/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53094518
One of my fav pics. Might be cos it looks likes an ex but whatever

>>53094544

Your ex looks like Lucita de Aragon?

Lucky cunt.

>>53094562
She was a bitch but yeh i was punching well above my weight.

>>53094587

>She was a bitch

So is Lucita.

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
None
>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Truthfully? All of them with the exception of Beast and Mummy. But my top three are, in order: Mage, Changeling, and Vampire.

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
Mage
Demon
Werewolf
Changeling

>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Geist
Promethean

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
None. Ive DMed Vampire 20th, Werewolf 20th, and Hunter The Vigil.

>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Both Vampires, Werewolf The Apocalypse, both Changelings, Mage The Asencion, Demon The Descent

Hows everyone liking c20 so far?

So which is the best revised clanbook and why is it Lasombra, even though it has no right to be?

>>53094518
I'd like to try to start again. I was for some time really in to the immersion aspect of it. Might be cool to check how well can I still kind of throw my self in to that "play mechanic". Scandi style rping is my alley. But now it's only about imoto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAck4Ki_TsA

>Question
Mage until had to enter life. Would like to try ctl, wraith and since pentex was and is saintly, I'd like to see a ww/vtm social kind of large scale event with pentex in the middle of the kerfalafel. Maybe even in the spirit of a larp, Not that american mindseyetherapy. No jan-ken-do. Mike pohjola -tier system design instead.

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
Demon the Descent, Vampire the Requiem

>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Geist, MtAw

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>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
None, I'm cardposter.
>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Promethean.

>>53094562
>Lucita de Aragon
I'd imagine she can do more with Arms of Ahriman than most kindred can with their whole body.

>Play?
Vampire, Werewolf, Promethean, Hunter, Chnageling

>Get a chance to play some day?
Deviant, Demon, Mage

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
WtA, VtM and DA:V

>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Changeling (both old and new), MtAs, oWoD changing breeds and Demon (both old and new).

>>53094954
Why is it good?

>>53094518
>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Hoping i get to play Changeling one day

If cardposting is such cancer, then vtes guys, come play on lackey, we have 3 atm and 2 more atleast would be nice. This way our badstupidfun won't mind anyone.

>>53096694
isnt ocgtn better than lackey and it had vtes cards for it somewhere??

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>>53094830
C20 is a beautiful dream. Especially when it comes to the assist it gives to people in making their new kiths and the allowance of room beyond what's written.

What conspiracy/behind the scenes force would you use to build some kind of brainwashing cult with nice shiny front. Shinny happy always smiling people - you know the vibe

>In Art Direction
>W20 Changing Ways

How long could it take until it is released?

okay but whete is Rio though

>>53096784
haven't tried it. Is there a bigger cmmunity?

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>>53097795
>whete is Rio
In Brazil

>>53096915
Yeah, this. They managed to take one of the most "meh" game lines from the original run of oWoD and turned it into something really quite nice.

>>53098259
Whats changed? I cba reading it and only played 1e when it first came out, but why is c20 better?

I am itching to play some Dark Ages Vampire or,if I have to, ST it. I was thinking about using some of the WW adventures,which ones are good? Both chronicles look ambitious but some birs smell of heavy railroad, and tha black cross scenarios appear... meh. I know I am nor a good sandbox GM though.

>>53098559
>https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm
Transyvannia and Giovanni both suffer from the pc's just sitting and watching major events unfold around them some of the time, sure they get to see alot of cool shit, but unless you go way of base and start to make it up yourself, they cant really change any of it, infact it even says if the pc's manage to stop Augustus from eating cappadocius say by killing augustus, Cappa will resurrect augustas so he can do it....

I ran both by joining em up, it sorta worked but the time jumps caused some problems, only so often you can trap all yer pc's underground so they have to enter torpor till found ;P

why the fuck does it auto add that pastebin after ive been looking at it..

>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?
None.
>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?
Vampire: The Masquerade. I've played a lot of Bloodlines but I don't know anyone around here who plays the pen and paper games.

>>53098652
>Cappa will resurrect augustas so he can do it....
But why?

>>53098724

As far as I could follow he wants to be martyred, and the Giovanni diablerie was not working - with Auspex 10 hd could have been a precog and seen that his spirit would be safe. Personally, I think WW wanted to show the PCs something awesome and put them in a big plot from the start, but did not want them to break a fundamental part of the setting, like preventing the Giovanni clan.

In a game I played we did save Japheth - though he later either committed suicide to follow Cappadocius as a spirit or faked his death - and killed Claudius. Pity the group broke up earlyin Book 2, the game had promise.

Did you guys get anything for free comic book deals?

>>53094830
>Hows everyone liking c20 so far?

Is out yet?

>>53098985
backer PDF is out on a MEGA link that I can't fucking find at the moment

>>53099045
nm, found it

>https://mega.nz/#!yMtBnSAC!-K5Val2vP6kD2x0yAjsfRk0234814CQlgrUSNRm3N_c

>>53098345
Arts and Realms are much cleaner, pooka aren't as cutesy, for two.

>>53098652
Alright, thanks. If I feel extra gutsy and we actually get to the end this could lead to some "setting houserules." ;)

How are the other dark ages adventures btw?

>>53099069
Did they change the 'psychiatry is evil' aspect or is that a different game line?

>>53099058

Thanks anon!

>>53099573

You may be thinking of Scientology.

It was never evil in changeling.

Being trapped in a metal ward being told that the things you know are real, are not in fact real, hurt changelings over time, more so when they get over medicated to correct the problem that is not a problem.

Its not good for Mages, Werewolves or a vampire either.

>>53099573
They changed it somewhat. It's now specifically psychiatrists following a certain kind of diagnosis that the mainstream psychiatric community considers to be bullshit.

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>>53099667

>furfag posting on /v/

Reality Deviants like you will burn.

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>>53099667
Honey, if I catch you looking at other mages again I'm turning the cockring silver and making spikes grow inward

>>53099691
I'll download my knot through your back door without a firewall

Why are werefags so fucking perverted?

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Does anyone else have the rest of these neckbeard mages?

>>53099637
are autists still soulless

>>53099876
I've only seen that one and the Acanthus one.

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>>53099876

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>>53099904

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>>53099921

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>>53099882
>>53099882
I don't think they ever were, and are clearly not in C20.

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>>53099939

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>>53099882
>>53099943

The closest to what you're thinking of my be crashing bore, as outlined in "The Autumn People"

>>53099876
>>53099904
>>53099921
>>53099939
>>53099956

top kek

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Is this how Brujah sires work in VtM

I wish Werewolf lore was a little more approachable.

Mage has true wizards vs. technomancers and the war for reality and truth (FAKE NEWS) which resonates today.

Vampire has the old-blood politicking and hidden society drama that we all know and love.

Werewolf has a bunch of wiccans living in the woods decrying humanity as a planet-killing menace despite being part of humanity.

Meanwhile Raeg makes them unable to live in average society, which is just silly for a game about masquerades.

I feel like Werewolf would work way better as a hunter-type game where you're a group of normal dudes/dudettes who happen to turn into giant wolves/ravens/bears at night and kill monsters/appease spirits.

Beast Courts of the east definitely seem to follow this more than the usual books.

>>53100033
>I feel like Werewolf would work way better as a hunter-type game where you're a group of normal dudes/dudettes who happen to turn into giant wolves/ravens/bears at night and kill monsters/appease spirits.

You know this is exactly waht Werewolf the Forsaken is?

