What's the point of Space Marines? They are like tanks,

>>53306496
>What's the point of Space Marines?
To sell shit.

>>53306496
Tanks can't go up stairs.

>>53306496
They're more mobile tanks that are often used as shock troops.

>>53306514
neither can space marines
they are too bulky and too heavy

40k has big hallways, so they can fit inside places tanks can't go, but be more armored than normal soldiers.

>>53306540
how? they can only move at human walking/running speed
much slower than tanks

>>53306568
Mobile in the sense of fit through doors anon.

>>53306568
By using transports, droppods, jetpacks. Do you really don't understand the value of shock infantry in areas where tanks would have trouble due to getting flanked or not being able to traverse properly?

>>53306568
Slap jectpacks on the cunts

>>53306568
In confined spaces, of course tanks are superior in open combat, that's why the space marines have tanks.

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>why do you need infantry when you have tanks
>why do you need special infantry forces when you have your usual rank and file infantry

>>53306496
Infsntry will always be needed and space marines are heavily armored infantry. If you cant understand that read about how bad tanks are in city fighting, forests, jungles, mountains, river crossings, amohibious landings, etc.

>>53306658
I dont think space marines would fit through most doors.
They lack the befits of beeing a human: to use stairs, ladders, go through doors
And on the other hand, they are inferiour to tanks when it comes to armor or firepower

>>53306662
yes, i have really trouble understanding that.
I dont see how space marines are immune to flanking, or how they can traverse better or faster than tanks

>>53306745
Okay, pretty clear this is bait

>>53306726
space marines would be pretty shitty in jungles and shit.
They very bulky, have zero camoflage, can hardly move through thick jungle and yet can be taken out by an RPG, especially if they dont wear a helmet

>>53306745
So, I have a question.

Do you know anything about actual infantry tactics, or combined infantry/tank tactics, that you didn't learn from a movie or game?

>>53306780
Ok, this has to be bait.

>>53306724
Are you that dense? Because tanks cannot fight in every terrain and are not as versatile as the common infantryman. Theyre harder to produce, require more supplies, vulnerable to certain weapons in certain areas.

Why have special infantry? Same fucking reason the military has special infantry today. Space Marines are supposed to be the equivalent of thousands or more guardsmen.

>>53306822
>Greentext post
>Filename
>Taking it seriously

Wee lad

>>53306782
I am certanly not an expert on infantry tactics.
So if you know more about the topic and see a niche for slow and bulky heavy armored infantry, please enlighten me

>>53306822
>Space Marines are supposed to be the equivalent of thousands or more guardsmen.
how?

>>53306780
They still move better in the jungle than a tank would. Theyre not a force that tries to stay hidden unless the chapter uses such tactics.

Power armor augments the strength, endurance, and speed of the user. Adding their genetics to the equation Space Marines can move faster than Jedi I shit you not.

>>53306496
>before:
some of the most elite soldiers in the entire galaxy
>after:
disposable manlets

>>53306822
he greentexted because he was being ironic, what the fuck

>>53306903
MARINES
EAT
BRAINS
TO
ABSORB
INFORMATION

>>53306908
>They still move better in the jungle than a tank would
but yet much worse than cheaper, unarmored infantry

>Theyre not a force that tries to stay hidden
Then why don't their enemies just call artillery strikes on them?

>Adding their genetics to the equation Space Marines can move faster than Jedi
But still slower than a tank

>>53306745
Anon this is clearly a bait thread, or you haven't read the books. Space marines are fast, they are not slow. I forgot what the real world math an anon once did was, but essentially they can sprint about as fast as a car going like 50 to 60 miles an hour. So imagine how hard you would shit yourself if you had a group of these guys charging your defensive position. Their is an actual term called posthuman dread or something like that to specifically describe the fear an Astartes make someone feel. Lay ontop that they are armored like a tank as you said, and can still move at those speeds makes them even more terrifying. Also in the 41st millenium architecture is different. Of they happen to be fighting on one of the Imperium's less developed worlds they may have difficulty with structures not being as comfortable for them, but i sure as hell won't stop them from killing everything.

>>53306903
They get sent to places where the situation has gone FUBAR, and get the job done with small numbers. The Imperial Guard number in the Trillions and more but the space marines are restricted to 1,000 each chapter. The entire chapter isn't always sent meaning they get even more done with less numbers.

>>53306929
That's a really useful ability to be honest
I would keep people who have that ability out of harms way.
They should be secret service, rather than infantry frontline

>>53306845
>>53306921
Whoops sorry mate I need to drink another beer

>>53306983
can you give an example for a mission where space marines are better suited than both tanks and regular infantry?

>>53306966
How do you know they would be slower? Also every guardsmen is armored with flakjacjets of course, and without power armor their endurance and speed would be lower.

Because the power armor makes them resistant to artillery

Infantry are slower than tracked or wheeled vehicles dont you understand that? Thats why transports exist.

