Infantry article is up https://www.warhammer-community.com /

>When you don't play, and only know one person who does, but don't even know who he plays against.
>Yet you still are reading on the game.
help

>>53126837
>Guardsmen can wound titans on a 6+
Seems legit. Genuinly no complaints there. Certainly a boost for my blocks of chaos boltermans.

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>>53126837
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/08/17794gw-homepage-post-4/
It sounds perfect to me.

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>>53126870
>JEW-W becoming cheaper with their prices of their plastic crack
8th edition golden age when?

>>53126885
I would have preferred stuff like a 7+ for absurd differences in S and T (like a lasgun vs a titan), but this system is definitely fine.

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>>53126837
>Can fire at multiple different targets so you can use all your weapons at the most effective targets.
The only way this edition can get ANY better is if vehicles can move and fire all weapons at different targets without penalties

>>53126837
I suppose it makes sense that since armor is going to be a much bigger factor for unit survivability that they'd tune down SvT

>>53126903
I expect some kind of extra rule to cover that, but then again, give a titan enough wounds and this could actually work out.

>>53126903
>>53126933
A warlord had enough HPs in 30k [30 of the fuckers] can you imagine how many wounds in 8th!?

"Not a problem though, because in the new Warhammer 40,000, models in a squad can fire at different targets. So, this means your Tactical Squad can have your boys with bolters deal with that onrushing Hormagaunt horde, while the flamer bathes a nearby Lictor in prometheum fire, and the squad’s krak missile takes an opportunistic pop-shot at that onrushing Carnifex – just as you always imagined they should!"

SWEET JESUS YES. My vet gunline just got TERRIFYING

CADIA INVICTA

>>53126875
>500 shots
An infantry blob can shave a wound or two per round, but without special weapons they will all die before doing any meaningful damage to a titan.

Everything seems fine for now and making me consider getting back into 40k, but why did they have to leave random charge ranges in? It might be the factor that makes me drop the game in the end.

>>53126956
>>53126917
There's a reason you couldnt before: its gonna make the shooting phase complicated as fuck, especially for Tau battlesuits.

>>53126837
This edition guna be gud
meltaguns in tactical squads are actually going to have a fucking point

>>53127002
Eh, we did get variable move-stats, only need to get within an inch of the target, and then get a 3" pile-in to drag in nearby enemies. Gaunts are going to have a minimum M8, maybe higher. As-is assaulting is going to be much easier than in 7th.

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>>53126870

>when you don't play, and don't know anyone that does
>yet you own 2 armies, are still collecting models and reading about the game

Help

This actually is quite a change to the SvT table.

Let's use a lasgun, for example.

In 7 or below it would wound t3 on 4+, then t4 on 5+, and t5 on 6+ and on.

In 8e it will be wounding t3 on 4+ still, but t4 and t5 on 5+! Then t6 on 6+ and on.

This is big. I'm a Tau player (yeah I know) and I'm thinking about my pulse rifle is it's still S5. That means it will be wounding t6,7,8, and 9 on 5+!

On the other hand, it will only be wounding t4 and 3 on 3+

This means less 2+ wounding for my fire warriors, but a lot more 5+ wounding on most other things.

I like it

However this article told us very little about infantry and more about the wound table

>>53127011
yeah tau are the drawback to all of this. This is why I am playing 8th ed alost exclusively with activation rules instead of the traditional " Ok move alll your shit at once, now I move all my shit at once"

>>53127011
Target Lock was already a thing. It's just free for everyone now.

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>>53127027
Well congratulations, the new edition will now make it incredibly easy to get someone to play with you using your other army.

>>53126996
You underestimate the size of my band. I play apoc footslogging chaos.

>>53127011
>"this suit is firing at your infantry, rolling"
>"okay"
>"this suit is firing at your vehicle, rolling"
>"okay"
>"this suit is firing at your flyer, rolling"
>"okay"

How is this complicated again?

>>53126875
>take a formation of three warlord titans
>a platoon of guardsman charges one, gets 50 melee attacks striking first that can wound anything on a 6
>overwatch with plasma blastgun, dealing 3d6 s8 Rend -3 hits each doing d3 wounds
>kill a dozen guardsmen, they lose another 12 from battleshock

>>53127089
He mans he's gong to have to use
T A C T I C S
A
C
T
I
C
S

>>53127091
>Fabius bile punches a titan they all die

>>53127091
Pretty sure IG is going to get the ability to use a commissar to blame one dude and prevent further battleshock losses.

>>53127125
1. ID is not a thing in 8th, so he cannot one-shot them
2. Formations don't exist and you can't squadron vehicles in 8th, so there is literally no way that they can die due to battleshock.

>>53127089
Thats been Tau for a long ass time

>>53127031
Could you (or someone else) lay down some math how elite infantry like, let's say, Terminators and Custodes, will be affected by those changes? I'm not sure if my reasoning is right, but they seem to be even more durable (and Termies got a second wound to boost too).

>Some quick maths tells us that we’d need over 500 bolters firing at that Gorkanaut to bring it down, whereas you’d need just over a dozen lascannons

If this logic continues.and we assume a multimelta does 2d6 wounds at -4 rend, we can work out the stats of a flyrant.

60 multimeltas score 10 hits, averaging 70 wounds of which 35 will go through (assuming it's T8).

It saves 6 wounds with a 2+ save modified to 6+, and still dies

Thus a flyrant in 8e is T8 2+ with 29 wounds.

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>>53126837
>Brings a Titan formation to a "narrative" game
>T 20
>W 50
>SV 2+
>each
>Opponent sends fabious bile into combat with them
>he hits first due to assaulting
>hits
>wounds on 6+ (because everything can do that in 8th
>I fail my save
>His weapon is Instant Death
>Remove Titan from the field
>Remove other 2 Titans after failing battle shock

Oh boy 8th is looking good.

>>53127142
>can't squadron vehicles in 8th

Well, that's news to me, care to share your source on that?

>>53127206
Still not possible, except the wounding on a 6+ is a thing now. Still no formations, still not what narrative play is, still not how battleshock works, and still no ID in 8th. So yeah, no.

>>53127206
>His weapon is Instant Death
I wish would would grow a brain.

Instant death is no longer a thing you retard, because weapons have damage now.

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>>53127200
This post made me realize that multi-melta spam may actually be viable.

>>53127238
smaugfags gonna get DESOLATED

>>53127200
>and we assume a multimelta does 2d6 wounds at -4 rend
that's a pretty big fuckin' assumption

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>>53127223
Its turning into a meme at this point, despite them being clear ID is not a thing in 8th.

>>53127200
>assume a multimelta does 2d6 wounds at -4 rend
But that's stupid and I'm not gonna assume that.

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>>53127290
So you're on Mars when tbis guys strolls up and slaps your titan legion dead.

Wat do

>>53127179
Not him but:
Against a lasgun, it's the same probability to wound, so a termie is twice as durable due to the added wounds.
Against anything not S:8, termies are 125 more durable per wound, or 250% more durable over all.
Against anything greater than or equal to S:8, they've increased durability by 200% due to extra wounds. Now this isn't factoring flat AP in 7th vs modular in 8th, just in terms of to wound, as everything is assumed to otherwise be on a BS:2+ model and the gun at ap:-

>>53127320
Conclude I've lost against Bile's Solo Black Crusade.

>>53127036
Yeah, but if you had a TL you couldnt take as many weapons.

