/TG/ Should Tax policies be important when you play? And If

>>53263355
No. There is no story on the planet that would be improved by the inclusion of fictional tax policies. Nobody wants to read that shit except autists.

Tax policy can be important on occasion. What is more important is currency itself. How money moves, different nation's currency, where money is centered around, banks, institutions, and more. Money is important to every setting.

>>53263355
Finishing your novels is also very important.

But fuck that shit, Imma go to Wendy and eat 6 Baconators.

>>53263399
Ok, I'm going to respectfully disagree here.

We're talking about playing games that simulate fighting with swords, magic, healing wounds, buying stuff, hacking computers, winning verbal arguments, almost everything really. Why not taxes.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm totally with you if we start with "my players don't care about taxes, how do I force them to?", but we can probably come up with something.

What about a shadowrun game where your crew has to deal with the local corp raising the tax rates in the slums to the point where everyone is going to be evicted so that the corp can put up another hot lab. The runners need the contacts and the cheap housing, and they can't just shoot their way out of this one. How far into the corporate world do they have to go to fake or convince the right people that it just isn't worth it?

Or D&D, the local adventuring guild mandates that 10% of all treasure acquired goes to the guild, no exceptions. Anyone who disobeys will find themselves outside of the graces of the king and the town guards in the region. Will your party take jobs hunting down rouge adventuring parties? Will they join the resistance? Or will they find a way to make sure that they get a cut of all the money flowing into the guild?

How about traveler? A region's capitol planet is taxing the smaller local colonies at a rate where open war isn't imminent, but the black market, piracy, and small skirmishes abound. How does your party want to join the dispute? Push for open war? Become pirates? Join the Navy and police the space lanes?

*Anything* can make a good concept, it's all in how you sell it.

>>53263355
Yes, a high tax would give the corresponding army more funds to spend on troops, but it would also incite more rebellions.

You could implement extra points/gear to represent the government wealth but also make a roll chance that a lowly cannon fodder unit can mutiny during battle.

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>>53263355
If your tax policies take more than one or two sentences to summarize, you've already lost me. I'm here at the game table to go on adventures and explore dungeons, go write a fucking book if you wank off over the fact that you took a freshman economics course.

>>53263355
it's based on your occupation, and filed with your country of citizenship. you can apply for a special visa for a field agent to meet you at a foreign embassy, but you have to prove a certain level of income before applying. otherwise, you have to make the pilgrimage home annually to pay your taxes.

>>53263539
I'd argue that money is only relevant so long as trade is relevant.

>>53263355
Yes, every time I read LOTR I wonder about Aragorn's tax policy. I also wonder about how the baby orcs would have been treated. Would they have been slaughtered, or would there be an attempt to reform them?

>>53263770
I'd argue that you Mom sucks a mean dick in the morning.

>>53263794
you don't consider a post-scarcity society might have something beyond currency?

>>53263616
Those are pretty good plot/story hooks. But they don't really deal with tax policies as other than a story telling device, which is fine.

But I think what OP is implying is that actual tax policy should play some fundamental point in a game. Actual tax policy is kind of irrelevant to the game. If a region has a 10% sales tax, then it is no different that just saying a sword cost 11gp instead of 10gp, in terms of effects on the players. Just because actual adventures would be concerned about estate taxes and the like, that level of bullshit does not add anything of value to a campaign or session.

>>53263827
Do you know what Aragorn's tax policy was my friend?

>>53263355
>Should Tax policies be important when you play?
No. Not even if your playing a modern or futuristic setting specifically based around political intrigue are the specifics of the tax policies interesting to anyone.

And in a medieval setting it's downright bizarre to have a complex tax policy. In medieval Europe, if the king decided he wanted to tax a region, he would announce the amount of gold he sought, then bandits would bid against each other for the right to collect the taxes -- the lowest bidder winning as what they bid was the amount of time they would need to collect the gold -- and their payment consisted of whatever extra gold they managed to steal from the people during that time.

>>53263355
Depends on the game. They can be completely absent in casual games, generally in the background with occasional plot hooks like a typical D&D game, or completely central like in certain Exalted games. On average I tend to run games that fall toward the middle of that range unless the players make it important to their characters by taking economically focused skills or traits or do things where it would naturally come up a lot such as establishing or assuming the lead of a government or business.

