When did you realize Magic: the Gathering's lore was a complete

>>53238325
Innistrad's still intact, just human population is fucked since Avacyn's and the angels are gone, Sorin's in a stone coma, and werewolf population is probably going to go unchecked.

Just wait another 5-10 years for Return to Innistrad and we get to see how Wizards retcon everything not being completely fucked and/or Emrakul breaking the moon

>>53238371
>wait another 5-10 years
>Gatewatch Saves The Furfag Plane
Ugh, no thanks.

>When did you realize Magic: the Gathering's lore was a complete and utter garbage heap
Somewhere in the fourth year of the Weatherlight crew when I started to realize that those faggots weren't going away.
Also hi Chandere. You're not doing a very good job of not making yourself obvious.

>>53238325
I noticed that in the turn of the millennium.

>>53238325
But Nahiri actually finally made Innistrad interesting. Lovecraftian horror is far more intriguing than "lol vampires r sexe"

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>>53238325
But that bitch isn't the one who destroyed the only interesting plane in the Multiverse. You must be thinking of this bitch.

>>53238325
I don't understand your question. I always realized that.

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Why is Gideon literally the worst character

>>53238325

MtG lore was good only up until the Weatherlight/Urza saga.
Mercadia & Invasion were utter dogshit.
Bradywalkers were even worse.

Fuck those writers.

>>53238844
Gideon is great when he's not ruining everything. Now however, he's ruining everything.

>>53238325
>missing comma in the +2 ability
>artist name spelled wrong

How can you fuck up this bad?

>>53238926
>>missing comma in the +2 ability
It's worse than that. The +2 ability is actually supposed to be two sentences.

>>53238452
Are you sure Amonkhet isn't "the furfag plane" ?

>>53239180
At the rate Innistrad is going it's gonna be Woofland by the time we see it again

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>>53238325
You seem upset OP. Maybe I can summon you a shoulder to cry on.

I understand it's trash, but I love it anyway

>>53238371
When I realized that the five colours of magic are the same as the five types of chromatic dragons from dnd. Real original wizards.

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>>53239516
Bet you LOVED this shit.

>>53238325
Back when I read the tempest book.
Which is also the set I joined in.

Are there people that NOT knew it wasn't great?

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>>53238325
>caring about lore

most players dont even know there is lore

MTG lore has been fucking shallow since day 1 but it didn't matter. Only in the last few years have they tried to force the same characters down your throat every single set. How many fucking Gideons and Nissas do we really need?

Right around the time when I became aware that there was an actual story, rather than mostly unconnected bits of lore that the various flavor text allude to.

>>53239950
Whoa whoa whoa! Don't talk shit about Ken Tropp or his magical realm.

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The lore has always been one of the worst parts of the game.

>>53240125
Its always the problem where the setting lore is cool and interesting, but the plot and especially the metaplot is a pile of garbage. When can we get back to stuff like the original ravnica storyline, or kamigawa? Those might not have been amazing, but they were cool and fun.

>>53240171
All of the Magic story posts are probably just some shitty freelance writer that they hired to flesh out the details. They create an interesting world and then they pay someone who can't get a novel published a thousand dollars and they shit it out in a weekend.

>>53239278
Apart me doesn't mind cause I want more lore about the werewolves cause Ulrich and Arlin have been kind to me when I've been playing my deck.

>>53240314
Fucking furfaggot

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>We could have had New Phyrexia spreading across the Multiverse but instead we got Gatewatch ruining plane after plane

Was Nahiri planned when they printed Stoneforge Mystic or did they just see the opportunity to turn a character on an iconic card into a character and run with it?

>>53240572
The Lithomancer existed as a vague character when Zendikar first came out, some ancient protector of the plane that had trapped Ob-Nixilis there and known Sorin at some point. So Stoneforge Mystic always had a connection to "The Lithomancer". Later they fleshed her out as Nahiri, and based her outfit on the Mystic because it followed that the Stoneforge mystics would wear attire similar to their icon.

>>53238325
>Lorwyn remains virgin pure
>Shitty Universal Picture horror world shitcanned

>>53238676
Fuck off. Lovecraft shit is painfully played out. I'm so sick of cosmic seafood showing up in pop culture. Weird fiction in general needs to die and sleep for a decade before it can be cool again.

It feels FUCKING GOOD OP. Your tears are sweet, so very very sweet.

>>53240631
We're never going back to Lorwyn

Deal with it

>>53240844
Good. I want them to never touch Lorwyn/Shadowmoor or Kamigawa or Ravnica. I want them to remain pure and unsullied. Post-Ravnica plains have been lame as fuck. We get Greek plane. Mongul plane. Egypt plane. Lovecraft plane. None of them really take their source mythology in cool directions like Kamigawa or Lorwyn did.

I want them never to touch those planes again. Look what happened when they went back to Mirrodin just to have Phyrexia cuck it.

>>53240880
Dude, you do realize Ravnica is disproportionately popular compared to the other planes and we're almost definitely going a third time, probably sooner than later, right?

>>53238325
As far as I can tell she's never even heard of Ravnica

>>53240631
>Lovecraft shit is painfully played out. I'm so sick of cosmic seafood showing up in pop culture.

Misunderstanding Lovecraft is played out. Hell, Shadows over Innistrad was more Lovecraft than Eldritch Moon was. Lovecraft has never been about extra-dimensional calimari.

>>53238676
OG Innistrad did gothic horror right and the vampires were only a small part of it.

>>53238325
The best planes in mtg are Dominaria, Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, Mirrodin, OG Innistrad, Kamigawa, and Ravnica.

>>53240945
Shhh, don't give the WotC employees who lurk /tg/ any more ideas.

>>53241089
Can we add Amonkhet to the list? It looks interesting with its zombie robot labor force and society focused on overcoming trials to get into heaven.

>>53241174
My issue with Amonkhet is that all we see is the one city rather than the plane as a whole. The other ones I listed were explored thoroughly and we got to see many faces of them.

>>53241224
You got a point there. Amonkhet has an interesting idea, but the top-tier planes had interesting ideas. It also shoehorns in MTG staples like angels without really making them unique or interesting. Lorwyn was cool because it took staples like goblins and elves and interpreted them in new ways.

Maybe it'll get more interested as the story unfolds? I'm just worried about Nicol Memelas hijacking the story and being totally-not-the-god-king.

>>53241174
>Kangs: The Plane
No.

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For all the people who are constantly comparing weatherlight to gatewatch, the weatherlight weren't nearly as bad. There was a big emphasis on magic having huge worlds full of different crazy magical beings. The recent gatewatch-oriented sets have been hellbent on full scale war. The recent Zendikar and Innistrad sets haven't been about what made the original sets so great: big diverse worlds. Now everything is about crazy combat since BFZ, and it's getting really stale. Amonkhet is a step in the right direction, but I still don't think it's all that great.
>>53241174
Not him, but Amonkhet doesn't have enough diversity. when I look for "diversity" in the lore, I'm not talking about lots of black folk. I'm thinking about the guilds of Ravnica or the tribes in Lorwyn/Shadowmoor or Innistrad. When you look at pretty much any of those sets they have a ton of different creatures and factions represented and they're not all engaged in full-scale war with each other.
>>53241224
this
>>53241269
The hekma barrier's gonna explode and there's gonna be full-blown war and Bolas will be involved somehow and whole plane's gonna be trashed, since it's just the one city anyway.
That said, the desert is my favorite part of Amonkhet by far, so even though I don't like the war-oriented sets I still have hope for HoD.

>>53240473
I like playing Gruul decks fucking sue me.

>>53238371
Sigarda and her flight (the Host of Herons?) are still around, and allied with humanity, so I imagine humans will survive but be in serious trouble, like back in Dark Ascension only with less of everyone.

