Pathfinder General /pfg/

Pathfinder, the game that succeeded because 4e was bad, but is dying because 5e is good...

Sigh.

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>>53097695
What are your evil queens like?

>>53097728

Thank god.

As bad as bounded accuracy is, 5e is a better, cleaner game.

I try again.

What kind of monster or non-human/non-PC creature would be the thematic opposit of a Dragon?

>>53097753
A kirin?

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>>53097734
Hellenic Greek vampire oracles or clerics of primordial gods.

She might be a Battle Templar or something. I can't get the schedule to work at my LGS.

>>53097747
>As bad as bounded accuracy is

But bounded accuracy is part of why 5e is good. Suppressing power inflation to bring the game back to a more grounded feel was part of the point.

>>53097753
A tiger!

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>>53097753
Tarrasque

>>53097804
>back to a more grounded feel
>back to
>back
No previous edition of D&D felt 'grounded'.
The biggest reason I detest 5e, besides being oversimplified, is that your character doesn't feel like a hero. If I wanted to play a gritty 'realistic' power game I'd use another system, 5e feels lame instead of heroic. Now Pathfinder's rocket tag bullshit isn't good either mind you, but low powerlevel isn't good because a level 20 getting mobbed by as many goblins just makes you feel lame.

>>53097804
>Bounded accuracy is good!

Tell me why a Balor should be able to die just from hiring a bunch of archers then sempai

Why are we letting a page 2 new thread slide as if it was nothing?

>>53097846
Because underhanded tricks are a sword and sorcery staple. It also means that more monsters become more useful to actually utilize in a normal campaign

>>53097835

You're trapped in the wake of big numbers and big power = HERO. I'm not really sure how to convince you that it doesn't need to be that way. Great things can be done from humble means.

Plus, characters in 5e still see continual gains in their strength and abilities as they progress. They can tackle ever-increasing challenges. The difference is that they don't fly into other leagues of ability entirely.

>>53097929
It also means that 5e enforced health bloat as its means of making high CR monsters a threat. Which is bad.

>>53097978
>They can tackle ever-increasing challenges
Which can be accomplished simply by hurling a hundred peasants at the problem. I'm not trapped in the wake of big numbers and big power = hero, I'm saying I want to play a heroic epic and not a gritty hero. I don't want to play as the guy from Saving Private Ryan, not in D&D at least, no I want to play Conan and King Solomon.

So let me get this straight. I'm a 20 Dex, level 6 dervish dance magus with a keen scimitar+1 and i just got Empowered Magic as a feat. I have a 15-20 crit range, effectively making 25% of my attacks possible crits (which are almost always confirmed since i have +10 on attacks) in which I can cast Shocking Grasp with my 6+d6 scimitar for an effective 12d6+12 damage on a critical strike, which can be empowered once a day for 2d6+12+(10d6)*1.5, and all i need is to prepare ONE (1) shocking grasp since I can recast it 6 more times a day thanks to spell recall.

Is this correct?
Have I created a monster?

>>53097997

If you need to be set above others to such a degree that they cannot hope to contribute to your heroism, then that's big numbers and big power. That's superheroism. Pathfinder is about magical superheroes. It is the game you want to play and the hero you want to be.

>>53098010
That sounds correct by RAW yeah

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>>53098033

Does the Stamina system for Starfinder sound fun to you?

>>53098028
Yes, it is, and that's why I'm not playnig 5e right now. Again if I wanted to play a game about everyday heroes then I wouldn't be playing Dungeons and Dragons. I started with AD&D, which had broken shit too, and moved onto other systems along with 3.5e and PF, 4e and stuff too, but you'll realize that all of these were literally about superheroes. An AD&D character, despite being squishy, ended things entire armies couldn't dream of opposing. I don't want to play as what amounts to a fireman when I'm level 10 and I don't want to be worth only 20 other people at level 20. That's dumb and 5e doesn't even model realism or low power well. Even 4e was better, not only because its powerlevel wasn't quite so low, but because it was so different that it was barely even D&D and tried to do what it did well - and it still does so better than 5e, which is oversimplified trite that feels like it's just 3.5e with a damper.
5e did feats right though, I'll give you that, Cook is a fucking retard

>>53098010
You have the standard Magus Build, assuming you have both of the typical metamagic traits. Welcome to Magi, where the only build is the one that triggers paizo autists because "OMFG IT CAN DO BIG NUMBERS A FEW TIMES A DAY!!!!"

>only need to prepare ONE shocking grasp
Buy a bunch of first level boro beads to save spell recall points.

>>53098106
Aren't Boro Beads for extracts only?

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>>53098010
It works until you have to do a sewer dungeon and have to fight a Gelatinous Cube, or a swamp exploration and have to fight a Shocker Lizard.

JB and MM. If you're reading this, I'm sorry, but I bend the random encounter tables for no one.

>>53098010
I might recommend switching out Empowered Spell for Intensify Spell, but that's just me.

Depends on whether you feel better about rolling a few dice and multiplying, or rolling lots of dice.

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>>53098106
>>53098140
>Say Boro Beads
>I meant Pearls of Power

I play too many fucking alchemists/investigators, christ.

>>53098174
Intensify only really becomes worth it (if you have both metamagic traits at least) after about 8th~ I'd imagine. 1.5*5d6 would usually beat out 6-7d6

>>53098161
>fight a Gelatinous Cube
>how are gelatinous cubes nigga just walk away hahahaha

seriously though, there's always shit like frost touch that i have available if shocking grasp doesn't work, and even then i still have a flat 12+2d6 scimitar on crits which is pretty decent on its own

>>53098174
i'll take intensify spell later, since i don't get the most out of it until i get more levels - taking it last level would've meant i could've increased it by just 1d6 for a level 2 spell slot

>>53098177
>>53098106
i'll take it in account, thanks for pointing that out

>>53098201
you can't crit oozes nigga

>>53098201
>touch an ooze
>be right next to an ooze
>it swallows you

>>53096240
>when you specialize in Dark sphere but nobody else in the team has Darkvision

w-wew, no problem guys, I'll send you the bill for that wand

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>>53098201
You can't walk away if your paralyzed, you have to make the knowledge (dungeoneering) check to figure out what works on them, and you can't make critical hits on oozes.

I was also using the Critical Fumble deck.

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>>53098225
>>53098243
>>53098261

alright maybe that is an issue
my main concern with this dude is that he's pretty much a one-trick pony, frost touch is pretty much all the versatility he has

what would you recommend to make the dude more useful in terms of combat or avoiding it

>>53098277
You're a magus

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>>53098277
>a Magus
>being a one-trick pony
>hoping for versatility

You're in the wrong class entirely for that sort of thing, senpai. You're in the class with the worst parts of being a 3/4th BAB martial and the worst parts of being a vancian 6th caster, with barely any of the benefits of either.

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>>53098277
Live long enough to get more spells.

You're a martial, so there's no avoiding combat.

The examples I gave earlier might be outliers in your campaign. Have someone else in your party have a backup plan.

How long have you been playing the character?

Reminder that sleep was planning on running a party of six, not four. Odds are good a couple people from the waiting list could get thrown in after the players and sleep have a better idea who would well fit.

>>53098431
What if you're not on the waiting list?

>>53098325
Just play an Occultist fampai

>>53098437
Then you're boned I guess.

Maybe get someone to gm a party for the leftovers.

>>53098256
That's what Clearsight and Mass Meld are for.

>>53098437
>>53098457
Knowing Sleep, you'd get pushed up to a new waiting list if you're still available.
He's a softie.

