>If you ignore the fact that I'm 3 meters tall, have

Who cares

space marines are considered mutants

they get away with it because the emperor literally created them out of his own flesh and blood

>>53076612
That's the point idiot. They have to make themselves no longer human in order to protect human kind.

>>53076628
Emperor was a faggot and a closet Grot as well.

>>53076628
this
same with the navigators - emps approved, so everyone else did as well

>>53076612
Old fluff had sororitas and the like actively distrusting them

>>53076612
Except none of those qualities are caused by mutations in their DNA, it's just biotech. Just like someone like Captain America isn't a mutant.

They are not mutants for a simple reason. Their abilities come from surgery. Not genetic tinkering.

Remember, Space Marines are implanted with genetically engineered organs transforming them from regular humans into Space Marines. Almost all Space Marines were born as regular humans.

That's not the same for navigators, astropaths and ogryns.

>>53076612
Wouldn't they be mutates rather than mutants? ie: changed by outside forces rather than born genetically different?

Abhumans are a thing anon.

By and large technically anyone with a mechanical upgrade of any variety is technically a mutant if your standards are high enough.

>>53076865
>Wouldn't they be mutates rather than mutants? ie: changed by outside forces rather than born genetically different?
That's how Marvel differentiates them.

You act like rampant hypocrisy isn't part of the setting, OP.

>>53076832
Isn't he called a "mutate" or something stupid like that. I think Spidey is too

>>53076612
But they aren't considered human, are they?

While humans go under the term "Homo Sapiens", Space Marines have their own. "Homo Astartes" or something weird like that, I seem to recall.

>>53076667
Emps didn't approve, he just knew the Imperium needed them to survive since they are essential for effective Warp travel. The Webway would have made them irrelevant and he would have been able to purge them like the freaks they are.

>>53077845
Well they certainly are homo.

>>53077655

/thread

>>53076612
as if anyone cares about other settings

>>53076612
>>53078141

Loving every laugh.

Nobody but hard autismos cares about WH40K because it's a meme setting autists took seriously.

>>53078016
Yes, honerable Battle Brother

>>53076612
Sage

>>53076612
They're only mutants if they're born that way and pass the traits on to their offspring dingus.

If they're different because of shit you cram into them after the fact, they're transhuman.
TL;DR: In Shadowrun, Space Marines would still have 3 essence left. So much for 'every' other setting.

>>53076835
>Not genetic tinkering.
>Gene seed

>>53076612
>What is anima?
It's fine to admit you know jack and shit about settings anon :^)

>>53081764
I would assume he meant pre-birth genetic tinkering, rather than the Space Marine method of genetic modification that is typically performed on adult human males

>>53076612
>Ha ha wow! There's hypocrisy in the imperium of man, I wouldn't know this because I read the 40k wiki for about 3 minutes and think I know everything about Warhammer XDDDDDD

Space Marines eat brains to absorb memes

>>53076612
They're all born 100% human though. And they're all male. Without a breeding population the "risk" of mutants is greatly diminished even before you consider the Marines' exalted history. Emps was careful to design them so they would not replace humanity.

>>53081378
>>53082020
What about the mutants that often feature in post-apocalyptic scenarios? Aren't those usually humans by birth that got fucked over by some sort of NBC weapon?

>>53082407
>men are treated as disposable shit in the Imperium
kek

>>53076612
However pictured is a marine from the Imperial fists chapter, who actually can't spit acid.

>>53082607
Confirmed for worst chapter

>>53082601
Everyone is treated that way senpai

>>53082607
>can't spit acid.

How can they even call themselves Astartes?

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>>53076612

In any other setting imperium would be considered villians and antagonists.
But this is not any other setting.
Welcome to 40k.

>>53082607

What if OP wanted to recieve this answer and was making fun of the anons here?
Or did he just choose the picture randomly and i am overthinking it.

No shit, man.

The whole fucking point is that the Imperium violates practically every law, tenant, and belief in the name of power, showing itself as a ruthless, despotic tyranny, every bit as evil as the things it fights and claims superiority over.