>>53241305
They really did chicken out on giving not-Egyptians the proper skin color. They didn't want their SJW girlfriends to bitch at them.

>>53241317
>>53241224
>>53241174
>>53241269
Here's the real question-what is the WORST plane?

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>>53241305
fun part of Amonkhet is the stuff beyond the hekma
and the white zombie mummies being slave labor is kind of cool

>>53241402
Yeah I'm kind of pissed that they're just going to do "Bolas shows up and there'S chaos everywhere but the Gatewatch use a hail mary and defeat him but do they really win??"

>>53241381
>Here's the real question-what is the WORST plane?
I didn't care for Kaladesh

>>53241446
Kaladesh felt so bland. I took a hiatus around that time and when I got back it took me a while to realize that this was a new plane, not a weird part of Ravnica.

>>53241446
Kaladesh was a mistake. It had the potential to be a legitimately interesting plane, with an underutilized cultural inspiration in fantasy. Instead we got "lmfao what if indian steampunk xddd"

>>53241428
The Gatewatch getting killed is asking for too much, so I hope they just have to escape after Nicol Bolas does some crazy shit.

Card-wise all I want is a cool Nicol Bolas card.

>>53241381
Probably Kaladesh. All we saw of it was a brief glimpse of one city and all that happened was the Gatewatch coming in and fucking it up. They just toppled the society as it was and left, even though the society didn't really need that big of a revolution. The only problem with it was Tezzy's machinations. They could've just removed Tezz instead of fucking up literally everything.

>>53240499
>we could have the same storyline that was so shit the executives had to step in and fix it themselves
Stay salty, Mark.

>>53239180
Lol, sure... And by furry you mean minotaurs, jackals, birds... Naga... And regular cats, not even anthro'd. And humans... I don't see your argument that well. Not like they want to do anything besides trials it up.

>>53241569
Spotted the Anointed

>>53241527
Tezzeret did nothing wrong

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>>53241470
>>53241477
>>53241446
>>53241527
a Kamigawa-style kaladesh could've been one of the greatest sets of all time, if only wizards had embraced the weirdness

>>53241746
...Kaladesh was India themed?

The Eldrazi threat and Plot Armor being the only real reliable reason for being able to survive against them was pretty stupid.

Oh, and making their drive just a consuming force and making them the center piece for two consecutive blocks was stupid as well.

>>53241766
Chandra's name is indian. Kaladesh didn't really show Indian themes but yeah, it was supposed to be Indian Steampunk

>>53241766
>indian architecture
>tigers and cats
>everyone but chandra was brown for some reason
>but no shitting streets

I think they were too scared of offending the poos. Also the 2 set block thing really fucks things up for lore.

>>53241832
I noticed that in Cathartic Reunion, Chandra is pale as fuck compared to her parents. And I agree, 2 sets blows, especially when my favorite plane (Innistrad) got the two-set treatment. Why couldn't there have been a third set about humans rebuilding and the Gatewatch hunting down Nahiri?

Wait so did Innistrad not actually get fucked by Eldrazi?

>>53238325
Go away, Chicken-chan.

>>53241921
Just the tip

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>>53238325
When this bitch destroyed the ACTUAL only interesting plane in the Multiverse

>>53238325
>When did you realize Magic: the Gathering's lore was a complete and utter garbage heap

The first time I looked at it.

>>53241921
You think the angels and humans that were killed and/or transformed into abominations magically got back to normal?

>>53241381
Unironically Dominaria. It has 0 personality.

>>53241961
Hey, on the plus side the demon worshippers no longer control the government because there is no government

>>53241959
Fuck you, Norn-senpai best girl.

>>53241961
Read Splendid Reclamation you idiot

>>53241986
Nigger, she's literally made out of oil metal and sharp edges.

>>53242009
Yeah, but remember: this is Nissa speaking here. Her version of fixing a plane is probably "kill all the non-elves"

>>53240279
It's not.
It's the same people they've got running the art concepting/flavor text/worldbuilding stuff.
Which means, in general, they're shitting them out in between doing everything else they need to do to put out two blocks a year

>>53242041
Didn't you remember? They retconned her character so now she loves diversity and dyke power and shit.

>>53241921
Oh it did, Emrakul corrupted Church of Avacyn, Sorin wasn't around to clean Emrakul's shit because Nahiri was throwing a bitch fit at him and the vampires.

>>53242062
>tfw no cute nazi elf lesbian to sexually dominate the literal firebrand lesbian
You fucked up WotC

>>53238325
The concept of Return blocks was a mistake.

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>>53241795
Them being a consuming force is A-OK in my book, especially since it's ever-so-slightly more complicated than that. They just shouldn't have BS'd the ending so bad. These things were once worshipped as gods and are way stronger than any gods in the lore, so a fireball from a post-mending planeswalker shouldn't have been able to take two of them down. Especially since the card depicting the attack used to kill them doesn't even kill either of Ulamog's iterations in game.
>>53242163
Return to Ravnica was cool. I think's either the Jacewatch or two block sets (or maybe both) that's really put things in the shitter.

Odyssey block was good and fun

Mirrodin was probably the most interesting and unique plane the creative team has created.

I like Theros and Tarkir as a guilty pleasure.

>tfw we will never go to the Waifu Plane

>>53242183
I honestly talk to my friends about the hypothetical if Emrakul shifted to a plane that wasn't Innistrad and how that shit would have played out. I'm convinced if it was Ravnica it would have been fun.

>>53242183
I agree with you, but ffs there's a green card that removes indestructible that's Nissa's half of the spell. That's how they killed the titans

Still though, it's bullshit that they just straight up burned the titans. Didn't somebody tell them off for doing it?

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>>53242183
>Especially since the card depicting the attack used to kill them doesn't even kill either of Ulamog's iterations in game.
That's because it's half of a combo attack, Anon.

>>53242250
>>53242253
Still, that's 14 mana to kill Ulamog, or 16 if you want to kill Ulamog and Kozilek. Doesn't that seem like an awful lot?

>>53241766
>>53241746
Yes, Kaladesh was India-themed and it was done so badly that one of the specific individuals the block was made to pander to ended up bitching about it.

http://talinthas.tumblr.com/post/150111624732/kaladesh-you-break-my-heart

Enjoy.

>>53241428
Calling it now, Nissa learns how to properly unfuck at least a couple of the gods, Bolas still kicks the gatewatchs asses, and is only mildly disgruntled.

>>53242300
In the story, Nissa channeled all of the remaining mana of Zendikar into Chandra's fireball.

>>53238325

Around Legends.

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I honestly think Gatewatch is a fine idea, it makes sense on Zendikar and Amonkhet.

But having them EVERY FUCKING SET is fucking stupid. They've ruined the impact of every set they've been in.

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>>53242244
It would certainly be interesting to see how the guilds would've handled that
>>53242300
muh leylines
>>53242253
forgot about this, but it still feels like some real forced cheese, neither Nissa nor green are really known for removing indestructibility
they should've handled them the same way Part 2 of JoJo handled the invincible being Kars: sending them hurtling through the Blind Eternities for the foreseeable future.

>>53240499
Phyrexia+Bolas is coming. Just wait. Elesh Norn, Bride of Bolas.

>>53242244
>the hypothetical if Emrakul shifted to a plane that wasn't Innistrad

Ravnica could have another 5 guilds(colorless/color), or have a big mechanical "anti-guild" presence.

Theros could have them worshipping the Eldrazi and making Colorless/Color god combinations, or corrupting the existing gods. Kruphix could be in agony and go crazy or something, although he serves a larger purpose.

Tarkir could have the khans twist to gain eldritch power against the Dragons, with people still on the dragons side to stop the alien scourge. (the khans could even have 2/C from lorwyn to represent the colorless theme while still having them be tri-color and possible to cast without huge color fixing)

>>53241428
Bolas doesn't have to show up, he's on home turf. He's the Set of this set, and everyone knows it. He's gonna shitstomp the Gatewatch.

