren / impotent or something.

>>53849514
Magic, yo.

>>53849491
>summon Erodaemon
>fuck her
>keep her around through le mystical energies
>she has a kid (probably screaming and crying because omfg I created life)
>send her back
Wasn't hard.

>>53849536
That's some committed rape right there.

>>53849422
It's weird, though, I've been thinking about running something like this for a long time, but I never see prestige gestalt crop up as an idea.. well.. ever. Cool to know I'm not alone with the idea, though.

>>53849443
Yeah, I know the classic issues with caster supremacy and fair point that this will mean some people capping out their powerlevels faster, but the more I think about it, 99% of caster supremacy issues are in their spells anyway, and I expect that prestige gestalt will actually favour non-casters by giving them more options (that many casters will practically have anyway).

About evil characters, I'm used to running things like Warhammer, and I don't foresee any players going autistic over it. If anyone is running a clearly evil character, I'll make it clear that they'll have to deal with the consequences of their actions if they try to be chaotic stupid about it, and anyone that wants to go Paladin Judge Dredd will likewise be made aware of the implications. Players not on the same page or characters at odds with eachother is fine, as long as they accept the shitfest that may happen.

>>53849536
Wouldn't that be a corruption of her very nature on multiple levels?

>>53849457
Subtle ones. Never liked the extremely overt 4e and onwards ones. Claws, a tail, maybe, some sharp fangs, possibly. Annah-of-the-Shadows style.

>>53849558
>>53849552
Yeah, which is why she'll have been violated on a deeply spiritual level. Think all the trauma stories of rape victims you've ever heard and add them together, then take that to the power of itself. It's like you're raping her soul.

>>53849569
Jesus christ, man.

>>53849558
I think more or less the only thing you could do to be even more at odds with the nature of an erodemon is to like, marry her or something, and pledge eternal love or some shit.

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>>53849569

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>>53849579

>>53849554
>If anyone is running a clearly evil character
Assassins have to be evil, unless you decided otherwise. You have to murder someone for nothing. Also the class says chaotic characters are usually not well suited to being assassins, so you might want to suggest Lawful Evil.

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>>53849579
>marry her and pledge pure undying love
>have loving sex for the purpose of creating more life
>cuddle her every day
>dimensional anchor and a bunch of magic stuff to make sure she can't leave and is magically compelled to hug you back
Now I feel truly evil.

>>53849611
Assassins murder for money, that's Lawful Evil.

>>53849629
Some people seem to be of the opinion that 'assassin' means 'indiscriminate serial killer' as opposed to 'person who is hired or contracted to kill people'

Which is weird, since Mantis Assassins got it right.

>>53849661
Hell, by that description, tons of adventurers are assassins.

>>53849629
No, just Evil. Where it falls on law/chaos axis depends entirely on how they go about it.

>>53849629
Actually that's only hired assassins. Assassins are just people who kill.

>>53849629
You can murder and get paid and still be Chaotic as fuck. Liking money doesn't make you Lawful.

What's the best Major Artifact?

>>53849677
>>53849683
>Assassins are just people who kill.
But that's literally not how the term works. OED: a hired or professional killer. Professional.

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>>53849569
>>53849579
Don't bully this qt

>>53849666
Welll.... in a broad term, yeah.

Although assassination is generally more specific.

While you might hire some adventurers to kill the shit out of a crime syndicate, an assassin will probably just be hired to kill the boss.

Even if the adventurers will kill the boss AS WELL, assassination tends to imply at least the INTENT of subtlety and precision, even if it doesn't turn out that way.

Adventurers also do random-ass shit like 'I wonder what's in this ominous hole in the ground'.

>>53849699
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assassin

I trust the most recent version of the OED reflects this definition as well but I can't link to that since I'm not a cuck.

>>53849666
Adventurers are assassins when they're hired to kill big bad guys. Consider what the answer would be if the lich's name was Adolf Hitler and his hideout was called the Fuhrerbunker. You'd certainly be an assassin.

>>53849716
>especially
The reason we have a word for assassin, as seperate from the word for murderer, is that assassins are generally professionally hired, organized, or both. Otherwise you just call them murderers or serial killers; assassins have a specific connotation.

>>53849727
>or from fanatical motives
It is true that 400 years ago it only meant hired killers, but now the definition is much broader. I blame stupid people.

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Alright, maggots. It's time for another serious motherfucking question.
You fucks did great last time, but I'm really fucking cynical about your ability to keep that shit up. Prove me wrong!


>http://www.strawpoll.me/13212505

>>53849771
What if I think it doesn't matter if it's PCs or NPCs?

Fuck this corrupt, 4-party political system.

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>>53849629
>Assassins murder for money, that's Lawful Evil.
>Lawful
>Evil

That assumes that they (practically) *only* ever murder as part of a contractual obligation, and that they do it solely for personal gain, not caring about the consequences or potential harm that they cause.

Honestly, assassins could theoretically be of any alignment, but I agree that the *archetypical* assassin should probably be Lawful Evil or occasionally Lawful Neutral.

>>53848852
>shit out money without limit
Yeah, this? Never fucking happens.

>>53849791
Gotta learn to commit, dirtbag!

>>53849797
A ton of archetypical assassins are NE.

>>53849797
Archetypical assassins who murder out of contractual obligation are Lawful Evil, because murdering someone out of contractual obligation is Evil.
The archetypical assassin is a silent professional who doesn't ask questions. Fee is paid, the organization doesn't forbid this type of work, someone dies. It's really that simple for the archetypical assassin. Real assassins might be different in multiple ways.

Personally I don't mind being in someone's magical realm, as long as it's not completely contrived. Sex androids? Knock yourselves out. Elemental Plane of Piss? No thank you.

>>53849838
I agree. The DM thinking about and presenting consequences of the existence of his realm instead of bringing it up whenever he's hard and forgetting about it is what makes the realm okay.

>>53849829
Professionals have STANDARDS.

>>53849829
>Archetypical assassins who murder out of contractual obligation are Lawful Evil, because murdering someone out of contractual obligation is Evil.
How is that Lawful in any way shape or form? An NE assassin doesn't murder his employer because that's bad for business. It's not always a belief system.

So you want to break the economy.

Wellllll.....