I normally assess taxes and tariffs quietly, vaguely, and in the background, often going so far as to assume that appropriate fees will be deducted by the characters automatically when accounting their treasure or whatever. If they make a point of saying they cheat on their taxes or hide unreported income I make a note of it and it may come up and I might use taxation (and the agents thereof) to establish something like having to undergo a thorough inspection and pay harsh tariffs when entering a new city to establish that it is strict or unfriendly or giving them an opportunity top pay off inspectors to illustrate corruption, but actual policy is something that rarely comes up in my games outside of Robin Hood or extreme inflation scenarios unless the players make it their business

>>53264068
That's vastly incorrect for much of the Medieval period in much of Europe, as far as I know. While taxes were levied by force, it was usually by men in the local lord's employ, not a strange bandit auction. And goods weren't typically stolen, they were solicited by threat of force.

>>53264194
>And goods weren't typically stolen, they were solicited by threat of force
That is how you steal, anon.

>>53264207
No, it's robbery.

>>53264334
That's just a specific form of stealing.

>>53263913
no, but Tolkien was a linguist, not an economist, so it's probably either horseshit or perfect.

>>53263355
You do realize his comment was not intended to literally be autistic about tax policy in the Kingdom of Gondor and was more to point out how a lot of the background stuff in Lord of the Rings was just left to the background so we could enjoy a nice simple story of good and evil, right?

Don't get me wrong, this guy is not nearly as good at writing compelling stories as he thinks he is. But just like Tolkien was upset with the idea of people trying to force allegory into his work, let's not do the opposite and pretend that Martin's comment was a face-value thing.

We don't need to understand the taxes of Aragorn's Kingdom to enjoy the story revolving around it because of the perspective the story is trying to give us, whereas Martin is so reliant on internal politics and scheming to drive his plots that the taxes of the Seven Kingdoms are actually somewhat important.

>>53263355
What's his problem /tg/?

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>>53263355
Very important.

Because as we all know there are a lot of great movies that had "regulation of taxation of trade routes" as a premise.

>>53264831
To be honest, i think all fantasy should be about same themes. It's less confusing that way.

>>53263355
Might matter in the niche sort of game where the players have become major property holders, or in a game that centers around political intrigue. Otherwise anything about taxes is either flavor text or a plot hook that could have been achieved another way.

>>53264434
Stealing is specifically taking something without right to it. Rights only exist with a social framework, so within a social framework in which a sovereign or state has the right to levy taxes the collection of taxes cannot be considered theft.

>>53265595
>What's his problem /tg/?

He ditched his plan for his novels after A Storm of Swords and has written himself into a corner that takes him longer and longer to write his way out of each time because he no longer has a coherent outline for where his fiction needs to go and he has to spend time and pages servicing all the things he's added that weren't part of the original plan.

>>53263355
Yes. All the NPC sellers charge GST and PCs have to keep receipts and file tax claims for business expenses.

>>53264831
Yeah, no. You want to read about tax policy, go read the Domesday Book.

>was more to point out how a lot of the background stuff in Lord of the Rings was just left to the background so we could enjoy a nice simple story of good and evil
That's not at all what GRRM said, though. You should probably check out the quote again as he makes it explicitly clear that he enjoys LotR *except* for the fact that Tolkien left such details to the background and made the story a simple tale about good vs evil.

>>53263355
I genuinely ended up doing this as a GM, mostly by accident, when the PCs suddenly changed their minds from 1700s pirate campaign to merchant campaign.

It's a terrible idea. But I don't know how else to run the game so they get the opportunity to not pay taxes and get in trouble with the crown, cause they also wanted to track how much money they had, exactly.

Honestly dunno how i should've tackled that one

>>53263355
Nobles have checks set up on roads they maintain and protect.
Serfs pay one tenth of their average income to the lord.
The local lord also owns the marketplace and every merchant has to pay a fee to rent a space.
Trading outside the market is only allowed in shops that pay a smaller fee to the local lord.

That's about it.
Normal citizens didn't start to pay taxes until very recently.

>>53263355
Occasionally you need to pay up hefty taxes to get rid of some of the hugeass treasure you just found. That's the only time these things come up in my game.

>>53263355
Is it evil to force the peasant to pay taxes

>>53263355
Yeah

>>53263355
I do design the taxes rate of each place in the background. But I do not mention it unless the PCs attempt to derail the campaign into becoming merchants. If they want to own a store or something,

As with everything.
If it provides an interesting narrative hook, yes.
Otherwise no.
Usually it's "no" in this case.

>>53267144
This, a lot of details like that are good when worldbuilding, but most of the stuff like that is for the GM and not for the players.

A lot of games would go smoother if the GM would just realize that any worldbuilding he does is for himself (or another GM running his setting) to use as reference.

