/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53807482
>Ever used a non splat gamebook?

Does gypsies count?

Thousand Years of Night when?

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>>53807482
Re-uploading from last thread.
If anyone has any more Legacy update requests, ask away.

M20 Book of Secrets when?

>>53807482
I used Masters of the Art back in the day during a discussion about arch-spheres

>>53807623
And how did that go for you?

>>53807619
sometime between the heat death of the universe and when Signs of Sorcery comes out

>>53807727
Its out to backers, he means the pdf.

>>53807619
>>53807727
It's out for backers. We're just waiting for someone to de-watermark and post it, so we can argue about things.

So how would a mage from Ascension combat vampires and werewolves when it's either too hard or too easy to even use magic(k) ???

>>53807619
Vanilla (1 pt. Flaw)
Oh my gods, you’re such an innocent! In a world filled with sex magick and power plays, you’re the little lamb who’s strayed far away from home. Jokes get past you, clues escape you, and references to anything rawer than a Disney flick go straight over your head. Maybe you grew up in a secluded place with overprotective parents; or you could be in denial about the things you see all around you because life can’t possibly be that twisted… can it? Regardless, hold firm to your innocence. Once it’s gone, it ain’t never coming back again!

This is a Flaw in m20 Book of Secrets. What a great use of word count qq.

>>53807523
Yes, tell me how it went?

>>53807778
A prepared Mage is the most terrifying thing in cWoD.

Rituals let you roll your Arete up to Willpower+Arete times to accumulate successes.


If you are out to kill a leech, having access to any of its possessions would let you cast any spell with +3 succs to it with Correspondence 2+. This means that you can just sit in your sanctum, perform a ritual over an evening and whack it with 21 levels of aggravated fire damage. Nothing they can do, unless they have Thaumaturgy to counterspell.

In hand-to-hand combat Mind 2 lets you force a frenzy check, Forces 2 can let you fly, turn invisible or increase the difficulty of all attacks against you by 3, Time 3 can give you mega-celerity way beyond anything a Vampire/Garou could ever imagine contesting. So on and so on.

M20 Book of Secrets want.

>>53807762
>de-watermark
How many times does it have to be established that OPP doesn't watermark shit?

Or has that changed since I last bothered worrying about PDFs in these threads

>>53808353
Because OPP would have to pay a guy to watermark stuff and you know they don't do that shit.

>>53807998
Smart mages will utilize existing things, as well. Teleporting a pipe bomb to a vampire's coffin is a pretty easy Correspondence 2/Matter 2 effect.

With a couple dots of Entropy and only a few successes, a mage could redirect a speeding car from the street to the sidewalk where his enemy is taking a stroll.

Spirit 2 lets a mage bump the local Gauntlet rating easily, which stops Garou from jumping in and out. Fire elementals can also be conjured into creation with Spirit 2, and those deal 10 dice of automatic, undodgeable aggravated damage to targets.

>>53808353
Correct. There are no watermarks.

>>53807910
>This is a Flaw in m20 Book of Secrets. What a great use of word count qq.

Any new ttprg culinary advice from SatyrDouche?

>>53807998
>>53808522

Yeah, but how do mages fight 1v1 eh? They can't really. Fireballs take too long.

>>53808606
1. As was covered extensively in the last thread, it only takes a single turn to cast a decently powerful fireball.

2. You can also hold spells for later using Charms or Wonders, among other things.

3. Mages can also buff themselves into the ceiling. The idea that Mages are squishy is a myth, with a few simple Life 2 or Prime 2 effects you can make yourself stronger, faster, and more durable then any vampire. And that's assuming they're not wearing power armor or something equally stupid to make them durable on demand.

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How about playing in a literal World of Darkness?

>>53808606
Mother.
Fucking.
Certámen.

>>53808678
Okay but how do two Mages fight each other? Does it just turn into "whose everything-proof shield wears off first?" Or is it rocket-tag, where the first one to score a solid hit might as well win by default?

>>53808824

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JUlXh7sP8 ?

Well, the new FAQ actually clarified the fireball question to be a lot weaker.

Q: Can I “Hold” the Aimed Damage Effect Indefinitely so That I Can Accumulate a Lot of Successes before the Effect Goes Off?

A: No. An immediate-attack Effect that’s coupled with a mundane attack is an all-or-nothing affair – one roll only . If Agent Adara Okafor adds a Forces boost to a blast from her Bolan Mk. 13 weapons system, the player makes only one Arete roll to determine the Effect. The Storyteller may rule that a damage-inflicting ritual (as in, an attack using the extended-roll rules described in Mage 20 , pp. 538-543 ) may accumulate successes for a greater level of damage. Story-wise, this would represent a curse, a death-spell, a war-machine’s activation, and so forth. In that case, the usual rules apply… though the Storyteller may wish to set an upper limit of one Arete roll for each point of Stamina the mage possesses, in order to reflect the strain of containing such potent energies, and to cap off a potentially nuke-level degree of damage.

>>53808844
It's a mix of the two if they have preptime. It's hurling effects back and forth until you find one they didn't factor in and they explode. Or the Universe / Abyss gets tired of your shit.
If it's 2 Mages that didn't expect the fight to happen, it's retreat if possible and minor effects (removing friction on the ground under them, jamming their gun, shit like that) + normie fighting methods if they can't run.

>>53808844
Pretty much.
Which is why in Awakening 2e the Duel Arcane is essentially play-fighting with imagos, showing how hard you could have kicked their ass, with multiple shots required, given the fact that frequently any one could have been lethal, and they want to see who's actually the best, rather then the luckiest.

>>53807649
we decided to abandon the subject and I have not touched that book since that day

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>>53808844
In Mage the Ascension, everything-proof shields aren't that common and buffs tend to last for a scene or a day or longer, meaning they don't really wear down.

In my experience, most fights tend to revolve around a few concepts.

1. Is there Sleepers around?
2. Does anyone have tons of ranks in Coorespondance?

If someone has ranks in Coorespondance, then usually there isn't even a fight. The second the person with Correspondence realizes there is a threat, he can start setting up preparations to teleport you to the bottom of the ocean or something and you effectively lose right there.

If no one has Coorespondance, generally the winner is either the person with the more preparations [active buffs, Wonders, etc] or the person whose stronger, and it turns into a slogfest or rocket-tag, depending on how defensive the characters are.

Two Hermetics fighting each other in a crowded subway is going to look a lot different then two Akashics fighting at night on a rooftop.

>>53808915
>>53808920
He was talking about Ascension.

Reminder that it's always the husband or boyfriend.

>>53809023
Awakening mages are OP as fuck.

>>53808993
I wasn't specifically talking about Ascension, I'm interested in both.
>>53808915
>>53808920
>>53808974
Thank you very much. That actually does sound quite interesting. I am beginning to better understand what makes Mage fun, when you're facing off against foes with equivalent powerlevels.

>>53809023
The main difference is in Awakening there are far more everything-proof shields, so you have to find his weak-point instead of overpowering his defenses. That and sympathetic casting is easier to pull off.

In practice, Awakening turns into a game of paranoid gods trying to get the other first, preferably from across town, whereas Ascension is more throwing crazy bullshit at each other and hoping your bullshit is crazier.

For instance summoning a bunch of demons and sending them at an opposing Mage but he figured out early and channelled tons of Chi so he could beat up all the demons so you have to plan something else so you teleport him into a volcano but luckily he has the right Spheres to just tank the fire and punch his way out so you cast him into the future where your evil is law.

