What modifier should I add to weapons and armor made of brass?

>>53572731
Depends what the baseline is.

Brass is pretty heavy and not exactly a weapons grade metal...

Make them shit for physical combat. But maybe for magical kit they could have a bonus.

>>53572731
+1 to whatever social attributes your system uses for looking fucking sweet.

>>53572801
Yes, one of my players want to use a brass sword and armor.

I was thinking of giving it a small penalty, like -25% dmg.

>>53572851
>Yes, one of my players want to use a brass sword and armor.
Then just let him say his armour and weapons are brass. There's no need to put penalties on him.

>>53572884
t.player
If you want to use a metal that is weaker than iron, fine, but don't complain that it's weaker than iron.

>>53572884
What this guy said.
No reason at all to penalize your players for fluffing their character in little aesthetic ways.
That means they have ideas and creative input.
That is what you want.

>>53572731
> brass

Did you mean bronze? Bronze weapons did exist and do work, and aren't even really that worse than iron (if all you have is medieval-era tech). But nobody made brass weapons except for ceremonial purposes.

>>53573042
Sorry anon, being a snowflake has a price. Also changing a core material is nowhere close to trimming. If he just wanted to decorate his weapons, then sure pay someone and do it. But changing a whole metal is another thing.

>>53573084
No brass, he wants to be the brass knight.

>>53573157

>Sorry anon, being a snowflake has a price.

Why?

>>53573157
The player should probably dump you, you don't deserve him.

>>53572851
Why would it do so much less damage? Brass is very strong, stronger than iron.
I think you don't know shit about metals. Just let him have it, as you are not educated enough to make these decisions.

>>53573157
>player wants to be a fun theme knight
>you punish him

I would love to have a player make a fun theme knight. Like Shovel Knight, of their own initiative.

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>a small penalty, like -25% dmg
>t.player
>being a snowflake has a price

>>53573157
Kill yourself, the world doesn't need more GMs like you.

>>53573157
0/10 would not play in your campaign

>>53573157
>Player comes up with fun idea
>"I'll teach you to come up with a neat idea to get invested in my game with!"

Quit the RPG Scene entirely.

>>53573157

>unironically using the word snowflake

Ohhhhh. Sorry, I get it now. I didn't realize you were a cunt.

Beyond the ad hominem, though, the dms job is usually to say "yes, and." Tell him that brass is weaker than iron, so if he wants to go that route, that's cool, but he could get brass plating and trim on his armor. Literally the only reason I'm not saying "just let it be brass for free" is because brass is expensive and I've known too many players who would end up using that as an income stream.

>>53573295
but brass is stronger than iron.
https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/11899/alternate-alloys-for-weapons-and-armor
It's just also kinda heavier.

>>53572731
I've seen people make it so their dice is more centralized (for want of a better word, I'm sure there is one).
So like 1d12 -> 2d6
1d8 -> 2d4 etc

>>53572801
Meh, it was used for ages. It depends on whether or not its being used against other brass weapons in which case it is the baseline.

If used against iron or steel have it require maintenance to ensure a sharp edge and repair excess damage, or reduce the ac by 1.

I mean, system would help.

If its magical don't bother, because its just as good as anything else with a +1 in front of it.

>>53573403
Give me exactly one (1) reason why that makes any sense whatsoever. Under that system brass deals more damage than steel on average.

>>53573454
brass is heavier.

>>53573180
Because other people are using steel weapons.

>>53573191
t.snowflake
Sorry anon, not going to cuddle.

>>53573208
>Brass is very strong, stronger than iron.
Kill yourself you retard.

>>53573233
>want to be a special snowflake
>alright you can, but it's stupid because X
>why are you punishing me?
INT needs to be at least 10 to play.

>>53573241
Yes it's true.

>>53573247
You go kill yourself, go play videogames if you want to play without thinking.

>>53573249
Bye.

>>53573271
>you are being mean
>by being realistic
Lolno.

>>53573295
It is being a snowflake to want to be the bling knight.

And yes, I did warn him why it would be a bad idea but I'm not stopping him.

>>53573347
You really shouldn't link things you don't undestand about. mPa is nowhere a meter for damage nor is iron weaker than brass.

Brass is closer to bronze, which is nowhere close to Iron or the setting Steel.

http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/materials_chemicals_adhesives/metals_alloys/nonferrous_metals_alloys/copper_brass_bronze_alloys
http://www.jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/

>>53573403
More dice usually means more 'minimum damage' through.

>>53573478
>hardness>tensile strength for weapons and armor
Retard detected

>>53573478
lolwut? You're the one who needs to go play video games if you're not going to be flexible.

>>53573478
>>53573347
So what you are telling me is brass has a tensile strength higher than iron, a hardness comparable to bronze, and a weight heavier than steel.

That would actually make it really good for arms and armor. Hard to wear, hard enough to kill a man easy, heavy enough to kill a man super hard.

It just requires a strong guy to wield.

>>53573478
>Thread universally calls you stupid
>"No, I'm right!"

Alright, everyone. OP is an idiot, leave him to his thread and go to a thread worth anything.

>inb4 "Jokes on you, I made you think I was retarded!"

>>53573515
Yeah, I guess he is pretty dumb.
I wish there was some way to save dumb people.

>>53573524
We could institute some sort of policy where they are forbidden from breeding.

>>53573537
I'd rather I was just able to strap them into the brainalizer chair and they stop being retarded.
Or maybe I make them wear a special smart helmet.

I wish these things existed.

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>>53573478
You sound like the kind of GM people write "That GM" stories about. I hope your player gets fed up with your shit.

>>53573427
>If its magical don't bother, because its just as good as anything else with a +1 in front of it.
Not every magical property have to be "+x damage". You could make it so brass is a good "magic conductor" which give a bonus to imbue spells on it or something for example.

>>53573553
Well, if magic is anything like heat, it is.

>>53573542
What would happen if we put a person of above-average intelligence into the brainalizer chair?

>>53573582
Their head -probably- explodes.

>>53573488
>Retard detected
>doesn't even know how mPA works

>>53573497
It's more like 'you can do that, but that's bad because X.'.

In fact even a bone: just trim it.

>>53573506
Tensile strenght doesn't work this way.

Second anon it really isn't better than steel for armor. Steel is protects much more.

>>53573515
>right is a popularity contest
Good thing you are not on my table.

>>53573543
>That GM who let me do stupid things but act realistic
Good luck with your story.

>>53573597
You do not understand hardness and tensile strength, anon.

>>53573478

>Because other people are using steel weapons.

And? Why does it matter?

>>53573582
they act as fuel, draining all their intelligence until they are a husk, and adding it on in scaling value proportional value to the stupidity of the next person to sit in the chair, potentially you could drain hundreds of smart people and dump all the int into a low functioning retard and make the God-Emperor.

>>53573592
>tfw to intelligent to use the brainalizer chair

>>53573597
kys senpai

>>53573027
Compromise brah. It's "brass coated" everything is clear and clean, maybe promote the player ensuring it is nice and shiny by paying a small fee to have its coating reapplied after particularly fierce battles. Then wave the fee if the brass knight makes a name for himself.

>>53573609
You don't know that when you hit something you aren't using a magical damage meter converted from mPA.

>>53573622
It matters because you want to be special, to be different from them. So sure, feel free to do so. But do it in a smart way, trim with gold, add gemstones and deduct from your gold. But changing the most effective common material is stupid.

>>53573653
If you're talking about how these things would actually work, the brass and steel weapons should have the exact same statlines, with the brass possibly having a +1 for extra weight and some durability penalties.

>>53573632
kys

>>53573637
Yes, I told him he could trim it. I said it many times in this thread but idiots don't read. In fact I don't even made it a permanent fee, jsut pay a bit more at start. But no, he wants it 100% brass.

>>53573575
Now I kinda want to know if the "brass knight" concept was just an aesthetic or if the player had an archetype like a Blade Mage.
If so, OP could work it out like that: small physical penalty but small magical bonus.

>>53572731
Cheaper
Easier to break
Easily replaceable

Iron is more expensive and more durable

Steel is near-miraculous and expensive as a motherfucker.

Brass and bronze should be the baseline, or just nonexistent.

>>53573677
Why should they have the same statlines anon? Or are you going to argue now that Brass is as good as Steel?

Please anon, don't do that. I couldn't take it.

>>53573701
Because it's hard enough to be usable as a weapon, so form factor and weight would be the more important details in how much damage it does.

