How to portray religious fanaticism in a way that avoids both

>>53371459
Go for the "friendly old lady with delicious cookies and questionable world view" archetype instead. Also, discard the "evil" part. They should mean well.

>>53371459
DEUS VULT
ALLAHU ACKBAR
LEARN MY PRONOUNS

>>53371459
Just deus vult, infidel.

>>53371459
Marauding horde of retards killing everyone that isn't them and isn't willing to join their religion.

>>53371459
Eschewing reasonable solutions.
Medical procedures, food sources, conveyances.

>>53371459
Why not try making them nice? Kinda like Mormons, but just make them friendly people that aren't really creepy or threatening, but if you bring up sex, drugs, abortion, etc., they'll say no and probably explain why you shouldn't do it.

Bonus points if you hit up cathecism/Aristotle/bible to figure out the actual reasoning behind beliefs. Fanatics don't have to be violent, but a nice people that are 100% dedicated to a way of life (and might kill you if you do too much damage) would be a fun way to go

>>53371459
Read this and use it for inspiration.https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-unwashed-crusade-a-bannor-story.296178/

>>53371459
That depends a lot on the religion.
>Cult of love
All of their followers are sluts and whores, and will call everyone a prude.
>Cult of greed
The worst cliches of dwarves, capitalists and jews combined.
>Cult of knowledge
Reeeeeaaally interested in everything, to the point that it gets really annoying.
>Cult of austerity
They don't want to have to deal with anything. Anything.

>>53371459
Ultrapacifisim.

>>53371628
First thing they learn is levitation magic so they don't accidentally step on bugs or plants.

Scientology.
They don't really believe that shit. It's just a tax scam.

Jehovah Witnesses.
They're not evil. Just autistically obsessed with preaching.

Those Russian Christian Fundies in Siberia.
Basically, completely isolated loonies that honestly believe that everyone not part of their incestious cult is an agent of Satan. They're not violent to outsiders though. They just begin crying and fall to the ground in a panic thinking the apocalypse has started.

>>53371459

terrorism

>>53371604
>Cult of knowledge
>Reeeeeaaally interested in everything, to the point that it gets really annoying.

tfw the cult of knowledge even go so far as to measure the dick length of every male party member to learn every detail about them, but skip me over completely stating that it's "unnecessary".

>>53371459

I read Michel Foucault a couple years ago as part of class and I immediately saw some use in his idea that power was not a thing one either had or didn't have, but an activity.

The PC's come into town on the day an infidel is to be executed. Everyone they meet is uncomfortable and apologeetic-- they knew the infidel, but they're an infidel and God Wills It. Everyone laments the horrible necessity of the execution. Everyone comforts each other over the stress this execution is giving them. Everyone pats each other on the back and exhorts their neighbor to "stay strong" in these trying times. Keep the faith.

The pyre will burn, and the infidel--a young man who struck a priest while drunk--will writhe and scream. He will scream, and those burning him to death may cry, but none will stop it.

The next day one of those in the crow who had watched the young man consumed in the flames will show up at his mother's house with a casserole-- the mother will refuse them at the door. As they walk away, they'll speak ruefully aside to their friend.

"It's unfortunate that it happened," they will say, "but -I- wasn't the one who did it."

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>>53371679
Adding to this.

Doomsday cult.
They don't want to bring about the end of days. They're just convinced the end of days is next month and everyone must repent NOW so they're screaming 24/7 at the market square for three months now, taking shifts.

>>53371745
Thatos pretty neat.

>>53371486

This guy gets it. Religious fanaticism manifests in many ways, and often they don't recognize themselves as fanatics.

There's a pair of parents in belgium who killed their 7 month old baby. They were hippie natural foods fanatics who decided that their baby was gluten and lactose intolerant. Just kind of self-diagnosed. So they fed him quinoa milk, almond milk, etc. He didn't gain any weight and seemed to react badly to it, so they figured he needed more "natural" vegan foods. But not milk or formula, because that's a conspiracy by the patriarchy and evil capitalist corporations.

Finally he was having trouble breathing. They brought him to a homeopathic doctor, who saw this grey emaciated kid and immediately demanded that they send him to a real hospital. They finally did, but it was too late. He was nine pounds when he died, less than half what he should have weighed.

They still insist that he had an eating disorder and required the vegan diet and did nothing wrong.

That's what fanaticism can look like. Not just the screaming revolutionaries running madly off to their deaths or the priest/imam sternly burning witches. Look around for all kinds of smug and self-righteous people and you'll find the fanaticism lurking right under the surface.

>>53371852
>natural food fanatics
>buying premium priced nestle/unilever BIG FOOD products

Heheheh.

>>53371459

Play it up like a form of voluntary OCD. Have character(s) who constantly, and strictly, observe strange religious rites and taboos. They can only eat with their right hands, and can only drink while holding the cup with their left. They can only drink from cups, so they carry a cup with them and pour from bottles into it instead of drinking from bottles directly. All of this has some religious rationalization.

The other way is to play it like an extreme fandom. They work references to their god(s)/faith into almost every conversation, and constantly interpret events via religious allegory. Have them get really picky about religious arguments ala the old "Kirk vs. Picard" debates. No violence, but an intense passion over what looks like a silly dispute to outsiders. They must always display the symbol of their faith somewhere on their person, and usually mark their possessions with similar symbols. If a product bears the symbol of their faith they feel compelled to buy it.

Look at the Sparrows from GoT for inspiration. A populist movement that sweeps through the slums, eventually worming its way into the aristocracy. The heroes are those who recognize that if this once-fringe religion becomes pervasive it could destabilize the kingdom on a fundamental level.

>>53371913
The Sparrows are good though. They where formed following outrage after the priests of the setting are murdered, brutalized, and their churches defiled during the war.

Their actions in the story so far include them dragging a candidate for the settings pope out of a brothel to discredit him, protecting priests and orphans, and keeping nuns from being raped. What book are you reading where they are destabilizing the nation? The nation is already broken and in shambles, the Sparrows and Faith Militant are just doing their best to protect the faithful and innocent.

>>53372131
Was meant for
>>53371966

>>53371679
Tell me more about these Russians, I'm kinda curious now.

>>53371913

The kirk vs picard example is really good. Many seemingly crazy/stupid religious issues actually make more sense when you get that deep into the theology and realize that it's just the tip of an iceberg of theory and doctrine.

The old one about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, for example. The idea is that this is the canonical case of people splitting hairs and arguing about worthless minutae, but actually the argument was whether the number was finite or infinite. That is, whether angels are subject to any of the constraints of the physical world or whether being spiritual beings lets them bypass the laws of nature. Rabbis in the 8th century had a lengthy argument about transhumanism and genetic engineering that filled volumes of religious texts but seemed totally ridiculous and impractical until just a few years ago.

In the case of kirk and picard, much of it was really a proxy for the kind of story that ST fans prefer. Kirk stories favored bold cowboy gunplay and masculine displays of strength. TNG stories favored diplomacy and science, and speeches about moral virtue and ideological purity. It's really a conflict over ideology and story dynamics.

Finally, remember that fanaticism takes many forms. We draw firm distinctions between religion, philosophy, ideology, and history, but these subjects are really all very deeply intertwined. If you're looking for a new kind of fanaticism of religion, just take a fanaticism from academia or politics and rebrand it. Keep the style, change the substance.

>>53371459
>European liberals supporting flood of muslims because of their ideology
it's like pottery

>>53371679
>Jehovah Witnesses.
>They're not evil.
Nigger, these fuckers are one of the worst cults out there right now and that's saying something. They are downright harmful and malicious and they used MUH NAZI PERSECUTION as a shield to avoid repercussion for decades.

>>53371852
That kind of shit happened in my city, a toddler died because of meningitis because the parents wouldn't see an actual motherfucking medical doctor.

>>53372131
this
in the books the Sparrows did literally nothing wrong, they're only shitty in the show because they're mean to D&D's waifu Cersei

>>53372244
Oh hi Putin.

>>53372181
Basically, somewhere in the '70s some Russian scientists scouting for natural resources discovered an incestious Christian cult in Siberia that had fled out of civilized lands when the Tzar was still around.

The Russian-Orthodox church wanted the cult destroyed, so the cult members got the fuck out and fled into the wilderness before the Tzar could take action.

Anyway, when the helicopter landed with scientists wearing clothes and weapons (because bears, also meeting with crazy people in the bush-bush) that was far beyond anything those primitive cultists could even imagine, they literally thought Satan had come to claim their souls.

>>53372330
>they literally thought Satan had come to claim their souls.

It was the 70's, right? The Russians were still communist, so this wasn't too far off.

>>53372330
Fucking hilarious.