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>>53126837
It's full of stars.

>>53127349
Right, but Crisis Suits could only fire two weapons per suit per turn, so there wasn't a point in taking a third weapon. The downside of the Target Lock is that it edged you out of twin-linking, EWO or other useful hardpoint options, not a third weapon.

>>53127238
Not if hordes become the meta. An ork green tide would be the bane of your existance.

>>53127366
Although now crisis suits really can be battlefield swiss army knives instead of build-an-aspect-warrior workshop. Bring squads with every suit with a flamer, a plasmagun and a fusion blaster. Just march them up the table and have them do whatever needs doing.
The question is will this be able to beat the fabius bile meta?

>>53127325
So Elites are even more elite, but regular Infantry is balanced by getting a chance to wound anything on 6+ and by the rules making special weapons even more important, because vehicles have wounds now, and squads can now choose which model fires at what so they do not waste their firepower.

Sounds really fucking good.

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>>53126837
All weapons be Gauss now! NOO! MY GIMICK!

>>53127002
>>53127019
Also it looks like you are moving even if you can't reach so you get at least something like second movement, albeit random.

Well this just helped my Skitarii out immensely against Tau S5 bullshit. On the other hand, my Kastelans can now be wounded by Guardsmen, which is a shame.

Radium Carbines also wounding T5 on a 5+ rather than a 6 is also a pretty big difference. I like it.

Now I just hope they won't fuck up Character rules and how strong Land Raiders and their irk will actually be in-game and not just on paper and 8e might just be the exact thing we needed.

>>53127397
This is certainly an option now. I still think that dedicated single-type suits are going to be common simply for being able to do the most damage to a given target instead of hoping to be within range of two different targets which are each appropriate to different weapons you brought. Also depends on how good our support systems are this time around.

>>53127434
Eh, they'll just make Gauss wound everything on 5+ now to compensate.

>>53127434
Necrons are certainly going to get a new gimmick for their main guns, right? Right?

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>got a load of old marines I want to show some love to
>all with the old 3rd edition Tactical Flamer/Missile layout before GW made sprues with bloody loads of options on
>might actually be useful now, though probably get shat all over by Guillimarines

I am a constant cynic but this is actually interesting me. Won't be buying ten Centurions or Stormravens (?) or whatever GW want me to though.

>>53127200
A multimelta in SW:A does d6 Rend -4, what makes you think it'd be any more than that?

>>53127254
Fucking cuckhobbit

>>53126837
>Tau go from wounding guard and boyz on 2+ to 3+
>No longer ignore their 5+ saves
And to think I actually liked running infantry over suits

>>53127493
Most faction gimmicks are going to have to be redone, hence why they're updating everything at once and at least pretending to rebalance everything.

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>>53126837
I guess it's time to buy some genestealer cultists to help out my otherwise CQC nids.

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>>53126837

My previous post about multilasers yesterday was wrong, here is the updated version

>>53127547
Damn, this almost makes me want to play guard.

So there's a reason to actually have KMB's in Burna units?

>>53127206

Just so everyone is clear, this is a pasta.

>>53127347
Fabius does what Abbadon't.

>>53127206
Please update your pasta dude, Formations aren't a thing anymore.

>>53127011
So it becomes more complicated....because now everyone can be tau....ok.

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>>53127206
Despite the fact that this is bait, I'm still going to illuminate all the things wrong with it for people who are just joining us and have no idea what the rules in 8th are:

>Brings a Titan formation to a "narrative" game
Formations no longer exist, and narrative games don't mean "unbalanced games where you can do whatever you want", that's Open games

>Opponent sends fabious bile into combat with them
>he hits first due to assaulting
>hits
>wounds on 6+ (because everything can do that in 8th
We don't know everything Wounds on a 6+, it could be like SWA where you need to roll a 6 and then the 6's need a second roll of 4+ or more to stick.

>His weapon is Instant Death
No longer a thing, weapons can deal multiple Wounds per hit or even Mortal Wounds which ignore saves and don't need to roll to Wound, but you'll never be removing a 10+ Wounds model in one hit with anything.

>Remove other 2 Titans after failing battle shock
Not even remotely how battleshock works. Titans aren't going to be squadroned together and even if they were they're not going to have a Leadership lower than 7.

>>53127593
Kek

>>53127623
Except we DO know everything wounds on a 6+. That is what we learned today.

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>>53127547
Earth Defense Force tactics are finally viable.

>>53127142
Killa kanz being squadrons since inception says you are wrong.

>>53127265
>that's a pretty big fuckin' assumption
For you

>>53127547
Do people actually believe this or is it just a meme?

>>53127702
2d6 seems unreasonable. I could see 1d6, though.

>>53127708
100% stale meme

>>53126837
As someone who has only read lore and is considering getting into 8th... How does this affect Orks and how viable are Orks in 8th from what we've seen so far?

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>>53127735
>>53127708
>Not drowning enemy titans in men and flashlight
Away with you !

>>53127011
>gonna make the shooting phase complicated as fuck

How so? You declare your targets and then resolve shooting.

>>53127011
>I fire the lasguns on X
>now I fire those flamers on Y
>and then, I fire this pistol on Z

How complicated, right ?

> play eldar
> every unit has the same weapons except sergeants
> what are special weapons? splitfire? wtf?

>>53127768
It means throwing enough Boyz at a thing will eventually kill the thing, though it would be pretty inefficient to do such. The universal split fire rule is probably more useful, as you can shoot one target and then charge another. There is also now less incentive to do multiple small units, so you aren't penalized for running massive mobs.

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>>53127547

>>53127732

Meltas will likely be 1D6 + X if in melta range.

>>53127831
I could see that working. Would we then have Melta X? Or just use a flat value for all meltas?

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Who else will engulf the battlefield in a black tide?

NO PITY!
NO REMORSE!
NO FEAR!

>>53127822
When their 8th edition stats are released I want someone to roll out a simulated combat in this general between Fabius and 3 titans for fun.

>>53127806
>Any of the aspect Exarchs
>Weapon Platforms
>Encouraging mixing heavy weapon platforms
>Wraithknight has different weapons on model
>Wraithlord
Anon pls

Guardsmen are going to make a comeback this ed

So glad I am infantry heavy guard. 200+ infantry boy!

Now I just need to finish my orkz

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>Chaos Renegades get a special weapon for every 5 guys

>Can fire at different targets now

>Cheap as fuck units, even cheaper than guardsmen if I don't take militia training

>Hopefully the demagogue rules for being able to put dead squads into reserves survive into 8th edition

I'm just going to flood the board with endless militia squads that dump plasma/melta shots on everything that moves

>if I ever played with anyone

I have a Vraks Chaos army and a Red Scorpions army. Someday I will coerce someone to play with me.

>>53127889
Same anon, I've got 230 something Ork Boyz myself, I've been batch painting them as Bad Moonz, and it's killing me, but the Hype keeps me going

>>53127897
Never paint armour pure white, anon. Base coat it with a slight off white or grey so you have somewhere to go for highlights.

>>53127897
Anon that white is painful.

>>53127618
We saw the problems in 7th edition
So we gave everyone Tau abilities
Because when everyone is Tau, no one will be.

>>53127923
>>53127958
I swear it looks better in person!

but yea I should probably consider darkening it a bit. Thinking I might use nuln and then go over it with white highlights

>>53127886
That HQs have different weapons are a given. Weapon platforms what, 1 per guardian unit? Which heavily outrange shuriken catapults anyway?

