Infinity General - Official alternate color scheme appreciation

soooooooooooooooo when are we getting a vanilla ariadna tactica?

also, how're you dudes enjoying the wotan missions?

There are primarily Combined and PanO players at my shop so we've been playing the sygtir missions a lot. I like comms center with artificial gravity failure a lot

>>53696749
>Step 1. Use Camo.
And ya done.

Also, got the Neon Lotus terrain and the mdf support pack to go with it. After shitting on one mini-block testing to see if it was better to cut off the tabs and simply glue it, or use the folding itself, I've come to determine both have their upsides and downsides. Especially since some of them don't seem to really want to fit on the box itself. And the big builders are just fuckers, and some of the folds just don't make sense and I'm left with random tabs unused. Bridges are nice, though? But it sucks that instead of mdf for the bottom and walls, you just get a piece of acrylic for the bottom and no support for the walls leaving them a little floppy.

One of my buddies just got a JSA force started for Wotan (they use to play Vanilla Yu Jing) and wants to do a knights vs samurai fight this weekend. I play Military Orders and chances are we're just gonna do firefight for it. I know for a fact that he will be taking 4 Domaru Butai with Neko and probably a few ninja's and oniwabans.

What are some good units I can take against the Samurai link? I wanted to take a full house knight link but e/m grenades/swords kinda scare me in that fact, but Domaru only have short ranged weaponry so I was thinking about taking De Fersen with hospitallers and trying to out range them with HMG's and spitfire, while bringing some black friars to watch out for ninja's n shit. Or would I be better off not taking the expensive knight link and focusing on more harassing units?

I honestly have no idea what to expect against a Samurai link or how to prepare.

Attempt to have another "fun" exercise for a new thread:

>Make a list you'd run without a single duplicate unit: not just profiles, you can only run 1 model of each available troop.

>>53696984
I'm also an MO player, I always advocate for going with the HI.


I'll say pick whatever style you prefer between a Santiago/magister link and defersen with some hospitallers.

the santiagos have e/m grenades which can truly wreck the domaru by immobilizing and isolating them in one go.

The hospitallers can afford more range but that may or may not help based on the board you paly. Deferson's assault hacking device can achieve the same effects as e/m grenades, though you cannot immobilze AND isolate the domaru in one go.
I usually run the Santiago link. It'll be cheaper than the hospitallers/deferson link so you can afford to take more and possible even better support units. I love running sierras and TO sergeants with my link. the TOFO or TOS can help you spec fire those grenades and catch your opponent off guard respectively.
You may want to consider the crusader bretheren too. If your opponent is gonna be running those domaru up to you then he may just leave his flank open..
the black friar is likely a wise choice. I always expect JSA to use ninjas

>>53696984
Well, you already seem to have a good idea of what to be wary of. Exploit the fact that the Domaru are trash outside of 12 inches and punish him hard for it. If you can bring E/M, do it. If you can bring a nice fiery blast, do it. I mean, shit, an Order Sergeant with a Heavy Rocket Launcher can very easily shit on him. And Missiles work well enough, too.

Also, expect him to bring something to offer up smoke to cover the Domaru advance, so make sure you have something with a Visor to shoot through that. Black Friars being a solid choice.

Sucks dick you don't have any Haris options, or else I might actually recommend just memeing and running a Core of Order Sergeants to exploit the HRL. But I am no MO player, so I'd defer to >>53697143

>>53696984
Don't forget that Domaru link can include Haramaki, which makes up the short range with Missile Launchers, contenders, and blitzens (also E/M) with BS 13 base to boot. Although unlikely from what you said, it's a possibility.

Bring the FO/Sensor remote to help counter Oniwabans and ninjas in HD through sensor.

Occasionally, with some discretion, call the raiden's bluff (one of those camo markers on a building is a mine you can likely walk unopposed to at long range).

Avoid close combat, it's order inefficient even if you're good at it, and JSA's better than you at it.

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>>53697015
Fuck me, this is shitty. The issue with Kazaks is three of the options are Irregular, two Extremely Impetuous and the other Frenzy. Otherwise, I took every unit we have, excepting the Traktor Mul. Even the Colonel. And yes, Irmandinhos and Isobel are both ours. We just share the Intel operative with the Shotlandski.

>>53697280
>>53696984

we don't have Haris but we have some duos.

You can take two santiagos, two father knigths (which I think is overdoing it) and two montesas.


Let's say you go with an order sergeant link of sorts,


the Santiago duo can do everything I mentioned in my previous post >>53697143


Two fatherknights can be good. Assault means they can potentially get into combat before the domaru do but they lack martial arts. I'd be very careful with that. The assault hacker is great though.


I fucking love the montesa duo so much. I highly recommend a spitfire and a LGL (the LGL isn't as effective against HI but it gives you some good options with spec fire)
The montesas also come with chain-colts and breaker pistols stock WITH mechanized deployment. They can deploy closer and put their direct template and pistols to good use.

>>53697442
I do love your dedication to the Kazak cause.

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>>53697015
I feel like this is significantly easier in Generic armies compared to sectorials.

Anyways, if I were to rewrite the list I was thinking of fielding next game with this in mind I'd do this.

Let me see if I report back with a sectorial list.

>>53697834
You're right, some sectorials are really fucked if they try it.

>>53696911
>Regarding Neon Lotus
Toying around some more, and I found stapling works decent as far as removing some of the gappiness and staples also sink right into the MDF for a good lock. However, I'm slightly drunk so getting an even seal on the bottom without some clamps proved too much for my vodka-marinated brain. Properly done, though, it should be pretty decent. The bridges also are pretty neat -- I bitched about there not being any support for the sides, but the way they slot into the buildings, the railings of the buildings end up giving strength to them.

>>53697143
Thank you all for the help,, I'll keep those points in mind.
Based on the suggestions for the main link, what would you think of 2 santiagos and 3 magisters one with a missile launcher? It's cheaper and provides a nice long range piece as well as the e/m from the santiagos for when they close in. Leaving me with more space to put in specialists and some TO sergeants.

>>53698995
As I mentioned earlier, the santiago/magister link is my usual go to. A spitfire Santiago, Paramedic Santiago, Missile Magister, and two other magisters will have all of your bases covered.


it should clock in at 161 points and 3 or 3.5 SWC depending on whether or not you take the santiago Lt. that's up to you.

I'm getting the Ariadna Wotan bundle to start building towards Kazaks, but I've already got a limited edition Unknown Ranger and I kinda want to experience Van Zant shenanigans, so I'm thinking of splashing out into a limited vanilla force too.

What non-russian units do you think really excel in vanilla, enough so to justify it?

I'd probably get a second chasseur, and 2 hardcases to enhance my shell game, in fact all the infiltrating camo is seriously tempting for a super camo heavy list, so I guess, maybe just focus on non-camo units you think are special.

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>>53697834
>I feel like this is significantly easier in Generic armies compared to sectorials.
Yep, definitely. ALEPH and CA are probably still fine with it.

>>53690598
>If you're playing Recon+ by http://rocketshipgames.com/infinity/recon+/ (which is much better IMO)

Definitely looks better but I think it's still flawed.

I recently took a Recon list which consisted of a Marut, 3 Netrods, and 2 8 point bots. It's not unbeatable by any stretch but it's clearly not what the format wants, and if you're going to restrict it as much as they have, may as well iron out these sorts of things.

I also continue to think restricting units based on whether they are a character or not is silly.

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>>53698582
CHA can still pull together a 4 man link

>>53697280
Order Sergeants aren't meming. They're like an anti-meme, a decent but not fantastic option that nobody remembers exists.

>>53701031
A real pity, too. I always loved Order Sergeants and Magister Knights. If they'd give access to just a single Haris, I'd jump into MO with an Order Sergeant core in a heartbeat. Maybe just a Haris along the same line as the Magister special, pick one knight from an Order and slap on two Magisters.

I still think it's absolute bullshit that Teutons can't link. Even without a change to their profile, that alone would be a nice boon.

>>53700850
>Traktor Mul
At least the Amerikanski backwards-engineer theirs. Give us back our shit, ginger. And while you're at it, give all of Ariadna back the original Katyusha. Y'know, that was actually a katyusha.

>>53700015
I honestly can't give you much advice for playing Vanilla. I only ran it for a couple of games back in... 2012 or so. I'd assume spam your chasseur as usual. And speaking as a Kazak player, fuck Hardcases. The ambush camo is nice, and they're stupidly cheap, but they're also Irregular and basically just memes. We've got two Amerikanski at my FLGS, and neither one ever brings more than one.

Especially if you are going to become glorious Kazak player for pride of Rodina Mat, pick up some Scouts. Points-wise, they may be twice the price, but they are also absolutely fantastic. I never leave home without one or two. Infil, Camo, Marksmanship, 12 BS, 13 WIP and PH, with two profiles I mainly use. The BSG is probably one of the best assassins that Kazaks get, and I would argue better than the Parachutist Spetsnaz. The FO is fantastic for objectives, and the Ojotnik is basically a sniper rifle that wants to be from 8-40'' which is right where a specialist should be. Toss on the fact he's got D-Charges and Mines, and you've got a fantastic unit. If you're dealing with a lot of HI or remotes, you can bring along the E/Mauler, but its up to you.

>>53701257
Teutons should really be along the lines of Santiagos and Hospitallers. I feel like MO would seem a lot less jank if more than half of the knightly orders were good main options.

I'd like an Order Sergeant haris personally, maybe with optional Father Knight. That would let them support the knights at the front better, and stuff like the FK ML and spitfire could really get some time in the limelight.

>>53701412
Whatever happened to the way things happened back in Second Ed, where you picked a Primary Order which formed the backbone of your army and was your primary Link and then you were allowed to have limited selection of Brother-Knights from the other Orders? I can definitely understand them trashing it because of being slight complicated, but I always thought it was fantastic as it gave you that feel of a band of crusaders dedicated to a singular cause though with the assistance of their other righteous brethren. And the fact it got dropped and then they made the Knightly Orders themselves so fucking janky just seemed weird.

You've got Sepulchre which are stuck solo -- though it kinda make sense, what with the Holoechoes. Hospitalers and Santiagos who have their options. Montessa, Santiago, and the Father-Knights -- who always felt completely unnecessary to me -- also get Duo. And Teutons just get trashed. Just what the fuck. It especially stings a friend of mine who was primarily interested in getting into the game as an MO player and to rock Teutons in particular. Sorry, bub.

>>53701577
Seps won't be able to link ever, and honestly that's probably for the best. The rules clusterfuck that is the Patroclus/Achilles duo shone some light on what linked holo2 would be like.

Montesas are pretty much stuck with duo. They're premium HI so full links are off the menu, and Magisters don't work either because half the point of Monties is their mech deployment.

Santiagos having duo is a nice touch, a spitfire+paramedic team is solid and a core can stick together even if their Magisters are let off the leash. It goes well with their more short range nature compared to Hospitallers, who are a lot less inclined to let their Magisters loose.

FKs having duo would be a nice touch if their duo was good and didn't rely on a 44 point shotgun with nothing else going on. They're the same thing they always have been: Disciplined tough HI specialist. Being part of a haris could really open things up for the combat profiles imo.

The best Teutons have is to hope for an overhaul when Varuna drops with the next book. They'll have a perfect fluff reason to shake things up since the original Paradiso Teutons will almost certainly all die when CA takes the planet. The new Varuna Teutons could be better.

Is there any reason to run a Father Knight?

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I just bought a lot of Nomads, including among other things, the old ADHL+Combi Hellcat. It's NIB, and I already have the Hacker/HMB/BSG sculpts, so I'm thinking about converting them.

The combi profile I'll likely just clip off the back wings and run him as a Tomcat, but the ADHL is is atrocious looking. My plan is to clip the wings, round out the back of his head, and then clip and file off the gun from his hands an give him two swords ala Senor Massacre.

My question, where can I get tiny swords of the right size? I was thinking of sculpting it with greenstuf, but I've never used it before. Thoughts?

>>53702320
2 wound BTS9 assault hacker. FO is pretty solid too, not being a frenzied retard helps with specialist work.

Random speculation, time!
>What will the Kazak characters be?
In addition to the Colonel and Isobel, the RPG Character list that we've gotten has two pretty clear Kazaks. Vassily Plushenko and Pavel McMannus. What do you expect to see from these bastards on the table?

>Vassily
He's from Tartary and was a Line Kazak for a short time before becoming a Tankhunter, finally ending up as as a bodyguard. He's an excellent marksman -- Marksmanship L1, perhaps -- and noted as being more at home out in the forests and tundra than in a briefing room. Also mentioned as being excellent at disappearing into the wilderness, probably Camouflage like the standard TH. It's also important to note that he's supposed got really shitty leadership skills and is terrible with technology, so probably no bump to WIP. They really hammer home the fact that he has no interest in leadership, so definitely not an Lt profile. Served as a dedicated TAG hunter. Armed with an... AP Rifle? AP HMG? I doubt CB will give us an extra Autocannon, and the Missile Launcher seems like a waste. Though I think I remember art from ages ago showing him with one. The AP HMG would put him in direct competition with the Spetsnaz, too. So probably a Missile Launcher, though I'd probably prefer an AP Rifle of all things. So final thoughts...
>Basically just a Tankhunter with Marksmanship L1, maybe a slight bump to his BS.

How can I get over shit dice? I lost 2 ganes recently because my heavy hitters got double crit on crucial rolls. I love this game when the rolls are pretty even, but every time I remember this is a dice game it just kills the fun for me.

>>53702574
>Pavel
Half-Scot, Half-Kazak. Mother was a Scout, and he managed to pass the grueling tests to become one and was almost instantly raised up to enrollment in the Spetsnaz Shkola. He's military intelligence, with the training of Spetsnaz. So Camouflage and Martial Arts, maybe an extra rank over the Spetsnaz base of 2? Also hammers home his whole Caledonian heritage and endurance and the fact that he was raised as a hard-drinking and courageous Scot even though he matured into a proper Kazak, so maybe Dogged? Makes a big fuss on the fact that he uses his Ojotnik, so we at least know the weapon. Toss on... I guess just leave him with the Spetsnaz standard of a Pistol, bump him to the AP CCW that the Parachutist have, the Knife, and either Grenades or Mines. The biggest hang-up with Pavel for me is what sort of Camo and Infil or not. Since he's got the Ojotnik, I want him mid-field fast, so I'll say give him Infil but drop the Ambush Camo down to regular Camo. Giving us...
>Basically just a Sniper Spetsnaz with the gun swapped to an Ojotnik, Ambush Camo dropped to Camo, toss on Infil, and Dogged if I'm lucky.