Someone more learned with changeling lore than I, do Thallain have a kill on sight order for them or are they just dangerous as fuck.

Do they organize together to cause havoc in the autumn world?

I just got through reading V20. I used to play second ed and revised waaaay back when.

Is it me, or has VtM not...aged very well?

>>53100102

In what sense? Mechanics wise?

>>53100081

Many kingdoms have a sort of kill on sight thing with them, they are almost universally seen as bad if not Evil. They are welcome in very very few Seelie Kingdoms, but they have been known to allowed in Unseelie domains from time to time, Most Thallain can pose as normal Kiths. Which makes the problem worse.

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>>53100111
Well, no, mechanics wise it's still fine. Infact it's cleaned up.

But I don't know, I just think of the World of Darkness and that fact that it is...like, really crowded, with each critter being part of a global-conspiracy, yet all somehow going undetected despite the amount of shit all of them get up to.

Chronicles of Darkness has reduced the number of critters, as I understand it, and made it more local rather than global, and added a few more bits and bobs that would help these critters hide (I've run a VtR game which was pretty fleek)


Like...idk, maybe now that I'm older I'm kind of losing that ability to suspend disbelief a little. I mean, if it's a full on fantasy or scifi setting, or a setting where creepy-crawlies aren't so prevalent, I can still retain that. But for Masquerade, it...Man, I don't know.


It's kind of like a friend of mine who said that he couldn't get into Pokemon anymore because he played Pokemon GO, and he realized just how unbelievable it would be: how weren't these critter culled, I mean, we have a rat that can shock someone's pace-maker into seizing, and various water and fire creatures that would cause no end of maiming and property damage.

I...I don't know. Maybe it is *I* who hasn't aged well.

Also wow these games are prentious as fuck, aren't they? Especially back in the day, the writers of World of Darkness seems almost convinced they were writing Shakespeare in RPG form.

And I say all this while still *loving* the settings and the systems

>>53100147
Do Thallain team up with other thallain tho?

>>53100250

Ah, I know what you're talking about.

Essentially, you're not in the '90s mindset for this. Because that's what VtM used to be all about. And having passed that now, more than a decade ago, it gets harder to reel back the mind to that kind of thinking.

Don't get me wrong, I love all these things, minus the stuff like Dr. Totentanz and the like, but I'm perfectly capable of acknowledging that some shit just doesn't really click with me anymore in this modern age of ours.

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>>53099999
Also this

>>53100286
>Dr. Totentanz

Aw fuck. I love and hate that shit.

For the same reasons, too- that is some dank ass 90s shit.
Also because it's dumb as fuck

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>>53100323

I really do miss Bradstreet's early art, the shit we saw in the first edition of VtM.

>>53100352
>Bradstreet


Man, Tim Bradstreet *made* VtM, you know what I mean?

Like that pick, you see that and you know what you're getting into

Sunglasses at night, mah nigga

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>>53100385

Shame he's fucking terrible now. He made those terrible photoshopped "artworks" that are prominent in V20.

>Sunglasses at night, mah nigga

Near Dark did that for me, and Bill Paxton.

>>53100403
>Bill Paxton


"I'll be goddamned. Regular shit-kicker heaven!"

Anyone got epub copies of the Dark Ages: Vampire novels? The ones in the pastebin links are all .pdfs.

So in the last thread I asked if anyone would be interested in a CofD update to the Highlander fan splat, and a few people seemed into it, so I started looking it over in detail and I think this might be a project doomed to fail. Listed in side effects of the Quickening is a bunch of stuff that I'm sure will make magefags lose their shit, in particular almost total immunity to Life arcana, high resistance to Prime, and immunity to some aspects of Mind magic, including Discipline versions like Dominate. So just a heads up when I finish this, there are going to be a lot of anti-mage things in the errata, but don't get pissy, that's how it always was for this splat.

PS to the anon that gave me a link to C20, thanks, my group loves this book.

>>53100634
see
>>53099058

>>53100250
The 90's are gone, mate.

That's the real problem

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>>53100986
>problem

>>53100033
>I wish Werewolf the Apocalypse was Werewolf the Forsaken!

>>53100033
If you only played werewolf the apocalypse as some kind of eco-terrorist who hate humanity, you've been playing it wrong for all your life

>>53101010
>Implying that is not the thightest shit ever

>>53100273

Yes.

>tfw DaveB will never be the leader of a Marxist-Leninist vanguard party in your lifetime

>>53100634
Does this seem petty? The original splat was pretty clear that Mages can't remove the Quickening, but this might be a little petty about it.

Quickening (* to ***** *****):
The source of immortality. By efault, your character starts with a single dot of Quickening. If the ST allows an older Immortal, this can be increased. For five of their starting Merit dots, your character can start with Quickening 2. For an additional 5, you may start ith Quickening 3. Nothing may remove the benefits of Quickening, save removing an Immortal's head. Nothing may remove this immunity to removal. This means Mages, Archmages, Imperial Practices, etc.

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>>53101792
>tfw they're so desperate to triumph over the magefags, they resort to the Highlander Fansplat.

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>>53101792

Who the fuck even watches highlander (The movies, or the series anymore)

Fuck its not even worth doing a remake or re-imagining of..

>>53102121
Grandma is correct

Grandma is always correct

>>53102121
what if people just want a not shit version of immortals?

>>53102207
isnt there a book on them?

called WoD: Immortals?

>>53102207
>implying vampire is shit game of immortals

Your implication is correct

>>53102254
Yes. And most of the little splats in that book were utter garbage, that's what Im talking about.
>>53102260
No vampire is good, some people just want to play really old people without all the baggage of eating other humans and having a strict bed time. Most of the time its to get their /his/ rocks off.

Gonna be running a campaign set immediately after an apocalyptic event. I want the player characters to be competent but realistically killable/squishy human beings.

Would humans-only NWoD work well for this?

>>53102395
yes? is there a reason your using the wod system though and not something else?

>>53102425
I'm not necessarily. It's just that one of my players is very resistant to Apocalypse World and another says he doesn't want to use GURPS so I'm trying to think of other possibilities.

>>53102395
There are a few God-Machine scenarios for this in GMC.

>>53102462
smart guy, PbtA is trash

>>53102482
I'll check it out.
>>53102499
I've never played anything PbtA, but given how much some people love it, I can only assume /tg/'s hate for it is a result of (a.) that anon who won't shut up about how DW is the best thing ever, (b.) the fact that the creators are kind of left-leaning and hipstery, or (c.) both.

>>53102395
Go get WoD mirrors. Theres an entire section on post apocalypse.

>>53099882
Hmm? Oh, you want Demon: the Fallen. It's just down the corridor.

>>53099691
There are a large number of Gifts that can destroy infrastructure or shut down technology, and they get easier the more cutting edge it is, so good luck with that. The primium coating on a HIT Mark probably won't roll favorably against Jam Technology or Gremlins.

>>53098345
Because it had the 90s removed from it, and the Dreaming is a bit more resilient in the face of Banality. Also, what Banality is has been extensively revised to make it clear that it isn't synonymous with science and other facets of modern existence. Well, other than shit jobs where your manager delights in breaking you; that's incredibly banal.

>>53099667
Sex in Crinos is not a thing to try out unless your partner is a troll, numuzo'ho, rock giant or what have you, and probably not even then, since it's a -1 difficulty on Rage rolls and has fuckhuge claws that deal damage on par with a sword.

