/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53124986
Not wholly sold on the premise. Would rather find a playgroup for lost

Does Hunter: The Vigil have something like the Innocent creed that Hunter: The Reckoning had?

>>53125024
The Talbot Group compact.

Can Space be used to make continental crossing portals like the Doctor Strange movie?

>>53125478
You mean those doors? Yeah.

>>53125492
How many dots required?

>>53125510
At least 4, I would say. Maybe just 3 with Reach.

>>53125542
>>53125510
Two. Co-Location is technically a 2-dot spell, although you can't do the portals properly without at least 3 Reach (one to make it visible, one to make it a 2-dimensional plane, and one to use Sympathy). You can still, however, take it as a starting Rote, which gives you 4 Reach to use. It's one of the more useful rotes to get.

>>53126174
I thought Co-Location was a Disciple spell, Weaving Practice.

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I'm a Mage in a crossover game, and I want to take my Uratha pals to visit the Anima Mundi. Do werewolves (or other supernaturals) have any defense against the Ecstatic Wind?

>>53126196
So it is. Just checked the book. Still, the Rote should be able to allow you to create Paradox-free Doctor-Strange-style portals on a whim.

>>53125478
I would say it's pretty much Co-Location (Space 3) with possibly some Prime thrown in to make it normally visible.

>>53125024
Yuri's group is kinda similar.

>>53126199

Werewolves are immune to the ecstatic wind. They don't even notice it.

(That's from an as-yet unpublished book, so.. Uh.. spoiler!)

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>>53127649
Our lord and savior who is definitely not an exarch

>>53127649

Speaking of unpublished books, will there be more for Requiem?

Old Clan Tzimisce tend to be really low generations, right? Like 5th and 6th?

>>53126199
>>53127649
>>53127666

Rules of thumb, before the official version makes it out:

If something has a human or former-human spirituality, the ecstatic wind applies. Use their Supernatural Tolerance Trait instead of Gnosis, invent some horrible "fuck you" for dying to the wind depending on what it is.

If it has a animal-like spirituality, like a werewolf or a Changing Breed, it's immune and can go gambolling through the Dreaming Earth all it likes.

If it's alien but pretending to be human, like a Promethean or a Demon, use its Integrity Trait instead of Supernatural Tolerance, and dying strips a dot of it off. No, Mr Ulgan, you do not have a real soul yet.

>>53127730
Old Clan Tzimisce doesn't make sense

>>53128008

What makes you say that?

>>53128034
Tzimisce Ante created vicissitude, how do his children not have it?

>>53128060

They might just choose not to use it?

>>53124986
Anything new on Deviant?

>>53125478
The whole point of space is that the distance doesn't matter...c'mon man. The mechanics that allow this require level 3 to do personally and 4 to do as a portal for a group, but anywhere on earth or beyond is acceptable provided you have sympathy.

>>53127649
Astral Realms wasn't published? Jeez, I must have a gotten a bootleg somehow.

>>53123285
Seers of the Throne p 147, sidebar "counting soldiers", second paragraph.

>>53123621
In a lot of ways, that's for the sin eater to figure out. Deal with the demands of your Geist, pursue what you wanted but were afraid to do beforehand. deal with the dead and the underworld. Sort of like Mediums in Wraith, except you're one of the bigger things out there and the underworld usually isn't quite as terrible as the wraith universe was.

The tagline is a "storytelling game of second chances" and while you may not be able to undo the mistakes of the past, you can set things right.

>>53128060
They have it, but if they use it, they are much more subtle with it.

>>53128143
I prefer "everything is connected" to "distance is an illusion, maaaann."

Also Goetia is like the hellbaby of the Avatar from OMage and the Holodeck from Star Trek.

>>53128417
>They have it
No, they don't. Old Clan considers vicissitude a disease and don't have as a clan discipline

>>53128034
>>53128079

Because Tzimisce himself and pretty much all of his immediate childre are masters of Vicissitude (one even turning into a virus that spread across Africa).

The "Old Clan", are really just a bunch of hipsters who sit at around Gen 6 and 7 that decided that claim some heritage to the "real" clan tzimisce before it was "infected" with vicissitude which is just factual bullshit.

The reason it doesn't make sense is because by the standards of the discipline they shun, they're pretty fucking young.

>>53128443

I heard that too, guess someone else BSed me at some point or I remembered it wrong.

>>53128583

IIRC they reject the use of Vicissitude precisely because it ties them to their Antediluvian.

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>>53127798
I'm curious how would other splats like werewolves or demons even reach the astral?

Are there connection in realms like the shadow?

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>>53127798
HOLD ON there just a second...

Dave, at the climax of the story you wrote for the Primordial Feast Anthology in 2015, a Beast's soul is destroyed by the Ecstatic Wind. Is a Beast not considered an "animal-like spirituality"? Are we seriously supposed to believe that you don't formulate your obscure crossover-game GM rulings at least three years in advance of a potential book needing them?

on a slightly less pedantic note can i please get an estimate on when you'll update The Man Comes Around, i thought it would be during the "waiting on art/editing/approval" phase of mage 2e since you said you'd only update it when you didn't have a book to write but i was wrong please help it's been so long my family is dying

>>53129300
Demons have can open gates and physically enter the astral. As for werewolves, who gives a shit.

>>53129427
beasts have no souls just like prometheans so probably dont ignore it like WW and furries.

>>53129300
Technically anyone can meditate into the Astral if a mage pays the Mana cost, or maybe even if they have an item with some Mana stored.

Beyond that, there are naturally-occurring gates between the Temenos Realm of Death and the Underworld. There's probably something similar in the deep Shadow.

>>53129427
In the story Magic was involved so 'the rules' kind of go out the window.

>>53129449
You're not curious what would happen if the woofs wondered to the edge of Oroboros and started talking with the Old Man?

>>53129692
He is going to share abyssal cookies with them?

>>53124986
Im planning on running a c20 game. Thinking of setting hacking it where the thallain have figured out a way to bring the dreaming into thw autumn world in a small localized area. Think the bio merge fields from Digimon season 3

>>53128008
>Old Clan Tzimisce doesn't make sense
>>53129030
>IIRC they reject the use of Vicissitude precisely because it ties them to their Antediluvian.

^ This.

The Old Clan want to be independent, thus why so many of them refuse to associate with Tzimisce (the founder).

That said, not every member of the Old Clan refuses to use or learn Vicissitude, but most do... and the ones that *don't* refuse it view the main clan's use of the discipline as "vulgar and childish" because they always opt for the more monstrous features of it, rather than simply exploring the more "subtle" nuances of having eyes that close vertically or six fingers on each hands, etc.

>>53130233

Dark Ages 20th anniversary has this one kind of neat fluff addition that mentions one Tzimisce's suspicions that it's the Kupala's influence that's nudging the Tzimisce as a Clan towards monstrous and inhuman forms when using Vicissitude.

>>53130057
And lemonade.

> Shape Mastery: Cause shapeshifters to revert to their natural form

Does this actually have an effect on Garou?

