Why do people seem obsessed with "gritty" and "realistic"

Personally I'm in plenty of heroic games and I'm having a great time.

There's nothing wrong with gritty or 'realistic' games though. They're not to my tastes, but I won't talk down to anyone for enjoying them.

What does annoy me is when people try to assert grit and 'realism' where they aren't necessary. Going on about wounds being infected in D&D, or trying to make gunpowder the 'real' way even though you're in a setting where the four alchemical elements are the foundations of reality, not the periodic table.

People act like 'realism' is a necessary component of everything, when it really isn't. Thematic, narrative and metaphysical things can define and underpin a setting just as effectively, creating just as consistent and logical a world even if it operates by different rules.

Your pasta is stale. I want a refund.

>>53700329
It's what's trendy in popular culture right now, see Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones. Couple this with the culture of condescension towards "Sue" characters plus a general belief in moral relativism and you've got an environment where everyone is disinclined to enjoy the simplicity of good vs. evil stories. They often see them as juvenile and childish.

It's just modern taste, and eventually the pendulum will swing back in the King Arthur, Lord of the Rings good vs. evil type direction.

Well uh, last time I was a player in a game I was a bard who went around singing badly while our entire party buffed the hell out of an italian mobster orc and a paladin until they could turn slavers, demons, rogue summoner-dragons, and evil alter-egos into fine red mist.
And we saved about forty slaves and the paladin's tiny daughter.

So...I can't say that's happened to me. Maybe it just depends on the group and the systems they prefer. Gritty is a lot easier to do in WoD than D&D.

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Simplistic good vs. evil is for tiny children.
Grit, realism, and moral greyness are hallmarks of maturity.

You play with shitty players (probably exclusively online like the rest of the redditors on here) if nobody wants to do anything but grit and greyness
My guys play stuff from unlikely heroes rising to the challenge to monstrous villains
But we also play more than one system to do so and game rather frequently

If you really want to improve, play that shit to death and run/play the story you want to see, granted the system supports it

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>>53700462
>hating Kenshiro
He just wants his wife back.

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>>53700462

>>53700329
See, I like settings where everyone is basically decent and even vicious, long-standing problems can be resolved peacefully if people are willing to work hard enough. That's technically "morally grey," but for some reason the term is more often employed to refer to the sort of story where it's widely acknowledged that everyone commits the odd war crime, and the scales of justice are balanced by an even distribution of genocides.

So, you know, I'm firmly anti-gritty, in terms of personal preferences, but not all that enthusiastic about irredeemable evil either. Why are those so often the only choices?

>>53700847
So you're more Nobledark than Grimbright?

>>53700329
Why do that man's eyes look like they're bulging out so much? Is he possessed by some kind of parasite wearing him as a disguise? Or does he just suffer from proptosis?

>>53700983
Are you saying you wouldn't ogle if you bumped into a pair of superheroes?

>>53700462

Your kind of pathetic, you know that? You sound like my nephew, obsessed with trying to come of as mature and act adult, not even realizing that doing so highlights your immaturity. Here's a pro tip, mature people don't give a shit about what's "mature". They aren't trying to act mature, they aren't trying to prove their mature. They are sure in their maturity, so they just don't worry about it.

>>53700329
Because the world is being run by deconstructivists.
Kids these days are being raised to believe that by their very existance they're causing harm to someone else in whatever thirldworldistan non-nation the media has a hard on for this week.

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>>53700462
take your (you) and fuck off.

>>53700367
>trying to make gunpowder the 'real' way
Being a forensic ballistics analyst, when the resident /k/ommando in our group tried to make gunpowder to take over the world with his beloved boomsticks, I made sure to be every bit as anal about it as he was, and of course he blew himself up.
He went through nine characters before his last alchemist got shot by a hand cannon that used the much safer and easier to make guncotton. So he gave up on gunpowder and made a wind rifle instead.

>>53704864
I never unsterstood why Players never tried to make guncotton. It's way better, and you can justify it by saying that when trying to make a flask of acid, the Alchemist spillied aqua fortis on his cotton shirt.

>>53705641
Me neither, it's stupid. Air guns and modern crossbows are perfectly within the capabilities of a dwarven/elven ironsmith or a gnome tinkerer. And nitrocelulose is something you may actually find in a curious alchemist's laboratory who wasn't even trying to make guns. But no, the have to go the most esoteric, time consuming and difficult way for their mighty gun.

It's indistinct from the weaboo wanting to forge his superior nippon blade by folding it a billion times when adamantite and orichalcum are avaliable, and dwarves use pattern welding for vanity kitchenware.

>>53700329
Because real life is miserable, and it isn't black and white.

It's much more inspiring to see heroes succeed against the same sort of struggles we face day-to-day, or worse, than it is to see them succeed in a world where success is a given.

It's ironic, but gritty settings are better at inspiring hope. That, despite all the shit, things can still turn out okay. Not perfect maybe, but okay.

>>53700329
>you can have a fleshed out antagonist without a sympathetic reason for being evil.
Tou can't. A good vilain must be a hero in his own eyes - otherwise he'd lack a motication to actually do something big scale.

>>53705976
Yes, but also no.

A man knows what he's doing is wrong when he steals a princess so she can be a bride. He just doesn't care. He wants a bride.

The same man uses his skeleton army he's amassed to take over a town because he wants it. He knows it's wrong, but he wants that town.

He never claims to be a hero, but he can still be fleshed out.

>>53706052
That's not a good villain, though.

>>53706052
That's some petty two-dimensional vilains

>>53700329
while I agree that what you describe is, or at least was for a time a dominant fad, it seems to be falling back with fairly recent uptick in superhero reboots.

I'd be careful with words like "everyone".

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>>53700329
because that's what older children think being "adult" means, and since the 50's, older children have controlled a larger portion of the expendable income than any other demographic. Therefore, when trying to make money off of a hobby, appealing specifically to that demographics is what matters.

>>53700329
So that the autists here would have something to whine about.

>>53706155
>>53706087
People are pretty two dimensional.

See, there a drunk guy, he's pissing on your shoes because he though it'd be hilarious.

There's his firend, he's stomping your head because he dropped his beer and you are easy to blame.

>>53706408
You have a really simplistic and shallow view of the world.

>>53700329
Maybe they want to feel miserable, I don't know for sure though.

>>53706420
Just a realistic one, never had any antagonists take their time to deliver a moving exposition about their cruel pasts, the state of society or the necessity for immediate drastic reformation of the economic system.

>>53706087
He is though. Different villains serve different purposes. A character who thinks he's doing the right thing doesn't do things that are blatantly evil unless he can justify it, and the worse the crime, the dumber the justification. Eventually he ends up being so far down his ideology, he becomes a joke.

