How would the Republic from Star Wars turn out if the Jedi Succeeding

>>53832181
The Jedi weren't seizing control, they were removing Palpatine

Without Palpatine influence, what remained of the separatists would have fallen apart, and the more corrupt elements of the Senate would have had no leader to rally behind.

It could have gotten messy but until Palpatine claimed otherwise, the Jedi were above reproach

>>53832181
When you think about it, killing Palpatine would have REALLY shifted the balance in the favor of the Jedi.
There was a ridiculous number of moving parts during the Clone Wars and it only lasted as long as they did because the guy in charge on their side was literally feeding information to the other side on a regular enough basis that the War kept dragging on with more and more casualties to their troops, requiring more and more effort to compensate.

If Sidious dies then the Seperatists (or at least the parts actually driving the war itself forward rather then the much more reasonable planets who were dissatisfied with the Republic) are effectively rudderless and leaning towards peace since even Nute Gunray was tired of all the bullshit that came with his dead.
The Senate is still corrupt, but the key figure of it's corruption and the one paying most of the bribes and with the most skill at exploiting weaknesses is dead. Hell, if they ONLY killed him and then just had him disappear and not even publicly admit that they did it a TON of their problems suddenly would become easier to deal with.

The only weakness in Sidious' plan was that it required him to work at all, so if Windu had managed to waste him the whole thing would fall apart, especially since the only other guy who knew the details he'd had Anakin kill a few days ago.

>>53832303
I don't think Sidious cared about his plan surviving him. He was selfish, not like he wanted change for it's own sake.

>>53832575
I agree completely; Sith kind of are inherently self-absorbed dickheads. Their whole philosophy and even their code thing is based on it.

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>>53832181
Even without Palptine the CIS would have won the war through sheer numbers in a war of attrition.

>>53832303
The Seperatists were completely BTFOing the Republic though. Sure they had Palpatine helping them but they were also legitimately winning a war of attrition. A single clone costs the same amount as a large squad of battle droids plus years of growth and training. The GAR couldn't keep up. Near the end of the war Palpatine was actually a huge hindrance to the CIS. He got Grievous and later the rest of the Seperatist leadership killed by leaking their locations. If Mace had successfully murdered the Chancellor the Jedi would still have lost the war.

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>filthy alien scum thinking their clockwork clankers are in any way equal to an enemy that can think
>especially with Grievous dead

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>>53832926
History has shown time and time again that attrition and higher troop numbers almost always beats out superior training and equipment in the end. There are exceptions, of course, but the general trend of history is that numbers win barring a HUGE gap in technology level like swords vs firearms.

>>53833055
Not to mention that droidekas, for example, are listed as 1/8 the price of a regular clone trooper and easily superior to one.

>>53832734
The Separatists would win if two conditions remain true:
- They manage to remain unified.
- They want to keep fighting.

More likely is that they decide to negotiate an end to the war.

>>53833055
By the end of the war most veteran clones knew how to kill many times their number in droids swiftly and efficiently (shooting the B1s' limb joints, ion weapons etc). Against anything other than a droideka (which still have their weaknesses, mind you) I'd give it to an experienced clone squad any day.

>>53832575
Yeah, that's also supposed to be the reason the Empire pretty much fell apart the moment he died. He never gave a fuck about what would happen after his death, so he never set up a clear procedure for succeeding him (and in fact did pretty much the opposite by constantly playing his underlings against each other). So when he dies, every asshole with a star destroyer declares himself the new emperor and they all duke it out until the whole Empire implodes. Didn't help that most of the good candidates to replace him (like Vader and the grand admiral of the imperial navy) also died during the battle of Endor.

>>53833088
Luckily there are many times the number of droids as their are clone troopers, and the droids never fatigue, never get tired, never have their performance slip. In a war of attrition the clones can't win.

Like I said, in the grand scheme of history, numbers almost always win over superior training, barring a complete difference in technological tiers.

>>53833088
I just YouTubed the battle on Utapau in EpIII and when the clones engage a group of B1s and a couple crab droids. They lose a dozen troopers in the two seconds of fighting we are show before the camera cuts away. That was near the end of the war. The GAR ended up winning that battle because they ambushed a small force trying to lay low but it still looks like the clones took high casualties. They were basically trading 1 for 1.

>>53833184
>never have their performance slip
Would anyone notice, since the B1s' circuitry and programming were essentially made by the lowest bidder?

>>53833196
This. Most of the time we see droids being wrecked in large numbers, it's Jedi who are doing it, not the clone troopers. Unfortunately there aren't enough Jedi to turn the tide of a war unless they resort to assassination tactics and go after CIS leadership figures... and even then it's hard for the CIS to fuck it up since the only stratedgy they need is ZOMG ZERG RUSH. It's not like they're relying on complex political plays or brilliant generals to win.

>>53833218
Don't forget that the CIS has those anti-biological bombs. I can imagine what carnage that does in the battlefield

>>53833218
>unless they resort to assassination tactics and go after CIS leadership figure
They were trying to do that the whole war. Republic Intelligence didn't do shit. They only succeeded because the commander of the CIS literally handed them the information.

>>53832181
Civil War would happen.

A lot of nations who supported Jedi before gonna withdraw. Those who already were dissatisfied will try to form a new block. Separatists will continue to fuck over everything. Hutts will probably also try to throw their support behind nations closer to Huttspace to help them create a new galactic federation or something with more lax laws.

So at least a five way free for all.

>>53833205
Drones are also easier to repair. If you a clone is killed you need to replace him outright. If a drone is shot in the chest you need only replace the parts that were damaged.

>>53833274
I think it is cheaper to just build a new battledroid than to just repair one.

>>53833255
This and the fact that Jedi themselves aren't really "assassins". Like, they targetd CIS leadership, but stealth and cold-blooded killings aren't the Jedi way. They have to be all noble and "proper" about it, giving their enemies multiple chances to surrender or trying to capture them to face court, compromising the success of the entire mission by trying to achieve these sorts of outcomes as opposed to just going for the clean kill.

>>53833291
No they don't.

>>53833286
Maybe. But droids still take their own dead after battle which allows them to save on materials.

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>>53832181
>lightside of the force is stronger than the dark.
>Three of those jedi are killed within a minute.
>Never mind soon after the Sith go on and holocaust the jedi

Who started the lightside is stronger than the Darkside trend?

>>53833291
Did Obiwan ever ask for Grievous's surrender? I think he just iced the guy. That was a pretty shitty assassination attempt though. If Grievous hadn't called off his droids Kenobi would have been shot to pieces.

>>53833325
>Who started the lightside is stronger than the Darkside trend?
Literally Jedi propaganda. We only hear it from them.

>>53833303
Name one CIS leader the Jedi killed without making it into a huge sloppy action sequence. The Jedi are not assassins. Even when they're trying to be, they don't have the skills to pull it off.

>>53833325
Yoda and word-of-god from George Lucas states that the Light Side is stronger than the Dark Side. In the novelizations of the first movies, it was also stated that the Light Side is the "natural" state of the Force and that the Dark Side is a corruption. Luke literally describes the force as "crying in pain" when dark side users twist it to create force lightning. To "return balance to force" means to eliminate the Dark Side completely, not to achieve balance between the two.

That being said, the Jedi Code itself is corrupted. The Jedi use the Light Side, but the way in which they use it leads to them acting in a very arrogant and pretentious way that's keeping them from a deeper TRUE understanding of the Light Side.

>>53833325
>>53833354
It has to be pointed out though that the whole Force duality thing isn't some sort of objective take on it but one of many philosophies, at least according to some latter materials, some canonized.

>>53833350
It's not even propaganda so much as the Jedi legitimately believing this with no proof, because they're scared of the alternative. Their very reaction the dark side existing is not to try to understand it or see if it can be used constructively or responsibily, but to go "NOPE! IT'S BAD AND WRONG AND DON'T USE IT BECAUSE OUR WAY IS BETTER!"

Not to bring /pol/ into this, but in a way it's almost very reminiscent to certain "abstinence only" stances on sex. Yes, sex is a dangerous thing tied in with all sorts of powerful emotions, but trying to deny it's existence completely only makes it's temptation that much stronger. A running theme in Star Wars itself, in favor of compromise or moderation, is how often love ends up saving people, instead of damning them, despite love being a powerful emotion the likes of which Jedi are taught needs to be denied or feared, rather than dealt with in a healthy way. All the repression is why Luke's love for Padme stewed into fear and further stewed into hate and anger. Because nowhere along the way was Luke taught to deal with it or cope in a healthy way.

>>53833425
>Replace Luke with Annakin, holy fuck that typo.

>>53833425
>It's not even propaganda so much as the Jedi legitimately believing this with no proof, because they're scared of the alternative. Their very reaction the dark side existing is not to try to understand it or see if it can be used constructively or responsibily

Depends what materials you consider canon "enough" there were groups and philosophies in some of the frenchis emedia which considered this, including so-called Grey Jedi

>>53833077
With the republic senate in chaos after ol sheev's ousting the separatists would still have had a victory condition met, independence, since the Senate, not the Republic as a whole, would not have lost the will to fight beyond that point.

>>53833333
>Did Obiwan ever ask for Grievous's surrender?
No, he said "Hello there."

>>53832181
I don't think the Jedi really had much intrest in running the government, but they might have had the problems real world militaries have had after deposing corrupt governments in that when the people who end up in charge after the elections start to fuck up they feel the need to step in again. No civil war, but their would be several decades of off and on military control untill they find a vaguely functional government. Much like Egypt.

>>53833325
>>53833350
Yoda tells Luke that the Darkside is not more powerful, he doesn't say it's less either. I imagine the force user has the same power if they are Darkside or not, but may realize their ultimate power in a faster and more crude manner with the dark side.