>>53702618
Keep playing, same as with any other game. Shit rolls don't last forever unless you're stuck here with me for all eternity in shit roll purgatory

>>53702756 It's just shitty because I can only play once a week and we are doing a league, so if I get diced or fuck up I basically get to think about it for a week and hate myself.

>>53702320

5 armor specialist that costs 20-24pts less than the Swiss. Also, religious makes him a reliable ML ARO platform or suppressive fire piece. Spitfire profile is pretty good with BS14+3. He's the only duo available in vanilla (montesa is AVA1), I guess you could run him duo in MO with an Order Sergeant link.

He's also the only 'good' melee knight outside of the explosive CCW Teuton. MAl2 is nice and all for DAM17, but a lot of knights are packing AP or Shock CCW. DACCW+Assault on top of a higher CC skill than average means that when you actually want to CC, it's much more likely to happen.

Really though, ARM8 with cover makes him practically a TAG. And he's BTS12, so practically immune to viral. He's just a big, lean model with no frills. That ML is pretty sexy, though I wish it came with a light shotgun.

>>53702808
>>53702618
Don't feel bad. We've got two guys at our FLGS that are basically cursed with absolutely garbage luck. One dude's dice are so awful that he legitimately switched from JSA to Tohaa just so that he could rely almost purely on template weapons. Now does pretty okay. The other's our Corregidor player (who doubles as one of the many USARF players) and just pushes on, nobly. He's probably one of the best players in our store as far as tactics and the like go, but his damn near curse-like unluckiness with dice put him in a middling position. Fucking terrifying rolls when he DMs Shadowrun, though.

>>53702618

That feel when you shoot a ML father knight (no cover) with your HMG Intruder (cover) and he crits you, then you medikit the Intruder who gets crit again.

That said, try the dice calculator ( http://inf-dice.ghostlords.com/n3/ ). Make sure you're not making math mistakes.

>>53703158
I use it, but it just makes it worse seeing that you lost to a 1%...

>>53702869
>He's the only duo available in vanilla
Orc. Honestly the Orc duo ain't half bad, wish it had a tinbot but it's sure as hell better than the mandatory boarding shotgun of FKs.

The only thing MA2 is good for is hitting people who literally cannot fight back, like immobilised TAGs. Otherwise you're better off with MA1.
Assault is pretty great though, it's highly useful for closing the distance and bullying units who can't CC for shit (which is what you're doing most of the time with CC anyway). And CC20 with the assault mod means the FK is basically built for it.

So what are the odds of actual plot advancement after Wotan? Maybe the humans should just let the CA win so we can get to the next book already.

>>53703514
I don't think we'll see plot advancement until Acheron Falls/Cascade. Not significant plot advancement, anyway. Otherwise Modiphius will have to rewrite part of the rulebook again, and I don't want to entertain that thought.

>>53703596

That plot advancement can always wait for a splatbook, the delays have gone on long enough.

>>53702405
>My question, where can I get tiny swords of the right size?
Any resin bits for 40k store? I know puppetswar has some katanas, you would need to shop around if you want different ones.

>>53702299
The boarding shotgun for the father knight duo kills me. If I could take a duo with a spitfire and an assault hacker I would be so happy...

I also wish father-knights could link with hospitallers and santiagos.It could provide a cheaper way of completing a five man super-link without having to pay the super premium price that Joan or Defersen costs...

>>53701577
that rule you're talking is still in the army builder.You have up to AVA 4 of the knights from your chosen order and up to two knights from the other orders


I think Tuetons could be greatly enhanced with hyper-dynamics and extreme impetuousness. They're already glorified magisters as it is, just make them so.

As I see it, the only reason you want to take a tueton is if you're playing against the Combined Army. Your tuetons can't be sepsitorized.

>>53702416
fairy dust that mofo and watch the nomads cry because they can't hack him lol

>>53704430
To me, you just need to push the Teuton in either one or two ways. Basically, either go big or go fast.

>Giga Knigga
Bump him up to a S5 brute in the same vein of the Azra'il. Basically a baby TAG, still unlinkable but with 5 ARM and able to really maximize his value from something like Berserk as he'd be able to Assault over smaller terrain to just get in there and tear into his targets. Toss on Hyper-Dynamics, perhaps, as a representation of the wired reflexes of the suit, but basically make them Mecha-Knights.

>Gotta Go Fast
Toss on Extremely Impetuous, make him 6-4, and at least let him Duo if not Haris to become a CC monster truly worthy of fighting against the Domaru. Hyper-Dynamics maybe, but at least Kinematica. Turn them into something that can bolt down the board, move into combat swiftly, and wreck face in it. The Montessa might be able to deploy into good positions, but the Teuton simply brute forces where they want to go in a proper door-kicking fashion.

>>53704430
Dogged is such an obvious fit for Teutons that I don't know why they don't already have it. They're disposable crazy dudes who you aren't going to doctor anyway because no cube means no rerolls, and dogged goes well with the wound-trading nature of berserk.

I'd want them to be even more distinct from Magisters desu, you aren't going to out-Magister those guys. Get some twin shotguns or something in there for a more direct approach to doorkicking. None of that pussy Santiago shit like grenades, Teutons have to look into the eyes of their victims to really get off.

>>53704928
...Weird. Part of the core idea I was thinking for the Gotta Go Fast idea was to toss Dogged onto them. Dunno why I didn't toss it up there. Thanks for completing my thoughts, anon.

>>53704997
It's an obvious choice and very popular for people's Tooton fixes.

I wouldn't give any order knight haris though. If they're your main order they're better off as your core, either alone or with Magisters. If they're your buddy knights then they're AVA2. I'd just give Teutons the same treatment as Hospitallers/Santiagos, maybe with duo.

>>53706210
Fair enough about the Haris. Honestly, I think they ought to just give all of the Knightly Orders -- excluding Sepulchre -- the Hospitaller/Santiago treatment, as well as a Duo option.

>>53706240
Well aside from Teutons that just leaves Montesas, and they're in their own little category. They're premium 50 point dudes so a full core link would be prohibitively expensive and Magisters can't share their deployment shenanigans, so really their duo is all they're likely to get. They're actually the one knight order where haris could work well, though I doubt they'll get it since a haris of HI starting halfway up the board would be pretty insane.

Just played the 'Hunt Down' scenario for Wotan and realized--- Bagh Mari are 'Veteran Troops' and thus get the ADHLs.

AROs neutralized half of the targets so I didn't have to chase them down for the capture objectives.

>>53706573
>Veteran Kazaks aren't Veterans
ok

So i'm going to get me some Haqqislam Kum bikers soon. Any tips? I'm imagining I'm going to want to use their Smoke Grenades like crazy but I'm not too sure what loadout I should use for them

Question about suppressive fire. Is this a weak point?

When you sf on a corner. An enemy model approaches around the corner, out of Los, and with his first move gives you the opportunity to announce ARO change facing. You don't take the ARO. With his second skill he comes now rounding the corner, right into btb with your sf guy. Your sf guy cannot shoot him now, because he let his first opportunity to announce ARO pass, is this correct?

>>53706352
Montesa Duo is just as good in MO as it is in ASA. It's just that Magister core is more popular.

>>53706675

Well, they are Elite Troops though, so they get free ADHLs anyway.

>>53706715
Yes, that a perfectly legit tactic.

That's also a good incentive not to place your suppression fire troops in spots where your opponent can get to you in a single move value and to put up overlapping fire.

It is still another order where your opponent is not removing your model. Suppression is not necessarily to kill guys, but force your opponent to burn orders.

>>53706715

When the guy was first creeping up on your SF dude, I assume he was inside of SF dude's 8" Zone of Control?

>>53704598
>Giga Knigga

Okay that is legit a really cool idea. Dunno if that fits in with PanO design aesthetics as S5 HI are older gen armor.

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Has Father Lucien Sforzas' sidearm been upgraded to a heavy pistol?

Currently Infinity homepage is showing pic related, so I wondered if Sforza got changed. The link leads to the download section. So I downloaded the unit profiles again (V.3.7), and Sforza is listed with a heavy pistol, whereas Army builder still features him with only a normal pistol.

I want to field him at a game tomorrow, what profile do I follow, what takes priority usually?

>>53707854
No changes visible for Ashcroft though. I wonder if they've actually still to be updated.

>>53707854
>>53707929
They are regular now for Imperial service

>>53707854

Huh, looks like the pistol has been changed indeed.

Other then that, the Regular/Registered version of him is +5pts and is now Dogged. Looks pretty good if you can spare

>>53707929

Regular version +5pts, with specialist and fire team duo with other bounty hunters presumably.

>>53708140

Both irregular and regular versions are available for all bounty hunters (named or generic) in the IS. Regular generic 'hunters cost just 2pts more.

>>53708140
>>53708277
>Regular version +5pts, with specialist and fire team duo with other bounty hunters presumably.
Uh... do I still get to take them as Irregular.

I mean, Specialist is good but I don't need Sforza to be Regular.

>>53708277
Wait, where are you seeing this?

>>53708302

I believe so yes, only IS has both versions from the looks of it.

Regular Sforza gets heavy pistol and dogged, no specialist though.

>>53708498

Saw it on the wotan login, apparently the pdfs/builders are still updating.

>>53708498
https://wotan.warconsole.com/119288

>>53708617
Oh right, so Ashcroft is the one who gets specialist? That actually does sound pretty good Sforza, V:Dogged is a nice ability for him to have. He is legitimately a unit you don't care if he's Irregular or not though. And 5 points is a whole other order in ISS.

Not sure about Ashcroft. So 24/23 points for Regular Combi Rifle/Boarding Shotgun + Nanopulser Specialist Troop with ODD? You might run that if that was like a regular LI for your faction, probably, and had different weapon options.

If it's Duo only with the other Authorized Bounty Hunters I'm not wild about it.

>>53708706
Dandy, cheers!

Guys. How do I get gud at Morats.

I've been trying to roll Morat Vanguards (tl;dr, I got a shit ton of Morat stuff in a Combined Army lot). How the fuck do they work. I'm used to Fusilier links where I can leave em up as ARO threats, and they'll do the job. But these boys feel like jobbers.

How do I get gud. Chinese are wrecking my ass.

>>53709431
People including Morat players will talk up Vanguard infantry but IMO they're pretty fucking shit. They shouldn't perform significantly worse than Fusiliers save for -BS, same as any other line infantry link like Ghulams, Khazaks, etc. so I feel you're exaggerating there but you pay extra points for basically nothing important to the unit all the same.

Honestly MAF profoundly irritates me as a sectorial and I really like Morat models so I'm prolly not who you want to ask for advice.

You could try a smaller Morat Vanguard linkteam (maybe just Anyat + Hacker + a special weapon) or try using Rodoks for a full-size linkteam instead. Rodoks are quite good although their MOV stat hurts as does the lack of an FO profile and special weapon variety.

Yoagats are another choice but at that point you're paying pain train points for a linkteam which is not a pain train.

>>53709431
Rodoks are the link to go for Morats. That mimetism and superjump hit like a freight train. Oh, you think you're safe prone on top of this building? Monkey farting guy goes up in the air and say surprise motherfucker and shoots you to oblivion. Guaranteed surprise to a lot of newbs/reasonable players every time.

Plus that armor 2 and mimetism gets a lot of mileage. They're an active turn link that really can do board control well with the AHD, ML, and shotguns.

Be more active with your links in general. You want to get uncomfortably close.

>>53706740
Montesa duo + Knight core is good for limited insertion.

The montesa duo is also pretty good with a Order Sergeant core, just be sure to take some infiltrating TO order sergeants and even a peacemaker to support the montesas.

What gets me about Morats (and it shouldn't because we should all be used to this) is the fluff vs. gameplay gap.

Morats in the fluff are a badass warrior race only matched in aggression by the worst and most warlike in humanity. They have a wholly military society and complete dedication to war and violence. On the tabletop they are: generic and average in basically every respect, with almost no standout profile or unit.

I'd like to see massive fireteam flexibility in the MAF akin to QK and a revision of most of their units to be competitively costed rather than generic options which cost more due to the Morat rule.

>>53709431
piggybacking off of >>53709622
All of your Morats ignore Los of Lieutenant. You really do want to get close and aggressive and put that lt order to use.

Lt dies? no problem...

>>53709431
Get the fuck out of here ErryIn

Got half of operation ice storm and two panoceanian starter sets. How do I build an army out of those. I know that the army wouldn't be optimal, without blisters and big unit boxs. But I would like to have something playable, not trying to win worlds just to have some fun localy. Asked around localy, but no one here plays panocenia and the only advice other then not to play military orders, was to buy a ton of robot boxs . In the near future am not going to have money to buy any, so the two starters and the icestorm are the thing I have to build my list on.

>>53709902
So you have 3 PanO starter sets + the Father-Knight? Are all the starter sets the same?

>>53709902
Which two other PanO sets?

Otherwise, I'd tell you to figure it out on your own by messing around with the army builder (army.infinitythegame.com). You likely have something playable for your purposes already.

I do not have the knight the guy I was spliting the box, took him as payment for us using his credit card.
>>53709933
the two starter sets are different. One is called Neuterran Kapitol Armee and the other one is called Panocenian starer pack.

So the models I have right now are:
3 fusiliers
1 orc troop
1 croc man
1 Aquila guard with Rocket Launcher
1 swiss guard
3 Neuterran Boltz
1 Spitfire Hexxas
1 orc trooper with a multi rifle
1 Neusse from Svalerheim
1 Akhali commando
3 fusiliers that look different from the ones in the starter set. not sure if same unit

>>53710006
>Aquila guard with Rocket launcher

Wat

What do people use to proxy Spitfire Bounty Hunters? Just the normal Combi ABH? Druze Spitfire? Conversion with the ABH and a Spec Ops Spitfire?

What's everyone's opinion on the Joan + 4 Santiago core in MO? Seems like it would a make a good scary link that would have a negative psychological effect on an opponent but otherwise super expensive and hard to justify outside of annihilation.