>>53306979
Wow, that is really fast indeed
But I think, a tank can move just as fast
Plus, it will waste much less fuel for that, because by its nature, wheels are more energy efficient than bipedal locomotion

>>53306822
Dude, I was like being ironic and shit.

>>53307063
I just imagine that it would be really difficult for those bulky space marines to move through a thick jungle
And are you really telling me their armor can withstand artillery shells? I find it very hard to believe. Especially if they dont wear helmets

>>53307081
>But I think, a tank can move just as fast
Some tanks, yes.
>Plus, it will waste much less fuel for that, because by its nature, wheels are more energy efficient than bipedal locomotion
An Abrams tank used like a gallon every hour.

>>53307054
Certain situations to kill an enemy commander behind enemy lines. Tanks are spotted from hundreds of kilometers away by even the least advanced sensors in 40k, massed infantry too, sure, you can send in scouts or assassins that might take a while to find the perfect scenario, or you could drop a few Space Marine squads on their position from orbit.

>>53307109
>I just imagine that it would be really difficult for those bulky space marines to move through a thick jungle
That's why they carry chainsaws everywhere.

But seriously, jungles are not tight hallways. They're made of incredibly bendy stuff.
>And are you really telling me their armor can withstand artillery shells? I find it very hard to believe. Especially if they dont wear helmets
Unless they're right next to the shell when it explodes, they'll survive the shrapnel and blastwave.

>>53307054
Stalingrad or Berlin, heavily urbanised area that has been exposed to heavy shelling, or any fighting in Italy, Squishy infantry can't charge machineguns, or fight snipers, without mass casualties. Tanks can't operate without getting panzerfausted from roofs, sticky-bombed from the side, or otherwise fucked up. Space Marines can do these things, as they are more responsive than a tank, and have better senses than someone restricted to a tin can.

That said, combined arms is the way to win wars.

>>53307128
Sounds like a mission that requires stealth
Wouldn't a sniper be better?

>>53306548
Depends entirely on the stairs.

>>53307190
Once again, might take too much time, and the typical enemy that Space Marines are sent to fight are either so stupidly durable that a sniper shot, even to the head, might not pull it off, do sensors and stealth better than the Imperium, and the like.

Space Marines are specialized infantry for special occasions, that's why they're outnumbered thousands to one by even the elite Imperial infantry.

>>53307175
>Tanks can't operate without getting panzerfausted from roofs, sticky-bombed from the side, or otherwise fucked up
can't space marines get panzerfausted aswell?

>>53307054
Lets see a warband of Chaos Space Marines is invading [insert type of world]. The local PDF is overrun and the IG sent there are having trouble dealing with csm and daemons, but the situation hasn't attracted the attention of Grey Knights yet.
Lets say theres a valuable stc on the planet that produces an important ype of vehicle. Space Marines get called in to deal with it.

Fihting would be in an urban environment and against corrupted heavy infantry and daemons. When normal humans encounter Daemons corruption spreads like wildfire, and normal men and women tend to go insane like in hp lovecraft stories. Space Marines are more resistant and capable of fighting them.

Now you might respond this mess wouldnt have started if they didn't exist in the first place. Well we can replace the chaos enemies with any other foe such as the orks, tyranids, necrons, dark eldar, eldar, tau, or some unknown xenosnthat are strong.

Space marines are suited to heavy close quarters fighting that occurs around 1km. Depending on the amount and company sent to this world they may have tanks themselves and different vehicles.

>>53307190
Depends on the location. Dude locked in a fortified bunker will be nigh unkillable by a sniper, instead an infliltration team, or assault team would be better.

>>53307238
Not as easily, because they're infantry that move more easily, can take cover, and work in squads.

>>53307238
They can, but you try panzerfausting running three times as fast as you, with reactions, hand-eye coordination and accuracy many times greater than your fastest, most perceptive and best shots in your army combined (as far as Humans are concerned), on top of massively more experienced and with hyper-advanced sensor suites, including targeters, neurally uplinked to them through their Power Armour.

Space Marines are the kinds of supersoldiers you see in fiction who have put a shot in the chest of every target in the room while one, at most, got a wild shot back in that timezone.

>>53307269
I think the implication here is that an individual space marine is cheaper than an individual tank, which i very much doubt, considering they have to be trained since childhood

>>53307286
so like an inferior version of point-defence?

>>53307238
They can, but you won't kill a squad of 5 in an ambush, at least not without a fight. Marines are significantly smaller than any 40k tank

>>53306548
you know servo-motors are a thing, right?

>>53307314
Sure, except it kills you before you get the shot off and isn't limited by angling, and also has the ability to turn its accuracy against targets outside of its limited programming.

>>53307221
i just dont see how space marines could sneak up to the enemy general, seeing how bulky and visible they are.
As soon as the enemy detects them, the general would get the fuck out, i assume

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>>53306992
You rang?

