/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Question for magefags

Fuck, Marry, Kill: Vampire, Werewolf, Changeling

V20 Dark Ages Companion, anyone?

>>53303192
I could see it. Have the protagonist be a Sabbat shovelhead and set the game in a Camarilla-controlled city; you could even have the Deb of Night from Bloodlines make a return as one of the ingame radio stations.

>>53301946
Not enough has been released yet, but id bet most of the conflict comes from various anarch factions trying to fill the void left by the camarilla, dodging the Inquisition, and trying to figure out what the cammed are up to; they made it sound like the sabbat is sort being used for some ploy device in the middle east and in something of disarray elsewhere.

Which gives me an idea - a whole campaign based on whether or not the anarch co op that rules city X should accept ex-sabbat vamps, can they still do the vinculum, etc

Just started a Werewolf chronicle.
I'm having a HUGE amount of Perception exceptionals from my players.

Does anyone have a bunch of conditions that fit, or do I have to invent my own ones?

>>53303528
This does make for an interesting setting for Anarchs where bad boys are sorta out of the picture thou still lurking and burden of piceing vampire society together falls on Anarch shoulders

>>53303282

Yeah, it's weird no one posted it yet. I know the previous 2 books were put up online the same week when it went out to the backers.

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>>53303192
Hey, gang. I'm starting a project with the intent of building a fictional city for VtM, WtA and MtAsc that builds off of established material. I don't have much so far but please take a look and tell me what you think.

crbynight.blogspot.com

>>53303684

Yeah, I think that's what they're going for - world's ending, and these ragtag fucks have just been tossed into an unwinnable situation and need to make themselves comfortable before it inevitably comes crashing down.

In that sense, I guess they captured the modern youth zeitgeist just as well as they did in the 80s.

>>53304096

Don't go down this path. It's much easier to look up a city and build in it's history.

I just found out the city I'm running my vamp game had the largest necropolis in the world as I was reading about it.

Fake cities always feel artificial. Lacking.

>>53304885
That's why I'm building it in around real ones.

>>53303282
Waiting as well.
To me Dark Ages is the best Vampire has to offer.

>>53303192


REAL THREAD
>>53305781
>>53305781
>>53305781

>>53305791

What the fuck are you doing, you retard?

>>53305816
shut up, magescum.

>>53305822

I sincerely hope you get banned, falseflagging shitter that you are.

>>53305836
Better wait for the magefags shitpost to come, amright?

>>53303192
Yes i think so, other than Mage (although, i can't imagine a Dreaming GTA would be very popular)

>>53305627

IMO, I like Revised best.

>>53306326
Considering the violent nature of it, you could definitely do one for Werewolf. Think Prototype or Ghost Recon Wildlands

Which source book had info on stuff like dragon's breath rounds or mustard gas? Armory or reloaded? And can it still work for 2e?

Do you people think new players should read the clanbooks and learn everything they can about the clan of their choice before play or do you think they should gradually learn things as they play?

>>53305791
>tfw vampfag has to make his own safe space

>>53306623
clanbooks are full of spoilers, so I would say no if they don't want to ruin the surprise.

>>53306623
Depends on if the character you build knows those things are not. Ideally the player both knows the books and isn't a faggot about metagaming things their character wouldn't know, really eases the burden on the ST.

>>53303592

Yeah. It's called "Don't shit on your players choice of where they focus their skills, you Adversarial twat."

>>53306326

How would you go about doing a Mage video game, though? Without doing a CYOA like Life is Strange, I mean.

>>53307161
>How would you go about doing a Mage video game, though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN5mQxX-Zd0
>Virtual Adepts
This is an old trailer and they've added a bunch of shit, btw. For starters, they made it so that gross block.ly shit isn't necessary, and you can switch it to just being an in-game javascript editor iirc.

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New Mage general thread.

Go here to discuss all mage related topics.
>>53305781

>>53307318
Fuck off.

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Hello magefriends,
I am interested in your game (Awakening) but I have a question. WoD/CofD is supposed to be dark (it's in the name). What is Dark about Mage? Vampire is about the horror of being a monster, Werewolf is about the horror of constantly being under attack, Changeling has the PTSD, Promethean has the loneliness, etc. But as far as I can tell Mage is, while not light-hearted, not particularly dark either.

>>53307366
>He thinks WoD is about horror.

>>53307366
>WoD/CofD is supposed to be dark (it's in the name).
I think it's supposed to be the insignificance and futility of your struggle, despite having superpowers, but CofD is best played as dresden files or early season supernatural IMO.

>>53307161
>mage game
You control nonawakened detective discovering truth about one death that looked like coincedece. You find out it was actually impossible. You dig dipper and found not an answer but a teacher. After some time expanding you perception and mind limits you able to find new details on crime scene, track killer, its a mage, he twist some space in front of you, your mind snaps, titles go on abd you see awakening trip behind them.and if you wait long enouph you can see yourcharacter just after awakening, but no longer control him. He says to you that his Fate is no longer under your control

>>53307366
Imagine you saw a perfect world. Ideal. But you saw that through a window. First time in your life you look around and realise you in a shithole. Forever. You cant get out. You in a sealed cabin that sank in the see and every second it goes deeper. Sun, light, air is Above, you descending below. Mage is about finding out that everything is a lie.

>>53307366

There are several grim theme's running throughout mage.

Mage society is inherently hypocritical. For people who are obsessed with finding the true nature of reality mages really suck at being honest with each other. Truth and knowledge are currency for politcal manipulation and intricate economies of favors.

There is the inherent hubris of magic. Consider a game of Mage as a more ethical version of the stanford prison experiment. What would people do (NPC or PC) if they're given absolute power and privilege?

There is the sense of futility in being unable to enact any meaningful change on the world despite all your power. And the constant struggle to not devolve into a tinpot dictator in your struggle against your primary antagonists which are all but omnipotent.

>>53307366

Mage's horror is both cosmic and existential.

The truth isn't always reassuring and often has unfortunate implications. If you tried to show the people in your life these things it would go poorly.

I think a lot of the bombast and arrogance of mages is part of the effort to adjust to a world they're no longer entirely sure of anymore and a defensive reaction to the sheer scope of the universe they are now aware of.

And more viscerally, there's the "what have I done" moments when you fuck up with your magic or give in on your principles.

This goes for either game line.

>>53307509
Yeah, that was what I figured, a sleeper becoming awakened over the course of the game.

>>53307509
The entire game is one long mystery play of someone's awakening? That could actually work.

How do I stat a (un)living skeleton, /wodg/?

oWoD.

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>>53308367
Five dots in Spooky, Three dots in stealth with a specialization (Inside Bodies)

>>53308367
However you like? The book tells you how strong you are with 3 or 4 dots in Strength.

You could however add some special bonuses. Like every slashing damage is halved like bashing with Vampires. Maybe give them Fortitude? And since it's a SKELETON not a ZOMBIE, maybe add the fear effect of Presence (2?) for everybody that sees it with a opposed Courage roll or something.
This ain't DnD, friend. You are the ST.

When was the last time you actually enjoyed the setting oWoD?

>>53308621
I'm yet to not enjoy it? At least it has a setting, not like the other abomination

>>53308592
It's a specially raised skeleton by a Demon (A Slayer) using 5 dots of Lore of Death. It said that it starts with 1 dots in every physical attribute and must roll to see if I can gain extra point to assign, I rolled and got 4 successes, but it doesn't speak about other things like skills. does it have "brawl?" because a 3 dice "menace" I guess is going to be really... Weak. Even for a mindless drone with a programmed task.

It has 10 health levels and it ignores wounds penalties, but the slashing reduction and fortitude reduction sounds really nice.