The bigger the evil, the less justified it can be. I could write a paragraph here about why the villain blew up a continent trying to justify the senseless murder, or it could have just been in the way.

tl:dr The bigger the evil, the less justification it can have.

>>53700329
It bugs me that people keep associating realistic with grim and oppressive. It strikes me as needlessly pessemestic and more than a little inaccurate

>>53705976

Eh, someone can be a villain in his own mind as long as he thinks it's for a good reason. A spymaster could easily consider himself a complete monster for what he does but that it's needed for the nation as a whole to stand.

>>53706443
>that's a boring and shallow motivation
>ITS REALISTIC REEEEEEEEEEEEE
You're the reason this thread exists.

>>53706493
never said ree, just stating facts.

>>53706454
Dude, people right now think Trump is killing gays and women for fun.
People are so bored of their easy, meaningless lives they need to make up reasons why they're some sort of "#resist"ance.

>>53700462
>hates on Kenshiro
>posts Akagi, who's just as much of a moralfag

This has to be satire, like Johnathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal".

>>53706510
Wait, he isn't?
But that's why I voted for him/

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>>53700462
Simplistic Good vs Evil is for children, yes. Needlessly edgy or nihilistic grey on grey is, however, for teens.

More complex stories about good and evil are top-tier. Confronting the past, striving towards your ideals, pulling others out of their corrupt or apathetic funks, and generally working to improve on things in an imperfect world.

I GM'd some realist shit for a time when I needed to process real life issues. It's a way to get control over things happening to you. It was tedious and unfun so I quickly stopped being a fag forcing gritty realism on my friends who wanted to have fun. Went full retard and GM'd darksiders meets mad max. Good fun was had.

>>53706526

No that's what Pence is doing.

Depends on the group.

My group does heroic shit when the game calls for it. It just happens we love "darker" games like Shadowrun, World of Darkness, and 40k.

D&D is pretty much nonstop heroics tho.

>>53700329
Because of the economy.

>>53706557
Any recommendations?

>>53706515
>like Johnathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"
You'd almost forget it's satire, given that some pro-choice fags unironically use some of the arguments Swift uses to justify eating Irish babies.

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>>53700462

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>>53700329
Nothing beats being a noblebright character in a grimdark world, prove me wrong.
Don't even bother, you literally can't

>>53700379
There's not that much moral ambiguity in Breaking Bad. Hell, the whole point of the show is that Walter is a piece of shit who chose his pride over ethics. He's a great example of a fleshed out monster though.

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>>53700488

Are there really people who play RPGs online? I always thought this was just a meme, like how everyone on /tv/ pretends to be kiss-less virgins.

>>53706964
>pretend

>>53707004

>/tv/ is actually populated by 10/10 bisexual girls with millions of dollars just looking for the love of a good Anon. Anyone who pretends to not be those things is just roleplaying because that is their favorite hobby.

>>53706248
Still the dumbest screenshot of all time.
There's absolutely no reason to put any alignment on a pedestal like that. The story being captured isn't even an argument for why LG is the best, it's just a statement that it is.
Nobody goes through those steps. The idea is ridicilous. It's not an epiphany that you can play an anti-hero, it's not more freeing to play an anti-hero and it's not an extatic experience to re-discover the straightforward hero.

I do think people that dismiss grit as childish are immature. Grit introduces depth, it's just not the kind of depth you need in every story, least of all zany magical adventure.

>>53707352
>grit introduces depth

whoa so deep

>>53705976
Dio is an excellent example of an unsympathetic but still likable villain. Abused by his alcoholic father does not give someone a free pass to become a vampire and go on a killing spree.

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>>53707352
>Nobody goes through those steps.
I literally did.
>I do think people that dismiss grit as childish are immature. Grit introduces depth,
Grit is A way to introduce depth, but not THE way, and it does not guarantee depth either. If storytelling is cooking, then grit chili-powder. Lots of good things have chili-powder. Lots of shit dishes have chili-powder. Chili-powder can improve many dishes. Chili-powder can ruin many dishes. Finally, there are a bunch of insufferable teenage hipsters who insist on drenching fucking everything in chili-powder and /or Sriracha. These people suck.

>>53700329
Eat a bowl of ducks and fuck off back to /co/ you capefaggot.

>>53706829
In his demeanor yes, Walter is a piece of shit who choice pride over ethics, but atleast in his intent, he keeps doing it to help his family and himself.

As well, Jesse Pinkman is also a fairly morally ambigious character.

>>53700329
They're a bunch of Batman/Watchmen loving twats, that's what.

>>53708364
As a connoisseur of analogies, and the crafter of the "Anime is like DVDs" analogy, I applaud your work.
Kudos.

>>53707017
>/tg/ is actually populated by just one very, very drunk Finn arguing with himself. Anyone who pretends otherwise is just more drunk than usual, less drunk than usual, or role-playing because that is their favorite hobby.

>>53700329
>It seems like stories in RPG's can no longer be about larger than life heroes and fantastical villains.
That's literally almost entirely all that D&D 5e is, though. The system doesn't really support anything else very well. It's best for settings with WoW-tier levels of high magic. If you try to use 5e to run a game set in a gritty, low magic setting, it will fall short of other systems more suited to those themes. Judging by the popularity of 5e, I wouldn't quite say that everyone is looking for gritty, low magic games. If that were the case, systems like Fantasy Craft, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and Symbaroum would be more popular, but they're not.

>>53710090
Unfortunately people try to force gritty low magic campaigns in 5E, 5E is popular due to brand image

>>53710090
Read it again.
OP was not speaking of high/low magic.
Fair point otherwise though.

>>53700367
Fpbp

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>>53700329
You know, people use GoT as some primary example of this ideology but George made full use of the alignment chart. On one end you have guys like Ned and Jon Snow and on the other end SOBs like Joffrey and Ramsey and The Mountain. In total contrast to dumb statements like this

>>53705976

I feel a dose of gritty realism keeps a game on the rails.

You get dickery and murderhoboing because there are no consequences and murderhoboing is an efficient way to play the game. But those things are deterimental to actual role playing and story telling.

You'll find there's less dickery with NPCs if the cruel hand of realism is there to punish PCs for being ridiculous.

No one is going to spit on the duke if that gets them sentenced to be hung by the neck until dead. If you have a complete rascal in your group, give them an out one time, like the Duke offering them a pardon for the dipshit in question if they'll perform a task for him under the table. I guarantee one of two things will happen:
1) They won't do it a second time, and will reign themselves in a bit
2) They'll put so much effort into successfully carrying out dickery that it will go from random dickery to actual story event material.