I mean, sure, mages say that they can withstand that with preparation, but lots of humans say that they prepare, you know?

>>53102725
>Also, what Banality is has been extensively revised to make it clear that it isn't synonymous with science and other facets of modern existence. Well, other than shit jobs where your manager delights in breaking you; that's incredibly banal.

Yep. This is a big one. Banality is more about the death of creativity. Using modern science and technology as a platform for inspiration and wonder is not Banal at all.

>>53102817
>I mean, sure, mages say that they can withstand that with preparation, but lots of humans say that they prepare, you know?

Except these are mages we're talking about. Preparation is their forte. If they want to fuck a giant manwolf, they WILL survive the knot.

>>53102848
Exactly, but just as modern wonders can free us, they can also trap us...

>>53102817
Why would you make Rage rolls in bed?

>>53102848
Of course, this was always the case--indeed, it was the moon landing that reopened the gates of Arcadia--but some people clearly needed it spelled out more clearly.

>>53101792
>Nothing may remove this immunity to removal.
Does it explicitly reference Imperial Practices?
Because they're fucking wrong. Templates can be removed with excision.

You can flat up remove someone's Awakened magic, unless they too are an Archmaster.

>>53102896
You're responding to non-canon fansplat shit.

Nobody cares about fansplats.

>>53102848
I agree. Just read that part, due remembering a part of the old Guide to the Technocracy that mentioned the level of Banality in the average Technocrat could strike certain Changelings dead.

>>53102918
This has nothing to do with modern technology, and everything to do with the Technocracy's entire purpose being the destruction of possibility and potential.

Also, I had what I think is quite an interesting idea for a power certain Changelings could pick up: the power to reverse the flow of Banality, i.e. damage Banal things and people by their mere presence.

>>53102955
That sounds like a Dark kin or thallain power

>>53102892
That's also touched on.

>>53102918
I loved that book, and Im an Avid fae / nocker player.

Its funny to go back and read it, and look at some of the wonders... What was considered like a 2-3 point wonder then, is what we call a smartphone or Tablet now....

Think about it a little deeper too...

Un-Awakened people can use wonders, up to 3 points.... We regularly use what was considered a 3 point wonder today..


The Technocracy has won.

>>53102894
It's not that someone wants to roll Rage, but that it just happens. Sufficiently intense emotions can trigger Rage rolls even if there's no threat around, and Crinos is described as a living embodiment of Rage. It's seriously not a form for fucking your girlfriend; use Near-Human instead of the aptly-named War Form.

>>53102870
The knot is the least of your worries. We're talking about hip thrusts from a nine-foot tall monster weighing at least 750 lbs, here. It's going to be awkward and laborious to use an extended Life roll whenever the werewolf gets horny... or when the mage gets horny. Having Arete doesn't make mages immune to bad judgment and forgetting important details. Quite the opposite, really.

>>53102918
Which in turn was a grave misunderstanding of the rules, since it would, at most, typically momentarily undo them. Also, the higher the fae's own Banality, the less the impact, hence why none of the merrow in Blood-Dimmed Tides were even slightly inconvenienced by the VEs that discovered them. Habitual ravagers like most Thallain kiths are going to build up a high tolerance to Banality rather quickly from all of the apathy that they cultivate in themselves.

>>53103078
You clearly haven't played Mage if you don't know how to survive sexual encounters with monsters.

>>53103078
>It's seriously not a form for fucking your girlfriend; use Near-Human instead of the aptly-named War Form.

Fair Glabro: Because musclegirls are best girls.

>>53103120
He's just joking around. Mechanically having sex with a werewolf is ridiculously easy using Life.

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>>53103150
Not with all of the potential failure points, it isn't.

>>53103123
Damn straight.

So anyone got plans for Changeling 20?

>>53103197
>Not with all of the potential failure points, it isn't.

There's actually very few. Though it also depends on which edition you're using.

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>>53103123
>musclegirls are best girls.
amen

>>53103280
Few, you say. For a huge monster several times someone's weight, which could snap at any moment and enter a murderous blood-rage. Well, at least you're not advocating trying to meth them up first...

>>53103349
>Few, you say. For a huge monster several times someone's weight, which could snap at any moment and enter a murderous blood-rage

Not an issue when Mind and Life is involved, though not all mages are going to be sufficiently proficient in such areas.

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>>53103267

I do, Im working on a game for some players now using the new rules.

going to use the Pinebox Texas map as the city, so far Im looking at 3-4 players, all are at least somewhat familiar with WW and the WoD, but not Changeling in particular.

So far kith wise Its going to be a late teens or early 20s Satyr, and a Mid 20s Nocker or Sluagh, 3rd and 4th players are still pending.

>>53103423
Could always have your Cabal mates help you out. Though why would you reveal your naughty furry sex life to them?

*wink wink*

>>53103457

The first few games will be getting them used to the concepts of Changeling, teaching them about Chimerical Reality vs The Autumn world, how Chimera work, how to cast Arts and Realms.... stuff like that...

I think the man story arch is going to be a modern fantasy murder mystery... who killed the Freehold Owner, and why...

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>>53103423
You're probably going to want a Forces buffer to lessen the momentum, too. Still a terrible idea, but I guess that's Mage for you...

>>53103519

One thing Im going to do is keep the players poor. Resources 1, and maybe 2 for a single player.

They want to problem solve, and throw magic as problems, so keeping money tight will help that, it will also give them a reason to live together

>>53103527
>image
Author wrote her vampires to be the ultimate mary sues. Blade is fucked.

Unless he happens to be a mage of course.

>>53103701
Meh, all you have to do to kill a twilight vampire is chop the body into pieces and burn it.

>>53103821
Yeah, but they're harder than diamond and run 350 - 750 mph.

A normie human can't do shit without supreme contingencies (like all mages) or matching their speed, somehow.

Is it just me, or is Retainer surprisingly powerful.
For 4-5 dots, you get someone with an 8-dot dice pool in a potentially wide area, with a 4-5 dot pool in everything else.

Define that as something like "bodyguard" and he's good in comat, at detecting threats, at reading people, and various other abilities which might be pretty blood hard for you to invest that much in.

I challenge you to get a dice pool of 10 in charging, running, tackling, jumping, chasing, reading people, shooting, and intimidating people with only 5 experiences to spend, and no Magic.

I'm totally going to have a 4-5 dot Bodyguard Retainer on my next character.

Also remember that's a 4-dot pool on everything else.
Giving him a fairly decent chance at doing practically everything else under the sun.

>>53103349
>murderous bloodrage
Sounds like a good time

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>>53103914
>Yeah, but they're harder than diamond and run 350 - 750 mph.

That's okay, he's got a *katana*.

>>53104266
Oh jeez, don't bring anime physics into this.

>>53104282
To be fair, Blade actually can do most of that kind of shit with his swords.

>>53100250
The normals are called sleepers for a reason. I like to play it were most people think there are things that go bump in the night but are to scared, ignorant and stupid to put it all together not unlike dark age peasants cowering in there hovels.

>>53099876
>>53099921
>>53099904
>>53099939
>>53099956

what's amazing about these are that the different species of fedora wearer all correspond perfectly to their chosen school

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So, me and my mates are going to start a game of Changling soon, and I don't know jack shit about the setting, aside from you're fae or like a storybook character that awaken in someone after a time of just chilling in their guts, and fae have to fight against boring shit since it kills them, all while without going crazy from suddenly knowing there's magic or something.

