Sup /tg/. I'm working on some lore for my setting, and I

>>53581185
Am I assuming that the Astral Plane is a separate three dimensional realm from our world, shifted in a fourth spatial dimension? Or is astral space four dimensional and is all the hyperspace "above" our 3D plane?
Basically: If I leave our real world and enter astral space, can I turn in 4D, potentially making myself mirrored? Or is turning still 3D, so that I can change my 3D orientation, but if I have a glove on my right hand I can't turn it into a left-hand glove?

Also: Gravity? Is there gravity or equivalent at all inside the Astral Realm? What keeps people from moving ana into the astral realm? Do you have to exert some kind of force to not fall back into the normal world? Is movement limited by anything?

>>53581400
In the Astral Plane, from the perspective of one who is in the Astral Plane, they are an intangible slightly transparent spirit occupying three-dimensional space, they still see themselves as being in the 'normal world'.

However in reality they are themselves occupying a fourth-dimension intersecting with the normal universe. They can move however in three dimensions, essentially allowing them to fly.

The spirits themselves are composed of magical energy, which is the point where any attempt at a scientific explanation breaks down into horrible sobbing and nonsense.

What I'm asking is whether saying "Its a fourth dimension" would produce the results I say it produces in the OP.

>>53581185
The basic concept of changing tangibility and going through objects is sound. The light and sound parts are a little stranger, the light part works if you assume that objects used by someone capable of astral shifting can also operate in four dimensions, although you may need to rely on rule of 'because' for why that light doesn't scatter and cause illumination on the material plane as well. There is a definite need for rule of 'because' when it comes to why objects used by an astral person can operate in all four dimensions but sound waves only appear in three, this would also mean that people on different 'levels' of the astral plane would be unable to hear each other as well and astral people also couldn't hear material people

File: 4d planes.png (11KB, 1080x545px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 1080x545px

>>53581455
okay just want to make sure
which of the models in pic related models your idea the best?

>>53581614
I'm not sure I understand the models, so I'll explain the idea one more time with more detail.

There exists a second three-dimensional structure that 'mirrors' the physical three-dimensional universe [without changing orientation] that appears to occupy the same 'space' as the first universe.

Which model does that coorespond to?

>>53581682
sounds like model three, the actual 'length' of the fourth dimension should be infinitesimally small according to what you're saying, am I right?

>>53581682
that would be close to the third model, with the caveat that the distance is very small, so that objects in the real world can affect ones in the astral and vice versa

This really reminds me of one SF story called Fine Structure
Spoiler
the universe we know is one in a chain of universes that form a ring. One of the protagonists, Mitchel Calrus, is a higher dimensional being trapped here. He can move in 4D and thus bypass walls and see through things in real time by angling his eyes to catch 4d light sent out by the sun that then reflects off those
Which is pretty close to what you seem to be saying

>>53581682
Ah, in this case you don't have a fourth dimension, you're just talking about two three-dimensional spaces intersecting. A four-dimensional Astral Plane would be an infinite number of 3-dimensional spaces, of which the material world is just one, a single 'slice' of the entire Astral Plane.

If you want to extend it to the 2D/3D analogy, what you're describing there would be like two opposing faces of a cube, whereas a full 4D Astral plane would be like a solid cube.

>>53582008
>>53581784
>>53581774
Why does the distance between them have to be small? Also for my edification, can someone explain the other four models?

>>53582202
if the distances are large you don't get two planes, you get millions of different planes stacked on top of each other (imagine a deck of cards where each card is a separate flatland), so for simplicity sake it's easier to just assume the total length in the 4th dimension is small enough that there's only 'room' for two

>>53582202
>1: Astral Half-Hyperspace
In this model astral space is the 4D hyperspace, bounded on one side by our world. Since it is a hyperspace you have a lot of ways to turn and move around. This is basically the world from flatland, just one more dimension
>2:Astral Hyperspace
Same as 1, but not bound this time. Two beings may be both in Astral space (by definition we would be since the real world would be in it as well) but not see each other due to the real world being in the way.
What both of these have, is the possibility of turning in 4D and becoming mirrored. You can turn so that from a view of a person in the real world you have been flipped by one axis. Imagine that the surface of the table is flatland. Put your hand on the table. From the perspective of a flatlander you have a distinct shape. If we take your right hand, we can see that clockwise you have (Thumb, Index, Middle, Ring, Pinkie). No matter how much you rotate it, this arrangement stays. Now lift your hand and turn it palm up. If you put it down that arrangement is now (Pinkie, Ring, Middle, Index, Thumb), same as if you had mirrored it.
Also: your view of the real world depends on your distance from it. Further Ana or Kata and you see less details, but more at once.
>3: Parallel space
This seems to be the closest to what OP imagines. A parallel world whose objects line up with ours and into which we can step. By assuming that the distance is infinitely small (but positive) we make sure that you can't "fall through" and end up in a gap between them. This can also be solved by making 4D travel discrete, so that you can only travel a fixed distance in that direction
>4: Gate between Worlds
Astral space and real world intersect in one line, which is actually a plane, where the real world and the astral space intersect and are the same. Moving from one to the other only happens at these places
>5: Multiple spaces
Same as 4, but with multiple distinct places

>>53582495
and I had to cut that down
So yeah, the biggest difference is between 1,2 and 3,4,5
both in size (1 and 2 are 4D; the rest are 4D with a fixed thickness) and in possibility (in the first two you can mirror yourself, in the latter three you can just pass through and see through (limited))

>>53582615
>>53582495
>>53582366
Fascinating. I understand less then half of this. So in conclusion, my model in the OP is at least semi-realistic, its soft science but its not utter nonsense?

For clarity's sake, I'll just mention that >>53582008 was my first post in the thread.

>>53582202
That question doesn't make sense, because there is no distance between them. There is just 3D space A and 3D space B. Your 4th 'dimension' in this case is just a set of two points, not actually a dimension, and movement between them is just swapping which point you're at, however that works. I'm no scientist, but I believe a model like that would be so far from reality that I don't think you could even try to apply physics; for example, light and sound both rely on the motion of particles/waves, but motion itself requires a concept of continuity, something this 4th 'dimension' does not have.
Even something like >>53582366 wouldn't work; despite an infinite number of planes they're still discreet, there's still no concept of continuity. That's not to say you can't try to make the science work in such a setup if you wanted to, you'd just have to figure out what 'motion' through a discreet space means physically. Far as I know there's nothing like that in reality.

If you want to make it a full dimension then the 3D world would be just a slice of a larger 4D space as I described before. In that case I think most of the physics would still work. Sound is the motion of physical matter, and since that matter is 3D it'd be restricted to that 3D slice. Of course that begs the question what exists in this 4D space, since matter itself is 3D. For sight maybe you could say photons are 4D or something and get something weird with that, I don't know nearly enough about the physics of light and all that quantum physics and wave-particle duality stuff to say much about how that would work

>>53582495
>>53582615
Also, the only one here that's truly 4D is 2. 3-5 have the 4th axis as a discreet space, while 1 has a boundary edge. 1 could be a section of a 4D space, but not the space in its entirety.

>>53582895
>3-5 have the 4th axis as a discreet space
ehh, I'd say that 3 has w be discrete, but with 4 and 5 it's only discrete iff the astral plane is discrete

>>53583605
Bad wording on my part, I was rushing by that point. But the idea's essentially right; you don't have a 4th dimension there, you just have another 3rd dimension that intersects at some number of points. The '4th dimension' is still just a binary choice, plane A or plane B