>>53700329

I dunno, man. If a setting's gritty, you can just go "You know, I don't even have to PRETEND to be a good guy. I can just do whatever."

That's very freeing.

>>53710587
Low fantasy and low magic are tied to "gritty, down-to-earth" themes in most cases. I concede that they are not one and the same, though.

>>53710755
I don't think you need to have gritty realism in order to have something as simple as consequences.

The PC harasses a random lady on the street. Turna out she's a witch and turns him into a frog, or makes it so his hands turn intangible at inconvenient moments.

Just because theres consequences for the bad things players do doesn't mean they just get clubbed to death by guards and then thrown on a corpse pile

>>53700329

A mix kind of works. For instance, our DM has an urban fantasy game where the PCs are all monster-hunting Christian knights. The thing is, the PCs are fanatical zealots raised by secret societies. They have the ultimate sanction.

Like, by another name, the PCs are religious fundamentalists who lead terror cells. It doesn't mean they're not heroic, but it also means they kill people and they do so without blinking.

>>53710876

While that's true, I never said anything like 'kill them with guards if they step out of line." My example was extreme in both the action done and the consequences thereof.

But what you suggest is the exact opposite of my entire theory of DMing.

What you suggest is rewriting the world to punish a player for their actions.

>haha that woman is actually a witch and curses you!

meanwhile I merely play out what would happen, no changes involved, if someone essentially assaulted a member of nobility.

If I used at your based example, PC harasses a random lady, I'd have news of harassing the woman spread through town and have people start treating the PCs like bad customers, maybe upcharge them on basic stuff and do small folksy stuff to let them know they're not wanted around these parts.

I wouldn't have the fucking guard show up and shatter skulls.

But consequences should flow NATURALLY from actions. Not random DM Fiat punishment.

>>53710954

So they're ISIS?

>>53706444
According to who? The genocide is one of the biggest evils on the face of the planet, and the perpetrators didn't have a hard time justifying it to themselves at all.

>>53711098

They're more like the Knights Templar, or the Illuminati.

>>53700329
They lack imagination.

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>>53711991

>>53711103
>it's okay to murder people by the thousands as long as it's not racially motivated

>>53700329
Because races =/= individuals, fucking hell.

>>53706821
Well, it depends on whether the DM is willing to cater to your character or not. It's about making a character that fits well into the particular campaign
>stop a mugging
>get jumped by the entire gang later

or

>mug someone
>get fucked by knights errant
are both scenarios which might happen when you just made a wrong character.

Still miss the ultra-pragmatic villain of the week Ahriman who accidentally turned all of his faction into mindless automatons and went "well fuck, worked beyond expectations" and proceeded to ruthlessly exploit them in the pursuit of godhood.

Instead of the rewrite who went "Reeee" and acts like a guilt-ridden four year old.

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>>53700462
>Hall mark of maturity
>This is a post on a Korean BBQ forum in 2017

>>53710716

The problem is GoT makes evil the only option to survive. People like Joffrey and The Mountain get to die in gilded coffins while the noble heroes get their families killed due to being too nice.

Or This is the Policr where being the ruthless tough on crime cop gets you a bullet.

>>53700329
I think it is less wanting gritty/realistic and more people being sick of so many GMs making sure no one ever dies, even fudging rolls to keep people alive.

>>53705641
>>53705922
If you're in a position where you can make guncotton for use in weapons then you're probably also able to produce nitroglycerin for same, and thereby basic compositions of smokeless propellant. The problem is obtaining the acids you need in sufficiently concentrated form.

Important thing is actually related to damage.

How do you figure out how much damage a gun does if you don't use a realistic standard for damage. If the PC's are normalish dudes, and the have like 50 to 100 HP while a gun does 1d6 damage, how does that make any sense when they're shot in the back of the head.

>>53700329
Because the only way to have fun is with grittiness and realistic.

This is exactly why Marvel is better than DC.

DC = LOL GODS XD

It's literally a universe made by "that kid", where every hero gets the upper hand whenever he pleases because they are all gods with infinite power.

Meanwhile marvel goes for the realistic ground based approach of "mutants", and while there are a few reality destroyers like Scarlet, the meat of the universe doesn't center around literal memegods. Its about realism, like The Punisher.

/enough said

>>53706821
>noblebright character
0/10 see me after class

>>53711098
Yes, but Christian.

>>53711148
>implying the Knights Templar weren't their age's equivalent of Isis, only Christian.
Also, the Bovarian Illuminati were anti-religious.

>>53718058
>If the PC's are normalish dudes, and the have like 50 to 100 HP while a sword does 1d6 damage, how does that make any sense when they're stabbed in the back of the head.

It's not only guns, anon, - it's all weapons. HP represents a mix of toughness, luck, and knowing how to minimize or power through a wound as cinematically appropriate.

>>53718582
>>53718058
HP is Stamina.

Sure he shot you, but you had to spend (-50HP) to dogde it.

Only the final hit counts, its the one that brings you down.

>>53700329
That picture always makes me feel happy

>>53711103
The greater good does not a good character make. It's a shit concept for babies.

>>53718784
>The greater good
THE GREATER GOOD

>>53700329
It really grinds my gears when I hear people claim shit like Lord of the rings is "boring" because it's just straight up good vs evil.

Like bitch fuck off your entire genre was created from the scraps Tolkien left for you. Show some respect nigga.

>>53718816
Lord of the rings is fucking trash. Generic memeshit.

You are like the dude that gets angry because people shit on Mario.
>b-but he saved the industry!
No one gives a fuck, Mario is trash and didn't create anything interesting, much like Lord of the Rings.

Warhammer deserves all the praise Lord of the Rings gets.

LotR is generic trash.

>>53706454
I believe it's called "edgy".

It's from teenage game of thrones faggots who think "everything is just perspective man, like that bad guy isn't really bad, we should try to understand him, let shades of grey"

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>>53718857

>>53718629
Why even call it hitpoints then? Just rename it to "fate points" or something.

>>53718857
fuck off ADB

>>53718857
>Generic memeshit

Nigger that shit was first being written almost 100 years ago. It literally invented the modern fantasy genre. Since then, every DnD stereotype is only a stereotype because of LotR

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I agree and disagree. I like heroes that are genuinely good, but not in the sense that they never even feel the temptation or struggle of evil.

Simplistic good v evil is for kids, but grey v grey is dumb too. Something in between, with genuinely evil yet somehow sympathetic and understandable villains and just yet flawed heroes is where it's at

>>53719017
>It literally invented the modern fantasy genre.
Again, so did Mario.

It doesn't matter who did it first, it matters who did it better.