>>53307238
>>53307269
Also, much smaller target, and the only way to get a kill is headshot or body shot.
>>53307293
They are much more expensive, seeing as there are more tanks than space marines, but tanks cannot fulfill the same role.

>>53307334
The Astartes generally wouldn't sneak up, they'd just drop in, from orbit, probably in a pattern so their firing lines and/or spheres of influence forms a lattice to try and prevent escape. The general could try and bug out, but the same risk lies with snipers, except the general's bodyguards can actually deal with snipers in a firefight if they get caught.

>>53307334
Drop pods/teleporters.

>>53306992
Their other abilities make them more useful as Infantry.

>what is the point of tanks that can go inside buildings, guard terrain, fight underwater or in space, etc. etc. etc.

Are you retarded?

>>53307063

Space marine scouts do exist and are more lightly armored so thwy would perform fine in a jungle. I do recognize that light infantry exist for rough terrain such as jungles forests and mountains. Yet with their power armor and superhuman genes space marines do not suffer from the fatigue that a common infantryman would have from lugging his gear around in such environments.

Most do wear helemts they just suffer from the trope of art looks cooler when heroes dont wear helmets.

The thing with artillery is you would need a direct hit to kill a space marine. What kills people the most when it comes to artillery is the fragments from the explosion. Thats why flak jackets would naturally protect from fragments and a power armored suit would be well suited. Even if a space marine gets directly hit he still may survive because he is super human. Space marines have been known to lose limbs and get them replaced with bionics so they become cyborg soace marines.

>>53307249
If I was in charge of the planetary defense, and if normal soldiers weren't able to face the enemy due to corruption, I would take the space marines out of their power armor and put them in tanks, and obliterate the chaos space marines with superior armor and firepower

They are useful for quickly and effectively destroying important targets.

>>53307373
>>53307365
why not just drop in/teleport in bombs?

>>53307399
>Put Space Marines in tanks
>Not putting Servitors in there, who are also resistant to corruption and you don't have to retrofit your tanks for, then uplinking the Servitors to a noospheric grid to keep them effective

Stupid ideas go both ways, Anon, you've just fallen for your own hatred of tactical incompetence.

>>53307389
you see, the problem that due to their size and the weight of their power armor, i doubt space marines could interact with most of human infrastructure

>>53307399
Well you see anon space marines already have tanks so why not have both infantry and tanks? Combined arms warfare is an efficient tactic and this is what space marines and competant guard divisions do.

>>53307416
Because the 40k setting doesn't entirely run off realism in order to allow itself to exist, it was never an exercise in the most efficient or effective methods of warfare and, if it was, the whole setting, along with basically any other mainstream or secondary mainstream sci-fi setting that attempted to claim such.

>>53307428
Just like how 2 meter tall people can't interact with most of human infrastructure.

YOU GODDAMN RETARDED AUTIST.

>>53307462
that's fine
for a moment, i thought some of your guys were arguing that something like space marines could actually be a viable tactic in real life

>>53307462
I'm too tired for this shit.

>attempted to claim such, would fall to pieces

>>53307462
If it was realistic we wouldnt have leman russ tractors, titans, and 1,000 marine limit on chapters. It is hard to believe that a company of 100 space marines could fight and win a battle on a planet.

>>53307480
Of course not, or at the very least not with the kind of warfare we practice today. The concept might be sound if it was radically altered and it's easy to see why in a soft-sci-fi they make sense, but I don't think anyone would argue that anything in 40k is even remotely optimal for its technological level, even the Tau would be considered retarded by proper military experts considering the tech they have.

>>53307506
If it was realistic, there would be no ground armies at all, only nuking planets from the orbit

>>53307399
"My lord, the loyalist commander is sending tanks."
>And what else?
"Nothing else, lord. Just tanks."
>Deploy the raptors, armed with melta bombs. And my Termintator guards, with their chain fists.
"At once, lord!"
>Our enemies hide in METAL BOXES, the cowards! THE FOOLS! We… We should take away their METAL BOXES!
"...Are you all right, my lord?"

>>53307416
And lose out on the intel/resources/structures/hostages you're securing?

Even if your primary goal is death, when you send in the Astartes instead of bombs you can do things like recover the hive spire for the God Emperor without having to rebuild the entire thing.

>>53306966

For a wargame, GW is intentionally ignorant of basic tactics.

Yes, a band of charging Khorne berserkers can be blown into cunky salsa by a few concentrated salvos of ranged fire, turning the entire hill they are on into a crater. GWs MO is not to explain why that cant or wont work, but to simply never have anyone in the past 20,000 years ever think to try it.

A lot of 40ks problems can be solved by a modern day vacuum salesman with a smartphone who watched more than half of Saving Private Ryan on TNT. The censored for TV version, too.

>>53306801
Poor fluff excuses nothing.

>>53306496
Rule of Cool

>>53307238
>trying to score a direct hit on a moving, slightly-larger-than-human target with a slow-firing anti-tank weapon at anything other than point-blank
The hit probability of RPG on a 16'x8' target at 200m is about 51%, with typical modern infantry engagement ranges being about 150m or so you'd really struggle to hit a 7' spessmareen unless you caught him completely unawares.