>>53130821
are they shapeshifters? YES then YES...ffs

>>53130821
>>53131001
I would say it does, but immediately causes them to go into their war form.

Question: What rule adjustments would you have to make to 2e CofD to make mage supremacy not a thing while still letting mages retain their basic archetype?

>>53131059
Disallow spells that instantly fuck other splats. No de-shifting werewolves, no handheld suns, etc.

>>53131030
Only if the war form is their natural form.

>>53131059
You dont need to adjust any rules, just dont crossover. Dont let there be special snowflakes in your game that dilute or even oppose the theme of whatever game your playing.

Think very very hard on why your even allowing a crossover, is it for max lols or cos one of your players is a supersxsplatfan and wont play anything else...

>>53130821
>Does this actually have an effect on Garou?

The power's description (In V20 Lore of the Bloodlines) specifically mentions that it confounds the native shapeshifting abilities of Lupines and Fae.

>>53131146
I would argue that it is.

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>>53131174
Sorry, V20 Lore of the CLANS (page 87-88). My mistake.

>>53131174
>>53131201

I'm looking through the wiki article, rather than the book, just skimming some stuff, but thanks.

>>53131183
I would argue that it isn't. Your natural form is the the form that you're in naturally, i.e. your born body. So unless they're a Metis, the war form isn't their natural form.

>>53131059
Their basic archetype is "Holy shit look at all this cosmic power, hope I don't go crazy!", so if anything you would need to buff the other splats if you want to get around Supremacy without changing that.

>>53131234
>Metis

Heh.

"REVERT TO YOUR TRUE FORM!"

"Yeah, abOUT THAT..."

>>53131089
I also saw something in the last thread about exceptional success ignoring withstand, I'm assuming that's also something to get rid of?

>>53131161
>>53131262
I understand, but if I wanted to make mages play nice with the other splats, how would I do it?

Best/worst clans go.

Best: Toreador/Brujah, simple, flexible, can play a ton of different characters in a ton of different games.

Worst: Giovanni, they are painfully one-dimensional, overdone Italian mobsters with a less interesting Tremere backstory/discipline.

>>53131481
This guy has the right of it >>53131089
Just nerf their most ridiculous spells, tack on some qualifier that doesn't let them summon sunlight, detransform werewolves, probably also make it so you need more dots in Time to avoid ambushes and the like.

>>53131561
Then your not playing a mage, your playing a fucking cosplaying harry potter wizard wannabe.

>>53131547

>best

Lasombra and Tzimisce. The former because Obtenebration. The latter because Koldunic sorcery.

>worst

Giovanni, because they're just boring.

>>53131089

Actually, during a bad death rage, i'd really appreciate a deshifting spell.

And Handheld suns are a pale reflection of the real thing. Annoying rather than lethal.

>>53131547
>>53131707

>hating on the Godsire and enforcing Omerta beyond the Grave

Plebes. Ravnos is the boring stereotype, not Giovanni.

>>53131850

> Ravnos is the boring stereotype

Only if you're an idiot who doesn't look past the most shallow approach to a Ravnos, i.e. gypsies.

In W20 is stepping sideways some sort of teleport?

Do you reappear instantly somewhere else, or do you just go into the Umbra and then must rolla again to reappear?

Also how do you know where to go while stepping sideways if it works like a teleport?

>>53131925
Isn't stepping sideways literally just sliding into the spirit world? Like you aren't physically changing your location, just going to a different plane or whatever.

>>53132042
I don't really know. In the example of play in the core book a guy steps sideways to follow a fomori and he ends up inside a Pentex building

>>53131858
>gypsies
Isn't that the approach White Wolf took? Their Ppath literally makes them stereotypes.

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>>53132274

Dunno, I always skipped those bits, always liked the Hindu mythos far better.

>>53129427

Beasts are formerly human, so it'd apply.

>>53132355
Depends what part of the shit tier rewrite that isn't coherent at all you read.

>>53132355
On the one hand, anybody can be a Beast! It's something random that happens!

On the other, only people born with the potential to be a Beast can ever become a Beast!

>>53132383

If we've gotta no-prize it:

Even in Homecoming style Beasts, they're still born with a human soul that either mutates into a Horror or gets fused with a Horror as part or a Beast's natural lifecycle. Hence, getting Wind'd still applies.

>>53132469
>On the other, only people born with the potential to be a Beast can ever become a Beast!
I preferred this, even if the original text left some sjw cucks reading it as offensive. At least the original writing of it seemed to be a cohesive idea. Its also what it said originally, and still what seems to be peppered through other beast texts as well. Not just a mess of a book. a mess of a game line.

>>53131850
>during a bad death rage
That's the risk you run with an Uratha tank in the group, nothing can kill it, but it might try to kill you.

>>53132840
Put vampire/promethean on as a tank. Move woof to damage department

So I'm designing a home-brew proximi dynasty based on the Jem-hadar from Star Trek. Fanatical super soldiers that are obsessively loyal to their masters.

Would they be a better fit for the Silver Ladder, Adamantine Arrow, or Seers?

As for arcana I was thinking Fate, Forces, and Prime.

Any advice?

>>53133074
>Fanatical super soldiers that are obsessively loyal to their masters
Seers bby.

>>53131059
Remove exceptional success ignoring withstand, make arana cost more. Maybe fuck around with how withstand works a little and individual spell affects here and there. Done.

>>53126096
Hmmm, was going to humor you with various counterpoints until I realized you haven't actually touched anything regarding Umineko.
I suggest you actually research before you spew blatant sewage. Thank you.

You need to learn to ditch bias.

>>53133122
Cool. What about arcana? I'm debating between Fate and Life. Life could explain their unnatural physiology. But Fate would bee good at explaining the oath bound.

>>53133174
The "I am an authority of power ranks" anon was an idiot. Ignore it.

>>53133156
>Remove exceptional success ignoring withstand
Unmaking still just works automatically against anyone with under 5 stamina, given the automatic potency a Master would have.

>>53133252
That's why I added fucking around with how base withstand works. To be fair though I get rid of that even in non crossover mage games. It just gets kinda boring once the PC's are at the level where they can just wave their hands and make any problem go away.

>>53133343
Its not as simple of a change as you seem to imply, it would require a reworking of the entire magic system.

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>>53133174
Not this again.
I will still bite.

His biggest mistake was disregarding the fact that each book in Featherine's library-city contains each fictional universe ever devised, her Author Authority extending over them all. She's by definition above other fictional works if you take this into account.
But then you have other fictional settings with similar premises, such as The Dark Tower by Stephen King.

She's definitely one of the strongest fictional characters ever written.
She's technically omnipotent, if not for the crown she wears to contain her identity from being assimilated by the Creator.

>>53133221
I would say go for Fate, Life, and Forces.

>>53133376
It absolutely wouldn't. Hell simply counting withstand as 1 or 2 higher than normal against making/unmaking so a mage can't simple delete a max level character works well enough.

>>53131059
Why do mages need to be dumbed down? It makes complete sense for them to be above most others.