>>53098553
>faggots still bringing shitcord drama from the shitposting channel into the thread

>>53098543
I put a lot of thought into my character and am disappointed I couldn't play them. At this point I'll just

Pm someone who did get in

:V

>>53098553
Literally
Nobody
Cares

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Well, I was pretty sure from the start she'd never make it in.

But she's immortalized now, forever a meme. Hopefully a cameo too.

So what happens to us now, in this world without memes?

>>53098593
Succubed needs to be a recurring NPC or riot

>>53098610
A new meme will rise. Greater and more terrible than before.

>>53098496
Well that's 2 talents which is kind of a huge investment when a wand is only 750g

>>53098593
I want to spend a night sleeping in the comfy bed ooze, letting my worries and stress of being an overlord melt away

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>>53098593
Honestly, I bet a lot of the players wouldn't mind it if their apps got cameo appearances, especially in a kingdom-building game

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Can Psychic's do anything interesting?
What are the pros and cons from some actual play?

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What classes from Pathfinder or 3pp would you try to import into starfinder?

Why is necromancy such a strong school? Is it supposed to be balanced around the fact that most of the spells are evil?

>>53098593
inb4 she's a generic enemy

>>53098653
I just hope Sleep PMs me first. I've got a few ideas in mind for how my character would interact with others.

Nonsexually of course.

>>53098619
I worry that may not be a future we wish to see, for a meme without sires is an abomination in the eyes of gods and men.

>>53098690
None, honestly. I feel the selection they have now is not only sufficient, it's downright rich.

I haven't been this excited for a Paizo release since Inner Sea Races.

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>>53098729

Understood, I'm just imagining the possibilities with various sci-fantasy settings that can be used as inspriation with starfinder. While I hope the options are a bit more tempered then they were in pathfinder (i.e. avoiding a shit load of bloat) I just want enough to have decent level of diversity. Besides, where else am I going to play a K-pop assassin that can summon sparkly wolves to kill my enemies (and then space tweet the kills to all my fans)

Is there a way to make the animal companion I get from the from the Green Magic discipline dumber?

>>53098797
>e Green Magic discipline
I meant Green Magic Hedgewitch Tradition. Is there a way to permanently lower it's Int score?

>>53098797
Why would you want that?

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>>53098821
I don't like the idea of Sapient animals. I'm going for more of a "wild beast tamer" feel and having my animal be almost as smart as a dumb person doesn't sit right with the flavor I want.

>>53098579
maybe consider that you didn't get in because of who you are, which is obvious from the way you post by the way

>>53098690
Occultist honestly

>>53098850
Feeblemind is the spell you need, I think. Then you can cast Awaken and get a book thrown at you

>>53098853
I've considered that, and honestly I don't blame him. That would have turned the salt meter up to eleven.

>>53098690
We are going to have to start to have separate Starfinder threads...

>>53098869
Well I'm gonna be a hedge-witch so I don't want to assume Vanician spell-casting service is available.

>>53098850
I mean, it still can't speak. It's still classified as an animal. Mechanically it is only advantageous to let it have access to more feats than normal and nothing is stopping you from telling your DM it's going to act like a normal animal. Your dumb animal just so happens to be the top 1% of its species in terms of intelligence.

>>53098781

Tien-Min Expert (they're the assassin class) in commissioned armor with drones outfitted with holograms, with a communications device on her hip!

>>53098902

Are we? I thought the idea was not to seperate Starfinder and Pathfinder general? Perhaps this should become a topic point unless it was already decided.

>>53098904
>is stopping you from telling your DM it's going to act like a normal animal.
Is that up for the player to decide though?

>>53098931
It's your animal companion, so I would assume so unless the DM is going to insist on fucking around with it? If it bothers you that much just ask. Worst case the DM sees you straight up asking to nerf your animal companion and okays it.

Is there a weapon enhancement that lets you deal sonic damage on hit in the same way that Flaming deals fire damage?

>>53098690
I am thinking likely samurai or monks. Maybe wizards because I have no sense of right or wrong.

>>53098902
It was discussed a few times. Mostly decided that if there were two path-star threads then both would end up dead because of splitting the base that uses them, and they were similar enough that they could be placed in the same thread.

Does everything go to shit if you just let classes trade spell lists? Or even let them switch to psionics with appropriate progression and use a particular class's power list?

>>53099002
The main reason there is not, is because out of all the monsters that are resistant to fire or ice or electricity (about 380 each with 280 for lightning) only about 60 monsters are resistant to sonic. Your best bet are the sonic damage to crit weapons and getting a katana or rapier with 15-20 crut.

>>53099036
Generally yes. That is why multiclassing exists, and why Mystic theurge if done right is a very powerful single caster.

>>53098661
Psychic mainly have already existing spells under a different name with slightly different effects and some psychic specific occult related spells which vary in usefulness depending on how much effort the GM has put into thinking about the occult classes. Their main pro and con is the fact that they are unique spellcasters, meaning psychic is a type of casting on it's own and has a set of items specifically tailored to psychics. This of course means that items that cater to divine and arcane casters are going to be useless and probably more common. Their classes however have interesting mechanics, such as the implements of the occultist and the pseudo summoner, spiritualist. Their only 9th level caster is however weaker than any other.

Can I cast raise dead on my enemies to kill them again and get their XP?

How important is 20 starting str for a martials like paladins, bloodragers and warders?

Is it considered to be a waste of a +2 str race if I take a sub 20 starting str?

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>>53099009
>I am thinking likely samurai or monks.

>mfw Street Samurai in Starfinder

>>53099067
Resurrection is consensual, they can refuse specially when its the guy that just killed them.

Even if you manage to trick them into accepting, it can be considered a 0 exp event when the odds are massively pitched against them.

>>53099084

20 starting STR is not important at all. I think you can start with 16 and be fine.

>>53099111
If you're rocking a Str build, 18 is probably your best starting point. You get that extra point of damage on a two-handed attack, you have great carry capacity, and you can basically not have to worry about increasing it if you've got any other stats that need a boost.

>>53099067
No. Technically if you don't control them, they might be considered enemies, but no DM would let you do that. It would be similar to lighting a forest on fire and expecting the animal's XP.

>>53099084
Not too important for paladins. Heck, for a paladin you can easily get away with 16 str as long as the rest goes into your charisma. (Because high charisma is good)

>>53099090
Yes. Or monasteries of ancient styles that survived by moving to another planet, or in a shitty dojo in the hongkong style citystation.
(Or samurai jack back from the past)

>>53099062
>Their only 9th level caster is however weaker than any other.
The physic class is specifically what I am talking about. I've already tired a handful of the others.
IYO physic is not worth so much?

>>53099132
How about 3/4 BAB classes? I heard that the BAB difference is sometimes so bad that they can't afford to use power attack.

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>>53099090

>Not donning your family power armor passed down from your grandfather
>Not tending to the family sword after receiving the implants needed to channel your ki into it's high tech blade
>Not riding into battle on a vat grown warhorse with augmented limbs and built in armor

Shamful dispray!

>>53099159
It really is not that bad. if you are worried about hitting, just wait until about 5th level when the difference is neglegable

>>53098431
I hope youre right.

if you got in please throw me a line.

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>>53099161
I want to be a fat, jovial Android Cook, traveling the cosmos in the search of that greatest of worlds.

Flavortown.

>>53099161
True that is cool and would be awesome. Though honestly I like the feeling of a lowtech samurai or monk still keeping up with a high tech era simply through skill or ki trickery

>>53099156
Depends on the party. They are still 9th level casters with some unique spells and slightly more limited spell selection than wizards.

In other words: they are worth it unless your party already has two wizards, a druid and all of them have cleric cohorts.