> wraithknight
> wraithlord
> infantry

>>53128012
For God-Emperor's sake don't darken white by slathering Nuln all over it. You'll get a fucking mess.

>>53128012
Uncle Anon's trick 4 smooth white
>Prime in Army Painter Uniform Gray
>Allow to dry
>Do a 50/50 mix of Uniform Gray and GW Pallid Wych Flesh
>Paint Pallid Wych Flesh
>Edge highlight pure white

>>53127034
>look at me I'm a special snowflake fag
No one cares about your house ruling.

>>53128033
One per 10 guardians, up to 20 in a unit. Aspect exarchs aren't HQs, it's a sergeant equivalent that can be attached to pretty much any infantry unit that isn't a guardian.

Melee Weapon profiles when?

I want to know how long it'll take my warscythe lord to eviscerate a dreadnought now. Armourbane better be reflected in some kind of bonus damage against vehicles/monstrous models

>>53128092
Why would you voluntarily limit your mobility for no reason by putting 20 in 1 unit?

Oh yeah I thought you said autarchs. I mentioned sergeants.

>>53128063
I just base it black, do a layer of averland sunset, so a layer of 90% white 10% averland sunset and then finish with white.
It gives a nice creamy white, you can adjust the proportions to get a stronger cream or white.
Not /wip/ though. Stay on target. We're bitching about 8ed here.

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>Big mek Megatork was riding in his gorkanaut towards the imperial lines. His victory was assured, yesterdays assault all but depleted the garrisons defences and they had almost nothing remaining.
He laughed and threw a gretchin to the mekboy down at the engine room.
''Oi! you git, get da damn thing moving''
The gorkanaut started to move towards them. As he got closer he notices something strange about the humies. These humies that were almost broken yesterday had a strange glint in their eyes now. While gorkanaut was advancing and firing a single sound was heard amidst the chaos of the battlefield.
''FIRST RANK FIRE, SECOND RANK FIRE ! ''

>>53128114
This, gotta see if Busta Bombs still work.
>>53128126
That's actually a really interesting way to do it, and I can't bitch about 8th ed, I'm really excited for it.

>>53128125
Not the first person you were talking to, I was just responding to that post.

>>53127089
>>53127801
>>53127772
>applying everything in a vacuum of 1v1

Don't agree with 'complicated' being the word for this. "Time wasting" is more fitting.

Think about doing this for every unit on the field
Think about the fact loading up on more weapons means more time spent picking targets for each
Think about having to check if X is in range, stooping down to check to LoS, etc
Think about that one faggot at every LGS who will not only min max as much random weapons into every squad as possible but also take an hour to ponder over each individual shot every shooting phase.
Think about all this combined with having to learn basically a whole new game and entirely new stat lines for everything

8th games are going to be sluggish as fuck

Imagine doing this in Apocalypse, although granted time isn't really an issue in Apoc

>>53128132
Indeed. It is a beautiful day.

>>53127131
Unlikely. More likely is that they can choose to execute someone for a re-roll.

>>53128132
>The lasguns stripped some of the eye watering yellow paint off the gorkanaut
>Before the Gorkanaut slammed into the line and killed the lot of them
Jobs a gud 'un!

>>53127986
> The Greater Good

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>>53128170
And if you don't wanna "waste time", why don't you fire all of those weapons at the same target like you always did before, then ? No one stops you from doing this.

>>53127031

It's an interesting table, though one I'm not 100% sure my SOB like.

Meltaguns still get a 2+ vs marines but dropped to 3+ vs a lot more stuff.

As you said: It's a lot less 2+ wounding but a lot more 5+ wounding. Makes a lot of weapons a lot less certain.

Still, I can't really complain about it.

>>53128132
>Big mek noticing anything about 'umies instead of opening fire on sight
Naff Panzee/10

>>53128170
I already play tau? You just have to preplan what you want to do in your opponents go and not do the wargaming equivalent of waiting until you get to the front of the queue in mac donald's to spend ten minutes deciding on your meal.
It's called tactics anon. I'm sorry you can't just smash your army into your opponents like before.

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but what was wrong with the old to wound chart? This six can wound anything stuff is unnecessary.

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>>53128187

>What GW thinks vs how it actually works.

>>53128170
> Not choosing your targets lasgun by lasgun

So does this mean mixing special weapons in a squad could actually be viable now? Or at least not a complete waste of points?

I can see this working out nicely for my Missile Launcher Devastators. Being able to fire them wherever along with moving and shooting at only -1 BS means they'll be able to use their versatility more

>>53128170
If someone can't make a decision in a reasonable amount of time then don't play them.

>>53126875
First the Guardsman needs to hit, which is a 50-50 chance, then they need wound which is a 16% chance, then the titan needs to roll a 1 on it's armour save which is another 16% chance, and there are also cover saves they likely have. With all this in mind a single lascannon or bolter has about a 2% chance to wound (excluding the possible cover save or fnp save) and the titan likely has 20+ wounds.

>>53128253

Yep. That missile laucher can fire at anything for -1 BS (Moving and shooting a heavy weapon) while the rest of the squad engages up at other infantry.

>>53128247
People will do this.

you think they won't? delusional

>>53128266
Ultimately this is the best choice of action though

how does that work for my fire warrior breacher team ?

>>53128274
it takes 108 bolter shots from space marines to take down a toughness 7, 8 wound Dreadnought with a 3+. You're going to need a lot of guardsmen if you want to be killing titans.

>>53128309
I have a lot.

>>53128290
Eventually they'll learn that other people aren't willing to spend six hours waiting for them to make sure they get the most out of everything in a casual game. Either that or they'll whine about it on here while the lgs ignores their existence. Either way, they can't spend all day mulling over what target they'll probably miss if no one actually plays a game with them.

>>53128274
>the titan likely has 20+ wounds
More like somewhere in the 100 wound range. It already has 30 or so HP, and every vehicle shown thus far has a wounds to HP ratio in the 3 to 4 range.

>>53128253
Yeah. You could actually load up a Devastator squad with all different weapons like the box and have it not be terrible.

Will Wraithknights get 3D6 saves or some shit to compensate for this garbage?

>>53128274
>titan will likely have 20+ wounds
A fucking knight has over 20, you might want to adjust your estimations.

From the example they gave iit seems split fire is done by different weapon types, so a heavy weapon fires at something, assault weapon at other and the rapid fire at the main target.

>>53128352
Okay, as dumb as it got a couple of threads ago this post is worthy of it.
Where's the laughing cheetahs

>>53128309
>>53128341
>>53128354
proves my point further, not only is it a 1% to actually wound, you're gonna need like 500 guardsmen to take down a titan, just wanted to prove the meme false.

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>>53126875

>Spend centuries in the creation of a God Machine
>It is a creation of wonder, a true avatar of the machine god
>Allies and enemies alike tremble with fear and awe at its sight.
>It has the firepower to destroy cities and end sieges.

>While advancing towards the objective to bring its holy wrath to the heretics get ambushed by 100 renegade guardsman.

>Laugh in their faces as you prepare to vaporise them, dont feel the need to bring you whole wrath towards them, one arm will be more than enough.

>Use your turbolaser but due to blast templates gone miss and do nothing to the enemy.

>Each Heretic guardsman dumps half a mag in quick succession to the titan.

>You die.

Welcome to the new 40k.

