/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53218883
>How could the Garou possibly come out as the victors in the 2nd Impergium?

They can't. Expect an embarrassing ass pull.

>>53218866

It was a stupid ass decisions

>>53218892

There's two ways I can see it happening: either Elricsson was the one dictating it had to happen, because it gave him a way of inserting more LARP related bullshit in the books or they just didn't really want to spend any money on artists.

>>53218883
>How could the Garou possibly come out as the victors in the 2nd Impergium?
Completely impossible.

>>53218943
shut up faglord

>>53218916
Elricson has nothing to do with OPP's development other than currently having approval power over everything. The photoshop stuff started before Paradox/NuWW bought the IP.

>>53218954
Don't call him a fag you faggot.

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>>53218941

> I know the Malkavian model really well, she's super chill

You part of the LARP scene?

>>53218912
>>53218943

So what's the outcome then? World-wide humanity finds out about supernaturals? And I'm not talking about governments and the like, but ordinary people.

>>53218892
Money, I'd assume. V20's photoshop iconic characters were supposed to be a shout out to fans (like, I know the Malkavian model really well, she's super chill), but after that, who knows.

We don't know what kind of margins these things pull in, despite being top sellers on DTRPG, especially with the recent trainwrecks of M20, Beast in its entirety, and Secrets of the Covenants and the sheer time it takes ANYTHING to get completed beyond 'you guys gave us hundreds of thousands of dollars as a kickstarter!' What non-photoshop art we've gotten since has been hit or miss, as well. So I chalk it up to money.

Repeating my reply here just in case.

wouldn't an attempt at 2nd impergium crash and burn like 5 dozen different ways? hell pentex had a drug that block delirium, right? just get the government to set up a secret taskforce and now pentex can be the hero all werewolves get fucked over and pentex doesn't even have to expend much more manpower.

>>53218974
I LARP, yes. Have since 2004, met many of the devs through either working as a coordinator or storyteller or other position in the Camarilla/Mind's Eye Society, though I've mostly backed off from the organizations and been doing troupe games for the past 5 years or so. I run a Masquerade game, with about 25-30 people on average, we have a chill group that has a lot of fun.

In fact, we just did an event where everyone played a Prince and we got to address the Withering, and some players got some Princes of cities killed by doing things that developed during RP. Including Francois Villon of Paris. Fun times.

>>53218974
>So what's the outcome then?

Wolf skin throw rugs are going to become the new fashion.

>>53218974
Hmmm, it would depend if the other splats are involved. If not, then the Apocalypse as described by the Garou would probably happen. If not, i'm pretty sure the Technocracy would just wipe them out and mind-wipe any mortal who knew about it.

>>53219016
Also, I realize I should put my name back on, I'm here fairly regularly.

>>53219060
fag

>>53218883
>>53218912
>>53218943
>>53218986
>How could the Garou possibly come out as the victors in the 2nd Impergium?

>Black Furies - [. . .] they decide their purpose is to attack the Weaver, by destroying the structure of civilization, regardless of the millions of human lives lost in the process.

>Bone Gnawers - [. . .] Their Apocalyptic method is to unleash a disease that kills a billion humans within 2 months.

>Wendigo - [. . .] Outraged, a group of Wendigo use the Umbra to board and hijack a Nuclear Sub, and nukes Buffalo.

>>53219060
The LARPfag makes its appearance

>>53219085
With Swedish Dracula in charge tabletop players will be LARP fags too...

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>>53219016

What's it like, LARP for WoD/VtM?

It just seems weird as a concept to me. I can understand getting around someone's table and playing a game or something, but dressing up and really getting into the part is too weird for me.

Where do you get your costumes from anyway?

And is there any footage of this? Or do people shun being recorded at these things?

>>53219042

According to the cliffnotes we got from WoD Berlin 2017, Pentex and Technocratic Union are involved with the 2nd Inquisition, which also has the support of various government agencies, so yeah, I think it's safe to say other splats are gonna get involved.

could all the fags please leave

this place is for faggots only

>>53219077
>>Wendigo - [. . .] Outraged, a group of Wendigo use the Umbra to board and hijack a Nuclear Sub, and nukes Buffalo.
>nukes Buffalo
>all of humanity dies

>>53219137
They're helping!

>>53219137
You can't just launch an ICBM.

>>53219110
It's sad we're going to be transformed into the faggiest of the faggots.

>>53219178
Actually you can, it's a myth that they can only be launched with codes obtained from a presidential order. Especially on a missile sub, you'd just need the launch keys from the senior crew.

>>53219202
We will be the faggiest fags to ever fag

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>>53219067
Yup. 100% bonafide.

>>53219085
Yup. I'm here often, I just forget to stick my name on it.

>>53219111
It's a combination of improv theatre and game, is the easiest way to put it. Different LARPs do things a little differently, but a lot of people who LARP here are amateur actors, enjoy acting and are creative individuals. We rent a large room in a convention center, and that gives us access to function space like nice little seating nooks, a patio and such that we can use for breakout space so it works well. People just get up, move around, act out their characters through mannerisms, sometimes accents, props and such.

So we get things like the suit-wearing Assamite Vizier who was a WW1 veteran; the big bearded Irish Brujah who owns most of the blue collar bars in town; the ex-opera singer Toreador who was a drop-and-Embrace; the skull-motif biker Gangrel chick, or the Daughter of Cacophony local bubblegum pop star. We have a variety of concepts which makes the game shine, I think.

Many of the players wear things that they may already have, we also have a couple of seamstresses in the game who take commissions, and we try to push the 'Masquerade' concept, so we don't get 'lace and frock coats' type stuff unless there's like, an IC masquerade ball.

I have a couple of videos, but I haven't shared them; I won't without peoples' permission. If I get permission I'll get a link. Here's an edited pic of me and one other player, playing as a Tremere Elder (male, me) and a Toreador Elder, for our Halloween event from last year where we blew up the entirety of the Tremere clan. This was special event costume, for example.

Every LARP I've ever seen has been a huge drama fest where a single clique has all the fun while everyone else is left getting screwed. It's also a lot about hooking up, like way more than it should be.