>>53371459
Show the good with the bad. Make it known through the npc's that the religion gives them a sense of purpose and community. Basically, find out what draws people to organized religion irl and implement it.

>>53372383
Basically. Though incest is usually a pretty big no-no in Christianity. Also in genetics.

>>53372402
>Basically, find out what draws people to organized religion irl and implement it.

So in short:
>my parents taught me this shit
>so i do it too

>>53372330
>Oh hi Putin.
What are you even smoking? Go have a look at the methods they use. They literally prey on the downtrodden and brainwash them into their ranks and anyone that wants to leave gets persecuted to the brink of suicide. Not to mention all the shady shit they pull just to keep their operations running. They manage to make the catholic church look like saints, an organisation that proclaims a fucking sadistic torturer holy in the year of our lord 2016 and continues to protect child rapists and sadists.
I'm catholic btw

>>53372421
Nobody cares about your personal Crusade to shit on every Christian denomination you think isn't 3000% holy. Why don't you waltz on over to /pol/.

>>53372330
So it was just a village of Old Ritualists?

>>53372417
In a way, yes. Religion gives many people a sense of identity and purpose. Having this shared identity with your family and other people is one way to fulfill a person's need for community.

>>53372417
>>my parents taught me this shit
>>so i do it too
As good justification as any.

>>53372421
>They literally prey on the downtrodden and brainwash them into their ranks and anyone that wants to leave gets persecuted to the brink of suicide
Just like every other sub sect and cult of Christianity ever.

>>53372417
Well, yes.
>This makes me feel good.
>Why change it?

>>53371459
An evil Nurgle cult has setup on the planet.

The dominant variant of the Imperial Cult on the planet opposes the usage of vaccines. They believe that the vaccines are secretly Nurglite heresy.

>>53371649
Then invisibility so they don't steal light from the plants.

Then they learn to eat magic so they don't need to interfere with the life of another living thing to live.

>>53371459
Organization is evil as fuck.
But they're also very polite and "nice" about it.

>Look I get that you don't eat babies, but I do okay?

>>53372456
Butthurt Jehovan detected
Go get your face smashed by a door

>>53372330
Going to go a bit off topic here, but on the scientists carrying guns, all Russian made re-entry capsules come with shotguns for the same reason.

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>>53371459
Try going for the "technically not wrong approach". For example, a paladin who distrusts all orcs because the Book of Pelor dictates they're evil. He's not -entirely- wrong, but he'll easily drive this dogma too far and ostracize if not outright slay even the few good ones.

Not wrong, just rigid.

>>53371910
>Implying superfoods, biological food and other fad diets aren't actively pushed by and appealed to by Big Food Corporations
It's just a coincidence that quinoa became the totally-healthier alternative to rice and at the same time big companies started shoving rice in the stalls of supermarkets when just a few years ago you had to go to super obscure shops to get it.

The best cult I had was from a Dungeon Magazine adventure. A little village/trading post was run by a church of a god of healing, the clerics all wore brown robes and a rope belt. no big deal. Almost everyone was a cleric, most were 1st level. they gave out cure wounds for no charge. Even the stableboy offered to heal the PCs. I thought it was a pretty cool idea- helping heroes who are braving the wilds and all that.
They thought of Jim Jones and the Kool-Aid and were afraid to sleep in the place.

I loved it.

>>53372557
>shoving rice in the stalls of supermarkets when just a few years ago you had to go to super obscure shops to get it.
What.

>>53372530
>you don't want to her me complain on the internet
>you must be a Christian denomination I dislike, suffer personal harm

Wew lad.

>>53371459
Have there be a good/reasonable sect as well; contemporaries vs. fundamentalists.

>>53372557
>rice super obscure
Where the fuck do you live, mars?

>>53372582
Unfortunately phrased sentence. What I meant is that a few years ago you couldn't find quinoa in most supermarkets. After it became a big thing it's practically impossible to avoid in most supermarkets. Makes me believe that big food companies themselves have a hand in pushing food trends, so they can make big bucks on the new hot "superfood". It's a great way to appeal to the masses and obfuscate the simple fact that a healthy diet today and a healthy diet 20 years ago were the exact same and don't require expensive meme products.

"X unlikely thing is true...now react rationally to it." Fanaticism is rarely irrational, it's merely not being a normie.

The easy thing is that any sufficiently rational system of belief is liable to reach such a point; simply because it values logic over social norms, so there are many examples out there.

>>53372546

What... So the Siberians don't murder the sky-man? What the fuck is wrong with Russia?

>>53372405
>incest
>no-no in Christianity
The old testament would like to talk to you

>>53372557
It's more like food items that are very healthy, have been for years, but were only known in select communities because they were X people food.
See kale, which for years was relegated to being poor southerners food, but then some fucker out west discovered that it was delicious, versatile, cheaper than most leafy greens and healthier to boot. It became popular, which made it expensive.
So now, it costs $6 a bunch when my mother used to buy a pound for a dollar.
Fucking people, I just want my greens.

>>53372602
>live where quinoa is common.
>don't like it.
>used to avoid it normally.
>Now I have to check what I'm buying because even the fucking cereal has quinoa versions.

Sometimes you just need 500g honey flavored sugar at 2:00AM to avoid burning the 'shop with the lasers.

How about we reverse it?
>cult leader has no ulterior motive beyond making money off of gullible people, preaches a vague doomsday that people need to repent or they won't get into heaven
>con artist has been exploiting members by selling them obscenely overpriced cult paraphanelia, members don't care because they believe the apocalypse is nigh
>one cultists claims he has studied the texts and believes Armageddon will occur in one month
>con artist is now scrambling to ensure the cultists do something insane (mass suicide, jihad nonbelievers, etc.) before the prophecy doesn't come true and a mass of angry rubes come for him to get refunds

>>53372632
More for wolves and bears, but Russian history is generally "and then it got worse".

>>53371459
Smoky back-room evil. They know what they're doing is wrong by any objective standard, but they don't care, because they get power for it and that's all that matters.

>>53372632
Bears come check the noise and find canned food.
Cosmonauts are expensive, you know.

>>53372661
At least we still have collards and mustard greens.

For now.

>>53372557
Uh that was my point mate. Biological food is just some new way Big Food has invented to sell more product in a day and age of more critical consumers.
The big irony is that biological food is often pretty fucking bad for the environment.

>>53372588

This is sort of what I'm doing in my current setting, except with a major religion which is in the middle of a schism and reformation. So you have the new faith and the orthodox faith, both of which pretty much practice the religion in the same way, but with disagreements on details and the purpose of mankind.

The reformers seek to abolish slavery and traditional subservience to the priest caste which is good, but their nations are currently in chaos as a result. By contrast, the fundie nations are running efficiently in a bleak and totalitarian way.

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>>53372661
The American obsession with kale is hilarious.

Over here in the Netherlands, kale is a typical staple of poor-as-fuck winterfood.

>>53371745

This is more horrifying than I think it was intended to be.

>>53372656
> No man shall approach to her that is near of kin to him, to uncover her nakedness. I am the Lord.

I did, it still told me not to.

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>>53372923
>I am the Lord.

Why is this so funny?

>>53371459
Burn one of your players at the stake as a warning to the rest

>>53372932
Its a non-sequitur but you have enough context to imagine God saying it.

>>53371482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM4-r4pN1PY

>>53372932
Because you're imagining some jew hopped up on acacia-DMT and wild cannabis infused incense screaming wildly and scribbling on papyrus thinking he's talking to God?

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>>53372932

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>>53372330
Wow that's funny as shit. I love Russia.

>>53372405

The Borgias and Pope Alexander would like to talk to you. :)

>>53372776

Um, other than salt and water, what food isn't biological?

>>53373037
I think he means 'organic' products.

>>53372923
CFNM, eh? Kinky, I like it.

>>53373020
> "I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. He desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong – to Spain."

He wasn't that popular with the Church. But he did solidify papal authority and essentially made Papal dominance over Rome absolute so I think he wasn't that bad. Kind of a 50/50 pope.

>>53372923
>>53372932
>>53372986

The Torah wasn't just read, it was sung. There's a ton of poetry, wordplay, and musical repetition. In the original hebrew, "ani Adonai Elochehem" sounds like a triumphant flourish, and it's repeatedly used kind of like a chorus. It sounds strange to your ears because you're hearing a translation-- translated songs and poems often lose some of their majesty.

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>>53372546
Comes with two shotgun barrels, a rifle barrel, and a machete for a stock.

>>53373045

Um, other than salt and water, what food isn't organic?

>>53373071
I'd say velveeta, but plastic is technically an organic compound.

