Why are the Arabian Nights settings so fucking underrated? The

>>53656176
Fear of beheading mostly

>>53656203
Get outta here /pol/.

>>53656176
>Why are the Arabian Nights settings so fucking underrated?
They aren't?

I mean, D&D had a fantasy Arabia setting in AD&D (Al-Qadim), Lot5R had that Burning Sands expansion... pretty sure I could think of lots more if I cared to.

>>53656248
There is a kernel of truth in what I've said though. The middle east is a rather... sensitive area to talk about and seeing as Arabian Nights is... yeah, that makes it a tad difficult by association

>>53656176
Oh, I come from a land, from a faraway place
Where the caravan camels roam
Where they cut off your ear
If they don't like your face
It's barbaric, but hey, it's home

>>53656310
It was a bit of a mindfuck to learn that camels were only fairly recently domesticated, and all the references to camels in the Bible/Torah/Koran were anachronisms that were added in later.

>>53656359
>Koran
>Having any changes to it
Get a load of this kafir

>>53656286
No, what you said is incredibly silly. People in the middle east have bigger things to worry about than dumb games, and you're not going to get your head lopped off for playing in a mythological setting based on not only the middle east, but on a mishmash of India, Asia, and even fucking Spain. But you'd know that if you stopped being a stupid racist for two seconds and thought about the words you're writing.

So I'll say it again. Get outta here /pol/.

Because the women have no rights and are dressed in trash bags.

Because you can be stoned to death for singing or dancing.

Because all of the bad guys just explode.

File: 91RJU8wKZhL._SL1500_.jpg (410KB, 1500x1096px) Image search: [Google]

410KB, 1500x1096px

>>53656176

People tend towards things they're familiar with. The unfamiliar is nice for novelty, but it's very rare that it'll become their standard fare.

That being said, there are some great traditional games. The Tales of the Arabian Nights board game being an excellent example, still probably the greatest storytelling board game ever made.

>people keep posting but the poster count doesn't go up

Weird huh

>>53656396
Having bigger things to worry about doesn't stop the dumb animals from detonating when they see a picture of Mohammed.

>>53656359
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel#Domestication

They were possibly anachronistic to the Torah, they were however well established by the time of Jesus, and hence Mohammed also.

>>53656422
They have the right to try to tell their husbands stories that are interesting enough that they wont be beheaded because he wants to hear the next part.

File: shantae.png (276KB, 1384x497px) Image search: [Google]

276KB, 1384x497px

shantae game when

>>53656176
Because Muslims a shit

>>53656422
>playing in a modern setting
piss taste

File: POPT2T_Throne_Dark_Prince.jpg (1MB, 2480x3508px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2480x3508px

>>53656530
Sequel to PoP 2008 when?
A good SoT-inspired PoP game when?

>>53656396
>People in the middle east have bigger things to worry about than dumb games
They made a fuss about Ocarina of time containing a Islamic prayer, they complained about pages of the koran accidentally being in a stack of papers that was dropped on Fireman Sam.

Muslims are never too busy to complain about stupid shit, and when one of them notices something like that, there is sure to be a fatwa to follow if you don't remove that shit ASAP.

>>53656176
Because muslims are shit people.
Non-muslim arabs love sharing and showcasing their culture, but militant muslims are to middle-eastern culture what puritans were to western-european culture.
Same with India, non-muslim indians want to share their culture, but pakis stone their women for wearing traditional indian clothes.

>>53656176
Because I'm trying to make a Sinbad: Legend Of The Seven Seas campaign.

>people complain about Muslims ruining their Arabian Nights settings
>somehow conveniently forget that OP posted Prince of Persia as an example, which managed to pull off the "fairytale" aspect flawlessly with everyone loving it
Okay.

>>53656396
>People in the middle east
Are not the problem, the problem are american losers that think acting like they belong to ISIS will unfuck their lives.

>>53656176

The big thing is I would love to play a game set in Arabian Nights or Al Qadim, but I don't see myself DMing for lack of familiarity. My only experience with the arabian setting is Aladin and a really crappy CG Sinbad movie.

>>53656176
Because as with any non-european fantasy setting, it isnt 'safe'. I dont mean in any political way, but that 95% of Fantasy is set in Not!Europe, so the GM will usually take inspiration from this instead of having to work essentially from scratch.

Without a GM who really wants to run a non European setting of his own devising, at most you'll get a Weeb-cliche filled Japan.

>>53656176

It's easy to forget, but even classic D&D stuff includes elements of that cultural mythology. The City of Brass has been a part of it since 1987.

>>53656248
>>53656396
>le /pol/ bogeyman
Yes Muslims are entirely reasonable people with no bad apples. I mean it's not like there was a shooting in Dallas over a Muhammad cartoon :^)

>>53656651
So ISIS doesn't exist in the middle east? ISIS wasn't seizing entire cities just last year?

What could be some good fodder/encounter creatures?
Desert bandits, wandering Djinns, giant scorpions, snakes and lizards?

>>53656530
Shantae is cute and not for lewd

>>53656396
>People in the middle east have bigger things to worry about than dumb games
Oh really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_Innocence_of_Muslims
>Over 50 deaths
>Nearly 700 injured
>Over an incredibly shitty movie that has "grandpa using his 1970 camcorder in his basement" quality

File: aXm9843xjU.jpg (103KB, 650x650px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 650x650px

abandon thread
reality leaking into fantasy discussion
abandon thread

>>53656947
Why do adults say this shit

Holy fuck are you literally develomentally retarded to the point that your thoughts take the form of shitty anime memes?

>>53657068

It's depressing. Although also kind of a perfect answer to OP's question.

We can't discuss a beautiful, fascinating and influential cultural mythology because of... Well. All this bullshit.

>>53656176
Nobody in the Middle East makes tabletop and nobody else is interested in all that sand.

>>53656396
>People in the Middle East have bigger things to worry about than dumb games
Then why does Iran have at least one videogame studio? They released some Uncharted ripoff a few years ago.

>>53656176
I think they're memed more than underrated? But the ones that we have are enjoyed. PoP, Sinbad movie, Al-Qadim, 1001 Nights, Nightmares Underneith are all fairly acknowledged as interesting stuff of the top of my head. Dune too in a way.

>>53657263

Because the middle east and the people in it, regardless of the ignorance of /pol/ idiots, is an incredibly varied place with a huge disparity in quality of life, culture and social norms.

>>53657295
But I thought you said they had bigger things to worry about than dumb games.

>>53656176
Racists hate it because it puts the focus on brown people.
SJWs hate it because it stereotypes brown people.

>>53657272
>undermeme'd

>>53656396
>>53656568

One of the musical tracks in LittleBigPlanet originally contained two lines from the Qur'an, and it resulted in a worldwide recall. Negative reactions to games (and absolutely to other entertainment as well) are not at all without precedent. Not to say that's the sole, or even primary reason there aren't more middle eastern settings, but let's do away with the false pretense. There is basis in reality here, and besides that, even just the perception itself that it could be politically insensitive will be enough to dissuade many creators. Anyway,

>>53656670
This is likely the primary culprit. Simple supply and demand. Compound with the aforementioned political sensitivity, and creating such a setting looks commercially untenable. Which then leaves things in the hands of enthusiastic GMs who, let's face it, probably won't do such a tremendous job all on their own, and certainly their setting isn't getting published to a wider audience.

>>53656737
The City of Brass seems pretty warm. Is it large enough to set much of a game in, though, or more a location to visit?

>>53657130
>influential
On who? Certainly nobody reading this.

>>53656794
>no white people have ever killed anyone in the USA for a shitty reason
:^)

File: wow.png (187KB, 361x691px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 361x691px

>>53657304
>not beheading people over a board game means no game development exists in the entire region

>>53657370
>Killing is a-okay because other people did it at some point.

>>53657402
That's not what you said, anon my little habibi. You said they didn't have time for games. Yet they do.

>>53657405
Yes, Americans are entirely reasonable people with no bad apples.

>>53657086
>Holy fuck are you literally develomentally retarded to the point that your thoughts take the form of shitty anime memes?
Says the guy expending energy to complain about it

>>53657425
He actually said "people in the Middle East don't have time for games", not "no people in the Middle East have time for games".

>>53657490
That's a semantics argument. The term 'people', without any qualifiers, is presumed to apply to the entire group being spoken of. Grammatically, he did not need to specify any further to cast a wider scope, yet he would have to specific if he meant a narrower scope.

>>53657086
>Why do adults say this shit
Why do you think the poster was an adult, Anon.

Summer is here, after all.

>>53657430
>getting thus buttblasted because someone proved you wrong

File: where do you think you are m8.jpg (43KB, 400x302px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 400x302px

>>53657086

>>53656176
My buddy DM'd an Arabian Nights flavored D&D 1E (I know...) It was actually a nice change of pace, although the Cleric of our group ended up leading us on a righteous Jihad and most of the time was spent taking turns mulching townsfolk and paladin armies. Girls did not mind the setting, but one had to be a horrible recluse sand witch and the other just played as pimp exotic animal trading charisma dude.

>>53656864
How does that affect your life directly?
That's a politica problem for politicians to solve.
What can get a middle-class american nerd hurt for playing make believe dice games in the arabian nights, are idiots who use those political problems as a justification for their murder-suicide.

>>53657978
>american

>>53657978
>How does that affect your life directly
>what is terror attacks being orchestrated abroad
Gee anon I don't know.

