Hey tg, I'm curious what you guys consider explicitly high

>>53365583
Blaster casters

>>53365583
>And as the Great Evil fell, the good king ruled for a hundred years, beloved by all.

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>>53365583
Drastically altered physics, a la Discworld or Skies of Arcadia, where the basics of how things operate is totally different than what you'd find in the real world.

>>53365583
To me, the definition is based entirely off of the focus of the setting, so if you have a giant world with multiple civilizations, and the game/story moves from one to the other, the low/mid/high fantasy rating will change, if they are vastly different enough.

Classification goes like this:
>Low Fantasy:
People are basically living ordinary lives akin to that of sometime during human history in the real world. Whatever time period is, almost everyone is living according to an approximate standard of that time period, are mainly concerned with the same problems as people of that period were, and almost everyone's job is exactly the same as it would be in that time period.
The only difference is from historical setting, is the existence of some very minor, fringe magic users, like a single wizard who lives some two hundred or more miles off in some mountains, maybe the occasional reclusive druid, some fortune tellers and magic items are so rare, there's more members of nobility than magic items (Which in turn generally are very powerful).

>Mid Fantasy:
Same as Low Fantasy, but magic is much more "available". Most people can't afford magic, but Dukes and above are likely to have a court wizard or at least some scholar who can get them in touch with at least a single wizard college. People are aware of these magic users, and some may even live amongst them, though they're always apart, most people not understanding them and their strange ways. Nobles have no trouble hiring magic users to help avert flooding/etc and magic items while not common, are something that can be found in most larger towns.

>High Fantasy
This is the point where magic is so readily available that it changes the dynamics of the setting. Wizardry is so wide spread and so common, that wealthier landowners have wizards or alchemists employed to help boost their crops. Sailing ships regularly have mages on board whose responsibility is to ward off storms and ensure good winds, so on.

>>53365583
I think it depends on how different from reality the setting is without relying on science (that would enter sci-fi/sci-fan's turf, or modern fantasy).

The farther you are from reality, the more fantasy it is. High fantasy and low fantasy are extremities, and so I think they can be instinctively grasped, but mid fantasy is harder to define. I'd say mid fantasy would have magic or fantastical creatures in a common citizen's reach after a few decades of work, opposed to a single decade (or less) someone in high fantasy would need.

>>53365583
I consider the low/high/mid fantasy styles to be based on two different types of scales. One is magic, like >>53365925 said. But another is scale.

Low Fantasy will see you stuck in one region of a country, usually. At best, you'll be traversing the entire country you're in, but anything higher up than that would be reserved for royalty and nobility. Normal people may never leave their home towns, and most never leave their region.

Middle fantasy is continental. You will most likely be moving from country to country, and solving disputes that involve multiple nations. Royalty and nobility move between countries with impunity, and regular people most likely see at least one other country in their lifetime.

High Fantasy becomes not only world wide, but planar-wide. Your characters will be solving either world wars or extra-dimensional threats, and Royalty is usually connected to a God in some way or another. Normal people could easily move throughout their continent, or even their world, but normally don't get involved in other planes of reality.

>>53365925
>>53366125
>Lord of the Rings is not high fantasy according to those gentlemen right here

>>53366143
You do realize that Lord of the Rings is a relatively grounded, deeply religious book that is about themes of what defines a Man, what it is to live a good life, the grandness of civilization and humanity and so on; and isn't the least bit concerned about impressing people with its grand displays of otherworldly powers, except for when it serves to support its themes, right?

Also, first Anon here, and whether by my definition it is High Fantasy, depends very much on the Era and location. As I very specifically said, within the setting, the level of fantasy can differ. The Shire in the 3rd Era, is not the same as Númenor in its glory days. Which in turn is not the same as Moria or The Lonely Mountain in their glory days.

>>53365583
Depends on by what definition you are going. Here in /tg/ it usually means lots of magic, but the actual definition ment the scope of the conflict.