>>53099159
It can be, it can be. But if you're stacking up enough bonuses apart from just your BAB, you're good.

And it's not even when power attacking, it's mostly just when two-handing. Power attacking *while* two-handing should be something you do when you're sure you can hit, and if it doesn't work just drop the power attack for a few rounds.

>>53099036
In base PF, I would say that the sorcerer/wizard list is the main one that is actually held to be more powerful, by intended design. You can tell that most other classes are given weightier class features besides their spells - even Witch.

It seems vaguely possible that Cleric list is considered weaker too even relative to Druid/Shaman. Both Cleric and Oracle are meant to supplement their list with domains/mysteries and get a bunch of good features from their domain/mystery.

>>53099057
Anon isn't talking about combined lists, just substituted ones.

>>53099161
>>53099197

Having a monomolecular vibro-blade doesn't mean you can skimp on the sword lessons, and mag-sealed body armor composed out of a mithral/adamantine alloy is still going to be as mobile as your old suit of lacquered armor.

Bushido and the Way of the Samurai are timeless - the coat and the engine might change, but the spirit remains.

>>53099062
What types of spells does the Psychic list generally gear itself towards? I would probably have expected something like an Enchantment specialist, but after looking at it, it just seems a little incoherent.

>>53099194

But anon, I thought androids just need some junkies to eat and some oil to drink.

Wacha wacha wachacha.

https://youtu.be/Q16Kx9-Ys2s

>>53099057
Oh, well there goes a Bard idea

>>53099253
That is very true. Honestly its giving me ideas for more space samurai/monk characters and types. Like actual levels of old style vs new tech. Ancient magic swords and modern blades infused with the spirits of your forebears.

Styles so good they lasted literally the end of the world, ancient immortal masters, or literally a dragon as your kung fu master.

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>>53099253

That's all fine and good but I'm no Samurai

>>53099305
Bards get a lot of sonic spells base because thats their idea.

>>53099009
>samurai or monks

Did you ever play the Xenosaga series?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLxe2knWI8Q

Their magic comes from ki and nanomachines.

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>>53099311
>Ancient magic swords and modern blades infused with the spirits of your forebears.

>Paladin with ultra-modern tech
>Smite.exe
>Divinity reduced to an unfathomable arrangement of zeroes and ones

>Want to play the stereotypical sneaky thief rogue character
>Group finally starting a new game
>Have to play another Barbarian or our party of bathrobe wearing casters will get run over by goblins
Every day I think about applying to a roll20 game.
Thanks for reading my blog.

>>53099256
In short: they cover the basics, but lack certain utility spells of wizards and go for more offensive and direct spells.

>>53099366
>Want to play the stereotypical sneaky thief rogue character

Good sir, have you considered playing a Slayer? They're a combat-focused rogue with full-BAB, medium armor support, sneak attack, rogue/ranger talents and a unique ability that gives improved To-Hit and Damage.

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>>53099366
Could you do it with a Slayer?

>>53099366
You could always run an Intimidate build with an Earth Breaker.

Sap Adept + Enforcer + Hurtful + Cornugon Smash + Thug archetype + Scout archetype.

You look like a Barbarian, act like one, but still have the capacity to sneak.

>>53099360
Robot paladins running smite.exe
>My faith is programmed to be unshakable
>My honor is in my core code

Samurai and monks in space are style though. Who knew.

>>53099366
Why not go for a full party of 4~5 wizards?

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>>53098961
Wasn't it 2hu who popularized the Conversion OD/ZS?

How can we make shields great again?

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>>53099416

>>53099425
Buff Improved Aegis and Greater Aegis so that both ZS and Sworn Protector feel the drawbacks of not having them.

>>53099425

OD/ZS just trades away too little for too much

OD needs to be CHA based and it's largely fixed.

ZS needs a total overhaul, I'd argue warder should be built with ZS functionality core, as most reach weapons are two handed. And there should be a shielded archetype that focuses on the tower shield and extending its benefits to allies in aegis range.

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>>53099416
>Robot paladins running smite.exe

>My circuitry is copper and gold
>But my nerves are steel

>>53099418
>>53099366
He is right. Full wizard party. Build your own frontline with summons then golems.

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>>53099465
>OD needs to be CHA based and it's largely fixed.

>mfw my dreams of a Charisma-based Warder were this close to being realized

aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>53099366
>>53099489
>>53099366
Better idea: Be a Vivesectionist Alchemist with the Preservationist archetype. Cover ALL your bases.

>>53099360
>>53099416
>>53099484
This sounds like a Warforged Paladin from Eberron.

>>53099465
>OD needs to be CHA based and it's largely fixed.
And now it's worthless.

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>>53099465
>>53099503
>CHA BASED OD

ngnhngnhg

I would jizz if Blessings and Inquisitions didn't suck but NGNHNNH it already feels good.

>>53099556
>it's overpowered as-is
>switching it to Cha makes it worthless

There aren't enough Cha-based initiators desu. Warder already has good Will progression, so it won't hurt it THAT much.

>>53099556
No now its the Paladin it should be.

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>>53099556

>Your big buff holy man is now very, very good looking
>You don't even need to abuse Conversion to get dem social graces

>>53099584
It's overpowered BECAUSE it's Wis based. That's the only reason you'd take it because Wisdom is a better stat than intelligence.
>>53099593
>my charisma is good looks meme
Stop. We've been over this several times.

>>53099615
>Stop. We've been over this several times.
To be fair, most Charisma-heavy characters tend to be easy on the eyes.

One of these days I'm going to make my crispy bacon Paladin. One of these days!

>>53099615
>That's the only reason you'd take it
i take it for liberation blessing
liberation blessing WILL save your life

>>53099615
>it's overpowered BECAUSE it's Wis based

A point that I did not contest, I merely implied that being Cha based wouldn't make it worthless. It would make it a sidegrade at worst.

>>53099584
>There aren't enough Cha-based initiators desu
I mean Cha fags get
>Warlord(best Initiator out of Path of War 1)
>Zealot(Best Initiator out of Path of War E)
>Paladin Archetype
If anything Charisma needs a native 3/4ths bab Initiator and Wisdom needs a native Full BaB Initiator.

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>>53099418
>>53099489
Honestly, an all wizard party is probably the only composition that never suffers from rusty dagger shanktown syndrome.

Everyone takes improved init, reactionary, +4 init familiar at level 1 and 2~3 if not all of them will win initiative, color spray the opposition into submission followed by a pajama shank party.

Ranged threats? EZPZ One wizard casts obscuring mist as they walk into color spray range or better, just cast sleep. Heck, it wont even be that spell intensive since they will likely thin out the enemy numbers during round 0 as the old men of murder focus fire flat footed AC with their heavy crossbows possibly while kiting enemies to death using mount. Undead? Distrupt undead/Burning hands BITCH. Worse comes to worse, one wizard casts Expenditious retreat while the other pops a mist before they book it.

Anything past Color spray/Sleep stage gets fucked when they start getting 3+ rounds of summon monster. BBEG? Maybe for shits and giggles they enervate the fuck out of him then draw knives and shank him to death for old times sake.

>>53099734
>>Take turns enervating him
>>The wizards are a safe distance away
>>The BBEG starts crying
>>The wizards are laughing and draw their daggers
>>Just walk up and start stabbing him with 1d4+0 but he is defenseless.
>>40 rounds into getting shanked with dull knives he finally dies.