The differences in the metals would show in their long term durability. The actual damage difference would be negligible to minor in the favor of whichever's heavier.

>>53573686
He wants to bling, but didn't want gold because it's too expensive.

>>53573688
Pretty much.

Still, I think brass is more expensive than iron but frankly I'm not sure.

>>53573683

>Yes, I told him he could trim it. I said it many times in this thread but idiots don't read. In fact I don't even made it a permanent fee, jsut pay a bit more at start. But no, he wants it 100% brass.

No, people are reading it. They are saying that it's not really worth applying a penalty to.

I mean, the Dark Sun rules for STONE weapons don't apply a penalty (Beyond having a chance to break if you roll a 1). Brass wouldn't have even that much.

>>53573553
sure, no problem with that. Didn't see what op specified as the system so I went for something generic.

the point I was getting at is at a certain point you can hand wave a lot of physics with magic because lord dark-edges obsidian blade forged in the fires of mount doom isnt going to shatter versus a common iron longsword despite the fact that it should chip and shatter with ungentle clinking in its sheathe by typical logic.

Brass shouldn't really do reduced damage, but rather increase the ac of metal armour against it by whatever amount. Possibly 20% of the base ac of the armour. Alternatively, just have the weapon take small amounts of damage as it strikes metal armour. I think pathfinder has rules for that.

I've seen people bandying around pretty hefty reductions in damage without much justification for it.

Why punish a player for their fluff when its ultimate impact on gameplay is so nil. Are you so invested in realism that you would reduce your players fun for its sake? Does realism deserve that kind of pedestal?

>>53573653

>It matters because you want to be special, to be different from them. So sure, feel free to do so. But do it in a smart way, trim with gold, add gemstones and deduct from your gold. But changing the most effective common material is stupid.

Why not? Silver weapons are a fantasy staple and Silver is a lot worse than Bronze for this purpose.

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>>53572731
>Hey guys, my player, instead of going full murderhobo half angel half demon, want to have an interesting and creative theme!
>How should I punish him?

>>53573739
Sigh.

Here is a quick video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbNoCC8_ztA

>>53573797
>different form factors
Well, you didn't read the post you responded to.

>>53573772
There is however still a very noticeable change through.

And frankly, I think some people here are suffering from tunnel reason. I mean, okay, suppose I made it mechanically equal to steel. Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor? When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped? Do he receive more money, less?

Sorry, but saying to 'just ignore it' doesn't cut out.

>>53572731
Unless you're going full dwarf-fortress-style simulationist physics for everything, and every attack in combat involves a good few hours of calculations determining force, strike angle, and taking into account pre-existing microfractures, there's zero reason why brass weapons and armour should have any kind of penalty. Every other combat system is suffisiently granular that the differences in physical properties between, say, steel and brass, are negligible and not worth any kind of mechanical penalty.

>>53573864
If you want to be realistic, give it a damage bonus and a penalty to durability.
If you don't want to concede to physics, make them the same.
If you want to use the same level of granularity as the system you are using, make them the same.

>>53573775
>Brass shouldn't really do reduced damage, but rather increase the ac of metal armour against it by whatever amount. Possibly 20% of the base ac of the armour. Alternatively, just have the weapon take small amounts of damage as it strikes metal armour. I think pathfinder has rules for that.
Those are actually pretty good.

>Why punish a player for their fluff when its ultimate impact on gameplay is so nil.
Because their fluff impact the setting, so they should impact the gameplay.

>>53573864

>Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor?

About as much as the Green Knight or the Red Knight or basically any other <Material/Colour> knight. There is kinda a history of that.

>>53573864
>Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor?
A few people might. It could lead to some fun interactions.

>When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped?
That's up to him I guess.

>Do he receive more money, less?
He just receives the normal amount. It's mechanically identical, just refluffed.

>>53573788
Yes, you can use your silver sword when I use werewolves.

This isn't Terraria through.

>>53573900

>Because their fluff impact the setting, so they should impact the gameplay.

So do you have characters who choose to play short characters do less damage because they are 5ft rather than 6? Or handle spears less well?

>>53573900
meh. the difference is minimal and it detracts from fun the players might have. we may have to agree to disagree given different priorities towards gaming.

>>53573796
Consequence != Punishing
Also anon, I think maybe the reaction is this thread is because /tg/ is so used to abysmal players they are protective of every one who seems to be putting some effort.

He isn't. He wanted to be a gold knight, when I showed the price he changed to brass. That's it.

>>53573910
But anon, OP seems to be playing in a terrarria setting, since he things different metals in your weapon would magically change the damage when that was not actually the case if they were at all comparable in density.
The reason you want better metals is so your weapons stop breaking so often, not to do more damage.

>>53573910

Silver weapons do -1 damage and they are much, much worse for making weapons than Brass. Do you propose to make it -0.5 damage? It's hard to make a penalty smaller than that.

>>53573864
>I mean, okay, suppose I made it mechanically equal to steel. Then, to be fair, do I make everyone treat it like it was steel? Will nobody on the world notice the dude walking with an armor made with an uncommon material that isn't used for armor? When it sells (which I'm sure he will when he gets something better), then does the whole knight persona is dropped? Do he receive more money, less?
You are a massive fucking retard.
Just because it's MECHANICALLY identical to steel doesn't mean you have to ROLEPLAY that it's exactly the same as steel.
Like this shouldn't even be a question, how thick do you have to be?
And what makes you think he'll want to sell his gear if he finds something better? Not all actions that people make are based on what's going to make them produce the biggest numbers in combat.

>>53573941

Funny thing: 3.5 actually had rules for such things.

Brass just had different hardiness/HP. Not damage or accuracy.

>>53573928
>Consequence != Punishing
Then why are you acting like they have to be the same thing?

>>53573952
>You are a massive fucking retard.
>Just because it's MECHANICALLY identical to steel doesn't mean you have to ROLEPLAY that it's exactly the same as steel.
Are you fucking retarded or did you miss that was exactly my point?

If it's mechanical identical to steel but it affects fluff, it shouldn't be 'just like steel'. It needs to be different.

Go kill yourself.

>>53573968
That's significantly more realistic than giving it a damage penalty. Kudos 3.5.

>>53573970
>Then why are you acting like they have to be the same thing?
How is it punishing saying it's less effective than the metal everyone uses?

>>53574005
So, do you want the brainalizer or the helmet? I mean, the case has been made pretty clear both in physics and in rules that it won't work the way you want it to work.

>>53574028
Probably because your suggested penalties have nothing to do with how weapons work in anything outside of terraria and minecraft.

Honestly if you are whacking someone with a sharp bit of metal the makeup would make little difference

>>53574028

Because you are making someone less effective for something that is purely fluff.

I mean, D&D is a setting where you can make armour out of wood that has the same stats as steel. Brass is kinda a lot closer to steel than that.

>>53574030
>I'm too stupid and missed the point of the thread
Yes, that was exactly to point the penalties/consequences so I can consider them. You are too dumb anon, please leave.

>>53574052
That's if you're going by how things work in the real world.
If OP is using a warcraft or terrarria setting, then BETTER METAL MORE DAMAGE.

>>53574065
So that sounds like you are asking for the helmet.

>>53574051
The point of the thread is to suggest penalties, my God kill yourself. When I said damage that was a throw at wind, if I see better consequences I will pick them. More intelligent anons than you suggested increased enemy AC, less item HP, more price. Use your brain or leave.

>>53574089
So that sounds that you run out of arguments. Feel free to get out now.

>>53574100
You consistently refused those options and continued arguing it should have different amounts of damage, anon.
If you didn't do that, then you wouldn't have 23 people calling you stupid.
Like, I told you several times the damage would be the same but the durability would be different, and only now are you capitulating to that.

>>53574100
>The point of the thread is to suggest penalties, my God kill yourself.

But, as people have said, penalties don't make much sense. The scale between steel and brass is basically non-existent on the sort of scale most roleplaying games work with.

>>53574069
I didn't have to say I didn't say Terraria because 'better metal' mentality, I said Terraria because 'the more expensive the better' irreal mentality.

A correct setting really is Dwarf Fortress. Gnomoria too, being clear with Copper < Bronze < Iron < Steel.

>>53574065
>the point of the thread
>was exactly to point the penalties/consequences so I can consider them.
Well here you go. Strap yourself the fuck in because you're about to get learned.

The consequences of using brass in weapons and armour are not significant enough to warrant any kind of mechanical disadvantage.
Boom. Fucking done. Thread over.