>>53242024
Still would.

>>53242403
Just kill one of them, I really hope he does. I know death makes them into mummies and brings them back, but I don't give a fuck. At least one of them needs to die.

Is there any fluff for the unused planechase planes. Which ones would be interesting to visit?

http://magiccards.info/extra/plane/planechase-2012-edition/akoum.html
http://magiccards.info/extra/plane/planechase/academy-at-tolaria-west.html

Kephalai
Kolbahan
Equilor
Belenon
Fabacin
Mongseng
Azgol
Ergamon
Kyneth
Xerex
Iquatana
Ulgrotha
Muraganda
Moag
Segovia
Valla
Arkhos
Wildfire
Kaldheim
Ir
Luvion
Pyrulea
Karsus
Kinshala

>>53242435
Ulgrotha has already been visited.
So has Segovia.

>>53242435
Ulgrotha was in Homelands and Segovia is from Legends, but I don't blame you for not knowing that.

>>53242362
>It would certainly be interesting to see how the guilds would've handled that
>Azorious wants to destroy Emrakul
>Boros wants to weaponize
>Selesnya wants Emrakul to leave
>Izzet wants to experiment and harvest it
>Gruul wants to kill it
>Rakdos want to fuck it
>Golgari want to eat it
>Orzhov want to capture and then sell it

>>53242300
It's 20 cast them so it's sort of a bargain.

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It's too bad Garruk got trapped in Politically Correct Public Relations hell. I want a set where he shows up and starts killing off the Jacewatch one-by-one ultimately killing 2 or 3 of them.
>>53242403
he better
>>53242428
I think bolas will have them on the ropes, but I don't think Wizards will kill off any of their precious trademarks yet (sadly)
>>53242435
Arkhos is functionally Theros, and I think one of them is effectively Tarkir too, so we did get those, but with different names.

>>53242428
More hoping they fuck them over and Jace gets taken by Bolas. That would really shake their shit up.

>>53238325
Ob Nixilis being reduced to a saturday morning cartoon villain happened before Nahiri threw a bitchfit

That and Lorwyn/Shadowmoor is a far more interesting plane than Innistrad

>>53242479
>Dimir was secretly Emrakul the whole time

>>53242507
>be Dimir
>telepathy is baller
>some tentacle monster comes out of nowhere
>don't matter other fags will handle it
>it's whole thing is mind fucking
>start hearing the voices
>covers being blown because you have tentacle shit sprouting from your back

>>53242479
>We don't want to know what the Simic want to do to Emrakul

>>53242479
>>53242531
>>53242565
>Simic trying to perform controlled mutations and create synthetic eldrazi and cross-breeds

>>53242565
Needs more toad.

The Hekma is going to fall and Bolas is going to invade Kaladesh with an army of undead. Bolas doesn't kill people, he makes them into slaves first. BR Gideon. Ugin shows up.

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>>53242479
>>53242507
>>53242531
>>53242573
So who would get massively fucked over and end up like pic related?

>>53242617
Aurelia

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I didn't know people cared about the lore of this game.

>>53242617
Aurelia-Rakdos Mardu fusion time.

>>53242715
>Aurelia-Rakdos
It's like Brisela but on fire, I'm not sure if that'd be more horrifying or if it'd just look metal as fuck.

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>>53240279
Why don't they hire a legit fantasy/comic writer to fix magic lore and market the hell out of it. They're the ones who want to make Magic into movies and shit to the point where they've fucked up the game mechanics to do it. Why not go all in and make sure that if it becomes a corporate sell out that at least it's an entertaining one?

>>53242891
"The investment is not worth the gain"

>>53242891
I wish they'd do more webcomics for Magic. I legitimately enjoyed the one with Garruk and Liliana.

>>53242617
Zeganna and Niv Mizzet
Teysa and Tajic

>>53242715
>Aurelia the Fallen
>Rakdos the Defiled
>Aurekdos, Lord of War

>>53242937
>Niv-Mizzet, the Mind of Emarakul
>Zeganna, Voice of Emrakul
>Nivana, Avatar of Emrakul

>>53239516
But wizards created D&D too didn't they?

>>53242308
This lady doesn't seem very smart.

>MaRo says top-down indian would never happen
>has unrealistic expectations when saheeli gets spoiled because she specifically is wearing indian garb and has the racial features etc etc.
>is surprised when what MaRo said is actually what they made, a plane with some very light indian influence


?????

>>53242435
iirc mongseng is tarkir now.

>multiverse
>time rips
>some greek fag is the most powerful dude in the game even though there's a shitzillion things that can kill him
I knew it was trash the second I read about Nicol Bolas.

I'm actually kinda liking the story bits of amonkhet.

Doesn't help that I love moralefags like Gideon

>>53238676
Lovecraft is shit and wathever mystery remained to his works has been dragged through the ground and shot repeatedly by the barrage of shit games slapping Cthulhu everywhere as soon as it became public domain.

>>53238325
Lorwyn was the last time Magic fiction was anywhere near interesting or endearing. Alara onwards has been nothing but a big, fat, shitty mix of soap opera and superhero comics, now with a massive dump of social justice bullshit right in the middle for just to make sure nobody with more taste than atention starvation could like it.

>>53242995
Zegana, Voice of Emrakul
5GU
Devoid
Graft 7
Trample
(g/u), remove a +1/+1 counter from Zegana, Voice of Emrakul: Draw a card.

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>>53242995
As awesome as it would be, Ravnica already has more than enough mechanical complexity, adding Eldrazi would be too much.

>>53241224
>My issue with Amonkhet is that all we see is the one city rather than the plane as a whole
Welcome to the NWO dream.

>>53243239
Anon we need it
>play Aurekdos
>swing sacrafice all half of noneldrazi creatures
>after combat create eldrazi scions with ingest and lifelink equal to the number of creatures you sacraficed
>there's additional combat step after this

>>53241381
Kaladesh. It was the worst interpretation of Steampunk and the worst interpretation of Colonial India ever, at the same time.

>>53242435
Equilor is a plane that's older than the oldest old to have ever olded, ever. Urza went there once.
Mongseng was what they were going to use for the plane now called Tarkir, but 'Mongseng' couldn't be used for various legal reasons. Same for Arkhos/Theros.
Ulgrotha is the setting of Homelands.
Segovia is a tiny tiny plane, where the leviathans are 3/3s.
Wildfire is a plane of efreets and shit, used to have portals to Dominaria and whatnot.
Muraganda is DINOSAUR LAND and home of the Mimeoplasm.
IIRC a few random cards have been noted as being from Iquatana and/or Pyrulea, but fuck if I remember which.

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>>53238325
>he thought Innistrad was interesting
>he liked numagic
Ah, to be a young tard.

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>>53243038
>But wizards created D&D too didn't they?

That is absolutely correct. A company founded in the early 90's created a game that popped up in the mid 70's.

>>53242995
Nono, Aurelia and Niv.
Maximum fire.

>>53242911
The webcomics were the only time I was legitimately interested the lore.

>>53242995
>>Aurekdos, Lord of War
>>Nivana, Avatar of Emrakul
>>53243356
>Aurelia and Niv

What would those fuckers even look like?

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>>53243458

>>53239516
>White
Savage dragons with no culture or community
>Blue
Lives in deserts, shoots lightning
>Black
OK I'll give you this one
>Red
Divine and strategize out of habit
>Green
Social, talkative and inclined to use guile

Who the hell taught you about the color pie?

>>53239516
>the three primary additive colors, plus the two extremes of light and dark
I mean, if you're going to have five colors, they ARE the most logical five.