>>53373071
'Organic' on a food label means the product is raised a certain way. It's marketing shorthand.
>'Organic food is the product of a farming system which avoids the use of man-made fertilisers, pesticides; growth regulators and livestock feed additives. Irradiation and the use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) or products produced from or by GMOs are generally prohibited by organic legislation.

Of course 'GMO' is a nebulous buzzword in and of itself, but the point stands.

>>53372776
This.

In a sense the best way is still to eat local traditional food, and be picky about the quality of your meat and dairy.

>>53373059
True, though if I may add some autism this wasn't unique to the Torah. The Illiad, Odessey and pretty much every other important story from the ancient era functions this way. Weird phrases, forced rhymes and unusual pronunctuation are forced in to make the story easier to remember, which was quite important in oral cultures (cultures where only a tiny minority knew how to write and storytellers needed to remember the stories they sung/rhymed).

>>53373123

Yes, exactly. Frankly, the lack of good poetry and spoken word these days is unfortunate. Other than Joe Frank, who still does this well? And hell even he's mostly retired.

>>53371745
Problem is, this is how religions, ideologies and society in general operate in real life, so it has a pretty good change of causing drama or making players uncomfortable.

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>>53373052
I spent ten minutes trying to find out which translation of the Bible that was. I feel a little stupid.

>>53373056

Yeah he was a fascinating character, right up there with Cardinal Richelieu.

>>53371498
So DEUS VULT?

>>53373178
Yes
>>53371486
Read the chain.

>>53373150
Richelieu invented modern France and is actually pretty popular among both the French and Catholics. He is a pretty cool guy to read about.

>>53372661
>>53372754
I've been growing most of mine for a few years, its a lot cheaper. If you're rural you'll have space and if you're urban they don't need too much. Once you get like 2 kale plants going you can alternate which you harvest from and use them for a chunk of spring, all summer and into fall. You can grow mustard greens in a flowerbox.

While we're talking about cults though, include farming. They love that shit.

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http://local.sltrib.com/online/sw/short-creek-evictions/#content-wrapper
Evictions are beginning in Short Creek, Utah/Arizona, twin towns that are home to the FLDS, an extremist polygamist cult who's child molesting God King is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off*. The cultists could stay in their homes if they signed a waiver saying they'll work with the land trust that owns their homes** but won't because they're well, the products of multiple generations of incest*** and brainwashing. Swarms of children follow the eviction teams to film them, because they're convinced it's a new chapter of oppression and they don't have anything better to do as the child molesting God King who is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off outlawed play.****


*I am not exaggerating.
** All homes were previously owned by the child molesting God King who is chained up in solitary for life so he won't masterbate his dick off but when he was arrested the states stepped in.
*** The town is home to multiple unique genetic disorders.
**** I am again not exaggerating.

>>53373102
Amusingly, in a lot of actual legislation "organic" just means "less man-made stuff", not "no man-made stuff" - in some things (if they usually don't use many) there can be almost the same amount of chemicals used.

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>>53373150
So we're going to derail this thread with interesting clergymen, right?

>>53373294
It's already been derailed into food.

If anything you guys would be administering a course correction.

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>>53371604
>cult of love
>when you've just arrived at the small town and every sister is trying to fuck you
>tfw you refuse them all and laugh in their faces

>>53373294
He was basically only a clergyman to further his career as a writer. If you look at South America though, there are tons of examples of revolutionary freedom fighting priests. Also the opposite.

South America was a mistake.

>>53372268
Why is Cersei immune to this shit, anyway? Shouldn't there be a single man she's slighted, woman she's insulted, or even common man that's been ruined by her policies willing to take a suicidal stab at her while she's walking for her hourly wine?

>>53371498
But what if the religion is of peace?

>>53373524
Jamie is shaping up to be that in the book.

>>53372584

....But are you though?

>>53373601
If you honestly believe there are Jehovah's Witnesses on 4chan, you're fucking retarded.

>>53373376
>Then at the inn, your found tie down to the bed with every sister in the village waiting to ride you.

>>53373601
No. I knew one, and his mother was bonkers, but that's my entire involvement with the religion.

>>53371459
It's risky, but try looking at accepted religious groups and putting an evil spin on them. There have been plenty of movements among various religions across history to focus on a closer spiritual relationship without the trappings and rituals of more organized religion. Make those generally peaceable outsiders into rebels and revolutionaries.

Try giving them some grand prophecy to follow and justify themselves with - something that is horribly obtuse and makes sense only to the cultists. If you ask why they're incorporating Taoist philosophy into a Neoplatonist bit of writing on comparing Biblical scriptures and Buddhist texts, and mangling it all into something referring to the future, have them rant and rave. Make it a little useful for being able to be interpreted for whatever the cult needs to do, because it's so obtuse they can justify anythimg through it, from a legitimate search for important items to scrabbling around for fifteen different lengths of seven-colored thread.

Maybe have members with mental illnesses, if you can handle that. In more primative cultures, such indivuals were often actually revered for a presumed connection with spirits or ancestors - a crazy cult might do something similar, mistaking the ramblings of a man with a form of schizophrenia as something of the divine. Maybe some members lefitimately cannot understand if they're doing something wrong or that harms others.

>>53373830
I would be careful with this. Like you said, it's risky. If a player catches on that's a part of that religion things will get uncomfortable.

>>53373549
Jaime fucks Cersei in the White Room in the show.

>>53373294

Nah, with interesting templates for religion-based settings. Every fanatical movement is filled with often-high-ranking leaders who are just there to feather their own nests and ride the wave. Often they're the most pious-seeming.

OK so we just had a bunch of christian examples. Shabbatai Tzvi was a jewish religious leader. He raised a huge following but then when he got to Turkey on his way to Israel to "reconquer it" he converted to Islam instead.

Most of the communist leaders are like this. Who's the richest person in Venezuela? By far? Hugo Chavez's daughter. The Kims have been looting Best Korea for their personal jollies for decades. Both Mao and Stalin/Beria had a thing for little girls. Stalin is believed to have been an informer for the Okhrana (the Czarist secret police)-- some were double agents so this isn't known for sure but it's a great example. Both Napoleons rode democratic revolutions into power, then declared themselves emperor. SJWs are often racist, sexist, and greedy for money in private-- look how many feminist political leaders have rapey skeletons in their closets. One male feminist professor had a nervous breakdown a few years ago and admitted to having been sleeping with a long line of grad students for years, using his women's studies professorship to shield him from investigations. Several christian conservatives turned to be secretly gay. America's founders included many true believers in natural rights... who also owned chattel slaves (to their credit, most acknowledged their hypocrisy rather than trying to justify it).

So any storyline about fanaticism needs to include a healthy dose of people who "believe" out of fear or to look cool via virtue signalling. Plus some leaders who genuinely believe, as well as some who are just riding the wave, and a few who are rampaging hypocrites behind closed doors.

>>53371498
You tipped your fedora so low you couldn't read OP's post.

>>53373954
>Both Napoleons rode democratic revolutions into power, then declared themselves emperor.
To be entirely fair, the French Revolution wasn't about dethroning the monarch per se and both Napoleons based themselves on Augustus' model (but then again you could be cynical and say it's two opportunists copying an even older opportunist).

>>53373870
Very true, but you could just take some of the ideas, but not the religion itself. It's not as if mystiscm is unique to the Sufis, right? And even if you're playing a fantasy game, some moron will go 'oh so it's X' your attempt to make a totally unique cult.

Also, one more suggestion - the Taiping Rebellion. Jist of it is that a Chinese student has a breakdown after failing a super-important test and ends up believing he's the bro of Jesus and forming a movement out of people he converted - a big deal since Christianity seemed so strange and forgien to the Chinese. The movement was peaceful enough, if very religiously strict, until there was trouble with government officials and they went on the warpath.

>>53371852
There's a fair deal of homeopathic food bullshit I can get behind, but it's mostly to do with nutrition and gut flora.

Speaking of nutrition, if you try really hard, you can stay... kinda healthy, as a vegetarian.
It's not a good idea, but you can do it. Unless you're vegan. Recent concerts aside, vegans are malnourished.

>who decided that their baby was gluten and lactose intolerant.
I've got nothing against gluten, have it all the time; but you probably want to keep babies away from carbs. Especially grains.
It's also insane to keep babies away from breast milk. If we were in so sci-fi world where we ate "optimal food" in pills, the most similar food would be breast milk.

>>53371545
What the fuck?

>>53374047
>it's two opportunists copying an even older opportunist).

Yeah, that.


>>53374118

Ahh, but THAT'S the point, why it's not a derail and is totally to OP's question. Naturally grown food, health food, appropriate diets for people with food allergies, those are all good ideas. But the fanatics take it too far and you have a dead baby.