Stop playing D&D. The other 2 baiters don't even deserve my (You)

>>53718629
I really don't like this meta-narrative mechanic. It's so granular without utilizing the granularity outside of massive damage, which really ruins the whole point of them as a meta-narrative mechanic.Why does losing half in one go mean all of it should go?

>>53718816
Lord of the Rings is boring though, BECAUSE it's the basis of fantasy, not in spite of it. LotR is a great foundation, but that's all it is. Building something on top of it is what makes it interesting.

>>53719080
>Why does losing half in one go mean all of it should go?
What?

>>53719100
I think he means massive damage mechanics. where if you take half your health in damage you need to roll a save.

>>53719082
It's just stupid to call it "boring" and "cliche" when you look at the context. Sure, if someone wrote that today, it would be crap. But it was written before wizards with hats and staffs, and plucky halflings, and dour dwarves, and Noble elves, etc. were the norm. It's sort of silly to call it boring when it pioneered these things. It's only "boring" BECAUSE it became the standard.

>>53718629
Explain falling damage, then.

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>>53719082
>>53719017
>>53719013
>>53718906
Here you go.

Claiming Lord of the rings is the objectively better building and that it deserves any respect is the most retarded thing you could ever claim. Yes, Tolkien 'invented' men with pointy ears and tiny people scattered in forests or mountains. Yet, Tolkien didn't do it justice to any of them. All he created, in his entire shitty life was a concept, he couldn't even expand on it. He was that shitty.

I cringe everytime I heard someone speaking well of Lord of the Rings.

>>53719143
>Reading comprehension

I never said it was boring back then. It was revolutionary back then. BECAUSE people tried to emulate and improve on it for so long, makes it boring NOW. The ideas weren't cliche'd then, but they are now because so many people wrote so many things similarly to Tolkien that people got bored of it.

>>53719131
Oh, no. The -50HP was just an example. I didn't mean to say I agree with making guns realistic.

>>53719268
You roll

>53719283
Man you are trying pretty hard for those (you)s.

>>53718994
Because some hit points are from being big and tough and the rest are from experience and energy.
>>53719049
Grey vs. grey can be fine when the actions of both sides can be understood in context. What's irritating is something like WoW grey vs. grey where every once in awhile one side has to have a leader do something completely stupid or get "corrupted" just so the other side can look like more of a good guy in comparison.

>>53719326
I'm sorry, he got me.

>>53719283
My post >>53719082 literally said LotR is boring. Are you actually retarded or incapable of reading comprehension? It seems like it. I suggest going back to primary/elementary school. They might be able to help you.

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>>53719321
Uhuh, so hitting the fucking ground at terminal velocity didn't damage my meat points, it just made me really god damn unlucky for the rest of the day, until the cleric uses FUCKING 'CURE WOUNDS' TO MAKE ME MORE LUCKY, is that it?

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>>53719392
>play shitty nonsensical system
>someone suggests an imperfect solution
>BUT WHY DOESN'T THIS SITUATION HERE MAKE SENSE

>>53719392
>so hitting the fucking ground at terminal velocity didn't damage my meat points
No, it didn't. You fell right into a bush and then rolled on the ground to minimize the damage.

Until you actually fall unconscious/die, you don't actually take permanent damage.

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>>53719385
>>53719326
Just for you.

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>>53719456

>>53700368
here is your (you)
don't spend it all in one thread!

>>53719506
Nice, you are my fucking man!

>>53718015
You mean, you don't have a stable of Giant Bombardier Beetles, so you can harvest their acid for your alchemical concoctions near your workshop?

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>>53719434
Really, you're going to make THAT argument? That shit applies to any system with healing and hitpoints.
The fact is that hitpoints make no fucking sense and have zero corrolation to reality, BUT THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. They're a simplified conceit, a purely gamist invention that facilitates an approximation the character has to death. It's not a bad thing, but rather an easy solution to a problem that makes no sense for an actual character to have awareness of. Even less if its luck or some shit.

>>53719435
And this arguement opens a can of worms where we have to wonder if the 10/100 hp character looks discernably different to a 10/10 hp character; any type of healing is absurd, in character, if we accept this as a solution.

>>53719650
Healing is simply stamina recovery, it doesn't need an explanation. It does the exact same shit it used to do. It gives you the ability to continue fighting.

>And this arguement opens a can of worms where we have to wonder if the 10/100 hp character looks discernably different to a 10/10 hp character
Unless your group actually roleplays wounds, that is irrelevant. And no, it shouldn't look the same, the 10/100 looks like someone about to pass out after exercising for horus, the 10/10 looks in top form. Its about percentages of your total stamina available.

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>>53719544
>keeping a stable of giant, fuming nitric acid–producing beetles

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>>53719721
>They don't have a ring that allows them to control vermin.

>>53719718
>Unless your group actually roleplays wounds, that is irrelevant.
Your... your group doesn't roleplay the effects of a battle?

>>53719650
Also, in real life your HP is your stamina, you can't continue fighting if you don't have energy. It really isn't a can of worms, everything is exactly the same as before. You can even go and say "he slashes his sword at your arm, you bleed for a bit", it doesn't affect the stamina part as long as you don't say "he slashes his sword at your arm, cutting your artery, you are now bleeding" which implies he will probably lose the arm if not die by the end of the fight, so HP or not, its not realistic or has common sense.


>>53719805
Sadly, my group cries like a bitch at the minimal crippling. So the GM avoids that. Sucks, would love to have a hook as an arm.

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>>53719785
If I had a ring like that, by all that is good and holy in the world I'd keep it tuned permanently to "stay the fuck away from me". I'd rather get shot than have to harvest from something like that, ring or not.

>>53719650
Don't forget falling from terminal velocity for a character who is already superhuman.

Most people are level 1, maybe level 2, and commoners at that. Beyond that, you start going into superhuman territories. A random pleb might die from a fall at terminal velocity, because it does 90 damage or whatever, but you're playing a superhuman monster of a person who can survive it with 10 hp left. The fall was hard, but you're harder.

Don't forget that the higher level you are, the tougher you get, and the more beyond human you are.

>>53700329
I don't know about realism, since that shit is bullshit, and I'm not SURE I am talking about grit.

But I do love it when there's some real fucking dire shit, that I can investigate and find out how dire exactly it is.

The example that comes off the top of my mind is hollow knight. It's not a super depressing game, some of the enemies you fight survive, and if you do it right your NPCs can retire to an enjoyable life of making warhammer models.

BUT
The moment you see that orange shit, you know it's some fucking dire stuff. And the rabbit hole goes down quite a fucking ways, in a literal sense.

It is a similar emotion I experience to when someone is about to get TOTALLY FUCKED in a horror movie. I'm sitting there like "AW SON, THIS SHIT IS BAD, LET'S SEE HOW BAD IT GETS"

>>53712348
Whom are you quoting?