>>53219223
As far as STing, LARP tends to have a 'players drive the plot' angle, but my staff of 4 others and me build plot, we have a 'living World of Darkness' where, if players seek them out, they can interact with other supernaturals, other vampire NPCs and such. A typical session might be the Prince calling court to deal with plot stuff going on (recent events include the revival of Troile and an alliance of Baali/Brujah loyal to her trying to spread Infernalism; hunters reacting to bombings; a Setite pushing drugs and endangering the Masquerade while getting rich; and a Sabbat secessionist strike team in the city), as well as players' personal plot (like the two Brujah refugees from a Baali-conquered Athens, Greece; or the Anarchs trying NOT to get hit by a pogrom due to Camarilla policy changing; or the one Brujah trying to make peace with/become one with her Beast without losing her Humanity.). This upcoming game is a Toreador hosted party, as the Daughters got inducted into the Camarilla officially as a Bloodline of the Toreador at the Grand Conclave from a couple of weeks ago.

>>53219283
Yeah, this happens. It's totally dependent on the group. We have a lot of dating/married couples and very, very little drama, which I'm thankful for. It's been one of the blessings of being out of the MES.

>>53219223
THICC

LARPing is for losers who like to play dress-up

>>53219319
>LARPing is for losers who like to play dress-up
And tabletop if for losers who like to sit on their ass.

>>53219333
I'd rather sit on my ass than play dress-up

>>53219342
That's fair, its not for everyone, but don't lose sight of the fact that everyone who likes these games is a fucking faggot.

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>>53219223
>>53219305

How old are most people involved in this?

>>53219283

Isn't that the case for every bigger/clique gathering? People looking up other people who share their interests and wanting to bang them?

>>53219362
But not all of us fag equally

>>53219283
How many gothopotamuses in your local scene?

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>>53219409
>gothopotamuses

like dis?

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A typical WoD LARP session.

>>53219077
you are assuming that they can get luck into success when EVERY other supernatural group has some kind of seer and something that would murder at least a major portion of humanity wouldn't set the off. the balance of secrecy would call down a curbstomp on them.

oh and wouldn't ALL of these ideas strengthen the wyrm to an insane level? you know, the nightmare force that the wolves are suppose to be fighting?

Hey at least he isn't getting his hands on scion. I can still get my urban fantasy fix from over there.

>>53219392
Our youngest player is 18, the daughter of a couple of players whose work doesn't allow them to get to game any more. This is the youngest we allow due to our social contract and potential legal issues, without direct parental supervision on site.

Our oldest player is in his mid-40s, the average age is 25-35 though. Most of us are just everyday people who like Vampire the Masquerade (well, WoD in general really; when vampire ends in January, Apocalypse will be picked up and fill the spot).

If you want to see more pictures, let me know; I can do some editing of some stuff to remove faces and pop up an album somewhere. To be fair, our LARP is a lot more chill than many LARPs you'll see, so... it's always a YMMV thing.

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>>53219499

Sure, edit the photos and put them up on imgur or something.

Anyway, where do these things take place anyway? Europe? North America? Are you all from the same place or do you travel around for the occasion?

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>>53219429

>>53219392
The problem is when one of those people is an ST who uses their position to put players (almost always female) in compromising positions. The power dynamic is real and I've seen a lot of creepers both players and MES storytellers use it to goad sex from impressionable newbies.

>>53219077
are these the only tribes mentioned?

Mages need to be nerfed in 5e

There is no other way

>>53219568
Is that nigga wearing a skirt?

>>53218883

1. Vampires all focused on bullshit in the middle east
2. Mages decide to shift to a deep-umbra footing
3. Humanity in general gets severely retarded
4. All the wraiths their cullings create somehow decide not to fuck the Garou in their collective assholes

Let's face it, the second Impergium movement will either fail or change Werewolf into a desperate horror game where you're on the run from everybody. Actually, that Idea might be kinda cool.

>>53219620
Don't worry, everything will be nerfed to be more LARP friendly.
Things like all the elders being called off and other things that seem to lower the power and ability of vampires in the setting seem to support this.

>>53219620
It's probably going to happen.

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>>53218883
This image triggers me so much.
Does the vamp lady have a Siamese twin growing out of her back?
Why is the chick in the middle not casting a reflection?
Where's the stall door?
Is that a man's hand? What's he doing in the ladies room?

>>53219620
That'll never happen, mostly because there won't be a Mage 5th Edition. The whole problem with VtM 5th is that it answers a question no one asked; The 20th anniversary editions continued the metaplots past ToJ already and even polished up the mechanics. Ripping the guts out of everything and putting someone who hates the urban fantasy genre (Ken Hite) in charge under the direction of a LARPer (Dracula) is a recipe for failure. The only use 5th Edition has is as the mechanical underpinning for whatever game Paradox is going to make with the property.

>>53219573

Why don't the players just tell the STs to fuck off when it becomes obvious what they're angling for?

>>53219620

Mages don't need to be nerfed, you dumb fucking imbecile.

>>53219645
Leather kilt.

>>53219672
It's a Hollow Mekhet. Their reflections are sentient and malicious toward them.

>>53219685
A normie mage could kill a fucking methuselah of course they need to be nerfedd

>>53219682
Nerds aren't very good at asserting themselves. In fact they are very easy to push around and usually desperate for approval from peers.
>Source, have pushed around nerds for ages

>>53219685
No, they don't.

They will be anyway. :^)

>>53219557
I'm in the US. When I was part of the Camarilla/MES, I'd travel a lot for games (to nearby cities for one-day games, or other places like New Orleans, Chicago, Nashville, and others for conventions). We don't do much travel as a troupe game, which means we're not part of a larger organization of interconnected games. We have a few people that travel from a couple of cities over on average about 30-45 minutes away, to come play, but most of us are in the same city.

I'll pop the link once i'm done editing. Feel free to ask questions as you will.

>>53219682
Because they're the STs. Most LARPers are sniveling people pleaser personalities who see the imaginary authority conveyed on the ST and will treat them as godlike presence so long as their character whims are met, just feed the queen bee a bone every once and awhile and she'll keep the rest of the troupe on your side even if you're a serial manipulator and try to socially blackmail others into sex.