Peace, love, and understanding? How many millions have been murdered in the name of that? Most major religions have pretty admirable tenets, but the fanatics take it too far or derail it into evil.

There's a hundred million dead in the name of various strains of Communism-- all in the name of helping the poor and making the lot of the working man better. Sharing and cooperating... hand it to fanatics and you have a hideous ocean of blood.

Any cult has some ideal at the core that isn't so bad, is maybe even a wonderful and good thing. The moonies revere self-discipline and cooperation. The buddhist cults want peace and reflection. Scientology claims to be crusading for mental health. David Koresh wanted a religious utopia and faithful christian life. Jim Jones fought for social justice and racial harmony. They take that core idea, strip away lots of other important moral principles, twist it out of recognition, and then brutally resort to evil to spread it. Oh, and then exploit the followers for their own personal benefit.

That's the nature of fanatical movements. But they have way more forms and shapes than just religious movements. IMO you have to start with a good idea and then work outward. Adding in a big cast of characters who form its leadership.

make them eco warriors, who taken to their natural conclusions are anti-humanoid

>>53374118
Formula is just as healthy as breast milk most of the time, as is especially helpful in children who have trouble digesting breast milk.

>>53374285
Lets expand this, actually.

Druid circle that started, hundreds of years ago, to get back to nature. Left the cities, became "one with nature."

Flash forward to the present, and guess what? We've got feral druids. Just people who've gone feral, with magic powers and a penchant to destroy cities and kill anything with sapience.

>>53373147

If I am including religious fanaticism in my game as an antagonistic element of the setting, I should hope they'd feel just a little uncomfortable.

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>>53373781
>>53373376
Go on.

>tfw the religious were right and everyone else suffers the consequences
ha looks like the meek inherited the earth after all

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>>53374438
>Go In

>>53374476
Wowza, that's been a while.

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Essentially a fucked up Century long game of chinese whispers with the occasional sociopath sprinkled in. Most people following your cult are good people but at this point the doctrine is so warped by misunderstandings and the necessities of power that they might be evil aswell.

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>>53374841

>>53373070
I want that so fucking bad

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>>53373070
>>53374939
Cosmonauts got some cool gear

>>53371459
I would make a village where everyone is really bothered that you're not following the words of venerable Yog Sototh, and make everyone really friendly but unfortunately they can't help you unless you participate in the weekly ritual to appease his hunger.

>>53374339
This could be a fun part of a setting. But I don't think it works for fanaticism or cults.

>>53374418
There's a difference between "the monstrous evil of these safely fictional villains is making me retch" and "wait, isn't this basically the same argument _I_ use to justify supporting the death penalty/bashing gays/sending people to gulags/depredations of Wall Street/deporting immigrants/war/whatever?"

Nothing wrong with that, and possibly a lot of good, just understand what you might be getting to.

>>53373273
I'm confused, did you add in the fun god-king details, or is the article edited?

>>53371459
Look up the lives the saints and the movies on them.

>>53371459
skub vs anti-skub

>>53371482
>Also, discard the "evil" part.
This actual major religions always mean well, even if the end results are sometimes bad. Seriously what person would join a religion when on the first day of church the pastor says "so how do we make the world a worse place today?"

>>53375416
>Seriously what person would join a religion when on the first day of church the pastor says "so how do we make the world a worse place today?"
niggers

>>53375398
But that would put OP through the mental trauma of pretending to be a degenerate skub-lover.

>>53371459
100% agree with >>53371532

I've lived in Utah for a couple years, and Mormons can be very nice but extremely condescending if you don't buy into their religion. It could be a great dynamic as the players would meet the church thinking they're friendly but over time they become pushy and condescending if they don't convert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TxWj41aV5E

>>53375416
Liberals

>>53375462
>>53375539
nice meme

>>53375416
Someone who's parents are practitioners?
Someone who's willing to sell their soul for power?
Someone who's overcome by a dark prophet's charisma or the call of Cthulhu?
Someone who's witnessed infidels and heretics getting struck by bolts of lightning firsthand?
Someone who's a malevolent imbecile?
Someone who thinks it's all just lolz?

People do stupid things all the time, Anon.

>>53375150

Entirely fair. At my table we've agreed that our roleplaying sessions are meant to be challenging and not just diverting, so it is relatively par for the course. I'd love to find a /pol/ack to run a few sessions of something that will challenge our super liberal snowflake attitudes, actually.

>>53375642
>african devil worship is just a meme
dude you should visit there its a nuttsy insanity land

>>53371459
Non nobis domine, DEUS VULT

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The religion gives you some minor, but useful ability that only works with/on other cult members.

Over time, you become more and more reliant or obsessed with the ability. Or make it like Scientology but throwing money at them actually 100% DOES level you up as a person, leading to drug-addict like

Take something like some sort of mind-messaging. Initiates can only send out the mental equivalent of emoticons at very short range. It's basically a gimmick at this stage but it makes you feel special and included.

People really, really deep into it essentially don't talk anymore because they just beam their thoughts to each other across the room.

Or take Calvanism to the extreme: There's a set list of people who are going to be saved, and it's already fixed in stone. They don't hate you for not being on it, but just shrug their shoulders at basically anything that happens to outsiders.Think of it like the indifference we have to boiling crabs and lobsters or cutting their faces off with scissors. Outsiders don't even *feel* suffering, not like us converts- we actually have souls. Or how Christianity doesn't recognise animal souls- so converts would have outsider friends, etc and be nice to them but there would always be this wedge between them

>>53375491
>degenerate skub-lover
Speak for yourself, there is objectively reason to dislike skub. Try to prove me wrong, fucko.

>>53375678
>Someone who thinks it's all just lolz?

>"Wait, are we actually sacrificing this guy?"
>"Seriously, this is just a prank, right? We're not ACTUALLY summoning demons, right?"
>"This was a bad idea and I regret everything."

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>>53375416

>Seriously what person would join a religion when on the first day of church the pastor says "so how do we make the world a worse place today?"

>old ass text in a old ass language
>translation is also in an old ass dead language
>most theologic discussion actually is about older theologicians referencing even older theoligicians who talk about the first theologicians

Essentially after a few centuries religion becomes this byzantine, orthodox nightmare most clerics don't understand. And never underestimate the power of socializing.

>>53371459
Go full martyr

Stylites. Fasting. Other such forms of mortification.

The cult has a borderline autistic obsession with XYZ and won't stop talking about it, but they otherwise leave people alone.

The cult splintered off a larger religion and has a self sustaining commune somewhere along some road and trades with travelers

The cult worships your setting's dirty of the sea, with many fisherman. They also maintain accurate sea charts which sell copies of

>>53374315
I wasn't trying to suggest formula is bad.
It's actually * healthier* than breast milk, since toxins in the mother get into that.
Its a bit less nutritious though. It gets the doses right, but skips a few altogether.

It also doesn't do any of the non-food things breast-milk does, like give the mother's immune system's records of diseases to the child's immune system.

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THEY WON'T STOP LEAVING THEIR MARK FUCKING EVERYWHERE AND ARE BRAINWASHING YOUR KIDS INTO DOING IT TOO

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>>53375788
>There is objectively reason to dislike skub
See, this is the type of shit skubfags get up to.
Manages to make a typo that makes it look like he agrees with me! How do skubfucks even remember how to breathe?

>>53376309
>look at me I'm anti skub I'm so unique and special!

>>53376569
Pretty sure it's you who are "special", anon.
Since anyone with an IQ above 60 would be anti-skub you faggot, I'm simply calling you out on your bullshit.

>>53376252
Seriously where did this shit come from? I remember seeing it as early as 1995.

>>53372661
I feed my rabbit kale.

>>53376702
Google says it is just a popular easy to draw symbol that has been around for decades. Some think it is gang related, but without any evidence to back that up. Others say it is related to a brand of clothing, but the symbol existed before then

>>53371459
Follower(s) of a beneficial, helpful religious order that get(s) carried away. The whole "be careful when fighting monsters" thing. It started as a holy order to hold back the tide of darkness, but some via some "ends justify the means" thinking or just finding darkness in every corner, it becomes a holy terror. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

This whole thread is treading the line of /pol/ as tightly as it can.

>>53372661
I hope broccoli never becomes trendy. I like it being inexpensive

>>53372204
Well put.

>>53372204
>Rabbis in the 8th century had a lengthy argument about transhumanism and genetic engineering that filled volumes of religious texts
could you give some keywords/names? Because that honestly sounds pretty interesting

>>53377074
Cause now /tg/ is going to have a lengthy argument with far more cussing than possible.

>>53373954
You have to wonder how many "Oh Shit" moments there have been though history of opportunists accidentally outing themselves in front of a true believer having mistaken them for good company.

>>53372475
Da.