>>53243494
...Anon which one is that supposed to be ?

>>53242891
>they're the ones who want to Magic into movies...
There no source for that and it's just the knee jerk reaction of neckbeards

>>53244148
A hannibal from god eater

>>53238698
Damn with the Dragons! Bring back the Khans!

Honestly I preferred Eldritch Moon to any of the other Innistrad sets, including the original ones.

Oath was meh but Khans, Kaladesh and Innistrad were all great sets from a story/Art/Setting perspective.

>>53241486
I don't think Wizards killing one of them is completely out of the question. I could see them killing off Gideon with all the focus he has been getting since the Gatewatch was started. Hopefully they bring back and replace him with karn.

>>53244464
>Kaladesh
>great from Story perspective

>>53244464
Kaladesh was shit.

>>53241317
>One of the earliest stories involves two brothers blowing up a planet in a machine war with the sylex
>The next major arc is that same character taking a team of planeswalkers into super hell with gundams that shoot magic nukes
>Then they crash a moon into the planet
>Not about crazy combat

>>53242401
>Tarkir could have the khans twist to gain eldritch power against the Dragons, with people still on the dragons side to stop the alien scourge. (the khans could even have 2/C from lorwyn to represent the colorless theme while still having them be tri-color and possible to cast without huge color fixing)
Wouldn't Ulgin just fucked up their shit?

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I liked Kaladesh because it is a step away from the grim-dark that is most other planes. Most of its stories were dumb, they literaly did a revolution because of micro-agressions, but the art was very much on point. There is no other plane in the multiverse as bright and cheery as Kaladesh.

...Which is why the story was so dumb. First block we saw the comfiest city to live in and then on the second block everyone was up in arms because some parts of the city didn't have the same privilages as the others. Who the hell starts a revolution because they cut off their electricity? The Consulate weren't even bad people—they even showed us Consulate goodguys like Sram and Dovin—but they wrote the rest of the stories with the assumption that we'd cheer on the rebels.

I think Kaladesh's main flaw was that there was no-one to root for. At least in BFZ you could choose to root for the Allies or the Eldrazi. In Kaladesh there's the Freedom Figthers, who decided to revolt because they took their inventions or smth, and the Consulate, who are just doing their job, how exciting. Both team's motives were uninteresting if not plain dumb so naturally people were not invested in them. The only time I actually rooted for a side was when Liliana decided to assassinate Tez alone and even that was ran over by `hurr durr free the people`.

>>53245042
What about lorwyn?

>Super gross
>Beefslab
>Gids
>hell no
>Come the hell on
>Jerk
>Easy, big fella. Not attacking mom.
>Sowwy
>The hell.
>punchybag
>blah blah blah
>FFFFFFFFF...
>super embarrassing
>super dog noses
>freaking idiot
>SHUT UP SHUT UP.
>WHAT IS COMING OUT OF MY FACE?
>super pi—uh, real angry,
>WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST SAY?
>...I think I'm gonna puke.
>made you feel weird
>SorryIblewupyourthingy
>Big Sis

>>53238325
Nahiri did nothing wrong. Sorin had it coming for being such a huge asshole. Also, Emrakul is best character.

>>53245539
I'm still a lil bit pissed that she still has white in her colour id, since she effectively sacrificed two planes, caused countless deaths, and unleashed one of the most horrifying, destructive forces to have ever existed. All for personal revenge. She should've been R/B not R/W, or at the very least just R.

>>53240956
Uh...wow.

It's really amazing how many of you people don't fucking read anything. Seriously. Go read something by Lovecraft. Any of you. Go fucking do it, then have these god damn discussions so you know what the fuck you're talking about. I'm a huge fan, and yes I agree it is overplayed in a lot of settings, but that's only because people do it poorly. I actually really enjoyed the new Innistrad block, if only for the art. The story and the characters are going to shit, but hey. We all play this card game so what the hell.

>>53245574
Yes, however, I personally believe that Emrakul and the Eldrazi aren't bad guys. I could go on and on, but I also side with Nahiri because Sorin was horribly cruel to her. Didn't show up when she needed him most because muh personal wants. She tries to reason either him, and he just treats her like shit and encases her in a demon-infested prison for years and years. This guy basically said "yeah, fuck you and Zendikar." So she responded in kind.

>>53245600
Didn't he only imprison her after she attacked him?
Pretty sure she tried to attack him, and ended up fighting Avacyn. It's not too unreasonable for him to think that she was trying to kill him, and since it's a pain trying to kill a planeswalker/they had history, he just imprisoned her instead of killing her.
Also, when she called out to him for help, the message probably got blocked by the protections he put in place for his plane, yes it was an oversight, but he didn't have any reason to suspect the eldrazi would get out. Nahiri was the one who let the situation get out of hand, but she managed to sort it herself. She shouldn't have needed to call on Ugin/Sorin but still got pissy with him anyway.
She didn't try to reason with him, she just bitched at him, and when he got bitchy back, she tried to threaten him.
Oh, and the 3 (Sorin, Nahiri, & Ugin) had originally decided that they would fuck over Zendikar when they trapped the Eldrazi the first time, Nahiri just got attached to it, then got bored and neglected it, leading to the eldrazi nearly escaping.

Also:
>I personally believe that Emrakul and the Eldrazi aren't bad guys.
You have to admit they're neutral at best, but eating entire planes is pretty much "bad guy" material.

>>53238325
Invasion block when it ended up being "everyone you remotely cared for dies lol".

>>53245752
Uh...dude. You got your facts all wrong. Seriously... I'm too lazy to correct every detail, but you need to go back and read them. Damn.

I went from reading every story each week religiously to literally never opening an article in a single Battle for Zendikar Nissa story.

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>>53238325
Nah, worst point in the lore was when they made central characters that started to matter more than the individual planes themselves.

>>53245863
Well I'm mostly going by what it says here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/stone-and-blood-2016-06-15
Which I thought was the official site, but if you have a better one, please share it.

>>53245791

That as well.

Invasion was shit and wildly inconsistent

>>53245863
>>53245882
Seriously, I wasn't being sarcastic, I don't know any other lore sites except wizards.com and the wiki, which says the same thing.
Where should I be looking?

>>53238325
When they moved on from Akroma and Phage.

Sorin deserved it. He pledged to assist zendikar in it's time of need, and when the space tentacle monsters broke out of their underground prison made of not-cubes, he was too busy getting in that dank interplanar pussy to bother helping. At least ugin was fucking dead, so he had an excuse.

>>53246843
Sorin never knew about the Eldrazi until after they had been resealed, at which point he said he'd help later on (probably talking out of his ass, but he was weak as fuck at the time, and needed to recover).

>>53244148
An angel dragon with all the fire, of course.

>>53246070
Different Anon, but I think that Sorin at least somewhat deserved it for being a fucking idiot. Banishing her into the Helvault was stupid as fuck, because now noone is watching the Eldrazi, cause he has other shit to do and Ugin can't be bothered. If he hadn't been as condescending as he was when she tried to talk to him they never would have fought and Innistrad wouldn't have been fucked.

>it's a "who was right, Sorin or Nahiri" episode
Fuck's sake.
THEY ARE BOTH ARROGANT TWATS
NEITHER ARE RIGHT
THEY ARE BOTH SPITEFUL, VAIN, CONCEITED OLDWALKER BASTARDS AND BOTH DESERVE TO DIE

>>53238325
>giving a shit about the """""""lore""""""" of a card game

>>53247024
Oh yeah, he was being a massive douche, my original point was that Nahiri shouldn't have white in her colour id, since she fucked up everyone's day all to get revenge, letting countless people die.
Sorin just doesn't think too hard about stuff, and just assumes everything will work out, hence his planar barrier blocking the signal, since he wasn't expecting Nahiri to have an issue with the Eldrazi. He's condescending as fuck, but she flipped the fuck out, and way overreacted. And after he imprisoned her, he pretty much took over her job of keeping an eye on Zendikar, but due to his aforementioned half-assed attitude to everything, Nissa betrayed him and he just had enough of it, and fucked off.