>>53833055
this is mentioned in an episode of rebels
kalani the tactical droid says that the endless droids had a "90% chance of victory" and was confused by the republic victory

it was slightly implied that the droid could have been right, since rex only beat kalani in the present because their machinery was faulty

>>53834267
He calculated the odds at 76.4/23.6 in favour of the Seperatists. It's just one independent droid's calculations though.

>Turns out the Republic has no laws against a Sith being Chancellor.

>killing the leader of your nation because he belongs to a different religion from you.

>>53834449
Why would they? The average Republic citizen is unlikely to even know the difference between a Sith and a Jedi... or anything about them except that they both use laser-swords.

Hell, even when the Empire took over, some of their top officers openly mocked Vader's mentions of the force as a dead religion, like it was some fanciful superstition. (The changed when they ended up on the oxygen-deprived end of a force-choke, but that's not the point since that will never happen for 99.9% of the people living in the galaxy, many of whom will probably go their whole lives without ever seeing either a jedi or sith in person.)

>>53833333
>quints
>witnessed

if you read..i think it's the quote "official novel" Mace outright tells obi that he is the Only Man Who Can Kill Grevious. Thanks entirely to obi's supposed mastery of the basic defensive lightsaber form. Grevious could ramp up to speeds a jedi with a less complete defence simply couldn't keep up with- at the cost of any real technique, he was simply wailing on people at that point.

so if you believe one particular book, you could argue that getting shot apart was unlikely

>>53834535
>killing the leader of your nation because he secretly orchestrated a war against your country
Seems fair desu.

>>53834535
But they wanted to arrest Thessenate, not kill him. Also the official reason for that was his treason not him being a heretic.

>>53834566
Being really good at lightsaber defense can't save someone from being shot from 360 degrees simultaneously. There were also moments in the duel where his lightsaber was bound and he was defenseless against other attacks.

What I want to know is how did the clones go from effective badass troopers to the inaccurate shitty stormtroopers from the original trilogy?

>>53834693
Stormtroopers aren't clones.

Why didn't Jedi just force crush Grievous?

>>53834704
This
Also plot armor

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>>53834566
>>53834622
>Movie jedi are useless unless they're fighting robots with the programming of Chuck E. Cheese animatronics.
>Meanwhile the guy who could pull battle cruisers out of the sky with his rage may be cannon due to conflicting statements from the company who now owns the franchise.

11/10, Disney. God-tier trolling.

>>53834712
Jedi in the movies don't really use the force for anything except enhancing their own physical abilities... and force push. Grievous's body was designed to take impacts from force pushes, although the effectiveness of this seems to vary depending on media. Sometimes his feet can lock him down to the ground and literally let him tank the hit, other times he gets ragdoll'd.

Greivous's fighting style was stated to be so aggressive and psychologically detrimental to his opponents that many Jedi literally could not find the time or calmness of mind to use force powers while fighting him.

>>53834712
Mace Windu did. That's why coughs.

>>53834739
Starkiller (Galen Marek) isn't canon, not even remotely. I have no idea where you're pulling that idea that he may be canon from.

Starkiller Base is just a reference to Annikin Starkiller, one of the characters from an earlier draft of The Star Wars.

>>53832181
Is that treason, then?

>>53834940
He's probably referring to the Rebel Insignia, which Starkiller is said to be the source of or had a hand in making. And the fact that the insignia itself was stated to be canon by Disney.

However, it is based off a Corosian Phoenix, a bird in the star wars galaxy, meaning anyone could have come up with it, due to having such a mundane origin.

>>53834739
I'd rather Edgeslayer not be canon. Dragging a star destroyer out of high orbit was nothing wort of obscene. The only condition I'd accept personally is if he used full-blown sith magic BS

>>53834773
His style is heavily influenced by the man who was highly proficient in a form indented to fight other lightsaber users. Plus he was unconventional as all fuck and yeah, built to intimidate. Even a jedi's going to have a hard time fighting off 4 blades at once and- if you want to believe the old cartoon- a cyborg nigger who can and will flip all over the place with his hand-feet

>>53834622
Fair enough.

>>53833069
Droidekas are that cheap? How the CIS lose again?

>>53835033
https://youtu.be/HHuqKMHGpHM

>>53835033
Did you not read the thread or watch the movies? Their leader betrayed them.

>>53835033
An ion grenade is cheaper still, and just being less expensive then several years of growing and indoctrination does not make one affordable. Droidekas where resistant to blaster fire and to a very limited extent, lightsabers. Their shielding was too difficult to simply burn through and their rate of fire could eventually wear down jedi.

Ask yourself why roger-roger models and their burly cousins where the most common models even when droidekas where superiour

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All the republic needed as a sniper with an ion rifle standing by to shoot General Wheezous in the back when distracted by FOOLISH JEDI!

>>53835002
Exactly, there's nothing remotely inferred about the Marek family, let alone Starkiller himself, in canon.

>>53835033
I'ts more that the clones are that ridiculously expensive. The very first episode of TCW showed that the droids outnumbered the clones 100:1.

And also that Palpatine, as the mastermind of the war and the leader of both sides, determined the CIS would lose before the war even began.

>>53835107
Grenades in Star Wars aren't that effective, and ion grenades weren't canonical (excluding Legends material, but even then they basically only appeared in games with one mention from a novel) until Star Wars Battlefront (2015). The Onderon arc in TCW showed that the easiest way to drop droidekas was to slow-roll a grenade so it rolled through their shields.

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>>53835020
He wasn't even the first Starkiller in a video game.

>>53833257
And then there's the possiblity that Sheev may have a dead man's switch that causes the clones to execute Orders 66, 72 kill senators and 95Kill planetary leaders. And the CIS droids to do the same on their end
It seems like a Sheev thing to do..

>>53835850
I don't know where you're getting those contingency orders, because they aren't among the ones that were described - the only ones we know about in Legends are 4, 5, 37, 65, and 66.

Hell, in canon, we don't even know if the Contingency orders are even a thing, since Order 66 was a secret.

>>53835850
In a NJO novel Luke and Mara Jade discovered Palpatine planned to turn off the air filtration for all of Coruscant in the event of a siege. That man has/had no morals holding him back.

>>53832701
Likely but the Clone Wars tv show had revealed a decent number of separatists wanted a peace deal, and Count Dooku managed to stop the process (forgot how) but that showed that the CIS was becoming tired of war.

>>53833274
Actually, the Medstar books (lol Legends now though) note that fixing clones is really easy, because they're all the same "plumbing" on the inside and rapid-cloned spare organs aren't hard to get a hold of. So fixing a clone up and sending him back is what they do if they can, it's much faster than getting a new one.

>>53833354
Yoda never says the light is stronger. Just that the dark side isn't stronger than the light. Subtle difference.

>>53837004
>Count Dooku managed to stop the process (forgot how)
He had the ones championing peace murdered.

>>53832181
The Head of State is not be above the law. Palpatine committed treason to grab power. The Jedi are trusted to maintain order an justice in the Republic. They had a firsthand account of his crimes, so it was appropriate to arrest him pending charges. I am sure that had they been able to carry out a thorough and unimpeded investigation, they would have proven his obvious villainy beyond doubt.

>>53834578

They didn't actually know he did that though

>>53837821
>they know the Sith backed the Trade Federation's seizure of Naboo
>the rule of two is well known
>a Sith apprentice was killed by Obi-Wan
>therefore if Palpatine is a Sith he must be the master
>therefore Palpatine is guilty of treason

>>53837821
They actually did. They knew from before the war started (AotC) that the Republic was under the control of a Sith Lord.

They then found out later in the war that the OTHER Sith Lord was Dooku (TCW Season 6, "The Lost One"). Meaning that they know at this point that the Sith control both sides of the war.

Then Anakin is told by Palpatine that he's a Sith, and Anakin then reports to the Jedi that Palpatine is the other Sith they've been looking for.

>>53833354
>word-of-god from George Lucas
George Lucas barely made Star Wars. His word means as much as anyone else's. He directed the prequels and episode 4 - that's it.

Fuck him and his bullshit view of the Force in Balance.

>>53837927
He may not have directed 5/6, but he was definitely heavily involved in story direction and production.

And Star Wars was his baby. The others were allowed to play in the playground that he created, but Star Wars was and is George Lucas' creation - the idea that his words don't carry any more weight than anyone else's when it comes to Star Wars - specifically, the Star Wars material that he was involved in - is fucking laughable and I'm betting you're from /tv/.

>>53837971
>I'm betting you're from /tv/
What the fuck does that mean? Do you think he was on /tv/ and then somebody linked this Star Wars thread?

>>53838068
The way that he's all "hurr durr George Lucas sucks and his word means nothing." That's a /tv/ism if I've ever seen one.

>>53838097
So you're saying that in addition to /tg/ he also likely browses /tv/? How would that make him
>from /tv/
?

>>53833055
>History has shown time and time again that attrition and higher troop numbers almost always beats out superior training and equipment in the end.
When has "history shown this"?

>>53838148
Not to mention that to know what a "/tv/ism" even is, HE'D have to have been to /tv/ also, thus making him from /tv/ as well.

>>53838182
ww2, ww1

>>53838148
The way he immediately came in and shat on George with zero responses to the rest of the thread.

>>53838184
I'll admit I've browsed a bit in the past, enough to notice it's pretty much /b/ but with less porn.

>>53838198
It's an anonymous board, he could have been here from the start and you wouldn't know.

>>53838198
>The way he immediately came in and shat on George with zero responses to the rest of the thread.
George is a talentless hack. I didn't need to visit /tv/ (I don't) to form that opinion.

>>53838193
But the losing powers in both World wars had generally inferior training and technology.

>>53838291
Tell that to the german's incredible k/d ratios. Especially in tanks.