I find myself playing joe bloggs thrust into extraordinary circumstances, would that be considered going realistic? For example:
Elderly professor amongst wizards, changelings, and the like in an nWoD fae "dangerous game" style arena.
Sentinel jedi hiding as a cor-sec beat cop amongst posessed sith (don't ask) and uber bounty hunters in a free form forum site before it died.
Stone-mason turned soldier in 3.5 (fought with his sledge) amongst homebrewed dragonkin, stone elementals and a minotaur.

>>53719650
>That shit applies to any system with healing and hitpoints.
In most systems with healing and hitpoints, HP is explicitly physical damage taken. Usually they model these wounds with penalties and the like. Most systems don't handle HP as garbage as DnD does.

>>53718784
Why?

>>53719059
>It doesn't matter who did it first
That is all that matters.
There is a reason why Mario and Link keep getting game but Samus, Fox and Donkey Kong Jr. are more valuable as IPs by not getting games.

>>53719650
>hey people enjoying your thing!
>stop enjoying your thing!
you sound like an autist trying to "prove" your opinion

>>53700462
Okay, now I want to play a man with strong morals trying to keep them in a world where they make no sense.
He's trying to draw a line somewhere, but the world keeps changing around him. Change just wasn't how he was raised.

Evil is relative, but Good is still Good, dammit, and that's the one thing he knows for sure.

>>53718816
LOTR is boring because they go on and on and on for ages about random shit just to make a point about how boring it is to wander through Mordor.
And they go frolicking naked through the woods for no good reason.
It's boring because Tolkien was a linguist not a writer, and it predates pacing.

>>53700329
>is the princess in the current game

Seriously, idk how it happened, but I'm basically the damsel in distress in my current game (my characters a guy though). First game, i got kidnapped and the group had to come rescue me. Then I got brainwashed by a guy looking for the rest of the group and the group had to come rescue me. One of these days I'll get to actually play the game rather than being left on the sidelines in a cell or closet.

>>53700329
It seems like you're mixing things up here. For example, Game of Thrones is popular, "gritty", and "realistic" but many of its villains aren't morally grey at all. They may have some human characteristics (Cersei cares about her family, etc.) but they're clearly evil.

Personally, I like stories such as Game of Thrones because most of the plot has had so much uncertainty. When main characters can die just because the world is cruel, it makes me feel like they're making real decisions with consequences. If they stand up for what's right, it's because they understand and accept the consequences. So in a way, it makes them more heroic than the typical hero who always gets his way.

Actually, what I can't stand is when things are "grey" in the sense that nobody is right or wrong. How am I supposed to immerse myself in a world where nobody is trying to do the right thing? Certainly characters who are just in it for themselves have a place in a realistic setting, but there's no reason to make them the key players in the story.

>>53722555
>Samus
Because the japs hate her for being so popular abroad?

Because people grow up and become adults.

They understand that good people can do great evil, and even an evil motherfucker can find redemption.

I remember asking that same question when I stopped reading YA shit and started reading actual literature.
>holy shit, everything is all complex shades of grey and there is no more clear cut black white

Of course, fantasy media might have taken over the complex grey morality of literature, but it's still written like retarded YA shit.

>>53706408
Yes, and story with such villains is a shitty, boring story.

>>53724878
I suppose, but it does seem like the "gritty realism" OP is talking about has much more interest in having good people turn evil than in having evil people turn good.

>>53700329
If GM have to twist your actions into furthering evil - he is doing shitty job at GMing morally grey story. In morally grey story, you can't tell if your actions aren't evil to begin with.

ITT people are too stupid to comprehend that evil vs good, grey vs grey and anything in between are all fine but with their own pitfalls and everyone will want to experience something else depending on what they think is overplayed at the moment.

>>53704605
Which is technically true, but our effect is way fucking overblown, and it comes from the attitude that if you have power you must use it.

>>53700329
>they don't seem to realize that you can have a fleshed out antagonist without a sympathetic reason for being evil.
For what it's worth, I usually try to come up with villains whose motives are at once believable, but still contemptible.

>>53725050
Do you have to know why every kobold, orc and evil mook decided to become evil?

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>>53719841
The fact that you call yourself an alchemist means you already have the protective clothing to protect yourself while doing your crafting and the magically tempered glass vials and flasks to contain your concoctions to deal with harvesting acid from the beetles.

What, next your going to tell me that you don't rent out a portion of your property to a local necromancer or vampire in exchange for bone meal or grave moss?

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My main villain is a dictator in a city-state that is being under constant alien siege. He uses war to justify the downright evil thing he does.

Tell me evil things I can do so my heroes can revolt.

One of the first things I thought about was kidnapping and then farming kids for biochemical research (he's turning kids into obedient but feral beasts, since adults just die after the chemical exposure). Kids are always part of the line no one should cross.

What other things are so evil that not even war can justify?

>>53728092
Gay marriage is banned.

>>53728137
No one gives a shit about gay marriage if there are interdimensional aliens at the door

I need more Staling tier evil shit

>>53728223
*Stalin

>>53728223
Well you could go full Stalin and have him be so paranoid he regularly purges his closest officers out of fear of betrayal and have him "Deal" with undesirables. Naturally you have to have the PCs find these facts and make them more or less obvious.

>>53711098
ISIS according to the precepts of their faith are heroic. You may consider their faith and culture to be the cultural equivalent of a garbage can on fire but that doesn't change the fact that they're willing to kill and be killed and endure extreme situations in the name of their beliefs.

I say this as someone who thinks we should just drop the bomb on the Middle East and start over.

Fighting is a gritty affair and most games are about fighting.

And dark doesn't come from lack of paragon heroes so much as it comes from lack of easy punching bags. If your villain is not completely shallow you gonna at least sometimes stop and wonder who's in the wrong here.

>>53718816
Lord of the Rings isn't even the typical good vs evil, none of Tolkien's work are. All of his books have other villains other than the "Dark Lord". Denathor is a more in-depth villain than anything Moorcock or Martin ever created. Tolkien's Legendarium only has one truly evil character that being Melkor and even then Melkor isn't evil, but evil is Melkor. Most fantasy readers usually go through 3 phases: First they like Tolkien because they were most likely introduced to the series because of him, then they discover grittier fantasies and start to resent Tolkien and then they "rediscover" Tolkien and notice how their past conceptions were in many ways flawed.

I mean literally. Every typical criticism you hear of Tolkien's world building is flat out false. This man knows actual valid criticism of Tolkien's work >>53723698 which can actually be taken seriously.