>>53128352
They'll have high toughness and get a giant pile of wounds but will degrade in performance as they take damage.

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>>53128309
>mfw 36 Devilgants will fuck up a Dreadnought

>>53128394
14 Toughness, 30 Wounds?

>>53128170
>stooping down to check to LoS
I hope to fucking God TLoS is gone, that was the worst addition to 40k literally ever.

>>53128384
but 100 models hitting on 5's and wounding on 6's wouldn't be able to kill a knight titan, let alone a scout or battle titan

I'm not sure they'd even be able to kill a dreadnought

>>53128384
>Spend centuries in the creation of a God Machine
>It is a creation of wonder, a true avatar of the machine god
>Allies and enemies alike tremble with fear and awe at its sight.
>It has the firepower to destroy cities and end sieges.
>While advancing towards the objective with 2 other god-machines, to bring its holy wrath to the heretics, get ambushed by 1 fabius bile

>in one hit he decimates your void shields and cripples your legs
>in your dying breath you beg your brothers to flee
>they trip and also die

Welcome to the new 40k

>>53128415
Might want to scale that down quite a bit, you're not going to be passing imperial knight wounds with a wraithknight. You also won't have six more toughness than a morkanaut.

>>53127381
as it should be

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>>53128360
That would be interesting for Devastator squads if they did it that way. It would actually incentivise the "four different weapons" Devastators.

>>53127521
>wounding t4 boyz 2+
wut?

>>53127822
I've not been keeping up with 8ed news regularly. Why is Fabulous Bill suddenly a meme?

>>53128415
Going off the Morkanaut, 8-10 T and 20-25 W probably.

>>53128309
>>53128327

Let's assume a titan has T:xboxhuge, Sv:2+ and 100 wounds. For a gaurdsman equivalent, you need 7,200 shots to down it. For conscripts, you need 10,800 shots. Now, a full squad of conscripts costs 150 points and can put out 150 shots at most. That means you need 72 squads of conscripts, or 10,800 points (well, actually 21,060 points at minimum when you consider HQ and platoon requirements) to kill a model that's at most 2,750 to 3,000ish points.
Now, this creates another issue. For the amount of dudes needed to kill a titan, the opponent can take 4 titans, or 7.6 titans when you include having to fit dudes in FoCs. That means that while you have enough fire power to kill one titan in a turn, you still have 6.6 other titans to deal with. And if you take more dudes to deal with that, the opponent gets more titans. So you'll always be screwed, because there will always be more titans for you to kill than there are game turns.
So, in short, you while it's theoretically possible to kill a titan with your dudes, you are absolutely fucked because the cost to do so nets the opponent more titans than you could ever kill.

>>53128449
No way bitch ass S6 weapons can harm my Wraithknight on more than a 6+

>>53128541
lel, have fun with being just a strong as every other army

>>53128114
> armourbane better be *
what kind of entitled bullshit is that?

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>>53128541
>>53128415
>>53128352
>mfw eldar players triggered by the fact that their broken OP models won't be broken anymore
Payback is a bitch you knifeeared fags

>>53128132
Assuming FRFSRF will be in 8th

>>53128360
You tremendous retard, they just went through weapons of the iconic Tactical Squad. Do you people even play 40k?

>>53128502
Anon started posting this wank
>>53127206
in every thread before we had seen half of these rules posts, so we started taking the piss out of him.

>>53128384
>>53128438
We all know this is hyperbole, but the fact there is a slim chance of this happening is stupid in my opinion.

Perhaps there are some extra rules tacked on that make certain war machines, vehicles or other behemoths invulnerable to some weapons because this is straight up dangerously stupid.

>>53128525

>implying a wraithknight is going to have a higher toughness or wound count than a morkanaut or knight

I know that wraith constructs have traditionally had a high toughness, but one thing that GW have made clear is that they have consulted extensively with tournament organisers and properly playtested. They will know that wraithknights were too tough in 7th. They will know that they were too cheap. They will know that they were too killy.

>>53126837
Not sure I like the higher amounts of T needed to reach the 6+ treshold. Before I used to love blessing my MoN marines with the +1T nurgle power for example, now T5 and T6 are the same against basic weapons (assuming MEQ S4 as basic in most cases). It doesn't even reduce the chance to be wounded by Plasma or such either. It seems that in many cases it will be almost pointless to increase toughness by some means by 1-2, something that used to give quite a large bonus to survivability before.

>>53128556
Inferior mon'keigh go back up your tree.

>>53128433

Lasguns can eventually kill titans.
They can.

Stop defending this piece of shit new edition.

>>53128577
You know it's possible to make a coherent post, right? Being triggered by a question isn't an excuse and doesn't change your issues with communication.

>>53128624
What are you talking about? this new edition is gonna be awesome

>>53128605
assuming a land raider is 12 wounds and 3+ save, it takes ~900 lasguns to kill it in one round
it takes over 500 lasguns/bolters to kill a gorkanaught in one round
it takes 108 bolters to kill a dreadnaught in one round.

Your vehicles are safe from small arms fire.

>>53128617
The difference now is Lasguns only need a 5+ instead of a 6+ against toughness 5.

What it really does though is lower the reason to take Nurgle Bikers, since they aren't as resistant to Boltguns and only show any real benefit against Strength 5 and 6 stuff.

>>53128613
They will know that Wraithknights struggled to get on top tables in the face of Gladius, deamons, and renegades spam.

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>>53127897
Just imagine a table full of those

>>53128605
There really isn't any chance of >>53128438 happening unless titans aren't immune to instant death and have a leadership of 7 or less and can be taken in squadrons and if instant death is even still a thing.
Not that likely to be possible really.

>>53128624
>Lasguns can eventually kill titans.
not within the confines of a regular game's turn limit

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>>53128567
Feels good.

>>53128624
Eventually means little in a game that stops at 6 turns.

>>53128605
If ID is gone and a trio of titans only need a minimum LD of 8 to be completely immune to morale losses, how is there even a slim chance?

>>53128624
Would you really prefer to the only counter to titans being more titans? Infantry needed a buff, nobody except little timmy wants to play exclusivley with 9" action figures.

>>53128170
If this is too hard for you, maybe you should play a different game.

>>53128613
Wraithknights with upgrades cost almost the same as Imperial Knights minus the 4++. Make them cost the same and no one whines.

>>53128626
>they used Bolters as an example in the shooting phase, that means Tyranids and Guard will get Bolters!

>>53128502
Somebody who really didn't understand anything about 8th ed decided that FB could 1-shot an entire squad of warlord titans.

He can't. He really, really can't.

>>53128605
>a slim chance
You mean virtually impossible, since the stated dev intent is to force people to actually combat heavy units and not one shot them.

Stop telling these idiots that small arms is pointless against big targets, I want them to waste their shooting for a few months before they catch on.

>>53128673
and they're the fags?

>>53128718
I have no clue what you're talking about and I get the idea that you don't either.

>>53128707
No, tanks and squads with lascannons do the job as well.

>>53128773
I'm calling you a retard for being to dumb to properly extrapolate.

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>>53128605

>Leman Russ has 150mm hull armor and 100mm armor at its mantlet.

>Gets killed when you dump a full belt of mg42.

( 40k autogun calibre is long 8.25 which is roughly the equivelent of the mauser round)

Dont think there can be a point of return from here on.

What're the odds they make Gauss always wound on a 5+ or better?