>>53838334
>muh k/d
War isn't like call of duty. And of course the German K/D ratio in WW1 was nothing special. But assuming you're only talking about WW2, those "K/D" ratios leave out the enormous numbers of losses the Germans sustained in 1944-45 (11 million captured!) We will of course be ignoring their considerably disparity of losses in the air, even though the jet fighter was one of their few true technological advantages. We will ignore their horse drawn logistics, in contrast to the far more mechanized rear that the Western allies had. We will completely ignore the effect of surprise and that first big burst of casualties in Barbarossa, or the wholesale murder of PoWs that the Germans indulged in.

They got that "K/d" ratio, not by better tech or training, but by surprise and brutality.

>>53838435
>they didn't have advanced technology at all!
>Now, let's go back to our battle plan that requires four of our tanks, minimum, to take out a single one of theirs, with 3/4 losses

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>>53838475
>>they didn't have advanced technology at all!
They had rockets, which were pretty useless, and jets, which managed a roughly 1:3 in that "all important" K/D ratio that you keep harping upon.

Meanwhile, they were behind in things like radar, communications, halftracks, naval engines, artillery, and yes, tanks for most of the war.

>Now, let's go back to our battle plan that requires four of our tanks, minimum, to take out a single one of theirs, with 3/4 losses
What the FUCK are you talking about? Oh, is this a "shermans are useless" meme? Pic related is from this book.

https://www.amazon.com/Data-World-War-Tank-Engagements/dp/1470079062 Please note how the Shermans are killing about 3.6 panthers to every Sherman lost to one. You know what the big killers of allied tanks were? It wasn't German tanks. It was good old fashioned towed ATGs, and tank mines. Such advanced technology.

>>53834535
If trump came out as a member of isis you think he would have much legetemazy as president?

>>53838545
>rockets
>useless
Didn't they cause an incredible period of fear and inability to counterattack in any meaningful way for the british?
Also, it's kind of hilarious you call jets anything but more advanced, given they are literally all we do nowadays.

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>>53838193
Superior Russian numbers in WW1 got fucking rekt so bad their country collapsed and overthrew their leader. In WW2 the average Russian performance suffered more from shitty tactical command structure than from the quality of their equipment or soldiers, meanwhile German equipment was nowhere near as amazing people people make it out to be, and on top of that they struggled with terrible production choices and logistics choices, the German army for instance having too great a say in the specs of produced tanks, meaning that on average every sixth Tiger tank was different from the last one, thus burdening production needlessly. The Germans had access to a lot more steel than the Soviets, but failed to keep up production due to an ineffective production line, rather than their actual choice of tanks. On top of this, Germans had a habbit of outfitting newly rasied units and sending them off to war before replacing losses within veteran units, so veteran tank regiments sometimes had to share 3-5 tanks in total, while a completely green regient rolled out and quickly lost 20 or their 35 brand new tanks on their first engagement. American and Russian production on the otherhand was governed by number crunchers who actually understood basic concepts behind large scale production and the scale of the conflict they had to win.

The reason the Germans did as well as they did was sick ass tactical command structure and rather than nazi science and Krupp stahl, their technological superiority is a myth, and eventually everyone else caught up to their tactics. It was more quantity vs less quantity rather than quantity vs quality.

Also, in Israel vs fucking everyone around them, superior numbers got fucking blasted on several occasions, same thing during Desert Storm.

>>53838554
Fuck off. That's just going to trigger political shitposting and you damn well know it.

>>53838607
>Also, in Israel vs fucking everyone around them, superior numbers got fucking blasted on several occasions, same thing during Desert Storm.
That's more a case of Arabs not being able to into conventional modern warfare.

>>53838607
>trying to claim the quagmires of the middle east as anything but a loss
I mean, if you are trying to claim russia lost despite being on the winning side, you sort of also have to claim these as a loss too.

>>53838590
>Didn't they cause an incredible period of fear and inability to counterattack in any meaningful way for the british?
The V2 rocket was fairly useless. It was expensive and inaccurate, and it would've been better to spend those resources on actual planes.

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>>53838590
>Didn't they cause an incredible period of fear and inability to counterattack in any meaningful way for the british?
And what did that fear get them? It didn't slow down the allied advance, it didn't stop them from pulverizing German factories and cities with their own, actually effective, radar guided 4 engined bombers (something the Germans never figured out; by the way, that was a pretty meaningful counterattack in the strategic bombing sense), and caused far less damage than the good old fashioned blitz of 1940?

>Also, it's kind of hilarious you call jets anything but more advanced, given they are literally all we do nowadays.
I'm not saying they weren't advanced. I'm saying that for all their "advanced"-ness, they were actually pretty useless. The Germans got enormously more out of the FW-190 than they did with things like the Me-262 or the TA-152, in large part because that wasn't a prototype that was falling apart at the seams being rushed into battle when they didn't have training facilities set up to teach pilots how to use their new super-fast jet and lacked fuel to get the training flights going.

Meanwhile, the things that the Allies were more advanced in generally get overlooked. The Jeep isn't sexy compared to a fighter jet, but actually making sure munitions and food and fuel get from the railhead to wherever your troops are is damn important. Making sure you can actually build a strategic bomber that won't randomly catch on fire and can deliver the sort of tonnage you need to smash up cities is way better than rockets. And do we even need to go into the atomic bomb program? Yes, the Germans had some technological tricks up their sleeves, but to say they were categorically more advanced than the Allies is stupid.

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>>53832575
>>53832606
>>53833111
you know, when put this way, the idea of Sidious' death at the Battle of Endor basically ending the Empire really does make a bit more sense than the Empire continuing to linger on as a legitimate force.

>>53832181
A question I've always played around with in my head was simply "what if Anakin opted not to help Jedi or Sidious and just took Padme and fucked off to be a family man?"

>>53838680
>for all their advancedness, they were actually pretty useless
Way to notice the central point of the argument, that being more advanced doesn't really mean jack shit.

They had all this fucking fantastic rocketry and jet technology, but it didn't mean shit.

>>53838677
But it -was- advanced.

>>53838706
>They had all this fucking fantastic rocketry and jet technology, but it didn't mean shit.
Are you stupid, or are you just reading the first line and then formulating a response without looking at the rest.

Yes, the Germans had SOME advanced shit. The Allies ALSO had advanced shit. And it turned out, that the advanced shit the Allies had was more useful than the advanced shit the axis had. Therefore, you cannot say that the Germans were categorically more advanced; they were advanced in some stuff, not others.

>>53838727
Pray tell, how are you going to say, calculate that a V-2 was "more advanced" than a B-17 or an Avro Lancaster?

>>53838756
Well, we still use rockets to deliver payloads, but we don't use propeller planes.
The rockets are way more advanced.

>>53838652
>Desert Stom = OIF/OEF
Desert Storm was when the US reduced the world's third largest armoured force to fucking burned scrap with much fewer number and kicked them out of Kuwait. Furthermore, the initual part of the Iraq War, OIF, fucking tore the Iraqi military apart in 21 days, but it is irrelevant to this discussion as the Iraqi military did not enjoy and significant numerical superiority.

>Russia
>winning WW1
Imperial Russia ceased to exist and Russia quit the war, they do not get to come back once everyone else is done fighting and tell people they won. They got fucked and that's that.

>>53838643
Which proves that if you quality is sufficiently fucking shit, then you quantity isn't gonna cut it.

>>53833088
>>53835107
>>53835132
>ion weaponry

You know, if this thread is anything to go by, it is surprising the CIS didn't do more to allow their droids to resist ion-based weaponry.

To be fair, I'm not sure how common ion weaponry truly is in Star Wars, especially not in the new canon.

Though I am also wondering how the Republic never began setting up countermeasures to block out or hack/pacify droids in general.

I mean none of the vehicles in star-wars seem to require AI assistance.

>>53838777
We also use radar guided munitions as opposed to "dumb" munitions; which the Allied bombers had and the V rockets didn't. If we're just going by "led to stuff in use today" I can just as easily say that the bombers, as a package were more advanced.

>>53838787
Well, in that case, america also got fucked.
They literally never recovered from the middle east shit.

>>53838777
Rockets were invented in 13th century, planes in the 19th. "A rocket" does not imply higher state of advancement than a propeller plane.

>>53838797
>these propeller planes were more advanced than jets
You are reeeally stretching here.

>>53838777
American gearboxes and suspension was more advanced than the German, their supply trucks were also more advanced than German horses, American nukes were more advanced than whatever payload was in a V2.

>>53838801
If we're going by those measures, then planes were invented around the time paper was.

>>53838846
Even if that wasn't completely ludicrous, it just further reinforces my point unless you're claiming that fireworks are more advanced than modern fighter jets.

>>53838844
Yeah, it doesn't really matter how advanced your troops are, what matters is how many guys you can get to the front.

>>53838799
The United States of America, did not break down and cease to exist as a sovereign state, on the contrary, it managed to install a puppet in Iraq that is still sitting on the throne at this very moment, however incompetent that drone is, but that has no bearing on the argument of quantity vs quality in warfare.

>>53838890
Hey, you're the one who posited the first ludicrous comparison. And hey, germans had the fighter jets too!

>>53838918
The united states DID get a permanent and unending financial drain with no benefit, however. Not even free oil.

>>53838905
Yes, if you stubbornly ignore the idea of force multiplication entirely, then outnumbering your enemy is the only thing that ever matters in war. Intelligence, maneuvering, espionage and sabotage, logistics - none of these things matter if you just have more men. No army has ever won while outnumbered, throughout all military history.

I can see you are a very smart individual.

>>53838942
That is in no way, shape or form comparable to how fucked Russia got in WW1, and I'm going to state again, not relevant to the question of quantity vs quality, especially the part about the oil, as that's a consequence of politics rather than combat, IIRC, that was a group of Americans that deliberately got in the way the US handing all the oil rights over to US companies, so that Iraq retained sovereignty over their oil and got to sell to the highest bidder.