>>53657086
>How dare these people act like man children on my board about playing pretend

>>53658039
What's your point, other than being hysterical for the fun of being hysterical?
The thread says playing anything that even remotely resembles Islam is problematic because ISIS is a thing, and even if ISIS isn't a thing in your western country ISIS inspired local terrorists are still a thing.

File: cori.jpg (122KB, 640x626px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 640x626px

hows about arabian nights,
in space!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1192053011/coriolis-a-sci-fi-rpg-from-the-makers-of-mutant-ye

>>53656396
Muslims blow themselves up if you draw an picture of Mohammad in Paint. It's not irrational to be afraid.

>>53656568
That was actually Nintendo on their own. They have a strict no-religious-imagery rule, and took it out once they realized what they had done.

The other stuff is true, though.

Niggaa it's an Arabian nights-lite thread the fuck are ya talking about

File: 06_14_ZM.png (115KB, 636x476px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 636x476px

>>53656176
>it's "muh Islam" episode on /tg/
Meanwhile, people have mentioned settings that are clearly "Arabian Nights"-inspired yet contain zero references to Muslims.
Shantae, Prince of Persia, Echoes of the Astral Empire, Magi etc. hell, even fucking Sonic has a proper "Arabian Nights"-inspired game - and that's just games/anime shit, not even movies or books.

The main point of the Arabian Nights setting was never the fact that it's set in an Arabian setting - that's a requirement, but not the focus. The focus is that the setting is treated as a wondrous fairytale storybook, full of mysticism, adventure and grandness.
The grandiose palace architecture, the ancient demons, the mystical and majestic creatures like the Roc bird or the various beetle variations, the beautiful hanging gardens contrasted by the barren deserts, the mirage oasis that can be seen at the horizon - these are what defines an Arabian Nights setting. And not fucking Islamic religion.

>>53658904
If you're taking Islam out of the setting entirely, then it can hardly be called an Arabian setting. It is innately and deeply tied into the cultural substrata in myriad ways. Those settings that do not mention the religion, still have its cultural practices ingrained into the displayed society, they just decline to mention where those practices came from.

>>53659099
Yes, and? What the problem of not mentioning Islam directly in your setting?

>>53659172
Complaining about Islam is not so much complaining about a religion for existing, as it is a negative reaction to its cultural practices and the poor behaviors of its followers inspired by those practices. Those would still exist even if you decline to specify there is a religion behind it, and thus nothing would really change.

>>53659201
So barbaric and feudal practices that are prevalent in medieval settings are somehow better?

>>53658351
>being hysterical for the fun of being hysterical
I answered your question you fucking sperg. We've had 2 terror attacks in the UK in just a few weeks. It isn't irrational fear when it is actually happening. Bury your head in the sand if you want.
>Islam is problematic because ISIS is a thing
No you stubborn dick, you said "People in the middle east are not the problem" but you're fucking wrong because these problems originate from the middle east. Anyone who says all Muslims are the problem is just as big of a fuckhead as people like you who say "lol ISIS aren't muslims".

>>53659236
Generally. Especially when most settings tone them down.

>>53659299
What stops you from toning them down in an Arabian Nights setting?

>>53657430
Excellent point attempting to reverse his own argument against him.

For instance, I can't remember any point in time since 9/11 and the War on Terror that the U.S. hasn't been heavily criticized constantly for its involvement in the international arena, from literally everyone, including itself. Nearly every action that the U.S. has taken has come under incredible scrutiny from the international arena, especially it's more violent and quasi-legal actions that have led to the destabilization of several countries.

It's almost like, if you're fucking up, people will call you out on it. It's just that now, some people feel the need to say that certain groups of people can't be criticized, especially if that critique is coming from rich white people aimed at darker skinned, colored people.

Sure, they may have some life experience to lead them to believe that such actions by rich white people may lead to violence against their dark-skinned, poor people and therefore it would make sense that they would want to fight against and stand contrary to any such actions taken by rich white people. It's a rather reasonable reaction, honestly.

I just think it's odd that if the tables are reversed and you've got darker skinned, poorer people assaulting the culture, country, economy, or creed of richer white people the reaction is "SHUT UP YOU BIGOT!!!". I mean, it's not like the entire Western world hasn't had to live with nearly constant terrorist activity perpetrated by Muslim groups and Muslim lone-actors for over a decade. But it's utterly unreasonable to assume that the darker skinned, poorer people are also a threat despite the extended history of that not being the case according to people like you.

Eat shit, you sententious, pseudo-intellectual, platitude spouting fuccboi. You don't even know what logic or reason is. You're either a contrarian or a butthurt darky who wants petty revenge against a perceived injustice.

>>53659322
I don't think you can tone them all down without losing any claim they're an Arabian setting.

File: v1.jpg (229KB, 799x1066px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 799x1066px

>>53656655
I hope you are not referring to the Dreamworks movie of Sinbad, that shit was legit

>>53659365
>A dog
Absolutely haram. Dogs are filthy creatures unworthy of love, respect, or care. It is a sin to associate with a dog outside of when it is absolutely necessary.

>>53656176
Too many brownos pal

>>53659361
This is also part of it, Arabian settings would have to have things that are thought of as quintessentially "Arabian" like Harems, and probably a Not!Islam religion.
Otherwise you may as well just play a generic fantasy game set in a desert.

>>53659361
So you can tone the feudal practices down without losing any claim it's a medieval setting?
Sorry, mate, but that's just bullshit. There is no basis to saying one is okay and the other isn't.

>>53659430
Considering all you gotta do is not punish heretics so bad for a feudal society? Yeah, it's much easier.

>>53659471
And all you gotta do is not behead for benign offenses or consider women property for an Arabian society.

>>53659543
Those are pretty big societal changes, hombre.

You also have to account for things like dogs being disgusting scum you are to kill on sight, now that I think about it.

>>53659543
Don't forget removing the hands of thieves.

>>53659565
And you think that medieval settings are not awful enough when considering them realistically? You know, like treating peasants as your property? Or burning people at stake just because you are a corrupt priest who wanted to seize someone's property?
Hell, I don't even think things like "behead for benign offenses or consider women property for an Arabian society" should be removed. Toned down and not shown as prominently? Sure. But it sets the tone that the society is strict about shit. Same about removing the hands of thieves, as >>53659616 mentioned.

>>53659691
Removing the stake thing is downplaying punishment of heretics, anon. I mentioned that.

>>53659691
You basically cannot ignore the women thing because your players need to know specifically why they can't play a woman.

File: 1496459251962.jpg (26KB, 352x550px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 352x550px

>>53656434

>Friend pulls this out
>okay sure
>2 hours later everyone else has been turned into a woman or a dog
>I have a giant pile of treasure and the love of Allah

felt good man

>>53656248

I wonder which is worse. /pol/acks that come here to derail thread or the idiots that help them.

>>53659727
So when public hangings are seen as a reason for a social gathering by most families it's not morbid?
So when an inbred noble fuck abuses his privileges and rapes his servants, and if you do shit about him, he'll just be replaced with someone worse it's not morbid?
There is a lot of fucked up shit about medieval times that is not immediately noticed, because we don't focus on it. Why you think we can't choose not to focus on fucked up shit in Arabian settings is beyond me.
>>53659754
I'm pretty sure my players can handle the fact that they can't play a woman in a setting where women have restricted rights (or play a woman with what amounts as basically "kill-on-sight" warrant on her head), if they can handle the fact that they can't play a human in no-humans setting.

>>53659422
>>53659430
It seems like the problem here is drawing the line between aesthetics and stereotyping when the stereotypes are generally pretty extreme but the aesthetics are poorly defined.

Medival settings are simple; castles, knights in armor, swords, and wizards if you want to get more fantastic. Things like the crusades, plagues, and the grittier details of war like fecal-tipped arrows are redacted or skipped over. Arabian setting generalized is usually >>53658904 , spices, camels, curvy swords and fire weapons. However that doesn't cover enough bases to feel relatable or "complete" as a setting from just that much.

No one goes through a list of cultural references and recommended political ideology before buying a videogame. People also don't usually expect every videogame to include total accuracy, but at least a generalized snapshot of the relevant real-world elements.

>>53659839
The idiots, as they will attack you for being /pol/ for making jokes and cheeky comments that has been on 4chan since the beginning like:
>>53656203

>>53659850
Your first example is true unto the modern day, in a way. And your second is not a cultural phenomenon, it's an individual one.

>My players
I wasn't aware your players were all players.

>>53659976
> And your second is not a cultural phenomenon
Peasants being treated as property is not an individual phenomenon, it's a cultural one.

>>53660024
A noble raping his servants is an individual one, anon. You were too specific.

>>53660039
Fine, replace rape with beatings or something. The point still stands.

>>53659839
>>53659896

It is a question of who's at fault, the thief or the homeowner who left the door open.

I mean if you remove either the problem would probably be solved. Although you argue /pol/ might be worse as even if you remove the idiots, they might still find ways to derail the thread.

>>53660058
Also an individual thing. You're conflating individual abuses for societal practices.

>>53660067
So you're saying that disproportionately punishing your servants for minor offenses was an individual issue, not a societal one? Are you and I living in different timelines or something?

>>53660098
Yes, because without a legal proscription for punishments, the punishment is always going to be up to an individual's whim.

>>53660121
> without a legal proscription
What is Salic law for 200$, Alex?

>>53660147
Quote me the line where Salic law gives specific punishments for these minor offenses you keep mentioning.