TL;DR Sorin needed to be taught a lesson about not being a dick, but Nahiri has no sense of scale and instead of fixing everything decided to ruin everything even further.

>>53247137
She's WR due to the whole combo of emotions plus eye for an eye (you caused my plane to get fucked over so I'm going to fuck your plane over).
The fact that she's bugshit nuts on top of all that is irrelevant. She's bugshit WR (and if she hadn't been put in the helvault, probably wouldn't be bugshit)
The real problem, of course, is that Wizards decided for some damn reason 'let's have these two fight' and then couldn't think of a good reason so just halfassed it the entire time and made both of them look like crazy idiots.

>>53247368
No character who is even remotely W would just sit there and not lift a finger to try and help stop the Eldrazi, nevermind actively trying to get them to kill more people. She's bugshit R.
Yeah, you're probably right with Wizards' borderline schizophrenia with plotlines. I think they just needed something to keep Sorin from stopping the Eldrazi himself, so that the Jacetice League can have the spotlight.

>>53238325
When the Jacetice League shit happened, along with them trying to make fantasy worlds as palatable as possible to normalfags.

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>>53247529
White is not the good "help everybody" color.
Enacting vengeance is extremely white.

>>53247368
>and made both of them look like crazy idiots.
So, like oldwalkers? Most oldwalkers are crazy idiots who start eternal blood feuds over minor disagreements.

Sorin... needs consistent writing. He is different from Zendikar block to Tarkir block to Shadows over Innistrad.

>>53247681
White is all about the community, putting the whole before the individual, and organisation. This is plastered just about everywhere you look for a breakdown of the colour pie.
She actively helped to sow chaos, destroy communities, and kill innocents to enact her personal revenge.
Vengeance is acceptable in white because it can be done in retaliation to those who would/have upset the order. Just like Nahiri did. Killing Nahiri for siccing the Eldrazi on Innistrad would be an extremely white action, provided it doesn't unbalance another plane.

>>53247817
Not all communities are equal. To Nahiri, her community (Zendikar) was already destroyed. The Eldrazi were out, to her understanding (thanks to Ugin's indoctrination) there's no stopping them.
Thus vengeance is all that's left. To bring punishment and (perceived) justice is as white as it gets. It is not "personal revenge" if it is revenge for the entire 'community' as it were.

>>53241367
Sigarda is the only angel still aligned with humanity. Dark Acension still had angels and humans were still dying out, now the angels are joining the list of problems and being led by the Eldrazi horror that used to be one of the greatest angelic champions and the shepherdess for most ghosts on the plane.

Innistrad is fucked.

>>53238490
This, except I was sick of them already in weatherlight itself. Magic's sandbox setting with only hints of lore stopped dead in its tracks with Visions. They laid it on way too thick after that.

>>53240499
Both those options are cancer and I will laugh when the Gatewatch friendship Norn to death.

>>53247987
Brisela was killed as part of Eldritch Moon's storyline.
There's presumably still some uncorrupted angels under Sigarda's command.

>>53247983
Good point, but I still feel as though her not helping anything, even after trapping Sorin, would exclude her from being white, as at that point, she had her vengeance and knew how the Eldrazi could be trapped. She just kinda fucked off and left everyone else to deal with the rampaging horrors and chaos.
I guess I can see white being in her colour id, but it's very slim at best and requires a bit of mental gymnastics imo, to see her actions as anything other than "Well, my stuff is ruined, so I'm gonna abandon the rest of the people I swore to protect and go ruin Sorin's stuff".

>>53242231
We did, but that was way back in Urza's Saga and it got destroyed.

>>53248128
>and knew how the Eldrazi could be trapped
She knew how she, Ugin, and Sorin could trap the Eldrazi with 40 years of work and oldwalker powers.
And now she doesn't have oldwalker powers, Zendikar doesn't have 40 years, and Sorin betrayed her and stuffed her in darkness for millennia.

>>53238325
i was reading up on some of the planeswalkers recently most of them don't seem bad. if someone handed me a character like sorin, gideon or even ajani for an RPG i wouldn't throw the sheet out like i would if someone handed me illiana and even then i don't think she is entirely unsalvagable

but goddamn are the gatewatch a circus of fuckups. i can only imagine what they are gonna do to amonkhet

>>53248280
Fuck it up even harder.

>>53248233
If the Jacetice League can trap them in about a week, with no prior knowledge of hedrons, she should be able to do the same with all the prior knowledge. She didn't need a permanent prison like last time, just one that would hold for long enough for a permanent prison to be built.
Also, he imprisoned her for a millenium, just one. While it's still a long damn time, the argument stands that she should've had at least some situational awareness.
And Sorin didn't betray her, he basically put her in timeout for attacking him. To quote the actual story it happened in: '"For what it's worth," said Sorin, "I never wanted this, young one."'
He didn't want to kill her, and the only other way he could stop her from killing him was to lock her up until she cooled off.

>>53246843
If you remove eldrazi completely from the equation, you could still say Nahiri was justified in attacking him, as he carelessly allowed vampires to take root on Zendikar. The guy has no moral compass. Even his creation of Avacyn and the church was rooted in pure narcissism. He could have enlisted the help of the gatewatch to thwart Nahiri, but instead he told Jace to fuck off and went up against her with an army of mooks.

>>53243073
>>some greek fag is the most powerful dude in the game even though there's a shitzillion things that can kill him
Which? Barely kept up with the "story" of mtg for a while.

>>53248426
>If the Jacetice League can trap them in about a week, with no prior knowledge of hedrons
They were given a crash course on what to do from Ugin who is the only one who actually knows this stuff. Nahiri knows lithomancy, she does not know Eldrazi binding magic. She simply built an Eldrazi binding network from Ugin's instructions.
And also she doesn't have oldwalker capabilities any longer. She is nowhere near as powerful. How could she possibly expect to trap even one Eldrazi? Jace and company had the help of an entire Zendikari army.
>She didn't need a permanent prison like last time, just one that would hold for long enough for a permanent prison to be built.
She didn't think there was anything left to save so why even try for this plan? The second place on Zendikar she saw was an entire continent of dust. The first place was a report that the kor were dying out and fast.
>And Sorin didn't betray her, he basically put her in timeout for attacking him
You misunderstand entirely. She still could not possibly count on Sorin's aid when he already denied her. Before the fight, before being sealed away, he refused to help and so she can no longer expect him to help.
All circumstances aside, she cannot put herself in the situation she was when the Eldrazi were first sealed.

>>53248705
If she had even bothered trying to get Ugin's help, she would've been able to. Besides, I find it hard to believe that she could construct an entire network around binding magic and not learn anything about it.
She shouldn't need oldwalker powers, like I said, the Jacetice League did it fairly easily, since they actually gave a damn and worked with the Zendikari she abandoned.

She was told they had been to one continent, the fact that she didn't even think to look at/check/care about anywhere else on the plane is entirely on her.

Sorin didn't deny her outright, he said "Not now". He tried to follow up, saying "This is a critical time..." but she interrupted him with (poor storytelling) rocks.

She just threw a hissy fit, refused to hear/outright ignored Sorin's explanations, and attacked him. That deserves a time out.

this whole time i thought i was alone with the grips of MtG lore. Good to see that most people here agree that the jacetice leage is ass and fuck eldrazi.

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>>53244230
the head designer has on record of his blog said that a movie is in the works multiple times and the move to change the direction of magic's story happened a year after that movie's official announcement from Wizards with the release of Origins(the set).