If you were going to run this core, what would you bring? I was thinking 2 spitfire and a paramedic, not sure what the 4th knight should be.

>>53710026
>>53710006
Most likely the Swiss Guard with Rocket Launcher. That's actually fine, I thought you were gonna have triplicates of everything.

I would suggest not worrying about loadouts and feeling free to e.g. run your generic Nisse or Aquila Guard with an HMG. Will your community be fine with that?

You could also paint up the older Fusiliers (different looking models) and see if you can use them as proxies for a different unit, maybe one of the other LI options like Aconticimento guys or maybe Bipandra and a Machinist engineer.

>>53710092
>Will your community be fine with that?
I can ask them, and about using the different looking fusiliers as other units.
Thanks. Good to hear I didn't butt fuck myself buying the stuff. There is 0 people here playing panocenia, so no one to ask about tactics or what units to buy first. Aside for the advice to ignore knight stuff, because it is shit. that is why I didn't argue with the guy who I split the box with. Don't care about models I wouldn't be using anyway, and without his credit card I wouldn't have had anything to play with.

Only thing that bothers me right now, is that without infinity being sold at stores, the cost to get them is huge 80 euros for postal, just because the models are heavy and then a 27% import tax makes the models cost twice as much as they do in the web store.

>>53710050
I don't run it because I'm not down for special character/obvious lts but if I did...

take mobility joan if you're playing a scenario where zero-g/multiterrain is to your benefit(Case in point, Comms Center in Wotan).

Her skills and loadouts are also closer to what the santiagos come with but I don't think she needs kinematika and she shoots too well to need the nanopulser in my opinion. Otherwise you're fine to just take standard joan nad get the +1 SWC.

Don't forget that you get cheapo orders w/a tech-bee and a warcor under joan


I would take one of each of the Santiago loadouts. A spitfire for heavy lifting, a combi rifle as backup to the spitfire (or as an ARO piece if your opponents turns) the paramedic for objectives, and the boarding shotgun for when it gets uncomfortably close.

>>53710092
Asked the league orgeniser, and he said I can't use models as other models, he mentioned some specific other model that can be used as other models, but I do not have it.
So how should the army look like , I need 300pts to test for next week games.

>>53706684
The Kums come with a rifle/LS and a chain rifle.

I only use the chain rifle as a dogged fuck you missile

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>>53710436
You could do something like this in Vanilla. It's not great - you might benefit by subbing out one of the more expensive units with more generic fusiliers (for orders), and you're gonna hurt for special weapons if you've got to be unit-accurate.

DESU m8 I don't think it was a good idea to go all in on a purchase and be playing in a tournament without understanding enough of the rules to be able to put a list together, and between that and the credit card thing you're coming across as underage b&.

You could also consider running Neoterra sectorial which means you can't use a number of units but can link your Fusiliers - except you have no Fusilier with a heavy weapon, so it's still not great.

>>53710642
ok thanks man. I only got the starters, because the guy I was sharing the icestorm with told me you can't order it without buying two starter sets for each faction. I do understand that a starter plus 3-4 blisters and a big box of one unit would probably be better.

>>53710436
I cant tell if all the 3rd world country local shops are just super anal about model accuracy (you would think the opposite because they are poor and cant order models other than what the shop carries) or there are just very similar people meming constantly.

>>53710937
Our shop doesn't sell Infinity, sadly. I wish it did, it is more or less the orgeniser and his m8s that have full blown armies. the tournament has a cash prize and they split it after winning. Or at least I assume they do it, because they did the same with warmachine. I don't think the shop owner cares, as long as we pay for the food+drink+entry fee, we could have anything barring an orgy and he wouldn't bat an eye.

>>53710903
If you can change up loadouts you can do a lot better with the options you have (even just running Orc guy as HMG) but if you've gotta be model accurate it's a bummer.

>>53711031
That sounds shady as fuck my man.

>>53710165
The only bad knights are teutons. Hospitaller is your best doctor in vanilla. Fatherknight is a beefy son of a bitch and great assault hacker. Santiagos have a weapon for every occasion. Id avoid magisters outside of MO sectorial but they are still mean bastards once you know how to use them. Joan is almost borderline OP and defereson is solid too. Sepulchres are better in vanilla and just a tad boring in profile selection. Montesas can establish foward board control, especially with buddy peacemaker rem.

You got memed on dude. Also fuck that shipping cost is some bullshit. You should check online to see if there are sellers that wont fuck your 3rd world ass over.

Hello.

>>53709733
Morats truly are Space Marines of Infinity.

>>53711766
There are no Space Marines in infinity because it isn't autistic.

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>>53710006
That looks like PanO starter + NCA starter + I think Fusiliers from old PanO starter and Croc Man. Do they look like this?

And all that is totally good enough to build an army. Bolts are shit outside NCA, but everything else from that box is golden. Fusiliers, Nisse and Croc Man are all PanO staples.
My advice would be to run Aquilla as HMG with a Nisse, Croc Man, Akali and some Fusilis at first, maybe an ORC if you can fit one. Open the Army Builder app and try making a 200pts and a 300pts army, bearing in mind that you should always have at least 10 Orders.

>>53710047
>What do people use to proxy Spitfire Bounty Hunters?
The answer is: no one runs Spitfire Bounty Hunters. Sniper or bust.

>>53711898
Miranda Ashcroft duo with Spitfire ABH seems pretty decent to me. I like Druze hacker with Spitfire duo in QK, it's worked well for me, and Miranda Ashcroft with Spitfire ABH in ISS seems similar.

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So it look like they're at least tossing some concepts around for the blackjack.

>>53709733
I think your run of the mill civilian has base stats of 8. So even shit tier pano docs are actually pretty decent with that wip 12. So looking at morats who probably arent genetically engineered and cybernetically enhanced, they are pretty big and scary. Humanity has gotten to the point where medical science has hit plug and play for upgrading the human body on top of training and smart technologies.

That, or i am just spouting nonsense.

>>53711766
That'd explain the lack of girls in their line up outside a couple of units.

Actually, come to think of it, which unit do y'all think best lines up with the stats of a boltgun tactical marine?

>>53712121
IIRC they literally said that a Raktorak or something similar is basically a Sternguard Marine statwise.

>>53712150
>arm2
sogarats seem closer in feel, to be frank

>>53711957
I don't feel like that I want to buy a Spitfire on a unit which is moving Miranda and has Booty L2. I think I'll run the regular one, maybe the Sniper.

>>53712040
Blackjack Girl When.

>>53712049
It makes some level of sense but doesn't work with Morat costing 14 to the Fusilier's 10, and Vanguard generally being much worse than their Fusilier equivalent in most in-game situations.

I just want Morats (even just a few units) to have something that screams 'not to be fucked with' and they don't. They're the depressingly average benchmark for a lot of troop types in Infinity: only the Rodoks and Daturazi have some flair to them.

>>53712415
>only the Rodoks and Daturazi have some flair
>not the Sogarat
>a fuckheug 2 Wound, ARM 6, PH 15 w/ AutoMediKit, armed with an AP HMG
>that can Haris

"28mm""

>>53712589
""Heroic scale""

>>53712450
The Sogarat is the answer to the top HI of the human sphere: Aquila, Swiss, etc. I wouldn't rate it highly compared to them.

It's a great obstacle in cover and a tough offensive piece. Sure, you're right, it's one Morat unit you don't look at and think "this isn't that good"

>>53712589
The scale creep is real, but I personally don't mind it all that much beyond really wanting new sculpts for my Keisotsu (and some other baseline infantry).

>>53712664
I'm dreading to see the new CHA volunteers next to the old ones...
I fear its going to look like bring you children to war day.

>>53712704
You vs the guy she tells you not to worry about

The one thing that sometimes bother me about the new standard is the apparent size difference between male and female sculpts (especially HI). Domaru and Mobile Brigada being examples.

Like, yeah, sure there's room and space for sexual dimorphism but damn...

>>53712636
maybe its cause I play PanO but that BS13 kills me...

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>>53712753
Warcraft dimorphism is fine for minis I think

>how to model different scale minis

>>53712754
Yes, Morats have pretty restrictive BS variation.

>>53711876
they seem to look like this. my aren't painted, but it is hard to judge.

>>53712415
>They're the depressingly average benchmark for a lot of troop types

Yup thats space marines alright. But I get you. Maybe the morat rule is priced the way it is because of previous editions LoL was much more severe, i dunno if thats true or not as i only started this game back octoberish.

>>53712753
Sexual dimorphism comes more into play when you start looking at athletes/active duty military an such. Dudes can put on serious amounts of muscle quickly, plus all the future protein powders an other shit it amps it up too. The female domarus are decent, not wu ming reasonable, but mostly believable. Brigada girls are stupidly skinny, especially considering the vasquez esque mentality they would probably have. Like they are wearing compression clothes and not power armor.

New releases accoírding to Mayacast:

USAriadna Airborne Ranger Molotok
Yu-Jing Zhanying hacker
Nomads Riot Grrls box
Rodok Missile launcher
Sukuel Missile launcher
Outrage - 6 model box (Emily, Beba, Domovoi, Nakadai, Uhahu, Jethro)

repacks:
Teutonic knights
Ekdromoi 2 blister

It's gonna be a good month. except the repacks, but I didn't expect anything from those so eh

>>53713443
>Outrage - 6 model box (Emily, Beba, Domovoi, Nakadai, Uhahu, Jethro)

>>53713443
Ohhh shit imma get my loli hacker!

Fuck me. I waffled over getting one of the $50 starter packs for so long the sale ended. How often do things like that happen? I'll probably try and go halvsies with the Yu Jing/Haqqislam box with a friend, but I want to know how hard I should be kicking myself in the dick over this.

how would this work ?
Aquila with a machine gun
Hexxa with a spitfire
Two fusilier forward observers
one fusiler Liuetenant
Crocman Hacker
Akala Command Hacker
Nisse Multi snipe rifle
Orc combi rifle
Orc multi rifle.
300/300pts 6/6SWC

>>53712382
Blackjack model at all when? My brother and I were super disappointed when we saw there was no model.

Its now my headcannon that blackjack suits are just halfassed poorly made Al Fasid suits that Haqqislam sells Ariadna under the table.

>>53713843
It literally wasn't worth it if you weren't a Spaniard. I was going to cost me 22EU just for the shipping. I actually got a better deal from Game Nerdz, except I had to swap the BSG Sun Tze for the more badass-looking sniper one.

>>53713976
2018. Get fucked, Amerikanski. Still a few years before the Kazak sectorial, due out in 2012.

Does infinity have a huge learning curve? Purchased Icestorm, but it does not really cover much, i mean, rulebook thing.

>>53713946
Lt. is obvious and fragile if you're running the other Fusiliers as FOs, so I'd switch that to the MULTI Rifle one. Other than that seems do-able.

>>53714041
You'll get tripped up repeatedly while you learn new stuff. It passes.

>>53713443

Anyone know what the new Riots are going to look like? I think the current sculpts look fine, but hopefully I can pick some up for cheap.

>>53713976

I saw a guy paint his Geckos up in camo colors with a blackjack symbol on the shoulder, used them as Blackjacks in his USA list and regular geckos in nomads. They looked great.

I don't think we've even seen concept art for the real ones, but people on FB have said they've seen the model already.

>>53713976
It's my headcanon that Blackjack Girl When joined the corps so she could go to bed with Wulver Girl Now without being crushed. I'm not proud.

>>53714034
>It literally wasn't worth it if you weren't a Spaniard.
That is very good to know; I didn't even think to check S&H.

>>53714229
Gamenerdz ends up being within 10$ of the packs.

>>53714229
In the end, it was something like $82 from CB for the ISS pack, and $88 from Game Nerdz. And Game Nerdz came with free shipping that got here in two days.

>>53714441
You actually save a good amount with Game Nerdz with the Tohaa pack. The shipping for the Tohha set is more than thirty euro because of the sheer mass of metal that comes with it.

>>53709431

The good thing about Morats is that you can reveal your LT on turn one. The bad thing about Morats is that you're paying 4pts on every model for the privilege, which adds up.

Sogarats are pretty crazy though. Run it with Kornak to save SWC, then get some cheap specialists to follow them up the board.

Rodoks are also uniquely mobile with their super-jump and have decent profiles.

The Yaogats, I think, are the only MSV2 Haris in the game outside of Yu Jing. With shotguns, grenades, MSRs, and panzerfausts, they can excel at every range against camo markers. That's pretty nice when you have good access to smoke.

>>53714586
Kornak with Sogarat bodyguards is a truly magical thing.

So I'm reading through the rulebook for the first time. I'll try to get a demo next week.

On page 8 in the quick start section for LoF

> The trooper must be able to see a part of his target at least the size of its head

What?

>>53715230
you have to see at least a 3mm X 3mm area of the target, so you can't do crazy unexpected shots that should not be possible. From what I have seen the 3v3 ins't strictly enforced however. Usually if you can clip the edge of their silhouette you can shoot them.

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>>53715230
See pic related. That black square is roughly the size of a S2 model's head. If you can see that much on its silhouette, then you can shoot them.

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I've played MRRF exclusively for a few years (it's become a long wait...) and one model I've never bought or put on the table is pic related.

Besides being the cutest remote in the game, what is the Traktor Mul even good for? Every time I think about putting it in a list it just seems like a bad option. I guess you can take the TR version and give it Marksmanship L2, but you're still stuck with BS10 and rifle rangebands so the amount of things it can really threaten are minuscule. The 5 pt option isn't even a cheap order as it comes attached to a mediocre Dozer for a 19 point package (two base metros give you two orders for 16). Getting the guided mode off seems like a huge gimmick and poor efficiency of orders when you've got better stuff to deal with tougher targets already.

The Dozer himself seems a little lack luster, too. If you're playing LI (god help you already) the Moblot engineer in a link is a much better choice and D-charges for objectives can be had on said Moblot or Jacques.

tl;dr, wtf do I do with Traktor Mul? They are adorable, but mediocre and we lack the suite of fancy remotes and robust hacking to really do much for them.

>>53715325
>>53715327
...oh...that's kind of a good way to avoid the sliver of base a hair visible argument then.

>>53714089
It alright, i play with my friends who will be brought to friends by me.
But aside from that it isnt really as complicated as WH40k, right?