>>53660166
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/salic.asp
While peasants were not considered slaves per se, most of the practices concerning them were rarely different.

Also, Anglo-Saxon law specifies some of the punishments and cases that weren't present in Salic law.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/saxlaw.asp

Also, we'll have to continue this discussion at a later date, 'cause I have to leave shortly.

>>53660261
You keep going back to the slave status thing. This is irrelevant, I am only talking about actual treatment, not status.

Also, anglo-saxon law is hardly what people think of when they're talking about a medieval society. You might as well be talking about celtic ireland.

Also, need I remind you that the Middle East had a similar system to feudalism called Iqta?

You people keep talking about the middle east as if there are people the there, there are not. Just muslims and jews, no actual people.

File: disgust.gif (107KB, 650x450px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 650x450px

I come to this board to talk about roleplaying games and to escape my lame and boring real world and its complicated politics for a bit. Couldn't you fuckers do the same? Must you vomit this shit up everywhere you go in a vain attempt to be "right" on the internet and convince someone they're wrong, as if it's ever going to happen?

Can't we just talk about Arabian Nights games? I rather like Al-Qadim myself.

File: Bashar-al-Assad-dictador.jpg (68KB, 498x700px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 498x700px

>>53660374

There are lots of cute Christian girls in the middle east. We have to save them.

>>53656176
Largely because the mythos isn't very deep. Muhammad, may he rest in peace, was very thorough in wiping out the idolatry of the Bedouin.

>>53660479
A fresh nights game for OP

http://store.steampowered.com/app/368420/Mirage_Arcane_Warfare/

>>53656285
>Lot5R
L5R.

File: 1489121405482.png (64KB, 316x280px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 316x280px

>People don't realize that before Islam the civilizations of the Middle East had very rich cultures and traditions.

>>53656176
Western audiences either don't care enough about the setting or only know enough to think there's a genie and jihadists around every corner.

I tried doing a "middle eastern" theme to one of my games. Everyone of my players insisted on being a "stranger in a strange land" character and ended up starting a bloody crusade to reclaim the holy-land.

Unless western audiences are making three wishes or killing droves of towelheads, they simply don't care.

>>53656670
>95% of Fantasy is set in Not!Europe,
>Not!Europe
>NotNotEurope
>Exactly Europe
Wrong! They are in !Europe or NotEurope.

File: Thousands and One Nights Meguay Baker.pdf (4MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1x1px

Holy shit you faggots need some Thousand and One Nights.

>>53657263
Oh that Farwah game? Yeah they got bombed dude.

>>53660729

>tfw Mongols and Islam teamed up to just ruin it all forever.

>>53660729
>People have forgotten the Sassanids, the Parthians, the Ottomans, the Byzantines, ancient Mesopotamia, Seleucids, Greeks, etc
You disappoint me, /tg/.

Man, /pol/ doesn't waste an opportunity to shit up the place, does it.

Arabian Nights doesn't happen much for the same reason Native American, African, Chinese, Ancient Greek, or pretty much any setting but pseudo-medieval-Europe doesn't happen: Because people aren't familiar with it.

But the great thing about /tg/ is that we don't have to wallow in that. If someone brings us something new, we can make something out of it.

So what's the plan? What kind of setting are we making here?

>>53660774

I sympathize, but that is kind of funny.

File: 1451116177898.jpg (50KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 600x400px

>>53660506
>Copts
>Oriental Orthodox
>Christians

They turn into Aladdin. And once that Robin Williams genie inevitably appears the campaign goes off the rails.

>>53660871
>oh no, the /pol/ bogeyman is going to get me!
Or could it just be that sandniggers ruin everything by blowing shit up maybe?

Arabian Nights question.

Is the source material super racist, or is that the Burton translation, or both?

Because the last time I read it the framing device was about a big scary black man cucking the sultan, which, come on. That's pre pol pol tier.

>>53656650
Shh, you're killing /pol/'s boner

>>53660729
Too bad we don't have much on it.

>>53656176
THICC carpets

>>53660871
Chinese-inspired settings exist.

Native Americans don't work because of how fragmented and primitive it is.

African, by which I assume you mean sub-saharan, is also primitive.

There's no good reason for no ancient greek RPGs though.

>>53658488
Look neat. Does it exist yet? Are there PDFs somewhere? Anyone played it?

>>53660790
This isn't one of those annotated abominations is it?

>>53661057
>There's no good reason for no ancient greek RPGs though.
Shit, there isn't. Between the city-states, godlike heroes walking among men, the isolated monsters in the wilderness, the sailing and the Great Unknown outside of the Hellenistic world, it makes for a great setting!

For "races" I'd just have humans from different regions. Spartans, Athenians, Thebians, Macedonians, Thracians, Persians, Egyptians, "Colonials" (Massilians and the like) would all have different stats and specialties.

>>53661088
It's not the actual stories, it's a game but can be used as a supplement to running games in this style.

>>53661064
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/204291/Coriolis--The-Third-Horizon-core-book

have not played it myself, pondering to rally my team for a go at it once the sword n sorcery we play now is over

>>53660954
Here's something they don't tell you much these days, anon.

Arabs fucking hate blacks. They get into fights these days where they end up together (refugee centers and such), and even back in the day Islamic writers would always shit on them and invent new slurs for them. Even fellow Muslims, they'd often treat worse than they did whites and asians, who they generally considered inferior but not worthless or as lowly.

File: BazaarOfBaghdad.jpg (31KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 223x310px

>>53656176
Because of WotC's reprint policy

>>53661123
I see.

>>53660954
>the framing device
Isn't the framing device about a sultan executing all of his wives after taking their virginity, and Scheherazade, his latest wife, is preventing that from happening by entertaining him with stories every night so he'd rather listen to her than have sex? I don't remember any scary black men cucking him.

>>53661325

Weren't the original stories of Djinn based on blacks?

>>53661490
I doubt it, since djinn are based on pre-islamic desert spirits existing in the arabian peninsula, where there are no blacks.

>>53661057

Settings inspired by all these things exist. That's not the point; it's that they're rare, or at least far rarer than notEurope ones.

Fragmentation, incidentally, is not a problem, especially given what you just said about Ancient Greece. Ancient Greece was great BECAUSE it's fragmented; diversity and disunity provide room for conflict, and conflict is the source of drama and fun.

I also don't see why primitive is a stopper either, especially in fantasy settings. Most fantasy settings inspired by Europe have relatively limited technology too, with a lot filled in by magic. It doesn't honestly matter if you have swords or spears; at the end of the day, the tech level is (for the purpose of any actual game) not that different.

There's a shit-ton of potential here that largely goes untapped.

Me, personally, I'd love to see more stuff done with Native American myth, but you'd need a shit-ton of respectfulness to do that properly.

>>53661689
By fragmented, I'm talking about the myths themselves. You only treat 'native american mythology' as a single topic because all of the various tribal mythologies are at least partially lost, and very little remains. So you ignorantly stitch together some blighted abomination of a chimera from the myths of people who often never met each other.

>>53661722
It's a shame, the Americas had nations as diverse and disparate as Europe, they had the biggest plague in history right before white people came, imagine invaders colonizing you country after 9 out of 10 people died from a horrible flu epidemic...

>>53661417
I believe he's combining one of the stories Scheherazade tells with the framing device
>>53661490
absolutely retarded
>>53661722
>this entire post
>implying every piece of fantasy media doesn't do this

>>53661689
Few settled towns would mean no real attachment to place, and adventuring would be limited since there are no towns to stop by, only competing tribes living in temporary shelter. Very different game there. Not a problem for Native Americans, but in most of Africa? Pretty much, the only places that were settled were either Christian or Islamic.

>>53661810
A campaign set in Africa or tribal America would be bad for adventuring like you're in medieval Europe

no
shit
sherlock

you got any other nuggets of brilliance? Like maybe that DnD is bad for doing political campaigns?

>>53661935
Mmkay, then what kind of adventuring do you suggest?

And plenty of native americans had settled towns, so you could have a more traditional campaign there.

>>53661722

I treat it as a single topic because the people are geographically related, which is why I say "Native American" instead of Ojibwe, Algonquin, Iroquois, etc.

We can't adapt American mythology any more flawlessly or directly than we can, say, adapt Greek or Norse or whatever, but we can try.

>>53661810

This isn't really as much of a problem as you think. Even discarding for a moment that some peoples were settled, it's honestly not necessary to have them be. Wandering heroes encounter a given tribe, settle with them for a time during the season, and then move on when their business is done.

Plus, wandering is way more forgiving of monsters than settled towns, because if a monster is haunting a given place... Just friggin' avoid it. It might not be ideal, so you still need heroes to slay it, but it means a single monster won't wipe out an entire group.

It also means that wandering peoples exist over a broader geographic area, and thus are more likely to encounter monsters too.

>>53661966
>local Manitou in the rivers are freaking out an attacking the village, travel upriver to find out what is pissing them off
>A demigod is stealing our cattle. Find a way to track him down, find where he is hiding our cattle and get them back
>A man claims that coyote has given him an enchanted bow that never misses. He says he will start hunting our villagers if we do not provide him with daily gifts. Find a way to stop him
>The man in the mountain has stopped speaking with our chief, many of the villagers say it's the influence of the white man. Please find a way to get the man in the mountain to speak again
>Villagers are being killed by a wild animal in the night. The witch doctor suspects it's a shapechanger. Find a way to catch this night killer. If it is a shapechanger, track down who gave him those powers and kill them

>>53661810
That's a flat out lie. Many African Empires had cities, anon.