They want that capeshit $$$$$$$$ they want it bad.

>>53248893
>If she had even bothered trying to get Ugin's help, she would've been able to
She has no idea how to contact Ugin, and when she arrived on Zendikar, she noted the eye was in disarray.
>She shouldn't need oldwalker powers, like I said, the Jacetice League did it fairly easily, since they actually gave a damn and worked with the Zendikari she abandoned.
They had an entire force of an army and five planeswalkers working together to create that hedron alignment, an army Nahiri did not even know existed.
>She was told they had been to one continent, the fact that she didn't even think to look at/check/care about anywhere else on the plane is entirely on her.
She went to Bala Ged herself and saw the fact that it was no longer there.
There's no reason to think the rest of the plane would be spared this fate or that a resistance could be mounted. She's seen resistances against the Eldrazi on planes previously, and how they don't work.
>Sorin didn't deny her outright, he said "Not now".
Irrelevant, it made him untrustworthy to her perspective. His refusal at all for any circumstance is reason enough to not count him as a reliable asset.

>>53249497
>tfw if Garruk makes it to the big screen it's going to be as a bad guy to serve Liliana is a good girl who didn't do anything wrong
>feels bad

>>53250076
>She has no idea how to contact Ugin
True, if she hadn't been in the Helvault, she likely would've discovered Ugin's fate, but that wouldn't matter if she took five goddamn minutes to check up on the people who were still alive. If she had any actual compassion for the people she swore to protect, she would've been there when the Jacetice League arrived, and been able to actually help.
>There's no reason to think the rest of the plane would be spared this fate or that a resistance could be mounted.
She was one of the ones who imprisoned them in the first place, she KNOWS a resistance isn't pointless.
>Irrelevant
If explaining his situation is irrelevant, then there really wasn't a point to him trying to reason with her, as she has clearly thrown all thoughts of teamwork, working for the greater good, and actually helping anyone, aside for revenge.

My entire point here isn't that what she did was unreasonable for someone purely acting out of instinct, but that she had completely abandoned caring about or trying to help anyone other than herself, and that she shouldn't really have white in her colour id.

>>53248280
Just wondering, what do you dislike about Liliana?

>>53250321
>but that wouldn't matter if she took five goddamn minutes to check up on the people who were still alive
She saw Ulamog and a dead continent. There's nothing further for her to look for.
>She was one of the ones who imprisoned them in the first place, she KNOWS a resistance isn't pointless.
She imprisoned them with 40 years of work, oldwalker powers (the direct contribution to her despair and I quote is "no preparations [and] a thin shard of her old power"), and two ancient and powerful allies contributing to the plan. And they weren't literally on the plane and devouring it whole during those 40 years.
>If explaining his situation is irrelevant, then there really wasn't a point to him trying to reason with her
Again you misunderstand entirely because I'm not talking about that, all I am saying is from her perspective she cannot trust Sorin and see him as an asset in the current moment, therefore she cannot consider the current day to be just like the old days. You're going off on your own tangent.

>but that she had completely abandoned caring about or trying to help anyone other than herself, and that she shouldn't really have white in her colour id.
She's trying to get vengeance for her entire plane. To bear the memory of a nation, even more a whole world, and seek retribution for that ideal, is undeniably and tremendously white. Hell, the only reason she's red at all is because she's consumed with straight fury in addition to her (perceived) righteous indignation.

>>53250407
>corrupts best walker
>kills Jace's friends but still fucking him
>made deals with demons
its because she's gotten away with everything

>>53250407

>>53248280 here. it's mostly in that looking at her backstory i felt they went in the wrong direction with her.

they should've given her a more grey morality with white moral leanings instead of making her an obviously evil character when the rest of the group is not

>>53250438
>She saw Ulamog and a dead continent. There's nothing further for her to look for.
Objectively wrong. That's exactly what the Jacetice League did. And won.
>She imprisoned them with 40 years of work...
If she cared at all about the people on Zendikar, she would've at least checked in on them, and this would've all been avoided.
>she cannot trust Sorin
I don't trust my uncle, doesn't mean the next logical step is to beat the shit out of him. If she actually kept a cool head for one fucking minute, he'd have probably explained he was exhausted. She tried attacking him so he would see her as an equal, but was rightfully just showing him she's a nutter who needs some time to cool off.
>She's trying to get vengeance for her entire plane.
She abandoned that plane without even trying to do anything, she wasn't willing to bury the hatchet to work together to save it, she didn't even think of asking about Ugin, she just left everyone to die, then did her best to cause more death, destruction, and chaos, all in an attempt to get to Sorin. That's not white, that's sacrificing everything for her own goals, if anything that's black.

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>>53239988
which is why Jizzards started printing story cards, making art books, and putting cheesy quotes on flavor text

The problem is the lore right now sucks, and can easily be described as a comic book series.

>the fuckboy patrol goes to x to do y, get involved with z while they're dealing with y, and then the solution to y comes about and z is magically getting worse
>meanwhile there's an a that's also happening in the background and is going to be a major focal point of the second episode of this story arc, where a and y are resolved at the same time somehow
>and then once they deal with a, y, and z they find some justification to go to b, which will be the x of the next story arc

Just copy and paste in what happened in BFZ, SOI, and KLD and you've got yourself the basis of the recent Magic. Just sprinkle on some character crisis and story arcs involving characters who will achieve nothing other than give background to the plane and you've got yourself a Career in WotC.

And don't you doubt for a second that Amonkhet is going to be any different.

>>53250672
>Objectively wrong. That's exactly what the Jacetice League did. And won.
And yet "objectivity" has nothing to do with one's color identity, how one behaves following what one thinks and perceives does.
>If she cared at all about the people on Zendikar, she would've at least checked in on them, and this would've all been avoided.
She doesn't "care about the people on Zendikar" personally. She cares about their general existence and their ability to survive, but she is disconnected from the individual from 8000 years of solitude.
>I don't trust my uncle, doesn't mean the next logical step is to beat the shit out of him
Holy fucking shit I'm dropping this line because you just want to rant and are not fucking getting what I am saying or why. Your inability to process this context is wearisome.
>She abandoned that plane without even trying to do anything
From her perspective there is nothing else to do. See the first point: objectivity has no grounds in color identity.

>>53250975
>how one behaves following what one thinks and perceives does.
Yes, and she immediately abandoned everyone. She didn't spare a single thought for anyone still living on Zendikar.
She behaved almost entirely selfishly.
>She doesn't "care about the people on Zendikar" personally.
Caring about a large group is to care about their general existence, and vice versa. Which she doesn't, as she essentially abandoned everyone.
>she is disconnected from the individual from 8000 years of solitude
It's not even about any individuals, it's about every living thing on Zendikar, and her immediate willingness to just sod off on a personal vendetta instead of even making a token effort to help them. Also, the Eldrazi were imprisoned for 6000 years, not sure where you got 8000 from.
>Your inability to process this context is wearisome
I'm trying to make the point that if you don't trust someone, you just don't talk to them or rely on them, you don't immediately go full daddy issues and attack them.
As an addendum, this section is talking about their fight before she got chucked in the Helvault and Sorin took over looking after Zendikar, just in case you didn't realise.
>From her perspective there is nothing else to do
Anyone with white in their id would spare a thought towards trying to get a plan to stop the Eldrazi fucking the multiverse. She didn't. She just wanted revenge, and again, didn't even make a token effort to slow down the Eldrazi. I would admit you had a point and that she should have white if she had set up a couple of quick defenses for the people on Zendikar before luring the Eldrazi to Innistrad, but she was wholly unconcerned about anything but fucking off to plot revenge.

