MAKE TYRANIDS GREAT AGAIN ITT we discuss and post 8th editio

File: 40kFFTyranidsSwarmlord.jpg (33KB, 1200x215px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 1200x215px

>>53375562
swarmlord looks really awesome.
finally actually looks scary

Don't count your rippers before they hatch.

Those fucking swarmy stats though jesus dick

>>53375657
From this I guess we can assume the toughness value of most monstrous creatures isnt changing but they might gain more wounds to counter the abundance of weapons that deal multiple wounds.

>>53375657
now IF ONLY he had a cool fluff and a really unique model...

File: Hivefleet.jpg (226KB, 1150x861px) Image search: [Google]

226KB, 1150x861px

>>53375660
stealers getting 5++ and 8M is pretty huge too.
i bet almost all the nids units will get 8M.
fexes and such wont tho

>>53375657

I agree except the 12 wounds mean he will be shot to pieces. Can he no longer be targeted when he goes BELOW 11 wounds? Still, charging out of a spore pod with him or running him with some carni's should be great fun.

>>53375722
They said Feces were faster than they were, so it's gonna be 7+ or have the same advance and charge thing.

Zoanthropes are the only thing I could see staying slow

File: 1382607108590.jpg (228KB, 448x675px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 448x675px

>>53375700
yeah i have always assumed that MCs would have 8-12 wounds

>>53375710
i really like his fluff, one of the few thigns i have genuinely enjoyed in the latest editions. a millions of years old super nid with extra galactic crystal swords and psychic powers. and you can never kill it, because its mid just gets absorbed back into the hive mind and they regrow his body.

the whole nemisis match with magnus calgar is sweet as fuck.

everythign about him was awesome in fluff but the latest rules for him have been miserable dogshit and a real let down.

>>53375815
hive guard, tyrant guard, trygons, tyrannofex, biovores, thropes staying at 6 for sure

>>53375815
I could see Biovores staying the same or even ending up with less speed (and a corresponding buff/cost reduction because of it)

>>53375866
>>53376065
I guess I should have said I could see thropes getting slower, but those are good points.

Trygons I expect to be faster though, since they're giant fucking snake monsters the size of nauts

>>53375821
> a millions of years old super nid with extra galactic crystal swords and psychic powers. and you can never kill it, because its mid just gets absorbed back into the hive mind and they regrow his body.
>one of the few thigns i have genuinely enjoyed in the latest editions
what the fuck is wrong with you?
it literally sounds like something a 10-yo made up

File: disapproval turtle.png (33KB, 545x500px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 545x500px

>>53375821

>>53376185
>nauts

so orkz have nobz in a naut
do we have jeans in a snek?

>5 or 6 attacks
>wounding with maybe 3 or 4
>only getting 2-3 past armor

Wow so OP.

>>53376270
>>53376464
>badwrongfun
You are coming here for great writing, some of us want fun fluff to go with our dudes.
Infinity has it's own general.
>nidfags complained for years about warriors, demanding they be made T5 because muh ID
>never demanded ID to be removed from the game because it benefitted them to keep it
>warriors are still t4, w3
>ID is gone
>still bitching

>53377402
>7 attacks, wounding on 2s on anything T4 or less, 3s on T5-7, with an AP-4 weapon
No, you are just a faggot.
You probably went on with your faggotry to get the thread bumped thinking hurr ill trol that will work! But you are still a faggot.

>>53376270
>it literally sounds like something a 10-yo made up

You mean like the entirety of 40k?

>>53375821
>i really like his fluff, one of the few thigns i have genuinely enjoyed in the latest editions. a millions of years old super nid with extra galactic crystal swords and psychic powers. and you can never kill it, because its mid just gets absorbed back into the hive mind and they regrow his body.

He's not millions of years old and it doesn't have a body that gets regrown. It's a different swarmlord every time, the hive mind just dumps resources into an extra high performance Tyrant and gives it access to memories and intelligence they don't normally have. It's not a Tyranid Pheonix lord. It remembers its past lives because the hive mind remembers its past lives and selectively restores useful information into the new body.

>>53375728
Tyrant Guards.

>>53375562
I always fielded Swarmy because I liked his fluff and now I have a reason to show off the custom base I bought for him.

>>53377429
>never demanded ID to be removed from the game because it benefitted them to keep it
Wtf where do nids get to exploit ID?

>>53375722
>fexes and such wont tho
You're right, fexes get 9" judging by Swarmy and the fact that they confirmed all Tyranid MCs are faster in the live Q&A

>>53375866
>trygons, tyrannofex
Those are probably getting faster. Trygons especially should since they're giant versions of Raveners.

>guard, thropes, biovores
They'll either stay at 6" or drop lower

Will be interesting if Thropes get the Fly keyword.

>>53377429
>>nidfags complained for years about warriors, demanding they be made T5 because muh ID
Or maybe because they were, you know, originally toughness 5

>>53377609
A bunch of what you said contradicts the shit fluff that crud wrote for him. But even then it still doesn't make sense with how nids work.

That said, I've given up on caring about the lore in 8th. I'll just write my own and use the swarmlord crunch with a proxy model that looks better, probably run him with talons instead of boneswords.

>>53375866
ALL Tyranid MCs are getting faster.

>>53375728
>I agree except the 12 wounds mean he will be shot to pieces.
More than twice as many as before.

>Can he no longer be targeted when he goes BELOW 11 wounds?
No it only counts the amount in the profile

But, Tyrant Guard exist, he has a 5++ save at all times, he can cast Catalyst on himself for stacking 5+++, and he'll probably be in combat by turn 2 at the latest.

>>53377780
>A bunch of what you said contradicts the shit fluff that crud wrote for him. But even then it still doesn't make sense with how nids work.

That's the benefit of when the fluff contradicts itself, like it does in this case. You can just pick what you like and abandon the stupid shit under the assumption that in the next edition they'll paste over the bad writing. Old one eye used to be special but became a strain, same with every other Tyranid special character, and they have mentioned the swarmlord as a strain of tyrant in places. The tyranid pheonix lord crap totally contradicts every other aspect of Tyranid fluff. Like, the swarmy is NOT important enough for that kind of treatment. It's a tyrant, tyrants are not that big or special to the swarm. They do not represent that big of an investment of resources. One hive ship has hundreds of them and there are larger and more powerful creatures that lead the swarm when needed.

Am I the only one hoping for more adaptation and options in how you can build your army?

I loved that old rumor that said what biomorphs you gave your warlord Hive Tyrant gave you different options. Like wings making Gargoyles a troops choice

>>53377832
>More than twice as many as before.

Yeah but lascanons average 3.5 times as many wounds as they did before. He dies faster under the new rules, especally with how much weaker psychic powers are probably about to become.

But it's all down to points and we have no idea how many points a 10+ wound IC is going to be in a system where they're giant targets.

>But, Tyrant Guard exist, he has a 5++ save at all times, he can cast Catalyst on himself for stacking 5+++, and he'll probably be in combat by turn 2 at the latest.

We don't actually know the rules for Tyrant Guard, and without Catalyst it takes 9.2 marine lascanon shots to kill him. That's a pretty easy number to scrounge up over two turns in any gunline. Whether or not he's worth it comes down to his cost and whether or not he can do something before going down.

>>53377910
>the swarmy is NOT important enough for that kind of treatment.
actually the codex seems to imply it's a treatment all tyrants get, who knows maybe all tyranids with a brain power big enough to be somewhat self conscious get it.

>>53378015
>We don't actually know the rules for Tyrant Guard
You can't honestly believe that they wont be Guarding Tyrants in some capacity.

>>53378015
Assuming that people still make the same kind of counterlists they used to. You can't bring a bunch of lascannons to a split list; being able to drop a handful of MCs means shit if hormagaunts are swamping your lines and that trygon with genestealer brood is now in your backline. This is ignoring how your example depends on there being no other more dangerous/priority targets for those lascannons in the same list as the swarmlord.

>>53377678
As someone who's been playing nids since 4th edition, I can't think of any occasions where I could count on ID

>>53378015
You forget he also has a 5+ invul out of combat now. While not the end all be all of things, it does help.

I can't wait to see what they do with the Venomthrope. -2 BS to models shooting at units covered by the cloud would be great.

>>53378015
>We don't actually know the rules for Tyrant Guard
We do, though, they mentioned in the live Q&A that a Tyrant standing within x" just pushes all its Wounds off on them automatically.

>>53378069
If we take the SW:A kill team descriptors to be canon then Warriors get to respawn.

>>53378141
Did they mention how many wounds they have?

>>53378015
>We don't actually know the rules for Tyrant Guard,

We know all retinue units make character impossible to target if near them.

> without Catalyst it takes 9.2 marine lascanon shots to kill him

I don't really know your math, but each lascannon hits does

1/3*2/3*2*3.5= 1.555 wounds

Which means you need 7.7 hits or 11.5 shots, or 17,3 if you cast cathalist.

Also Hive Commander means the he either gets into combat round 1 or he gives very huge speed boost to your army until himself get into combat.

>>53378156
Nah

>>53378094
>Sure, but they're probably a huge points investment (again) that will slow the unit down (again) in order to protect it from shooting.

Swarmy + tyrant guard was like 500 points before and that was not 130 points better than a knight. It all comes down to if GW has figured out how much things should actually cost.

>>53378095
>Assuming that people still make the same kind of counterlists they used to. You can't bring a bunch of lascannons to a split list; being able to drop a handful of MCs means shit if hormagaunts are swamping your lines and that trygon with genestealer brood is now in your backline. This is ignoring how your example depends on there being no other more dangerous/priority targets for those lascannons in the same list as the swarmlord.

A regular landraider has 4 lascanons now. A raider and a tac squad kills a swarmy in two turns.

>>53378110
>You forget he also has a 5+ invul out of combat now. While not the end all be all of things, it does help.