>>53375416
What if it was a religion where they believed that by making the world a worser place, they'd be guaranteed safety and protection by some evil deity?

Or just Lovecraft-style shit. 'The world is is a false throne made of lies populated by insects scrabbling in the dark, let's fucking do what we want.' I'm pretty sure some people would follow that, if they thought they were learning essential truths to the state of the universe.

>>53377161
I wonder about the other way around as well - how many times must there have been that someone who's just in it for the perks realises that yes, the true believer very much does believe the crazy things they're saying

>>53375678
>Someone who's parents are practitioners?
Generally not a good way of gaining converts meaning your religion will remain tiny and irrelevant like Druze. Hence why I mentioned major religions.
>Someone who's willing to sell their soul for power?
How much power do they get and who gets it? Why don't good gods do the same? I mean at least chaos from warhammer often tries to portray itself as good by fighting the big bad (from the perspective of people outside the imperium) imperium.
>Someone who's overcome by a dark prophet's charisma or the call of Cthulhu?
Major religions don't form in a generation. If Jesus preached a religion that entailed sacrificing babies than I doubt Christianity would have lasted long after his crucifixion.
>Someone who's witnessed infidels and heretics getting struck by bolts of lightning firsthand?
Possible but you can't build a major religion on chance happenings.
>Someone who's a malevolent imbecile?
So, a minority of a minority?

Even cults where everyone ends up killing themselves generally pretend to be good.

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>>53371459

>>53377074
He probably means the Talmud. Fact is it wasn't what you think. It's about as close to transhumanism as saying "humans animals and all of gods creations are different. Can humans achieve godhood?"

Cue several hundred pages of Jews arguing about the issue. It isn't anything like modern transhumanism or genetic engineering. That is about as accurate as saying Nostradamus and his vague prophecies are about whatever event you want them to be about.

If anything it was a discourse on the place of man among the other creations, not 8th century Jews talking about futuristic technology and genetics.

>>53375818
>Essentially after a few centuries religion becomes this byzantine, orthodox nightmare most clerics don't understand. And never underestimate the power of socializing.
The point is that they mean well. Even if theological confusion leads to the religion eventually going down the shitter the religion initially meant well and even then probably isn't so much outright evil as restrictive and authoritarian.

>>53377277
>The point is that they mean well.

Yeah i know. My clerics would constantly act selfless and good onan indiviudal level but that would constantlybe overshadowed by church red tape fucking everything up.

>>53375416
>Seriously what person would join a religion when on the first day of church the pastor says "so how do we make the world a worse place today?"
Ebola-Chan
>Make the world a worse place. Specifically, a part of the world you don't live in but your enemies do.

>>53371459
Mennonites, but maybe they hate magic? Or fey beasts of burden?

Or Shinto cults / feudal Japanese buddist sects like the ikko ikki?

How about a holy animal they can't kill destroying all the crops?

>>53377514
This people tend to believe that they're making the world better by erasing their enemies, so it doesn't count as an example of making the world worst.

>>53377161
I've been on the other end of that. This guy was pretending to be a priest to get free drinks and someone brought up the Eucharist and said 'it's just bread'. We may be alcoholics, but we're good enough Catholics to know a priest wouldn't say that.

>>53377204
Isn't the bottom one just Objectivism?

>>53371459
Easy. I made the fanatics right.

>>53376799
It IS

I like going the "weirdo hippie cult with oddball beliefs that just so happen to be totally 100% right" route. My favorite version of this was an odd new-agey religion that believed falcons were evil spirits and performed rituals to ward their roofs against the birds.

>>53380020
But that can't really be a religion, right?

>>53380350
Scientology nigga. Basically objectivism bred with protestantism and science fiction.

>>53375416
I honestly would

Fuck nice things

>>53377514
>Ebola-Chan
Ebola-chan was worshiped to cleanse the Earth of undesirables.

>>53375416
The root of all religion is power and greed. Many people who practice are good-natured, but all prophets are false prophets and the first preacher of each religion was lying through his teeth, seeking influence among a naive public and to increase his own standing. Later, clergy would squabble among each other, marking minority views as heretical and exiling them because it put the authority of those in power into question. At the same time, patriarchs of competing religions marked each other as heathens, and greater conflicts erupt in service of furthering their personal ambitions.

So yes, the average follower means well. Anyone in power is not.

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>>53371459
What are you trying to portray about them? Like, I'm immediately thinking how to portray real belief and a real drive to follow and espouse that belief, but do you mean like militant fanatics, like straight zealots? Sincere faith can definitely be present with that, but you could play them as devoted more to devotion than the actual precepts, so that they are willing to compromise on the actual teachings to punish those who are outsiders. If you don't want them to break their beliefs or have an evil doctrine, then portray someone who gets involved with the faith and then becomes progressively worse until they are outright irredeemable to show the power that the devotion has on their souls. But really, there is a ton of nuance depending on how your fanatics are supposed to behave and I don't know what you are aiming for.

>>53371459
>Setting with multiple religions
>One religion refuses to admit the other Gods are real
>Treats followers of the others like misguided children
>Maximum Condescending

>>53371604
Yeah absolutely, you can be a fanatic about ANYTHING. There's a general uncompromising nature to every fanatic, but even that can be applied to anything. A fanatic pacifist views force as completely unjustifiable to achieve an end, so one that you could argue goes over the line would be one who bans chess from their house because it teaches people to work in opposition to each other rather than finding common ground. But I'm trying to think about how to portray fanaticism as wrong, and even that example probably makes sense to a lot of pacifists, and honestly, to call it fanatic really might just be me thinking that that is so different from what I do, it represents something unreasonable. If you want to portray fanaticism as a good thing, then show how they lead good lives even without the things they choose to abstain from, how they play Quelf instead of Chess, or how they still do archery because it requires skill. Anything that shows them as good or, broadly, as still participating broadly in what life has to offer even when they choose not to partake in what disagrees with the spirit of their doctrine... but even that goes against aesthetic doctrines, so really you gotta play it by ear.

>>53371459
you forgot "fire and brimstone/can I get a witness" sermons

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>>53382696

It's simple.

The fanatics are right.

Pretty easy in fantasy settings, really.

>>53372181
Old Believers
someone named Anna or Hanna or something all alone
you can google those

>>53377273
doesn't mean the principles don't apply
"can a man become something greater than what Man currently is?"
that's a key theme of transhumanist fiction, and science fiction in general
"are different kinds of sentient/sapient beings really that different, or are they basically the same?"
that's another key sci-fi element

>>53377235
>>Someone who's parents are practitioners?
>Generally not a good way of gaining converts meaning your religion will remain tiny and irrelevant like Druze. Hence why I mentioned major religions.
you could conquer some other people and interbreed with them, and then repeat
>>Someone who's willing to sell their soul for power?
>How much power do they get and who gets it? Why don't good gods do the same?
it's fantasy, everyone knows evil gods give you more power, unless you do some gay happy friendship thing that's really obscure for some reason and probably requires more friends than you have
>>Someone who's witnessed infidels and heretics getting struck by bolts of lightning firsthand?
>Possible but you can't build a major religion on chance happenings.
again it's fantasy, who's to say there isn't a malevolent god that's making people ride the lightning every day but not his own followers because he's egotistical?
actually that reminds me of Ares from the show Hercules, someone should make something out of the pantheon shown on that show

>>53372330
That's basically all of the Old Ritualists, except maybe the inbred isolationists.
Also, Jenovah Witnesses are a classic malicious cult which ruins people's lives.

>>53371913
>Play it up like a form of voluntary OCD.
that reminds me of the people of Path from the second or third Ender book
>They can only eat with their right hands, and can only drink while holding the cup with their left. They can only drink from cups, so they carry a cup with them and pour from bottles into it instead of drinking from bottles directly.
and that reminds me of the Pythagoreans

>>53372632
if re-entry went badly they could've ended up anywhere on Earth
for most of Soviet history there were still tribes out there that didn't there was even a world beyond what they had seen, let alone space capsules-- but those people sure as fuck had weapons, stone axes and arrows and the like

>>53371459
Just copy Islam done so easy man.

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>>53383505
>for most of Soviet history there were still tribes out there that didn't there was even a world beyond what they had seen

>>53371459
The Amish

>>53371852
Or you get something like that town of people who think they're electromagnetically hypersensitive but really just have medical student's disease

>>53383810
never heard it called that before
is it actually that common among med students?

>>53383853
Hell yes it is. Basically what happens is a med student is studying AIDS. Now, the more you learn about medicine (like many things) the more paranoid you become about health hazards. The student suspects based on surface-level symptoms that have just manifested that they now have AIDS. The symptoms are very real, but the diagnosis is incorrect. This is the nocebo effect - instead of the placebo effect helping you heal because you thought you took medicine, you suffer symptoms because you believe something will make you sick.