Anyway, would this character concept work in-setting: A fae that was the original Valkyrie spoke of in legends, that, after being reborn, realizes that nobody believes in Asgard anymore, and so goes around aiding mundanes with miracles (IE, saving someone from a burning building, killing a vampire, shit like that) while claiming and dressing up as St. Jeanne D'arc in order to try and bring about more Glamour and dreams into the world from the religious experience some may have from meeting a "saint" in the flesh, while her mild mannered human form when she isn't doing that is like a children's doctor.

If that doesn't work as a concept I'm probably just going to want to try and make a loli pirate or something, I dunno lads.

>>53104996
No

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Can we take a moment to just reflect on how good the C20 art is, especially the art of the Thallain Kiths?

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>>53105233

Like, look at that widdle insane goblin about to go to town on an MLP figurine with a hammer.

10/10

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>>53105243

It's the kind of art that actually makes me want to try playing one, or at least include them in my stories.

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>>53105253

Just look at that Ogre and Merrow art. Look at it, and be amazed. I've honestly gotten a boner from how good it is.

>>53105233
>>53105243
>>53105253
>>53105270
What is Changeling about? What kind of game is it?

>>53105233
>>53105243
>>53105253
>>53105270
Nobody will ever play C20, anon, no matter how hard you try.

It doesn't matter how much they fixed it, or even if it's good or fun or pleasant to look at now. It's CtD and that reputation will sink it every time.

I feel bad for the sons of bitches that wasted time on it.

>>53105682
Banality seems like a worse executed idea than consensual reality.

So. Any people know what the Changeling the Dreaming metaplot says about the Central Valley of California? C20 doesnt say anything, cept mentionig Napa is a free kingdom led by a bunch of wine maker fae, and hate to break it to those fuckers in the foothills, YOU GRAPE GROWING BASTARDS AINT IN THE VALLEY ITS IN THE FOOTHILLS!

I mean Sacramento, Davis, Roseville, Dixon (when the May Fair is around at least) are high profile enough to be a kingdom.

If there aint, anyone got any ideas for a kingdom in the Valley?

>>53105647
Alright, so...I'm not sure what you DO in it, but here's the premise.

The world sucks. Everyone is just going through the motions in life, or trapped beneath so many layers of irony they can't actually feel anymore, or otherwise just dead inside. If you've ever played the ending to Persona 4, you've got the right idea. Eventually this will result in the death of the collective subconscious, and thus the end of the world.

The guys trying to stop this are Changelings, which are, and I'm very sorry I had to tell you this, the souls of exiled faeries inhabiting the bodies of humans. They do...stuff, I'm not sure what, to hold off this endless winter and maybe bring a little bit of sincerity and hope back to the World of Darkness.

I want to play it now that C20 made it good, but I never have and never will so that's all I know.

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>>53103061

>The Technocracy has won.

Reposting that one anon:

>fund normal humans so they invent tiny cameras
>convince them to put cameras on every cellphone
>convince them to take selfies all the fucking time
>now most supernaturals can't even use their powers outside without risking the humans/hunters finding out about their existence

>>53105682
>It's CtD and that reputation will sink it every time.
What kind of reputation?


>>53105725
>I want to play it now that C20 made it good
Was it bad before? Why? What did they do to fix it?

>>53105743
The reputation that it's a game by otherkin, for otherkin.

>>53105798
A game about rapist otherkin, for rapist otherkin

>>53105818
So it's like Beast?

>>53105818
Yeah. Brucato was a secondary author on 1e and kinda left his FILTHY and VILE taint everywhere. C20 gladly fixes A LOT of that shit. Still hints of it that a good gm can work around or refluff.

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>>53103914
And Blade isn't? He's the Daywalker, after all, not a normal human. He can move in bullet time, too. Also, if you hit diamond with a hammer, it quickly turns from the hardest solid known to a bunch of powder and chipped minerals on the ground.

>>53105737
Monsters can still totally use their powers with relative impunity. It just takes a bit of oomph to make sure that all the electronics around end up bricked all at once.

>>53105720
In prior editions, but now, nothing is worse than consensual reality.

>>53105857
Yeah, his other books about dog fucking are also subpar. I get the impression from the people who hang around him that he is probably for reals an animal fucker. Hes legit stupid crazy at least. That fucking retard thinks magic is real, and left out how to cast magic from the book because he thought people would accidentally do magic. Everything he does is trash.

>>53105871
Pretty sure Brucato was that Blackhat Matt fellows inspiration. Bastard wrote beast. Not to mention hes tone deaf motherfucker.

>>53105897
Probably why certain parts of C20 come off as seeming to imply certain groups are just fronts for violent extremism (which, while true, i doubt the author even realized he made the connection in his own text)

>>53105910
He'd likely call anyone calling him out for it a MRA/gamergater again.

>>53105910
Oh yeah.

>>53105929
I mean this is the same guy who thought Beast was a good idea. (I still have buyers remorse)

>>53105871

Wasn't 1e mage before Brucato took over the Line? How'd that work out?

>>53105955
>buyers remorse
I backed beast, the early preview material showed interesting mechanics. Then they trashed the whole book with a half assed rewrite, even if it wasn't tone deaf and retarded, it still would have ended up shit. The only book I regret backing on kick starter more was m20
WHY DID I SPEND $375 ON A FUCKING BOOK BY BRUCATO, EARLIER EDITIONS AND HIS STUPID PERSONAL FRIENDS TRICKED ME INTO THINKING HE WASN'T JUST A STUPID DOG FUCKER[\spoiler]

>>53105987
Yup sounds about right

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>>53105798
>>53105818

Good to see that you've let some nut job snowflakes ruin an entire genre of gaming for you friends.

>>53106175
>nut job snowflakes
But what if the special snowflakes are the authors of the god damn book?

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>>53105647
>What is Changeling about? What kind of game is it?

Changeling is about faeries, and the game's "challenge" usually relates to trying to keep creativity, fantasy and optimism alive, all while trying to make sure your own beliefs and views doesn't get crushed under the miasmic and ever-growing cloud of skepticism and "cold reality" (called Banality) in the modern world.

Fae, in order to survive through humanity's dreariness, took on mortal forma in order to protect themselves from the worst of the effects. They thus have a faerie form and a human form, and are "Changelings", being reborn into mortal bodies but with a faerie soul.

Your opponents are thus often comprised of mortals that knowingly or inadvertently keep making the world a grayer place to live, nightmarish dream creations (who seek to plunge the world into a never-ending death- and horror-show of untold proportions), other supernatural creatures (including vampires), and other faeries as well (as the courts of the faeries can be even bloodier than the most ruthless of vampire courts).

But for all that, it's a game that stands out as the "Happy" sibling in the World of Darkness family. It's a game about trying to keep some of your childhood stories alive in a world that keeps doing its best to murder any sense of wonder that might still exist, a world that tells you to only ever "grow up" and toss away anything related to "fanciful imagination".

>>53106326
But what's the problem with selfies?

>>53106326
This picture just makes the game look like its for (playing) emo faggots who can't handle their shit in the real world.

>>53106354
>But what's the problem with selfies?

Nothing, inherently. C20 does a good job of explaining that technology is not evil. In fact, just think of how much creativity has blossomed thanks to technology!

However, a selfie by itself isn't an instrument of banality, but it usually *isn't* very fantastical, innovative or such. It's just a picture, of your face. And when you take a dozen pictures of your face every single day, that's when it isn't being creative anymore. It's just a "routine", like putting on your clothes every day.