That was in my calculation. 9.2 lascanons averages 32.2 wounds if you don't need any other rolls.

>>53378209
>That was in my calculation. 9.2 lascanons averages 32.2 wounds if you don't need any other rolls.
What the fuck math are you doing??

9 Lascannons
6 hits
4 Wounds
2.6 failed invuln saves
avg 9.3 damage

????

>>53378170
Sure, but people were talking about it's toughness, as a 10+ wound IC. We know how tough knights are now, and they were like 120 points more than the swarmy in 7th. Outside of a massive cost restructuring (which I am very much hoping for) He isn't remotely as tough as a knight given these rules. He's probably not going to be a particularly tough unit for his cost, he'll have to make it up by being effective in other ways.

>>53378262
does str 9 wound t6 on a 3+ in the new edition?

>>53378307
Yes, you only Wound on a 2+ if the Strength is double or more than the Toughness.

>>53378307
Yes you need double toughness to wound on a 2+ now

>>53378209
>A regular landraider has 4 lascanons now. A raider and a tac squad kills a swarmy in two turns.
Yes, assuming absolutely clear los and the nid player lets it sit there in the open.
Your mathhammer isn't actually working out here.

>>53378277
Knights are PL 23. the Swarmlord is PL 15

File: Emperor_of_Mankind_by_genzoman.jpg (251KB, 734x950px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 734x950px

>>53378329
What do the previews say his power level is?

>>53378318
>>53378315
Welp, that's probably where some of my strange math came in.

It's still not much different, though. It's really not going to be hard to scrounge up a significant number of wounds against ol' swarmy and with his old point cost he's still an enormous cost investment if you give him guard.

>>53378329
>Knights are PL 23. the Swarmlord is PL 15

A knight is more than twice as tough with t8, a better save, and 23 wounds but only costs about 50% more with PL.

>Yes, assuming absolutely clear los and the nid player lets it sit there in the open.
Your mathhammer isn't actually working out here.

It's working fine, you were all creaming yourselves over how tough a unit that is LESS tough than before became. Like, yeah, he has more wounds, and all the things shooting at him do 3 or more times as much damage while the wound table made it so that things like heavy bolters are an order of magnitude more effective against him.

File: swarmlord.png (220KB, 814x886px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 814x886px

>>53377910
DAILY REMINDER
NEVER TRUST A NIGGER ON /TG/ TO CORRECTLY RECOUNT THE FLUFF OF 40K WITHOUT A SCREENCAP OF THE SOURCE.

90% OF /TG/ ARE LITERAL RETARDS. THEIR ABILITY TO EXTRACT AND INTERPRET INFORMATION FROM THE BOOKS IS LITERAL NIGGER TIER.

post your source or stfu

>>53378390
>It's working fine, you were all creaming yourselves over how tough a unit that is LESS tough than before became.
No. Before it took 9 Lascannons to kill him. Now it takes 12, AND he is guaranteed access to Catalyst, and he can charge into combat turn 1.

>>53378390
>A knight is more than twice as tough with t8, a better save, and 23 wounds but only costs about 50% more with PL.
It's almost as if the Swarmlord is also a psyker and a commander as well as being tough and killy.

>>53378390
I think you should stop talking out of your ass.

>a better save
A Knight has a 3+ and a 5++ against shooting.
The Swarmlord it's the same but he has also a 4++ in close combat.

>a unit that is LESS tough than before

He gained a 5++ against shooting, He is now wounded on a 3+ by S8, S9, S10 and S11 weapons.

>things like heavy bolters are an order of magnitude more effective against him

Heavy bolters wounded him on a 5+ before and wound him on a 5+ now. Only S4 now wound him on a 5+ instead of a 6+, but guess what, they wound him twice as often but he has more than twice the wounds. So it's still more durable. Before you needed 45 Heavy bolters hit to kill him. Now you need 72.

In the end, what the fuck are you smoking?

>>53378503
This. Swarmlord is a huge force multiplier.

Honestly I just hope regular Hive Tyrants are as good at all the non-combat roles.

>>53378503
Hive Commander alone is so good that the Swarmlord would probably be worth his points just using it two or three times without ever reaching combat.

>>53378437
It literally says it right there. It dies, the swarm remembers its memories, and when a battle is kinda tough it just pops out a new body and stuffs in some old memories.

It doesn't say it has a soul or any sort of continuous existence you retard. It says it dies and new ones get old memories stuffed into them. Which, fun fact, happens to pretty much every tyranid with the capacity for memory when the swarm deems knowledge is useful enough to build or load into something. It's not sitting there in the warp waiting to get reborn, it hasn't expressed any sort of actual personality that gets maintained, its existence isn't built into any sort of item or other thing, and when the battle is over they just fucking eat it and turn it back into biomass.

It's just like every other tyranid except they load some old memories into it. Something they do for pretty much every fucking node. It's not agent smith.

>>53378587
This is what worries me. I don't want to be forced to run this fanfiction tier asshole just for his ability. I better be able to do the same thing with Hive Tyrants.

>>53378611
>fanfiction tier
Nice meme.

>>53378655
>Cruddace's fluff
>anything more than bad fanfic quality
Sometimes anon, the memes are memes for a good reason.

>>53375562
I got a bunch of old full metal tyranid models. Might bust em out and buy some lictors. Love lictors

managers got a briefing today

preorders for 8th is the 3rd of june, 2 weeks preorder. release on 17th

rulebook is 60$ (yes, it still costs money) and its the same as in the new starter box that replaces dark vengeance.

the 5 faction books are like most guessed allready
spacemarines
imperial forces
chaos
2 xenos books.

>>53378550
>A Knight has a 3+ and a 5++ against shooting.
The Swarmlord it's the same but he has also a 4++ in close combat.

Neato, its still a toughness higher 1 wound short of double, and only 50% more in cost. Are you arguing its NOT tougher per point? Or is this just aspergers at work? What the fuck are you saying here?

>He gained a 5++ against shooting, He is now wounded on a 3+ by S8, S9, S10 and S11 weapons.

And a 5+ by almost every infantry based shooting weapon in the game while guns that previously would have given him his full save (like heavy bolters, of which the previously mentioned land raider has two) significantly reduce that save.

It's as if the game changed and suddenly guns he was immune too rip him a new one while guns he was vulnerable too remain almost unchanged!

>Heavy bolters wounded him on a 5+ before and wound him on a 5+ now. Only S4 now wound him on a 5+ instead of a 6+, but guess what, they wound him twice as often but he has more than twice the wounds. So it's still more durable. Before you needed 45 Heavy bolters hit to kill him. Now you need 72.

I am smoking armor modifiers and the change to twin linking. You know what heavy bolters people actually took? Only twin linked ones. Every fucking vehicle was sporting twin linked ones. Every walker. Pretty much everything. Your save is half as good against them and they fire twice as many shots while the new heavy weapon movement rules mean units can position them better while the change to vehicle platforms means they're going to shoot every turn until they die instead of like twice ever.

I am not saying the thing isn't going to be worth it, I am saying it's going to be expensive to keep alive. Which it is.

>>53378748
>Your save is half as good against them
Oh my god why are you so fucking bad at math

>and they fire twice as many shots
But also lose the bonus to hit, and still cost more points than non-twin-linked.

>>53378741
>2 xenos books.
Are xenos clumped together now?

>>53375562
The only thing that 'nids need to make them viable is the same thing all MCs need. A natural invul save equal to their armor save - only the nid MCs would get it, if that wasn't clear.

File: swarmlord.png (301KB, 1839x886px) Image search: [Google]

301KB, 1839x886px

>>53378601
>>53377910
>>53377609
>He's not millions of years old
> it doesn't have a body that gets regrown.
> It's a different swarmlord every time,

you are a dumb fuck nigger.

>>53378837
some are, there will still be faction specific codex releases later on in the year.

>>53378837
The books aren't necessarily alliances, if that's what you're asking. Alliances require a shared keyword and there is no "Xenos" keyword.

>>53378748
>Are you arguing its NOT tougher per point? Or is this just aspergers at work? What the fuck are you saying here?

I'm saying many of your points are wrong. In this case, a Knight being more thought doesn't change that he has a save equal or worse to the Swarmlord, while you said he has a better save. Ergo, you are wrong.

>It's as if the game changed and suddenly guns he was immune too rip him a new one while guns he was vulnerable too remain almost unchanged!

Bolters hits to kill him before: 90
Bolter hits to kill him now: 108

Heavy Bolter hits to kill him before: 45
Heavy Bolter hits to kill him now: 72

Lascannon hits to kill him before: 6
Lascannon hits to kill him now: 7.7

He's more durable against literally everything.

>I am smoking armor modifiers

See the math over that account for armor modifiers. Still better.

>the change to twin linking.

Are you so much retarded that you believe that twin linked guns that doubled their shots are going to cost like before?

You are continuing to say wrong things, and move the goalpost to say things that are still wrong.

Your point was that the Swarmlord is less durable than before. Which is objectively and mathematically false.

Your new point is that new rules will force a change in the meta so that some weapons will be taken much more. Which is not a point as we don't know point costs, and without point costs trying to image the prevalence of twin linked heavy bolters in people army lists is extremely stupid.

Stop embarassing yourself.

>>53378973
most of /tg/ is retarded

>>53378850
not the other anon

But this argument will pointlessly boil down to establishing whether a clone that gets an innested consciousness is the same as a mind regrowing its body and wondering whether the "creature as old as the tyranid race" is this continued consciousness for the purpose of outhinking the enemy or the whole 4 armed giant tyrant bodyshape.

Firstly, what's even the difference between a consciousness that regrows a body and a body getting a consciousness? how can we confirm the most likely hypothesis in the case of the second?

speaking of swarmlord fluff, I seem to remember a bit where he spawns with a different body (generally a taller body against the elves) and some double spawning battling on numerous worlds at the same time, but I'm not sure about the source of the second.