>>53715462
Isn't the point to take 2 for a 23 point package with 3 orders? I get ariadne if efficient but damn there is no way you are complaining about orders that cheap, that is also including an engi for classifieds/degluing ect.

Aside from AI beacons, sniffer/minesweeper bots are the cheapest orders most factions have.

>>53715475
It's MUCH more complicated learning curve wise. But once you get all the skills and equipment down every new unit you see will just be a combination of those in a different way. So you won't get surprised by niche units and rules that you could have by like 7th ed 40k.

A friend and I learned by just grinding games against each other and adding new stuff in bit by bit. It'll probably be 10 games minimum before you'll feel confident about the rules.

>>53715475
As >>53715564 says, its much more complicated but there are hardly any faction specific rules, and even those are just a modification of normal rules anyway.

An honest criticism of the rules is that they can be nested, as in you have a certain skill, but then it is based off another skill or group of skills/gives you a skill set. For example, any level of Martial Arts encompasses V:Courage, Stealth, and Surprise Attack. The good news is the wiki is there to help you.

Also the real rulebook is free, so after playing thru Icestorm, definitely start reading up on that. When you have questions on rules, hit up either here or the official forums.

>>53715475

Get yourself a tablet or cellphone, put the beta android army builder app on it. When you rotate the device to landscape mode, it'll let you see unit profiles, your army list, and weapons all at the same time. EXTREMELY useful for learning the game.

You can also click on unit abilities, and it will send you to the relevant wiki page.

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I bought the Yu Jing start pack and played 2 games yesterday with 152 points.

What other Yu Jing units should I get to make it 300pts?

>>53716105
what did you like playing from the starter?

>>53716239
I hated the line troops for being worthless but I liked the Hsien for having the big Gun with 4 dice.

>>53716105
at the very least, get yourself a pheasant agent for that chain of command.

Assuming you're using the hsien as an aggressive LT..... you're gonna want chain of command.

>>53716265
you're definitely gonna want to keep the line troops for cheapo orders. You can downgrade the zhanshi into even cheaper keisotsu or upgrade them to specialists.

As a PanO player, I WISH I could have WIP 13 specialists as cheap as your zhanshi.

>>53716265
Get a Yan Huo Invincible and you can have a big gun with 5 dice!

>>53715475
It's complicated but there's no "this unit has special rules from codex XYZ and its chapter rules, also it can take squad Y from faction Z due to formation Z available as separate DLC and uses a buff from character Q using rules from White Dwarf and everything is bullshit because of how the formation system works or doesn't."

Here all the rules are either in basic N3 or HSN3. The official PDFs are full rulebooks, missing only fluff and prettier pics. There are army lists in PDFs, but the official army builder is great and quickly updated so most people use either that or some alternative mobile one. Remember to click the skill names in the army builder and magical things will happen.

As anons said, one thing that might trip you up is nested skills (e.g. Veteran L2 includes NWI which includes Courage and that's why a Veteran Kazak doesn't have to make Guts rolls). Also assume that any L# numbered skill (but not letters like LX) includes previous tiers.

Also, http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/18880-infinity-acronym-glossary-for-newbies/

What is the actual scale of Infinity? How big are the bases? Could my eventual army pull double duty as minis for my cyberpunk game that uses a standard 1"-hex grid?

>>53713453
Noice.
Mercs have been getting all sorts of crazy shit this year.

>>53717202
it's 28mm but more recent models are closer to 30mm. All standard infantry are on 25mm bases.

>>53713443
>Outrage - 6 model box (Emily, Beba, Domovoi, Nakadai, Uhahu, Jethro)

Wait what? That's amazing.

I'd have been happy that month with just teh Zhanying and Riot Grrrls.

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>>53717293

>>53717202
>What is the actual scale of Infinity?
28-32 mm, the newer model are bigger (there's some scale creep in the process of switching to 3d modeling)
>How big are the bases?
25 (humans), 40 (drones), 55 (mechs, motorcycles), 70 (not-spider tank) mm
>Could my eventual army pull double duty as minis for my cyberpunk game that uses a standard 1"-hex grid?
Probably. It's gonna fit, if that's what you're asking.

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>>53713614
>hacker has a genetic disorder that makes her appear like a child
kek, just like my Mongolian camel birthing documentaries

>>53716105
Assuming you didn't get Red Veil which also gets you a tacbow ninja:

1x combi Guilang - solid workhorse skirmisher

1x Yaokong remote box - these remotes are extremely versatile toolboxes. You'll be hard pressed not to bring at least one of the 4 profiles.

1x choice of skirmisher (2nd Guilang, Kanren, or Ninja) - more up the field presence. Kanren has a variety of useful profiles and sweet model. The Ninja are melee focused to the extreme and costly, but have their used. Usually the ninja KHD gets used. The Oniwaban are ninja that take the melee assassination and alpha strike to the extreme.

1x high power HI (Crane, Su Jian, Yan Huo, Daofei) - Crane is a great all rounder with a bag of tricks. Su Jian is the definition of lightning bruiser with maneuverability, speed, durability, and decent firepower. The Yan Huo is the big gun. The Daofei has camo and can start right where you need them.

1x Guifeng spec ops - universal proxy that lets you try out other profiles.

That gets you a pretty good representation of the versatility and power of vanilla Yu Jing. Proxy loadouts to get a feel for what you like.

Additions after that are the Yaoxie remote box, a support box of choice (JSA's looks the best IMHO), and box of either Shaolin or Kuang Shi.

>>53713443
>Outrage - 6 model box (Emily, Beba, Domovoi, Nakadai, Uhahu, Jethro)

Fuck YES.

I just finished Outrage (thanks to kind Nomad that posted on /co/, I didn't buy it) and IMO it was kinda shitty as a story.

I liked the hyperkinetic art but the setting detail felt like an extended commercial and it derived too heavily from anime stereotypes without setting up the frame of reference that Infinity fluff does, or that you as a player build up between the fluff and the model. I guess the commercial is probably what CB and possibly many fans wanted.

The characters don't make much sense in the context of the plot and situation they're thrown into (Emily is portrayed as less experienced and much less hardened than Knauf, but her personal merc squadron has a wolfman who rips women to shreds and a flirty TAG pilot who'll punch her counterpart into literal pulp for a joke). The violence felt dark and heavy throughout, at least - but not often threatening to the MCs and with one exception where it needed to be a Santiago commercial. The comic - or Spanga or w/e - definitely felt safer retreating to stock characters and cliches than trying to think about the consequences of the story it was trying to tell.

7/10 for art (I would have preferred it having more experimental structural stuff like the hexagonal panels but it always felt very energetic, I think where it lacked impact and sincerity that was mainly on the writing), 3/10 for plot/characters/story.

After this totally unsolicited review, can I ask what did /tg/ think?

>>53718763
Better than I expected, worse that I hoped. My main complain was that the action was hard to follow. Most of the characters being one-dimensional sucked, but the ones that lived were fleshed out enough for me.

>>53716105

Protip: If you want to continue using the Hsien, you *really* want a source of smoke to support him. One of the otherwise useless ZhanShi can be proxied as a Celestial Guard KSCD to do just that, and allow the use of cheap Kuang Shi to supplement the order pool.

So yeah, you would want a box of Kuang Shi for cheap regular orders.

>>53718905
I felt like they were all boring apart from Uhahu, and even Uhahu only had the promise of being interesting. I guess Emily was just badly handled rather than being boring. And Jethro could have been interesting, the whole Knauf/Jethro identity issue wasn't handled in a pretty bare bones way Admittedly this is the kind of plot point that just comes up and is discarded in one page all the time in freaky sci-fi eurocomics - and there too we might get more pages of stereotypical loner introspection before and after than in the actual confrontation.

>>53718763
Its a glorified ad, and its better than it had any right to be. It subverted or ignored a bunch of obvious tropes when it comes to chinese comics and im just a little sad it was made as a one shot. The plot took inspiration from cyberpunk novels so it was satisfactory in that regard. Hopefully we get more to help develop the setting, more spy and corp stuff.

>>53719051
>It subverted or ignored a bunch of obvious tropes when it comes to chinese comics
I feel like you're reading bad Chinese comics my man.

>>53718621

Aren't half of them supposed to be dead-dead?

>>53719328
With the magic of cubes or just the game you're playing being set before they died they can still exist. We never found out if they are all getting profiles though. Uhahu would make an amazing switch.

How do you balance monofiliment vs TAGs? Obviously there are counters to it, but I feel like a "save-or-die" mechanic is just a bit too rough when you actually make the investment of a TAG in your list.

>>53719654
>How do you balance monofiliment vs TAGs?

You don't. Which is why you don't take TAGs* unless you have to because of the missions.

*Exceptions for Avatar and Cutter, since they can avoid monofilament more succesfully than most. Those are the only two TAGs worth anything anyway.

>>53718594
>>53718978
Thanks for this premium advice.

>>53719156
>implying most chinese comics arent total trash anyway

I liked how quickly the operation went to shit and how the team unceremoniously bit the dust, no heroic last stands or sacrifices. Too many mongolian motion pictures to be good for my health.

>>53720123
Well that's the point. How do you change the rules for monofiliment to make TAGs not dogshit?

>>53712415
I'd say Sogarat and the very nice but often ignored Rasyat too. Kurgat isn't half bad either, no doctoring but can do a whole lot of backline defence shit that Worm can't.

Most of the appeal is in the links desu. Anyat adds a whole lot to the otherwise mediocre Vanguard links, Rodoks are Rodoks, Yaogats are the only decent MSV2 link around with standard panzerfausts and haris capability, Suryats are a conventional but hard to hack pain train that can be taken in a haris with specialist filler, Kornak can take the less conventional Sogarats in a haris, and Hungry links are an incredibly cheap regular order generator. If it weren't for the quality and quantity of link teams MAF would be an absolutely terrible sectorial, as it stands they managed to claw their way to being okay.

>>53720242

Simple. Monofilament doesn't have its effect against Structure, but only against Wounds (and soft, yielding flesh).

But to be totally and completely honest, I don't really care if TAGs are non-viable. Ariadna doesn't use that crap, and I have no interest in playing by your anime rules.

>>53719654
You could make them take 2 wounds instead I guess, so it can be repaired. TAGs are huge, you can't cut through them in one swipe like you can a dude.

>>53720123
Cutter can't avoid mono well at all. No flamethrower or CC means if the ninja bitch manages to throw some smoke and walk through it there's fuckall you can do. TO camo does nothing against melee.

>>53720316
I hold a similar opinion with TAGs. I just think the game is mechanically better without them. Every game that they are in is extremely polarizing if they do or don't get dealt with.

I just like them aesthetically, and wish the game could actually facilitate them being useful, while also not simply forcing you as a tax to take one (like the tagline TAG missions)

>>53720426
They are useful. Hell, I occasionally use the Guijia, which is one of the worst TAGs around. It's not great for the very high price, a Hac Tao would probably better, but if you say it's not at all useful I'll laugh in your face.

This is like Bolt links all over again, and not post-HSN3 Bolts where they're actually a bit out of date. They were slightly point inefficient and had some niche skills, so obviously that actually means that they're complete unworkable shit that should never be used under any circumstances unless you actively want the enemy to win, because you might as well give up immediately if you've got Bolts.

I suppose it says good things about the game balance when most of the things the thread obsesses over bitching about are genuinely useful units that just cost a bit too much.

>>53720662
Well, more to rephrase my question, "how do you make games with TAGs in them fun to play for both players". For me, every game with 1 or more TAGs in them tends to go one of a few ways:

>Non-TAG player tries to stop TAG. Fails. TAG goes on murder rampage. non-TAG player either eventually kills it after heavy losses or just loses on the spot.
>Non-TAG player murders the order batteries for the TAG and wins on mission.
>Non-TAG player gets off a save-or-die (mono, poss, glue, EM ect) on the TAG unanswered. TAG player essentially loses as 1/3 of their list is gone.
>Both players have TAGs. One gets out-diced or save-or-died. Player with living TAG essentially wins.

That's not the end all be all, but you get the picture. TAGs also affect how you build the list requiring at minimum an engineer, making them even more protect-the-caste-like.

Also bolts suck and you know it (sorry you bought the NCA starter), TAGs are a completely different matter. The only bolt-like TAG is the Uhlan, which is still playable and at least has a neat gimmick.

>>53720662
I don't think he's saying they're not useful. In fact, I think he's saying the opposite: their presence on the field changes how the entire battle is going to go. He's asking for a middle ground where TAGs are useful but not to the point they are now.

>>53720859
I never bought the NCA starter. I borrowed my friend's NCA stuff to see if the endless shit talk around here was justified. It wasn't, though I can see where it comes from and it's more justified now after HSN3 introduced so many cheaper drop bears. Bolts exist to kill shit in the midfield and to be really obnoxious to remove afterwards, and they don't have much competition for those roles in NCA. Fusi links sure as hell can't do it.
I think my place outside the faction may have something to do with that though, as the PanO and in particular NCA playstyle is very direct and Bolts are all about annoying fuckery.

Uhlan would be okay if Cutter didn't exist. But alas, it does, and the improvement is well worth the price hike.

>>53713946
9 Orders and 3 of them starting off the table (Hexa, Croc and Akali) means your Aquila will be short on Orders on turn one. Good choice on having ORC Multi rifle as a Lieutenant decoy/secondary rambo, but ORC with Combi does not achieve much.

My advice would be:
1. Get rid of ORC Combi.
2. Downgrade that Akali to Boarding Shotgun; they're very good at getting close and personal to drop a shotgun blast in someone's back.
3. Add Fusilier Hacker (you need regular Hacking Device for Supportware, specifically Fairy Dust and Controlled Jump).
4. Add one regular Fusilier and use another as a Trauma Doc.

GROUP 1
AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62)
ORC MULTI Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
HEXA Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30)
NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

GROUP 2
CROC MAN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 36)
AKAL COMMANDO Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 21)

When you need them, you move the Akal and Croc to Group 1 with Command Tokens, after something in Group 1 inevitably dies (probably Nisse as those are fire magnets).

>>53715462
Phew, was waiting all shift at work to come back and answer this question. Now, take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm playing Kazaks not MRRF -- by the way, you have my sympathy and my camaraderie. You're honestly in a worst position than we are, and I won't be too upset if you get our spot in Acheron Fall's just to get the Frogs in a better position. Anyways.