Am I the only one who disallows held spells and charms in my Ascension games?

Eventually your players are going to curbstomp most everything.
Wizards utilizing contingencies is always a 'no-no' in my sessions.

>>53809078
I allow held spells but I say they still obey the rule about "Only one Effect per turn" and I follow the rule that limits successes from a Ritual to Arete+Willpower maximum.

In practice, it means the only PC who even can store spells primarily uses it to make Escape Ropes to teleport the whole party back to their Node if shit gets too crazy. Annoying, but not gamebreaking.

He could also create ultra-damage effects but he hasn't taken the initiative to do so yet, since he keeps rolling botches on the extended cast and he's afraid of getting any more Paradox.

>>53809078
Holding spells and using Wonders (in this case Charms) aren't the only contingencies available to a competent Mage.

Just imagine an old Hermetic having a score of fire based spirits surrounding his person at all times. No Vampire or Werewolf worth their salt is going to challenge him.

>>53809078
Three (sometimes four) Spheres are capable of "holding" spells/effects. You're kind of being a bitch if you disallow this pivotal part of prep.

Charms are overpowered though.

>>53807572

Forge Masters

>>53808915
Honestly unprepared fighting sounds much more fun to actually play. What m I not getting?

>>53809124
Just hope the shenanigans from my last Ascension game doesn't happen. TLDR my Etherite was a bad influence on the Technocratic defector, we built a dart gun that shot teleporter beacons. Said beacons were keyed to the massive teleporter back at the base and would move the beacon (and whatever poor bastard was stuck with it) 1,500 miles straight up.
It made our GM angry.

>>53809206
Oh it is. But playing magic death chess with another Mage is fun at times too.

>>53809206
Nothing, unprepared fighting is fun.
However not every fight you get in will be "balanced", so sometimes you really do just need an ace up your sleeve.

Ok what are Charms?

Why are they overpowered?

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Signs and Sorcery already has a mistake.

Dont have spells that increase its own Withstand rating.

>>53809225
That's nothing. In my campaign I'm running right now the PCs teleported into the house of a powerful Brujah during the day, paralyzed his 400 lb Mexican ass with an ofuda [Mind] and then when he tried to flee had a high speed chase down the street in broad fucking daylight while everyone's speed was buffed by time.

So you have a Japanese shrine maiden in Sohei armor, a guy who kind of looks like Thor in a cowboy hat, and a horrible deformed fish-man chasing a morbidly obese man down the road at 40+ miles per hour. The chase ended with the cowboy slowing him down with a Jojo pose that turned part of the street into soap, making him slip up and move slower, before ultimately burning up in the sun despite his Fortitude.
>>53809246
Instead of rolling an Effect on the spot, you roll it ahead of time. It replaces all that stuff about the danger of the evil dice with narrative cards that say "He is thrown into orbit now" that you can set down on a whim.

Are there alternate temenos? Like can I travel to the collective soul of dogs, pigs, or cows?

>>53809397
animals dont have souls so no

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Some concept art for the WtA game in E3
http://rpgamer.com/news/Q2-2017/061417b.html

How long until is finally canceled, /wodg/?

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>see all this mage talk
>my only character is a hunter and he gets his shit kicked in constantly
>was going to make a shitpost about how celerity was cancer to fight due to instant disarm, and how much I hated grapple plus bite in the same turn just because the baby shit his pants and frenzied
>mfw mage players are literally talking about teleporting their opponents into the ocean without a hint of irony or humor, but rather just a thing that's a decent one on one strat
>close thread

I think even the anti magic benediction wouldn't do shit for me. -2 to their rolls versus them throwing me into the fucking sun. I don't really get why the splats aren't a bit more balanced around one-another

>>53809246
Charms are hung/held spells compacted into physical form. Incredibly easy to make and produced in batches.

You could have a bag holding dozens of 'fireball marbles' and 'lawnchair pebbles' ready to bombard your enemies with.

I question why every mage doesn't get Prime 2 and just make them every fucking day.

>>53809445
Because crossovers are a mistake. At the highest levels of Mage [either edition] you can create things that would give Gurren Lagann a run for its money.

Even at mid-levels creating a 50 foot magic robot powered by willpower is a completely legitimate [if borderline-suicidal] strategy.

>>53809445
>Fighting any supernatural in a 1v1
>Ever trying to play fair as a Hunter
>Ever trying to fight with any honor outside of playing a fuccboi Werewolf

>>53809504
This guy gets it. Just get your hands on a nuke and pray he's too distracted by a dispute with another mage to care about what your measly mortal ass does.

>>53809445
Is this oWoD?

>>53809534
It's not even a nuke, if it can kill an armored vehicle it can kill a Mage that doesn't know it's coming, shielding practice / mage armor up or not.
Just shoot the fucker with a .50 from across town, hit them with an IED, slip a dolls eye berry extract into their wizard tea.
Don't walk up to a Mage with a 9mm and a sword and go "I challengith ye to a duel good sir." and not expect bad things to happen.
That applies to all Supernaturals really.

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never allow charms in your games

>>53809610
didnt we establish forces 2 makes you immune to all kinetic energy even from a 50 cal?

poison is pretty good though, without life magic said mage is fucked.

>>53809445

Hunters exist to be anally ruined by other splats. This is both Supernal Truth and Consensus Reality - and also thematically appropriate.

>>53809654
Poison that has no symptoms aside from feeling tired and then stopping your heart could catch even a Life Mage off guard.

>>53809621

>Never allow archmages in your games

fixed

>>53807572

Carnival Melancholy, please

>>53809704
People also like to forget the most powerful archmage in canon only had Ent 7 as his best sphere.

Primal Marks (3 pt. Flaw)
You’ve been marked by some god, spirit, myth, or other metaphysical entity… and the mark is not a pleasant one. Maybe you share Papa Ghede’s nasal voice and crude sense of humor, or Coyote’s grotesquely huge cock, or Christ’s bleeding stigmata.
>Coyote’s grotesquely huge cock
>3 pt flaw

>>53808912
Ironic since the book literally says you can do that since if you fail, you can reroll at +1 difficulty.

>>53809861
dude, if your wangus beef terrifies all women who look upon it that are smaller than 6'5'', it *is* a flaw

>>53809876

Where the fuck does OPP post those FAQs?

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>>53809823

Is this bait?

>>53808912

Where the fuck does OPP post those FAQs?

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>>53809666

>>53809980
The unnamed is an Oracle.

>>53809998
It's from the new Book of Secrets. Friend who has the book copypasted it to me. Asked for a copy, he told me off.

>>53809980
The Unnamed is a guy that might exist in a spinoff timeline maybe. He's borderline fanfiction.

>>53810026
Aswadim are nephandi archmages.

>>53810075
>He's borderline fanfiction

Except he's just not. End Times scenarios are all canon if you so wish.

Future Fates is a thing as of M20.

>>53810133

>Not kicking his ass with a fuckton of marauders in that scenario

pleb

>>53810026
Oracles ARE Archmages.

They're the Archmages that glimpsed a taste of Ascension and turned back.

>>53810032
lol dude ask your friend to copypaste it all page by page that's what froends do

>>53809438

Focus is pretty good at seeing things through. It'll make it to completion.

Does anyone have "Infernalism: The Path of Screams" pdf handy?

>>53807538
OPP is kill.

>>53810133
>if you so wish
Okay. I don't wish. My opinion is as valid as yours in this context, therefore he is just fanfiction.