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My vampire hunting PC's are about to attack the Sabbat Temple.

Could you guys provide me with some pics of Tzimisce War Ghouls? I could use a little inspiration for what kind of horrors they'll be fighting.

>>53133459
>wwaaaahhh mages can one shot me

Oh please, just stop and shut the fuck up. You're playing the games wrong if combat is your sole focus.

>>53133541
That's absolutely not what I was saying at all, but thanks for trying.

>>53133421
Two of the Arcana have to be from a parent path. So an Obrimos w/ Life would be pretty amazing for a group of super soldiers that fight mages.

Perhaps the minor curse for the proximi could involve a physiological defect like from Star Trek that causes them to slowly wither and die unless they consume tass or something. Making them physically dependent on their seer masters.

>>53133555
>waaaaaaahhh mages can solve anything with a wave of their hand

Better?

>>53133569
Closer at least. The game becomes dull and incredibly hard to plan out games for when I have to pull out reasons for the PC's to not end any and all conflict with a single dice roll.

>>53133566
>Two of the Arcana have to be from a parent path
Right. For some reasons I was thinking this was more like a Legacy thing. I need to sleep.

I would say go with Life then. You can still put a geas on them though.

TRINITY WHEN?

>>53133617
When everybody can end conflicts with a single dice roll it comes a cold war scenario. You can still play decent games and shit within those confines. If everybody is a nuke, you find other ways to get shit done with can lead to all sorts of problems, easily solved or not. As long as there are concequences for each action eventually shit will star stacking up and provide a challenge.

Ran a 1e game with eventually 3 duel masters for around 4 years, (note have first game in 2012 and 1 game a week till 2016) it never got dull. Even in 2e i doubt it would be dull either, for every conflict that can be ended with a single dice roll, theres one that can be started with one too..

When a vampire arrives to a Camarilla-held city and they introduce themselves to the Prince that rules the domain, do they usually also volunteer information on what Clan they are?

>>53133768
Yes, when they present themselves they read out their pedigree
>I am x, childe of y, childe of z, childe of Set

It's an easy way for the prince to know when he has a plebeian on his hands

>>53133751
The problem here is that Masters are like 10x more powerful than even BP 10 Elders.

You can still have good games, it's just harder to function.

>>53133768
Every Larp ive played it that would be a yes. Would it happen ingame properly, meh vtm puts alot of focus on "Muh clan" so i think they would be expected to provide some form of letter of introduction from their sire/mentor/prince of where ever they are from to prove they are not aassbandit, but wether than includes ones clan is probably up to the prince.

>>53133751
This might be a group thing, but in my experience it doesn't become cold war at all, and more of a blitzkrieg. My players just do whatever they can to be the ones to roll their dice before the other guys and then they win.
Besides that isn't precisly what I was talking about. I know mage vs mage conflict can still be meaningful, but it gets rid of the other cool antagonists of the setting. Remember those men in black guys from the summoners book? Remember all the other weird stuff spread out all over the WoD? I can't really build stories around any of that once the PC's are all master level. They just need to mage sight at it to figure out what arcanum it falls under and then one unmaking roll later the problem is gone. I can work around this some times with extenuating circumstances, but the point is it gets tiring to do that every single time I want a none mage villain to show up.

>>53133768
A similar question, how do supernatural politics play out in a city? When you have urban werewolves, vampires, changelings, and mages all doing business in one city they're bound to cross paths.

>>53133800

What happens if the vampire in question doesn't know their sire? Not necessarily a Caitiff, but let's say their sire just manages to turn them, something happens and they get killed or taken away by parties unknown?

Also, how can they know if you're telling the truth as to which Clan you might be?

>>53133857
If your players are Masters running around Unmaking things with wild abandon then you need to hit them with the kind of consequences a crazy Master would face. Hit squads from the various splats, cold shoulder from anybody who isn't trying to kill them, Wisdom loss, the attention of powerful entities, etc.

>>53133863
create in a world where those dont exist, bingo problem solved.

>>53133890
Well, then he knows he's got a pleb in his court.

And yeah, you can lie to him, but if he finds out you're in for a world of pain

>>53133890
probably some form of test could tell what clan a vampire belonged too, they have pretty testable curses, hell theres always that one Tremere who'll offer to taste your blood for you too. Personally if prince if you dont know who your sire is, then your more trouble than your worth, have nobody else i can punish if you fuck up so that person will stop you fucking up, so i'd tell you to get on your bike and fuck off.

>>53133924
It's not a problem. I'm interested in how it would play out. I don't want to do a crossover game or anything but the other splats can be used to add flavor to a game.

>>53133937

>Well, then he knows he's got a pleb in his court.

So he could just basically gets some low-tier vampire in the organization to keep an eye on you, I presume, so you don't mess up the local scene? Or would he tell the vampire to fuck off?

>>53133965

Huh. Thanks for explaining this. And seriously, would anyone really give up a drop of their blood to a Tremere? There has to be some kind of taboo against this sort of shit.

>>53133921
inbefore, "They would just unmake those too"

>>53133673
Who fucking knows. Which is kind of weird now that I think about it, we got some nice previews of the various factions from the main book I think but its been radio silence for what, half a year now?

>>53133993
It means he can treat you like trash and since you don't know your sire there won't be repercussions

>>53134027
So do the Princes just relentlessly bully every Gangrel that comes breezing through? Gangrels are typically abandoned iirc.

>>53134062
What those bestial masq breach fucks with no obfuscate? Gtf out my city you fucking dog faced freak!

>>53134006
Close. Last update was in march actually, but last update before that was April 2016.

>>53134062
Depends whether it's before or after they left the Camarilla.

Before, the local Gangrel primogen will probably take care of them.

After, some princes have a shoot-on-sight policy on Gangrel

>>53133664
A'ight what I got so far.

"The Bound"
Appearance: Paramilitary in dress and demeanor with sinewy muscle and silvery scarred flesh. Curt and strandoffish in social interactions.
Parent path: Obrimos
Blessings (Forces, Prime, Life): (Kinetic Efficiency •, Nightvision •, Receiver •, Environmental Shield ••, Invisibility ••, Kinetic blow ••, Telekinetic Strike •••, Pierce Deception •, Supernal Vision •, Word of Command •, Wards and Signs ••, Words of Truth ••, Channel Mana •••, Analyze Life •, Cleanse the Body •, Web of Life •, Body Control ••, Honing the Form •••)

Curse: The bound are compelled to follow the commands of the exarchs and their betters within the Seer Hierarchy. Every member of the bound dynasty is under the effects of an unbreakable form of the 'mystery commands' condition with the requirement that they follow the commands of the highest ranking seer.

Persistant:The bound is under the effects of the deprived condition at all times.

Severe: If the bound hasn't received and followed an order from a Seer superior or disobeys one at least once per day they will suffer 1 resistant lethal damage daily until they do.

Oblations:Combat training or preparation, worship of the exarchs, caring for and tending sacred Komodo dragon.

