/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Have a thread question:
What particular multiclasses do you / does your DM disallow?
Alternatively, how about races?

>>53106027
From the thumbnail I thought that was Kojima.

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>>53106027
>Sphinx

Anyone had a group fucked over by a Sphinx? Between messing with age and literally dumping the PCs in the past/future, Sphinxes seem mighty strong.

>>53106036
No sorlock.
No gnomes (I hate them), no yuan-ti (they're broken), and no flying races, because they're annoying to deal with.

>>53106036
I tell people to ignore the ability score requirements for multiclassing. It hasn't led to anyone overpowered just yet.

>>>53099596
You're everything that's wrong with the world and I hope your asshole gets eaten painfully by cancer.

Is there a way or a mechanic to force a roll off Legendary Resistance? Basically making the Legendary Resistance irrelevant.

>>53106036
My players rarely multiclass. I don't think I've ever disallowed it, they usually do it for thematic reasons.

>After saving the minor deity they become their cleric
>After some downtime spent wandering the desert they take a level in ranger
>After losing all their wealth they must take to thievery and take a few levels in rogue

And a couple of wizards took a level or two in warlock because they got a bit too close to a fiend. That ended up costing them dearly.

>>53106049
I can agree with all of these, really.

I'd add in some other specifics like taking a level dip of life cleric for aura of vitality or goodberry abuse (Mostly for games where you don't want out of combat healing to be pretty much straight back to 100%, otherwise goodberry is fine), wildshape druid multiclasses for AC (Barbarian or monk dip), armour dips (Wizard with single level of fighter or cleric, though might allow them to take more than one level) and obviously UA multiclasses. I'm not too against sorlocks, but I haven't seen one in action that builds properly.

>>53106076
You can drain legendary resistance with a monk spamming stuns.
If you have a feature that makes a creature reroll a successful saving throw, I believe that would probably make it reroll after auto-succeeding, though I'm not sure if any such thing exists and the creature could just auto-succeed again.
You could also use things that still have effects if the creature makes the save or something it makes no save for anyway.
You could also see if you can find anything that makes them make repeated saves from one cast.


Making legendary resistance irrelevant completely if you're throwing saves at it isn't possible, I believe.

>>53106082
>>53106036
To talk about races.
>depends on the setting
I had a setting which was only human (but the cultures each gave a unique feat).
Another setting was all core races + aasimar (the setting we're currently playing in).

>>53106097
Goodberry life cleric is at least fairly easy to work around, since an extra 40 HP/day just means you can throw a longer adventuring day at them, which lets stuff like monks and warlocks shine.

Armor dips and AC dips are too damn cheesy, though, and UA multiclassing is selectively okay, and is more easily solved by just not allowing the obviously broken UAs.

>>53106036
>>53106049
There is really just one extremely important rule.

If one PC is extremely minmaxed, make sure every other PC is minmaxed, so you can challenge the party without fucking over everyone but the minmaxer.

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Dear fellow GMs,

Would you let an Artificer Character Build himself mechanical Extra limbs, If yes at which cost and to what benefit.

also what about hardcore UA splashing the Dragonmarks that lets the artificer cast Fabricate once per day from the Eberron UA

>>53106139
It's already hard enough to get a long adventuring day, without having to make it even longer . Though, granted, there are other ways to do something similar such as having healing spells on a warlock and/or just having higher level healing spells like prayer of healing.

>>53106168
Christ almighty Kaladesh had hideous art.

>>53106168
Mechanical extra limbs would be the level 6 feature. Bam, done.

>>53106049
why no sorlocks
im playing one right now and i see no problem with it.
i just happen to love playing warlocks.

>>53106168
Unless your players are really rich and the setting allows for purchase of the required items, I think it would be easier to have an adventure for the parts.

Benefits? Uh maybe allow a bonus action or reaction to use the hand to do something. Like attack somebody, grapple somebody, ready an item.

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Which is the better "undeath" class; An Undying Warlock or a Necromancer Wizard?

>>53106192
I'm a compulsive warlock player. I never skimp on CHA so I almost always have 14+ CHA.

>>53106134
Oh sweet, excellent and helpful information, dude. Thanks heaps.

Would you recommend any particular premade adventure for a newbie DM with a lot of experience playing and a group (mostly) completely new to TTRPGs in general? Length isn't a huge issue. Preferably, I'd like an even mix of dungeon crawling and RPing.

>>53106202
Necromancer wizard, easily.

>>53106210
yea me2, 5e has some dope CHA classes
Warlocks work well with basically everything and have the best theme.

>>53106192
dude quickened EB lmao

>>53106234
>Lost mines
Storm kings Thunder
White Plum Mountain.

>>53106251
is quickeneded EB any better than Scorching ray??

>>53106247
>dragon sorcerer/GOOlock with more health than the party's cleric
>Paladin worshipping a GOO that takes the form of a sun
>half-elf maid that patronizes Titania, get extra magic attacks at total 5th level to make up for dipping, can see in all darkness

>>53106270
As you go up in level, yes. It adds charisma to damage because you took agonizing blast.

>>53106270
At level 5:

1d10+4 1d10+4 + 20ft pushback
19 + 11/20 average damage if 100% hits.

Scorching ray:
2d6 + 2d6 + 2d6
22 + 1/20 average damage if 100% hits, but fire instead of force

Eldritch blast is better from level 5 onwards, even if not massively better.

>>53106237
Why?

>>53106270
scorching ray is 2nd lvl -> 4 sorcery points -> 2 quickened spells

Over 2 Turns:
6d6 + 1d10+4 (30,5) vs 4d10+4x4 (38) (at 18 cha)

at lvl 5 you eldritch blast does double damage.
Not even talking about the metamagic spellslot fuckery

>>53106036
I allow UA ranger in my game but ban multiclassing into it.

>>53106313
Why not?

It's the most overpowered archetype+class in the game if played correctly, so it wins the mechanical fight.

Undying warlock offers hardly very much in the way of necromancy and shit as far as I recall in terms of spells, so it loses out while necromancer wizard is busy raising undeadbros. So it should win on the flavour front.

But oathbreaker is also overpowered and pretty undead-centric considering they buff undead creatures.

>>53106331
A second level spell slot is only worth 2 sorcery points if you break it down.

Anyone have a good resource for character art? I'll be playing a noble born warlock in an upcoming game and need to find something nice.

>>53106036
Our DM completely bans multiclassing
It works out alright

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>>53106369
There usually is a character art thread up might wanna check that out

>>53106060
Just use google, but search based on the LOOK of the image you'd like, not on what you're actually using it for. For example, you'd be best off looking for bards or princes rather than warlocks if you wanted to go full prince charming with that character

Another is that, if you're looking for "gritty" or "grounded" images, looking for rogues is almost always a good idea because for some reason they're the only class exempt from the unwritten rule that all fantasy art must be overt anime shit

>>53106374
wouldnt call it banning, for it is a Variant feature like Feats or Magic items.
(Who are we kidding)

I wish Darkvision was A Variant Trait. its one of the few things I dont count in my games.

>>53106192
People have a problem with Sorlocks (once high enough level) having sustained damage on par with martials.

But it's like meh. Warlocks are basically utility martials, and sorcerers are the worst full casters, and if you combine the two the result is an effective damage dealer but squishy and needs to sacrifice its versatility as an opportunity cost to sustain the damage.

>>53106338
Feel free to believe that.

>>53106428
Feel free to believe what in particular? That the paladin with better DPR than the DPR class, the fighter, yet still has all the other paladin goodies, is overpowered?
That the wizard who can maintain over a hundred creatures is more powerful than a warlock archetype who doesn't actually get anything special and is generally regarded as a bad archetype? I mean, I'd like to see someone justify undying being a good archetype design.

>>53106426
>squishy
Really? I'd imagine most sorcerers would be Draconics and they've got the scales and extra HP per level that gives them the same average HP per level as Clerics and Warlocks, and that's before CON bonus.

>>53106382
They're just posting tattoos and suits

>>53106451
Realistically speaking, a good DM isn't going to let you have more than 4-6 skellies up at a time. While a decent buff for party strength, they're situational, so hardly broken.

And if you're with a bad DM why even play

with my tavern brawler barbarian, i'll often have two enemies grappled, would you guys allow me to have a weapon attached to my forehead? what damage die should that be

>>53106486
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Unicorn#content

>>53106202
Unfortunately Undying sucks dick. If you want an "Undeath" class without skeleton spam then Death Cleric is likely your best bet.

>>53106486
How do you have two guys grappled at once? Also I wouldn't have much more 1d4's worth of damage on your face.

>>53106480
4 skellies is what you can maintain with a single non-upcasted cast of animate undead. Upcasting it, you can maintain a much larger number with only one spellcast, so your DM would be a bit crazy to say you can't do that. And your DM is pretty shit if they say 'Oh, I'm banning that because I don't like it.'
Instead, they should insist you use some of the skellies as rearguards and such or guarding the home base or exploring for you because if you take them all into combat you'll be tripping over your own troops and it'll be a mess.