>>53128799
If this is true
How many Gauss flayers does it take to kill a titan?`

>>53128678
>after 6 turns, which simulates at most about a minute or two of actual combat, both armies throw their guns to the ground and declare a winner
Why is this a thing?

>>53128783
It's just you, people aren't retarded for not understanding the stupid shit you misinterpret and puke back out. Also I'm not the one who posted that thing you flipped out on in the first place, I was just calling you a social reject for being unable to convey a point without acting like a frothing retard.

Which you're still doing. Anyway, time for work. Have fun with the impotent rage.

>>53128624
>Lasguns can eventually kill titans.
>They can.
Technically yes, but statically and practically no. It will take 7.02 turns for a titans worth of lasguns to kill a titan. A game can't last for 7.02 turns, so statically it will never happen within the confines of a regular game.

>>53128605

You need to shoot an average pf 648 lasguns at a gorkanaut to kill it. The larger the number of dice rolls (or coin flips, or whatever) the less likely it is that you'll deviate from the average. That is to say, you have a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a six on a single dice. A 1 in 36 chance of rolling sixes on two dice. A 1 in 216 of rolling sixes on three dice.

So while it is theoretically possible to kill a gorkanaut with 18 lasgun shots, your chances of doing it are something like 1 in 10314424798490535546171949056. Quite unlikely.

Even killing a dread with eight bolter shots is a 1 in 282429536481 chance.

>>53128818
Normal movement is considered walking. That's at least 5 minutes per turn.

>>53127986
Nice Syndrome.

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>>53128624
Of course, 200 guardsmen firing continuously at the same Knight, which is a small-class titan, would eventally bring it down.

But how could this happen, knowing that this knight preemptively unloaded its guns into the guardsmen lines beforehand, while he was still out of reach ?

Stop crying a river, and grow a brain as well as some tactical sense, for once.

>>53127986
Honestly have no problems with tau. But I would love unreasonable eldar nerfs to drive off about half of them. Like scatter lasers becoming glorified bolters with -1 ap, wraithknights being about 200 more points, and warp spiders jumping in random directions unreasonable.

>>53128835
Just to point out for this, we don't know how stuff like Void Shields are gonna work yet either.

For all we know Titans are gonna be regenerating 5 wounds when turn ends for every void shield they get back.

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BEHOLD the new strength vs toughness chart.

>>53128814
2,700 gauss guns, assuming T: twice your strength and Sv: 2+.
For reference, in 7th edition it takes 567 gauss guns to kill a warlord titan, so it's got a durability increase of 476%.

>>53128818
The narrative reasoning is usually that whatever objective they're there for has finished within that time, whether it's rescuing civilians, finishing a chaos ritual, or calling for reinforcements.

For games where they're only trying to kill eachother, it's just killpoints, and at that point the reasoning is that the winning side will continue winning and either kill the rest of the enemy soon enough or the enemy will try and retreat

>>53128818
>assault rifles only have a range of a hundred meters
fucking unrealistic shit

i wish they would just release the rules already.

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Would you rather have 500 lasgun-sized titans or one titan-sized lasgun

Can someone explain this Fabius Bile kills the world meme?

>>53128870
That is true.
And that's also ignoring the fact we don't know how IWND will work, and all the other stuff that makes titans so hard to kill in 7th.
I'm going to conjecture that the chances of a titan being killed by lasguns and lasguns alone are going to be extremely insignificant, like .0001% if not even lower.

>>53128132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmuYkYnxeBE

Does this mean that multi-weapon squads will be thing now?

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>>53128707

GW shills in this thread need to go away.

>>53128132
>Commisar Bignuts looked up, to see a light array that would blind any man. Expecting to see his enemy in tattered ruins, he was horrified to see that only a loose panel had been blown off, and the paint job ruined (enhanced?) by the combined fire. As the claw came down to end his life, he thought to himself "oh well, even if we had stopped that behemoth, the nobs inside would have finished the job"

>>53128918
Here
>>53128582

Also, that's because Bile is fabulous. No other reasons needed.

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>>53128938
Go back home, Timmy. This thread is for grownups.

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>>53128844

To demonstrate the point a little further, this graph for ants shows the distribution curves for 2D6 up to 4D6. Note that the more dice that are being rolled, the steeper it becomes. Once you get up to hundreds of dice, the chances of deviating a great deal from the average are very small indeed.

>>53128938
No for this meme to work both choices need to be mutually exclusive

You're meme is wrong, fix it

>>53128234
Say a wraithknight is sitting on the game winning objective, and you are playing guard. Now in 7th, if you shot him to shit, and he still had one wound left, your lasguns no matter how many you had, are literally worthless. At least here you get a last chance.

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How many wounds should swarm units get in this new edition to not be completely fucked?

>>53128918
Fabulous Bill takes out a rusty needle
Fabulous Bill shanks a emperor titan
The crew of said titan get a mild case of tetnis and instantly die
The titan blows up

>>53129002
>Don't take double wounds from templates because that is already represented by templates being multi-kit
>instant death isn't a thing, so d6 wounds probably won't even take them out easily

I think you could keep most of them the same and be fine

>>53129002
Not so much a matter of wounds, as having a rule to say that they don't give a fuck about battle shock.

>>53128975
>chess
>>53128980
You're

I see GW started hiring shills that work for half a bread and half a brain.

>>53128918
Fabulous has Instant Death in 7E, which means he can one-shot Titans in 8E because THAT'S CLEARLY THE CASE

>>53129007
This meme badly needs some Bayhem gifs

>>53128668
Instant Death isn't a thing anymore.

Devastators are all long fangs now.

Space Wolves BTFO.

>>53128979
>continuous distribution for dice rolls
stop

>>53129002
Same wounds, immunity to ID/Multiwound from non-template sources

>>53129034
I hadn't even thought about that...

>>53128998
Personal opinion: standard troops are not supposed to be able such units, be they carnifexes, wraithknigts, imperial knights, morkanauts, dreadnaughts or battle tanks.

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>>53128980
You cant defend one without forgoing the other, but many gw paid shills and retards like you are defending it, creating a hypocrisy that can only be explained by being on a payroll.

We know gw started to work on the social media, and we know there are shills that are on payroll working in 4chan.
You either have to be a retard or a shill to defend both at the same time.

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>>53129057
>yfw space wolf new recruits are still ws/bs 4+

>>53127822
>no save modifer
>does d6 damage
>super heavy killer
this meme needs to die

High toughness are already nerfed. Surely, they can't fuck up my pro-painted fully magnetized Wraithknights, right?

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Now that shooting will be viable again, how will you guys change up your army?

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>>53129035
Anon, we got it : (you) don't like the idea that your titans might die from something else that an imperator class shootgun applied to the face.

Now, have the decency to not resort to the "payed shill meymey" boogeyman, in a 40k thread on /tg/. I can only take so much of your cringe at once.

>>53129091
Actually regular scouts were buffed, Space Wolves Blood Claws stayed WS/BS 3 which I expect we will see in 8th since it's a huge part of their schtick.

>>53129090
>Everyone who points out my dumb shit is GW shill

You have exceeded the amount of self-embarrassment permitted in a single thread. Please self-terminate immediately.

>>53128659
Yeah. These changes will make "elite infantry" (T5-6) much more fragile, while buffing horde infantry like guard and similar. Not sure I like that, although horde armies did need a buff after all.
I was in the process of a CSM marine horde army (planning 50-60 Deathguard marines/havocs), so not sure I like that, although I'm sure it'll turn out fine anyway.