Jesus

>>53099721
Also does DSP have a fetish for Wisdom as a stat. Seriously.
>Stalker
>Mystic
>Psychic Armory. Just everything about the Psychic Armory
>Barbarian PoW archetype
>Myrmidon Fighter
>Medic
>Ordained Defender
>Contemplantive Wilder
>Altered Life
And while not DSP, the spell burst savant is Wisdom based despite everything about it screaming it should be Int.
vs
>Warder
>Vigilante Stalker
>Aegis Initiation
>Living Legend Soul Knife
>Harbinger

>>53099734
This reminds me of a doujin, but it used a group of Time Mages to alter the target's perception.

The author is the same one who did "The World of Reversed Gender Roles."

>>53099721
Going by your logic:
>Charisma needs a native 3/4th BAB initiator
The Bard archetype, which is another FUCKING BARD ARCHETYPE THAT TRADES THE ENTIRE VERSATILE PERFORMANCE PROGRESSION FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T SCALE PROPERLY WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP DOING THIS AAAAAAA.

>Wisdom needs a native Full BAB initiator
>Myrmidon, Ambush Hunter, The Soulknife archetype, a bunch of other things I can't be assed to care about

Fuck Zealot and its psionic bullshit. The Paladin archetype is okay but I still am not at all a fan of it, just like how the Monk of the Silver Fist is full on nonsense..

>>53099734
And then the GM is done with wizardry shenanigans and arms all the bad guys with an army of abjuration wizards who prep nothing but dispel magics to counter you and covers the area with dimensional anchors and anti summoning spells.

>>53099839
That will be the ACTUAL BBE encounter. The ACTUAL test to wizardry mastery

>>53099828
>its psionic bullshit.
Psionics is great. Fuck you.

And by Native I meant "not an archetype" of something else. As in it's owns standalone base class.

>>53099839
They convince the abjurers to side with them and tippyverse begins. Because seriously, why are they working for muggles?

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So, Starfinder elves are going the full insular arrogant douche route, and lashunta have been changed from sexual dimorphism to "choosing" subraces.

Any other things we've learned about Pathfinder races in Starfinder? Anything you'd like to see with Pathfinder races in Starfinder?

>>53099861
Psionics is cool, but it's another fucking thing to juggle around on the hot mess that is the zealot.

>>53099870
The pussy game on them muggle bitches be too strong, yo.

>>53099253
https://youtu.be/-FfN65U1OIM

>>53099854
"Let's if you fuckers have managed to finally learn fireball!"

"No, but we have learned how to make cubes!"

Que the bag guy getting crushed under several dozen clockwork boxes


>>53099870
Because he has better diplomacy and Leadership.

>>53099888
Where did you learn that one

>>53099893
Okay. I can kind of see that.
And the more I think about the more I don't think the current fluff of the Zealot fits a Psionic guy. Either they should have changed Zealot fluff or just go full on Crusader with him.

If we're just airing shit out there. I think the Harbinger is the only base class introduced in PoW:E that isn't a hot mess.

>>53099909
>Because he has better diplomacy and Leadership.
maybe the party of wizards can bite the bullet and get a CHA caster in there for this exact purpose?

>>53099888
>Any other things we've learned about Pathfinder races in Starfinder?

I can guarantee Gnomes are going to be 200% tumblr, Halflings will be quirky tradesmen and pioneers, and Dwarves will be Asteroid Fuckers.

Coincidentally, I guarantee Dwarves are going to be the first of the races to prominently feature a male example of their race, because as we both know Paizo hates Dwarves and are perfectly willing to dump the evil Y chromosome on them.

>>53099909
>better diplomacy than the party of wizards, each at like 28 INT minimum, all who have Clever Wordplay for diplomacy
sure thing anon

>>53099927
No, one of them is an Instructor Wizard who gets Int based Leadership.

>>53099927
4 wizards and 1 sorcerer

>>53099912

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4091-EXCLUSIVE-A-Look-At-The-Planet-Castrovel-From-The-Upcoming-Starfinder-RPG#.WQ5FSOUrKM8

>>53099928
>Coincidentally, I guarantee Dwarves are going to be the first of the races to prominently feature a male example of their race
Aren't the Iconic Lashunta and Androids both male?

All PFG games must now feature at least one THICC dragon.

>>53099912
>>53099958

Does this mean Elves are going to be Operators?

>>53099965
Iconic Lashunta is a female, and Iconic Android is non-gendered (probably after a period of time when it was "forced" to "identify" as male, truly horrific.)

You know what I want from Starfinder?
A vehicle-based class.
Kamen Rider, for example. Or the pilot of a small one-man tank.
Essentially, a mount class that isn't shit and uses technological mounts instead of horses.
With a Jury-Rigger/Junker archetype, preferably.
Betcha it won't happen.

>>53099953
Now that sounds like a porno.

"Sorceress, I hope you came prepared for us."

"Oh no, Mr.Wizard, Mr.Wizard, Mr.Wizard and Mr.Wizard. I am not a girl like that. I am more....spontaneous,"

>>53099734
Ridcully: Transmuter
Bursar: Enchanter
Dean: Evoker
Senior wrangler: Conjurer
Chair of indefinite studies: Abjurer
Lecturer in recent runes: Illusionist
Ponder Stibbons: Universalist

>>53100007
That's fucking hilarious, anon.

>>53099983
The Kasatha and Ratfolk look like dudes. Though I don't remember. Altronus sounds like a pretty masculine name and so does Quig

>>53100000

mechs are going to be a thing in the game, just not on release I think

>>53099828
Because Gareth hates versatile performance

>>53099909
Student of philosophy/Clever wordplay?

>>53100031
Mechs are going to be unwieldy trash based on that steampunk crab that DnD has. I want things with wheels or hover jets, damn it.

>>53100025
Ratfolk look like rats.
Kasatha look like kasatha.

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>>53100025

>The only male Iconics are impossible to identify as male

>>53100037
That doesn't actually help with Leadership.

>>53100036
I DON'T UNDERSTAND. EVEN FUCKING PAIZO DOES THIS SHIT. WHY DOES NOBODY REMEMBER THAT VERSATILE PERFORMANCE FUCKING SCAAAAAAAAALEEEES

>>53100044
>I want things with wheels or hover jets, damn it.

I'm 90% sure vehicles will be in the game.

>>53100046
>The Kasatha and Ratfolk look like dudes.
If they were female, they'd have tits.

'Cause at the end of the day Paizo knows what sells.

>>53100050
Scales how? As in being able to diver all the points from the other skills into other skills after getting versatile performance? As in being a skill as any? As in advanced versatile performance getting you weapon training, weapon focus and what not?

>>53100047
If its just a matter of leadership then the cohort will have an inferior caster level none of the followers will even have access to dispel magic.

>>53100057
>If they were female, they'd have tits.
We've seen female Kasatha and they look exactly the same as male Kasatha.

>>53100057
>'Cause at the end of the day Paizo knows what sells.

Anon, you're mistaking Paizo's intentions with something else, these people are genuinely earnest in making Starfinder a more progressive, diverse and "inclusive" setting compared to Pathfinder. They aren't doing it because they know nerds like you get off to fat Iconic tits.

Of which there are none among the Iconics, if I need to remind you. Everyone's got flat chests and slender hips.

>>53099974
Fuck off sweagle

>>53100109
Eh, I'd bang the Lashunta chick and totally not space Ameiko.

>>53100071
As in "you get more than one as you level" and "you can trade the additional ones out for other shit". A lot of archetypes trade out EVERYTHING for something JUST at 2nd level. Sometimes the trades are at least acceptable (Archaeologist gives 1/2 level bonus to two skills), other times it's absolute BULLSHIT. Like how Dervish Dancer trades out ALL VERSATILE PERFORMANCES for... The ability to use half of the Dance versatile performance?

>>53100127
Anon... The Lashunta and Ameiko are PROBABLY an item, Ameiko is canonically gay.