A good DM would allow you to still do your thing while still keeping things fair and challenging.
They might even say 'Okay, you can mass these 144 skeletons into 12 really big fucking skeletons and then into 2 fuckhueg skeletons' so it doesn't bog down combat. They'd be weaker overall but harder to AoE and such so you're not using all your counterspells counterspelling fireballs all day.

Or they might have paladins and shit after you for being a fucking necromancer with a skeleton army.

All of that is better DMing than saying 'Lol no fuck you no fun allowed'

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>>53106369
It's likely a bit more on the Wizard/Sorcerer side but this one's decent. Got any more specifics on how you want him to look? Also patron? I've got a fair bit of art.

>>53106480
>>53106515
(Cont..)
And also you'll have to find corpses to raise in the first place.

It's potentially the most powerful, but it's also potentially quite a vulnerable wizard, especially if you're cut off from all your skellies/holy magic scares them off and you're left alone with only a few spell slots left.

If it wasn't possible to cicrumvent the combat lag and if it wasn't possible to counter it, it would be something your DM shouldn't allow, but as a matter of fact you can do both and your DM not doing that is just them being an inexperienced DM who doesn't know how to deal with X and probably bans shit they can't counter.

He's a strong cunt, and were in a kobold heavy sesh, shove down one kob, automatic grapple, and grapple another one with extra attack. No hands free means i only get unarmed forhead strikes, when I want at least a d6

>>53106515
A DM shouldn't have to shape the game around you because you made a hideously overpowered character on purpose

I don't see how you can think not letting you have a fucking army of skeletons means the DM is shit and nofunallowed

>>53106552
>>53106506

whoops

>>53106552
Oh my god your language is haunting.

Also even though it's likely too late, your only RAW options are play a Minotaur or Lizardfolk. Minotaur is probably one of the best grapplers in the game.

Will they ever release a Campaign Setting or do they expect us to pick up old ones and convert them to the new rules?

>>53106552
What the goddamm fuck are you blathering about, who can understand your drivel? Are you a literal retard?

>>53106520
Female, Fey. Half-elf so she can look as human or elven as I like. Neutral Good alignment, so nothing sinister.

>>53106564
>A DM shouldn't have to shape the game around you
You do realize that's like saying
>A DM should make a game completely disregarding the players who're playing it and then put characters through it and hope it works out
Right?

The DM shouldn't have to make every single encounter have a fireball wizard to counter it, yes, but you hardly have to do that to stop it.

You can't fit an entire skeleton army in some rooms.
You can't fit an entire skeleton army across every trap you find.
You can't always maintain your skeleton army with enough corpses.
You might have people come chase after you.
There's a billion things that could happen as a consequence of a player doing their actions in the world.
That is what D&D is. The players do shit, the world reacts to their influence, even if it's not on a global scale and a 'Oh, the big bad at the end of the dungeon sees you coming in with a big fucking army and you have a rest, so you give him plenty of time to build up defences against it.'

>>53106573
fair enough, ill switch up tactics

>>53106369
grognard.booru.org

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I'm back again, let me know what you think. Love me a good critiquing.

Sorcerer Subclass Weavetouched take 3.

>>53106597
Again: The DM shouldn't have to shape the game in order to "counter" your stupid build. You're equating not wanting to design every encounter so that your skeleton army doesn't completely break the game to completely ignoring player agency

Playing with people like you must be a fucking nightmare

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>>53106596
Turns out I don't have much in the way of females. Side effect of faggotry.

This is about the only thing I've got and if you know how to use photoshop you could make it into an Eldritch Blast attack rather then a punch I guess. Sorry mate.

>>53106642
I appreciate your effort regardless.

>>53106515
>>53106542
>Believing you'll be able to get that many without many being destroyed in the process due to higher level monsters

I love watching the white room theory crafting that takes a 100% perfect set of circumstances to be relevant.

What are the best spells to make the martials feel useless as a Wizard? I need to know so I can avoid picking them of course.

>>53106626
Again, you're completely missing the point of D&D:

YOUR ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

The wizard is going to start digging up graveyards and shit to get those skeletons. He's not going to be able to find enough corpses everywhere.

What do you think happens? 'Oh no, it's OP, I'm banning you?'

No. People find out. They start trying to protect their dead. They start sending out clerics and paladins. You can't even go into a town when anybody's looking.

While mechanically 144 skeletons is fucking ridiculous, the environment reacts and flavour-wise you start realizing that actually having an army of 144 skeletons everywhere and no spell slots left is a lot worse than you had hoped for.


If your DM can't understand that shit happens when players do things, they should quit and play a video game instead.

>>53106680
That's exactly what I'm saying, though.

On paper, the necromancer wizard is potentailly one of the most overpowered things in the game. Mechanically, it's great.
Once you throw him into a setting though, you encounter all sorts of various problems.

A legion of skeleton archers could easily take out a high level monster with minimal losses, but it's true that over an adventuring day you'll lose some, and the worst thing is trying to get more skeletons to replace them without invoking consequences never being the same again.

>>53106597
If PCs shouldnt do it I feel like the DM shouldnt Metagame either.

If you keep running into invisible enemies until you buy a lantern of revealing /get truesight and then poof no enemy can become invisible anymore its a bad sign.

If a DM just tries to cockblock a single player with their encounters without talking to them at all first its just a red-flag.

lets say at 6th level you could theoretically raise 6 skeletons take a short rest raise another 2. take a long rest pacify the 8 skeletons raise another 4after a short rest. you now burned trough an entire day raising 12 skeletons and used your arcane recovery. Honestly I'd rather take the 8 Fireballs instead

dear 5eg

How the hell do I tank in 5e?

>>53106710
I perfectly understand how D&D works, thank you. What I am telling you is that you're making a very contrived excuse to be the strongest character in the party (and a regular wizard is already overkill for this purpose with minimal optimization), and justifying it because the world must "react" to your actions, which you seem to think means the wizard should be able to powertrip via spotlight-hogging bullshit which, if actually done, would end with every encounter needing to be tailor made to the wizard and several new plotlines to fix the enormous shitstorm the player just stirred with his dumb necromancer character (on the way you are defending it) while paying no mind to the possibility that the other players or the DM may want to do something other than gargling wizard balls 24/7

>>53106777
Use intimidate or bluff to get your enemies to target you. Hope your DM is ok with what you're trying to do.

>>53106777
Our best tank is an Eldritch Knight
When we first started this season I thought he was gonna be useless, but he took Warcaster for concentration checks and it turns out Blur and Shield are really good spells!

We're now level 9 or so and he's wearing full plate, a shield and a +2 ring of protection and he has like 22 AC (27 with Shield) and enemies get disadvantage on him

He's also big and threatening so mobs tend to focus on him (or maybe the DM does it to make him feel useful)

>>53106750
That's not what I'm saying, though.

The game doesn't change shape to fit the player.
The dynamic elements of the world shape to fit the player.

The DM isn't saying 'Okay, all encounters now have a fireball wizard'
He's simply invoking
'Okay, you robbed a graveyard, people are fucking pissed at you'

If you say that people getting pissed at you and sending people after you is bad, you're basically saying 'Your actions shouldn't have consequences.'

You would still encounter some things like a wizard with fireball, but they could have been there anyway, or the wizard might have had other spells they would have used if you didn't have an army.

You'd get a lot more skeletons than those 8 fireballs and you'd have to spend 8 actions to get those 8 fireballs, but it's perfectly reasonable to save those spell slots for something you can count on rather than counting on being able to fit all of your skeletons into a dungeon without anything bad happening.

>>53106702
Basically everything.

>>53106181
the new UA artificer gets a pretty powerful CR2 Beast Mechanical Servant that can React when the Character gets attacked, Those gotta be some serious Mecha-Jazzhands to replace that.

Honestly the Servant is probably the only redeeming feature of the class

>>53106039
I thought it was the Rat Hills

>>53106470
It gets them the same max hp but doesn't actually improve their hit die. Even most d8 classes have better defenses than +1 AC over light armor.

>>53106168
His robot buddy is a mechanical spider that rides on his back. Instead of bites the arms are holding weapons with the same reach, to hit, and damage.

>>53106750
>>53106803
Well, actually, I mean, you're about right it's 12 or 16 skeletons at level 6 but that'd only be 3 or 4 fireballs.

Each route has its advantages.

>>53106789
Just because people are reacting to the wizard, doesn't make everyone else less relevant.

There the wizard stands, devasted as he's left with no spell slots and the cleric has just turned all his minions away, and he's quite limited on his options. Suddenly, the rest of his party can do shit to help.

The wizard's trying to get all of their minions across a lengthy spike pit trap which everybody else can simply jump over with their martial prowess, but they lack the spells to do that and the spell slots. So, the barbarian hacks down a door and holds it firm part way across the pit to help the minions jump over.

Just because the wizard is powerful, doesn't mean there's no room left for everyone else. He's not awfully tough and he has to lug all his minions everywhere and spend spell slots to make sure his minions don't turn against him. He has many flaws, and other players can easily cover for those flaws and excel where the wizard couldn't.