>>53662157
>Many African Empires
inb4 you say Egypt, so I can laugh at you.

Anyway, you're gonna say something like Aksum or Mali, if you have any sense at all. Well alright. I accounted for that. Aksum was a Christian empire, and Mali was a Muslim one. As I said, only Christian and Islamic empires in sub-Saharan Africa were the settled ones.

>>53662100
I like how all your suggestions are for Native Americans. Who I noted DID have settled peoples, and thus the problem I noted does not apply to them.

>>53662198
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_Kingdom

go fuck yourself man.

File: 1200px-Zimbabwe_Bird.svg.png (135KB, 1200x1697px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1200x1697px

>>53662198
Nah m8

>>53656568
I mean, it's not like christians have done equally idiotic things recently, is it? Like say, burning heavy metal albums...

>>53662288
Or preventing their kids from playing boardgames for fear of witchcraft and devil tricks

>>53656557
After SoT everything became edgy as fuck. Still enjoyable. The franchise is dead.

>>53660866
the whole eufrates and tigris bunch of civilizations are the most interesting on earth

>>53656434
>Prayed to Allah all game
>Realised nly later that my faith was misplaced and I should have been praying to the dice gods instead
God I love and hate this game at the same time. sometimes the dice just fuck you up. Make a sensible decision? Get crippled. Make a retarded decision? Fuckin showered in praise, get huge rewards and snowball to victory.

>>53662238
>>53662266
>Oyo
>First started making settlements in the 14th century after being influenced heavily by neighboring Islamic tribes.
Really poor example, technically it is an example though.
>Zulu Kingdom
Not sure if I'd count them, their prime structure seemed to just be cattle inclosure huts where later troops were housed while the people were semi-Nomadic. Also, a founding date in the 1800's is hilarious.
>>53662266
>Kingdom of Zimbabwe
This is a much better example, since they made permanent stonework settlements without having directly been under the influence of an Islamic or Christian empire in their history, and in which they lived permanently. Still a pretty late founding, but good job anon, you provided what's probably the only really good example of a non-Abrahmic African settled people.

>>53662228
>native americans possessing cattle
>native americans having witch doctors
I don't see why you bother arguing when you can't even read

>>53662575
My mistake on the cattle anon, but the difference between a witch doctor and a medicine man/woman is entirely in the name.

>>53659099
There were arabs before Islam, and there are arab countries today that do not support it. Turkey had to be completely overhauled politically for them to lift their bans on islamic motiffs and teachings from school and public buildings.

The real problem is that peacefully or otherwise, Islam is a blob that seeks to consume everything into it.

>>53661810
Actually, a nomadic tribe setting makes it even more interesting to have a party member capable of tracking or one that is geographically knowledgeable because you'd have to rejoin the tribe after it has moved or attempt to intercept them if they told you where they were headed. Really, I don't see the problem.

>>53659261
Shut up fag, you don't know how to read.
Autistic and retarded. Your parents must be proud.

>>53662675
>Turkey
Did everything you know about Turkey come from a textbook? Recent developments show Turkey is backsliding towards Islamism and autocracy, hard.

And the only Arab nation I can think of that doesn't support Islam outright these days is Lebanon.

>>53659099
How many medieval fantasy settings exist that have no mention of Christianity?

>>53659850
>because we don't focus on it.
You may not, but a lot of people do, and the difference is when we shine the spotlight on how barbaric and malignant feudal lords or puritan settlers could be, people don't get offended and start posting your info on tumblr so that you get doxxed. Much less blow up the LGS.

Kinda want to make some flying djinn cities for a future game.
I was thinking of having the players trying to get MacGuffins from various sky sultans/viziers/title who ask them for various stuff to please them:
> Fighting as gladiators in an entertaining manner (got to be flashy!)
> artefacts exchange
> Maybe go full thousand and one nights and ask them to bring entertaining stories (probably between sessions), not sure how to pull it out
> Learn a vizier something new despite him having the power to ear everything the winds carry (they would have got an underground adventure before)

If they want to go by force, I may have one vizir remind them they are high in the sky and the ground they walk on is made of a magic they control (some of the player can actually get away with that, but I kinda want to do a free fall scene)

>>53660947
> /pol/ bogeyman
I feel like \pol\acks pluck this one out the same way fufags would pluck out fursecution when thy ran out of reasons they were relevant to the thread.

>>53662804
Without Christianity, but with all the same social mores and practices from it still intact, more or less.

>Muh /pol/ whining
When everyone is /pol/ no one will be.

>>53656285
bring back al-qadim

>>53662842
Cite 1 LGS that's been blown up or shot at.

>>53662933
You think modern Wizards could handle it? It's a 50/50 between having a guilt and virtue-signaling fueled stroke, or else prettying the setting up to be the most pro-middle eastern propaganda they can manage despite it being a fictional setting.

File: 48cc255cf9f1b37f5deec0e5266560b1.jpg (711KB, 1152x864px) Image search: [Google]

711KB, 1152x864px

>>53662849

File: Academy.jpg (1MB, 5000x2813px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 5000x2813px

>>53662973

>>53662932
That's because no-one would say "I'm not murdering them" instead of "[Insert here] Lynch/Crusade/Genocide now!1!1!"

>>53663005
HOMM IV >>> All.

File: 03.jpg (133KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 960x720px

>>53663005

>>53660871
Mexico didn't have a renaissance or medieval eras. Our victorian era was indistinguishable from California, all wild west all the time with 90% more tequila. What we have for culture is a lot of indigenous mythology and guns.

Ren faires are more popular in Mexico than mesoamerican festivities.

There's just so much fun you can squish out of stone-iron age societies like native americans, sub-saharan africans, abbos and pacific islanders. And post-car societies might as well be the same shit as contemporary urban fantasy with worse oil/km ratios and less precise weapons. Medieval europe is so fucking popular because it's different enough from modern times to be amazing, lasted long enough to be deep and abridgeable to the specific timeframe you want your setting to be at, and well documented enough for autists to enjoy studying it.

File: Religion of Reese's.jpg (221KB, 852x805px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 852x805px

>>53657370

>>53660954
Proto-Islamic arabs started the african slave trade because they would rather throw blacks into the sea than convert and have to live with them.

>>53661490

No, djinn were desert spirits which were creepy as fuck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Objective

Here, have a movie based closely off of djinn legends. It's about soldiers in afghanistan running into one.

>>53663107
>Unknown
Why is it still "Unknown"?

>>53656176
Because no point on the political spectrum wants it right now. The left hates it because it's based on regional stereotypes and the right hates it because it's Arabian. Very few people are neither aversive racists or just regular racists.

>>53663209
>>53663107
> Unknown
Agnostic is the most violent religion!
In the name of Whoever Ifany!

>>53662736
>Recent developments show Turkey is backsliding towards Islamism and autocracy, hard.
>>53662675
>Turkey had to be completely overhauled politically for them to lift their bans on islamic motiffs and teachings from school and public buildings.
As we can see, the real problem is that emotional know-it-all retards can't read.

>>53662941
I'd rather it not happen and if all I have to do is ignore a backwards religion that hates everything while pretending to be about love and peace. That's perfectly fine.

I get all my sand, mirages and weird creatures from Greece and Macedonia. I get all my geometrical architechture, horse worship and sabres from slavic cultures and Mongolia.
I get all my harem shit from animus. And every other superficial similarity is covered by India.

>>53663261
Are you actually trying to claim that Turkey hasn't been sliding back into Islamic autocracy during the reign of Erdogan?

File: Nicolae_Tonitza_-_Rachiş_Ali,_Balcic_1936.jpg (111KB, 659x582px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 659x582px

>>53663085

>There's just so much fun you can squish out of stone-iron age societies like native americans, sub-saharan africans, abbos and pacific islanders. And post-car societies might as well be the same shit as contemporary urban fantasy with worse oil/km ratios and less precise weapons. Medieval europe is so fucking popular because it's different enough from modern times to be amazing, lasted long enough to be deep and abridgeable to the specific timeframe you want your setting to be at, and well documented enough for autists to enjoy studying it.

That's fair. I enjoy my own people's history, but what you say is true. Our ethnographic culture has not changed at all, really, since before roman times. There are greek and roman documents documenting our lives, along with the transcripts of traders along the silk road. Literally the only things that changed is whomever thinks they "rule", the addition of motor vehicles, and the addition of guns.

Telling different cultural periods apart comes down to carbon dating and metalurgical tech found. Well, that, and the eventual psuedo adoption of buddhism and islam, sometimes christianity. Although neither is really truly buddhism, christianity, nor islam.

Not much changes on the vast eurasian steppes.

>>53663107
So cultural marxists and Sunni mudslimes are the enemies of mankind.
Not surprised.

>>53663085
To be fair, most Mexicans have more Spanish than Amerindian. Not a lot more, but more. So hey, ren fairs are as valid for them as they are Americans.

>>53663361
Nigger I literally said they were.
Get the fuck out until you learn to read.

>>53663418
>not realising political is code for white nationalism

>>53663475
It's not. That number is mostly for Anarchists and Communists.

>>53657366
You like those numbers? You like the math that built your house and you computer? Guess where the fuck all those came from.

>>53663418
Who'd have thought, amirite? But yeah, Shia are pretty fine, if only because basically their entire history has been getting shit on by the Sunnis in the same way that Sunnis are now starting to shit on the rest of us.

