I heard when he came back he admitted that parts of the Codex

No it's not true. But he did add things to the codex and when people tried to argue he just told them to talk to the hand.

>>53813024
>Talk to the hand

Holy shit I forgot about that early 00's expression. That's one to be readded to my vocabulary.

File: 1496528555194.jpg (97KB, 960x637px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 960x637px

>>53813089
>00's expression
>born in 1992

do not re-add that to your vocabulary

>>53812820
Yeah, the splitting into chapters had a very specific reason at the time, and guilliman just thought when it became a better idea to reform into legions they would rather than worshipping him and religiously following everything he wrote to the letter forever

>>53813146
>3

What you just jelly because of how Off the chain it sounds?

>>53813024
Who does he think he is to question his own infallibility ?

>>53812820
No. The one thing he said, definitely and for sure was that dismantling Greater Ultramar was a bad idea. Because Ultramar was to be an example for the Imperium to follow, but by dismantling it to a handful of systems, he snuffed the beacon of light into a candle so to speak. So he's rebuilding greater ultramar, and giving various successor chapters rule over different regions Though, through necessity of defending a region so large, he does seem to be creating a demi-legion, if not in name.

>>53812820
He thinks privately to himself a couple of times that dogmatic adherence to the Codex has hamstrung the Imperium in several ways, and also that he spent the first thirty years trying to clear up all the things that kept being attributed to him when he never said them at all. And eventually he just gave up correcting people, went and did his own shit and ignored the Codex if he had to. Which specifically involved most notably how he used the Primaris Marines, i.e. as Legion-strength forces. He did split them up into Chapters over time, but he still kept multiple thousands of them as a Legion force for his Crusade fleet(s).

People definitely bitched about it, he ignored them.

What he really, really hated though, was all the religion and spirituality. He remarks that he sometimes has to keep himself from flinching every time it comes up, and apparently he talked about the Imperial Truth a little while after he woke up. It did not go well. At all. Hoooly shit it did not go well.

He also alluded to, at least near the early points, that he was somewhat unimpressed with his Chapter-era Ultramarines. He found their hero-worship bordering on devotion to be unsettling, and didn't like that they essentially "revered" him. He explicitly refers to the Legion-era Ultramarines as "better times" because of it.

Although he does have Cato Sicarius following him around now. He really is not impressed with said person's ego. I'll quote his internal monologue here, mostly because it's fucking hilarious:

>Sicarius approached the arming cage with the easy swagger of a master swordsman. Captain of the Second Company, Master of the Watch, Grand Duke of Talassar, Knight Champion of Macragge and High Suzerain of Ultramar. His titles fitted his ego.

>>53814190
>He remarks that he sometimes has to keep himself from flinching every time it comes up,
Except he's doubting the Imperial Truth.

>apparently he talked about the Imperial Truth a little while after he woke up. It did not go well. At all. Hoooly shit it did not go well.
Unless I totally forgot something, this is a huge exaggeration. The priest is like "Yeah, I heard when you awoke you said not to worship the Emperor."
And the Guilliman's like, "He said it not me", while thinking that the Imperial Truth was a lie.
and the Priest just shrugged like yeah sure whatever you say bub.

I really, really like Guilliman's character in Dark Imperium. He's a really good perspective on the Imperium, but with a degree of power as to not be basically a nobody that gets branded a heretic. It's a really tough and complex relationship, so it if anything highlights how grimdark the setting is, even when one of it's greatest heroes can't do much about it but try to hold ground.

The second best part is reading Marneus Calgar, one of the giants of the setting, feel suddenly like a piece of shit because he hasn't done enough.

Also, of Mortarion being told off right to his face.

>>53814236
Yeah, he's doubting the truth, but he still does not like the religion going on in the 40K era, he's thinking about it when the tech-priests are praying to the Omnissiah after they put him into his armour.

He does say he insisted on it at first, and Rowboat thinks (internally) that it was a bad idea to have done so. Here:

>"I have heard something of your beliefs," said Mathieu. "When first awoken, you insisted upon something called the Imperial Truth?"
>Guilliman looked away, irritated, reminded of old lies. He had been rash to voice his objections to the Ecclesiarchy in those early days after his awakening. It had taken him time to recover the full measure of his wits, and he had been alarmed by what he found.

He says to Mathieu instead that there should be a "modified" version of it:

>"A modified version of it, yes," he said. "Reason still has a place amid all this madness."
>"Some may disagree with that," said Mathieu amicably. His eyes glinted shrewdly. "As I understand it, my lord, this truth denies not only your divinity, but that of your father."
>"The Emperor denied His own divinity," said Guilliman flatly.
>The priest shrugged. Guilliman had seen the look on the priest's face too many times on other holy men. It was the look of the blindly faithful.
>If the Emperor Himself stood up, thought Guilliman, came down off His golden throne and proclaimed 'I am not a god!' then they would burn Him as a heretic.

He thinks then that Mathieu doesn't have many fanatic signs, but he'll give it time. Then:

>"If you do not hold with the teachings of our glorious church," said Mathieu, "then why did you treat with us at all?"
>"Because the Adeptus Ministorum has power, and though it has used that power unwisely on occasion, once the balance sheet is reckoned, I see it is and has been a force for good. I need the Adeptus Ministorum. I need their support. The turning of the galaxy depends on their approval, though I may wish it were not so."

>>53814372
>>53814236
Long story short: Robby G does not like or want the Ecclesiarchy. He just has to swallow his bile and deal with them as best he can.

>>53814269
>I really, really like Guilliman's character in Dark Imperium. He's a really good perspective on the Imperium, but with a degree of power as to not be basically a nobody that gets branded a heretic.
I agree. He's nowhere near my favourite Primarch, but it's definitely interesting to see his viewpoint as one of those "demigods" from ancient times brought forward into the modern era and basically hating it all, waking up from a "nine thousand year sleep into a war he had thought was already won."

It's why I'd like to see another Primarch or two pop back up. Probably Dorn or the Lion. Both for how they can play off Guilliman with their own character differences, they can provide him somebody else on his level, and from that they can also give him some much needed support.

>>53814078
>t. Ecclesiarchy

>>53814372
Wasn't the Emperor as Omnissiah already well established long before the Primarchs were even conceived?

>>53812820

You should go read it, its pretty good

>https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By9476h8G4T_alhFam1Oby1Xc0E

>>53814395
>Robby G does not like or want the Ecclesiarchy.
I'm willing to bet once he stops fighting his own thoughts so much, and gives in to thinking the Emperor is god, he'll try to reform the Ecclesiarchy. After all, he did say that once everything is accounted for, the Ecclesiarchy has done net good.

>Theoretical, he thought. The Emperor is a god and denied His own divinity to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.
>Or, he continued to himself, Theoretical, the Emperor was not a god, but became one. Practical, He is a god.
>He dismissed the idea angrily. These theoreticals had trooped through his thoughts so many times before he had grown weary of them, but his mind would not stop generating counter-arguments to his beliefs.
>Theoretical, the Emperor was always a god, but was unaware of it. Practical, He is a god.
>No, he thought.
>Theoretical, the Emperor became a god to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.
>He is not a god, he thought.
>Theoretical, Guilliman thought savagely now, turning his anger against his traitorous mind. The Emperor was never a god, denied He was a god and has been wrongly elevated by men who see power and mistake it for divinity. Practical, the Emperor is not a god.

>‘If you do not hold with the teachings of our glorious church,’ said Mathieu ‘then why did you treat with us at all?’
>‘Because the Adeptus Ministorum has power, and though it has used that power unwisely on occasion, once the balance sheet is reckoned, I see it is and has been a force for good.

All this talk of Guilliman hating the church seems willfully ignorant of the fact that BL is clearly setting him up to become a theist for the drama with the next returned loyalist. And in fact, it pretty much says the only reason why Guilliman won't allow himself to come to the god conclusion is because he's asspained M41 Emperor didn't live up to his loving memory.

Has Gulliman had any documented encounter with the Emperor or at least viewing the Golden Throne?

Kinda curious on if Emps can even reach out to him

>>53814395
If Lion El'Jonsen wakes up I hope he would command all chapters to merge/form Legions again. Fluffwise there is not nearly enough marines to defend the Imperium properly.

I hope Corvus shows up and loses his shit over Primaris Marines

>>53814442
I'll just quote that little exchange here for you, since I'm pulling out various things from the book already:

>"My lord," said Sicarius. With one last bow, he departed, leaving two Victrix Guard behind.
>"Praise the Omnissiah for the Armour of Fate!" proclaimed the tech-priest. "Praise the Emperor for His wisdom! Praise the motive force for the activation of the primarch's shield."
>Guilliman hid a wince at the tech-priest's fervour. He had little time for religion.
>At least they are not singing, thought Guilliman. He had had to put a stop to that.

There are others scattered throughout, such as when he hates referring to "spirituality" because it sounds too religious. Things are mostly him keeping his mouth shut and thinking about how he doesn't like it rather than opening his mouth and pissing people off.

>>53814464
He might eventually give in to it, who knows. Right now though, I like the back and forth he has. Another Primarch coming back would give him space for admitting that okay, fine, the Emperor is a god now, because it keeps that friction going with the other Primarch instead. But it'd need that next Primarch, I think, to properly trigger it.

I do agree that the seeds have been planted. Fulgrim tells him outright that he thinks the Emperor is basically a god who was just in denial about his divinity.

>>53814466
Yes.

He senses/is saved by the Emperor when Fulgrim throatslashed him, he refers to a "golden light" that envelops him in peaceful sleep, the implication being that the Emperor saved him just long enough to get him into stasis.

The other one is when he reflects on his conversation with his father. He is not impressed with it, it does seem like Black Library's "Primarchs are only a tool, Emperor never thought of them as sons" opinion is now functionally the new canon.

He admits parts of the codex were mistaken, mostly separating marines from government. He thinks if the marines stayed a part of the process the Imperium wouldn't have regressed so bad

That and the ultra-adherence to the codex

File: Untitled.png (70KB, 661x520px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 661x520px

>>53814466
Honestly, it's the one bit of new fluff that everyone seems to have gotten behind. All the new canonfags are like "See! The Emperor was always a manipulative bastard the whole time! See!" and all the old canonfags are like, "See! The Emperor's been driven insane by then Throne and lost all compassion, just like in Inquisition Wars! See!"