>>53106834
>Suddenly, the rest of his party can do shit to help.
I had a good chuckle at this

Re-read that sentence a few times and you'll start to see why most DM's wouldn't allow it. You phrase it like some "the real heroes" shit where everyone else at the party are laundry workers and nobody appreciates their work until the almighty wizard shits his pants

Just ban wizards and minions. Duh.

>>53106834
You clearly love being the centre of attention. You want to derail the whole campaign to make the story about your "necromancer army. So cool xD". Fuck off.

>>53106834
>>53106789
(Cont)
Or, maybe the other teammates have to go into town for him because he can't be seen, or try to cover for why there's a whole load of really quiet mercenaries dressed up to even their face outside town.


The key part is that he has flaws as well as good points. He might trivialize some encounters, but he'll suffer greatly on other encounters. That's how things should be, and nothing's wrong with that.


Even if a druid did a trillion damage with magic missiles, what would happen is people start realizing this is happening and they start doing their best to make shields of brooching or at least inferior versions that lessen the damage of magic missile, or people will hear of it and start using tactics to start avoiding the magic missiles (You can't magic missile a target you can't see, if I recall right).

There's 'Suddenly, no invisible enemies appear anymore since you have anti-invisibility' and there's 'The invisible enemies after the first in this dungeon try to stay away from you because they saw what you were capable of earlier and fled'

Maybe it's a bit contrived to expect your DM to actually be decent, but you shouldn't pull this on a new DM anyway.

>>53106877
You could say this normally. 'The wizard is ridiculously powerful, he does 8d6 damage AoEs every single turn that always deal at least half damage!'
But yet he isn't that powerful all the time. Funny huh?

>>53106834
Shouldn't you be playing Pathfinder?

>>53106900
Does pathfinder have DMs that understand if you have a tunnel fighter fighter that after 5 kobolds spear themself on the fighter's spear that they should consider 'Maybe we should stop running onto his spear' instead of all running onto his spear, dying, and the DM then banning tunnel fighter?
If so, then maybe, but it's still a pretty shit system.

>>53106743
I think you missed the point of my post, unless I'm miss reading, as encounters get harder more monsters have aoe attacks or are just outright hard to hit even for the party. Taking this into account the amount of attacks that will actually stick will be slim to none, then they get to attack and decimate the ranks without really trying.

This skeleton army would be obliterated facing say an adult dragon, it sounds op as fuck on paper but any encounter will wreck them with how flimsy they are.

>>53106887
>You could say this normally. 'The wizard is ridiculously powerful, he does 8d6 damage AoEs every single turn that always deal at least half damage!'
Damage isn't even what the wizard should be doing. He can, but lots of other classes can do a lot of damage much more reliably. Out of the unlimited fountains of bullshit which full casters, and wizards first and foremost, can use to interact with the game world and combat mechanics, hitting shit hard is the ONE THING they can leave in the hands of the martials or the warlock.

>>53106887
If the DM is handing out "See invisibility" effects in magic items and then never brings back invisible enemies again thats kind of a dick move.

>>53106913
No, I mean Pathfinder is caster autist edition, that's seems more up your alley.

>>53106931
I gave a player the ability to cause 2 negative levels every spell he cast once. The whole campaign they were fighting undead. Took him 3 months to realize.

>>53106625
Drop Efficient Sorcery and Weavesense entirely, limit Energy Substitution to CHA mod/day or make it a Metamagic option, and I *might* allow this at my table.

>>53106192
Sorlock??

Palalock is where it's at.

>>53106947
Any reason behind those changes?

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>>53106834
>There the wizard stands, devasted as he's left with no spell slots and the cleric has just turned all his minions away, and he's quite limited on his options. Suddenly, the rest of his party can do shit to help.

>The wizard's trying to get all of their minions across a lengthy spike pit trap which everybody else can simply jump over with their martial prowess, but they lack the spells to do that and the spell slots. So, the barbarian hacks down a door and holds it firm part way across the pit to help the minions jump over.

>Just because the wizard is powerful, doesn't mean there's no room left for everyone else. He's not awfully tough and he has to lug all his minions everywhere and spend spell slots to make sure his minions don't turn against him. He has many flaws, and other players can easily cover for those flaws and excel where the wizard couldn't.

>The entire campaign revolves around the wizard and the rest of the party is just there when he needs them

This has to be bait or a 3.xaboo who thinks casters need to be brought back up to their former glory.

>>53106927
Even so, it's just an example.
A blaster wizard will outdamage everybody else and upstage them.

Until he runs out of spell slots, there's only one enemy, the enemy is resistant to fire damage, the enemies all use cover, the enemies counterspell it, et cetera.

>>53106931
If the DM gives everybody magical anti-invisibility lanterns and they use it all the time, that's more than enough justification for 'Oh, invisiblecreature saw its friend invisiblecreature2 walk into the light and become revealed, therefore he changes his tactics somewhat'

D&D should be for dynamic environments and fights. It shouldn't be 'There are no invisible creatures' or 'There are invisible creatures and they all walk into your light, making it completely pointless that I made them invisible in the first place.' There's dynanism in it.

>>53106941
A wizard who spends all their spell slots on necromancy is barely a caster, save for rituals.
They're basically a commander.

What's so good about bounded accuracy?

>>53106957
I bet you think fireball is OP because it deals more damage than a martial does, too.

>>53106955
Not him, but Weavesense is fucking insane.

>>53106970
150 kobolds will fuck you up no matter you level

You cant accidentaly make a trash character because you missed your +2 to style your +2 to matching shoepolish your +2 to inner eye to hit the Goblins AC of 29

>>53106964
No one is willing to spotlight you if you continue to be a hogging the attention shit. Or fuck off back to Pathfinder.

>>53106977
No it's just the logic in that post speaks solely to the idea the the party is there to work for the wizard and the only things they're needed for is what the wizard wants.

Nice strawman though you make it yourself?

>>53106977
I think you just keep bringing damage up because it is just about the only thing which the wizard doesn't hopelessly outclass everyone else already

>>53106970
Less 'Enemy has 40 AC, you have +30 to hit' like 4e had at later levels, more reasonable calculations instead.
Numbers matter more, a group of peasants has a chance against one monster if they can co-ordinate and not run away in fear.
You can re-use weaker monsters later and have them still be relevant.

On the downside, it makes it harder to truly differentiate an artisan blacksmith from a regular one without things like several rolls in a row (Say, 5d20 to make a sword which deviates towards the average and prevents a +0 guy from outshining a guy with expertise 33% of the time)
And also some people like being kung fu weebs who can take on 10 people at once.


Bounded accuracy is better for lower fantasy.

>>53106977
Except it doesn't? Fireball only averages 20 something damage per enemy, a well built martial will be doing loads more by the time a Wizard can Fireball more then twice.

The issue with skeletons is that it's like they forgot bounded accuracy when making the spell for this edition. They should've made it so you can only have 1-2 big guys with it. A swarm of 144 Skeletons will just demolish everything.

>>53106990
That's not really a good argument for why that particular mechanic is good.

>>53107010
fair enough

>>53107010
You could say it is less minmax-y then, there's more space to not be optimal.


While we're having this discussion, can someone tell me the strengths of a Wizard other than conjurer?

>>53106998
>Strawman
You didn't even have an argument, so I could have said 'Fuck Australia' and it wouldn't matter, so I might as well make a strawman while I wait for you to actually justify anything, you know?

And, again, with the fireball -
Wizard outshines everybody when he fireballs.
But he can't fireball all the time.
This is easily comparable to a necromancer wizard who's great sometimes (Lots of skeleton actions) and bad sometimes (Has trouble maintaining skeleton army, royally fucked if he lets an AoE through

If you want to argue that, you have to argue that the downsides aren't enough to justify the upsides, not just 'Go back to pathfinder, your post sounds like the wizard's too strong'.

>>53107003
>Wizard doesn't hopelessly outclass everyone else already
I could give a good number of reasons why that's wrong, unless you start bringing up high level spells like wish and simulacrum abuse, or they start doing shit like cleric dips so they're suddenly a lot tankier. Plenty of other classes are tankier, bard is better at skills, martials are better at DPR over a proper day, monks are better at stunning, etc.

I bring up damage because it's the simplest, easiest to compare thing, whereas trying to compare utility is a nightmare.

Wizard is strong, but hardly 'outclasses everybody at everything'.

>>53106992
It's hardly spotlighted if the wizard has to work together with teammates to be properly effective.

>>53107052
>>53107021
>>53107004
So it's also for the others in your party to be relevant and be better contributers to the team?

>this faggot is still trying to defending derailing a campaign to make himself the centre of attention

Unbelievable

>>53107063
Be a better team player and you may even have an argument worth considering.

>>53107063
The issue is most group dont have 8 encounters per rest but rather 3-4. since the game is "balanced" around 6-8 encounters Classes that can just end an encounter with a spell will outclass every other class

>>53107063
> martials are better at DPR over a proper day
Okay, so you brought up what I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED wizards not to be the best at, and which was the whole point of my post, and also the context of my response. Grasping at straws much?
>monks are better at stunning
Monks also are almost useless at anything but stunning. Go figure.