To use fabricate, you have to have a volume of the raw materials to do so. Then you have to make craft checks for every item you do make with fabricate if you want it to be salable. Then you need to find a market that isn't glutted. And then you need to negotiate for a reasonable price. Then you need to deal with the people you're tying to undercut. Then you need to deal with the druids who are kind of annoyed that you killed half a forest to make a huge number of wagons. Which you actually aren't selling much of because of a market glut that happened when the last guy tried it.

The whole 'wizards make everything trivial' is a bunch of /tg/ bullshit, because it doesn't work if you actually have to run it by a GM. Breaking a ladder in half to get two ten foot poles to sell doesn't work because you don't have two ten foot poles, you have two pieces of a broken later.

How does the Bloodrager stack up these days? How would you rate the Shadow bloodline that came with Blood of Shadows? Could anything fun be done with a Fetchling Bloodrager with the Shadow/Aberrant bloodlines (presumably Crossblooded)?

I was looking for a good Bloodrager guide, but despite a lot of people saying that the Bloodrager is incredibly solid and a good addition and so on and so forth, the last "Handbook" I could find was an incredibly outdated one from 2014 (and unfinished, at that).

>>53848854
Humans are generally considered to be the best race, and are also mostly boring. I prefer human-type characters, like Aasimar, Tieflings, Genasi, etc. I can't even explain why. I like humans, I guess, I just don't find them interesting to play, more mechanically than anything, I think.

>>53849849
>The whole 'wizards make everything trivial' is a bunch of /tg/ bullshit, because it doesn't work if you actually have to run it by a GM.
I agree that the 60 spellbook Anon was completely out of touch with reality but the complaint people have that stuff like Grease is OP is a legitimate opinion. I would say /tg/ overall is pretty realistic about where casters stand, just not that guy.

>>53849847
It's lawful because the archetypical assassin WOULDN'T murder his employer even if it were good for business that's not what an assassin is.

>>53849846
As outlined in their contract.

>have standards
Except they don't. Professionals do their job - when they don't, that's considered acting unprofessionally. If you're a doctor and a mass rapist and murderer shows up with a permit for treatment then you treat him if you're acting professionally, no matter how disgusting and repulsive you think the act is. They don't have standards they have a code. For doctors it's "if you are sick and you can pay I must treat you", in fact the strict reading of the code actually means you have to save them first even if they can't. For an assassin, the code is "give me money, if my code doesn't say this target is not eligible, I kill him, no questions asked". Professionals don't have standards, humans do. Lawyers might not like defending someone they KNOW is a murderer but they have to, because they're professionals.

>>53849875
>infinite wishes is reasonable
No, /tg/ is entirely stupid about how wizards and outsiders work.

>>53849897
There's no reason the wish farm wouldn't work short of divine intervention, which is code for DM Fiat.

>>53849897
So why DOESN'T Simulcrum spam work?

>>53849899
You mean aside from the fact that efreeti don't like granting wishes by nature? That the wish farm automatically assumes the wizard can never roll a natural one on a charisma check which automatically frees the incredibly annoyed outsider? That it presumes the wish granter - the efreeti or djinn - will automatically grant the wish in the least troublesome and most effective way possible because it should do whatever the wizard wants because the player says so?

The wish farm doesn't work because it presumes that the bound creature likes being bound and is happy to help the person who bound it without any real reward. It should apparently do so out of the goodness of it's heart because the wizard is a wizard, and no other reason.

>>53849899
How do you get infinite wishes from Simulacrum? It's probably the most banned/houseruled spell in the whole game anyway.

>>53849849
Cleric: restore corpse, purify food and drink and/or gentle repose. Infinimeats!

>>53849897
I stand corrected. Haven't been here much since 2015 but I thought I still knew what things were like.

>>53849930
It doesn't really have a choice. Djinn and Efreeti don't really have a stupendous Charisma score.

>least troublesome
Thoughtful Wish-Maker.

>nat 1
Kill it, it's a shitter monster if you're at the point you can cast Planar Binding.
Obviously the DM can fuck you up if he feels like it, as he always can, but the Wish Farm and the Simulacrum is banned because there's no reason you CAN'T use it. You have to realize that all of these "exploits" are per RAW - not per logic, because that's not the point of the meme builds. They're not even meant to be unironically run, at least not in normal games, unless you're the type who thinks fucking Pun-Pun is a serious attempt at a character.

>>53849611
If the player comes up with a good excuse, I'll waive practically any rule. But I was just spitballing anyway. I'll probably also allow someone to take Shadowdancer even if they don't have all the feats yet, as long as they take the qualifying feats as soon as they possibly can. Lowering the Skill Requirements for Master Spy, too.

There's lots of potential "entry-level" prestige classes that can be easily tweaked just a little bit downwards to allow you to take a gestalt prestige class at lvl 1 for almost any type of character.

>>53849914
>500 gp of powdered rubies per HD of the simulacrum
Here's your first problem. The theory craft automatically assumes you will have at least 70000 gp in rubies to make a simulacrum of yourself. Mind you you have to be a 26th level caster for the simulacrum to be able to cast simulacrum. If you want to cast multiple simulacrums of yourself, you spend 7000 gp in rubies to do so every time.

Where, exactly, do these powdered rubies come from? Well, according to /tg/ out of the wizards ass. Because they have access to everything all the time. Except that's not how it works. The rubies have to come from somewhere. Blood money would work, but not immediately and every time, because restoration also requires diamond dust, which you need for other powerful spells.

WBL doesn't mean you automatically have X in diamond dust and ruby powder and such because those are spell components that have to have come from somewhere, and if /tg/ is right, then there are hundreds of thousands of wizards competing for that stuff.

Guess where you have to go to get those rubies? You have to fight other wizards who already have them or you have to make deal without outsiders, which are not interested in giving you something for nothing.

It doesn't work because the only way it really works is "player fiat".

>>53849996
>unreasonable commands are never agreed to
You don't get your wishes for free, because that's the ultimate unreasonable demand.

>>53849808
Yeah, not a bad fit, either. I'm associating the NE-type "assassin" with a type of common opportunist or thug, though, I guess. When I was thinking the archetypical assassin as a career choice, I was thinking more "professional".

