In fluff, what is exactly the difference between Primaris Marines

>>53321779
Geneseed was fixed up through genetic engineering, equipment is new and state-of-the-art.

>>53321792

Yeah, I get that. But what does it mean?

>geneseed was fixed up through genetic engineering

does that means new implants? old implants working better? or just getting rid of geneseed corruption

>equipment is new and state-of-the-art.

does that mean it's just newer and nicer and shiny, or does it mean special ammunition, new type of bolter weapons, tactical equipment?

Currently Primaris Marines info is like Apple's advertising campaign - everybody tells you you should be masturbating furiously about how cool the new thing is, but giving you 0, literally zero, info on how exactly is it better.

>>53321887
>does that means new implants? old implants working better? or just getting rid of geneseed corruption

They're bigger and stronger. What else they can do we have yet to find out.

>does that mean it's just newer and nicer and shiny, or does it mean special ammunition, new type of bolter weapons, tactical equipment?

Their armour is upgraded and their bolt rifles shoot further and have greater power than bolters. We've also heard about Primaris Dreadnoughts, so they're likely technologically superior as a whole.

>>53321792
>state-of-the-art.

Isn't the whole point of the Imperium that they havent developed new tech in thousands upon thousands of years?

>>53323277
The guy who made it has been working on it for ten thousand years.

>>53323277
Marines weapons and armors have always been one of the most prolific field of research in the imperium. And so is biology. What is stagnant is planetary engeeniring, warp technology, computer science and everything larger than a warhound titan

>>53323367
Actually, the Imperium of Man is really fucking good at computer science. Their cogitators (computers) have processors measured in thousands of kilo-brains. And a kilobrain as you can guess - measures calculations per kilo of human brain.

Imperium is not good with AI science. For obvious reasons. Because any AI scientist in the Imperium gets executed.

So, how are these guys made again? Can they just vat grow them in endless numbers? Instant maturation rate? Clonetroppers 40K?

>>53323928
We don't know the details, but they can be made from space marines.

>>53323296

The Geneseed yes, the technology no. The technology was known about, just forbidden or hidden.

Also keep in mind that it didn't take 10,000 years to improve the geneseed, it was just being constantly tweaked until the time they felt they needed to use it. For all we know It could of gone untouched for decades at a time.

>>53321887
What we know for sure is that PriMarines are generally said to be better all around. Bigger, stronger, faster etc. and have better equipment, the only thing confirmed is the MKX armor, which is said be just "better." The rest is currently unknown, how are they better is not specifically stated, there is no fluff revealed yet.

>>53321779
Isn't this just Guilliman building his own private army to usurp the emperor?

>>53324391
Don't be a retard.

>>53321779
well, seeing as how almost no fluff has been released aside from guilliman saying to belly, hey lets make better marines, and belly going ok, gimme 10k years, id say wait for some books to be published?

>>53324391

if anything the Emperor is already usurped and purely used as a guise by the high-lords of Terra and the Inquisition to keep the Imperium in check.

Guilliman is the first step to actually removing all the "grimdark" from 40K

>>53324391
Guilliman
>Met in private with the Emperor's corpse
>Commands the Imperium as Lord Commander
>Shares his Primaris technology

But actually it's all some master stroke to seize the power he already has from a man he could have already killed.

>>53324465
I dunno if the High Lords and the Inquisition really consciously kept the Imperium in a dark age, but you do have a point.

I just think the High Lords and the Inquisition never really had the intellect to see the bigger picture. Something that Guilliman did.

I'm sure that any of the other (loyalist) Primarchs could also have done it, but Guilliman is the vanilla Primarch. Which means he doesn't do anything cool, but also nothing wrong. All the other Primarchs with cool traits and ideas etc. all have their own faults that ironically put themselves into a narrative stasis that they'll never get out.

>>53323558
Yes, but the field is not advancing. They are not producing new software, since software is seen as the omnisiah , and it does not produce new math either, or at least I never read about mathematicians. And without that, the field can only stagnate

>>53324793
The high lord of terra and the inquisition want the imperium to survive, no matter the cost.
Gulliman want the imperium to prosper and if he cannot do that, he is willing to let it die. He does not believe that the end justify the means

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>>53323558
>a kilobrain as you can guess - measures calculations per kilo of human brain

That's like measuring the distance from Terra to Luna using centimeters. The human brain sucks at computation. The only thing it really excels at is pattern matching, but even today computers are beginning to overtake human capabilities there. For example autonomous ground vehicles and image categorization software outperform humans in the same tasks.