>>53107009
By the time wizard can fireball more than twice,(Level 5, but they can do it without a short rest at 6) a well-built martial (Say, PAM+GWM fighter) would be doing, with action surge at level 6, (20.3 average attack damage)*6, at most, in a turn, with -5 to hit and no damage whatsoever if they miss.
The fireball does an average of 28 damage, 14 if they succeed their save, a number of times for however many enemies there are.

In that case, it depends on the number of enemies, really. 3 or less enemies and the fighter's probably doing a bit more there.

>>53107083
So, you never actually had an argument.

>>53107097
Well, yes, that's a thing that they really fucked up on.
But in the case of a necromancer wizard with a skeleton army, I don't think the length of the adventuring day is really the problem for them, because they use all their spell slots at the start of the day and then see how far they can go, and on long rests they don't get all their skeletons back. So they do get spell slots there, but if wizards are broken for being able to solve an encounter with one spell I don't think a necromancer wizard is the problem, but rather wizards in general.

>>53107098
>So you brought up what I SPECIFICALLY METNIONED
Yes, I did. I also brought up other things others are good at, so why are you so angry?
Also, there are many flavours of damage, anyway.

>Monks are almost useless at anything but stunning.
But they're still vastly better than anybody else.

>>53107063
Always remember D&D is a team game, 5e moreso. Always remember that.
Don't be a selfish asshole or you're a piece of shit.

>>53107130
>Yes, I did. I also brought up other things others are good at, so why are you so angry?
A whole 3, and one of them is in exchange for being a shit class whose sole purpose in life is to stun

>>53107063
>And, again, with the fireball -
Wizard outshines everybody when he fireballs.
But he can't fireball all the time.
This is easily comparable to a necromancer wizard who's great sometimes (Lots of skeleton actions) and bad sometimes (Has trouble maintaining skeleton army, royally fucked if he lets an AoE through

Oh so more than one thing using an aoe attack? Or a dragon laughing and breathing. It's almost like a group of skeletons would be decimated by one such attack, along with a legendary action to flatten them.

>If you want to argue that, you have to argue that the downsides aren't enough to justify the upsides, not just 'Go back to pathfinder, your post sounds like the wizard's too strong'.

The downsides aren't enough because you've burned every spell banking on a strategy that relies on a very narrow set of things happening to not invalidate your existence. Once again this whole situation is white room theory crafting that is solved by any DM playing higher CR monsters to challenge your army then wiping it and your party.

>>53107130
We wanted you to learn to be team player and not a selfish piece of shit. If you can't do that and instead go on autistic rants, you should stop wrecking other people's fun and play by yourself.

>>53107130

Nobody in this Thread will ever be playing with you

Go ahead and talk to your Dm and your group about all that if they agree with you good for you, if they dont. dont bother this Thread anymore

>>53107130
Just go and play a video game mate

>>53107140
And, really, a necromancer wizard is full of vulnearbilities without a team. They'll be too scared to go anywhere they can't take their skeletons, if their skeletons are scared away they're fucked, if they get in trouble with a big order of paladins and have to worm their way out it's going to be really hard without someone covering their escape.

What really sucks is shit like cleric1/wizardX which makes the wizard much less dependent on others for protection, since they suddenly get 20 AC and can cast shit like shield on themself.

>>53107153
Well, alright.
Bard is better at skills. Stealth, perception, et cetera. Sometimes you can boost these skills with spells, but that's using spell slots. Bard also has shit like cutting words to protect teammates.
Clerics can revive teammates. Wizards can't. Spirit guardians is also a pretty neat spell, and the cleric has the AC to stand in the open there.
Paladin buffs everybody's saves,
And, really, not being good at damage is kind of a big deal sometimes when also you're not the best at stunning the most dangerous enemy that'll probably blow you off with legendary resistances whereas the monk can stun the same guy four times in a turn.
Wolf barbarian has some pretty damn good team support if you have a lot of melee characters.
A moon druid is an onion druid. Enough said, though wild shape can be used for utility. Flying and shit. And druids get some spells wizard doesn't - Spike growth, pass without trace, guidance.

>>53107097
How does WotC even manage to justify the 6-8 encounters thing? How is it even possible to run that many encounters per day without the session turning into an OSR game with random encounter tables and just straight up waking your party up with ambush after ambush while they try to rest?

I'm lucky to have 2-3 encounters per day with at least one being deadly.

>>53107161
'You're not a team player' is highly subjective because from my point of view, having a load of minions but with disadvantages is just another role in a team where some people can cover for you where you're vulnerable.

At least, it can't be any worse than a guy who builds a fighter solely for damage at range and stays away so they won't die but can also get high deepeeess and roll lots of cool dice.

>>53107164
I've played with a good few people from these threads, actually, so eh.
I'll probably bring it up at some point, considering they'd probably be more willing to listen rather than a back and forth argument that clutters the thread and doesn't get anywhere.

>>53107173
That's what I should be telling the 'Why should the world react to you? The DM should just play all enemies as braindead idiots' party.

>>53107238
Having 144 skellies is not being a team player and that opinion isn't subjective, you inconsiderate moron, what the fuck are the others in your party going to do, sit around and twiddle their thumbs in their ass because you want the story to be about your necromancer army.

You're swarming the field and disrupting player agency because of your autism and bewildering rationalization.

If you want a game where you think numbers and an excel spreadsheet mean something, play PF instead.

>>53106980
Think it would be less insane if it was Always on Mage Armor + the Alert Feat? It gives basically the same kind of flavor I'm looking for.

>>53107215
I think it goes back to the old "you spend about a week in this dungeon" good luck attitude. Its usually poor encounter design, PCs playing too paranoid, people trying to imitate CritRole forcing setpiece encounters after another over ye olde "trashpull" multiple goblin patrols wander the dungeon. No one uses Traps anymore and if they do forget to use Passive perception over rolls.

Take Death-house from curse of strahd and dont allow a long rest. thats about an intended adventure Day.

>>53107253
You're the one wanting to be the centre of attention in a group role playing game just to live out your necromancy fetish. If your group is okay with that then fuck off and play, otherwise just fuck off.

>>53107253
>That's what I should be telling the 'Why should the world react to you? The DM should just play all enemies as braindead idiots' party.

The problem is any enemy that isn't braindead will simply invest in ways to annihilate a bunch of skeletons. Not that hard to do since most parties start off doing just that

So taking that into account this whole thing only works against enemies that are animalistic or borderline retards.

>>53107333
>the villain realizes he is being hunted by a necromancer who has an army of several hundred skeletons at his disposal so he commissions his lair to be built with only 5 foot wide hallways with a pit trap every 5 feet on a time delay so after 100 skeletons walk over them single file they retroactively activate and decimate half his army

It's right out of the rich lich lair fortification tactics 101 field manual.

>>53107333
>>53107372
I'm imagining the necromancer is actually an Int 6 orc necromancer hurr-durring everywhere.

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>planning to introduce my players to a deck of many things next session
Should I take out some of the bad cards or keep them in?

>>53107408
Keep them in, you do want to play fair don't you, anon?

>>53107372
Or you know some enemies here, puzzle trap rooms, a couple floating skulls there, using ambushes and harder to kill monsters.

I mean there's alot of ways to deal with this that make you look like a jackass and useless. Just keeping whacking away with no real defense to it being actually fairly easy to decimate this op build.

>>53107408
Other than "just don't", take out the wishes, magic items, stat and level increases. Replaced with duplicates of whatever is left. Leave all the bad stuff in.

>>53107408
If you're throwing in the deck you throw in the deck. Gods help them if they decide to fuck with it.

>>53106047
Yeah sphinxes are awesome. One of my players bad mouthed an androsphinx and the sphinx brought the party back in time and deposited them in the player's home town, back when his mother was pregnant. the party had to protect his mother from two stone golems or he'd cease to exist and the party wouldn't ever have known him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZldDtBbizY

>>53107435
For a moment there I thought this was about to go the Fry is his own grandpa route, glad we could avoid that.

Since someone posted A Touch of Class last two threads, could we get some more opinions on it?
Lot of it seems like shit, but I could see the Morph being fun

What is the best wizard build? Including the best spells.

>>53107517
all buffs and spend the whole game buffing your team mates

>>53107525
So abjuration or enchantment

>>53107517
144 skeleton meme army necromancer build.

I've never DMed a high level game before and the group I'm running for is 13th level. Tips for challenging encounters or setting up a long term BBEG for them? Seems like at the higher levels it gets more difficult to find creatures to throw at the party without encounters getting slow and bogged down from a ton of enemies to bring the xp value of the encounter up to where it's needed.

>>53107567
Get creative and try homebrewing some enemies. A lich always makes a good long term opponent.

Wizards surveys see that not many campaigns go beyond level 10 so they don't put much content for things beyond level 10. As a result fewer people play past level 10.

>>53107097
The math actually works out to 3-6 encounter a day, for one thing.
>>53107215
>I'm lucky to have 2-3 encounters per day with at least one being deadly.
If one encounter is deadly, you *should* only be managing 2-4, depending on how far into deadly it is and how well you handle it. Look at the actual numbers.

