So, who wins in an all-out assault for control of...let's

>>53794937
Probably the Heartless, since the others can't meaningfully interact with them in a way that would actually diminish their numbers. Though they'd ignore most of the things on this list, too.

>>53795016
No they won't ignore the thing on the list. There is a desire behind all of them. They are fine with assimilating with robot and ai base on tron world.

>>53794937

The shit off of Dr. Who's shoe would beat everyone else on that list.

>>53795389
why so?

>>53794937
If flood are the ancient version where they could infect time and warp space etc... they win pretty easily

Otherwise its between heartless and Tyranids, although its been years since I played kingdom hearts ive mostly forgotten how they spread/ interact

>Cybermen are killed with modern day rockets
>Borg cant adapt to biological enemies
>Alien reproduction is too complicated and inefficient to keep up, plus nids do what they do but better
>Flood from the halo games don't have enough stopping power or resources to beat nids, but depending on how much they start with they could easily pull a win

>>53796708
Because it works on the small child's playground rule of nuh uh.

Thing
Counter thing
nuh uh my thing can *new improbable never mentioned before OPplznerf ability*
Vague declaration of some liberal morals
I'm the doctor and great
Credits
teaser for next episode

Take the Cybermen as an example. Despite their previous origins, one grim the other tragic, the current Origins has them be the Borg with the dial turned up until it breaks. They can now time travel, assimilate via nano machines son, immune to all known weapons, capable of quickly getting immune to new ones, hive minded, fearless, feels no pain, can raise the dead, can operate in some basic manner if the organic component dies and has a small nations worth of fire power per unit.

I preferred them when they were just poor colonists trying to survive after their colony failed, one compromise at a time becoming more fucked up and insane and desperate. They did bad things but not without reason.

Even the missing planet in Sol system that got knocked out of orbit and rifted away into the black and the Stroggification being an adaptation to that was better.

>>53796984

the heartless are still better because they're japanese and fundementally broken on a stupid level.

besides only the doctor can asspull new bullshit mechanics, the rest of the creatures of his universe can really just sit there and be completely baffled by his bullshit.

>>53796984
>>53797001
The thing about Doctor Who is its primary lesson, one promoting peace and cleverness over warfare and violence. The adversaries, such as Daleks and Cybermen, are unstoppable warriors that nothing else in the show can beat by the force of guns: it takes the Doctor and some clever bullshit plan of his, showing how intelligence beats the guns, to beat them.

Nothing on that list advocates for such intelligent play: they're all effectively another race of space bugs or cyborgs. The Cybermen will beat them just as it will beat anything else that isn't a Dalek. But this time, the Doctor won't be there to save the Borgs - he probably wouldn't even want to.

>>53797099
Nids and Flood are also pretty bullshit, especially fluff Flood.

>>53796939

If it comes down to heartless vs nids, it's probably a draw. Heartless lack the numbers, firepower and ability to reproduce without a (quickly nommed) human population to threaten hive fleets and have limited ways to destroy biomass, but at the same time unless nids can adapt themselves a keyblade they can't actually kill a heartless pernamently and reduce thier numbers (a problem the entire list has with the only workaround being possestion). This means niether population can wipe out the other and it ends in a stalemate.

>>53797169
Psychic bullshittery plus a mutation to boneswords into bonekeyblades?

>>53796939
>If flood are the ancient version where they could infect time and warp space etc... they win pretty easily
It's a good thing I am ignoring halo lore past Halo Reach. It would be a hard thing reading shit like this.

>>53797180
Keyblades are more than a peculiar shape, you know. They're weapons wrought from light or darkness, fashioned in the image of the original Ki-Blade.
In other words it's magic and tyranids don't have sorcerers.

>>53797318
they have psykers though, and the warp doesnt really follow any clearly defined rules on the limits of what it can and cant do

>>53797291
I thought I was the only one who did this. Thanks for revealing yourself.

>>53797318
>>53797450
I usually just go by the "sure why not" approach to crossovers. Can the force be used to fight daemons and protect from and navigate through the warp? Sure, why not force and power weapons parry lightsabers? Sure why not. Can the hivemind channel psychic energy into biological swords to imitate weapon wrought from light and darkness? Sure why not.

>>53797318
Psykers is just the scifi name for wizards

>>53794937

I hate how they dumbed down the Borg so much.

>>53794937

Any competent spacefaring species would slaughter the nids and the flood. The only reason they are threat is because they infect the homeworlds. Those who have no homeworld, have no need to fear the nids.

>>53797506
>>53797291
I do sorta the same, but mostly because I haven't bothered playing through first level of Halo 4. The UNSC weapon aesthetics annoying me too much already at that point. I'm pretty ambivalent about Spartan IVs though, honestly not bothered if people wanna include them in a game that takes place past Halo 3, at worst they'll look like a bunch of bustas making IIs and III look better anway.

>>53797528
This quite a bit silly given the nature of keyblades. Which are sentiment of weapons that are dependent on a person's soul, and able to choose and reject their owner. They're not just weapons of light and dark, they're an extension of the hearts power, which is the source of everything in Kingdom Hearts. It's like saying all the nids could adapt themselves to have Excalibur and become kings of Brittan.

>>53797562
The nids are a threat because they can strip entire solar system of their resources to fuel what is essentially the universes most unstoppable war economy. First they devour a few uninhabited planets that happen to be in their path to pad their numbers, then they eat your outlying colonies, then they get to work on your core worlds. All the while, they're not just replenishing losses, they are reinforcing their numbers with such absurd efficiency that there is no hope to compete with them, unless you can also convert entire planets into war resources. there are plenty of reasons fear the nids

>>53797602
powerful psykers can reshape reality to their whims, so why not?

>>53797602
They'll be an extension of the hivemind's heart's power.

All hail the Swarmlord! King of Britain!

The Flood, because of one thing and one thing only: they can take control of all living organisms. So imagine the Flood taking controls of hive fleets and starts mass producing their own army or deny a tendril of retrieving/obtaining biomass by simply reanimating the dead and extracting them.

>>53794937
The Heartless since they can only be vanquished by a keyblade.

>>53797724
Oh and I also forgot to add that they can form their own hiveminds as well as taking control without turning the possessed individual into some mindless drone, essentially opening them to every single secrets that certain individual possesses. Now, imagine that it's a Nid hive fleet that got jacked.

>>53794937
Powerman

>>53797659

Ah, yes. Because those who have mastered space and time can't do that.

>>53797769
Dis

>>53797684

If you want to give the hivemind a heart it actually becomes vulnrable to the heartless's world destroying corruption, so they'd better adapt fast before the heartless end up finding the keyhole equivelent and bringing the whole fleet down in 1 move.

This adaption is complicated by the heartless being the most covert and non-threatening faction on the list if the others don't know what they are capable of, so the hive fleet may prioritse other adaptions instead not realising what's happening until it's too late.

>>53797739
How do you explain literally anyone else killing them? Such as Disney/FF characters?

>>53797169
Wouldn't the heartless take over the nids? Heartless would turn everything in the list into corrupted monsters of darkness and send them after each other.

>>53797099

The Cybermen and Borg would likely team up. They have mutually beneficial goals and even methods.

As the last episode with Lore showed that the Borg were 100% up for the idea of becoming even more mechanical than they are right now.

You'd very quickly have the superior Cybermen physical capabilities and manipulation (Everyone forgets that the Cybermen almost always work with social manipulation until they are sure they'll win the physical fight) with borg shielding and energy weapons.

>>53797291
As the person you are replying too I agree, flood in the novels and EU got so out of hand, they can infect any AI with logic, they can infect time and space and warp reality to their will etc.... Its just ridiculous

>>53798086

...how can you infect time and space? I wasn't aware those had biologies.

>>53797812
They don't to my understanding. The physical bodies are destroyed, but the hearts aren't released and the enemy just reforms in the Realm of Darkness. That's why the Heartless have seemingly infinite numbers.

>>53798101
Fuck knows, but its because they end up becoming so smart and can warp reality that they can infect concepts etc...

I believe I read somewhere that at one point, even having knowledge on the flood could auto infect you (never found a source for this but wouldn't shock me)

>>53798101
In the halo universe, there is an 'intelligence' to the universe itself, I.E the universe at its most basic level is based upon though if only partially. The flood can infect this.

>>53798193

How? They are a biological/physical plague that regularly loses to a guy with an assault rifle.

>>53798237
Hard to explain, but the intelligence of the flood isn't in their physical form, it's somehow outside of it and part of the universe. The more flood there are and the more organised they get, the smarter they become.

So a whole planet becoming part of the flood gives them enough 'processing power' to begin fucking around with time and space, but they need to reach that point first.

Master Chief fights a weakened and desiccated flood, not a pure flood strain with Forerunner tech at their disposal.

>>53798237
The Heartless got rekt by a kid with an oversized key, borg got owned by liberals, the cybermen gets rekt by some british guy who does fucking nothing and aliens couldn't even track down one little girl.

>>53798269

...when the fuck did this happen? I thought Halo was at least pretending to be remotely harder sci-fi than star trek.

The heartless win because every single entity of the opposing factions that falls to the heartless becomes a heartless of equal strength to the entity in question, and none of the other factions have access to keyblades or magic.

The heartless also have a space armada that, while perhaps not on par with the borg ships, increases their capabilities immensely.

>>53798386
tyranids have magic
its very stronk

>>53798386

Borg and Cybermen both have 'Do whatever the plot needs' technomagic. If they need to fight the heartless, they'll find a way.

Knowing the cybermen, it will be by going 'We can't kill them...but we can throw them into the void outside of time and space'. Something they've done in the past. Can't respawn if you are not dead.

>>53798101
From what I understand the Flood doesn't really "infect" space and time. It's just that they acquire so much intelligence that they become psychic? and use those powers to effect space and time.

Or something else. I honestly lost fucking track of what the Flood can do after Reach. I liked it when it was just the Flood simply being a disease, not some time-altering elder god.