>>53308621
...The last time I ran a game?

Dude, I like oWoD so much I'm writing a free city setting for 20th edition here >>53304096

>>53308684
Mein Gott. Someone is actually running Fallen?

Does anybody else watch nature documentaries to get ideas for crazy shit you can do with Life magic?

>>53308684
Talk to your ST about it. You could always argue that's as skilled as you are - you give it the talents and skills. Or you can argue that it gets talents/skills on the same level as the connected attribute, so whenever it rolls Attribute + Ability, you roll Attribute x2. Demon: The Fallen needs a rework/errata badly.

>>53308828
I am the ST.

And know you'll think: "Well then why are you even asking, do whatever you want"

Sure, but I wanted to create a balanced npc, that's all.

>>53308885
Go with dot 3 talents/skills for guards. 2 dot for trash mobs. 4 dots for better guards/bodyguards. 5 dots for the supa skeleton.

>>53307509
Simbly ebic :DDDD aapplause for you good sirb :DDDDDDDDDD

So nobody ever actually posted Rio, right?

>>53308621
Last time I played.

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Which splat would work better for an 80s Yakuza game? Vampires seem good (blood brothers takes on a more literal meaning), but maybe Werewolves would work as well, for the pack dynamics?

>>53307366
Check out night horrors for mage.

>>53303221
>Marry
Werewolf
>Fuck
Changeling
>Kill
Vampire

>>53309161
Never in this thread. Maybe check out Seven chan to see if they have it?

>>53309302

What sort of feelings are you trying to bring out? Because both of those work, but have very different feelings.

>>53309302
If you're looking to run a game like that series I'd wait on trinity, maybe even adventure! if you're really patient

Will Immortals still work in CofD?

So I just got into all this world of darkness stuff and I figured this would be the best place to ask. How would I go about starting to learn Demon or Mummy? The lines really caught my eye but I have no idea what to do. After that how would I go about running it. There seems to be a lot with core books and side books and I'm a bit lost.

>>53310945
COFD answer, I don't play Old.

The two gamelines have a core book that covers their backstory, setting and mechanics. Mummy, being 1st Edition will also require both the New World of Darkness core book and the free God-Machine Chronicle errata - 1st ed splats were essentially expansion packs on a single core that told you how to play mortals, whereas 2nd Ed like Demon has the core roles built in.

Read the books and get to grips with the stuff, then if you want you can read other books for each gameline.

Maybe give Vampire a read too. Demon & Mummy are a bit weird in their mechanics, and Vampire can help give a foundation of what a "normal" game looks like as a point of comparison

>>53311057
So core book for demon and nwod core+god machine+mummy splat for mummy right? Would the older computer game vampire the masquerade bloodlines be any help on getting a feel that you mentioned?

>>53310945
There are two "settings"
oWoD and nWoD (Or CoD)

Every setting has its own splat and version of that splat that it may differ, and of course, a different system.

For oWoD you have Demon The Fallen (That I Suggest, as I master it) and Mummy The Resurrection.

For nWoD you have Demon the Descent (really cool) and Mummy the Curse.

To play a game of the older line you just need the core book, if you want to play a game of newer line you need the World of darkness manual plus the manual of the splat you would like to play.

>>53311261
Bloodlines is from Vampire the Masquerade, the oWoD counterpart of the vampire gameline.

>>53310478
Hmm, well i suppose the feeling I'd want to invoke is "greed", tempered by "loyalty". You're in the Yakuza for one reason or another, but mostly to get more power. But, you also can't be seen as betraying your bosses. If they need you to do something, you're expected to do it, but you're also expected to be trying to get yourself a place at the table.

>>53296168
It was half and half right up until the oracles. To my knowledge Gnosticism has nothing approaching people who reach true enlightenment and then turn back to guide others, where thats kind of one of the central focuses of dharmic faiths.

>>53312101
I'm from a 'dharmic' background and while I'm non practicing some of the fluff about archmages is very similar to stories my grandma would tell me about saints and stuff who gained massive supernatural power and boons from transcending.

>>53310716
I don't see why not.

>>53312101
The Oracles are a fable.
There is no evidence of their existence other than the Watchtowers, and some Seers allege that they were created by the Exarchs.

Even Archmasters cannot find them.

>>53311610
Vampire sounds good for that, since a big part of its theme is warring with your inner Beast and your vile, baser desires, and another is the relentless politicking of Kindred society.

>>53309161
Yeah they did, like 2 weeks ago or something, but I thought that someone would add it to the MEGA

>>53312725
Not that guy, butt I can't find a link to it; the only link someone posted was to DC.

>>53312770
Nah I distinctly remember someone posted it but since I wasn't interested I didn't download it but I'm sure some other anon did; maybe he could share?

>>53312671
Talking oWoD
New is even more so. You have any idea where the word Bodhisattva comes from?

>>53312671

But that begs the question why do people awaken/ascend/attain archmastery at all? If the exarchs are truly unopposed why do they have agents that act for them at all? They can and probably do change reality at whim to a form they want.

Is there a good place to get some 2e mage homebrew? I'm mainly looking for Legacies, and I'm too lazy to try and homebrew/update one up myself.

>>53313068
>>53312671

I actually have a hypothesis about this.

The Oracles and Exarchs are fictional anthropomorphisms of the Watchtowers and Arcana themselves, respectively.

They don't "want" anything, it's just what the Archmasters devoted to them think they want. If you remember, archmasters can create ochemata themselves.

But this begs the question: if the Supernal is not a place, what is ascension really?

>>53313236
In Chronicles, to be clear. Not in Classic.

>>53306330
I still want the companion book

>>53313255
Onyx Path forums maybe?

>>53308621
...Are there actually people who don't?

>>53313253
But then where did the Abyss come from?

The Exarchs killed Ouroboros when they ascended and created the Abyss.

Personally, I headcanon the Abyss as being what happens when you kill supernal entities and concepts so this isn't as much of a problem but it applies to the standard interpretation.

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Legacyfag here.
Been busy for a little bit, creating homebrew stuff.

Anyone got any Legacy update requests?

>>53313493
I am super-happy about this, thank you quite a bit!

>>53313493
Huh. Not to nitpick, but Clavicularius seems to be Spirit ruling in the 2e core book. Any particular reason you decided to make it mind ruling? Purely curious about the thought process behind that.

>>53313661
Because Clavs as written in 1e are all about Goetia, and those fall under the purview of Mind, and I have been trying to update 1e rather than predict what the devs want to do with the Legacies in 2e.
I would assume they're doing a moderate re-write of the Clavs, much as will be done with the Blank Badges.

But as they exist in 1e, they're all about that Mind.
With Spirit added as a conjunctive to permit them to do more "Spirit" kinds of stuff with them through their combined knowledge.

>>53313780
Ah, I was just curious because they actually showed up in the "other legacies" under spirit. Either way though, these seem pretty cool, thanks!

>>53313472

My answer - Abyss is what was left over from layers of the universe the fall destroyed.

The fall was different from what people think it was, exarchs and oracles being fabrications, but it still happened. There was a ladder to the supernal, but since the supernal is not a place, it didn't work and fucked everything.

>>53313472
The way I look at it when the exarchs ascended and kicked the supernal gods out they defined what reality is a countably infinite set of supernal symbols. But this also created an uncountably infinite set of symbols that can't be real and thus the Abyss in it's current incarnation was created. The gate sealing himself within the abyss was the only way the remaining exarchs could control the supernal he defined the undefinable. It would also mean he's potentially greater than the other exarchs combined.

>>53313493

Transhuman Engineers please

>>53313891
I also theorize that the pseudorealm that exists within the gauntlet is a fragment of what the world was before the fall. The death of papa woof destroyed what little remained of the time before.