But yeah, I guess Neutral Evil works just fine, too. I think the only alignment I'd have a hard time excusing for an assassin would be Neutral Good.

>>53849996
>You have to realize that all of these "exploits" are per RAW
But they're NOT. They're RAPresumed. Because of things like this little clause that states "unreasonable demands will never be agreed to". Wishes are powerful magic, and they aren't going to give them out for free - they WILL get a reasonable price for them because not to do so is against their very RAW nature.

>>53849829
>Archetypical assassins who murder out of contractual obligation are Lawful Evil, because murdering someone out of contractual obligation is Evil.
Absolutely, that's exactly what I meant. My only point was that there could easily be other types of assassins. But if you kill solely as part of a contractual obligation for the purpose of monetary gain, that's some solid-ass Lawful Evil, right there.

If you also kill in your free time, or don't really care about the contractual obligation part, then we're talking Neutral Evil. If you don't care about the contracts at all nor strictly the personal gain, and do the assassinations because you think it's fulfilling, that's Chaotic Evil.

Of course, there's other reasons, too, such as religious convictions or fanaticism, or as an employee in a machinery of some kind. So Lawful Neutral could absolutely work, too. Lawful Good if you're doing it as a form of penance or sacrifice as an agent of a good cause or a good-aligned church.

>>53849838
Magical realm is pretty much defined by it being completely contrived, though. If it's not contrived, it's just a game that happens to align with someone's fetish somewhere. And everything is someone's fetish.

>>53849847
>How is that Lawful in any way shape or form?
Because you're only ever killing as part of a contract. You've got standards and principles, and you follow a code. Textbook lawful.

Lawful doesn't mean following the law, in this context, it merely implies idealism, principles, structure, and a fundamental order of things.

>>53850065
By contrived I meant obtrusive and inorganic, something that could not plausibly exist in a fantasy world. I could've used a better adjective.

>>53849619
>>53849579
Yandere redeems erodaemon?

>>53850079
>Because you're only ever killing as part of a contract
That's not implied.

>>53850009
I think there's some way to heal the Blood Money ability damage for free but I've never found this topic interesting so I forget the details.

Learning the spell Blood Money itself is no simple task, though.

>>53850065
See my sex androids example for what I meant. Still contrived, but not unrealistic, whereas urine is far too specific a medium to have its own plane.

>>53850113
>That's not implied.
If you're a Lawful Evil Assassin? Yes it is. I mean, you could kill out of necessity, too, that never really counts for *any* alignment, I guess.

>>53850113
That's pretty much implied by any lawful assassin.

I want to FUCK Shelyn on our wedding night. What's the optimal build to attain consummation with this particular divinity?

>>53850143
>If you're a Lawful Evil Assassin?
Dude what? That's what's being debated.

>>53850143
>>53850152
We were talking about whether assassins are lawful, not about lawful assassins.

>>53850115
To cast a simulacrum that has 13 hit dice, you have to spend 14 points of strength, all at once 1/500x14 (7000 gp).

>>53850157
Bering a god would be a start. Also, she is fond of feminine figures (see who she hangs with).

>>53850157
>shelyn
You need to stop thinking about your build. Just let it be what it becomes. All you need to think about is love.

>>53850157
Birb race

>>53850189
>>53850194
>>53850206
>feminine birb that believes in love

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In 2017, what would you consider necessary to start playing Pathfinder? Just the Core Rulebook, or are there other "essentials"?

>>53850220
Just use the PRD

paizo.com/prd

Has all the main books you need in a new-player-friendly format.

Have I missed Adventurer's Armory 2 leaks? Or is it too soon?

>>53850220
The SRD and Archive of Nethys are indispensable. I want Hero Lab but I'm too cheap.

>>53850220
Core book, bestiary of any one type, and Advance Class Guide to actually use for non caster characters because only core casters are any good.

>>53850220
I would consider these to be essential:

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
>http://archivesofnethys.com/Default.aspx
>http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/

>>53850174
And my point was that they can be of any alignment, but that I agreed that the archetypical professional assassin-for-hire. I never even implied that all assassins were lawful.

It was questioned how an archetypal assassin who murder out of contractual obligation would be lawful; I explained why.

Is there some sort of guide or some shit on alchemy? As in, the stuff OTHER than making goddamn potions. Cause I'm finding assloads about alchemists and potions, but I can't find jack shit about what my rogue could do with alchemy. Can I combine a stun flash with a thunder stone to make a flashbang? Why the fuck is there a list of crafting supplies, when you basically magic up most shit out of thin air? How in the name of chemistry does it take an entire fucking week to make a small vial of acid?

I can't find shit on any of this stuff, apart from some whining about crafting being broken.

>>53850257
This confusion is because you never said "only out of contractual obligation." You forgot the word "only" and so we were confused when you said it was lawful because we didn't think amateur murders were excluded.

>>53850289
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rore?Guide-to-alchemical-items#1 seems to be what you're looking for. The various guides to Alchemist also have some stuff.

>>53848397
Who is the anime character?

I thought PoW errata was going to nerf stance and boost damage for full attacks. Did they not go through with that or did I just miss it?

>>53850410
Only half the errata was released so far.

Is starfinder out yet? Whats taking so fucking long?

>>53850422
Release is around August. They're too busy snorting cocaine off of prostitute asses to release it before that.

Forty-eight people would be rejected if Ensoulment closed today.

What a tremendous pillar of salt that'll become no matter who gets picked.

>>53850470
What is Ensoulment?

>>53850470
I'd fucking riot, son. Death to CCC! Gas the memes, cabal war now!

>>53850157
Shelyn isn't known as the Eternal Maiden for nothing, anon. She'll probably bring a Ghaele into the room and turn her into a carbon-copy of Shelyn while the real Shelyn watches in a corner.

>>53850482
A game recruiting on Roll20 that everyone's going wild over.

>>53850546
Tricking someone into sex with a person they don't consent to sex with is rape, Anon.

Are you calling Shelyn a rapist?

>>53850555
Thanks.

>>53850582
Of course not! I'm not saying she tricks you into banging the Ghaele, I'm saying Shelyn brings her in and talks to you about using a surrogate Shelyn to satisfy yourself! She can't exactly have sex with someone to keep her maidenhood, can she?

Shelyn's a fujoshi.