>>53574113
Well, hey, if you want to ignore physics and game balance, there's not many arguments I can use on your special snowflake system.

>>53574134
Nah, you're using the stellaris/terrarria/warcraft method of "the metal is better so it do more damage".
In reality, they do about the same damage, with slight variances for weight. The quality of metal comes into play with long term durability, primarily, with some extreme piercing fringe cases.

>>53574125
>You consistently refused those options and continued arguing it should have different amounts of damage, anon.
Why are you being retarded anon?

I'm arguing just against the idiots who think Brass is harder than steel or iron. That's not arguing to damage, it's arguing against stupidity.

>>53574100
No, the point of this thread is to demonstrate that you're a shithead.

>>53574156
Brass is significantly tougher than iron, given its lesser hardness and higher tensile strength. Much less prone to outright shattering, while only about as likely to warp as bronze.

>>53574129
>>53574137
Except by the clear differences in hardiness, melting point, malleability and etc?

>>53574182

And how many systems actually represent the boiling point of your weapon when you get hit with a fire weapon?

Very few systems represent any of those things.

>>53574182
The differences which are comparable to less than a -1 penalty for using a significantly lesser quality metal like silver or gold?
Because that is the level of abstraction most games tend to be on. Unless you are doing an incredibly granular system, it would be incredibly odd to include a real penalty.

>>53574182
>the clear differences in hardiness, melting point, malleability and etc?
Which are not significant enough to warrant a mechanical disadvantage.
Do you even read these posts before replying, you colossal tool?

You're all cooking in a bait bread

>>53572731
Do your setting have magic or not?
If yes, no modifiers unless special magical metals.
If no and super realistic, then negative modifiers if you hate the player and have a steel rod up your ass.

>>53572884
this

>>53574213
I actually think OP is genuine.

Hey OP unless you're going to eliminate all giants, dragons, and other such creatures from your campaign because their size would be far too large to support itself in real life (due to the square-cube law), and unless you're going to be tracking how often the players need to piss and shit and possibly menstruate while on the road, and their calories in/calories out intake with rations to determine whether they can maintain or grow their STR scores, or how good their vitamin intake is with poor nutrition punished by scurvy, et cetera, then i feel like you're being needlessly anal about the consequences of brass armor

>>53572731
What system?
In 95% of systems this is absolutely retarded, so I need to know if you are playing one of the 5%.

>>53574213
But do we cook with enough heat to reach brass melting point?

>>53574296
nah, most ovens can't go that high.
I wish they could, I need to burn some stuff.

>>53574010
In PF they give it the fragile quality. On a natural 1 it gains the broken condition, which reduces damage and accuracy by 2 points. If another natural 1 is rolled it is destroyed if still broken.

Its hardness is 9 instead of iron or steels 10.

>>53573952
I mean, this is also how I feel about it, but I couldnt be arsed to voice my irritation.
>>53573968
Thats probably the best way to handle it. Acid will eat your blade faster. Attacking significantly harder things s a great way to break your shit.

Otherwise it doesn't need to have a mechanical reinforcement.

>>53574314
and this is what, silver? brass? gold?

>>53574314
which is weird because steel is more of a 10 thing. straight iron tends to be pretty brittle to my understanding.

>>53574314

Which is dumb as hell. A brass sword wouldn't break 1 in 20 swings.

>>53574322
>Acid will eat your blade faster.
Ehh...speaking specifically of acid, I'm pretty sure brass is vulnerable than iron or steel.

>>53574350
Hey, it takes double critical failures to break it.
That's about as close as a system like 3.5 can come to simulating this shit.

>>53574369

On a natural 1 it gains broken. It's just not destroyed yet.

Whatever the stats, brass should also have a bonus for anything related to cleanliness or sterility.
That shit naturally acts as an antibiotic.

>>53574369
Not to mention that enchanting it removes the fragile quality, making it a complete non-issue unless someone tries to sunder it.

>>53574373
>look at it again
>"broken" is just a minus 2
That really should be blunted or something.

>>53574328
Bronze.
Gold weapons are useless, and so is silver. The game straight up says they are useless. There is alchemical silver and silversheen, which are the two ways of getting silvered weapons to kill monsters with that defense.

>>53574344
Game hardness not real life hardness. How much damage it can suffer before that's actually applied to its HP score. Basically DR for materials.

>>53574350
Dulled and blunted, maybe a slightly twisted? Yes. Fully broken and useless? That takes two natural ones.

>>53574390
Its a game term for a wide variety of materials indicating them functioning at a reduced capacity, needing repairs immediately.

>>53574381
Doesn't even need to be magic, just masterwork, which is nice

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I just wanna let you guys know that, even if this is a bait thread, I've learned a lot about some things.

Your effort has been noted.

>>53574461
Sure, sure.
Remember, humans are pussies, so historically better metal did not mean thicker armor, but rather thinner, wider spread armor.
Because god forbid you be a 300 pound juggernaut of steel. Nooo, human systems can't deal with that weight for long durations.
This is why dwarves are better.

>>53574461
I'll take you up on that invite, thank you.

>>53572851
I'm not dure what system you're playing, but it would be simpler to just lower the size of the damage dice of brass weapons by 1 than performing the math to determine how much 25% less is every time you roll for damage. I suppose, if you're subtracting 25% maximum damage instead of 25% actual damage it would become easier (especially if the system you're playing a system that uses a d100 for damage) but it still seems like an unnecessary complication.

>>53574357
less vulnerable? It is made of non ferrous metals but I thought that had more to do with iron content/rust.

Brass weapons would be immune to rust monsters :P

>>53574314
OP here.

That's pretty good. I'm using this.

>>53574596
Yeah, I somehow missed a word there. Iron(and most kinds of steel, by extension) is very vulnerable to corrosion compared to just about every other alternative, because most other metals(save for alkaline and earth alkaline metals) either don't oxidize as easily or when they do oxidize, the oxides form a protective coating around the rest of the metal.

>Brass weapons would be immune to rust monsters :P
If it's made of metal, rust monsters can eat it.

>>53574596
>Brass weapons would be immune to rust monsters :P
Brass doesn't rust, but it does corrode. It's just not called rust.

>>53574708
Actually, that raises a good question.
How the fuck would a rust monster be able to eat titanium? It gets stronger when you rust it. It relies on the metal turning into a weak powder when touched, and it doesn't seem to have any rare metals like gallium or mercury to do a reaction.

>>53574751
magic
wizarddon'tgottaexplainshit.jpg

>>53574869
goddamnit wizard how does your magic fucking work.

>>53572731
>>53572731
>>53572731
John B is that you?

>asking this unironically

I fucking hope OP is here because i need to know

>>53574737
>>53574708
Antennae: The rust monster corrodes a nonmagical ferrous metal object it can see within 5 feet of it.

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rust%20Monster#content

Nope, needs iron, brass immune to rust monster at least as far as 5e goes.

>>53574704
Please see
>>53574884

>>53574751
IDK, they can even eat gold, so they probably use aqua regia or something.

ITT: That GM

>>53574884
>>53574902
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B
Sounds cool.

>>53574960
ITT: That GM who refuses to cuddle his players ego

>>53575025
Not what i meant

But assuming you are


You fucking let kramer or whoever use brass armor you fucking cunt.

Dont be such a stubborn and vindictive GM

This is how you lose friends

>>53575025
I dunno, it was pretty conclusively proved the DM was being pants on head retarded about this.
It's good he was talked down to a more reasonable stance.

>>53575066
Wut? I don't know any Kramer. Stop drinking anon.

>>53575071
>it was proved
Kek.

>It's good he was talked down to a more reasonable stance.
Nowhere I said it had to be a damage penalty, it was a throw out for debating. What I debated was the idiots saying that brass was like iron and steel or other idiots who don't know how to read.

Please trim your weapons next time anon.

>>53575136
Wow it really is you.

>>53575162
>I'm not him
>That proves you are him!
Wow anon, what a discovery.

>>53575136
You're arguing with the guy you capitulated to earlier in the thread. Brass is very comparable to iron, with a higher tensile strength and lower hardness. Less prone to shatter, more prone to warp, approximately the same in damage, with perhaps a slight variance for weight.
>>53575162
He doesn't deserve you, man.

>>53575180
Thanks man. i know, i just feel extra bad for his players now.