>>53307522
Well you see the problem with that is it makes having the planet come with more issues like nuclear winter and radiation. Sure world like krieg thrive on that stuff, but some world are important for growing agriculture, mining, place of worship, manufacturing, or being a hive filled with humans.

>>53307578
Fusion weapons, which 40k has already advanced past, would actually cause minimal long-term geological or atmospheric damage beyond the annihilation of the biosphere, which could be terraformed.

So you wouldn't want to do it all the time by any stretch of the imagination, but if push-comes-to-shove it's not a pointless move.

>>53307109

Whoops responded to the wrong post heres my response anon

>>53307397

>>53307526
SINDREEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqinPt-vN54

>>53307480
Space marines are a Huge investment considering how their recruitment procedure is inefficient and takes a long ass time to produce results kind of like the Spartan-II program in halo.

If we had such a thing in real life it would be stupid due to how many kids would die until a candidate was found.

>>53307552

Sure. But that probability goes up when you are aiming at a group of them, and you are not the only one firing.

The problem isnt that marines are not better than baseline humans. They are. The problem is that they are not anywhere near invulnerable enough or punchy enough to justify their cost and timesink. I can have a thousand guardsmen with rocket launchers and long range artillery support for less than it costs to produce and equip a single marine, and in a fraction of the time, too.

With one or two exceptions, the guard can use the same guns as the marines anyway, so no firepower is really lost. And there are a worrying number of things that instakill a marine just as much as a human, so whats the point?

The IoM doesnt need a smaller number of super soldiers. They need to equip their REGULAR soldiers like they are expected to matter.

>>53307528
You're talking out of your ass. Concentrated fire and the like get employed constantly in the books, and it also works on the tabletop as well. If you make your Khornates charge out from the open like idiots they die.

>>53307552
IRL RPGs can't breach Power Armor, they're way too weak for that. You can use 40k RPGs to kill or injure Spess though, especially if you use krak missiles.

>>53307522
>let's use exterminatus only!!!
Except you need to defend your own populations or to remove the enemy without killing your dudes. You can't win on Armageddon via orbital bombing, because even if you did that and managed to kill every single Ork on it, that would mean destroying the entire industrial infrastructure which would render Armageddon entirely without value, and that's something the Imperium cannot afford (neither can they afford rebuilding the most important parts).
Also annihilation of the biosphere might be un-repairable, or require enormous amounts of time. Nobody knows how terraforming would work IRL and I'm not sure the Imperium even has the tech for it.

>>53307506
>It is hard to believe that a company of 100 space marines could fight and win a battle on a planet.
Why? SM rarely engage in field battles, they're more frequently used as shock troops that utterly decimate the areas they get into. They're like SF that don't need to fear getting shot at, like having Rambo IRL.

>>53307745
aren't orcs like spores or some shit
unless you use bioweapons, anihilation of biosphere seems like the only option to me

Here is one very important things you need to understand about tactics in 40k: If it looks like the Imperium is doing a stupid thing when it comes to warfare, it's probably because the Imperium is doing a stupid thing.

>>53307730
Well eith the arrival of the Primaris marines and papa smurff we might finally see he space marines go back to legion and great crusade strength where there were a lot more space marines.

I do agree though if only the guard were armed and armored like other sci fi verses such as mass effect, halo, starcraft, starship troopers the book not the ig movie. Add onto this with modern tech designs that wern't created by a dolt. Then they would kick the ass of those filthy blueberry communists and every other enemy of the Imperium.

>>53306568
The actually moves way faster than a human

>>53306496
They are called Space Marines because they are marines that fight in space.

Tanks don't move so good in space.

>>53306496
>What's the point of Space Marines?

Depends, are you talking about for the setting or the lore? For the setting, it's obvious. They're pretty neat and offer a cool idea to play.

For the lore? Well, they're designed to be used in a shocktrooper role with the support of armor and lighter infantry from the Solar Auxilia. They were the big, meaty armored fucks they used to exploit gaps that couldn't be exploited by tanks.

In "modern" 40k, they're used more in a Special Forces role due to the separation of Chapters and the limit of supplies and resources. They're the fuckers that do what the normal special forces can't, either due to lack of capabilities or lack of numbers. Astartes are a lot sturdier, a lot better armed and have abilities that you can't replicate with experience.

>>53307730
If the Imperium could equip Guardsmen with power Armour, they would... or would they, actually? Is it really a good idea to provide masses of men whose loyalty isn't even guaranteed (PDF rebel all the time, IG regiments can fall to Chaos, etc.) equipment that would be close to or equal to what the Space Marines have?

>>53307809
They are. Eradicating Ork incursions is extremely difficult, almost impossible IIRC, but there are many cases where destroying the planet or severely damaging it is not possible.
In Armageddon the destruction of the biosphere wouldn't be a problem actually because there's no biosphere to speak of left anyway, but you'd need to wipe out the infrastructure as well, and that cannot be done.