Electromagnetic hypersensitivity is not a real physiological condition, but the belief that one is electromagnetically hypersensitive is a very real psychosomatic condition, with very real symptoms. As determined by a combination of open trials and double blinds, the only reliable indicator of whether or not the subject will experience symptoms is their belief that there is a source of electromagnetic radiation nearby.

During the open trial (i.e. a light bulb is turned on in their field of view) they experience symptoms with an exact correlation to the active state of an electrical circuit. But during the double blind (i.e. a light bulb is turned on without their knowledge behind them by someone who doesn't know its on either), they experience symptoms completely out of sync with the circuit's active state but entirely in sync with their answers to "is the light on?"

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/04/green_bank_w_v_where_the_electrosensitive_can_escape_the_modern_world.html
http://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_students'_disease

>>53384102
can a medical student who learns about medical student's disease experience a medical student's disease nocebo effect?

>>53371459

What you need to do is remember these words. "You just don't get it, do you?" Whatever the goal, whatever the end result, whatever the means, all is justified by the religious backing and it can't go away.

The logic breaks down like this.
-I will follow my faith's will
-I will take the actions it demands
-I am a good person to do so

The logical trap, usually answered by the above statement or violence is this.
-You did a bad thing
It can't be bad, my faith demanded it.
-If that were true, your faith is bad
That must be wrong, because to follow my faith makes me good, and good people don't do bad things. If my faith is bad, my actions lack justification. My actions are justified by my faith.

This swirl of error peters out after a while, or in violence. Others of the faith, who didn't do that thing, whatever it was, call the logically trapped out as 'not true believers' or lead astray and thus justify their own faith again.

Thus, on an individual scale, go with smug or condescending actions and whenever called out on it, they fight verbally like trying to explain grass is green. Believing to be firmly in the right and you are either stupid or a troll for disagreeing.

>>53374284
Tons and tons of people have been murdered in the name of peace and similar good things though. Because that's how the world works.
>let's nuke two of their cities so that we won't have to invade their island

>>53384445
Yes. The symptoms are being a pretentious asshole, diagnosing your friends and thinking they like it, and talking like you're an expert to anyone who you know definitely isn't an expert and thus can't prove you wrong.

>>53383455
Path was so fucked.

>>53382696
You do realise that some preachers honestky meant well and were schizophrenic or did ritual hallucinogenic drugs? Jesus most likely was part of an astetic mushroom cult.

A fuckin druggie.

>>53382696
>oh man some people here are treating orphans badly and even killing babies - I hate that shit, I'm an orphan, people should be nice to orphans and take care of their parents, everyone should be equal and all that
>but if I just rant, no one will listen to me because the Quraysh are in power and don't want anyone questioning what they do
>If only there was some divine power that I could add to my words to make people listen to them - and not the established officials and priests, so it has to be a familiar deity, but not one of our polytheistic pantheon so I alone can speak on their behalf
>What did those Jews and Christians call their god again? Something like Allah, right?

>>53371482
Nazis and Soviets also meeant well, and in their own eyes they where serving a good cause. That didn't make them eny less evil.

>>53386939
Top tier /pol/ bait.

>>53372812
Belgium here, my grandfather used to grow kale to feed live stock.
Kinda funny to see all the health freaks go so nuts about "kale the superfood"

>>53371459
tumblrines groupthink

>>53371459
Small town witch hunts

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>>53371459
The cultists believe their god is sovereign over everything, that nothing is religiously neutral and either agrees or disagrees with their beliefs, and that all proper logic should result in their beliefs being right, any other opinion that doesn't is immediately flawed, and they will attempt to reason with you.

They believe also that everyone has the natural urge to rebel against their god, but at the same time the god predestinates people to be saved, and others to be damned. In other words, people are randomly picked to receive his grace and not be thrown into damnation. But at the same time they find it important to preach to everyone how correct they are

>>53376766
>I feed my rabbit kale
Every. Single. Time. I try to get kale from the store, my rabbits come running up to me and try to climb into the grocery bags. I have no idea how they smell it from that far away, but they always know, and if I leave it unattended for 30 seconds, it's gone.

>>53391192
So, Calvinists?
Also, that's adorable

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Like this.

bump for more discussion

>>53371459
>How to portray religious fanaticism in a way that avoids both the "rambling evil cult" and "oppressive evil church" cliches?
Are you going for negative religious fanaticism or positive religious fanaticism? Because the one that comes to mind for each is "devout followers of a conman" and "holy monastery order".

A fascination with purity that goes above and beyond what is considered "normal" for your world. Example
>fasting dry for two days after touching a corpse
>Not /ever/ saying certain words, and if someone else does, they're fightan words
>only eating, fighting, casting spells, washing, etc with one specific hand
>only sleeping on a specific type of fabric, or something like sprinkling consecrated soil on the ground where you sleep
>not wearing mixed fabrics
>only eating specific things
>only using natural light, or magical light, or torches, but just one and only one
>a day of rest where they do not do a long list of tasks.
>having certain plants/animals/what have you are sacred,

yes for the eagle-eyed, I am basing this off Judaism.

>>53386884
Allah was part of the arab pantheon

The cult leader made it all up as a hoax so he could acquire money, power and sex from gullible cultists.

Then it started working. Rituals which were literally invented by a conman are actually having the effects he lied about them having.

>The conman is the one who contacted the party to figure out what's going on.

>>53384953

>Let's needlessly prolong a war and rack up that body count by invading their island

>>53398737
And God was part of the Jewish one, doesn't change the fact that they're ascribed exactly the same qualities by all three religions

>>53372602
Not saying that big corporations aren't all on some level corrupt and manipulative, but how do you know they didn't get access to the information about the healthiness of quinoa before it got public, giving them time to restock the shelves? It seems like it would take too much effort for the food companies to force a trend, redirecting resources and effort into making sure it sticks.

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>>53383040
>>53385333
>>53386884

>>53387911
Is it a lie to say that the German populous had been manipulated into believing they were moral?

>>53371459
Just portray religious fanaticism in a positive light. If you were a decent righter that would be easy as fuck, and it is easy as fuck. Just give them a moral background and explain the situation in a way that allows for more grey area instead of a black and white good vs evil story which gives limited background knowledge.

>>53371459
Fanaticism is in large parts a real Zeal for something. So go and find some non-religious examples of someone who's zealous about something and use that as the core. I'm thinking someone like a sports player or a soccer mom. After that make sure that their religious beliefs are internally coherent. and slap it all together. Use the maxem: "scratch the paint of a liberal and you'll find an alienated fundamentalist underneath" as a good base line.

>>53382696
If you look at the rules of Judaism and imagine you're a dude trying to keep a tiny tribe of desert people alive it all starts to make sense. "Don't kill people because it hurts the group" is a lot easier to brush off than "If you kill someone YOU WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY AFTER YOU DIE". "People who eat shrimp sometimes get sick and die" turns into "Shrimp is UNHOLY and CAN NOT BE EATEN"

What I mean to say is I think most religions start as ways to convey philosophy (Buddhism) or just straight up a community functioning as best it can (Judaism). Then people who want power get involved, religions get exposed to scales and situations they were never meant for, and shit goes south.

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>>53371459
I like the way they did it in KonoSuba.
The bitchy, passive aggressive Aqua's worshippers are also bitchy and passive aggressive, and continually try to scam Kazuma into joining their church with schemes from "Here, take this free soap... if you join the church!" to "Oh no, this scary guy is chasinig me! And he's only afraid of church members! Good thing I have the papers to sign someone up!" and even "Hey stranger, I'd love to show YOU around town... if you join the church..."

>>53401041
Zealous =/= evil, inherently. You can be a Zealot for good in your society yet the definition of evil in another.

>>53401226
I'd say that "Zealotry for good" is still an ultimately bad thing. Its how we end up with people like the deepest crevices of tumblr who want to ship all straight men to an island.

If you're not going overboard, then you're not zealous.

>>53401341
Again, there is an in group vs out group dualism here that makes it complicated. Certain societies (like the Romans) though pederasty and slavery were fine, as do certain cultures today. I don't suppose you would, and by their definition you would be a Zealot.

See what I mean? Being a zealot is just being loyal to your own moral code.

>>53401532
I wouldn't be a zealot, I'd be a dissenter. I'd be a zealot if I forced my beliefs on others, went around freeing slaves, so on and so forth.

Zealotry isn't just holding a belief, it's being aggressive and steadfast about it.

