/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

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Does the existence of brass and bronze dragons imply the existence of zinc and tin dragons?

>>53353504
Yes, but they're extinct.

I need a +1 Str, Con or Int Feat and already have Con Save, what's a good choice? Heavy Armor Mastery?

>>53353504
Or bismuth.

>>53353548
HAM.

>>53353548
HAM, people who tell you it doesn't scale don't realise that even at high levels 80% of things have non-magical P/S/B attacks and make 2-3 attacks per round. High levels it's easily at least 6DR per round in most fights if you're a main melee guy, it adds up fast.

>>53353548
That's basically the only choice you have.

>>53353572
Yeah. HAM is great but as I always say, the reason it's not used much is because it conflicts with obligatory weapon feats/isn't usable on barbarian/clerics and people who've obtained armor other ways aren't actually in a position where they're trying to tank anyway.

>>53353585
Basically only Shield Master Fighters and Paladins can fit it in yeah. Which is kind of sad.

A Fighter X/Bearbarian 3 still gets the Bears resistance while raging in heavy armour though, plus Reckless Attack and all that. Which could be pretty fun.

>>53353604
Unless someone's strength stat is odd.
Paladins will probably be too busy with PAM and maybe sentinel or upping charisma, or they'll at least have to wait until level 8.
A shieldmaster fighter might also have decided to be dex but they could be strength and it does seem like the sort of thing they'd go for.

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About to start some modules for a paladin and priest party. How would you make fighting undead/dark fairy/other grim stuff more interesting, /5eg/?

>>53353604
>A Fighter X/Bearbarian 3 still gets the Bears resistance while raging in heavy armour
No, he doesn't.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/784135639730049025

>>53353632
What modules?

Have them be part of orders that suppress the existence of undead, dark fey and the other grim stuff.

What have you planned so far?

How do you guys make maps/generate a basis to make a world

What's the difference between the Barbarian's Intimidating Presence and just Intimidating someone during combat? Ignoring that Charisma isn't the stat you focus on for Barbarian, but Intimidating Presence seems like it just gives you Intimidate without having to have to take the skill proficiency?

>>53353726
It's a really, really shitty ability and has no good purpose in combat. Outside of it it makes them make a Saving Throw rather then a skill check, which can be cool and more likely to work.

The main reason to use it imo is intimidating people who get in your way a bit easier and more dramatically.

>>53353496
playing a Tielfing order of the knife we're starting at level three what disciplines should I take as my first three?

>>53353764
Well you only have two, I'd recommend Brute Force and an out of combat one, maybe Nomad's one with "6000 teleports".

>>53353504
>Plutonium Dragon

>>53353726
Besides the fact that it forces the opponent to make a saving throw, it really is a terrible way to add something you should be able to do normally as a class feature. I guess it's true that not all barbarians are half orcs who automatically get proficiency in intimidate though.

Barbarians seem to get a "flavor" ability on level 10, so I suppose it's meant to just let you bully people outside of combat, since using your whole action to intimidate a single enemy is a waste.

>>53353813
From that Immortal's Handbook written by epileptic monkeys?

>>53353764
I mean, what kind of character is it? What will you be doing?
If you're just asking 'which one is the best one', go Psychic Assault and Ego Whip the big guy every turn, or whatever

I just realised I have no Saving Throw cantrips on my Wizard. Only Firebolt and Shocking Grasp for damage, what's a good option to pick up at level 4?

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>>53353822
>>53353813
From the monster manual.

>>53353834
Close combat, sneaking/porting around and maybe some awakened discipline stuff.
So if I'm starting with two I'm thinking brute force and porting discipline for nomads

Overall I'm think nomad, awakened with some immortal stuff to help with melee.

>>53353879
Wait, I'm a moron, that was plutonium.

>>53353897
You can redeem yourself by giving us stats for a thorium dragon.

>>53353892
Sounds about right for a Soul Knife. It's worth noting that with Psionic Weapon and your subclass ability you can get +7 weapons.

Also at about level 8 you should try picking up Magic Initiate Wizard. Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are just free extra damage and you could grab Find Familiar or any other level 1 spell you think will help.

>>53353879
Daily reminder fuck this mary sue 'You thought this was a beggar when you tried to rob them? It was actually rocks fall you die but there's no way of knowing that because it's magic!' dragon.

>>53353913
Really I thought psionic weapon didn't work with the blades thanks for that info. For back story I'm thinking former bodyguard turned investigator.

>>53353960
Ha, literally the same as mine except I'm a Halfling.

Have fun anon, you chose the best Mystic.

>>53353972
One of my friends in the group is playing a fighter in the same investigative organisation. So we basically do buddy cop film references in fantasy setting.

>>53353902
Thorium dragons aren't really that impressive unless you cast Cone of Neutrons at them

>>53354035
>So we are basically going do buddy cop film references in fantasy setting.

The Gallery of Angels from OotA is fucking horrific.

Why would the pcs go there?

>>53353585
It's basically just a coincidence if a feat is useful for any class other than fighter and rogue.

>>53353663
>>53353663
…yeah, I have lots of work to do before metaplot and setting get any decent. Brb reading on 3.5 divine ranks and real church history.

Dang, summer is almost here and I feel like I might only start DMing in July \ August. Well, better than nothing.

>>53354090
explain

>>53353726
You don't actually use a charisma (intimidation) check to make someone Frightened, in combat or otherwise, though I suppose you could.

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>>53353948
Next time don't rob a beggar

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>>53353902
What, in D&D terms?

Well, um... okay, here's an attempt at one. I'm not good at this though.

I imagine a Thorium Dragon to lurk in the underdark, burrowing through into caverns to feed on the various horrors inside. It especially likes feeding on aberrations, so is rarely encountered near the surface.

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>be stuck with a shit DM for months
>shit DM goes away for a couple of weeks on holiday
>I get to DM a bit of the campaign I've been planning for ages with the same players
>everyone loves it to shit
>great times had by all
>tfw shit DM is back in a week

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>>53354150
Your sins are absolved.

>>53354124
Why reading up on 3.5 divine ranks?

Planning on statting a god's avatar? Which one/s?

So Bahamut and Tiamat are married right? How does that relationship work out?

>>53354144
Fuck you, jeebus wannabe.

>>53354129
Read up on its entry.

Is there any chance of more mike schley maps being added to the mega?

>>53354176
Tiamat realized that Bahamut is a terrible and divorced.

>>53354176
They're brother and sister

Well, they're actually two halves of a previous dragon god, but close enough

Basically considering adding in magic horseless carriages for my "westernish" setting.
Was going to have them be fuelled by magic, though I would like them to actually need to be taken into town to be fuelled or something like that, not unlimited. Whats a good justification for this?

>>53354231
Wheel and axle maintenance
Magic is all well and good, but the wear and tear of the dusty road can break down most anything.

>>53354262
I kind of meant a quantifiable thing if you know what I mean, like their fuel could move them a certain amount of hexes (except i wont give them the map with hexes on it lmao) so they know when to go back. I might drop it, might be tedious micromanagement for the sake of it

>>53354296
Well, wheel wear is a quantifiable thing.

It can simply be that the engine is only reliable up to a certain point, and beyond that characters 'can' continue to use it but they risk breaking down by a roll.

I want a clockwork/gear setting and having it in Mechanus, but I am unsure of what to fight other than the modron.

>>53354231
some kind of liquid magic. Ectoplasm?

>>53354174
Trying to develop setting's cosmogony\metaplot, possibly with tropes I saw in various media.

So far I've got an astroengineering-scale worldmachine anonymously powering everything (not without its own flaws), and I have to model so-called deities' impact on the material plane and each other, also taking into account history of material realm's geological, biological, etc. changes.

Sounds pretty autistic, I guess. But interesting nonetheless. Otherwise antagonists will be antagonists just because, and this seems bland.

>>53354231
You might want to check out elementally-powered vehicles from Eberron.

>>53354347
I forgot Eberron is a thing. Whats the best book to read for it?like which edition has the best Eberron

Did they just never do anything past Psionics Take 2?

>>53354328
Inevitables
Formian colonies
Clockwork replicas of other creatures
The law

>>53354414
The full mystic class is being tested now, probably the last one before they release a official version in a book.

>>53354347
Sounds pretty cool tbqh. Let me know if you need any help statting up god's avatars.
Might even encourage me to finish writing up Lathander's avatar's statblock.

>>53354433
>remove nomad
>buff soul knife
>give immortal extra attack at 5
>limit disciplines to only their orders disciplines
>rework psionic mastery
>regain psionic points on short rest equal to hit die spent on hit points

>>53354577
>>limit disciplines to only their orders disciplines
What a terrible idea.

>>53354090
literally just went to the gallery of angels last night., and duh, it's to get the stuff we need for the other thing.

>>53354373
I've only read 3.5 so can't say anything on 4e, and there are no materials for it in 5e yet. However, author keeps a blog with lots of articles: http://keith-baker.com/
>>53354520
Sure. Did you post your work somewhere?

>>53354337
Should make it hard magic, like coal.

>join campaign as hand crossbow fighter
>it uses critfumbleslol
>i'm the only multiattacker except the war cleric
>fun times weren't had

>>53354944
So Deadlands' ghostrock, essentially.

We weird west now, boys.