>>53809397
Probably. The Astral Realms sourcebook implies at one point that Werewolves may have their own temenos. I'm sure you can work something out with your ST. Also the Primordial Dream from Beast is a thing.
>>53809427
>animals dont have souls so no
The earth does not have a soul, but the Anima Mundi is a thing.

>>53811899
tenemos != Anima mundi.

Why do you think only a very few select splats get to go there?

There will be catland, pigland n all that shit in the temenos but it'll be the collective imagery of humans that make up the place, not animals.

Why does the sample NPC private eye have a whopping 4 intelligence? Academics have next to nothing to do with PI work.

>>53812222
Perhaps it's for a more Sherlock Holmes type detective instead of Columbo?

>>53809534
>>53809610
>>53809654
>>53809694
This is why Acanthus are the undisputed top dogs and every other path is simply fighting for second place.

>>53812222
Academics is a skill. Being a PI requires intelligence.

>>53812262
I don't think so. The doubles as part seems to indicate otherwise.

>>53812392
Why would a PI need intelligence?

THERE ARE NO WATERMARKS

UPLOAD BOOK OF SECRETS YOU PRICKS

>>53812554
Id like to kindly ask for Beast the primordial building a legend in addition to that

>>53812554
Calm down

So has anyone here read the nWoD / CofD fiction, and if so is it shit? Tempted to give the Mage / Demon short stories a go but if they're M20 / Mobile game tier I think I'll pass.

>>53812969
The Demon: the Descent anthology is good, and the one new fiction in the Werewolf anthology was pretty fun, though I wouldn't call anything in that book good.

Nothing is as bad as the mobile game.

>>53812979
Thanks anon, I'll give it a look.

>>53809445
Because mages in Wod for some reason arent traditional mages at all, despite werewolves being werewolves and vampires being vampires. Their more akin to a Gmod admin than they are to a chanting spell casting mage whom are working out of old tombs and ritual. Instead they poof things into or out of existence as needed.

Seriously why did whitewolf decide that mages are going to be so different from what basically every other form of media views mages

>>53813208
They really are stereotypical sorcerers, sorry.

It just really depends on their Paradigm.

>>53813208
>game based on real world occult philosophies
>think they aren't actual occult magicians

I suggest you actually read into something before you start critiquing.

>>53809445
>teleporting their opponents into the ocean
>minimum of Forces 3 to do at all
>requires contact, an extra Reach, or a buttload of time to do a ritual casting
>definitely risking Paradox
>probably risking wisdom loss as well

>>53813208
It's based off of Gnostic philosophy and mythology you dumb fuck. I don't even play Mage and I know that.

>>53813341
I have never before seem such a dumbfounded comment.

Jesus, are you intentionally acting like a retard?

Reminder that the people who hate on Mage have never actually played it.

Ignorance isn't bliss.

>>53813208
In oWoD they are based on actual occult traditions, albeit they're pretty OP for most traditional magic.

In nWoD they kept the OP but tore out most of the fluff and replaced it with weird Constantine-Gnosticism shit.

>>53813345
What does this have to do with the fact that WoD mages aren't similar to the popular conception of mages while vampires and werewolves mostly are?

>>53813208
It's this odd trend roleplaying games and other media have had for a few decades now: having gods and demi-gods and instead calling them things like 'wizards' or 'mages' or 'psychic'. Maybe it helps the writers and their readers sleep at night or something?

>>53813760
Your idea of mages clearly doesn't correlate with the masses

>>53813760
>Werewolves in WoD being anything like the myths.
Really anon? Really?

>>53813760
If you're talking about nWoD you're right, but if you're talking about oWoD the answer is that the popular conception of mages has nothing to do with actual occultism, and White Wolf decided to base their shit on actual occultism [albeit played up to pulpy extremes] over D&D shit.

>>53813827
NWoD Mages are just as wizardly as their OWoD counterparts, if not more so.

>>53812969
I read a beast story in the anthrology, one by Dave B. Was good but only because it had a mage in it.

Does anyone have the M20 book of secrets? It's supposedly got the shit I need to make an M20 version of my first Mage character, so I kind of want it yesterday.

If it helps, I can promise you there are no watermarks on it.

>>53813341
teleport with forces?

gtfo

>>53813840
Sure, just gotta remember to ignore that OWoD mages are all retarded gods playing dress-up and waving props around.

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>>53813840
They really, really aren't.

oWoD Mages, especially the Hermetics, Choristers, and Verbena were much more occultic and truer to magical lore then nWoD, who are basically Dr Strange MCU-tier.

The fact that their magic can be done without any kind of ritual or foci at all and in fact is usually done as such isn't made up for by High Speech and Yantras being a thing.

oWoD Mages are based in 'real' magic, they're just way too powerful for most 'real' magic. The operations are sound however.

nWoD are basically reality-hackers who, in both lore and the presentation of their powers, is more like something out of Marvel Comics then the Lesser Key of Solomon.

>>53813820
They act like werewolves and look like werewolves, muh Gaia and muh shaman spirit police aside. Meanwhile, some mages may act and look like mages, but most aren't. They go beyond hexes and the like, and instead wield world breaking powers.
>>53813827
Actual occultism is far more ceremonial and ritualistic than the almost finger snapping they do in Awakening. The Tremere from oWoD are closer to real occultists in scope and practice than Awakening mages. From what I read about it I think something closer to Ars Magica could work for Mages, but I'm not super familiar with it.

>>53813908
Like I said, in Ascension its more ceremonial, though in terms of pacing its usually just as finger-snapping.

Its just that instead of finger-snapping its "Speak an incantation while holding up an amulet bearing the Seal of Solomon"

Ars Magica's Order of Hermes actually features in Ascension as a playable faction.

>>53813898
Here we go. Someone again trying to make their definition of 'wizard' more prevalent than the other.

>>53813928
I misread or misquoted you post, sorry. While Ascension isn't the sort of wizard game I'd like to play because of the scope, at least it tries to resemble real occult and sorcerous practices.

>>53813953
Let the magefags fight it out till they kill each other.

>>53813965
It's what happens when they dominate /wodg/

They eventually cannibalize themselves

>>53813983
>>53813965
The plural of wizard is war.

what is swedracula's opinion on mage supremacy?

>>53814095
He probably hates it

He'd probably suck Caine's dick too

How many experiences do rotes cost in Mage the Awakening 2e? It says "per dot" in the experiences section, so to learn a Forces 3 spell would that be 3 experiences, or just one?

>>53814550
1 per rote, you have a old copy or are retarded.

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>>53814574
Def a retard

>>53814574
even the pre-errata version has just 1 per rote. No idea where he is getting per dot from.

Retard.

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Best Mage Path

What is it?

>>53809704
>never allow mages in your games

Actually fixed

>>53812554

This!

Also, Rich Thomas doesn't pay his writers, so it's fine to steal from him. Stealing from thieves makes you a better man!

>>53814990
Tremere.

>>53816014
not a path, the Tremere dont awaken to their own watchtower now do they??

Pick another faggot.

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>never played Mage
>reading through this thread
Isn't this supposed to be a horror game? How the fuck do you even play this?

>>53816079
abyss monsters are pretty fucking scary...

>>53816079
WoD has never been horror as much as it wants to claim it is. It's modern fantasy with the occasional dark and edgy element.
Granted the Abyss in nMage is pretty spoopy but that's like claiming The Witcher is horror because the Wild Hunt is spooky.
Mage is also fairly self balancing despite all the memes thrown about here, go read out lord and savior DaveB's actual plays, Broken Diamond and Soul Cage... I'd also mention The Man Comes Around but it's incomplete and never getting finished.