If what you say is true, the Imperium at some point regressed to, then stayed stagnant at a level of computing power that we might see in our lives, likely during the Age of Strife.

>>53323558
Ai sucks in the imperium because they had a robot revolt and had to outlaw robots so it didn't happen again

>>53321779
>Cawl fucks with astartes DNA and genetics
>one of the big no nos the emperor was really strict on not doing
>emperor is children were corrupted because of doing this
>goody goody rowboat find out about this
>lawful rowboat does not put a bolt round into Cawl
>thinks primas marines are a good idea
>people liking this level of matt ward fuckery

>>53325051
Emperor's Children were fucking around with xenos DNA.
Cawl is just building on the Emperor's plans and using some Custodes techniques.

>>53325122
It does not change the fact you did not fuck with human genetics, especially astartes, and then have rowboat just fucking hand wave it like it's all good. That's like the nikean decree being put out there then the ultra marines just using psykers openly

>>53325148
>It does not change the fact you did not fuck with human genetics

Why not? They're just following the Emperor's design.

> That's like the nikean decree being put out there then the ultra marines just using psykers openly

They did when it became convenient.

Roboute knows the Emperor isn't infallible.

>>53324926
You're retarded. We'll be lucky to see computers getting better at computation than fucking slug nerve clumps.

The only saving grace computers have is that they run on lightspeed instead of nervespeed, which means they can bruteforce shit like a mongoloid autist savant.

>>53325180
Because thats been the lore for the last 30 years? And it just gets hand waved for shitty numarines

>>53325275
>Because thats been the lore for the last 30 years?

How about an actual reason? Not that that is even a reason, in fluff attempts have been made in the past to modify space marines.

>>53321887
>does that mean it's just newer and nicer and shiny, or does it mean special ammunition, new type of bolter weapons, tactical equipment?
it means they have a second wound and kraken rounds as standard

>>53325275
Wasn't the Cursed Founding a result of people messing with the geneseed?

the ears are pointed

>>53321779

I think the better question is why are the new guys getting all the high-tech equipment? Don't you want your veteran marines to be the ones getting the state of the art arms and armour? Primaris Marines have less than a year of experience!

>>53325275
The lore has constantly changed details to the point where none of it is dependable. From the sounds of it he came back and went "oh fuck". He noticed there are massive problems that need dealing with immediately so is willing to leave the small problems for later. He needs an active army now while he can get shit done not to disrupt the entire system and have it fuck around while the Imperium dies on it's feet.

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>>53325359

>>53325380
>New tech is Primaris scaled
>Veterans would be more comfortable with the equipment they're used too

They've supposedly fixed the geneseed corruption, they have a few new implants (we don't know what they do) and are given better gear. They are a bit larger due to said implants. That's all we know. And we won't actually know if they've fixed the geneseed till they've been around for a couple hundred years.

>>53325380
Normal marines can also be updated to be Primaris marines, as confirmed in the Q&A. So they are.

>>53321792
>Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war.
I'm surprised to see GW drop the basic premises of 40k.

>>53325448
What setting theme? That's just a quote from Vulkan.

In 40K the Tau, Necrons, and the Dark Eldar rely on the power of technology and science to ensure their superiority.

>>53325380
>why are the new guys getting all the high-tech equipment?
the point of guilliman's crusade is, I believe, to spread the new technology to all the embattled parts of the imperium

so the veterans will get the new stuff when it's delivered to them

>>53325487
That's just the introduction blurb in every 40k related piece of work ever.
Namedropping something doesn't make you own it.

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>>53325487
>What setting theme?
>page one of every rulebook ever, since before you were born

>>53325487

This. The Imperium is crumbling not just because its surrounded. The Imperium has held itself back for 10k years, and people root for the Imperium because ultimately its good soldiers fighting for a bureaucratic supernightmare to defend humankind from the greatest horrors and xeno armies in the cosmos and beyond.

Now the gloves are off.

>>53321779
2 extra inches over standard dick length.

>>53325513

Guilliman's Indomitus Crusade is more or less Great Crusade Redux.

>>53324099
Does that mean they can truscale the standard characters when they want to?

>>53325532
>>53325550
>There was never an external threat to mankind that we could not overcome. The greatest foe always lies within. That is the only lesson to be learned. No matter how bleak times become, the power to prosper or fall is held in the breast of every man and woman. The chain is as strong as the weakest link, but mankind has the Emperor to bear the weight of all. And it was from within that the deadly blow was dealt. Deadly. A lingering death, fifteen hundred years of slow pain. How much longer until the corpse admits its demise? Longer than I can bear to witness any more.

>Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

-Primarch Vulkan (Beast Series : "The Beast Must Die")

Now it has been revealed to be the quote of an in-verse character which makes it just an opinion, not a fact.

>>53321779
2 point profit in the next quarter.

>>53325621
Yes.

>>53325625
>Now it has been revealed to be the quote of an in-verse character
please read the text in my image again

>>53325601
Only now he has Eldar on his side.

>>53325345
It was which is another reason not to do it >>53325322
See above

>>53325275
I am glad you are the authority on the space marines.

>>53325727
>It was which is another reason not to do it

Except that's no reason not to do it, and shows that there are people willing to try.

>>53325688

Yes no not really. The Craftworld Eldar will continue to be dicks and do their own thing. But the Ynnari Eldar are basically the Eldar equivalent of Deathwatch, going around the galaxy searching for the blackstones and working with or against anyone to get the job done.

>>53325659
It's ironic you're using an image from the 3rd ed. Rulebook to imply that the Imperium does no technological research when the 3rd ed. Rulebook as an entire page devoted to an "email" memo for Forgeworlds which details newly translated STC information AND original scientific theories and engineering inventions.

>>53325816
Willingness to try does not always mean it's a good idea, I'm willing to try to solve the worlds hunger problems but just letting the poor starve, does not mean it's a good idea.

Hamfisting lore just to push new models is a shitty thing to do, See AoS and nuking their universe, lore makes the game.

Either way we are gonna think what we think which is fine, end of the day they are plastic toy soldiers that we are playing make believe with. I for one just think the currentl lore for numarines is matt ward level fuckery just hamfisted in to push new models. Saying they are thunder warrior would have been a much better pitch

>>53325855
>an image from the 3rd ed. Rulebook
mate, that's rogue trader

>>53325934
It's also in the 3rd Ed. Rulebook.

>>53325954
>>53325550
>page one of every rule book since before you were born.

Guessing you missed that part when he said that.

>>53324926
In terms of raw computational power, no, the human brain is excessively powerful.
It's just that its medium is slow and its architecture isn't designed around the stuff we use computers for.

>>53325909
>Willingness to try does not always mean it's a good idea

Maybe it won't end up being a good idea after all, it's going to be a developing story line you fag.

What matters is that people have been tampering with the Emperor's work long before the Primaris Marines showed up.

>>53325625
I don't even...
If I say " Donald Trump is the president", does that suddently makes it no more than the opinion of some anon on the internet, or is he still PotUS?

>>53325954
it's in every fucking rulebook

but the image is specifically of rogue trader

>>53326026
No it won't dip shit, you think GW is going to use this to push story? No GW is gonna use this to push models and shove existing stories into the back corner know why? Check out these primus marines screw all those basic marines we talked about PRIMAS MODELS!!!!

Yeah they did tamper with the emperors work, know what happened to them? They were killed by, not had their work out into mass production and have it all hand waved away.

>>53326034
B-but, it's just something Vulkan said!
Which means that it doesn't matter, and I can keep dreaming my dreams that nothing bad ever happens to another human in the future and the Imperium becomes perfect under Master Rowboat and the game becomes nothing but Humanity Fuck Yeah as my beautiful ChadMarines shoot the shit out of anything that looks different than me!

>>53326065
>No it won't dip shit, you think GW is going to use this to push story?

Yes. They wouldn't have bothered splitting the galaxy in half if they weren't going to bother with story from here on out. They wouldn't mention any of the story elements they have when talking with the Primaris Marines. They'd just put out new big Marines and everyone would buy them.

>Yeah they did tamper with the emperors work

So what you're saying is that it has happened before and so not going against any previous lore? Thanks.

>>53326286
It usually results in catastrophic results, like the cursed founding, the afriel stain, and so on.
Same with innovation: The mechanicus managed to make to lay waste to Ganymede when experimenting with energy sources.
Some faction, like the tau and the squats before them, innovate a lot. Not the imperium, because everytime they do it ends in dimentional rifts and Exterminatus.

>>53326031
Vulkan is talking about things he doesn't know of. He is not omniscient.

>>53326401
>It usually results in catastrophic results, like the cursed founding, the afriel stain, and so on.

Once again, we've not seen the end of the Primaris Marines. So we can't say how there are supposed to end up.

Some of the cursed founding got fucked up. Some didn't. The afriel strain wasn't catastrophic either. They were just unlucky.

The fact that some bad shit somethimes happens doesn't mean the idea should just be binned.