>>53354347
Run it in Eberron, let them be Silver Flame or Sovereign Host guys ousting Blood of Vol and Emerald Claw out of Karrnath and wherever else those jerks hide

Is there a corpse explosion spell in 5e or am I thinking of a video game

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>>53354373
start with "campaign setting", then "five nations", then whatever you wish

>>53355631
Yeah, it's in Diablo 2.

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Boys, I want to play a hard rock star here featuring bard/barbarian multiclass. How to do it properly?

Nothing can beat Persuasion/Intimidation/Performance done with a sick axe guitar solo, I think. Wat do

>>53354176
They are either halves of Io or its children that were supposed to procreate and make overperfect dragons, but their characters didn't fit.
So now both want to prove that "I AM BEST AND PERFECT"

Got a question. Is Green Flame Blade too strong for a racial bonus cantrip?

I have a friend that has a high elf rogue that used to be a ranged based character but now that he got to Lv5, it's just using his rapier for 2d8+4 plus 1d8 to a nearby target.

It just seems rather powerful for a Lv5 character to do that every round.

>>53355699
Its a risk vs reward thing, either they can hang back with a bow and shoot or get in melee range to GFB.

>>53355699
It's sort of powerful, but you also need a second target nearby, so it can be kind of situational.

Besides, characters get a lot more effective when they reach level 5, so him being rather powerful is to be expected.

>>53355699
Compared to using a hand crossbow with crossbow expert, it's much weaker.

>>53355823

He's doing the same damage as a fighter with extra attack but also gets an extra 3d6 with sneak attack damage. He just seems to be doing a shit ton of damage.

>>53354154
Sit down with everyone and ask, do you want to keep playing my campaign or go back to shit DMs campaign?

>>53355870
Sneak Attack is conditional, and fire damage is the most commonly resisted type.

If you're the DM, you easily have ways of lessening the impact of GFB without fucking him over completely.

What are some good forest encounters? My PCs are traveling from one town to the next and I want to liven it up a little bit. Their main quest for this session will be escorting a small child back to her parents who sold her to bandits but I want to add a few quirks.

>>53354633
I'm curious why would that be a terrible idea?

>>53355966
The girl gets sidetracked and chases something she reports as a white rabbit in a suit with a pocket watch.

>>53355966
owlbear

>>53355978
There aren't enough disciplines for some orders, and Soul Knife gets shafted completely because it doesn't have any disciplines of its own.

>>53355870
He actually picked the weaker of two options. Boomblade is a lot better for rogues.
>Boomblade
>Cunning Action disengage (or dont even need to if Swashbuckler)
>Back up (ideally behind full cover)
>"lmao what u gonna do faget, follow me?"

>>53355966
Suddenly, satyrs! Use one with panpipes, or a few, depending on your party level.

>>53355870
He could take a feat or a level of wizard to accomplish the same thing.

In any case, if he misses he's not going to get any of that, so having a second attack is still useful. The fighter should get features from his class too, and he should be tougher than the rogue.

>>53356009
combining satyrs and small girls will never end well.

>>53355966
a Robin Hood and his Merry Men knockoff that are actually just dickish bandits pretending to be dignified.

>>53355978
Soul Knife doesn't even have disciplines if I recall correctly. Your Order should be a bonus, not a limiter.

>>53355966
Some kind of fey creatures appear and want to buy the child. Doesn't even have to end in a fight.

They run across a traveling group of jesters or a circus.

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>>53356050

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>>53356009

>>53355870
A fighter at level 5 can make up to 4 attacks in a round and add +10 damage to each of those attacks and also has action surge for yet another 2 attacks and then also something extra like crits on a 19 as well as 20.

The fighter can deal, without action surge, up to (6.3+3+10)*3 + (3+3+10)*1 versus the rogue dealing a maximum of (4.5+4)+(4.5+4.5+3)+(3.5)*3 damage.

That's 31 damage versus 73.9 damage if you ignore additional class bonuses and crit chance and hit chance.

If the rogue is doing more damage than the fighter, that's more the fighter's problem, really.

>>53355699
yet the fighter could be doing 4d6+8 every turn, more with maneuvers or action surge once per rest.

the fighter could be doing 2*(2d6+14), 2d10+1d4+12 or 2*(1d8+14) with precision strike/ archery and GWM/SS/PAM and outdamage anyone ever, forever.

>>53356083
Now I'm imagining either a really powerful fey entity who looks like John Belushi or a satyr who looks like him.

>>53356087
>Back when Chris Hansen was young
Have you seen him recently? The man looks old. Terribly old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOBgE10sEQE

If you multiclassed Monk and Immortal Mystic, which AC would take priority? DEX + WIS or DEX + CON?

>>53355966
Druids that don't want you cutting through sacred groves and make you take the long way around.

>>53356116
>Fat

What is it with actors doing this? First Russel Crowe now Chris, he also looks about the way you'd expect in the face. I was hoping he'd be balding a match the people he catches more, just so one could look him in the eye and say "you know if you weren't on TV anyone would confuse the two of us, or atleast assume you were just like me."

>>53356170
You're allowed to take the higher of the 2.

>>53353948

So you're a murder hobo who didn't like it when you were deservedly punished for your disgusting ways ?

>>53356203
Neato

>>53356261
let's all laugh at him!

>>53356261
It's nothing like that.

I just believe that the ability to turn into anything without any real problems, even that of a tiny creature, is stupid.

Even something big and powerful should have downsides to it, and 'you can't be tiny, fit into small places and integrate easily into human society' is a good one. It also discourages gods from just fucking with everything all day long.

It also prevents bullshit like 'this peasant is a god in disguise' because that sort of thing follows no logic or logic the players can execute. If the players could see 'Oh, I'm picking up a divine aura nearby but I don't know where it is? Oh, this beggar has horns..? Oh, this and this' so that they could possibly, reasonably deduce it, it would be a lot more fun. Otherwise it's like a murder mystery except the murderer is 100% perfect and leaves no evidence.

In fact, it's bullshit mechanically, too. An ancient gold dragon can, with a bit of luck, stop time completely until they run out of good luck.

>>53353948
Could be worse.
>Rapscallion tries to rob a wandering hobo
>Bum is a GOO puppeting around a body to learn about the world/for a lel
>Would-be Thief gets fucking erased

Plot twist: I was the bum, level 20 Mystic Immortal

>>53356329
>I just believe that the ability to turn into anything without any real problems, even that of a tiny creature, is stupid.
you understand he's a god, right?

>>53356329
Sorry, that should be 'stop time at will and wish at will', not just 'stop time until they have bad luck once a day'.

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>it's another all DMs are such dicks they'll do a cheese combo and that's why dragons shouldn't be allowed to x

>>53356329
maybe don't go around murdering hobos? That will stop a lot of the issues you are having.

>>53356329
He's a fucking Elder Dragon God and the classic trope of god's is that they can turn into mortal beings and trick humans through doing so. That's a story as old as stories.

Sounds like you're also a balance cuck then who believes everything should be perfectly attuned to neatly fit into a 5x5 combat encounter for you to easily beat , loot and move on from.

Please stop treating RPGs as a video game.

>>53356329
Maybe don't play Fantasy games then,anon. It sounds like you're trying to impose conditions on fantastical elements of the game that have no reason to be as constricted as you want them to be.

Alternatively, stop being a murderhobo.

>>53356404
At least it wasnt Zeus, he'd probably have fucked him in the ass while shapeshifted into an alligator or some other weird-ass creature.

>>53356419
and then the fucked up rape babies appear.

>>53356386
Okay. So you stop murdering hobos.

But there's no reason there aren't, say, evil gods in beggars bodies going around 'rocks fall, you dying' on adventurers because the adventurers aren't evil?

>>53356411
This isn't about fantastical elements. This is storymaking 101. You don't have the 100% perfect murderer. The murderer has flaws, and people can exploit that.

>>53356433
>But there's no reason there aren't, say, evil gods in beggars bodies going around 'rocks fall, you dying' on adventurers because the adventurers aren't evil?

Don't play with bad DM's.

>>53356433
>There's no reason there aren't, say, evil gods in beggars bodies
Big Evil isn't petty.

>>53356433
Oh, and, you could say 'but they're a god, they don't NEED flaws'
And, sure, you can get away with that if the god isn't fucking right in front of you in person, at which point having somebody who can do whatever the fuck they like with the players is just 'Here's a railroad NPC. You can't do anything to them but talk to them and grovel'

>>53356444
But in terms of story integrity, if there's a good NPC pretending to be a beggar that kills evil things just wandering around, how come therre can't be an evil NPc pretending to be a beggar that kills good things just wandering around?

>>53355433
>critfumbleslol
That's some top-tier cancer. I'm sorry anon.

>>53356454
>But in terms of story integrity, if there's a good NPC pretending to be a beggar that kills evil things just wandering around, how come therre can't be an evil NPc pretending to be a beggar that kills good things just wandering around?
if the evil npc is sitting around waiting for something to fuck with it, just like the good npc, then it doesn't matter. Don't go around murdering hobos for fun and you won't have that problem.

If the evil npc is actively searching for shit to stomp, well, that's how campaigns get started.

>>53356502
It's entirely plausible there may be a legitimate reason they might want to kill a beggar.

Say, a player is a wizard that poses as a decent wizard that sometimes uses necromancy for the greater good, but it turns out they get their corpses by downing people that society doesn't need such as homeless people.