Which was a damn sure sight better than all the autistic screeching from both sides we've been seeing.

>>53814269
>>53814395
GW has been trying to clean up the reputation of the Ultramarines/Guilliman for years now after what Matt Ward did. Know No Fear portrayed him pretty well too.

>>53814473
Lion would immediately reform his Legion I'd say. The Dark Angels are accused of legion building after all, they take their instructions from the Watchers etc.

>>53814466
As soon as he woke up he made for Terra which turned into a long journey (the Terran Crusade) then he got to the throne room and went before the Emperor

The Emperor did talk to him but his behavior disturbed Guilliman more than what he actually said. Guilliman describes it as a inventor who has found his lost toy, and 10,000 years of the throne has stripped away all of the emperor's humanity. He's in constant agony and doesnt' care about appearing human anymore so straight up calls Guilliman a tool. Guilliman reflects very negatively on the experience and never bothered trying to talk to the Emperor again in the last century.

>>53814507
>implying the COMPLETELY LOYAL AND CODEX ADHERENT DARK ANGELS CHAPTER is secretly a legion

>>53814473
Lion seems to be the next one, there's been a few hints here and there and he's the only other one we know for a fact his location. But it would be really convenient that the Imperium gets its loyalists back in such a nice order:
1)The Politician/Diplomat/Empire Builer
2)The General Who Might Have One Day Surpassed Horus.

>>53814514
>>53814491
I don't like that section of the book myself, I'd have preferred it to be more ambiguous than just Guilliman thinking "yeah, the Emperor was a lying dick the whole time, BUT NOW MY EYES ARE OPEN AND I SEE THE TRUTH".

>>53814507
They don't take instruction from the watchers, would you take instruction from a walking lectern?

>>53814491
>>53814514

Seems about right.
Anybody willing to build a Galactic Empire on the blood of countless alien races and dissenters couldn't have love in their heart. I believe the only thing he loved was the Empire he created.

Not to sound like a complete edgelord but compassion and empathy are for the conquered.

>>53814540
He does love though.
>The Emperor loves no one man, thought Guilliman. He cannot afford affection – that is the honest practical for the impossible task that faces the Master of Mankind. He did not love His sons, He does not love men, but He does love mankind.

>>53814525
Maybe, but Guy Haley was told he could do whatever he wanted as long as he featured Primaris Marines and in the words of Laurie Goulding on 40k canon and people not liking some of his stuff: "I still got to tell my story, not everyone’s going to like it."
Maybe an author will come along some day with their own take, and his story will be more compatible with the one you want.

>>53814540
He must have had compassion for mankind though otherwise he wouldn't have bothered with any of it.

I dont think its quite as black and white as that. Look at Girlyman and Horus, they both embody aspects of the Emperor with Girlyman reflecting the noble, compassionate aspect and Horus embodying pure ambition and desire to rule

>>53814485
>it does seem like Black Library's "Primarchs are only a tool, Emperor never thought of them as sons" opinion is now functionally the new canon.
Ironically, RG is treating the Primaris Marines the exact same way.

>>53814491
I wonder if Emps was pissed about Ynnari and if Bob asked why xenos resurrected him and told him about origin of Chaos instead of father.

>>53814372
>>If the Emperor Himself stood up, thought Guilliman, came down off His golden throne and proclaimed 'I am not a god!' then they would burn Him as a heretic.
He's not wrong.

>>53814647
Well, he demonstrably is since he's said the Emperor's not a god multiple times and they didn't burn him. Unless the M41 Imperium now holds Primarchs in higher esteem than the Emperor. They'd probably ignore him like they did Guilliman, or insist "Only the Divinely Humble would deny Divinity" like the proto-cults did in the Great Crusade.

>>53814534
IIRC the watchers and the grand master communicate in "total secrecy", because of the highly sensitive nature of the topics in question.

this is all 6th/7th ed codex of course. I have it nearby if we really need to go down that road.

The chapters were created because at the time, small mobile forces were necessary to bring the imperium to stability after the heresy.

He didnt intend to have them like this forever.

During the indomintus crusade he technically commanded half the Primaris marines in a legion strength unit called the Greyshields. They would eventually be dismantled but clearly he has no problem being a "warmaster" level commander if the need required it.

>>53814443
Shit, thanks anon!

Is there anywhere i can start reading the whole of the 40k lore for free at least regarding the Primarchs and the horus heresy and such?

>I heard
It's never true. People shit false information all the damn time for attention.

>>53814190
>and apparently he talked about the Imperial Truth a little while after he woke up. It did not go well. At all. Hoooly shit it did not go well.
Can I get an example of what happened?

>>53815073
It's never said exactly what happened, just that Guilliman realises now that mentioning it was a really bad idea in the modern Imperium.

>>53814395

I think a good foil would be Khan, Russ and/or Corax coming back. Basically uninterested in empire building, they have their vengeance and churn their area's resources towards enacting revenge and blood feuds despite Guillimane's attempts.

Lion is sitting pretty with a giant Dark Angel legion appearing and disappearing on a whim.

Vulkan is being bitter and cynical hammering giant weapons in a volcano.

>>53814491
>Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star
Looks like the Emperor IS going to become the Star Child after all.

>>53814491
>The Emperor did not love his sons
>his sons
>They were things. Guilliman, all his brothers, were nothing but means to an end

See, its very obvious that even the Primarch still feel human enough to consider themselves as people and want familial relationship. Love really. That's a very basic human principle that even the most augmented superman killing machines would want.

You know, if the Emperor really wanted ultimate weapons and not sons, its a pity he had to keep them as human. If they were soulless machines or unfeeling rocks, they'd have been more loyal. But then where would the human ingenuity come from.

Still I wonder if he could have done some neuro super emperor science to get rid of the parts that made them want to feel human or at least the parts that desire human familiship and love. He clearly didn't expect or need the Primarchs to want love.

>>53815211

My head canon is that the primarchs have the elements of the Emperor within each of them and that includes his emotions and feelings.

>>53813146
It's like you don't want street cred

>>53815171
Khan is actually extremely level headed, but he knows that the only thing he's really good at, and the only thing he really LIKES to do is conquest, so he does that
He'd honestly be a good compliment to gulliman, one guy to take shit over, and the other guy to actually RUN things they took over

>>53814540
>>53814587
Never underestimate.

THE WILL TO DOMINATE

>>53812820
>I should not have done it. I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was following the Emperor's wishes, letting men rule the affairs of men. After I implemented the Codex Astartes and split the Legion, I thought it impossible for a force of one thousand battle-brothers to effectively govern such a large realm [talking about the Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar] and perform their primary duty as guardians of the Imperium. My Legion was gone, and I did not want the Chapter that continued their traditions to become insular. They would have been distracted, perhaps never left Ultramar, had they Five Hundred Worlds to govern.
>I did not wish to set the precedent of Chapters of Space Marines ruling large portions of the Imperium. What good would it have been to remove the use of Legions from potential tyrants, only to turn the legionaries into tyrants themselves? By His actions, the Emperor made it clear that governorship of the Imperium was to be undertaken by mortal men, not by the Adeptus Astartes. If the Ultramarines were left masters of the Five Hundred Worlds, it opened a potential avenue of corruption. I would not have the existence of Ultramar be the spur to the creation fo a thousand small empires, because I could not trust the Adeptus Astartes to replicate what we have at home. Warriors make poor lords. The likes of the Empire of Iron was the more likely outcome than a crop of new Ultramars.
>And yet I return to life and find the entire Imperium a prison for its people. By avoiding one problem, I created another. If I had left Ultramar intact, more worlds would have been havens from such pain and remained centres of reason. A bigger beacon burns brighter. I should have left it whole, as an example of what can be.

"Space Marines should be running the Imperium." - Rowboat A. Girlyman, somewhere(?) in the millenium of Our Lord The God-Emperor of Mankind M41-M42

>>53812820
I can't see how because a lot less chapters have went heretic than legions would have as any part of a legion doing so would probably condemn the whole thing and all founding chapters except the dark Angels have stayed loyal.

>>53815278
It's a shame Khan is the most unlikely of the surviving primarchs to get a 40k appearance outside of maybe Corax. Even Dorn is more likely and he's commonly considered boring as sin.
I mean, Lion and Russ are sure bets, but Khan? Barely anybody cares about White Scars and I'm sure GW want the model to actually sell.

>>53815315
>Dark Angels
>not MOST LOYAL

>>53815211
You mean like the butcher's nails on angron?

>>53815353
Except without the whole "ANGRY ALL THE TIME" and also the "its going to actually fucking kill them"

>>53815318

I understand this from a business perspective which is a shame. Khan is one of the only Primarchs that made it out of the HH without looking like a cry baby or a fucking retard. Plus Asiatic techno super humans riding bikes like the mongols is still a cool thing that exists in 40k.

From a lore perspective they could have had a hook where Khan, having spent so long in the Webway has it fully mapped out. While still dangerous, it could have been a great direction during a time of warp storms and a split imperium where Khan leads his progeny on a crusade to carve out an Imperial usable webway to connect Imperium Nihlus. Meanwhile the Dark Eldar and Chaos elements make this a three way war in the webway as Eldar and Harlequinns try to play off every side.

The other primarchs don’t really have much else going for them.

>>53814443
>https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By9476h8G4T_alhFam1Oby1Xc0E

Thank you!

>>53815377

Well theres the whole unresolved Fallen thing for the Dark Angels. Although how many could there possibly still be?

I really dont see what the Lion would want to do once waking up. Its not like the Dark Angels and sons ever stopped hunting for the fallen.

Corax could be back with Primaris V2.0, Maybe a Ferrus Manus clone escapes, Vulkan prob could armour entire chapters in terminator armour.

>>53815034
40k wiki

>>53815394
That's the thing about "Legion" we don't know how many there were. Millions?

>>53815417
>That's the thing about "Legion" we don't know how many there were.
We know that the Ultras were the largest legion at the time of the HH with 350,000 marines.

Pretty sure the next HH book has the DA in so we'll get their exact numbers then.

File: e0510ba2e68f9f2e461b60eb25ffe11b.jpg (249KB, 900x1164px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 900x1164px

>>53815394
>Vulkan prob could armour entire chapters in terminator armour.