>>53401571
>10,000 pro pederasty people move into your home town
>Town votes to legalize child fucking and slavery
>You're fine with this

You're not a dissenter you just have no spine. Going around and trying to be moral and promote morality is not inherently bad, it's worse if you allow immorality to just happen because you're apathetic to the plight of others.

>>53399314
- it's a trickster god fucking with the cult leader for kicks
- it's a benevolent sort of god fucking with the cult leader for leading people astray
- the cult leader accidentally hit upon the favored rituals of an obscure, long-forgotten god
- it's some kind of subconscious magic on the part of everyone involved

>>53401946
>"Anyone can be called a zealot if they're in thee wrong spot"
>"What if I just don't try to convince other people I'm right?"
>"Then you're a spineless amoral person"

I'm starting to see why you don't want the word "zealot" to be seen as bad.

>>53372456
JWs deny the doctrine of the Trinity, they aren't even close to Christian. The best I can give them is that they're Abrahamic. And yes they're a cult. Love bombing, isolation, central control, the whole nine yards.

Evangelical here.

>>53402031
>JWs deny the doctrine of the Trinity, they aren't even close to Christian.
you don't have to hold to some autistic-style view of how God is structured to be a Christian

>>53373786
my best friend is from a family of them. They can summon more by the dozen in about an hour from anywhere. It's weird. No holidays or birthday celebrations either outside of their own version of easter, which is more or less just a boring gathering of several hundred of them to talk about jesus.

>>53373123
>ackshewally
Dude the Jews had just come from Egypt. They knew literacy when they saw it. Assuming they were a pre-literate culture was basically a mistake made in early 1800's pseudo-archaeology, none of the evidence supports it.

>>53402012
Wut

>Hey bud me and some friend are going to gang rape some pre schoolers, you in?
>Nah man, you do what you do. To each his own, you know what I mean? Go have have some fun raping children Imma just chill here and play some video games

Yes... Yes that would make you pretty spineless. I guess you're not familiar with being an adult and feeling responisble for the plight of others, are you? If someone tells you something that is horrible and you don't try to prevent them or convince them that what they are saying is immoral, then yes, you're condoning the behavior. Moral apathy is the exact opposite of being a Zealot. It is clear you are morally apathetic. If you want to to show zealotry in a positive light then you need to understand this.

There are times for being a Zealot and times for being apathetic, being an extreme on either end is a bad thing.

>>53388654
I just think it tastes good boiled or slow cooked in a crockpot.

>>53400939
>Manipulated by Hitler men

You kiddies need to read up on history, Hitler was the centrist of his party. Hitler is the reason why the Mischling program existed and he let Jews serve in the German Army. Germany was just heavily radicalized from the Weimar Era, the residual effects of WW 1, and the spread of communion combined with disdain towards capitalism (which was blamed for the first world war)

It's a lot more complicated that just "Hitler" , same with the rise of Stalin.

>>53402141
>"Hey me and every other person in this city but you are gonna go rape some kids, wanna join us?"
>"N-no, that's wrong."
>"You saying we're all wrong?"

By your own definition being a zealot is being surrounded by people who you strongly, morally disagree with, them being the majority and the culture.

Call me cowardly, but I'm not going to loudly proclaim myself to be against the reigning culture until that's my last choice. It's not live and let live, it's survival.

>>53402315
>"Hey me and every other person in this city but you are gonna go rape some kids, wanna join us?"
>"N-no, that's wrong."
>"You saying we're all wrong?"
literally sodom and gomorrah

>>53402053
On the contrary that is a defining feature of Christianity.

>>53402053
>you don't have to hold to some autistic-style view of how God is structured to be a Christian
Not correct. What is and what is not Orthodox has been pretty well established for running close to twenty centuries now.
>Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem,
>factorem cœli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.
>Et in unum Dominum, Jesum Christum,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
That's what a Christian *IS.* I'm not saying groups (like JWs or Mormons) that don't hold to that stuff aren't nice people, I'm not saying they don't belong to friendly belief systems, I'm not saying they'll steal your car and eat your babies. I *am* saying that there is a textbook definition of what the word "Christian" means, and JWs do - not - fit. They aren't any more Christians than I am a Scotsman just because I watch Braveheart and bought a tartan online.

>>53402315
>By your own definition being a zealot is being surrounded by people who you strongly, morally disagree with, them being the majority and the culture.

No I was trying to give you a hypothetical where being morally apathetic is bad and where asserting your beliefs are good. Sometime relativism and being apathetic is more immoral than asserting your beliefs over others. That's part of trying to paint zealots in a positive light, negative liberty is not inherenty evil.

>>53402424
>Orthodox
>Latin
I think you're messing with me

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>>53371459
Really outline the ethos of the religion you're trying to do and their metaphysical view. What gods do they worship and why? Are their gods omnipotent? What do the gods say about "sin" (in quotes since that's a very Abrahamic concept) or the nature of evil? Is there a reward in the afterlife or is there nothing? What rules or tenants do they follow and how strict are they? Is there an ascetic tradition? Do they have holidays or festivals or are those forbidden?

Finally, try and realize that your fanatics are trying to be good people. Their religion may distort that, but there is often a kernel of truth to what they are saying.

>>53388654
>Belgium here, my grandfather used to grow kale to feed live stock.
In America, lima beans used to be exclusively for livestock, barbeque was invented to make organ meat and tough cuts edible, and people have recently rediscovered dandelion leaves as a leafy green.
Kale was poor folk food that, as most poor folk food ends up being, was fucking good for you, hardy enough to grow easily, and when prepared right, was delicious.

>>53376843
Broccoli is so tampered with that it's as unrecognizable from it's roots as wheat and carrots are.
It's too easy to mass produce to become expensive.

>>53402528
Lima beans are the Devil's greenery. The taste awful, and I don't know why people eat them.

>>53402673
Because poor people and the Great Depression.
That's when things like chicken wings started being eaten, rather than thrown away.

>>53371532
Maybe it's just because most people where I live are assholes, but I'd consider people being overly friendly to be creepy.

>>53371745
I don't get it.

>>53402748
That's a local culture thing.
In some African cultures, it's common place for close male friends to hold hands.
In some Arabic tribes, affection is displayed physically and liberally.
In much of America, especially among males, any manner of physical affection is tantamount to insult.

>>53402849
I think in Russia they distrust people who smile in public or something.

>>53402855
I would call on Russian anons to confirm or refute it.
That said, my experience with Russian dudes is that they try damn hard to be hard.

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How about fanatical hordes dedicated to war gods?

>>53402820
Someone is burned to death for being harmful to society who the locals knew, so they baked a casserole for their mother to say "hey sorry your son was harmful to society so we had to punish him" and she was sad.

Then they walk away and are like "well he had it coming"
It's a pretty meaningless story, Foucalt is kind of a dumbass

>>53402978
>Foucalt is kind of a dumbass
and also probably a child molester

>>53402911
We have a proverb for that.

cмeх бeз пpичины пpизнaк дypaчины
>smekh bez prichiny priznak durachiny

it means something akin to "laughing with out a cause is the sign of an idiot"

Smiling is done differently. You don't smile at strangers - that's a duty smile, its insincere. You don't smile when someone smiles at you. You don't smile at work. Really, you only smile when the reason you are smiling is obvious or between people that are known associates ie. you actually care enough about them to smile.

There is more idioms and shit out there, but that's kind of a surface level reasoning.

>>53403051
So smiling is reserved for moments when EVERYONE is smiling for a reason, and your boys.
Alright, syncs up to what a Russian bro told me.
How does that work with shit like service industries? What is the expectation of Russian politeness to customers and such folk?
>this is educational

>>53403051
a lot of that seems to be the case here too, it's just that we encourage people to try to actually care enough about each other to smile, and also to smile to hide how miserable they are because a lot of people take it personally if you look unhappy around them
>You don't smile at work.
does that apply to service jobs? because I would think you'd want the customers to think you like them and like helping them

>>53403117
>a lot of that seems to be the case here too
Where is here?
In America, it's considered a mark of politeness to return gestures as they are given. Greetings for greetings, blessings for bad health, smile for a smile.
>I reserve my "easy grin" for strangers and my real smiles for social outings with my boys

>>53403117
You don't smile to customers really. Unless they are say regulars that you've gotten to know. In which case, it can be a bit more friendly. But like, say you're buying a car - the sales associate won't smile at you. You might not get a smile from the waitress or hotel staff - but that is normal for them - a smile is not considered part of the service they are providing.

Likewise, tone of voice is kind of important too. When you're smiling and your tone of voice doesn't match up it is seen as false. This extends to things like commercials and sales pitches etc.