>>53850642
I refuse! I must win the full breadth of Her Love, Anon. More cute dates are required!

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What if I apped to Ensoulment as Fantasy Frank Sinatra? Is that legit? Will people embrace it? Is there a bard archetype that lends itself to that style and sound?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOVDBDQpD3I

>>53850807
Take your pick between Celebrity, Diva and Wit!

>>53850858
He's definitely a Diva. Shit talked Elvis til the day he died. I love his music, but the guy was a huge prick.

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this is a cat.

>>53850936
No, that is a spirit summoned by a spirit summoned by a hag.

>>53850936
Two tails means you gotta kill that fucker before it messes you up. That's basic cat math.

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But Yukari's only 17!

>>53850978
Giant tiddies on tiny torsos and super narrow shoulders confuse me. Like, I end up with this strange, semi-chub, as my brain rebels against my erection.

On that note, what's the best gestalt partner class for a cleric oriented around buffing, utility, and support melee/flank buddy stuff.

>>53851002
Why does your brain rebel? It's a real body type.

>>53851026
With THAT extreme a difference? They're just massive compared to the chest proper.

>>53851002
I've always been a fan of realistically proportioned chests, as well. It's why most anime girls and most fat-chested character art in games around here does nothing for me. The Draph are a wonderful exception to this rule, but then I'm just faced with the inexorable truth that giant titties being so ubiquitous has lowered their market value. When everyone's girls are extra large, the tiny tats become queen.

>>53851002
Bard

Bestiary VII when

>>53851055
Yep! There are a large number of factors that determine a girl's chest size, so sometimes a girl will have concurrent sources of boob growth, that contribute to each other multiplicatively, such as both excess hormones and heightened sensitivity to said hormones, resulting in enormously huge boobs. The tits sometimes become so huge that it's categorized as its own medical issue, breast hypertrophy. It's more common than you might think since most girls go under the knife to get them reduced at a young age, meaning what you see day-to-day doesn't reflect the true diversity of humanity.

It's certainly more common than blond hair or purple eyes on a Japanese girl.

>>53851056
>realistically
This word choice drives me nuts. It's not unrealistic if it exists in reality, by definition. Modest, common, practical, average; sure.

>>53851190
Are any bard archetypes good for a truly depraved hedonist shitter? I'm talking just a repulsive, snorts-ground-up-baby-halfling-bones-off-of-elf-booties-while-drinking-the-finest-virgin-Chelaxian-Blood kind of person.

>>53851201
Fascinating! I can imagine it would be really frustrating. Clothes wouldn't be right, the weight would be very irritating without a serious back and chest workout regime, and I'm sure the gawking would get old fast.

>>53850926
Elvis was kind of a shitter though
He's basically Justin Bieber, but fifty years earlier.

>>53851201
Yukari is like a lesser god, and I hestitate to even add the qualifier. I don't think it quite matters what she decides to look like.

>>53849771
>all these miserable fucks that don't value purity

Who the fuck raised you vermin? Was your momma too busy turning tricks to teach you how to act?

>>53851201
Draph are like, impossible to exist though. They're around 4 feet tall at most and all racially have breasts larger than G cups.

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>>53850936
So is this

>>53851222
Bra shopping is a nightmare. You think pants are bad? No two companies use the same size system, and worse, the shape of the bra is inconsistent from company to company. A 36B from oen company is a 32C from another. There's a reason girls try on so many bras....because an uncomfortable bra is about like wearing a mis-sized jock strap, but you don't get the option to go without unless you're really small (or don't give a fuck).

>>53851201
>Japanese girl
I never thought I'd use this word off /jp/, but you're a huge fucking secondary and blatant about it.
People forget about it a lot, but Touhou isn't just fanworks, tea parties and slightly obtuse dialogue segments - there are official print works (which are canon - the manga spinoffs usually aren't considered canon), novellas and CD booklet documents that explain a lot of little details about the setting.
One of them is that Yakumo Yukari is almost 100% guaranteed to be Maribelle Hearn, as ZUN has been very obvious with the foreshadowing - their looks are the same, their hat is the same, Maribelle's ability is at one point in one of the CD book stories theorized to be able to develop into something very close to Yukari's, 50% of Yukari's dialogue in tense moments hints at a very strange past, her blonde hair is called attention to a few times, Maribelle is the only character who doesn't exist in the current Gensokyo who could ever get into Gensokyo's past, Yukari is extremely well-informed on the modern world (to the point where she beats out Sanae, the literal modern high-schooler), and of course, Yakumo Yukari and Maribelle Hearn each reference Lafcadio Hearn/Koizumi Yakumo, a British orientalist writer who moved to Japan and became one of the first Westerners, if not the first, to completely naturalize in Japan.

>>53850936
Chen+Nazrin forever.

>>53851394
I thought she was Drakemere now

>>53849771
Fuck the skewed choices
Where the fuck is "it doesn't matter"?

>>53850009
>>53850115
Not that I'm saying you should expect every or even most wizards to do this, but just for fun: use Arcane Savant or one of a few other options to add spells from other spell lists to your own in order to get Restoration. Use Blood Money to power a 7K Simulacrum spell by voiding your circulatory system (you can use a spell like Monstrous Physique or Bull's Strength to get your STR score high enough to not immediately pass out from the STR damage), then use Blood Money again to fuel a Restoration spell to remove your STR damage (including the STR damage you just took for using Blood Money to cast Restoration).

I actually did that Blood Money + Restoration combo in a game before, though mostly only to fuel Permanency spells used to make preparations for our final assault on the BBEG's fortress so the DM was cool with it.

>>53851462
Don't give that commie shit, buddy. You need to go grab a burger, drink a beer, buy a gun, and think about what you've said before there's way to go back.

>>53851453
No, she got slime-like mutations to augment being a cat

She now subsists almost purely off sugary sweets to fuel that big nerdy brain

Dunno if this is quite the place to ask, but where should I look for art for a tiefling that has Pass For Human? I figure I can just grab something that looks human, since the idea is that even he's not aware he's a tiefling, but it'd be nice if there were some subtle hints in the pic; Like casting no shadow, or red eyes, or maybe his shadow has horns, stuff like that.

Blood money was a mistake.