I want to see Vulkan and an entire chapter of Terminator marines go on a "Martian Crusade" whose only goal is to work with the Adeptus Mechanicus to safely investigate, repair, and catalog all of Mars all the way down to the Void Dragon's Chambers.

Mars is a gold mine of technology and hidden STC's buried under mountains of damage, technological monsters and rogue defense systems. Imagine the potential befit there would be if a whole crusade was spent to defrag and unfuck that big computer archive planet.

It would be like a space hulk game, except its Mars and a whole planet and is an entire chapter lead by a Primarch instead of a squad.

>>53815211
So the Emperor wanted to make Necrons?

>>53815456
Practically it seems. Necrons whose only purpose was to defend humanity and serve him as ultimate weapons. None of that "love, family and human desires such as a need for faith and self actualization" stuff so common to humans.

>>53815468
And also looked like super humans cause surely the best weapons are humaninty perfected except the parts of personality people generally associate with "humanity"

The emperor wanted the perfect human weapons, who weren't really "human" inside

File: 17203026_1590772800952417_7758757047442481508_n.jpg (80KB, 704x705px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 704x705px

>>53812820
"cawls blasphemous hordes"

i still dont want to believe he meant the primavera maroons with this. but there is nothing else he could have meant. for me this was basically the most shocking moment of the book.

File: 1371250292898.jpg (9KB, 302x225px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 302x225px

I want to read the newest Novel but does anyone know how many pages it has etc?

They don't give any information except the discription.

>>53815476
I agree because it makes little sense to the overall story. For starters he asked for Cawl to make them and he waited for Big G's ok to activate them. So bizarre response imo.

And 'blasphemous'? Really Bobby? Drinking that Imperial kool-aid already?

>>53815477
about 400 like average black library berk

File: 1372936705924.jpg (43KB, 300x265px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 300x265px

>>53815504
Thanks.

File: ZÜNFTIG.jpg (42KB, 644x593px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 644x593px

does anybody know when we can expect the next novel that moves the timeline forward?

i have read probably dozens of black library novels but i must admit finally moving forward was unbelievably exiting.

>>53815377
I don't disagree, but, as you said, business comes first and I don't see them wasting effort on models barely anyone needs.
On a general scale I'd seperate the remaining primarchs into three categories as to how likely their return is, assuming the confirmed dead ones do stay that way.
>sure bet
Russ, Lion
>maybe
Dorn, Vulkan (though Dorn is more likely than Vulkan);
>not in a million years
Khan, Corax
If they *do* revive dead ones, it'll be Sanguinius in the 'for sure' slot.

That said, Khan and Ferrus were the ones that have come out of HH the least ruined, and Ferrus only did so because he got murdered early enough, so they'd actually be quite interesting in 40k.

>>53815476
>>53815497
They're blasphemous to the Martian Creed.
It's not very damning coming from Guilliman considering he doesn't believe in a god.

>>53815473
Honestly that would have been the best plan. Take some humans remove much of the humanity and turn them into walking toasters. If he did this he at least would have avoided horus.

>>53815497
Could be ironic? IE: they are blasphemous by AdMech and probably Ecclesiarchy standards if examined closely.

>>53815580
>>53815596
I can see literally everyone else thinking they're blasphemous yet they dont seem to care?

Bobby has no reason to think they're blasphemous yet he is bothered by them?

Seems like a throw away line that wasnt vetted properly to me.

>>53815497
The fluff from the starter box mentions that Rowboat did not anticipate the sheer scale of the project and the number of changes Cawl would make when he comissioned him to start the undertaking. He didn't expect anyopne to be actually able to do too much with the fragments of the Emperor's data he found, so he's actually kinda quite unsettled by the success of the magos, though he obviously still makes use of the results.

>>53814656
Guilliman is trapped in a grimdark Life of Brian. "He's not the messiah, he very large mutant."

>>53815611
G-money actually only expected a couple of squads of slightly improved marines out of the project, not a legion-strength force of outright better super-marines.
>Source is the 8th edition box Space Marine mini-index.

>>53815611
>Bobby has no reason to think they're blasphemous yet he is bothered by them?

He can recognize that they're blasphemous according to a religion without caring. I could buttfuck a pig on top of a pile of Qurans and recognize the action as blasphemous despite not being a Muslim and not caring about blasphemy.

Guilliman doesn't say he's bothered by them, he just admits to himself he doesn't love them as a Father should.

>>53815618
>>53815639
Thats actually fucking hilarious. Goddamn I love Cawl.

>>53815476
I think it's the first hint that he's going down that same path as the emperor. But he isn't trying to pretend he loves them as sons, they know he's doing everything because all he wants is to save the imperium. One of the primarines actually thinks on exactly that.

>>53815639
What new organs do?

File: 1497295423863.jpg (425KB, 1199x800px) Image search: [Google]

425KB, 1199x800px

>>53815667
At least he has eldar waifu instead of old geezer and mute soul drinking whore.

>>53815211
My headcanon is that the Primarchs' souls are slivers of the Emperor's own. In making them he had lost consciousness over his whole self so had little control over the final product.

>>53814524
>>53815394
Anyone else think the Lion waking up is how the Imperium is going to go to shit?
He wasn't exactly trusting or stable before his adopted brother and half his legion turned on him.
He's going to wake up in a future that's nightmarish even by his standards, his descendant chapter having acting like complete retards for 10,000 years and a primarch he was always at best jealous of trying to tell him what's what.

>>53815669
They're only mentioned as improving their resilience further, no idea what they actually do.

>>53815725
>He wasn't exactly stable
?

Who thinks Lion El'Jonsen is going to forcibly remove Guilliman from his office? During the Horus Heresy it was clear Lion didn't like Big G's new Imperium project.

File: 20131015-lion-bar-post-thumb-610x215-358875.jpg (48KB, 610x215px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 610x215px

>>53815793
i guess we wont see him so soon.

>>53815793
Rowboat's been hiding references to Second Imperium, I don't think he wants people to know about it and has no plans on trying it again. That might assuage the Lion somewhat.

File: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, HORUS.png (566KB, 486x602px) Image search: [Google]

566KB, 486x602px

>>53813146
>In less than a year people born in 2000 will be posting on /tg/ as 18 year olds

It's over lads

>Lion acting like a bitch

What else would be new?

>Avoids most of the most major battles of the Heresy
>At the end comes out with less than 1/2 of their legion mysteriously
>Have some dark secret shame
>No one puts two and two together

Why is this still a secret? Every chapter had loyalists and traitors in it.

>>53815872
Not the Dark Angels. How dare you even suggest that?

>>53815729
I seem to recall he decapitated one of his own men with a stern backhand in a moment of anger.
He was also just suspicious and autistic to an unhealthy degree.

>>53815872
>Avoids most of the most major battles of the Heresy
That's not his fault, it's part of the original conception of the HH. Roboute and Lion were the same it's just they forgot to retcon the Lion's doings as much as they retconned everything else.

>>53815821
>has no plans on trying it again.

"Look, I just want to use a Legion created for me that's loyal to me to rule in my father's name, reform all the major institutions of the Imperium and put Space Marines under my command in charge of the humans, this is COMPLETELY different to that other thing I would have had to cover up. Not that I did anything. At all. Why are you looking at me like that?"

>>53815872
You know the episode of Spongebob where Spongebob and Patrick steal balloons on Free Baloon Day and spends the rest of the episode freaking out and wracked with guilt despite knowing else a) knowing or b) caring? It's a lot like that. Lion's always had a bit of the 'tism, so he and his marines probably care a fuckmore about it that anyone else.

Also originally the DA's having traitors was unique to them; legions either went balls deep to chaos or stayed loyal to the man. While recent retcons might make more sense realistically (out of hundreds of thousands of marines per legion, not a SINGLE ONE went against the grain?), it did kind of bork DA's lore and one of their major characteristics.

>>53815793
Gman is in charge by the will of the Emperor.

>>53816007
Also in all fairness, he didn't expect Cawl to produce a fucking LEGION of Primaris. He was expecting squads, maybe a couple hundred at most.

>>53814443

Asked in numerous threads for this.

Thanks!

File: 776.jpg (432KB, 867x1300px) Image search: [Google]

432KB, 867x1300px

>>53815431

Techpriest are sitting there and sending countless expeditions to the depths of mars all the time.
The progress achieved in 10k years shows how much of a success it has produced.
But still the idea of leading a squad of mechanicus assets inside the mars tech vaults sounds like a fun setting idea.
Space hulk 2- martian expedition does not sound bad.

>>53815660
dark imperium made me love cawl to
that machine he built is hilarious
Furthermore, I consider that guilly should change his title and that archmagos Belisarius cawl should be made fabricator general of mars

Lets not forget the secret communication device Cawl built for Guilleman which he thinks is basically an AI.

>>53816173
This was honestly my favorite part of the book. Cawl you magnificent bastard.

>>53816173

No its just really well programmed :^)

>>53816173
>>53816179
What was the description of the AI like? I've heard a little bit about it and was thinking of trying to make a model of it as an objective.

>>53816024
>after 10000 years, the Lion makes his journey to Terra
>throws himself at the feet of the the Emperor, guilliman and the high lords
>tearfully confesses his dark secret to them, puts himself at their mercy
>"yeah we all kinda knew, can you stop teamkilling please"

>>53815860
well people from 1998 can post now

>>53816351
>Everyone in the imperium knew
> and the eldar
>and the dark eldar
>and the orks
>and the tau
>And the necrons
>and the tyranids
>in fact, every living thing in the galaxy knew but most people didn't talk about it since they knew what the dark angels did

File: Cawl.png (1MB, 783x798px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 783x798px

>>53816173
>when you resurrect one of mankind's most dangerous ancient foes by making one of the abominable intelligences -the same kind of devices that helped kick off the age of strife- then hook it up to the demon filled warp and give it a copy of your mind, all just to use it for private interstellar messaging

>>53816391

Cawl basically made a warp fueled, sentient AI programmed Snapchat

File: 1458245193298.png (226KB, 468x345px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 468x345px

>>53815860
>it's been almost 10 years
>or maybe more
>don't actually know at this point

>>53816391
>when you're actually a creation of the Void Dragon

>>53816037
With no witnesses to confirm or deny Guilliman's word. Though a primarch like Roboute is a better leader than the High Lords.