>>53663475
>literally one of the categories is "White Nationalists"
>IT'S THE KKK, NOT ANTIFA, I SWEAR!

>>53661338
The things I'd do just to crack open a fresh Arabian Night's box in this day and age.

>>53663395
Didn't you guys get massively interbred with by Mongols at some point? That's why a lot of your people look like Eurasian mixes and not straight up Indo-European despite the region being the birthplace of all Indo-European peoples.

Assuming you're a Central Asian, anyway.

>>53663519
>Numbers
Called Arabic, originated in India and were simply transferred down through Persians. Also, not mythology.
>Math
Greek. Also, not mythology.

>>53663670
>Math
>Greek

Greeks just got their shit from the Egyptians Minoans, who got theirs from earlier Mesopotamians. Also the Arabs weren't just sitting on what they took from the Greeks from the fall of the Western Roman Empire up till the Renaissance, they were actively improving upon it and adding new formulae and theorems just like the Greeks had been doing to the stuff they inherited from older civilizations.

Because that's how the advancement of science and math have always worked, shoulders of giants and all that

>>53663760
Cute joke.

>>53663615

We're a wide spread of looks and cause a great amount of confusion for people here a lot of times.

And yes, there was a lot of intermarriage with mongols for about 300 years or so. I occasionally get asked where I'm from, but that's about it. I get more comments on my hair.

>>53663775

Kill yourself.

>>53663883
Kind of a shame that the homeland for Indo-Europeans has been taken away from them by the Mongols.

>>53656396
>People in the middle east have bigger things to worry about than dumb games
I wonder if that applies to French cartoons too. Guess not.

>>53663883
>My hair
What, are you some asiany-looking guy with blonde hair?

>>53657086
>the internet is srs bsns guys!
>why are you all laughing!?
>i said it's srs bsns!

>>53663896

It wasn't "taken away". It was never yours to begin with. There has always been a large degree of cultural similarities between the various groups on the grasslands.

File: 1352630846031.jpg (77KB, 959x721px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 959x721px

>>53664039
>It was never yours to begin with
Senpai are you serious? I told you earlier that it was the homeland of all Indo-European peoples. Everyone from Iran to central and northern India to Asia Minor to all of Europe? All of them originated from steppe nomads living in Central Asia, near modern Uzbekistan if I remember right. That's the origin of horse domestication and why just about every native religion for these people originally had a lot of horse veneration, though it faded away in some.

So yes, it DID belong to them at one point.

>>53663085

>Medieval europe is so fucking popular because it's different enough from modern times to be amazing, lasted long enough to be deep and abridgeable to the specific timeframe you want your setting to be at, and well documented enough for autists to enjoy studying it.

The thing is, I'm not gonna disagree on you about any of that. Medieval fantasy IS fun. There's so much cool shit to draw upon from Europe's history, and it's familiar enough to everyone that you can kinda drop people into it and they'll have at least a general sense of what to expect; even if you include stuff they've never heard before, like deep medieval politics.

Thing is, there's a ton of info on other historical cultures out there. It just... Isn't as baked into the zeitgeist as much as European stuff is. Most people who are doing medieval fantasy settings aren't reading up on the real customs of 13th century Brittany; they're going off whatever feelings they get through pop culture and maybe some ancillary research online.

The lack of making settings that draw on the cultures of other parts of the world makes it harder to have other things that draw on those same cultures.

File: 1443267727214.jpg (31KB, 599x373px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 599x373px

>>53664105

>"homeland of the white peoples"
>"the mongols stole it"
>archeological records show lots of "mixing"
>thinks everyone lived in a bubble on the steppes
>probably would call us subhuman

No. Take your white nationalist bullshit elsewhere. White people aren't a thing and never were.

>>53664197
>White peoples
I'm using the term Indo-European for a reason, anon. Partially to discredit any attempt on your part to whine about whites or whatever, but mainly because I am also talking about Indians and Iranians who nobody at all ever called white. So with that in mind, I have no idea where this tirade against white people is coming from. Did I tap into some kind of insecurity or prejudice on your part?

And yes, there was mixing. That's where the 'stolen' part comes in. The people there are no longer mainly Indo-European like they were originally.

>>53664239

Sorry, this is new /tg/, I assumed.

Archeological evidence says it's been going on basically forever in human terms, however. It was never "stolen", and people way back when would probably find your line of thinking odd. "But they aren't of XYZ clan and we're on good terms with them. So?"

>>53664105

I thought the evidence painted more towards the Ukraine? I know that's fairly close, geographically, but it'd explain the back-passing of horse domestication reaching Egypt and Mesopotamia so quickly.

File: Britsh_telescopes.jpg (138KB, 531x783px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 531x783px

>>53663085
I don't agree.
What makes Medieval Fantasy so popular, its that its a blender of the worst Victorian history retellings.
Combined with blending in the last bits of how pre modern England worked, before infrastructure changed that forever.

Victorians had no appreciation for different cultures, and it shows in how bestial they are when retelling stuff. Even their painted stuff on Greek myths.

>>53664294
Basically forever is pretty relative. I looked it up myself, it's been going on at a light level for only 2000 years or so, and only at a major level with the Mongol invasions. Meanwhile, the migrations that created the populations I spoke of earlier began to happen a few thousand years before that. So like I said, it's relative, and it wasn't happening at the point Indo-Europeans came into being and spread from Central Asia.

There is evidence of this in the way that almost nobody in Europe has Asian contribution to their genetics. Where Asian genetics are present, they're pretty much entirely from Mongols or some Ugyurs that managed to get up into the north at some point. But not anywhere before relatively recently.

>>53664355
I've seen a lot of studies recently for the origin of horse domestication and settled civilization being somewhere around that area, which might or might not be conclusive in changing the narrative of the discovery of those, but I have never seen a study that pointed to the genetic origin itself of Indo-Europeans being in Ukraine. Always somewhere in Central Asia. Maybe that will change, maybe not.

>>53663529
Shia are the better of the two. The Sunni's kind of have their heads up their asses.

>>53664361
Fine by me, because actual Medieval life was devoid of joy or adventure or basically anything positive or high spirited.

>>53660311

>Anglo-Saxon
>not medieval

What the actual *fuck*.

Are you... are you being serious here? The vast majority of medieval fantasy is a cobbled together mess of Anglo-Saxon, Norman, and some French paint and German trim.

>>53664579
>what people think of
Hi, I'm the portion of text you ignored.

>>53656176
It saddens me he never got his donkey back. He could've had thick carpets.
Also it's kinda weird that in Forgotten Sands he can wear armor but can still do parkour. Maybe his acrobatics are diminished once he picks up a shield or something.
And what was up with his gauntlet? It's implied it was a relic he looted from an ancient tomb
>>53656530
Wish well spent

>>53664724
We'll never know because the game didn't reach Ubi's unrealistic sales expectations so no sequels ever.

>>53664751
I guess it's for the best anyway.
Speaking of Ubi, they wanna do The Division movie with Jake Gyllenhaal again. They haven't even done their other 3 movies.
They must really like Jake. Or maybe it's because he managed to deflower Taylor Swift before her 18th or something.

>>53658269
I love this post

>>53656248
But to be honest the have a point - general public does have a strong disposition against muslims (despite what liberals try to tell us), and it affects our view of anything muslim-related, even their fairy tales.

>>53663914
Not him but a non-insignificant ammount of eurasians have red hair and green eyes without having european ancestry thanks to grand daddy Ghengis.

>>53657556
He wasn't proven wrong. Your reasoning is just retarded with an obvious double standard that he pointed out.

>>53664196
The problem is muslims are still cutting heads, africans are still raping babies and mexicans are still eating human hearts.
Not all of them, not even a significant portion of them and definately not anyone in the big cities. But enough for those city people and anyone else aware, to be fucking uncomfortable with it.

Why aren't there more prohibition era americana and wild-west settings? America didn't have a medieval age or a renaissance. But you still gravitate towards those settings because they're both familiar enough for interest and distinct enough for comfort. You can end the game and not have the lingering knowledge that there are still redneck serial killer families who feed whomever finds their moonshine operation to their pigs living in the same country.

>>53664361
Victorians were to India what weaboos are to Japan.
If they had as much influence as you think we'd be heads over heels for any setting that smells anywhere close to India.

>>53665230
Victorians were also pretty Chinaboo.

>>53656434
>still probably the greatest storytelling board game ever made.
No. But it is the greatest "stuff happens to you and you don't have a say the matter" game ever simply by virtue of there being so much stuff that can happen to you.

>>53665230
You would think that, but thats not really true.
Because you forget that what is called The Victorian Period, is almost 70 years.
So by 1840s, maybe the Indians was exotic. But by 1880s? It was just another place viewed as subhuman export, with no real wonders since the Victorians hated lifes wonders. This is also shown in how as time and commodity prices collapses, outside of Tea and spices, exotic patterns on textile and wallpapers didn't really exist.
Remember: When Doyle(Sherlock Homes) writes stuff, its sorta what he gets when he asks around his peers and older generations, and his childhood books. Even then, his stuff turns into this super miserable massive superslum, and he keeps on doing that.

Victorians are basically monsters, and the Eternal Anglo has retained some of the worst traits. They basically can't like stuff, unless it chokes them to death.

>>53665436
>Life's Wonders
We're talking about India, not cocaine.

>>53660506
Trust me, they think you're just as shitty as the muslims do.

File: 1496319322446.png (47KB, 522x472px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 522x472px

>>53662320
> After SoT everything became edgy as fuck
Forgotten Sands Wii was pretty gud, though, without being edgy at all.