I mean, imagine the uproar that would happen on the forums if it was revealed one of the women in their breakfast club cast enjoyed penis.

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>>53100141

Not the anon you're responding to but at the end of the day I don't intend to use the main setting unless it's a pre-req to net potential players.

That said, even being particularly liberal as I am I wouldn't go out of my way to ham up the super gay communist angle that is being pushed unless it leads to lewds

>>53100134
and now that I actually look, I realize it wasn't nearly as many archetypes as I thought with this problem. Only the ones I actually cared about

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I just want some setting news about Starfinder that doesn't feel like a tumblr blog.

>>53097907
For the same reason we started letting a page 6 new thread slide as if it was nothing. The inevitable decay of /pfg/'s moral fiber leading toward the eventual loss of all decorum.

>>53100280
just make up your own setting
do you really think paizo's wont be shit?

>>53100308
It took five years for us to say that with Golarion, and we're already saying it for Starfinder before it's released?

>>53100285
at least it's not a fucking anime thread with a topic about e-celebs

>>53100319
golarion didn't start out like total shit, it was a gradual decline

you can see that same decline in the APs as well
rotrl has incestuous cannibalistic rape-ogres right at the start
iomedae's toot-toot circus is the most PG13 crusade possible, with gender identity as a key plot point for one of the chapters

>>53100319
>It took five years for us to say that with Golarion, and we're already saying it for Starfinder before it's released?

Golarion started off good and gradually became shit because the writers and developers drank deep of the rainbow-colored kool-aid that WotC has so expertly perfected.

They're still drinking that kool-aid when they developed Starfinder.

>>53098593
Now you can snooze, sweet ruse ooze.

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>>53097695
Hey /pfg/.

One of my friends convinced me to join a Pathfinder campaign, and, being an idiot, I made an explicitly noncombat character who promptly was killed by a giant worm made of shit.

Once I realized what kind of campaign this was going to be, I convinced my GM to let me play as a 10 year old commoner with a watch that let me turn into any one of 10 aliens.

Not being familiar with Pathfinder, I've worked out how to handle all of the aliens except Fourarms and Upgrade. I'm thinking a grappling focused fighter for the former, but I'm not sure how to do that because the grappling rules terrify me.

I'm open to suggestions for either. Help? I'm using these racial templates with some light editing http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?199298-Ben-10-races-anyone

>>53099036
>>53099226
If you were to go this route, I'd set up certain equivalencies between the fullcasters that enable them to trade their own list for another. Honestly I don't see cleric/oracle as being given significantly better handicap features than druids or shamans - both have excellent featuresets.

>Rank 1
sorc/wizard/arcanist
summoner

>Rank 2
psychic, witch
hunter
bloodrager

>Rank 3
shaman, druid, cleric
magus, inquisitor
paladin, ranger

Trading yourself down one rank could be worth a BAB/HD progression improvement imo. I'd hesitate to let the other direction fly at all.

Same with going from a 1-4 list to a list that extends out of that reach. Putting the Witch list on a Bloodrager doesn't do anything bad, but allowing the reverse could put you in charge of bullshit like fast-progression Summoner casting (followed by dead levels), so those kinds of trades should only go the one direction.

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>>53100319

Well, I'm interested in a few things. The galaxy-wide amnesia that made the elves super paranoid and dickish seems worth investigating, and regardless of the whole "getting high on independent choice" deal the shirren have going on, I really want to know more about them-particularly what happened/is happening with the predatory hivemind they used to be part of.

>>53100419
Its still there remember, the shirrin come from a distant star. Likely running away

>>53100431
Wait, Starfinder is all in one system?

>>53100419
Shirren used to be part of the Swarm, which Paizo has stated as being the number one big threat to the setting.

>>53100443
At the start its based just in the golarion system, with some adventures going out to a different star and then returning.

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>>53100419
>The galaxy-wide amnesia that made the elves super paranoid and dickish seems worth investigating

To be fair, the Elves they discussed were the Elves of Castroval, which have always been suggested as insular, dickish and exceptionally proud.

>>53100007
Underrated post.

>>53100454
>which Paizo has stated as being the number one big threat to the setting.

I thought that was the Dominion of the Black.

>Alt+F4 "Overlewd"
>No results on page.

I'm proud of you guys.

>>53096240
AND GOD SAID

"MAY ALL /pfg/ GAMES HAVE THICC DRAGON GIRLS HENCEFORTH"

>>53100507
Team 2 doesn't have any dragongirls, anon.

Oh.

Oh no.

What are you planning to do to Kyron, you fiend?

>>53100507
Amen!

t. Romulus

So which will come out first: Starfinder, or SoM? Because if they fix PF, we won't need SoM anymore.

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>>53100456

And somehow, the great big magic mind-wipe made them WORSE.

Raises a few questions, if you ask me.

>>53100499
I got out my little bit of salt, now I'm just keeping an ear out for future games.

>>53100470
Looks like I was wrong, recalled someone on their boards arguing for a more classical bug race and being told the swarm is the main antagonist. But it wasn't a dev, just someone giving paizo too much money.

>>53100346
>with gender identity as a key plot point
A throw away backstory line for a minor character is a "key plot point".

Okay.

>>53100405
Or you could save yourself a lot of trouble and just use Spheres of Power and play an Alteration sphere specialist.

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>>53100470
>>53100615

Well, it's space. The odds of there being just one group/entity trying to do unspeakable things to all of existence are pretty slim.

>>53100507

Who's the thicc dragon girl in Blingmaker?

>>53100681

He's highlighting that as an example of how out of touch a campaign about crusades is. He could've also talked about how the only white male character is a Literal Privileged Mansplainer, or the second couple you meet is also a homosexual couple with a black man and his drug-addicted fuckbuddy.

And hey, how about those background traits, remember those? Yeah no fuck you, we're blitzing through them one after another in Book 3.

How much AC is good at level 11 for a caster?

>>53100808
None, AC is a joke.

>>53100808
your main defense won't be AC. It will be % misschance and mirror images. Stuff like that.

>>53100681
>Anevia
>Minor Character

Her and Irabeth are so important the campaign discusses at the start of every book what they should be doing and how their plot should be advancing.

>>53100806
> how out of touch a campaign about crusades
I don't really see how any of that is out of character for a crusade against literal demons and forces of evil in a fantasy world as opposed to a political response to years of raiding and in one instance just regular political fuckery.

>>53098378
whoops sorry i left for a good while

eh, just a few sessions in - we're level 6, started at 3, and we've been playing for about two months now

i wouldn't mind rolling a new character but he's tied to the story now and if it weren't for that i would've left the campaign already

Is there a monster spreadsheet I can use for averaging data?

>>53100499
>>53100499
Its hard to be salty about not making it when there were so many great apps, and sleep has been very nice about the whole thing. Plus I think a few of the better, and thus more betrayed, apps are still holding onto hope that sleep will increase the party size and theyll still get in so the otherwise saltiest are subdued.

I really hope this is a learning experience for everyone, the silence seems to indicate it was. Why spend hours and real heart writting a compelling and living character when it all just comes down to DM preference? I'm not even talking cabal, but I mean look at what got accepted. McWaifus, fetish bait, and a token serious person with a dick per team. And nearly all from the first half of the first page, almost half from the very first 3 posts. Sleep knew what he wanted (it was after all called overLEWD) and he read the apps as they were posted and as a human became attached to the ones that were around the longest. Yet you still had people wasting hours out of their day writing characters, begging for reviews, carefully considering their builds, and editing every day. Like they think its a competition, not just a game. People need to chill it, you arent writing for a novel. Poor sleep, must feel guilty as fuck for just doing what he wanted rather than getting shamed into changing his own campaign idea.