The Imperium is evil, man, and it will justify anything to itself in order to continue existing.

>>53082582
>What about the mutants that often feature in post-apocalyptic scenarios? Aren't those usually humans by birth that got fucked over by some sort of NBC weapon?
Those are technically not mutants; it will surprise you to learn that not all Hollywood screenwriters are accomplished geneticists.

>>53076806

Tbh that is kinda stupid. Sororitas would not even know about traitor primarchs except for horus to suspect marine chapters loyalty.

In the mind of the average citizen of the 40k world horus heresy happened when horus rebelled with his legion and gathered bunch of bad enough dudes to kick his father.

>>53082696
Filthy Xenos go home

>>53082696

>every law, tenant, and belief

You dont violate them when you are the one setting the rules.

They come from baseline humans, so they are acceptable. Humans really hate unstable mutations, not stable evolutionary offshoots.

That and the Emperor made them, so they are merely augmented humans. Just genetically rather than mechanically like the Adeptus Mechanicus for the most part.

Modification isn't mutation. Get it together.

>>53076832
This.

Bioengineering is not mutation.

>>53076612
But they're not mutated from the human standard.

Its like saying someone with cybernetics is no longer human.

>>53082696
>The Imperium is evil, man
You're right. Everyone's way better off being eaten by tyranids, beaten into mush by orks, disintegrated by the c'than, sucked straight up satan's pulsating asshole by chaos, or any of the many other delightful alternatives on offer.

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>>53076612
>>53082773

>>53083020
The two aren't mutually exclusive, retard.

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>>53083046

>humans have great daot era and get fucked when it collapses by robots and xenos

>humans then have godlike being drag them out of the age of strife to save them from being dicked over

>godlike being gets fucked over by chaos and xenos take advantage of humans and try to attack and end them again

>calls humans evil when they're dicks back and don't trust xenos and chaos

>>53083046
Ah yes, the ole 'every possible choice is evil' gambit. Ignoring how that's how it works in reality, too. And we don't call the least-evil options "least evil"; we call them "not evil". Even "good". Or we used to anyway before everyone went full moral relativist and started getting genuinely confused about whether raping children is actually worse than not raping them.

>>53083124
Mate, what the others do to you doesn't justify what you'll end doing. The fact that Xenos took advantage of mankind doesn't make the imperium any better for annihilating them en mass.

>>53083198

It does when those very aliens are trying to destroy humanity, and when chaos is attscking you from within and externally forcing you to be a militant society just to survive.

Or do you think the moral thing is to roll over and die because fighting back and defending yourself is evil?

>>53083124
>>53083155
Let me remind you of a bit of text that is present on the first page of every 40k book and codex ever printed. You may have missed it.

>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of His inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that He may never truly die.

>Yet even in His deathless state, the Emperor continues His eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in His name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst His soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever-vigilant Inquisition and the Tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse.
>To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

>the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable.

>>53083238

I wonder why it is so bloody and cruel. I don't suppose it has anything to do with everyone being hypervigilant because any time humanity tried to be nice it resulted in chaos and xenos pounding their ass into the ground and this rightfully made people become harsh due to not wanting to die.

Nah, I'm sure the Imperium just randomly did bad shit and the good ol' chaos boys and xenos dindu nuffin'. They were just living in peace before the big bad Imperium persecuted them unjustly.

>>53083236
I'm not saying "roll over and die", but there's a difference between retaliation and full blown intergalactic genocide.

>>53083275
Oh no, everyone's a cunt in 40K. No one's innocent, not even the oh-so-called goody goody doo Tau.

>>53083275
You can justify every single faction's actions that way, though.

After all, Chaos is just a reflection of the emotions and thoughts of the material realm. If everyone in 40k was a nice guy, then the chaos gods would be nice guys too.

Hell, the giant irony if the setting is that the Imperium creates it's own worst enemy. The very regime that you claim is vital to their success is the exact same one that forces so many toward chaos worship.