>>53816117
>Techpriest are sitting there and sending countless expeditions to the depths of mars all the time.
At very great danger to themselves and often met with failure or disaster as much as success no? As in sometimes they end up dying with the future of the Imperium or an STC in their hands trapped miles below the surface.

>>53816457
The Custodes follow him.
They wouldn't without the Emperor's approval.

>>53816565
Often is not term correct term. Always is the better one.
As far as i known no tech is discovered by the martian expeditions. Those stc fragments that are discovered are always off world.

>>53814269
I really fucking loved how brutal Typhus was with Mortarion, and how it hammered in how much of a shit Morty is.
>You are a trophy.

>>53816603
Land brought back some shit from down there and a few other excursions at least returned, though admittedly half-mad and badly mauled.
That said, anything below the uppermost layer is utter death to everything. Land managed get further down than anyone else that survived, but even he only barely scratched the surface of the Martian underground zones.
Considering all the bad shit down there, from malefic AIs to sentient production plants to techno-organic virus shit, I'm surprised anyone actually wants to go down there, idealism or not.

>>53816631

Morty is the absolute worst.

He didnt willing enter Chaos's embrace, was a little whiny bitch and joined the heresy because of tyrants, mutants and psykers. Really fucking good job there Morty.

>>53816692
Yeah, thats the reason there are giant explorator fleets searching for not fucked up sources of tech.
But for those techpriests sitting their asses on mars and doing not much other than maintenance and martian politics the lure of the depths is always there.

>>53816692
>I'm surprised anyone actually wants to go down there, idealism or not.
Yes, but imagine if you did have the massive force of Astartes to overcome those difficulties, what wonders and technological marvels could be brought.

I always wondered why the Emperor didn't try it at least once during the Great Crusade, the Techpriests of mars would have loved to have even a chapter of Techmarines at their disposal.

>>53816748
>was a little whiny bitch
>joined the heresy because of tyrants, mutants and psykers
>Really fucking good job there Morty.
Does that mean the God Emperor is Rick?

File: roboute_and_mother_by_sallar47-db19ehe.jpg (109KB, 1183x676px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 1183x676px

Next book Guilliman will cry about how his miss his mommy.

>>53817758
Were primarchs really normal infant sized when born and not like huge?

>>53817851
Yeah, they just grew *very* fast.

File: mad beyond.png (547KB, 374x667px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 374x667px

>>53814491
NO
FUCK BLACK LIBRARY
FUCK THOSE FUCKING EDGELORD KEKS
I COULD LITERALLY WRITE BETTER BOOKS BY WIPING MY ASS AND PRINTING IT
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>>53814491
So what you're saying is that people can interpret that scene in multiple ways that fits with their vision of the fluff?

How is that not the best possible outcome?

>>53817897
>EDGELORD KEKS
>In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war

>>53814491
This entire soap opera horseshit is the greatest atrocity that came out of the Horus Heresy. The primarchs act like retarded teenagers, not like the conquerors, kings and superhumans they are. They are right to call the Emperor Capital F Father, as their creator, and love him as the paragon of humanity. But this entire shtick about familial love and scrambling to get daddy's approval is so god damn stupid. Especailly Guilliman of all people. He HAD a family, he HAD a loving mother and father, he just discovered that he had a greater destiny and had been shaped by the will of mankind manifest.
God damn, I hate the Horus Heresy and any retard that writes or reads it.

>>53818233
Honestly the greatest issue with 40K is likely the baggage they stuck with the Horus heresy early on. They should have just kept that as a few lines of lore and got onto the galaxy being screwed over.

>>53817936
There is one interpretation but Imperialfags are total assholes about it.

Look guys the Emperor does not care about the Primarchs or men. We have known years ago when EVERY single man and woman who knew the Emperor on a personal level saw him as a cold bloodthirsty bastard.

The final fight between Horus and the Emperor is being rewritten to feature this fact. So congratulations, Imperialfags, you are rooting for a guy worse than a thousand Hitlers.

>>53818383
To be fair, what is a thousand Hitlers compared to the Alternative? Humanity dying in its cradle or being another Chaos playtoy.

>>53818226
>what makes this setting so grimdark isn't just the current state but the fact that there was a genuine messiah dawning in a permanent golden age in the past, and now he and his works are a cruel mockery of themselves, and the cherry on the top is the desperate hope that there's a chance he could come back and fix everything
>so obviously we're going to fuck everything about that up as much as humanly possible

>>53818383
>t. Chaosfag

File: 40k truth.jpg (134KB, 900x829px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 900x829px

>>53818383
>you are rooting for a guy worse than a thousand Hitlers
>t. the definition of a c u c k
>guy rises up to save humanity from total extinction
>wants absolutely no personal gain, everything he does is to insure the future and supremacy of the species
>in the end sacrifices everything and is stuck in the worst torment imaginable forever just to continue insuring the species' survival, even while being forced to watch all of his works and dreams perverted and twisted and the brutality, hatred and ignorance he sought to cull becoming the norm
>''WAHH MUH DICTATOR HITLER''
Kill yourself.

>>53818383
Okay lets have a run off of people who persobally knew the Emperor and were immune to his psychic bullshit that made everyone worship him

Alivia Sureka : She was an ancient companion of the Emperor who accompanied him from Terra to Molech and stayed behind there to guard the Gateway he used. She personally hates the Emperor for creating the Space Marines which are horrible killing machines that reflect the Emperor's true nature.

John-G : Met the Emperor personally and had a conversation with him about the future of their "kind". John views the Emperor as a bloodthirsty and monstrous bastard.

Olly Pius : Perhaps as ancient as the Emperor himself, this ancient views the Emperor with the utmost contempt . He says in any other circumstance he would not bother with the "thing" people call the Emperor. However, despite being a total cunt he is a better alternative than them (Chaos Gods) so he grudgingly sides with the Emperor at least for now.

tl;dr the Emperor is not a good person. Never was and never will be. He deserves worse than death for what he has done.

>>53818479
You

see
>>53818526
Nobody hates Chaos more than the True Perpetuals which the Emperor was a part of.

And all the known one see him as a total ass. The goal does not justify the means. His mistakes that were spawned by hubris and monstrous cruelty can not be excused.

The Chaos Gods are victims to their nature. The Emperor choose to be an evil cunt because he found it practical. Because he could.

>>53814491
I like how this is basically how the Ruinous Powers see their champions too

>>53818526
>She personally hates the Emperor for creating the Space Marines which are horrible killing machines that reflect the Emperor's true nature.
What the fuck is he supposed to reconquer a shattered humanity across the length and breadth of the galaxy with in order to start bringing them into the Webway? Love and puppies?

And Grammaticus is on board with the "humanity needs to go extinct" Cabal idiots so fuck him.

>>53818526
>muh special OC donutsteals from BL ''''''''''writers'''''''''' are a better case then the mans actions
Again. Kill yourself.
>Sureka
Holy shit what a fucking mary sue, complete with ''muh emotional powers''. Seriously. Fuck the concept of perpetuals and fuck the writers. Typical mary sue writing and you retards eat it up.
>muh special OC character is immortal and has special OC powers and knew The Emperor way back when and sees him as an equal which makes him better and more open minded then the rest of the setting lololol
Seriously, this is the equivalent of some asshole writing Bible fanfiction and putting in characters that knew God before he created everything and are all special and have edgy powers and are independent and give the lowest common denominator perspective of ''fuck the majority, we da free tinkaz''. The fact that this level of ''''''''''writing'''''''''' was actually printed out and that there are ''''''''''people'''''''''' that accept it is beyond mind boggling.

You know who is an ACTUAL FUCKING OLD SCHOOL OG CHARACTER who knew Big E? Malcador? Malcador who had more wisdom, power and knowledge in a pimple on his ass then all 3 of those shitstains in the sums of their beings. And what was old Mal like? He respected Big E, valued and served him, was his BEST FUCKING FRIEND and gave his life and his very being for him in the very end.

Fuck Black Library. Fuck perpetuals. ESPECIALLY fuck Sureka. Fuck you.

>He deserves worse than death for what he has done.
>saves humanity from literal hell and gives it a chance
Should have known it was you, Carnac. Kill yourself you stupid shitstain and end all of our miseries.

>>53814114
>All my brothers are dead
>Fuck you, if I want to build my own empire, nobody can stop me!
So glad he's the one we got back.

>>53818631
>And Grammaticus is on board with the "humanity needs to go extinct" Cabal idiots so fuck him.

Actually, he betrayed them and they sent his time travelling assassins after him. The last we see him of I believe they caught him and will force him to do their bidding somehow.

>>53818526
Grammaticus almost pissed himself just remembering what he glimpsed behind the Emperor's glamour thousands of years after the fact, so the implication is that there is something unsaid and unfathomably "different" about the guy.

>>53818563
>chaos dindu nuffin
>from my point of view the emperor is evil

>>53818652
>muh BL

And entire post gets thrown into the trash. I can't be bothered with this.

>>53818685
You should throw yourself in there as well, cunt.

>>53817758

His mother was pretty badass, probably my favorite character from unremember empire after Curze.

>>53814485
Main problem with 'Primarchs are just tools' is that we REALLY need to re-do the 'death of Horus' scene at this point, because no way would Emprah pull punches against Horus (or need Beloved Sanguinus's death to shake him out of it.)

>>53815967
All these dark angel posts are making me lose my sides

Well done lads, well done.

>>53818684
That's not what's being said.

>>53818681
John-G even after his transformation is still a human after all. He didn't know the Emperor before Molech.

>>53818720
Pious is probably gonna stab him with Anathame after he wrecks a non-holding back Emperor. How is he gonna approach this literal physical god? They'll pull something out of their asses. Watch them retcon the council of perpecucks put Big E on the Throne against his choice, thus robbing the entire mythos of the setting of anything it had left.

>>53818720
Isn't it all but a given?
also the two lost legions were actually female legions with grill primarchs

>>53815660
Im assuming order 66 will happen

>>53818696
No.

>>53818755
i doubt this sincerely

>>53818772
Yes.
>supporting literal fanfiction '''''writing''''' because it suits his edgy misanthrope agenda

>>53818526
It's strange how Píos hates the Emperor but was a veteran in the Imperial Army.