As it stands, the Traktor Mul is a piece of shit. Unless, that is, you are playing against other Ariadna factions or anyone with relatively shitty access to hackers. In this case, it can be somewhat worth it because of the fact that you can use it as a fairly reliable Guided platform which we can put to great use with the relative mess of FOs that we have access to. I think the MRRF suffer slightly from this, but still -- sacrificing a cheap FO in order to potential drop some Guided templates onto a link-team can have its upsides. But you're completely right that all it takes is a good hacker on the other side of the table to shit on that. The TR is also pretty trash because of that BS 10. The Traktor Mul used to be at least gimmicky when the Katyusha was still a Triple Circular template, but now it's pretty bland.

The Dozer ain't terrible, but his best profile is the one that doesn't include the Control Device.

>>53715513
Honestly, it really isn't. And the sole reason for that is the fact that it has Baggage. We have relatively few Disposable weapons that need restocking and there's only a slim number of missions which care about points of troops on locations -- even fewer if you aren't playing ITS missions for the sake of something like 20x20 or YAMS -- the only thing that it really ends up doing is bloating your total points for the sake of retreat and then being a hilariously easy target. It's big, it's only got 2 ARM, and it's only got the one Structure. It crumples under a stiff look from a rifle, and all of a sudden, that cheap Minesweeper is counting as 25 points against you. Hell, if you actually take the TR one, it's 38.

It is much more worthwhile for almost every Ariadna faction to just get more of our cheap infantry instead of straight up self-sabotaging with the floating 40 points of retreat-fodder that two Traktor Muls brings to the table. For the French, instead they could bring two Inferior Infil, Limited Camo Metros for 22 or just three basic Metros for 24. Scots are bringing 4 Chain Rifle Volunteers for 24 points. Kazaks, two FO Line Kazaks for 20. And all of these are a better investment than a pair of Minesweepers that are just going to get shot to shit and burden you as far as Retreat goes.

>Random aside
Also, since I cracked upon my 2nd Ed rulebook, I wonder. Did dropships carry over into N3 or not? They're a special rule that are basically AD that was actually relatively safe and only really open for certain missions or with the agreement of both players. They never dispersed off table, instead seeking the safest location around their dispersion point and had 4 cargo slots -- infantry were one, motorcycles and remotes two, and TAGs three. There were even cut-out models and templates to give its presence on the table.

>>53720859
I mean, I just shoot TAGs with Tankhunters. Though I guess not everyone has a 30-something point unit that's literally designed as a TAG-killer.

>>53720915
>their presence on the field changes how the entire battle is going to go
I mean, shouldn't they? If I'm playing against another team of mixed infantry, I know more or less exactly how that game is going to progress. If instead I am fighting against someone that bought a tiny Gundam, I sure as shit expect that the fight has turned on its head completely into a new type of conflict.

And quite frankly, if I bought a Jotun and placed it down on the table, I'd be pretty irritated if it just ended up feeling like a slightly better Remote. I'd actually argue that that is the entire purpose of running a TAG. It's a direct challenge to your opponent that says, "If you don't either rush-down my cheerleaders or have a gimmick ready, I am going to fuck you. Your move." And again, as someone that never runs TAGs, I can dig that shit.

>>53722514
MRRF is the best place for the Traktor because they have actual decent access to supportware with the Alguacil hacker. Assisted fire is some good stuff on the Uraguan or whatever the fuck it's called. It doesn't have the burst or range of a normal TR bot, but it doesn't cost as much and an ARO of burst 3 AP+shock templates that ignore cover are pretty fucking nasty, especially against link teams.

The others are shit though. Ariadna doesn't need robots for cheap orders so the minesweeper isn't worth it, and normal GMLs in other armies are already niche enough before you consider the Kat is an inferior ghetto version.

>>53722622
No dropship rules in N3.

>>53722622

Don't recall any mention of dropships no. They last appeared in the Campaign: Paradiso scenarios.

>>53721406

A camo tag in NCA is still ludicrous, and bolts are pretty fragile for their prices.

>>53722780
Wait, the Frogs get an Alguacil? Huh. Figured they'd just get Wardriver'd like the rest. But I will say that even with supportware, the Traktor is pretty meh at most of its jobs. I'd rather have a Viral Rifle or an HMG in Suppression for anything up inside of 16, and outside of it, BS 7 -- even with the ability to ignore Cover -- is laughably bad. And yeah, Uragan is the TR triple and Katyusha is the revolting carcass that used to a hellish beast where you laid down three Circular templates in a connecting line to make an 18'' DA zone of pain.

>Zouaves (Sapper)
It costs .5 SWC more and -2 points than the Dozer + Uragan. In return, you're getting +2 BS, Foxhole state which lets you get free Mimetism + Cover bonuses for a -6 to hit and 5 Armor. And Mechanized Deployment lets you start it out upfield in a better position to set up a living TR remote. Drop him into Suppression, and you're good.

>Paracommando
Same SWC and -1 point. Mimetism and an HMG ready for Suppression fun. Still getting the 12 BS, Mimetism, and even Parachutist to slip it into your enemy's flank before locking down a quadrant.

There's just better investments for the MRRF if you're looking for short-range reactionary fire. True, none of the above give you two Orders instead of one. But the Dozer is just a Line Kazak with Courage and Engineer. And the looming burden of Baggage weighs heavily on your casualties.

>>53722780
>>53722834
Pity 'bout the dropships. Neat idea.

>>53722316
ok. thank you.

>>53718594
Hmm, interesting advice. I'm reading this a few hours after buying a box of Domaru, Aragoto, and the tag. Bikers and samurai cause they were cool and the mech was actually a gift from a friend.

>>53723823
If you're running Domaru, go yourself a favor and figure out something to run as Neko. That five-man link is terrifying and one of the only CC units that I think is genuinely worth running. Smoke support will go a long way, but Neko is straight up nightmarish if you can get him in B2B with his crew. And with an 8-inch Assault range thanks to Berserk and the ignore the penalty, you'll be cracking a cold one with the boys soon enough. I think he might be one of the best ways to kill a TAG. That shit is nuts.
>B5, CC 24 giving your opponent a -3 mod, 18 Damage, AP+EXP

>>53723823
Domaru are largely a sectorial troop for the Japanese. Not so great in vanilla.
TAG is TAG. YJ don't have great gundams, and they can be kind of difficult to play with at first.
Bikers are good though. The shotgun profile is a cheap and killy, hacker is a fast specialist that can fuck with HI/REM competition, and the spitfire is a nice and efficient secondary rambo to back up your main killer dude.

>>53723897
CC is shit if you try to force it, it's an inherently situational thing. The best CC troops are the ones that can get there reliably (which admittedly assault+2 wounds+stealth is pretty good for), not the ones that do the most damage. Consider Ninjas, they're only PH12 but hidden deployment gives them a huge advantage over most CC troops because they can actually get into CC without much effort.

>>53723823
All of those pieces you mentioned are pretty viable, just not my first picks coming off of Red Veil/new starter. The starter comes out kind heavy with one HMG packing elite HI in the Hsien, a solid brawler on the Zuyong, and the fairly pricey Tiger. Building up to 300, it's more conducive to fill in with low to mid priced utility models that can get you the objective. Remotes are exellent for this. You can then splurge a little to get a second power piece so the Hsien is not taking all the heat. Overall, remember moderation is key because outside a few key exceptions, Yu Jing tends to pay a little more and it adds up.

The bikes are probably the easiest to slot in. They take room and experience, but they can exploit a flank like few others in their price range. All the profiles are pretty good, with the spitfire and hacker coming to mind as standouts.

The Domaru are kind of strange beasts. They tend to be sub par shooters, but absolute beasts in melee. Melee, however, tends to be pretty inefficient unless you have a delivery system. In vanilla, they tend to more close range area denial. Because of their templates and CC, people don't want to get near them. Leverage their relatively low price and decent durability to make things uncomfortable for you opponent. Decent value, though the box is kind of overkill outside of JSA.

The Guijia is a mobile hard hitting and resilient piece. I tend not to use it because Yu Jing's HI can cover similar ground, though not all at once. TAGs require a bit of finesse to use (end in Suppression if possible), but can be really bring the pain. Just don't convince yourself that it is invicible. Remember to built a list that upon losing the TAG, can still function. There should be other viable threats in your list besude the TAG so you aren't completely hamdtrung.

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Daily reminder that you should collaborate super hard and abandon your weak, greedy masters to seek enlightenment with cool space robots. Joining the winning side early will be extra useful and net you extra rewards. Free ice cream and hot alien babes have not yet been confirmed by glorious EI but they're looking likely.

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>>53726772
>Avatar: 0
>Sexy Cyborg Space Greek: 1

What was that about the winning side?

>>53726772
Honestly, I could use a purpose to my life right now. It's my biggest weakness. This ambivalence. This depression. This anxiety. This hedonism on empty experiences. I wouldn't mind being taken over for a greater purpose, not that I would have a choice in the matter if it came to it, but still.

Speaking of the CA, new Paradiso adventure preview up in the previews folder.

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>>53726772
>the winning side

>>53718763
I actually thought the story was good, and it was way less of an advertisement than I thought it'd be. I really didn't expect anything approaching a real character arc or a strong central theme.

>The characters don't make much sense in the context of the plot and situation they're thrown into (Emily is portrayed as less experienced and much less hardened than Knauf, but her personal merc squadron has a wolfman who rips women to shreds and a flirty TAG pilot who'll punch her counterpart into literal pulp for a joke)

I don't really see what's wrong with that. Emily is a young but distinguished Hexahedron agent. She can afford to hire hardened mercs. PanO's secret intelligence agency is not going to skimp on mercenaries, they're probably one of the richest organizations in the Human Sphere.

>>53726824
>>53726854
>a dozen systems that can't stop backstabbing each other long enough to fight an external threat that appears to want them extinct
>against an intergalactic superpower that iirc can literally explode stars
The only chance for a human victory is if the big robot destroys itself and the local aliens are left stranded by themselves.
This is like a country village managing to hold their own against a small recon force from the US military. It's fairly impressive, but I wouldn't expect things to go well when the actual invasion starts.

>>53726839

Any sign of the latest dire foes fluff? Thanks for the heads up.

>>53727110

From the way things are going in Wotan, the CA are practically walking into the rest of the 'sphere.

>>53727110
*insert Aridna/Asterix joke*

>>53724025
You said it yourself, duder. CC is shit unless you're able to reliably get there, and Stealth + 2 wounds + 8 inch Assault whose mod is negated by Martial Arts + access to smoke either from Saito, Kitsune, or Jimbo? That'll get you there. The JSA -- and the Domaru in particular -- are probably the only faction in the game that I would actually say can and should be ready to rip and tear in CC. And it's not just the ninjas.

Even with slightly expanded Crit ranges, melee is -always- a fucking gamble, especially if you aren't able to boost up your Burst in CC. Domaru can get you up to 5 rolls which is basically a guarantee that whatever you just hit is going to explode. Before our JSA player swapped to another faction, I cannot tell you the number of times that his Ninja ended up in CC against something with CC 13-17 and ended up getting punched in the face and killed. I don't care what your CC skill is, but when you're just B1 and Damage 12 Shock/DA/AP with 1 Armor? That's laughable, even if you use MA to get yourself to 26 and put me on a -3 penalty. Compared to B5 and Damage 18 AP+Exp it becomes an even bigger joke.

I've punched a lot of Ninjas to death, to the point that I don't even really consider them to be threats. And playing elite Kazaks -- was already my usual playstyle and LI just made it that much more rewarding -- the weak targets for the Ninjas to pick off are barely there. Vets stand a good chance, the Spetsnaz are basically a dead heat, I'd actually bet on the Dog-Warrior in a duel, and even Tankhunters are CC 14. Scouts would probably be an easy kill, but they've got mine-nests to deal with. But if I had a five-man Domaru link coming at me, all of the above are pretty much guaranteed to die. At that point, my focus becomes entirely on taking out link-team members before dying.

>>53727671
>Vets stand a good chance
Not really, no. We're talking a 70% chance for Ninja to deal a wound against 7% chance for the Vet Kazak to wound. Tankhunters are even worse off, though they aren't likely to meet a Ninja anyway because they don't move up much. Your JSA friend must have absolute shit luck, Ninja with MA3 may be burst 1 but that one roll should crit more than a third of the time.

Going after actual CC troops like Spets and and Dog Warriors with Ninjas is a bad plan, don't do that. Ninjas stand hidden deployed near a doorway the enemy is expected to go through and then reveal themselves to hack or slash a nearby bitch. It's great for headgames, especially in vanilla where that 30 point hole in your courtesy list could be a Ninja or a Tiger Soldier.

>The JSA -- and the Domaru in particular -- are probably the only faction in the game that I would actually say can and should be ready to rip and tear in CC
They're the only one I'd base around ripping and tearing with that link, but plenty of individual units can do it when the situation calls for it. Any warband that doesn't fancy its chances with a chain rifle or needs to keep a big killy unit occupied, a Rasyat eliminating an annoying ARO turret under eclipse cover, or even Imperial agents or knights in the right scenario.

>>53727110
Well, consider that the EI is fighting a bunch of enemies at once. The Tohaa for example apparently have a significant galactic empire.

Really though none of this matters because a plucky team of heroes will eventually find themselves on the EI throneworld and blow it up. Strangely enough it'll be one person from each major faction, and maybe a Nomad too.

>>53728128
Firstly, the math is a 60% chance for the Ninja. Secondly, science is a liar... sometimes. With modifiers included, the Ninja is at CC 26, getting a crit on a 14 up. Meanwhile, the Vet is CC 14. So sure, you have a, what, 35% chance of getting a crit. But outside of that, you enter into rocket tag where the dice are just a fucking gamble.

You can run all the probability bullshit you want, but on the table, CC is a massive gamble in all but a few tiny circumstances. And I've got enough dead Ninjas to know that there's only one real God in CC. Well, two. High Burst and Berserk.

And that doesn't get away from what I'm pretty sure was the original topic. A ninja might be okay at picking off cheerleaders, but the Neko+Domaru link is one of the few things in the game that -- if it can get into 8 inches of something -- can reliably CC pretty much anything to death.