What should happen is that authorities or the other players find out and then something happens off of that.
What shouldn't happen is 'Lol, no, the beggar goes super saiyan 3 and punches you, you explode into gore'

Of course the DM wouldn't put bahamut there in the first place if they didn't want to 'rocks fall, you die' on the necromancer but the problem is that I just don't think it adds anything good to a story even in the times when the players aren't going to attack them. It's nothing but 'Here's a reminder that literally anyone could secretly be overpowered as fuck and disintegrate you in one round' at which point the players should be thinking 'maybe we should stop being adventurers?'

What's a character you've always wanted to play?

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Trying to stat Vertigo...Not sure if any of you ever played Primal Rage, but her background is only one paragraph. (If you want payment for this I can offer drawfag abilities at the end of this post...)

http://primalrage.wikia.com/wiki/Vertigo

I was thinking of trying to tone her down to level 9ish goddess that has lost substantial power and working her up through campaigns. Full power stated ideas would be interesting too. Trying to think of abilities for using sacrifice or blood magic,

Current thoughts: Sorcerer class, but custom class is fine too, I'm open to anything.

Passive defense against mind controlling abilities or spells - Spell save DC or insane for 1d4 rounds.
Using sacrificial/blood magic to identify an item or perform long term spells - no idea how to use this in combat though.
Ability to alter self at will to other humanoids.

Feel free to tell me my ideas are trash and make up your own. I just want possibilities.

I am a so-so drawfag and could try to draw you something as payment for some creative/thought out ideas. Just put the request in with the description/stats/ideas you have and I'll look into it. Please no porn, though I have no trouble with blood and violence.

Thanks

pic related is character but not my work, I don't sculpt.

>>53356551
>but it turns out they get their corpses by downing people that society doesn't need such as homeless people.

>greater good
>drowning innocents

Maybe don't go murdering hobos?

>>53356551
>that sometimes uses necromancy for the greater good
Oh, so this is bait.

>you see officer, I HAD to murder that homeless man and use his corpse as my unholy puppet! Or else the terrorists win!

>>53356582
>>53356579
>implying the greater good doesn't exist

It's perfectly valid to say 'I can kill 5 hobos to save 100 lives' and call that the 'greater good'. I'm not claiming it's something that a good character should do, I never said this wizard was good and going to get away with it or that bahamut would be fine or anything.

The point is that the necromancer in that case is a flawed PC (Wow! Flaws! A new and foreign concept?!) that could potentially add an interesting element to the party if done right (Not the 'I stab other players in the back sometimes' sort of evil PC) with the player fulling expecting their PC might get fucked over by the party paladin or something.

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>>53356573
Gnome Fey Warlock

>>53356623
why can't you just go to the local graveyard like a NORMAL necromancer? No murder needed!

>>53356637
They did, but the people there caught on and now it's a lot harder.

They also probably think they're doing society a favour by removing the homeless who do nothing but mooch off people who actually work.

>>53356616
>Then walk your ass down to the Morgue and buy a corpse like any other lisenced Necromancer!
>You DO have a lisence, right?
And then Anon was jailed for Tax Exasion. Such is life in LEville

How are swashbuckler rogues played?

>>53356694
Stab enemy> back up out of reach >repeat on next turn

>>53356694
They aren't. They're rogue: easy mode, so you don't need any description of how to play them. The only thing that even takes a bit of thought of how to use is the disengage, and that's just 'if there's a place to run to nearby, hide behind it after attacking'. Also use the at-will charm person on everything because nobody will know if you fail.

>>53356623
see, your character isn't interesting, though. You're just trying to justify your shitty character. Chances are, in a normal party, if some all-powerful god didn't blast you out of existence, your party would.

>>53356659
>They also probably think they're doing society a favour by removing the homeless who do nothing but mooch off people who actually work.
there's literally countless evil monsters you could harvest from. hell most fantasy villages have some sort of goblin/kobold den not 5 yards away. If you are killing innocent people, especially for convenience, you deserve whatever comes to you, fuck it wouldn't have to even be a god, a high level cleric or paladin could simply be getting tired of your shit and lay a trap and nuke your ass, gg no re.

>>53356720
this except you went var human for boomblade

>>53356683
of course, the punishment for tax evasion in LEville is disintegration.

>>53356756
Or High Elf, or Sorc (Dragon or Stone) 1.

>>53355966
The girl turns out to be spiders.

>>53356751
>You deserve whatever comes to you
It's already stated that the player would expect something to happen.
But literally anything but 'rocks fall, you die'. If the DM wants 'rocks fall, you die' they should just ask you to make a different character, not summon a god in person to fuck you up.

The character I'm giving is an example. To say 'characters should never kill a hobo or else they are a bad character' is stupid. To say 'characters are likely to be bad if they kill hobos' is valid, as it doesn't make that generalisation.

Evil characters can be done right, or even non-evil characters that may at some point end up killing an innocent.

Other examples might include a vampire character that has to feed on people or a warlock who needs human sacrifices.

>>53356816
or 1000 years hard labor (dont worry, they have necromancers in case your natural lifespan isn't long enough.

>>53356816
*Horrid Wilting
Gotta have a corpse to sell, and turning the body into jerky helps it keep longer.

>>53354921
I'll post it once I get it done lol.

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>>53356832
>>Other examples might include a vampire character that has to feed on people
How come you are Evil for procuring your one true bodily need? Is a mosquito evil for transmitting malaria? I don't think so, it's just how creation intended, how it was all meant to be...

>>53356099
Wat, how?

>>53356832
>The character I'm giving is an example. To say 'characters should never kill a hobo or else they are a bad character' is stupid. To say 'characters are likely to be bad if they kill hobos' is valid, as it doesn't make that generalisation.
A shitty example, your character is literally killing innocent people "just because" you have no incentive to kill the innocent, nor have you listed any reason you aren't going for the more "acceptable" targets. your character is chaotic stupid. and chaotic stupid characters deserve whatever comes to them.
>Evil characters can be done right, or even non-evil characters that may at some point end up killing an innocent.
yes they can, your example is not one of those.
>Other examples might include a vampire character that has to feed on people or a warlock who needs human sacrifices.
and if played right, neither of those are just murdering hobos on the street.

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Dumb question - would it be possible to recreate this as 5e homebrew?

Will the Plane Shift bestiaries ever be added to 5etools?

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>>53356039

Does this seem like a fair tradeoff?

>Puppet
>This body is an empty shell controlled by an extraplanar being

>Immunity to any mind-altering effect (Charm, Frightened, etc.)
>Disadvantage on saves against any spell or effect that takes direct control of the body
>Entering an Antimagic Field requires a DC 20 CON save to avoid falling unconscious until no longer in the field

>>53356987
No, that's stupid.

>>53356987
My question is why?

>Hobo gods
This guy seems like an annoying whiner, an extremely edgy one at that. I don't know if it was the DM's intention, but I would absolutely kill his ass with diguised Bahamut, and then asked not to come to the next session.

>>53356987
is this for PC use or NPC use? if it is for PC use then it is basically unplayable.

>>53356870
I'd probably trigger someone if I implied you could kill innocents sometimes and not be evil.

>>53356878
PAM+GWM.

Fighters are expected to rely on feats, they get a load more ASIs than anyone else and there are a load of feats that benefit fighter and weapons and such.

>>53356887
>if played right, neither of those are just murdering hobos on the street
Oh, so you think that 'playing right' means you always have a full bloodbank 24/7? Are you saying that there's never a time when they'll have run out of blood and desperately need something to sustain themselves? That the human sacrifices are better off being not-hobos or what?

>nor have you listed any reason you aren't going for the more "acceptable" targets

It's obvious. A defenceless hobo is on the road in the middle of nowhere with no obvious defence. Nobody will remember them.
What are your alternatives? Going onto church grounds and robbing them when clerics already know there are graverobbers around or have seen skeletons or zombies around lately? Thinking they haven't used spells that counteract the raising of dead?
You could kill goblins, but those will actually fight back, and probably aren't as lonely as this one time you see a single homeless man in the middle of nowhere. Perhaps it's been a while since the party last adventured and you're outta gobboskeletons.

Why wouldn't you take the opportunity at a free, easy corpse? "Because literally any character could secretly be a god and murder you?"

>>53357036
Because a flat "Charm, Frightened, etc." immunity wouldn't fit as well since they're meant to be weak to things like Dominate Monster, which is a Charm.

>>53356832
>The character I'm giving is an example. To say 'characters should never kill a hobo or else they are a bad character' is stupid. To say 'characters are likely to be bad if they kill hobos' is valid, as it doesn't make that generalisation.
replace the word "character" with "a erson". Does killing a single hobo make someone a bad person? Oh, yeah, definitely. Doesnot understanding that fact make someone a bad person? Not definitely, but probably.

>>53357055
God, why does fucking everybody on this board assume that because you're complaining about something that some DM used it on you as a cheap shot or something?

If people are going to make assumptions, please make assumptions on actual logical grounds beyond 'They don't like it, therefore it touched them inappropriately'

>>53357069
Let me put it this way:
Your DM doesn't pull the hobo god out because you are being reasonable and character driven.

>Thief: Fast Hands
>Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves' tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an Object action.
So, which objects exactly can I use with cunning action?

>>53357069
>>53357098
Or don't be a fucking murderhobo.