>>53379060
Most of everywhere is retarded.

File: definate article.png (67KB, 1867x657px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 1867x657px

>>53379062
no it does not.
the entire swarmlord entry uses a definite article to describe him.

File: definate article.png (113KB, 1867x657px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1867x657px

>>53379062
>>53379177
and to drive the point home even harder

>>53379177
>>53379248
Yes the swarmlord fluff is terrible and impossible given the rest of tyranid fluff, this isn't news

>>53379248
>>53379177
Well fuck me, the king of any kingdom has always been the same person since the dawn of monarchy then.

>>53379177
>>53379248
Didn't quite catch that anon, what kind of article is it?

>>53378153
>>53378069
Obviously the Hive Mind has adapted to this strange galaxy of larger-than-life heroes or it's a side effect of the Octarian War and all those damn Orks thinking 'didn't I fight that one before? Must be the same one!'

>>53379360
This is my new canon.

>>53377609
Its the same consciousness in a different body, so whether it is the same organism is a matter of samantics. And he is millions of years old.

>>53379248
Or maaaaybe it's a single role in the swarm, have you thought about that carcan-kun? or does the fact that this idea doesn't irate as much that single anon that hates everything cruddace with a blind passion present in every thread about the swarmlord enough to turn you off on it?

>>53379439
>that single anon that hates everything cruddace with a blind passion
You mean... every Tyranid player who was around before cruddace ruined them?

>>53379402
>matter of samantics.

it didn't stop this retardation
>>53379248
>>53378850

>>53379463
No, I mean (you)

Most people either ignore, accept or have compromises about what they have found

You continously refuse to accept even those and go as far as warping the actual truth to fit your vision of doom and gloom about everything that even sorrounds the work plagued by the hand of cruddace

>>53379511
Literally what

I've posted like three times in this thread and only about mathhammer.

>>53379511
Are you confusing the other anon with carnac? Carnac is the shitposter who posts Cruds face all the time

>>53379468
>it didn't stop this retardation
why is it retarded? it makes sense to me.
swarm lord is a single mind within the tyranid swarm, and he is very old, and his mind gets slurpied up into a new body everytime his old body is killed.

seems exactly like what the writer was trying for in the writings. the idea that their are multiple swarmlords doesnt make sense from the feel of the writings, and it doesnt make sense from the actual arguments either.

>>53379177
>>53379248
>>53378850
>>53378437
is correct

>>53377429
>he's strong and you can't kill him also he has four swords
>fun fluff
Jesus fucking christ.

Even Marneus fucking Calgar has more creative and interesting fluff than this.

>>53379367
When in doubt, blame the Orks.

>>53378748
The new twin weapons are not double the effect of the old weapons as twin weapons lose the ability to reroll for the advantage of double shots. They are about as good as they were.

>>53377524
No, I mean like only the worst parts of 40k.
Most 40k stuff is at least on a 14 y-o's level.

>>53379570
This. The Swarmlord was the worst thing to happen in Tyranid fluff since... well, most of the other garbage that happened in their fluff starting with the abominably shit 5th edition Codex.

>>53379577
No, they ARE better. You're correct that they're not twice as good - the overall average is still close to the same - but they've got a much higher maximum.

They didn't go into enough detail. They said Warriors are going to be really survivable at T4 with 3 wounds, but from what I can tell that's just going to be slightly better than what they currently are, and I don't play nids but I do hear them complain about Warriors. It's all going to hinge on their points cost.

File: tyranidorkbattle.jpg (172KB, 1173x881px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 1173x881px

>>53379645
but the 5th ed codex had the octarius war. that was pretty fun. also spawned one of the best nids artworks ever

>>53379645
The swarm lord is a tactical genius and the best character in 40k fluff. The avatar of khaine challenged him to a duel and he just got a load to carnifexes to shoot him. He is fucking amazing. He gives no quarter and expects none in return. (Swarmgasm intensifies)

File: tyranid_swarmlord_artwork_by_zergwing-d7803lg.jpg (100KB, 478x657px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 478x657px

Different Anon here, I'ma be completely honest, I too think that the swarmolrd fluff is absolute BS.

HOWEVER. I love fielding my swarmlord model (I usually proxy it as my own hive tyrant) because he looks freakin' awesome. Goddamn tyranid general grievous.

Also, because pic related is what really got me into tyranids as my first army. I was just flipping through the codex, hadn't really read any fluff, didn't know anything about tyranids than "muh sphees bugz", and then boom, I look at that picture and I go "FUCK THAT LOOKS COOL I WANNA BUILD/PAINT/PLAY THAT". When I read the fluff I was like "Meeeeh....." but then I looked back at pic related and said "screw it, tyranids > chaoscuck space muhrines"

>>53379672
Right...
I said they were about as good. I agree entirely with you. My point is that people overreact to the new twin weapons being super powerful.>>53379672

>>53379709
Wait, when I read the fluff it was a generic Hive Tyrant. It was retconned to be the Swarmlord?

>>53379687
That art is out of the 6th edition Codex.

Also the Octarius War fluff was terrible, it was like:
>unspeakably massive tendril of the largest nid hive fleet to date
>got ambushed by some ork kroozers hiding in asteroids (because hive ships getting ambushed is a thing that has ever happened in the fluff, it's not like tyranids are known for having the sharpest senses of all the factions) and somehow wiped them all out in a single line of throwaway text, despite the climactic battle of the Imperial Navy vs Behemoth being a massive point in the previous fluff and requiring the sacrifice of thousands of ships and the sacrificial detonation of the warp drives on an irreplaceable old and valuable super-battleship
>tyranid hive ship crashes on ghorala, goes on to describe a bunch of tiny skirmish battles ending in one ork getting assassinated, somehow this was the entire ghorala campaign
>no mention of shit going on elsewhere on the planet, different war fronts, different continents, what an epic global war of Tyranids and Orks SHOULD look like
It was hot fucking garbage

File: 1378866991278.gif (1MB, 401x409px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 401x409px

>>53379721
>I too think that the swarmolrd fluff is absolute BS.
why?

>>53379687
That artwork wasn't in the 5th ed codex
the Octarius war was already mentioned in the 4th ed codex

and "pretty fun" doesn't cut it, when it's at the cost of making nids less scary

>>53379760
It was retconned to be a hive tyrant originally being swarms Mc lordson.

>>53379709
That Tyrant wasn't even originally the swarmlord, it was the Devourer of Hope which was a different Tyrant entirely.

Getting rid of all these other special one-shot nid characters and retconning them into being the swurmlurd is so fucking retarded and shrinks the lore and the galaxy, makes everything feel smaller and less epic, and gets boring and repetitive as hell. Not to mention that no one Tyranid organism is supposed to be or needs to be a "tactical genius", they're all just various bodies of the Hive Mind which is a tactical genius. Even if that Tyrant died, just the Warriors on the battlefield are supposed to be capable of the exact same thing, because one brain out of billions is a drop in the bucket.

>>53379672
Hitting on 3+ a 3 shot twin linked weapon has gone from 2.67 to 4 hits on average, on 4+ it's gone from 2.25 to 3. The overall average has definitely not remained the same.

>>53379767
>when it's at the cost of making nids less scary
but the nids won the octarius war. they came back from being almost dead to shit kicking billions of orks and rebuilding their corpses.

basically we learned the nids hard counter orks.
thats pretty scary

>>53379760
Yes it was. Why the Swarmlord was functionally invincible for that one battle and never before or after isn't even touched upon.

>>53379818
>>53379709
Anon, just stop. It's clear you're either baiting or you're actually a newfag who started with that hideously bad 5e codex and has never read actual tyranid fluff from the creators of the tyranids.

>>53379801
No, some tyranids actually operate independently from the hive mind. This is why they can be better then others at strategy. When behemoth invaded macragge for example, the tyranids rapidly changed tactics when the swarm lord entered the battle due to his immense battlefield knowledge. The hive mind is not of one mind but countless individuals.

>>53379837
>some tyranids actually operate independently from the hive mind
Yes, but not when they're in synapse range. And that shit about

>When behemoth invaded macragge for example, the tyranids rapidly changed tactics when the swarm lord entered the battle due to his immense battlefield knowledge
Was more of the garbage 5e stuff that was added in when the swarmlord was retconned into existence by a shit writer.

>>53379835
That's two different anons you newfag. I know because I'm one of them.

>>53379835
1) you are quoting different people
2) i started in 3rd ed nids

i like the fluff of the post 4th editions, but i hate the rules. those are 2 different things.

>>53379876
The fluff AND the rules both took sharp downturns post 4th edition for the most part. There are occasional spots of good fluff in the later codices but they are exceptions, not the rule, and none of them have anything to do with the swarmlord.

>>53379766
Because it's lazy and underwhelming as fuck, on top of undermining the "faceless horde" theme of nids.

See the thing about nid special characters is that they're cool in a "white whale" sort of way. to the Hive Mind, they're just a random mutation or a prototype.To their foes, those nids are the stuff of legend, and it's that discrepancy that makes them cooler, and reinforces the themes of nids being this uncaring alien threat to whom heroism means nothing.
The Swarmlord, on the other hand, is written as a super-villain. It's out-of-character for the Hivemind to create a super-villain. And not even a cool super-villain with a strong personality and resourceful quirks, he's just *better* than other tyrants.
Oh and he has four swords.

See that could sooort of be okay if it was like a running mystery that the fluff hinted at for a decade before giving it rules, but it's so transparently obvious that this lame fluff was crudely slapped on a profile/ruleset, that it just comes off as insulting.

The whole "oh it's just the hivemind harnessing the power of mary-sueness" thing is mostly a cheap excuse to account for how out-of-character the Swarlord's creation is for the Hivemind.