>>53313780

Clavs are a Mastigos / Silver Ladder Legacy, so in 2e they have Spirit as their third Ruling Arcanum because they already *have* Mind. Although Mind is the optional Arcanum for their Attainments.

Remember: Mind lets you manipulate Goetia somewhat, but Spirit (or Death) lets you impose a Manifestation on them. Any goetic summoner who wants his creations to physically manifest has to have an Arcanum that does it.

>>53313493

Hidden Ministry of the Gate

>>53313253
>fictional anthropomorphisms of the Watchtowers and Arcana themselves
Don't those already exist for the arcana? The aeons or something

Of course there's always the idea from imperial mysteries that archmasters go to parallel universes every time they interact with the supernal.

>>53314196
Hey Dave hope you've been well. I got a question about goetic summons. As I understand it summoning a goetia from the Oneiros or whatever requires you being near a place of power like a hallow.

If you have the 'astral adept' merit can you skip that and use the merit ritual for summoning.

>>53313493
Any of the other tamers

Anyone looking for online players here? I really need to play VTM.

>>53314196
Is there a mechanical difference between using either spirit or death to manifest or is it mostly flavor?

>>53314196
Fair enough, I kinda just left them with Mind through because even though it's less optimal for a Mastigos Legacy than getting another Ruling Arcanum, they do get some utility out of it, and it makes more sense as the Primary Arcanum for a Goetic Legacy.

Is there a power or ritual which allows a vampire to command his children's ghouls?

Asking for a game.

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>>53313915
Transhuman Engineers added.
Might take a look at another of the Tamers now.
The Gate's a bit too... Out there for me right now.

>>53314885
Think you can add the Scions of God?

>>53313253
Arcana already have those things, the Aeons.

And the Supernal isn't actually a place that you can go and walk around. When you Ascend you weave yourself into the tapestry of reality, becoming a living symbol.

So in V20DA Companion, they did alternative combat rules. They're basically streamlined and got rid of the rolling for Damage and Soak rules. It's basically CofD.

>>53315387
How do potence and fortitude work with that?

>>53315404
It doesn't actually say... Nice job OPP.

I'd house rule it to be 2 dice if you spent blood on the potence though since 1 success is about 2 dice on average.

>>53315242

Astral Plane is part of the lie.

>>53315387
Could you upload the file somewhere? Pretty please?

>>53315441
After I finish reading it while pooping

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>>53315434
>tfw you figured out a similar system days before the companion was released.

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>>53314514
Added Tamers of Water, because they have mai magefu Rebecca Nil.
Might not be the most 100% lore accurate, but I'm short on time, and their 1e Attainments leave a lot to the imagination.

Might move on to Scions of God in a bit.

>>53315387
So the V5 combat rules. Noice.

>>53315387
Do they also have extra stuff for the standard combat rules?

>>53313493

Whipping Boys, Pygmalions, or Austere.

I'm convinced the latter are a consequence of the God-Machine fucking about with the Awakened or vice-versa.

Oh yeah, a question I've been meaning to ask. Given that ascended exarchs can still apparently make orchremata, and that there are supposedly like tons of them, what exactly is stopping them from destroying the watchtowers?

>>53315774

Absolutely nothing. Why they haven't is a major mystery in the setting.

>>53315774
1) They might not be able to
2) They might not want to (Watchtowers give them Seer pawns)

Sure it might also create shitheads who would rise against them, but for now the benefits of having loyal Awakened servants probably outweighs the risk of having Awakened ants in rebellion dicking about and snatching up crumbs.

>>53314885

Then what about Legion from Summoners?

>>53315742
Couldn't stay away, could you Aspel?

>>53315804
I have trouble believing the second if only because the exarchs whole MO is that they want magic for themselves and fuck everyone else.
>>53315774
Hell for that matter why aren't they using ochremata to do basically all the legwork in the first place?

>>53315242
Is there any way to 'undo' that or are mages just straight fucked because no matter what they do the exarchs are all already there.

http://ran.2hu.moe/pvllsf.pdf

There, I posted it. It's full of errors, like how they think a 9th level discipline costs 45 XP

>>53316026
Allahu Akbar!
May Allah repay you.

>>53315866

who dat?

>>53316004
Could you clarify I'm not sure what you're asking.

>>53316218
The exarchs being part of the supernal. I mean I now nearly none of the splats really have a hope of 'winning' in their conflict, but at least in theory werewolves could kill all the Hosts or Pure or whatever, it just looks like theres nothing mages have any hope of doing to best the exarchs.

>>53316004
Exarchs either can't, or don't remove Ascended Mages from the Supernal.
Actually, we'd generally never even know unless we were Archmasters anyway, because so much as one Ascension would rewrite history.

>>53316250
Well, there's no 'beating' the exarchs the war is over and they won.

The General isn't a gun-runner causing wars he is war, jingoism, friction, gravity, light. Fighting him makes as much sense as trying to change the speed of light by shooting at the sun with artillery.

The only hope of having any input on the exarchs design is to become like them and ascend.

>>53316437
>The only hope of having any input on the exarchs design is to become like them and ascend.
Yeah but thats kind of my question. Even if in some theoretical where a million 'good' mages ascend, can they then in some way try and combat the exarchs influence from inside the supernal?

>>53316158
Okay, you're not Aspel.

The funny thing is that my first post in this general also got me accused of being Aspel.

>>53309302
If you can ignore some of the bullshit and look past the unintended implications, Kindred of the East is the obvious go-to answer, Alternatively, you could run the game with a party of hunters. The idea of a Hunters Hunted, Reckoning, or Vigil chronicle about members of the Yakuza going toe to toe with the monsters that stalk their streets and prowl the shadows of Japan sounds incredibly badass, not to mention the fact that the power gap between the players and their prey would necessitate cooperation in most cases and emphasize the value of loyalty to one another.

Out of the two that you specifically brought up though, I'd say probably go with Vampire. Kindred are normally solitary and territorial creatures, but the Vinculum can circumvent that, and Masquerade also seems much more fitting than Apocalypse if you wanna explore the more seedy, questionable side of the Yakuza.

What's a good name for a rag-tag band of independent Formori mercenaries desperately searching for a cure?

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>>53316026
Many thanks for uploading it but man the art in this is shit

>>53317007

The Chimeras

Can I get some art help? I'm looking for creatures with appendages that are long and thinish, kind of like spider legs without actually being spider monsters

>>53316004
It's definitely possible to remove supernal symbols on that scale, but you need to fuck reality significantly harder than it had to be fucked to put them in there to begin with, probably creating something worse than the abyss several times over.

The Exarchs are supernal symbols that provide structure to unfathomable scores of lesser symbols that are still absolutely integral to reality as we understand it, they run deep.

The most effective way to fight the ascension war, I'm fairly sure, is to simply dilute the Exarchs control gradually. I don't think there are any factions that would advocate that outright removing the exarchs is possible at this point. The destruction of the previous supernal ladder retroactively destroyed any of their connection to the mortal world that could have been leveraged to "pull them out" of the supernal, so to speak. If enough people who disagree with the Exarchs ascend and write themselves into the supernal, eventually the Exarch's grip on reality will cease to be relevant.

There is, after all, the theory that the fact that the oracles are in the supernal and can't be removed is the reason that dissent against the exarchs is even possible in the lower realities.

>>53316250
>>53316437
Yeah. Removing them is questionably possible, but would probably destroy all of reality in the process by removing shit like the nuclear strong force or the concept of language itself as collateral damage. The only way to contest the exarchs is to ascend and write yourself over reality as well, and change the world ever so slightly closer towards the utopia you believe it could be if not for the influence of the Exarchs.