>>53851493
This is not the place to ask.
In fact, there's no need to ask.
Google is at your fingertips. There are dozens of cracked Photoshop copies, image editing tutorials and free drawing courses online. If you can't find art by looking on Google - by the way, since you haven't told anyone anything else than that your character looks like a male human, we can't help jack - you could try to still your constant, cuckoo-like hunger for more and more free art by learning to draw or edit it in yourself.
Just imagine it.
You could, years ago, have decided to finally try something in your life, started drawing your own art and have a hobby and a potential job right there, together with all the art you'd ever want right there because you would be able to create it, exactly as you wanted.
But you were afraid of trying, and now you're begging strangers on an anonymous imageboard to find diffusely explained pictures for you because even Googling something has become too hard for you.

>>53851468
>no one will notice me takign advantage of this loophole.
>especially not Aeons, Inevitables, or the Efreet Maliks who police this kind of thing
>because player fiat is a thing

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What class would best capture the POWER OF GETTER RAYS?

>>53851554
Fuck, Anon, how much have you had to drink? I want some.

>>53851468
No kidding.

>>53851483
>>53851462
Why are people so scared of having opinions, nowadays? Every time I ask someone anything or even ask someone in-game a question, the answer is always noncommittal or "whatever" or my favorite "I don't care, it doesn't matter."

Apparently, nothing matters to Western people because they're always at a supreme lack of opinion unless the funny man says something on TV.

>>53851468
>implying casters have 12 strength to begin with
You still have to start with a minumum of 16 strength - 14 for the Simulacrum, 1 for the Restoration, leaving you with one to cast the spell.

Also, I suspect most GMs would not let a 5 HD efreet cast a full fledged wish, since they only have half their spell abilities.

>>53851586
Listen here, you fucking pinko Confucian motherfucker.
I fucking LOVE opinions. I've got hundreds of opinions. My first example is that you're full of shit.

>>53849771
>missing the option for Everyone
>missing the option for animal companions
>missing the option for inhuman lovers
Yeah, no.

>>53851566
Bloodrager. Big personality, full BAB, some powers that are clearly breaking physics but only to fight bigger and better and of course raging out to fight even harder still.

>>53851603
Yeah well I think you're a rage-filled motherfucker who needs to focus this alcohol-fueled rage on something more productive, like making a fat-chested ladyknight for Wrath of the Righteous.

>>53851493
If you don't want to edit it yourself or image search, you could try the drawthreads.

>>53851563
>loophole
Those guys have literally no reason to police you for doing this, besides maybe Aeons whose reasoning is explicitly stated to be entirely incomprehensible. There's no particular reason efreeti would care about you using Wish on your own, and Inevitables shouldn't have a stake in you using Blood Money unless it's somehow inherently Chaotic. This isn't a loophole or something, it's just application of how certain spells work.

>>53851586
I say "it doesn't matter" in relation to being an NPC or PC. Fuck's sake even if my opinion was literally "it doesn't matter" that's also a fucking opinion. You can actually have an opinion that amounts to "I abstain from choosing one of your sides because it is literally irrelevant to me" you know this right? And in this case that's not even what's being said. Fucking idiotic /pol/fags forgetting that Hitler was LITERALLY THE ONE WHO REFUSED TO TAKE SIDES AND SAID YOU'RE BOTH RETARDED.

>>53851603
>Confucian
What the fuck are you even accusing him of?

>>53851563
What's it matter when the DM is actually okay with it? The DM knew exactly what I was planning to do because I communicated with him and he didn't have a problem with it because I never used it for anything preposterous until the literal final battle, which was no-punches pulled on either side.

>>53851598
As they shouldn't, Simulacrum is a bullshit spell that the DM should put extra limits on if a PC is going to use it. I never used Simulacrum, though. I'm just jumping in to talk about breaking Blood Money with Restoration (and breaking Restoration with Blood Money) because it's fun to give the Cleric a smug look because you, the arcane caster, can cast Restoration better than they can.

By the way, Monstrous Physique could give you as much as a +6 bonus to STR, and it's a size bonus so it will stack with the +4 enhancement bonus from Bull's Strength.

>>53851554
Had a bad day anon?

>>53851658
No good at editing, but yeah, I'll go ahead and look myself then. Figured it was worth a try though; I know in the Exalted general people ask for character art all the time, so I wasn't sure if the same could apply here.

>>53851655
Hey Tuv. Did you sleep well? What's your favorite alignment for Ladyknights? I've got two seeds that I really like, but they're very different.

>>53851609
>AC
That's an NPC
>inhuman lovers
All fall under either PC or NPC
>Everyone
That's not a choice, commie!

Would a poison darter ranger be able to take the extra rogue talent or extra alchemist discovery if they had picked out a talent or discovery through their poison style class feature?

>>53851760
That's not Tuv. Tuv likes THICC chests, not flat.

>>53851824
They said fat! It's Tuv!

And I want to know if he prefers earnest do-gooder ladyknights or jaded killer ladyknights

>>53851835
Oh, I misread. Nevermind, then.
His favourite alignment is LE, btw.

>>53851846
That...doesn't fit either one...

Ugh, this will be harder than I thought. I didn't want to go Smug Bitch AGAIN, but if I have to, I guess I have to.

>>53851611

Thanks anon!

>>53851658
>Those guys have literally no reason to police you for doing this
That's literally why they exist, anon. They are the literal enforces of the rules of "reality" in D&D.

You're a) not using wish on your own, you're making efreeti simulacrums to cast wish for you to gain infinite wishes, and b) violating the Lawful tenets of paying a price for a wish, and c) denying lawful evil forces the opportunity to bargain for the wishes you seek. How in the name of all the dead gods is that not going to attract the attention of the literal police of reality, the enforces of the Laws of the universe, and the lords of the efreet? The only answer you can possibly give is "player fiat, it doesn't because there aren't rules that say anything bad will happen if I abuse a loophole in the way spells work that lets me gain infinite wishes" when Aeons and Inevitables are specifically creatures that close EXACTLY those kinds of loopholes, often at the behest of dieties of magic, who automatically take notice of spells being cast as that is part of theor portfolios.

First line under Aeon:
>Aeons are a race of neutral outsiders who roam the planes maintaining the balance of reality.
Uner Inevitable
>Zelekhut (SR 20): Zelekhuts often answer the call of binders who wish to use them to search out and even execute those who seek to evade justice.