>>53306568
They can run at speed of 50km/h so...They outrun some tanks

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>>53307859
>Tanks don't move so good in space.
Oh yeah? Checkmate athiest.

They are super elite light infantry (in the modern sense i.e. unsupported by significant mechanized and armored elements, perhaps enjoying light direct-fire artillery, sometimes supported by indirect fire or air elements) that are meant to operate detached from the main body of deployed forces. Their purpose is to eliminate high-hat targets that cannot be taken out by other means (e.g. dug-in forces in a hardened location that can't be dislodged by bombing and is too risky to assault frontally) or to take positions with things that you want for yourself (and therefore can't destroy) and to hold those positions until they can be relieved by heavier (read: has artillery and tanks) forces.

Light infantry has to be able to engage both soft and hard targets, and SM equipment fits the bill since they are almost all carrying man-portable, rapid-firing rocket launchers and are armored/mobile enough to not immediately wither away under fire.

They are also, on an operational level, logistically self-sufficient, if not indefinitely so. They carry along almost all if not all of what they need and can be combat effective for long periods of time without resupply.

Their ability to insert on both the tactical and operational.level assists in all levels of their mission. The value of opening up another front against an enemy, especially if they are unprepared for it, should not be underestimated, especially if they can do so without being the extra juicy and relatively vulnerable target that is massed armor that also needs more or less continuous supply lines.

In this regard, think of them as something like WWII to post-WWII paratroopers or modern-day air cavalry.

>>53307975
I always hated the guntank design i think its an utter abomination.

I prefer stark jegans and gm snipers along wih the geara zulu. Those are great looking suits can you imagine if the imperiums had mobile suits? Basically titans in spaaaaaaaaceeeee. It would teach those blue communists a lesson.

>Why would you need dude who moves at 90 kmph, lift 2tons, can withstand RPG like nothing and his most basic weapon is basically a automatic grenade laucher with the precision of a rifle?

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>>53306496
>heavy infantry.
>faster, stronger, way harder to kill than normal doods
>the power armor they wear lets them wield weapons that normally require a crew or vehicle to field.
>They have their own vehicles too for when the air becomes filled with explosions and las cannon beams.

Space marines are an example of scale. While it might take 500 humans to capture a building. it'd only take like 10 marines, mostly because the marines are walking meat grinders.

Death watch uses them as special forces with max emphasis on "right time, right place". Plus having a soldier that can naturally live 1,000 years kind of helps out in the long run.

>>53308000
>Their purpose is to eliminate high-hat targets that cannot be taken out by other means (e.g. dug-in forces in a hardened location that can't be dislodged by bombing and is too risky to assault frontally) or to take positions with things that you want for yourself (and therefore can't destroy) and to hold those positions until they can be relieved by heavier (read: has artillery and tanks) forces.
They also sometimes just drop in among the Guard so that they can get a morale boost, because oh my gaaaaaaaaaaaaaad (emperor) turns out the Astartes weren't just legends but actually real.

>>53306496
Because anyone will crap their pants when they found out that the, well, IFV equivalent is small enough to go into door-to-door fighting.

But that's taken from fanon.

>>53308068
Thats another thing space marines were so few and rare that the average guardsmen never saw one. Let that sink in for a moment.

>>53308068
This. Especially if you do so with Chapters that are especially beloved by the populace (Ultras, Blangels) or who have more than the usual level of regard for mortals (Crimfists, Sallies).

>>53306496
they can take and hold ground, the things that make infantry the queen of battle

>>53308057
>Plus having a soldier that can naturally live 1,000 years kind of helps out in the long run.
not every battle-brother is a fucking space vampire

>>53308169
They all can live for that long XD

>>53308098
Yeah, but even "lad who cares about the civilians keep killing the [insert enemy name]" Chapters like Black Templars have the same effect, at least for Guardsmen.
...though this might be void if you're an utterly crazy Chapter like Minotaurs or some shit like that. And you probably should tell Lamenters to keep away because everybody will be 2sad2live if they hear about their history.

>>53308169
Astartes can live longer than a millennium easy if they don't die in battle. I believe multiple millennia is where problems start.

>>53308182
They might be immortal its just since they see action all the time they tend to die before that happens.

>>53307964
then take out the tank engine a put in two space marines on bicycle

>>53306496
Juvenile power fantasy. All in-setting considerations are second to that.

>>53308225
What now manlet marines!?

>>53308219
Ork do that, they just take out the engine and draw new one, but thus could work too

>>53308219
HE'S LEAKING THE LATEST STC! INQUISITORS! INQUISITORS!

Space marines are tanks, downsized to fit inside giant STC mazes. They double as all-purpose dudes for weird situations like vacuum or deathworlds.

40k also carefully avoids giving panzerfausts out by making them plasma guns, meltas, or other rare/unreliable/special weapons.