>>53838942
The cost/benefit analysis of that war doesn't change the fact that they handily won it. Whether it was worth it or not is another conversation for another board.

>>53839031
But russia falling was because of politics too.

>>53838819
>Too stupid to follow the chain of replies
>strawmanning deliberately.

Which is it? By the way, you do know that both the U.S. and Brits had jet fighters, right?

>>53839054
Because of politcal environment that likely wouldn't have been as unstable if Russia wasn't losing so hard, but I see you point.

>>53839054
The Americans butchered the Iraqi army wholesale whereas the Russians got militarily destroyed. Do you not see the difference?

>>53839095
That both were technically on the winning side and also had significant losses caused by the war?

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>>53839113
>invade country
>completely devastate enemy army
>set up puppet government that still rules the country 14 years later
>4,424 total deaths over the span of 13 years

>war declared by everyone
>lose incredible amounts of troops with very little in the way of successful defences or offensives
>lose ground
>lose ground
>lore more ground
>lose even more men
>collapse
>have their ruling family murdered
>quit war all together
>3,749,000 to 4,950,000 total deaths in less than 4 years

>>53839263
don't forget the to-this-day running constant cost!

>>53839286
So because keeping a shitty puppet states in the current politcal climate of the middle east costsa lot of money, that means that US performance in Iraq, is comparable to Russia's in WW1?

Is that the message you're trying to convey?

>>53839396
It means that both technically lost, even though they won.

>>53835920
Bugger, I got it from a fanfic.

>>53839441
That's not at all what it means. You're comparing apples to millions of dead russians.

>>53839483
To be fair, they're worth about as much.

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>>53838680
>1,188,577 tons

>>53839441
>3rd of March 1918
>Bolshevik Russia signs the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk with the Central Powers, abandoning the Allied war effort and granting independence to its Polish and Baltic territories, the Ukraine, and Finland.
>abandoning the Allied war effort
>granting independence to its Polish and Baltic territories, the Ukraine, and Finland.

Imperial Russia ceased to exist, it's successor abandoned the war effort, made peace with its enemy and surrendered huge swathes of territory, they were also excluded from the negotiations of the Versailles treaty because they quit, the negotiations that was for the winners of the war.

There is not a single ounce of winning for Russia in WW1.

The US is spending money on Iraq, not because they lost, but because they won. They played a stupid game and won a stupid price.

>guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy

It was a removal not a takeover. Jedi are a third party faction, one of their main functions during this time was to safeguard the republic.

Palpatine was not a beloved figure, many Senators had already begun speaking out against him or what he was doing.

The Separatists would have fallen apart if Sheev was removed (they did anyway) because their safety net of dark jedi and inside information would be gone. Traditionally in Star Wars the Republic has been known to give up a decent percent of the systems they control in order to maintain peace, so if the CIS wanted to negotiate peace they probably could have.

Sheev probably had a ton of contingencies if he died/lost somehow, so some considerable damage could have been done before the Republic stabilized again.

>>53839655
What was the name of that manga with the little girl magician in ww1?

>>53832232
>the Jedi were above reproach

Why are the people content with this?

>>53839679
I have no idea, her face looked retarded so I didn't bother with it.

>>53838193
Don't say stupid shit please.

>>53839739
Too late, thread already derailed. Twice.

>>53838942
This is blatantly untrue. We ensured that export/import taxes on oil (the lifeblood of the western world) could be quite easily manipulated via application of high explosive ordinance every decade or so.

>>53839692
It's wrong, and they weren't. There's a few episodes in TCW were people were getting fed up with the Jedi for supposedly prolonging the war to gain their own power.

>>53839656
>Palpatine was not a beloved figure

For a great many people, he was. The people who didn't like him were the minority, at first. Remember that when he announced the war was over and that he was transforming the Republic into the First Galactic Empire, he was met with thundering applause in the Senate.

Even the Legends "Delegation of 2000" was only supposed to be a small fraction of the Senate.

>>53839792
Why not just... take the oil without being taxed at all?
Because you beat them in a war?

>>53839814
Because then we'd be subject to very heavy scrutiny and critique from our peers on the global scale, who would rattle sabres about our blatant imperialism?

>>53839814
Because a first world power having a direct claim to the area that the entire western world needs to survive would cause world war three, but having an indirect claim only causes some discontent.

>>53839828
They already do that.
>>53839840
Doesn't america have more military assets and spending than the rest of the world combined?

>>53839922
>Doesn't america have more military assets and spending than the rest of the world combined?

No, simple as that, and even if it had more spending than the rest of the world put together, there's no way the outcome would be favorable to the US compared to simply not starting WW3.

>>53840144
The outcome COULD be planet America, though.
Because last I heard, they literally had more than the rest of the world all working together.

>>53840144
It wouldn't have started WW3 for the US to do something explicitly they're already doing implicitly, you drama queen. It's not like it's a secret. There are other sources of oil in the world.

>>53840174
>>53840144
upon doing research, america has recently dropped to a little less than half of the rest of the world combined.
So they need to make allies with like, canada, and then they have the power.

>>53840202
Percentage wise, they got like 40%.
The best bet if we're going for planet america would be for them to ally with china. That would bump the combined power up to 48%, which is a solid winning chance. Especially when you consider how much more of a clusterfuck it will be for the side that is a million nations to fight compared to the side that is two nations.

So, planet america (also china).

>>53840192
Yes, objectively it would. If we edged Russia out of the Middle East, we would go to war.

No one in America wants to go to war.

>>53840174
It's more equitable for everyone involved to do it this way. No one wants to involve themselves in another world war.

>>53839758
I'm away for a couple hours and came back expecting Star Wars, but I found a WW2 to Desert Storm debate. How does this happen?

>>53840278
But it's a very winnable war, with amazing prizes!

>>53840243
>The best bet if we're going for planet america would be for them to ally with china.
china's pretty shit

"realistically" speaking, places like the UK and France are significantly more attractive as allies.

>>53840329
China's the only one with a military spending even within an exponent of america though.

>>53840278
Were just talking about using resources and territory the US already seized and secured. They just bought the oil back instead of claiming it as spoils. You're insane if you think the Ruskies would attack over that.

>>53840202
I know you're being facetious but the existence of nukes throws those calculations off entirely.

>>53840350
They can't project it anywhere near as well.

>>53840174
>The outcome COULD be planet America, though.

The outcome COULD also be America in a worse situation that before the way, and that could is a much more likely could than than planet America.

>>53840192
I'm not the one that state that it would lead to WW3, I am the one that stated that the US would not be likely to win WW3 against everyone else. >>53839840 is the one that said that. So fuck off.

>>53838777
>we don't use propeller planes.
What is the Tu-95?

Wasted trips

>>53840307
>How does this happen?
I mean, if you follow the chain of comments up it's perfectly clear how we transitioned into this. Is that a rhetorical question?

>>53840350
China has no central military command, China has terrible internal stability, China has no proper force projection, China is a paper tiger, they likely couldn't even beat Russia.

>>53840514
I was removing cattails around my grandparent's dock, and missed 3 hours of comments.

>>53834622
Actually, Obiwan's form was geared towards that exact thing, and there is even a technique within the form that was built for the purpose of getting shot from all sides.

Obiwan was a master of the form, not just a guy who was pretty good at it. He wasn't just a master either, he was the master of the form, even Made Windu, who everyone knows had mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat, implied that Obiwan had mastered it beyond his own level.

Grievous' style was basically just an amped up version of Niman, which was a combination of the first five forms, although it was a Force-less version of Niman.

That was key in Obiwan's victory, since he was pretty much a direct counter to his style. Obiwan's biggest weakness was that he left himself vulnerable to Force based powers for the most part, but since Grievous couldn't use it, he was more than able to capitalise on the situation.

>>53840445
>>53840522
If we're adding in factors like force projection and military command, then america is back to needing no allies to conquer the whole thing.

>>53835080
Love the movies but I guess I'm bitter about the CIS losing. Anyone wish there was a CIS war with the Yuuzhan Vong?

>>53841366
>Vong

Nope. They can go and stay gone. While the books associated with them weren't the absolute worst of the EU, the Vong themselves were pretty egregiously bad and didn't really fit Star Wars.

There's a reason that the heads at LucasFilm actually started looking at rebooting the EU in 2004/2005ish, and it's not just because of old books not making sense in light of the prequels.

>>53834220
force is the coin light or dark are just the two opposing surfaces.

>>53841470
Personally enjoyed the NJO novels for the grimdark tone and the lack of a Jedi vs Sith plot. The Vong were mentioned all the way back to the Outbound Flight project, so it was a long planned event that Lucas approved of (please don't start a Lucas skub war).

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>>53835002
Of course the insignia is canon - we see it in Episodes IV, V, and VI.

But frankly I'm more willing to believe at this point that it was designed by Sabine Wren (the Mandalorian chick from Rebels), given how similar it looks to her own insignia.

>>53841698
Son't remember where Outbound Flight stands on the timeline, but I do know that on top of it, Canderous Ordo tells Revan about the time he encountered a Vong ship back during the Mandalorian Wars, so in the setting at least they're been around a while.

>>53840847
>to conquer the whole thing.

Define the whole thing, if the thing is the world, then, no, that's not gonna happen.

>>53841698
Lucas had nothing to do with the novels. And notably, he and the editors didn't consider the novels canon.

Also, Outbound Flight was released in 2005. The first Vong novel, Vector Prime, was released in 1999.

Grimdark isn't exactly what Star Wars has ever been outside of those novels, and when the climax of the first book ends with the death (granted, it was pretty cool, if pretty stupid at the same time), it kind of means that they're killing people just for the sake of killing people.

Which again, isn't really Star Wars.

>>53841780
KotOR was released in 2003, four years after the first Vong book.