>>53263355
Naheulbeuk has a tax on dungeon plundering and its fucking stupid

>>53267186
You have a duty to your liege

>>53263355
Martin is a bad writer, A Song of Fire And Ice is a bad series that has been dragged out for way too long.

>>53267771
Sounds like a plot-hook to overthrow the unjust nobility

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>>53263865
>Actual tax policy is kind of irrelevant to the game
Of course, that very much depends on what game you're playing. If you're using a fairly abstract economic system, say, CofD/nWoD, then sure, that granularity might not actually matter (since it would be poorly represented mechanically regardless of how the story goes). Conversely, if you're playing Traveller, for instance, which eschews character improvement for economic improvement, then yes, counting pennies is integral to the system and setting, and thus tax policies are extremely important.

Even in D&D you could have a player be granted/conquer a fief, in which he may be obligated to pay a tax to a liege lord. Now maybe he doesn't want to deal with that, but certainly tax policies could be a plot hook for peasant unrest or even rebellion.

>>53267831
Everyone pays taxes. It is a duty

>>53263355
>>53263355
It depends on the game. Personally, I would love to play a swords ,sandals and sorcery game where my party was thrown into intrigue one time due to a group of civilised men using us to help evade or Ake advantage of tax policies. There's plenty of ways to involve it but it depends entirely on what your players enjoy.

A good old fashion toll booth while escorting a merchant or someone looking to fence an artifact is always a good plot hook. Pay the fee and now you got a quest to recoup losses before the loan sharks the client that hired you comes to collect and his friends means business as in they will skullfuck you type of business. Or take the long route and come under attack by a party of well prepared bandits who have spent years preying on people who takes the long way around.

Taxes and tariffs and always great hooks for greed based plots

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>>53263355
Since when were LotR fans so butthurt by GRRM's comment that they feel the need to spam about it on /tv/ and /tg/ all the time now?

What happened exactly? Is it one mad LotR fan who only just now discovered the tax policy quip?

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>>53268039
Even the king?

>>53268039
They used to say Death was inevitable too

till we killed him

>>53268379
He pays it to his people in blood.

Metaphorically; the king and his family fight and die to protect the kingdom

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>>53268412
Oy, I've never seen no king fight to protect me.

>>53268434
Good, that means it's working.

So /tg/, this a small reminder to you about how taxes worked in places before income taxes and voluntary compliance.

The tax man would show up to your home, unannounced, often with a pair of thugs at his sides. Those thugs aren't there to force you to pay, they're there so you can't kill the taxman. But they're ultimately still thugs, and might get a little rough with you if you step out of line.

When he shows up, he appraises everything you own and then gives you a bill for what you owe the lord. Part of why he had to show up unannounced was that you can't hide shit from him. Then he tells you how much you owe. Maybe payment will be demanded immediately, maybe payment will be due in a short period of time, but either way the tax collector has told you how much you owe the lord. And if you don't have that much, it falls on you to sell your shit in order to make payments.

Tax collectors are easy villains in these old settings because of how the practice worked. Low oversight, dangerous job, and lots of money changing hands. It wouldn't be unreasonable for a tax collector to set high prices in order to make sure he could skim some off the top without getting noticed.

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>>53268452
Oy, this guy says the king doesn't pay his taxes!

>>53268543
Tell me, do you poop?

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>>53268553
I've pooped most of my life. Are you telling me the king doesn't poop either. Is that why he doesn't have to pay taxes?

>>53268625
Has the king seen you do it?

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>>53263355

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>>53268678
The king watches people poop?

>>53268780
He sees all

>>53263770
Money is irrelevant.
Money is as a trade tool that is a sign that the central economy is capable of projecting enough power.
You don't hoard money. You hoard rare metals(coins, sculptures, bars) or you hoard things that is more valuable per gold: THE TOP TRADE COMMODITY, i.e Silk, oils, Myra,

>>53266570
Also this. Taxes is a postmodern thing for common people.

>>53265811
This can't be a genuine opinion, but at the same time it doesn't really work either as a joke or as provocation. his leaves me somewhat confused.

>>53269011
>Also this. Taxes is a postmodern thing for common people.
No they aren't anon. Obviously systems of taxation have changed over the course of millennia, but most organized, relatively centralized nations in the history of the world have had some kind of an official tax policy. Like, the Old Kingom of Egypt had a system of taxation with speciic, well-defined obligations for the common folk.

>>53269040
Just plain old trolling.

>>53268493
This.

Unsurprisingly, the taxman (fut or fogd) is a stock character in Norwegian folk stories, where he's almost uniformly depicted as brutal, unfair and at times corrupt. Especially because he represented the Danish or Swedish king for a long time. He's often likened to the wolf.