A low fantasy game was centered around mundane struggles, such as politics, war and other such things one could expect in a historical/semi-historical setting, but with elements that don't exist in reality, hence the fantasy. Meanwhile the High-fantasy scope often had its main point of struggle to be high-stakes world defining conflict of fantastic forces, like an ancient evil awakening, a demon invasion or some evil warlock doing a ritual to ascend to godhood. So its actually a matter of scale, not "magical" elements.

>>53365583
Cheachvik and Chongonius Acesention of Vapors
A shaman and Druid protecting a scared grove from Lawful Buzzkill Paladins

Exclusive to high fantasy
>Casting magic that can be used when you want it with little preparation and isn't something that only an extremely esoteric minority of people can do
>Extreme magic like teleportation, invisibility, instant healing, most types of enchantments
>Correct mythology concerning gods/creation
>Active gods that humans can comprehend, ambiguous eldritch forces are excluded
>Civilizations and monsters coexist in the same region for centuries and neither wipe eachother out
>Magic that would be extremely effective for X but no one does it because the author doesn't want them to

Mid-fantasy casting magic:
>A. Can only be done by an extreme minority of people, its existence could easily be denied by its low presence. May require intensive study or rare genetics.
>B. Is not cast for a moment's convenience, requires some sort of preparation/ritual/sacrifice, may fail, results may be ambiguous. Can't do it in combat.

Low fantasy casting magic:
>Can only be done by an extreme minority of people, its existence could easily be denied by its low presence. May require intensive study or rare genetics. Is not cast for a moment's convenience, requires some sort of preparation/ritual/sacrifice, may fail, results may be ambiguous. Can't do it in combat.

>>53367041
forgot to add, this isn't meant to be a criticism of high fantasy (although I much prefer my definition of mid fantasy), high fantasy just doesn't care about realism and would rather convey a story/atmosphere/aesthetic/fun etc

>>53366940
I don't know if you can remove magic that easily, as those fantastic forces are birthed by- or are magic themselves in High Fantasy.
You wouldn't call a story that is the Holy Crusades "High Fantasy" just because there is a seer who who predicts the movement of the Templars in the court of the Abbasid Caliph.
At least I doubt you would.

>>53367116
Exactly that's a perfect example of Low Fantasy. Now if the Seer had a prophesy that the Caliph would open the ark of the covenant on its bid to ascend to godhood but that would allow an army of demons to conquer the Earth? That's High Fantasy, the stakes are higher (global in this case) and the magical elements are first and foremost even if the rest of the setting and the story lack any abundant in your face type of magic.

>>53367266
And how is that not a different version of "Lots of magic?"

I get that there are people who run lots of magic settings where contrary to all reason and logic, the fact that obscene cosmic powers are within reach and capable of widespread application, but no one uses them, but just because they are shit at understanding how inevitably a great many people throughout the history of the setting would twist these powers for epic scale, doesn't mean it's not High Magic.

Also, even if it's not an epic battle that brings great destruction, it can easily be High Fantasy. Take Treasure Planet for example with its Spelljammer cranked to 11 setting, but with the story simply being Treasure Island, the greatest threat being that a group of pirates might be able to pillage without consequences.

>>53365662
What are some good TTRPG settings that are hugely different to normal settings/reality?

Other than Planescape.

Strange world shapes preferred, if possible.

>>53367559
Snake-world.
Instead of planets you have colossal serpents that weave through an ocean(where the night is found below the water, and the day above).

>>53365583
I think traditionally "High Fantasy" referred not only to magic and scale but an overarching sense of mysticism and a Good vs Evil. The heroes are noble pillars of goodness, the villain is a grand evil threatening to destabilize the entire world. Like >>53365607 says, the High King is good, the Orcs are all evil.

It's black-and-white morality, a nice fantasy in the "fantasizing about a different world" kind of sense, not just "elves and wizards and kingdoms". It is nice to slip into a world where the Good Guys are nice and heroic and sexy, and the Bad Guys are so intrinsically evil there's no remorse in wiping them out, and I think there definitely a place for this kind of thing.

From what I understand people started rejecting the simplistic morality and grand scale, and in contrast became "low fantasy". From there it spiraled into scales and shit.

>>53365583
Magic used for mundane things. Magical plumbing, magical cooking, magical busywork.