File: The_British_Spider_Empire.jpg (118KB, 382x540px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 382x540px

>>53665453
India had plenty of wonders before everybody involved turned it into a shithole, with some remains of cool architecture.

>>53665670
India had been a shithole since they lost plumbing technology, so longer than the British were there.

>>53665159
Because those settings involve guns.

>>53665684
Any feudal state is partially going to be a shithole anon. That doesn't mean you need to keep it a shithole while it transitions into the next stage of civilization.
Then again, this is the same Anglos that wanted Africa to be a tribal hellhole, mostly to romanticize expeditions against The SAVAGES.

File: 1475712521068.jpg (16KB, 226x199px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 226x199px

>>53665610
Who the fuck flicks with their middle finger.

>>53665777
>Wanted
Less wanted and more dealing with that reality.

File: IMG_1299.jpg (39KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 320x320px

>>53656396
>Being this assmad about an anonymous 4chan shitpost
Dude, it's a joke. This entire website is a joke. That's the point.

>>53665800
>Ruins everywhere
>Cool tribes everywhere
>Cool feudal states everywhere
>Several Empires
>Trade
"Nah, muh SAVAGES"

>>53665831
We've already been over this. 'Empires' and 'feudal states' were in very short supply, and 'cool' is relative.

>>53665159

People were cutting off heads, raping babies, and... Well, not eating human hearts. Not usually, at least. Maybe to get rid of vampires. But the point is, all that shit happened in real Europe, and happens still in fantasy notEurope.

I don't think people are uncomfortable with violence because it's too similar to real violence. Otherwise, Call of Duty's games set in the Middle East would not be best sellers. No, I think a big chunk of the problem may be that people are afraid of accusations of getting the culture wrong or stereotyping the people of the region, and I think those are fair concerns given how many people who HAVE attempted the project have actually gotten the culture wrong and managed to stereotype the people of the region.

Ah well.

>>53665903
Anon's point is that those are not common cultural practices in Europe.

>>53664607

No, what people think of when they talk about medieval society IS medieval fantasy. Most people don't know fuckall about the actual medieval period. Chivalry n castles n witch hunts, right? That's medieval.

Also, not to be a dick or anything, but the Anglo-Saxons were literally half of the medieval period in England.

>>53665999
And most fantasy has very little to do with Anglo-Saxon england in tone. It's all much more like medieval France.

YOU ARE ON A QUEST!!!!!
You have arrived at a fork in the road.
To the left, is the way to Arabesque, a mysterious land, presumably containing genies and flying carpets, but perhaps also some level of religious intolerance.
To the right is Debatia, where people argue all day long about minutia. It's also quite interesting, though probably the same level of religious intolerance.
Behind you is a small farming village with a surprisingly decent tavern - the barkeep actually makes a pretty good mojito, impressive in this otherwise bog-standard fantasy world.
Which way do you travel, adventurer?

>>53666068
>It's all much more like medieval France.
Without city states, trading, frontier expansion.
The only point you really get, is that there is some cool foreign invasions.

>>53665903
It's easier to distantiate from it because IT HAPPENED IN THE PAST and their modern societies DON"T engage in those atrocities right the fuck now.

>>53666268

Chivalric knights is a very French thing, but yeah, you're basically right. >>53666068 is kind of an idiot.

>>53666100
Down. Let's rob, rape, murder and probably eat completely fictional non-historical-based denizens of the Underdark in the name of some other completely fictional Underdarc civilization.

>>53666268
>Without city states
Off the top of my head, Faerun has several.
>Trading
What fucking setting are you looking at that doesn't have trade? Just because it's not the game's focus doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>>53665999
And modern England has nothing in common with Anglo-Saxon culture and draws more from Norman culture.

>>53666268
>frontier expansion
>France
Wait, what?

>>53666336
WONDERFUL!!!
Finding a nearby access hatch, you make your way into the strange yet wondrous tunnels of the famed Underdank! You wander through these halls for less then an hour before you come across a caravan of Frog-folk, transporting a wagon of goods. They are armed with their traditional poison-tipped spears, and dressed in bright orange and red. They appear friendly, for now.
What do you do?

>>53666435
Gather the group and roll the lore check to find out what do our characters know about theese fellas.

>>53666490
They are known to be a raider culture - Dwarves, in particular, are plagued by certain tribes of them. They're led by kings, who chosen from among the best warriors, but also put great stock in their shamans. Some tribes are friendly to surface-dwellers, but others are known to eat the flesh of men and elves.
Nobody has enough lore to recognize any tribal markings, however.

>>53660866
>Ottomans
>Anything but Thieving shits
Leave Byzantium alone

Check this.

>>53661325
So what you are saying os that the world can come together in peace over our mutual hatred of the blacks?
Peace, love and motherfucking harmony await all of humanity!

>>53666374
Fronter Expansion was something that happened everywhere, until the early 1900s.
You don't simply settle land without effort, it doesn't settle itself
As a modernite, you underestimate how much work there is to setup a wood chopping camp inlands, clear a valley, start agriculture somewhere, and clear paths needed for roads. Or even clearing riverbeds enough, to use them for timber moving.

>In Central Europe, wolves were dramatically reduced in number during the early nineteenth century, due to organized hunts and reductions in ungulate populations. In Bavaria, the last wolf was killed in 1847, and had disappeared from the Rhine regions by 1899[20] and largely disappeared in Switzerland before the end of the nineteenth century. In 1934, Nazi Germany became the first state in modern history to place the wolf under protection, though the species was already extirpated in Germany at this point.
>In Eastern Europe, wolves were never fully exterminated, due to the area's contiguity with Asia and its large forested areas. However, Eastern European wolf populations were reduced to very low numbers by the late nineteenth century. Wolves were extirpated in Upper Hungary during the first decade of the twentieth century and, by the mid-twentieth century, could be found only in a few forested areas in eastern Poland.
>The grey wolf was exterminated in Denmark in 1772
And thats just wolves. There is tons of other predators that is dangerous if you try to expand into their area.

>>53659761
>>2 hours later everyone else has been turned into a woman or a dog

This sounds like an unreasonably hilarious game.

>>53659850
>>53659754
>I'm pretty sure my players can handle the fact that they can't play a woman in a setting where women have restricted rights

Noblewomen enjoyed class rights, Anon, and everybody enjoyed their ethnicity's customs&laws on top of that. Between that and the fact that nobody would want to travel alone anyway, it's reasonably easy to make a woman character who's out and about. Arabs are just one of many ethnicities.

>>53661057
>There's no good reason for no ancient greek RPGs though.

Agon exists. There's also a space opera setting based on greek myths. Features tiny humanaboo hivemind alien ants who live to imitate greek warriors.

>>53662288
>>53662310
Wasps are not humans, Anon. It's right in the name.

>>53667121
>tiny humanaboo hivemind alien ants who live to imitate greek warriors
When Myrmidons are taken too literally

>>53659761
>Go on treasure hunt to faraway lands
>Become imprisoned for years halfway to my destination
>Eventually manage to escape
>Get there
>There's no treasure
>Be told my dad hid a whole bunch of treasures behind the couch at home
>Have to travel all the way back
>Dad only hid crappy treasures
fml

>>53665159
>and wild-west settings?

Because that's just Bigfoots minding the cattle until white people can finally start making Hollywood movies and traumatized civil war vets on killing sprees.

>>53656422
>Arabian Nights settings = modern middle east
Are you retarded?

>>53656176
It isn't though. It's like one of the larger fantasy worlds. It's very common to have a desert/Arabian nights inspired city/country somewhere on your expanded fantasy land map. It's just most people want to do a not!Europe or a modern setting.

>>53660871
>I sympathize, but that is kind of funny.

That's pretty much how it goes for every culture that the players are unfamiliar with though. You can set a game in pseudo-Japan, but you better deliver on the ninjas and samurais because that's the only thing laypeople know about it. God help you if you want to set a game in Africa, because it's going to have to be the most racist thing ever or people won't understand what's going on.

>>53660954
Also this is why we don't see more foreign settings. I'll be honest most people off the internet (and practically everyone making/writing campaigns and flavortext for pretty much every system) who are into tabletop RPGs drink the racist/sexist kool-aid. This deters them from doing campaigns in not!Europe setting without intensive research and double checking and avoiding of stereotypes. None of these people are bothered by these things in not!Europe so not!Europe becomes the dominant setting.

>>53664239
>Iranians who nobody at all ever called white

Veteran shitposter from /int/ here, you're wrong.

File: 1496117394019.jpg (39KB, 507x553px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 507x553px

>>53656396
No, he is correct. The middle east is a sensitive subject in fiction and it has been for years, not merely for fear of le scary dune coons wanting to behead you but also because even thinking about the ME makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Look at how fucking hard it is to make a movie about the Middle East that doesn't involve shooting people and struggling with PTSD or a woman trying to survive the return to Afghanistan or some artsy shit like that. The OP is literally pointing out that the setting is underrated--this is an entirely rational explanation for why. It'd be like running a game about running over werewolves with a truck in France right now. Everyone would feel uncomfortable.

You cannot simply gesture to the door any time someone makes an observation that MIGHT be construed as /pol/, believe me asshole if your threshhold for /pol/ack thought is that people might be a wee bit anxious about the huge grinding bloodbath going on over there, you'd better never go outside or you'll end up between /po/ and /qst/.