>>53837052

>>53837052

Unless said clone is fucking dead, which is what the anon said.

Clones can die. Short of total body destruction (crushed, exploded, hacked to tiny pieces etc) droids can't die- they just break,which can be repaired.

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>>53838590
Me-262's required new engines ever 25 flight hours.They were hangar queens. Also P-51's and P-38's could counter their extreme speed in dives and during take-off/landings. Early jets had massive disadvantages that were not corrected until Vietnam.

>>53832232
>Without Palpatine influence, what remained of the separatists would have fallen apart
Not necessarily.

I mean, the Clone War only ended so swiftly because Palpatine gathered all the Separatist leaders together in one place and had Vader assassinate them.

>>53837896

This wouldn't hold up on court.

As far as we know it isn't explicitly illegal to associate oneself as a "Sith".

There is no definite way to know that there are only two Sith in the galaxy -bro the rule of two is literally meaningless. I mean hell in the Clone Wars alone there were at least five dark side Jedi running around (palps, Dooku, Ventress, Maul and Savage)- that the latter three weren't considered Sith but "apprentices" is a technicality.

Palpatine outting himself as a Sith is not a legal casus beli for arresting him. All the logical association linking him to orchestrating the war is circumstantial evidence and assumptions at best.

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>>53840202
Canada is busy killing their own military so that that can suck that NATO teat harder sadly.

>>53841848
Huh. Really? Then never mind then.

>>53842144
There was a mention of something in Visions of the Future that was threatening the Chiss Ascendancy that was later retconned to be the Vong, but IIRC there were no details, just that it was something bad out there in the Unknown Regions (which, to be fair, is kind of par for the course - the Unknown Regions are pretty much "Here Be Dragons" over an area about 1/3 of the size of the galaxy.

Also a character from the Crimson Empire comics was later retconned to be an early scout for the Vong as well, though Nom Anor (the character in question) basically was never fully illustrated, always hiding his face in shadows or a hood or something.

>>53842289
>>53842144
And admittedly, both Visions of the Future and Crimson Empire II (where Nom Anor first appeared) both started in 1998, whereas Vector Prime (the first NJO book, and the first to show the Vong for real) was released in October 1999.

>>53842289
Neat. Irritating in regards to the retconning (no, trust us guys, it was toootally this all along!), but hey, what can you do. I'd like to see more about the Unknown Regions, the idea of rough, untamed wilderness on a galactic scale where few live and fewer dare to tread appeals to me. Are there any books based on them by any chance?

>>53842386
Unfortunately not a lot, and other than RPG sourcebooks there's no books dedicated to the Unknown Region, but there's quite a few with mentions of it and parts of it in various novels and novellas.

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>>53832701
>>53832734

Both in Legends and Canon the Separatists were already losing the war by the time of the Battle of Coruscant. Their most important world's like Cato Nemodia and Mygeeto were under siege and their leadership was fleeing from one hiding spot to another. Attacking Coruscant and trying to kidnap Sheev was an action of desperation and its failure only fucked them further.

Sure, Sheev tricking the remaining Separatist leadership into holing up in one location (and taking the power switch to their whole army with them) and then sending Vader after them made for a clean end of the war but Republic victory was already all but assured.

>>53832181
My guess is they would keep it quiet and find proof, or we weren't shown that they had proof/the word of a Jedi Knight was proof of treason, so them defeating Sheevy P or arresting him wouldn't have been an issue.

However, the issue then comes from how much the CIS relied on Duku, Grevius, and Palpatine, as all of them had died in short order and with them died the head general, the face of the CIS, and their main benefactor/font of knowledge of the Republic's moves.

>>53841975
It should also be noted that the Gloster Meteor, which was introduced three months later, had comparable performance with a higher service ceiling and faster rate of climb and engines that required overhauls after 180 hours. The Me 262 wasn't advanced, it was simply first.

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>>53841848
Ok you got me I admit it, but what's your take on the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium for instance? Or any of the EU bad guys? Really it boils down to the fact while the EU had flaws I dislike the disney canon already especially the First Order (completely unoriginal and unrealistic in the context of the Star Wars galaxy).

>>53843353
I was never a fan of the Ssi-Ruuvi in the first place, but while they were weird, at least they sort of made sense.

The Vong didn't.

Most of the other EU threats were either spinoffs of the Empire, or minor sytem-level threats.

What exactly do you dislike about the Disney canon so far?

I can understand your frustration with the First Order, but their unoriginality is their whole point (though I do wish that they had used some more of the ships from the concept art, they would have been pretty baller then and not just "the Galactic Empire but not the Galactic Empire") - they are literally spun out of the hardest of the hardcore Imperials being told to fuck off into the Unknown Regions and rebuild.

I don't exactly see how that's unrealistic. Legends had the Empire continue pretty much unabated over a decade after Endor, though with more warlords and less centralized government. THAT is what I'd call unrealistic.

>>53843443
>Legends had the Empire continue pretty much unabated over a decade after Endor, though with more warlords and less centralized government. THAT is what I'd call unrealistic.
Wut? Not him, but Thrawn is Legends, and his return is 5 years after Endor, and by that point the Rebels/New Republic control roughly 3/4 of the galaxy, and the Empire is losing ground all the time. Plus, the major warlord period was a bit before that. By a decade after Endor, the Empire's pretty much shattered.

>>53843443
Imperial officers and captains escaped into the unknown regions and form a government in exile is a good plot starter. Where Disney goes wrong is that these Imperial outcasts have 20 years or so to build up infrastructure for residential areas and naval shipyards from scratch. The initial population consisted of Imperial Star Destroyer crews primarily so manpower is a plot issue as to why the FO is considered a threat to the New Republic even after supposedly several generations of Imperials. Why with dubious supplies their signature ship class be a battlecruiser is ridiculous. Starkiller Base was insanely retarded on many levels like a lack of planet wide defense, a weapon that kills a system's usefulness, and an absurd cost for a tiny empire in exile. Hardcore conservative Imperial officers following an alien leader? Lorebreaking stupidity with an even dumber name for said leader. I could write complaints for a lot longer.

>>53843476
>>53843443
Everyone in charge of an Imperial II and up pretty much declared themselves a new emperor in the old canon. Not unrealistic considering human greed and the immense power a single ship had.

>>53843773
>Hardcore conservative Imperial officers following an alien leader?

The second in command of the Empire was an alien, remember? And a very nonhuman one at that. At least Snoke LOOKS close enough to pass human.

There's also the possibility that the First Order was co-opted by whatever Snoke and his entourage have.

I will agree with you on Starkiller Base - I think more and more people are coming around on the fact that it was a really dumb rehash, and even Pablo Hidalgo said (vaguely, but still in terms certain enough) that he doesn't like TFA because of decisions like the Starkiller Base.

The thing is, though, the First Order isn't just those people who fucked off into the Unknown Regions. There's a large number of their supporters in the New Republic, feeding the FO information and resources, and also end up leaving to join them.

>>53843904
You talking about Thrawn? I can agree with the rest of your post but how does the (new) New Republic make sense? No central navy relying on pdfs is stupid considering how much adversaries they have. Rotating capital worlds means a Coruscant level defense system would be very difficult.

>>53834622
That's literally the point of Soresu.

>>53843904
>>53843773
The stupidest thing of the Starkiller base (well, outside of them ever being able to afford something like that), is usage.

I could SORT of see them wanting something like that as a deterrent against a massively stronger New Republic, but in that case, it would be retarded for them to keep it hidden, and of course to lash out at the New Republic the way they did instead of using it to ensure their continued survival in the case of a NR attack.

>>53843987
Talking about Mas Amedda, not Thrawn. Thrawn was never anywhere near the second-in-command of the Empire until after Palpatine's death in Legends, anyway.

The Empire had been disarmed, a peace treaty signed, political boundaries created. There weren't any adversaries any more, nothing that required a full military presence. The Galactic Republic/Old Republic got by with no sizeable fleet on its own until the Clone Wars, relying on police and pdfs as deterrents for pirates and Republic negotiators for any bigger threat, which there hadn't been for millennia.

Now, why the New Republic leadership demilitarized so quickly is a good reason (not wanting to repeat the mistakes that lead to them becoming the Empire, evil space wizard notwithstanding), but they probably were a bit too quick to mothball the majority of the fleet.

>>53840522
Sounds like a good reason to use them. Big enough to serve as a threat, but not strong enough to be a serious threat.

>>53844163
But even the corporate sector authority has a standing navy (even though they are outdated ships) to defend their borders. The New Republic doesn't need a Star Destroyer for every system but at least have some Mon Cal cruisers to throw at a threat to buy time for the defense industry to start rolling.

>>53844294
The Republic didn't fully demilitarize. I think that's where your misconception is - they reduced their navy by 90%, which is still a huge amount, but they're not gone completely.

And the CSA, while powerful in its own right, is still just a fraction of the Republic. And until the events of Bloodlines, there's no reason for the Republic to believe that they were going to be a significant problem - in fact, even after the events of Bloodlines, there's no real indication that they'd be a significant threat beyond money.

In fact, in canon, they DON'T have a standing navy as far as we know. The CSA isn't a standing government so much as it is a collective of corporations, pirates, tax evaders, and arms merchants.

>>53844372
90% is a number I heard of but without knowing how many ships they had before disarmament the navy could still be large or tiny, how can we know until it's clarified by the new canon? I have not read any new novels since I'm still pissed about my Star Wars novels being basically fan fiction so I am only going off of TFA.

>>53832181
Because Palpatine is so beloved, the Republic's equivalent of the Deep State would start leaking all sorts of shit, like Pong Krell having fallen to the Dark Side, and spreading rumors that Count Dooku and the Jedi had actually been working together during the Clone Wars to engineer Palpatine's downfall and seize power.