>>53798386
I'd imagine the Tyranids Shadow of the Warp would somehow effect this magic.

>>53797291
>>53798086
>>53798101
They can't infect space-time itself, but they did "infect" The Domain.
The Domain is some kind of quantum information repository built by the Precursors and used by the Forerunners to store their memories, culture and all kinds of data. They didn't really know how it worked or what it was but they were able to use those functions at least.
As the Flood is a corrupted, mutated form of the Precursors they can use Precursor technology called "neural physics". Neural physics are a bit hard to explain as it blurs the concept between philosophy and science, but it is some kind of "life energy" or whatever, similar perhaps to the Force from Star Wars that permeates all living beings of sufficient intelligence in the universe.
The Precursors learned to manipulate it, building indestructible structures, the Domain and other stuff with it but the way to manipulate it was lost until the Flood appeared.

When the Flood infection reaches a sufficient size they can form planet-sized "Keyminds" that can use all Precursor neural physics-based technology. They blocked access to the Domain which crippled the Forerunner ecumene (empire) and used neural physics structures such as the "star roads" to destroy planets and fleets.
The Halo effect supposedly destroyed everything related to neural physics and almost destroyed the Domain (it's back in Halo 5 apparently, haven't played it though).

I can understand old Halo fans not liking this stuff but I enjoyed the Greg Bear Forerunner trilogy a lot and found almost all of the Flood/Forerunner lore very interesting. The neural physics stuff probably won't be relevant to the series going forwards thus the Flood has been nerfed a lot, leading it to being "killed" by a guy with a gun.
The Flood can accomplish great engineering feats given time, but generally they have to operate with the technology they can assimilate and all the hypertech is gone.

>>53798604

So it's Block Transfer Computation from Dr Who but even stupider.

>>53798628
I wouldn't know, I haven't been into Dr Who for a long time and I've only seen a few seasons.

I imagine it being like writing data into something like dark matter between galaxies or whatever.

>>53798646
>I wouldn't know, I haven't been into Dr Who for a long time and I've only seen a few seasons.

It's old-who stuff. Mathematics manipulating the fundamental underpinnings of reality. They were using it to delay the heat death of the universe indefinitely and the Master used to to create a pocket dimension (Though a rather imperfect one) by putting Adric in a creepy boy harness.

>>53797318
Psykers are sorcerers in the universum. Psykers manipulate warp and the warp is also the source of literally any and all other magical powers. Pretty sure nids could improvise themselves keyblade magic - even more, given how everything is turned up to eleven, you can expect that at some point every little combat unit of nids would have some keyblade equivalent. If heartless wouldn't wipe them out before that point, they're likely done for.

>>53794937
I don't think the Aliens from Alien is even interested in conquest.
They're just doing their thing, which is hunting people.

>>53798844
This. The whole scale is off - tyranids would likely wreck everything else due to rule of cool applied liberally in wh40k and hand-waved "they'll take over everything you have, make it even worse and throw back at you" + regular reality warping warp shenanigans. Others can oppose tyranids because practically every other group in the universe is ALSO cranked-up-to-eleven half-godlike but if they wouldn't start with vastly superior position (and they wouldn't without their very lore being fucked up), none of the other groups in OP image would be able to even muster lasting defense before being flooded and adapted against.

It's not that tyranids are better thought-out or whatever, it's just intricacy of the universe where everything is overpowered in standard and then from among that some things are made to be overpowered in regards to that standard.

Kinda reminds me of the space marines vs halo spartans discussion.

File: wh40k space marine versus spartan halo.png (464KB, 1320x3769px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53799167
Pic related, spartans vs spess mahrines. Again, when faced with wh40k, most non-Mary Sue setting armies will be absolutely wrecked no matter their gimmick, simply because in wh40k every stronger group is meant to be ridiculously powerful, up to the point of retardation.

>>53799167

I dunno, the cybermen would give them a mighty run for their money. I mean, that's a group that has mastered dimensional travel, nanomachine-based mind-control and has even got time travel.

The Borg, Tyranids and Cybermen all have a very similar basic idea 'They will out-survive you and adapt to anything you can do'. It's just a matter of biological vs technological.

Though the cybermen suffer from 'So, which cybermen?' as they've been shown in many different points in time (It is the nature of the time travel show after all).

>>53799281
You're right but like I've said, tyranids have also a lot of it retardedly cranked up to eleven on top of being galactic-swarms. Dimensional travel would likely allow cybermen to stave off immediate genocide and only till tyranids would start playing with warp shenanigans on their own which also were proven to affect the very fabric of reality - be it to get the same capabilities or coutner them (there's hard limitation on why wh40k doesn't have multidimensional wars handwaved to "no one ever done it" but if cybermen would do it it means that'd make it free-for-all). Nanomachine-based mind-control is also limited by at least token effort of being plausible while tyranids are just "throw anything at us, we'll eat it" to an extent that you couldn't be sure that nanomachines would know how to affect (control) some of the tyranid units whose biology is often quite alien even in comparison with doc Who universum baddies, nor it wouldn't be sure whether tyranids wouldn't be able to take over that nanotechnology, make even more mean, somewhat biological equivalent, then get resistant to it while throwing the mean version back at cybermen.

It's unfair, it's Mary Suish, it's rule of cool taken to pants-on-the-head-retarded extent.

It's Warhammer 40 000.

>>53799533

See, that seems to run mostly on 'They'll win because the writers will favor them'. As I'm not sure they are inherently better.

It's not like Dr Who doesn't have it's own utter bullshit like Block Transfer Computation (Math so good it can warp reality strong enough to create pocket dimensions or stave off the heat death of the universe).

By the same token, Dr Who foes tend to run on 'You cannot beat them in a fight'. It's the nature of the show, that intelligence and outside the box thinking is the source of victory rather than ability to kill stuff.

Mind you, surprised they didn't put Daleks up the top rather than Cybermen. Likely because 'Time War' is a step too far in the bullshit direction.

>>53799598
>See, that seems to run mostly on 'They'll win because the writers will favor them'. As I'm not sure they are inherently better.
You're right and it's not. It's one fo the reasons why WH40K suffers from quite some inconsistencies and retcons in the lore. But it's still what it is - great advantage caused by the fact that tyranids were made with idea of being superpowered, unstoppable (by anything short of comparatively overpowered) Mary Sue force of DOOM while Dr Who villains are conditionally very powerful but meant to be defeated in some way, and written with certain in-universe believability in mind. The scaling of power between Wh40K and nearly any other settings is just very unfairly uneven.

>>53797975

Heartless based darkness only corrupts those who use it. Villains that avoided going ham with dark powers, much less those not using them, are not corruped. See also: Hades who mostly used his own power and Hook who seemed to get away with it by keeping a healthy distance from them and simply giving orders, niether were visably affected by corruption. Even then it's resistable, maleficent only lost control due to having possesed riku screwing with her heart by force.

Against the unwilling they just seperate heart from body the old fashioned way.

Though that brings up the possibility of one side or another tapping into powers they shouldn't...

The mechanics of world corruption/destruction are different but the nature of the hive fleet means that world rules may apply which is much better for the heartless as it gives them a way to take the whole thing out by force.

>>53797528
Here's the thing though, Multiple ways exist in 40k to fight deamons and navigate the warp. Multiple ways exist in Star Wars to fight Lightsabers, or at least did pre-Disney, I don't know what they've done with the universe.
Magic exists in the Kingdom Hearts universe and all it does to the heartless is disperse them.
ONLY the keyblade can kill them.

>>53799699

See, I'm not sure that's really something you can throw out during comparisons. As The Writers favouring them isn't something you can count on.

>>53799751
>Magic exists in the Kingdom Hearts universe
No. Warhammer's warp is the superdimensional space and power that can affect all aspects of reality. Just because most technological races' sorcerers are called psykers doesn't mean they're stereotypical psychics with telepathy + telekinesis. Warp is far more diverse and powerful than that and every one who can access and control it can also control any kinds of magic in existence, most just don't know how or stay away from some of the more corrupting shit. But the moment you do crossover and thus keyblade magic exists in some form, it's something you can get at through warp.

>>53799804

>But the moment you do crossover and thus keyblade magic exists in some form, it's something you can get at through warp.

Well, depends on the setting.

I'd say it couldn't touch shit with Charter Magic stuff in the Old Kingdom series for example. As that's the magic of Law and Structure (It would basically slot in with Free Magic there perfectly though)

>>53799763
Yes and no, I cannot throw it if it's pure rule of cool wank with "and they they've done this super thing cause they're just awesome" but when we go by the qualities of those groups, then you have to accept that tyranids have retardedly manly overpowered qualities, even if all of them stem from the same "overpowered awesome". There's simply no other way to go about it without nerfing some group to fit the level of other group but then the nerfed group isn't really the same as designed. Inherent flaw of comparing vastly different universes build upon different ideas.

>>53799829
Yeah, but if we compare different settings then I assume we allow countermeasures and capabilities available to a group in regards of their own setting. Otherwise we can as well go in opposite direction and say that Tyranids would have no problems with Heartless because there's neither keyblade magic nor any warp-resistant "heartless stuff" in WH40K and then the whole comparison becomes even more of a mess.

>>53798288
When 343 got control of the franchise

>>53799834

The issue there is that basically anything anyone else throws out people go 'The nids would just adapt' even when it's people talking about Cybermen or Borg. Groups who's entire thing is 'They adapt'.

Nids are scary, yes. I don't, however, think they are inherently better than other groups at their own speciality. Doubly so when said other groups have some pretty massive claims to fame. I mean, the Nids haven't really done time travel, dimensional jumping or 'Managing to survive the end of the universe by building ships that can exist outside of time and space itself'.

>>53799869

Oh yeah. Reasonable allowances to allow crossovers to work, rather than X ignores anything Y can do'. Otherwise it's boring and people just rush for an instant-win button.