>>53816119
>our lord and savior DaveB

I will not worship that false god.

A true divine being would have already released the Mage FAQ and finished Signs of Sorcery.

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>>53816153
I'd trade both those things to see The Man Comes Around finished. Man I've been waiting 5 years to find out what happened to the PCs. Then you get cryptic updates on it like "Oh yeah we've been playing way past what's posted, one of the PCs died and we got 2 new players shit's crazy"

What's the point of giving skill dots their own descriptions without taking attributes into account? Why aren't they 1-10 instead of 1-5?

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Now I know the Mage general may be the wrong place for this, but if you sorcerers might help a mere vampire, I could use advice for building a character for dark ages.How viable is making a Vampire Counts necromancer/combat vampire? I know Necromancy is limited in combat when it comes to the final nights, but are the Dark Ages any more open in this regard?
Basically, how hard is it to make an undead horde to conquer the living realms in this age?

>>53816094
>>53816119
The Abyss is cool, but I always thought Mage missed the point of cosmic horror. A big draw to it, at least for me, is the feeling of helplessness in the face of an unknown power, which is hard to do with Mage. Mages have so much power, versatility and access to information do to the nature of the Orders that when the Abyss is scary it is more in a normal horror way when it is scary at all and not just creepy.

I am not saying CofD should go full CoC, but even then it works better for Hunter.

>>53817084
The best thing to do is to switch to Requiem 2E for your mechanics, which will allow you to make excellent use of assorted forms of necromancy - taking an undead bear or lion as a familiar is a thing, and you can build-a-zombie via the unique powers of a relevant bloodline to get yourself started on a horde. Make them infectious and fast and let onslaught penalties do the hard work for you in combat.

Experiment with devotions to switch out "undead bear" for "neverborn abomination."

There's a bloodline for being a shitty half-feral vampire and making tons of other shitty half-feral vampires, but it's not great. Fortunately, you're encouraged to design your own.

>>53813867
Space, whatever, it was past midnight when I posted it
Just pointing out that it's not something every Mage is going to be able to do

VtM 5e playtest is out: https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/06/15/v5-pre-alpha-the-curtain-rises/

Is Fighting Finesse worthwhile or should you just spec in Strength to begin with?

>>53813208
>>53813760
>Werewolves
>Popular conception
What. What?

Garou are half-spirit half-mortal living weapons that work as the antibodies of Gaia to weed out a metaphysical disease infesting her. Lycanthropy is voluntary, hereditary and even still rare, and there is no way you might get infected. They have a sprawling culture that spans to the beginning of time and they might be a little mad but way more heroic than evil.

How is that stereotypical werewolf AT ALL?

>>53816079

You know how the outer gods really don't give a fuck about humanity in Lovecraft's stories, the beings that are avatars of a cold and unfeeling cosmos?

Yeah, well, when you're a mage, they take interest in you.

>>53817134

See my previous statement. The helpless characters are actually protected by apathy and ignorance. Mages don't have that because they aren't inconsequential any more.

At least in Awakening.

In Ascension, the source of horror is also the source of wonder - the fact that reality is mutable. What are the limits of consensus? If everyone thinks I'm an asshole, do I become an asshole for real or am I merely perceived as such? Difficult existential questions should accompany wish fulfillment in any OMage game.

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>>53816079
It's a game about fedoras tenting their fingers and smirking about how clever they are.

"An Abyssal entity? Heh...no sweat"

>>53818866
>This is what vampfags actually believe

>>53818938
Memes and greentext won't help your case, virgin.

>>53818866
>>53818938

Next time some anti-reality horror or old god starts causing chaos, death and destruction, those smug vampires and werewolves shouldn't request help from mages. Let them handle it. Good luck with that.

>Too busy snorting magic coke off the asses of vampire strippers to give a damn

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>>53818962
k

>>53818989
Okay but if you're playing Vampire or Werewolf then your ST shouldn't be using Mage enemies.

Top tier Werewolves can definitely handle anything in Mage, though

>>53819057
SCREE are you even AWARE of the Traditions (of the internet)???

>>53816119
Dark Modern Fantasy, yeah. The designers tried to sell CofD 1e as personal horror, but it never really stuck. OWoD was all over the map with its tone, mostly hanging off of "whatever WW thought was cool at the time." CofD 2e seems to custom fit it's theme to the game line more.

>>53818938
its an accurate description of maybe half of the people discussing mage in wodg

>>53818791
>You know how the outer gods really don't give a fuck about humanity in Lovecraft's stories, the beings that are avatars of a cold and unfeeling cosmos?
>Yeah, well, when you're a mage, they take interest in you.
So? That does not refute my argument, if anything it supports it.

I am saying Mage is bad at cosmic horror and you basicaly said it is bad on purpose, which does not change the fact it is bad at cosmic horror.

>>53818989
>Next time some anti-reality horror or old god starts causing chaos, death and destruction, those smug vampires and werewolves shouldn't request help from mages. Let them handle it. Good luck with that.
You know what the sounds like to me? A fun game. Not that I am saying it would not be fun to play Mage in that situation, but it would be a different sort of fun.

So everyone knows the typical main line power comparison charts, what with the mage shitting on everything, then vampire, then werewolf, then hunters getting shafted every time.

Where do Promethean, Changeling, Geist, Beast, and Mummy fit in? Promethean and Changeling are especially weird in terms of power levels to me.

>>53819290
Mummies are retardedly powerful in certain situations. Geists if properly built, and know how to use their powersets in a clever way are also retardedly powerful

>want to play a CofD game with my usual RPG group
>one player wants to do vampire because it's the only one he knows
>one wants to do mage because he's one of those oneupsmanship mary sue players
>one wants to promethean because they're trans and something something 'muh struggle'
>I want to play changeling cuz I like changeling the best
>our 'forever GM'-type says 'let's do a crossover'
I'm scared that this is going to be a complete nightmare

>>53819391
I hope this is bait for your sake

>>53819437
It's not. I mean frankly knowing how it's going to go from the descriptions in these threads I'm reluctant to even participate but frankly I don't think I'm gonna get a lot of other chances to play a Changeling character.

>>53819391
my condolensces.
How do you start? As mortals that get transformed? Or are all supernatural beings at the beginning?

>>53819476
Get rid of the mage and the angstzombie and you have a chance. Vamps, Changelings, Geists, they can all function relatively well in a party as long as the GM gives you all good motivation.
Prometheans have their "Fuck you" aura that tends to cause problems and Mages, Demons and Mummies are too high powered to work in this splat mix.

>>53819391
Tell the vampire player to learn Changeling
Kick the mage player out of the group
Tell the promethean player they can be an intersexed Changeling with any kind of trauma trigger

Has anyone here played Promethean? It sounds cool in theory but when I think about how I'd ST it I have no idea what to do. I've read that Lace story but it didn't seem that different from what you'd see in the average circle jerk VtM story

>>53819290
Geists have open ended powers and a tough chassis, and can be built to near Mage levels.

Freshly awoken Mummies shit on everyone who is not an Archmage.

A Demon going loud will rip and tear through mostly everything for a scene, but is then hunted by the God Machine until he can get a new Cover.

Prometheans can be built to be retardedly durable.

>>53819729

For the life of me, I'll never get what people saw in the Lace story.