File: 798893587_555943[1].gif (235KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

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i once had a player who had a PC who was a forged, in her backstory she was a sailor, she always had a thing for guns and had a memento golden locket which she usually hid on her back. later got "replaced" by a younger one, one thing led to another so she became a knight with 2 guns, in a light armor made of brass, now when she asked if she could have that armor, i didnt understood why, but somehow it hit me
sailormate, "golden locket" in the back, "upgraded" to brass while still using guns, she was a fucking medabot, that was a nice campaign
picrelated, sorry i couldnt find a less cancerous one

>>53575180
>You're arguing with the guy you capitulated to earlier in the thread.
>capitulated
Wut? Control your cognitive dissonance anon.

I called you repeately retarded for not understanding how tensile strenght works. That what happened if you have forgotten.

>>53574005
>If it's mechanical identical to steel but it affects fluff, it shouldn't be 'just like steel'. It needs to be different.
I don't understand how people get like this. Why would mechanics have to perfectly reflect fluff? It's a game of pretend; the mechanics aren't even an accurate representation of anything to begin with

>>53575237
Dang, you're really running back whatever grace you had in being told you were retarded.

>>53575243
Because it's retarded to pretend half but forget the other to favour the player.

>>53573478
Holy shit, I didn't know Trump ran a game.

Way to shit on all the advice you asked for, Mr. President.

>>53575237
I hate to tell you anon, but he's right about tensile strength and hardness here.

>>53572731
Why are you showing such favoritism to some players and not others?
You let kramer have the brass armor.

>>53575271
Which grace anon? Are you sure you are referring one of my posts?

I pretty much insulted mostly of the people, except those who actually gave answers that actually helped worldbuilding.

>>53575283
You're already playing pretend, anon.

Besides, GM's job isn't to make sure every PC is equal to every other PC ever made. It's to make sure everyone at the table is having fun.

>>53575288
>now come the /pol/acks

>>53575295
>two anons agree, pack up and go home
You guys should go back to physics class. Ask if you are hitting someone you are using MPa.

>>53575316
>it's the memefags now
Yes, because Kramer deserved it. Because he trimmed his armor and weapons like an intelligent person, and accepted to pay a bit for the cost of it.

>>53574908
Acids are less "this dissolves anything" and more "this one dissolves this, that one dissolves that".

Aqua regia for example does jack shit to titanium. Hydrochloric acid on its own however (aqua regia being a mix of hydrochloric and nitric acid) will happily attack titanium.

Hydroflouric acid on the other hand won't touch gold, but will make titanium disappear in a hurry.

>>53575359
>Besides, GM's job isn't to make sure every PC is equal to every other PC ever made.
>GM's should show favoritism because fun
>disregard that other people may find it unfair the others fun
Sure anon, in fact I had a good idea: I will give gold itens (with steel stats) to one, silver to another (with steel stats), bronze to another (with steel stats) and then dub them the Metal Knights. Their mission is to find the Titanium armor (with steel stats) and save the universe.

I laughed while I typed that btw. Thanks anon.

>>53575393
You're actually usually hitting someone with weight, if you want to get all technical. Force, to be even more technical. As long as the metal can withstand human force, it will act about the same.

I mean, this is basic here. And both metals can withstand the force according to the hardness and tensile strength.

>>53575433
Congratulations on demonstrating that you not only missed the point, but are too retarded to ever get it. Please die in a fire.

>>53575433
>I will give gold itens (with steel stats) to one, silver to another (with steel stats), bronze to another (with steel stats) and then dub them the Metal Knights. Their mission is to find the Titanium armor (with steel stats) and save the universe.
There's literally nothing wrong with that

>>53575465
>get mad because I made fun of you
>to illustrate why it's silly to bend the world because fluff

>>53575481
It's all trimmed. :^)

>>53575451
I really wish I could find a video to show you someone hammering brass and steel, so you could see the clear difference of how they react.

>>53575586
I wish you had experience working with either material, so you knew how they reacted.

>>53575540
>I was only pretending to be retarded
Go pretend to be retarded elsewhere, retard.

>>53575603
>>53575586
I like how the one guy keeps saying brass and iron, and how the other keeps saying steel instead.

>>53575605
>still mad because I'm making fun of your stupidity
You need 10 int to post there. Feel free to leave.

>>53575620
That's because iron IS harder than brass, but even if it wasn't weapons are in standard steel.

>>53575631
Too bad you only have 3

>>53575631
Nah, you can have far less. I mean, look at OP. That's easily a 5, maybe 6 int.

>>53575645
You don't choose a material entirely on hardness, anon. Tensile strength is also very important for durability.

>>53575683
>>53575645
If hardness was the be all end all, we'd be using ceramic weaponry. That's way harder than steel.

>>53575646
>>53575649
>just salt
You guys suck at this.

>>53575649
Seeing how I got what I asked for, plus I have made some idiots mad (which always happen on 4chan), I think it was pretty decent.

>>53575698
Are you talking about Fine Ceramics?

>>53575778
Most ceramics have a hardness higher than metals.
Unfortunately, their tensile strength aint that great.

>>53575778
Anon, why are you so angry?

>>53575819
>Most ceramics
I must point out that ceramics that replace steel are usually 'fine ceramics', which are made with advanced technology.

>>53575849
>angry
*sips*

>>53575894
Even a floor tile is harder than steel, anon.
Though, really, why are you being so bitter and /v/ like here?

>>53575915
>>53575894
man, even shitty-ass porcelain is harder than steel. And that stuff is ancient.

>>53575915
>bitter
Mocking you is not being bitter anon.

>>53575915
>>53575942
Source? Not fine ceramic through, since it works differently.

>>53574005
I see the problem here- the problem is that you're autistic

>>53576062
The problem is that it's silly to compromise the setting because of an individual player, the same player that I offered a very easy solution to the problem that would fit perfectly with the setting and the fluff.

>>53576059
Makeitfrom.com lists porcelain as having a Rockwell hardness of 60, compared to modern grade 304 stainless steel's 70. The biggest difference is their tensile strengths, which determines resilience and strength of the material as a whole.

>>53576116
Op you should really just let kramer have his fun

>>53576216
Also, for a more hands on approach, try and scratch a china plate with a steel knife, and the plate itself is usually fine until it shatters. Even ancient ceramics and glasses were very hard, but it's the resilient metals, like bronze and steel that dominate, because hardness is not everything there is to strength.

>>53576059
first google
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness
steel is 4-4.5. Porcelain is a whopping 7.0,

>>53576216
most sources I can find state porcelain at a figure near double steel.
https://bestflooringchoices.wordpress.com/tag/mohs/

wow. I'm guessing OP still thinks that diamonds are the best material ever to use for swords, because of hardness?

>>53576586
>>53576538
>>53576216
If you have a really high carbon steel, it can get up to 8, but it gets much more fragile and brittle.

ok, unrelated but, i'm making a homebrew and this seems like the best place to ask about this:
my armors have 3 main stats, Defence, Weight & Durability, what propierties used to measure real materials (like rockwel hardness, resilence, etc.) can i use as base line for these 3 stats?

>>53576216
>>53576299
That's a pretty interesting site anon.

It also does proves that steel is stronger than brass:

http://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C21000-CW500L-Gilding-Brass
http://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/ASTM-A210-Medium-Carbon-Steel

And iron is harder than brass:

http://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/UNS-C21000-CW500L-Gilding-Brass
http://www.makeitfrom.com/material-properties/Austempered-Ductile-Cast-Iron

Or equivalent, if I use that other iron alloy.

>>53576272
I hate Kramer through.

>>53576589
You cannot make a diamond sword through. Not only it would be hell to make, expensive, but diamond is too brittle.

A diamond coating could help through.

>>53576665
>making a homebrew that tries to model these things in any detail beyond the extremely minor
>does not have a background in physical chemistry
>asks on /tg/
You are biting off more than you can chew.

>>53576685
>guy tells you iron is harder than brass but has less tensile strength dozens of times
>oh, this proves iron is harder than brass but has less tensile strength
No duh.

Also diamond is actually rather cheap to make, that is why they use it for industrial cutting. It's super hard, and easily replaceable when it breaks, because it breaks often.

It's NATURAL diamonds, the shitty, impure, weaker ones that are expensive.

>>53576685
what are you even arguing at this point? Hard things are brittle. Why is harder better?

>>53576706
Brass: 240 to 450 MPa
Ductile Cast Iron: 910 to 1490 MPa

>Also diamond is actually rather cheap to make
With modern technology.