Like I'd accept St Celestine's sword as an example of something that could kill a D&D demon that can only be killed by a Holy Avenger as it's a blade blessed by the god emperor himself.

>>53794937
I'm going to leave the Heartless out of this.
They're more like warp-beings born from emotion than anything else on this list.

So discounting them, I think the Borg win.
Nids would get assimilated, flood would get wiped out/assimilated, xenomorphs would get assimilated, and those stupid nu-Cybermen would get destroyed.

>>53798288
>>53799911
Slipspace travel, Halo effect, the series has never been any more "hard scifi" than Star Trek.

>>53799966

I did say pretending. It's never been actual hard sci-fi, more that it was at least putting on a mask of it. What with all the gun/machine porn they try to throw out to make it seem harder.

>>53799966
It at least looked the part until Halo 4, at least as far as Humanity was concerned.

>>53799869
>there's neither keyblade magic nor any warp-resistant "heartless stuff" in WH40K
That's my point. There is no way for the Tyrinids to effectively fight against the heartless.
It's not the Tyrinids that are the problem, it's the Heartless. They are designed to be a race that can only be killed in one specific way, and there is no reasonable way for any of the races in OPs pic to obtain that method.

>>53799989

SOB would be a pretty good one for fighting heartless. Faithful, devoted and divinely empowered people with blessed weapons.

>>53799923
I would say that the Swarmlord would probably be the only thing the Nids have that could count for destroying heartless. It's a psychic individual with four psychically attuned swords. It might be able to bullshit its way into making itself a chosen one and have its swords function properly.

The rest of the hive fleet is basically animals, so I don't think they could have the same special snowflake function be widespread. At the same time though, I'm not sure if the heartless would bother with what is essentially animals.

Also, while the Heartless might just respawn over time, that's no different than when Nids fight Daemons.

>>53798122
Being slain by the keyblade would do the same thing then? I guess the only way to stop them is to be in a world without darkness, like the 100 acre wood.

File: xfoszJI[1].gif (975KB, 300x169px) Image search: [Google]

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Dr. who humans who controlled a thousand galaxies and use briefcase bombs able to bust planets fought a tooth and nail in a war with the cybermen that only ended after they blew up a galaxy

>CLARA: Who were we fighting?
PORRIDGE: Cybermen. Technologically upgraded warriors. We couldn't win. Sometimes we fought to a draw, but then they'd upgrade themselves, fix their weaknesses and destroy us. It's hard to fight an enemy that uses your armies as spare parts.
CLARA: You beat them, though. Beat them or you wouldn't be here. How?
PORRIDGE: Look up there. That corner of sky? What do you see?
CLARA: Nothing. It's just black. No stars, no nothing.
PORRIDGE: It use to be the Tiberion Spiral Galaxy. A million star systems, a hundred million worlds, a billion trillion people. It's not there any more. No more Tiberion Galaxy. No more Cybermen. It was effective.

Upgrading cybermen.
https://i.imgur.com/GMNzZS8.mp4

>Activate the Desolator. And it's done.
(The bomb is armed.)
PORRIDGE: It'll blow in about eighty seconds. Easily long enough for the Imperial Flagship to locate me from my identification, warp jump[from outside the galaxy] into orbit, and transmat us to the State Room.


Conclusion: this is a whostomp.

>>53800022
None of that matters. You need ONE specific type of weapon, NOTHING else works, they've tried. It's not that it's made of light, they regenerate from light magic too. It's a specific property of the Keyblade that allows it to kill heartless. If you do not use a keyblade, then any heartless you kill will simply respawn, no matter the method.

>>53799923
>The issue there is that basically anything anyone else throws out people go 'The nids would just adapt' even when it's people talking about Cybermen or Borg. Groups who's entire thing is 'They adapt'.
Yes, but then there's in-setting differences, how well those adapt. Borg and Cybermen are meant to adapt in certain reasonable aspects befitting their settings while in setting of WH40K adaptation of tyranids go far and beyond capabilities of those two groups. That's the problem I already mentioned with how vastly different those settings are and similar problem that was in comparison of Halo' Spartans and Space Marines in (quite interesting either way) convo from >53799274 pic.
On the other hand you cannot really bring capabilities of one group down to that of some other group because at that point you don't really compare those groups anymore, but their in-setting equivalents.

>>53800091
Then how do you explain Goofy slamming things with a shield?

>>53800070
The portrayal of Cybermen in the new series is horribly inconsistent.
At weakest they're slow tincan zombies.
At strongest they're fucking wizards.

>>53800091

This goes back to the reasonable allowances thing. By that logic then Heartless could never defeat undead from The Old Kingdom as the heartless can't enter the river of death or they'd have no defence against being ripped apart by psyker powers as they've only dealt with magic rather than psykers.

>>53800115
Those will respawn latter.
The ones Sora kills will not.
Well in the game both respawn, but story-wise, kills from the keyblade are permanent, kills from any other source are not.

>>53800129

It's the nature of a time travel show. You see them at one point, then you see them tends of thousands of years more advanced. Like how Daleks are rarely the old ones that needed constant power from a generator to keep going.

>>53794937
>/tg/
One.
>/c/ or /v/
>/v/
>/v/
>/c/ or /tv/
>/c/ or /tv/

Fuck dude, if you are posting on /tg/ MAKE is /tg/ related at least!

How about some Sliver for mtg?
How about iunno... Mind Flayers for D&D. (Visilight, Parai, Kaorti, Bodoks, Standard Shades)
How about Shadowrun's Insect spirits?

I'm not saying any of those EXAMPLES would win, just if you are posting on /tg/. Post some shit we can really talk to.

>>53794937
Tyranids, likely without as much trouble as people would hope they'd have, all for the dumb reasons that WH40K is simply too Mary Sue in capabilities given to different races for any group from more down-to-earth (and almost everything is more down-to-earth when compared to WH) setting to be able to oppose them.

>>53800134
>This goes back to the reasonable allowances thing.
If you say things other than Keyblades can kill them, then Heartless are by far the weakest of the races in OPs picture to the point of irrelevancy, except for the "bosses" which could give even the strongest of the other races a run for their money, but are too few to make up for the weakness of the common heartless.
If you don't say that they are invincible.
This is why I said the Heartless are a problem here >>53799989. They are either invincible if you treat them like they are in their own universe, or irrelevant if you give them the usual concussions of a crossover.

>>53794937
The Heartless can't actually be hurt unless there's a keyblade nearby. So Heartless.

>>53800152
The Mondasian cybermen were so much cooler in concept than the new series Cybermen.

The Mondasians were actually an interesting sci-fi concept, augmented pseudo-humans adapting to their changing environment. The new cybermen were literally introduced so that the setting could have metal zombies because zombies were in vogue at the time of the episode.

>>53798519
>Borg and Cybermen both have 'Do whatever the plot needs' technomagic
Borg really don't
Cybermen, however, really do.

>Ironic(?) for this Anon to say because I fucking hate Dr. Who.

>>53800252
goto:
>>53798844

How about for the sake of keeping things simple and not having to keep track of several different types of magic that we just condense everything to one type.

It's not like we can measure which magic is better than the other because, well, it's fucking magic.

>>53800236
How do nids react to nanomachines?
I feel the the borg could fuck their shit up pretty bad.

Mind you I think the Orks could krump all deez gitz.

>>53800270

>Borg really don't

You never saw Voyager. 90% of plots 7 of 9 solved were 'I'm going to say nanomachines until it's solved'.

>>53800270
It's not ironic, it's a good way to approach things. Facts shouldn't be affected by whether you like them or not.

>>53800290
Yeah but everything else was solved with the ridiculously versatile deflector dish.

I hope when the Voyager returned they taught everyone about what you can do with deflector dishes.

>>53797724
No, we settled this in a previous thread: the Flood still needs a thing to have a neural system, and the tyrannids are perfectly capable of just mutating themselves into plants that don't have neutral systems for the Flood to interact with.

>>53798844
>If heartless wouldn't wipe them out before that point, they're likely done for.
That seems to be the Nids MO. Period.

>>53800316

Deflectomancy is the highest form of technomagic.

Ultimately, the Nids, Borg, and Cybermen all end up as one faction. Each of them is about assimilation, so they have mutually beneficial goals. All it takes is for one of either race to get assimilated and their hive minds are connected. Don't know about the other races, but 3 v 1 seems like a curbstomp to me.

>>53800287
Without looking for closest similar situation, I'd assume that nids would first stumble a bit in their assault when faced with nanomachines but quite quickly there'd be a risk for everyone else that they'd go the way of
>>53799533

Like it was already mentioned, WH40K doesn't scale well with anything else in this list - things from it will be almost always unfairly powerful without forced nerfing.

>>53800236
Ahem.

>>53800070
who-verse stuff is vastly more mary sue then anything in warhammer by a very wide margin.

like seriously the imperium that we saw in that very same episode as the cybermen was the size of a thousands galaxies and could bust planets with briefcases. literally a stronger expy of the 40k imps.

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>>53800344
Behold my emblem of eldritch power!

>>53800282
Problem: the exact mindset that allows the folks of 40k to resist Chaos is what opens them up to Darkness.

The Tyrannids also need time to evolve and grow new strains and then replace their extant strains; they're not the Zerg who can just cause mutations among all their existing forces. The Tyrannids would be overwhelmed by Darkness long before they could bring any meaningful opposition online, presuming that psykers can even duplicate a Keyblade anyway - after all, a Keyblade is more than just a "magic sword".

Ultimately, though, I'm pretty sure that this whole thing WOULD come down to Tyrannids v. Heartless. The Xenomorphs and Borg aren't even in the running. The Heartless don't have neural systems and so can't be affected by the Flood, and the Tyrannids can evolve away their neural pathways to become plants or fungi, and so likewise are immune to the Flood.

Cybermen might put up an interesting fight but ultimately I don't see any good reason to think that they would be immune to Darkness. Quite the contrary, I can see the Cybermen experimenting with Darkness to try and harness it...and that ending as well for them as it does for everyone else who tries.