>>53127986
>yfw 8th sphere expansion finally assimilated the whole galaxy into the tau'va
You had your chance! Should have brought the hammer down right from the start but you didn't. Now it's too late.

>>53127853
I'll certainly do if melee really is unfucked

>>53128979
>>53128844

You are a retard beyond comparison.
You fail at math you imbecile.
Each dice roll is seperate and not dependent on each other you fuckin piece of slob.

How do people like you manage to feed themselves without any outside help and not die due to forgetting to breathe is a mystery.

Get the fuck out of here you faggot piece of shit, i bet you fuck donkeys in the mountains you son of a whore. I will fuck all of your lineage you twink son of a bitch that sells himself on the streets. Shut your computer down, shut it down and dont open it again you shill son of a bitch that sells his as to GW to eat a bread .

>>53129078
And people shouldn't be fucked into taking dead weights.

>people seriously think lasguns should be able to bring down titans, the super unit of the imperium that can destroy continents and is pretty much dark age of technology level

How retarded are you people? Sure, it should be able to be taken down, but this is the equivalent of taking down a real world tank with a pistol.

>>53129109
i'm hoping i can play some shooty GK. or really just any grey knights at all. the s6 flamer with the new rules for normal fire and for overwatch sound like they could be good with it

>>53129131
I will terminate you mothers cunt you retard fat fuck that masturbates to computers and eats gw dick all day. Grow a pair of balls and get out of the computer you son of a whore.
I will take your ass and stick it on a titans flag pole and fuck you while the motherfuckin titan is advancing to crush your fathers house.

>>53129222
Trying way too hard there underage.

>>53129168
Toughness 5 will still be a nice improvement over toughness 4, since while it doesn't offer any benefit against Lasguns, it does improve you against everything S5 or below or S8 and above

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>>53129168
Suddenly im glad i don't have to take marks. I can simply spam bolters just as well.

please let fear and stealth be good

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>>53129222
I should take some popcorn.

>>53128472
I'd expect to see a lot of 2x2 heavy weapon loadouts so you can spread your weapons on different units so that one lucky battle cannon or battle shock caused by Fab won't rob half of your lascannons etc.

>>53129113

I will take your decency and stick it in your fathers dick so that another failiure such as you shall never come to this world to steal our oxygen.

Who the fuck talked about needing other titans to defeat another titan huhg you son of a bitch that takes words out of peoples mouths? Your fingers should be cut and bit by bit stuck on every orfice on your body, so that you cant spew your retarded shit on the internet again you dumb motherfucker.
I will take a lasgun pro and stick it in your mothers cunt and ram it onto a ww2 era tank to show you what can it do.

>>53129261
I guess Fear will be something related to that aftershock thing, so might be quite useful.
>>53129258
Oh indeed, it just feels strange that lasguns will now be as dangerous as bolters to T5 (ignoring BS of the typical wielder that is).

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>>53129269
Damn right he is

>>53129273
And few hitting decent marks like fuel tanks or treads.

>>53129078
Personal opinion: I am tired of having to tell people I am bringing my dreadmob so they can build accordingly. If I dont, they auto lose if they dont have enough anti tank, and when I do, they bring 50 lascannons and its over top of turn 2.

>>53129273

Which would still do nothing because the tank is too well armored. You need an rpg, grenades, a tank, mines, etc, to get through. Last I checked there weren't any real anti-titan weapons besides blowing it to hell and back with constant barrages and other titans.

Just shooting at it shouldn't bring it down. And if that does work, GW needs to change the fluff about titans being elite and now say they're made out of tissue paper if lasguns can just bring them down.

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>>53129035
>>53129090
>>53129222
>>53129256
>>53129296
Take your meds.

>>53129109

Gunline Veteran squads with max. number of Plasmas and a Lascannon from what I've seen so far.
I think weapons that can deal multiple wounds will get a price hike though.

>>53128624
Some creature might eventually find you attractive.
They might.

Stop defending your shitty personality.

>>53129273

Name one instance where tanks were disabled by rifle fire, name one instance or i will stick a mosin nagant rifle through your ass to your mouth so that you can literaly talk shit from your mout to show what kind of a humongous failiure at life you are.
Go and suck your history teachers dick to show what is and what is not possible, if you are not convinced go and suck a seargeant in the army who was left by his wife, to show it to you. But be carefull because he is gonig to ram your ass so hard that you will never forget the lesson you were given .

>>53129222
Wait, are you seriously trying to say the odds of rolling 1 six and a million sixes are the same?

>>53129242
You could split the mount Everest in half with a gallon of water with infinite time. That doesn't mean it's a reasonable thing to do.

>>53129354
He's got confused by the fact that the millionth six is as likely as the first. It's a pretty common mistake.

>>53129354

Rolling one dice to get a six and rolling a million dice to get all six in each of your rolls is not same for fucks sake.
But each dice roll is independent of each other and each of it has the same chance for six to show up.

If you roll 1 million dices 166666.66 of it will come 6.

If you cant understand this explanation go and hang yourself from the roof.

>>53129445
>will come 6.
Eh... that's the statistical average. You could totally roll million dice and they all could come 6 or none of them.

>>53129345

Arent you getting ashamed at all from selling your words and selling your time to pimps at Gamesworkshop ?
I will fuck your sister you incest making son of a bitch, go work at a decent job you fat fuck that gets off at 2d pictures.
I will cut your neckbeard and stick it in your motuh you demon spawn son of a bitch. I will pour boiling oil to your mothers cunt so that something like you never comes out again.

>>53129445
But that's what the guy you replied to was saying, it's stupidly unlikely you'll get significantly more or less sixes than that

>>53129222
>You fail at math you imbecile.
>Each dice roll is seperate and not dependent on each other you fuckin piece of slob.
Not him, but the only failure here is you.
As the number of dice rolled/coins flipped/whatever you want increases, the chance that they are all at the same state stays the same, equal to the number of possible microstates (so there are only ever 2 possible states where all coin flips are the same, while the number of stated where all dice rolls are the same is always 6 for a d6, all 1s, all 2s, all 3s, all 4s, all 5s or all 6s.) however the number of possible states increases whenever you add a coin or a dice or whatever. So for 2 dice, there are 36 possible outcomes, but only 1 is all 6s, so the chance of all 6s is 1 in 36.

If this wasn't true, like you alledge, then thermodynamics would be false and the universe wouldn't work in the way it clearly does.

>>53129492
Of course it is the statiscial average ffs ,didnt you read the part where odds and curves were being discussed and a dumb motherfucker that lost his mind due to masturbating all day to 2d pictures and eating from food coupons suggested odds change.

>>53128613
Morkanauts were "just short of super-heavy". Knights and WKs are both super-heavy. I'd expect them to be comparable and a bit bigger than the Naut. Particularly given "dozens of wounds" line for Knights.

>>53129543
The ods of rolling a 6 doesn't change, but the odds of rolling ALL 6s change.

>>53129566
Knights have been spoiled to be more than 20 wounds.
Which makes since HP ~= 2-4 wounds, and morkanaughts had 5 hull points to the knights 6, and has 18 wounds.