File: brain problems.png (22KB, 623x371px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53576722
because hardness is the only thing that matters in a weapon, anon

;^)

>>53576687
im basically trying to avoid the whole "what is better armor than this armor" by using those 3 stats and stuff like, "iron is harder than gold, but gold has magic propierties"
i dont want my players using only "end game armor" wanna give them reasons to vary it

>>53576734
>ultra low carbon, soft iron is higher tensile strength than brass
No duh, it's softer in that state.

>>53576722
>what are you even arguing at this point?
I'm not arguing actually, I just said that a diamond sword is too brittle to be used.

Harder is better until a point.

>>53576761
What iron alloy would you rather use to compare with medieval grade metal?

>>53576734
>>53576779
Ductile cast iron is only a 14.5 on the brinell hardness scale, roughly 1.5 on the mohs hardness index.
Less than half as hard as brass.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/hardness.html

Why did you bring it up here
>>53576734
?

>>53576779
Probably normal iron. The shit that has less tensile strength than brass, but more hardness.
More likely to shatter and break, less likely to warp.

>>53574227
ROLL TO AVOID MENSTRUAL CRAMPING

>>53576665
density isn't necessarily equivalent to weight. You can just bring thicker plate. I actually think that malleability might be your best bet. The thinner you can get the plate, the lighter you can make the armor.

Durability is a catchall sum of ability to resist deformation, amount of deformation it can handle without tearing, and ability to revert in the case of some shape memory materials. This is too much to really calculate.

Defence is the hardest of all. Really, it's not the material that decides it, but the design and structure of the armor. What shapes, angles, and layers are used. How much force is deflected and absorbed and from what angles. Defence may as well be a measure of craftsmanship rather than material property barring magic.

>>53576734
If you are in a world with magic, you are in a world where they can make industrial diamonds.

>>53576788
I am using this site:
http://www.makeitfrom.com/

>>53576788
>>53576800
There is no 'normal iron', so I picked up one from the cast ones as 'closest' one. If you find another closer please point it out.

>>53576853
Depends on how magical it is.

Otherwise you could make it rain gold and wreck the economy.

>>53576885
Why not just use the one in wikipedia labelled as "iron"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness
The one with more hardness and less tensile strength than brass.
I mean, you're not an expert in this, just take the default.

>>53576904
Not really. All you need to have is a relatively low grade heat spell.
I mean, you can make this shit in the microwave.

>>53573042
Then just say "a brass [colored] sword", not some immersion ruining bullshit. At least try not to be so lazy you can't even tack on a quick "oh, by the way, it functions like steel because...uh, magic, or something". Give him SOMETHING, give him ANYTHING to work with beside just "lmao, my sword brass and it work like steel because".

>>53572731
You should penalize your players for having weapons made of metals and not porcelain.

>>53576967
Well, because physics is usually a good enough explanation for most people, but I guess you don't like it.

>>53576912
First off in this link there is no brass for direct comparison.

Second that's not worked iron. Just working already change it's properties (because impurities). Please pick an alloy from that other site.

>>53573180
>>53573191
>>53573233
>>53573247
>>53573249
>>53573271
>>53573295

>High Fantasy noobs

Lmao @ ur lives. Literally a case of "Mad Cuz Bad": History and Realism edition.

>>53576930
>I mean, you can make this shit in the microwave.
Show me some anon.

>>53577025
brass' hardness has gone around a fair amount, and has even been told to you.
It's less than iron's, so it is more likely to warp, but it is less brittle, so it is less likely to shatter.
http://homepage.usask.ca/~mjr347/prog/geoe118/geoe118.mohs.html

>>53577061
Here, you can make sandlike diamonds useful for cutting and abrasion, using two coffee mugs, some fancy ashes, olive oil, and a microwave.
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Synthetic-Diamond/

Literally the first google result. You are asking to be spoonfed here like a small baby.

>>53577087
Not really, just making a point.

How the hell would you cast a spell to do all this? In fact, how would you even know to think about something like this?

It's nowhere just 'use a microwave'.

>>53577065
Anon let's try to stay on the same site.

>>53577147
>anon, let us fail basic rigor and use only one source
Multiple sources make a stronger thesis, anon.

>>53577147
How would they get the idea of producing steel steel?
Could it be trying to heat things with a combination of a variety of household ingredients like ash or oil?

If you've got any kind of heat spells that exist, that shit would be found the moment they invented the first wizard or alchemist.

>>53577171
>Multiple sources make a stronger thesis, anon.
Except that multiple sources contradict themselves.

You showed the site
http://www.makeitfrom.com with several allows, including brass and several based of iron and steel. Why not work there?

>>53577199
Steel is already a common knowledge. All equipment standard is steel.

>>53577209
Because they are only one set of data, anon.
When working with real materials, you will find that the specifics vary by sample to sample, so you have to use a wide variety to get a good idea of how things are.

>>53577147
>How the hell would you cast a spell to do all this? In fact, how would you even know to think about something like this?
How do you think all these different iron alloys got made? People stuck trees into their molten metal.

If you're assuming all iron alloys and even steel is in play, then people are most certainly pulling weird shit with magic.

>>53577235
Well then, your setting is certainly far enough along that they would have developed artificial diamonds, assuming magic exists.

>>53577251
Wut.

Steel is the standard in most medieval settings. There are no industrial diamonds through unless you are homebrewing it.

>>53577236
It does feature hardness and mPA, which are what we are working with through.

>>53577247
I'm not assuming all iron alloys, this is why I said to pick the closest one.

>>53574227
I hate this whole "IT'S SUPUZZED TO *bee emoji* UNREALISTIC!!!!!" meme. It's called verisimilitude, you DENSE motherfucker. Literally the most Reddit shit ever.

Why the fuck WOULDN'T there be consequences to wearing different types of armor or using different types of weapons again? Like, literally, for WHAT FUCKING PURPOSE WOULDN'T THERE BE CONSEQUENCES TO USING DIFFERENT MATERIALS IN THEIR WEAPONS OR ARMOR? Like how again? Why? What's the reason again? Why? What the fuck? Why aren't we doing this? Why the fuck isn't there a difference between iron and steel again? Is it because you're a lazy fucking DM? Is that what it was? Why aren't we including the detail that iron is heavier and more brittle than steel again? What's the reason? Why did we think this was such a good idea?

Seriously, shut the fuck up. It's not being "needlessly anal", you fucking fagzor. It's called "not treating your audience like they're fucking 6 year olds", you fucking 6 year old.

>>53577340
so? You have steel. How many alloys do you think they went through before they hit on weapons-grade steel?

The fact that they know of alloys being better instead of continually aiming for purer and purer iron means they went through a TON of experiments.

>>53576983
What explanation? That against a steel sword, the brass sword is more likely to rend and warp after fewer strokes? That it'll more quickly dull and lose its taper than its bronze cousins? That while it's weight may be used as an advantage to the player, it may also retroactively punish them like it would in real life? I'm not saying "no, you're not allowed to be a brass knight"; I'm saying "Iron Man isn't literally made of Iron, but he's still called Iron Man", you know what I'm saying?

How about just "My guy's called the Brass Knight, but he's not really a brass knight", 'na mean?

>>53577453
>so? You have steel.
Steel is a basic. It was created in the medieval age.

It's a matter of setting anon. There is no industrial diamonds before industry.

>>53573750
Depends where you are. The materials for brass are easier to spot and scavenge, the materials for iron are easier to refine in large amounts. Overall, if you have any bronze its probably going to be because there's not much iron, driving the price up. Done.

>>53577498
Brass is a luxury material through. It isn't nowadays but in the past it was used for luxury.

>>53577482
>It's a matter of setting anon. There is no industrial diamonds before industry.
not necessarily, you have magic.

I'd say the biggest factor is getting a tough enough seal. plonk a barrier around an explosive and the raw materials, and you have industrial diamonds. That's a one-mage job, compared to what it takes to mass produce industrial diamonds.

itt: head of the fun police

>>53577476
>That against a steel sword, the brass sword is more likely to rend and warp after fewer strokes? That it'll more quickly dull and lose its taper than its bronze cousins?
having something inbetween both materials is pretty decent. You've already been told that having a comparable weapon is enough for the abstraction of combat; a difference in material isn't THAT big a difference for one, even a couple fights in succession.

>weight
yes, with adventurers that have way more STR than regular humans.

>>53572884
>>53573042
>>53573191
>>53573208
>>53573233
the fuck am I reading?
How are there seriously so many people bitching about there being consequences for your choices. Like, fine be a Brass Knight, but if there's no penalty to doing so then it undercuts the significance of the character's actions.