>>53800362
That's the over-the-top background fluff though for the series that had little of any effect on any plot and was basically a story doc told others while tyranids and other OP bullshit from warhammer is daily bread and butter of the setting.

The levels are still so much more Mary Sue in WH that likely upon deployment of such briefcases some precogs from the warp would confiscate them all and then shit around in that psyker-less empire just out of spite.

>>53800061
No the keyblade releases the hearts. That's a part of its whole schtick.

Am I the only one who feels sorry for the Xenomorphs in these discussions?

The thing about them is, while at first glance they appear very menacing and such, in the grand scale of things all they really are are just animals. They don't have plans to conquer the galaxy or consume all life, the just do what animals do: eat, avoid getting eaten, and reproduce. It's just that they're really good at these things. The worst I see them being in the grand scale of things is either being used as a bioweapon by an actually intelligent race or just becoming the embodiment of an ecological disaster for whatever poor planet they land on.

I just feel a little sorry for them sometimes when they're grouped up to fight against these other species that have some grand goal in mind and actually have the means to do it when the xenomorphs can't even travel space by themselves, they have to rely on other races providing ships to stow away on.

>>53800421

Xenomorphs are tactically threatening but they don't mean much on a strategic level as well, as you said, they are basically animals. Even if they do win, they don't plan attacks to other planets.

>>53800362
Whoverse is the most inconsistent though.

40k makes more sense because everyone is stuck in a stalemate.
Whereas some of the bullshit in Who would've ruined the universe several times over. Even with time-war fuckery.

>>53800421
Yeah, I was thinking that when typing up my Heartless v. Tyrannid diatribe above. The Xenomorphs stand about as much chance as an ordinary human in these kinds of discussions.

>>53800404
> the exact mindset that allows the folks of 40k to resist Chaos is what opens them up to Darkness
And as it was mentioned above, not only darkness doesn't just grab things easily if they don't willingly indulge it - even when attacked it can be oppossed. Plus the moment its very idea enter the warp - and it has to to exist - it can be defended against and even manipualted the same way any other power or idea can be.

I'd wager that warp alone is unfair element of the setting in comaprison with all others - it's not merely some FTL dimension or magic power - it's the meta stuff where every idea, concept, power, technology and other gimmick has to leave some mark/imprint to exist and through which it can be manipulated.

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>>53800404
>The Tyrannids would be overwhelmed by Darkness long before they could bring any meaningful opposition online
>Problem: the exact mindset that allows the folks of 40k to resist Chaos is what opens them up to Darkness.
So according to you the moment a heartless shows up the entire milky way galaxy turns into heartless? If that were true the kingdom hearts games wouldn't exist, because literally everybody would've already been dead.

>>53800352

>That's the over-the-top background fluff though for the series that had little of any effect on any plot.

That's objectivly not true. The ubsurd power scales constantly are a part of the plot of a given episode.


>The levels are still so much more Mary Sue in WH.


Objectivly. false.
that likely upon deployment of such briefcases some precogs from the warp would confiscate them all.

How? and why wouldn't they have counters for such actions from similar entities doing the exact same thing? a

Planet busting is a regular army activity for them.

>CAPTAIN: We're a punishment platoon. We >can't beat a Cyberman. The Imperium has to >know what's happening.
>PORRIDGE: Like you said, the >communicators are out. The only way you can >report this now is to activate the bomb.
>CAPTAIN: Yes.
>PORRIDGE: And I forbid you to do that.
>CLARA: I don't get it. Why would you blow up >a whole planet and everybody on it just to get >rid of one Cyberman?
>PORRIDGE: We tried other ways, but they >only work sometimes, so now we take drastic >action. And it works.
>CAPTAIN: If you find a Cyberman and you >can't destroy it immediately, you implode the >planet.


And the humans destroy a galaxy.

>CLARA: You beat them, though. Beat them or >you wouldn't be here. How?
>PORRIDGE: Look up there. That corner of >sky? What do you see?
>CLARA: Nothing. It's just black. No stars, no >nothing.
>PORRIDGE: It use to be the Tiberion Spiral >Galaxy. A million star systems, a hundred >million worlds, a billion trillion people. It's not >there any more. No more Tiberion Galaxy. No >more Cybermen. It was effective.

The mere fact that they can exist in the batshittery that is the who-verse puts them leagues above the 40k factions.

I don't know how to break this to you but there are things *far* beyond the scope of 40k running around in the who-multiverse and they constantly show up every season/novel.

>>53800470
>darkness doesn't just grab things easily if they don't willingly indulge it

Literally one of the first things you see in Traverse Town in Kingdom Hearts I is some random civilian running away from a Shadow, getting knocked down and his Heart torn out, and then that Heart becomes a Soldier Heartless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tl_1X4uAAw

Go to 2:28

People with strong Hearts need to indulge in Darkness for the Darkness to get them. Your average schmuck off the street is just so much Heartless bait.

>>53797291

But anon you just have to shoot em with your machine gun who cares if about all that time stuff
>Halo

>>53800691
Sounds like someone would fall to chaos.

>>53800694
I guess then it becomes a question of what counts as a heart. Is it more metaphorical, meaning that the presence of the Hive Mind and the Shadow in the Warp will allow the Tyranids to protect themselves through stron enough willpower, or is it literally just physical hearts, in which case the Tyranids can effectively stalemate by focusing their biomass on plants, microscopic organisms, and other things that dont have that sort of cardiovascular system?

>>53800632
Maybe not the entire Milky Way of 40K, but yeah, massive portions of it would fall essentially instantly to Darkness.

Darkness both creates and feeds off of primal emotions like jealousy, rage, hate, greed and fear. The 40K universe is positively swamped with those emotions thanks to the very nature of the setting and its grimdark nature, far more so than the real world or any of the worlds in Kingdom Hearts.

>>53800778
Tau victory confirmed.

>>53800778
The Heartless just sound like Chaos except they pop up more easily

>>53800747
It's not physical hearts, as the Heartless were perfectly capable of infecting the TRON world, which after all is just a computer simulation.

What a "Heart" actually is within the context of Kingdom Hearts is vague and intentionally so, since figuring it out has been a key part of the series. We know it's separate from the Soul, however. We also know that it's responsible for emotion, as beings without Hearts (the Nobodies) can't feel real emotions. Hearts also seem to be tied into personality and identity, as the Nobodies largely don't seem to remember their previous lives.

Incidentally, the Heartless are ironically named as they're actually nothing *but* Hearts, albeit ones utterly consumed by Darkness. Similarly the Nobodies are ironically named because they still have a Body and Soul, but no Heart.

>>53800691
Man they never made cybermen feel like that much of a threat.

Daleks felt scary because of their unrelenting HATRED of everything non-Dalek.

But cybermen never felt intimidating. You'd think if they were all about becoming better by nanotech and shit, they'd lose the tin centurion bodies.

>>53800859
So Tyranids should be fine then, especially if they go for a plant strategy, since they don't really go for the whole emotion thing.

Unless there have been cases of Heartless turning random trees or blades of grass into more of themselves

>>53800823
Kind of, yeah, and with the additional exception tht they can't actually be defeated without a Keyblade at least being nearby.

Case and point, in Kingdom Heats I, Donald and Goofy are able to team up with Sora and mow down Heartless by the truckload. But during a brief part of the game Sora is turned into a Heartless and not around. Donald and Goofy run from all the Heartless they then encounter, and when they attack the Shadow that Sora had become they aren't able to damage it even a little, even though the Shadow didn't fight back and just let them hit it.

>>53800778
>Darkness both creates and feeds off of primal emotions like jealousy, rage, hate, greed and fear.
So, just like chaos. But yet the imperium is still there. If what you're saying is true, then I can only conclude that the "Heartless" are demons of malal and other chaos gods would roflstomp them, and the orks and necrons wouldn't even notice a thing. But, because we're talking about the entire universe, heartless are almost useless against the literally heartless(cybermen, borg), and the metaphorically heartless(tyranids, possibly xenomorphs). Even if Xenomorphs do feel hate and sadism, which isn't proven but you can make a strong case for, the xenomorphs are so strong the heartless would barely register as a threat to them. I feel as if you're overestimating the strength of these disney villains.

>>53800691
>The ubsurd power scales constantly are a part of the plot of a given episode.
And again, only as a background plot pusher. When it comes to actual characters, every problem is usually solved through some dialogue, a few simple maneuvers and actions once the Doctor "figures it out" and similar stuff which I believe is kind of the point of the series, like some anon already mentioned - it's about Doc outwitting etc everyone who are supposedly very powerful etc, sometimes with an use of deus ex machina.

>How? and why wouldn't they have counters for such actions from similar entities doing the exact same thing?
The way it's already done and it's not a maintasy in WH only because, like I've said - if brakes would be taken off from all possible actions every baddie in WG universe can do, every galaxy-ending briefcase would be like a fart because what you'd get would be trans-dimensional pan-galactic wipeout of everything ever (assuming it wouldn't scale to something even more powerful). Compared to manipulation of the very idea of power, briefcase bombs are simply primitive.

>Planet busting is a regular army activity for them.
So is Exterminatus. In Whoverse it's apparently a big deal though, in IoM it happened enough times that people barely bat an eyelid anymore when reading about another instance in some new book or other product GW rolls out.

>And the humans destroy a galaxy.
Again, small fries compared to some of the shit that WH was doing, together with creating literal gods out of murderhaterape of galaxies.

>Objectively this or that
You realize that whenever someone tries to underline how objective their statement is, that only shows how much personal, subjective investment they have and how much less one should pay attention to their statements as they cannot stand on their own.

The Alien From Alien wins the Aesthetic war.

>>53800859
So it does all the stuff souls are normally thought of doing except it isn't a soul?

What do souls do in this context then? Nothing?

>>53800862

>But cybermen never felt intimidating.

Old series cybermen played up up a lot more the fact that they were manipulators. The cyberman invasion of earth for example had them infiltrate first, planting hidden armies all over the world and suborning earth's defences.