>>53357099
Don't bother, he operates on the grounds that so long as it can be justified for the "greater good" it's ok.

There's no arguing with people like that because the greater good is what ever they want it to be.

>>53356573
Any

>>53357136
You have my sympathies fellow forever DM

>>53357121
Acid, Holy Water, Alchemist's Fire Vials, Manacles, Rope (Grappling hooks too), smoke bombs, Healer Kit, Caltrops and Ball Bearings, Oil flasks (useful with the Alchemist Fire), putting Poison on a weapon, etc.

>>53357069
cows and chickens are by all means innocents, billions of innocents through history have died by 'not really evil' actions.

like, the spaniards were assholes with religious volition but their worst action ever was just carrying diseases they didn't knew existed. was that outright evil? probably not, but it doomed their all.

>>53357121
as a sort of rule of thumb, most non-magical items

>>53357121
Healer's kit and caltrops and ball bearings, I suppose? Drinking a potion or using a magic item isn't allowed, apparently.

>>53357086
Are we going to get into a philosophical argument about whether killing someone is 'always bad no matter what and it doesn't matter who you kill, when, where, why or how'?

>>53357099
The thing is, if it's a prescripted campaign that happens to include Bahamut, then... Well, I suppose the DM can say 'No, Bahamut is fucking stupid, I'm not putting them here'.

Otherwise it's a case that even though there's no players that would kill bahamut, if they knew it was bahamut it's the DM saying that in their campaign any creature could potentially be secretly an overpowered fuck that could smite their ass. Which is bad. Players shouldn't be thinking 'Oh, I don't want to hurt this goblin, it might secretly be a trickster god having a chuckle.' Of course, they won't expect that, but deep down it's a possibility.

>>53357158
>Healer Kit
What about the feature from Healer feat? Would that work?

>>53357173
>Players shouldn't be thinking 'Oh, I don't want to hurt this goblin, it might secretly be a trickster god having a chuckle.' Of course, they won't expect that, but deep down it's a possibility.
those players obviously never hear of Nilbogs

>>53357160
>Cows and chickens

PETA please go

>>53357160
Well, I guess I should say 'innocent humans'.

>>53357127
It's not being a murderhobo if you have a valid reason for doing it in a way that doesn't derail a campaign or just cause problems.

And, as before, even if you never fight hobos it's still a reminder that the story has so little integrity you can never actually be sure who anybody is.

>>53357182
Yes. It makes the feat a lot more useful.

>>53357204
>And, as before, even if you never fight hobos it's still a reminder that the story has so little integrity you can never actually be sure who anybody is.
you realize that's how many earth cultures operated right? Don't fuck with that random hobo, it could be Odin!

>>53357160
The spaniards deliberately introduced diseases. They enacted one of the worst atrocities with the Spanish inquisition.
They were asshole evil.

>>53357173
>Find a random goblin alone that doesn't immediately run from the party

Yeah I'm gonna be pretty fucking suspicious of anything involving that goblin.

Also not all problems have to be solved by murdering shit you do realize that right?

>>53357182
RAW yes, though your DM might not let you.

>>53357204
You don't have a valid reason for doing that unless you want to be an edgy vapid piece of shit.

>>53357204
>Story has so little integrity
>Religions based around gods who do exactly that
>Is used to try and get people to be nicer to each other, even the poorest man
>THIS IS BULLSHIT I HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR KILLING RANDOM HOBOS!

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>>53356573
Ancient's Paladin/Fey Tomelock multiclass, because it sounds fun and I want to be a sort of Green Knight figure that smites evil and spreads beautiful nature.

>>53357242
>>53357204
In which case your actions have fucking consequences. Don't play it like that if you can't handle being treated like a little bitch.

>>53357193
Hey, at least nilbogs are actually probably a bit fun and provoke thought. Moreso than a beggar who can permanent stop time at will by turning into archmages.

>>53357218
I think that's more a case of 'I'll go to hell if I do this' or ' other people will really hate me' or the simple fact humans generally feel bad about killing other humans in treacherous ways (i.e. not in war) unless they're psychopathic.

>>53357242
Are you saying all evil character players are always edgy?

>>53357246
I'm saying that there should be some tells you can use to identify that this man is more than a beggar. Not just 'he disintegrates your face off', but stuff like the fact he's a fucking god crammed into a tiny form that maybe has some side effects.

>>53357221
Why would the goblin necessarily be alone? The god might just be having casual conversations with other goblins and doing their best to piss the goblins off while they wait for their galactic coffee to brew.

>>53357267
Yes, actions have consequences, but they should have sensible consequences.

You kill somebody in the middle of nowhere, the party or someone on the road finds out and you get your ass smited in a battle.
Not 'rocks fall and you die because it was a super-powerful beggar'.

>>53357291
Evil characters played well aren't edgy. Stupid fucking shits are.

>>53357291
Your gamble for being a piece of shit edgy cunt.

>>53357291
Anon, have you considered, even for just a second, that you are the one in the wrong here? Because I get the feeling that if you opened your mind to that possibility, you'd find it to be rather credible.

>>53357291
>All those people telling you that you're the problem
Have you considered killing yourself yet?

>>53357291
>I think that's more a case of 'I'll go to hell if I do this' or ' other people will really hate me' or the simple fact humans generally feel bad about killing other humans in treacherous ways (i.e. not in war) unless they're psychopathic.
no, many cultures actually believed you should be kind to others and offer help JUST IN CASE it was a god, if you have ever read any mythology, ever, you would know this.
>Are you saying all evil character players are always edgy?
not at all, the examples listed above are, but I have played and seen many evil characters who aren't edgelords. The thing they have in common? They don't go around just stabbing people for no reason.
>I'm saying that there should be some tells you can use to identify that this man is more than a beggar. Not just 'he disintegrates your face off', but stuff like the fact he's a fucking god crammed into a tiny form that maybe has some side effects.
Your "tell" is to not be an edgelord and kill random people.

>>53357304
Well then, there's my point. An evil character played well could potentially have good reason to kill a beggar. This isn't assuming they just murder every beggar in sight 'for fun', this is assuming they have good reason to.

>>53357324
>>53357328
What I'm seeing is that everybody goes 'Oh, you killed a beggar, therefore you're doing it for no reason other than to be edgy and therefore you deserve for the DM to kill you immediately". Which is absolutely not what I'm saying.
I'll accept I'm wrong if I see a valid reason to that isn't a field of strawmans planted over assumptions.

>>53356573
a lizardman that has his way with defeated enemies

>>53357358
>Well then, there's my point. An evil character played well could potentially have good reason to kill a beggar. This isn't assuming they just murder every beggar in sight 'for fun', this is assuming they have good reason to.
see >>53357099

>>53357204
>It's not being a murderhobo
No it's being a hobo murderer
Which is evil. Yes murdering people, even hobos, is evil

>>53357358
What "good reason " would an evil whiny asshole have for killing a beggar?

>>53356576
I'd take the stats of a t-rex, add 9 or so levels of wildmage sorcerer, give her bite poison damage, and focus on spells that disorient and fit with the madness theme. Hypnotic pattern, dominate humanoid, etc.
Crown of Madness is shit, but if she twins the spell and turns the most powerful/best ranged damage PCs into her slaves while climbing twisting, confusing towers (difficult terrain for anyone else) it could turn into a pretty cool and scary boss fight.

If you're trying to stat her as a CHARACTER rather than a monster, yuan-ti wildmage sorc with the same general idea. Pick up some shapeshifting spells and enlarge and reduce for that big dinosnake goodness.

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Which is better
>Starting at level 1 in Rusty Dagger Shanktown and getting a good, indepth character with no need for excessive backstory
>Starting at level 5 and actually having interesting gameplay but with shitty, uninspired backstories

>>53357356
>many cultures actually believed...
I mean, I'm not saying there aren't cultures like that. But it's not all cultures either, and you don't have to import every part of a culture into a game. You should import elements that make things fun. You could potentially import 'ragnarok happens and everybody dies' into the game while everybody is level 1, but you don't.
Of course that's a bit of an extreme, but the point is I think it'd be nicer if it was simply a mid-high level character who could try to whoop the player's asses but the players can get away or there's evidence the players can use to deduce 'hang on, this beggar might be more than he looks, I'm going to see if I can find anything out'.
>They don't go around just stabbing people for no reason.
And that's the same here. There'd be some sort of reason they need to kill someone, unless you insist that there's never ever any reason to kill a beggar, ever.

>>53357378
So the DM is changing the script because they realize Bahamut is stupid, which is my point. Or, otherwise, if they don't change the script because no such characters exist, I'll refer back to
"It says that any character in the game could potentially be a superpowerful god with absolutely no clues behind it other than, say, 'legend says there's a beggar who's actually bahamut somewhere', which isn't really helpful".

>>53357442
the only way you can know if the DM is changing the script is if you are being an edgelord.

Don't be an edgelord.

>>53357436
Both suck. Here's how I do things.
>Every player starts separately, on level 1.
>I go through a personal "backstory" of sorts for each, which puts them into the main plot one way or another
>At the end of it, they're level 3.

>>53356573
Water Genasi GOOLock.

Emphasis on Goo, for googirl.