And Efreet lords would find the enslaving of even simulacra efreet a grave injustice - after all, it is a disguise check to hide the fact that it ISN'T an efreet, and gettign all those wishes without bargaining for them? Adding insult to uinjury, and makign enemies out of the entire race?

The only wway infinite wishes works is if there is no game world to play in, anon. Player Fiat is the only way any of the crap /tg/ spouts actually works, because you have to specifically ignore things like the existence of Efreet maliks and Sultans, as well as Aeons.

>>53851860
LN also works.

>>53851871
Ah...What about Neutral or Lawful Good?

>>53851879
/shrug
Any alignment works, I'm just telling you the two alignments 90% of the characters he played as were.

>>53851702
hey, if your GM is okay with it, break the game all you want.

>>53851889
Ugh, this is painful. I *might* be able to tweak my Neutral seed up to Lawful Neutral.

How hardcore and seriously addicted to violence can you be before you're Neutral instead of Lawful Neutral?

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>Mage's Paraphernalia Panoply
>Metamagic Master
>apply metamagic without increasing slot level or spellcasting time
>only limit is how much mental focus you care to spend from THREE DIFFERENT IMPLEMENTS
>wewlad.exe

>>53851870
>That's literally why they exist, anon. They are the literal enforces of the rules of "reality" in D&D.
And? What's being violated, exactly? Nothing, that's right - except what the DM thinks, which is what Aeons are for. Literally look at the descriptions of how aeons choose targets - nobody fucking knows and they never fucking explain, it's a blank cheque to DMs who have lost control of players on powertrips and need to punish them. That's why I excluded Aeons; Inevitables, on the other hand, have no reason to touch me because they're proponents of Law; unless I'm being Chaotic or something, they shouldn't be fighting me.

>efreeti simulacrums
Which is not an Efreeti, so there's no problem, this is out of the jurisdiction of any Efreeti.

>paying the price for a wish
Nowhere is this part of Law because you're not breaking any promise or code. The simulacrum wishes shit for you, there's no issue here.

>these kind of loopholes
It's not a loophole just because it's broken shit. How am I evading justice for using simulacrum I personally created at my own expense?

>>53851968
Any sane GM has some extra planar force kick your teeth in for trying. No, any sane GM never lets you do it. I'm not the anon you're arguing with just dropping into say that your GM is shit, that's the long and short of it.

>>53851998
But I never argued a DM would actually let you do it, I'm arguing that he should've just flat out said "the DM tells you you're paying for the pizzas today, also your wizard gets shit on by Pharasma because his time's up gg no re roll a new guy", because that's what would happen if you tried, instead of pulling all this literally wrong justification out of his ass.

>>53851968
It's a simple case of "blood money+restoration=potential infinite wishes" and that will put any reality warden on alert, anon, because there are inevitably (ha ha) some idiots who think, "well, why not create an army of djinn nobles and efreet to gain infinite wishes with by using blood money+restoration?!"

>Which is not an Efreeti
Care to prove that to the efreet? Remember, they can't tell the difference until you demonstrate that they are not actually efreet, because the simulacrum spell literally makes copies of the beings. Which means you'll have to admit that you were commanding them to grant you wishes of course. I think the Lawful Evil efreet might decide to do something about that - like talking to the inevitables.

>How am I evading justice for using simulacrum I personally created at my own expense?
You're not evading justice - you are potentially damaging reality by potentially gaining infinite wishes, which the Aeons may take under consideration for simply knowing how to do so. They are the caretakers of reality, and if you decide that infinite wishes are part of reality, they may decide to make sure that particular issue ceases to exist.

Again, the only way infinite wishes works is "player fiat" - by RAW Aeons have every reason to nuke you if you create a situation that could destroy the balance of reality, like gaining infinite wishes.

>>53852185
>reality warden
Inevitables are not reality wardens, they're wardens of Law, and you're not being Chaotic or anything. AEONS are reality wardens, and also tools of the DM, which I'm again - not disputing.

>care to prove that to the efreet?
Cast True Seeing on them. Because they're Lawful Evil, they won't lie about this stuff to Inevitables once they're presented with the truth.

>by RAW Aeons have every reason to nuke you if you create a situation that could destroy the balance of reality, like gaining infinite wishes
By RAW Aeons have every reason to nuke you whenever the DM's ass itches because while they obstensibly defend the stability of reality, they're also noted to choose incomprehensible targets and never explain their choices.

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>>53852259
>>53852185
You're both shitters. Kindly kill yourselves.

>>53851860
Smug bitches come in all shapes and sizes, what kind of jaded asshole did you have in mind for WotR and what are you currently playing?

>>53852259
But they are till evil, and selfish. You're getting wishes without paying for them from home-made efreeti, and that could make an argument that the inevitables will listen to. They might make you work out a deal with the efreeti, but it would definitely be something that efreet would work agaisnt you for.

Personally, your GM is a bro, and I applaude you for the forbearance to use Blood money+Restopration in a responsible manner. Ideologically, I enjoy pointing out the flaw in the Casters Are Infinitely Powerful shit that /tg/ harps on constantly. They're really only infinitely powerful by player fiat, not by RAW.

>>53852306
I didn't want a smug bitch this time! I wanted a gal with a real violence fetish, you know? Someone that treads that borderline, enjoys fighting and killing demons and cultists just a little too much. Someone filled with hatred and a lust for violence without any of the moral conviction or altruism that marks the true crusader.
I wanted her to tread the line heading towards Chaos and Evil in that little Neutral square.

Golden Chalice makes its pick tomorrow!

Any guesses who the five "lucky" ones are?

>>53852450
You! You're going to make it!

>>53852419
Remember: the Tao does not forbit evil. It only asks that you face up to the results with an accepting and honest heart and that you allow the world to deal with you as you have dealt with it. Evil and good are meaningless to the Tao - so long as you follow the Way, the Way will support you. And if your Way seems evil and dangerous, well, that is because the Way does not care about niceties, only that you do not go against it.

>>53852320
>that could make an argument
Listen to yourself.
>someone is outcompeting us using his own power and wit! Proponents of law and fairness, please, you simply MUST stop him from doing this, force him to come back to us instead of doing this on his own, after all we Efreeti have a copyright on the Wish spell!