They also had some legal authority, making them even more powerful. Add in stuff like the hated Shoe Tax of 1711, where you were taxed by the number of shoes in your household, and you get why they were often hated by common folk.

Also unsurprisingly, taxmen were fairly regularly killed, especially in the early days of a union. Not to mention multiple tax revolts.

Taxes can have a place in a campaign. Not any campaign, but it's not out of place in something historical or political.

>>53269414
You nordics are sure savages

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>>53263355
Taxes? Sure, I'll have them in my game, via HIGH LIVING, with it being presumed that some of the money spent is on taxes. D&D 5e has a similar "expenses" system.

Tax policies? The only time this will come up in my games is if I intend to start a Robin Hood sidequest.

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>>53269590
It's one thing to tax a man's home and produce, but when you go after his shoes you've gone too far.

Have an illustration from a folk tale, in which the taxman is being abducted by the Devil. The Devil notably doesn't wear shoes, presumably for tax reasons.

>>53269715
This is one of the worst rules I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

>>53263913
Do you?

>>53269798
T. Libertarian

>>53263355
They could.

It was kinda hard to tax something directly and effectively before technology reached a point where a government could discern what was happening on its territory. For example, Spain taxed mercury to target silver and gold, for one needed the first to produce the latter.

Idiosyncratic taxes based on things like number of windows or good teeth, escaping collectors, smuggling silkworms or corpses, acepting quests to find alternative sources of something controled by the king, escorting tax chests, all these might provide amusement and quests while being based upon tax policy.

Try putting a low level group buying a tax chart and attempting to farm cunning peasants that can't be killed and please a lord whose favors are essential.

>>53268234
Since GRRM has shit for background, tax policies especially. Dude can't even decide whether royally funded roads are a thing or not on his main supercontinent.

>>53263399
I disagree because I am running a game has tax evasion by a duke as the kick off reason for events in a campaign.

In D&D magic items cost a lot of money to make. So how valued is a high volume mine of highest grade enchanting reagents? The answer that I am going with is large share of major country's GDP sized. Something that profitable is clearly going to be taxed heavily. The duke in question came to the idea of not paying said tax. The cover up of the operations of the mine would be a net saving verses paying up.

>>53271667
Kings road

>>53273800
yea. Robert spent fat stacks on it and never got anything more than a dirt path.

>>53263355
>Should Tax policies be important when you play?

No.

They CAN be important, if the players look like they actually give a shit about them. But a DM should never push a potentially boring issue onto the players if they're not on board with it.

Half the point of being an adventurer is that nobody knows just how much money you have in order to tax it, and nobody knows for sure where you were born or to whom you owe taxes.

The other half is that anybody who'd be inclined to tax you anyway is also probably a little bit scared that all the other adrenaline-fueled psychos who crawl into holes full of monsters to steal their shit instead of farming for a living may not like the precedent being set.

Literally the whole point of being an adventurer is that rules only kind of apply to you.

>>53276845
You don't owe taxes to the place you were born at, you owe taxes to the place where you live and work.

Also, successful adventurers don't carry all their riches with them.

>>53276912
So how would one go about taxing a pocket dimension?

>>53277119
Not all settings have pocket dimensions.

In fact, I've never player a game in my life that had pocket dimensions as something mundane that an adventurer could obtain and use for storing shit.

>>53277211
So you've never played D&D? Portable holes are kinda standard at mid levels.

>>53269414

Even a fantasy campaign can have this as a starting hook when your town you are living in hits the motherlode and just as your village about exploit the newfound wealth the taxman comes into town demanding a large cut from your party because they found the mothetlode and thus lays claim to it and demands it to be paid before they send an army's worth pf bounty hunters on you.

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>>53265894
what was his original plan?

>>53277346
Even in D&D games I've played (which are few), the DM houseruled portable holes away because of the party consensus. We feel that they detract from the experience.

Consequently, we don't play D&D anymore.

>>53263355

Medieval tax policy would focus on land taxes and income based tribute from city residents, so it wouldn't affect adventurers much. At most they might deal with customs at borders.

>>53263355
depends on the setting and type of game
if we're playing murderhobo4000
probably not very, unless as a premises to cause them trouble when they refuse to pay

if we're playing POLITICS: intrigue & bullshittery
quite a bit, do they control them, and if so to what extent, who do they keep happy? and at what cost?

if you get what I'm saying

>>53268493
>>53269414
While we are at it, can you explain to me how the peasant was meant to earn gold to pay his taxes? He works the field, and the king/duke/count takes the harvest for the king.