>>53700329
I want to run a game like this but all players care about these days is gold and XP because they're a bunch of fucking munchkins. Give a player the opportunity to do the right thing and I guarantee you they'll ignore it unless there's enemies to kill or money to be made.

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>>53700329

>>53719283
Tolkien's worldbuilding is far more in depth and has much more content than Warhammer's btw. Warhammer actually has one of the more shallow worlds since it's based on a tabletop wargame. Forgotten realms isn't as expansive as Tolkien but beats Warhammer any day.

>>53731709
Are you trollanoning?

>>53731992
More material =/= more depth, go back until you understand how to be an adult, child.

>>53700329

As a personal preference I find simple good vs evil stories kind of boring and limiting. If the villain is a baby kicking sadist who's a villain just because he's evil, it doesn't leave a lot of room for things like redeeming him, or exploring his motivations. If the good guys never even consider doing something a bit underhanded to win against a villain who has them outmatched it doesn't leave a lot of room to explore their personal philosophy, where they draw the lines in the fight against evil.

I don't claim that means the stories I enjoy are more mature or better. Its just my personal taste. Intellectually I can see the attraction of the opposite kind of story, where the moral compass is simple, it leaves more room for the action or other interactions to be explored.

I guess the main thing is to not go too over the top. The "morally grey" stories can easily fall into the grimdark or wangst traps. And the "black and white" guys can easily fall into saturday morning cartoon syndrome.

>>53731992
I do not see how I am trolling.

>>53731709
stop shitposting, this isn't even 4/10 tier.

>>53732368
see >>53732368

>>53732413
*see>>53732287

>>53732413
>proving him(me) right
Good job.

>>53732437
Could you please explain what your post meant? Or are you just >>53719283 continuing to shitpost?

>>53732467
Sorry, I don't feed trolls.

>>53700379
>Couple this with the culture of condescension towards "Sue" characters
Aww someone's still salty not everyone liked their disney fan faction movie as much as they did.

>>53700329
I mean I prefer realism and grittiness but I can understand the sentiment. My current game I'm running is based off of the Golden Age Arc of Berserk, the party are the leaders of a mercenary band fighting for glory and profit, there isn't really any magic and they fight lots of giant guys wearing giant armour carrying giant weapons generally with big scary names and titles.

>>53723758
Your gm hatet you

>>53732544
Great job proving his point. An anti-sue is much worse than a mary sue.
>My character is a failure at everything
>Everyone hates him
>He's ugly and stupid

>>53706454
But real life right now is pretty grim and oppressive, how fucking sheltered are you. Doesn't matter what your particular political orientation is unless you've one of the lucky people to have a bunch of politicians owing your favours shit is fucked up, maybe get your head out of the sand some time.

>>53719435
That must be one hell of a bush to enable you to survive a fall at terminal velocity

>>53722911
>it's not a bad thing
Yeah that's what they were saying you stupid brain dead D&D fanboy.

>>53732749
>But real life right now is pretty grim and oppressive, how fucking sheltered are you.
There is less war than in human history. There is less violent crime. Even the poorest citizens in developed countries have access to refrigeration, electric heating and cooling, computers, etc. More and more nations become modernized and developed constantly.

In what way is what you are saying possibly true? Oh I know because you watch or read way too much news like most people who parrot this nonsense that teh world has become a dark place.

>>53732966
>Oh I know because you watch or read way too much news
Yes, god forbid I be informed about the world around me rather then be an ignorant fuckwad like you.

>>53733047
There's nothing wrong with being informed. There is something wrong with falling for fear mongering which you clearly have. You didn't answer my question, in what way is the world possibly becoming a dark place? Because on a worldwide scale violence is at an all time low for humanity.

>>53733081
>You didn't answer my question, in what way is the world possibly becoming a dark place?
Well if you'd actually bothered to read my original post beyond the part you selectively quoted I made one particular example quite clear. Quote all the statistics you want that doesn't change the fact that not having any real democratic representation is by definition oppressive. Many of those third world countries that are modernizing aren't necessarily becoming democratic either, China keeps on getting richer and richer at the same time as the grip of CCP gets tighter and tighter complete with involuntary live organ removal. And that's a nation of over 1 billion people, hardly a small sampling.

>>53733303
*grip of the CCP

>>53733303
You're doing exactly what I said you were. You're ignoring broad trends and change and the general improvement of quality of life and citing specific examples that you were no doubt informed about in the news. Which is fine as I said. What's not fine is looking at the fact that bad things are happening and thinking it's something new or that it's getting worse. This is a rhetoric that almost all news stations push because it makes people feel like they need to be informed less they fall prey to all these horrible things (ya know, the kinda attitude you just exhibited) and you shouldn't let them fear monger you like that. It's fine to be informed but don't let the news make you feel like the world is ending. It's not, it's constantly getting better despite set backs of course do happen.

>>53733516
>You're ignoring broad trends and change and the general improvement of quality of life
No, I'm not, I'm just talking about things other then them. Not all of human existence is owning a refrigerator and taking comfort in the fact that your nation is not currently being invaded. You are the one who is fixating in on the idea that the concept of "quality of life" can refer only to how many material possessions you have and whether or not people are currently trying to kill you.

>citing specific examples
I pointed to it specifically to disprove your idiotic idea that nations just "modernize" in some non-specific way which means everything just gets better. Modernization has brought China so many horrors and done absolutely nothing to rid them of the dictatorship they've suffered under for over half a century. modernization is not a panacea for all the worlds ills. And China is not the only example of this, far from it, maybe if you were more informed about the world you'd know that.

>that you were no doubt informed about in the news
Where exactly was I supposed to get hop on a plane to the country itself and ask around? Also if you're referring to tv news specifically I haven't watched that in over 2 years, of course that's garbage.

>What's not fine is looking at the fact that bad things are happening and thinking it's something
new or that it's getting worse
Why? Because it's not your opinion? Sorry princess.

>This is a rhetoric that almost all news stations push because it makes people feel like they need to be informed less they fall prey to all these horrible things
Or maybe you're so desperate to avoid the fact that the world isn't all moonbeams and pixie dust that you have to repeat this catechism every time someone confronts you with unpleasant facts that don't fit your own narrative, ever think of that?

>>53706557
>thread

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>>53718857
>LotR
>Generic
NiGga U VvhuT
'?

>>53734818
He is right, you know. Not even Warcraft is as generic as Lotr, and warcraft isn't even unique in any way.

>>53732747
More like

>my character is capable in his field of expertise, he'd beat most people at it
>he could be replaced with another equally skilled person given some time
>still sometimes happens to be in the right place at the right time and be the only one who can solve a problem
>most of the world is indifferent to what he does and whether he lives or dies
>still has companions close to him that care about what happens and enemies who hate his guts

People just love to be so different from your usual race/occupation they just need to show how unique they are.