>>53357407
A vampire is in the middle of nowhere, hasn't had blood in a week, is barely able to keep himself from turning on the rest of his party, then he sees a beggar out in the middle of nowhere.
You've just assassinated a foreign king, and the only witness left is a beggar who seems to be down the road.
You picked up a cursed sword you're trying to get rid of that lashes out at people when it doesn't get anything to kill and you hope to dispose of this sword at a sacred place. You keep it under control usually with monsters, but you haven't killed in days / you had just finished killing something and the sword sees a new target, a beggar.

There's countless fucking reasons that might not even be your own fault and yet I keep getting 'stop being an edgelord'.

>>53357461
See above.

>>53I've always been fond of starting at level one and developing your character through roleplay. The first 5 levels can be usually be covered in the course of 3 or so sessions. But if it's going to be a short campaign, starting at 5 probably makes more sense so PCs can actually feel powerful

>>53356573
I'll be honest, I dont really know.

I've never really gotten a chance to think about what I want to play, in depth. Because my friends who know me and DM know I have an obsession with Monsters, due to the fact that I am artist and I almost exclusively draw monsters, so whenever a campaign starts they preface it with "No monster characters"

The funny thing is, I've never played a "monster character" I dont even know if there is something else they are boxing in with that definition. Maybe they think I would want to play something with stats from the Monster Manual? Not sure.

I'd love to just come to a campaign, draw a cool monster, and then say "I want to play this"

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What's the best way to help new players make characters?

It's so daunting for people looking at those sheets.

So much of it doesn't even make sense to people either. Like you're sitting down with your DM and he says:
>Ay papi pick what God your character believes in.
>But I'm an Orc Barbarian with 8INT.
>Shut up and look at this list of 30 Gods.

>>53357264
Personally want to one day run an Ancients Paladin/Bard. I think it would fit very nicely, a paladin who learned the ways of a bard to help bring joy to the land.

>>53357488
Also, to add to my post here:

Blackrazor, a sword in the DMG, could well be that cursed sword. It'll fucking kill you if you don't kill that beggar.

>>53357436
Or you can not be retarded and do both.

>>53357488
>See above.
see >>53357099
You won't get the hobo god coming after you if you are reasonable and character driven. The only people who get hobo-goded are unreasonable edgelords.

The fact that you keep whining about it means you are, likely, a worthless edgelord.

>>53357488
It's time to stop.

>>53357489
>>53357436
I...don't know how that happened. I might be a little drunk

>>53357465
I should just make a Lifepath supplement for 5e

>>53357520
That also sounds fun! I played a Fighter like that, who dressed in bright colors and carried a lute. He was rubbish with it, but people generally appreciated his enthusiasm.

>>53356573
A warlock whose patron makes him crossdress and he does everything he can to hide his real gender because he would be super embarrassed if anyone found out.

>>53357519
Let them pick their favorite from a bunch of premade characters, and give them cards for things they can do on their turn.

They can make their own characters after getting used to the system.

>>53357519
A: Give them premade characters to learn the game, offer to help them make their own when they're comfortable with things.

B: Walk them through each step.

C: Ask them what they'd like to play and make it for them.

>>53357564
I'm playing a cleric right now, who always tells stories, sagas and sings songs. I don't even have proficiency in perfomance.

>>53357488
Vampires aren't pcs.
Why is that beggar down the road? Did they flee? Did they see anything at all? A good assassin only kills the intended target, otherwise you're an edgelord.
The cursed sword is super fucking stupid.

You are being an edgelord.

>>53357488
I think he meant good as in opposite of evil, not valid. That's a perfectly reasonable excuse to kill a beggar but it's still an evil .
Oh and still murdering hobos

>>53357576
You seem to be lost, pathfriend.
>>53353272

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Divine Intervention at level 20 succeeds automatically and they don't even need to roll a dice.

How is this not the most broken and abused fucking thing ever. This is basically turbo wish. The game should just stop at this point.

>>53357608
What the fuck are you blathering about?

>>53357608
Nobody actually plays past level 12.

>>53357608
they can only use it once per week, anon.

>>53357583
How's it gone so far?

>>53357488
>Made a vampire
Stop being an edgelord

>Using an evil sword
>It's totally just for this I'll wield it for good then dispose of it
Stop being a stupid edgelord

These situations you make are a hyper specific example that help you in no way.

>>53357576
So you except as a warlock?

>>53357608
>Level 20
>The game should just stop at this point.
What an odd thing to say.

>>53357633
My DM usually gives me inspiration or some other bonuses for doing it, but nobody else seems to mind or notice.

>>53357621
>nigger-tier reading skills

>>53355966
An unmarked trail in the middle of the woods that leads off to a strange cabin. When you enter, it is fully stocked with mysteriously lavish accomodations, including an array of sweets, and a note warning that each player is allowed only three sweets and some tea...or else.

>>53357608
>The DM chooses the nature of the intervention
That's why you're wrong.

>>53357546
Good DMing would be a scout seeing you murder the harmless beggar running ahead to the city and when you arrive at the city, the guards arrest you, throw you into jail and you're kicked from the group. That doesn't even take very long to resolve and it has more story integrity.
Not 'God smites your face and you're kicked from the group'.

And, as I've said probably 10 or so times now, even if nobody in the party is likely to attack that beggar it's still stupid to have a beggar with no tells they're anything but a beggar being there. A good story often has at least subtle hints that you can pick up on, and characters having flaws. Particularly of powerful creatures, it's a common flaw that you can't just turn into a normal-sized human and be 'a normal human but better', but rather aspects of your power leak out from your human form if you do that.

>>53357584
>The cursed sword is super fucking stupid
>It's a sword in the DMG
Well, good job.

>>53357595
Well, objective morality it's evil. Subjective alignment wise you could get away with it.

>>53357637
There are valid reasons a character might end up with a cursed sword, anon.

>>53357528
Then you die, otherwise you commit an evil act, especially if your whole justification for having it is to dispose of it. You do realize you can carry just a thing and not wield it right?

There is no justification here you decided to wield something inherently evil and felt there'd be no repercussions and now surprise there are.

>>53357657
I mean a citation, you fucking retard.

>>53357673
see
>>53357099
I can link my post all day, anon

>>53357204
>'innocent humans'
but is anyone really innocent? we are, in the grand scheme of the universe, fucking this planet, so far the only one we know is capable of holding life, beyond any imaginable repair.

maybe we are all stupid evil in the end.

>>53357608
>How is this not the most broken and abused fucking thing ever.
It's level 20 anon. Nobody ever actually gets there and if they do, it's usually at the end of the game.
Also just realized that if you select text before replying to a post it automatically green texts, which is pretty neat

>>53357649
Sounds nice.

>>53357694
>maybe we are all stupid evil in the end.
and we deserve what's coming to us.

>>53353496

WE

>>53357681
Can you honestly not fucking Google? Fuck me you really are a nigger.

>>53357264
i think the oath of nature's capstone ultimately makes the single best green knight in the game, so you might want to stick to it thoroughly.

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Some guy on Plibbit made these cool map brushes on Photoshop.

Say "Thanks Plebbort".

>>53357673
There are but you aren't forced to wield such a thing, by choosing that you've shown you are ok with an inherently evil item. A curse is not always evil but the weapon you chose is.

>>53357673
Yeah but you can have the cursed sword not acting like a fucking retard.
Your other examples failed, but you still cling to this one. It's also super fucking specific and is a legendary item.

Try again, edgelord.

>>53357705
wuz?

>>53353948
>Mary Sue

Bahamut is one of the games deities for fucks sake. If you don't want your party wiped out after attempting to rob an old man on the road, perhaps try not playing some shitball evil douchenozzles.

>>53357710
Or you can not be a piece of shit.

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>>53357733
Presidents!

Hey 5eg

Is there any satisfying way of having deities that aren't actually "Gods" but more like cosmic ideals?

Is there anyway of also having "Star signs" or some such that actually affects anything?

>>53357676
It's unreasonable to say there's never any reason a character might end up with a cursed sword that they can't take off their person.

Sure, you probably did something stupid to get to that position, but it's not always the case. You might even have to hold onto it and convince it you're trying to help it in order to fool it as you find somewhere safe to lock it away.

>>53357691
See
>>53357673
>Good DMing would be a scout seeing you murder the harmless beggar running ahead to the city and when you arrive at the city, the guards arrest you, throw you into jail and you're kicked from the group. That doesn't even take very long to resolve and it has more story integrity.
Not 'God smites your face and you're kicked from the group'.
>And, as I've said probably 10 or so times now, even if nobody in the party is likely to attack that beggar it's still stupid to have a beggar with no tells they're anything but a beggar being there. A good story often has at least subtle hints that you can pick up on, and characters having flaws. Particularly of powerful creatures, it's a common flaw that you can't just turn into a normal-sized human and be 'a normal human but better', but rather aspects of your power leak out from your human form if you do that.
I could, too.

>>53356551
>Muh moral relativism
Fuck off back to your shitty 90's antihero comics.

>>53357673
>Well, objective morality it's evil. Subjective alignment wise you could get away with it.
>The beggar you just tried to stab suddenly morphs into Bahamut.
>Tiamat possesses your body and polymorphs into her true form
>a great battle ensues as the rest of the party is annihilated
>the two stalemate and retreat, Tiamat leaves your body.
>you are the only thing left living for miles

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>>53357715
Yeah, but I don't anticipate ever really getting there.