Some changelings, when they accrue too much banality, become lost in the mortal life, but still exhibit small signs of creativity, of a fantastical soul that was once there, but is now long dead. It's a heart-wrenching sight for the other changelings who aren't yet lost in the cloud of "skepticism and reality":

That's what the art of the selfie-picture is meant to symbolize, the true death of a friend's soul, withered away to a few scraps of what they once were.

>>53106449
To be honest the continued rejection of 'banality' sounds like a deliberate descent into madness.

>>53105233
I just can't stop laughing at the not!Satyr giving the International Cunnilingus Sign.

>>53103701
I've read the Twilight series several times, to my eternal shame.

Blade is half-vampire, right? Half-vampires in Twilight pretty much get all the strengths of vampires with none of the weaknesses, so he would maybe stand a chance. Maybe. Because either way Edward reads minds and is basically Superman sans laser eyes, flight, x-ray vision, and freeze breath.

Okay yeah Blade is fucked.

>>53106548
>To be honest the continued rejection of 'banality' sounds like a deliberate descent into madness.

Oh, that's definitely the case for some Fae. Some are so utterly "Anti-Banality" that they refuse to have anything to do with the mortal world, to degrees of varying success.

For example, some Fae, despite having a mortal form, might refuse to do the number-crunching of taxes and deals needed to just have a place to stay, and instead order "lesser" Fae (or humans with Fae blood) to do it for them.

Some changelings fear Banality so much that it's *exactly* like a descent into madness. Others are more "Eh, I don't like it, but sometimes you gotta do things you don't like", justifying it with "a little banality now to allow for greater dreams later", and so on. And for some, that method works. For others, it fails horribly, etcetera.

>>53106326
>But for all that, it's a game that stands out as the "Happy" sibling in the World of Darkness family

Oh, now I understand why people hate it.

>>53106615
>I've read the Twilight series
Nothing wron-

>several times
But why?

>>53106632
The only thing going for the Twampires is their speed.

Remove that and they're finished.

>>53106671
>Celerity is OP
Yeah, it was broken since the first edition

What version of it do you guys think is the best?

>>53106671 was meant for >>53106615

>>53106682
I personally prefer CofD 2e's version that lets you jump the initiative AND dodge bullets.

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Shes newly Awakened. Would you teach her?

>>53106711
What path and arcana?

>>53106716
Thyrsus

kek

It only takes two dots of Forces to nuke Edward Cullen up the dick.
Speed blitzing won't change the outcome.

Doctor Strange > The Flash

>>53106711
>>53106716
>>53106724

I'm nigh certain I would Awaken as a Mastigos, so certainly not!
Much too different of a standard.

>>53106711
Probably.
Kids as young are a threat to themselves, the world, and potential Seer recruits.

Whats a good shadow name for a nature based Acanthus who us plants seeds/roots/branches as tools for divination

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>>53106633
>Oh, now I understand why people hate it.

"Happy" is a bit relative, though.

I mean, it's not as "everything is bad, and we can't fix it fast enough" like in Vampire, Mage or Werewolf, but it's still very much a game about how the world is slowly becoming darker and drearier.

There's still mind-raping, body-raping, difficult ethical dilemmas and murderfests galore in Changeling the Dreaming, so no need to worry on that front.

>>53106730
>Doctor Strange > The Flash

Superman > Goku

>>53106767
Hippy

>>53106767
Order? Age? Self-image? What do they want out of their name?

>>53106784
Just something thematic. They learning a Legacy where Fate/Time can bee seen in plant life.

>>53106662
My long and sordid love affair with the Twilight series began way back when I was in middle school, when the books first came out. The girls in my class were crazy about it, so naturally the boys (me included) made fun of it and them relentlessly.

One day I had the brilliant idea that I could mock it even better if I actually knew more about it, so I took my sister's copy when she was finished with it and started reading it. I was surprised to find that I actually kind of liked it. I won't tell you that it's good and doesn't deserve all the belittlement, but the books are way better than the movies. Edward and Bella have way more character and have actual chemistry and there's good little bits of wit in it, and the author makes things feel believable and doesn't go for the over the top drama all the time like the movies do. So I kept reading it, getting around the fact that it was girly by just reversing some genders in my head. I was also came up with different explanations for the stupid stuff that didn't mesh with what I thought of vampires, so I explained the Cullens' more docile nature and their resistance to sunlight as a bonus to their animal blood diet.

I didn't really try to hide it, so my mom and my sister thought it was hilarious and dad wasn't around to stern disapproval me out of reading it. So as the books kept coming out I kept reading them, and every now and then I would read them again in the same way that you would rewatch a movie you had nostalgia for.

But remember I was like 10 the first time so pls no bully.

>>53106671
That, and their various psychic abilities.

>>53106798
>pls no bully

Anon, where do you think you are?

>>53106798
> I was also came up with different explanations for the stupid stuff that didn't mesh with what I thought of vampires, so I explained the Cullens' more docile nature and their resistance to sunlight as a bonus to their animal blood diet.
This actually makes sense

>so my mom and my sister thought it was hilarious
Not cool!

>so pls no bully
There is nothing to be ashamed of, people have different tastes

>>53106798
I watched the first movie because of all the meme nature around it, I was then curious how the story ended so I read all the books.

At that point I was already in to deep so I went and saw the rest of the movies in theater at midnight showings.

I wouldn't call them good, but they were at least entertaining.

>>53106809
Good thing we have mages to no-sell each and every one of them!

>>53106822
I'm not really ashamed, I just always considered the series to be like a guilty pleasure of mine. I was excited to see the Life and Death remake of the first book (with all the genders swapped just like I imagined as kid) but Meyer totally botched the execution. Really disappointing.

>>53106871
>Life and Death remake
Jesus fuck I just looked this up. What a hack writer. Instead of a new story or book or characters she just changes names on characters who don't show what they are, just tell you. So she changes basically nothing about the story but the names, hell, the characters genders weren't even important in the first one except for what, the pregnancy?
Sounds fucking retarded. Did you actually read it?

How much XP does a player typically get per session? I was told 3-5 by a friend but the number of XP needed to advance anything makes this rate seem wrong

>>53106909
That sounds correct. How often do grown people actually learn new skills, or improve them selves physically to any real degree? Social resources (merits or influence or the like) are the only real thing people change in most of the time in real life, I've always thought the game's XP costs match this fairly well.

>>53106909
2-3xp a session is normally what my st gives but I'm playing old world where things are cheaper.

>>53106889
>Did you actually read it?
Yes. It wasn't so bad, she just has no idea how to write a boy as a main character. Some other stuff irked me too, but overall it was fairly middling. It was neat to see how it was with the genders actually reversed though. And in fairness to the author, she made it clear it was just a fun little side thing she did in response to the fans wondering how it would read with Bella as a boy and Edward as a girl. Just a one-shot. There isn't going to be a Life and Death: New Moon.

>>53106929
>How often do grown people actually learn new skills, or improve them selves physically to any real degree?

Too slowly for me to enjoy playing a character in this system, I guess.

>>53106797
Okay then, hippie.
There's nothing else that really fits.
Shadow names are personalised.
Taking a "generic" one is really just going to get people to roll their eyes at you.

>>53107011
If you're concerned about stat growth over story then yeah, its the wrong system for you. Or you can just give more XP per session.

Hmm Im having difficulty finding things for my sleepwalker retainer ••• to do. He also happens to be my husband.

>>53106909
>How much XP does a player typically get per session?