>>53134062
I imagine most Gangrel avoid the local prince and his officers like the plague unless they're intentionally trying to start shit

>>53134488

Myrmidons already exist and they're pretty much this

>>53131850
>bad death rage

Is it possible to have a *good* death rage?

>>53133921
>Hit squads from the various splats
Unmaking isn't limited to a single target. Hit squads are going to be promptly deleted
>cold shoulder from anybody who isn't trying to kill them
This is normal for Masters
>Wisdom loss
Who needs Wisdom? Only weaklings stick to their morals!
>the attention of powerful entities
Such as other Masters, Supernal natives and Abyssal horrors.

>>53134705
Goddammit.

Is it mandatory to be an asshole when one achieves Mastery in an Arcanum?

>>53134801
Can any Arcanum use Unmaking to destroy any enemy?

>>53135205
Depends on the arcanum and the enemy. Magic is incredibly versatile but there are still situations where one arcana is a better choice.

>>53135391
Then there you go. Send enemies that aren't under the purview of the five dot Arcanum. Not to mention that these white room assumptions are annoying. Sure a Mage can pull off nearly anything in theory, but it's a vastly different story in practice.

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I guess Mr. Gone isn't doing character sheets anymore, which sucks, I really liked his interactive character sheets. So I made one myself for C20. It's not perfectly aligned and some of the textboxes are a little weird but it should work, I just cooked this up in like an hour.

Because, you know, you guys love CtD here so very, very much.

>>53135435
>Send enemies that aren't under the purview of the five dot Arcanum

Will nearly never be the case, unless you bring in Abyssal horrors

>>53135619
Then do that.

Since we're circle jerking about mage supremacy yet again. One of my players came up with an idea for aggressive negotiations with a group of vampire NPCs. He'd spy on them from spirit twilight until they're alone then he'd drag them into twilight while he returns to the normal world where he'd activate spirit armor and proceed to beat on them or sick some spirit allies on them until they start playing ball.

Other than the political fallout that's going to happen is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

>>53132931
this is a solid swap unless someone is throwing silver around then your DPS [DPT?] woof will very quickly start their Where the Red Fern Grows impression

>>53135810
Can't auspex see twilight entities? Or am I remembering wrong.

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Had my second couple of games today. Lost everything except the table of other newcomers. Though there were lessons learned.
- difference between 0 Intercept and 1 Intercept is massive, need to get me some Motorbikes
- drawing no Master is bad, but drawing 5 Masters is worse, need to get me some Trifles
- when the whole table is politics your combat cards are wasted because everybody will Strike: Combat Ends anyway
- when whole table is combat you vote-boosts are wasted because your referendum will be passing anyway
- Govern is nasty
- I seriously fucked up by not pre-ordering Anthology when there was the chance
- fucking up your Predator bad enough they need to leave you alone and focus on their own survival is good, fucking up your Predator bad enough they get ousted makes you next on the chopping block and not recognizing the difference between the two can cost you game
- successfully diablerizing Inner Circle with random low capacity little shit makes me feel things usually only associated with female nudity and most tasteful of the Chinese cartoons

Someone please upload Rio!

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>>53136325
oh, I'm gonna upload something for you alright

>>53136352
You can fuck right off.

>>53136352
>cast Repel, specify werewolf knot

>>53136352
Don't tease if you won't please.

>>53136352
I'd rather suck flaccid vampire schlong than receive your tiny chode of a knot.

Why is New World of Darkness so shit and Old World of Darkness absolutely perfect?

>>53136137
From what I remember they can if they're actively projecting their conscience into twilight but they don't have a way to passively perceive what's happening unlike woofs or mages.

>>53136752
Is this bait? I think this is bait.

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>>53136752

>>53133673
For that matter whens the next scion update?

>>53136752
oWoD came about at the right time in the hands of the right people. Whatever mis-steps were made, they made a game that had balls and wasn't afraid to be transgressive. More importantly, it was something different.

>>53136913
>>53136931
Don't worry. You might get a 20th Anniversary edition in 2024.

>>53136752
>Why is New World of Darkness so shit and Old World of Darkness absolutely perfect?

Because everything good that came from OWoD was WW incompetence allowing fans to attribute meanings/themes to the games that were better than what they originally intended.

By NWoD they iron out they incompetence enough so we dont miss interpret their "vision" but not enough to not make it mostly shit.

>>53137749
>>53137810
Nice opinions.

Would a crusader/matyr who got burned at the stake be a valid concept for my sin eaters giest, and if so what is it likely to have besides pyre flame? Passion maybe?

>>53137839
Don't know much about Geist but maybe just cut out the fire and go straight for burning and pain? Like instead of attacking with fire you attack by directly inflicting burns. Either way it sounds good to me. The Geist has a reason to want to come back and will have a personality based on it, so yeah.

>>53136352

>Not eifel towering a mummy with your mage spouse in order to make a cummy mummy

fail

>>53136752

Because NWoD actually stands for Normie World of Darknesss

>>53137819
Not an argument.

>>53138049
Neither are your opinions. They're just claims.

>>53138113
Well, no. That's called an argument. I made an assertion and stated my rationale for making it. Yes, it's based on my opinion but you don't even have that.

Soooo... nothing personell kid.

>>53131707
>The former because Obtenebration. The latter because Koldunic sorcery.

It's people like you that made the stupid trend of "give everyone blood sorcery for shits and giggles"

>>53138269
>It's people like you that made the stupid trend of "give everyone blood sorcery for shits and giggles"

Archmages bless that kind of people. BLOOD MAGIC PARTY!

>>53138208
>assertion
Literally a claim.

>my rationale
If by "rationale" you mean you just elaborated on your opinion.

>based on my opinion
>opinion

Right, so you just made claims and stated opinions. Glad we're on the same page here. And I do have an opinion, that being that nWoD is fine and that it's retarded to hate one setting over the other.

>>53138308
>nWoD is fine and that it's retarded to hate one setting over the other.

I hate both, i am trapped in a abusive relationship with both WoDs.....send help.

Magefags: if you HAD to romance a being from one of the other splats, which would it be? Obviously, discounting the obvious, natural choice of the knot

>>53138860
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only sane choice if you HAVE to romance a WoD entity is a hunter. You want to deal with as little supernatural bs as you can manage

>>53138860
Leaning towards either a Daeva vampire or Fariest Changeling.

>>53138918
Even better

Get an Archmaster to mix the two and create a fairy vampire Template as your personal waifu/husbando

>>53133074
>Fanatically loyal super-soldiers
Sounds Praetorian, or perhaps Hegemony to me.

>>53138860
Changeling.
Just learn about 2-3 dots of Fate, and she'll basically worship the ground you walk on.

>>53139034

>basically rape

>>53138860
Geist or Purified.

>>53139127
>Having something people want, such that they'll stay with you even if they would otherwise want to leave, is rape
How's that Gender Studies course going Anon?

>>53138860
Nope, not the knot (heh), sorry.

Female werewolf. Preferably a frank,
straightforward Lupus with a beautiful Homid form, in the vein of Aiobheall.