>>53219620
Faggots who try and run crossovers need to deal with their own fuckups.

>>53219682
Sadly LARP tends to attract people with social issues, and it can be hard for them to >>53219682
push back against that.

>>53219746
But crossovers are fun so why do mages need to shit on everyone?

>>53219734
Do you do much NWoD LARPing? Do you think the 2e material is in anyway viable for a LARP?

>>53219763
Just don't let a faggot play a mage in your crossover and you'll be fine.

>>53219763
>why do mages need to shit on everyone?

Because that's their kink

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>>53219557
>>53219392
>>53219111
>>53218974
There's just something kind of sad and hilarious about all of these

>>53219772
There's rules for nWoD LARPing, just none for CoD. They're still shit though, nearly all LARP systems are garbage, you're better off just playing it narratively with the ST running the mechanics ad hoc, like a Fiasco game.

>>53219763

Wizards are wizards. So of course they're going to take a massive dump on vampires and werewolves.

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>>53219763
>crossovers are fun

>>53219574
They're cropped from ye olde Apocalypse splat and aren't part 5e (that I know)

>>53219810
>narratively with the ST running the mechanics ad hoc, like a Fiasco game.
In my experience this requires far more experienced STs than you can typically wrangle for a game. A concrete, even if shitty, system keeps everyone on the same page, and also allows some modicum of fairness in PvP conflict. Other wise its just whoever the ST likes wins most of the time. Unless there is some other way to keep Nepotism in check, freeform LARP can go fuck it self.

>>53219697
Kilts are only kilts if they're the traditional tartan and you've got manly legs. Otherwise you're a nigga in a skirt.

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>>53219763
>crossovers are fun

>vampire uses celerity
>lel friction curse

truly mages are the best

>>53219763
>crossovers are fun
If you don't actually like the themes of any of the game lines and just want to play a supernatural being then pick a different system, WoD is very obviously not made for crossovers.

>>53219715
That sort of explains only one of the many things that are wrong with this drawing.

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>>53219772
I have done Requiem, Forsaken, Awakening and Lost as LARP. It works okay; the mechanics are a little weird and promote hyper-comptetency but they can be fun. I am not sure how well 2e would translate, but I admit I haven't read everything in 2e. The core mechanic could/would work, it would just be a matter of adapting TT things like always, since LARP is a real visual/distance based.

Heres a pic of me as my Invictus Duchagne Daeva, and his Au Pair and his Knightly escort from a game.

>>53219897
>WoD is very obviously not made for crossovers.

Except you're wrong

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>>53219877
Not if you're an o.g. nigga

>>53219909
If you're doing a Troupe game what sort of location rental are you paying? And how much do you collect from the players/how often are games? Or is it just funded by someone with an actual good job? I've mostly only played with college students, which are basically all hobos, I'm curious about how locations work out logistically.
Do you decorate rooms and have set locations that people go to for different IC areas or do you typically leave it more freeform?

>>53219958
>implying that will even make a difference

>>53219923
>Except you're wrong
This is the point where you try to argue against power levels, clashing themes, mage dickery fucking other supernaturals and focus getting completely all over the place.
Go!

Mage > Werewolf > Vampire >>> Changeling

??????

>>53219923
>totally different power levels, to the extent that some splats can operate as better versions of other slats
>entirely different themes
>entirely different goals
>some splats are explicitly written as not getting along
>can't even do anything during the day if you have a vampire
I know you can handwave/houserule a lot of this away (although for some slats the power level thing is pretty unavoidable) but at that point just play GURPS or FATE with vampires and werewolves.

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>>53219763
>But crossovers are fun

>>53220028
Archmage > Caine > Antediluvian > Vampire(Elder/Methuselah) = Mage(Master) > Mage > Werewolf > Vampire >>> Changeling

>>53220068
Control > Archmage

Remember that the Technocracy is run by a hivemind of Archmagi whose power is unified.

>>53220096
As a group, yeah. Individually not so much.

>>53220096
The most powerful of Archmasters aren't affiliated with either the Union or the Traditions.

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>>53219966
We are all working people, so we request a donation of $5 per person per game though most people pop in $10, so overflow goes to pay for set dressing and props and things. We got a good deal with the hotel we're at, right after the finished remodeling, we have a 44x22 or a 22x22 square foot meeting space, depending on our needs, along with any attendant function space in the conference center (which includes about four smaller sitting areas, a patio/smoking area). We pay $150 or $200 (smaller room or larger room) for all day due to the fact we rent it twice a month, 1st and 3rd Saturdays, and we got in right after their remodel. Sometimes we share space with people and we double up on what we deem the Masque-fucking-rade. We have had nothing but positive remarks, even when we had a crazy Sabbat gangrel show up in full wolf face while we were sharing space with a darts tournament. People had no bad reaction to the costuming at all.

Here's a Brujah I have played on an off, blue collar guy who was involved in the Mine Wars in Eastern KY in the 30s.

>>53220156
As far as rooms/deco, we nominate the main room the 'main meeting space' (like, for this upcoming game, it'll be the private lounges at the city opera house due to the event going on), and we'll nominate the breakout spaces as other locations since they're on more of a 'only need to exist as necessary'. When we played on campus, we'd have specific rooms set up as specific areas, but the only viable campus location doesn't have a gaming association, and it was a bit of a problem due to a couple of medical issues with a couple of players as well.

I will be back with a link to a bigger collection of pictures, and I'll check on the questions later on. Gotta head to Lowe's to get deck stain, yay spring/summer projects.

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>>53220156
I see that we both shop at Ross

>>53220096
>archmage > archmage

wat

>>53219485
Here's hoping we get those cores sometime in the next month.

>>53220096
They prefer the term Archscientist. And its debatable since high level Technocrats tend to suffer from Clarity (basically, to Static Genius what Marauder is to Dynamic Avatar; think Threat Null).

Besides, aren't Aswadim more powerful then Archmages and Archscientists? I know that the anti-Christ in setting is basically a very powerful Nephandi Aswadim of Entropy, and that summoning him almost immediately leads to Descent and hell on earth.