>>53251260
>Yes, and she immediately abandoned everyone. She didn't spare a single thought for anyone still living on Zendikar.
Her thought is vengeance for the dead, not fruitlessly trying to save the living.
>Caring about a large group is to care about their general existence, and vice versa. Which she doesn't, as she essentially abandoned everyone.
Everything she knows and has experienced tells her that Zendikar is doomed, and planes do not survive with free Eldrazi on them
Ugin never told her about single hedron alignments being able to lock down an Eldrazi titan.
>It's not even about any individuals, it's about every living thing on Zendikar, and her immediate willingness to just sod off on a personal vendetta instead of even making a token effort to help them
From her perspective, everything she knows tells her "a token effort" would be completely pointless. Thus all that is left is vengeance.
>I'm trying to make the point that if you don't trust someone, you just don't talk to them or rely on them, you don't immediately go full daddy issues and attack them.
And that's so far from the subject that I'm dropping this twice. Stop talking to yourself.
>Anyone with white in their id would spare a thought towards trying to get a plan to stop the Eldrazi fucking the multiverse
Her experiences tell her there is no plan to craft. There is nothing she could do on her own and she had no allies to call on. Your continued mutterings of "token efforts" is fucking idiotic because color identities are more than knee-jerk reactions to issues.

>>53246267
But they were only the villains for two sets.

>>53251562
>Her thought is vengeance for the dead, not fruitlessly trying to save the living.
I'll cede that point, but I still believe anyone who is even remotely white would at least try to start putting together even a fruitless plan to stop the Eldrazi, she knows it can be done, so there's no reason to just assume it can't be done again.
>Everything she knows and has experienced tells her that Zendikar is doomed
Yes, but that's no reason to just assume the multiverse is all doomed and thus worthless.
>Ugin never told her about single hedron alignments being able to lock down an Eldrazi titan.
Again, I find it hard to believe that she could help set up a plane spanning hedron network without picking up even the basics on how they work.
>everything she knows tells her "a token effort" would be completely pointless
Yeah, that's generally how token efforts go, but she didn't even care that people were still alive.
>so far from the subject that I'm dropping this twice
I'm talking about when she originally attacked Sorin, the reason she was imprisoned in the Helvault in the first place. You can't just stick your fingers in your ears and yell "OFF TOPIC" when I'm discussing a core part of the story.
>Her experiences tell her there is no plan to craft
If she actually believed that, she wouldn't have even had to drag the Eldrazi to Innistrad, she'd just run long enough to watch them fuck Innistrad anyway, or kill herself before they can kill her.
>color identities are more than knee-jerk reactions to issues.
She had plenty of opportunities to show any white behavior. So far she has shown red and maybe black. She's shown no effort to get help, offer help, or do anything to try and help anyone at all. She's just wanted Sorin to suffer, at the expense of everyone else.

>>53252105
>but I still believe anyone who is even remotely white would at least try to start putting together even a fruitless plan to stop the Eldrazi
A white identity does not imply one must aid others. Konda, the mad tyrant that he was, was mono W even though he didn't spare a single thought to the well being of his men.
Caring about the whole does not mean you have to righteously defend them in the face of apparently insurmountable odds. (regardless if it is surmountable in fact)
>she knows it can be done
WITH THREE OLDWALKERS AND 40 YEARS OF EFFORT THAT SHE DOESN'T HAVE
>Again, I find it hard to believe that she could help set up a plane spanning hedron network without picking up even the basics on how they work.
An aligned hedron network spaced around shaped leylines in the form of Ugin's planar binding rune resulting in an infinite loop of energy is not "the basics".
Also, she's not an animist and can't shape leylines.
>Yeah, that's generally how token efforts go, but she didn't even care that people were still alive.
There is no obligations to possibly suicidal token efforts in any color, despite your presumptions.
>I'm talking about when she originally attacked Sorin, the reason she was imprisoned in the Helvault in the first place. You can't just stick your fingers in your ears and yell "OFF TOPIC" when I'm discussing a core part of the story.
I know you're talking about something that has no relevance to the subject. I'm just not responding to it. There's nothing to say.
>She had plenty of opportunities to show any white behavior. So far she has shown red and maybe black. She's shown no effort to get help, offer help, or do anything to try and help anyone at all.
White is not exclusively the color of fucking aid. Vengeance is white. Righteous causes are white. Vengeance in the name of a righteous cause is tremendously white.

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>tfw Gix will never return to slap the ever loving shit out of the Gatewatch

>>53252244
Literally who?

>>53243038
No TSR did

>>53252451
Two-bit phyrexian demon that Urza jobbed to once and then killed off his beloved side characters before getting killed off himself.

>>53242308
Can you give me TL;DR on that fucking GRR Martin wall of text

>>53252451
http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Gix

>>53238844
Brazen was a bretty good story chapter.

>>53252512
Currynigger wants Theros: the Hindu edition to validate their skin color because they lack self respect, gets Artifacts and Airships instead of DESIGNATED, cries about it.

>>53240171
>kamigawa
never happening

>>53252230
>Caring about the whole does not mean you have to righteously defend them in the face of apparently insurmountable odds.
Maybe not, but it does mean you have to try to keep order, you know, the core identity characteristic of white characters?
>WITH THREE OLDWALKERS AND 40 YEARS OF EFFORT
She didn't even know anything about the mending, she just knew she was weaker and had no reason to believe that all other walkers were weaker too.
She does have 40 years, she was fine leaving Zendikar, and the multiverse is pretty big, big enough to find another world to set another trap for them.
>An aligned hedron network spaced around shaped leylines in the form of Ugin's planar binding rune resulting in an infinite loop of energy is not "the basics".
She worked for Ugin for 40 years and never once asked about how any of it worked then? She's sounding more and more like an edgy 12 year old.
>There is no obligations to possibly suicidal token efforts in any color
Not an obligation, I'm just saying that anyone in the story has something they'd make an effort for, generally fitting with the common colour descriptions; I.E. Whites would make an effort to try and keep order, and protect their system/community, Reds would make an effort based on whatever impulse they were feeling at the time, Blacks would make an effort to further their own advancement and goals.
Nahiri made no effort whatsoever to try and keep order in the multiverse, or protect any form of system, actually going as far as purposefully spreading chaos.
>something that has no relevance to the subject
Actions that directly caused the events we're discussing aren't relevant to the subject?
>White is not exclusively the color of fucking aid
No, it's the colour of order, and removing the threats to that order, I'm saying she had no righteous cause, she was just angry and decided she'd rather sacrifice everything else in the multiverse and cause untold death, chaos, and destruction, just so she can hurt Sorin.

>>53242891
Because they don't need to, why make a quality product when you can get away with a mediocre one? It's a waste of money and effort.

>>53244464
Dude kaladesh art is so fucking bad

>>53252805
>Maybe not, but it does mean you have to try to keep order, you know, the core identity characteristic of white characters?
White has more concepts within it than order. Unity, even-handedness, and most strikingly, absolute destruction are white qualities.
>She didn't even know anything about the mending, she just knew she was weaker and had no reason to believe that all other walkers were weaker too.
Doesn't matter as she doesn't have any other planeswalkers to call on.
>She does have 40 years, she was fine leaving Zendikar, and the multiverse is pretty big
Nahiri does not care about anywhere that isn't Zendikar. Being denied her beloved homeland leaves her with nothing.
White does not mean you have to care about EVERY community, holy shit.
>She worked for Ugin for 40 years and never once asked about how any of it worked then?
Actually, Ugin just gave her an instruction manual and left her to work for 40 years on her own. This is after continuously lying to her about the nature of the Eldrazi and what options they had available. Ugin is a dick.
>Nahiri made no effort whatsoever to try and keep order in the multiverse
Nahiri owes no allegiance to the greater multiverse, anymore than Sorin.
>Actions that directly caused the events we're discussing aren't relevant to the subject?
Indeed not, because I was never talking about the cause or anything relating to it in any degree. That's all you.
>No, it's the colour of order, and removing the threats to that order
To her understanding, her order was OBLITERATED. There is no value in attempting to salvage it, because she is convinced it cannot be salvaged. Sorin, who is WB I might add, comes to literally the same conclusion in the SOI story. He pursues vengeance in the name of Innistrad and retains his white identity. He does not try to rally a useless final stand against Emrakul. He rallies an assault on Nahiri.