>>53317234
Real animal or fantasy?

>>53317423
Fantasy preferred but anything works, I know I remember seeing something like what I'm thinking of but I can't remember where from. Also where in general do people go to get creepy drawings?

>>53316525
A later ascended mage probably doesn't have as much input as a single Exarch, but it wouldn't take a million mages working as one to render the share of influence they have over reality irrelevant. In our little white room scenario, two dozen mages who abruptly ascend specifically to try and make the world operate in a fair way and break the Seers utterly as an organisation could do it pretty easily.

Realistically speaking, EXTREMELY few mages ever ascend, and those that do are usually so atypical and so far removed from normal life by that point that they could hardly be trusted to work together or agree on how reality needs to change to "get it back to normal".

As it stands, it remains not only unknown, but arguably unknowable, precisely how the world even was before the Exarchs altered it, and furthermore, how much of those changes are to do with them (and thus are reversible) and how many are to do with the creation of the abyss during the fall (which is probably not reversible, for the most part anyway). Because their changes are sweeping and retroactive, no reliable records could ever be found that would even tell you whether or not people needed to breathe oxygen to survive before the fall happened, as an example. An ascending mage could totally recreate the world such that life on earth never evolved lungs because it wasn't necessary, you can just burn sugars by themselves, and survive in space if you have to. But whether this is actually contesting the Exarchs on some point that they actually chose to exercise their will upon, or whether you are just steering reality even further away from what it was before the Fall, you will never know. And odds are, there will be another ascendant you thought of as your friend up until now who is incredibly upset that noone has breath anymore and everyone uses rhythmic clapping to communicate or something.

>>53317616
You know if you weren't completely divorced from your humanity before ascension I can't believe you'll hold onto it for very long after ascending.

I wonder if the exarchs are actually that tyrannical or if they're so alien in mind set they simply don't see the issue with what they're doing.

>>53317867
You literally become a symbol when you ascend.
No way to hold on to "humanity".
You are all at once something infinitely more, and much less than a mortal.

There any rules for Romero (Night of The Living dead Original and Savini remake) zombies in V20?

Thinking of running a sidetrack for a future campaign where the players would have to go through the plot of the movie

>>53312317
Has there ever beena CofD update to the?

>>53317994
Nope.
I would kickstart a main-splat version of the Purified though.

Fucking awesome concept thrown in towards the back of a tertiary splatbook.

>>53315387
Sounds stupid. -_- Nobody needed alternative rules in V20! All it needed was more options - mass combat, some rules about maturation, domain control etc.

>>53318460
They do actually have domain control.

>>53318647
Just checked. Some rules, but it's very little. No mass combat, making war rules, but... piece armor? For real? At least those medieval-fanboys will get a hard-on.

Still no maturation - rules for campaigns that go through time. Meh.

>>53315774
Easiest explanation is that the aeon of prime shuts down anyone who tries to fuck around with them.

>>53315774
Removing Supernal Symbols is a five dot Omen, akin to the Celestial Ladder in Atlantean myths and legends.

It's not an easy feat.
The Oracles themselves might be on par with the Exarchs, but it's only a guess.

>>53318708
>At least those medieval-fanboys will get a hard-on.

My codpiece is indeed rather distended.

Any examples of possible Template builds capable of reliably 1v1ing a Master mage?

>>53319193
I hate you so much.

>>53318460
I think there were rules for mass combat and medieval warfare in Tome of Secrets.

>>53319193
>1v1
A nigh impossibility if we're talking street fights.
Masters are the cheesiest of cheeses. Like the finest Brie de Meaux you've ever savored if one pulls out the Exceptional Successes.

Ain't no way around it.
Certainly not in white-room scenarios.

>>53319193
That room is so white it's blinded me.

What exactly are ghosts if cold? I know they aren't the souls of the dead. But are they sapient? Is it as ethical to blast one apart as it is to help them pass on?

>>53319326
What's so white about it?

>>53319193
Archmage

>>53319262
Yeah, I forgot. So only maturation rules were needed.
Nobody asked for simplified combat rules.

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>>53319157
Well it is only right and fitting that the lady of the manor have the most distended codpiece of them all.
>#Tzimisce
>#SzantovichLife

what triggers magefags ?

>>53319446
Actually, a lot of people have because combat involves throwing giant fucking handfuls of dice four times per turn per combatant and that's if no one has celerity. So be a dear and shut the fuck up.

If I had a rank 2 war spirit as a familiar and it used it's influence to strengthen my fighting prowess would that mean I get +2 to all relevant dice pools for the duration?

>>53319455

An unsolved mystery!

>>53319465
Then go fuck yourself and play CofD.

>>53319342
>But are they sapient?
From what I can recall, in CofD ghosts are basically imprints. Depending on the state of their corpus they may be more lucid and responsive, but they're basically a photocopy formed from the flash of intense emotions. Something like that. However a Mage can restore faculty to them, make them appear to be and function as more human.

>Is it as ethical to blast one apart as it is to help them pass on?
It varies from situation to situation, but I would say how a Mage with Death treats ghosts in general is pretty indicative of character. I hate to quote Harry Potter, but one quote from it has stuck with me.

>"If you want to know the true measure of a man, don't look at how he treats his equals. Look at how he treats his inferiors."

>>53319515
Actually I'd rather have everything that makes oWoD the superior setting with improved crunch, thank you.

There's no justification for your autism. You get that right? "Mmmm... NO! We should keep this relic of 20 year old game design." That's what you sound like.

>>53319520
That's not from Harry Potter.

>>53319533
>oWoD the superior setting

Except it's not.

Go fuck yourself.

>>53319547
That's where I saw it. It's not the exact wording but that's what Sirius said to Ron about Mr. Crouch.

>>53319474
And a related question. If I'm in a fight that would create the appropriate resonate condition for my familiar to materialize and help me out correct?

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>>53319533
>oWoD
>superior setting

>>53319572
>>53319596
Don't worry. You might get a 20th anniversary edition in eight years.

>>53319609
I really don't understand how that's a comeback at all.

>>53319572
>>53319596
>CofD
>a setting
I rather have a setting than don't have any.

>>53319619
Dad's home.

Hope you guys found all the empty bottles.

>>53319678
It does have a setting, it just doesn't have a ridiculously bloated metaplot.

>>53319793
Nice delusions. It's like saying Savage Worlds has a setting.

>>53319835

Savage Worlds is an amalgam of settings, dumbass.

>>53319835
How is it not a setting?

>>53319678
Are mages still the strongest in old darkness?

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>>53319572
>>53319596
>the big three are just watered down versions of their oWoD versions
>glorified laptop is shoehorned in as the setting antagonist
>beast: the primordial

Entropy is the best Sphere

>>53319901
>papi
>owod
Shit taste desu

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>>53319935
>implying papi is my waifu just because i used a smug picture of her

>>53319193
>Any examples of possible Template builds capable of reliably 1v1ing a Master mage?

Aren't Mages supposed to be the strongest supernaturals, individually speaking?

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>>53319447

It's sad how little quality fanart VtM gets.

>>53320113
Because there are a lot of ways to do Tzimisce fanart wrong.

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>>53320249

Wasn't talking just about the Tzimisce, but yeah, too many people just go way overboard with edgy/disfigurement.

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>>53320272
that is fucking amazing.

Here's how you edge without edging too close to the edge.

Spooky, androgynous, alien and threatening without being gratuitous.

>>53320272
This pic just makes me further butthurt that the new look for the Ventrue apparently also involves perpetual nosebleeds and punk outfits.

>>53320396
It's shit, nuff said.

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>>53320396

Yeah, not a fan of the use of photography instead of artwork either.