So in Ascension do any of these guys know that none of what they're doing is actually science or magic?

>>53220284
No. If they did they couldn't do it because they don't really believe. Except the shitty hollow ones who just believe in what it actually is, chaos magic. They are the worst group and the most boring part of the setting.

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>>53219997

Anybody have any experience playing Demon the Descent? My group is starting a game next week and I'm putting my character sheet together.

Right now my idea is a sort of Jason Borne/John Wick/History of Violence character. When he was an angel he was a hardass destroyer but he barely survived his escape and is living as a club owner while trying to rebuild his power.

>>53220306
That's really what kills Ascension for me. That there's no weight behind anything. It's just a bunch of delusions.

>>53219557

"We're just like you, really, except we listen to Cradle of Filth."

>>53220197
Maybe? I find cheap stuff I would use for costume and snap it up when I have disposable income.

>>53220284
It's everything. Consensual Reality is magic or science, or something else entirely, depending on what you believe in.

>>53220508
Grow your imagination some more, anon.

>>53220250
>aren't Aswadim more powerful then Archmages and Archscientists

They're all technically the same thing. There is no better or worse, just different Paradigms.
That said, the most powerful Archmages haven't been a part of the Union despite them being the most widespread.

>>53219697
>no tartan pattern
>no sporran
It's a skirt.

>>53220599
Again, the most powerful of Archmages aren't affiliated with any single faction. They're citizens of the cosmos. They're too evolved to comprehend.

>>53220577
>Grow your imagination some more, anon.
What, and a imagine a deeper meaning behind stuff that ultimately means nothing? Sorry if I prefer games with mages to have actual magic in them and not just a bunch of guys playing pretend.

>>53220114
There is no individuality left in Control

>>53220636
>What, and a imagine a deeper meaning behind stuff that ultimately means nothing?
There is meaning, a whole lot of it. It just depends on what you believe in.

>Sorry if I prefer games with mages to have actual magic in them and not just a bunch of guys playing pretend.
The definition of magic varies from fiction to fiction. Ascension has legitimate magic.

>>53220152
for example? Niggers like Voormas (who was a part of the Traditions for a time) or al-Aswad (who is beyond definition)?

>>53220657
Not what I was getting at. Control wouldn't be able to tackle Exemplars, as an example.

>>53220661
>There is meaning
How? None of what you believe is true. It's nothing. All that matters is what you do with it, but that's not the meaning I'm talking about.

>Ascension has legitimate magic
It literally does not. It's all a sham based on your paradigm.

>>53220760
>None of what you believe is true
Belief is truth though anon.

>people pretend to be characters who use magic
>characters pretend to be people who use magic

whoa mage is fucking deep
really makes you think

>Three editions running concurrently
Who looked at this and thought it was okay?

>>53220916
20th will end as soon as everything that's currently in the pipe is out.

>>53220805
Not really.

>>53220916
>Who looked at this and thought it was okay?
White Wolf's bank accounts

>>53220971
Except that it literally is in Mage.

>>53220760
>It literally does not

Your idea of magic doesn't correlate to every other fictional setting. The magic in Ascension is legit.

>>53220987
No, it literally does not. Isn't the whole point that "mages" get the power to alter reality and then filter that power through their paradigm? So any "magic" a person may have is just their specific delusion, watering down the real breadth of their power through a sham.

>>53221044
You're an idiot.

>>53221044
No its traditional to the letter Chaos Magick. You sound retarded, because you for sure have no idea what you are talking about.

>>53220984
Which is retarded. Consensual Reality is very retarded and cheap.

>>53221044
There's nothing delusional about it. It's your goddamn belief. There is no right and wrong.

Magic is magic
Science is science

It's not invalidated whatsoever, you're just not grasping the concept of Consensual Realityl

>>53221061
So because it's based off of a real life sham, that makes it not a sham in the game?

>>53221068
>Consensual Reality is very retarded and cheap

I disagree!

>>53221087
Yes, that is pretty much the concept of every game ever made. Vampires also aren't real, in case you weren't aware.

>>53221081
>There's nothing delusional about it
Except you are literally deluding yourself. Literally.

>Delusion: An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality

>>53221116
Reality is consensual, so you're not deluded at all. It's what you believe it is.

No right
No wrong

>>53221116
No one is this stupid.

You're clearly a troll.

>>53221116
That definition requires the real world constructs and axioms that simply don't exist in mage.

>>53221116

how high on the autism spectrum are you?

>>53221124
>>53221137
>>53221141
Sorry, but does the "magic" in Ascension not revolve around clinging to your beliefs despite the fact that they aren't accepted by the Consensus? Or to put it another way, that they aren't "generally" accepted?

So it's all delusions.

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>>53221178

>you

>>53221115
Right, but vampires just are, in these games. They don't require shams to exist in Masquerade.

>>53221207
Literally the entire metaplot of the game is some weird hand waved jyhad controlled through generations of blood. There are a ton of Shams in Masquerade.

>>53221178
Autistic indeed.

Magic is magic, get over it.

>>53221225
I meant literally.

>>53221236
Its not a sham though, it is literally real because of how the universe functions in game.

>>53221195
>>53221234
This is disappointing. So you're just going to dismiss me because the kinds "magic" in Ascension are all just delusions? I've backed up my arguments, but now that you can't back up yours you're resorting to ad hominem.

>>53221278
>I've backed up my arguments
Except you haven't

Nobody wants to bother with you because you don't seem to grasp how Ascension functions.

>>53221278
You've 'backed up your arguments' with things from the real world that have nothing to do with the game. There is not a static laws of physics in mage. Its not the same reality we live in, despite appearances. You've backed up nothing except your own autism and misunderstanding of the core conceits of the game.

>>53221207

they literally do, everything in the WoD cosmology is dependent on faith, Mage just goes deeper into the concept than other systems do

>>53220096

Control doesn't exist

>>53221250
It's literally just a bunch of delusions. You cling to those beliefs and those beliefs go against what is commonly accepted. What's believed is real, right? In the game, that is. So if the consensual belief of humanity is that "magic" isn't real, doesn't that mean that it isn't real? It's not a one way thing that works in favor of mages, obviously, because paradox. It's just mages forcing their delusions on the truth. They're practically molesting the universe.