Most people either know how to use magic or know someone who does.

>>53367650

Does that mean settings where the Good Guts are nice and heroic and sexy but the bad guys run the rest of the spectrum are what constitute mid-fantasy?

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>>53367559
Dungeons: The Dragoning

It's a bit planescapy but everything else too.

>>53367116

What if the Holy Crusaders are trying to stop Saracen Hitler from exterminating anyone that wasn't the master faith and were the only thing in the way of him from doing so?

>>53367041
In your opinion, what are the best systems for mid/low?

My understanding so far what defines High Fantasy from mid fantasy is plot on a grand scale along with clear breaking of physics to extensive degrees.
Not as cut and dried as I'd expected, but thank you.

Casting: Safe, Reliable, Easy
High Magic: Pick 3
Middle Magic: Pick 2
Low Magic: Pick 1

Scope:
High Scope: Planet-wide, Planar-wide
Middle Scope: Country-wide, Continent-wide
Low Scope: Region-wide, County-wide

Level of fantasy is average of those two
So if magic is hard/rare but the players still can do things with planet wide consequences then it's medium fantasy
Extremely easy magic but a very narrow scope (all the adventures are in one country) then it's also medium

>>53368190
This, for all of the great old ones this!

>>53368204
You mean basically what the reasoning for the actual Crusades was, even though in retrospect it's debatable how correct the sentiment really was?

Also what you're suggesting pretty much happened in Japan after the Tokugawa Shogunate rose to power, and even before it with the Ikko Ikki revolution and its subsequent extermination.
Would that make Japan a land of High Fantasy with the addition of some minor magic elements?

>>53366143
At the end of the 3rd age, it really isn't compared to what we've seen since. Elves are fucking off, dwarves are nearly all dead, hobbits are nonmagical, there are like three wizards in the relevant world. It's closer to GoT than Greyhawk, that's for sure, and people still call GoT low fantasy.

>>53368179
Honestly I think the original concept of High Fantasy was never really meant to be part of any "Spectrum" and more than there's an opposite to, say, Lovecraftian Horror or a Chick Flick. Originally it was just one thematic and setting-specific subgenre.

Personally I think having Superman-style Good Guys and a variety of bad guy morality would be complex enough to mark it as "Not High Fantasy".

As evidenced by this thread I don't think a lot of people really use the old definition anymore, at least, not in the Tabletop Gaming community. It might still be around in, like, literary criticism and the likes.

>>53373142
I don't think any real-life conflict is going to be as clear-cut as High Fantasy. Even when your enemies are the Nazis, the Allies did some pretty shitty things themselves.

Real life is complicated and disempowering. That's the draw of High Fantasy, I think.

High Fantasy tends to deal with conflicts and themes that are all encompassing and world defining in nature. The stakes usually revolve around the continuation or nature of society and existence.

High fantasy furthermore tends to have societies and world's that are vastly different from our own, with natural laws and concepts that function differently.

Low Fantasy tends to deal with more personal themes or on a smaller scale. It's worlds, though possibly quite alien, function according to rules roughly analogous to our own.

>>53373492
Yeah, I agree. That's why I pointed out that just the fact that there is some grand religious war going on, it doesn't mean it's automatically High Fantasy.
Though to me, the simplicity of morals is not really a factor in it. There can exist High Fantasy with cut and dry morals, but also with complex morals. It just depends on the flavour.

High/Low fantasy to me is just a third axis on the Noble/Grim///Bring/Dark setting alignment.

Giving the riches of the local Evil boss/group to the people.

1. All those metals and gems can wreak havoc on the local economy, if the local populace is isolated enough that wealth you just gave them has become worthless.

2. Bandits will hear word of your deeds and take everything that isn't bolted down.

3. The ruling Government would here word of this and tax them back to they're previous financial standing

>>53365583
High fantasy is set in an alternate world with vastly different rules than the real world, low fantasy is set in either the real world or a world with similar rules to the real world.

>>53374338
This is the textbook definition and the one that makes the most objective sense. Why'd it take so long for someone to post it? Everything else (Like basing it on how much magic their is) is arbitrary qualifications based on personal taste