>>53656176
Are you retarded or do you not understand the power of memes and cultural works? Here I'll make it simple and spell it all out for you.

Geek culture (I hate using that term but it is appropriate here) has been defined by three settings. The first setting to really define it was this fantasy Europe because of Lord of the Rings. This book had an immense cultural and pop cultural impact in the west. Much more than any Arabian Nights setting based works. The next defining setting was fantasy space because of Star Trek and Star Wars (there were plenty of space settings before these two works but both of them firmly put them at the forefront of culture). Finally the next defining setting was modern day with mystical twists. This is inspired from multiple books and many modern stories (Harry Potter is a good example).

These three settings are what dominate. The next two most common settings are based off of similar cultural works. Superpower settings based off of comics and not!Japan based off of anime.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is that you see no Arabian Nights settings because there has not been an influential (at least in Geek Culture) Arabian Nights based work. Once there is you'll see them everywhere. This is also why you see very few Greek/Roman based settings. While both are wildly influential you rarely see them as a setting because there hasn't been influential work based on their setting in quite a while.

If your players approach you with plans to summon a genie and ask for their wish, with the possibility to hop a carpet and fly to another Arabian night, you have NO right to refuse them. Now, I know what you're going to say:

>B-b-b-but muh medieval europe
>B-b-b-but muh anglo-saxons
>B-b-b-but mommy, arabs make me scared

Shut up. You shouldn't be DMing. Your players are trying to make something interesting out of your generic, rational setting, and you're throwing it back in their faces. You have NO right to be DMing - just give your notes to one of your players, they can do a better job than you can.

TL/DR, if you can't handle Arabian Nights in a modern setting, you shouldn't be a DM.

File: botswana-metal-heads-big-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg (153KB, 980x552px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 980x552px

>>53667446
>but you better deliver on the ninjas and samurais because that's the only thing laypeople know about it.

>playing Japan
>not wanting to play a cross-dressing bandit with a sling teaming up with a sailor, salt-cooker and supplier of the Imperial kitchen who smacks people with an oar

>Africa
>not using Golden Sky Stories to play Botswanan metal heads teaming up with ghosts and spirits to right societal wrongs

People hate fun, yes.

>>53668184
i dont know you but you rock

File: wadjda-1.jpg (66KB, 900x419px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 900x419px

>>53667582

Not really. Go watch Wadjda! It's a Saudi film about a girl in Saudi Arabia. She's rebellious as fuck. It's a really cute film! It involves NONE of those things.

It isn't hard to make a movie about the Middle East that doesn't involve shooting people, struggling with PTSD, or a woman trying to survive a return to Afghanistan.

>inb4 Wadjda counts as an "artsy" film

Also, if you are curious, it was filmed on 35mm film! When I first saw it, it was in one of the few theatres in the area that still had a film projector because it hadn't been digitally transferred as of that moment!

The film heavily involves islam, and a reoccuring theme is about how the people who are most ardent and fundamental about the faith are the ones who are the most sinful and wrong.

>>53656286
No there really, really isn't. Like think for two seconds, what would actually happen if you had to tell any person of middle eastern descent - that you might actually encounter in your life, not some brainwashed ISIS mfer who makes up .002% of the demographic breakdown - what your DnD game is about.

Do you think they'd even give that much of a fuck? Worst comes to worst, they'd ride you for being 'culturally appropriative', and people do that shit nowhere but in America. A funny look is what you'd get, for talking to some stranger about your DnD game.

It's not about you being /pol/ or racist, it's about you taking your head out of your ass and actually paying attention to the world around you, not the world you read about in the news or on the internet.

5/10 because I responded, trolling works largely because people don't have critical thinking skills anymore.

>>53657337
>One of the musical tracks in LittleBigPlanet originally contained two lines from the Qur'an, and it resulted in a worldwide recall.

Yes, by Sony's own decision, not based on any complaints.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/quran-references-force-worldwide-littlebigplanet-recall

>>53656176
Largely because most Western storytellers are unfamiliar with them and thus don't write them and because in the Middle-East itself the fiction market isn't really as diverse or as booming that's to near-ubiquitous but always wildly varying censorship laws.

File: Saladin.jpg (51KB, 484x720px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 484x720px

>>53669480

>Do you think they'd even give that much of a fuck?

Actually, they'd may shoot ideas at you, or ask more. They're friendly enough. My sister had a muslim friend who was a fucking nerd. I had a few muslim friends in school who were fucking nerds. Played videogames with us, RPGs, etc. We used to give them shit during ramadan by tempting them with food. That's the best part of having a muslim friend. Just don't just tempt them, though, feed them as an apology later, because otherwise you are just being an asshole and not a friend.

Also, those ISIS motherfuckers are always recent misguided converts and or have extreme levels of autism, often coming in from other radical groups, such as neo nazis becoming frustrated with their group being posers and switching sides because they perceive the other side as actually taking action. I'm not a cryptomuslim, I swear.

>>53663107
What does this prove other than nations with large demographics tend to be politically and defensively unstable?

>>53656176
People actually learned about muslims and are starting to hate the culture.

Thats pretty much what it is.

Arabian Nights is mostly based on a thousand and one nights, which is fairytales from the middle east not about the middle east but about india and further east asia aswell as on Orientalism.

And Orientalism sure does go out of favor when you are beeing confronted with muslims who are by all accounts behaving like complete subhumans.

Basically the middle east ruined romanticism about the middle east.

>>53669929
To add to that, a lot of the sex appeal is lost when you know that instead of bellydancing harem girls, you get black trashcans cosplaying as ghosts.

>>53669274
>Wadjda counts as an "artsy" film
Is this something burgers actually believe?

>>53669986
>not made by Hollywood for the US market = Artsy independant movie

Basically. Same goes for comics.

File: nc0zjjk16k1xjfvmwhcc.jpg (49KB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 800x450px

>>53659324
>it's not like the entire Western world hasn't had to live with nearly constant terrorist activity perpetrated by Muslim groups and Muslim lone-actors for over a decade
I don't have anything to add to this thread but I was thinking yesterday how it's awesome that we have a real-life Cobra now.

File: 135.jpg (313KB, 822x497px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 822x497px

>>53665928
>Anon's point is that those are not common cultural practices in Europe.
Prior to the Soviet Union's expansion into the Middle East, they weren't terribly common there either, were they?

>>53663107
>Date range: 2001-2010

>>53667446
Well anon, samurai were one of the few people who had any sort of freedom of movement and with enough status not to be immediately dismissed. In fact, some sort of samurai is one of the very few things your players CAN be while making sense. Wandering monks/exorcists/priests and ninjas are two of the others. Random villager isn't going to be traveling about unless he belongs to someone else in the party.

>>53669274
Saudi movie made for a saudi audience. Anon is obviously talking about the western audience.

File: truck of peace.jpg (54KB, 1024x592px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 1024x592px

>>53670102
>CRASHING THROUGH THE CROWD
>COMES A FEARFUL SOUND
>DURKA
>DURKAAAAAAAA
>DURKA
>DURKAAAAAAAA

>>53656434
>friend returned to Baghdad, giving everyone a final turn
>the turn before I had mastered Faith
>on the last turn I swoop into Baghdad and complete a scene where I uses my Faith for a huge prize
>we tie in destiny/story, but I have one more skill and win

Third player got genderswaped and married pretty early, so she was fucked.

>>53667919
>Implying the DM is the problem
>Not the players whining when the Agrabah guard cuts the rogue's hand, kill the ranger's dog and throw the female paladin into the sultan's harem.
Fucking faggots couldn't even take Disney middle-east, they would have been brought to tears by anything approached the non-abridged Arabian Nights.

>>53670140
>Blaming the Soviets when it's the US that's been funding all those terrorist groups who ended up taking over the region.
Or else interfering with their democracy to the point where they don't care as long as they can kick the Americans out ala Iran.

>>53670832
>Third player got genderswaped and married pretty early, so she was fucked.

I'm beginning to think this was someone's fetish.

I don't know about you fucks but my favorite setting is mystical-as-fuck ancient china.

My favorite character I played in that setting was golden yang, a bun salesman who was a self declared poet and master swordsman.
The buns were made with the lowest grade wild animal meat, and even then he skimped.
He would browbeat NPCs along the path into buying his buns, and actually beat ones who complained about the obviously shoddy bunmanship, as they were the best buns.

God I loved golden yang.

>>53669629
Pretty much all the people on terror watch lists in Europe and especially the UK are second or third generation offspring of immigrants dude.

They're home grown sure but they're not mostly neonazis and bullied red heads.

The neonazis and bullied red heads that do/did join up mostly go to fight with ISIS and similar groups in the middle east against whoever they think us wrong (Assad etc). They don't tend to commit acts of terror.

>>53671782
Upon reading the thread I guess we aren't talking about cool things.
I guess I'll just retract my enthusiasm and leave you guys to talk about your panzy racism or whatever.

>>53663760
HOL UP
*beheads infidel*
SO YOUS BE SAYING
*plows truck through crowd*
WE WUZ
*condemns islamophobia*
MATHMATICIANZ AND SHEIT?

>>53671782
So he was Cut me own throat Dibbler?

>>53672180
In many ways, but from a different racist caricature of a family.

Also, he had many more interactions with hobos.

>>53666998
It really, really is.
>>53670832
Gotta be honest - in my group, we never play for victory, just for lulz.

>>53671888

>they don't commit acts of terror

This is what white nationalists believe.