>>53357766
again, if you get the hobo-god, you were not being reasonable and character driven, you can list examples good and bad all day long, but the bottom line is, if the hobo-god comes a visiting, you've been a shitlord. Non-shitlords dont get the hobo god.

>>53357766
You do realize you can end up with a cursed item and not attune to it right?

Your argument falls apart at that point, an item such as black razor would have shit tons of stories and legends surrounding it. Attuning to it means you're being stupid in one way or another and should live with the consequences of such an action instead of taking another life with no proof that they are anything but innocent.

Also if the story forces you to attune to it shouldn't you be screeching how that's a shitty story?

>>53357694
Is anyone truly evil, or is it the universe that is evil?

>>53357720
There are a few cursed weapons that do bad shit if you don't use them. If you don't feed blackrazor, it'll get pissed at you and probably try to kill you if it can. However a sentient sword does that.
Some cursed weapons such as a berserker's axe give you disadvantage to attack with any weapon but it.

>>53357735
>You can't play evil characters because gods exist
I guess?
Also, even gods tend to have flaws to them. Flawless characters just aren't fun.

>>53357730
Well, the only reason people seemed to give for the other reasons are stuff like 'players won't be vampires' and 'you're an edgelord for murdering witnesses'. I might've missed something though, this has been a shitflinging whirlwind. But it's entirely possible you try to use modify memory on the beggar or something instead.
But with cursed weapons, there are plenty of other possible cursed weapons that might do this sort of shit. And even if it's one specific case, I'm just showing that there are examples that do exist.

>>53357608
You're effectively duplicating the effects of a cleric spell, after which you can't use this again until 7 days have passed.
It requires stipulation from the DM of what can be done so any potential abuse is stopped there, you fucking autistic retarded piece of shit.

>>53357519
Who cares what God they believe in? Also it's super straightforward, just explain to them what each Ability Score is meant to represent (the only one that is ever really a persistent problem is Wisdom/Intelligence nuances, and even then it takes one good example), what some of the skills do, and the basics of AC and weapon attacks.

Everything else can be done as the player goes, really. Backgrounds make it super easy to make up a backstory, and personality traits aren't going to be perfect with new players, so just let them play their fantasy self-insert. It makes for a better gameplay experience for newbies anyways.

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>>53357766
The real way to deal with this is to not have any alignment at all, and ignore alignment for your player characters. They shouldn't need it anyways because they're all ambiguous figures that shouldn't EVER be 100% evil, good, lawful, neutral or chaotic because that makes no fucking sense and alignment is stupid

What you should do instead is to give the players a problem to solve, and then hand them the agency to solve that problem any way they see fit. If they do something that's obviously batshit insane, then have everyone around act like it's batshit insane. Never ever force your players to have to lead the charge into certain death, always give them the option to either avoid it completely, lead the charge but actually fall back, or even do other bullshit

If they're super powerful and locals can't bring punishment upon them for making bad descisions, then have the gods and or champions of evil/good show up and kick their shit in for doing a bad/good

>>53357861
>Is anyone truly evil, or is it the universe that is evil?
You can get right fuck off back to World of Darkness with this attitude.

>>53355966
Forest is actually vaginas.

>>53357861
You can't play a vampire as a pc so that argument is irrelevant.
You haven't given any answers to my questions about the assassin only that you want to continue being offended by being called an edgelord for acting severely retarded.

The cursed weapon requires attunement, you can choose not to attune.

>>53357804
So Bahamut doesn't show up unless the DM wants to 'rocks fall, you die' you?
You know, I can absolutely 100% agree with you here.

>>53357839
>You can end up with a cursed item and not attune to it
If you're transporting it, a sentient cursed sword may still get angry at you regardless of attunement. Especially one that apparently needs to feed off of souls.
>you're being stupid in one way or another
Specifically for a more roleplaying-focused game, someone might do it as it's playing to character. Or did the DM just put the sword there knowing that everybody would realize it's cursed and expect the party to just do nothing with it and forget about it?
>and should live with the consequences of such an action
Sure, but consequences shouldn't be 'rocks fall, you die because the beggar is secretly a god'. That's just bullshit. Consequences should be reasonable, such as having to deal with a paladin, not a god.

>>53357861
>Well, the only reason people seemed to give for the other reasons are stuff like 'players won't be vampires' and 'you're an edgelord for murdering witnesses'. I might've missed something though, this has been a shitflinging whirlwind. But it's entirely possible you try to use modify memory on the beggar or something instead.
>But with cursed weapons, there are plenty of other possible cursed weapons that might do this sort of shit. And even if it's one specific case, I'm just showing that there are examples that do exist.
you obviously missed this: >>53357099
if you are doing something your character MUST do, you wont get the hobo-god. If you are just shitting around killing hobos because raisins, you gonna get the hobo-god.

>>53357899
>such as having to deal with a paladin, not a god.
implying a high level paladin can't instantly kill you.

>>53357861
>There are a few cursed weapons that do bad shit if you don't use them. If you don't feed blackrazor, it'll get pissed at you and probably try to kill you if it can. However a sentient sword does that.
Some cursed weapons such as a berserker's axe give you disadvantage to attack with any weapon but it.

Once again you are in no way forced to attune to such an item, which is when the curse activates. Black razor would have a fuck ton of legends and stories around it because it is a legendary weapon.

Also you are in no way forced to use the Berserker Axe, you simply receive a penalty untill you can be rid of it.

>>53357899
Is your character evil? Y/N?

>This autist is still posting
I wonder who'll get tired first.

>>53357914
Torm the Bro is after you. Or Lathander the Chad is after you.

>>53357921
Its probably the same "epic trole :DD" that was shitting up the thread about how he should be able to kill anything with Occluded Mind.

>>53357885
I mean, yes, but rather than have the gods it should be the champions of evil/good that come and kick their ass. Make it an incredibly loaded fight if you want, but I'd say that's more fun than someone who'll just destroy everybody with one action.

>>53357898
>You can't play a vampire as a PC
Says who? Just because there isn't a race or class or anything for it, doesn't mean it's not possible to do in the 5e system. Maybe the DM let a player do it and there'd be clues along the way until the other players realize it and have to make decisions about their vampire friend.

And it's pretty hard to pick the 'hurr you said something that makes you an edgelord and your argument is invalid' from the actual questions. Doesn't help you're still doing ad hominem instead of saying 'Why, yes, now you've replied maybe the assassin could do that, I see why you're right anon-kun'.

I've already talked about the cursed weapon case. You might not realize it's cursed, or you might realize it but do it for character reasons or expect the consequences not to be so severe. Or you might be trying to keep it sated so it doesn't do anything to hinder you getting rid of cursed weapon.

>>53357916
If yes, the DM tells you not to make an evil character so bahamut doesn't show up?
If no, the DM doesn't put bahamut in?
So bahamut doesn't get put in?
Do we win?

>>53357915
>You are in no way forced to attune to an item
But you might for in-character reasons or for, say 'I accept there might be reasonable consequences in return for power by wielding this'.
The key word there is 'reasonable'. 'Reasonable' consequences. Not 'god smites your ass.'

>>53357921
Never underestimate the energy reserves of a turbo-autist trying to argue his morally indefensible point. He actually thinks he's right to murder hobos, which grants him great strength.

>>53357899
>If you're transporting it, a sentient cursed sword may still get angry at you regardless of attunement. Especially one that apparently needs to feed off of souls.

Doesn't matter it can piss and moan all it wants but since you aren't attuned there is no action it can take.

>Specifically for a more roleplaying-focused game, someone might do it as it's playing to character. Or did the DM just put the sword there knowing that everybody would realize it's cursed and expect the party to just do nothing with it and forget about it?

Could be it was put there to temp people with it's power, once again if no one attuned to it and instead goes on a journey to destroy it they aren't doing nothing with it.

>Sure, but consequences shouldn't be 'rocks fall, you die because the beggar is secretly a god'. That's just bullshit. Consequences should be reasonable, such as having to deal with a paladin, not a god.

This is once again implying that any DM actively does this. The whole basis for your bitching is that they can therefore it must mean DMs will.

>>53357968
>Says who? Just because there isn't a race or class or anything for it, doesn't mean it's not possible to do in the 5e system. Maybe the DM let a player do it and there'd be clues along the way until the other players realize it and have to make decisions about their vampire friend.
>And it's pretty hard to pick the 'hurr you said something that makes you an edgelord and your argument is invalid' from the actual questions. Doesn't help you're still doing ad hominem instead of saying 'Why, yes, now you've replied maybe the assassin could do that, I see why you're right anon-kun'.
>I've already talked about the cursed weapon case. You might not realize it's cursed, or you might realize it but do it for character reasons or expect the consequences not to be so severe. Or you might be trying to keep it sated so it doesn't do anything to hinder you getting rid of cursed weapon.

*ahem* >>53357099

>>53357516
>what does the dm mean by no monster characters?
>I'd love to just come to a campaign, draw a cool monster, and then say "I want to play this"
That's what he means

>>53357488
Stop trying to justify unnecessary hobo murder

>>53357516
That's exactly why the say it

>>53357968
Your argument boils down to "it's what my character would do", which is rather telling of what you're like as a player and person. You aren't going to change anyone's mind because the points you make aren't good, and no one will change yours because you're too ensconced in this mentality of "muh ARPEE" to consider that it's just a shitty character in the first place.