>>53083275
What part of "the ruthless evil regime survived while all the moderate/good ones were crushed by bots/aliens/demons" is hard to concieve?
A demon will kill you until you eat a dozen innocent newborns. Does it makes eating baby steak less despicable?
Who are you to assign value to justifications?

>the good ol' chaos boys and xenos dindu nuffin'. They were just living in peace before the big bad Imperium persecuted them unjustly.
Now you're just being stupid.

>>53083317

Genocide is the only solution when every other side wants to fight you to the death or keep you enslaved so they can suck off of your life force. The Imperium's actions are justified given their history and the circumstances. No other side wants peace, or their idea of peace requires humanity dead. Not like there's much of a choice. It's either destroy them or die. Not choosing the path where you die does not make you evil.

>>53076612
When are Marines considered human or even consider themselves human?

Ecclesiarchy has a very dubious relation with Marines, since they do consider them to be mutants, but at the same time they are the Emperor's Angels of Death...

>>53083470
And that justifies the way it treats it's own people?

The wanton waste, the pointless wars, the self centered leadership who will sacrifice billions for their own personal comfort?

The callous enforces who will sentence untold numbers of people to death or worse for the most minor of infractions?

It'd be one thing if the Imperium only reserved it's cruelty for it's enemies, but it treats it's own people just as bad, if not worse, then it does it's enemies.

>>53083471
Marines should be purged to fuck and replaced with Catachans and Nuns with Guns completly.

>>53083275
Yeah because sterilisation camps and dropping exterminatusing billions as soon as one faggot joins chaos = good guys who make tough decisions !

Bullshit, the Imperium of Man is a totalitarian regime as fascistic as the Third Reich with the USSR's bureaucratic crap, all topped off with retard levels of zealotry.

>>53083397

That is my point. The reason the Imperium is "evil" at all is to protect humanity. Because everyone else is out to get them. The Imperium didn't randomly decide to slaughter xenos and chaos for no reason. It was the only choice to survive. When your enemies are attacking you on every front, refuse to work together, manipulate you when you try, attacking you from within, and generally do not want peace but want you dead or under their control, how is it wrong or unjustified to be harsh or untrusting? It is the only reasonable choice. Is it cruel and bloody? Yes, but that is because they are left with no choice if they want to survive. Necessity made the Imperium what it is, not some random desire to dick everyone else over.

And that makes them justified.

>>53083556
Fuck most xenos and chaos, obviously, but why treat your people like shit ? Why kill the guardsmen who defended a planet just because they saw chaos for half a second ? Why brainwash, reprogram and constantly survey your own citizens while denying them basic rights ? Why keep inhabitants on feral and feudal worlds in total squalor (same goes for hive worlds) ? Why be such zealous assholes against mutants and theoretical heretics ? Why start wars with teh Tau and other peacefull races, and waste ressources ?

This isn't what the emperor died for.

Space Marines aren't mutants, they're weaponized humans.

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>>53076806
>>53083031
>>53083471
>The Emperor created the Space Marines from his own flesh and blood
>they are literally his grandsons
>they understand and respect his vision and fight to preserve it

>a bunch of cucks show up when he's gone and start doing the opposite of everything he stood for
>they fucking dare actually even think ill of The Emperor's own flesh and blood

Can't wait for Bobby to purge all of those Eclesiarcial faggots and cucks
>i worship the Emperor
>but his literal grandsons and also the greatest protectors of humanity are abominations
Can't. Fucking. Wait.

>>53083556
And the Eldar, who only act the way they do because of their own past experiences?

And the Orks, who only act the way they do because they were designed that way?

And Chaos, who only acts that way because the emotions of living people shape them?

And the Dark Eldar, who's obsession with pain and death stem from their desire to save their souls from a chaos god?

You can justify every single race's actions by their situation, it doesn't make any of them any less evil.

>>53083515

Yes. Or did you forget that because of how chaos is, anyone who deviates is a possible enemy as well as anyone who consorts with aliens? To be tolerant is to possibly invite any number of things that can fuck people over. You can't afford to be tolerant when any time someone deviates an alien takes over planets or a cult pops up that drags the planet into the literal fucking hell that is the warp because it was a chaos trick.