So, how does the peasant or his wife, even live?

>>53263355
Fat people shouldn't write fantasy because all they care about it taxes and food.

And bowel movements.

>>53269414
>>53269766
Hat Tax and Window Tax were also popular in britain for a while.

>>53263355
>And If so How could they be implemented in-game?

Whenever the PCs have too much gold :^)

How does anyone take FAT PINK MAST SHITTING BROWN WATER man seriously, again?

Taxes are bad, but have you heard about Inn-sewer-ants?

>>53278730
They don't take all of the harvest, just a portion.

>>53263355
5%-10% tax on treasure recovered from dungeon. There is you functional tax policy if you insist on having one.

>>53277510
According to interviews he was originally going to have a time skip after A Storm of Swords to put everything into place for the latter half of the story but instead ended up writing out the intervening events, which is when the narrative seems to go out of control.

>>53263355
>And If so How could they be implemented in-game?

Make the players the ones setting the tax policy. Give someone a bit of land and they'll be keenly interested in how much wealth they can squeeze from it before they have a revolution on their hands.

Even in more traditional itinerant-adventurer games, I do like to see a generic lifestyle tax like the high living rule mentioned above, just to ensure that PCs aren't spending all the loot they risked their lives for on nothing but shinier magic armour.

>>53279239
I hear it's a gnomish scheme to profit from the misfortunes of others. Insurers should be hanged alongside usurers, if you ask me.

>>53278730


...did you seriously think they took 100% of the food?

>>53276845
>Adventurers are walking WMDs

If thats what the rules says you can either:

1) Construct the background consistent with this. Just changing something like the speed of communication and the effective reach of authority will quickly make the setting something other than Ye Medieval Standard.

2) Say that reality has just started to work like the rules say: Walking WMD calling themselves "Emirikol the Chaotic", "Tim the Paladin" etc has just started to crop up and society will change, it just hasn't had time to change that much yet.

3) Put fingers on the scales. "Mordenkeinen the Magnificient" has a fetish for Authority, so if you punch the 3 hp congenital moron that is King of Goondor into paste he will turn up and use his hand-spells to do the same to you. He'll do the same if you start chopping up the 6hp town guards too btw."

4) Change The Rules.

>>53263355
No. If anything, use a "treasure tax" or whatever as a plot point to motivate the players
>the king is greedy and corrupt
>the tax collector is someone to be avoided
>the bishop is evil and has compelled the king (who is weak) to collect taxes
>there is a price to be paid for visiting the big city and it's huge markets, availability of magic items, and high-level healers etc.
>taxes are on the rise because maybe the queen is getting ready to go to war
>there is some local jerk who has tipped-off the tax collector that the adventurers have shown up with a lot of gold coin

Just some ideas. Otherwise, taking 5%-50% of recovered treasure just leads to resentment. Use it as a plot point instead

>>53268234
they spam it on /lit/ too

>>53279299
>the popular dungeons have been nationalized
>there is a toll gate in front of the monster and goblin filled dungeon, an admission fee and a tax on all loot

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>>53263399
What if you;re playing something like pic-related?
It's a wee bit like >>53263616 says.
Basically you're one of the few people in local space who has a spaceship that isn't owned by a government somewhere, and there's a lot of profit to be made if you can put in the effort. Also, governments want to steal your shit and will resort to underhanded means to do so.
Essentially Suns of Gold is a whole sourcebook dedicated to making fun adventures out of dodging interstellar tariffs and excise and becoming the Free Trade Oligarchs of your dreams.

To be fair, it does condense a government's bureaucracy to a single "Friction" number, which is a measure of how hard it is to trade in that jurisdiction. Most of the focus is on doing shit to lower said "Friction" to make lucrative deals easier

>>53268234
On /tv/ it quickly evolved into taxposting. /tg/ and /lit/ just suck at creating their own content.

>>53270614
It arbitrarily robs characters of their money while abstracting an important area for roleplaying into 'you lose half your wealth every 7 days'. This rule is so harmful to everything RPGs stand for I'm frankly surprised it's not from a 3e core handbook.

>>53263355
Only if they own a business.

RAW Waterdeep has no taxes, just fines

>>53263355
This pasta is as stale as this fat fuck's "writing"

I wanna play as an IRS investigator. The campaign will be around a seemingly routine followup on a non-compliant company, only to lead up to

>>53279827
>Adventurers are walking WMDs
Who said that? I just said that ENOUGH adventurers being pissed off is bad because they're crazy enough to try to kill a noble they suspect might try to tax them. Even if there are no levels and everyone's realistic, it's bad to have a bunch of unstable people want you dead.