>>53403287
>tone of voice is kind of important too. When you're smiling and your tone of voice doesn't match up it is seen as false
Go on with this?
Tonal things vary mightily with language and local custom.
>a smile is not considered part of the service they are providing
So a smile is considered an intimate gesture? Interesting... What kind of culture clash does this lead to when traveling then? I've had some incidents due to them in the past.

>>53403159
yeah, America, and it's considered rude or strange to not reciprocate, like you must be a hardass or have something on your mind if you don't smile back
>>53403287
well the mismatch is also seen as disingenuous here, but that's why people are trained (or train themselves) to put on a forced happy tone to go with their forced happy face
also it doesn't apply to everyone interacting with customers, just anyone that deals with the public (although it's always appreciated), so like a sales rep for an aluminum processing plant won't have to smile, but someone working at a grocery store has to at least try to smile

>>53398594
But it's the LAW, anon. If we stray from the law, we'll turn into decadent savages.

>>53403457
>Go on with this?
There isn't much to go on with. I don't really know how to explain it. Russians are sensitive to tone. So tone not matching facial expression is a bit off putting.

>What kind of culture clash does this lead to when traveling then?
If for example, Russians travel to say America and they see smiling faces all around they might be a bit confused. Like, "why are you smiling at me?" or potentially angering. If for example some American is beaming all the time, what's he so happy about? The constant smile can be viewed as inappropriate and insulting. Like a western smile is basically equivalent of a loud laugh - so it can be viewed that western smiles might be aimed at you. Especially if teeth are showing. It just adds to the idea that its a loud smile.

Its also worth noting, that a smile doesn't mean something happy or good happened its more tied to laughter. A happy person doesn't have to smile. A smiling person might not be happy.

>>53371459
Crusaders. Templars. Monks. Utter devotion to truth and it being reflected in their lives. Otherwise piss the fuck off, Freech.

>>53403612
>Its also worth noting, that a smile doesn't mean something happy or good happened its more tied to laughter. A happy person doesn't have to smile. A smiling person might not be happy.
Hmm, I understand that, but it was something I had to learn.
My little slice of subculture puts some value on facial expressions.
If you are happy/enjoying yourself, you smile. When you laugh, it comes from deep inside. When you are mad, you can tell a glance and know that shit is up, stay away.
My gf has resting bitch face, so unless she is actively forcing herself to smile, she has a frown on, and sometimes I can't tell if she is having a good time or not. That said, she has problems reading me at times.
Hmm, the small culture differences.

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>is catholic
>hates vampires (justifiably)
>hates protestants
>runs an orphanage
>is actually a pretty good, if fanatical, christian

>>53403974
>>hates protestants
>has no (justifiably) under it
Step it up.

>>53402484
Catholic here, while we don't use the Latin anymore, we do say the (in my case) English translation of that at Mass every week.

>>53371459

Make all the members of the religion extremely suicidal but non-threatening or violent.

>>53402424
You realize that for a long time the idea of a trinity was heavily debated, right? Arianism, for instance, considers the Son separate and subordinate to Father. Nestoranism considered Jesus as a mortal man to be distinct from his divine self. Remnants of both these sects still stick around today, even if not in their original forms. Even today there are sects that don't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity at all. The idea wasn't even well-established by the time of the early church, and came about later - nothing's been exact and definite about Christianity aside from a belief that Jesus is the messiah.

>>53404053
I mean, we're talking about Anglicans with him, that's one of the least objectionable protestant denominations - it's just the Catholic church with a few less saints and the queen instead of the Pope

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>>53402277
>trying to educate the leftytard

>>53402381
you mean current year

>>53371649
Jainism

>>53372181
Basically a Russian patriarch wanted to put the Russian orthodox back in line with the Greek Orthodox
Banned the Russian litrurgy etc creating a split - the Old Believers ran off to Siberia and even now they don't want reconciliation

Make them passionate without trying to demolish/injure itinerants of alternate views. Intelligence, charisma. But passion at the forefront.

>>53375537
They also get really shunny towards people who leave, and tend towards demanding conformity, so there's that too. Then again I don't have much experience with mormons so I could be wrong there.

>>53402484
This was defined at the Council of Nicaea, way way back in 325, and over 700 years before the east-west schism. They still spoke Latin back then because that was the official language of the still extant roman empire.

>>53382696
>The root of all religion is power and greed.
No, you fedora-tipping retard, it isn't. Had you phrased it 'the root of ORGANIZED religion is power' then you might have had a point. Religion stem from the very human and important need to not only understand but also have some meaning. Early humans were found to dig graves and leave objects in them, showing that they had begun to question what happen to them after death.

Early humans had to find some sort of reasonable explanation for stuff like lightning, fire, storms as well as answer what happen after death. As it happen, religious belief also has the bonus effect of being pretty good for social cohesion. Oh sure, you'll tip your fedora and go "But religion cause war and violence!". Yes it does, but the thing is that such things are inherent to human nature. We are not rational creatures. The fact that we live in an era of such immense and rapid technological advancement while people still act like fucking zealot shows this. The fact atheist even begin displaying religious zeal about ideas show that while they may not call it a 'god' they sure do have blind faith in their ideology.

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>>53371459
Just make it so they are so devoted to their god and religion that they literally do not care about death at all. Like, have one of them as an NPC that frequently shows up in the party's adventures and stuff and at one point during a fight he just runs right into the sword of an enemy in order to kill it, and its later explained that his order does that all the time. They just believe so much that their god is waiting for them in the afterlife that life itself has no meaning. Its just passing time until heaven, so if you get the opportunity to shorten the wait in a non-wasteful way, its encouraged that you go for it.

>>53371459
DUDE NO SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU HAVE TO SACRIFICE TO ISHTAR RIGHT NOW OR SHE WILL RELEASE THE GATES OF THE UNDERWORLD AND THE HUNGERING DEAD WILL KILL US ALL.

Basically, they're fanatic because they have very real god problems, and you have to join them, because if ishtar fucking catches you disrespecting a whore we're all dead.

>>53410646
Kinda want to know the story behind that dog's vest now

>>53410780
So like how Aztecs were all 'we have to sacrifice someone every day to make sure the sun rises?' No one ever stopped sacrificing, so they had no idea it wasn't necessary?

>>53375813

I knew some metalheads in the 80s who dabbled in satanism. They said that in any cult, nearly everyone was there for the lulz and because it was forbidden and edgy. But there was always one guy who was way too into it and would push everyone to go way farther than everyone else was comfortable with. The ones who get in the scary shit are the ones where nobody wants to look like a chicken, or where the crazy one is too persuasive or scary.

>>53401095
>"If you kill someone YOU WILL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY AFTER YOU DIE".

The whole concept of heaven and hell are Christian additions. Judaism is very vague about an afterlife, and it's never presented as a reason to do good.

>>53402484

It's all Greek to me.

>>53384953
>>53400016
>Let's nuke that island and show that emerging giant northern superpower that we're nothing to fuck with

FTFY

>>53401095
Exceptthe Torah doesn't say anything about what happens to you after you die. No, it's "God says don't murder. Also, He says to execute murderers". Nothing so esoteric as an afterlife, just rules and clear consequences for breaking them.

>>53384445
Yes. Knowledge is no protection. They may even realize that it may be a nocebo effect, but the symptoms are still real.

>>53371852
There was a fundamentalist family near me that had one kid die before the state stepped in, but then since this is America, the state promptly stepped back out and let their second kid die.

>>53398594
That's... a very odd list to be based in Judaism. Only four of them are familiar to me as Jewish things, and I was raised Orthodox. Further, it's a particular mix of fabrics (wool and linen), not any blend. But whatever.

>>53371459
How about the evils of corporate megachurches?
And mormons, and neo-pagans, and buddhists, anything but the Good Ol' Catholic church. You can always make something evil by pushing it to the extreme. Imagine a fascist society that would use buddhist teachings as a way of suppression of the self. I mean, buddhist dystopian scenarios already exist IRL, see Myanmar.

>>53402978
Ah. I also didn't get it because "his mother" was unclear. I thought it meant "thr casserole-baker's mother" and was quite confused.

>>53372557
But quinoa is fuckin delicious

>>53377074

Here's an example, a rabbi speaking to a jewish professors group at cambridge:

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/1848653/jewish/Is-Genetic-Engineering-in-the-Bible.htm

On that site are a few other videos on this, some are more watchable than others.

>>53404520
exactly? he said Orthodox which is a different thing, unless we're getting into some autistic pissing match about who's more original and oldschool

>>53398737
You mean "Al-lat"

I think.

Well, she was also in there. But Allah literally means "The God" (Al-ila)

>>53380303

Yeah having the crazies prove to be right is probably the best route for a game.

>>53376702

This? It's like all the bad wolf graffiti you see everywhere. It's just something that looks cool that people latched onto. It doesn't mean anything.