>>53320453
Me neither in general, though there were actually one or two that I did like in V20. Haven't seen any worth a damn from the few bits we've seen of V5 yet.

So, thought experiment. Say the tremere didnt succeed in bringing the Salubri to ruin and were ultimately destroyed, as well as the Cappadocians surviving the coups of the Giovanni and surviving to the Modern Nights?

And for shits, no more Assamites. What do you think would happen?

>>53320512
>Salubri surviving
The question is, how would they looked? They were already in decline. They accepted their fate - destruction. After all that only one caste would truly survive - Salubri Warriors. Maybe they would become a part of the Camarilla as Sheriffs?

>Giovanni dead, Cappadocians survive
Cappadocius murdered a lot of them - imprisoned in a inescapable fortress. The rest were killed during the coup. Let's say not all of them, Augustus "succeeded" in the diablerie. The clan now is very weakened. They would need a rework, a new path to follow. Maybe they would become the Tremere of Camarilla? Fully embracing Necromancy and revising it to a better form of Blood Magic?

>No Ashmites
I doubt much would change in non-Middle Eastern territory. Their disappearance would create a power vacuum. I once created an alternative setting, when after the fall of Carthage, the Brujah go to Asia Minor and are the forefront of the Byzantine Empire -> Ottoman/Turkish Empire. Why not make Brujah middle-eastern Persian princes?

>>53309302

Hunters Hunted (Regular humans kicking ass and hunting down vampires that move in on their turf) seems to be a perfect fit... especially since Hunters Hunted actually goes into detail on how the Yakuza in WoD *do* actively try to kill vampires (and other evil "spirits", like Kuei-Jin) when they discover them.

>Hunters among the Yakuza are often called “kabukimono,” or “crazy ones,” an appellation that originates with ancient gangs of Yakuza who carried long swords, intimidated entire villages, and used unconventional and baffling strategies and innovations to confuse their enemies.

>Yakuza hunters are trained assassins, skilled in stealth, silent operation, and single-target eliminations. They work in pairs, with a mentor (oyabun) and a student (kobun), and the two agents give one another absolutely loyalty (and in the kobun’s case, unquestioning obedience). Some are agents of counterintelligence, using technology and hacking to track a vampire’s activity and plague them from afar. The best of these agents never have to get within a hundred miles of their target in order to trap them in an area that will soon be ignited with sunlight, or to bring them to the attention of local law enforcement - and ensure that the police have all the information (and every advantage) necessary to destroy the Yakuza’s target.

>>53320512
>Say the tremere didnt succeed in bringing the Salubri to ruin and were ultimately destroyed

V20 Dark Ages offers a "what if" scenario for this kind of thing, in the Apocrypha section.

Basically, if the Salubri Healers and Warriors joined forces with the Salubri Watchers (the Watchers would have to be convinced to lend aid to their fellow Salubri, which is no minor feat), they survive the Tremere's propaganda campaign and attempted genocide.

The Salubri, Tzimisce, Lasombra and Malkavians then join forces to form the Sabbat, joined by multitudes of Antitribu, while the other six clans still form the Camarilla.

In the modern ages, this more moderate and patient Sabbat would be the dominant vampiric faction in the world, with the Camarilla (and the Tremere, by default) being left with only a few holdouts in Europe and the American South.

The Salubri joining the Sabbat wholesale ensures that the Baali never get their claws in the faction; infernalism is purged out with the fire, faith and insight of Healers, Warriors and Watchers.

That said, the Salubri are changed in the process; they become far more ruthless and cold towards Humanity in general, though this still makes the Sabbat less of a pestilent parasite on Humanity, with no mass-embraces ever occuring, nor any attempts to create hell on earth in Sabbat-controlled cities.

If the Antedeluvians were to wake up in this world, they would not face a disorganized mess of vampiric factions and cults, but rather a unified and organised army of Cainites, licking their fangs eagerly as they await the coming of the Red Star.

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>"we mages are the master race!"
>lose war against faction composed mostly of bureaucrats and lab rats

>>53321504
It's not fair when said nerds and bureaucrats are mages

Would a custom spell which reduces paradox effects be reasonable? MtAw 2nd edition.

Somehow my players are terrified of releasing paradox and go to great lengths to prevent it. I feel custom spells to contain paradox reduce the risks even more and have no place.

>>53306623
>Do you people think new players should read the clanbooks and learn everything they can about the clan of their choice before play or do you think they should gradually learn things as they play?

Are we talking about Requiem or Masquerade Clan books?

>>53307161
>Yeah. It's called "Don't shit on your players choice of where they focus their skills, you Adversarial twat."

Anon is asking what positive condition the players might gain when they get a Exceptional success.

>>53322368
Of course not.

>>53322369
Requiem is dead and sealed off forever, no one has to play it anymore.

>>53321504
That poor girl having to adapt her Sephiroth wig from teen cosplay

>>53322368
You're darn tootin that spell is out of the question. They want to avoid Paradox? Either they they rip a chunk of their souls out and make a demense, or join a legacy. Or, you know, learn to keep their magic in their pants instead of whipping it out in front of sleepers.

>>53322390

Oops, my bad. Kinda pissy after dealing with a retro-D&D clone GM who was being adversarial. Fun game, though.

Also i'm not as up to date on 2E as i'd like.

>>53322368

Every workaround
a) has it's consequences and
b) is less than perfect.

Examples:
The Mage creates a device that "eats" paradox. The device ultimately becomes ridden with abyssal taint and decides to fuck him at the worst possible moment.

Blank Badges have the ability to spread paradox among themselves so none of them has to deal with the whole enchilada, but each of them has to take a bite of the paradox shit-sandwich.

A mage figures out a way to contain paradox by damaging her mental rather than physical health. This leads to outbursts of different kinds of insanity each time she uses this trick, and leaves her exhausted and low on willpower.

>>53322721

Step 1- Use Time to delay the incoming Paradox
Step 2- Get to an appropriate demense
Step 3- Cancel delaying spell

Of course, it should never be that easy.

>>53315547

So I have a proposal as to why echo walkers don't realign the soul. In 1e it was because it required Spirit 3 (and it was mentioned that some Walkers actually did go to the trouble of learning it for that purpose.)

I suggest that a Mage can better examine the unaligned soul (one time only) for an arcane beat, but only if they don't undo it.

Echo Walkers who do fix what they break are quickly outshone by their less scrupulous peers, which is the source of the "addiction."

>>53322397
>>53322721
>>53323203
>>53323283

Good advice, thanks! My players are way too scared of paradox, and somehow manage to almost always cast without paradox, even without a spell like this. Yet they still look for easy ways to circumvent Paradox.

>>53323691
Have you ever put them into situations where paradox is unavoidable?

>>53323819
I try to, but my players almost always will
stay within their free reach and reduce paradox to a chance die. Sometimes they suffer a small bit of damage but that is it.They are way to careful and either run away or prepare themselves carefully. I could introduce much more sleepers at their scenes.

>>53321504
You mean that faction that's also made of Mages that fragged an antediluvian?

>>53324147
>that fragged an antediluvian
With the most stupid method possible.

>>53319474
Sure.

>>53319594
Depends. It's a war spirit, so you'd have to be in a war.

>>53324335
>so you'd have to be in a war

I mean as opposed to like a street brawl or a boxing match

>>53322368
Sure. Make a spell that sends paradox 1 year later into the future.

Why exactly are Kuei'jin localized to Asia?

>>53324335
Would that include combat spell rolls? As for the resonant condition I was thinking for any life or death type situation the adamantine arrow likes getting itself into.