>>53107592
>Coming soon, the 5e Epic Level Handbook, designed for PCs of levels above 10!

I suppose part of the problem is that CRs are much lower than levels. So a level 18 spellcaster (such as the Archmage and Archdruid) are CR12 and thus designed to be threats to much lower levelled characters.

Given what the other creatures of "high" CR are like, we'll probably have to wait for the books for dragons and fiends promised in Volo's Guide.

It kind of looks like past level 10, you should start exploring the planes.

>>53107305
Does anyone sleep in Death House?
Would you sleep in the Death House?

>>53107684
sleepless nights were had after death-house

>>53107680
Yeah, pretty much. You should be tackling things not of the material plane. Either that or throw in the tarrasque. I usually try and homebrew some tougher creatures for my players.

>>53107680
Is there a direct conversion for PC to CR? As in, I've created PCs to be used as NPCs but can't accurately gauge what their CR would be when the party fights them.

>>53107680

Or start fighting groups of PC classes.

>>53107537
Funny thing about that is it takes a week for a wizard to make their full army, and several days even for a necromancer.

I really want to see some of the fuckups that can happen because of the "follows the order until it is completed" rule, personally. It seems like the most dickish way to treat a necromancer. "Oh, you said attack them. They did, once. Order complete." Or the deliberate "Kill every human in the courtyard."

>>53107712
No, you have to run them through the same tables and ad hocs as custom monsters if you want to know as close as possible. It depends a lot on their tactics and abilities compared to your party's counters, even then.

>>53107680
Wizards did say they were going to stat out the archdevils and Chris Perkins was saying on Twitter he wanted to publish a product with a statted Laeral Silverhand, so we may see high level content yet.

>>53107684
Why would you want to sleep in the Death House. Death. House. Death.

>>53107712
Not really, just looking at the spellcaster levels for monsters.

Making a list of the more helpful ones (since stuff like Liches will have massively inflated CRs)

1st level spellcasters - Acolyte (1/4), Apprentice Wizard (1/4)
2nd level spellcasters - Kuo-Toa Whip (1), Hobgoblin Iron Shadow (2)
3rd level spellcasters - Orc Eye of Grummsh (2), Firenewt Warlock of Imix (1), Kobold Scale Sorcerer (1), Xvart Warlock of Raxivort (1)
4th level spellcasters - Cult Fanatic (2), Druid (2), Orc Hand of Yutrus (2), Bard (2)
5th level spellcasters - Priest (2), Lizardfolk Shaman (2), Orc Claw of Luthic (2)
6th level spellcasters - Sahuagin Priestess (2)
7th level spellcasters - Hobgoblin Devastator (4), Illusionist (3)
9th level spellcasters - Conjurer (6), Enchanter (5), Transmuter (5), War Priest (9)
10th level spellcasters - Drow Mage (7), Drow Priestess (8), Kuo-Toa Archpriest (6), Blackguard (8)
11th level spellcasters - Warlock of the Archfey (4)
12th level spellcasters - Evoker (9), Necromancer (9)
13th level spellcasters - Abjurer (9)
14th level spellcasters - Warlock of the Great Old One (6)
15th level spellcasters - Diviner (8)
17th level spellcasters - Warlock of the Fiend (7)
18th level spellcasters - Archmage (12), Archdruid (12)

Which tells us a few things about progression. Most notably, that Clerics are higher rated (obvious due to their better armour and such) and that warlocks suck.

>>53107720
Groups of Warlords, Archmages, and Archdruids. Those are the only NPCs to break CR10.

>>53107858
isnt the hobgoblin iron shadow a way of ths shadow monk instead of a spellcaster?

>>53107888
Say you have a party of 4 players. Wizard, Cleric, Rogue, Fighter. Would a team of 4 NPCs of like Barbarian, Favored Soul, Bard, Paladin not be a solid challenge at any level as long as the levels matched, or were close?

>>53107893
Nah, they receive magical training as well. They're a monk/wizard multiclass.

>>53107906
Well sure, you'll need to work out their challenge ratings though.

And from what we've seen, that means they'll need to be higher level than the party to provide a decent CR. So around level 20 or so.

>>53107680

YOu can easily play epic level on the Material plane especially in 5e with bound accuracy

Thats not how CR works it only really sums up when the amount of enemies are as many as the party

A group of 6 lvl 5 characters can technically kill an CR16 unless it has legendary actions with the right prep. A group of 6 lvl 5 will struggle hard against 3 CR 6 Chimeras or 6 CR3 Displacer Beasts for example.

at level 10 they could probably take on any SINGLE thing that doesnt have access to lair actions etc. but ohboy if they face 2 Hydras at once, or an entire Hag Coven possibly with thralls theyre in for a treat

It's a bad sign when the Artificer archetype for WIZ is better than the class despite being utterly mediocre just by virtue of being a Wizard instead of some kind of janky-ass barely caster with a gun on par with a sneak attack.

Is there a 5e encounter CR calculator yet?

>>53108010
http://kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder

its alright albeit not perfect, CR is tricky and heavily depends on monster area and how many there are (a succubus for example could charm kiss insta-kill you or fail and do less damage than a goblin at cr4)

>>53107858
What's up with the inconsistencies of Archmage/druid? They're listed as 18th level casters, which would put their proficiency at +6 with +5 in their respective main casting stats yet each only have a +9 to hit with spells when it should be +11.

Is this just a toning down in general I've overlooked until now? I feel as though giving them higher appropriate saves (Their save DC is only 17 where if they were PCs it would be 19), more slots of 6th-9th with additional spells known, and possibly a legendary action or two could boost the CR by 1-2 and more accurately reflect being PC-esque.

Can sleep darts put elves to sleep?
Are races with poison resistance resistant to sleep darts?

>>53108042
Feed that back to Wizards, maybe they can fix it.

>>53108090
Magic can't put elves to sleep.
They don't need to sleep but unclear whether they are actually immune to sleep effects.

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>>53108115
anon I don't think this is "magic".

In either case "unconscious" from sleep darts and such isn't the same as "asleep"

Is there a way to play dnd by myself?

>>53108042
Because they're not actually level 18 spellcasters as full classes.

They're CR12 humanoid monsters with level 18 spellcasting capability. It's why the Archmage has d8 hit dice. And why the Archdruid rolls 24 of the suckers.

>>53108093
I'm looking over the other casters the anon I quoted linked and it seems like beyond a certain CR threshold, the accuracy of what the NPC should be able to perform if properly statted gets wonky. Bards for example are listed as a 4th level caster with save DC12 and +4 to hit, which is entirely accurate as they would have proficiency 2 CHA 2.

But then jump up to illusionist and their save/to hit is bumped down -1 from where it should be. There seems to be some reasoning I'm overlooking.

The whole party is rolling for stats and I rolled 11, 7, 9, 7, 17, 4

What the fuck do I do?

>>53108153
Write a high fantasy adventure novel.

>>53108138
Yes, I'm clarifying that elves are immune to magic sleep effects and not necessarily mundane sleep effects.

>>53108176
Bump that 17 to a 19 with racials and play a big dumb fighter.

>>53108176
Tell your DM to stop being a fag and play point buy. Or put the 17 in dex and play a ranged rogue.

>>53108176
Druid.

You could play a Druid semi-effectively with 1,1,1,1,1,1.

Go 4, 7, 7, 9, 17, 11.

>>53108176
How the fuck did you roll that?

>>53108138
Then what about poison resistance?

>>53108227
Do elves have poison resistance?

>>53108236
Dwarves and some halflings do...

>>53108207
Also free background idea-

Normal human to bump all those odds up one.
You're an elderly but wise (though not really intelligent, could play off as not booksmart due to lifetime in the woods) Druid who's left your usual area to do... something? Maybe you're looking for an apprentice since you're gonna croak soon, or you need to find some other Druids to get a replacement to watch over your area? Maybe you already had an apprentice, and after their training was complete you took to wandering to see some other lands before dying?

>>53108227
I'd assume poison resist would work for things like sleep darts.

>>53108238
Well resistance isn't immunity. It's like shooting a Wraith with a stunner. it'll work with enough tries. Or just use sleep.

If you're that worried about it Ninjas can do both equally well, right?

>>53108090
What type of sleep darts? Got a statline?

>>53108176
Moon druid my man. Your high wisdom is all that matters

>>53108176
Dwarven Revenent Barbarian. Start with 20 CON and 11 STR, with Reckless Attack you'll still have a decent chance to hit until you can increase it.

Plus you'll have 17HP at level 1 with resistance and be able to regenerate while under half.

>>53108090
Yes according to RAW

Poison is not magic

>>53106515
Turning a lot of skeletons into one big skeleton seems silly. I'd rather use skeleton swarms.

>>53108416
>recommending Revenant
>ever

Cmon son. As much as I think they're cool thematically they're stupidly broken.

>>53108461
With those stats I'd allow it at my table, boy needs all the help he can get.

>>53106970
>>53106990
>>53107010
Let me try to help.

With bounded accuracy, all enemies will still have a good chance of having an effect on the game. Even when the party is level 10, should they encounter a band of goblins it's no longer "okay let's just skip this encounter they can't realistically hurt us."