Vampires are physically more attractive than werewolves

You can't prove me wrong.

>>53139743
This is kind of a matter of personal preference tbqhwyf. I mean, I agree with you, but some people might be into the other sort.

Alice Madness Returns is the story of an OWOD CHangeling going through the Chrysalis. just sayin

>>53139779
Anyone who disagrees has converted over to the knot and shouldn't be regarded as relevant.

>>53139743
>Dead person lurching to life each sundown leaking blood
>Half beast full of fangs and fur and claws, muscle and skin snapping into different shapes
>Both could snap and go berserk at a moments notice and rip you in half
Neither one are particularly lovely.

>>53139869
Agreed. Changeling best waifu.

>>53139743
On what grounds? Not arguing, just curious.

>>53139888
None of the splats are anything I would really call relationship material, but hey at least you get variety with them.

>>53139901
Twilight fantasies maybe?
Seriously, bloodsucking corpses are not attractive.

>>53139917
I'd rather fuck a corpse than a dog.

>>53139917
>>53139932
But both have a functional veil of humanity...

>>53139939
I'd rather fuck a corpse pretending to be a human than a dog pretending to be a human.

>>53139888
agreed.

>>53139901
Not that anon, but being unable to age or be scarred (depending on the clan) is a plus, they're hardy.

>>53139903
depends on the individual and how much you'd be willing to join them or if you'd be willing to put them through the pain of losing you.

>>53139947
Aren't werewolves functionally immortal? They never die of old age, and they're equally hardy, if by other mechanisms.

>>53139997
Werewolves aren't immortal, but they live to the peak of human lives. Similar to mages.

>>53139997
I mean sure, but in OWOD they'll eventually die fighting either the Weaver or the Wyrm, and in NWOD they'll die doing their job.

Not to mention you either get Abuse or you become a Sub with either

>>53140032
>Not to mention you either get Abuse or you become a Sub with either
That's the best part about dating one

>>53139932
>>53139946
Its possible to not be attracted to both dogs or corpses.

>>53140099
I want to be an equal. Not a sub or a dom. An equal.

>>53140132
Don't date outside of templates then.

>>53140227
so I should date Changelings and Sin-Eaters then?

Splats have a dance off

Who wins?

>>53140399
Mage channels the power of the Astral and Fate to perform an impeccable routine, with peerless skill.

Vamp wins because they suck off the judge.

>>53140399
Promethean dance squad

>>53140129
It was an either/or proposition, sadly.

>>53140399
Demon by doing the robot

Is there a specific reason why you can't use matter magic to change the state of organic matter like cotton or wood?

>>53140752
No. Those substances are inert.
Go for it.

>>53140752
You can alter those specific substances. Some of the Arcana overlap in certain areas.

>>53138308
The thing about oWoD is that it's almost like the creators didn't fully understand what they had. They had lightning in a bottle and when they put something out, it was either great, or it was crap. But they made the world first and then filled in the details and the rules.

And then sales tippled off. Every interview I've seen on this topic says that towards the end of the revised era, sales started dropping off. The RPG bubble had popped and so they started planning a hard reboot. And just to be safe, they dropped all of the harder elements. Oh... vampires descend from Abrahamic origins? Well, now no one remembers where they come from. Our werewolves fight literally evil multi-nationals on the eve of the end times? Well, we'll just make them the spirit world border patrol. Our Mages fight for freedom over control? Well, we'll kind of keep that theme but lets write out the possibility of doing anything because you can't lay a finger on the exarchs and we never have to move the plot forward.

It was safe. It was based on best practices. It was a bad assumption. nWoD exists because of a mistake.

>>53138860
Werewolf... all the way. But only female werewolves. Have you ever had a girl who likes to be on top and knows what she's doing? Fucking amazing.

>>53140830
>>53140843

Not that anon but can I still use Life to turn cotton or say dandelion spores into bees? Or would it need to be still on the tree or other wise relatively 'fresh'.

>>53140848
I'm uncertain. I think for Life to have purview, it still has to be living. i.e. attached as an inherent part of the living being.

Some of the terms in the "purview" section like "food" are FAR too open for interpretation for my liking.

>>53140752
If there is it would be that magic runs off supernal logic, so those atoms or whatever don't really matter in the face of which arcana that symbol falls under. I mean I'm not sure if that's how things actually work, but keep that in mind for weird fringe cases of magic shit.

So with equal skills how hard is for a mage without access to prime kill of one that has it?

>>53141127
depends, the prime mage can counterspell all the other mages spells no matter arcana, can dispell ones already active, and have a magic shield up giving him withstand vs spells that normally dont get one vs like direct damage spells, so they would have some advantage but they would consantly need to be on the defensive.

>>53141127
Prime's use as a defensive measure is a delaying tactic, not a solution.
If you're spending your action each turn Counterspelling, there's not that much you can do.
So unless they're burning mana, willpower, and/or increasing Paradox trying to attack you, you're in a bad situation.

Do Gangrels even use human ghouls?

>>53141212
Yes

>>53141212
why wouldnt they, as much as like to think of them as raging wolffaced fags, they arnt all fucking retards.

>>53141211
There's more than just Counterspell going for a Prime mage, as a reminder. But you're right nonetheless.

>>53141227
hey fuck you, im right too, i mentioned counterspell, dispell and withstand...

>>53141211
>>53141203
Alright I was just pondering since I don't play mage and I wanted a scene of recurring seer of the throne npc getting dropped in front of the players(that is plausible from rules stand point). Thanks for answer

>>53141233
I'm sorry for not noticing you, senpai.

>>53140848
I'd let you do it. My philosophy is instead of agonizing over mechanics if there is some confusion for which arcana a spell falls under I'll let you pick your poison or say it's a +1 reach effect.

I can hunt through the rulebook after a game session if it's going to be an issue.

>>53141239
Some arcana have so much utility e.g. prime, fate, space you'd almost always want to splash at least two dots into them at some point or find an imbued item/artifact.

>>53141294
2e imbued items are shit. shit dicepools = no spell factors, reach? no explanation how that works with imbued items.

try make a imbued item that can scry a person if you have a drop of blood but no name (withstand 2) with enough potency to beat withstand. gluck with base 2 dice and a -2 penalty at least + duration...

>>53141354
Imbued items need a lot more explanation, I just can't figure out how they're supposed to work.

Similar story with Proximi.
Their dice pools are just so pathetic, with no real reach, and almost no way to enhance it.

>>53141354
Signs of Sorcery is going to elaborate more on Imbued Items, I believe.

Or I could be wrong. I don't know. They seem fine to me.

>>53141405
Have you actually tried to make one?

Even a small amount of spell factors involved will make anybody using it without gnosis have a chance dice or close to it.

Good luck trying to get advanced duration. Even if you can reach with items (no text not it) thats a paradox dice on top of your already low dicepool.

Hopefully signs and sorcery is going to have bettter meaty mechanics for imbued items. Which is why im chomping at the bit for it

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>>53133473

Sure, I've got a few that I use for inspiration.