>>53379859
No, tyranids can operate independently while within synapse just like the swarm lord did. And it does not matter if you hate the siege on macragge it still happened and is still cannon.

>>53379905
the point is that it SHOULDN'T be canon

>>53379905
>And it does not matter if you hate the siege on macragge it still happened and is still cannon.
The siege of macragge is fine. It's a thing that existed before nu-writers shat it up with swarmlord bullshit. As far as anyone who read the real lore cares, that part didn't happen. In fact, Marneus Calgar never even landed planetside. Go read Hive War by Andy Chambers (which was fucking excellent by the way) if you want the real story.

>>53379897
>See the thing about nid special characters is that they're cool in a "white whale" sort of way. to the Hive Mind, they're just a random mutation or a prototype.To their foes, those nids are the stuff of legend, and it's that discrepancy that makes them cooler, and reinforces the themes of nids being this uncaring alien threat to whom heroism means nothing.
This.

Old One Eye and Red Terror work because they aren't like recurring characters that keep showing up, they are scary urban legends spread amongst the soldiers who fight Tyranids, born of a single instance of a mutant nid (well, OOEs case might be a little different, but it sort of has actual justification).

>>53379567
>it makes sense to me.

>the definitive article can only mean it is a singular entity, disregard the possibility of it being a singular role
>a consciousness, made of aeons of experience, which means data, can't be replicated to be injected into multiple bodies, because it's completely absurd and unthinkable for a hive mind to share the data between the minds composing it
>multiple swarmlords are impossible because absence of proof is proof of absence

this is why it's all retarded

>>53379926
Accept that old nids are gone and the new nids actually function like this and everything makes sense. Nids should work like that because those are the rules that nids follow now.

>>53379964
Except new nids don't function like that because that would require a rewrite of other parts of nid canon that are still included in their Codexes.

It's not a retcon, it's the writer of current nids being fucking retarded and not even understanding what he's working with while copypasting elements of the true stuff.

>>53375562
>Wade through multiple turns of shooting to reach enemy.
> succeed in charge roll
>Survive multiple overwatch fire
>Get one turn of assault , enemy units can't even be broken/run down.
>enemy unit gets to disengage for free and entire army can shoot you all over again then counter charge you.

Yeah Tyranids are still going to be shit. Glad i sold mine.

>>53379926
>the point is that it SHOULDN'T be canon
says you. i dont care what you think. you probably dont play nids

>>53379928
Real lore? All lore is real in the context of 40k. You mean old lore that has now been replaced. Tyranids do not work like you think they do anymore. What you are doing is the equivalent of saying necrons should not fight chaos because they were originally chaos androids. The real lore is the most recent lore.

>>53379975
Welcome to 40k. You must be new here.
But in all seriousness, what parts are contradicted.

>>53379946
I actually like the fact that those monsters started as "unique" individuals but then became standard monsters. It shows that they where prototypes that passed the test and where made in larger scale. OOE became the Regeneration Biomorph, The Red Terror the Trygon/Mawloc. The Doom of Malantai the Neurothrope.

>>53379994
>>Wade through multiple turns of shooting to reach enemy.
Half their shit will be in combat turn 1, you should probably catch up on the info that's been released.
>> succeed in charge roll
EZ
>>Survive multiple overwatch fire
Considering most weapons got weaker, not a big deal
>>Get one turn of assault , enemy units can't even be broken/run down
In which you will probably wipe most of them anyway and then they have to suffer battleshock, and if you kill them completely you can consolidate into combat
>>enemy unit gets to disengage for free and entire army can shoot you all over again then counter charge you
They can't disengage if they're surrounded, and if you charged half their army to begin with then most of them aren't getting to shoot after they fall back

>>53379996
The bait from the false-flagger faggot is so fucking real.

>>53379964
The new nids are less scary, less cool, and less alien as a result of the new fluff

ergo, the new fluff shouldn't be canon.

Not so much because it contradicts previous fluff, but more because it's just lame.

Same shit with the narwhale FTL retcon.

Before, the hive fleet travelled through the warp with no significant problems, because the Shadow in the Warp shielded them from daemons. Daemons were either scared of nids, or simply didn't want to eat them cause they were too alien.

Now the nids are scared of the warp so they use wormholes or someshit.

That is fucking lame.

Now the collected minds of trillions of nids aren't smart enough to win battles, so the Norn Queens have to go "Oh save us Mister Swarmlord" and then the Swarmlord comes to the rescue with his super-brain that can't be shared by the rest of the hive-mind cause fuck collective consciousness, and he saves the day cause he's a tactical genius who's way smarter than an entire hive fleet.

>>53380001
No one cares about your opinions carnac. You are the laughingstock of 40kg

>>53379994
You can drag other units into combat now and you don't just have the swarmlord. The rest of your army still exists.

>>53380001
and in the nids' case, the new lore is less cool than the older lore. Therefore the new lore should not exist.

>>53380044
This

>>53380043
This is one way to put it.

Another way to put it is, in addition to all of this, the older stuff was also just of a higher quality writing and was made by the same people who made the 40k universe to begin with. On merit and fidelity alone it ranks higher by definition.

File: dealwithitice.gif (2MB, 300x413px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 300x413px

i came here to post that i think the swarm lord is a cool unit and a cool bad guy.

>>53380043
I like my giant scary monsters with character. The hordes are just as ravenous and the swarms are just as lethal. The swarmlord is great because he is a general among monsters backed upon swarms. He brings a terrifying alien intelligence to dumb beasts. He shows that the incredibly vast hordes of tyranids cannot even be outsmarted by the imperium best. He stands for an apocalypse in waiting.

>>53380149
I'm gonna deal with it by calling you a clueless faggot who probably thinks the Star Wars prequels are cool because of darth maul.

>>53380044
Who the fuck is Carnac?

>>53378741
Nigga you stupid. It's 12 pages and the rules are in the back of all the compilations. They hand them out for free in stores.

Someone the other day described the swarmlord as being an extra lumpy bit that doesn't get properly digested by the hive fleet when it sucks everything back up. I quite like that.

>>53380240
Thatsretarded.jpg

>>53380043
Ok, a few things.

For like 20 years the Tyranids literally didn't use the warp. How did they get across the stars? Who the fuck knows, but they didn't use warp travel. They just showed up and don't ask questions.

Then some writers wrote them using the warp sometimes. But then others mentioned they can't use it. Then a lot more mentioned them using it. But they can't use it because it doesn't exist when they're nearby, except it obviously exists because they use it for psychic powers, except they literally make it not exist in old fluff, except that makes no sense because they need it.

It's as if it was badly written.

Then someone comes along and is like "what if we combined the shadow in the warp with wack ass earthquakes and terrible nightmares so that for months before a tyranid attack planets get shut off from help and start suffering apocalyptic occurences while lictors and genestealers start popping out of nowhere and genestealer death cults start preaching the end of the world". And that was a good explanation that pulled all the disparate fluff together and was actually kinda cool.

Then you showed up and wanted to drag us back to the quantum world of tyranids using the warp constantly despite the earlier fluff also saying they literally destroy it with their presence. Do you also want to go back to the old necron fluff of the Ctan being unable to interact with the warp in any possible way and yet they eat fucking souls?

Every description of the swarmlord reminds of zerg cerebrates, he seems to be just an aspect of the hive mind thats given flesh and a level of autonomy, just like the zerg cerebrates.

>>53380199
Yeah but here's the thing: the swarmlord has no character.

He is A character, which, bafflingly, the hive-mind is okay with, but he has no personality.

>He brings a terrifying alien intelligence to dumb beasts.
So every tyranid except him is a dumb beast then? Cause that's what his fluff implies.
>He shows that the incredibly vast hordes of tyranids cannot even be outsmarted by the imperium best.
But he isn't "the incredibly vast hordes of tyranids". He is ONE tyranid who's smarter than everyone else.

His fluff tells us "Oh you though the tyranids were super smart? Nah that was mostly the Swarmlord. When the nids lose it's because the Swarmlord wasn't there to help them. if your army doesn't include him, you're fielding an army of space retards"

>>53380252
Why

>>53380269
The hive mind keeps swarmy on hand for a reason, not accidentally.

>>53380027
>Considering most weapons got weaker, not a big deal

Most weapons did not get weaker, just the retarded min maxed ones a few factions had access too (mostly D). Good luck charging a shoota boy squad with 3 burnas and a combi burna with that hormy squad. A new tyranid swarm line will probably do well against D and psychic power spamming MSU armies from the current competitive scene, but armies won't stay like that.

Which sounds fucking wonderful. Actual in-game counterplay and planning. What a weird concept in 40k.

>>53380255
Read the fucking codices, the tyranids travel through the warp.

And the ambiguous "do nids power come from the warp?" shit came specifically from the 5e codex. The Zoanthrope new fluff, more precisely.

Beforehand it's always been clear that the nids used the warp and that they had no problems with it, BECAUSE the shadow in the warp shields them from bad warp things.

The shadow in the warp has NEVER ever EVER been stated or even remotely implied to destroy the warp.

What the shadow in the warp unambiguously, explicitly, clearly does, is disrupt everyone else's psychic activity.

It's psychic noise generated by the Hive-mind within the warp, because the Hive-mind exists within the warp.

>>53379955

This is all ignoring the fact that aside from the BIG SCARY WRITING OMG HES SO COOL shit the process described is literally identical with every other tyranid. The hive mind records their memories if important and spawns new creatures with new memories or adaptations based on what previous incarnations learned.

Like, the swarmlord is fucking identical to every other tyrant, the process that makes him is exactly the fucking same as the described process for everything else. The swarm has a tough time with something and pops out a counter-organism with abilities and knowledge gathered from billions of previous lifetimes with the intention of having it counter whatever is giving the swarm a hard time.