>personally, your GM is a bro
I'm not even the one who did that. I'm not dumb enough to try any of this, either. I'm just pointing out that [aeons aside], there's really no actual justification for anyone to fuck with a guy making infinite simulacra, beyond the general "dude someone is getting REALLY strong fast. Charon-sama shouldn't we take him out before he starts buffing the Paladin to the point he's become a threat to your Deathliness?"

>by player fiat
But that's wrong, because it's by DM fiat and the axe goes both ways. By RAW they unironically are this powerful - Aeons, however, exist as a generalised "Rule 0 exists. Theoretically you could farm Wishes forever. Theoretically, the DM could tell you you're not invited back for the next campaign, so don't be a shitter and ruin it for everyone."

>>53852419
Then make a do-gooder that off at committing violence - a proper monster - but she hides her lust with religion and maybe self-mutilation which is itself a sick sort of pleasure.

>>53852472
But isn't that a really good example of a True Neutral school of philosophy? With all the wuwei and such?

Does Enlarge Person + Powerful Build allow you to wield Huge weapons?

>>53852501
I don't fucking see what use of infinite wishes isn't either broken or makes you look like a cock sucker. Yeah I would just ban it and any GM who isn't guzzling player cum would as well.

>>53852456
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

But I didn't apply!

Is LoBaF unironically the most on point game that's come out of /pgg/?

>>53852517
Yes and no.

Theoretically the Tao is neutral, but people (and things) are not. so, following the Way means adjusting to whatever is happenign around you to an extent. Abiding bu the rules of others and copnforming to the rules around you is following the way, but you could also follow the way by accepting that these rules and strictures are uneccessarily cruel or constraining, and that you need to worlk agaisnt or around them to deal with the truth of things. The key point is that to follow Tao, you must also accept responsibility for your choices and the Way you pursue, especially if it creates conflict. If your Way is true, Tao will support you. If it is not, it will crush you like the insignificant speck of life that you are, because the Tao cannot be fooled, combated, tricked, coerced, or controlled. Being true to yourself is critical to the Tao, and if you are a murderous, rage driven monster that seeks to slaughter the demons, then by all means, you should be that thing.

>>53852501
And why would an Efreet not make that argument? They're EFREET. If they can come up with an excuse to screw over someone who is using their power - illusions of their power, but their power nonetheless - why would they not?

>>53852507
Interesting, if a bit cliche (But I like those)

>>53852600
This is tempting me. Also, are you self-taught or did you have proper teachers, Anon?

>>53852628
Because simulacrum makes them unerringly loyal to you

>>53852628
Because do you think it'd fly with Inevitables? Inevitables are proponents of Law, they have no interest in trying to settle what amounts to a patent spat - especially because there's no copyright holder for the Wish spell.

>>53852554

Not everyone "applies" to be a hero, anon! Some people are just born that way!

>>53848432
Whoops, because I'm bad at math evidently. Thanks for pointing it out.

Can anyone judge these introductions (and names) for the presented CRs, in terms of impact (i.e. do they sound about as threatening as their CRs mean they are in combat); it's a homebrew of PF / 3.5e, but not hugely significant ones, and the general powerlevel should be around the same. The first in each set is what happens if it spots you first, the second is what happens if you just observe it from afar.
>Weeping Skeleton (CR 11) - This skeletal figure bleeds from its eye sockets, and its skeletal grin seems more like a clenched, forced smile. As it turns towards you, breaking into a mad dash, you hear a wailing sob that seems to echo, not from the undead horror, but from deep within yourself.
>Weeping Skeleton (CR 11) - What appears to be a normal, weak skeleton reveals itself to be something more. As it passes, you catch a glimpse of the dried blood that lines its cheekbones like tears from a past life, and feel a supreme chill - originating not from fear, nor from pity, but from an instinctual shunning of eternity.
>Storm Lord (CR 13) - A nobleman appears before you - or rather, the spectral upper body of one does. Below his well-maintained shirt and belt, his legs quickly disintegrate into a howling malestrom of of wind and water. He examines his shirt and nails, snapping his fingers to summon his retainers before speaking.
>Storm Lord (CR 13) - A ghostly body, dressed like a wealthy duke, or perhaps a petty king, floats across the wasteland on a throne of thundering fury. Lesser ghosts clad in garments made of lesser clouds than the ones he rides bow before him. As you watch, he whispers something to a champion near him, who bows deeply and disappears.

>>53852600
Close enough. Just a little correction - the laws of men shouldn't even merit mention. Following the Tao is simply moving as you will and as the world will because there shouldn't be a difference between the two when you follow the Tao; the world of men is entirely irrelevant.

>>53852803
Aaand one of the possible final bosses...
>The Pale Princess (U, CR 22) - A strange, indescribeable uneasiness grips you as you walk through the marsh. As you look instinctively glance behind you, expecting to see nothing but the trees, you are startled come face-to-face a young woman made of pure, incandescent, flaming pale blue radiance staring at you. The glow, like no other you have ever seen, seems to reject and be rejected by the world itself, and the air between your noses jitters as if the heatless flames were burning apart the space they occupied. An almost imperceptible sneer creeps across her face as she speaks in a voice like a thousand thunders - "Is there a reason you come seeking me?"
>The Pale Princess (U, CR 22) - In a flash of iron-blue light, a woman wreathed in - or made of - pale blue fire materializes in your field of vision. The sight of her sends you into an indescribeable uneasiness, as if the mind were rejecting what the eyes saw. You feel her shift attention to you. In an instant, she is before you, although you did not see her move. Her face twists in annoyance as she speaks in a voice like a million whispers over the course of a thousand years: "The world itself chose to forget me. Why do you remember?"

I'm going to be reading these aloud, if it matters at all, so I would prefer them to not be much longer than this. Mind I'm just looking for general 'atmosphere' and 'threat level' - specific pointers are appreciated but I'm mainly looking for problems conveying feeling. Thanks in advance!

Dragonslayer campaign WHEN?
Druma campaign WHEN?
Galt campaign WHEN?
Linnorm Kings campaign WHEN?

>>53852580
Of the meme games at least. I wonder how groups like HR-B and Lazy Throne do.
I wonder how much of LoBaF efficiency is just carried by DHB.