Depends. I always give a player one point just for showing up and playing during the session, another point if they roleplay their characters well and don't excessively goof around OOC, if they uncover something of particular importance to the current plot (and manage to link the information to said plot), if they played things smart and managed to see things I hadn't considered and find a way to use that to their advantage, and so on.

With my usual groups, it averages out to 2-4 experience per session. That's usually enough to, for example, have their character learn a new ability at the end of every session (though I usually only let them spend exp at the end of the story, rather than the end of the session), or enough to raise one of their shittiest attributes from a single dot to two dots.

It depends on how often you play, and how long your stories usually are. If you play only one time per week, it can take a lot of time to amass the experience needed to raise a power by a single dot, but if you play 2-3 times a week (or more, if you're hardcore) it can be quite ridiculous how fast you smash your way through sessions and amass exp.

>>53107045
>>53107029
>>53107011
>Running oMage
>Give out 2 XP flat per session
>Run once a week
>My PCs are rapidly accelerating into crazy-awesome power levels

No idea what you niggas are on about.

>Unless you're talking about CofD and the XP costs are much higher in which case IGNOER ME

>>53107032
What's his purview?
Because unless you have one of those defined, he's going to be fucking useless.

>>53107067
Define purview.

>>53107075
The thing you are required to choose when you take the merit for what the retainer is good at.

>>53107060
It's CofD and I think I've made a huge mistake in joining this game

>>53107060
I assumed CofD given the 3-5 number.

>>53107091
Why are you such an autism about stats?

>>53106798

>So I kept reading it, getting around the fact that it was girly by just reversing some genders in my head

Didn't the author release a reverse gender version of it anyway?

>>53107091
>It's CofD
2 Experiences per session? That's a fair bit.
Most I've ever gotten is about 9 beats, and that was with being a rampant beat whore.

>>53107117
He said experience and gave 1e xp ranges. Which implies 1e CofD

>>53106797
"Grapevine" as in "To hear something through the grapevine".

>>53107110
Yeah, like two years ago. So I had her beat by about a decade.

>>53107106
New system shock. I guess I'm just used to having more game in my games.

>>53107124
1e CofD is nWoD
And that's pretty fuckin low.
Especially given 1e's non-linear advancement costs.

Let's be real here.

OWoD > CofD

>>53107165
OWoD>CofD>NWoD
For pretty much every game line.

>>53107165

Is this bait? I think this is bait.

>>53107147
Playing NWoD for the stats just doesn't work.
It works midly better in OWoD, but with freebies and flaws you can usually build what you want and don't need to worry much about growth.
It can work in CofD, where if you play smart you actually get rewarded by the system with XP.

>>53107165
>>53107174

Let's be real.

My tastes > your tastes

You literally cannot disprove this.

>>53107191
I dunno, sounds like you have pretty shit taste. But I also read Twilight, so the fuck do I know.

>>53107191
What are your tastes, exactly?

>>53107191
Nope.

My opinions > your opinions

Sorry

>>53107165
Depends on what you're after.

OWoD is more fleshed out but comes with A LOT of stupid baggage (looking at you clan Ravnos and Assamite).

NWoD has the benefit of being a lot more flexible but you lose a lot of the large scale cool shit because it's designed to be a much more personal kind of game.

So does anyone know why they didn't write a revised Convention book for Iteration-X along with the rest a few years back?

>>53107174
>For pretty much every game line.
Except Mage. Ascension is trash. Dead trash.

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>>53107202

Joking aside, I like both oWoD and nWoD. Disregarding the fact that the latter would not exist without the former, they're two different things, and I enjoy both of them for different reasons. But seriously now, VtR really needs some fluff buildup. Anyone have an idea when Thousand Years of Night is estimated to release?

Aside from this though? Dark Sun, Ravenloft and Planescape have been my bread and butter for the past two decades.

>>53107218
It was the only group that got one during the original print run, why would they remake it when they were just completing the series it was already in?

>>53107224
Ascension has more trash in it (Sons of Ether mostly), but Consensual reality is so much of a cooler idea than the overused Gnostic motiff.

>>53107245
The Seers are also super boring uninteresting generic villains compared to the far more interesting and compelling (and human) Technocracy.

>>53107263
I rather like the Seers as villains.

>>53107245
Consensual Reality is fucking retarded. The Supernal Realms and Atlantis are way cooler and actually involve some effort instead of going for the cheap creative cop out that lets you have your garbage sink game.

>>53107236
Because it was written 11 years before the rest, and does a shitty job of reflecting the current world?

>>53107263
Seers are as human as it gets, anon. They're a mix of indoctrinated zealots and people with the "fuck you, got mine" mentality. Both of those types of people are abundant in real life.

I can reduce the Technocracy to their base archetype too. They're just "The Man".

Are mages the strongest splats in both oWoD & CofD? Or is it just the latter? Or former? I don't know which side produced the supremacy meme.

>>53107310
Both.

>>53107310
Both.
In the former, they can eventually buttfuck the universe into a donut shape. Literally.

In the latter, they can eventually erase the concept of Vampirism from the universe.

Even ignoring Archmastery, they have by far the most flexible, and powerful abilities of any splat. By design.
It's a bit retarded to hold back a splat about creative use of Magic simply for the purpose of making the other supernaturals feel better.

>>53107278
I disagree. The supernal realms and history of atlantis (if you drop the stupid name that makes everyone think of a disney movie or aquaman) are serviceable in what they are and the Abyss is actually really fucking cool.

But Consensual reality keeps the focus on what you're fighting for and lends well to more relatable antagonists like >>53107263 said.

When you're doing the whole gnostic angle nothing you do in this reality matters because it's literally just a fake world with no real purpose other than letting you fuck around.

>>53107337
I agree, after reading more I enjoy both settings.

Ascension is very "war for reality", which fits the entire design of that gameline, which involves quite literally, fighting over what you think reality should be.

Awakening is more "reach for the heavens", hunting down hidden secret pearls of magical power and knowledge scattered throughout the world. In it, the real world could honestly just be wallpaper for all that it truly matters to your mystic life.

>>53107334
Is there a reason for archmages being so powerful? That sounds like something you're not supposed to even win against.

>>53107263

>Technocracy
>villains

Nephandi fucking shits, get out.

>>53107369
Because they're so fucking hard to become, that you'll never actually get there.
It's like talking about epic D&D.

Like, bare minimum, to get to Archmastery in CofD requires Gnosis 6, and enough experience to survive a trip across anti-reality, and your Arcanum at 6.
It's crazy expensive, and that's burning everything else for that purpose.

And even then, your Archmastery is basic bitch level stuff. Adaptive spells and so forth, and if you rock the boat, the rest will gang-pile your ass, take everything you have, then retroactively erase you from reality.

>>53107337
Wrong. What happens in the Fallen World does matter, because you fucking live there. It's like the Matrix. The world might just be a simulacrum prison, but the people are still real and so is your life. The Seers are also relatable antagonists, anybody who says otherwise doesn't actually know jack about them.

And ironically, Consensual Reality cheapens everything way more than the Gnostic stuff does (which it doesn't) because literally none of the magic or science stuff that you're doing is real. It's all in your head. There's no deeper meaning to explore and investigate like there is with the Supernal, it's all just your own delusion.

And by the by Atlantis isn't the real name of the city. The real name is a mystery and Atlantis is a fine placeholder if you go by the actual myth of the city where it's an allegory for hubris, a central theme of the game.