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What would pic related be in the CoD? I think he would be a God-Machine Angel who was Exiled for being supremely incompetent and destructive but too loyal to Fall. GIR would be either a minor Angel or a Cryptid. Dib and Gaz are Stigmatics, which is why they are the only ones who ever bother to investigate Zim. Professor Membrane is a rare example of a successful Genius (possibly the Stigmatic version rather than the Major Template one). Miss Bitters could be a Charlatan Gentry or some weird Spirit of Despair and Discipline that is Fettered to the Skool.

>>53324470
>Would that include combat spell rolls?

Might do ask your ST.

>As for the resonant condition I was thinking for any life or death type situation the adamantine arrow likes getting itself into.

Doesn't sound war-y enough to me. Unless it's a spirit of gorilla warfare, and as such wouldn't work when you're the aggressor or using formal tactics

>>53324470
>>53324493
Just make it a spirit of battle or combat, senpai
Then you can avoid triggering this dude's autism and have it apply to most shit you're gonna get involved in

>>53324625
>Battle
a sustained fight between large organized armed forces.

>Combat
fighting between armed forces.

Nice try, spirits are OP so need to be defined narrowly.

>>53324468
Something something soil.

Some Giovanni managed to make a part of California also kuei jin spawnable

Continuing on with the combat/battle/conflict familiar question. What can the 'Manipulate' influence do? Can my spirit buddy make enemies target the wrong people? Change environmental conditions to give me an edge?

>>53324847
Manipulate can make the target do something it would do anyway.

Control lets you make them do shit they wouldn't normally.

>>53324861
So it's like a compelling spell but for combat.

>>53324919
Essentially.

Manipulate - make a dog bark or eat a steak

Control - make a dog climb a ladder or drink gasoline

>>53324267
The sun? The weakness held by all vampires?

Why is Pastebin not working? And why is no one talking about it?

Mega link please t.t

>>53325065
They could have just as easily chucked him into the sun.

>>53325117
Because it works fine, its probably your ISP or country trying to censor the internet.

>>53325119
But that probably requires more than 3 dots in Forces, unlike the Sun.

>>53325146
Could you post oWoD mega for me?

>>53325279
>MEGA (mostly Old World of Darkness)
https://mega.nz/#F!KI00XCZA!sFV9L2S77bld5vzEmw5-vg
https://mega.nz/#F!YIgVwQKY!ykGezjo3qppcgHXzTKuBGQ

>>53325292
thanks!

>>53324147
Yeah, all by themselves.

Keep being delusional senpai.

>>53325065
>>53325259
Spirit nukes took more than 3 dots in forces and cause a host of other problems. Like the other anon said, should've just sent him to the sun

>>53325428
If the kuei jin didn't shroud the area in clouds they could've killed him much quicker. The rest were a hinderance

>>53325430
The nukes only dealt with the 3 Kuei-jin . It was ultimately merely sunlight that killed the beast.

>>53325471
Yeah, and the fight that last for like 4 days and 4 nights?

And entire wolf packs being there?

The Ante SURVIVED the spirit nukes also, the same nukes that killed a whole splat.

It was killed (more likely killstolen) with a final ray of concentrated sunlight by satellites, always after all the shit that happened.

>>53322562
>Requiem is dead and sealed off forever, no one has to play it anymore.

Some people are into necrophilia

>>53325557
>And entire wolf packs being there?
Lets not pretend they did anything but get stepped on by a being that might as well be a god to them.

Werewolf version
>We fought an unending battle for days against a foe we finally brought down
Vampire version
>Whoops the anti stepped on a caeren lol

>>53322601
I think that's just regular hair Anon.

>>53321504
That's a Tremere, not a NWO.

NWO doesn't have waifus.

>>53325557
You can't kill stral something when you did 90% of the damage. Nukes were so the union could deploy the weapon actually meant for the ante. Wolf packs didn't accomplish shit and might as well have not been in the fight. It wouldn't have taken 4 days and nights if the Union engaged first and beamed the thing into the sun in the first place. Even when written to be incompetent they still fucking carried

Has there been any word on what's going on with Changeling 2e besides Hill getting the can? It's been in the development phase in the meeting notes for like two months after I heard it was almost done.

>>53325927
Hill wasn't canned he quit.

>>53325927
Its been 'gutted' aka was being co-devloped by devs who weren't talking to each other because OPP is a mess. No way of telling how much is done, or what of the dev docs Hill put out will make it to the final product.

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>Get around to reading the Hurt Locker
>Being swole is now a style
Whelp time to turn my game into the WWE

>>53325975

Probably as little as possible. I get the feeling that Rose's Changeling 2e is more or less starting from zero, and it's only still in "development" to save face.

>>53326050
DID SOMEONE SAY UNDERGROUND SUPERNATURAL WRESTLING RING?

>>53326412
Given comments from Hill about her liking the Pledge section that even Hill wasn't a huge fan of makes me think she'll gut everything good Hill did and leave the worst parts.

>>53326412
>>53326493
I'm personally expecting a Beast tier bad 'rewrite'.

>>53326493
RIP lost 2e. At least we'll have 1e to remember fondly

Wait, Hill was fired?

Was this when they got rid of Holden from Exalted for stealing people's money and refusing to write anything?

Is Big Daddy Paradox finally stepping in?

>>53326560
No, Hill quit when nu-WW hired Zak Smith

>>53326412
>>53326493
Man, I didn't have any hope for Lost to begin with, so I don't care who's in charge. The whole Huntsman thing was stupid. They changed up Kith and Seeming to ostensibly make for more options and somehow made it more restrictive. Absolutely ruined the Fairest. The new Court system was dumb.

It was going to be DOA with Hill or with Rose.

>>53326576
The seeming and kith powers were all a welcome change, as was having actual rules for how courts protected you and rules for making them.
Some of the other changes like seeming and huntsmen I agree with you on, they just seemed like too far of a departure from the previous game to me, but with Hill on it I could at least port things over to 1e fluff and leave the rules where they mattered, sure it might take some effort, but whatever.
Now?
I have 0 faith in even that being a useful part of the book.

>>53326452
So would Vince McMahon be a Ventrue prince?

>>53325557
Wolves didn't do shit. They didn't even get included in the post event "What Happened?" rundown. They were that insignificant. There wasn't even fighting for 4 straight days; fighting began on night 3, the first 2 nights included the Ante awakening, the results of the ante awakening, and the Kuei-Jin readying for battle. The End of night 4 marked the Technocracy lasering the ante to death.

>>53326572
I didn't agree with DavidH on a lot of shit but I rather he be given absolute control over everything than having ZakS even remotely affiliated with the IP.

Fucking dracula.

Long story short my players are summoning Batman from the temenos. How would I stat him?

>>53326699
Given that I've seen anything I like out of Hill I'm inclined to agree.
ZakS' writing is just bad.

>>53326731
>You Lose

>>53326731
Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 5d10+25 (52 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+14
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+5) and bite +4 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8
Feats: Alertness, Track
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 6-8 HD (Large); 9-15 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

>>53326572

Little bit before that actually. An earlier round of Zak and/or Zak fan harassment had him decide to quit games in late 2015, but he stayed on to complete promised or in-progress contracts with OPP, planning to leave the industry when those were done.

THEN the We Eat Blood reveal happened and Hill started mulling over whether to just drop all contacts entirely, which he eventually did. OPP is super slow, so It's probably safe to say that he was probably still contracted for quite a few things, especially Lost 2e.

What appears to have happened, based soley on my own speculations from reading social media posts and talking out of my ass, is that Rich probably saw Hill's hard departure coming as soon as the announcement occurred. Ericsson and Smith are close and Ericsson can almost certainly pull out the IP at any time. Despite Rich saying that they were going to talk about the situation, he probably had no real bargaining power. The best outcome was WW saying "We'll make Zak promise that he will not do that thing that we said he didn't do."