What do you expect them to do? Play nice and hope it just works out like it hasn't for over 10,000 years and since the age of strife?

>>53083616
Orks aren't even evil

>>53083547
That's because a SINGLE unchecked cultist can result in a fucking daemon world, which is a HUGE deal.

>>53083636
Cleanse the fuckers on the ground, there are tons of other responses that we see all the time. Send in the Ordo Hereticus. Rally the other inhabitants agains them. Send in the assassins. Maybe if people weren't living in their own filth, on the verge of starvation they wouldn't join the death cults ?

Anything could work instead of blowing to shit billions of working men and women, potential soldiers and precious industry. I thought the Imperium was running out of ressources ? If so , then why be this retarded with heresy ?

>>53083547

Makes sense to exterminatus a world when one world falling to chaos can mean daemons ripping through the fabric of reality and start a huge cascade of worlds falling to chaos.

You act like it is being done in a normal world where the warp doesn't exist and daemons and chaos forces can't crack reality and storm across the stars in an orgy of bloodshed and destruction.

In a world where that shit does exist, yes, it would be moral to blow away one world in order to prevent that one world from becoming 100 or 1,000. Or should they leave it alone for daemons to start sweeping across every world they can reach?

>>53083631
> Race that lives to wage permanent warfare
> Slaughters and annihilates trillions
> Not evil because ?

>>53083676
I think you've been spending too much time on 1d4chan, friendo. Exterminatus is always the final option on an unsalvageable world. Inquisitors exist to conduct investigations and root out heresy quickly to stamp it out quickly, not push buttons of genocide.
>Maybe if people weren't living in their own filth, on the verge of starvation
Maybe is The Imperium had a fucking break from all the nightmare factions attacking it 24/7, it could focus on life improvement and not just naked survival.

>>53083556
Yes, and justified evil is still evil. Which is the point initially made.

>combining 40k faction e-peen with alignment discussion
We must be masochists at this point.

>>53083681
Daemons have a lot of trouble maintaining their presence in real space and depend on cultists and converted guardsmen to fight their battles. If only we had an elite force of superhuman soldiers that could fight these battles with ease.

>>53083740
>Space Marines can be everywhere all the time

>>53083732
I agree, one of the reasons it's in such a state is because of the constant warfare going on. At the same time, it's also because it's a bloated bureaucratic mess rife with corruption and retards.

>>53083740
There's like a 1000 grey knights at best.

>>53083780
Which, again, is the consequence of all the warfare. It's easy for assholes to capitalize when the guys in charge spend their whole existence looking at battle reports and receiving distress calls.

>>53083733

It isn't evil. They aren't doing any of this shit you mention for no reason. The actions they are doing, even to their own people due to chaos shit or simply not having the resources and time to raise the quality of life because they are at war constantly, and the people they are killing are people who want them dead. There are dicks in the Imperium, but it isn't unjustified. It is the necessity that forces their hand. If tomorrow every chaos faction and xeno stopped their shit the Imperium would hardly be as bad as it is. But until they do stop, there is little choice but to keep fighting and being harsh in order to live for yet another day. That or die.

>>53076612
more human than you desu

>>53083839
>the end justifies the means
It is better to die good then live by necessary evils. If you stoop to their level you're swimming in the same shit, regardless of who started it.

>>53083871
I'm not human I'm a subhuman american mutt I wish I wasn't so fat and stupid but Jews pretty much invented me to serve their interests and fight their wars I also mutilated my dick to be more like them.

>>53083918

So, then you are, in fact, saying to take the high road and that this high road is to roll over and die. You're a fucking retarded faggot if that is your solution to being attacked. Talk about being a spineless coward... Would you let a murderer kill you as well or rape your wife because causing harm is evil and stooping to their level?