As the cybermen are not just metal zombies, they are just as smart and cunning as humans are. They don't feel emotions but they can use other people's emotions fine. They don't just adapt to your weapons. They adapt to your culture and your thought patterns. They work out where your civilisation is weak and hit it there.

Actually, that's an interesting though. Cybermen don't feel emotions at all. Corrupting them with the Heartless seems rather a lost cause.

>>53800947
As much as I agree that 40k is over the top as fuck, I also agree with anon that Whoverse is insane OP.

The whole of 40k takes place in one galaxy.
The whoverse can shit on that galaxy in an instant.

>>53800902
It kinda proves though how Heartless would never be even a tiny bit as much of a threat as Chaos. A matter of scale - Heartless simply cannot be much of a threat if a single kid with oversized, unwieldy key and two muppets are able to effectively mow down mainstay troops of the enemy in melee.

>>53800947

>So is Exterminatus. In Whoverse it's apparently a big deal though, in IoM it happened enough times that people barely bat an eyelid anymore when reading about another instance in some new book or other product GW rolls out.

That's not really true. Eterminatus is a massive, massive in-universe deal. It's why 'Exterminatus planets to deprive the nids of food' got the guy suggesting it kicked out of the inquisition.

>>53800902
>Kind of, yeah, and with the additional exception tht they can't actually be defeated without a Keyblade at least being nearby.
Correction: The keyblade is the only thing in Kingsom Hearts that can kill them. Kingdom hearts doesn't have The Emperor, Psykers, The Warp, Jesus Christ, The Astronomicon, Chaos Gods, Daemons, The Shadow in The Warp, all that stuff. We never see any of that in KH, so you can't say for certain none of that is effective against heartless.

>>53800900
Again, Heartless have been able to affect lines of code in a computer. Simply becoming a plant isn't a solution.

Likewise, they feed off of emotion, not intelligence. Tyrannids might not think, but they certainly feel.

>Unless there have been cases of Heartless turning random trees or blades of grass into more of themselves

They've turned inanimate objects into Heartless. I don't see why a tree or blade of grass would be any different. Obviously even though "emotion" enters into the equation somewhere, it isn't strictly necessary. Possibly it's just that feeling negative emotions opens you up to Darkness and draws its attention, but Darkness is nevertheless a distinct force that can still infect other things if it suits its purposes, whatever they may be.

The best defense Tyrannids have is that they're basically just animals, so they aren't likely to experiment with or intentionally indulge in Darkness. But they also aren't likely to resist it, either.

>>53800991
I'd agree and disagree. I agree that whoeverse is on much bigger scale "geographically" but aside from plot gimmicks like that galaxy-ending bomb, everything any group or individual is capable of doing in whoverse is laughtably weak compared to regular over-the-top WH antics where people literally rewrite reality.

>>53801036

>everything any group or individual is capable of doing in whoverse is laughtably weak compared to regular over-the-top WH antics where people literally rewrite reality.

And you base this on? We don't really have a comparison between plasma guns and dalek death rays.

>>53801018
Sounds like a stalemate to me then. Tyranids continue absorbing Biomass, Heartless don't really deal with them because they don't have a reason to care about most random animals or plants

>>53801003
In that one story it's not true but that's because WH retcons and handwaves stuff so the universe won't end itself. At the same time when you gather all instances of exterminatus mentioned in fluff or rulebooks, codexes, games, novels etc - it turns out they do those almost off-handedly. "Things are troublesome and we don't have time nor will to deal with it, blow it up" level of off-handedly.

>>53801085

Citation required? As I can't think of any cases when it's not treated as the final option.

>>53801018
Someone already addressed that:
>>53797450
>>53798844
>>53799804

>>53800918
>So, just like chaos.

Only in the broadest sense. But Heartless seem to have an easier time invading worlds, and the worlds they invade are a lot happier and nicer than 40K's worlds are on average.

Kind of like how the Cybermen are basically a strictly better version of the Borg, the Heartless are basically a strictly better version of Chaos. Anything Chaos can do, the Heartless can do, but they can observably do it better.

>heartless are almost useless against the literally heartless(cybermen, borg)

I'm unconvinced Cybermen don't feel emotion, and even if a typical Borg drone doesn't, the Borg queen certainly does. And regardless, Heartless have been observed being made out of inanimate objects. Darkness is drawn to emotion, but it appears able to act independently of it.

>>53800975
I think souls are intellect, reasoning ability, and logic. Hence why the Heartless don't appear to have any intelligence behind them.

>>53800992
Again, the Keyblade is more than just a magic sword, and remember that by that point in Kingdom Hearts I the Heartless had already eaten literally all of the Final Fantasy worlds, or at least VII and VIII's worlds.

>>53801016
I'm inclined to say most of those are of limited effectiveness, however. After all, Final Fantasy VII and VIII aren't lacking in alternate kinds of magic, but nevertheless couldn't put up an effective fight against the Heartless.

>>53801109
That's what I am telling you. In-universe, fluff-wise it's always a big deal but across all the medium and stories it happened so many times than in reality it's like friday.
Compare, I don't know, kids shows where big bad comes up and threatens to take over the world with nefarious plot and then gets rather easily defeated by the good guys, just to show next episode with another diabolical plan - it's this kind of deal, except instead of new plan, it's another planet blown up.

>>53800346
I don't think you understand how their assimilation works or their hiveminds, they look to absorb and take control, not share

>>53801132

>I'm unconvinced Cybermen don't feel emotion

It's one of the defining traits of them. They surgically removed the parts of the brain that deal with emotion.

>>53801153
>In-universe, fluff-wise it's always a big deal but across all the medium and stories it happened so many times than in reality it's like friday.

Has it though? The Milky Way has around 200 to 400 billion stars, and at this point we've pretty much determined that the overwhelming majority of stars have planetary systems, given that every time we point a telescope at a star to look for planets, we find them.

So assuming just 5 planets per star, that's between 1 and 2 trillion planets in the Milky Way.

Compared to that, the number of planets Exterminatus'd is astonishingly small.

Plus, doesn't 40K take place largely across the entire 41st Millennium? 1,000 years or so?

>>53800947
>And again, only as a background plot pusher.

So you dismiss anything that beats what you like as being "background" stuff. It still exists anon and it's still a thing that effects other things. would be a shame if a given "background" thing moved towards the foreground.

>every galaxy-ending briefcase would be like a fart because what you'd get would be trans-dimensional pan-galactic wipeout of everything ever

>What is the time war?

Galaxy busting is peanuts compared to many of the things that get encountered on who anyway.

>Compared to manipulation of the very idea of power

This is just plain old disingenuous. That's not a thing that actually happens in 40k. Realspace thoughts effect realm of souls, changing concepts is not what you are implying it to be in this context and it's all a localized effect anyway that does not actually last. This whose statment is false and there are being in who that "can" change concepts in the whoverse.

>Again, small fries compared to some of the shit that WH was doing

[doubt.png] They didn't explode a galaxy.

>together with creating literal gods.

(Collective manifestations of everyone's emotions) Not gods.(which also happens in who)

>>53801179
It's supposedly one of the defining traits of the Borg, as well, yet look at the Queen.

The Cybermen react with a little too much emotion to various events in Who to leave me convinced that they're actually emotionless.

>>53801176
But if a hivemind is purely that - a combination of individuals all connected together - then surely once they're connected they all become a single hivemind?

It's like if you add 1 and 1. You get 2, you don't get a dominant 1 and a subjected 1.

>>53801016
Genie can't kill Heartless and he has PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS. Hercules, a God, can't kill them. Final Fantasy magic can't kill them. Heroes from other universes with their own gear can't kill the Heartless.

KH is a cross-over game in which the enemy has only ONE weakness. Why would that change when you throw in more cross-overs?

Similar with Daleks in Dr. Who. They are barely worth considering in this discussion because the only thing proven to defeat the Daleks is the Doctor. If he isn't around, the Daleks are unstoppable

>>53801132
>Again, the Keyblade is more than just a magic sword, and remember that by that point in Kingdom Hearts I the Heartless had already eaten literally all of the Final Fantasy worlds, or at least VII and VIII's worlds.
It may be much more than a magic sword, it may be even living idea - it'll only make its signature in the warp more noticeable. That's the point - if GW wouldn't artificially limit in-universe character warp shenanigans, they'd literally change the very reality and end the frenchise at the very start. In practical dimension, with no brakes it could mean as much "keyblade for everyone, even a random stick has now a keyblade power" or willing Heartless to be easily bonkable by anything. Warp is meta OP and lack of its abuse is only through "everyone sabotages each other warp hijinks" and other handwaving explanations.

It's so Mary Sue that you can actually go with whatever argument and counter it with "no matter it wondrous capabilities, it can be made/changed/disabled/modified through Warp". That's how unfairly OP Warp in WH is.

>>53800421
In a 1v1 fight theyre pretty scary, acid blood, tough exoskeleton, speed and can warp metal with their strength

BUT they require other hosts to infect and are born in weak larval stages
>Facehug a cyberman... nothing
>Facehug a borg, if theres enough biology left they might work
>Facehug a nid? No guarantee the nid couldn't adapt and even if it worked, all nearby nids would kill the infected

They're too slow and ineffective as a species

>>53801244

>Similar with Daleks in Dr. Who. They are barely worth considering in this discussion because the only thing proven to defeat the Daleks is the Doctor. If he isn't around, the Daleks are unstoppable

Raston Warrior Robots killed them.

>>53801247
I don't know what 40K lore you've been reading, but the Warp does not work like what you're describing.

Also I'm getting flashbacks to a certain other poster I encountered a few months back who actually thought that the Warp could even begin to challenge the awesome might and power that is Carmen Sandiego.

The biggest obstacle to your ideas concerning the Warp is that the Warp is created by emotion, and the Heartless are nothing BUT emotion. The Heartless would utterly dominate the Warp.