Here's number one.

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>>53133473

Here's number two.

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>>53133473

Number three.

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>>53133473

Number four.

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>>53133473

They just keep on comin'.

>>53141405
Imbued items are GARBAGE. Artifacts are better in almost every respect.

Imbued items:
- Take a point of Mana for each use
- Have no free Reach (as far as we know)
- Have no free Primary Spell Factors (as far as we know)
- Cannot contain the any Paradox caused
- Costs exactly the same as an Artifact

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>>53133473

Some inspiration for what the Tzimisce leader's household might be like.

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>>53133473

And some street-level monsters, just for fun.

That's the last one I'll bother uploading, but there's plenty more to be found online. Pinterest can get you quite a few pieces of art and fleshy body-horror monsters.

>>53141477
I always imagined imbued items were more like utility items for users who were already awakened. But you're right as it stands right now it's easier for a non-mage to cast an unmaking spell than a knowing spell.

>>53141212
>Do Gangrels even use human ghouls?

Yeah, but since they only tend to need human ghouls for temporary jobs, they usually cut off the ghoul after they're done with the job. That, or just kill the ghoul outright, to cover their tracks and lessen the dangers of Masquerade-breaking.

Aside from that, some Gangrels do yearn for company from time to time. Animals might be good listeners, but they're not good for actual, meaningful conversation after all.

So, the human ghouls that *do* stay with the Gangrel for a longer period of time tend to be stuff like truckers, drivers, tour guides, entrepreneurs, wilderness experts/enthusiasts, and students.

A human ghoul allows for company, a reliable back-up supply of blood, and an extra set of hands that are always willing to help, in case the Gangrel drags a college girl into the bushes and drains a bit too much of her blood after having some fun and has to dispose of the body.

Still, Gangrel pick ghouls that tend to be self-reliant and good at surviving on their own. No Gangrel wants (or needs) a clingy parasite, so many of the more independent ghouls (the ones that sell their often superb services in exchange for blood from vampires) often originate from a Gangrel going "Welp, time for me to hit the road and not bother to bring my ghouls along".

Needless to say, they're also responsible for quite a few Masquerade breaches, but the Gangrel have already moved on by the time it became an issue.

>>53141700
Killing people - covering tracks.. Yeh you should rethink that. If its a temp job just use a human unless it specificallt requires something a ghoul can do too.

>>53141673
Problem is, that as far as utility items go, they're pretty awful, weak, and massive paradox magnets.

>>53125478
Yes, Correspondence can easily do that.

>>53141887
Space can also do it. in 1e as portal spell and 2e as colocate with a reach

>>53141700
Why go to all the effort of ghouling somebody when you can just blood bond them/get them addicted to blood and they will do it if you are just going to kill them after..

"no gangrel wants a clingy parasite"? really did you ask them all? This is one of the faggotry things i hate about vtm people playing/running it think very clan member is the sterotype and shit...fucking aids.

Why are mages so amazing?

>>53141931
Wands, big pink fleshy ones. They can wave at people and shit.

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>>53141931
they might not be flexible but they can sure be elastic

>>53141931
Top tier boipucci

Reminder that it's easier for a mage to rape a werewolf than the other way around.

:^)

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>>53142112
Who said anything about rape? 100% consensual

>>53142125
Fuck off and delete this.

>>53142154
Just accept the knot into your life

>>53131547
>best
I have a boner for Ventrue and Toreador, the Camerilla Aristocracy

worst
Giovanni, Ravnos and Gangrel

>>53142210
As soon as you accept that poll stuffing is a thing, and that strawpoll is full of it.

>>53142375
You're in denial.

>>53133863
My interpretation as a storyteller:
>mages go about their business and fuck up the monster in question if it crosses their paths
>changelings/promethians/demons/ghosts are singular entities which are rare enough to be exotic
>vampires rule the urban areas and werewolfs the rural

running a Vtm game so obviously its a bit biased.

>>53142418
It sounds about right to me, as a Mage player. Vampires are more populous than mages, so that makes sense. I would say that ghosts would be a bit more common though, from all the accidental and violent deaths that can happen in a city.

>>53142478
probably, but ghosts actually interfering with everyday life are exotic enough to be "events" rather than part of the city landscape in my opinion.

I said fuck the rules and made an entity that was trapped in an abandoned skyscraper (probably being the reason its abandoned), with mid-level reality bending powers, but confined to a small territory, which one of my PC's then released upon the world. He was tricked into thinking he is saving a "ghost child" which was actually this being that ate the child a few years a go. Any kind of creature in WoD i can shape into this role for future use?

>>53133863
This is from my VtR games
>Orders and seers try to one up each other while mostly ignoring everything else. Aswadim is present but he mostly acts as deterrent for orders and seers going full hog and trying to kill each other
>Demon is present and runs the rack
>Woofs have presence both inside and outside the city with forsaken having binding contracts with invictus thou woofs recently have fucked up royally
>Carthians, Invictus and Lancea are locked in Mexican standoff after prince left the city on personal errand

>>53142375
>pollstuffing on a joke poll
>implying everyone in these threads isn't in on the joke

>>53142418
This seems to be the case in most scenarios. Especially for mages, as they're usually best left alone unless you want to risk your personal existence.
They also never linger in the same area for too long for obvious reasons; mysteries, obsessions and curiosities.

Certain Consilia have far more influence than any single Prince though. The Seers dominate in politics.

>>53142651
One of the foils (as part of their theme) of Mage supremacy is exactly this. They're far too lofty to care about the other supernaturals unless it serves some underlying purpose. Mages have always been the wildcards of WoD, both old and new.

White-room nonsense only ever happens if you manage to irk them, or worse yet if you seriously piss them off.

>>53142651
What do mages actually get from politics?

>>53142720
Depends on the faction. It's mostly the Seers.

>>53142720
The Seers do it because part of their deal is basically to bully Sleepers. Make haves and have nots, all that. I think the Silver Ladder does politics a bit too.

>>53142753
Seers are probably happy to let vampires/woofs/changelings run things as long as they keep it shitty. Why act when others do your job for you

>>53142835
There are other reasons. Getting resources, just having power, being in a position to dick over the Pentacle, etc.

>>53142904
They have all the resources and power they want. And what position of power to dick over pentacle? What are they going to do? Shut off hot water in consila? Order 40 pizzas?

In my games all seers work middle management jobs in most remote departments so no one bothers them when they sniff coke and they only leave their offices when they need to stir some shit

Hey /CofD/, what's the negative if someone wants to make a called shot for the genitals? I was thinking like -3 or -4.
And also what kind of Tilt or Condition might this inflict?

>>53142977
heart is -3, eye is -5 so -4 sounds right,

stunned tilt?

>>53142977
>someone wants to make a called shot for the genitals

Kick him in the nutsack IRL

>>53142951
Yeah, it's foolish to rely on magic for everything. By getting into politics and taking on the personas of wealthy politicians and stockbrokers and investors then they put themselves in a prime position to get land, make connections, have tons of money that they don't have to hide or finangle, and more.