And no Im not just salty, because I didnt app, I just watched because Im a sucker for memes.

>>53100806
>And hey, how about those background traits, remember those?
You mean those minor character traits that are basically just excuses to put you in the campaign? I'm pretty sure they blitzed by them because if they went any harder into them they would be going full on Dragon Lance.

>>53100831
Spheres Mage, I don't get Mirror Image.

>>53100915
>Why spend hours and real heart writting a compelling and living character when it all just comes down to DM preference?
You think people would have learned this the first 3 fucking times.

>>53100927
Yes you do. Look at the time Sphere and Illusion Sphere.

>>53100927
I am sorry to hear about that

>>53099161
>Not having a mech for your vat-grown warhorse to pilot so your own mech can ride a horse

>>53100915
Surprised Cijiska got in. I remember a good early response, and then a lot of harsh reviews from anons.

I recall something similar with the player's other characters.

>>53100939
I mean, I made a character for a campaign here. It didn't even have much in it. I was just active, chatted a lot to people. It was obvious to tell who I was because of my writing/speaking style.

My backstory was OK, not great, but because I was open and active and a good person, I got in.

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>>53100915
>Yet you still had people wasting hours out of their day writing characters, begging for reviews, carefully considering their builds, and editing every day.

I did it because I do that shit anyway, so I might as well submit it to a game in hopes of getting reviewed so I can refine further character ideas and builds. I expected jack shit and instead I had a good time, even if it was brief.

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>>53099983
I'm okay with "non-gender" androids, but not when they're fucking built to look like fucking humanoids of one or the other.

Like, fuck, by all means do it, but at least make it something that's "asexual" because it would not could not ever care.

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>>53100971

>>53101025
I feel like Paizo androids are an all around fucking cop out from giving us a legit fucking construct race.

>>53101056
They always were and always will be.

>>53101025
The Android used to have an assigned gender when it shed said gender upon earning (or securing) their freedom. Based on the build, the Android used to be male.

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>>53101056
>>53101069

Who knows? Maybe we'll get one in a supplement, or in the preview release.

>>53101085
where did this info come from?

>>53101056
>>53101069
>>53101090
If it comes down to it, convert the Ancient Robotics and Warforged from 3.5

>>53100915

I can't really make heads or tails of the picks, some of the apps were great, others really sucked.

>>53100957
But the Time Sphere is fucking garbage and a complete waste of precious talents.

>>53101110
Eh, I've already got my own robots I've been working on on-and-off.

I need to finish 'em up.

>>53100869

Well you don't have to see what makes it out of character, because if I recall WotR was the first serious flop from Paizo and an AP universally reviled around these parts. Seems like you're the only one not seeing it.

>>53101056
I mean, androids as a concept aren't -bad-. But the pathfinder version, yeah. They're pretty much humans, but with glowing eyes/tattoos and maybe an unnatural skin tone. Since they're technically robots, there'd better be body modification.
>While androids were designed to exhibit the same dimorphic traits of humans, some androids reject those traits and ignore gender out of rebellious disregard for their former oppressors

>>53101095
Which part? Androids were a slave race constructed by an evil megacorporation until they were emancipated. The Iconic Android is identified as non-gender, yet from the Android's build it appears it used to be male.

Hence, the Android used to be a man, and hated it so much he got rid of his penis the moment he had the chance.

>>53101127
make sure to mark the difference between healing as a robot and healing as a lifeform. Constructs can't be healed with positive energy, but instead with repair spells and craft skills. (robots always need their hardness stat and potions of repair.)
since you know how they are destroyed if they hit 0 hp.

>>53101137
>niversally reviled around these parts
>WotR
>flop
Do you have anything to back that up.

>>53101157
>There'd better be body modification

Oh, there will be reconstructive surgeries listed prominently in the campaign book.

>>53101161
Well, I mean where did it say the android is non-gendered? Because I did not think the android iconic was shown off yet.

>>53101189
Will there be a way to get pheromones to subtly spray out of you to influence people into doing what you want? Or am I stuck with wearing cleavage armour and pumping points into Diplomacy as well as using Suggestion?

>>53101176
I've been here for years, and the only time WotR ever comes up is to describe how godawful it is. I have also never seen a DM or player talk positively about it in my circles unless it's about how it was a huge waste or they never played it before.

>>53101203

It's 8716 AR, shitlord. Cleavage armor confers no advantage because that implies people are titillated by a woman's choice.

>>53101206
I know it's unpopular here but all the complaints about are
>basically just /pol bullshit
>Trumpets
And that's it. Everywhere else it just seems like a regular ass AP to people.

>>53101164
Well, as part of 'doing my best to get them to PC-suitability but still feel like robots', they don't have any construct traits except the ones I've given them.

It's normal stuff, immunity to poison, disease, all that stuff. But they have Con scores, and have a 'not dead but still disabled' portion of their health like everyone else.

They need repairs rather than normal healing though, yeah. Positive and Negative ain't doing a thing to 'em.

>>53101231
You're beginning to see why the stuff they included was such a godawful idea, yeah?

>>53101232
brutal. Not having con was one of the better parts of being a robot

>>53101206
That's because WotR is popular and people like it. It's got some godawful parts, but it's a big event that takes place in a great place for adventuring.

If you want some god-awful paths, look at games like Carrion Crown or Serpent's Skull that fail on fundamental levels. Carrion's Crown starts off blowing it's load fighting ghosts the players can't possibly be ready for then evolves into boring undead types that don't need entire APs devoted to them, and Serpent' sSkull is just dreadfully boring for most of the books.

>>53101240
Not really. It's just a bunch of people screeching about muh gays and muh blacks. Nothing new and even Paizo admits the Iomadae encounter was a little funky.

>>53098088
Feats in 5e are strong but none of them feel exciting Legend has done feats the best out of any d20 system

>>53101157
>gender
Of all the ways they could make themselves different, but NOOOO, it has to be GENDER.

Fucking hell.
Come on, what about Quads?
What about shoulder cannons? Jump-Jets?
What about "fuck looking like you corporate assholes, I'm sticking my brain in this goddamn torpedo bomber and building drones to fondle and maintain me and my insides at my whim.
What about "Imma fucking crane now. Badass"

Nooooo. Obviously it's all about getting rid of the evil penis that shoots seeds and rapes by merely being seen.

>>53101226
B-but anon, I want to wear cleavage armour to show off my personality and how nice I am!

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>>53101157
I don't know if it's the blatant misandry or the complete and utter lack of imagination that annoys me more in this.

>>53101260
Well they still need a manner to measure their variable levels of toughness.

Undead lacking Con makes sense, because they use Charisma instead. Their durability is derived from that.

But where does a construct's durability come from? Are they meant to all have the same resilience based on size, regardless of if they're a killdroid or a butler? (Excluding class HD)

Consider the fact that being a robot means you'd be immune to a great number of things that would actually damage your Constitution as well.

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>>53101310

Cleavage armor is so last season. Cleavage weaponry is where it's at now, anon.

>>53101231
>People complaining about poorly written cringe tier pandering
>/pol/ bullshit
Typical virtue flagging nu-anon

>>53101339
I like my scum how I like my food.

Free.

>>53101341
Except the complaints aren't about them being poorly written it's about them existing at all. People just use the "but some random tranny on the internet ALSO said it was bad".

It's bad, but most people hate on it for the wrong fucking reason.

>>53100984
That was pre-edit Cijiska. People seemed to have failed to notice that all 8 accepted apps had extensive edits done to them.

>>53101302
They basically compete with elves in those aspects. You're right, though. They could have chosen anything else.