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>>53221356

>>53221287
>>53221307
So in World of Darkness, the definition of "delusions" is different or something?

>>53221356
>In the game, that is. So if the consensual belief of humanity is that "magic" isn't real, doesn't that mean that it isn't real? It's not a one way thing that works in favor of mages, obviously, because paradox. It's just mages forcing their delusions on the truth. They're practically molesting the universe.
Mages aren't doing anything special or unique though, literally every person does it. Mages are just more refined about it. The core conceits of sceince of the masses is more delusional if anything.

>>53220518
Man IT Crowd was great.

>Magecucks getting BTFO

what a time to be alive

>>53221380
You applying a concept from the real world that doesn't apply, so yes. In the real world believing you are a vampire is a delusion. This is not the case in World of Darkness.

>>53221356

There is no truth. That's not an excuse to be a cunt, though.

>>53221353
Exactly.

>>53221356
Except magic is magic and it exists as it does.

>>53221398
>falseflagging

Here's your (You)

>>53221374
How am I wrong? Belief defines reality. Belief is truth. The commonly held belief is that magic isn't real. So it's the truth. This is the logic of the anon I originally argued with. The magic of mages, by definition, are just delusions. Beliefs that go against what is commonly accepted. That is, the Consensus. The entire mechanic of Paradox is a thing because the "magic" of mages goes against the Consensus, the common belief of humanity. Paradox is the universe trying to keep mages from forcing their literal,read my lips, LITERAL delusions upon it.

How is that wrong? I don't want to be wrong. Educate me.

>>53221385
>Mages aren't doing anything special or unique though
They can actively do it.

> The core conceits of sceince of the masses is more delusional if anything
How? They believe it, so it's true.

>>53221460
Can it be called delusion when mages are right?

>>53221480
>How? They believe it, so it's true.
The Hermetics believe in magic, therefore it's also true.

Nothing is right or wrong.

>>53221460
Belief is truth. It doesn't matter which is the dominant belief, it's still true.

Magic is magic, it's real and existent because of yours truly.

>>53221460
You are still caught up on there being some sort of static 'truth'.

>>53221460
Listen. If it exists, it's true. Magic exists in Ascension. It's real deal magic.

>>53221460
And the ability to impose one's worldview onto reality in spite of the Consensus is somehow "not magic" because....?

By your logic Awakening magic isn't magic either, just rearranging the symbols that make up the underpinnings of reality so that they do what they would've done anyway in that situation.

>>53221548
He doesn't seem to understand that magic varies from fiction to fiction. He's trying to determine something which cannot be determined as a whole.

>>53221460

the people who believe in absolute truth are the ones who are delusional, whats so hard to understand about that?

>>53221504
>>53221519
>>53221520
It's still just delusions. Beliefs that go against what is commonly accepted. And if what is commonly accepted is that magic isn't real, how is that not true? They might make their "magic" "real" by supplanting the consensus by raping the universe, but that doesn't really change the consensus. The consensus, and therefore the truth of humanity, is that magic isn't real. It only becomes "real" in the delusions of mages. This is what causes Paradox, the clashing and then forcing of beliefs.

>>53221558

it reminds me of a friend who argued with me about ghosts absolutely not being able to touch the living, as if all ghosts from different myths and fiction were equal

>>53221636
Holy fuck you're a moron

>>53221636
Delusion itself, in our world, relies on the fact that there is in fact a static reality that exists in an objective fashion. That definition just has no meaning or place when talking about consensual reality.

>>53221548
>By your logic Awakening magic isn't magic either,
Not really, because there is no "truth by consensus" crap in Awakening.

>>53221636
That doesn't invalidate magic, exactly. Everyone is technically delusional to begin with.

Everything is false, and everything is true.
It just depends on your Paradigm.

The Hermetics aren't practicing phony magics by way of reality warping, they're practicing legitimate sorcery because their belief makes it real.

>>53221663
>Delusion itself, in our world, relies on the fact that there is in fact a static reality that exists in an objective fashion
Not really, it still works here because it details "beliefs that go against what is commonly accepted by reality".

>>53221677
>The Hermetics aren't practicing phony magics by way of reality warping, they're practicing legitimate sorcery because their belief makes it real.
Not to mention static sorcery also exists along side true magick, but it exists in the cracks of belief.

>>53221703
I think your dictionary is as retarded as you appear to be.
de·lu·sion·al
adjective
characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

Doesn't have anything to do with commonly held beliefs at all, though the persecution of it might.

>>53221677
But the magic is still a delusion, because it goes against what is commonly accepted by reality. The Consensus.

>>53221725
>Doesn't have anything to do with commonly held beliefs at all,
But in Ascension it does, because reality is defined by commonly held beliefs. The Consensus, in other words.

>>53221399
>believing you are a vampire is a delusion. This is not the case in World of Darkness.

Technically speaking, BELIEVING you're a vampire can be a delusion if you're just a normal human. Or are you going to say that if some goth believes really hard in her larp persona she turns into a full-fledged Kindred?

>>53221758
That's not what I'm saying, but it does illustrate my point. Fantastical beliefs like that are only delusional by their nature in our world.

>>53221733
I guess? But the Consensus itself is also a delusion.

It also doesn't invalidate magic, or anything really.
It exists, it's real.

>>53221794
The Consensus isn't a delusion. It can't be. It's not contradicted by reality. It IS reality, and Mages just have the ability to supplant it with their own reality, their paradigm.

>>53221834
It's the reality enforced by tyrants that goes against what came before.

No Paradigm is devoid of delusion in and of itself.

>>53221834
I think the issue here is that you're convinced magic isn't magic because the Consensus goes against it.

That's not how Ascension works.

>>53221865
Also, the Consensus *could* shift again. It's not likely to currently, but there are places still where it's actually pretty weak.

>>53221780
>Fantastical beliefs like that are only delusional by their nature in our world.
But she's not a vampire. She's never been embraced, never seen a vamp, never seen a ghoul, never even been in the same city as a Kindred. But she *really* believes she's a vampire. That doesn't make her a vampire, that makes her delusional.