Should I hate V5 or not?

>>53819949

The playtest is out, go make your own decision.

>>53819949
you are on the internet. Always hate things, especially if you haven't played them yet, and call those that still like them retards. It's just etiquette.

>>53819949
oWoD is awful, so yeah.

>>53817692
>The eldest pregen vampire in the module is a Ventrue
>Feeding restriction: children and young adults

Shota sucking cakes, just what the World of Darkness needed.

>>53820028
Kill yourself Fedora mage.

>>53819391
You could've taken the initiative to run a Changeling gave, desu.

>>53820126
I suggested Changeling and they all chimed in with their own preferred product-lines

>>53819555
I mean the Promethean player I'm less inclined to yell at because they're actually pretty dang good at RP so I don't just wanna say 'No it'll fuck up the game'.

>>53819517
Our GM friend said he had 'an idea in mind' that involved the characters being 'old friends' who each ended up falling in with/getting cursed by different supernatural happenings. I have no idea how a Promethean would fit in there so I'm sorta worried, and his back-up is ye old 'cross-game team up to stop a powerful human from tearing away the Mask/Masquerade/Dream/Spooky-dealy-hidey-McGuffin'

>>53819919
I don't remember it very well, it was just a bunch of trannies raping each other?

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I have to run combat for the first time tonight. We're playing owod (project twilight.)

What the fuck do I do? How do I make a monster? How does combat work? The PC's have guns, one of them is a gunperson and I want her to be able to gun and feel fulfilled. The monster has the ability to drain energy- is there a good way to make that work in combat? What are the rules for grappling?

There are like 700 books for this shit and I have no idea where to start. Is there a 'how to combat in owod' infograph? That'd be awesome.

Someone help pls

>>53820548
Oh are you in for it now. Combat is terrible in oWoD TLDR is you roll your dicepool against diff 6, then add your successes -1 to your weapon damage pool, then roll that again against diff 6, then have your enemy roll their Stam + armor against that to soak.

>>53820548
>>53820605
As for the rest of it. I haven't played oWoD in too long to remember how to design enemies or how grappling worked.

>>53820605
>>53820642

thanks

>>53819949
As a game, it axes many of the issues oWoD had. It's fast, narrative and focuses more on risk assessment rather than resource management.

>>53821313

Dunno how I feel about the tables, but it's a pretty clear attempt to reach out to the more traditional gamer so I'll allow it. That "Triggered" joke in the Brujah chart isn't going to age well, though.

Also, while I haven't tested it yet, they may gave straight up made Generation a better system.

>>53819949
I'm not liking the new character sheets, having only 3 attributes really homogenizes characters. willpower dropping to 5 also upsets me. From both a player and dm perspective I hate that botches are gone, they provided some of the most entertaining sessions my groups had

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>>53821691

Then make sure to participate in the survey so that you can actually tell them as much. That's what I did.

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>>53821723
fuckin' anarchs

>>53821723
What really gets me is that joke that not all Brujah are the same, when there are only 3 different fucking ways to make a phy Brujah now

>>53821691
Your specialization and skills matter more, now. It also makes boosting stats (which Vampires can do with a simple Rouse, up to 5) a lot stronger.

Willpower regenerates a LOT faster than it did in oWoD, just read up on Virtue/Vice.

If you roll no successes = Total Failure (very bad consequences, cannot retry) and a couple of 1s on hunger dice, you're in a very similar fuck you land.

>>53821841
Unlike in oWoD where you could bump all physicals to max, the specialization in your physical stat is now the extra dice you get. "All Brujah were the same" because they would bolster their physicals to the same level.

Beckett's Jyhad Diary fucking when?

>>53821941
first bolstering all 3 phys attributes took a ton of xp, so you rarely ran into players with the same exact phys layout. secondly you still had specializations which were arguably stronger because they doubled 10s

>>53821898
But boosting stats was already pretty good as it was, and willpower recovery being fast or slow depended a lot on the storyteller.

>>53814123
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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>>53821964
Wait that's still not out yet?
Wasn't that kickstarted before Beast was a thing?

When's the new hunter book coming out? I an't got time for faggy wizards, bitch boy vampires, or yiffing werewolves.

Working on a Mummy/Demon/Mage crossover set in Damascus tentatively titled 'Damascene steal'. Here's my ideas so far.

A minor order has discovered an artifact with a potent destiny tied to it before they could fully analyze it they were cut down by agents of The Ruin but not before they managed to shunt it an unknown safe spot.

An infrastructure millennia in the making is about to complete itself and the lynchpin has just gone missing. Why are human occultists killing each other over it and why had every angel in the area cleared out?

You've been awoken by some group of thieves that have killed your cultists and sacked your tomb. But they've fled and the trail has gone cold.

>>53822209
Never, but you at least have Mortal Remains in the mean time as a kinda, stop gap for 2e.

>>53822209
WoD is about playing monsters, snowflake.

>>53819067
>Top tier Werewolves can definitely handle anything in Mage, though

Oh please. This is just flat-out retardation. Have fun dealing with sentient alternate universes, mutt puppy.

>>53819290

God Tier
>Archmage

Top Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Middle Tier
>Mage
>Demon
>Sin-Eater
>Mummy
>Werewolf
>Beast
>Changeling

Lower Tier
>Promethean
>Vampire
>Surprised Mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

>>53822500
A Geist that knows how to use their powerset right is probably Top Tier. And prepped Hunter is a solid Middle.

>>53822552
If you're referring to Boneyard, the answer is still Middle Tier.

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>>53822500
>Beasts below Werewolf

SWITCH NOW

>>53822552
>And prepped Hunter is a solid Middle.

If they're only hunting vampires...

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>>53822596
>beasts even on the list
>when clearly the only thing worth playing in the book is heroes

>>53822500
So what makes Archmages gods? Are they really the only ones on that tier?

>>53812406
Deductive reasoning and the ability to outsmart people they're investigating.

>>53822642

You really should read Imperial Mysteries.

All your questions will be answered.

Archmages are in a class by themselves.

>>53822642
They are a separate modified mage template that gets god like abilities specifically unmatched by any other game lines playable characters.

>>53822689
>Deductive reasoning and the ability to outsmart people they're investigating.

In CofD, isn't that represented by Wits, not Intelligence?

>>53822427
But anon, man is the most dangerous monster of all.

>>53822713
It is. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>53819348
My most retarded Geist build had the ability to squeeze all the goo out of a normal person's body in one round. I used it to defang a vampire by dealing many dice of aggravated damage and making his vitae fall out as he tried to run away.

>>53822642
Archmages do things like modify concepts of reality. It's not so much power-wank as it is a philosophical focus at the top of a more puzzle-like game than other lines.

>>53820489
Sounds like your average WoD story to me bruh.

>>53822427
>t. bitchboy

Don't Changelings become True Fae once they become autistic enough?

Aren't they strong enough to challenge an Archmaster?

>>53822642
Immortal and can retoractively change reailty. How else can you call them, really?

>>53822939
Archmages are half immortal. They don't age whilst inside their Golden Roads.

>>53822922
>Don't Changelings become True Fae once they become autistic enough?
>Aren't they strong enough to challenge an Archmaster?

Regular high level mages can deal with true fae (or any mage with sufficient command of Fate). The vast majority of true fae are no match for an archmaster.

>>53822922
Equinox road suggests that autism leads to True Fae, yes. But True Fae aren't autistic enough to challenge Archmasters, since they have highly conditional powers.