>>53801230
> It still exists anon and it's still a thing that effects other things.
Then I can easily dimiss it by cmparison with Warp entities possibly creating whole layers of existence and attaining immortality that cannot be affected through physical means, including the bombs you mention.

>What is the time war?
Exactly, it wouldn't be a war though, it'd be instantenous boom that goes immediately through every timeline in every space, through soul or other sign of existence of every being and object. You go with galaxy-ending bomb, Warp is meta-layer of reality itself with all the galaxies and bombs and everything beside at every moment in time.

>Not gods.
They call them chaos gods, so I go with gods. Labels aside, beings which seem to mess in the fabric of reality much more than a bomb of yours would and their actions are felt thorough the plot of most of the frenchise rather than being a gimmick someone mentions in some conversation.

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>>53801337

>>53801355
I hate to point this out to you, but the Daleks actually built a device, the Crucible of the Daleks, which would have wiped out literally every single thing in literally every single universe, and came within a hair's breath of using it. This was on-screen.

40K has absolutely nothing that demonstrates to me that they have remotely that kind of ability.

>>53801337
No, warp isn't created by emotion but it's influenced by it as through emotional input things manifest in the warp. But in that way warp is only a mirror of one's thoughts and emotions, not a product of such - it'd exist even without any emotional input, it'd be just much more empty, with few signatures of any living being.

> I encountered a few months back who actually thought that the Warp could even begin to challenge the awesome might and power that is Carmen Sandiego.
I recall that cartoon, the character didn't seem that interesting or cool. I prefered Johnny Quest which was also airing around that time in my country. Though goddamit was the opening catchy, I still recalled the theme 20 years later.

>>53801132
Ok, so what killed the heartless for good at the end of kingdom hearts? Or are you telling me that KH is doomed, because there's no way that a twelve year old will ever manage to hit everything on multiple earths with an oversized garage key in his lifetime.
>But Heartless seem to have an easier time invading worlds, and the worlds they invade are a lot happier and nicer than 40K's worlds are on average.
You... you don't think those facts are related, at all? Of course taking a hilltop village is easier than launching an invasion of the US. This isn't rocket science.
>the Heartless are basically a strictly better version of Chaos
wut
>Anything Chaos can do, the Heartless can do, but they can observably do it better.
Are you sure you're not just a massive fanboy? Chaos and heartless are distinctly different in goals, methods, and execution. They're only similar in food source. Maybe not even that, because you told me that they need to physically be in the chest of the person to get their "heart" and emotions. Chaos has actual gods. The moment any of the gods get sufficiently annoyed the heartless are gone.
>I think souls are intellect, reasoning ability, and logic.
Fedora tipping aside, so you're saying what a soul is is never actually defined in KH?
>After all, Final Fantasy VII and VIII aren't lacking in alternate kinds of magic, but nevertheless couldn't put up an effective fight against the Heartless.
FF magic is waving your wand around and having an explosion appear, or sacrificing a planet to make one superman who's still defeated by a gang of roving mercenaries. Big deal, a tank does the same thing. FF magic is weaksauce, and also never explained. It's less fleshed out than even the force from star wars.

>>53801247

>It's so Mary Sue that you can actually go with whatever argument and counter it with "no matter it wondrous capabilities, it can be made/changed/disabled/modified through Warp". That's how unfairly OP Warp in WH is.

That's a hell of an assumption. Considering there are other settings with magic that's just as fundamental to the universe as the Warp is to 40k.

I mean, I could equally make the claim that Astarael from the Old Kingdom series could perma-kill any demons hearing it as nothing is beyond the power of death and even living gods cannot return from the ninth gate.

>>53801402
Oh, and their rivals the Time Lords were, during the Time War, planning on eliminating literally all of time.

Basically the Daleks are the utter masters of Space and the Time Lords are the utter masters of Time.

>>53801355
I have to leave now so i'll just go and leave this here and ask that you bother to read through it and puzzle out how dumb you are sounding with this speil about the warp being such an amazing win button and that somehow a galaxy busting bomb is an important attack in who-verse.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/doctor-who-feats-and-source-thread.298198/

>>53801302
>Raston Warrior Robots
Im looking for the time this happened and I'm not seeing it.

However, people are considering Cybermen on this list. Never forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN19oHTv_Vg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA6HFSFCfsE

>>53800947
Im a 40k fag but no you are wrong
>Again, small fries compared to some of the shit that WH was doing

Blowing up an entire galaxy is something beyond anyone in 40k has been shown to be capable of by a wide margin

>>53801402
>40K has absolutely nothing that demonstrates to me that they have remotely that kind of ability.

>a device, the Crucible of the Daleks, which would have wiped out literally every single thing in literally every single universe
>I take it and raise you the lifetime of eating Soylens Viridians - now that's a horror to behold.

>>53800245
They are killed temporarily, but can quickly regenerate and don't lose the number. I think the big problem with them being included in the fight is that when they fight tyranids and the tyranids absorb them is the new heartless tyranid from one faction or the other.

>>53801414
>Ok, so what killed the heartless for good at the end of kingdom hearts?

Nothing, yet. Kingdom Hearts III hasn't been released. In Kingdom Hearts I, all that happened was you sealed Kingdom Hearts from the Heartless so they couldn't get in. It's possible to lock the Heartless out of a world...but to do that, you need a Keyblade. And the lock isn't necessarily permanent.

It's possible the Heartless simply can't be defeated permanently, that they're a natural part of the universe.

>you don't think those facts are related, at all?

Only if you ignore the stated way Heartless invade worlds. More negative emotion = easier time invading ("invading" in this sense meaning entering the world). That's how it works.

>Maybe not even that, because you told me that they need to physically be in the chest of the person to get their "heart" and emotions.

No, they don't need to be physically in the chest, it's just a way they can do things. There are two ways Heartless can take over: a Heartless can physically attack you and fill your Heart with Darkness; or you can just feel a lot of negative emotion over time, which causes the Darkness in your Heart to grow, and you eventually become a Heartless as a result.

>Chaos has actual gods.

So do the Heartless? What do you think Chernabog is?

>so you're saying what a soul is is never actually defined in KH?

No, it is, I was just going from memory. Basically within the context of Kingdom Hearts, a person has three qualities: a Body, a Heart, and a Soul. The Body is your physical body; the Heart is your emotion and memories; and your Soul is your intellect and logical abilities.

Thus Heartless, which are nothing but Hearts consumed by and wrapped in Darkness, are brimming with negative emotion but have no intellect or reasoning ability. Conversely the Nobodies, who have no Heart, are intelligent (even the most basic Nobody, the Dusk, is capable of speech, something no Heartless has demonstrated).

>>53801236
The tyranid hive mind destroys all mass, melts it down and reconstructs it, it doesn't get other hive minds and absorb them

>>53801408
>I recall that cartoon

Oh you sweet young thing, the cartoon is the least of Carmen Sandiego's appearances. The game show and video games demonstrate the full breadth of her power.

Here's a list of things Carmen Sandiego has stolen. Keep in mind that none of this is meant to be metaphorical, she has *literally* stolen all of them.

All the goulash. (And later every last drop of salsa.)
The beans from Lima.
All the salt in the Dead Sea.
The Himalayas.
The Mona Lisa's smile.
The Mekong [River] from the jungle.
Saturn's rings.
The black hole at the center of the Milky Way galaxy.
Portuguese (yes, the language).
The steps to the tango.
Zero (the number).
Alphabetical order.
The Moon. With no damage to the Earth, so presumably she stole the damage too.
Countries. Too many to list.
The Bermuda Triangle. Presumably she made it get lost in itself.
The ozone layer.
THE MILKY WAY GALAXY ITSELF (somehow exlcuding the Solar System)
The World Trade Center towers (might have been better if they'd stayed stolen)
The Roman Forum
The Pantheon from Rome
The English alphabet
The letter ñ in Spanish
The Mason-Dixon Line
Tai Chi
The Hope Diamond's shine (only possibly if she somehow changed its chemical composition)
The ABC (television channel)
The International Date Line
The Internet
Various periods of history, including the American Revolution.

>>53801568

>No, it is, I was just going from memory. Basically within the context of Kingdom Hearts, a person has three qualities: a Body, a Heart, and a Soul. The Body is your physical body; the Heart is your emotion and memories; and your Soul is your intellect and logical abilities.

Weirdly enough, of all the groups the DALEKS can likely interact with Hearts. As Evil of the Daleks was about them working on what they called the Human Factor and how to manipulate it to turn humans into horrific monsters. Said Human factor is basically what Kingdom Hearts calls Hearts.

It was the basis of the Dalek Civil War. Daleks being infected with the Human Factor and being exterminated for being impure.

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>>53801724
Oh, she also stole the BEST coffee. As in, what is the best coffee should be a subjective thing, but she managed to steal what is OBJECTIVELY the best coffee.

Presumably the coffee Agatha Heterodyne made.

>>53801770
It's not that weird to me, personally. Daleks may abhor emotions besides hate, but as "Victory of the Daleks" show, they perfectly understand them and are capable of playing at least the Doctor like a fiddle when it comes to emotion.

>>53801568
> More negative emotion = easier time invading ("invading" in this sense meaning entering the world). That's how it works.
So any and all conventional methods of fighting heartless are useless? That all creatures of nature, hundreds of millions of years of evolution are completely ineffective? There's physically invulnerable and immortal? There's no way to kill them without a 3 foot key? God, KH is so fucking stupid.
>>53801244
>Genie can't kill Heartless and he has PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS
But we never see him doing anything phenomenally cosmic. Yeah, he can grant wishes, but he's never granted anything like "make me the ruler of the world/galaxy/let me be able to benchpress the world". And hercules is a demi-god. He's still mortal.
If heartless are basically weaker and less corrupting daemons, then why wouldn't faith protect against them as well? Why wouldn't chaos work against them? I'm reading a lot of "No they can't"s but not a lot of arguments or evidence.