Regardless, why would you want to make PCs pay taxes? Just give them less money to start with if you want them to have less. There should be upsides to counteract the many downsides of being an adventurer, or nobody would do it. People don't trust you or want you around unless they need something. The reason you can get away with violating social mores (to an extent) is that you already have basically no status. Oh, and you could die any day and nobody would mourn you but maybe a couple other people.

>>53283078
>or nobody would do it.
Nobody would do it though.

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>>53263355
Looks like fiscal responsibility's back on the menu, boys!

Do we get Income Tax?

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>And which investments do you back?
>Investment? I invest in no company, for nobody invests in mine, little auditor. Nobody cares for non profit anymore.
>We are not Auditors. We are accountants!
>Accountants? Never heard of an Accountant before. Sounds like IRS mischief to me.
>They come with files, they come with taxes. Fining, breaking, investigating, charging. Penpushers and Pennypinchers. Curse them!
>No! You don't understand. We are Accountants, financial inspectors. Tax Dodgers!
>Maybe you are, and maybe you aren't. The Director will know.

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>>53263355
>Supporting theft

>>53279837
And another board

>>53271667
>outing yourself
stop being so butthurt

>>53263355
The peasant should revolt and install a communist goverment

>>53263399
Your side villain is a corrupt Count trying to impose a strict tax on the adventurers who roam his unusually monster-infested land.

The party can either pony up and pay the tax, roll for charisma to commit tax evasion, go full ancap "TAXATION IS THEFT REEEEEEE" and murder the tax man, or try and convince (or intimidate) the count into reverting the law.

Boom, instant story. Your post was a waste of doubled.

>>53287083
And yet, no mention of the tax policies.

>>53287096
Better yet. What is your character going to to with those little orc babies in their orc craddles? Are they going to exterminate them or help them find redemption?

>>53287096
"35% of all bounties for criminals and beasts incurred by non-residents in these borders shall be forefit to the taxation office office Count Countishname the third."

The party hears this notice after collecting a seemingly fair pay rate for a bounty that has now just become a below average pay rate, this infuriates them and makes them want to not pay the tax.

The actual policy matters less than the emotion the DM creates in the players.

>>53287382
And you have just found the point, congratulations.

>>53263355
It's only important when it comes time for the party to pay their taxes.

>>53263788
I thought Orc didn't have babies considering they're artificial creatures made by Sauron

>>53263355
Economics are fun.
>Kill huge dragon and take entirety of his hoard to crash a Kingdom's economy inflating their gold-based currency.

>>53266459
They were merchants? introduce the industrial capitalist class, and Adam Smith.

>>53286976
>communist
>government
Fuck off, Lenin. It's one or the other.

>>53269040
I thought it was funny

>>53263399
>he has never played Naheulbeuk

>>53287382
Yeah, but you don't actually need to know or make a tax policy to do that.

You just have to say 'the Baron Von Badd has put a new really high tax on adventuring. You know this is gonna cut your profits down to barely anything worthwhile'

And you'll never need to come up with an exact number because of course the players won't go along with that if the main plot is opposing it.

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>>53287910
>Implying I'm not a Maoist

Maybe. I could see there being some advantage to including a sales tax. If a character is street-savvy, they can know where to find a place to buy things under the table to avoid paying tax. Otherwise, things like property tax wouldn't work for adventurers because they're travelers.

>>53287382
You don't "pay" taxes yourself, they're counted out of what you get without any input on your part. Bounty collections and shit like that would have nothing to do with the people collecting them but with the people giving them away.

>>53277510

Six books with a 2-5 year time skip between books three and four. He decided that it didn't make sense for things to suddenly go dormant and his characters not really do anything, so he decided to write the inbetween and flesh out some of the other players and locales that are important to the latter half of the story.

Then as he was fleshing it out he split book four into two books (Feast of Crows and Dance With Dragons, which take place at the same time). So six books became eight, and now we are waiting on the penultimate book of the series to be released.

Honestly he should have maybe stuck to the original plan, but I don't think Feast was anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be, and are just pissed because it introduced new perspectives instead of picking up the old ones again, which is something I appreciated. Like, I knew Cersei was fucked in the head but to see just how fucking over the edge she's gone is fascinating to read. The fucking mental gymnastics she pulls to convince hersef she's in control are astounding.

>>53277510
Stannis Baratheon Winning the Battle of Blackwater

>>53290673
So he over-reach?