In a shitty "modern /k/ meets 40k" thread, modern earth would spam shaped charges like there was no tomorrow. Marines are seriously tough vs stray shrapnel and blasts, but any shaped charge bigger than 40mm is going to 1shot them.

>>53306568

>“‘Sire, I believe we should save them for–’ The human said nothing more. The front of his face came free with a sickly crack, the flesh and jagged bone crunching in the Night Lord’s fist. Talos ignored the body as it toppled, spilling the insides of its halved skull onto the decking. No one had even seen him move, such was the prophet’s speed, clearing ten metres and vaulting a console table in the time it took a human heart to beat once.” Pg.93 Void Stalker

I think you know full well that marines can move faster than the human eye can see and you're just trying to aggravate people.

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>>53306966

literally unable to understand that every situation is not black and white. incredible.

sometimes you want something in-between X and Y. this is not an amazing or difficult concept. sometimes you want something heavier than standard infantry but lighter than a tank. that's literally all you are apparently unable to grasp.

it's like you are saying "why do humans live in houses? they're more expensive than tents, but they don't hold as many people as skyscrapers. there's no reason to build anything between those two extremes."

i hope you are trolling because if you are not your parents are very, very sorry they had you.

>>53308591
human locomotion is influenced by both gravity and human strength.
No matter how strong space marines are, as long as they cannot manipulate gravity, it is impossible for them to move 10 meters within the blink of an eye

>>53308611
well, i am not a expert of military, but to me, it seems that the benefits of infantry are
>ability to use stairs, ladders, doors
>able to camouflage in certain terrain
>good for occupation and keeping up order

Marines would be to heavy and too bulky to use most stairs, ladders and doors
They can't properly camouflage due to their bulkyness and weight
Nobody in WH40K cares about occupation and pacifying enemy civilians, they just genocide them

So I don't really see the special niche for space marines

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>>53308664
>as long as they cannot manipulate gravity
Well, actually...

>>53308611
He doesn't reply when you give him solid answers with no wiggle room for him to keep being retarded.

If he wasn't trolling, there were like six posts in this thread that he would've replied to with, "Oh, okay, so they DO have a purpose. Thanks!"

>>53308703
>Nobody in WH40K cares about occupation and pacifying enemy civilians, they just genocide them
If they're xenos or Chaos, true.

If a cult has taken over a hive but the majority of the citizens are still loyal, it's cost-effective to do a surgical strike, which marines are good for.

But then >>53308731 was right, so carry on with your bait.

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>>53306514
Neither can Marines.

>>53306496
>>53306568
>>53306745
>DUHHH Y DA ARMEE NOT JUS USE DA TANK!?? Y USE SOLDUR, SOLDUR IS WEEK N SLOW. JUST USE TANK MANN
Wow dude, you should be a military strategist. Why do the world's top military forces even use infantry? Clearly you have it all figured out. Flooding the battlefield with 1 type of unit/force is the best strategy, I can see that now.

>>53309002
but space marines are to heavy, bulky and expensive to fit the role of infantry

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>>53308664
2e Angels of Death codex mentions gravity dampers and states than power armour weights 250 pounds.

>>53309049
They're specialist forces you marker huffer. They don't use them in every engagement - that's what the general infantry (Imperial Guard) are for. They are typically sent down in drop pods with a specific objective. The pod can be targeted to land in specific zones and can crash into enemy forces, whereafter huge armor-clad super soldiers come out blasting with weapons that can obliterate a normal-sized man with a single round. They are much, much more effective than GIs, each marine being several hundred times better in every way. They can take cover, advance over difficult terrain (particularly assault forces with jetpacks), enter close quarters/structures, and change weapons to suit the situation and adapt to the battlefield. When they need tanks, they have their own heavy vehicles to deploy when necessary.

Stop being autistic.

>>53308664
I'm not qualified to engage with the effects of gravity on bipedal movement(not that I'm taking it for granted you are) but that extract was as canon as anything else. In a fiction things will happen and become something you just have to accept as a part of that setting even if you don't believe it makes sense. Either that or just accept you've entered the realm of your own headcanon, which has no effect on the canon lore.

Space marines can move faster than eyesight. It's an established feat, so you can't keep harping on about how they're bad tactically because they're 'slow and bulky.' They're patently not, I have other examples to show similar extreme abilities, and it totally invalidates the central arguements of this entire thread.

What's the point of Navy Seals? They take more resources and time to train than regular infantry and they can't carry flak cannons, so why bother when you can just drown the enemy in expendable infantry, or run them over with a tank?
I don't understand how a highly trained specialist force could possibly be useful.

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>>53306568
You do know the difference between tactical and strategic movement speeds? Or are you just an idiot that doesn't understand tank warfare. Tanks don't move much in battle. They have only gained the ability to within the last generation of tanks, and those tanks are still using old tactics. Next war's tech, last war's strategy type thing.