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2nd tourney ever today, limited insertion, ISS 5 man WuMing link, curbstomped by ALEPH today, 2 times. Pic related ERRLEPH

Starting to get my general ruleshit together, but tactically still coming slow. Don't really feel like I know what I'm doing during deployment. But also don't know most other factions units yet.

So I thought I had this area locked down by my WuMing paintrain. ALEPH first turn. Scylla, wow. She and her drones impersonated, walked right up, flamed me to shit. Broke right through, rest was wiping.

So I know Scylla now, not even mad, that shit was amazing.

Feel like I want to try cheaper links for now. Crane + celestials looks good enough.

>>53728789
Well, at least playing ISS, you have an easy answer to Impersonation.

>>53728456
>the math is a 60% chance for the Ninja
68.29%. It's not quite 70% I'll admit, I should have been more precise. But it's closer to 70 than it is to 60.

Ninja is terrible at picking off cheerleaders. I've never used one for that role and I never intend to. There are many better options for slaughtering backline mooks, what Ninjas excel at is showing up out of nowhere and gutting a specialist or rambo that gets close, before doing some specialist work themselves or moving to stab somebody else nearby. For cheerleader killing in JSA I'd say Aragoto for cheap efficient flanking, Shikami for good odds and easy flanking, Karakuri for 3 wound total immunity chain rifles, and whatever you've got linked.

>You can run all the probability bullshit you want, but on the table, CC is a massive gamble in all but a few tiny circumstances
I'm not just running probability bullshit, I'm running games. I'm killing people with my Ninjas. Sometimes they fuck up a roll and die horribly, but sometimes my Charontid smoke combos and my Hac Tao HMGs do that too. The one god in Infinity is luck, and sometimes people get really unlucky or really lucky a lot with certain options. I know a guy who simply doesn't use Intruders because they failed him constantly, and when I occasionally run my Raicho it tends to shrug off AT weapons that it really shouldn't. That doesn't make Intruders shitty or Raichos super tough. Different places, different dice, different experience.

Domaru link is pretty fun though. Usually I just go for the conventional Domaki team with missiles, but pure Domaru kicking down doors and beating people to death ain't bad. Not quite as enjoyable as the quad Haramaki missile launcher link though, that worked far better than it had any right to.

>>53728975
Unless I'm missing something, no. 60.62%. Running the math through Ghostlord. 61% chance that the Ninja gives a wound and triggers NWI, 33% that nothing happens, 7% that the Vet drops the ninja. I'll shitpost some more later, but I've gotta clean up some shit around the dacha.

>>53729021
Oh! I get it now. You were using the AP CCW, weren't you? I always use the tacbow with DA CCW (since the killer hacker profile came out there's really no excuse for any of the overpriced combi ones) so that's what I put into the system.

>>53726909
Right, but she's very familiar with her crew. So she knows and is unaffected by their actions, but Knauf's (in comparison far less severe for the most part) actions disturb her. I guess what you can say is she has an elitism probably typical of PanO, and what really shocks her is that Knauf operates outside that and later when PanO turns on her, too.

>>53728954
But I find Bao rather cost-inefficient if I don't know for sure that I'm facing Impers. I should have deployed so that I could have seen her coming a bit earlier. We were playing Decapitation though, 16" deployment zone, he reached me very fast.

>>53729469
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend any Bao without MSV. The only BMV one you should be taking is the one with both visors, and even that only in a haris.

>>53729418
I get the impression that Knauf is more disturbing because, as we see from his clone, he's always half an inch from going completely overboard.

The other two are just thugs with cruel tendencies. They do this shit for money and to some extent jollies. Knauf is a predator. He does this shit because it's who he is. He doesn't even enjoy it, it's like a mechanical part of him that he can't switch off. Even when he left Hexahedron, he was still a hunter.

>>53729469
Oh, they are. And >>53729624 is completely correct. The dual-visor one is a handy shut-down for Impers troops if you have him in a Haris. But having something on hand to counter Impers is always handy. Hell, even just running up with a Kuang Shi and Biolocatoring yourself for the boom.

But BMV are one of the few things that can help you on the Reactive turn. My only real solution is Intuitive Fire from a Dog-Warrior's Chain Rifles or a Vet's flamethrower. And that requires me being able to jump them, doing me no real luck when I'm on the Reactive turn. Luckily, I actually think there's only one person at my FLGS that has ever used Impersonation.

>>53729107
Ah, fair point. Completely forgot that the TacBow came with a DA weapon. It does at least give you a chance to kill the Vet. Maybe we've just had very difference experiences on the table, but dice just haven't seen them be particularly frightening. Now again, this dude does have such shit luck he swapped to Tohaa to template-spam and I do play an almost entirely elite Kazak army, so mileage likely varies from table to table.

I'm just leery of CC with most things in general. I rarely even engage in CC with my Dogs, and I don't think I ever have with my Spetsnaz. If the Dogs had Berserk or NBW, I might be more inclined, but as is, I'm much happier with B2 Chain Rifles.

>>53730218
>If the Dogs had Berserk or NBW
Speaking of the Wulver + Wallace link is probably one of the few CC things that compares to your Domaru example.

>>53728442
>and maybe a Nomad too

Fuck you, and fuck me for laughing.

>>53730420
Solid point. Had to go against it the last game I played. Those are some durable bastards, and the ability of T2 Rifles to randomly fuck you up from across the map can't be underestimated. It was 30 inch shots from one of those bastards that actually dropped my Dogs. Eventually just managed to hose 'em down with HMG and Missiles, but they take a good amount of punishment. Plus, they bring the same 8 inch assault to bear along with NBW to fuck up Martial Arts shenanigans.

I do sort of find it bizarre that Wallace doesn't have NBW. But whatever. I would genuinely like to see Domaru + Neko versus Wulver + Wallace a few times.

>>53728442
If I remember correctly, someone had drunken conversations with Bostria where he was hinting that in AF, the Human Sphere nearly collapses as the Combined Army made a more unified push, and the day is saved by none other than Ariadna as the Cubes the rest of the HS depend on end up being their greatest undoing.

>>53730693
It's a shame you can't do a full Wulver link and they're stuck with AP CCWs. If you could get a Wulver with a DA or T2 CCW that'd be nice.

>>53731498
That's true, but I would like the entire team to have C+ and max link team benefits, as well as for Wulvers to be a more aggressive CC threat on their own if Wallace is dropped (they're still pretty good, it'd just be nice to have more damaging ammo types than AP CCW). No shortage of smoke in Caledonia anyway.

>>53731375
Not as a Shotlandski player, but I think it's sort of a sneaky benefit that the Wulver are forced to bring Wallace. Gives them their own access to B2 Smoke grenades to help screen their advance.

My biggest issue with the Wulver + Wallace link is the fact that you're then sort of hard-pressed to spend all 6 SWC and find room for specialists, if you're playing ITS.

>>53731866
Deleted the old post to add that shit to it. And yeah, you've got plenty of smoke in the army, but having it in the unit itself is nice since all of the Smoke is just grenades rather than a launcher. And B2 smoke in the midfield can really fuck with your enemy's reaction.

I completely forgot about the C+. That's a solid point, along with the fairly limited ammo types. T2 CCW would be nice to see on a lot of the Shotlandski units. Always found it strange that pretty much the only one is on Captain Amerikanski, when the Shots are the ones with the primary T2 deposits.

>>53731929
It's just a way to make the shield a distinct CCW. Better that than to give him some sort of useless pseudo-Martial Arts CC skill that doesn't even go with how units and companions have been ruled in the past to the grand total of -3 opponent CC and +1 CC damage, right tovarishch? ;^)))

>>53732658
I honestly don't understand why they didn't just give him the Nanoscreen, or Naonscreen L2 that would remove Fire-Sensitive.

And trust me, no-one hates the Colonel more than Kazak players. Unless he gets Strategos L2, I will never run him again. And him being S4 solely to get a shitty ability that only protects him CC he'll never get in? Fuck me. I can't understand why they didn't just give the bastard an Antipode like the Devil Dog. Fantastic model, but some of the more retarded rules in the entire Kazak line-up, if not Ariadna as a whole.

>>53732789
I also don't understand why he doesn't just have an Antipode, and e.g. have Guard while the Antipode is around. He's a very strange unit.

>>53732917
>He's a very shitty unit.
Fix'd. And like I said, it's all the sadder because it means that his absolutely fantastic model is wasted. That box is basically just for an HVT. And an HVT that doesn't look as good as the trash-can profile.

>>53733100
Well yeah he is shitty but it's just trying to figure out the intention.

It's like, he's meant to provide Strategos and sit in the backfield and he's orientated to be a bit more durable than your conventional cheerleader because he has an assault pistol for short-range firefights, he has Guard and a higher CC if attacked in CC. He's got Sixth Sense L2. But... 0 ARM, 0 BTS, still BS 11, no actual Antipode for Sensor and a genuine CC threat, etc.

It's just... weird. Strategos L1 isn't something you often go out of your way for and you have plenty of actual defensive Lt. options who have Camo or are just much tougher.

I don't understand.

>>53733232
Also on the note of Ariadna Lts I hope Wallace dies in some fluff related thing and is unavailable because literally every CHA list uses him and it's tiresome as fuck.

>>53733232
Yup. As I mentioned in other threads, if you give the bastard Strategos L2 and bump his price by no more than 5 points? I'll run him every once in a while. But as is, he's an Lt that wastes his Lt order, he has shitty CC abilities yet seems built to try to survive in CC, and he's actually worse than a Line Kazak as far as ranged combat goes. Bigger target, same BS, less armor, and no Flash Pulse. I'm 90% sure they designed the crunch after they made the sculpt. Because he's just -- like I said before -- the most retarded unit in Ariadna. I have to hope that he's just a
victim of top-down design.

>>53733301
Never going to happen. Also, are you actually surprised that Shotlandski lists offer take William Fucking Wallace? It's like an MO list without either Joan or deFersen. It's going to happen. If anything, I'd kill to get Suvorov as a Recreation.

>>53733438
My problem is that the benefit he gives makes it a no-brainer to take him.

>>53733692
Well, yeah. That's how most people with Inspiring Leadership operate. Wallace is an auto-include because he's sort of the lynchpin of making the army Regular. And it puts a massive target on his back. Same with Joan, being used to hilarious effect for massed Panzerfaust fire.

Recreations generally end up in their armies lists, though some are definitely in better positions than other. You'll always always find Wallace, Joan, and Archilles or Ajax in their respective armies. Sun Tze and Saladin, slightly more situational, I think?

>>53733859
Well, some ALEPH players have a similar style to your Kazak sectorial and won't use the Greek units. Joan isn't so bad because PanO lacks the full complement of cheap orders and warbands Wallace has (you can still get Warcor and Tech-Bee cheese, which I think should actually just be ruled out of the game) and you must use her aggressively for the cost.

Sun Tze has one very rarely used profile and yeah, I think the fact he's expensive enough that he must be used actively on the other but that that profile itself is outdone by some of the other strong HI/Lt choices you have in Yu Jing and particularly ISS makes him less oppressive. Saladin feels truly build around, Haqq has a ton of viable Lts in the first place and you generally include him in a list where he will advantage you, rather than because it's a no brainer.

>>53734020
Well, yes. I was talking about Achilles and Ajax in reference to dat ASS. Vedic players are obviously a difference story. I guess I just don't really see it being a major issue. And I don't know a singular Shotlandski player that dislikes tossing Wallace into their lists. The two at our store love the fucker, and I can see why. Plus, much like playing against a TAG, it gives your opponent a clear secondary mission -- deal with Wallace, one way or another. Losing him at an inopportune time can really fuck up their next turn as they have to deal with formerly Regular troops going Irregular.

>>53734020
>some ALEPH players have a similar style to your Kazak sectorial and won't use the Greek units

Yeah this is kinda me.

I buckled and started using the Myrmidon officer because she looks pretty GitS and is super useful, but... all these years of constant ASS and none of the OSS stuff I got into the faction at release for have left me with a strong antipathy toward Greeks.

>>53733301
Killing him off in fluff isn't going to remove his profile from the game. Ko Dali is supposed to be dead, if I remember correctly.

>>53734132
But maybe CHA does not have to be played like that senpai. Maybe there could be a future without that William Wallace binary. Maybe - they could take his life, and give us our freedom.

Hello prospective new player, I was looking for more detail in how the factions play? Right now I like the model aesthetic of both Aleph and the Nomad, especially the TAG units. Also any tips for starting out, the scene here is kinda sparse but a friend is interested too and we might just end up playing against each other.

>>53735022
I'm also a newbie, and from what I've found so far, the best bet for two people that want to give it a shot is the Operation Red Veil box set or the Operation Icestorm box set. RV is new and has tiny Yu Jin and Haqqislam lists to run against each other, and IS is older with PanOceana vs. Nomad. Both look to be around $80 on eBay, or $40 each if you and your friend split the costs.

>>53735108
Thanks for the info I'll look into it.

>>53718763
Link to /co/ please?

>>53735817
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/92529617

Hey Guys i was wondering how dumb a kum rider list would be as i am very interested in the style of the minis.

>>53734901
Toni Macayana says hi.

>>53735022
PanO: high BS, good HI/TAGs/MSV, low WIP, not as much infiltrating, no smoke

Aleph: high stats across the board, lots of no-wound incap (essentially extra wounds), decent infiltrators, lots of smoke and MSV, high point costs as a whole

Haqqislam: High wip, lots of smoke, good warbands, only 2 MSV units, only 1 TAG, HI is solid but nothing fancy, great infiltrators, great doctors

Nomads: good smoke, good MSV, HI is ok but nothing fancy, multiple TAGs, good infiltrators, great hacking

Combined army: Very similar to aleph but less smoke more huge heavy hitters, overall heavy points wise will all the toys.

Tohaa: symbiot armor gives extra wounds, lots of fireteams (mini squads that give bonuses), no hacking

Ariadna: very low-tech, great infiltrators, werewolfs, good smoke but no MSV, lots of AP ammo and high arm, but no TAGs and little HI (although they have psuedo-HI with high arm and no-wound incap)


Not familiar with CA and tohaa as a whole but that is the main idea of most of the factions as a whole.

>>53734912
>implying Wallace isn't FREEEEEEDOOOOM personified
Wtf, fampai. Again, I just don't really see it happening. And again, you -can- do it. Shotlandski can exist without Wallace, there's just no reason not to take him. Same thing for Joan. That's basically the purpose of Recreations is to be bigger-than-life heroes that exemplify an army. Some aren't as much of auto-includes due to points values -- Sun Tze -- or because of their purpose -- Jimbo -- but they still serve as exemplary versions of what their army uses. And I doubt that will change.