>>53291457
His work output isn't actually that bad, all things considered; he's definitely not on the Rothfuss scale of lazy. The main issue is the fact that he blatantly lies about his progress and inevitably disappoints when he doesn't follow through.
He just needs someone to either force him on to deadlines, or to keep him working until he's got a definite one set.

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>>53279831
>King takes about 25% of any adventuring group income.
>Uses said money to build improve things around the kingdom
>Better roads. Better arms and armor for city guards. patrol post to scout the countryside of any bandits. Etc, etc
>He's evil.
Ancaps need to die

>>53288873
My nigga

>>53291533
The man just stop giving a fuck.
All those subplots could have been their own stand alone

>>53263355
What if our setting doesn't have currency?

>>53291817
Why not just hire the adventurers, ask them to give you what they find, and then pay them a wage or commission? Because that would take actual effort on the king's part to find good adventurers instead of just taxing everyone?

>>53291533
>>53292071

I think he's just one of those guys that needs to take a break and do other work, which is why you see him edit like a wild card collection or do a short story every so often. besides, it's not like he hasn't written anything. Those sample chapters are definitely something to chew on.

>>53293601
>implying the adventurers wont just take what they find and run if it's worth more than the bounty.

See, this is why ancap and libertarianism is retarded. People aren't robots who just do everything logically. Some people need to be under the government's boot.

>>53263399
>He's never played Mount and Blade
>He's never heard of Robin fucking Hood
Ban him from /tg/!

>>53263399
>>53263355
Personally, I think there's a good plot hook in taxes.
> the tax man is a decent guy just trying to make a living
>every year he comes around to collect from the local lords
> one lord is clearly not paying his fair share but the tax man can't prove it
> are you bad enough dudes to get into his manor and steal his ledger for the Kings apointed servant?

I could even see it being an entre into a larger campain where your help got the attention of the Court and, eventually, the King, himself.

>>53263913
I do not.

Do you know Robrert Baratheon's tax policy? No?
Does Uncle George know it? No.

>>53297496
I mean george is propably creating this right now

>>53297496
>Do you know Robrert Baratheon's tax policy? No?

We know it was pretty bad. Or at least the budget was, since Littlefinger was cooking those books HARD. We also know Tyrion imposed a Prostitute tax.

We see them talk about the state of each kingdom's finances all the time, though, admittedly, usually indirectly.

>>53269715
Fuck. Fantasycraft has a similar rule and it's fucking retarded. My character is not automatically highly irresponsible with money just cause the GM doesn't want me to buy things.

>>53276912
Tell that to the IRS. US citizens have to pay US taxes even if living and working abroad full time.

>>53280919
Sounds like a Call of Cthulhu game.

>>53291817
The orc fighter is a believer in small monarchy. Every time the king does anything, he takes away Feudal lord rights and makes life worse for everyone!

>>53299513
That would be impossible to enforce in a medieval setting.

>>53300908
Unless they have spells! Scrying, detect thoughts... The taxman ALWAYS knows all and sees all.

>>53300936
What is taxman alignment

>>53301111
Unaligned, just like Death.

>>53300936
It's not just a question of practicality. Rulers aren't gonna allow a foreign king to tax people living on their land.

>>53295174
Nobles weren't the ones paying taxes. Being a freeman meant that you relieved from such duties. It was the lower castes of society, the peasants and merchants, who had to pay their due.

>>53263616
>Shadowrunners can't shoot their way out of a problem
I disagree. You could definitely make it economically unsound to move into a neighborhood with enough bullets.

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>Taxes
REEEE, DON'T STEP ON TRADER!!

>>53302726
Pay yoyr taxes or else

>>53263399
Dune is one of the best sci-fi stories ever written and the entire story is started by the setting's fictional tax policy.

>>53303696
Dune's massively fucking overrated, that's what it is.

>>53263355
Not extensive policy no. Slight policy? sure why not but there's no need to go autistically in-depth about your world's tax system

>>53303740
Naw my man we need to be autistic as possible

>>53293601
Do you honestly believe what you just wrote

>>53306682
Yes, why shouldn't I? Do we not self-report our own income to the government? If the king wants to keep track of what random people are finding out in unexplored wilderness and ancient ruins, perhaps he should have a better system of supervising it.

>>53307967
>Do we not self-report our own income to the government?
>implying we don't lie.

>>53308633
Which is why the IRS exists.

>>53266271
Magna Carta is actually super interesting on the law and taxation front.

>>53269414
>>53268493
Mr Doberman, the creator of the breed of dog was a taxman.

>>53279246
What percentage?