>>53221178
>>53221278
>>53221356
>>53221460
>>53221636
>>53221703
>>53221794

We'll, no. In the context of the game It creates real world effects that are observable to others.

The idea behind it is that people are inseparable from the idea of cause and effect. So, to work magic, they need to "cause" it somehow. As they become progressively more enlightened and in tune (represented in game by growth in the Arete stat.) Mages (though not technocrats) can work magic without their instruments.

It's not a delusion, it's a set of training wheels. Paradox is what happens when a mage supplants conventional reality with their own will. For a moment, there exists two competing, mutually exclusive realities. Paradox is simply the default reality biting back.

>>53221865
Doesn't matter how it came to be or what was before it. It's the consensual belief of humanity. The truth of humanity, because they believe it.

>yuo don't understand, subjective reality objectively exists!

What did magecucks meme by this?

>>53221895
Funnily enough, the truth of mass humanity doesn't cancel out the other truths.

So I don't know what you're even getting at.

>>53221886
>It's not a delusion
Except it is, because it's a belief that goes against what is commonly accepted by reality.

>>53221884
Yes, but that delusion has nothing to do with mages or magic or even the consensus, it has to do with some one being objectively wrong despite the world not having any real truth.

>>53221932
What is commonly accepted by reality hasn't gone further than the asteroid belt.

The point here is that magic isn't invalidated despite the Consensus going against it.

>>53221932
Thats not even what delusion means you cuck.

>>53221951
>What is commonly accepted by reality hasn't gone further than the asteroid belt.
So do Void Engineers and the like not have to worry about Paradox?

>>53221958
>reality is defined be belief
>consensus, commonly held belief by humanity, states that magic isn't real
>so that's the reality of humanity
>the magic of mages goes against it
Ergo, delusion.

>>53222011
That's still not what delusional means.

>>53221985
Outside of the Consensus (past the asteroid belt) you can freely abuse your magic(k) and enlightened science.

There are entire planets created and run by wizard-lords, dyson spheres and worlds made entirely out of machinery.

The Consensus isn't as supreme as you seem to think it is.

>>53222033
But it is.

>>53222041
>The Consensus isn't as supreme as you seem to think it is.
I think that it's the belief of humanity at large, and therefore defines their reality.

Mages aren't delusional.
They're in the minority, as is their due, but they're not delusional.

Belief defines all, everything is correct and nothing is invalidated.

>>53222074
That's exactly what it is, but it doesn't determine the entirety of the Tellurian / universe. Not even close.

Things are infinite once you reach the Deep Umbra.

>>53222080
>consensus is reality of humanity
>magic goes against consensus
>therefore magic goes against reality (except out in space are you happy now space anon)
So if mages don't want to be delusional they had better get on a rocket ship.

>>53221932
>>53222011
We'll, no. Not when it creates independently observable effects in the world around you. If that's a delusion, then it's a delusion shared by anyone that observes it and, hence, it's indistinguishable from reality.

It's only a delusion if it's just in the mages head.

>>53222062
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

>>53222131
No. Mages make their own reality where magic is true. Little bubbles within a ginormous bubble.

You're honestly trolling at this point.

>>53222150
But it contradicts the bigger belief. The bigger, truer reality where magic isn't real. If it was truly just an isolated reality where it was true, then there wouldn't be paradox. They're still operating within and contradicting that reality with their beliefs, so they're delusional.

>It's only a delusion if it's just in the mages head.
>That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You get what I'm saying here?

>>53222263
>>It's only a delusion if it's just in the mages head.
>>That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
>You get what I'm saying here?
Sorry, for>>53222146

>>53222263
No, I'm saying that you're asserting things without evidence based upon a too-broad/hyperbolic definition of a word.

Mages create independently observable effects, ergo it is not a delusion.

>>53222263
The irony here is that you're the delusional one, anon.

>>53222307
A delusional is a belief that clashes with reality.
Magic in Ascension are beliefs made tangible that with the reality of humanity, the Consensus.

It's not rocket science.

>>53222337
Not really. Beliefs don't define reality out here in the real world.

>>53222502
You are a special kind of retard, you know that?

Fucking Hell, I had one hell of a time.
>Be me, a shadow lord.
>I need to get in contact with my shadow spirits in the umbra to get informations.
>The zone I'm staying right now is considered to be "lost" and heavily infested by the Wyrm, so I decide to get distant from there by train to then enter the umbra.
>Critical fail, get stuck in between real world and penumbra
>I'm alone, so nobody could help me, luckily it's late so there is really little chance of a passerby just being there.
>Fucking banes coming to get my ass
>Are you fucking kidding me, I fucking used a train
>My Shadow spirits intervene to buy time for me, fighting
>I try every single possible thing I could, I just keeping rolling 6 out of 7 difficulty rolls.
>My poor spirits are basically gone, during the time I receive some damage, but I am able to soak most of it (Minor Bane Spirits that deals lethal damage, dunno if the ST went easy on me on this)
>The Banes are coming for my ass, but I hear somebody pulling me with force into the physical world
>I do 1 success and I can just see a blurry figure getting away
>I start to run away completely frightened
>Is then discovered to be a vampire to have done that
>We had a prequel campain on the vampire side where the joined forces with werewolves to deal against a greater evil, so what happened isn't complete bullshit, also I was "near" (Like 20-30 km) vampire territory, but I have no problems admitting that the ST indeed wanted to save my ass there (We all admitted that in game).

But, I have a question, isn't it too weird for bane spirits to be on the penumbra in a "normal" zone of a city? IMHO the ST just wanted to scare me but then the situation went overboard and he didn't want to kill my char in such a stupid way.

>>53220068

Ascendant > Oracle >= Exemplar >= Archmage > Caine > Antediluvian > Methuselah >= Mage(Master) >= Earthbound > Mage >= Elder > Werewolf > Vampire > Mage(beginner) >>> Changeling

>>53222527
If that's what you want to believe, anon. But thankfully Consensual Reality isn't a real thing out here. Only in the retarded, nonsensical hot mess that is Ascension. So just because you want to believe I'm retarded, doesn't make it true.