So, Rich gets Rose to secretly start developing an alternative Lost 2e well before Hill's decision. Once he drops, that version goes public and in full development. Hill was already talking about dropping 2e before he actually did, so it's just a matter of declaring he dropped early despite clearly acting as developer for a little while longer and voila, you're in the legal clear. Cut Hill a kill fee and move on, even though Hill claims that the book is done and he should get the full dev fee.

Hill was probably not brought into the loop about this for some bizarre reason and finds that he's been dropped way earlier AND he has no idea if his work is even going to be in the book AND he's not getting his dev fee.

So, to prevent any possible legal repercussions, Lost 2e will use as little of his material as possible, and might as well be starting again as a new book.

But again, who knows what really happened.

>>53326731
That depends. What kind of Batman do you want? I once wrote him up as a Hunter, but that is a different template from a Materialized Goetia. See the link below for said Hunter sheet:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/349384-think-of-fictional-characters-and-say-what-they-would-be-in-cofd?p=920967#post920967

>>53326947
Basically they're trying to change the local resonance in the bad part of town in order to access a part of the shadow they can't get to currently.

The way they decided to do this is to summon batman and have him terrorize criminals for a couple weeks.

This is an idea so stupid it can only happen in a mage game and I love them all for it.

>>53327023
OK, so, assuming they have enough dots in Spirit or Death to actually Manifestations to Goetia!Batman, you might end up with something like this. I will be using some house rules to calculated derived traits, but feel free to use the normal ones. I will also include homebrewed Numina. I went over the recommended limits for the number of Influences/Numina, but fuck it, he's the Goddamn Batman.

Rank: 4
Attributes: Power 12, Finesse 10, Resistance 12
Willpower: 10
Maximum Essence/Per Turn: 40/12
Initiative: 11
Defense: 7
Speed: 26
Size: 5
Corpus: 17
Armor: 4/4
Manifestations: Whatever you want, but he needs Twilight Form and Materialize (Image, Reaching, Gauntlet Breach and Discorporate are also really useful)
Influences: Fear 3, Justice 3, Darkness 3, Investigations 3
Numina: Armored, Camouflage, Emotional Aura, Essence Thief, Hallucination, Omen Trance, Phantom Arsenal, Seek, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Terrify

Ban: Must not kill
Bane: ???

[cont]

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>>53327308
Bane: Bane

>>53327308
Bitchin' thank you so much. As I understand it for the duration 'Batman' is out of the astral that aspect of pop culture changes right?

>>53327308
Armored: A spirit with this Numen is hard to injure, and is often manifest impressively armored forms. The Spirit spends 1 Essence point to gain Armor equalto its rank until the end of scene. This armor does not apply against the Spirits Bane.

Camouflage: This might appear as an octopus’s skin that can change texture and color, or may be more mystical in nature. The spirit spends a point of Essence and remains still. As long as the spirit does not move, the camouflage remains active — up to a scene. This Numen can be used along with Hibernate to disguise the spirit while sleeping. Anyone trying to perceive the spirit suffers a negative modifier equal to the spirit’s Finesse.

Phantom Arsenal: The entity spends 1 Essence point to manifest blades, claws, fangs, hooks or other appropriate weaponry. The modification acts as a +1L weapon. By spending an additional point of essence, this weapon gains the “9-Again” quality. Entities with the Telekinesis Numen can apply their Phantom Arsenal benefits when directly assaulting with psychic force.

Teleportation: When the entity moves, it may reflexively spend 1 Essence to vanish and reappear at another location within its line of sight up to its (Rank x Speed) in yards away. Doing so adds +2 to its Defense for the turn. If the entity has the Seek Numen, it may teleport to the nearest location with a suitable Condition by spending 3 Essence. The entity can spend an additional 2 points of Essence to take a passenger with them (an unwilling passage may resist with a roll of Resolve + Composure + Supernatural Tolerance).

Terrify: The entity has the power to strike terror in the hearts of mortals who witness its manifestation. All mortals who lay eyes upon it must roll Resolve + Composure, penalized by the ephemeral being's Rank. On a failure, they suffer the Frightened Condition towards the entity for the scene. A dramatic failure also inflicts the Fugue Condition.

>>53327340
Inside the universe of the CoD that you are playing, I assume the Batman comics and such will still exist, but no one will recognize them. People working on Batman media will suddenly find themselves confused and scared, which might be a bigger problem than you think. Also, check >>53327374 for descriptions of the homebrewed Numina. They were taken from the following threads:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/993181-twilight-menagerie

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/824054-2e-conversion-numina

>>53327433
I'm not doing it my PCs are. It's hubris but it's glorious.

>>53327455
Agreed. Also, if you couldn't tell.the Phantom Arsenal + Telekinesis Numina are there to be used simultaneously to represent his Bat-Gadgets, like the Grappling Hook and Batarangs. If you want, add Influences (Gadgets 3) so he can modify hs Phantom Arsenal at will.

>>53303192
Has anybody played Prelude?

What the fuck were the children on the plane?
What the fuck was the monkey in the sewer?
What the fuck were you made a part of in New York?

>>53325975
>>53326412
>>53326493
>>53326576
>>53326619
Are the prospects for CtL 2e really that grim? I don't really know much of anything about the devs, and what I know about the new mechanics is limited. I liked the changes to Kiths and Seemings, because of the far greater diversity in character creation, because 1e kiths really amounted to nothing mechanically, and only served to add aesthetic flavor, and because I like the idea of Seemings being about taking your destiny into your own hands rather than being about the manner in which you were abused. I personally thought the Huntsmen idea was pretty interesting; it gives your character a much more personal and active nemesis, especially compared to the Gentry, who, in my experience, couldn't really be worthwhile opponents in a campaign because their power was just too insurmountable. The only way to really "beat" them was to outsmart them, and unfortunately, especially for a narrative-driven game like WoD/CofD, not everyone is actually clever enough irl to actually pull that off without the ST sandbagging for them.

Let me just ask this for those who know about all this: would you say that CtL 2e looks like it might be so bad that C20 would actually be a better Changeling game to run over it? Because the amount of CtD hate was insane, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about C20, surprisingly enough.

>>53327754

Dreaming and Lost are two totally different games based around the same fantasy creature concept. You don't really run one over the other because they're only barely alike.

>>53327811
Well yeah, I'm aware that the two have almost nothing in common. What I mean to ask is if the 2e is so bad that it would make people - who otherwise would never give CtD the time of day - be willing to give C20 a try instead, regardless of how thematically different it is, just to play SOMETHING fairytale-related that would actually be good or enjoyable to them.

>>53327967
More likely people would just play CtL 1.0 with some houserules

>>53328042
This, probably. I might incorporate the idea of totally freeform kith/seeming.

>>53327967

They're so completely different that people will probably just use a fan GMC update in the OPP fan forums instead. There's very little that someone who is soley a Lost fan would find satisfying in Dreaming and vice versa. C20 is popular because it has actually playable rules and eases back on its tweeness just enough so that what remains of it is palatable instead of eye-rolling.

>>53327581
I'm considering having them summon like edgy hardcore Adam West Batman. Partly because I want to lessen the fallout of everyone forgetting Batman and partly because I want to fuck with them.

>>53319972
>Aren't Mages supposed to be the strongest supernaturals, individually speaking?
And why would this be the case, exactly?

The gamelines are relatively equal to one another.
Crossover is often overblown.

>>53325500
*sunlight magnified 4 times.

When the clouds got dispersed he still managed to drag himself forward, armless and charred.