>>53101324
It's a 50/50 mix.

>>53101335
The way ancient robotics and some constructs from pathfinder, namely the ones from distant worlds measure it through the INT score, which makes plenty of sense to me.

>>53101364
Nah, you're just virtue flagging.

>>53100957
Doing Protection sphere's job...

>>53101381
It makes a measure of sense, but only if the 'bot is maintaining and upgrading themselves.

Plus, if you go with that explanation, why would increases instantly give them more HP?

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>>53100915
>inb4 someone makes a campaign for the rejected apps
>Overscrewed

>>53101270
How many straight people were even in that campaign though.

>>53097753
Tiger. There's lots of tiger/dragon matchups and even personality clashes in some Asian cultural tales, you can use those to get some ideas.

>>53101364
Anon, the joke here is that you're trying to defend something that, even if you were able to successfully convince these people that the rampant virtue signaling and SocJus in the campaign was both tasteful and minor, the campaign STILL sucks ass.

Why is that, by the way? Are you noticing a connection between people complaining about SJWs and the campaign sucking absolute horsedick for other reasons?

So I've never played a mid-high level campaign, when it comes to saves what should I be aiming for?

I imagine Will is the most important.

>>53101422
In 3.5 it was a measure of how well their systems could keep up with what was going on. Because they were 'ancient robotics' so it was like clearing their old wires or making their subsystems transmit better, along with upgrading.

>>53101501
>the campaign STILL sucks ass.
You still haven't really proved this.

>>53101506
will and reflex are most important, fortitude to a lesser extent but still good.

>>53101501
Doesn't the entire campaign involve you playing second fiddle to some other team of fuckboys?

>>53101501
>even if you were able to successfully convince these people that the rampant virtue signaling and SocJus in the campaign was both tasteful and minor,
I never said for a moment it was tasteful. I'm suggesting that the people who are complain ALSO have an agenda and that agenda isn't "wants a fun AP".

>>53101517
Well it makes more sense than other options, I guess!

Basically, long and short of it is, I don't feel like 'Constitution' needs to be biological. Undead are held upright entirely by magic, but robots are much more analogous to biological life.

>>53101537
No that's just the fifth book

>>53101537
This is an ancient piece of misinformation.

No, you do not play second fiddle to another group of adventurers in Wrath of the Righteous. By the end of the first book you're holding audiences with the Queen herself, and by the end of the second book you are Heroes of the Crusade, and by the end of the third book you're practically living legends.

The only time you play second fiddle to another group of adventurers is when, while the party is busy rescuing the Herald of Iomedae from self-imposed imprisonment, a gang of adventurers sneak into the Big Bad's castle and steals the Codex, the single most important item in Wrath of the Righteous. This might seem like bullshit until you understand the second team is never mentioned, is never given praise, and explicitly gives the Codex to the Crusade so the party (as in, you) can use it.

Wrath of the Righteous is the biggest masturbatory power-fantasy AP in the history of APs. None of the other APs come close to fondling the PC's balls and moaning how they're the best thing since sliced bread.

>>53101566
Generally constitution means biology though. Thats why robots don't have constitution, and why effects that touch con is based on life-signs. For example, robots aren't affected by vacuum because it affects con. Undead are immune to it too because it affects con. If they have con, they take cold damage.

>>53101540
And you're saying that the reason the AP was written the way it was written and featured characters was because the writers wanted their consumers to "enjoy a fun AP"?

These people really need to pull their heads out their asses if they think having some mtf transgender lesbian and the butch ftm partner sell an iconic sword just so they can afford magical gender reassignment surgery makes for a compelling plot. And I literally hope they don't honestly think that it isnt cringe worthy in the least when every single npc in the chapter HAS to comment how brave, noble and selfless this sacrifice is like oprah was playing testimonials on how moving the event was.

>>53101566
>'Constitution' needs to be biological. Undead are held upright entirely by magic,
There are Zombies that are created by extraordinary(non-magical) means actually.

This is something me and my table is confused about. Why are people like always upset about the inclusion of gay characters in the APs? I've played through quite a few and it's not like they're shoving it in your face.

>>53101668

Anon, the AP is incredibly front-loaded with the heavy-handed bullshit, you've got the aforementioned lesbian trans couple in Book 1 alongside a lame blind Elf and a fat white privileged nobleman who is LITERALLY described as "mansplaining" to anyone who dares offer an opinion he believes is wrong, followed by all those delightfully diverse and inclusive rebel groups that lead you into Book 2, which introduces you to the handsome gay black man who needs the party's help to fix his white twink lover's addiction habit.

It's really off-putting to a whole lot of people, but the moment you break out of Book 2 the writers grab the PCs and start jerking them off in the most saccharine way possible, starting with unveiling their epic backstories in Book 3 and making them the BIGGEST HUGEST DEAL OH MY GOSH YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST HOLY SHIT WE ARE NOT WORTHY OF YOUR GREATNESS that is the rest of the AP.

That's the weird thing about Wrath of the Righteous, anon. The worst parts of the AP are supposedly in the first two books, and everything after that is a 4 book long power fantasy custom-built to stroke your ego.

>>53101740
I've only HEARD about them, but the ORIGINAL complaints are usually something like "these characters are very poorly written pandering that makes actual gay people cringe". It's been twisted so much from that point on that I just kind of tune it out, since most GMs worth their salt skip over or change that part of the NPCs to be less obnoxious anyway.

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My players just befriended a juvenile Copper Dragon notorious for bad puns whenever the conversation lulls or starts to dragon for too long. What are some dragon-themed good bad jokes I can throw at them?

>>53101772
I don't want to dragon this conversation too long because these puns are so bad they'll rust copper like my dick crusts your moms pooper.

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>>53101753
At least until someone shows up...

What are some good undead-like playable races? being a skeleton is hard

>>53101763
It's honestly not even that obnoxious. They're ridiculously fucking minor. Most of the NPC shit is just subquest tier bullshit you do on the way to wrecking demon shit.

The only time it's an issue is if you're a /pol/ack who starts reeing about muh diversity the moment they see brown or smell some gay.

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>>53101793
You've really gotten a fang of the tail-end of humor, anon

>>53101815
>who starts reeing about muh diversity the moment they see brown or smell some gay.

That's all you can see or smell in Book 1 and Book 2, anon.

>>53101819

>Some people think I'm small for a dragon, but I'm perfectly to scale

>>53101798
dhampir are part undead. Usually stillbirths that lived somehow, or their dad was a vampire, or they were in the womb when their mom became a vampire.

But, for the most part you can ask to be a skeletal champion. Its the best part about being a skeleton, while being able to learn and gain new class levels.

You can also become a lich or a deathknight stuff like that.

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>>53100564
What made /pfg/ turn on SoM and hate it all of a sudden?

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>>53101828
Not really. Unless you're so fucking opposed to existence of blacks in your fantasy setting that's all you can see from the loads of demons, tieflings, Templars, and man eating insect swarms.

At that point it's a personal issue.

>>53101622
Don't forget that you are more or less FORCED to rescue that guy, too. you get kidnapped by the goddess, interrogated like you'd belonged in a 4chan party-van, and whether or not she likes your answers (if she thinks you're not ready she'll toss you down there with no help at all and possibly debuffed) you're telefragged to the lower planes to do the job.

Meanwhile the other group obtains the big macguffin and only not written about because their glory was not in becoming the heroes, but in turning your own party into chumps who got too distracted to save the fucking world.

>>53101626
Doesn't have to. Constitution could easily represent resilience, redunant subsystems, autorepair and general material composition.

>>53101848
Near as I can tell, it was more of a gradual decline, based largely off like one or two devs having a bad attitude.