>>53815611
>>53815658
Yes, Guilliman is using Satire here.

It's like if he were to say "I must refrain myself from speaking of the "blasphemous" Imperial Truth these days."

>>53818845
It's REALLY strange how they managed to ruin one of the best bits of lore with making Pious go from probably the most inspirational figure in the setting and the absolute best example of why is The Guard so beloved to an edgy OC.

>>53818881
A regular guardsman being part of the thing was nonsensical the very second they changed Horus and the Emperor from big ol dudes to hyperpowered demigods that could crush mere humans with sheer presence and the site of the battle from the palace to the barge. Why the fuck would a regular guardsman ever be part of the final assault? Let alone not be instantly twisted into a wobbling mass of tentacles by being in the same room with Horus?

>>53818881

He probably was one of the easiest character to ruin. Any characterization pulls away from the sacrifice of the semi-anonymous base line human charging at triumphant chaos empower Horus standing over the broken Emperor.

>>53818881
That's what I don't understand. How can these people have come into 40k, reading the background for the heresy and then decide to take a hatchet to it? Why couldn't they just tell the story we were given that provides the backdrop for the tragic ruin that the Imperium has become.

>>53818383
>Hey, this is a big game that can encompass a lot of different view and themes, can't we just-
>NOOOOOOOO!!!! I'M RIGHT I'M ALWAYS RIGHT!!! (*holds breath until turns blue*)
Way to fight against the 'Chaos just has daddy issues' stereotype there

>>53818988
You could EASILY come up with some half-assed explanation. 40k runs primarily on rule of cool, the whole reason HH is hated so much is the autists tried to micro-manage and explain everything. Shit, i'll come up with a reason right now.
>was part of the fleet
>happened to be on Vengeful Spirit when shit hit the fan
>hid away in the vents
>so insignificant no one looked for him, survived on rats or something
>saw the final battle
>Horus still had to waste quite a bit of power on the holding-back Emperor, also all his focus is on his
>Ollie does his duty and he holds the fucking line
Obviously there's a ton of holes in this as well, but who gives a shit? It's awesome, and that's what matters? Now, if we had Olly actually impact the fight in any way beyond his sacrifice finally snapping Big E out of his melancholy, there would be a problem. But just demonstrating his courage, the courage of all mankind, and getting obliterated on the spot having contributed absolutely nothing to the fight yet being the irreplaceable participant that decided the fate of the war and the future of the galaxy? That's fine by me.

>>53819027
This. Just imagine the entire scenario.
>Ollie is all alone
>The galaxy burns
>he has seen horrors beyond his worst nightmares
>The Warmaster, the first among The Emperor's sons has rebelled with half of his brothers and brought Hell itself to mankind
>Ollie sees Terra itself is under attack
>he is afraid
>He sees an Angel call Horus to answer to his crimes just to die as messily as any guardsman
>he is afraid
>he sees The Emperor himself, whom he fervently believes is God incarnate (even though he knows he shouldn't) be beaten and ruined by the laughing warp-fueled monster that his son has become
>he is afraid
>Horus takes a moment to gloat
>Ollie is afraid, everything he believes in is shattered, all his hopes gone
>he charges the demigod without a second though, he does his duty and he holds the fucking line
HOW CAN YOU FUCKING RUIN THIS

File: 1491805331899.png (3MB, 1536x2048px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1536x2048px

>>53818988
>A regular guardsman being part of the thing was nonsensical the very second they changed-
Having the human soldiers of the imperium look up to a supposedly common soldier who gave the ultimate sacrifice for his Emperor is a completely understandable myth. Pious himself was never even part of the original story (nor were the Blood Angels, for that matter. It was just the fists and custodes who went with the Emperor to the final battle).

Saints aren't always going to be based on real events or people.

>>53819028
They use it to write their fanfiction and deal with their daddy issues.

>>53819088
Explain how he doesn't immediately die by virtue of being in the eye of the perfect shitstorm of Chaos, the one place in the universe where all four great powers agree for once and funnel their power into. Rule of Cool doesn't go so far, saying "Well this dude walked into a running nuclear reactor and stabbed it in the dick because that's cool" is just plain dumb. A guardsman can't Hold The Line against a fucking star crashing into the planet. This kind of stupidity is exactly what turns 40k into the handwavy shitshow it is, everyone always wants to have their cake and eat it too. You can't write moderate levels of Chaos of being so dangerous and corrupting that it can mutate and twist Space Marines on the spot just by ambient radiation and have a regular fucking human being stand in the presence of the greatest avatar of Chaos that ever lived.

>>53818988

I could have gone with a loyalist officer hiding in the Vengeful Spirit since the purge in Isvant III. But if you write about how he survived so long in the shipyou can see the sacrifice happening a mile away and lose impact.

>>53819198
Have him be a blank. Case closed.

>>53818988
>He wasn't supposed to be there. It was an accident. He'd hidden, struggled, avoided as best he could the mighty Astartes as they struggled about him. Small, so easily unnoticed. His mind assailed by horrors, yet he held his ground, he staggered on. Because his duty required it of him.
>He finally reached it, perhaps an aimless wander, perhaps fate. Warmaster Horus. Arch-Traitor. The Emperor of Mankind, in all his golden glory. He has to do something. He's small, he's weak, he's as nothing to these godlike forces. He sees the great wings of Sanguinius, crumpled and broken upon the deck at Horus' feet, a vision of unimaginable pain etched upon his face. What am I even doing here, he wonders.
>The Emperor staggers. Horus looms, mighty. Can he do something to stop Horus? Anything? He doesn't know. But he has his duty, and he will do it. And he dies standing.

>>53819198
Pariah gene.

File: trazyn haters.jpg (117KB, 900x1273px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 900x1273px

Would Cawl and Trazyn make for best friends forever?

>>53818810
No.
>>53818845
He had memory problems. He only recently remembered what he was.

>>53818685
not an argument

>>53819054
It's right because the writer says so. Eat a dick.

>>53819220
>>53819243
But then he's not a regular ol' baseline human anymore, which is what allegedly is bothering people about the changes.

>>53819179
Myths and legends are fine and well, but a lot of people want him to be objective truth.

>>53819222
>when /tg writes better explanations for characters than BL
why are we cursed withour current edgelords that maim the franchise?

>>53816631
Isn't Typhus just a champion? What's to stop Morty from killing him?

>>53819315
>but a lot of people want him to be objective truth
and those people are dummies

not quite as fucking dumb as the people who turned him into an immortal übersoldat who knew the emperor personally and was also at the somme, but still

>>53819315
No, what's bothering people is that he's suddenly this OC faggot who lived forever and knew Big E way back when and is totes enlightened and introspective you guise, not like all these other sheep, fuck The Emperor amrite?

>>53819345
Typhus is a badass. He's basically Nurgle's Abaddon but without the fail. If Morty decided to kill Typhus I don't think Nurgle would like it very much

>>53814656
>"Only the Divinely Humble would deny Divinity" like the proto-cults did in the Great Crusade.

Reminder that Jesus resisted divinity for a whole and really never outright said he WAS the messiah, but did play along with things once it was clear they weren't gonna shut the fuck up

His vague dodgy responses are even still in scripture. Apologetics attribute this to the fact he was walking eggshells around the Romans and Pharisee's as it was not yet his time and he had teaching still to do

File: 40k Pert and Mort.png (734KB, 1062x625px) Image search: [Google]

734KB, 1062x625px

>>53816847

>>53819315
Pariah gene making you a blank still leaves you more or less baseline human in every fashion except that.

Hell, are there stronger or weaker forms of the pariah gene? Just give him a mild one if there are.

>>53814615
>Ironically, RG is treating the Primaris Marines the exact same way.

People have noted that. I kind of feel bad for the Primaris. Nobody likes them and they just want to help.

>>53819393
There are, bit weaker pariahs get overwhelmed and die from too much warp.

>>53819370
Why doesn't Nurgle make Typhus a Daemon Prince?

>>53819393
>are there stronger or weaker forms of the pariah gene
Not them but the strongest I know of is Black Pariah of which there is only ever been one. Was turned into a chaos assassin as I recall who was suppose to kill the EoM.

>>53815312
>"Space Marines should be running the Imperium." - Rowboat A. Girlyman, somewhere(?) in the millenium of Our Lord The God-Emperor of Mankind M41-M42

Is he wrong? I mean really, looking at the track record?

It's essentially regression back to a true fuedal system and will make large scale cooperation a bitch, but maybe the Imperium was never meant to function as one enormous entity anyway? I feel like it's Balkanization is inevitable. If it can break down into autonomous and friendly sub kingdoms ruled by literal god-men, united by some sort of common philosophy LIKE A GALAXY SPANNING RELIGION MAYBE, it could protect humanity as a whole long enough for them to complete evolution.

Remember, the goal is/was/always will be to keep humanity alive till they finish their psychic evolution at which point they will be able to collectively resist chaos on their own

File: 1445355716147.jpg (744KB, 1003x1599px) Image search: [Google]

744KB, 1003x1599px

>>53815639
>>53815660
>>53816160
Cawl is fucking hilarious, literally NO SENSE OF RIGHT OR WRONG the character.

>>53819438
For the same reason Khorne, Tzeentch and Slaanesh don't make Kharn, Ahriman and Lucius into Daemon Princes.
in-universe: they don't want to lose their souls/gods enjoy having top-tier mortal champions already on pair with Greater Daemons
irl: badass mortal Chaos Champions are a must-have in fluff, also makes them more appealing.

>>53816449
>implying Cawl isn't a fucking shard of the void dragon trying to free the rest of himself

File: 1437568810306.jpg (57KB, 384x353px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 384x353px

>>53817758
>not missing your mommy

faggot lmao

>>53819515
Cawl's character is probably the best new thing to have come out of 40k in recent years.

>>53814491
How is Emps on the Golden Throne if he didn't love his sons?

>>53819593
because he loves mankind as a whole, not individuals.
see >>53814566

>>53819631
Then he should have had no qualms with snuffing out Horus in an instant. Because what is Horus compared to the survival of the Imperium?

>>53819646
Which is why the fight will be retconned.