At what point does it become okay to tell people they can't observe on your game? There's been this college student whose been watching our games and its starting to make us feel uncomfortable. We play at a game store in a gaming area that's semi-public, but we pay for our time there. I said as long as she doesn't become a distraction and agrees not to record anything with everyone (including the store owner's) permission, it'd be fine. But, over the past session or so the vibe among the group has become awkward, they whisper across the table to eachother and to me to try and keep her from hearing them, and no one really wants to inhabit their character (which is fine, but they were doing it before with no issues). I just think she's making them self-conscious and I feel like whatever it is she's trying to study (she's been cagey about explaining exactly what that is) she should have enough observations for.

Do I brooch the subject during a session or try and speak to her separately? How do I do it without coming off as confrontational?

>>53328183
She finds one of the players hot. Ask if she wants to make a character and join (if that won't get in the way of anything), if not then tell her one on one that the group isn't comfortable with her presence. Don't humiliate her by doing it in front of everybody

>>53328109
Sounds awesome. Do it.

>>53328042
>>53328069
>>53328083
That seems really disappointing, though, doesn't it? "This new edition sucks so bad that I'm just gonna pretend it doesn't exist, and keep playing the old edition with houserules." Then again, that is basically how Pathfinder came to exist.... It'd certainly be a big setback for OPP, but I can't bring myself to sympathize with them much, considering how disorganized they seem to be.

>>53325773
>beamed the thing into the sun in the first place
He's got Chimersty 10, which allows you to trap someone into an alternate reality of your choice.

There's nothing stopping him from fooling the nerds (which is what Gehenna gives a possible option of)

>>53328299
Yeah, except the Ravnos Antediluvian was canonically killed, with the alternate reality entire optional.

>>53328318
Yeah, that's why I said possible option.

File: Correspondence 6.png (118KB, 379x235px) Image search: [Google]

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All it takes is three successes to kill an Antediluvian using Correspondence 6

:^)

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>>53328109
You should do something like this.

>>53328281

Not really. 1e was lightning in a bottle that many people felt highly of, mechanical warts and all. 1e was going to be a tough act to follow, no matter who was at the reins. 2e, in that sense, was always going to be doomed to live in its shadow. That it's ended up in Development Hell almost feels inevitable. Even Hill wasn't satisfied with some of the material he helped develop for his version.

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>>53328347

File: Spider Memories.jpg (246KB, 808x886px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53328366

>>53328299
>There's nothing stopping him from fooling the nerds

But he WAS stopped. So apparently Chimersty 10 wasn't enough to save himself.

>>53328347
>lightspeed
Ok, that's ludicrously overpowered.

>>53328383
I know he was canonically stopped, I'm just giving you a possible option of how the battle could've turnt out

>>53328281
>That seems really disappointing, though, doesn't it?
Not particularly to me, it seems par the course for OPP. CtL was perfectly fine as a system and I'd rather have a system me and my players are familiar with,with the flaws addressed by myself if need be, than an ugly attempt to marry the potentially incompatible ideas of multiple developers. I'm hoping for CtL 2 to be good, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

>>53328299
>chimersty 10 antediluvian
>gets ready to alternate reality
>prime 6 archmage shows up
>no more disciplines for ravnos

lol

>>53328437
>prime 6 cucc shows up
>gets alternate realitie'd
>thinks he fucked up the ravnos
>goes home and preps the bull in the alternate reality
kek

>>53328475
I don't even understand what you said.

>>53328489
It's not for mage brainlets :^)

hypothetically if you shaved somebody's eyebrow off and then embraced them would they be stuck looking like that

>>53324468
>Why exactly are Kuei'jin localized to Asia?

Because White Wolf wanted to make super-sterotypical "SUPAH KUNG FU ASIAN VAMPIRES", and you can't have that unless the ones who do it are asian. The End.

Basically, asians get special perks for being asian in WoD, and get to scoff at all the "uncultured kin-jin and arrogant westerners".

They aren't even restricted to Asia; as KotE Companion points out, there are Kuei-Jin that are popping up in the Chinatown districts and the Little Indias around the world. So it's not even something limited to the geography in Asia, because I would personally have been able to stomach a bullshit excuse of "erm, something something dragon lines and ley lines in the east that make the ground do weird stuff to spirits, and so that's why Kuei-Jin only exist there" or some shit... But no, it's just something that happens to *asian* people, and ONLY asian people.

Not just people brought up in asian culture, not just people living in Asia, just the Asian race(s).

And of course, the book never shuts up about how the Kuei-Jin are oh-so-humble and powerful and graceful masters of the arts, while the silly westerners need to be taught some discipline, how they are all evil at their core, how they have always raped and pillaged the eastern lands when given the chance and that they will inevitably do so again, blablabla.

It's racist as fuck, to both asians and everyone else, and it's a pity, because there's some good nuggets hidden under all the pretentious weeaboo shittery.

>>53328575
Yes.

>>53328575
Blush of Life should grow their brows back temporarily, but otherwise they would be a browless wonder forever, yes

>>53328575
....why?

>>53328575
Yes.

>>53328575
Yep.

Look up Jaggedy Andy for a real fucked-up use of that part of the embrace

File: exblain.jpg (95KB, 741x323px) Image search: [Google]

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Well magefags?

>>53328586
>It's racist as fuck, to both asians and everyone else, and it's a pity, because there's some good nuggets hidden under all the pretentious weeaboo shittery.

Yeah, I like hopping vampires and other kinds of Asian undead tropes. Those bits are actually cool. It's just too bad it's surrounded by...well, you already pointed it out.

>>53328659

>>53328375
>>53328424
In that sense, it feels a lot like 2e would actually be more successful or more popular if they just made it to be an almost-exact copy of 1e, but with the mechanics updated to 2e rules. I mean, at the end of the day, when a game is already as good as it can be, that's all I really care about, as far as new editions go. I mean, does OPP REALLY have to change everything up like that? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? I'm also not at all keen on how dull and generic the new tentative splat titles are, like "The Hedge". I loved how colorful the 1e titles were.

>>53328575
>hypothetically if you shaved somebody's eyebrow off and then embraced them would they be stuck looking like that

Yeah, though the Embrace (more often than not) also sometimes ends up "beautifying" the newly embraced vampire, unless they're a Nosferatu of course.

Zits and blackheads disappear, some minor scars or old burns might fade away to nothing if they're not something that cover half your face, crooked teeth might end up straghtening slightly, and so on.

It's not something that actually increases their Appearance stat; at their core, they're still the same person as before, but their bodies get "cleaned up" as much as possible.

So, a person with no eyebrows getting embraced would probably never get eyebrows again (unless they're a Gangrel and they start getting furry, or if they hire a Fleshcrafter to give them a new look), but that wouldn't relaly mean much in the long run.

>>53328639
Yeah, and then the later passage makes mention of the Archspheres overblowing them at later levels.

Not sure what you were hoping to achieve here, buddy boy.

>>53328475
Nope. It's too late. The Prime 6 "no more Disciplines" already took Chimersty away.

:^)

>>53328689

Except a lot of 1e's mechanics are very fiddly and strange, and would not translate as well to 2e's framework. There's also the fact that no, the game was not as good as it could be, and did need a second edition, if only to clean it up.

Instead of people criticizing the changes, it would be criticized for not doing enough and being the same price as the other cores if it was just that. 2e was always going to have an uphill struggle, no matter what.

>>53328827
And a sentence later it says similar powers can defend or subvert the mage's Effect

>>53328897
>"story considerations"

Yeah, that means nothing to common logic, as was explicitly mentioned.

>>53328897
You're right, but it's only appropriate depending on the power(s) in question. The specific supernatural better hope to have contesting capabilities in accordance to the mage.

it's all right there in pg. 66

>>53328912
>I only like to quote the stuff that makes my point while ignoring everything else.