>>53852917
Does this mean Tuvok's WotR will be a well-oiled machine if DHB gets in?

>>53851947
>Occultists_no_sense_of_right_or_wrong.png

>>53852648
Self taught, by and large, but the Tao Te Ching and Everyday Tao are pretty good instruction manuals.

>>53852667
It's not the ones you make that you have to worry about anon.

>>53852668
Well, if it won't fly with inevitables, it might fly with something even worse...devils. "Hey, this mortal is getting all his wishes granted by things he makes, at no cost to himself...\too bad none of you will be getting his soul."

That would get some attention.

>>53852648
You can't be taught Tao. It's one of the philosophies that you need to personally comprehend, the vagueness of its advice should tell you that much. It's not Confucianism, which was never purely a philosophy anyway and was always socioethical in nature. Taoism is personal, and even if it gives guidelines, there's really not much more a teacher can teach you beyond reiterating those.

>>53852976
Neat. I studied it in school some, and I've read a little bit here and there.

>>53852668
Inevitables also enforce natural (and unnatural) law, anon. Violation of certain states of existence are also their pervue, such as avoiding death and making bargains. The fact that you are gaining wishes from efreet , however illusory they might be, that you have not bargained with WOULD be an issue that they would see as a violation of law: you bargain with an efreet, you get a wish. That's the way the deal works. No bargaining, no wish.

I'd say it would at least earn a hearing.

>>53852803
>>53853020

Well, remember I'm modifying it as an excuse for an in game activity, rather than espousing the actual philosophy itself.

>>53853073
>your sitting in your tower, smoking a pipe and recoverign from your last series of wishmaking efforts
>a knock on the door
>a machinelike being hands you a letter
>You've been served.
>have to make a court appearance in Nirvana
>nothing but robes to wear
>the trials of being a wizard

>>53853097
Tao is really more or less the domain of both Monks and things like Elementals played straight. The thing about Tao is that reaching Tao isn't so much reaching a state of peace with the world as reachig a state of peace with reality, whereupon you accept reality and thereby reality can accept you. On the note of good and evil, yes, the word used is "neutral" but what is meant is more "neutral" in the way a flood that kills your family is neutral and not evil, and a sudden rain that saves your crop is not good, because it's all part of a natural cycle you just happened to be caught in. Someone who follows Tao is not good or evil, because he simply is.

How do you feel about the latest Ensoulment app?

>>53853157
Didn't read. I can't give enough of a shit to read through over 50 massive applications, and I'm even one of them.

>>53853176
Which one, anon?

So the nearest place doing Free RPG Day is cities away from me (the local gaming scene here sucks ass). How long does it usually take for people to get the stuff up online? I really want to take a look at First Contact, but I don't want to wait for July when Paizo's gonna put it up.

>>53852580
That depends, what do you mean by "on point"? Consistent sessions? Swift progression through the plot? Detailed records, bookkeeping, and greentexts? A lot of effort put in from the DM?

>>53853189
You will never make me tell you.

>>53853204
Good. I feel the same way about my own app.

>>53852853
When you run them

>>53853073
Wishbinding is literally a thing in Golarion, bruh.

The vizier of the Court of Fire is famed for having one of the largest wishbinding circles in the planes.

>>53853157
It's a no philosophy rando but mostly "flexible for scheduling during the summer" seems like a massive red flag.

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I want to make the prehensile tail of a tiefling more creepy than usual. Any ideas? Is a mouth there too much? What kind of fiends have monstrous tails?

>>53853351
TAILS ARE NOT FOR LEWDS
Erodaemons have tails with snake heads on them.

>>53853369
I can't look at somebody with a snake for a tail and take them seriously, because I always imagine them having conversations with it.

>>53853281
And he's supposed to take some upstart mortal horning in on his work sitting down? Really?

>>53853443
>Shifting the goalposts.

Would they actually do starfinder stuff for free rpg day? Because I kinda doubt it, with how tight-lipped they've been

>>53852853
>Wanting anything to do with galt

>>53853483
Yeah, they are. They are also releasing it as a PDF in July

>>53853351
I theorized an Astral Daemon influencing a bloodline. The \resulting daemonic tiefling had transparent skin over their hands and feet and tail as well as their lower jaw and throat, darkening to translucence up the arms and legs to opaque at the elbow/knees, and translucent flesh that moved down towards finger and toetips and throat, but not their tail, which would appear as glistening bones (the glistening bring the transparent flesh and muscles and veins and such).

why?

Because the idea of a creepy girl like that makign friends with a non-judgemental half-elf while being a slave in Cheliax who was forced to ride a nightmare-bred centaur girl agaisnt the half-elf's azata blooded centaur girl was kinky interesting.

>>53853474
Not shifting any goalpost at all - the idea of wish-crafting outsiders taking offense at a mortal wizard getting infinite wishes was the entire point.

>>53853281 is the one who shifted the goalposts.
.

>>53853423
.......and why is that a problem?

>>53853483
Sappy's girl for WotR is involved with Galt!

>>53853534
Honestly you should've pulled the Mephistopheles card from the start. Mephi is a CR 30 who would be SUPREMELY butthurt if a mortal found a way to just hand out wishes willy-nilly.

>>53853645
Galt is shit! SHIT! The entire country should be burned down! It's worse than the worldwound!

>>53853694
He's CR35 since he is mythic 10.

So what would you do if you really liked your character concept, but didn't care for the class mechanics at all?

I'm playing an unchained summoner in an Ironfang Invasion campaign. I thought playing one would be neat, but keeping track of two characters is way more of a pain than I thought it would be. Especially when it comes time to level up.

I do like some of the actual roleplay moments this character has had with other PCs and NPCs though.

New thread

>>53853774
>>53853774
>>53853774
>>53853774

Real new thread:
>>53853908
>>53853908
>>53853908
>>53853908
>>53853908

>>53853761
Ask your DM if he'll let you change or retrain to Synthesist so you can be just one character. You can have some strange magical artifact or wild magic event cause it, still have both characters sharing the same brain space/thinking room but only have one body.

>>53849629
How does one play a TN Assassin, then?

>>53853941
Report and ignore.

>>53851419
I knew who it was...