>>53252805
And to continue on this last point
>I'm saying she had no righteous cause
Fucking revenge for Sorin's refusal to aid her plane in spite of his oath.
Whether it is a valid cause is debatable, but color identities don't give a single fucking shit about debates. In her perspective, it is valid, thus it is a righteous cause and inexorably white.

>>53238325
The original innistrad block has the least amount of story for any block in the game's history. It had a basic overlay and about 4 stories. The cards emitted so much flavor that even the most obtuse Timmy could understand the world. That is how masterful the first Innistrad is.

>>53238371
I love how the whole "Wolfir thing" and the "Gryphs" were basically retconned into "Yeah no, they all died out pretty fucking quick, I mean they were meant to be a big deal but apparently not lol."

>>53252992
>Unity
Order in a community
>even-handedness
A quality essential in keeping the status-quo, otherwise known as order
>absolute destruction
Only insofar as it serves the protection of order
I'm not saying order is the only concept in white, I'm saying that it's the main one, and that she has actively acted again pretty much everything white stands for.
>she doesn't have any other planeswalkers to call on
Logically, she must know there are others, and dismissing the notion of getting help in any way, even from the walkers she does know, is just stupid.
>Nahiri does not care about anywhere that isn't Zendikar
Sounds pretty black to me. White doesn't mean caring about EVERY community, it's about preserving the overall balance. A white character would still attempt to salvage what they could.
>Actually, Ugin just gave her an instruction manual
>Ugin just gave her an instruction manual
Then why in the everloving fuck can't she just build a new trap? I agree that Ugin is a dick, but if she at least has the information to build the trap that is proven to work, it can't be too hard to study and alter what is needed to reseal them.
>Nahiri owes no allegiance to the greater multiverse, anymore than Sorin
And yet Sorin was the one that tried to reunite the 3 of them to save the multiverse.
>I was never talking about the cause or anything relating to it in any degree
Okay then, I probably shouldn't have expected basic critical thinking skills from 4chan
>To her understanding, her order was OBLITERATED
Yeah, I guess the guys who talked to her all died before talking to her, it's not like she could sense the life in the stone everywhere else in the world or anything.
And again, Sorin tried to rally a fight against the Eldrazi, but got interrupted by Nahiri, whom he had to defend against, as she attacked him again.

>>53253011
>In her perspective, it is valid, thus it is a righteous cause and inexorably white
This is just ridiculous, just because her perspective is such that her line of thought is valid, doesn't make what she does right. How does this sound to you? "In Nicol Bolas' perspective, he is the rightful ruler of the multiverse, thus his is a righteous cause and inexorably white."
Perspectives can be wrong, and if you're arguing that anything is righteous just because the person fighting for it believes it is, there isn't really a point in arguing with you.

>>53253024
>The cards emitted so much flavor that even the most obtuse Timmy could understand the world
Actually it was more because of how much a cliche storm Innistrad was, since little Timmy is most likely already familiar with werewolves, vampires, village idiots and flying 3/2s for 1 mana

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>>53242995
ART NOW

>>53254416
But we don't have any drawfriends

>>53253501
>This is just ridiculous, just because her perspective is such that her line of thought is valid, doesn't make what she does right. How does this sound to you? "In Nicol Bolas' perspective, he is the rightful ruler of the multiverse, thus his is a righteous cause and inexorably white."
That'd work if it was Bolas's actual perspective. To remind you again, Konda, one of the most self-serving and greediest assholes in all history who cares about literally NOTHING but himself, is monowhite because he believed he represents every living human at once and, since he was in a position of leadership, he's right enough to be white.

>>53253492
>Order in a community
No, it means the existence of a community at all.
>A quality essential in keeping the status-quo, otherwise known as order
No, it means fairness to all devoid of bias.
>Only insofar as it serves the protection of order
Or is just purest destruction, such as Planar Collapse, Planar Cleansing, Akroma's Vengeance, and numerous similar white cards that just fuck everything.
>Logically, she must know there are others
No oldwalker would trust random walkers.
>Sounds pretty black to me
Black doesn't align itself to concepts and locations.
>Then why in the everloving fuck can't she just build a new trap?
Cause it takes 40 fucking years.
>And yet Sorin was the one that tried to reunite the 3 of them to save the multiverse.
Sorin didn't try to "reunite" Nahiri at all.
>Yeah, I guess the guys who talked to her all died before talking to her, it's not like she could sense the life in the stone everywhere else in the world or anything.
Ugin had convinced her that standing against the Eldrazi is pointless, therefore any "token effort" is fucking useless, and colors do not force positive action.
>And again, Sorin tried to rally a fight against the Eldrazi
No he didn't. He literally hired the vampires for revenge and EXPLICITLY not a last stand, he told them it wasn't a last stand because a last stand is pointless. How did you miss that? He openly declares "this world is ruined" long before crossing Nahiri's path.

>>53254896
I haven't read much about kamigawa and can't really find much about it, but I think you're talking about Takeshi Konda, who apparently imprisoned a spirit just so he could try and watch over his people forever, and make sure they prospered. I can only get information from the official site and the wiki about him though.
>>53255121
>existence of a community
A community requires at least some kind of order to even be called a community.
>fairness to all devoid of bias
I never said it wasn't, I said it's essential in keeping the status quo
>purest destruction
Oh yeah, just like Breaking Point, Damnation, Deadly Tempest, and numerous other black cards that just fuck everything.
I see what you're saying, but destruction isn't just a white thing, it's in every colour. White has a lot more cards that grant protection and buffs, you can't just ignore the majority of its cards to suit your argument.
>No oldwalker would trust random walkers
Fair point, good thing she knows Ugin then.
>Black doesn't align itself to concepts and locations
Guess I'd better get rid of all my swamps, looks like black is now the only colour on the wheel with no concepts attached to it too.
>Cause it takes 40 fucking years
Yes, and? I didn't say a new trap on Zendikar.
>Sorin didn't try to "reunite" Nahiri at all
Yes he did, he went and found Ugin, who told him to go get Nahiri, but when he went to get her, she was gone.
>Ugin had convinced her that standing against the Eldrazi is pointless
Yes, just like they didn't stand up the Eldrazi and imprison them before.
>He literally hired the vampires for revenge
He hired them to get rid of Nahiri because she was fucking/fucked everything up. I was talking about him trying to get the 3 of them together (probably using the Jacetice League too) to get the Eldrazi imprisoned again.

>>53255970
I noticed I'm getting a bit sarcastic with my replies now, sorry. I'm trying to see your point of view, but I still feel everything you are saying is evidence of her being white, are things that can be applied to most non-white characters.
I know neither of us is going to actually convince the other, this is just a random argument on the internet, but it's no excuse for me being a dick instead of just sticking to facts, so again, sorry about that.

When it was less about the word building and started only being about THE ONE BIG DEFINING EVENT OVER AND OVER.

Also when the art direction of every set seemed to blur together. Innistrad seems to only get a base because they have a lot of blues.

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>planeswalker spark gets "fixed"
>MtG lore goes to shit after Time Spiral block
>laughing_oldwalkers.jpg

At least Alara was pretty cool.

>>53243282
>>play Aurekdos
>>swing sacrafice all half of noneldrazi creatures
>>after combat create eldrazi scions with ingest and lifelink equal to the number of creatures you sacraficed
>there's additional combat step after this
Well that'd be bullshit