I rarely see this. Almost every RPG ran in person and online ends up with people trying to be LOLSORANDOM. This happens less online for obvious reasons, but it's rare to get a party where somebody isn't trying to be Star Lord or otherwise play something light-hearted and quipy, regardless of whether or not it's a gritty game or something more fantastical.

>>53728092
Child soldiers.
Incompetence IE using wave tactics when you don't HAVE the men to keep doing wave tactics.
Executing/vanishing dissenters
Sacrificial rituals meant to help ward off the enemy, using blood magic sacrifices to empower spellcasters, weapons, etc.
Necromancy to raise more soldiers to fight the aliens (and establish in-universe that necromancy fucks up the soul or some shit).

>>53700329
I don't even care about your thread, that pic makes me happy every time I see it.

I really prefer something in between, where people are flawed and damaged, and a lot of them are even fuckups, but even the most fucked up human beings can sometimes do beautiful, kind, good things.

The problem is, that kind of thing is really hard to get across in a tabletop RPG.

>>53733303
The fact that you think some countries not having democracy is "grim" means that our world is not very grim. Pyramid of needs my friendo. The fact that you think something that you see as ideologically wrong is making the world a "grim place" means you have way too much free time, luxury and wealth to be living in anything that can be considered grim.

>>53735446
I'd be delighted to hear what you think makes LoTR generic. Chances are you associate "Tolkien imitators" more with Tolkien actual works by Tolkien.

>>53700462

>>This poster wears a pink mohawk and punches children
>>Doesn't know he is already dead

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>>53700462
This just lists the reasons I love Fist of the North Star

>>53724878
>I am 12 and what is this

>>53728286
This.
It's less what you do and more how you look while you do it.
Nobody gives a shit that Roosevelt lit Tokyo on fire causing the largest civilian death toll of WWII, because he looked vulnerable and straight laced. But people still name Hitler as the ultimate evil ignoring Franco, Pol Pot, Stalin, Duvalier and Mao. Because his projected personality was larger and more violent than theirs.

>>53732199
>it doesn't leave a lot of room for things like redeeming him, or exploring his motivations
Are you a woman?
In my experience the only idiots who have this fetish for redeeming evil are women who feel guilty that bad guys turn them on, and assholes with an underdog complex.

The first is ok, it's a biological remnant from ancient times and can be excused. The later is cancer and doesn't belong at the table.

>>53739098
50+% of paladin players think that way.

>>53739041
It helps that he was the face of Nazi Germany and completely batshit insane. Virtually every nation in the world has taken part in atrocious acts advancing their own agenda, but the reality is that a lot of terrible things have a tendency to be swept under the rug because they either happened as a course of war (and thus are overshadowed by the other awful shit going on) or are justified as a necessary evil.
The reason why companies like Nestle haven't gotten completely dismantled despite their awful practices is totally simple: they are, or at least portray themselves as, too important to be torn down. Sure, they almost literally steal water, but they're also THE BIGGEST FOOD COMPANY IN THE WORLD and the repercussions for destroying them would be tremendous. So a lot of the time, we have to rely on people not abusing the economic power they have, rather than keeping them completely on leash.

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>>53733763
Nigger, you have the luxury of knowing the very basics of political mumbo jumbo.
That alone makes you several magnitudes more privileged and less "opressed" than every single human beign from the second we discovered fire till the begginings of the 18th century. And easy access to the internet makes you more privileged than any other 18th century-1992 civilian.

You're not as powerful as the kings and kingmakers, how fucking apocalyptic. You're a perfect example of what a cancer underdog complex is to society.

>>53737592
That's just the real world.
Just go outside.

>>53739148
Every paladin I've played with was "when in doubt smite and let god sort them out" with a side of "If I haven't fallen it's because I'm doing the right thing".
Sorta meta, but ironically more realistic.

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>>53704864
>>53705641
>much safer and easier to make guncotton
>gun cotton
>safer

Have a bit of cloth rub up? Oh about rubbing a rubbery object then touching your gun. How about a warehouse full of nitrocellulose? See that powder there? Gets one little touch of static, it ignites, go BOOM.

>>53719059
I'm really curious about who this poster thinks did platforming better than mario.

>>53737592
>make fantasy or science fiction game work exactly like the real world
what's the point

>>53736167
you know, in the real world, there is someone who is the best in his chosen field of expertise.
What is wrong with basing a story on that guy?

>>53732199

I can agree that last part. It's why I wished plantinum dunes didn't pussy out on the nightmare on elm street remake and actually had the kids lying about the abuse and Freddy got torched by angry parents anyway like was implied at first. Would have been an interesting take on the mythos.

>>53739490
Sonic, Megaman, Crash, Spiro, Jak, Donkey Kong Country.

Mario is fucking awful.

>>53706669
>Not trying to be big damn heroes in a cold, uncaring world.

>>53739359
Try purifying enough saltpeter at a reliable rate for the use of guns. It's just impossible for a single murderhobo without China's imperial alchemists budget and manpower behind him.
The evolution of propellants didn't take almost a whole millenium because it couldn't be done before, but because nobody cared enough. Meanwhile you can get guncotton from a guy experimenting with paint and photography or napalm from a guy making soap.

Ultimatedly, just make a fucking air gun. Pumps and rivets are toy stuff for a gnome tinkerer.

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>>53740710
One of my favorite things to do, no matter how stupid the other players think it is.

>>53700329
Supes is the fucking bomb. Holy shit.

>>53700379
Except most characters in dark stories are Sues to ridiculous extent. They have to be, because only a Sue can survive in a truly hostile universe long enough to get a story.

>>53700329
our generation has a great deal of disillusionment that leads them to prefer these kind of themes.

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>>53700462
>Simplistic good vs. evil is for tiny children.
Nihilism is for weaklings who gave up. A hero - or, for that matter, a villain, or any memorable character - is one who doesn't just go with the flow but swims in the direction they want to despite resistance.

>Grit, realism, and moral greyness are hallmarks of maturity.
"Moral greyness" is when you decide to ally with Stalin because Hitler happens to be a bigger immediate threat. If, on the other hand, you ally with Stalin for personal benefit, you're not "grey", you're a villain.

The true hallmark of maturity is realizing that even if the world sucks Satan's dick, you don't have to. There are consequences for refusing, and dealing with them instantly gives us a plot and character development. Or, if the character decides to go ahead and do it anyway, we get a truly memorable villain like the tyrants mentioned above. Either way, the audience can connect with the story, no matter how far out there it will otherwise be, because every single one of us have had the horned penis shoved in our face at some point of our lives.