>>53107369
>Is there a reason for archmages being so powerful?
Both power and potential are major themes regarding both Ascension and Awakening.
It's only natural, really.

>That sounds like something you're not supposed to even win against.
In most cases, yes. These are nigh-godly workings of ungodly magics.
Imperial Mysteries even goes as far to mention that triumphing over these beings is nearly futile of an endeavor.

Does anyone still play Inferno?

Do the other splats get archmage tier templates too or are mages just that privileged and white?

>>53107409
I think we're just at an impasse based on preference.

I see what you mean but I think the hypocrisy that you see in consensual reality is just another aspect I like about it because it means if the Technocracy ever was defeated it would just lead to the Traditions imploding in on one another.

Also I can see how you CAN make the Seers relatable but I don't think they're AS relatable as the Technocracy in the most recent editions of OWoD because human self interest and self preservation is their underlying theme rather than human advancement.

I do really like NWoD's legacies though.

>>53107470

Changelings do, and it notes other splats have beings of a similar tier watching over them, protecting them from Imperial tier interference, but most don't.

>>53107470
Changelings can become one of the Gentry, but they're more limited than Archmages, especially at the higher end of things. They're not even traditional Templates.
Each gameline has 'sponsors' watching over them, similar to Archmages. They're not playable however.

Currently Mage is the only gameline to have received proper treatment for god-tier play.
Yes, they're privileged.

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>>53107470
Not really.
And now you know about Mage Supremacy.

>>53107406
Epic D&D isn't exactly hard to reach. Certainly its generally quicker to get to level 21 than to get the 200ish xp that you need to hit archmagedom in 1e.

Archmagedom is hard to reach, but that's just a symptom of high XP costs (in 1e anyway; don't know how Mage 2e or Archmage 2e works, if there is such a thing). Mage core has legacy attainment shit that's way harder to reach, and it isn't massively hyped like archmagedom is.

>It's crazy expensive

Its not crazy expensive by 1e standards.

>>53107484
Yeah okay fine whatever agree to disagree.

>>53107506
Well then enjoy the fact that the GM can flat up say "no", as you've never experienced an event sufficient to complete your Threshold Seeking.

>>53107484
Seers are nowhere as easy to relate to as the Technocracy, especially as they are dunked in a coating of Evil for Evil's Sake; they are definitely intentionally villains and villainous, often for no particular reason, and you can tell that the author is breathlessly convinced of the moral superiority of mass awakening.

They are, however, no more difficult to humanize than the Guardians.

>>53107516
>assuming all GMs will say "no"

lol

>>53107516
Okay...? I'll keep that in mind when, if ever, I have a GM and am in MtAw.

I'm just talking costs, since expense was mentioned, and Archmagedom is expensive, but not expensive by the insanity of 1e. There are attainments covered in a pretty "meh, whatever" utilitarian way that are much more expensive than Archmagedom.

Quite obviously, no ST will dick with Archmage shit if he doesn't want the campaign to go in that direction.

Me personally? Nothing about Archmagedom strikes me as more daunting than normal Mage.

>>53107337
>literally just a fake world

Imperial Mysteries has a big aside on the Fallen World as not so much being Fallen from the superior Archmage perspective but "the place where shit happens."

What does it call it, again? Anyone? The Phenomenal World, I think? (As in Phenomena happen there)

>>53107553
Yep, Phenomenal.
It's quite a funny little turnaround.
The Archmasters, the entities most distanced from the real world and the ability to leave it behind, are some of those who understand best how important that world really is.

My favorite aspect of nWoD Archmages is their capability to conjure entirely new splats using seven dot Imperial Practices.

Princess: The Hopeful could become an actuality, people!

>>53107577
Or promote the Purified to a mainline splat.

>>53107577
Let's just hope no Archmaster is a weeaboo.

What's the most ridiculous thing an Archmage could muster? Be it old or new.

>>53107621
Yes.

>>53107621
Old Archmages are sort of just an exercise in masturbation, as much of the stuff they could do isn't all that impressive as what normal mages do. For example, much of what high level Forces can do, Matter 5 can already do.

New Archmages tend to generally do whatever they want until somebody says no. Its not much of a game per se.

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>>53107504

>>53107621
Just some of the things I've seen magefags come up with.

OWoD
>Turn off gravity in the universe, causing everything to end. Just by chewing bubblegum.
>Reshape the universe into a multiverse with yourself as its new omnipotent ruler, effectively dethroning God.
>Become the sole consciousness of existence.
NWoD
>Enslave Luna and forcer her to become your personal waifu, with Helios as a possible husbando.
>Rewrite how the Wyrd functions, enabling you to dominate the entirety of the Hedge, Arcadia and the denizens within, including the True Fae
>Hack the God-Machine

>>53107657
Disgusting wank

Worst part is that it's all mechanically feasible. No ST is ever going to let you do any of that though.

>>53107657
>Helios
>Husbando

Yes please.

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>>53094518
>Which of the splats do you actually play?

Vampire: the Masquerade.
(Also the core book was my very first RPG I bought.)

>Which ones would you like to get a chance to play one day?

Mage: the Ascension.

>>53106768
He probably just means that your average player of the other games is often a bitter cynic who would have gigantic levels of banality if he was a changelling npc.

So if we are discussing new and old can someone playing VtM explain to me difference between tzimisce, ventrue and lasombra? Because they all seem to be wearing the same hat

>>53107854
Ventrue: Decadent aristocrats

Lasombra: Sabbat's decadent [catholic] aristocrats

Tzimisce: Decadent Eastern European nobles with horrible fleshcrafting powers. Very, VERY strongly believe in sacred hospitality.

>>53106909
In our group the DM gives 5 to everyone after a normal 4 hours game (more if it's longer or really enjoyable), and sometimes additional point during the game after an exceptional roleplaying act.

It's more than most give, probably, but we only play from time to time and it would be tedious to have some progression otherwise.

>>53107899
So there is no reason that the couldn't be one clan with ideological split? Doesn't that make them all a bit redundant? Do lasombra exist simply to fill ventrue niche in sabbat?

>>53107854
I can get Ventrue and Lasombra, but Tzimisce? They got their own niche. Most people pick the tzimi to play a Menguele rather than an aristocrat.

>>53107958
>So there is no reason that the couldn't be one clan with ideological split?

Obtenebration.

>>53108031
>>53108014
Well yeah but this just a discipline yes? So something that you can slap on anything and anyone?

>>53107657
What books go into detail to do all of that?

>>53107958

The distinction is indeed quite redundant. The problem is the clans were introduced ages ago and because VtM is so metaplot heavy they couldn't really just retcon stuff, so they just kept piling on more and more cultural factors to make some distinction but it was never going to be as effective as if you started out with writing clear and defined ethos like with the other camarilla clans.

My ideal would be to take the Eastern European noble motiff of the Tzimisce and just make it a cultural divide with the Iconic Ventrue of Roman and Germanic ilk.

As for the Lasombra, they could work very well (if you didn't lump them in the sabbat like a moron) if they were handled like W:tA's Shadow Lords, underhanded, dirty and brutal conquerors who served well as the Right Hand for so long that they've become disgruntled with their position and are now trying to take the reigns.

>>53108064
What? No. Obtenebration and the abyss mysticism in general are very important in Lasombra's clan culture. If your WoD has ventrues with obtenebration you're doing it wrong.