>>53380266
He is the one tyranid who is smarter than everyone else but not including him does not make your army a bunch of space retards. What makes your army space retards is having no tyranid leader beasts on the field to project synapse.
From what I can gather the swarmlord seems more like a focal point for the hive mind to concentrate more on a certain area of battle so it can exert more control.

>>53380255
>For like 20 years the Tyranids literally didn't use the warp. How did they get across the stars? Who the fuck knows, but they didn't use warp travel. They just showed up and don't ask questions.
This is bullshit anon and you clearly never played 40k or read the lore 20 years ago.

Tyranids basically had one writer, Andy Chambers, for the early editions (2 and 3) they were around for (not counting Rogue Trader because nothing is the same as it was in Rogue Trader, that whole edition and everything about it got retconned). And they used the Warp right from the get-go like everyone else. That's why The Shadow in the Warp is a thing, and why Zoanthropes having a Warp Field and shooting Warp Blasts is a thing. Go read the 2e or 3e Tyranid Codex, or Hive War, or fucking anything from around those periods regarding nids.

Also the Genestealer Cult fluff predated Cruddace retconning the Warp stuff, the nightmares were always part of the Shadow... holy shit like literally every fucking thing in your post is wrong.

>>53377917
I would love this, along with bringing back some of those army wide upgrades that subtly adjusted your swarm from 4th edition.

Is there a single hive mind or one for every hive fleet

>>53380212 <-

>>53380380
That's not what the fluff says about him.
The fluff says that he is smarter. He also happens to have more synaptic range, but the reason why he gets deployed is because he's smarter than everyone else combined.

Which, by comparison, makes the rest of the tyranid race a bunch of retards. Because, let's face it, the Swarmlord has never displayed anything that any of us would call "tactical genius" in the fluff. Which means that if he isn't that smart, then every other nid is a space retard.

>>53380418
One hivemind, many fleets

>>53380342
>Read the fucking codices, the tyranids travel through the warp.

You want me to pull out my 2nd ed codex or the giant pile of white dwarfs this monitor is sitting on? The fluff was contradictory as hell.

>And the ambiguous "do nids power come from the warp?" shit came specifically from the 5e codex. The Zoanthrope new fluff, more precisely.

No, it came from the 2nd ed codex and white dwarfs of the era which insisted SOMETIMES that the tyranids were not a warp faring species and had left their home galaxy billions of years ago and just slept. This gels with the old fluff fact that the warp doesnt exist outside of our galaxy and CANT because there are no organisms between galaxies to actually generate it.

>Beforehand it's always been clear that the nids used the warp and that they had no problems with it, BECAUSE the shadow in the warp shields them from bad warp things.

No, the shadow in the warp was literally a null zone of non-warp similar to what old soul-less organisms would cause because tryanids don't have souls and their minds are so organized and simple that they basically displace everything that the warp required to exist. But then they also used psychic powers and were described as interacting with the warp. The fluff was contradictory a LOT.

>The shadow in the warp has NEVER ever EVER been stated or even remotely implied to destroy the warp.

Except for the parts where it did for like 30 years straight.

>What the shadow in the warp unambiguously, explicitly, clearly does, is disrupt everyone else's psychic activity.

Which it does by bleaching the warp of its actual properties. Moving faster in the warp isn't an inherent property of it, you sometimes move slower or go back in time or just pop out in a different dimension (which is literally how the space sharks turned into charcharadons).

>>53380418
that's one of the few things the 5e fluff clarified: there's just one hive-mind. Which means that even if you completely eradicate a hive-fleet, everything it has learned has also been learned by the other fleet.

File: How-Many-Squares-Answer.jpg (11KB, 356x343px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 356x343px

>>53380418
how many hive minds do you count in the picture?

>>53380442
Holy shit all of this is wrong.

like

ALL OF IT is lies

You took the time to carefully spell out all those blatant lies. Congratulations, you're the king of epic troles.

>>53380442
I'll whip out my 2e Codex right alongside you anon, give me a page number

File: New40kCitiesofDeathSeverRat.jpg (51KB, 700x377px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 700x377px

The new strategem from cityfighting looks dope, spend some command points to let a brood of hromagaunts swarm up out of a sewer, fuckin' cash.

>>53380483
That's a clever explanation, anon. Bravo.

>>53380450
No actually as in the 7e tyranids codes there was a crisis where the imperials had to stop a hive fleet from being consumed by another hive fleet to stop them from learning their weaknesses.

>>53380390
>Tyranids basically had one writer, Andy Chambers, for the early editions (2 and 3) they were around for (not counting Rogue Trader because nothing is the same as it was in Rogue Trader, that whole edition and everything about it got retconned). And they used the Warp right from the get-go like everyone else.

Which I have said like 15 times you blithering idiot. I also said it was contradictory and Andy chambers didn't write HALF the fucking fluff for the Tyranids.

For fucks sake, Andy Chambers wrote the original Ctan fluff where they had literally no interaction with the warp what-so-ever and yet devoured emotions. You expect THAT GUY to be fucking consistent?

>Also the Genestealer Cult fluff predated Cruddace retconning the Warp stuff, the nightmares were always part of the Shadow... holy shit like literally every fucking thing in your post is wrong.

I fucking specifically said it was related to the shadows you product of incest. I said it combined with the apocalyptic weather and death cults to make a COHERENT STORY. Fucking christ I would have to have to talk to you in person, you must be awful.

I like to think about the question as having to do with processing power.

A single warrior or Zoanthrope while being a synapse creature doesn't have much processing power, so even if the Hive Mind could dump into them millennia of tactical skill it wouldn't be useful because they don't have the brain capacity to sort between them efficently. For this reason the Hive Mind uses Tyrants, or, when it need a Synapse Creature that is basically able to sort between ALL of its knowledge, it spawn a Swarmlord.

No idea about how much this is supported, but I like it as an explanation and I'll stick with it until I find something better.

>>53380517
Questionable if it's worth it to spend CP for that instead of spending army points for Tyrannocytes for the same benefit.

>>53380426
They outsmarted the ultramarines. That is tactical genius in action.
Swarmlord= creed level tactician
Hive mind forces= imperial captain
Nids without synapse= animals

>>53380484
ok kiddo, i have the books with me.

>>53380538
Being a stratagem the useful thing is that you decide if you want to use it when deploying.

>>53380538
why would you spend tyrannocytes for hormagunts?
why use the stratagem too for hormagaunts? they can come up with a trygon

>>53380538
True. Probably better off spending the CP on charge rerolls and such. Super fluffy for genestealers though.

>>53380535
it doesn't make much sense, considering that the Hive-Mind occasionally spawns dominatrices and even sometimes norn queens on the ground

is the swarmlord really supposed to be smarter than those?

>>53380566
>Super fluffy for genestealers though.
Why do you think that will not be the general wording for infiltrating units?

>>53380556
Oh yeah good catch, that is pretty handy.

I'm just concerned that so far the standard Detachment seems to only be good for 3CP, we don't know of a lot of ways to get more, and some of these Stratagems cost 2. I would have hoped the average amount of CP each player starts with would be more around 7 or 8.

>>53380574
Norn queens on the GROUND?
Sauce plz

File: beegle bee.png (72KB, 680x514px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 680x514px

>>53380550
me too, I got the pdfs

go ahead and tell me the page numbers

substantiate your claims

>>53380564
>why would you spend tyrannocytes for hormagunts?
>why use the stratagem too for hormagaunts? they can come up with a trygon
Because Trygons are probably going to be super expensive and Tyrannocytes rather cheap.

If I want to charge more than 1 unit from Deep Strike I'm going to take a Trygon and a few tcytes, not 3 Trygons and have barely any points left for the rest of my army.

>>53380574
>is the swarmlord really supposed to be smarter than those?
probably only until GW produces a model for them it has to wank in the lore

>>53380592
I remember an introductory article for a UM vs Nids scenario on the GW website around 2007 that had the UM kill a norn queen that was deployed on the ground

might even have been on Macragge

I haven't rad Hive War but I think it was the source

>>53380592
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dominatrix

Tyranid fluff has always been contradictory and left to the whims of whatever moron was writing it. It's all the fuck over the place.

>>53380606
that makes sense

considering how some units get so fast into combat I wonder if it would be wise to make the trygon a prime to provide a forwards synaptic bubble to move the deep striking wave under control

>>53380625
I shall consult the elders of the internet

>>53380633
yeah no

that article is bullshit, hence the "citation needed"

>>53380584
Infiltrating used to have an 18" distance restriction, and no charges if you infiltrate. But that hadn't occurred to me and makes a lot of sense.

File: 1495083237220.gif (38KB, 400x200px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 400x200px

>>53380023
I guess the parasite of Mortrex didn't make the cut :'(

>>53380594
No, because I don't feel like reading 200 pages then getting into a semantics argument with an old aspie. White dwarfs and other codexes constantly contradicted the 2e codex which was contradicted by the 3e codex which was contradicted by every other codex which was contradicted by the novels.

There is no coherent fluff and we would be shooting page numbers and text snippets at each other angrily until we starved to death because there is so fucking much of it. Old fluff was inconsistent and badly written just like new fluff is inconsistent and badly written. I am not going down that rabbit hole with you mostly because I hate you and it will be an unpleasant experience.

If that makes you win, cool. You won another argument about 30 year old kids books on the internet because, once again, the other guy got tired.

File: ss+(2017-05-23+at+02.11.23).jpg (56KB, 343x312px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 343x312px

>>53380574
Dominatrices are only as smarter as a common Hive Tyrant. And even if you consider them as smart than the Swarmlord there are advantages in having a field commander that is not the size of a BioTitan.

>>53380658
I'm pretty sure the page cites something and you just don't like it but just read the epic manual. IIRC it's in there. But you won't and I won't and no one will because no on fucking cares about the ACTUAL truth of these shitty stories in this convoluted universe. It's just about winning an argument on the internet.