>>53822955
>Archmages are half immortal.

Unless they made themselves immortal using the Imperial Arcana.

>>53822032

oh, sure. Everyone had different amounts of str and stam. And 5 dex, if they could afford it.

>>53822981
True

>>53822922
In Arcadia? Maybe. Outside of it? Hardly.
Mainly because in Arcadia everything revolves around contracts, which are set in stound and nigh impossible to change. Archmages' only limit is how much Exarchs are gonna be pissed and how many Ochemata they will throw at them.

>>53822642
They were quite frankly a mistake and something that should never be played much less used in a game. To open-endedly strong to be used without trivializing litterally everything else because their abilitys basically say do litterally anything withou any rebuttal because they say so.

>>53823010
>which are set in stound and nigh impossible to change

Tell that to an Acanthus. They can already defy the entrance agreement by forcing their way inside-and-out of the Hedge/Arcadia whenever they damn well please.

>>53823057
They trivialize the issues of other splats but there is no shortage of conflict once you've obtained arch mastery.

>>53823010
>contracts, which are set in stone and nigh impossible to change
>>53823073

Not without Matter and Fate...

>>53823073
For Fae, I mean.

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>>53823057

I bet you're just jealous

>>53822615
I never understood why people feel this way. A Hero game would just be a Beast-centric Slasher game.

>>53823103
Nope. You only need Fate to tear open the Hedge.

>>53823093

Many people don't seem to understand that Mages and Archmages have their own preferred antagonists at comparable power levels.

They are only purportedly "overpowered" if the intent is dedicated crossover play with other pc's, which is not the driving force behind Mage's game design, nor consistent with its themes.

>>53823073
>>53823137
No you can't. You're not allowed leaving the Hedge, period.

You can't just break its entering contract. Not even if you're a mage.

>>53823137
>You only need Fate to tear open the Hedge.

I was being facetious, although to somehow convert or contain Fate in stone, you would indeed need Matter.

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>>53823154
>>53823160

lol

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>>53822427

>>53809438
>Cyanide studios

Hype was at zero, now its at negative levels
Hell, even fucking Spider would have been better, at least their RPG fuck ups are interesting conceptually

>>53823154
>No you can't. You're not allowed leaving the Hedge, period.
>You can't just break its entering contract. Not even if you're a mage.

Sad. You really need to pay more attention to the Word of Dave.

Fate 3 will open an existing portal, and Fate 4 will create a portal into or out of the Hedge.

>>53823185
>>53823179

Oops. Creating a portal into or out of the Hedge from anywhere is Fate 5.

God fucking damn it I am so glad nMage has an actually sensible system of magic rather than the loose collection of "rules" oMage has

this outburst brought to you by trying to read m20 How Do You Do That

>>53823222
Ascension authors could never properly agree on how to work magic(k)

Damn you Brucato

>>53823183
You just proved that you're a cringe snowflake when just leaving the other guy alone with his bitterness would've sufficed to show his faggotry.

>>53823145
The way I look at it is the same way things work in comic books.

The existence of Dr. Strange doesn't invalidate Spiderman. Spiderman isn't having Eternity over for tea and Dr. Strange isn't spending his sundays beating up purse snatchers.

>>53823258
makes me just want to use Awakening mechanics and never look back.

>>53823383
>Dr. Strange isn't spending his sundays beating up purse snatchers.

Not that there's anything wrong if Dr. S wanted to beat up a mugger, although that would be one unlucky miscreant.

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How did pre-historic vampires not get charred by the sun during the day?

>>53823258
BUT ANON that's the BEAUTY of OMAGE. The mechanics are as fucked up as the Traditions' reasons to work together!

>>53823412
>makes me just want to use Awakening mechanics and never look back.

Take off the Komodo-colored glasses. While Awakening's magic system is MUCH better and definitely more consistent that Ascension, its still has problems.

It was hoped that the Mage FAQ and Signs of Sorcery would resolve many of these issues, but alas, it will be a while until we see either, if at all.

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We hear about shit splats that go together like vamp and mage or mage and anything but mage. So the question becomes, what two splats crossover the best?

My money is on Hunter and Changeling or Hunter and Werewolf. Changeling has a ton of cool shit you can do in the hedge that can work for normies even, just have the team focus more on seeing through tricks and hunting spirits. Likewise for Werewolf, just have the puppo view the cell as his pack, maybe if you want to balance everyone, have him play a less physically focused wolf and you're pretty close to there, provided the other players would be on-board with having Bigby Wolf on their team.

>>53823437
Maybe vampires weren't originally hampered by the sun.

>>53823437
>How did pre-historic vampires not get charred by the sun during the day?

Caves.

Protean earth meld.

>>53823437
Caves, burying themselves, Protean 1, hollow logs, deep rivers/ponds

>>53823471
>>53823482
But who told the vampires that they should be afraid of the sun?

>>53823500
The Archmage. When he made them.

:^)

>>53823471
>>53823482
So their first nights were "You better dig a cave before morning or you're going to turn pretty crispy"

>>53823412
You can. Just get the Translation Guide and backport Awakening's mechanics while keeping the Ascension fluff.

>>53823464
Werewolf in my opinion is now the god of crossovers. Forsaken have goals which are objectively good if you care about Mortals,The Pure offer tons of resources if you are willing to put up with their desire to lord their power around, they offer a long term companionship towards vampires which eases the Requiem, protection to a changeling, and Arcane Insight for a mage.

If your character wants or needs a family for just about any reason, a Werewolf's pack can easily be that family

>>53823523

I'm confident the existence of caves predated vampires.

A sire might actually also plan before turning someone, including doing so in a cave.

Those vampires can be real wily.

>>53823547
>care about Mortals

You're funny Anon, now pull the other one...

>>53823500
In all honesty the first vampire or vampire-like creature probably had instinctual knowledge that they would die in the sun if its accurate to say there was a first.

If Luna decided to antagonize an Archmage. Would other Archmages back him up?

>>53823584
As much as /tg/ likes to pretend that its not the case, most people don't stop caring about Mortals when they turn into something else, and most people do not turn into sociopaths the second they get a modicum of power.

>>53823605
Yes.

Luna essentially broke the Pax. She's finished.
The first offender is usually the one taken out.

>>53823565
>I'm confident the existence of caves predated vampires.
What if there were no caves in the general area? Caves are hardly everywhere.

>>53823383
>The existence of Dr. Strange doesn't invalidate Spiderman

Well, duh. Dr. Strange couldn't even heal Peter's dying aunt's gunshot wound.

>>53823631
>most people don't stop caring about Mortals when they turn into something else, and most people do not turn into sociopaths the second they get a modicum of power.

You character has obviously never attended a meeting of the Mysterium or Seers of the Throne.

No advanced being is subject to the concerns of mere insects.

>>53823605
The Pax Arcanum is sort of like the NAP in libertarianism. So it turns into a game of "who started it?"

If the Archmage did something to piss off Luna and she's retaliating, then the others might even join in because he was being a dumbass and deserves to be made an example of. This is also why all these "I turn Luna into ma waifu" debates are stupid: even if you can, doesn't mean you should.

If Luna decided to start shit for some reason (turning everyone insane), then they will gang up on her.

>>53823605
His Cabal probably would. If said Archmage was a Tetrach they would probably get one of boss's Avatars to stop them from being splatted if they are still important to the Exarch in question's schemes.