>>53706510
>Dude, people right now think Trump is killing gays and women for fun.
Not for fun, to get those sweet likes from his audience, who happen to be a mixture of fundamentalists and edgelords.
Thankfully, Trump seems to be too dumb to actually get anything done, so the whole thing is turning into a farce.
Heck, I'm liberal for life and even I'm starting to feel sorry for the monster.

>>53741422
Because they're living the easiest, most privileged lives the general human population has ever lived and still are not satisfied.

>>53710755
>No one is going to spit on the duke if that gets them sentenced to be hung by the neck until dead.
Why not? They'll just roll another character and start treating those as disposable, giving them even less incentive to care. Death is cheap in a game.

Instead, why not have the duke confiscate their equipment as recompense and throw them into the streets naked, or maybe put them into stocks? That way they're actually forced to endure the consequences, and being an object of mockery and ridicule will likely hit That Guy where it hurts: their ego.

It also gives the rest of the players a chance to enjoy the griefer getting their comeuppance, maybe bond with the duke over it just to rub it in.

Or, if you want to go with grimdark, the duke has all kinds of magic at his disposal to make the character's life miserable: curses, geas, polymorph, enhanctment, rip the character's soul out and bind it into an artifact, etc. Congratulations Mr. Joker, you're now a pretty young concubine for that orc chieftain who demands tribute to go away. You better hope the rest of your party likes you well enough to rescue you, but even if they do, expect to be pregnant by then. Which, if the player rolls with it, could actually lead to pretty interesting roleplaying.

>>53740241
I'm so confused by this post.

Are you saying that the sum total of the franchises is better? Or are you comparing all of these games to the very first Mario game?

>>53718077
>Its about realism, like The Punisher.
Punisher is every bit the invincible demigod Superman is. Having the entire Mafia shoot at you with automatic weapons yet miss because you're a badass is less, not more, "realistic" than having bullets bounce off because you're bulletproof.

Punisher is NRA Sue.

>>53718077
This is such a dumb post. Marvel has characters that are just as godly as any of DC's, and mutants are actually unrealistic and clash with the universe. You know why mutants are hated? Because a sentient super disease manipulated the public to hate them, because mutants are immune to it and rapidly becoming more more and more common, meaning that sentient disease will eventually die out. That's why people hate the largely human looking X-Men yet have posters of the Thing hanging on their walls. Punisher is also very unrealistic, as are all plot armor characters.

>>53739576
Because that's one in a billion.
You aren't going to defy the odds and constantly make characters like that, nobody likes that or thinks they're interesting.

>>53700329
Don't mistake the whining on /tg/ for real life. It's stupid and misleading.

>>53739277
But there's no dragons or FTL outside.
>>53739497
>What's the point of fiction where people behave realistically?
You fucking with me right now?

>>53700329
Because larger than life fantasy stories for adults is routine and cliché since we've been doing those since our early teens.

>>53701141
That's about as wrong as someone can get.

Adults act mature not because they want to or can but because it's expected of them.

>>53741493
But how about allying Stalin to bring about the worldwide revolution and cast down capitalism on the planetary scale?
Surely tyrant will not last forever and true ideals of Marxism-Leninism will shine through, comrade!

Look around you. Chances are, you are living in a nuclear superpower or in a close ally of such superpower. Nobody will attack you. Even if they will, you will just anticlimactically die in nuclear fire. Either way, there's no evil horde coming to take away your freedom. The only ones who's going to take your freedom away are your own government and some insidious conspiratorial groups (Exactly which - depends on your political preferences).

Our fantasies reflect this. We do not want to be knights in shining armour fighting for the king, because the king is worthless at best and the enemy at worst. We want to be drunk, whoring, wise-cracking midgets who will persevere in the face of constant abuse and humiliate everyone who wronged us in the last book probably.

>>53733763
>Not all of human existence is owning a refrigerator and taking comfort in the fact that your nation is not currently being invaded. You are the one who is fixating in on the idea that the concept of "quality of life" can refer only to how many material possessions you have and whether or not people are currently trying to kill you.
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs: _first_ you escape from people trying to kill you, _second_ you get something to eat, _third_ you get some way to store your food for later, and _fourth_ you demand a voice in common decisions.

No, all of human existence is not about mere survival, but survival is the requisite for caring about other things, thus it takes priority until it's secured. And people's quality of life is in fact greatly improved by them having a refrigerator and something to keep in it. Material goods are necessary for material beings; that you eventually hit diminishing returns does not change that but is simply your cue to move to the next issue since this one's been addressed.

>Modernization has brought China so many horrors and done absolutely nothing to rid them of the dictatorship they've suffered under for over half a century.
China has political dissidents nowadays. They can exist because modernization has made some Chinese even outside the ruling elite well of enough that they can afford to worry about such things. At the same time the Chinese government itself has softened a lot from the days of Mao, at least in part because it's impossible to compete in the modern world as an authoritarian dictatorship because you need your population to be free to try and adopt new things to avoid being left behind.

>>53739576
Nothing, it's just that most of the time competent and best get the same result.

>>53742405
I don't read either comics, did someone think this was a good idea and actually made this a villain?
If so, that's one of the worst excuses for a plot I've ever seen

>>53743299
The ideals of Marxism-Leninism are a corruption of the true spirit of Communism, which is one of liberation from economic bondage and a classless society of equals. One who follows Marxism-Leninism has already given up and accepted the fallacy that Capitalism inherited from Feudalism: that some should be allowed to plant their boots on the faces of others and pretend to be giants. How could such a person ever hope to create anything but another system of exploitation and slavery, a parody of that which it was meant to replace?

The weak allied with Stalin and went down with his lies. The strong do not give in in the face of either violent opposition nor pleasant lies, but help and empower the poor, free them from the internalized lie that they deserve to be so, and wake them to demand their fair share of the world's bounty and the fruits of their labor. Perhaps Capitalism can be redeemed and mature into Communism, or perhaps it has to fall for a better world to arrive, but if it's the latter then it's the internal contradictions of Capitalism, not violence and tyranny, which will do the job.

Speaking of crises of Capitalism, there seems to be another one ongoing, this time caused by automation. Perhaps it's the final one, but if not, there will be another, and another, and another. It's just a matter of time.

>>53700329
>my DM wouldn't let me play a Chaotic Evil character: the post
Cool story, kid.

>>53719283
I think you put the Warhammer picture in the wrong square. It's clearly the bottom right now that it's cancelled.

File: 1480066010140.png (597KB, 945x891px) Image search: [Google]

597KB, 945x891px

>>53706557
My nigga. I'd play a game with you any time, because this shit is my bread and butter.

>>53719392
Hit points are meat points when convenient, and luck points when it's convenient for them to be otherwise.