>>53357968
You're trying to justify being able to play a vampire when you normally can't at all and because it devolves into npc territory. Why?
Vampires aren't a pc race, not matter how specific a game type or situation, you can't normally play a vampire. So this is irrelevant.

The cursed weapon still requires attunement.

>If yes, the DM tells you not to make an evil character so bahamut doesn't show up?
>If no, the DM doesn't put bahamut in?
>So bahamut doesn't get put in?
Do we win?
There's no need to be evasive, a simple yes or no would do.

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>"sorry, my rogues trait is that he's impulsive, so he does retarded shit"

>"sorry, my rogues trait is that he's greedy, so he does retarded shit"

>"sorry, my rogues trait is that he is "bold" so he does retarded shit"

>"sorry, my rogues trait is that he is cowardly, so he does retarded shit"

>>53357983
If a god is smiting your ass you've done something to make that response reasonable. Unless your playing with a shit DM, just because there are some shit DMs out there does not mean something should be barred to those who use it responsibly.

This all seems to boil down to "DMs have this therefore they will use it and I don't like that."

>>53357983
Then act and be reasonable in the first fucking place.

>>53357988
>There is no action it can take
It can find its way into the hands of a powerful enemy you now have to face, or find a way to abandon you, or whatever. Maybe convince that other guy in your party who seems shadey to use it 'because it'll be totally fine'. Maybe keep yelling for miles 'HEY ANCIENT POWERFUL SWORD HERE COME ATTACK THESE ADVENTURERS'

>>53357988
>Could be it was put there to tempt people with its power
In a story driven game in particular, you're not really an idiot for taking it. In a more meta game, you'd say 'yeah, this is cursed, even if my character is that kinda guy I'm not going to fuck my character over'.

>The whole basis for your bitching is that they can therefore it must mean DMs will
Honestly this is all about me disliking Bahamut's design. The whole 'actually there might be a reason for attacking a beggar' thing is a sideargument because it seems people think there's never any valid reason to attack a beggar, ever. And, I guess the small point that this provides relating to bahamut is that it's stupid because your character has to fear killing anything because anything could secretly be a god.

I'm making a (technically) martial for the first time by way of playing a Devotion paladin in a pseudo-Greek setting. What weapon should I use? Halberd/glaive but refluffed, spear+shield?

>>53357694
>we are, in the grand scheme of the universe, fucking this planet
Does DnD take place on this planet, Anon?

>>53358072
>Honestly this is all about me disliking Bahamut's design. The whole 'actually there might be a reason for attacking a beggar' thing is a sideargument because it seems people think there's never any valid reason to attack a beggar, ever. And, I guess the small point that this provides relating to bahamut is that it's stupid because your character has to fear killing anything because anything could secretly be a god.
>>53357099

>>53358072
Stop and think about your actions before acting like a retarded shit.

Again, is your character evil? Yes or no? Don't act like an evasive whiny brat.

>>53358039
One of the arguments is 'it's what the character would do' which is entirely plausible when it comes to powerful cursed weapons. There are other arguments there if you could actually read, but if you're not going to acknowledge the others such as players doing it because 'it's powerful, so I'll accept something detrimental in return for power' or players doing it because they're trying to keep the thing quiet.

>>53358040
>So this is irrelevant
It would be irrelevant if we were talking about games that solely includes core content and never deviates ever, but at no point have we made the assumption that the DM doesn't have a reason a player can't take on vampiric tendancies. 5e isn't a scripted MMORPG, there are all sorts of things that can happen.

>The cursed weapon still requires attunement
and I've already explained this a few times already.

>a simple yes or no would do
I can't tell you yes or no because I'm not talking about any one specific character?

>>53358139
>One of the arguments is 'it's what the character would do' which is entirely plausible when it comes to powerful cursed weapons. There are other arguments there if you could actually read, but if you're not going to acknowledge the others such as players doing it because 'it's powerful, so I'll accept something detrimental in return for power' or players doing it because they're trying to keep the thing quiet.
>>53357099
>It would be irrelevant if we were talking about games that solely includes core content and never deviates ever, but at no point have we made the assumption that the DM doesn't have a reason a player can't take on vampiric tendancies. 5e isn't a scripted MMORPG, there are all sorts of things that can happen.
>>53357099

>>53358058
I mean, honestly, I don't expect it to ever happen on purpose, but it's the notion it could happen by accident. Or, that someone includes it in their story and that it kinda affects story integrity because even though it didn't happen it has the illusion that if played a different way it could've happened.

>>53358139
It's very much irrelevant because it can't normally happen. 5e also isn't an autism reeactor.

Your explanations are fucking shit. It requires attunement and you can choose not to attune.

Then of the retarded examples you have given which are evil?

>>53358164
>I mean, honestly, I don't expect it to ever happen on purpose, but it's the notion it could happen by accident. Or, that someone includes it in their story and that it kinda affects story integrity because even though it didn't happen it has the illusion that if played a different way it could've happened.
here, this might help make you feel better: >>53357099

>>53358072
>It can find its way into the hands of a powerful enemy you now have to face, or find a way to abandon you, or whatever.

Oh no you have to fight something woe is you, also it's not the fucking one ring, it has to be moved that's the whole point.

>Maybe convince that other guy in your party who seems shadey to use it 'because it'll be totally fine'.

So we're back to being an idiot and allowing such a situation to happen, also it can only communicate with it's wielder so surprise you have to hold it for it to talk.

>Maybe keep yelling for miles 'HEY ANCIENT POWERFUL SWORD HERE COME ATTACK THESE ADVENTURERS'

See the above, your point is irrelevant it can't do that, it can only speak to it's wielder so no risk of that.

>>53358164
>>53358058
To explain that further:

Example,
You walk down the road and ahead everything just explodes, everybody ahead dies.

Why couldn't that just happen to your character? You know the DM isn't going to make it happen to your character, but story-integrity-wise it could happen at any time. And that's worrying if there's no clear signs before that explosion happens.

>>53358178
Reenactor*

>>53358093
Paladins are still martials anon, don't need to worry about it. Depending on the meme you're going for, a hoplite would do well with spear, shield, and eventually, the Shield Master feat. Try to suck your DM's dick to step up the damage die because there's no reason not to.

>>53358195
but anon, the signs were there all along!
>>53357099

>>53358178
>Your explanations are fucking shit
Well, thank you Mr. My Opinion Is Fact.
>Attuning to a cursed sword is evil, whether you know it's cursed or not, whether you have a good reason for it or not, etc
Not always?
And
>are evil
And doing an evil action immediately justifies 'god smites you'?

>>53358228
>And doing an evil action immediately justifies 'god smites you'?
>>53357099

>>53358139
You do realize if the dm is allowing you to play a vampire for whatever fucking reason, maybe to satisfy your edgy whiny WoD desires, that a manifestation by Bahamut is also extremely reasonable.

>>53358201
The concept is:
The character is an Aasimar, in this case a super minor demigod that's the son of one of Hekate's angels, who in the mortal world is basically a glorified errand boy.
I really wanted the angel guardian thingy to be a direct relative of my character's because of that, but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen
And for the life of me I can't think of a name or much beyond that.

And are spears really that shitty? We'll be starting at level 3.

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>>53357516
>I have an obsession with Monsters

i know this feel, anon, i have it too. i don't know, monsters seem SO much more interesting than normal joes living their lives and shit.

except for orc, fuck and remove orcs.

i like the idea of exploring a really different set of values and cultural expectations if i'm to insert into a fantastical world, and all of the common races take too much from normal human culture to really push you enough and i play as a human every single day of my life.

>>53358164
>I mean, honestly, I don't expect it to ever happen on purpose,

Then what the fuck is your issue here?

>but it's the notion it could happen by accident.

It's not going to be an accident if it's at that stage of a story.

>Or, that someone includes it in their story and that it kinda affects story integrity because even though it didn't happen it has the illusion that if played a different way it could've happened.

Huh holy shit if you played the story differently different things would have happened.

So in short your a white room theory crafters who has autism because you can't see how this isn't going to be an accident but something that happens because of your actions in the story?

>>53358189
>Oh no you have to fight something, and you have to keep fighting and fighting and fighting until the sword stops fucking your shit up so you can move it without dying. Or, I guess you might eventually kill everything in the valley, but this becomes a tram problem of 'one beggar' or 'possibly all our lives, possibly not'.

>also it can only communicate with it's wielder
"The weapon can speak, read, and understand Common, and can communicate with its wielder"
Telepathy is an extra. It can also talk without telepathy.
And, yes, it is being a bit of an idiot, but who knew that listening to what a sword said would lead to 'bahamut kills you in one hit' rather than 'the rest of the party has to fight you to get the sword back'?

>See the above
No, you see the above, it can talk.

>>53358255
I'm not someone who'd ask to play a vampire, but you're basically just saying
>You can't have a vampire character played well in 5e D&D, it's as unreasonable as Bahamut

>>53358195
So a story point happens for the players to solve and possibly later find out "oh this is how it was done" means that you need to shit yourself because a DM will do that to you at any time for no reason?

Sounds like you should try not playing DnD it'd help solve alot of these problems.