Fuck I am remembering why I stopped going to game stores. This games playerbase is fucking obnoxious.

>>53380677
You aren't tired
you're just lying

if you were tired you wouldn't be typing those long-ass bullshit replies

So I'm not only gonna say that I won, I'm also gonna call you a pussy, a bitch, and a sad little cunt.

>>53375866
Well the swarmlord got 8 movement, would be sorta weird if his body guards couldn't keep up with him.

>>53380709
All the sources of that article are this pic >>53380701

Everything else it says is without source.

>>53380719
it's actually 9"

File: WHAT THE FUCK GOOGLE.png (454KB, 777x662px) Image search: [Google]

454KB, 777x662px

>>53380711
>You aren't tired
>you're just lying

You're like a living embodiment of that spider typing meme. You can't INSIST I am not tired of you're garbage. Are you like this in real life? Do you actually have no sense of when people are just done talking to you?

>if you were tired you wouldn't be typing those long-ass bullshit replies

People get tired of something by doing something. I am tired of long ass replies.

>So I'm not only gonna say that I won, I'm also gonna call you a pussy, a bitch, and a sad little cunt.

lol, ok.

Also, look at this fucking captcha, google why.

>>53380719
The problem with the guards is that since independent characters as a rule doesn't exist anymore, the guards would be a different unit, unable to receive the defensive boon of a catalyst along with the tyrant or keeping up with a double movement or risking to stay behind on a charge

>>53380731
Which it has to do constantly because like 80% of all fluff in 40k comes from the magazine they have been writing for 30 years and no one cares enough to index it. Someone not making an exaustive index of things for you to pour over for free and using their memories doesn't make them wrong. This isn't 4chan, none of this is academic. You are arguing about ancient, badly written, childrens book fluff.

£300 Norn Queen model when?

>>53380532
>no interaction with the warp what-so-ever and yet devoured emotions.

They didn't devour emotion. Emotional impulses in their victims coloured the electromagnetic energy that they feed on. I mean check the brainwaves of a guy who distressed and a guy who is calm. Very different.

So...someone who hasn't played since 5e here.

By 'Knight' you guys mean that Space Wolves Dreadknight, right?

>>53380807
either a psychic superheavy or a plastic redesign of a hierodule to make it look more like the epic hierophant-like version is what is missing in the tyranid line desu

>>53380779
If we are arguing about things without sources at random then we can literally say everything we want.

For example I can recall perfectly that there have been lots of White Dwarfs that said that in 2nd edition Tyranids used the Webway to travel because their origin was as a backup project of the Old Ones. How about that?

I always liked the fan theory about him being a hero-killer, for those situations where a titan wouldn't work due to being easy to spot, but a tyrant just isn't strong enough

File: knight_and_trygon.jpg (151KB, 1000x650px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 1000x650px

>>53380843
nope

>>53380832
>They didn't devour emotion. Emotional impulses in their victims coloured the electromagnetic energy that they feed on. I mean check the brainwaves of a guy who distressed and a guy who is calm. Very different.

How do you eat that..? Like, how do you gain sustenance from that? That just sounds dumb, let alone how much it ignores the science of how EEG detectable brain wave patterns actually work and how you can replicate that same same series of patterns with a radio antennae.

It is either contradictory or incredibly, almost shockingly stupid. I wouldn't put either past the author.

>>53380832
Brainwaves can be easily recorded and the same frequencies reproduced even with today technology. No reason to devour all life when you can just devour a single guy and then set the recorder on repeat forever.

That explanation ha as little sense as the emotion one.

>>53380878
O-oh...o-okay then...

>>53380774
That seems like a rather large oversight.

>>53380857
>If we are arguing about things without sources at random then we can literally say everything we want.

That is correct.

>For example I can recall perfectly that there have been lots of White Dwarfs that said that in 2nd edition Tyranids used the Webway to travel because their origin was as a backup project of the Old Ones. How about that?

And if enough people also remember that then it becomes accepted by the majority of people. This isn't the scientific method, no one is going to pour over 500 magazines to find the snippet of shit they remember. If you don't like something in that sort of environment screaming at them to prove it doesn't make you win, it just means you are unconvinced and being really fucking loud and obnoxious about it.

But also given the propensity of 40k players to be brain damaged weabon nerds who will go to ground fighting over the tiniest detail and even when shown wrong by actual documents they still hold on to their argument's it's largely pointless. This isn't a population of people given over to productive discussions of literature. It's kind of a shitty set of humans to have to talk too.

So what I'm getting from this is that it might not be the best idea to have the Swarmlord try to 1v1 >>53380878 this fucking thing.

How would a Knight hold up to Swarmlord and a Trygon attacking it in tandem?

>>53380930
the heroic intervention rule kinda patches up the case of a character failing the chrge while its guardian unit doesn't, allowing a 3" consolidation into melee anyway, but otherwise it will be more difficult to protect the tyrant with the guards effectively

>>53380947
>If you don't like something in that sort of environment screaming at them to prove it doesn't make you win, it just means you are unconvinced and being really fucking loud and obnoxious about it.

This is the Internet, I can assure you that if I scream the aforementioned thing about Tyranids using the webway enought times it will become a fact. Like how the emperor destroyed Horus soul, or Ollanius Pius being a guardsman that stood against Horus in the Vengeful Spirit, or basically every 40k fact that everybody knows it's true but nobody can actually find anywhere.

>>53380977
we've mathammered that the swarmlord will be capable of dealing an average of more than 8 wounds against the knight, out of 24

the trygon has been hyped by GW to be capable of outright killing the knight with a single lucky flurry of attacks, but the swarmlord is in theory capable of tearing apart one and a half, which doesn't really live up to the actual average as above.

considering how deadly a knight can be and the possible use of stratagems from the knight player to interrupt the tandem attack and maybe kill one of the 2 monsters before it could attack, the best way is softening it with something else before.

>>53379511
Hating Crud is pretty unanimous amongst those who remember the time before. Don't pretend it's just one guy, just because you're willing to put up with subpar shit.

>>53379545
It's not just Carnac.

>>53381053
So...tie it up in gaunts first, got it.

>>53381068
This tbqh famalam

At first I read that as "Hating Hrud" and I was like "what did the Hrud ever do?"

>>53380843
Oh sweet summer child.

>>53380204
But Darth Maul is cool. He's one of the only good things to come out of the prequels. The other being the awesome pod racing video game.

>>53380255
>Do you also want to go back to the old necron fluff of the Ctan being unable to interact with the warp in any possible way and yet they eat fucking souls?

Yes. Oldcrons are best crons

>>53381216
The only good thing to come from the prequels is the duel of fates music. Everything else is garbage.

>>53381248
Your opinion is trash. There are plenty of good tracks from the prequels.

>>53380212
Patron saint of shitposters.

>>53380677
I'm curious if you can find even one place where it shows that they don't use the warp pre-5th. I'm willing to believe that this is one that was contradictory, just don't ever recall seeing it.

>>53380902
>>53380909
The C'tan Gods can easily devour the electromagnetic energies radiating from the Stars. However, these energies are flavourless. I imagine that making a recording of a victim's brainwaves would be just as plain and flavourless.

The C'tan required flavour and sentient living things, while they give small amounts of energy, give the C'tan with all the tasty treats they desire. Each C'tan God favoured his own method of seasoning his food.

The Nightbringer raised enter races from the muck before making them endure outrageous amount of torment and pain before brutally feasting. That was how the Nightbringer prepared his food.

I think its very Lovercraftian and neat. It really drives home the harvest theme of the Necrons and the C'tan being thirsting Gods no less horrible than the Chaos Gods.

>>53377429
>'this person thinks 40k fluff is silly!'
>'I'll insinuate they're boring and thus a fan of Infinity, the game with the pregnancy-hijacking space werewolves where you can have Joan of Arc swordfight Miyamoto Musashi.'

>>53377917
Every time I hear about nids this is the first thing i think of. Adaptation, on-the-fly gear swaps. Eating your own dudes to restore wounds. Decoy synapse creatures.

>>53381581
>The C'tan Gods can easily devour the electromagnetic energies radiating from the Stars. However, these energies are flavourless. I imagine that making a recording of a victim's brainwaves would be just as plain and flavourless.

Except its literally the same electromagnetic wave. Brains don't do anything special, they aren't magic or unique sources of radiation.

>The C'tan required flavour and sentient living things, while they give small amounts of energy, give the C'tan with all the tasty treats they desire. Each C'tan God favoured his own method of seasoning his food.

They only require it because a dude wrote a sentence saying it was required, not because that idea makes actual sense. It's totally arbitrary.

>The Nightbringer raised enter races from the muck before making them endure outrageous amount of torment and pain before brutally feasting. That was how the Nightbringer prepared his food.

Yes. I know. I am saying it was badly written and dumb.

>I think its very Lovercraftian and neat.

I take it you don't know how radio waves work, then.

> It really drives home the harvest theme of the Necrons and the C'tan being thirsting Gods no less horrible than the Chaos Gods.

I think it drives home the fact that Andy Chambers was a bad author with a very poor grasp of basic science.

>>53381581
>I imagine that making a recording of a victim's brainwaves would be just as plain and flavourless.

Why? A electromagnetic wave it's the same no matter the source. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't make sense because what it esplicitly say that it has nothing to do with the warp, which is the usual answer in 40k for these things.

They work basically the same as chaos gods, except that they don't use the warp. Which doesn't make any sense in setting.

>>53381098
>invade entire imperial worlds with their phase-teleporting filth.

Any chance of Tyranids getting new shit? If so, what could it be?

>>53381647
>They only require it because a dude wrote a sentence saying it was required, not because that idea makes actual sense. It's totally arbitrary.
Yes, that's called fiction.