It makes the game world more belieable and, generally, more enjoyable.

The other argument is that you can focus on making a character using options that are flavourful, rather than 'optimal'. This will usually make for more interesting characters and a more fun game experience.

>>53108163
Monster proficiency is based on their CR, not level of spellcasting, not hit dice.

>>53108533
He should play a 4 con wild sorc, so he can help retire those shitty rolls ASAP.

I'm thinking of doubling the listed weapon damage for all weapons to help balance casters against marshals. Like long sword from 1d8 to 2d8. Do you think that helps balance things?

>>53107408
Make up your own deck. Let's do it together!
Roll 1d50! (1d100/2)
>01: Doomed Fool
Your character is wiped from existence and their soul destroyed. A 5 feet radius sphere of annihilation emerges where you once stood. It remains there for a year.

>02: Black, Rotted Heart.
Your heart withers away and turns into an immortal snake. It slowly grows as it eats up your whole body, then it digs into the core of the earth.

>03: Burning Hatred
You are permanently cursed. Every time somebody else feels hatred towards you, you are set on fire for 2d6 damage per turn. This fire remains for as long as they continue to hate you.

>04: Host of Demons
Every morning a random demon bursts from your throat, dealing you 2d10 damage and waking you up.

>05: Song of Silence
Your character utters a single syllable and can never speak again. All who hears you must test DC 15 wisdom save or be deafened for 1d20 days.

>06: Wicker Man
Your soul is destroyed. You feel empty inside and can never again be resurrected.

>07: Cold, cold heart.
Your heart freezes solid. You can no longer be affected by mind control spells, and you have resistance to cold damage. However, if a source of fire damage deals maximum damage to you (2d6 rolling 12, for example), your character instantly dies.

>08: Guise of God
You appear holy and gain +2 charisma. Devout people of any faith will be inclined to trust you instantly. Abominations and fiends that are not alligned with a deity will be inclined to target you.

>09: Boiling Blood
Your blood boils, whenever you take damage that would cause you to leak blood, a boiling steam emerges and damages everyone within 10 feet of you, including you, for 1d6+your number of hit die.

>10: Precious Frame
Your body turns crystallic and you gain +2 constitution and damage reduction 1 from non magical sources. Any effect that would deal additional damage to an object also deals an additional 1d10 damage to you.

Is it still possible for Vecna-style and thus god-penetrative shenanigans in 5e Ravenloft?

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>>53107408
Rig the deck so that after it's shuffled you place the card you want them to pick on top. Then deal it to them.

Matthew Colville did a video on the deck with this exact trick, will probably work alright.

>>53108712
Damage was never the issue

>>53108712
>8d6+26 damage at will at level 5
Good luck with that

>>53108712
Put a greater emphasis on player backstory in non-combat encounters. Focus a bit more on the non-casters.

>>53108772
>+26

What?

>>53108712
Casters are imbalanced because they have a thousand options and magic can do silly things like delete enemies from this plane of existance with no threat to the caster. It doesn't help that martials tend not to have built in defenses or defensive options when confront with magic other than meat points.

>>53108712
Add proficiency to damage works better.

I'm in a party of 6 pc total, we have a rogue, two warlocks, a barb and a mystic. I want to do a little healing and other non direct damage spells

Am I better off bard or druid?

>>53108712
That's completely unnecessary.

I can't speak for other people's experiences obviously, but when I DM'd a party through PotA the characters were all balanced just fine. The party was Barbarian, Paladin, Rogue, Warlock and Wizard - the Barbarian was easily the MVP, putting out consistently high damage while being basically untouchable while the Wizard fluctuated between star player, dropping level-boosted Fireballs into crowded rooms, and back liner plinking away with cantrips for not much damage.

All in all, the damage differential wasn't that much, but more importantly they both shone in different circumstances. Doubling the damage die for weapons would have made the Wizard entirely redundant except for buffing the Barbarian.

>>53108778
GWM

>>53108798
Favored Soul Sorcerer

>>53108712
The issue is that casters can be utility and do good damage, to fix martials they need to get more utility that casters can't just do with cantrips/spells

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How do you guys feel about having a Vargouille as a familiar?

>inb4 it'll help me get ahead

>>53108802
Still, where does the extra 16 come from?

>>53108176
Become an advocate for point buy from here on out.

I can't find that graph that shows fighter doing damage and wizard doing damage or choosing from a bunch of other options

>>53108830
4 attacks, +4 str?

>>53108833
Already was one my friend

>>53108809
Oh fuck I meant to say 2 sorcerers and not 2 warlocks, I looked into that but I don't want 3 sorcerers in the party

>>53108722
>>04: Host of Demons
>Every morning a random demon bursts from your throat, dealing you 2d10 damage and waking you up.
>>10: Precious Frame
>Your body turns crystallic and you gain +2 constitution and damage reduction 1 from non magical sources. Any effect that would deal additional damage to an object also deals an additional 1d10 damage to you
I like these ones, I'm gonna rip them off and use them in my campaign at some point somehow
the demon one especially, it's like a comedic gag because some demon just appears out of your throat every morning

>>53108830
4d6 is weapon
3 is str mod
10 is GWM
Fighter attacks twice at level 5

>>53108850
Wrong

>>53108841
So two attacks + action surge + two attacks

>>53108861
What do you mean wrong?
What part is wrong?

>>53108850
>>53108861
No, not wrong you idort.

2*(4d6+3+10)

>>53108849
Ayo. My campaign is full of things like this.

>>53108823
aren't you only allowed to pick from the familiar list?

Sheesh. Why is Sunday always the low point in quality around here?

>>53108846

Probably bard then.

>>53108883
It's not because it's sunday, its just eu hours

>>53108883
it's 830am, people are at church

>>53108892
>implying we aren't all satanists and witches

>>53108888
Kinda where I'm leaning. We have one guy in the party who min/maxes everything, he's playing mystic, and always bitches about how useless bards are in dnd. Kinda just want to make one to piss him off. I've never played one but they seem good, and I want him to throw a fit.

Can the gods enter 5e Ravenloft, Y/N?

>>53108823
>>53108882
It's a variant rule from Volo's; as long as it's tiny or smaller it can be a familiar. DM obviously won't let you have a Demilich tho

>>53108943
I'd say no. Mortals in, Vistani out, nothing else.

But Clerics of that god can obviously still cast spells inside.

>>53108951
Are the Dark Powers blocking them? Or is it a property of the demiplane? Or is it Strahd himself's doing?

>>53108970
The Dark Powers are the ones controlling the mists, so I'd say that.

>>53108922
>bards suck

5e? Play Lore Bard and be the best character in the party.

>>53108909
You don't attend satanic church? We had a bake sale and everything

>>53108772
What weapon does 4d6 to get doubled to 8d6. But I get the joke, fireball is 8d6.
>>53108796
So it wouldn't be a problem if I also had a bunch of magical items/technology available to all that mimic effects. Like breathing apparatus for underwater, jetpacks/jump boosters for short flight, fragmentation grenades for crowd control. Does considering it magical or not threaten balance?
>>53108800
Good point. What if cantrips could do more damage with a resource? Casters could still have their spells, but if non-casters have access to more powerful weapons it may hurt the balancing of cantrip damage scaling. Maybe a cantrips damage die could be doubled too?

>>53109017
Great sword is 2d6 as written in the phb

>>53108996
Ah, good stuff.

>>53109004
And cookies.

>>53109028
Ahh! That is a good point. Multi-attack. Maybe no greatsword. But maybe 2d10 greatswords?

>>53106049
> No gnomes

So many of you have shit tastes

>>53109053
Lol

First time playing wizard today. How do I not fuck this up?

>>53109098

You've already won, no worries. Pick spells that buff your allies, debuff your enemies, or crowd control. Also utility spells for situations you think might come up. If you don't want to be a dick, avoid spells that step on the toes of other classes like Knock.

Grease and Prestidigitation are the best spells ever.

>>53109053
Actually, the more that I think about it. 4d6 greatsword is fine. 4 to 24 damage sounds respectable. Combat will be sped up a good deal and gives more room to take on greater CR threats at earlier levels. I honestly wouldn't mind players gaining levels faster with easier combat either.

>>53109053
What the goddamn fuck are you smoking?

>>53109053
Martials already do a lot of damage.

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>>53109129

>>53109098
Don't fall for the damage meme. Tasha's hideous laughter and the like are where it's at. Pick divination subclass.

>>53109147
This. Divination level 2 is amazing and will help your allies every single time you use it.

>>53109076
manlet detected

>>53109141
So it doesn't matter if weapon attack damage is increased to allow more versatility then right? Anyone can swing a sword. Martials will still be better at damage than casters. Although I think double damage cantrips are in order too.

>>53108602
Well there you go.

>>53109162
Damage isn't versatility, and cantrips already scale.

Don't homebrew and don't DM. Go play a video game.

>>53109162
Look, all the damages are perfectly fine as it is.

The only real problem is lack of martial versatility and utility outside of combat, mainly because they have no codified rules about how to use their strength or dexterity outside of battle whereas casters' entire shtick, spells, are basically little snippets of special rules that let them circumvent certain situations.