>>53083935
When /pol/ and depression collide

>>53083952
It's not about giving up on a fight. I think he meant that there's a point where just giving up on life is better than comitting the atrocities necessary to preserve said life. I mean would you really be willing to skullfuck a kindergarten class to avoid dying ?

>>53083935
Based.

I'm nearly the same as you. They got us good.

>>53076612

I always wanted to write a fan fiction about a bunch of space marines being sent in to liberate a city under siege from a demonic /mutant/ Tyranid force and the citizens , having never seen marines in the flesh , mistaking them for more demons/mutants / alien horrors and attacking them/fleeing in horror etc.

But I'm lazy.

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>>53083918
>It is better to die good then live by necessary evils.
Right. So the "good" thing for people to do... is to refuse to do 'inherently evil' things to protect themselves from evil, thus letting the entire universe become ruled by evil as a consequence of letting it destroy all that is good. Yeah, that makes sense. You've opened my eyes, anon. You should write a book about moral philosophy.

>>53083952
>dying with integrity is somehow harder then caving in to your animal instinct of self-preservation
You're the coward here, anon. You're so terrified of death that you fail to realize that living can be worse.

And, obviously, there's no reason to "roll over and die". At the very least you can go down swinging instead of taking the morally bankrupt route to base survival. Not living, by any means, just surviving.

>>53084010
how would skullfucking a kindergarden class keep anyone from dying? are you standing over them with a gun and a camera?

>>53076645
Ork-poster detected. Get off my board greenskin

>>53084081
If the cost of living in this universe is to make it Hell, then why fear death?

>>53084106
Yeah, sorry bro, but acts of murder and violence are inherently evil. So you can't "go down swinging" without doing evil and thus having failed to live up to the ideals that you presumably go down swinging for.

>>53084118
Special case of dickcancer that could only be cured by loli spit ?

>>53084118
Well considering we're talking about the context of 40k here, it's because the Slaaneshi cult that took over your Hive block is doing a recruitment drive. You can murderfuck some kinds to get in the club, or you can get murderfucked.

>>53084139
You don't have to "make it hell". You just have to recognize that you can't live in it as if it were heaven.

>>53084180
Well... if those kids are getting murderfucked anyway, may as well be me that gets to live. At least then I would possibly be put into a position to let someone who could stop this know what's going on; no doubt dying in the process, corrupted as I'd be. Looking at it that way, murderfucking those lolis is the HEROIC thing to do, myes.

>>53084142
Violence isn't inherently evil. All life propagates and survives by violence. Even the trees are engaged in a constant slow strangling match with eachother. If all violence is evil then existence itself must be evil in every form, and that just makes the word "evil" meaningless.

Violence in defense of one's self and others is morally neutral at the worst.

>>53084183
The Imperium is inarguably hellish. If that's the necessity of existence, then death is preferable.

>>53084283
Not him, but feel free to commit suicide and get eaten by the chaos gods.

>>53084010
Shit metaphor desu.

>>53084243
Or perhaps that Evil has permeated the universe so completely that even the forces of nature feel the taint of death, and a universe of goodness, free of death, is now so alien as to be unimaginable.

A universe where only the intervention of an external, incredibly powerful being could offer it any hope of redemption.

Praise Jesus

>>53084010

That's a bad metaphor since chaos, orks, necrons, and all the rest aren't anything like an innocent room full of kids. It'd be more like if you're in a room full of maniacs and people out to kill you. In which case I'd skullfuck anyone I could rather than sit there and die.

>>53084345
> Praise Jesus
Fucking heretic

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>>53084412
>Praising my glorious Father is heresy
You gonna get drank.

>>53077897
God, I know, right? Psykers are such mutant freaks. None should be allowed to live at all, especially the powerful ones.

>>53076806
thats cause sororitas are brainwashed child soldiers that serve the church, which the astartes hate, ergo they have a shaky relationship
>>53082773
>the largest civil war in human history that tore the imperium asunder and involved billions of humans fighting along side the involved chapters
>no one would have heard of this

>>53083031
its funny because the Templars actually do think the emps is a god, yet they hate the ecclesiarchy more than anyone.