Of course all this depends on the question of "Why has Luna decided you are on her shit list". If there is a good reason you probably aren't gonna see much help unless people owe you or you are willing to get wrapped up in the people who help you's schemes for the rest of forever

Now that said, if I remember the benefits of Archmastery correctly you may not be able to be destroyed unless she throws you into The Abyss. That does not mean you can't come out of the conflict worse for the wear though

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>>53823631

>>53823702
Not everyone plays Mysterium, and Seers are supposed to be the baddies.

>>53823708
Luna can't throw you into the Abyss.

She can be forcefully summoned into your Golden Road however.

>>53823631
>>53823702
>caring about Mortals

Obviously one of those bleeding heart Libertines.

I wouldn't be surprised if he even believed that vampires were real people.

>>53823702
So? Silver Ladder members preach that every human is a being who's birthright is Magic, while the Free Council believes that humans are power, magic and creativity and should be cherished.

>>53823733
>Seers are supposed to be the baddies

You might believe that, but then again you've probably never snorted magic cocaine off the ass of a vampire stripper. Sad.

>Join the winning team
>Serve the Exarchs

>>53823547
I have felt the same way for a long time

>>53823654
Maybe. Maybe not.

The Archmaster might even be of the rank (9 dots) to push her back.

>>53823767
>Silver Ladder members preach that every human is a being who's birthright is Magic, while the Free Council believes that humans are power, magic and creativity and should be cherished.

You can cherish humans all you like, preferably like one would treat a obedient pet or valuable possession.

>>53823776
Hey, I can snort cocaine tass off a vampire stripper's ass without being a servant of the Lie.

>>53823805
Or you could cherish them like a grandchild, a lover, a long time friend, a respected peer... you don't have to immediately go into petplay anon

>>53823810
>Hey, I can snort cocaine tass off a vampire stripper's ass without being a servant of the Lie.

My pc has obviously been going to the wrong Mysterium parties.

>>53823877
>Or you could cherish them like a grandchild, a lover, a long time friend, a respected peer.

You could, but why would you want to?

The monkeys and baboons are incapable of understanding or appreciating you.

>>53823932
Cheiron Group parties are better, then the cocaine is made of vampires too.

>>53823605
Doesn't Luna have an easier time of using Transfiguration?

She would be stronger than any and all Archmasters I think.

>>53823776
I played a Hermetic during the Second Masassa War though.

Shit got weird, let me tell you.

>>53823659
Then they burned. What's so complicated about that?

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>>53824007
Influences aren't actually Imperial Practices. Rather mimicking in capability.
She can cast them at will (no ritual) without the need to produce some hard-to-acquire material, in this Quintessence.

Yet even still, the Arcana are far more 'meaty' and broad than the limited purviews of spirits, regardless of rank.
An Archmaster of Spirit needs only cast Transfiguration once to give grant himself multiple Influences of his own, effectively bypassing the current limits of said Practice.

That kind of thing.
Working harder to achieve grander results.

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>Brujah
>1: Triggered. You are offended by something in this scene and react to it with extrovert anger.

>>53824007
Someone with Spirits 9 would just tell her to stop fucking around.

>>53823877
Silver Ladder's own book talks about how for all their lofty morals of universal ascension and enlightenment, there are an AWFUL lot of Sleepers and some can be exceedingly stupid and unwilling to shift their conception to reality to one where they might Awaken.

And that because of this, the Silver Ladder's view on sleepers that they can neither be trusted to determine their own protection, make decisions for themselves, or know what they truly want, can be pretty demeaning.

>>53824007
Luna doesn't have Transfiguration. Rank 8+ Influences are similar, but not the same.

She's also a rank 8 spirit, which means a Spirit 10 Archmage can slap her an automatic ban.

>tfw every thread invariably turns into a mage wank thread about spheres and arcanum.


Has anyone tried running a Promethean game? How was it? Whatwas it like?

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Couldn't an Archmage with Spirit 9 craft a god-killing machine and attach it to himself like Iron Man?

Killing Luna would be easy at that point.

Oh goddamnit. The Luna hating Archmagefags are back

Would a Cabal that goes around promoting drug experimentation, rebellion, and general 'fuck the man' behavior to encourage more awakenings be silver ladder or free council?

>>53824117
Cringe.

>>53822072
>expecting OPP writers to do anything but jerk off all day

If they actually did some work they wouldn't have to crowdfund every single project.

>>53824254
Free Council, without a doubt.

Silver Ladder is more "Awaken after reading our Magical version of Atlas Shrugged"
Free Council is more "fucking whatever bruv, so long as you get there"

>>53823659
Just dig a hole nigga

>>53823500
oWoD the archangel directly tells Caine he's going to burn.

nWoD presumably instinctual

>>53809694
Would something like datura extract work ?
Since it's a delirant (and quite a powerful one), a mage caught off guard would start losing it and would probably not be able to cast spells correctly or simply react appropriately
However if a mage in the throes of a datura intoxication starts throwing magic around, I doubt the result would be safe

>>53824241
How did the Luna vs Archmage meme start?

>>53824198
What's with the obsession with killing Luna ?

>>53824374
She's a slut

>>53824282
Good. I'm putting together some NPCs for an upcoming Mage game. One idea I got is a cabal of Free Councilors raising hell in the more socially conservative parts of town. Which is irritating the hell out of a veteran GoTV Sentinel whose a police officer by day.

But they seem to be successful in causing Awakenings, have the Hierarchs support, and haven't violated the Lex Magica. So officially he can't tough them.

>>53824360
It's the nWoD version of Caine vs Archmage
Naturally the maximum theoretical Archmage wins.

>>53824374
I think it's to spite fans of Werewolf
Or just reinforcing Mage Supremacy for what it is

>>53807966

Pretty good i played a Gypsie mage and used the info on the book to make him as gypsie as i could. PC was that one cool but alcoholic uncle that takes stuff without permission.

I dont care if it's rule supported. Any storyteller is gonna veto killing a god of another gameline and even if he decides to okay it, it bettet be as an objective lesson to why its a fucking stupid idea.

Do you do "spontaneous vampirism" in your nWoD games ? (people who rise as vampires without having been embraced)
If so, how ?
What could explain it ?

>>53824427
Except it's thematically appropriate for Archmages to kill gods in Imperial Mysteries.

Godlike entities being precisely what they're supposed to go up against, y'know?

>>53823950

Found the Mystagouge. Hey, nerd, just because the other kids gave you the supernal swirlie doesn't give you the right to be a cunt.

>>53824429
You don't do it without explanation, that's kinda garbage. It's an open mechanic for a GM to introduce ideas and methods of their own for stories, making the game more flexible. Much like Dhampir being a bizarre rule-breaking anomoly that get statted anyway; it's system flexibility and an expectation placed on any GM that wants to use it.

>>53824117
... except that's the standard Brujah clan weakness, you get buttmad about EVERYTHING.

>>53824263
Crowdfunding is supposed to only support the deluxe editions and extra shit. In practice? Who knows.

>>53824455
Yeah thats cool and all but what reason othet than "hurrrr endgame time to kill something central to a games metaplot" is there to kill the fucking moon

>>53824427
Maybe you're just annoyed that a PC can triumph over the unplayable top dog of another splat?

lol get over it

>>53824198
Yes? But there is still the hard part of getting the proper Quintessence. For a 9 Dot Spell it would be something like like a weapon made from the molten metal from the planet's core in a timeline where Earth and Moon never divided into two bodies.
...All the while Luna and other Archmasters are trying to kill you.