>>53129445
>>53129543
You mong, the original anon was pointing out the odds of all results being sixes gets smalled the more dice, not the odds of a single outcome being a 6.
Learn to read

>>53129445
I'm loving your reaction to everything in this thread and how you lack basic comprehension of what is actually being said and what it means. But hey, witnessing impotent rage of a manchild cretin is always extremely amusing. Please, go on. You still haven't written you've teleported behind us with a katana to rain vengeance upon us.

>>53129589
Sure. And I'd expect WKs to be pretty comparable to Knights.

>>53129534

Shut your fucking mouth you inbreed son of a bitch, you fail to comprehend basic math and act as a match teacher in a board full of fat fucks.

Take 1 mother fuckin dice and start rolling again and again, roll it 1000 times and count the numbers, than take 10 dice and roll it 100 times, count the numbers again.
Than take that calculation and stick it in your fathers eye so that he can never see you again and will stop crying for being a parent of such a huge retard. As a bonus you will go to jail where bubba the cell mate will ram your white ass teaching you how to properly speak next time.

>>53129617
WK can have 50 wounds for all I care. As long as the point cost reflects this.

>>53129570

AND WHO THE FUCK SAID IT DOESNT CHANGE YOU BLIND MONGREL

>Rolling one dice to get a six and rolling a million dice to get all six in each of your rolls is not same

JUST LEARN TO READ !

>>53129352
>Name one instance where tanks were disabled by rifle fire.

Bunch of Italian light tanks got disabled by small arms fire in WWII. All it takes is a lucky enough shot even with lead rounds, and lasguns fire what is basically a low-grade version of the lascannon shot; slip that through a vision slit or into a track and you have a problem.

And that's before we consider that 40k armoured vehicle design seems to revolve around exposing as many cables and pipes as possible...

>>53129256
Oh this is gold. I'm keeping this.

This isn't pasta is it?

>>53129589
I'd expect Knights to be around 25 to fit with what they've said. Wraithknights might end up a bit lower to represent th being lighter and faster

>>53129625
>being such an illiterate dumbass you think anyone but you was talking about the odds of a single dice roll being a 6, when everyone else was talking about all results being a six

Learn to read you faggot before you call me a retard.

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>>53129649
This is very sadly amusing

>>53129597

Give your adress to me you son of a bitch, give your adress so that i can come into your house take your computer and throw it out of the fuckin window so that number of retards who browse this board can lessen by one.

>>53129352
Well this is science fantasy we're talking about. We aren't playing historicals. The Death Star thermal exhaust port trope comes to mind.

>>53129649
>AND WHO THE FUCK SAID IT DOESNT CHANGE YOU BLIND MONGREL
You did, when you called the guy who said it does change a
>retard beyond comparison.
And said that he
>[fails] at math you imbecile.

>>53129657
>Italian tankettes
The Italian tankettes are more like trucks with tracks and sheet metal bolted onto them and were laughingstocks compared to any serious armor of any other country.

I still don't like this "anything can hurt anything" rule.

we get it GW, you want us to play hordes

>>53128880
Not to break your spirit but toughness will most likely exceed 10 at some point

>>53129729
You wanted an example m8.

Don't try to move your goal posts now

>>53129744
Why does it bother you? It will add heroic moments to the game and will be generally fun.

I think it adds to the game.

>>53129713
Anon, calm the fuck down you illiterate autist.
Go back and read the original claim:
>So while it is theoretically possible to kill a gorkanaut with 18 lasgun shots, your chances of doing it are something like 1 in 10314424798490535546171949056. Quite unlikely.
now, in order to kill a naut with 18 shots, all would have to be 6s, and that is extremely low, as anon pointed out.

But then you went full speg and said that the claim when the number of dice rolled increases, the chance of rolling all 6s decreases, and decided everyone but you was a retard because you can't read.
Now get away from your keyboard and go drink some water, calm the fuck down and stop being a tard.

>>53129744
Think about it this way, if you're opponent actually tries to deal with your high T units with mass guardsmen shooting then at least you've auto-won because he spent his points in such a disastrously inefficient way.

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>>53129713
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>53129778
*But then you went full speg and said that the claim when the number of dice rolled increases, the chance of rolling all 6s decreases is wrong

>>53129753
Tankettes aren't tanks though. Heck, no one but Italy still used them post-1920/1930.

>>53129744
I'm way more bothered by the clunky ass damage tables for any big model. It'll slow the game down so much.

>>53129797
Really?

>>53129685

If everyone is talking all results being six than fuck everyone because they are carpet munchers who sucked so much carpet that they cant function as a normal human being when trying to mathhammer.
You dumb piece of shit americans suck at education so bad that anyone who can count from 1 to 100 is graduated from college.
I will take all your professors and line them up on a wall so that horses can crush their asses with their giant horse cocks.
Get the fuck out of this board you pimp son of a bitch, i will take my dice and throw it on your nothers cunt. Shut your computer down and go to sleep .

>>53129744
>we get it GW, you want us to play hordes
Well yes and no. Battleshock can be pretty hard on hordes. I don't think it's clear yet exactly what type of armies 8th will favor.

>>53128941
>the nobs inside would have finished the job

You got me
SOME NOBZ IN A NAUT

>>53129222
Holy shit nice b8

>>53129815
>If everyone is talking all results being six than fuck everyone because they are carpet munchers who sucked so much carpet that they cant function as a normal human being when trying to mathhammer.
Uhhhh, what? The entire conversation arose because one anon was afraid of lasguns oneshotting a titan.
You really aren't able to read, are you? Because you clearly can't follow a conversation.

>>53129815
Jesus anon, calm the fuck down.

It's nobody's fault but your own that you can't follow the thread.

>>53129815
Please calm down you titanic autist.

>>53129657
Laz guns aren't like bullets, they have no direct stopping power they really just melt their way into something.
I'll allow the idea that you have so many lazguns plasting one place (inst it 200 shots worth) could eventually melt into something vital.
but as it goes it shouldn't be all that possible
>>53129729
the British MK series that showed up in ww1, AP ammo went through them.
Any vickers tank,including the ones the poles used early war, MK 3 light tanks maybe even panzer 1-3, Matildas juniors, t7p tankett. etc
generally you are right though, those are light weird earily tanks.
>>53129753
i think he means more to the effect of infantry tanks like the char which the leman russ is based off of

>>53129778

This dumb fuck said this

>The larger the number of dice rolls (or coin flips, or whatever) the less likely it is that you'll deviate from the average.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE AVERAGE OF A DIE ROLL?
WHAT THE FUCK IS IT?
EVERY SIDE HAS THE SAME CHANCE TO COME UP IN EACH ROLL!

IF YOU WANT A SINGLE DIE TO COME UP IN VARIOUS NUMBER OF ROLLS EACH TIME OFCOURSE THE MOTHERFUCKIN CALCULATION CHANGES, BUT THIS MOTHER FUCKER USED THIS SENTENCE?


>The larger the number of dice rolls (or coin flips, or whatever) the less likely it is that you'll deviate from the average.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN ? I ASK AGAIN. THIS DUMB MOTHER FUCKER TRIES TO CALCULATE THE AVERAGE BY CALCULATING 2D6 S AND 4D6S AS STATED HERE
>>53128979

THIS IS PURE BATSHIT RETARDED,

>>53129815
it's time to stop posting.

you're clearly too mad to carry on a conversation.

>>53129296
here's your fuckin (you)
Get help. I'm not that dude, but as outside observer? there is no winner here.
Please get help

>>53129803
dude that's just wrong.
shit man tanketts fucking ended up in the general armies of everyone
at the very least
poland (t7p), england (vickers light), finland.
and just about every other small power really

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>>53129903
And I thought that I would get bored today.