And the position they can be in to dick over the Pentacle is simple. They can harass them with Sleeper authorities, mess with their resources, things like that. Not to mention that they might just enjoy being in that position of control.

Your Seers sound boring as dicks. Not to mention that it's still not wise to rely on magic for every little move you want to make.

>>53143077
Yeah that does sound right.

>>53143110
It's not in a "lol im so random git ballbusted XD" way so much as their character is a dirty fighter who bites people in grapples, rips ears off, and jabs eyes out. It makes sense for the character.

>>53143321
So it's better to put yourself in the spotlight instead of hide behind the scenes? Better to get your own hands dirty instead of working via proxy?

Harassing mages with sleeper authorities sounds very threatening.

>>53143433
>implying politicians are in any kind of spotlight unless they're running for a national office
>implying seers need to hide themselves totally
>implying they can't also work by proxy for the more illegal and dangerous dealings (which they do all the time with profane urims)
>implying that it isn't annoying to have sleeper authorities keeping tabs on you, meaning you have to take extra care not to break the veil or bring unwanted attention to your secret society

>>53143517
Can't someone with Fate just remove any threads binding the authorities and the Consilium and make them lose interest that way? Or, more directly, use Mind?

>>53143550
Not that simple. You could use Space to sever the connections, but they would still have records of you and the Seers that sicced them on you could just restore the connections. They would also still have memories of you.

So right off the bat you have to destroy evidence, alter memories, and sever connections. Not exactly impressive feats, but annoying. It could also get more dangerous if the Seers did something a bit more than put suspicion on you, like straight up fabricate evidence of you being a domestic terrorist associating with a domestic terrorist cell.

Obviously these things can be handled, but not so easily. Either you handle it all yourself, something that would require some good planning and clever use of subtle magic from multiple Arcana, or the Consilium cleans it up for you, putting you in debt whether you asked for their help or not, because quid pro quo is the backbone of Pentacle society.

It's not a move meant to totally take you out of the picture, but it is definitely something that can make problems for you with little effort on the Seers' part, hence why I termed it "harassment".

How exactly does one find a Caern? are they built, or just erected on some established place? are they fixated in number and how big are the?

Can there be caerns that have been forgotten and must be restored?

Can a corrupted Caern be cleansed? Can a Caern be completely destroyed?

What the hell is a caern exactly? some sort of complex building or just a pile of rocks?

>>53141928
Gangrel have a need to wander, much like the Lasombra have a need to sail.

A human who can't even shapeshift and constantly needs to be fed blood is no use in the fucking woods

>>53144160
wait arnt there big bag werewolves in the woods who will fucking eat you?

All gangrel have a need to wander? Fuck off, if i was embraced as a gangrel for whatever reason it wouldnt be because i love nature and going outdoors thats for sure..

>>53144160
>Gangrel have a need to wander
Buuuuuuuuullshit

>>53144224
>muh furries
Gangrel literally don't give a shit, earth meld is only 3 dots, another reason why they won't take a ghoul
>wouldnt be because i love nature and going outdoors thats for sure..
You don't seem to understand, you could be a recluse living in a basement but after you're embraced you're still going to feel a need to wander, much like the Lasombra have a need to sail.

Not to mention that their clan curse makes them walking masquerade breaches after a few years, so they're going to be avoiding cities like the plague.

>>53144287
>you're still going to feel a need to wander, much like the Lasombra have a need to sail.
[citation needed]

>>53144326
Why do you think sedentary Gangrel are virtually nonexistent?

>>53144387
>what are City Gangrel

>>53144387
Because they don't like to sit around with their dick in their hand and wax lyrical like Toreadore and Ventrue.

That doesn't mean they're compelled to pack up a bag and fuck off somewhere, or can't stick around in one city.

>>53144287
and werewolfs can just camp on your head and wait for you to appear, unless your an elder who can swim in earthmeld, ur fucked. They can also dig you up and you'll come exploding out the group in the middle of the day surrounded by a pack of werewolves. Go fucking die.

>>53144387
Because writers love stereotypes

>>53144454
>and werewolfs can just camp on your head and wait for you to appear, unless your an elder who can swim in earthmeld, ur fucked
Well if you're even a half-decent Gangrel you're going to give them such a chase before earthmelding that the search radius will be insane

>They can also dig you up and you'll come exploding out the group in the middle of the day surrounded by a pack of werewolves
Not if you dig yourself deep enough

>Go fucking die
>getting this buttblasted on a Tagalog igloo-crafting imageboard

>>53144387
citation also needed

>>53144523
out run werewolves, yeh good luck. Its not like Werewolves are shit at hunting things..

Your not like leaving a huge wyrm tainted patch of soil thats pretty easy to find, oh ignore that.

Where does it say you determine how deep you earthmeld? Go check every description and its all just under the surface fag face.

Im not buttblasted, you stereotype meme lords are a dime a dozen. Every gangrel is a carbon copy of every other gangrel blah blah blah

>>53144530
Give me at least three (3) examples in the books of a gangrel with a permanent haven.

>>53144601
I asked first, give an example of "all gangrel have to wander" bullshit.

>>53144601
Ill go through every city book, and every gangrel thats been there for over 10 years i'll consider has a permanent haven there shall i,
define permanent? Pretty sure every haven they have in a building could be considered a permanent haven, just because they dont always live there doesnt make it suddenly vanish.

I bet every description will be "has a wanderlust and is going to leave the city soon...."

>>53144587
>out run werewolves, yeh good luck
>muh big bad werewolves can never be outwitted by a clan that can literally turn into mist

>Where does it say you determine how deep you earthmeld?
The gangrel ante earthmelded so hard she hit the earth's core.

While maybe not her level, it's clear they can burrow a little deeper

>Every gangrel is a carbon copy of every other gangrel blah blah blah

Where are you getting this? Just because they're nomadic doesn't mean they can't be different.

>>53144639
The fact that in all of the books I've read (which are around 2 dozen) there isn't a gangrel with a permanent haven, and this is noted many times? There is clearly something in their blood that forces them to be nomadic.

FFS, the name gangrel itself means vagabond, drifter
>>53144691
By permanent haven I mean settled in for at least decades, and their description should have no mention of them wandering in the wilderness.

>>53144601
That's not how it works. You can't make a claim and then espouse it as true because somebody can't disprove it to your satisfaction. That leads to babytown frolics where anybody can say any stupid shit they want and get away with it.

You need to back up your own argument to prove it if you want it to be taken seriously. So show the source for your "all Gangrels need to wander and run" stuff.

>>53144734
>There is clearly something in their blood that forces them to be nomadic.
[citation needed]

Headcanon is strong in this anon

>>53144734
#1 Rose in chicago lives in a house since her embrace in 1974, has never left chicacgo cos big bad wolves...

>>53144819
#2 Joseph Fuller, apartment in DC, thinks hes not a normal gangrel and is basically a setite wannabe. Been there since his embrace in 1984

>>53144929
#3 celeste, stays in a permanent lair somewhere in montreal, is even noted to be a country gangrel, which is a minority in the sabbat or sommat. city gangrel ftw!