>>53573157
this

>>53572731
Bass is similar to bronze, though brass tends to have better properties in general.
And bronze blades were used as weapons during the bronze age. Some notable traits I recall was they while they quickly dulled and dinted, they also could be fixed and given an extra fine sharpening with little need for tools or advanced skills. This allowed solider to fix their weapons between battles, rather then relying on an overworked smith which simplified some logistics. Also the stuff is heavy so while swings are slower they have more energy behind them. Given the sharp edge and large mass the opening strike of these could be surprisingly powerful, but would need to be tended to after each fight as they quickly dull.
I would give some nice first strike bonus if they completed field maintenance on it before battle, but would drop the bonus for each attack so after a said number of strikes it preforms worse then a regular sword till they take time to fix it. Great for opening one hit strikes, but would suck for long fights with lots of back and forth. I would also give it a small bonus against heavy armor given the mass it has, like a heavy club. This would not count against blunt force armor, more typically used in light or medium armor. A more unusual thing to consider is corrosion resistance. Brass doesn't rust, it patinas. (While I could go into the more technical differences about crystal structure morphology which nobody ever correctly references if they even know it exists (shakes fist at everyone)) Basically it takes a lot of corrosion to really hurt it. So in a more exaggerated setting a monster that spits acid could melt regular swords but would have trouble with a brass one.

Does that help?

>>53577783
Thanks for the post anon.

Yeah, like I said on the thread I will use the PF rules for Bronze: a 1 make the blade dull, another 1 without repairing risks destroying it.

>>53573597
>right is a popularity contest
>implying it's not
This is what people who are wrong every day say to themselves to sleep at night. If everyone disagrees with you, you are wrong.

>>53577666
>a difference in material isn't THAT big a difference for one
Alright, but there'll still be a consequence. You have to put your foot down in the sand somewhere. The player has to have his sharpen his sword twice as often as steel swords, or maybe his swing is slower and he's slower to recover from an attack due too the weight of the sword, but just saying "meh, I don't wanna worry about THAT" just seems like a bit of a cop-out. You know, they're small consequences, and I'm sure if the player wants, he'll live with his choices, but I'm presenting a world in which his decision DOES impact his character because that's the kind of world they live in; a dynamic and livable one.

>way more STR than regular humans
This is more personal affair, but in my settings, adventurers are just that-- regular humans. One unlucky cut to the thigh can bleed them out within minutes, carrying too much loot is not only too heavy, but also too bulky and restrictive. You want a longsword made of brass or gold? Go right ahead, but unless you're 180+lbs of muscle and testosterone (quite rare in a medieval setting), there's going to be a significant penalty to speed and dexterity, which could be better performed by a steel sword any way.


>>53577783
Interesting. This is what I'm talking about. Not so much "penalties" to the user, but rather "consequences" that they must weigh and assess.

>>53577903
>If everyone disagrees with you, you are wrong.
So Earth suddenly became spherical?

>>53577357
Please go back home.

>>53577767
You actually would probably have a bonus, if anything.

>>53577919
Anon, I know for a fact you do not keep track of sword sharpening. I also know for a fact you do not play in a realistic setting.

>>53578045
>You actually would probably have a bonus, if anything.
Why would you get a bonus for using a metal worse than steel?

>>53577919
>>a difference in material isn't THAT big a difference for one
>Alright, but there'll still be a consequence. You have to put your foot down in the sand somewhere. The player has to have his sharpen his sword twice as often as steel swords, or maybe his swing is slower and he's slower to recover from an attack due too the weight of the sword, but just saying "meh, I don't wanna worry about THAT" just seems like a bit of a cop-out. You know, they're small consequences, and I'm sure if the player wants, he'll live with his choices, but I'm presenting a world in which his decision DOES impact his character because that's the kind of world they live in; a dynamic and livable one.

And what is the upside then?

>>53578079
More weight on that weapon in the same package.

>>53572731
Bronze is objectively superior in every way for weapons, maybe point that out.

>>53578097
Except that it's less durable.

Brass existed since ancient Rome, there is a reason why people just used it for luxury.

>>53578174
Yeah, but durability aint damage. It's durability.

>>53578185
Yes, so that's still a penalty.

The damage penalty was dropped posts ago for a durability one.

>>53578245
Yeah, that's about right. Damage bonus, durability malus.

>>53578257
>damage bonus
As another anon said, damage bonus need a bigger level of difference. Like Silver compared to Steel just gets a -1.

>>53573864
absolutely unique totally interesting sometimes mysterious

>>53578287
Yeah, so it gets a plus one.
All of these things, from durability to damage difference, are so minor as to be difficult to even present in a d20 system. Hence the minimum-possible-modifiers and double-crit-fail-requirements.

>>53578094
Don't know. Never seen a brass sword before. But from what that other guy said, I'd assume it'd do quite well as a sort of "initial attack" weapon, or as a type of "fire and forget" sword. Kind of like how sometimes you pick up an AK for a few seconds before dropping it in Call of Duty or whatever. Also, if you're strong enough to swing a brass sword around like it's made of steel, then I'm sure it would be pretty effective in your hands.


>>53578059
You're right, I don't keep track of sword sharpening, but it's a fair, if redundant mechanic that represents what I'm mean to explain; that all decisions should share a fair consequence.

I'm actually one of those MUH REALISM guys you keep hearing about nowadays. Human-only campaigns with very few exceptions, often comparable to playing Fallout on Hardcore mode or something. I don't like settings where heroes can just fly around and cut down 30 odd mooks with ease. I want a world where if you sleep in the wrong bed, someone will cut your throat before you can wake to see the next day. Unintended consequence; money actually feels important, rather than being some sort of in-game "high score".

>>53578302
The jump of Silver to Steel is too different when compared to Brass to Steel. Not enough to get a +1.

>>53578323
I don't buy that you're the MUH REALISM crowd, given your original post in the thread.

>>53578348
That guy is not OP anon. I'm OP >>53578343

But I like realism in my setting, at least enough to make clear choices have consequences.

>>53578343
Seems to me like you're cherrypicking.

>>53578366
I don't think you are really up for "consequences", given how wildly inaccurate your gut response to things is without a council of 40+ people to inform you.
Like, you just don't have the depth of experience or knowledge needed to make consequences happen that make sense.

>>53577030
Realism my ass. If I wanted realism I'd play FATAL.

>>53578393
Wow, what are you talking about anon?

Or are you going to go 'damage value', which was just a throw to the wind and dropped when I found something better?

>>53578452
Yeah, you can't really run a thing with consequences that make sense if your snap judgements are that poor.

>>53578476
>make a thread for suggestions because I'm thinking the best way to do X
>throw something just for example, to illustrate
>that proves you are a terrible DM DX
Eh no. That would be like saying 'if you was a good DM you wouldn't create a thread'. Try again anon.

>>53578323
>Don't know. Never seen a brass sword before. But from what that other guy said, I'd assume it'd do quite well as a sort of "initial attack" weapon, or as a type of "fire and forget" sword. Kind of like how sometimes you pick up an AK for a few seconds before dropping it in Call of Duty or whatever. Also, if you're strong enough to swing a brass sword around like it's made of steel, then I'm sure it would be pretty effective in your hands.

And how would you represent that? If you are representing the supposed downsides?

>>53578543
If you were a good GM, you would have researched this shit on your own, or waved it off.
Instead you need a council of 40 to hold your hand and tell you in polite terms you are very retarded, use something else instead.
Like, read a dang RPG book.

>>53578543

Well, OP doesn't seem to be actually listening to any advice despite asking for it.

>>53578585
not true: He listened to advice, begrudgingly, after he was browbeaten into it.

>>53578567
Feel free to post a page with brass weapons in a RPG book. I will wait.

Also I like the number of people keeps changing, especially since the majority of those didn't even read a thread or said 'don't do this because that's mean'. I really care about those people anon. Really.

>>53578585
I listen to good advice anon. And I already got it. Plenty even. I'm just indulging you guys because, who knows, maybe something else may pop later.

>>53578625
How was I browbeaten into it?

You mean the advice I took from one anon , who suddenly made a post and I liked it? >>53574314

Wow you really are disingenous. Good job.

>>53578665
Man, it must suck to have your real name attached to this so you have to try to save face.

>>53578665

>I listen to good advice anon. And I already got it. Plenty even. I'm just indulging you guys because, who knows, maybe something else may pop later.

So you can't actually recognise good advice/re-examine your position. You only want advice that reinforces it.