File: 1449016100447.jpg (149KB, 967x826px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 967x826px

>>53819519
This of course is one of the grand ironies of Chaos worship, and the grand ironic tragedy of the traitor primarchs. Once the gods make you a Daemon Prince, you forever lose any autonomy you had, and it's essentially them going 'well you aren't useful to me anymore but you might be useful again someday and i'm too bored to kill you so here'. Then you get to live a bitty, empty, meaningless existence as an undying warp spook, never able to resolve the issues that drove you to this in the first place, or you go so insane you lose sight of what you were in the first place.

Fulgrim went from a cultured perfectionist to a mindlessly hedonist six armed fuck slug

Mortarion fucked about trying to find and destroy the soul of his baddie daddy for a century, found him, and keeps him in a jar to torture him but still doesn't feel fulfilled

Angron is forever trapped where he can't fight new people, and is STILL tormented by visions of suffering and murder despite not even having a fucking physical body for the nails to affect anymore

Magnus has been completely consumed by petty revenge and abandoned his dreams of culture, understanding, and progress for REEEEE FURRIES GET OUT FUCKING CHADS and has completely given up on saving his legion

Pertuabo has been obsessively building for a millennia but his buildings will never be used by real people and he's still a bitter miserable fuck

Curze an hero'd

Horus is kill

The only one really LIVING THE DREAM is Lorgar, who never wanted anything more than to be God's cock sock

>>53819198
>Anon explains that the problem with HH is autists feeling the need to fucking micro-manage everything
>Another anon shits the bed by autistically micromanaging everything
Watch the last 20 years of lore drift play out in micro, here.

>>53819739
Don't forget Alpharius! He seems to be doing alright for himself as well, back in the Imperium, leading a new generation of space marines.
No seriously if they pulled that how much *worse* would it make everything?

>>53819778
Anon, we will be getting loyalist Primaris from traitor legions soon.

File: magnus on space wolves.jpg (134KB, 601x500px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 601x500px

>>53819739

>petty revenge

I dunno about that

File: 1bdd95f615e4c623d83f22eaf0c4d456_5394[1].jpg__thumb.jpg (27KB, 400x455px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 400x455px

>>53819778
I didn't mention Alpharius because he was never a traitor

Also I am Alpharius

>>53818563
Please please please don't pretend that the chaos gods are victims somehow. That's just utterly insane. They are fully sentient beings. They exist because of their facets, they are fuelled by it. It is their nature to feed on carnage and corruption.

They are utterly irredeemable.

>>53815504
Was it really 400 pages? It didn't feel that long

File: 1495160289233.jpg (33KB, 480x380px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 480x380px

>>53819739
>Kurze an hero'd

>>53819593
BL's getting to that apparently. But if you don't like BL's shitshow, there's plenty of people who would tell you Guilliman's just getting M41 Emperor's feelings, and that doesn't necessarily reflect who he before 10000 years of eternal torment and unending war with dark powers.

>>53814485
>the emperor seeing the primarchs as tools is the new canon
>new canon
>new

How new are you?

Threadly reminder not to engage Carnac. He's a troll, he's not here to discuss the fine points or perspectives of 40k fluff, he's here to incite.
He comes here to post inflammatory and/or extreme posts for (You)s, to call people who take the bait liars and assholes for more (You)s. He'll never leave so long as he's getting (You)s. Come on people, this has been internet 101 since the 90s.

>>53820106
I honestly don't think he's a troll. He's so unabashedly, uncompromisingly pro-chaos and stringent about it, that I'm pretty sure like TIDF (who might have been Carnac come to think of it), he's playing a role. This is an RPG board after all.

>>53820166
>Mfw pro Chaos unironically but I don't try to pretend it's a good guy or "the true heros all along" kinda shit

>>53820166
>like TIDF (who might have been Carnac come to think of it)
no might about it, it's the same guy

You can even bait out the old 2011-12 TIDF arguments when fluff threads about the tau pop up.

>>53819167
>Be Black Library

>>53820189
I like Chaos too, but I don't like a lot of what GW's been doing with the HH or Chaos. Though the thing that really gets me is removal of undivided stuff. I got into Chaos because the warp could do any number of whacky things, and while that's still the case, I feel like GW's been restricting it lately, and making more and more stuff fall under one of the big 4 solely and directly. Taking chaos out of chaos, so to speak.
But then I'm a subscriber to the everything is true philosophy REEEEEEEE and I don't mind a bit of rules homebrewing REEEEEEEEfor the RPGs. So it doesn't bug me too much. People on /tg/ get riled up too easily, I swear. People in general get riled up too easily these days.
The one thing that reall threw me for a loop though, is that some guy tried to tell me that the "Everything is true" philosophy leaves nothing to discuss about 40k canon. Which blew my mind. How does shouting at each other 'I'm right, you're wrong' in a circle, provide more discussion points, than debating why you think a new or old piece of fluff is better than its counterpart. I don't see how it opens up far more room for discussion. But I just realized I got carried away on a soapbox, so I'll get off.

>>53820301
The one thing I can give BL is their commitment to 'everything is semi-canon.'
It gives the authors the freedom to basically write whatever they'd want, however they'd want to. And even if it's not what I was looking for, it can be handwaved as 'eh, something like that, call it 80%.'

File: based carnac.png (55KB, 776x163px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 776x163px

>>53820106
>>53820166
>>53820234
>they don't know

>>53820478
Just ignore BL. If it doesn't show up in the BRB or in a codex, it doesn't exist.

>>53820189
>''Humans are meant to be base savages enslaved by their primal urges and momentary whims ORDERFAGS GET THE FUCK OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE''
Every Carnac discussion ever.

File: keikaku.jpg (26KB, 640x477px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 640x477px

>>53820497
How have I been so blind?

>>53819936
Khorne cannot be calm. Slaanesh cannot be chaste. Etc.
The Chaos Gods cannot go against their nature. The Emperor choose to be a murdering bastard out of his free will which the Chaos Gods lack.

In his way, he is worse than the Chaos Gods. Because he confirms that Drach'nyen is right.

>>53819275
There is no need to be an argument against ad homs.

>>53819370
Tychus was defeated by a random Emperor's Children Chaos Lord.

File: 18424131_10154384321015919_8917982825911033635_n.jpg (43KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 960x540px

>>53819914

>>53818233

Thats the one thing i didn't like about the HH, apart from some rrather lame novels.

Sanguinius crying about being alone and having responsibilities while he tried to suck Rowboats cock - who was busy bickering with the autist Lion. The whole Unremembered EMpire cycle was just so bad. Teenie emo bs.

Primarchs that seem to have a real job, Dorn or even Lorgar, were much more straight forward and believable. But when they tried some deep character story bs with those three emos it just failed.

>>53817758
Dont give them ideas.

>>53819936
>giving (you)s to edgy misanthropes
Just let it go, man.

File: IMG_2340.jpg (26KB, 460x423px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 460x423px

>>53820527
I'm of the mindset of controlling Chaos ala warpsmith kinda shit. It's why Abbadon is cool, because he hates Chaos and the big four but seeks to use their power for his own gain. Making chaos submit to your will

>>53821209
>controlling chaos
No, it really doesn't ever work out this way. It's the monkeys paw...you may think you are, but only because it lets you. Binds are eventually broken, all seals degrade, and chaos is just that...chaos

>>53820527
Wrong, you idiot. Humanity doesn't need to submit to Chaos. Humanity be destroyed for the singular most HEINOUS and EVUL act in existence which the creation of Drach'nyen.

No race that's responsible for blackest of evils should live let alone rule the galaxy.

>>53821265
Drach'nyen is a minor chaos entity in a sea of beings just like it. Warp beings are created all the time through minor events, mass killings, etc. They are only unique in that they are not alligned to the big 4 at all.

File: Archaon vs Ingax the Solar Drake.png (3MB, 1319x1600px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1319x1600px

>>53821258
Objectively wrong.

Archaon in fantasy and AoS has total Dominion over Chaos to the point that he is called "Master of Chaos". He is not its slave, he is its Lord and Master. The Chaos Gods are his partners (against their desire and will since they cannot destroy him).

Archaon is a man. So if he can do it, then anyone can do it.

>>53818720
About the only way I could see it working is if it turns out the Emperor has been suppressing his humanity to do what needs to be done; lying to himself that the primarchs are JUST his tools in the Great Work, etc. He jumps at the chance to gank Horus and end it, but when the time comes he can't.

Because beneath the immense power, there is still something human in him. And Horus exploits that in their duel.

At least that's how I'd do it. We could bring back the fluff about Ollanius Pius in some form as the final catalyst.

>>53821305

How can Archaon be so metal when Abaddon is just a bitch?

>>53821305
Archaeon is literally the Everchosen...that IS his job. The Gods left the relics for their inevitable champion to appear. Belakors job, after his imprisonment, was to find and crown the Everchosen. He is their partner based on THEIR choice to do so. They cannot emerge in this universe and thus have to have a champion to be their emissary.

>>53821294
Drach'nyen is unique that it is Undivided. Its essence draws itself from the entire Pantheon. The moment of its birth it reached out and touched the minds of all of humanity across space and time, past, present, and future.

It's a unique creation of evil. So potent that it can stand up to the Anathema in his full power. So horrible than other daemons speak of it in whispers. And it's the child of mankind's EVIL.

If you think it's not unique cite a daemon that shares its power and genesis.

>>53821305
Hell yeah bro, couldn't have said it better. Archaon is the true master of chaos, and why I side with Chaos. Use their power for your own gain and emerge on top

>>53821350
Because Archaon won and got his reward. Abaddon hasn't won yet.

>>53821360
The Chaos Gods warred with Archaon and wanted to remove him from his position since he refused to bow to any of them individually. Archaon smashed their armies, besieged their kingdoms, and fed his mount their daemonic champions.

Eventually, the Chaos Gods were forced to acknowledge Archaon again as their Everchosen.

>>53821350
Because GW keeps pulling the rug out from underneath Abbadon at the slightest hint of him being successful because of imperial fags whining

>>53821361
Drach'nyen, like the chaos gods, is tied to a very base and deeply enrooted emotional basis. Basically every murder committed by mankind is a prayer to it.

It's powerful because of this and feared by daemons (or more specifically the big 4s daemons) because it is extremely powerful. The chaos gods are not real "gods"...they are daemons of immense power. Daemons which, like Drach'nyen, feed off very basic and widespread things. If you fed off any time we greedily did something for pure personal pleasure...you'd be pretty strong as well. But daemons can be born from any event...just most of the "biggies" are going to be taken by now.