>>53219672
The one chick does have a reflection, check out the cleavage. There is a man in the women's bathroom because the lady wanted dicked down. If the bathroom is sleazy enough for a man and woman to hook up in the bathroom who's to say all the stalls would still have doors?

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>>53222598
Most Earthbounds are way more powerful than Methuselah, but not all Earthbounds are on the same level of power. But, with Faith they can increase the range and duration of their powers by A LOT (Every Faith spent they can just multiply x10 anything that isn't damage)

>>53222263

There is no truth. This isn't awakening.

there are facts, like that objects fall when dropped. The Genius of the Technocracy is that they worked with sleepers who wanted to understand how these things work and built a paradigm around it. The Genius of the Traditions is that they have a work-around.

Mage has always been more about imagination than belief or symbols, in either incarnation.

>>53222638

Anon, we all believe you're retarded. And according to consensus....

>>53222678

Fuck off Demonfag. Methuselah Disciplines can actually rival the Earthbound in terms of range.

Master Mages can potentially pull down the goddamn moon with an extended ritual, and hang it for later usage. Or just create their own fucking planets in the Deep Umbra.

>>53222502
Not if that belief rewrites reality.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/delusion

You do realize that you're arguing with the dictionary at this point, right?

>psychology : a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary the delusion that someone was out to hurt him; also : the abnormal state marked by such beliefs

>>53222711
>There is no truth
But there is reality. And on the planet Earth, magic is a belief that contradicts that reality. So it's a delusion.

>Anon, we all believe you're retarded. And according to consensus....
Is this supposed to be some witty comeback? I get what you're going for, but it fails miserably because there is no such thing as Consensual Reality out here in the real world. But let me go ahead and stoop to your level and use your logic to say that I'm not retarded because there is no truth and I don't believe I am.

>>53222737
>You do realize that you're arguing with the dictionary at this point, right?
They have been since the beginning and its been pointed out several times, the anon is either a troll, retarded, or, most likely, both.

>>53222737
Still fits. Especially if you consider the "abnormal state" as being a mage.

>>53222780
see
>>53222737
for why you are a turbo autist and should not be allowed to speak while grown-ups are talking.

>>53222827

This is both Consensus AND Supernal Truth.

>>53222678
Why are you trying to outwank the magefags? That always fails.

>>53222879
I'm not even talking about mages in my post, this magefag shit must end.

>>53222904
>this magefag shit must end

It will never end.

>>53222877
Consensus is literally a meme. The world of Ascension is ruled by a meme.

Masters of the Art is the best book ever produced by White Wolf

>>53222780
>But there is reality. And on the planet Earth, magic is a belief that contradicts that reality. So it's a delusion.

Good thing we're talking about a fictional universe.

>>53222802
>Still fits. Especially if you consider the "abnormal state" as being a mage

Good thing that the game doesn't. Mages are simply humans in their fully actualized state.

>>53222904
To be fair, you started it again by posting your Earthbound jizzrag picture.

>>53222987
Cannot wait for the new 5ed fluff to come up to make it uncanon so at least magefags will leave owod discussions alone.

>>53222904
Someone presumed you were because we're dealing with an extra special retard who thinks all mages are delusional in OWoD.

But that's still pretty damn impressive.

>>53222987
Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand is better.

>>53223010
>Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand is better.

NUH UHH

>>53223008

If you think anyone in this thread respects nuWW, I've got bad fucking news for you.

>>53222711
>we
Speak for yourself, magecuck.

>>53223010
Vicissitude as aliens will always be canon in my chronicles.

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>Imagine if Masters of the Art had been made by actual competent writers

If only.. .. ..

>>53223049
I'm just going to snag that picture and use it as base rules for whenever my idiot friends want to play as Archmages

Thanks for this

>>53223049
Too bad instead goat fucker Phil wrote it, so we didn't get rules for 1-5 much less 6-10 in Spheres.

>>53223003
I saw a chart that put Methuselah before Earthbound, I just said that I disagree and I posted proof of why.

Tell me what's wrong with that.

>>53223022
>>53222987

Both of you are faggots. Gypsies is the best WoD book ever, even moreso than mummy!

>>53223049
WTF I could actually USE archmasters in a game with this

>>53223112
>proof

lol ok

>>53223049
Those rules don't even nerf Archmages yet make things so much more balanced all the same.

Why would Phil fucking deny this?

>>53223112
Methuselahs of higher dots can easily rival the Earthbound.

Masters who prepare, likewise.

>>53223188
>Why would Phil fucking deny this?
Because he didn't want to put rules in the book because he was too busy fucking animals.

>>53223224
Don't forget food porn

>>53218883
Actually the part that confuses me is why does she have a lit cigarette

why would a vampire smoke

Father's thrusting COCK

Okay so question relevant to a game I'm playing, how do people commonly go about treating bite wounds?

>>53223316
How big? General wound rules still apply.
Apply pressure to stop bleeding, clean wound, then take to a medical specialist.
Depending on what gave the bite, you might need stitches.

>>53223316
Which game?
Bite wound from who to who?
What kind of damage?

>>53223409
Something thats a decent sized predator animal, wolf or cheetah, not big like a bear or lion or something. Bleeding and cleaning I figured, I'm just not sure what people do about the punctures themselves aside from maybe stitches.

>>53223415
Hunter, otherwise magic of one type or another to fix it would be on the table. From this weird not human skinless thing living a few miles in the woods to a human. Lethal.

>>53223426
Bleeding and cleaning.
If there's tearing, you'll need stitches, but if it's just punctures there's nothing to stitch, so it's just dressing.

I say this with literally no medical training.

>>53223289
Force of Habit? Maybe to blend in slightly better in mortal society?

>>53223515
Medicine, use Alcohol to clean up the wound.
Then based on how many health levels it took it will hal by itself eventually, but it will require some time.

>>53222989
>Good thing we're talking about a fictional universe.
So am I?

>Mages are simply humans in their fully actualized state.
But still abnormal, according to the Consensus.

>>53223289
Looks more like a tube of lipstick to me.

>>53224059
>But still abnormal, according to the Consensus.