>>53108105
The difference between Tzimisce and Ventrue (or Lasombra) is that the first ones are real old school nobility while second ones are just "the high class" of any era. A good Tzimisce would not consider millionaire businessmen and bankers to be so much above the poor, they're all plebeians. Ventrues are way more adaptable, even when they often play the role of conservatives in the Camarilla.

>>53108105
Yeah you are probably right Shadow Lords route would make more sense.

In VtR they made tzimisce-lite as a nosferatu-bloodline called Yagnatia. They are very much this old, evil eastern tyrants. Twist is that nosferatu curse is displayed as aura of fear. They are also Circle of Crone aligned so you can slap pagan blood sorcery on them. I know that it's not the same but I like them for what they are

>>53108150
Well that is what I was asking about. If Lasombra were indeed clan of creepy shadow mystics instead of church-ventrue I would understand the division

>>53108219
Well, they are a clan of creepy shadow mystics AND church ventrue.

But (priest ie mainstream) Setites are a clan of creepy snake mystics AND egypt ventrue. Vissier assamites are basically arab ventrues. The Toreador themselves are not that different from Ventrue.

I'll say that the problem is not with Lasombra or any of those other clans but with having the Ventrue, who are a clan of rulers and basically nothing else most of the time. I would not make any clan a group of Ventrue, on the contrary I would remove camarilla mainstream Ventrue and maybe substitute them with Sabbat ventrues who are way more interesting.

>>53108203
But that's such a cop out. You don't need to invent a whole goddamn clan to do old school lords when you can literally just use old school lord Ventrue which is totally still a thing.

Heck the Ventrue have a whole series of ancient internal traditions that even the modern ones have to abide by (learn to recite your lineage back to Veddartha, never turn away another ventrue who seeks shelter, never forget to celebrate a "death day" of your kin, etc).

I'll give you the potential need for vampires who are straight up Alien in mindset like the metamorphosis Tzimisce but otherwise you do not need another clan.

>>53108314
The problem is that ventrue are not really old school nobles. They're nobility as perceived by the american general public, who has a very flawed concept of the whole issue. They come from a culture that never had real nobility. That's why you have businessmen and banker ventrue, when a roman patrician or a medieval noble would kill himself before becoming a filthy merchant. Old nobility ventrue simply don't work, they would be dead by now or are not really nobles.

The anachronic nobility aspect of Tzimisces is an attempt by White Wolf to somewhat correct this understandable mistake they made with the Ventrue. This is why Dracula is not a ventrue and probabky why Tzimisces are eastern european and not from somewhere else. I agree though that the metamorphosis/alien aspect of them is way more interesting and original, and that it's a bit arbitrary and weird to have those two unrelated things on one clan.

Does anyone have that one Werewolf (not sure if it's Forsaken or Apocalypse) artwork, with one female character, presumably werewolf herself, surrounded by a pack of wolves? I remember she was tattooed on the arms and wore a sleeveless shit.

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>>53108414

Never mind, found it.

Now that we're talking about wolves, I'm a bit new to WoD in general, I've been playing Apocalypse lately and I don't get why would you use most of the forms. Glabro and specially Hispo look completely useless.

I get human form is useful in a modern/urban game and wolf is fast and good for hunting, but there's no reason to not be on Crinos form all the othwrer times and I don't really know why would you transform into glabro or hispo if you have crinos.

>>53108444
I would wear her like a hat..

>>53108444
Hot. Werewolves are best waifus.

>>53107519
>Seers are nowhere as easy to relate to as the Technocracy, especially as they are dunked in a coating of Evil for Evil's Sake; they are definitely intentionally villains and villainous, often for no particular reason, and you can tell that the author is breathlessly convinced of the moral superiority of mass awakening.

The Seers are some of the most relatable and understandable antagonists in the CofD.

The Truth of Reality is that the Exarchs have already won. The world is a crappy prison. You can choose to either live as an inmate or reap the benefits of being a guard.

The magical and mundane rewards and comforts of Seer membership are indeed legion. Occasionally screwing over some Sleepers or following the pdd orders of a literal god who could crush you into oblivion is a very, very small price to pay.

It's easy to profess moral righteousness in the abstract. It's quire another when faced with true power and luxury or death or worse for refusal. When it comes to the best hookers and blow, nobody, and I mean nobody, comes close to the Seers.

>>53108843
>It's easy to profess moral righteousness in the abstract.

Problem, RPGs are abstract and thus players have a level of disconnection from the day to day lives of their PC so the seers arent relatable to players.

Maybe in a novel they would work, maybe but honestly they are to 1 dimensional.

>>53108872

If you want to understand how to relate to the Seers, simply imagine being dirt poor and then being offered a powerful, ludicrously high-paying job in a corporation that engages in controversial activities such as natural resource mining or tobacco.

>>53108872
Bullshit. If you actually roleplay your character as a person instead of just a bunch of traits and allegiances on a piece of paper then you should easily be able to emphasize with people who decided to join the Seers.

"Level of disconnection" my fucking ass.

>>53108843
>It's easy to profess moral righteousness in the abstract. It's quire another when faced with true power and luxury or death or worse for refusal. When it comes to the best hookers and blow, nobody, and I mean nobody, comes close to the Seers.

No one's saying they're not relatable. But they only relate to our basest instinct of desire and self preservation. That makes then understandable but honestly quite pathetic.

There's no noble intention in what they're doing and that is why people are saying the Technocrats are better antagonists. The Seers are just people who gave up on fighting back because logically it's a poor decision.

The Technocrats run the gambit from heros trying to save humanity to psychopaths just looking for an outlet and everything inbetween. They are relateable in every facet of humanity not just fear and want.

>>53108978
>gave up on fighting back because logically it's a poor decision.

Correction to my post*
They didn't give up on fighting back, they just chose not to.

The former sounded needlessly antagonistic.

>>53108978
>No one's saying they're not relatable
>>53108872
>>53107263

And people say it about them all the time. And what's with this stupid notion that an antagonist has to have noble intentions to be good?

Changes that I would make to Mage:

There's no ability to just switch off other peoples' supernatural resistance with Unmaking.
Arcadia is an alien world that doesn't have contracts with the Supernal. As such, Awakened magic can't directly interact with the Wyrd, and completely fails to work in Arcadia itself.
The Spirit Arcanum only works on spirits whose rank is equal to or lower than your rating in the Arcanum. For instance, if your Arcanum level is 3, spells won't work on rank 4 or higher spirits.
More changes area lways possible.

Who are the best Werewolves and how come they're the Get of Fenris?

>>53109067

>Garou
>best anything

>>53109031
>And what's with this stupid notion that an antagonist has to have noble intentions to be good?

Because it goes a long way to adding depth you jackass. They don't NEED to have noble intentions, but if your antagonists have a good fucking arguments FOR their cause you're on the right track and your argument carries a lot more weight if it's not just
>>53108843
>When it comes to the best hookers and blow, nobody, and I mean nobody, comes close to the Seers.

>>53109070

Surely they're the best at chimpingout?

>>53109097

Okay, fair enough, they are for that.

>>53109067
Get of Fenris are the best at fulfilling their duty but as far as depth and fun to play nothing beats a good Fianna.

>>53109113

>>53108536
There are situational benefits. The intermediate forms can be handy when you need some of the benefits of crinos but can't risk going to war form.

>>53108405

There is a vast amount of stuff related to the Ventrue being nobility, and then pointing out that only very recently that they changed the nature of their power bases because the world was changing. They adapted to the new world and retained their "elite" nature; going from the old world dukes and barons of western Europe, to the CEOs of the globe.