>>53832232
>>53832303
By the time of the great I Am The Senate fight the galaxy was already on Palpatine's side. The Jedi even long before Palpatine were distrusted by many and often disrespected, feared, or hated in worlds far away from the Core. They weren't seen as that great of people by everyone. If they successfully took out Palpatine it would confirm plenty of suspicions and very likely there would be a civil war anyway, since most of the government was on Palpatine's side and the Jedi would have to take charge in his place or just leave the Republic to anarchy or a Palpatine-allied government, which would defeat the purpose.

Technically Palpatine was right. The Jedi were traitors to the Republic and the leader they democratically elected, even if they didn't know he was a Sith. Their intentions were purely ideological and part of their religious feud, so if they told everyone he was a Sith so they could say they weren't attempting a political coup, they would either not be believed or would be just as sharply reprised since many in the galaxy would likely not care at all about the Jedi and Sith's ideological conflicts and would still see it as the Jedi killing a democratically elected leader because they disagreed with him.

No matter what there was going to be a civil war. The Jedi just followed Palpatine's plan for it.

>>53842775
The thing is, if Palpatine had died there would be a lot of infighting within the Republic. It's very likely that in the aftermath of his death the CIS could gain the upper hand against a fragmented Republic, which at that point was relying almost entirely on Palpatine's guidance. Look at the Battle of Endor. Up until then it had been one defeat after another for the Rebellion, and aside from the Death Star they were losing horrible. Endor was their last ditch effort, just like Coruscant was the CIS do-or-die move.

By winning Endor the Rebellion hadn't done much tactically aside from taking an incomplete Death Star, but Palpatine's first death fragmented the Empire, so even though the Rebellion had been getting shitwhipped for four years and the Empire was vastly stronger, the Rebels still won the war because the Empire fell apart, with warlords doing more damage to the Empire than the Rebels ever did. Even by the Battle of Coruscant the CIS was as strong if not stronger than the Rebellion was by the time of Endor.

Evidence shows a weaker and losing force can win a war simply by striking the leadership of the other side and letting it destroy itself from the inside out. The CIS probably couldn't have actually won, because without Palpatine they'd possibly come to infighting as well, but they could likely stalemate with the Republic and gain peace of some kind, the galaxy being divided between the Republic and Confederacy for a long time after.

>>53844492
What we know for sure is that after Endor and before Jakku, there was a large number of Imperial defectors jumping ship to the New Republic and taking ships with them, so the New Republic fleet up to the point where it's dismantled is probably much larger than it was when they fought at Endor.

But yes, sense of scale is an issue here, and one that's been everpresent with Star Wars.

All that being said, supposedly the majority if not all of the New Republic's military fleet was in the Hosnian System when the First Order shot Starkiller Base, so not only did the attack wipe out most of the political leadership of the Republic, but it wiped out the majority of its military leadership as well.

as a whole the CIS were actually the good guys.

>>53843443
As someone who didn't never got into the Vong stuff, is it worth reading?

I kinda like the idea of biotech + not the Empire

>>53834704
>>53834725
Did you miss that each time the Stormtroopers ran into the main heroes of the first two movies in the OT that they were under orders to let them go to reveal where the more important players in the rebellion were? In A New Hope from Grand Moff Tarkin, who wanted to track them back to Yavin 4, then later Vader, because all he wanted was Luke, he couldn't care less about Leia or Han or Chewie or oddly enough his own fucking droids.

>>53845257
They're not just biotech.

They're pain-worshipping biotech users who hate technology and are immune to the Force and have weapons and armor that are nearly immune to lightsabers.

In short, they're honestly closer to something that should be in 40k than they are something that should be in Star Wars.

Individual novels might be good, but the Vong as they were were pretty egregiously bad.

>>53845298
Really the only EU stuff I read were the X-Wing novels. What are some essential and unique EU stuff?

>>53845257
I enjoyed the books. Didn't actually finish the arc, but from what I remember from the first few, it's something that I'd definitely want to finish if I ever got the time.

>>53845738
Kotor 2

>>53845738
Depends on the era. Overall the prequel era has got quite a few really good books.

For post-RotJ stuff, if you haven't heard of the Thrawn trilogy, that should be your starting point. The Thrawn trilogy wasn't the first EU works, but it set the foundation for the rest of the EU that came after it. Realistically you should have read the trilogy before you read the X-Wing books, but too late for that. And once you're done with the THrawn trilogy, read the duology.

Ideally, you'd read the comic called Union - it marks an ideal stopping point for the EU if you don't want to get into the grimdarkness of the Vong.

Disregard>>53845780
Until you're far more versed with Star Wars EU material, and at the very least until you've played KotOR1.

>>53843826
>>53843476
>>53843443
From memory, post-Endor it started with a lot of murder and such as various Imperial warlords and the like tried to strike out on their own. It wasn't all that unrealistic given how Palpatine had set things up, I think.

The Alliance (turned into the Republic) was making steady ground, up to where they captured Coruscant two years after Endor, then Thrawn was five years after Endor. The Empire's warlords retreated into the Core Worlds and towards what in later times became the Imperial Remnant.

There were occasional spurts of resurgence depending on particular leaders emerging, but by the time you get to about 12-15 years post-Endor... that's basically it. It was a steady bleeding of the Empire's lifeblood from Endor right up to the Hand of Thrawn duology, where they finally sued for peace and got it (not that there'd been a serious conflict for about 5 years at that point).

>>53832181
Go to bed, /tv/. If you stay up much more, it'll be extremely painful in the morning.

>>53845738
>What are some essential and unique EU stuff?
Essential Legends:

Thrawn trilogy
X-wing novels, yes Stackpole as well, they cover some really important parts
I, Jedi, reestablishes the Jedi Order, you can skip the second half unless you like Corran Horn
Hand of Thrawn duology, establishes the end of the Empire, >>53845834 mentions the Union comic which is set immediately after the duology and in this anon's opinion is a perfect ending for the Legends continuity before it all goes to shit with the Vong
Survivor's Quest if you'd like an epilogue of sorts for it though

And that's it for essential Legends post-movies. Survivor's quest isn't essential though, it's just nice.

If the Jedi "succeeded" you would've had complete and total collapse. Palpatine's powerbase and the militarists were still around. They wouldn't have let the Jedi demilitarize the Republic once more (and they'd be right, the whole reason for the Republic being so weak as to be taken over by a Sith is because of the Jedi-Valorum Dynasty self-imposed Versailles Treaty after they beat the Sith)

>>53841698
>it was a long planned event that Lucas approved of

so was the fucking phantom menace

>>53845226

Eh, the propaganda reasons were good reasons to want to separate but the CIS were not really good. Neither of the big factions was really good, they were two mostly neutral groups manipulated by the Sith.

Mind you, I'm more than willing to say individual people on both sides were good. Just not the groups as a whole.

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>>53839679
Youjo Senki

>>53847512
>>53845226
Problem is the reason the CIS wants to leave the Republic (feeling put upon, bureaucracy slowed to a crawl, etc. etc.) was a situation that was created by Palpatine over a period of 1-2 decades, from when he first showed up as a senator.

The CIS and Republic were merely pawns in his bid to destroy the Jedi and take complete, iron fisted control of the galaxy. Both sides were played and forced into a situation that was entirely his creation, and had Palpatine not been around there wouldn't BE a reason for people to want to leave.

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>>53832181
>I mean how were the Jedi going to succeed with their takeover?

They weren't.

Seriously, we can shoot the shit about this until we're all blue in the face, but the truth is there isn't an alternative written. The light side is stronger because it is, Yoda said it was and there we are.

I'm not even saying this like it's an ok thing, it's just what it is. Star Wars is one of the most simple stories ever and the EU attempts to expand on it have just confused everything to shit.

The strongest side is whoever the author(s) wants it to be at that given moment.

>>53848776
>The light side is stronger because it is, Yoda said it was
When? I just watched the scene in ESB right now to check, and all he said is that the dark side is quicker, easier, and more seductive, and will ultimately consume you as it did Vader. Never that it is stronger than the light, or that the light is stronger than the dark.

>>53848828
>Yoda said it's more powerful
>Yoda said it takes more time to master but doesn't ruin you in the end
Same difference.

>>53838677
Also British intelligence trolled the Germans by reporting huge damage on London with the V2, so they adjusted the targeting accordingly and dropped most in the countryside. V2 rockets were expensive and useless. Smaller payload than the V1 as well, I think.

>>53840144
Spending =/= advantage. American equipment is hilariously expensive for marginal advantage.

>>53848840
Not really, essentially what Yoda said means that The Force is equal in power to it's cancer, and that one would reach that power more quickly with the Dark Side but in doing so one would be consumed by their emotions and not have the wisdom and foresight to use that power responsibly. As an example, look at Yoda's fight with Sidious, they were equal in power but it took Yoda 900 odd years to attain it whereas Sidious reached it much sooner.

>>53849250
>they were equal in power

>sheev prefers to run rather than fight as soon as he realises little green troll isn't going to be a pushover
>if so powerful you are, why leave
>sheev constantly on the back foot, snarling in defiance like cornered killer
>yoda straight up overpowers him in the lightning beam spam struggle
>sheev only "wins" because he has help arrive and the window of opportunity to kill him closes

Yoda had the edge. At least he was at that point in time. Yoda didn't win, but neither did Palpatine.

>>53849293
Because Sheev is a coward and also not stupid, there is a reason that Yoda was the leader of the Jedi, he was not a pushover, the smart move if he is coming for you is to run. Yoda did not allow that however, so Sheev was forced to fight, they were evenly matched, but Yoda decided that it was better to run after he fell to the floor of the senate chamber.
Yes, it's possible that Yoda may have won if there had been no interference by outside parties, it's also possible that Sheev may have won, but without a definitive say-so by Disney or Lucasfilm or George himself, there's no use discussing possibilities.