>>53375657
We Heroclix now.

>this is actually making me want to dust off my tyranids

Does anyone have a size comparison picture of a custodes and a primaris marine?

>>53383262
other than marines and deathguard (the starterset factions) no one is getting new stuff yet.
they'll be going back to the codex update cycle later. but no word on the order.

Fluffwise, could the swarmlord beat a greater daemon? A primarch?

>>53384949
probably, but not definitely.

>>53383777
The only comparison pictures we've seen with Custodes are photoshops.

>>53381248
>he likes darth maul
>he allegedly thinks pod racing is unironically cool
He's pretty clearly baiting you, anon. Don't respond

File: IMG_0984.jpg (491KB, 753x536px) Image search: [Google]

491KB, 753x536px

>>53384949
He should be able to beat any non-named greater daemon or daemon prince. He also has the advantage of the shadow in the warp being very strong right around him, so a daemon would literally weaken in his presence. We've already seen how tyranids handle greater daemons though, and it's either by rushing them with trygons/carnifexes or by shooting them to shit with artillery and zoanthropes. The swarmlord, or any hive tyrant, probably wouldn't risk going one on one with a daemon unless it knew it was going to win and no available asset could kill it as fast.
For plot reasons he'd lose to a primarch, although it should be a pretty even fight. Pretty sure he won't be losing to space marine characters anymore, as it's stated that his next incarnation learned from its loss to Calgar and that's probably what the massive boost in stats represents.

>>53385704
>For plot reasons he'd lose to a primarch, although it should be a pretty even fight. Pretty sure he won't be losing to space marine characters anymore, as it's stated that his next incarnation learned from its loss to Calgar and that's probably what the massive boost in stats represents.

Fuck no. Calgar defeated it in a one v one.

Farsight matched it in combat.

And Cassius defeated it twice in a single war (post Kraken meaning post its defeat at Calgar's hands)

>>53377718
This, was said MC will be faster than they currently are and it seems bigger shit moves 9-12 (swarmy and knight)

>>53375562
My tentacles are so erect

>>53375562
Do we know if hive commander is a swarmlord only ability? Or something all tyrants are capable of?

>>53377402
>averages 6 attacks hit
>-AP3 means even the heaviest stuff is only getting a 5+, he will get 4-5 wounds through
>4 or 5 D6 damage rolls

>>53386442
Yeah, but in the first round, Papa Smurf got all of his limbs ripped off, then his honor guard fed themselves to the overgrown lobster so he could stump-walk away.

>>53386653
The first round was the Swarnlord + its Tyrant Guard vs Calgar on his own.

Round 2 it was Calgar vs Swarmy 1 vs 1, and Calgar won handily.

>>53377429
>>never demanded ID to be removed from the game because it benefitted them to keep it

When have nid's ever even been able to use ID? Their guns are all shit and the only creatures capable of holding their strongest weapons have the accuracy of a drunk ork and get killed off the board on Turn 1.

Most of their coolest creatures had their close combat strength inexplicably reduced to 6 and even carnifex's got taken down to S9 for some reason.

>inb4 S9 = ID
Too bloody right my tank-munching carnifex should be able to squish any special snowflake marine without a thought

>>53381589
>Infinity
Except for the past several years Infinity has been a hell of a lot more fun, interesting, accessible and affordable than 40k. Way less cancerous too.

Also I like (some of) the fluff. Emphasis on fantasy, not grimdark.

>>53378611
This. I don't dislike the swarmlord personally, but im not overly interested in him either, his ability however is so fucking good that im worried ill feel pressured into using him a lot. Hopefully tyrants have a similar ability

>>53386744
>When have nid's ever even been able to use ID?

Monstrous Creatures?

>>53378837
Xeno 1 - eldar, dark eldar, necrons, harlequins
Xeno 2- Ork, Tau, Tyranid, Cults

They share books but are not allied in any way, except obviously eldar sorta get on and nids and cults are sorta mates

>>53379709
You must be new to nids, that was originally just a hive tyrant and a dozen fexes charged the avatar down, the avatar I believed cleaved 2 apart with 1 swing before being trampled

>>53379905
>tyranids can operate independently while within synapse
No, they are all one mind, they just have fall back instincts for when they are out of it

>>53387643
that was only fexs and only in cc (which they never managed to reach). plus only against T4 or less.

ID was something nids just suffered from for the most part. Its removal is a buff for nids.

>>53387643
>Tyranid Monstrous Creatures
>Dealing ID, ever

Thats if any MC's above S6 even manage to get into CC

>>53387875
>they just have fall back instincts for when they are out of it
you mean, "lets stand still and eat ourselves" instincts?

So how is Assault actually changing in this new edition?

>>53378437
Well look anon, I can't read.

>>53387693
>but are not allied in any way

>implying the necrons didn't already attempt alliance with the eldar and the ynnari aren't the keystone to unify all the eldar

>implying ork-genestealer or tau-genestealer hybrids don't exist

I always figured that different hive tyrant "personalities" was just a way for the hive mind to experiment with different strategies and remain unpredictable to its enemies. Keeping Swarmy as an ace configuration for its tyrants in case shit gets real.

>>53386442
>Pretty sure he won't be losing to space marine characters anymore, as it's stated that his next incarnation learned from its loss to Calgar and that's probably what the massive boost in stats represents.
Way to quote my post but miss the entire point of it. I know Swarmy lost handily to Calgar, but in that exact piece of lore it says
>perhaps worse for the imperium, the hive mind absorbed the swarmlords consciousness yet again, and having learned from its own death, the next reincarnation would surely prove the most dangerous yet encountered

The new 8th edition stat line likely represents how the new swarmlord learned from it loss and became a primarch tier fighter just in case it gets into that situation again. If Calgar faced off against nuswarmlord, he would likely get absolutely wrecked and have all of his moves countered perfectly.

File: 1492891801649.jpg (383KB, 1236x1600px) Image search: [Google]

383KB, 1236x1600px

But what about pyrovores?

>>53390745
Apparently they got better and work well with Tyrannocytes. Normally I wouldn't trust GW that much, but they seemed to acknowledge several imbalances.

>>53389008
can charge from reserves (which can only bring you up to 9" from an enemy)
can charge from transports
some units can run and charge
number of inches between deployment zones seems to have been reduced
many units will move more than 6"
you only have to be within 1" of the enemy instead of reaching its base to complete a charge
defender assigns wounds, overwatch has less chance to remove those pair of inches from the charge
chargers attack first

do you want the other side of the news?

>>53387875

Broodlords, Genestealers and Hybrids of Genestealer cults are independent of the Hivemind while within synapse. Their fluff states they actively avoid other Tyranids and will try to flee a planet when an invasion is happening.

>>53390790

>Painted and full brood of 3 a few years back for a tournament so my list appeared soft.

Time to shine boys.

>>53390020

Hive Tyrants and Warrior Primes are mostly independent thinkers. Individual personalities are important military strategies.

There's even evidence that Lictors have free will, and individual personalities. This is especially true for Deathleaper. For why would Lictors hide on escaping starships when the hivemind could just assimilate them and create more?

>>53379994
>>Wade through multiple turns of shooting to reach enemy.
With nids high speed, most stuff will be in combat turn 2 or 3
> succeed in charge roll
Since you only need to get within 1" and not base contact and nids are speedy as is, not much of an issue
>Survive multiple overwatch fire
Ok has this ever been a real issue? I have never played a game where ive lost more than 2 guys to overwatch, its not huge
>Get one turn of assault , enemy units can't even be broken/run down.
This isn't much of an issue, nids looks lethal in CC, the 20 squad of stealers gets 80, rending attacks hitting on 2+..... You're hitting like 66 hits, 11 ignoring armour. You're killing a LOT, on top of that they will have to do a morale test and likely lose more
>enemy unit gets to disengage for free and entire army can shoot you all over again then counter charge you
They disengage and cant do anything else the entire turn, sure you can be counter charged, but you've almost wiped a squad and now have the rest of your nids catching up, anything charging you except orks will still likely lose when it comes to your turn and they will have to endure 2 rounds of slashing

>>53389163
>implying ork-genestealer or tau-genestealer hybrids don't exist

Except on TT they don't...

>>53390920
Yes please.

>>53390977
Genestealers and broodlords have their independence crushed by the hive mind once the main fleet gets there. There was a novel showing things from a broodlords perspective as his sentience was stripped away and his own motivations start being replaced by the hive minds will

>>53394754
Do you remember the name? That sounds awesome

>>53391098
>For why would Lictors hide on escaping starships
because they where specifically designed that way so they'd be better vanguards, same with genestealer primarchs fleeing the planet before the hive ships show up.
programming self-preservation into their vanguard species is really useful.

>>53385575
The podracing stuff from the movie was pointless filler designed to give their movie about space politics an action sequence for the kiddies.
The video game tie-in for that sequence was honestly fun.

>>53395003
It was the Sheild of Baal novel about a squad of Terminators. Deathstorm, I think it was called

File: Cassius vs the Swarmlord.png (440KB, 5032x676px) Image search: [Google]

440KB, 5032x676px

>>53390610
And way to miss my third sentence.

The Swarmlord, the incarnation after it was defeated by Calgar, was defeated by Cassius. Who is a lesser warrior than Calgar.

The swarmy is a shit fighter.

>>53395981
For some reason, some people think it's super important to have preexisting named characters fight preexisting named characters all the time (with whoever is the protagonist usually winning), and the Tyranids A) don't really have a bunch of named characters, B) are never the protagonists for obvious reasons, and C) Swarmlord can be killed and brought back, so whoever fights it WILL kill it since they can without mucking things up, instead of just having the loser retreat or whatever.
Such is life. It will continue to happen wherever the bugs show up, because they've got a preexisting named character that can be thrown at any place and time and can be killed without worry to make the protagonist look more badass.