>>53734901
>>53736643
Yeah, though Ko Dali isn't so much dead as she's been turned by the CA. Ko Dali became the Fraacta. Toni, however, yeah. Toni's dead and gone. But the best parts of her profile got merged into the Tikbalang. So Infinity tends to handle character death pretty good. Unless you're Exrah, lel.

>>53735022
As >>53735108 said, the best way to start for multiple people, is one of the Versus starters. If you like Nomads and your friend likes PanO, Icestorm is a steal. Otherwise, there really isn't much going wrong with getting a faction/sectorial starter and 1-3 more units. A lot of times, that will get you to a 300 point list with some wiggle, and it's rarely more than $100.

>>53736307
It's a meme, but you can run 28 Kum bikers if you want to be an legitimate shitlord. Otherwise, Kum bikers are pretty fucking swell, though our Haqq cheater faggot doesn't run them. Smoke, Ex Impetuous for extra orders, and fast as fuck. Everything you want out of a Chain Rifle warband, especially for only 10 points. The Khanate is the sectorial that focuses around the bikers along with Kasym and the Nazarova Twins with Halqa as their basic grunts, but that's due out after the Emirate. Haqqislam's four sectorials are the Sultanate (QK), the Shahnate (Assassins), the Emirate (the federal forces), and the Khanate (bikers).

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>>53736818
You forgot Yu-Jing.

>>53737074
Man literally every time I make one of those posts I forget one faction

Yu Jing: great HI, basic TAGs, solid MSV, ok smoke, good infiltrators with TO camo (ninjas)

>>53737009
>No tikbalang LT option
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53736818
>>53737109
Key for people not familiar with the game's language:

HI: heavy infantry, has multiple wounds.

Smoke: refers to throwing smoke bombs, the primary way to obscure visibility.

TAG: landmates from Appleseed. High point units that are tough, fast and usually heavily armed.

WIP: willpower, the primary stat for doing most 'intellectual' actions like hacking or applying first aid, also for checking to see of your units duck for cover when shot at.

MSV: multispectral visor. A relatively rare and very useful ability that counters things like smoke and helps detect camouflaged units.

Infiltrators: models that can start the game further into the board than normal.

Fireteams: groups of models that can all activate with one action, letting them do more things per turn.

>>53736643

>all the tiks got random upgrades at a small cost of her blood sacrifice

>>53738171
>implying losing toni was anything but a net negative for Tikbalangs

>>53738336
>lose Toni
>get a model
Sounds fair to me.

>>53738395

>gets a model with *upgraded* stats for virtually nothing

>>53733301

Not before causing Caledonia to declare another Seccession attempt first.

Just as originally programmed by ALEPH and Nomads

>>53738765
>Not before causing Caledonia to declare another Seccession attempt first.
>William Wallace is partially based off Nicola Sturgeon

>>53738395
Yeah that's fair, but essentially the new tik model is the old toni but with 3 less BTS and no LT option for the exact same pt cost. On top of losing a 78 pt budget TAG option. It's a complete negative.
>>53738765
But they weren't upgraded...

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Did you see in the PAN-O Section the stats for TERMAIN de’ Torquemada !! This guy is a beast
GRAND HIGH LORD INQUISITOR – TREMAIN De’ TORQUEMADA – Holy Knight of the Inquisition from the Kingdom of Castile

TERMAIN de’ Torquemada : ( Lieutenant ONLY / Advanced Command ! ) Cube / Reqular / Frenzy / Hackable
MOV 6-4 CC 24 BS 16 PH 15 WIP 15 ARM 4 BTS 6 W 2 S 3 AVA 1
Name : GRAND HIGH LORD INQUISITOR – TREMAIN De’ TORQUEMADA
Holy Knight of the Inquisition from the Kingdom of Castile
Equipment: Assault Hacking Device ( Upgrade:Trinity) 360 Visor ( Left Eye )
Special Skills: Martial Arts Level 3 : Religious Troop: Zero-G: Inspiring Leadership: Multi terrain :No Wound Incapacitation
BS Weapons: HMG with Combi-Flamethrower
CC Weapons : Pistol, Templar CCW (AP+Shock) – Choose ONE : CCW Sword/ CCW The Buring Flail/ CCW Electro-Whip *Note* ONE ONLY
SWC :1
Cost:55 points
+Note+ The can be only one GRAND HIGH LORD INQUISITOR TREMAIN in each army list
Special Fireteams: CORE -TREMAIN De’ TORQUEMADA and up to 4 Kights of Montesa
Special Fireteams: CORE -TREMAIN De’ TORQUEMADA + Joan of Arc up to 3 Kights of Montesa
New Weapons:
CCW The Buring Flail – Same as CCW ( Sword ) – except can set a single model on fire in CC – Rules apply for FIRE DAMAGE / Flamethrower
CCW Electro-Whip – 3 in range (only) – Electric Pulse

So whats the lowest budget 300 point army around?

>>53738942
The fuck are you talking about? The changes from Second to today.
>+1 BS
>+Climbing Plus
>+Antipersonnel Mines
>+5 points
The Tikbalang was 80 points, not 78. And the BTS was always 6, just Toni had 9. You literally get Toni without the option for an Lt and with -1 WIP and -3 BTS for -4 points. And now that little Crabbot fucker, too.

>>53738765
>Just as originally programmed by ALEPH
I mean, it's looking pretty likely. Just compare

>Avicenna was taken apart in one of the most cutting edge labs in the Sphere and anything linked to ALEPH was discarded and replaced
>deciding that's not enough, the Black Hand implanted him with a new ID chip and wiped his memory, before putting him in an entirely new female body with its own memories and sending her to school
>the old identity was slowly remembered over years and fused with the new one, ensuring that nothing remains for ALEPH to control its creation with

>Wallace hits his head on a rock
>HOW DO YOU DO FELLOW SCOTS
>I SURE DO HATE THAT ALEPH MACHINE, WHAT WITH ITS DEVILISH GOOD LOOKS AND LARGE PROCESSING CAPACITY

>>53739100
Toni was never 89 points, she was 85 and the current tik is 85

>>53738942
>>53739100
I loved Toni's WIP13 and BTS-9 as much as anybody did back when, but the Tikbalang's arguably the best TAG in the game as is right now. The price point is good, and ARM6 + Mimetism is more survivable than ARM8 is. HMG's good enough vs most targets, and having the mines, flamer and mobility plus affordable cost really dunks on enemies.

>>53739145
I wouldn't be surprised if Avicenna being 'out of ALEPH's control' turns out to be bull. She's ALEPH's covert liaison with the EI.

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>>53739190
Wrong. Second Ed, Human Sphere. 89 points, 2 SWC. And Aleph backs it up.
>http://anyplace.it/ia/ia.html

>>53739145

Wallace got a good looking at by the Nomads as well, after some jealous pro-Cossack clanlords sellouts squealed on him to said Cossack masters who promptly whined about him to their Nomad 'friends'.

Sure his direct links to ALEPH are (presumably) severed, but he is still doing his part getting to the top of Caledonian society and telling them what to do. And his original task hasn't really been changed anyway.

>>53738942

>get a blatant buff, pan0 playas still whining

>>53735022

Important thing to know about Infinity, it's very, very dependent on terrain. You can get neat cardboard terrain for $10-15 made by the Infinity people that will work fine if you don't have any already. The Red Veil and Icestorm boxes both have the terrain packs included, making them great starting points if you like both/either armies.

As for army breakdown:

PanOceania uses lots of heavy infantry and remotes (unmanned drones). Part of the army has strong Roman Catholic tones, with heavily armored knights and such. They're a very straightforward army with few tricks, and have the best shooting in the game. Their armies tend to have 10-14 models at 300pts.

Aleph is the elite faction with tough units loaded with strong abilities and bags of tricks. They've got everything, but their models tend to be overloaded with stuff. They have a strong trans-human and greek theme with remotes and heavy infantry. Average army is 9-12 models.

Nomads have a little bit of everything, the band of misfit outcasts. Their units are often focused on one or two cool things at a steep discount, but suffer from being very fragile. They also have lack of leadership options, depending on what models you take. Strong cyberpunk, mercenary, transhuman, and religious themes. Average army is 12-16 models.

The Combined Army is a group of aliens being led by a race of AI-controlled nanomachine people. Similar to Nomads in having a bit of everything, but instead are very expensive, reliable, and tough. What they lack in cheap units, they make up for with unique abilities and powerful weaponry. Average army is 10-14 models.

Haqqislam has a mix of light infantry, specialists, and a few reliable heavy hitters. They focus on tricks and reliability along with an average-high model count and some unique weaponry. While technically heavily Islamic themed, their models look more like contemporary desert soldiers. Average army is 12-16 models.

>>53739905

Tohaa is a race of vegetable people who control other races through spores. They focus almost entirely on light infantry, though their unique symbiote armor lets them be tougher than other factions. They lack the easy heavy weapons other factions get, but are able to make special linked units that allow multiple models to activate at the same time. Their armies average 12-18 models.

Ariadna is made up of basically modern day soldiers who were lost in space, and also werewolves. They have loads of cheap heavy weapons and special tricks, but have heavily limited heavy infantry. They also excel at placing models farther up the board, rather than in their deployment zone. They have strong contemporary American, Russian, Scottish, and French themes. Their armies average 14-18 models.

Yu Jing is the de facto heavy infantry faction, surpassing Aleph and PanO. They have a variety of HI options for practically every different ability you could want. They also have a suite of remotes, though they don't tend to field 6+ like PanO tends to. I actually don't know much at all about YJ, but hey, you get Ninjas! Typically 10-12 models.

>>53735022
>PanO
Shooty direct guys. They're pretty high tech, but most of that tech is dedicated to either winning shootouts or setting up shootouts so you're more likely to win them. Big selection of heavy infantry and mechs. Not many tricks, and is the one army without smoke.

>Yu Jing
Basically all rounders. They have good enough tech for things like attack remotes but a bunch of lower tech stuff like irregular warbands too. Have the widest selection of HI in the game. Were originally supposed to be the melee faction, but that didn't pan out.

>Ariadna
Very low tech. Lose things like real heavy infantry, remotes, hacking and high-level multispectral visors, but have lots of cheap orders, camo skirmishers and werewolves to make up for it. Plenty of irregular dudes as well.

>Haqq
A bit low tech, but not ridiculously so like Ariadna. They still have robots and heavy infantry, their selection is just more limited. Cheap irregular troops, very good doctors and plenty of shenanigans and trickery.

>Nomads
Board control. The best hacking coverage in the game along with some of the best hackers in the game, several great defensive units and flamethrowers strapped to anything they fit on. Not the best heavy hitters around, but they have a fair few tricks up their sleeve.

>ALEPH
Very high tech. An elite army with good stats on units and abilities that make them far harder to kill. Good hacking and lots of techy stuff, as well as some more assault-focused units with smoke.

>Combined Army
Even more high tech. Less focused on toughness, more focused on gimmicks. Some of those gimmicks are army wide (CA almost never goes into retreat mode or loss of lieutenant mode because most of their units have something to prevent it), others are more unit-focused. The best hackers around, but not great hacking coverage. Lots of big heavy hitters that will fuck up anyone's day.

>Tohaa
Weird bullshit.

>>53720379
>TAGs are huge, you can't cut through them in one swipe like you can a dude.

Do you even RULES OF NATURE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM33Hr94SKw

>>53728442
>EI throneworld and blow it up
Too bad EI doesn't use outdated localised server clusters that can be blown up. EI is all its citizens linked together with their comlogs and in the case of the Ur and the Umbra, EI is fully integrated into their bodies. To defeat the EI would mean to eradicate every single member of the galaxy spanning Ur Civilization.

>>53741132
>To defeat the EI would mean to eradicate every single member of the galaxy spanning Ur Civilization.
Sergei, hold my kompot and watch this.

>>53741104
Not a great example since that thing came back for more afterwards.

>>53741132
>>53741187

Don't forget to kill off all those other 'friendly' xenos as well, since it is they who led the CA to us to begin with.

>>53737074
And?

>>53741104
Posting more native example
https://youtu.be/rShBdvAQYkw

>>53739077
Ariadna is pretty much out of running. The 300 point army boxes are literally catered for that. Tohaa is the probably the most solid, though I'd add a few blisters (Hatail, Gao Rael, and Sukeul) to get a bit more variety in.

Outside of that, I'm fond of Imperial Service Starter + Wu Ming box + choice of Kanren/HRL Wu Ming/new Garuda. Not super optimized, but relatively hardy and the sculpts enjoy the current standard of engineering. Guifeng to proxy a troop helps keep things economical.

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>>53737009
Kum Anon here, so are these kind of like tier lists? like if you have only units from a certain sectorial you get bonuses or can you mix and match? Because i wouldn't mind fielding one or two of these guys

>>53742104
Sectorial are sub-faction special list. More restricted unit selection, but you get access to the handy Fireteam rules, different availability limits (usually higher), and sometimes access to units the regular faction doesn't have access to.

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>>53742126

>>53742104
The biker-heavy sectorial isn't hitting anytime soon. Now you can only take bikes in vanilla, who get access to everything in exchange for no/gimped fireteam bonuses. Which means you can take up to 2 Azrail plus bikes or 3 Azrail without bikes. Nobody needs 3 Azrail - they can't form fireteams even in sectorial

>>53722622
since when is baggage counting against you?
If the Traktor Mul gets removed you only lose the 5 points it costed.
Also minesweeper to munch the order of stray ai beacons.

>>53742508
>If the Traktor Mul gets removed you only lose the 5 points it costed.
Nope.

I am new to Infinity and bought the Wotan Aleph Bundle. What Would be best to expand that list, a Murat for some heavy firepower or proxys(I am thinking MK V and IV) for some cheaper heavy infantary plus the cool proxy mechanic

>>53742764
The mk4/5 post humans box is a no brainer. The ALEPH support box should also get some early consideration. If you not averse to adding some Greeks, the spitfire Myrmidon can be a great gun fighter.