>>53326489
and?
you're acting as if Vulkan uttering those words erased them in every other context.

>>53326549
>Some didn't
The luckiest 21th founding chapter is made of berzerkers, and the next one is pending exterminatus and getting experimented on by aliens. That's hardly awesome.
Then we have the abominations and genetic corruption of the relatively untainted brothers, that hit all the chapters.

And when unlucky results in your regiment getting wiped out in a fashion that is noteworthy enough for the IG, it's pretty catastrophic.

>>53326562
It just proves that's what's in the codexes and rulebooks are just half truths and lies, not objective fact.

>>53325249

do you realise the impulses on your brain are electric and travel at light speed right?

>>53326963
lol no. Even if the neural impulses were purely electrical, nerves are a pretty shitty conductor.
Though computers don't work at the speed of light either, it depends on the conductor.

>>53326944
How is this proof, exactly?
I need explanation about how you've come to that reasoning, anon.

>>53326873
>The luckiest 21th founding chapter is made of berzerkers, and the next one is pending exterminatus and getting experimented on by aliens. That's hardly awesome.

Sons of Antaeus are fine.

>And when unlucky results in your regiment getting wiped out in a fashion that is noteworthy enough for the IG, it's pretty catastrophic.

They were noteworthy because of who they were. Bad luck can fuck up whole planets of guard.

>>53324926
>The only thing it really excels at is pattern matching,
People can, with little training, catch a ball moving at 100m/s - not because our reflexes are fast, but because we're very good at computing its trajectory. You can also compute the precise direction a sound is coming from based on the difference in time it takes to reach your ears. Human brains are really great at computing, they're just poorly equipped to deal with abstract data such as numbers, and can only devote a small portion of the computing power to any specific task due to specialization.

>>53326963
>do you realise the impulses on your brain are electric

They're not electric. Electricity is involved but the impulses are chemical. Plus brain goop is copper wire.

>>53327043
>one chapter has no horrible mutation (maybe)
woaw, good job magos.

>>53321779
He looks like a plastic minis, lol.

>>53327159
welcome to new GW art, where everything must be a promotional tool for the minis.

>>53326963
Are you fucking retarded?

>>53327107
One is enough to be frank.
You just follow that line of research and not the others. Just quickly going over Lex we get 7 Cursed Founding chapters.

Black Dragons have mutants, but only because they cultivate the mutations. The mutations are beneficial.

Firehawks just had bad luck.

Lamenters have bad luck.

Flame Falcons had a beneficial mutation.

Minotaurs were just angry.

Sons of Antaeus have a beneficial mutation.

Blood Gorgons seem fine.

As you can see the genetic tampering really didn't lead to anything that bad. There's plenty of bad luck, but that's not quantifiable.

>>53321779
max bench

>>53326963>>53327028


Actual biochemist here, Neural impulse are electricity, but you have to releases electricity is not away electrons moving, it can be any charge particle, including, say potassium and sodium.

One thing they are NOT however is even CLOSE to light speed, fastest speed is ~120 m/s ion mylinated neurons

>>53327338
In humans i should add. different animals are different

>>53327228

>Black Dragons mutations are beneficial
To the Dark Eldar. Thanks Black Dragons.

>Fire Hawks
Ded or unded

>Lamenters
Ded with like 1 dreadnought left in the universe

>Flame Falcons
Ded or traitor

>Minotaurs
Friendly fire faggots, pissed off as many organizations as the Dark Angels after fighting like 5 notable engagements

>Sons of Antaeus
They're okay, maybe

>Blood Gorgons
Went traitor because muh feelings (what kind of fucking genetic defect is that???)

>>53327381
If we're going by modern (that is to say, forgeworld's) fluff, the minotaurs from the cursed founding are all likely dead, and the bronze minotaurs are a usurping the name.

>>53321779
They cost more money.

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>>53321779
One is gay, the other is a whole new type of gay that has never before been unleashed on the 40k universe.

>>53321779
"tall"

>>53321779
THEY'RE BIGGER
AND FASTER
AND STRONGER TOO
THEY'RE THE NEW MEMBERS OF THE SM CREW

>>53323265
>Primaris dreadnaught

Now that makes no sense

>>53331590
I doubt they'll have "primaris" in the name.

Castaferrum MkXXX, maybe

>>53331590
>>53331756

allegedly they have a special "Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought" Maybe they don't fit in the regular kind?

I kind of wonder whether they have primaris terminators planned? They must be about as tall as regular terminators already.

>>53321779
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjR4_CbPpQ