>>53815681
fuckin' Lorgar!
(I love this piece)

>>53821415
Stop talking about gay ass sigmar fluff.

>>53818383
>Imperialfags, you are rooting for a guy worse than a thousand Hitlers
>thousand Hitlers
>Bad

>>reddit

>>53821415
>The Chaos Gods warred with Archaon and wanted to remove him from his position since he refused to bow to any of them individually. Archaon smashed their armies, besieged their kingdoms, and fed his mount their daemonic champions.
Is this AoS based fluff? Since old world fluff has always said that the moment Archaeon was given the Crown by Belakor...Chaos was united with him. Warbands have opposed him, but that's easily citable as chaos testing their own champion. War breeds more war.

>>53819778
Actually, I wonder how they'll do the Guilliman and Alpharius thing. Considering how Guilliman doesn't seem to think much him when compared to his other brothers.

>>53814656
Guilliman probably only revealed his thoughts to higher-ups who need to be less-fanatical to do their jobs effectively. When I read that it sounded like he meant if the Emperor spoke before a crowd of average faithful, which seems far more understandable.

>>53814479
>I hope Corvus shows up and loses his shit over Primaris Marines

"BAWWWWWWW! You stole ma shtick!"

>>53816457

The custodes know.

>>53821305
>>53821415
>Implying Archaon's going to have that position forever

It's only a matter of time, Anon, one way or another.

>>53820106
who the fuck is Carnac?

>>53819978
This.

The emperor was nearly killed by Horus, and has been strapped to a galactic-scale psychic mind-rape machine for ten fucking thousand years.

Of what little he had, he's not gonna have much compassion left.

>>53820478
Honestly, it's the only way they can do it. How else could a dozen authors all have fluff that matches perfectly without any contradictions?

>>53822668
He's the anon who formats all his posts the same way, uses the same screencaps when he deigns to use them. And is militantly pro-chaos and pro-black library. Once you know what to look for, you'll find him in almost any 40k thread that's been catastrophically derailed. He's also fond of the words "asshole" and "liar".
It's a testament to his autism that he's posted so much about the same things that people are able to recognize him without an official name.

>>53822716
He willingly told them what to do to make the golden toilet into the stasis machine it is now.

The current story, which is ancient, could work if you replace the notion of the Emperor not fighting back from "loving his favorite son" to "kinda given up hope."

He's pretty depressed after Magnus basically destroys mankinds best hope for survival. He is already confined to the throne to keep the portal closed and knows Malcador will not last long (not mortal will). So, maybe, he doesn't truly fight with all his might. Then pops in Oli or random guardsman, or whatever and realizes he can still do something for the future. Blams horus and is entombed in the throne. Knowing this is the best shot mankind basically has now.

>>53819936
Chaos is a religion of peace shitlord!

>>53822751
>people are able to recognize him without an official name.

People call me Carnac at times, yet I am not. Carnac is just a boogeyman.

>>53819515
he sounds really sexy too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMCTbIH924k

>>53815729
It's like with Leman Russ. Russ was a civilized man who played at being a barbarian, but the Lion is a man who plays at being a noble lord to try and transcend the fact that he's legitimately disturbed, psychologically.

>>53816692
Wasn't Land killed on another expedition below the surface?

>>53823292
It's unconfirmed, but at least he went missing down there.

>>53818881
He's an edgy OC now? I've not really been getting that, from what I've read.

>>53815477
7 pages.

>>53821319
>Emperor has been suppressing his humanity to do what needs to be done; lying to himself that the primarchs are JUST his tools in the Great Work, etc. He jumps at the chance to gank Horus and end it, but when the time comes he can't
This is how i felt from the start.
>i can end this easily
>i shall handle the sixteenth
>fate of humanity over a single tool
>*sees what Horus has become*
>Son...no...

I like how Guilliman's kinda got a sidekick each time, who's some firebrand he finds refreshing by being a free thinker.

Thiel, the innovative and spirited Sgt who went against the grain to save the day.
Sicarius, the bold and brash young commander with potential if molded properly.
Ventris, the very free thinking captain who kept getting himself into shit.

Guess they get to play Malcador.

>>53823262
>Russ was a civilized man who played at being a barbarian
>he was only pretending to be retarded
>this is what dogfuckers actually believe

>>53823439
The base trait of that entire perpetual crew is
>as old as The Emperor, knows him from way back when
>super introspective and a free thinker, not like all these sheep REEEEE
That ALONE is fanfiction-tier writing. The Emperor is the most mythical figure in the setting, and one of the main contributing factors is his great age and mysterious past. So of course these assholes need to add a bunch of special snowflake OC's who are just as old as him and have special snowflake powers and will be the first to tell you ''fuck The Emperor wake up sheepie REEEEE''
I already said this, but it's like writing Bibble fanfiction and having character who are as old as God and knew him from before he created everything and have special snowflake powers and are soooo smart and wise and everyone else is dumb and talk shit about Him constantly and wake up sheepie REEEE

>>53822766
Maybe it's something a lot more base, and perhaps even more human than that.

Emps has given up all hope, as you say, because he's realized that things are pretty much past the point of no return. The webway project has turned into an extradimensional sinkhole that's never going to close and requires constant attention to keep from ripping open like an overused butthole, the Imperium is in ruins, and most of the tech they'd spent the last 200 years recovering has been nicked by crazy techpriests.

So when he fights Horus, his heart's not in it. What's the point? Even if he wins, there'd be no going back to what was. Might be better to just let Horus put him out of his misery.

Then Horus ducks out of the fight for a moment to obliterate the most unfortunate guardsman in the universe, who's just wandered in here by accident.

And this enrages the Emperor, making him decide that yeah, the Imperium is doomed, humanity is probably beyond saving, but he'll be damned if he lets Horus win.

>>53822766
>>53823644
If you're gonna take the ''his heart wasn't in it'' approach, the reason he decides to fight back when he sees Horus kill the guardsman is because he finally understands that even if there is no hope, even if all logic goes against it, mankind will fight to the bitter end. If only a fraction of humanity is as brave and as defiant as this guardsman, no sacrifice is too great to give them the slimmest of chances. The guardsman basically gives him back his resolve, and more importantly, hope.

>>53823480
anyone got those screencaps where the primarchs wrote Father's Days cards to the Emperor before the Heresy? I loved the one from Horus. broke my heart, too

>>53823604
Pius is not a free thinker. He is a christian.

File: BLWritingDarkImpArt.jpg (82KB, 1000x427px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 1000x427px

>Finally, exclusively on Warhammer Community, I can reveal to you right now that this story doesn’t end with Dark Imperium. The novel is part one of a series, so there’ll be more to come from me on the matters of Guilliman, Cawl, the Primaris Space Marines, and Mortarion.

He better include Yvraine next time.

File: Fedora.jpg (209KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 960x720px

>>53823852
>Pius is not a free thinker. He is a christian.

File: lel.jpg (65KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1024x576px

>>53823852
kek

>>53824057
>>53824068
>Exactly one minute apart

You're not fooling anyone samefag.

>>53813146
Look at this Narc.

>>53824119
I don't think he was trying to hide it.

dear god that nerf gun knife fedora combo. kek indeed

File: the state of (you).png (7KB, 405x124px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 405x124px

>>53824119
>m-m-m-more then one people couldn't p-possibly call me out on my shit
Absolute kek

>>53824119
>>Exactly one minute apart

That actually tells me it's not the same people, since I've often made two responses in a row only to have lag make them a few seconds over one minute apart, or a poster interrupt my chain.

>>53814395

I don't know if this would really fit in fluffwise, but I think it would be REALLY interesting to see one of the Primarchs come back and totally feed in to the whole religious thing. Maybe... Lion El Johnson? I don't know enough about his fluff to know if that's totally out of character for him but I would like to see one of the Primarchs come back and be like, yes I am a divine being! and the other Primarchs really can't do much to deny him since everyone in the Imperium already believes it.

>>53814442

I think only by the cults on Mars. Not the Imperium as a whole. Pretty sure the first "divine" mentions was during the crusades after he already went back to Terra but before the Horus Heresy was full blown. I'm pretty sure they go into it quite a bit in the Horus Heresy book Fulgrim

>>53819378
Ok. Iam at work so cant give you the verses but Jesus on multiple occasions specifically pointed out his divinity. He even tested/quizzed the disciples making sure they realised that.

>>53824551
Matthew 16:15-17

>>53824519
Lorgar.
He gets everything he wanted including flaggelating himself for daring to question his father

>>53814992

I don't know if that's "Warmaster" level though. Horus literally commanded all military aspects of the entire Imperium.

I think for now RG is the highest authority since he's the only Primarch but that's only until the inevitable return of the next Primarch.

>>53815211
I feel like the Primarchs desire love, affection, and "family" much more than the actual space marines though... who are, or were, actual human beings to start with. I find that a little strange.

>>53824731
Assuming you're serious, how would they BEGIN to pull that off?

>>53824731
There's a teeny-tiny, widdle problem with that, though.

>>53824842
From the teasers GW have put out it seems the Lion will be next.
There'll definitely be a bit of bad blood between him and Bobby G but I'd say he'll keep his Lord Commander position while the Lion becomes close to a loyalist warmaster.

>>53824915
But most of the Primarchs that lived or are alive have been fatherly to their sons, that's the difference. They had their Primarchial father to look after them. And they have each other as brothers. The Primarchs were often busy on crusades and shit.

Except Angron but Angron is always Angry. Maybe Conrad Curze cause he was too busy shitting his pants.

When Magnus said "you are all my sons, born of my blood" he meant it. Even to the literal walking ash urn rubricae who had no consciousness.

The Emperor did nothing of the sort.

>>53815618
There's no way Cawl is just some random magos. There's gotta be more to him than what meets the eye.