>>53294734
Excuses

>>53311374
Wildly variable.

>>53268493
>It wouldn't be unreasonable for a tax collector to set high prices in order to make sure he could skim some off the top without getting noticed.

Wasn't this literally expected and the main source of revenue for the taxman in roman times?

>>53307967
>Do we not self-report our own income to the government
I lie all the time to get benefits from the government.

>>53280663
In most systems I'd agree with you, but this is from the Conan RPG. The entire game is get rich quick, party hard, and die fairly frequently.

Tax policies played a pivotal role in the Star Wars prequels.

>>53313390
how?

>>53313421

the burdensome taxing of hyperspace lanes provoked the trade federation into succession and civil war, hence starting the rise of the empire.

>>53263355

As long as you don't pull out a full Phantom Menace, then it could be quite interesting.

>>53283805
Reality has plenty of adventurers, maybe you should get out once and a while.

>>53313347
It's still making a huge decisions about your character for you. This is the reddest of all red flags and barring mind control there are no conditions that justify this bullshit.

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>Local murder hobos topple government for tax reform

>>53317133
>how dare a system contain rules that force the players to obey its themes
Get fucked.

>>53313347
>It's Conan.
>Instead of bandits or something coming to steal your loot it just gets hand-waved away.
No.

>>53317133
It falls into the theme of the game. Adventurers like Conan, Fafhrd and Mouser, so on and so forth were never fiscally responsible people. Normal, fiscally responsible people don't become adventurers, period.

>>53287353
>What is your character going to to with those little orc babies in their orc craddles?
I like how Martin asks this as a rhetorical question, implying that Tolkien didn't answer it. Except he did. They killed them if they got their hands on them. None of the children of Iluvatar, adopted or not, like orcs.

>>53278778
>Be me
>Be fat
>Love political fantasy games
>Love describing my nations' customs/cuisine

I draw the line at taxation stuff, it's tedious. Broader policy and interaction with other powers is more interesting.

>>53263355
My players are special agents of the kingdom, directly paid by the crown. Because they are trusted to be loyal, any taxes applicable are already deducted from their pay so they don't have to bother with the legals f it.

>>53298972
I mean, the state of finances never really goes beyond.

THEY HAVE MONEY

THEY DON'T

And then it never really matters because everyone pulls armies out of thin air and teleports around the world.

>>53263399

I'm a literal autist and I like reading about fictional tax policies. Why don't my opinions and specific tastes matter anon?

>>53317580
>>53317617
Obeying the themes of a setting is something between the players and the game master. It's a roleplaying convention, like not making an Arthurian knight for a game set in the USA during the prohibition. Laying this down as a hard, broad rule reeks of obesity and body odor of someone in the development team.

>>53318035
Why is he such a hack

>>53263399
Read a fuckin book my dude. Pretty much every revolution in history was brought on by bad tax policy.

>>53263399
You are kinda correct. At most it should be an offhanded mention somewhere, or a plot hook, or something like that.
Going into actual extreme details, which I assume you are getting at, is something that is completely irrelevant. Especially if your campaign is mostly about fighting.
Maybe if your campaign is less about fighting, but even then I doubt most people would like it if their gm handed them papers to fill out.

>>53320790
Tea tax?

>>53322242
The tea tax is actually a pretty minor straw on the pile that's blown out of proportion. But all the way back to rome the formula is usually
>Empire/kingdom needs money during a crisis or sometimes the king is just a cunt.
>Ruler tries to increase the taxes on the rich or close the tax dodging loopholes
>The senate or parliament is made up of the wealthiest members of society so they naturally don't want this and declare the king a tyrant.
>Both sides get the lower classes riled up with rhetoric to make them think that they are fighting for their future.
>lot's of people die.

>>53303696
>Dune is one of the best sci-fi stories ever written
It's one of the most influential sci-fi stories ever written.

The actual books are tedious as fuck to read through.

>>53322428
B-but our tea.

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Always wanted to run a game based around economic intrigue or legal intrigue rather than political intrigue. However, I am much too stupid a man to come up with something smart.

Anyone have any economic situations that would be fun in a game??

>>53323545
no

>>53279299
See: Big Rubble in Pavis under Lunar occupation.

>>53317528
Wouldn't surprise me one bit

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>>53293601
This is basically how nobility works.
Except that instead of "pays", you gift them land and serfs. And rights to do whatever they want, so long you don't visit them.
>/tg/ ends up accidentally reinventing nobility

>>53323545
I'd love to try to pull off some economic bullshit. I wouldn't rest until it reached South Sea Company levels.