>>53833354
The Jedi Code is fucking bullshit. Like, take Ep3 as an example. Big fight with Obi Wan and Anakin, I have the high ground, etc.

Now, Anakin gets wrecked hard. Dude's a fucking nugget sliding into god damn lava. Obi Wan lets him suffer. That shit is fucked. "Oh, man, you're going to die and it's going to hurt the entire time but if I put you out of your misery I'll be the bad guy!" How is that good, just, fair, or any of the other shit the Light side claims to be?

The Force is a tool, like a knife or gun or screwdriver. It's versatile, and can do pretty much whatever the space wizard wants it to do, but it has no morality inherently. If you're bad and do bad stuff with the Force, then that's the Dark Side. If you're good and do good stuff, Light Side.

>>53849364
Oh, not saying Yoda would definitely win.

Just that they weren't equal in power, Yoda from all appearances had the edge in that duel. Doesn't mean he can't lose.

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>>53849293
>>sheev prefers to run rather than fight as soon as he realizes little green troll isn't going to be a pushover
Why fight though? He already won. No need to go all dramatic all of a sudden.

>if so powerful you are, why leave
He'd already won, why fight a battle that is essentially the Jedi Last Stand?

>sheev constantly on the back foot, snarling in defiance like cornered killer
Better than how Anakin fought.

>Yoda straight up overpowers him in the lightning beam spam struggle
After tapping into the Dark Side of the Force, which is why he ran away.

>sheev only "wins" because he has help arrive and the window of opportunity to kill him closes
>It's not a win because the Other Side was smart enough to bring Reinforments.

>>53849374
Obi-wan never said why he didn't just end Anakin, so everything you said is pure bullshit.
>>53849412
He might have had a small edge, but i saw it as a duel of the titans.
>>53849428
Yoda didn't tap into the Dark Side, and there were no reinforcements for Yoda to call upon.

>>53849374
Because Anakin was his brother, anon. He says it himself: he loved him. And as much as he loved him, as much as it hurt to watch him suffer and burn even as Anakin had become Vader, he still couldn't bring himself to kill HIS OWN BROTHER.

Was it the wrong choice? He'd have saved the galaxy a lot of suffering if he'd killed Anakin and put him out of his misery, certainly. But love is what stayed his hand, and ultimately love is what led to Luke's love for his father not just saving Anakin, but to the ultimate destruction of the Emperor and the Sith.

>>53849458
Love is mercy and mercy is an end to suffering. If your brother were mortally wounded and in a great deal of pain, you're saying you wouldn't release him from his suffering? Seems like the loving action is a swift and painless death.

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>>53849453
>Yoda didn't tap into the Dark Side,
Anon its pretty much implied in the movies Yoda was Tapping into his Hatred for Sidious.

>there were no reinforcements for Yoda to call upon.
Obi-wan could have helped him, Yoda and he could have double teamed Sidious

>>53849475
It's a release from suffering versus knowing that you killed your own brother.

I can't say I know what I'd do if I had to make that choice for either of my brothers, but I can understand the dilemma.

>>53849476
No, Yoda did not tap into the Dark Side, it's not implied or stated in any shape or form, all I saw was Yoda giving in to the force in his attempt to absorb all of the lightning Sidious attacked with.

Obi-wan was on Mustafar at that time dueling Anakin, he could not help.

>>53838607
The israel thing is also mostly about tactics and shit chain of command, thanks to a culture badly adapted for modern warfare.

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>>53849250
> what Yoda said means
This is exactly what I was talking about. It means what he said when he said it. The other bullshit means what it means.

If some anon really had a bug up their ass they could find some obscure line in the EU that contradicts what you wrote, and you could do the same, and they could do the same ad nauseum until the heat death of the universe.

We've all seen the threads about it.

That was mainly my point, not which was stronger. Like I said, the stronger option is whatever the author feels like it is.

>>53849659
And Yoda said that the Dark Side was quicker, easier, more seductive, but not more powerful, he did not say that The Force was more powerful either.

As an aside I really wish people would stop saying the "Light Side" it's just The Force and the Dark Side, nobody in any of the movies refers to it as the light side except Leia a Non-Jedi and a wannabe Sith Lord.

>>53849712
Luke does refer to it as the "good" side once, but I otherwise agree, there's just the Force and the dark side which is a cancer upon it.

>>53849736
Are we sure he's talking about the force? that could have been referring to the Rebellion, unless that's something from teasers and trailers for 8 that I haven't watched yet.

>>53837927
Not sure if bait or somebody is really that ignorant.

>>53849746
Yes, he says it somewhere in Ep6, when talking about Vader. Either to Leia or to Kenobi, he says if he confronts Vader he "can bring him back to the good side" because there's still good in him, he's felt it.

>>53849804
Then the Emperor has already won.

>>53841698
I would enjoy this some kind of grimdark tone but Vong just failed to deliver their part and just ruined entire concept.

>>53849804
I always took that to mean just breaking him out of his hatred and fear and to the side of those morally in the right, but I can see how one could think he was talking about the force there.

>>53849856
Hmm. Reasonable conclusion that he's just talking about "moral" sides, I guess. It still feels more to me like he's speaking of it as the Force but, but like you, I can see the argument for the other.

When people make clever little threads like this about Palpatine being the democratically elected what the fuck ever, why do they always gloss over the fact that Palpatine was guilty of multiple counts of Treason and a variety of high crimes and misdemeanors against the Republic and its citizens for about a dozen different things he was doing during the war with Dooku? Giving away state secrets to a government they're at war with, willfully sabotaging the efforts of their military causing mass death and destruction, ordering atrocities against his own people, kidnapping, illegal medical experimentation, large scale corruption, and about a dozen other war/civil crimes.

Is it stupidity that they miss the obvious, or is their Empire/Sith apologism just bait so they leave the obvious giant hole in their argument on purpose, or is it just an unavoidable consequence of all the /pol/ leakage contaminating the water table these days?

>>53849948
They're Stormfags, you know Neo-nazis, that's pretty much it.

>>53848828

Luke's Question: "Is the Dark Side Stronger?"

Yoda's Answer: "NO, no. Quicker, Easier, More Seductive."

The no is right there and you're just ignoring it. Twice. It is quicker, it is easier, it is more seductive, but is it stronger, NO.

>>53849984
Anon, that doesn't mean the light side is stronger.

>>53842007

Anakin tells us that they have been EXPLICITLY looking for a Sith Lord for the entire Clone War. They knew that Dooku was the replacement apprentice from the Geonosis incident, he admitted that the Sith Lord from Naboo was still out there and had trained him.

This is irrefutably knowledge that some levels of the Republic government and military are aware of, because if it wasn't Palpatine would have never referred to Dooku as "A Sith Lord," while in-character during the start of Episode 3. Therefore, since there is some official record at some level of classification that the Sith are the driving force of the Clone War, and Dooku is known to be the Sith's apprentice, then ipso fuckin' facto the Master, Palpatine, is responsible for the Clone War.

Wouldn't hold up in court he says. Yeesh. Even if by some insane bullshit a judge would say that wasn't enough, the court of public fucking opinion would see his ass torn down or a bloody civil war begin then and there.

>>53850018

>Is the Dark Side stronger?
>No
>This doesn't mean the Light Side is stronger

...how?

>>53850074
They could be equal in strength, dumbass.

>>53850088
Or not even have the "strength" measurement at all. If power and capabilities of Force User are fully dependant on his own abilities the question loses any meaning and the answer is still "No".

>>53850088

In the absence of a statement that they are equal in strength, the obvious implication of a "No," to "Is X stronger," is that Y is in fact stronger. Why would you assume he meant "they're the same," from such a flat denial of one's superiority? That's weird. You're weird.

>>53848776
>Yoda is always right

Greedo shot first and Gungans are actually Goongus.

>>53849293
What movie did you watch?

Palpatine and Yoda are shown to be equals in both Force and Saber abilities. Sure Palpatine can't fuck around with Yoda like he did with Mace "Thru the Windu" Dindu, but just because he has to exert effort to fight Yoda doesn't mean he's drastically weaker than Yoda.

Yoda absorbs his lightning but both of them are blasted away. Compare that to Yoda almost effortlessly taking Dooku's lightning, because Yoda was stronger. With Palpatine it's different. Yoda and Palpatine were the two strongest Jedi and Sith masters of their eras. Yoda's often considered one of the strongest Jedi ever in EU and Newcanon, and Palpatine is often considered one of the strongest Force users period of all time in EU and Newcanon. Their fight was very much equal.

Both stalemate a saber duel and are blasted away by Force power, but in the end it's Yoda who runs away and Palpatine who has the last laugh. The fight itself was a draw, but in the end Palpatine was the victor.

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>>53834712
>not watching the obscure cartoon

Step it up sempai

>>53834739
I don't see why everybody hates this moment. Crazy shit like this is half the fun of star wars.

>>53850508
the boss battle is as annoying as shit with tie fighters constantly strafing you while you have to take them out awkwardly.

>>53835020
Edgeslayer didn't drag the thing out of the sky, it was already damaged and was falling. All he did was force it down faster.

>>53844880
A lot of infighting maybe, but their infighting would have been almost entirely political, unlike the warlords of the empire's aftermath. The Republic's army was loyal to the Republic, not the head senator. The Empire's army was loyal to the Emperor, and with him gone their loyalty was forfeit.

>>53850527
That's fair. I only rented it for a weekend and never actually got to that part.

>>53832181
>I mean how were the Jedi going to succeed with their takeover?