File: hope.jpg (14KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 480x360px

>>53656203
>all the illiterate idiots responding to this

>>53670790

The movie is lost on western audience because it's all Arabs not being terrorists or complete shit heads. You know. Like they're normal people or something.

>>53672653
I guess that's what makes it a good fantasy movie.

>>53671888
>They don't tend to commit acts of terror.
We got some fake news over here

>>53671888
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017/05/domestic-terrorism-white-nationalist-kills-two-portland/

>>53672777
Ah, cherry picking for the one example you can find. Never mind all the Islamic terrorism this year, pay attention to this one instance.

>>53656176
Turbants arent's as cool as greathelms
Camels aren't as cool as warhorses
Scimitars aren't as cool as zweihanders
Deus vult is better than allahu akbar

>>53672926

This isn't cherry picking. It's just one of the more public ones. There is a reason the FBI followed white nationalist groups like a hawk. Because they often start stuff. A lot.

Need I remind you how often planned parenthood facilities are bombed, arsoned, and shot at? How about the number of attempts.

Typical alt right. Blame others for doing the things you'd do yourselves.

>>53672926
>whites dont do terrorism
>posts terrorism
>muslims do terrorism more
Way to go switching your point as soon you are losing vey.

>>53673039
>This isn't cherry picking
It's blatantly ignoring the terrorism rates as displayed >>53663107 .

>There's a reason FBI
They follow anyone they consider potential terrorists. Sometimes they even instigate acts of terrorism to justify their jobs. And hell, pretty much every terrorist in the west is revealed to have been on an FBI watchlist, they just weren't allowed to interfere because of Obama being an idiot or because they're afraid it'll inspire 'islamophobia'. Same thing has happened repeatedly in police investigations in Europe, in fact.

>>53673042
>Implying I'm the same person
Go suck a kebab.

>>53673093
>dat reply
Woah its like you want us to forget neonazis does terrorism.I get it, only nazis should do the terrorising not muslims. Loud and clear bub

>>53673149
>Strawman while ignoring actual statistics
Noice.

>>53673183
says someone calling frontpage news cherrypicking.So when you gonna shootup a black church or burn a synagogue i heard its all the craze since its not terrorism

>>53673248
Front page news on a progressive news site? Oh my, how impressive. Meanwhile the actual number of acts is miniscule compared to islamic terrorism.

I'm not even white, senpai. That's the cute thing about you mudlovers, you always assume everyone you don't like is white.

>>53673309
>InsuIts
Hahaha okay you got me to actuaIIy think on an image bored boohoo.
You know you can focus on islamic terrorism all you want at the end of the day and bomb thirdworldes for decades and well its not like its gonna stop. As long as Saudi Arabia exist and continued non-middleastern intervention into the muslim world it aint gonna stop but the pathetic part about you cunts is that you just cant admit an security threat even if its killing people hahah. Nuke the middle east, kill all the moslems in the world but the end of the days its not moslems burning synagouges or shooting up american churches and schools. You can hate on moslems all you like and western governments can spend all their money on counterterrorism and maybe it works and suddenly moslem extremism stop attacking western countries and focus on china but its not like terrorism is gonna end in western countries if neonazis still exist.

also what kind of fucking idiot reads only news that you agree with. Fuck i bet you only read them breitbart shit

>>53673309

He says, planning his next planned parenthood and mosque bombings.

Funny thing about that site's numbers. They list all terrorist attacks in Muslim countries as "Islam related" instead of more commonly done political attacks.

>>53673538
Oh anon, I don't support US interference in the middle east either. I think it's part of the reason they've all radicalized. Don't accuse me of supporting my government's behavior just because I think Islam is violent.

And yes, I think Saudi Arabia is a cancer because of the way they fund and spread Wahhabism worldwide.

It's almost like we agree on several points, I just don't have a western guilt complex and blinders when it comes to refugee violence.

>Burning synagogues blah blah
Can't even remember the last time that one happened.

And for the final time, I'm not a nazi either, dear. You don't need to support Hitler and national socialism to think Muslims are violent and incompatible with the west.

>>53673542
>Again assumes I'm white and conservative
Hell, I think more poor people should get abortions.

Also, to ignore that many attacks in Muslim countries themselves are motivated by religion is to ignore the huge internecine conflicts they've always had.

>>53673619
First i never disagreed the IsIamic terrorism doesnt exist i Iive in phillippines who currentIy have terrorist takeover in one city in the south but you came into a fucking thread of someone denying white terrorism doesnt happen so screw you mate.

My most admired leftist theorist of modern time Slavoz Zizek admits there are some clunks in the integration of Moslem values and Western Values and a discussion shouId be made to reconcile it but to assume complete incompatibility is fucking retarded. Populations of moslems living in western countries the best example Interfaith diaIougues or recognition of islam as not the only path to heaven is reminiscent to Vatican 2 council concessions on the recognition of other faiths legitemacy is progress existing one can argue though that yes the vast majority of islam still live Saudi funded ultraconservative mindset but the develoment to western compatability exists thus is wrong to deny such existance. The very fact of how decentralised islam is contributes how permanent this development can be

TLDR Nazis are terrorist, Islamic extremists are terrorist as well. Islam has terrorist but arent all suicide bombers

>refugees, western guilt
Complete another debate

>>53673925
I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't deny it happened. I said it was relatively extremely rare.

>Reconcile it
>Implying a reconcile is possible with extremists
>Implying their values are remotely like ours
>Implying we should compromise our values so an invasive people can stomp all over us.
>Implying the Pope playing with Muslim feet in the Vatican while they pray to Allah has any baring on an atheist.

>>53673974
Who said anything about giving to any extremists wtf
>vaIues
YOu mean its not like ancient christanity that didnt give rights to women, kill people for blasphemy etc

>Stomp
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE. The very fact you hate moslems right now is what the terrorist want. Deviding Moslems and non-moslems is what the taIeban and binIaded has been taIking for years. To have moslems beIieve that femaIe emowerement and religious tolerance is unislamic is as super win for ISIS.

>>53674099
>Giving to any extremists
Which is compromising our values to adopt there's for the sake of 'peace' as you suggest.

>Ancient Christianity
Glad that's not around anymore.

>How the fuck is that even possible
Europe is small. Massive importations along with huge breeding numbers is already threatening to turn the population of, say, Germany, 20% Muslim by 2050.

Also, the only thing any Muslim wants is to force their religion on everyone. I know how their book works. Manipulate and lie to non-believers until you can force them to convert, because paradise won't happen until nearly everyone is Muslim. There's no compromise with that.

>>53674147
and what are these "compromises"

>>53674206
You're the one that suggested them, anon.

>>53674287
what religious toIerance and female empowerement aint a western value?

>>53674321
Compromises are two way. We would have to give something up if you hope to convince them to.

Also, Islam already has religious tolerance built in, so they won't accept a change there. It only applies to Christians and Jews and it involves taking away any military or political power they have, taxing them extra hard, and consigning them to slums.

File: Physic_Meeting_+1.jpg (125KB, 700x506px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 700x506px

>>53674321
Tolerance really isn't. Then again, Islam is hardcore on Iconoclasm.
And Islam is extremely hardcore on "Islam is society", meaning you can't really discuss the religion without discussing rest of society(classes, structure, aristocracy, dictators, conversion, taxes).

Female empowerment in western society? Mostly a result of the social structure changing, so that Western Women had no place in society without Revolution. So there was a value and revolution change, being lead from high society who hit the brick wall generations before the Worker class experienced the same social changes.
That it has turned into a degenerate beast is another matter.

-----
But on the other end of the scale: Things like Prince of Persia exists, where you take all the cool hardcore elements that is enjoyable, such as the architecture. Or the good Indian elements without the Indian culture.
Or the focus on the Moon.
Islam is cool, but the way it structures society means they are also faggots.

>>53674355
>jizya law
What is UAE,malaysia , lebanon etc.
Do you Iive in a fucking rock or have you never read any isIamic country.The kind of fake news you get must be ginormous. Fucking lebanon constitution requires its other religious minorities to occupy the other two equaI to the president which would aIways be reserved to moslems. Do i see christian slums in indonesia? Yeah but there are more muslims in those slums and what is the sulawesi elite WTF|

>>53674418
But that assumes thats the only form of islam existing , again western social engineering birthed liberal islam as well. Which is i conceed smaller and miniscule population of conservative non secular islam but they exists and continue to proagate. Mia Khakifa deviding lebanon is one such example

>>53674461
Lebanon is unique. UAE is that place with a bunch of Indian slaves, isn't it? And I don't know whit about Malaysia, except that they're drifting towards fundamentalism.

>>53674515
So you are going to just deny evidence even if it still exist?
UAE slave labour is first not the fucking debate , second aII the Gulf states does it so Saudi an Ultra conservative state does it as well so its not about islamic governance, third its a fucking labour issue which many non islamic countries have considering the economics situation of the third world and not an issue on islamic compatibility

>Drifting to fundamentalism
Is that all you read, islam is bad. Because if that all you read that doesnt all the political and economic function of a society or answers the questions why some islamic countries are turning to wahhabist and some doesnt

Thats the problem with you people, all you want to jerk off is the how islam is such a satanic cult not considering the economic, political and cultural sides of development just the fucking rightwing jerkoff and fuck the consequences. Figures no wonder donald trump can't comprehend the concept of unconstutionality and importance to commitment to NATO

>>53674691
>islam is bad
It is. You guys hate dogs. The anti-pork and alcohol thing is bad enough, but hating dogs cannot be allowed.