>>53109172
I'm just presenting ideas I've been considering for a future setting homebrew as a troll argument against casters to generate some quick discussion on it. Opening up the damage ranges is allowing me to create more weapons, like assault rifles, laser swords and ray guns. I think providing a wider range for damage can help scale weapon abilities that may mimic spells or allow weapons that deal a greater variety of damage types than just p/s/b from the start.

So far seems like a good idea still. At least it will be fun.

>>53108712
>>53109162
Instead of fixing the gap between casters and martials, wouldn't this just increase the gap between fighters and other martials?

>>53108999
What makes lore so good?

>>53109239

They can skill/spell/stab pretty well in every regard, and they can steal spells from any spell list and add it to their own.

>>53109203
Things like that can just be considered magic weapons, which is fine, but you can't just fuck around with the basic damage levels of the normal weapons.

It's funny because I'm actually currently creating a few monster stat blocks for a campaign where the PCs will end up on another plane(t) filled with alien creatures, and for their laser weapons I've just taken the various crossbow stats and turned the damage radiant - which is a buff in and of itself - while still retaining the proven maths of the normal weapons.

>>53109266
Why is a damage type change to radiant a buff?

>>53109277
Less likely to be resisted

>>53106486
I'd allow it but it's an unarmed attack to headbutt or if you have something attached a 1d4 improvised weapon.

>>53109266
I make laser weapons brilliant energy in my games (if they come up). Bullets get the same thing, just labeled different.

For some reason in my head I can't help but think being stabbed, sliced, or bludgeoned is more painful than being shot.

>>53106592
His language is atrocious but you'd have to be on the short bus yourself not to understand it.

Setting up a party of level 17 characters for a one-shot D&D session for when me and the group are going to the coast for a few days, since none of us have really done high level campaign stuff.

Party are getting three rare magical items each, and a 4th "Legendary/Artefact" level item tailored to fit each character.

For our Beastmaster Ranger, I thought instead of an item, I'm thinking about giving him a Wyrmling Dragon as his companion. I'm not too concerned about power since it's 17th level and a one-or-two session campaign, but do you think it will be sufficiently cool or interesting enough or will it be "So a dragon is cool but no custom artifact? I mean the Bard has that cool adamantine rapier that does sonic damage and always hits max damage against constructs and objects."

>>53109321
Or someone who doesn't have english as a first language.

>>53106626
You sound like a shit DM. Just off the bat, the DM has to shape the game to the players.

>>53109336

Rapier sounds like a pretty meh artifact. Make it a big enough dragon that he can ride it and you'll be fine.

>>53109282
That's just laziness. I see that argument from time to time, but if you always copy paste monsters from the DMG into your games you will always have problems of certain options being always better and certain options always worse. I didn't think about it that though, I usually write a few new stat blocks up each week for my game. Thanks for the perspective.

>>53109189
So radio communication, jump packs, and other technology doesn't threaten game balance then right? It just allows a character without access to magic access to similar bypasses, albeit with way more planning. Which preserves the usefulness of casters as more versatile.

>>53108345
I eas reading the MM and saw goblins have slaves in their mines, and wondered if it wouldnt make more sense for them to have poisoned weapons.
Kina "fail con save, you feel woozy, next turn roll at start.of turn to see if you fall over"

>>53109368

Eh, there's a magic item for everything. Depends on how important some things are for your world. For instance, I tend to give my parties some sort of mid range communication item because they tend to split up, and it allows them plan on the fly more easily without wasting spell slots on talking.

You can find a magic item that does anything technology can do, so really your question has been answered by the existance of the Magic item Compendium existing.

>>53108186
not the one you answered to, but actually taking the log of a DnD session and converting it into a book should be pretty awesome

>>53108947
>Demilich in a familiar bond with a level 1 warlock
>Is technically his undying patron
>Occasionally wakes up to give him his level up or to help him not die because the fuck is too lazy to float by himself
>other than that just sleeps on his shoulder or in his bag
>is fine with doing skeleton jokes or Hamlet

>>53106331
With point buy a sorclock will not have 18 cha.

>>53109115
Do I even need prestigitation if I got minor illusion?

>>53109345
Still trying to place the power of the items, first draft was a +3 Rapier that did 2d8 extra sonic damage on hit which is maximised vs constructs, which feature heavily in two of the encounters. (One is a high level cleric with a pair of shield-guardians and some fodder, the other is a fight against a large group of helmed horrors.).

But I guess ultimately a Rapier that does bonus damage is kind of dull.

Characters are a Champion Fighter, Swashbuckling Rogue, Beastmaster Ranger, Life-Domain Cleric and a Dragonblood Sorcerer.

Fighter perhaps some kind of one handed sword or spear, or possibly a legendary shield.
Rogue I think a fancy rapier or maybe fancy cloak?
Ranger I quite like the idea of a wyrmling dragon pet, the breath attack, huge stats and massive AC it will have alone will make it powerful especially once it adds all the ranger bonuses too.
Cleric is Polearm Master, so some kind of divine boosted polearm, or perhaps a not-staff-of-healing strapped to a halberd? I want to give them something that helps their healing so they dont have to invest so many spells into it, but at the same time doesn't scream "Healbitch." and gives them interesting options in combat.
Dragonblood Sorcerer I think just some staff of the magi with more tailored spells to them could be useful enough.

>>53109393
But your basic argument is that it wouldn't hurt game balance if martials had access to technology. There are after all, magic items that mimic them. But what if they weren't magical and could be build, bought and sold with relative ease. It just doesn't really matter, does it?

>>53109431
I forget where this comes from, it's Expanded Prestidigitation.

oo You cause a page of a book to appear blank for 1 hour.

oo You cause a glowing green arrow to appear; it will point in a cardinal direction you choose for 1 round.

oo You can cause one creature you touch to become sterile for one hour. This use of prestidigitation is instantly countered by the spell fertility (q.v.).

oo You count the number of objects of one type that are no smaller than a grain-of-rice size that are within a single pile or container, or that are in a 5-yard square.

oo Sort small objects (none of which may be heavier than half an ounce) into discrete piles based on one criterion of your choice (such as color or shape).

oo You touch a plate of food or cup of drink and learn it’s quality: rotten, poor, average, good, or gourmet. This does not reveal the existence of poison or other containments.

oo Your hair or beard is neatly trimmed by 1/2 inch, or grows by 1/2 inch.

oo You shape a Medium-sized or smaller patch of nonmagical smoke or fog into any shape you wish, although you’re incapable of fine detail. You can even cause it to move slightly.

oo You may an object waterproof for the duration, although fully immersing it in liquid for 1 minute or more will end the spell.

oo You create an umbrella of magical force. You can choose its appearance or make it invisible.

oo You can alter the pitch, tone, and accent of your voice. You can even give yourself a slight speech impediment (such as a minor lisp or stutter) ot change your voice so you sound like a member of a different race or sex.

It's fun for roleplaying and just non combat dickery.

>>53109433
The sonic damage is neat, but this is an Artifact! Why not give it some fun power like when you stab a construct with it, if you leave it in the construct comes under your complete control.

Artifacts are allowed to be stupid broken, it's their job.

>>53109476
No, it doesn't really matter. Casters are broken because they have a million crazy options and can also fly around and shoot lasers. Easily acquired magic items just follows the "if everyone is broken, it's balanced" philosophy.

>>53109510
How is flying around broken when casters can do it in the base game but somehow every character having easier access to that kind of option would make it overpowered? I don't understand here.

>>53109598
What? I said casters are broken for other reasons, but they can ALSO just fly around and shoot things.

A caster flying around by himself is usually a soon to be dead caster.

Any good tips for an Arcana domain cleric?

>>53109638
Same deal. What other options makes the caster have a limit of power higher than non-casters? If it's the versatility to do other "versatile" things but also ft around and shoot lasers. So if you give martials fly around and shoot laser powers too, it doesn't threaten game balance. What could I give martials that would make casters irrelevant given the access to the same gear? Can casters be made irrelevant to martials or can it only happen in one direction? Can casters only make martials irrelevant but martials can now supplant that from casters? What is the tipping point then, if there is one?

>>53109666
can not supplant*

What I'm trying to get at is game balance between casters and non casters threatened by giving non casters versatile, non magical items and easy access to them that achieve the same goals as magic. I don't want to change game balance. I've played a lot of DnD for a long time and I think the game is balanced just fine right now. I don't what to upset that balance. But I know a lot of people believe in caster supremacy, so I want to come to understanding from a different perspective of this idea of balance.

>>53109797
I don't think the game is too imbalanced as long as players stay away from certain specific things, and casters are superior to martials when not including gear or player ability. The balance doesn't become ruined by giving martials easy access to spell equivalents as long as those equivalents don't outright replace the martial's options. The best defenses against magic are Spell Resistance, Mind Blank, and Antimagic Fields. Access to those doesn't make either side irrelevant, it just gives one access to defense they wouldn't otherwise have.

On the other hand, a fighter lobbing grenades that are just fireballs stops being a fighter and starts being a refluffed wizard.