>>53742831
I love the Murat design, but after reading how proxys work I really grew to like them. Yeah, I considered the support box, it might be my 2nd purchase, I am a very buy what I find cool to paint and field player and the support box is exactly what it says, a bunch expensive useful but unexciting stuff

>>53722780
Everyone gets the wardriver. It's a bigger investment as the HD costs 0.5 more SWC than the Alguacile, but SS1, BS, and having BTS make it a better model. Still gets you supportware.

But I have to disagree, there is nothing particularly nasty about ARO potential of a Traktor MUL. Any list should have answers to normal TR HMG bots. If they can answer those, they can easily deal with a Traktor MUL. AP+Shock is surely decent, but for it to be decent against anything, let alone a goddamn fireteam is relying on your opponent to be a complete fuck up and leave his own guys clumped together on the active turn.

Seriously, any link team should have one weapon that can shoot outside of 16". At that point you're B3 BS 7 going up against a link team who are usually something like B3 BS 15 on the lower end, and likely better.

>>53742508
Gobblinb up AI beacons seems to be the best use and even then really only if you have the meta that warrants it. Otherwise it's very niche.

>>53742764
Posthumans are awesome, but not 100% newbie friendly - fiddly rules. They're also highly $ inefficient - partly on account of being undercosted in the game, and partly because of Netrods. As for the Marut, your box is a good one, but doesn't accommodate a TAG easily since you've no engineer and maybe not enough filler units.

What you have is loads of mobility and objective grabbing but only one fancy gun (you'll want to proxy the Deva/Asura as spitfires and Dakini as HMG here and there). Myrmidons can take more spitfires and also throw smoke. Then the Asura shoots through the smoke and you laugh. Get Myrmidons.

>>53743124
I see I Guess Maruts are a no go, Will research more the posthumans. I Guess I really should Wait for the box to arrived and play a bunch of games to see what I really lack

>>53742104
Feel more than free. As someone already mentioned, the biker sectorial isn't coming anytime soon. Probably a year or so before Rodina drops. This means you'll be playing Vanilla Haqq if you want to spam bikes. Which honestly is pretty fine. You have a much broader base to draw troops from, in exchange for not having the ability to make link-teams. Think of it as a trade-off rather than simply an inferior option. You wanna run a shitton of angry bikers and a giant spider robot? Do it. All the faction's units are at your disposal, and the Impetuous nature of Kum bikers helps to make-up for the order efficiency that you'd otherwise get in a sectorial. Just make sure you bring some regular Orders.

>>53742508
Since literally forever. You get the benefit when it helps you, you get the benefit when it hurts you.
>Baggage makes its bearer worth an additional 20 Victory Points.
>This Victory Points increase must be applied when calculating the Retreat! percentage of the Army List.
It's an Obligatory rule, so you don't get to choose to stop counting this rule just because it's in a Null state.

>>53743040
Preach it, brother. The fucking Mul is a joke. If you're spamming FO, the Guided isn't terrible. But I just can't recommend it over those same 25-35 points actually used efficiently. Maybe if it got a boost up to Exp on one of its armaments.

>>53743181
If you play against a bunch of Ariadna, the Marut will be a god of death. I fucking hate that bastard. Marut + Asura x2 is a list that makes me rip out my fucking hair.

>>53743349
>Marut + Asura x2
...and what else do they have after that?

>>53743367
It might've just been one Asura, instead. But standard Netrods and some Thorakites. It honestly doesn't matter, though. Running Elite Kazaks, a Marut and an Asura slice through my army like a warm knife through butter. Asura laughing at Scouts. Win the Initiative, choose to go first, and proceed to cripple me in the first turn. First time, I made the mistake of fighting back which just exposed more shit to the God of Death that is the Marut. But even in a rematch, hiding merely prolongs the inevitable, slightly.

>>53743040
I'm not Ariadna, but I wouldn't ever pay an extra 0.5 SWC for that stuff. SWC is precious, don't waste it on the self defence abilities of a backline hacker. The Wardriver still goes down like a sack of shit against any legitimate threat anyway.

>>53743349
The meta on my zone, we are 5 people,mostly ex 40k players, who decided to get in with Wotan is going to be 1 yujing player, 1 nomad player, 1 Haqquislam player, and another Aleph dude, so no Ariadna

>>53743367
>>53743425

No smokes? Myms make them even MORE brutal.

>>53743485
Depends entirely on the faction, really. Kazaks have plenty -- well, three -- ways to dump SWC, but Shotlandski tend to have plenty to spare, especially if they aren't bringing 1st Battalion Scots Guard to the table. You pay a tax if you want a Wulver Haris, no-one runs the bizarre 2 SWC SAS, Mormaers drop 2 or 2.5 for the Haris, and then the 1.5 for the Grey AP HMG. Not really counting Caterans, since it's just .5 or 1 per Sniper. So I guess they have plenty of places to drop it, but you're rarely picking a whole bunch of the above in the same list. Might just depend on the player, but at least ours tends to focus his attention on shit like Wulvers, Highlander Rifles, and a Dog which can quickly lead to you having plenty of SWC to spare.

>>53743492
Well hot damn, that's a pretty nice spread as far as factions go. Is the other ALEPH player going for dat ASS, or are you a pair of Vedics?

Is there a pdf of Masterclass floating around anywhere? Also, if I'm not using an airbrush, will it be useful?

>>53743485
This is specifically in comparison to an Alguacile hacker available in MRRF who is also not an impressive hacker. Indeed, for the reasons I mentioned earlier, it is a less impressive hacker than the wardirver, but slightly more budget.

I don't know how it is in Vanilla Ariadna (again, I only play MRRF), but I frequently don't fill up SWC. The biggest baddest guns you get in MRRF are regular HMGs, one single Molotok or Panzerfausts (no SWC for those ones). Now that Knauf exists we got our first Multi-sniper, so I guess there's that. But outside of Limited Insertion SWC has never been an issue and sometimes even goes unused.

I'd love for my sectorial to get updated, but honestly I don't even think they're that bad, just dated and Janky and barely any options compared to every other sectorial in the game. Getting a consolation Harris like CB gave to literally everyone else would have been nice. Really wish CB would update all the stuff that is in the game already before dumping new shit in.

(this is true for all Ariadna sectorials though. Look on the army builder, each one is fairly anemic in terms of options available compared to other factions' sectorials).

>>53743349
Since we're bitching about the Traktor Mul can I take a moment to gripe about the Anaconda? What an unbelievably shit TAG. And I'm chained to that thing if I want to play Limited Insertion. Seriously, compared to an Iguana it's just sad, and that thing itself is not exactly highly feared. It's such a rad model, too (the Anaconda). Real shame. If it had 6-4 MOV and the pilot hopped out as a two wound HI like Iguana it -might- start to be able to be compared.

At that point it would be 9 points cheaper, -1 BS on both the TAG and pilot, Spitfire instead of HMG and LFT instead of HFT, but gains a panzerfaust. (also the TAG model has no spitfire on it. reeeee)

>>53744069
Well, I think we Will both start as vedic since the Wotan box was only vedic stuff but from what I talked with the dude, he seems more interested in expanding a bit his list and then collect other factions, whereas I plano to stay full Aleph and evetually have a collection of both sectoriais. Of course we are talking about long term plans Here, Theresa a good chance of the comunity not surviving

>>53744299
Phone autocorrect is a pain When it comes to typos if you are not on an eng country

>>53744201
If you're taking a TAG as Ariadna, it should pretty much always be Scarface. It still isn't a terrific TAG and the fact that it eats up 2 slots in LI is a real pain the ass, but it at least functions more effectively than the Anaconda, and Cordelia is at least a decent-ish specialist that can be fairly durable in Cover thanks to Mimetism. Also, the sheer joy of Assaulting 10 inches with a fucking TAG cannot be overstated. The sheer disappointment of Assaulting and ending up with 16 CC... Well, less exhilarating.

And nah, playing Kazaks, am always at either 5.5 or 6 SWC when I finish making a list. We've got so many great options. 1 SWC Vet Kazak Lt with AP HMG or 2 SWC for stripping Lt, 1.5 SWC for the HMG Spetsnaz, 1.5 SWC for the Tankhunter. It's only three options, but they're three options I am always pumping. I don't really run Line Kazaks, but there's some decent options there, too.

And yeah, the French are just fucking out-dated. They lack the tools to really exploit their amazing starting board control, and either giving you one or two options for a Haris would probably be enough. You Frogs have a really strong army identity, but you're just so old that a lot of the creep that has entered the game never was handed down to you. And with Shotlandski getting this summer, you get shafted yet again. Again, I honestly have no issue with you guys getting AF and Kazaks getting delayed yet again.


>>53744299
>>53744327
Sounds pretty good. And Infinity can creep along without much support, as far as a community goes. And expansion is moronically cheap. For ~$80, I bought a 300 point army of a new faction. More or less on a whim. Growing a collection is difficult to resist, and without the massive buy-in like in 40k, you can find yourself turning around one day and having 2-3 armies. Which means that even if it's just you and a friend or two, you have a lot of variety in games.

So what are the repacks (however improbable) you actually want or wouldn't mind?

>Eating action Fat Yuan Yuan & Red Veil Yuan Yuan
>Intruder HMG and Multi-Sniper

>>53743425
He should only kill 2-4 models turn one if you deployed correctly.

Then you should gut his order pool. Marut sucks if it only has 2 orders.

File: 8F18CD55-EFB3-4C5F-9693-8704A08FE0AF_zpsgzvmz1m6.jpg (209KB, 600x635px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 600x635px

>>53747324
>kills 4 models out of 10
>lel
>don't worry, the Line Kazaks will win the day against the Marut!
First time, I fought back on the Reactive turn. Second time, it was closer because I played more passively. But still, end of round 1, Vet Kazak is dead without protection of suppression. Tankhunters are most likely dead, unless Ambush Camo has given enough targets to trick. And now I've got Dogs that can't do shit to it, Scouts that can try and fail, T2 Vet Kazak that largely bounces off thanks to low Damage and also is at a greater risk thanks to ignoring Mimetism, and Line Kazaks desperately shining flash-lights.

Even in the second, where I attempted to get the Dog into a position to take out his cheerleaders after a more passive first turn, him and pretty much everything else just got shat on by the Asura laughing at smoke, camo, and mimetism while providing an iron curtain around his cheap shit. Gutting the order pool is far from a simple matter against that list. You're just trying to weaken your kryptonite by fighting the another chunk of kryptonite. If I was running Ariadna Spam, sure. But against Elite Kazaks, it's a real shitshow.

>>53745679
Axing the shitty new Tankhunter and just bringing back the old Tankhunter duo except with a bit of love to that hilariously ugly ADHL. Just loved them having a more unique look than "Spetsnaz, but with more pouches and without telnyashka" that the new ones have. Loved the old semi-sorta EOD look, and the Autocannon model is sex while the OOP AP HMG had a memetically operator operating operationally look to it.

>>53745679
>Wouldnt mind
Only new minis or minis that are in the N3 scale. Tiger Soldiers, Kosuils, Sukeuls, Spetznas, etc etc. Otherwise scrap the old shit.

And maybe just plan products better. If there are too many SKUs, why not just make box kits or double blisters for certain troop profiles to start with - like they did with the Kaauri.

>>53745679
Max Skorpio + HI Yuan

>>53744403
>And yeah, the French are just fucking out-dated
It really frustrates me that CB won't just bring things up to date, or worse will wait for plot reasons to do so.

A Haris link and some additional specialist support for Loups, Briscards and Zouaves would go a long way. Moblots are the only fireteam that feels like it fits in the current game.

>>53752136
And even then, I wouldn't say Moblots feel like they are current with the rest of the game. I honestly find it hilarious that the Moblots -- literally just slightly shittier Vet Kazaks -- weren't given the same blanket buff that Vets got for N3. Used to, you only had Mimetism on certain load-outs like the Moblots are now. When N3 dropped, we lost the Doctor -- RIP you magnificent bastard -- but got Mimetism added as standard. For the life of me, I cannot understand why Moblots weren't given the same benefit.

Specialist-wise, I think they're fine. Briscards and Zouaves have FO and Para, Moblots have Engineer and Paras. The lack of a FO Metro is kind of bizarre, but whatevs. Shit, my only real specialists that I run in my Kazak list are my Vets and Scouts, so you've already eclipsed me there. It's just some Haris options that would help to push them back into respectability. Being able to have two Fireteams to boost their efficiency would bring them into the modern game, and I think they'd be a really strong army at that point. Slap down a Core of Moblots or Briscards if up against Mimetism/Camo/Smoke, supported by some Zouaves sappers in ideal locations thanks to Mechanized Deployment, with a mid-field minefield of Chassuers. A Haris of Loup-Garou for a trio of B2 Viral Rifles with X-Visors, or whichever of Moblots or Briscards you didn't take. Mirage 5 and Para-Commandos for AD fun further downfield. I mean, shit, 11 point inferior infiltrating Metros.

Just a little nudge would turn the French into a really terrifying army to play against, even if you manage to win the Initiative. Also, a new Mirage 5 model for the love of God. Them and the Para-Commanders are pretty awful.

>>53754395
Moblots universally getting mimetism would be pretty sweet, even with a slight price bump.

>A Haris of Loup-Garou for a trio of B2 Viral Rifles with X-Visors
Somebody's forgetting about burst 2 ADHL+shotgun. Viral rifle is best used for offence or suppression in my experience.
Loup Garou could do with an update, mind you. They have 2 good profiles and 1 decent but weird profile that doesn't fit their fluff function. Stun grenades instead of flash, frag grenade option for the LGL, and viral on the sniper would be nice simple changes.

>>53755484
Fair enough, but not having to spend an order and a Command token for the B2 Aro with X-visors to dampen range penalties keeps you as a hilarious threat even across the map as opposed to the hard-limit restriction of Suppression. The ADHL is also pretty nice, that's certainly true.

And that fucking Sniper rifle has never made sense to me. Keep the flash grenades or swap to stun, I don't know. But a sniper rifle is basically the worst possible gun for a paramilitary unit designed to deal with dog-faces. That sniper should would only fucking make the bastard faster and more difficult to kill, while a viral sniper -- they've already got the borrowed tech for rifle ammo, how hard is it to get a fucking sniper -- would actually let them put down dog-faces at range. Now, I sure don't want them to have viral snipers as a Kazak player. But as from a fluff perspective, it just makes sense.