>>53076612

>not realizing this is part of the widespread hypocrisy in the Imperial dogma
>not realizing that this is purposeful irony in the background to highlight how backwards the Imperium is

God, /tg/ keeps getting dumber.

>>53086333
>God, /tg/ keeps getting dumber.
/tg/ was never smart to begin with

>>53086358

That's fair.

>>53076612
>purposefully re-engineered with genetics/cybernetics

>mutant

>wut?

Transhuman yes. Mutant, no.

>>53078016
Space Marines are brainwashed cucks. They're tools of the imperium.

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>>53086427
>t. assblasted xeno/chaos fucboi

>>53076612
Mutants have a VERY specific meaning in warhammer. It specifically refers to someone who's body/mind has been fucked by chaos

>>53076612
That's pretty much the irony of it, yeah. I'm pretty sure there was even a bit about how the Primarchs contemplated what would become of them should the Imperium ever claw it's way out of the dark and into another golden age.


>may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again

>>53086607
> should the Imperium ever claw it's way out of the dark and into another golden age.

Im an IGfag through and through, but arent Tyranids a pretty much endless threat in the lore? (even moreso than shit like chaos/orks) I seem to remember some older fluff implying that the hive fleets that are present in our galaxy are just the tip of the iceberg. The only thing stopping them from utterly assraping the entire world via sheer volume is the fact that bugs cannot into FTL/warp travel.

>>53087437
Same is true for orks. Soon as you leave the galaxy in any direction other than presumably towards the tyranids it's just orks forever, or at least until you encounter some other imperium/tyranid-level power that has managed to keep them at bay. imperium might be a big fish, but only in the small pond of the galaxy it's in.

actually, now that I think about it... how does the rest of the universe look? shouldn't the old ones and their various associates, like the eldar, orks, necrons, etc., all be/have been universe-level forces? which means that chaos should also be a universe-level force. which means... everything is actually way worse than it seems just from the galaxy-focus

>>53084243
>Violence isn't inherently evil. All life propagates and survives by violence. Even the trees are engaged in a constant slow strangling match with eachother. If all violence is evil then existence itself must be evil in every form, and that just makes the word "evil" meaningless.
Yeah, welcome to the conclusion of the argument. That is, if you rescind all acts defined as inherently evil by the kind of dumbass who'd call the imperium evil for doing what it needs to in order to survive then you literally cannot survive. Or in other words, everything that exists is evil. Which makes the term completely meaningless.

>>53084283
Eh, even real life is generally worse than life as depicted in the imperium. The worst depictions are rarely as horrible as the shit you can read about from just a hundred years ago. It's done on a bigger scale, sure, but on a personal one you'd definitely rather want to, for example, be serving on the front lines in an IG unit than you'd want to be serving on the front lines during the start of WW1, which was so horrible that it reliably drove those exposed to it uselessly insane within just a few months, until the general staff started realizing that they needed to rotate their troops. Y'know, the IG is inspired by IRL armies that it isn't anywhere near as horrible as. Soviet officers would literally march their soldiers straight into the sea to their pointless deaths rather than tell them to stop if they had been ordered to do so by mistake, because they were too afraid to question even such obviously absurd orders. And the soldiers would do it. IG commissars ain't got shit on soviet ones. Imperium is awful, but it isn't anywhere near IRL-levels of awful. Yet people aren't all killing themselves. At least as far as I know.

>>53084142
>but acts of murder and violence are inherently evil.
Our vehicles run on controlled explosions. We burn the wicks of candles for light and we set campfires for warmth. Fire is pretty much pure destruction. Is fire evil? Is a lightning strike evil?

My dog tears the fuck out of the stuffed toys we give her. Is my dog evil? Not Princess! She's so full of love!

>The answer is no, I just wanted to point out how retarded moral absolutists sound.

>>53086358
It's autists that don't know the setting is satire/intentionally ass backwards

>>53076612
they would pass a "i am a human" test far better than most abhumans who are tolerated by the imperium