>Player picks guidance cantrip
>He says he's always casting guidance
>Every check ever gets guidance
>Even initiatives for all players
>DM and players have to step in and ask how every now and then

Is this the most disruptive cantrip?

>>53109877
I think that fighter remains a fighter. He can lob grenades, even shoot them from his grenade launcher, but a drag grenade is 5d6, not quite a fireball but close. The fighter is still a frontline combatant, with guns or laser sword or grenade launchers. The fighter, in this scenario, still stays distinct with distinct abilities apart from the wizard. A wizard can create an even more powerful grenade like effect but the fighter just now also has some grenades that are similar. How does that make a fighter just a refluffed wizard now. What if armor gave resistance to damage types? Does that make anyone who dons that armor just like a refluffed wizard for being able to give themselves any resistance they want, again with the martial needing more resource investment and planning.

>>53109917
The spell is concentration and lasts only one minute.

You can only concentrate on one spell at a time. And he has to recast it often.

You failed as a GM.

>>53109917
>Even initiative for all players

Well that's not how it works since it's a concentration spell, also it an ability check and initiative is not that.

>>53109950
Initiative is a dexterity check.

>>53109970
Initiative is initiative. Like attack rolls and ability checks it's completely separate mechanically.

>>53110000
Never mind, google proved me wrong.

>>53109942

I meant if throwing the grenades was universally a better option than hitting with sword. Defensive options don't unmake the fighter, offensive ones do. When it's more beneficial to lay lightning traps and throw grenades and mind control and summon enslaved elementals and such, to the point where they no longer use their class features, then why be a fighter at all?

>>53110000
>>53110012
Yes, the book itself outright calls initiative a dexterity check on page 177.

>>53109917

>Concentration spell
>active on 4+ people at a time
Nope

>>53110030
I better inform our bard that he actually has a higher initiative bonus than he thought as the level 2 feature affect initiative rolls.

>>53109917
He can only cast guidance on one person though? also one extra d4 for every check is exactly why guidance is good.

>>53110059
Your bard is an idiot for not realizing that himself desu.

>>53110019
But if those options were available is it more efficient to lay a mine that an enemy may step on and Dex save for half of 5d6 is it it better to swing twice with my 4d6 chainsaw greatsword and annihilate the enemy. I'm still under the assumption of doubling the weapon damage and cantrips damage as well.

I'd agree with the stuff. But why can't a fighter who is also a brilliant technician over time craft an apparatus and procedure to mind control something? It doesn't make him a wizard. Wizard does that with a snap of the finger but what if fighter could do it with a few years of R&D plus production time? I still don't think it makes him a wizard or even better than a wizard. Same with the summoning, the fighter could throw out a relay grenade and teleport in some allies but he pays good resources for it and has very good attack options.

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>>53110059
also inform your champion if you have one.

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>>53106049
>No gnomes

>>53110074
He's one of those players that barely participate in the game. He just sits quietly at the table and after 4 months of playing he barely remembers any rules.

>>53110114
What if the swords are sentient and talkative?

>>53110093
I guess I just don't see why you wouldn't pick a different system. Sounds like you want to play a warhammer game.

>>53110189
It's a homebrew. Cry about it if you can't wrap your head around the idea. DnD can do high fantasy sci fi settings too.

3 players have independently told me about wizard ideas they have.

One is a dwarf who doesn't believe magic is real.

One is a gnome who thinks magic derives from love.

One is an orc who is confused for a medicine man or shaman.

All 3 ideas make me want to do a comedy wizard school campaign. The admins of the school think these guys are dumbasses but don't kick them out because someone is paying their tuition.

What are some inspirations for school-based campaigns? I cannot think of any stories to read to gain some inspiration.

>>53109652
Grab a spear or quarterstaff, GFB as one of your wizard-gone-cleric cantrips, and a 1 level dip into Monk. Probably want the Warcaster feat as well.

>>53110276
How the fuck do you learn to cast magic while thinking it isn't real?

>>53110292
You got me, but the idea sounds funny as hell. He told he's going to cast while constantly explaining why it's bullshit.

"I didn't cast Shield, you just missed."

>>53110292
By being a sorcerer with really unlucky spell affinity.

>>53110319
Says he is a wizard.

>>53110266
I'm not crying about it. Just saying. Don't be so defensive.

>>53110292
>>53110319
If you mean what is he going to do mechanically, he's going to be an abjurer wizard because he's studying magical theory in order to debunk it.

>>53110333
that's the same as being an atheist cleric.

>>53110386
OK

I'm still going to DM for it because I like the way he described his character's personality and how he would roleplay his refusal to believe that magic was working.

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>>53110332
No tears mate! /tg is love!

>>53110386
I'd say its worse. You could argue a cleric could just have his powers forced on him by a god where as I don't see how you could possibly argue for learning about magic to point you can cast spells and still claim it isn't real.

>>53106338
Warlock Necromancer multiclass can spam Animate Dead per short rest starting at level 10. I think it comes out to 100 skeletons or something.

>>53110434
I guess you missed where this exists for a comedy campaign and I'm looking for inspirational material for a school campaign.

>>53106515
Enemy casters can cast Fireball, followed by Animate Dead.

>>53109917
Demand he makes a prayer to his god every time he casts it. Aldo no answer can happen

>>53106542
Finding corpses is not a problem for an adventuring party. But Animate Dead just requires a "pile of bones". Supposedly, eating enough chickens or pork chops or T-bone steaks gives you Skeleton material.

>>53110456
Fair enough. I'm sure that is a joke that definitely won't get old after a single session.

>>53110523
I've DMed for the guy for years. He can keep these kinds of things fresh for year-long campaigns. There's nothing wrong with a cheesy idea if the person behind it is a good roleplayer.

>>53110333
So his spellbook would be notes on how to debunk various forms of magic?

>>53110498
Well sure, it's just a skeleton chicken or whatever.

So take the animal you got the bones from, then apply the skeleton or zombie template.

>>53106155
This is an argument for distributing, and filling roles, and avoiding triple rogue campaigns so the unique power factor comes into play.

What's the usual build for volley ranger? Should I pick horde break or colossus slayer at level 3?

>>53109098
Here's a build:

Forest Gnome Wizard-1
STR 8, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 8.

SAVES: STR -1, DEX+3, CON+2, INT+5, WIS+2, CHA-1
Gnome Cunning: Advantage on INT, WIS, and CHA saves against Magic.

AC 16 (Mage Armor, +3 DEX)
HP 8

Light Xbow +5/1d8+3 damage.
Dagger+5/1d4+3 damage.

SKILLS: Arcana+5, History+5, Investigation+5, Nature+5, Religion+5

Spell Attack +5
Spell Save DC 8+INT+Prof (13)
Spells Prepared: INT+level (4)

Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Mending, Mage Hand

Spellbook: Detect Magic, Identify, Find Familiar, Mage Armor, Sleep, Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

Owl familiar uses flyby and takes help maneuver to help the biggest damage dealer in your party.

Hit big dumb enemies with Tasha's as soon as possible. Hit lots of little enemies with Sleep after they've been softened up a bit (round 3-4+).

Use Minor Illusion to create a bush or rock or crate or barrel and hide in it for total concealment. You are solid snake.

As a last resort, shoot your crossbow or stab with your dagger. Shoot with advantage if you're covered with Minor Illusion. Remember, staying hidden will save your life, even at higher levels.

>>53111214
Almost forgot. Take Divination and use Portent to make enemies fail saves vs devastating things like Tashas Hideous Laughter and Hold Person. See if your DM will allow you to wait a few days before adventuring so you can get good Portent rolls.

>>53110436
11th level, as you'd want the Undead Thralls feature. Afterward you can maintain 5 undead per casting, and you'd spend 2 minutes casting twice, then rest an hour. As a result you can cast 46 times in a 24 hour period, maintaining 230 skeletons.

>>53106036
i dont allow any multiclassing because almost every single person ive met that wants to multiclass wants to do it to get some op or cheese combo

and the rest of the people that want to multiclass are just newbie retards that thinks its cool

>>53111251
At higher level focus on Conjures for combat, they are super-effective. Before then, pick up Color Spray and Magic Missile at 2nd level. Flaming Sphere and Hold Person at 3rd. Locate Object and Detect Thoughts at 4th. Counterspell and Hypnotic Pattern at 5th, Dispel Magic and Haste at 6th, Conjure Minor Elementals and either Polymorph or Banishment at 7th, Arcane Eye and Locate Creature at 8th, Animate Objects and Conjure Elemental at 9th. That ought to see you through.

Rolled 17, 12, 3, 7, 10, 15 = 64 (6d20)

I want to see how much of a chuckle fuck this character would be.

>>53111379
pretty good desu

>>53111391
The chance of dying from leveling up is unnerving.

>>53111421
You can't get negative HP from level up.

>>53111433
As in not possible, or I missed a rule?

>>53111433
Why not?
I checked the errata and page 15, and they don't seem to have minimum hitpoints.

> can't have a horse or an axe beak as my animal companion

Why is beast master so shitty.

>>53111460
sageadvice

How often does unearthed arcana come out?

>>53111621
Once a month.