Only their Paradigms are abnormal.

Is it possible to remove someone's memory of something in Awakening? All the spells I'm looking at clearly say it lasts for the spell's Duration.

>>53224138
There is a legacy that does it. The Logophages.
Or you can cheat and surgically plant a memory altering imbued item into someones organ. Or play 2e, but it can still be dispelled.

>>53224138
As of 2e "Lasting" is a Duration, I believe. And yeah you can wipe memories.

>>53224084
Then the abnormal state is having an abnormal paradigm.

>>53224185
I think you're thinking of Indefinite.

>>53224138
Permanent and irreversible removal of memories requires Unmaking, with the +2 reach option to make it lasting.

Don't even talk to me if you've never gotten in a fist fight with an angel in the parking lot outside a mall complex.

Anything new from the convention yet?

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>>53223254
>Don't forget food porn

Why waste valuable space and word count to explain how to actually employ the Spheres or know what they're capable of, no less anything about Archspheres, when you need to demand role-playing culinary imperatives of Mage players?

Am I just retarded, or should crossover with Mage not even be possible? The whole idea of consensual reality is that what the great majority of people believe is so. So, since 90% of people don't believe in vampires, werewolves, etc., shouldn't they not exist?

>>53224858
Its pretty hard to actively not believe in things. An absence of belief is the majority opinion. Also, with the exception of gay ass changelings, the rest of the supernaturals don't work like that for reasons that are never really gone into.

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>>53224715
>and there were people doing major shittalking on cWoD game books before during and even after this was published

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>>53224715
>STOP EATING PIZZA MAGES DONT FUCKING EAT PIZZA AND YOU CANT EVEN FOCUS IF THERES PIZZA SO STOP FUCKING EATING IT

>>53224858

So-called "Cosmological Constants" are actually a thing in Mage.

>>53224858
The thing about that is that for werewolves and vampires, there's a greater spiritual power that decrees their existence. Gaia and ol' YHVH respectively.

>>53223426
Make sure to get a rabies shot.

>>53223316
Goblin Fruit.

>>53224858
It's almost as though WoD was constructed haphazardly and with little forethought in regards to overall cohesion of the shared universe!

So, when is Paradox/Obsidian releasing a sequel for Bloodlines? I don't think i can hold my boner any longer.

>>53225642
I wouldn't expect it to be good if Dracula is going to be involved at all.

>>53220028
>>53220068
>>53222598

New to WoD. My friends want to play Changeling. Why does it suck?

>>53225777
Nwod is good but you pretty much all play rape victims and/or abuse surviors. OWoD you play child prostitues

>>53225777
Because quite literally selfies make you die inside.

Should i play V20 or Requiem? I enjoy dat metaplot.

>>53222598
Aren't Exemplars and Oracles just evolved Archmages?

Ascended mages are too powerful to even comprehend. They're effectively omnipotent.

>>53225642
There is absolutely no way that a game made in the current day would be able to match that at all. The best it could hope for is deus ex vs deus ex human revolution levels. Same general idea but toned down a lot and messed up in certain areas.

>>53225910
>Exemplars
Evolved Archmagi having become one with their chosen Sphere(s), a true citizen of the cosmos. Living fundaments of gravity, time, life etc.

>Oracles
Those few legendary Archmages having broken through to Ascension only to turn back on it, readying themselves to steer others in the same direction.

>Ascension
The act of unifying with the Omni-dimensional consciousness, becoming part of a greater whole.

>>53225976
>>53225910
Archmages can also evolve into true gods, akin to the Celestines, Gaia and the Triat.

>>53225976
I've never played any ascension, or even really read any of it, but isn't that just Hinduism? Meditating and enlightening yourself until you join with the universe?

>>53226109
There's also Gnosticism. The west harbored their own views of the ascension of the soul, mediation and enlightenment.

East and West had different ideals and methods.

>>53225056
Pizza is one of the Technocracy's lies!

>Vampires will have two looks, one for the mortal world and one for Elysium

What does this mean exactly?

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>>53224715
What if I'm playing a Technocrat game?

>>53225777
It doesn't. It's like a fantasy world where you scratch the surface and you find that you're actually playing Dark Souls.

Those are just power rankings. oWoD changelings have some serious vulnerabilities and their powers are limited unless they pull your perceptions onto their wavelength via enchantment.

If they call upon the wyrd, though... HOO BOY watch out.

Any news from 5e's playtest?

>>53226193
It means they dress fancy for going to their Vampire parties but other wise wear normal clothes like they should all the time if the masquerade is actually more important than ever.

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>>53226200
>playing Technocracy

>>53226201
>If they call upon the wyrd, though... HOO BOY watch out.

They were only impressive in the Dark Ages

>>53226226

Christ I'm dumb, thought they would all look like Orlok or vamps from Buffy when they are around eachother. What you said is way better.

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>>53226228
>not playing Technocracy

What, are you some sort of new age hippy pleb?

>>53226242
Yeah I read it that way too at first, combined with the other details it still feels like a weird dress code being shoe horned in for LARPers.

>>53226324

>>53226201
kek

What can your precious Changelings do when confronted by a pissed off neckbeard Mage?

NOTHING

>>53226376
If its a Technocrat the mage doesn't even have to do anything but exist.

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>>53226200
Asian Takeaway.
It works on a number of levels.

>>53226376
I am a magefag. I'm just explaining to you how things work.

>>53218883
Maybe vampires can't have sex but she doesn't need working organs to suck a cock

The inherent danger of putting a blood filled balloon in her mouth just makes it more exciting

Probably how that guy died

>>53227380
How do you know that it's a guy?

>>53227380

Vampires can have sex and even enjoy it, just use the Blush of Life or whatever it's called, but it's not going to be as pleasurable to them as feeding on someone. Hope you don't mind blood all over your dick though because that's how they slick themselves up.

>>53227390
I suppose it could be a woman. I would say those hands look mannish but then so do the vampires.

Maybe it's even a reverse trap vampire

>>53227403
>Not giving oral then quickly biting the artery in their thigh as they're in the midst of orgasm to get that endorphin laced blood

>>53227597

>>53219909

LOL Elmer