Most tank warfare tactics include the fact that they need infantry to support their flanks to stop them from being ripped apart by said infantry. Infantry move at the speed on infantry in tactical combat (derp?). Therefore tanks move as the speed of infantry in most combat scenarios.

Then there is the fact that tactically, a human infantryman reacts far faster then any form of vehicle. Therefore infantry faster then tanks.

Your logic fails at all levels other then that of a complete simpleton. Impressive. You have made hollywood look intelligent.

>>53309273
I'm not the guy you're replying to, but I always found this "move faster than human eye can perceive" to be stupid and beyond my suspension of disbelief, and I am as much of a hardcore space marine fan as one can get.
I have about a decade of martial arts and fencing training behind me, and while I can see how some quick hand movements are difficult to follow to the human eye, that's entirely different to a man sized thing moving in a linear path.
nothing as big as an armored astartes, superhuman or not, can be believably move as fast as to "appear invisible". I am sure space marines cannot run faster than a racing bike, even short distances, and even bikes don't move as fast so you cannot see them.

>>53309002
>Why do the world's top military forces even use infantry?
To take care of overpopulation. And to put the meat in burgers.

>>53309465
I've never seen descriptions of a marine getting impossible to see across a long distance in all fairness, that example was a matter of ten metres and one arm movement. Most sources I've seen of space marines over longer distances have them being pants-shittingly fast(there's that transhuman dread paragraph that's one of the best bits of the Horus Heresy books) but still at most just blurred.

I think Graham McNeill is a real mid-hitter as far as he portrays space marines-not as underpowered as Abnett but not Matt Ward either, and he has a marine crossing what's implied to be 30 metres too quickly to be noticed, albeit in low visibility, then killing four guys in 3 seconds with a knife and his bare hands. Much more useful than the bulky metal ogres people are making them out to be.

My overall point is more that a lot of this thread is leaning on 'I don't think something as big as a marine could be fast in real life, therefore it can't be canon in a fictional setting and I can ignore it in my attempts to shit-talk marines'

>>53307416

Because that's really feminine and gay

>>53310091
perfect for the marinelets

>>53310038
Yeah, the Night Lords trilogy was great and all but that scene was fucking retarded. Throughout the rest of the book they don't move that fast, but for some reason in that one instance he becomes a psyker with warp speed.

>>53307054
Space Marines have tanks. Better tanks than everybody else.

>>53308664
All Space Marines are made from the warp. They are literally made out of physics-defying magic.

>>53306568
>>53306548
>>53306745
>>53306780
Either bait, doesn't know jack shit about 40k or just a complete moron.

Either way, this is yet another thread of "X vs Y, WHO WINS" about fictional stuff that won't ever be able to be compared or questioned objectively.

>>53306496
Because Space Marines regularly achieve victories ten times their number of tanks would fail to grasp.

>>53307528
Khorne Berserkers don't do that, they rain down on your head from orbit right into the middle of your command posts. Terminators teleport into the middle of your lines, while Bikers blast away at your flanks. Tanks and daemon engines, along with cultists and corrupt artillery, provide covering fire.

>>53310038

To be fair, for every narrative peice that describes a space marine moving and fighting like a Dragonball Z character, there are a hundred of space marines just acting like bigger stronger dudes, fighting orks and such on even terms or getting OHKO pulped to bits by a Crises Suit jumping on top of them like Mario.

The peaks of marine ability in the lore are drowned in a sea of "badass, but honestly not THAT much stronger than everyone else" examples.

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>>53308703
i'm going to attempt to illustrate, graphically, this concept of the middle ground that you cannot seem to understand.

>>53310712
> Khorne Berserkers don't do that, they rain down on your head from orbit right into the middle of your command posts.

Which works once, and then they are on the ground like everyone else. GW doesnt believe that chains of command can extend further than 20 feet, so any "decapitating strike" INSTANTLY ends the battle because no one else can lead.

Instead of, say, "Our HQ got overrun with marines? Shit. Well, turn it into a glassy crater, everyone there is dead anyway and at least we can vaporize 20 marines and therefore essentially instantly kill off an army twice as strong as ours with a single airstrike."

>>53307479
It's more like 7 and they probably weigh 1000lbs in their armor.

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>>53306496
You've done well. Im not about to jump in this cesspool, but have a (you)

>>53310909
I don't understand, you're saying we can fit more infantrymen in the middle example right

>>53306496
Concentration of power.

You can fit a hundred space marines inna room that couldn't' fit 100 tanks.

They're basically break through troops you can use to concentrate more force in an area than you could normally. Normal tanks and infantry can then exploit the break through.

>>53310948
You can't do that because by the time you figure out what happened they're already ripping through whatever else is close by while their enthusiastic minions are attacking everywhere else.

>>53308182
>>53308196
>>53308210
the normal life span is about 400 years. that said, space marines don't die of old age.

>>53306496
There will ALWAYS be need of infantry.