>>53801724
Meh, still not appealing. It kinda breaks suspension of disbelief for laughs, akin to roadrunner passing through roads painted on a cliff face and walking through air. Amusing, but meh, the setting is intentionally silly.

>>53801568
>What do you think Chernabog is?
A scary devil expy meant to scare children from being lazy in The Sorceror's Apprentice?

>>53797001
>japanese = fundamentally broken
Riiiiiight.

>>53801934
>But we never see him doing anything phenomenally cosmic.

We see Jafar do. When Jafar wishes to be "an all-powerful genie" and that wish is granted, we see him visibly juggling galaxies and rearranging the cosmos on a whim...until the drawbacks of being a genie kick in.

Jafar is not demonstrated to be more poweful than Genie, simply more malevolent and creative. So anything Jafar can do, Genie can be reasonably presumed to do.

>So any and all conventional methods of fighting heartless are useless?

Pretty much. Hence why the solution to a world being invaded by Heartless is "lock the world", not simply "defeat all the Heartless."

>God, KH is so fucking stupid.

Hey, I'm not the one who put Heartless in OP. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

>but he's never granted anything like "make me the ruler of the world/galaxy/let me be able to benchpress the world"

Because no one's ever asked him. But he firmly establishes that there are only four rules:
- Ixnay on the wishing for more wishes, you only get three, no substitutions, extensions, or refunds.
- Can't kill anybody
- Can't make anybody fall in love with anybody else
- Can't bring back the dead (although technically speaking the way he says this, it's more implied that he just doesn't WANT to, not that he can't, since it's "not a pretty picture"; he just lists it among the other things he can't do and so leaves it implied that it is also something he can't do)

He never puts any other limits on his powers, however, and we are not given any reason to think that he has them.

> then why wouldn't faith protect against them as well?

Because we're never given any reason to think that the Heartless care about belief, and we DEMONSTRABLY know that magic doesn't work on them unless a Keyblade is nearby. Therefore is psychic powers = magic, then psychic powers won't work on them, either (again, unless a Keyblade is nearby).

>>53794937
>Flood infect Tyranids easily
>Tyranids beat everything else
And thus a new undying hivemind was born

>>53802044
Wait, not the sorceror's apprentice, it was Fantasia.

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The Flood and the Heartless would be the only two on the list capable of fighting the Nids effectively.

Then these guys would come in and take over.

>>53802242
The Combine were taken down by a mute nerd and a slave race, they couldn't take over a booth at McDonald's.

>>53802160
Couldn't genie just magic up a keyboard though?

How do people make them in the first place?

>>53802300
Gordon with G-Man's help and a Vortigaunt contingency took down some of their human-based forces on Earth yeah.

They control multiple universes though. With only a small rift opening they got enough troops through to conquer all of Earth in seven hours.

>>53802160
*Incidentally, if we take the Aladdin TV show as canon, then it's possible that Genie actually can grant do-overs on wishes and simply chooses not to. In the Aladdin TV show we meet a genie named Eden, who's master was a poor girl named Dhandi. When Dhandi wished for a sandwich, Eden granted the wish but then suggested that Dhandi would have been better served by wishing to never go hungry again, and allowed Dhandi a do-over.

>>53802332
Then why wouldn't, as soon as it was clear what they were up against was more than their current troop-strength could handle, they send in the cavalry?

Also, if they are so powerful as to have wiped out all of Earth's military in seven hours, why are their toughest combat units easily destroyed with a couple rockets?

ALSO also, if a small group of determined rebels can put up such a fight as to drive them off a planet, how do you think they would fare against the unending hunger, adapatability, and sheer fuck you of any of the races in the OP?

>>53802160
>Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Oh believe me, I do.
>Because we're never given any reason to think that the Heartless care about belief
There also aren't any religions in kingdom hearts, or any practicioners. There ALSO is never shown anything truly divine, or something from anything that could truly be considered pure or divine, in KH.
> and we DEMONSTRABLY know that magic doesn't work on them unless a Keyblade is nearby
Are you really saying that all magic is the same? I get that you'd have to have autism to love KH so much you'd want to argue for hours about it(I'm guilty too), but there's no such thing as a pound of magic. Magic isn't a material thing, and not all magic is created equal. We know that weaksauce FF magic doesn't work, that doesn't mean other magic won't. And psykers aren't merely people with esp, and they don't use "psychic powers". I mean they do, but it's way more complicated than that. There's multiple ways they use the warp and their soul. It's not a combustion engine where warp goes in and power goes out.
>>53802300
When Earth was conquered it was considered an outpost. The forces that got sent to take it are considered around the same you would send to secure a single warehouse. The combine empire is so much bigger than the imperium it's not funny.
>>53802242
Yeah but then orks loot all their stuff and win.

>>53802198
It was the Night on Bald Mountain Sequence in Fantasia, of which the Sorcerer's Apprentice is also part. But Chernabog is in Kingdom Hearts, as well, and is found in End of the World, the Heartless' homeworld. I think it's vaguely implied that he is Heartless himself.

>>53802319
>Couldn't genie just magic up a keyboard though?

Maybe? No one's asked.

>How do people make them in the first place?

They're all part of the original Keyblade, the χ-blade, which was not created but rather exists alongside Kingdom Hearts and is the only thing that can open it. All other Keyblades are imperfect copies of the χ-blade.

They seem to be more summoned than made. The biggest requirement seems to be that the wielder needs to have a strong Heart, though not necessarily a good one.

>>53802526
I still feel like the answer would be for the Swarmlord to use his special snowflake millennia old self to try and get his hands on a keyblade then

>>53802476
>and not all magic is created equal.

Sure, which is the crux of the problem facing psykers trying to imitate a Keyblade's magic. They can't.

Magic isn't lacking in Kingdom Hearts, either. It's a Disney production, after all. And aside from the Rules he has to follow, we're not given any reason to think that Genie has any limits on his power, and yet even HE can't harm Heartless without a Keyblade nearby.

If a being with essentially literal omnipotence can't harm the Heartless, why should I believe whatever psykers the Tyrannids have at their disposal can? What do they bring to the table that Genie can't?

>>53802609
>Magic isn't lacking in Kingdom Hearts, either
But it really is. Waving your hands, saying a few latin words, and then having sparkles or touhou bullets appear or a man turning into a chicken isn't that great of magic.
>If a being with essentially literal omnipotence can't harm the Heartless
If he can't even do that he's not omnipotent at all. But you know what, I give up. I think we can all agree that mary sue is the GOAT star trek character, and that bad writing is the greatest superpower a hero or villain can possibly have. You win, heartless are literally god. Only makes me wonder why there are kingdom hearts games to begin with if the heartless are so immortal and so undefeatable and so good at transforming everything from people to flowers to coffee tables into heartless.

>>53802609
So wait.

Why didn't the Genie just give himself a keyblade then? So that the retarded story lasted longer than 5 minutes?

>>53798604
>leading it to being "killed" by a guy with a gun.
That being said, they're still faster than anyone else (YES, INCLUDING THE NIDS) when it comes to 'consuming planets'.

Nids on average take roughly 50 days to strip an entire planet of biomass. 100 if there's hard resistance.

The Flood (OG and modern day) can infect an entire planet in a single goddamn week.

There's a very good reason why the Elites glassed a huge chunk of Africa after a Flood-infected cruiser crashed there (and would've glassed the rest of it if they weren't teaming up with humanity at the time).

Seriously though, if we're going universe at max OPness versus universe at max OPness, then it's Forerunner-era Flood vs Nids, and the Flood are going to win that one every single time.

And yes, the Domain is back, and it's been theorized by a lot of fans that the Key Mind might have left a 'psychic impression' for lack of a better term inside it, corrupting anything that accessed it with its logic plague.

>>53802773
Probably. It's not like 40K isn't full of people doing dumb shit for stupid reasons that don't make sense even with context.

Either that, or maybe he just can't make Keyblades. I dunno.

>>53802730
>or a man turning into a chicken isn't that great of magic.

Merlin (The Sword in the Stone) is in Kingdom Hearts. In The Sword in the Stone, Merlin demonstrates the ability to accurately travel through time, a feat which is not possible in 40K (the Warp might allow you to travel through time, but you can't target where you go - you might end up in the past or the future).

Disney usually prefers to show the more flashy, material stuff. That does not mean that the mages in Disney are incapable of more esoteric, subtle, or powerful forms of magic.

>>53794937
It'd invariably come down to the nids and the borg. I don't even know why those other entries are up there, unless they're just assimilation fodder for the borg. The flood might have a chance but they can't infect machines, but the borg can assimilate them. Xenomorphs are only dangerous on a space ship full of morons. Cybermen are only a threat to the idiots populating the Doctor Who universe. And the heartless are a fucking joke.

>>53802609
>Donald and Goofy can kill heartless single handed
>they don't have keyblades

Give up. The heartless are a joke.

>>53802609
>tyranids grow independent hearts en mass
>give them to the heartless
>they either disappear or become human or whatever the fuck convoluted garbage is currently going on in the kingdom hearts storyline
>devoured

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>>53801724
And Wally's heart.

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>A new player has joined the game.

are people making the assumption that borg are weak against these opponents because of species 8472?

remember that borg have strong beam weaponry they use both in space and on ships. they probably wouldn't even consider planetary combat (where nids and flood excel).

borg can also outmaneuver everyone else in the list, this is yuge when it comes to executing strategies.

i dont know shit about heartless except that they are phase shift beings, and due to star trek jargon, borg would adapt and still be able to hit them with their beam weaponry.

another big question is whether borg would be able to adapt their shields to stop hits from each of the other races. just having shields that work would give them another huge advantage.

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I think in the original script, the xenomorph was meant to win and fake Ripley's final message. The first xenomorph has an higher level of sadism and intelligence than later incarnations.

>>53803381
Except - once again - once Sora was no longer nearby, Donald and Goofy observably couldn't even harm a Shadow, let alone the more powerful Heartless.