>>53358320
>"The weapon can speak, read, and understand Common, and can communicate with its wielder"
>Telepathy is an extra. It can also talk without telepathy.
>And, yes, it is being a bit of an idiot, but who knew that listening to what a sword said would lead to 'bahamut kills you in one hit' rather than 'the rest of the party has to fight you to get the sword back'?
>>53357099

>>53358283
>So in short your a white room theory crafters who has autism because you can't see how this isn't going to be an accident but something that happens because of your actions in the story?

It's suspense of disbelief.

This is all about suspense of disbelief.

Yes, the DM is going to make it conveniently so that you won't accidentally end up attacking a god.

But when there are gods you see in person, it's slowly whittling down that suspension of disbelief that that won't ever happen.

>>53358228
Your explanations are very shit. Why were you trying to justify playing a vampire? Will a reasonable dm agree to that?

Blackrazor specifically requires attunement.

No, but doing an evil action has consequences, sometimes severe ones.
Are the examples you've given evil characters? This is a simple question, why the goddamn fuck are you being this evasive?

>>53358273
>And are spears really that shitty? We'll be starting at level 3.
excluding feats, spears are only -1 or -2 damage behind other polearms.

>>53358320
Not him, but are you severely autistic?

>>53358320
Actions have consequences, you autistic retard.

>>53358320
It very much sounds like you are someone who would demand to play a vampire and then bitch and whine if you didn't get your way.

The fact that actions have consequences is eminently reasonable.

>>53358320
>"The weapon can speak, read, and understand Common, and can communicate with its wielder"
Telepathy is an extra. It can also talk without telepathy.

I will admit I misread that

>And, yes, it is being a bit of an idiot, but who knew that listening to what a sword said would lead to 'bahamut kills you in one hit' rather than 'the rest of the party has to fight you to get the sword back'?

Once again you're back to the "DM can therefore he fucking will!" Argument. How loud can it be? From what's given about as loud as a human, to solve this issue you avoid settlements untill you get where you need to go and if you have a moral fuck up in the party you make it clear he tries to use it he doesn't keep living.

Stop trying to make these hyper specific situations that any decent DM won't be prone to using. If a DM is placing a hobo who is some fuck you thing in disguise it's because it's gotten to that point from your actions.

>>53358466
hell, if you HAVE Blackrazor, you will likely have a bag of holding, stick his ass in a dimensional pocket and be done with it.

>>53358355
Thank you for proving what I said

>>53358494
Try putting Tiamat in a bag of holding.

>>53358375
>Why were you trying to justify playing a vampire?
Because it's one of the examples earlier why it's possible a character might be seriously encouraged to kill a beggar.
People played vampires in previous editions, and it's entirely feasible someone might play a vampire in this edition. Much like how monster PC races are a thing in Volo's.

>Are the examples you've given evil characters? This is a simple question, why the goddamn fuck are you being this evasive?
You were never clear on what the evil character is referring to, so all I can say is 'I don't fucking know?'
So now I can answer it. And the answer:
I don't fucking know?
Because, you see, we need to know if we're talking about objective or subjective alignment for me to be able to answer that.
Likely, objectively they're evil but subjectively they could be evil, neutral or good.

>>53358461
>assumptions
And, as I keep saying, I agree with 'actions have consequences', I just don't agree with 'actions have consequences that make no sense'.
>>53358425
See baove.

>Blackrazor specifically requires attunement
There's nothing saying that it needs attunement to at the very least talk. You attune for the bonuses it gives. Attuning to it doesn't actually do anything detrimental to you other than allow it to communicate with you telepathically.

You guys got any druid concept ideas? I mean, something unlike the whole tree-loving stoner thing.

>>53358466
>The DM can therefore he will
I'll refer back to a different post, then >>53358355
The DM can, but won't. And you know he won't. But when the DM pulls out bahamut, it becomes entirely feasible story-wise, and it only serves to remind you that the DM's conveniently avoiding shit for your sake, which isn't a good thing. The DM should sometimes conveniently avoid shit, but it shouldn't be obvious.

>>53358495
So we're agreeing?

>>53358554
>unlike the whole tree-loving stoner thing
doesn't exist, i'm sorry to inform you.

>>53358519
>Because it's one of the examples earlier why it's possible a character might be seriously encouraged to kill a beggar.
yes and >>53357099
>You were never clear on what the evil character is referring to, so all I can say is 'I don't fucking know?'
>So now I can answer it. And the answer:
>I don't fucking know?
You don't know if your character that kills beggars on the street is evil?
> just don't agree with 'actions have consequences that make no sense'
action>my character is being an unreasonable jackass. Consequence>my ass gets fucking smote, reroll.
Makes perfect sense to me.
>There's nothing saying that it needs attunement to at the very least talk. You attune for the bonuses it gives. Attuning to it doesn't actually do anything detrimental to you other than allow it to communicate with you telepathically.
stick his ass in a bag of holding. Congrats, you have just thwarted an evil legendary artifact with no blood shed.

and just for good measure: >>53357099

new thread, please save us from this shit.

>>53358556
If it's that you're an autist then yes we are, based on what you've provided so far and the little "so we're agreeing" helps reinforce my point even more.

No one cares that you sweat about the DM having the ability to fuck you over for being a disruptive shit.

>>53358519
It's not reasonable to assume you can easily play a vampire in this edition. And it wasn't easy or reasonable playing vampire in earlier editions. Stop being hyperbolic.

You don't fucking know if the examples you've given are evil? That says a fucking lot.
And d&d still clings to objective morality. Even in subjective morality they're evil. You're just being colossally, unreasonably retarded and autistic.

And you aren't forced to comply to Blackrazor's demands. What's wrong with you.

>>53358556
So this whole issue boils down to some imagined victim situation where the DM has bahamut and is just being kind in not having you accidentally try and kill him?

Sounds like you're retarded and don't realize if your attacking someone and it randomly turns out to be bahamut that's what was going to happen one way or another.

>>53358584
>You don't know if your character that kills beggars on the street is evil?
If you're saying you're automatically evil beyond salvation for killing a beggar once no matter what definition of 'evil' you use, then you're wrong.

>Makes perfect sense to me.
Not if the DM has any reasonable story integrity beyond running a meme game.

>stick his ass in a bag of holding. Congrats, you have just thwarted an evil legendary artifact with no blood shed.
Assuming you have such a thing. It's a bit contrived to absolutely assume bags of holding exist in every party beyond a certain level as if it's some fantasy must-always-exist-and-have.
You could 'probably' find some way to chain it up though that doesn't require magical items, I'll admit.

>>53358620
Well I don't care either, because that's not relevant, because it's about the DM having the ability to do that even if you aren't a disruptive shit.

>>53358642
Muh greater good is what's wrong, along with the notion that a DM puts a god disguised as a hobo somewhere for no reason.

>>53358691
>it's about the DM having the ability to do that even if you aren't a disruptive shit.
DM is in charge of the game, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. You can be randomly struck down by lightning and instantly die, if he wishes.

>>53358691
>If you're saying you're automatically evil beyond salvation for killing a beggar once no matter what definition of 'evil' you use, then you're wrong.
Holy shit, do you even hear yourself?
Please never do that irl or you'ĺl be trialed for murder.

>>53358691
>If you're saying you're automatically evil beyond salvation for killing a beggar once no matter what definition of 'evil' you use, then you're wrong.
being evil doesn't mean you are beyond salvation, it does, however, mean that your stupid actions can get you fried.
>Not if the DM has any reasonable story integrity beyond running a meme game.
or if the DM is trying to get rid of a disruptive player.
>Assuming you have such a thing. It's a bit contrived to absolutely assume bags of holding exist in every party beyond a certain level as if it's some fantasy must-always-exist-and-have.
>You could 'probably' find some way to chain it up though that doesn't require magical items, I'll admit.
but BLACKRAZOR is perfectly fucking reasonable? If you have BLACKRAZOR you have a bag of holding. I'm saying it right now. If you have ANY legendary artifiacts, you have a FUCKING BAG OF HOLDING. Barring that, here is what you COULD have: A shovel, a Box, some blankets, a wizard in your party with that spell where you put shit in a box and then shove into the ethereal, a deep lake...

>>53358707
You have no reasonable arguments. First stop acting like a stupid fuck and maybe you won't face as severe repercussions.

>>53358691
So once again your issue is that since a DM can it means they will, which is false and just your own retardation speaking.

>>53358642
>It's not reasonable to assume you can easily play a vampire in this edition.
I never required it to be easily possible. I only required it to be a possible situation a player in 5e could be in.
And, matter of fact, it is, even if unlikely.
>And D&D still clings to objective morality
Not in 5e. Paladins don't 'detect evil' anymore, you don't need alignment to be certain classes, so forth. Alignment is really just a description of your moral beliefs and personality, and paladins/clerics don't even know where they get their power from anymore for sure.

Also, in one situation, the guy is getting rid of a sword that could potentially kill many more people, and is making a small sacrifice along the way. It's an evil act, but it doesn't mean that the character themself is evil. Or they have a moment of weakness that has lead them to this point. They don't have to be on the streets every day murdering hobos.

>>53358677
>Sounds like you're retarded and don't realize if your attacking someone and it randomly turns out to be bahamut that's what was going to happen one way or another.
That's against the point. The point is that it's not going to happen, but it's a plausibility story-wise and blah blah blah suspension of belief I've said that stuff.

The whole issue is story integrity, really, not that somebody will actually end up hitting Bahamut. But that they can end up hitting Bahamut. It can happen, but it won't.