The system itself seems pretty okay, though it has little utility for people who want something more than just "here's a better way to punch dudes".

Wait, so if WotR is cringy as fuck then what does that make HV where the party is supposed to play evil fucks?

>>53101912
The best AP that can do know wrong because /pfg/ is contrarion as fuck and Cheliax is a good satanic Empire that dindu nuffin.

>>53101912
almost amusingly petty and pathetic

>>53101912
A really stupid way to show how evil you are? I'd expect Paizo would just have you being generically oppressive, or else just fighting a parade of nominally-LG enemies who act exactly like CE enemies in any other AP.

>>53101772

>I'm very good with my talons. You might say it's a talon-t of mine.

>>53101912
Poorly made.

>>53101848
It didn't really seem to solve any of the big problems with PoW, it just did the same shit a different way. While simultaneously being more boring to use.

>>53101896
Thats essentially what they said for adroids. Since they are synthetic humanoids and most of them is made up of synthetic blood and flesh, save for the few select metallic parts, nanites, and the metallic circuitry on their skin. That is why they are counted as 'partially constructed' because of their con score. But yeah, I suppose it could mean that. If of course you leave them with their immunities to vacuum, disease, and effects that are meant to bother living things besides rust effects and the like.

>>53101931
>>53101925
>>53101924
Shouldnt it be the opposite end of the group they're supporting? I bet it involves tons of nigger crushing and queer bashing.

>>53101740
Because usually them being gay is there just so that they are gay rather than have an actual impact on the story. Worst offenders are characters who are pointed out to be gay just so that they would be gay. In Reign of Winter I can think of two ways of doing this without being completely obnoxious, despite one of them reeking of JJ. First being a cleric who want you to rescue her gay lover, which could've been replaced with literally anything and the character doesn't go out of their way to point out that her breath smells of tuna for a reason. The other one is a transgender character who after spending time in the literal temple of femininity was more comfortable with a vagina than a donger, so he became a woman. Pointless really, but in tune with the theme still.

Biggest offender that comes to mind is the human iconic of Starfinder who is gay only because JJ can't into straight women apparently.

After some time this stewed within anons and with tumblr and militant SJW's existing this came out to some of them as "Everything is gay, only gay in Paizo, Paizo only pander" which, while true especially with Starfinder it seems, is an exaggerating the amount of pandering and the lack of straight people in the APs, especially since Paizo apparently has the stand point of "unless noted they have no sexuality/GM discretion" which is upheld most of the time, unless JJ or any other big boy is floating behind the writer or is writing themselves.

Funnily enough despite being very much like a page taken straight from tumblr, from what I've read Crystal Frasier seems to make an effort to not tumblr in the books she writes. Might be wrong, probably am, but I am just going to wait for somebody to correct me.

>>53101908
>The system itself seems pretty okay, though it has little utility for people who want something more than just "here's a better way to punch dudes".

Man I called this shit when the first playtests went up and everybody acted like I pissed in their cheerios.

>>53101875
>Meanwhile the other group obtains the big macguffin and only not written about because their glory was not in becoming the heroes, but in turning your own party into chumps who got too distracted to save the fucking world.

What the fuck are you suggesting here, that the Party somehow loses all relevance or even glory because some random asswipes sneak into a castle and steal the McGuffin AND THEN GIVE IT TO THE PARTY? Is this the same Party that single-handedly turned the Crusade from an abysmal failure to a resounding success, held court with Nocticula herself, and later kills a Demon Lord on his own turf (a major Demon Lord, at that.)

This is like a star athlete complaining about their #1 fan giving them the gold medal they won just the other day, because they know you've been working very hard and they really want to see you succeed.

THEY ARE LITERALLY DOING THE WORK FOR YOU BECAUSE THEY THINK YOUR TIME IS BETTER SPENT ELSEWHERE, LIKE SAVING GODS.

>>53101961
Not really. Paizo doesn't have the balls they did back when they wrote Hook Mountain Massacre.

>>53101978
>Biggest offender that comes to mind is the human iconic of Starfinder who is gay only because JJ can't into straight women apparently.

Didn't Ameiko have a human male lover?

>>53101961
no see that would have been promoting oppression so they couldn't do that.

now go kick a puppy.

>>53101688
How's that work?

>>53101626
Not always though. Heck, Elementals have constitution, and they're just blobs of elemental mojo.

>>53101961
>>53102007

Hell's Vengeance is less concerned with showing how evil the party is and more concerned with the party being a group of agents loyal to Queen and Empire, stamping out the Glorious Reclamation where they can.

>>53102001
Yes.
And she's (like all Jade Regent significant NPCs) explicitly noted as being romanceable by either men or women just so you're not automatically barring your PCs from hooking up with her.

>>53102013
A disease spread by a monster known as an "Akata" they hide out on asteroids and occasionally fall to Golarion. Their bite fives people void death.
>Disease (Ex) Void Death: Bite—injury; save Fort DC 12; onset 1 hour; frequency 1/day; effect 1d2 Dex and 1d2 Con damage; an infected creature who dies rises as a void zombie 2d4 hours later (see below); cure 2 consecutive saves.
>A humanoid killed by void death becomes a void zombie. A void zombie is a fast zombie (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary page 289) that gains a secondary "tongue" attack (actually the larval akata's feeding tendril), dealing 1d6 points of damage
Which has some interesting implications about the exact nature of undead. Since it still would be healed by negative energy despite being controlled by a living being.

>>53102046
That's every Paizo NPC unless they say otherwise.

>>53102046

Can we all take some time to appreciate the troubling truth that is, characters who are Siblings of an NPC can still technically romance that NPC?

Or, something I personally enjoy, being a Rival can still net you a romance, and one of the biggest things to do to Ameiko is belittle her for being a woman, netting you serious Rivalry.

You can literally fuck Ameiko by saying she's a meek, defenseless woman enough times.

>>53102084
Every NPC that is "said otherwise" are gay.

Oleg and that adorable couple in Shattered Star are the only two confirmed straight people in the series.

>>53102102
Anon, you know that the best romance options in fire emblem are your siblings, this extends to pathfinder as well

>>53099789
>spell burst savant is Wisdom based despite everything about it screaming it should be Int.
But it's about insight and simply knowing how magic works rather than meticulous study.

>a synthesist uses his eidolon's BAB when fused

Fuck me, you really can't multiclass Synthesist can you?

Anti/Paladin 2 looks soo good too.

>>53102102
I want an AP where you can romance your own mother.

>>53102141

>Be playing Fates
>Every love interest that is assumed to be a sibling, is not a sibling
>The canon love interest is your cousin

BRAVO

>>53102170
>not your own mother (male)

>>53102166
Its honestly one of the worst classes out there. The only reason I'd realistically play one was if I was playing 15pb or I wanted a high hp pool.

>>53102170

That's... That's Wrath of the Righteous, anon.

One of the background traits pings you as the mortal offspring of a god or goddess, who personally shows up in Book 3 to see how you're doing.

>>53102102
To be fair, I think the idea of rival-romance is that you're still in a *friendly* rivalry. Or just that it's a completely toxic relationship and after you fuck you go back to your corners and continue to snarl at each other.

>>53102123
The ranger woman from Reign of Winter had a husband, the huldra in that is straight, there's the lovers in Skinsaw Murders, the commander and sub commander of the Black Arrows are both straight, the dead king of Korvosa is straight, the bad guy of Shackled Hut is implied to have been in love with her male apprentice, the tranny guy from second book was straight before changing sexes, there's plenty of side quests and side characters that are about straight couples.

Plenty to pick from, but those are only the ones I remember/have read about.