>>53824477
I wasn't going for the "lol just woke up like this" angle, and certainly not for a PC (way too snowflakey)
But maybe for an NPC / antagonist
I guess a curse could do it, maybe being buried in cursed soil ? How about a fresh corpse that gets immersed in / exposed to copious amounts of vitae ?
Do you think that works or is it too far a reach ?

>>53824513
I think we're running with the assumption that the Archmage already went through all of that.

>>53824429
Canonically? You can rise as a Revenant due to one of the following:
Being drained to death by a vampire.
Dying while having Vitae in your system.
Being ridden by a Strix.

>>53824497
Ay, fuck off. You can say you can but good luck finding a storyteller willing to let you fucking do it.

>>53824546
Is that in Blood & Smoke or another book ?

>>53824536
Well... sure. By the same token, once Christopher Columbus reached the New World, stepping off the ship was really easy. Like... you wouldn't believe; *step*; Done!

>>53824525
Yeah I like the idea of a special method producing an antagonist.

That second one works for sure, practically how the embrace works (having your blood replaced with your sire's vitae) but buried in cursed soil or just a curse sounds too lame. You'd obviously flesh it out more than that, but it doesn't sound serious enough to work as-is.

>>53824600
So it would only take a mere motion of a limb to swat Luna like a fly post-Transfiguration?

>>53824583
Blood and Smoke, p.94
>Sometimes, those contaminated by the Kindred bite or Kindred blood die, but don’t stay dead. Victims of violent feedings and ghouls will sometimes rise as revenants shortly after their deaths.
>When a vampire exsanguinates a contaminated mortal, roll the vampire’s Humanity + 2. If the roll succeeds, the death occurs as expected. If the roll fails, the corpse rises as a revenant at some unpredictable time during the following week.
>When a ghoul dies, roll their regnant’s Blood Potency. If successful, the ghoul rises as a revenant after seven nights minus the successes rolled.

>>53824668
Yup. Like if you had access to a warhead, you could wipe out a city with a flip of a button.

>>53822500
No Earthbound

>>53824611
Yeah the curse sounds a bit mild, I agree

Having a spontaneously risen vampire, scared, starved and crazef, loose in a city could probably make a good introductory game for a low-level party
Maybe try and have him flee (sewers is the first thing that comes to mind) and come back occasionally, a bit stronger every time

It's starting to flesh out, not fixed on the exact method of death/embrace

Thanks for the input

>>53824669
And thanks very much for this too !

>>53824525
>>53824611
Cursed soil is definitely not enough to make a vampire, but that would actually be a cool way to introduce a secret method of making revenants for the Tzimisce.

I'm not sure if they're in nWoD but the Tzimisce are basically just the clan most strongly connected to soil, and require special soil from their homeland present to rest properly. Revenants are special vitae-regenerating ghoul bloodlines, which the Tzimisce are known for creating families of to serve them. PCs discovering this could be a plotline, if they're in nWoD or someone similar is. Especially if it means that, after embrace, these special Tzimisce/Tzimisce-likes might only need this local soil and it becomes a foothold for the hostile clan.

>>53824716
One more thing. "Circle of the Crone" had a legend of a thingie that stole your blood as you slept and used it to embrace someone you didn't know.

>>53824741
I don't believe they are part of nWoD but I loved them to bits in Masquerade and might make them a bloodline
Being able to include them in that plot hook would be the cherry on top
You're a real broham
>>53824762
I'll take note of that too
Maybe not for the same game, but I'm trying to compile scenarii around the theme of the properties of the blood and unusual creatures that compete with vampires for it and that sounds right up my alley

>>53823950
No, they are incapable of understanding the Supernal Facets of my identity. They may not know what kind of mage I am, but I am more than a mage.

Perhaps you should try to be more than one as well. Might give you a bit of a personality besides "That weirdo no one likes"

>>53824400
I'd avoid having them be too successful at causing Awakenings.
Perhaps they've had like, two success stories, and found a whole bunch of Sleepwalkers.

But that, combined with their relatively inoffensive philosophy (at least to Libertines) has gained them enough political clout with the Council and the Hierarch to gain them political protection from Guardian action.

>>53824741
Tzismice don't exist in NWoD. Chunks of their schtick were rolled into the Ventrue and the Ordo Dracul covenant.

>>53824837
>unusual creatures
You might be interested in "Night Horrors: Wicked Dead". It's devoted solely to that. Also, check the Onyx Path website for the Neglatu. It's a weird 2ed Bloodline based on Revenants. Blood and Smoke also has the Jiang-Shi. It's a kind of undead that started off as hungry Ghosts, but over generations transformed into a Clan. Requiem loves its weird edge cases.

>>53824969
Yes I have devoured (no pun intended) the Wicked Dead and I was looking for other leads on that
The sanguinata parasite one was particularly horrific, I can't wait to make all my players uncomfortable with it
Also I have planned an entire campaign kickstarted by Baykosh

>>53824969
Aaand it briefly mentions Pijavica (Pee-ya-vee-tsa). An extinct bloodline which Embrace lasted for weeks and turned you into a goo-monster for that time.

>>53825015
You should check out the Antagonists 1e book as well. There's some good shit in there.

>>53825045
I don't remember any vampiric monsters (save for the Aswang), but the Toxicum Mold will give Kindred something to fear.

>>53824951
Enough to reuse this? The only important bits are the dependence on soil and that they make and maintain revenant bloodlines.

>>53824708
>can't tell the difference between OWoD and CofD

>>53824179
Promethean is a game I've always wanted to like. The pro's? Its one of the few games with a hard objective, has some of the strongest themes, and some pretty neat fluff for powers.

The problems outweigh the pro's though, in my humble opinion. Its a game which can very easily slip into territory where people who are different are essentially victim blamed. The main problem is one of expectation: You are not supposed to play a fully complete personality when you play a Promethean. You are supposed to be Significantly Flawed in some way. And I'm not just talking mentally ill flawed, I'm talking literally missing entire sections of the fabric that make up human emotion. You are supposed to play a character who feels one emotion towards everything because they don't know how to feel anything else towards something. They literally have never felt what its like to laugh so hard you want to cry and your jaw hurts and you think to yourself "Oh god why can't the laughing stop". I just can't get into playing a character who is missing that much depth to them, and I suspect a lot of other people can't either.

cont...

>>53825259
To people who can, good on ya, but that isn't me and it flavors my understanding of the game towards something a little darker: conformity. Now I'm not gonna say that people significant mental issues shouldn't seek help, but I will say that one should never seek to change themselves to fit another person's life. Someone shouldn't have to give up their humor, or their passion, or any other part of them that makes them a human being. When you don't see Prometheans played as these incomplete characters however, that is automatically what you are saying they should do. Too often, unless you are playing a character who is literally incomplete, you are going to be playing someone who is

Another thing: Frankenstein's Humor is Sanguine, but Sanguine people are not Angry people. They are passionate people, often who can't help but try and show you just how passionate they really are, how much they really care that something is the way it is. But here's the thing: The Humors don't fucking exist because emotions are deep and complex. You can't just have a person who is Passionate, because Passion requires all other emotions to be felt. In limiting itself to the Humors as inspiration, Promethean quickly becomes a game which can't support the emotional depth it wants to have. You start to play a game about incomplete people wanting to become complete, but you lack the ability to actually appreciate what it feels like to be incomplete. To actually empathize with the character you are playing as.

And to me, that just ruins the game.

>>53824374
Ego stroking

>>53825376