>>53396216
In short, he's got Avatar syndrome.

>>53379684
Warriors are normally pretty tough at T4 W3, the problem was instant death. Take the Krak missile for instance which gibbed what is supposed to be a marine equivalent unit. Now that that form of instant death is gone, Warriors have a fighting chance. Warriors never needed a buff, just a way to lessen the effects of ID

>>53396500
They were made immune to 2xS ID in one codex incarnation until that ability was killed in a FAQ.

>>53396500
Assuming warriors are characters, couldn't you sprinkle them among your gaunts to give them synapse while making them harder to target and therefore way tougher?

>>53397915
There was a rule introduced called 'shoot the big ones' that allowed units to ignore the 'nearest target' rule. Specifically for fighting nids.

>>53387875
If they were all of one mind then the presence of the swarmlord would not change anything. As his presence changes things they are not all of one rigid mint but multiple connected ones.

>>53398288
and that is what rubs old nid players the wrong way

>>53396250
You mean the worf effect?

File: davalos10.gif (4MB, 415x394px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 415x394px

>>53397824
thats was in 4th i believe.
but in 4th edition they had 2 wounds and bs 2 for like 25 points, and then you had to buy weapons. so they sucked anyway.

i remember fielding a small squad of custim modeled flying warriors becvause they were so awesome looking. but they sucked cock because they were 40 points each with 2 wounds and a 5+

>>53398306
Why? If all nids were one mind, what would be the point of synapse?

>>53398306
Oh fuck I said rigid mint.
And I know that old nid lovers prefer a single minded massive hive mind that controls everything but all of the fluff points towards the idea that they are not. Deathleaper recieved instructions to assassinate a planetary governer but chose to ignore them, instead butchering his bodyguards to destroy his mind. This prepared the planet for a far easier munching than a mere assassination. To do that requires free thought and I prefer that. Also if the hive mind truly was of one mind then they would know the weaknesses of every race they have had prolonged wars with, but this knowledge stays with individual fleets instead. And I prefer it this way.

>>53388018
>>53398373
To leash the nids together. Outside of synapse nids have no connection to the hive mind.

>>53398348
Similar concept yes, but if in addition to simply being hyped up as being a strong and skilled warrior, Worf was also a 20 foot tall monstrosity with apparently uncounted millennia of experience. Like the Worf effect dialed up to 20.

>>53398400
>deathleaper received instructions to assassinate a planetary governor but chose to ignore them
Stop lying.
>>53398415
So, what if Hive Tyrants were just away to leash synapse creatures to the takticul jenyyus of the hive mind, and each hive tyrant was just programmed to access a different way of doing things, the swarmlord is better than most, and the imperials who tried to classify nids took it from there.

File: 1397508478672.jpg (119KB, 945x960px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 945x960px

>>53377429
>never demanded ID to be removed from the game
I have actually had long conversations and arguing for the removal of the x2 Strength ID rule, so fuck you

>>53398496
All right, he was a cardinal, not a governer.

>>53398400 Deathleaper recieved instructions to assassinate a planetary governer but chose to ignore them instead butchering his bodyguards to destroy his mind.

Thats the exact opposite of Deathleapers lore, it's explicitly stated in all it's codex appearances that it was created for the sole purpose of being a terror weapon rather than an assassin. By fucking with people it's not disobeying the hivemind, or even just creatively interpreting it, it's doing exactly what it was created to do.

>>53398496
Found a source, don't know who that other guy was pretending to be me.
"The Deathleaper is known to have been on the Missionary World of St Caspalen. The St Caspalen Planetary Defence Force became increasingly afraid as all across the world watchguards and sentries were mysteriously vanishing, only to be found days later with their brains sucked out. Soon the St Caspalen soldiers were so afraid that they were jumping at every shadow or unexplained sound. In an attempt to ease their own fears, they gave the unidentified creature the name "Deathleaper". As Hive Fleet Leviathan approached, the Deathleaper instinctively sensed that killing the planet's spiritual leader, Cardinal Salem, would only make the planet harder to devour, as it would create a martyr and steel the resolve of the people against the coming swarm. So the Deathleaper instead infiltrated the Cardinal's cathedral-bunker and slaughtered his advisors right in front him, leaving the Cardinal unharmed but drenched in the blood and viscera of his aides. The Deathleaper repeated his process for ten days, each time bypassing the ever increasing security around the Cardinal, coming within killing distance of the Cardinal but always retreating before harming him. This lead to the Cardinal becoming paranoid and eventually losing his sanity, and did more to break the morale of St Caspalen than simply executing their spiritual leader would have. When Leviathan invaded, the world was in confusion and terror and was easy prey." The fact that it has to be mentioned that the deathleaper realised killing the cardinal was not the ideal course of action implies that torturing the cardinal was not the order that deathleaper was originally given. Otherwise it would not have been mentioned and would instead have been deathleaper following orders.

>>53383262
>Any chance of Tyranids getting new shit?
Please no. The army's bloated enough as it is

>>53398640
Or you could use the actual source rather than copy pasting from lexicanum, where it says
>Deathleaper was created to be a terror weapon, one crafted to utterly undermine the enemy's morale and break their will to oppose the swarm.

There's no reinterpretation of orders, it was doing exactly what it was meant to do from the start.
Lexicanum is just a fan wiki anon, they frequently have their articles written in a way that presents things in a different light from the source material. Hell, they sometimes even have straight headcannon and fanfiction in there, it's not well edited at all.

>>53398739
Nids need a new fast attack, elite and heavy support unit unless things seriously improve next edition.

>>53395981
>an entire squad of veteran space marines took down the swarmlord while it was distracted

Not very impressed, fighting someone 1 v 1 is way different than fighting a highly coordinated squad of super humans who can cover each others weaknesses. By all accounts the swarmlord BTFO them, it just didn't account for Cassius surviving it's psychic attack and shooting 3 Hellfire rounds into its face while distracted. After that it was just a matter of pouring fire into it and ganging up on a weakened and severely wounded swarmlord, and it still managed to kill a guy.


You made it sound like Cassius soloed the swarmlord the same way Calgar did

>>53398770
I copied from 40kwiki, not lexicanum. They both have the same story word for word.

>>53398400
>To do that requires free thought
No, just pure instinct according to Cruddace.
>"Deathleaper instinctively sensed that the execution of the planet’s spiritual leader, Cardinal Salem, would have only accomplished the creation of a martyr"

File: Old fex.jpg (752KB, 1090x2114px) Image search: [Google]

752KB, 1090x2114px

>>53398833
They don't. What they need is customization

>>53398863
The Swarmlord is supposedly a demigod of war. The fact it got beaten by a group of marines shows how weak and foolish it is.

Would this happen to a Primarch or a famed chapter master? No.

>>53398985
Would this happen to a primarch?
Have you forgotten the mortarion incident already? The swarmlord is one of the checkboxes on the list of cool things your cool dude has killed. That's the only reason why he loses fights, because the good guys need more deeds.

>>53398985
Avatar syndrome

>>53399024
>Have you forgotten the mortarion incident already?

The guy met his weakness which happens to be the weakness of all daemons.

So you are saying that marines are the weakness of the Swarmlord? A group of 5 to 6 marines? Damn, I can name multiple characters that can kill dozens of marines in few minutes.

>>53399061
You miss my point. The swarmlord died only because the writer was shit. And only because some marine can now put "killed the swarmlord" on his resume.

>>53377917

I don't think hope for that because I realize it'd be unbalancable garbage, just like CSM 3.5 was.

You already have wargear, relics and biomorphs. That's enough for creative expression.

>>53383528
Yes. I know. Terribly written fiction. This whole thing started out with the accusation that oldcron fluff was fucking retarded.

>>53375562
I hope tyranids get broken into seperate, individual hive fleets, ala the cerberates.

I'd also like their to be Brood Wars/Starcraft 1 style Infested Kerrigan character for Genestealers.

>>53398496
If the Swarmlord were just a better leash, that takes a lot of resource investment (thus the one-of ruling), that would be much better.
If the fluff was written as being from an Imperial viewpoint, where it's 'we believe it's this, we think it's that, it MUST be this!', it would be much better.
Instead, they state explicitly what it is from a third-person omniscient view. It is not a stronger, costlier synaptic node. It is not just the Imperials pissing themselves in fear and thinking it's more than it is. It IS some separate consciousness what's better than everything else.

>>53377429
Considering they kept adding things that mess with the rule or just outright cause Instant Death, I (and probably others) felt that was something they weren't going to do, thus argued for what COULD possibly be done and had been done previously.
I was honestly completely fucking surprised to hear they'd removed it entirely this edition, and am glad for its removal, not just for bugs but for other armies.

>>53399657
>The guy who doesn't understand the appeal of Tyranids posting about Tyranids.
We get one of you per thread, don't we?

>>53378015

It takes 17 Las shots at BS4 to kill swarmy on average. If you're looking at a devastator squad that's over 600 points of shooting over the course of the game.

He isn't fragile by any means.

>>53400524

Aw shit nigga I forgot that str9 only wounds t6 on a 3+ now not a 2+. So it's actually 20 Las shots on average.

20 shots
13 hits
9 wounds
3 saves

6 unsaved wounds. On a d3 that goes up to 12, right?

>>53400602
That math was done to hell already, it doesn't take 19 unless you're stacking catalyst and no one was talking about taking devastators. Devs cost more than a land raider and land raiders in the next edition have four lascanons, two heavy bolters, a multi melta, and probably like 15 wounds T9.

Honestly, devastators have always been complete garbage. They are ludicrously overcosted.

>>53400602
Lascanons do d6. Not d3.

>>53400359
There is no we, I don't think his opinions are that bad and you're a dick.

>>53400900

Aha, that's where I fucked up. I don't know why I can't remember that they do d6.