>>53578348
Just as a quick reminder, my original post was the one saying he should just have the character explain that all his equipment was simply brass colored, rather than being actual brass, if he wanted none of the consequences of wearing actual brass armor. As for how MUH REALISM muh realism actually gets, I'd be perfectly fine with brass swords; I just don't think brass swords should be played with the same mechanics as, say, steel swords should be played. Ceremonial swords can still be used as swords after all, there's just a specific reason why they weren't carried into combat.

>>53578393
>>53578476
>>53578567
What the fuck? That's some seriously pretentious bullshit, anon. Now it's time for me to call YOU out, because that's some straight Reddit rhetoric. Dude, seriously, shut the fuck up. A brass sword should NOT play equal to a steel sword, no matter how "creative" someone was with their character creation. Jesus Christ, this is like dealing with a regressive leftist liberal or something. Your entire "critique" of him putting modifiers on brass weapons was "don't put modifiers on it at all, lol". You wanna know my snap judgement of you? You're a stagnated Forever-GM who's grown lazy and comfortable with your own inability to challenge yourself. You forgo interesting mechanics and good story-telling to crunch numbers and roll dice, which would be fine, I suppose, because there are people that like only doing the math; but you assume that everyone else has to play like you, or else they're somehow mentally inferior to your own, GRAND wisdom.

Honestly, I feel like you'd be fun to hang out with if you weren't such a pretentious faggot. And I say that because I feel like you get that a lot.

...It's not even the good pretention too, like how Tony Stark can be an asshole because he's just that good. You're more of a psuedo-intellectual who thinks you should be given political authority because REEEE THE WORLD WOULD BE BETTER IF EVERYONE WERE LIKE ME!

>>53578706
What's my real name anon?

>>53578715
Actually I can recognise good advice, which isn't 'indulge the player because I would like my DM feeding my ego'.

Would you really be pissed off anon if you asked to use a gold sword for example, and your DM said 'gold is expensive and not good for a weapon, why not use steel and trim it instead?'

>>53578756
>A brass sword should NOT play equal to a steel sword, no matter how "creative" someone was with their character creation.

So it's alright to penalise a player for something that is just fluff?

Would you also penalise someone trying to use a spear if his character was 4ft 10?

>>53578756
>reddit meme
Oh, so you're not from /tg/. That explains why you are getting so pissy and angry about being corrected.

>>53578800
OP here.

>So it's alright to penalise a player for something that is just fluff?
Depends on the fluff. Is it 'I want to carry a worthless pendant as memory of my family?' Knock yourself out.

>Would you also penalise someone trying to use a spear if his character was 4ft 10?
Depend. Did his size fall from Medium to Small?

>>53572731
If you aren't playing riddle of steel, it will have the same stats.

>>53578772
>Actually I can recognise good advice, which isn't 'indulge the player because I would like my DM feeding my ego'.

D&D is a setting where you can make a weapon out of ICE and it won't be penalised (Source: Frostburn).

Compared to that, brass is nothing.

>>53578846
>Depend. Did his size fall from Medium to Small?

No, lower end of medium. Much like the brass, it's pure fluff.

>>53578871
I don't have Frostburn, but if I did I would use the same rule as a weapon made by stone.

>>53578883
>comparing a small height difference to an entire different material
>it's pure fluff
Okay anon, I accept your fluff when there are as many brass armors going around as there are short people.

>>53578564
Someone before me said it just fine. I don't think I could have improved it much more.

>Bonus on first attack
>Bonus on crit to first attack
>Heavier
>3lb brass sword much shorter than 3lb steel sword
>Slightly higher strength needed to wield effectively
>Expensive
>Hard to find vendors or NPCs who also use or sell brass swords


>>53578800
No, you fool. I'd penalize the player for being 4'10". Being short isn't "fluff". Being short is "oh shit, I'm going to get my shit kicked in by someone a whole foot taller than me and 30 pounds heavier." In fact, I'd sat the player chose wisely for thinking to use a spear, because certainly, a weapon with good reach would help compensate for his diminished stature.


>>53578801
This is my secondary board. Would've been my primary board if Redditors like you hadn't wormed your way into the cracks since 2015.

>>53578973
>Okay anon, I accept your fluff when there are as many brass armors going around as there are short people.

I don't think we have as many of any armour as short people.

>>53578987
Yeah, it's pretty obvious you don't come around here much.
The boogeyman here is generally /pol/ and invaders from other boards like yourself claiming everyone is reddit.

>>53579003
Don't worry anon, then as many brass armors when compared to steel armors, taking the ratio of average people vs short people. :^)

>>53578871
I'd like to remind people that not everyone plays DnD and not everyone plays a similar high-fantasy setting. I mean, a sword made out of ice sounds neat, but I'm sure it's literally more than just a sword made of actual ice. I'm willing to bet 20 bucks it has some sort f enchantment or spell placed upon it to perform better than what's essentially an edged popsicle.

>>53578987
>No, you fool. I'd penalize the player for being 4'10". Being short isn't "fluff". Being short is "oh shit, I'm going to get my shit kicked in by someone a whole foot taller than me and 30 pounds heavier."

So you'd penalise them more than if they were playing a dwarf? As they get no penalties for size.

>>53578987
>No, you fool. I'd penalize the player for being 4'10". Being short isn't "fluff".

What about being left handed? It's rather difficult to fight left-handed duelists. Is it optimal to make your character left handed?

>>53579012
You know that pepe the frog picture that everyone uses when they're getting sick of someone's bullshit? The picture they use where his face is all like "wow, are you fucking kidding me"? Imagine that, except instead of that picture, it's my big fat middle finger sticking right up into the God damned sky. Oh, gee, wow, whaddya think of that, hmmm? What stats do you think would go with that? I think it'd be mechanically similar to a fucking picture of a tired Pepe the frog. What do you think of that? What are your opinions on the matter? Gmail me your next response, because I can't wait to toss it in the trash bin.

I tried reading the entire thread bu holy shit it was just too painful.

Don't change the damage profiles of the weapons depending on the material.

Change the durability and the cost. Steel should be the most durable with iron and bronze being tied.

Cost is entirely dependent on era/setting and the prevalence of steel in that setting. IRL Bronze was only supplanted by iron due to supply issues with tin and copper used to make bronze. Iron took more time and labor to make compared to bronze but the base materials were easier to acquire. It was not notably better when used in weapons and armor then bronze.

Limit the PCs weapon choices to the type of weapons traditionally made from bronze. If he wants to use a greatsword then he is stuck using steel. If he doesn't mind using a xiphos or kopis or such shortsword then he's fine.

>>53579236
People don't generally use that around here, anon. Pepe is sort of disliked on /tg/.

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well, no idea what system. so not going to give numbers

but a brass armour would either be significantly heavier, or significantly weaker. Its not impossible, but would be a penalty of one or the other.

alternately: steel armour, heated to a glow, and then scrubbed with brass brushes would end up with a brass layer - "brazen" - slightly darker, more akin to a deep bronze colour, that wouldnt be polished up to a fine lustre. It could also be trimmed with brass, making the rivet heads, the edges of every plate, the buckles, all brass, and shining that way. Combine the two you could have armour that performs equally well, and looks a deep brass, highlighted with bright polished brass edging. Perfectly possible.

Doing the surface layer to a blade would be exceptionally difficult (it would fuck up the hardness of a blade), but possible that hilt components could be made, blades could be inlaid with brass, or, if they go for a single-edged sword, it might be possible for the spine of the blade to be made from brass, soldered onto the steel and then decorated with punch, graver and file details. here's a pic of a knife found in Ireland, with such a brass spine on it:

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>>53579236

>>53579316
>alternately: steel armour, heated to a glow, and then scrubbed with brass brushes would end up with a brass layer - "brazen" - slightly darker, more akin to a deep bronze colour, that wouldnt be polished up to a fine lustre. It could also be trimmed with brass, making the rivet heads, the edges of every plate, the buckles, all brass, and shining that way. Combine the two you could have armour that performs equally well, and looks a deep brass, highlighted with bright polished brass edging. Perfectly possible.
This is very good. Thanks.

>>53572731
Brass would make for good armor and a decent bludgeoning weapon, but it doesn't hold an edge well.

>>53575586
if you take a block of either metal and hammer it with your fist, they will react exactly the same way. if you use your face they will likewise behave the same way.
make your own video. please.

>>53578756
>having a damage penalty is "interesting mechanics and good storytelling"
>it's the people arguing that having interesting fluff is more important than being anal about the specific properties of a sword that are obsessed with crunch

This is the mind of a /pol/ack.