They weren't. The Jedi had no solid proof the Chancellor was a Sith lord who had manipulated the galaxy into the war. Removing him from office, even if they don't kill him, would just disgrace the Jedi and destabilize the Republic. The removal of the duly elected and very popular Chancellor, by the unelected and increasingly unpopular Jedi, would lead to a massive political crisis in the Republic. The Senate would be outraged and would demand the Jedi council be arrested. There might even be a failsafe put in place by Palpatine to activate order 66 in the event of his death or removal from office. Whether outlawed or massacred, the Jedi order would be finished as a political force in the Republic, and the Senate would seize control over the clone army. So the leadership of the clone army gets thrown into disarray, while the war is still ongoing.

The shutdown order is likely never given to the droid army. Sure, Grievous is dead, but there are still lower level Separatist leaders who can step in and take his place. It's also probable that more worlds would then defect to the Separatists, as they would have the upper hand and the Republic would look even more unstable and corrupt than usual due to the conduct of the Jedi. With the support of the Jedi eliminated, and a losing war on it's hands, the Republic would either collapse outright, or shrink to a rump consisting of the wealthiest and most secure core worlds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSdW1e2USAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-RwECiuJCo

>>53833560
Also, if you stick to stricter canon, the light side is better because the Jedi extinguished the sith order, and for all their efforts, the Sith couldn't wipe out the Jedi

>>53834739
>starkiller becoming canon

You better be fucking joking. I know Disney's done a thorough rapejob of the lore already, but you better be fucking joking.

>>53850508
Because the entire game was a massive exercise in stupid shit, from the terrible controls to the boring combat to the head over heels retarded story.

>>53852471
This has already been covered. Starkiller isn't canon, and there's not even a remote indication that he is. The idea that the Alliance symbol was his family crest is purely a Legends thing, and even then it wasn't a thing outside of his games.

>>53837052
The logistics of a steril field hospital+surgeon far outweigh the logistics of a bot mechanic.

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>>53832701
>>53832734
>>53833218
>>53833239
>>53833255
>>53833291
>>53833354
>>53835033
>>53835194
>>53835850
>>53837004
>>53838792
>>53839656
>>53841366
>>53842953
>>53844880
>>53845226
>>53847512
>>53848718

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>>53835348
Yes, this is my head cannon now. Bendak, needing serious medical aid uses his fortune to leave taris in critical condition/stasis. He then recovers, heavily prostheticed and seeking help, returns to mandalor seeking his clan.

He then gets married, and has a good mando child, continuing the clan legacy. The line continues, destined for greatness. Eventually one of them is born force sensetive, and taken to be a jedi. Discovering the power inherint in the force he continues to have jedi children.

Eventually the jedi we kill in rhe firat level as vader, is born. He knows of his long and illustrious liniage and becomes a guardian, embracing the mando heritage of fighting, and the jedi arts. He spurns the cinstrictive life of a jedi, and fathers a son, needing to continue the clan.

>The rest, as they say, is a stupid fucking videogame that was made for wii owning autists so they can flail around and feel like a jedi

>>53833325
>post a picture of a taoist when talking about space taoism

The Dark Side is "better" at violence, but it's self-defeating in the short or the long run. The Light Side (not the Jedi way, the actual Light Side) is the Force's natural state, and it will always correct to this state over time. The harder you try to force the Force to do your will, the more dire the correction will be.

>>53834739
Don't troll, this shit game and character are not canon.

>>53845182
So what you're saying is none of the interim matters because force awakens literally wipes it away

>>53854898
Why not play the 360 or piss3 version where it's just a CUHRAYZEE action game

>>53854977
They never were, and as far as I'm concerned even if Lucas said at any point that it was canon, which I don't know if he did, I'd still call bullshit. Even if you're not autistic for the lore the game's story is still so incredibly stupid that it hurts to play even if you've got just a passing knowledge of Star Wars, and that's not counting shit gameplay and controls.

Not everything pre-Disney was good, even if Disney definitely sucks.

>>53850311
>Sure Palpatine can't fuck around with Yoda like he did with Mace "Thru the Windu" Dindu

I've seen so many people on the internet say that Sheev was not, in fact, fucking around and Mace actually beat him.

>>53856341
Your first problem is listening to people on the internet if they're calling him Sheev, which they do when they say he got beaten, because that means they're following Disney canon. You know, the one where the Greedo fired first, KOTOR never existed, the Clone Wars had very few battles, the Galactic Civil War ended instantly, and Luke Skywalker's daughter beats up Sith acolytes. Even then it only appears in the Episode III novelization approved by Disney as a brief mention that Dindu overpowered Palpatine, but the novelization is full of so many errors and inconsistencies that I'd take it with a grain of salt.

The movie itself very strongly suggests Palpatine threw the duel in order to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, allow himself to appear nearly killed by the Jedi to appeal to Anakin and gain scars to show the galaxy, and to bring his plan to fruition.

>>53856408
You are flat out wrong as word of god LONG before the sale to Disney proves the below right, and as much as you may not like it George's word is still canon until otherwise proven.
>>53856341
You are right Lucas stated so in the commentary for Revenge of The Sith

>>53856540
He also called the Gungans Guunguhs. What's your point?

>>53856994
My point, is that Windu won, regardless of what you think the movie implies, the creator has come right out and said that Windu won, that's it, nothing more.

>>53857059
The same creator that said a character from a badly-made cartoon founded the Rebellion, and who said that Greedo shot at Han first, and who said Jar Jar was the most important part of his story, and who said that Wookiees celebrate Life Day by watching cooking shows, and who said the Mos Eisly cantina was run by a sitcom star, and who said that Disney enslaved him, and who said that Yoda was a one-of-a-kind species when talking about his movie that includes another Yoda species, and who said that Gungans are actually Goongus, and who said th

>>53856408

Are you on crack or something? Lucas made Greedo fire first a decade before Disney bought Star Wars, and the Clone Wars CG series is still canon because Asoka and Rex and a bunch of other characters are in Rebels so saying the Clone Wars had very few battles is nonsensical.

Teenagers who worship at the tip of Jorge's dick acting like the big bad evil corporation has corrupted his beautiful perfect creation should go back to bed for about a decade.

>>53850945
>The Jedi had no solid proof the Chancellor was a Sith lord who had manipulated the galaxy into the war.

Shooting lightning bolts at people, having a red lightsaber and being a withered pile of dark side energy is pretty good evidence. I don't think he'd be able to keep hiding it after he died.

>>53857125
I do not know what the fuck you're talking about a cartoon, In the last released version before the sale they shot at exactly the same time although it's clearly edited, he was obviously fucking kidding about Jar-Jar to troll assholes like you. Who cares what Wookies do for Life day? So what if it was? I never heard that comment. He changed his mind happens to a lot of authors, look at Tolkien. who fucking cares about the goddamn GUNGANS or GOONGUS, I don't, why do you?

>>53857240
>he was obviously fucking kidding

the sheer deposits of salt and butthurt lucas exuded after jarjar's horrible reception says otherwise. a huge amount of faith was put into jarjar.

>>53857240

>I do not know what the fuck you're talking about a cartoon

He's talking about Asoka. He thinks that Rebels portrayed events such that she was the founder the Rebellion. Which just proves he's a fucking idiot who has no clue what he's talking about.

>>53857271
But he didn't crafted him for the butthurt assholes who hated Jar-Jar, he made Jar-Jar for kids, because despite my own, and many others, wishes to the contrary the entire Skywalker Saga is for kids, with the occasional bonus for adults.
>>53857321
I thought it was still mainly Mon Mothma and Leia and Bail? they just used the royalist rebellion on Onderon until Saw got fucking crazy.

>>53857359

It WAS still mainly Mon Mothma and Bail. In Rebels Asoka is very VERY explicitly just an agent of Bail Organa, working at his direction to aid in the organization of rebel cell activity as an intelligence and field operative. Mon Mothma then later formally organizes those individual cells into a unified Rebel Alliance after Asoka's apparent death in a duel with Vader.

I'm still hoping Bel Iblis is going to play into things at some point, although at least thus far they haven't done anything that explicitly cuts him out and we can assume he still played a part off-screen. The Corellian Resistance was active and organized long before the events we see in Rebels, at least back in Legends continuity.

>>53857489
>pretending a low budget cartoon for six year olds is star wars canon

>>53857489
I don't watch Rebels so excuse my ignorance, good to know it hasn't been changed yet.

Is Disney ever going to get the Star Wars game rights back from EA?
>>53857526
It is, but the movies were for six year olds too, Anon.

>>53857554
>the movies were for six year olds

For a general audience. The original trilogy is pretty serious most of the time.

>>53857554
EA only signed a contract for ten years. That was either in 2012 just after Disney bought LucasFilm, or in early 2013.

Either way, we only have about half a decade of EA left.

>>53857554

>Is Disney ever going to get the Star Wars game rights back from EA?

God willing. EA is the worst. Disney doesn't exactly have the world's best track record when it comes to games as an outlet for their IPs, but they can't possibly be worse than EA.

That said, I am cautiously optimistic about Battlefield 2's Campaign mode. It looks pretty interesting.

>>53857586
>>53857604

EA and Disney are identical. Soulless corporate husks devoid of life, personality, or creativity, seeking only to squeeze out the last possible penny from the general public, willing to throw away and destroy any property that isn't immediately lucrative, and caring absolutely nothing about stimulating or quality content, merely appealing to the lowest common denominator in search of profit.

>>53857567
G for General Audiences, usually means, targeted at kids.
>>53857586
Oh fuck they already raped Battlefront, what are they gonna murder next?
>>53857604
Forget God, Disney just needs to buy EA so they can't rape what few good games somebody hasn't ruined.

>>53838554
>legetemazy
Come on anon

>>53838554
Yes. The same people who support Trump now will continue rationalizing that support no matter what, because stopping will mean admitting their investment is lost. And the same goes for Palpatine, doubly so because Palps had actual magical mind-control powers.

>>53857640
Knights of the old republic.

They are people who still think kotor3 will come out and be made by creators of Kotor 2