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>>53129903

>>53129903
Been a while since I've seen someone sperg out this hard.

So they've simplified the S to T chart, why couldnt they do the same for WS? They could have used the same chart?

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>>53129657

>Italian tank(?) that has 14mm front armor gets penetrated by rifle
>A tank like tiger ı which has 100mm front armor, that is impervious to any rifle rounds
>autoguns in 40k have similiar calibre as a mauser round and autoguns have same stats as lasguns.
>Leman russ has 150mm front armor
>Autoguns can pen the leman russ with enough fire.

>>53130037
Wasn't half the joke of 40k that they're using laser guns and plasma cannons alongside absolute junk that's inferior to what we have today?

>>53130037
And what if some bullets and/or lasers breaches the tank's window ?
Ha-HA ! Checkmate, atheists.

>>53130037
not pen but slightly damage.
also lasbolts are energy weapons and tend to burn into the target (this is a + and a -, without actual physical objects and with very little puncture power it's not going to do all that much damage, you'd need volleys of it to sear away top layers of armour far enough to do actual damage but then again it's much better off than bullets)
also
> 8mm
what the shit is the imperuim doing
>>53130098
>drivers dead, no structural integrity sustained, new guy takes over.
also the russ has a slant on their window because of that.
shit needs a cupola to fucking drive

>>53130029
The way they did WS is both simpler and means WS and BS work the same way. And for the vast majority of combatants the fixed rolls work about as well as an opposed stat system. The only real downside is poorly reflecting the defenses of lightly armored models with extreme skill like Lelith Hesperax, but they can just reflect that with other things like Dodge saves.

>>53129903
>WHAT THE FUCK IS THE AVERAGE OF A DIE ROLL?
3.5

>>53130037

Yeah it's bullshit, the only thing I can think of is buttoning where they would shoot the sights to scare the crew and buy themselves some time but as for a rifle actually hurting a tank it's unheard of after WWII.

The simple fact is that GW are lazy and couldn't be arsed to fix the vehicles rules so just went for what's easier for them.

>be playing ig against orks, he's a real WAAC, he's running only nobs in a naut
>decide to kill a naut
>declare that I'm only going to have 18 of my 50 conscripts in a squad shoot at it
>orkbro asks me if I'm sure I don't want to have more of them shoot, so that I'm more likely to kill it
>"nah, you see, there's always a 1/6th chance that the outcome on a dice is a 6, no matter the number of dice, so that means the chance of me killing it is the same no matter what. If we graphed all possible outcomes of a number of dice being rolled, the function would be y=6, since there's only a 1/6th chance for each possible outcome of a roll
>orkbro says that's not right, there are more possible outcomes that are not all 6s then there are all of them being 6s, so it would be a bell curve that gets skinier and taller at the average outcome the more dice there are
>laugh in his face as there can't be an """"average outcome""""
>fail to kill the naut
>the nobs inside get out and table me next turn


Fucking Games Workshop.

>>53129903
>WHAT THE FUCK IS THE AVERAGE OF A DIE ROLL?
>WHAT THE FUCK IS IT?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

>>53130157
Maybe being surrounded by 200 men all shooting at them will make the crew run away

>>53130157
It's a good thing these are WWI tanks then

>>53129903
>WHAT THE FUCK IS THE AVERAGE OF A DIE ROLL?
The arithmetic mean is 3.5

>>53130157
Its as if this is a game that cares more about balance* than realism.

*weather or not it will be balanced remains to be seen

>>53130123
>drivers dead, no structural integrity sustained, new guy takes over.

Which is fluffed as the tank losing a wound out of the dozen or so it has.

If you go through enough minor things like that, you might shave off a few. If the tank has damage results like the naut, then it may be going slower and have worse BS. Represented by the new driver not being as good or going more cautiously since the last guy got shot, and the gunner suffering a similar fate or the barrels of the guns getting fucked up.

It really isn't that hard to imagine. At the point you finish off a tank's last wound with autoguns or whatever, it probably had a dew major dents and holes anyway

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>>53130186
>Maybe being surrounded by 200 men all shooting at them will make the crew run away
>in tank immune to the gunfire.
>oh shit let's bail out and be shot, there are so many bullets flying ourway.
WHO TRAINED THESE IDIOTS

>>53130186

It might make them laugh, for most crew buttoning would work once if they were fresh out of training, after that they realised something GW hasn't, rifles cannot hurt you when you're in a tank.

>>53130188

The design is archaic (inter-war period in most cases) but the armour is much thicker and even in WWI British and German tanks were impervious to everything other than an anti-tank rifle. Hence what tanks were created for, to get across no mans land unharmed. It was only weird tankette designs that they didn't make bulletproof.

>shoot exposed hydraulics and wires on a titan
>it might conceivably take a wound
>time to burn my knight titan househild on youtube while chanting "fuck gw! fuck gw! age of emperor is shit! fuck gw!"
I can't wait to ally Fabius "Titan Killer" Bile into every army I play.

>>53130157
This is a fix in everything that matters. While lasgun not being able to hurt tanks could be more "realistic" in a game the existence of a type of units that is immune to lots of weapons results in situations like >>53129320

It's a relative sacrifice of realism that can be easily handwaved for a better game.

>>53129903
You hve to be >18 to post here

>>53129903

I'm the one who posted it, thanks for the entertainment.

>WHAT THE FUCK IS THE AVERAGE OF A DIE ROLL?

3.5, obviously. I thought autists were supposed to be good at maths?

>WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN ? I ASK AGAIN. THIS DUMB MOTHER FUCKER TRIES TO CALCULATE THE AVERAGE BY CALCULATING 2D6 S AND 4D6S AS STATED HERE

The mean on 2D6, the centre of the distribution, is 7. On 3D6 it's 10.5. The distribution has a curve, such that results closer to that centre are more likely. The more dice you roll, the steeper the shape. 1 D6 is flat, meaning that every outcome is equally likely. 2D6 is a gentle curve, meaning that results closer to the centre, 7, are a little more common. 3D6 and 4D6 are steeper still, indicating that outlying results become more and more unlikely.

It's a little like IQ distribution - most people fall close to the centre of the distribution and are capable of normal mental function, but that doesn't mean that you don't get the occasional case towards the extreme ends of the curve, as you yourself have been demonstrating in this thread.

>>53130197

Loads of games that are balanced still manage to have a separation between infantry and armour.

This is what got people so butthurt over AoS, GW is taking the piss out of it's fan base, seeing how little effort they can expend and yet people still try and defend them and lap it up.

>>53130123
>>53130098

What is bullet proof glass?

>>53127011
Tau battlesuits could already do this though....

>>53130326

More to the point, the way tank sights work it's either an electronic display with a camera or a periscope design with mirrors that mean a round couldn't get in.

These threads sure are hot today.

>>53130357
Just wait tomorrow when we'll learn about characters

>>53129744
Nah, it's to prevent new players who only bought infantry dudes from rage quitting because someone brought a knight house or armoured company against them.

>>53130326
BP glass doesn't really matter
I was conceding the point assuming a drive died that it really doesn't scale out to a proper wound loss.
That is to say, even if we assume a driver dies, there isn't say 20 fucking dudes in the tank to take over.
so it can't feasibly be that alone.