>>53825315
>raised Horus as a kid, read him books and threw stones into a lake with him, generally spent what could only be summarized as ''father son time'' with him
>didn't want to kill Angron (don't give me that ''use the tool while it works'', anyone could have seen he was a ticking time bomb. Emperor absolutely didn't lack Primarchs or soldiers, what's one legion more or less? It was pure fatherly love that kept Angron alive)
>when he met Corrax he instantly read his mind and all of his experience, yet he still spent hours attentively listening to Corvus telling him his life up to that point (which The Emperor asked him to do, and kept asking question about seemingly insignificant details, events and people that only held value to Corvus)
>was so proud of Fulgrim and his legion that he renamed them ''Emperor's Children'' and allowed them to bear the Aquila
>didn't have the statues of traitor Primarch's destroyed during The Heresy, just covered up
>the whole thing in the final battle with Horus
There's plenty of stuff like that in the fluff, '''''writers''''' just choose to ignore it.

>>53825315
>>53824915
I think Astartes get by by having a close-knit group of comrades who act as family to them. they are superhuman, but they have peers with whom they can bond and share their thoughts, doubts and convictions with. also, they will always have others of similar ability to have friendly rivalries with.

the tragedy of Primarchs is that apart from their brothers who were always busy with far away conquests, they had noone like themselves. and even they were worlds apart in their ideas and ability.
apart from the select few to share genuine friendships among themselves, their ambitions and the drive to prove themselves sparked non-that-good-natured rivalries with their supposed brothers.
the Primarchs were singular entities in their own right, and therefore hopelessly alone throughout their lives.
[spoilers]well, except for Alpharius[/spoilers]

there was a thread a couple years back around Christmas, I think, where some writefags wrote Emperor's Day greeting cards from the Primarchs to the Emperor, and there was one from Horus, supposedly after the Emperor made him Warmaster and then left him to handle the crusade all by himself, and it perfectly illustrated the desperation and loneliness of Horus, and the fear that he'll never live up to his Father.
it was only a couple of lines, but it was beautifully heartbreaking.

I've been scouring the archives for a while now and I cannot find it :'(

>>53825569
things like this is what made me fall in love with the Horus Heresy. it pains me so that they fucked it up so bad.

>>53825595
the golden men were gone way before that.
the only golden men left were the Emperor and the Perpetuals, but even them were a breed apart.

>>53825576
>exception Alpharius
It totally counts as masturbation and not incest if its your clone, right?

>>53825569
Perhaps, Emps thought of them as tools, as means to an end, when he was making them in the labs beneath the Himalayas, but then once he actually started to find them he genuinely came to love them as his own.

But then when everything fell apart and half of them (including his favourite) turned on him, he went back to thinking of them as tools in a "how could I have been so stupid" form of spite.

>>53818383
ADB please go and stay gone

>>53825742
>Perhaps, Emps thought of them as tools, as means to an end, when he was making them in the labs beneath the Himalayas, but then once he actually started to find them he genuinely came to love them as his own.
I like this idea. Consider that he's an impossibly old, impossibly wise being that's known nothing but solitude and isolation (fuck perpetucuck council, fanfiction isn't real). No one can possibly comprehend his intellect, knowledge or understanding, and people literally die in a heartbeat from his perspective. Then, when he starts finding them, he sees bits of himself in them, and also, since they can interact on all planes of existence, he is finally not alone.
>But then when everything fell apart and half of them (including his favourite) turned on him, he went back to thinking of them as tools in a "how could I have been so stupid" form of spite.
I'd like to think that the agony he endured is also a factor in this, and that if he were by some miracle restored the second thing he'd do (right after releasing a psychic scream of pent up agony, suffering, frustration and rage that would obliterate most of the warp) would be to go hug Bobby and be all like
>I didn't mean any of that, i was in a bad place, c'mon son you know daddy loves you!
But who i am to hope for anything.

File: 1493783230890.jpg (586KB, 1600x1321px) Image search: [Google]

586KB, 1600x1321px

>>53818383
I am rooting for Guilliman as better emperor than Emperor.

>>53824594
Isn't Matthew a bit of an odd duck among the New Testament Books? Like, it was written decades after the others and included passages and scenes that weren't in the others, mostly the ones claiming Jesus's divinity or saying Jesus claimed divinity. I could be remembering wrong.

File: 1496894107027.png (38KB, 1846x429px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 1846x429px

>>53825832
You've probably already seen this, but I think it offers a sound suggestion as to why Emps is in the emotional state he is by the time Rob comes visiting.

>>53825569
>>53825606
>>53825742
>>53825832

We should remember that this is from the perspective of Guilliman, where on top of everything he has to deal with an Emperor who is now pretty inhuman after 10,000 years on the Golden Throne. It's very likely that Guilliman has his own insecurities and biases colouring his meeting with the Emperor, not to mention that the Emperor has more than likely changed - possibly transcended - while being in a state of limbo on his throne and interacting with the universe primarily through his psychic powers. Who knows, maybe the Emperor would decide he IS a god if he ever got down off the throne? Calling Guilliman his "creation" is certainly more of a god thing than a father thing.

>>53825903
I have, but thanks for reminding me, i lacked context when i first saw it. It's a fair suggestion, but it might be giving a bit too much credit to GW.

File: Agony.jpg (65KB, 750x642px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 750x642px

>>53825953
>there is a possibility The Emperor snapped completely and became a cruel mockery of himself just like all of his dreams and works
>the last hope of the setting might have become what he despises the most

>>53818423
>That not being edgy as hell.

Pretty much 40K itself is edge. It's pretty much only retards that try to pretend it isn't a colossal rip off of better works.

>>53825978
Or maybe spending ten thousand years listening to every prayer for deliverance, mercy, and hope has changed the nature of the man for the better?

>>53825978
He's more of a warp entity these days than he ever was before. Like a partial warp-based entity at least. And we all know what kind of effect quadrillions of human faiths, hopes and fears have on warp entities. I'd be surprised if he hasn't been effected by the warp and humanity in one way or another during his long internment.

>>53823644
>>53823718
Emperor peered further and further into the future and saw that in m41 there will be hot blue bitches and animu mechas so he had to save the galaxy.

>>53825885
Sorry iam not familiar with that. However given that it is written. In the beginning the word was with God and the word was God, i believe that whatever made it into the bible (and iam familiar with the various vatican councils) is the divinly inspired word and is canon regardless of time of writing and the implications that has on believability

>>53826103
He becomes like God from Berserk, a spiteful entity fueled by the hopes that life cannot be so cruel as to be without a proper afterlife, without a reward for all the suffering. His return marks the day that Terra and the Warp are witness to the horror of a father turned into a monster.

>>53826234
Not wanting to seem like I'm getting at you here, but it's a bit more complicated than that.

Bibles have been being written for hundreds of years, in more languages than I can be bothered to remember, and a lot of the time the people who were transcribing the bibles had an agenda they wanted to fulfil. And you can bet they never asked God about it.

>>53826276
All good. There are lots of bible versions you are correct NIV ESV KJ to name a few. However. Modern new testements are translated from the earliest available
greek copies. Cross referenced.

>>53825953
I always liked the emperor as the 5th, chaos god.
A god of tyranny, crushing repression and order.

>>53826353
With things like the dead sea scrolls. Roman census. Other copies

>>53826276
If you are referring to people like Jehovah Witnesses rewriting things to deny the divinity of Christ you are correct. But that is all heresy

>>53826255
Except that IoE exists not because people believe there needs to be a proper afterlife, just that there has to be someone causing all the misery. So the exact opposite of the Imperial Cult.

>>53826366
>>53826353
Oh, right, okay. Didn't know about that. Can I have a citation, just to be sure?

>>53826388
That and stuff like the Medieval monks writing stuff down to make sure they'd get the best positions/be able to sell bits of Saint to people/sell Get out of Hell Free cards and so on.

>>53826364
>5th chaos god
>Represents order
A new kind of stupidity

>>53826406
Fair enough.

File: 1384272999378.jpg (81KB, 875x322px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 875x322px

>>53812820
>ITT there's people that believe the Emperor is an uncaring evil tyrant
I pity the likes of you

>>53826422
I am working on it. Iam on my phone. Citations should exist in study copies of the bible. My study ESV has info on where they pulled it all from. If sources can be found itll negate your concerns about these monks etc.

>>53826422
I cant get a peer reviewed citation on my phone but read the https://www.esv.org/preface/ preface its a start. Also catholics selling indulgances in the middle ages was one of the heresies which drove the reformation

>>53818751
if they retcon it so that Horus was defeated because he got shanked by a guardsman, i don't think il ever be able to stop laughing.

>>53819914
Didn`t Dorn kill Alpharius?

>>53826826
>if they retcon it so that Horus was defeated because he got shanked by a guardsman
The BL writers in charge have made it pretty clear in their other books that Horus lost because the Chaos Gods wanted him to. The HH was Just As Planned beginning to end in their vision.

>>53827011
Yeah, but not Omegron. Guilliman killed him. maybe

>>53827011
Like that would mean anything. If they want to bring X into/back to the setting they'll find a way to do it.

>>53814479
>Be corvus
>Rule over a former slave planet that I freed
>pretty cool
>Space dad comes
>Gives me a legion of super humans to train in stealth
>Treat them like family
>proud native.jpg
>One day space brothers betray me and dad
>Loose most of my supermen
>Feels badman.img
>Ask space dad for his superman notes
>Get it
>Build them quicker than normal
>Almost better than normal
>Dick ass traitor brother sabotages superhuman factory
>They turn into gibbering idiots
>Win a Pyrrhic victory in civil war, most of my friends are dead
>Put down most of my men in pity
>In my depression I leave into gaping reality hole to hunt the rest of the traitors
>Come back
>10,000 years have past
>one bro is back, and the only one
>He had some mortal make better supermen than mine
> They are all infinitely better than anything I ever produced
>No problems at all
>Out done by some normal guy
>Depression returns

>>53814479
>>53821846
>>53827154

The whole point of the Corvus's marines was that they were supposed to be much quicker to produce, not improvements over the originals. Since the primaris marines took 10k years to make, they arn't really comparable to corvus's attempts.

>>53827548
Well we don't really know how fast Cawl can churn them out.

>>53816791
Gosh, now I'm just imagining a small legion of 10,000 techmarines whose sole purpose is to explore and clear the depths of Mars. They recruit only from the Sol system, and all initiates are immediately sent to Mars.

>>53816435
that image. not seeing pete steel instead of that chucklefuck.
>I dont wanna be....I dont wanna be me...I dont wanna be me....anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXIWRan3XGY

>>53817758
He already said he missed his real dad and wondered if he would have abandoned Konor for Big E if he was still alive.