No joking tho the percentage of gangrel vampires who are written as living in a park like a hobo is high.

Still doesnt mean they are all wander boners. No physical or permanent haven != wandering out your city/park.

Speaking of the Gangrel, what sort of havens would the Mariner Gangrels have?

>>53144810
Its more likely that they choose people similar to the clan stereotype. They choose people who like to wander, move about alot, like the wilderness, but if they embraced some random shithead suited lawyer, he'd not suddenly beome Bear fucking Grylls because of the gangrel blood, he'll eventually become poodleman, the scary.

>>53145188
Inside a whale.

So if the Tremere were vampires for years before diablerizing Saulot and this wasn't part of the initial process of becoming vamps, how the fuck did they do it? No mage powers, just a very small handful of vampires? Salubri were a full-sized clan at this time. I had always just assumed they had done it with their mage powers as part of the misguided plot to become lower-power supernaturals.

>>53145302
One thing I never understood about the Tremere is why doesn't they have the Tzimisce curse?

>>53145188
Undersea caves?

>>53135528
Looks bretty gud anon

>>53145332
The same reason they don't have any aptitude for Vicissitude, I would guess.

>>53145223

Only if they're named Jonah though.

So Tome of the Mysteries, p 46, first new paragraph says:

"To be clear, no Kindred Discipline or Uratha Gift is sufficently analogous to awakened magic to be reflexively countered by the spells that mages use to do so among their own."

Why is everyone ignoring this?

>>53146246
Because magefags don't like anything that disrupts the circlejerk.

>>53145302
>No mage powers, just a very small handful of vampires? Salubri were a full-sized clan at this time.

Salubri were actually always few in number... Or at least the Healers and Warriors.

The Watcher offshoots weren't some SUPERHUGE ARMY OMGZ or anything either, but they were enough that they ran subtle damage control on the Kuei-Jin... Unfortunately, most in the main clan didn't even know about the Watchers, and if they did, they didn't know exactly where to find them. Furthermore, the Watchers were largely unconcerned with the main clan's plight.

But yeah, the Salubri weren't a big clan. The healers tended to only embrace the most compassionate and humane of people, and the Warriors tended to only embrace the most chivalrous and courageous. Having such high standards meant there weren't many being taken into the clan proper.

It's part of the reason why the Tremere opted for the Salubri rather than some other clan. Few in number, hesitant to use violence, often reviled or not trusted by the other clans due to their healing arts and the "holier-than-thou" attitude, and so on.

>>53145302
>>53146439

You also forget that Salubri generally weren't well liked by the likes of Ventrue and such, who never liked having anyone who was quite literally holier-than-thou, hanging over everyone's shoulders, telling them to not abuse the humans and so on.

>>53146246
It's a 1e supplement released before 2e turned Mage Armor into a series of Attainments that are explicitly described as being able to be reflexively activated. So if anything I would say ask Dave what he makes of it next time he pops in, or wait for Signs of Sorcery and see if it has anything to say on the subject. Whichever comes first.

Also in 1e it was stated that it was common for Mages to routinely set up lasting Mage Armors as part of their morning routine.

Unless you're talking about stuff besides Mage Armor, which I honestly haven't seen argued about.

>>53146439
Also, the Salubri had their heads planted so firmly up their asses that they considered the Tzimisce noble and valorous allies.

File: Gangrel Mariner.jpg (48KB, 430x700px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 430x700px

>>53145188
>Speaking of the Gangrel, what sort of havens would the Mariner Gangrels have?

Well, undersea caves and shipwrecks for one... though if they're the sort of Mariner that lives near the coast or in a lake rather than in the middle of the ocean, they could opt for an abandoned warehouse near a port, an old fishing shack, or stuff like that.

Oh, and I guess they could still opt for earth-melding at the bottom of the lake, river or ocean, provided there's enough dirt and earth (rather than just easily-disturbed sand) in the location.

>>53146594

I wonder how their bodies would handle deep-ocean/sea pressure.

>>53146615

I believe it was mentioned in one of the old VtM supplements that though Kindred bodies are tougher than normal dead bodies and more resistant to extreme temperatures and pressure, they still have limits for how deep they can go underwater...

I believe it was also mentioned that Fortitude allowed for deeper exploration (to a certain point at least, depending on the vamp's generation), but that it was still an uncomfortable feeling when you got deep enough.

Can't recall where I saw it, though. Blood-Dimmed Tides, maybe?

>>53146668
Yep. At a certain depth, Kindred suffer from a phenomenon called depth sweat, where the extreme pressure starts pressing the blood points out of them. Mariners are somewhat more resistant to it than surface Kindred, but still suffer from it if they go too far down.

>>53146668
>>53147181

How about going up in space, in some kind of tomb-ship, with no windows/ways to let sunlight inside?

>>53146668
>>53146615

It was in Blood-Dimmed Tides, yeah.

>Although vampires do not need to breathe, they are still susceptible to certain problems that high pressure causes. Kindred who descend past 300 meters' depth experience a gradual dissolution of the blood as the water pressure forces the stagnant vitae in their undead bodies out of their systems. For every 10 minutes that a vampire spends below 300 meters' depth, they lose a blood point. This loss is faintly visible (if a light source is available), as the vampire appears to sweat blood which rapidly diffuses into the surrounding water.

>Fortitude does serve to shield the vampire against this blood loss, which Lasombra scholars have dubbed PIVD ("Pressure-Induced Vitae Dissociation") and Gangrel Aquarii refer to it as "depth sweat". Every point of Fortitude that the vampire possesses increases the critical depth by 50 meters, so a vampire with Fortitude 4 could safely descend to 500 meters without experiencing any ill effects. Gangrel Aquarii are innately adapted to high water pressure: their safe depth is triple the normal value.

>A vampire whose blood pool is reduced to zero through PIVD enters torpor and sinks to the sea floor. The Gangrel Aquarii admit to having found several torporous elders on the bottom of the ocean, usually in the remains of shipwrecks, and have even gone so far as to identify some formerly well-known individuals who were lost at sea during the World Wars. However, the Mariners have never rescued a victim of PIVD from torpor and returned them to the surface. The Camarilla believes this to be proof that the Mariners practice Diablerie as a matter of course, but all inquiries have been met with puzzled looks and a lack of comprehension of the Diablerie process.


--- Blood-Dimmed Tides, pg 121-122.

>>53147254

>>53124986
I've played WoD for a looong time, but I've never done anything CofD related before, and holy shit, making a character is so fucking complicated in this game, the books are all terribly formatted with so much backtracking and just tedium involved. I tried looking for a convenient guide online but couldn't find anything useful. If anyone has something to make this process less horrible, please let me know, because I've got to bring a lot of new kids on board.

>>53146246
it isnt being ignored it hasnt come up, nobody has said you can counterspell vamp/were powers with magic, cos mages dont need to

>>53147394
CofD characters only really have merits to look up, what's your problem that you can't figure out?