>>53579054
I think "penalize" is kind of far from being a tone-neutral word here. Dwarves will obviously have disadvantages compared to other races, but there would also be advantages to playing them. Personally, this is how I would do it:

>Reach disadvantage
>Lighter bodies
>Faction bonus to dwarves and dwarven allies
>Faction penalty to dwarven foes

And everything else is dependent on the setting. But those 4 things are generally universal stats.


>>53579075
I fence and play with boffer weapons (foam weapons), and generally speaking, left handed opponents ARE confusing to deal with, but with practice, you gain some slight intuition in how they think and conduct themselves in a match. Guy I fence with is a fucking beast and he wrecked my shit for a few hours before I kind of got a good angle on his tactics. From that point on, I think he either got tired or he wasn't able to adapt, and I ended up kicking his ass for the rest of the day. Now we're fairly evenly matched after a year of practicing together, and the toss up goes either way, with a very slight advantage to him that I'd go so far as to say it's "insignificant".

In boffer, the only left handed guy is a literal DYEL manlet, and I kicked his ass so thoroughly his left handedness was practically a non-issue to me.

Basically what I'm saying is, I compare speed, dexterity, experience, strength, perception, and all these other attributes before I'd consider left-handedness into the attack. Interesting point though. Now that you mention it, I've never once used a mechanic to define left-handedness, but if the situation arises, I should definitely prepare a mechanism to measure its contributions to a character's fighting prowess.

>>53572731
a little penalty

brass is sub-optimal for application in tools of war and protective gear, but if a player wants to have it for roleplay reasons, dont apply a penalty higher than -10% damage/ defense

If you don't measure out particular weapons, including those of the same kind, down to at least the centimeter and don't have a system granular enough to support it, you're forgoing interesting mechanics and good storytelling.

>but it's all abstracted in the attack rolls and damage rolls
Are you telling me all swords in your setting are exactly the same in size, width, and length? If not, then you need to account for that mechanically. Why even say these things are different if it won't count in the mechanics?

>>53579548
I'm not the one saying damage should be penalized, you cuck. I've never said that from the very beginning. In fact, I was one of the first ones to point out there would be very little real world damage penalties in the first place.

And no, it's not being any more "anal" than it is good worldbuilding, you double cuck.

"The Brass Knight swung his longsword at the savage, who was promptly cleaved in half and toppled to the floor in pieces. Frowning, the Brass Knight held his blade up to the sun and furrowed his brows.

"Gonna have to get that bit molded out" he said with a sigh.

Indeed, there were sacrifices to be made if one was to be known as 'The Brass Knight'. Already, he felt as if he'd spent a fortune on repairs and maintenance; not just on gold, but on effort and time-- a labor of love, he'd considered it..."

See? See that? Was that anal? No. Was that "fluff"? Yes. I presented the brass knight as just that; a brass knight, with all that that implies. You can have interesting fluff, and still present it in a realistic way too. It's like how Michael Chricton always adds these highly researched intricate details into his settings because he knows they have a lot to offer to his new world. Good storytelling is good worldbuilding, and that means attention to detail.

>>53579857

>See? See that? Was that anal?

It rather was.

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>>53579857
Look at this fucker thinking he's Joyce or Melville or something, or that anyone will treat your dumb sharpening or fragility crap as anything more than a hindrance, or perhaps as an indicator of your creeping autism.

>>53579499
>hammer it with your fist,
Are you retarded? It's hammer with a hammer, to test endurance you know?

>>53579567
>I fence and play with boffer weapons (foam weapons

kek

how do you think your opinion is even relevant

I can just see it now. The Brass Knight, in all his splendor, and his personal motto:

>Wait, hold up guys, let's take an hour long break so I can whip out my whetstone.

And this will happen after every single encounter. But hey, that's interesting mechanics and good storytelling, right?

>>53579660
>Are you telling me all swords in your setting are exactly the same in size, width, and length? If not, then you need to account for that mechanically.
That's why we have longswords, shortswords, broadswords, greatswords, claymores, bastard swords, scimitars, etc.

>>53580058
>But hey, that's interesting mechanics and good storytelling, right?
Yes. I mean, didn't you hear about the Paper Knight? They say he doesn't get out when it rains.

>>53580099
And in these wide, abstract categories, particular examples are different sizes and therefore have their specific properties accounted for by a sufficiently granular system, correct? You can't tell.me that literally every steel longsword no matter what does 1d8 damage, that's just not realistic.

>>53580147
>anon gets BTFO
>tries again
Sure anon! This is why we have the quality system, which carefully avaliates if the weapon is on the correct properties according to this class.

A perfect weapon, like the best of best is know as a masterwork, did you know that?

>>53580200
So all you have is standard and masterwork? That's hardly granular enough. What about the several grams of weight and a additional reach on a slightly longer than average but not quite perfectly forged weapon, why is this not accounted for?

>didn't read that particular weapons even of the same kind have different particular properties

>>53579954
Fuck a duck. I've got your indicator of autism right here, pal.


>>53580099
Greatsword, longsword, bastard sword, arming sword, scimitar, katana, etc.

Longswords, broadswords, claymores, and greatswords are all redundant names for incorrectly identified swords. I've also renamed shortswords into arming swords, because I feel like that's what you were trying to say.

>>53580295
>Fuck a duck. I've got your indicator of autism right here, pal.

Wait...how is he autistic? Being unconcerned with trivial details seems to be the opposite of that.

That and your writing was really pretentious.

>>53580265
>anon get BTFO again
>maybe third time is a charm
Ah yes, if you weapon is different from the average flunctuation it can also be considered poor. Usually made by new and inexperience blacksmiths.

You don't have to worry through, weapons are made with standard molds by class, used by very precise blacksmiths who produce them in standard parameters. Buy in approved shops and it's fine. :^)

>>53580328
No, because in real life, people would ask questions. Think of all the movies and books and shit that have ever been written, and think of all the plot holes that the fans have always pointed out. Even to this day, people ask "Why didn't the eagles just fly the Hobbits to Mordor?"

That's what's going to happen if you make a Brass Knight with no further explanation or without additional details going in to how he spends his time maintaining his armor and how a good chunk of his gold goes into repairs and shit.

And I'm not a writer, you triple cuck. I was putting into example how one could address the issue of brass weapons while also presenting a dynamic, linear story that didn't suffer from the addition of detail.

>>53580420
Man /pol/, you sure are bad at this whole tabletop thing.

>>53580420

>Even to this day, people ask "Why didn't the eagles just fly the Hobbits to Mordor?"

That's not a plot hole, that's been covered again and again and again.

The entire point of the mission was that of stealth. Giant flying eagles wouldn't have gotten anywhere while Sauron was about.

The eagles are also sentient beings and the greater the being, the more the ring tempts them. The Eagles are very great beings.

>>53580378
Well, it's a very good thing that all of the particular examples of a kind of weapon in your setting are exactly the same in every way possible so that they can be represented by a single statline, because if any at all were fluffed to be different in any way from the standard and that wasn't account for mechanically, you would be forgoing interesting mechanics and good storytelling.

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>>53580420
>everyone expresses the same autistic concerns I do
Most people are perfectly fine with assuming that weapons and armor are maintained whenever the player characters have downtime, just like how most assume that PCs get their shitting and pissing done offscreen.

>while also presenting a dynamic, linear story that didn't suffer from the addition of detail
Pic related, wannabe Tolkien.

>>53580460
>anon strikes back
Yes anon, we are very proud of our blacksmiths. They are the best. :^)

>>53573597
>Steel is protects much more.
I love when you can see the moment someone gets so mad that it's fucking up their thoughts.

>>53580617
I lost track of who was being facetious.

>>53572731
>8580/7850 = ~110% weight.
>Less prone to corrosion. Discoloration may occur.
>Fares much better around salt water.
>Softer, so much harder to keep sharp.

>>53578987
>Much shorter
It's only 10% heavier, anon. it should be about 9% shorter for the same weight.

Also, 5'4" manlet here. If I was in a fight, I would want a reach weapon or a ranged weapon, because I'd be at a distinct disadvantage against a taller guy with longer arms. Unless I'm very well armored, then I'd want to get in close and shiv him with a stiletto.

>>53580865
SQ cube law. I think you mean ~3% shorter. Unless the blade has to be much thicker.

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>>53580634

>>53577357
Smell that folks?

Summer has arrived.

>>53579567
You have to be 18 to be on 4chan, sperglord.