>>53803425
A "Heart' isn't a physical thing in the Kingdom Heats universe, or at least it doesn't refer to the organ pumping blood in your chest.

>>53803537
The Borg can't physically harm the Heartless, but that's not the big problem (they do have better tactical FTL, no doubt).

No, the problem is that while individual Borg drones probably don't have to worry about the Heartless, the Borg Queen does, as she demonstrably feels hate, rage, jealousy, envy, greed, and all the other negative emotions that feed the Heartless.

Any Borg fight with the Heartless just results in the Queen eventually getting corrupted by the Heartless and becoming a Heartless herself, one that is interfaced with the entire Collective and so spreads the Heartless through the entire Collective. Every Borg drone becomes Heartless.

>>53803565
Correct, that was the original ending.

>>53800255
Mondasian cybermen are back as of the last couple series.
>>53800070
This is a new Mondasian cybermen.

>>53802242
Cybermen do it better then either. No emotions+ Are objectively the most op technologically.

>>53801232
The Borg queen was an exception and didn't have her invividualism supressed unlike the drones. It was her function and presumably having such a presence functioning parallel to the actual Collective was beneficial. A bit similar to how the Locutus of Borg was intended to be an invividual instead of a drone except with more power over the Collective.

As for the rest of the Collective, the drones were emotionless when fullfilling their function but still had some remnants of emotions as seen with the ones disconnected from the Collective and the abnormal drones that dreamed during regeneration. So unlike the lobotimized Cybermen emotions were still presumably possible but almost entirely non-existent while part of the Collective.

I remember that Hugh never had any memory of ever being an individual. Then Voyager happens, and they say that the Borg don't reproduce, only assimilate (ignoring the borg babies and all of that).

Fucking hacks. They turned an advanced species into space zombies.

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Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation/Doctor Who: Assimilation2?

Something like that would likely happen. Cybermen contacting the Borg and Borg thinking that they will assimilate Cybermen technology but being too autistic to realize the danger of having their own Collective hijacked instead.

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*teleports behind you*
*kills the tyranids, flood, aliens, borg, and cybermen because they all once had a crush as a kid who didn't like them back so they're all liable to possession*
*has less personality than a necron*
*gets killed by the super-ultra-special-unique-magic key left under the mat that a homosexual sixteen year old in clown shoes picked up*
psssshh.... nothin personell, kid.

>>53803992
That's a good point. the cybermen btfo'd the star trek galaxy with ease.

>>53804127
Again, blame OP, not me. I didn't come up with any of the Heartless' traits, I just know them.

If I were OP I wouldn't have included the Heartless, I would have included Stargate's Replicators. And I wouldn't have included the xenomorphs, I'd have, I dunno, the Long One from the movie Slither, or The Thing, or something.

>>53804205
The thing would've been assimilated by the flood almost immediately.

>>53804263
Ehhhhhh. It's a tossup. Flood is magic flu but thing has complete understanding of everything going on in it's body.

>>53804303
A doctor could know everything there is to know about the human body. It wouldn't help him one bit if he was in the vacuum of space.

>>53802449
>Then why wouldn't, as soon as it was clear what they were up against was more than their current troop-strength could handle, they send in the cavalry?

They tried to by opening up a massive portal but that plan went to shit. They just took advantage of the Resonance's
>Also, if they are so powerful as to have wiped out all of Earth's military in seven hours, why are their toughest combat units easily destroyed with a couple rockets?

Because for them, Earth is this shitty innawoods outpost barely worth protecting after being stripped bare of resources. Is it really worth it to keep their best units on Earth when they have other shit to fight? Just conscript your new slave race to keep order and move on.
>ALSO also, if a small group of determined rebels can put up such a fight as to drive them off a planet, how do you think they would fare against the unending hunger, adapatability, and sheer fuck you of any of the races in the OP?

They are a multi-dimensional empire, we literally have no idea what other overpowered armies they may have. The shit you face in HL2 and its episodes are mostly brainwashed cybernetic humans and a few aliens there to add a little bulk to its forces. Also they weren't driven off the planet, merely isolated after the Citadel's destruction and portal's closure.

>>53804352
It would help if he could change his biology at will to specifically kill the invading flood virus.
Actually the analogy fails badly because the thing can absolutely survive deep space anyway.

It's also smart enough in it's pathetic state during the film to build a space ship out of scraps which the base flood wouldn't be able to do.

>>53802954
> And yes, the Domain is back, and it's been theorized by a lot of fans that the Key Mind might have left a 'psychic impression' for lack of a better term inside it, corrupting anything that accessed it with its logic plague.
This sounds cool, you have any links where I could read about this? I know the basic stuff about 5's plot and seeing the Created get corrupted by the Gravemind sounds pretty dangerous.
Also, the Flood just returning in Halo Wars 2

>>53804457
But the flood would win by sheer attrition. Maybe a better analogy would be a doctor can know everything there is to know about the human body, but that still wouldn't help him if he was covered in napalm?

Gravemind Halo: Silentium

Our urge to create is immutable; we must create. But the beings we create shall never again reach out in strength against us.
All that is created will suffer. All will be born in suffering, endless grayness shall be their lot. All creation will tailor to failure and pain, that never again shall the offspring of the eternal Fount rise up against their creators.
Listen to the silence. Ten million years of deep silence. And now, whimpers and cries; not of birth. That is what we bring: a great crushing weight to press down youth and hope.
No more will. No more freedom. Nothing new but agonizing death and never good shall come of it.
We are the last of those who gave you breath and form, millions of years ago. We are the last of those your kind defied and ruthlessly destroyed. We are the last Precursors. And now we are legion."

Flood win this.

>>53802300
>>53802332
>>53804355
>>53802449

Begs the question, G-Man directly interfering vs all of the OP factions - who wins?

Tyranids simply due to greater numbers. They are so numerous that the galaxy is having trouble dealing with just the scout forces. The main body is yet to arrive. Does any one of us think there will be any resistance left in said galaxy by the time it arrives?

It is like asking who would win between all of china's soldiers and all of new zealand's soldiers.

>>53800992
>A matter of scale - Heartless simply cannot be much of a threat if a single kid with oversized, unwieldy key and two muppets are able to effectively mow down mainstay troops of the enemy in melee.

Except that oversized key is literally the only thing that can dispose of them in any meaningful way. Anything else just has them pop back up later. Even Exterminatus and glassing whatever world they're currently infesting would only slow them down slightly and they'd just pack back in a short time later.

>>53801568
>It's possible the Heartless simply can't be defeated permanently, that they're a natural part of the universe.

I'm going with this since they existed long before the events of the games, they just weren't that much of a widespread problem until someone started experimenting on them and manufacturing artificial heartless.

>>53805161

>Cybermen pretty much stalemate an empire that controls a thousand galaxies and ended with a galaxy getting exploded.

>Nids can't curbstomp the galaxy they are currently at war with.


Hmmmmmmm......

>>53803338
>the heartless are a fucking joke
only to keyblade wielders.

to literally everything else, they can be beaten up, not destroyed - there's a reason that by the time KH1 starts, FFVII, FFVIII, FFX-2, the lion king, and numerous other universes are swallowed by the Darkness. The heartless are supposedly neverending, basically the Warp made manifest, but with a hunger for emotion and unable to be beaten by itself like Chaos is.

>>53804127
I honestly have a hard time taking anything made by Disney that seriously.

Just curious, why is it when there's galactic threats like these in Japanese-originating media, they are retardedly over-the-top powerful, like even moreso than 40k.

I mean I remember this one thing called the BETA or whatever utilizing literally Titan-size creatures on the scale of Tyranids using Hormagaunts.

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>>53809300
Blame it on small dicks and industry oneupsmanship.

Then again marvel, dr who, and D.C(the 3 strongest settings) are all western.

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>>53810334
Then again marvel, dr who, and D.C(the 3 strongest settings)
>strongest settings

Pickup a book sometime.

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Leave those scrubs to me

>>53810517
*This* rabbit hole.

Daleks>xeelee. This specific debate has been solved years ago.

>>53805161
Except that the Tyrannids literally can't hurt the Heartless, for reasons outlined in this thread.

Even if they could, the Heartless don't have biomass for them to absorb, and one of the Heartless' MOs is consuming a world and dragging it into the Realm of Darkness piece by piece, which denies the Tyrannids biomass as well.

>>53799164
They'd probably breed with then be consumed by the nids and make the nids faction have acid for blood or strangley sensual bodylines or someshit

>>53812859
Couldn't they just become so efficient at beating the heartless into submission that they aren't a threat. Sure the nids can't DESTROY the heartless, but that doesn't mean they can't out compete and overrun them. If goofy can beat some of the heartless off why can't the nids develop some kind of heartless hunting creature that just beats heartless down faster than the heartless can send mooks to the frontlines. I mean humanity may never destroy cancer, but people beat it all the time.

>>53797801
This.
Another major issue with heartless is that they tend to take the form of things native to a world. And they go to such lengths that they will turn pots into more heartless, fucking pots. Space Paranoids shows that they can turn data into heartless as well, meaning they will adapt very quickly to every other faction.
The good thing is that they would be very spread out without a sentient to lead them, their achilles heel basically.

>>53798844
Wouldn't heartless also get psykers? Then we have the question of what happens when the warp rubs up to the realm of darkness. We'd have deamonic heartless running around.

>>53799804
>But the moment you do crossover and thus keyblade magic exists in some form, it's something you can get at through warp.
But how would the nids know about keyblades at all? It's more likely they'd try to use warp magic to absorb the heartless.

>>53813549
That seems to be the best way for the nids to deal with the heartless, really.
Pop them repeatedly (not kill) with a neverending swarm of hormagaunts and eat the planet before the heartless can drag it off. They lose their retarded 100% efficiency (fuckan 40k bullshit nonsense logic) from whatever gets converted over, but it should still be a net gain for them and they don't care if someone else later does something with a useless, barren rock once they've left.