Space Marines can survive and fight in situations where normal humans wouldn't survive most of the time.

Combine it with their bio-boosting enhancements of their implants, their training, tactics and gear, they are capable of countering nearly every threat.

A normal Chapter is good only for pin-point rapid attacks (plus whatever other tactics the Chapters favors most), but a Legion would anally annihilate any major force.

>>53306548
Justicar Alaric could climb a Titan and he also had to do so with strapping his halberd on his back.

Space Marines don't need stairs. They can climb their way up.

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>>53306496
Space marines are not slow, the motherfuckers are fast too, they can keep up with the eldar in close combat

>>53307506
Leman Russes were never tractors. I'll never understand how this meme caught in. The Centaur Assault Carrier was a tractor.

>>53308826
Thanks for posting this anon.

>2007
>10 years ago
I feel old now.

>>53307578
>>53307745
There's a biiiiig difference between 'nukes' and Exterminatus. Actual nuclear devices are amazingly versatile: they scale from 'dig a quick trench' to 'erase this city'. So the point of nuking from orbit is you take out the compromised areas completely and leave the rest in peace.

Chaos? Orks? Tyranids? Tau? Nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke - problem solved. You only still have to worry about the Necrons and the Eldar, the former for their high-tech shielding, the latter because they're devious.

Oh also, do nukes work in the Warp? I don't see why they wouldn't but the local physics might fuck with the strong nuclear force or something.

>>53306496
tanks are more affordable than space marines in warhams.

Try to have that make sense.

>>53306822

>space marines are supposed to be worth more than a 1000 guardsmen

It's hyperbole, a few hundred space marines can defeat an entire world by causing such chaos amongst the enemy that the regular imperial forces can easily achieve compliance instead of waging a costly campaign.

They aren't literally worth 1000 guardsmen in a firefight.

The point of space marines is to have an unbelievably unfair and lopsided small scale battle that has way bigger consequences.

>>53314706
a space marine is worth about 3 guardsmen on the tabletop, about 10 in dark heresy, and whatever number is convenient to the plot in the novels

>>53314810

This is pretty appropriate, frankly I like 1st and 2nd edition space marine fluff where they were much closer to their tabletop equivalent. It makes their heroics way more significant when humanities best are still fighting an uphill battle

>>53306496
Kind of like this, but with guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDSf3Kshq1M

>>53314810
A PC Space Marine is worth a whole lot fucking more than PC Guardsmen. Especially in the "not instantly die" territory and the "able to shotpunt a fucking tank" ability.

A space marine can go on fighting way longer than a tank without regular support.

Tanks run out of fuel, marines can eat the bark of a tree to keep going if they have to.
Tanks need to be supplied with ammunition when they run out, a marine can keep punching shit or grab something that shoots from the ground and continue on.

A marine is also basically a one man tank that only requires a single crew. A real tank needs a well trained crew that works together flawlessly to function properly, which can take a lot of training and adjusting time whenever a dead crewmember has to be replaced.

A marine is more silent and stealthy than a tank. Ever heard a tank drive by ? It's not hard to be more quiet than that.

Also, the fact that marines are a way smaller target than a tank with almost the same resilience is a huge benefit. Because a smaller, agile target is always harder to hit than a huge metal box that will always move somewhat predictable.

>>53316329
why do you space your points that way?

>>53306822
Ya know, not recognizing sarcasm is a sign of being an autist

>>53315933
PC space marines can end up being as strong as the named ICs from the tabletop, being a match for up to 20 lasgun armed men in a straight fight

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A tank can't be used as a 5 man boarding party to decimate a vessel of 10,000 ordinary beings.

>>53306658
underrated post

>>53307723
We don't have the benefit of untold trillions upon trillions upon trillions of humans. To us, the process of making Space Marines would be a huge risk because we can't just toss teenagers at it and see if it works. The Imperium can, because human life means almost nothing on that kind of scale. We're talking about the society that feeds a thousand psykers a day to a dead man on a chair and doesn't bat an eye. It's all about the context of the setting, yo.

>>53306568
Except that's not true at all? In lore they can outpace humans with ease, sprinting they can keep up with some vehicles for a brief period.

They are also more manouverable, agile, can change weapons and loadouts with ease, and are fucking great for morale (its also a LOT harder to hit a marine with anti armour weapons than a tank)

>>53307081
>it will waste much less fuel for that, because by its nature, wheels are more energy efficient than bipedal locomotion
Umm do you realise how much "calorie equivalent" fuel vehicles used when compared to humans

>>53306845
this, never take greentext idiots seriously, they're ALL subhumans

>>53320480
wew lad

>>53306822
LMAO only on /tg/

Thanks for the belly-laugh

>>53311141

And there we have in writing, folks. You can't kill space marines with nonretarded tactics not because it wouldnt work, but simply because you are not alliwed to do so.

Because in a setting where radio communication and radar is a thing, its simply fucking impossible for anyone to every know what is happening more than 20 feet away from them.